Prabhupāda: "Oh, you pray to your church, pray, 'O God, give us our daily bread,' So have you got your bread?" "No, sir." "All right. Pray to us." They have taken a truck full of bread and... "Take bread. Take bread. As much as you like." "So whom do you like?" Oh, they will naturally say, "I like you." (laughter) Because they are not intelligent enough to answer, "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread, from your father's house?" (Laughter) Can you manufacture the bread in the factory, rascal? It is God's bread. But they have no intelligence. They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal.
Proprietor (Conversations 1969 - 1974)
Expressions researched:
"proprietor"
|"proprietor's"
|"proprietors"
|"proprietorship"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is the representative of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you work in some office, so there is one head man, representative of the proprietor of the company. You have to work under him. If you satisfy that person who is in charge of that department, that means you are satisfying the proprietor of the company. Is it clear? And he can give you direction how to work nicely because he's experienced. The boss. So spiritual master is external manifestation of God. God is within and without. Within, He is Supersoul. He will give you... If you are sincere, He will give you good counsel, "You do like this." You'll get dictation from within. That requires advancement of spiritual life. Then you get from within dictation. So God is helping from within and without. Within, as Paramātmā, and without as spiritual master. Both ways. As soon as you are sincere, then God will send you to somebody who is His bona fide spiritual representative. And if you take help from him, and help within and without... Just like a person going, or a boy going to a school, he's getting training in the school as well as home, both sides. Then his chance is very good. So we have to take both wise: from inside, from outside.
Prabhupāda: "Oh, this is mine. This is mine. Where is another box? Why it is not coming?" And possessing in mind. If I leave this body, either the box here or in the Chicago or anywhere else, what is the difference? There is no difference. But because I am possessing in the mind, "Oh, that box is mine," so I am asking, "Whether it is Chicago or it is here, it is there? Why it is not coming?" So possession in the mind. Actually you don't possess. Mānasa deha geha. So by that supposingly possessing, we have got our mind, we have got our body, then expansion of body, wife, children, family, society, country. In this way we possess so many things. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora: "Now whatever I possess, either in the mind or in the family or in the society or in the body—whatever I have got, I surrender unto You, my dear Kṛṣṇa." Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu..., arpilun tuā pade nanda kiśora: "Nanda-kiśora, O the son of Nanda, I give unto You." Marobi rakhobi, yo icchā tohāra: "Now whatever You like, You can do, either you kill me or You protect me, as You like. You are the proprietor.
Satyabhāmā: There were no brāhmaṇas, though. (laughs)
Śyāma: There were bishops.
Kīrtanānanda: Not exactly brāhmaṇas. They were proprietors of large tracts of land, and they were responsible for giving protection to a certain number of people under them.
Prabhupāda: Aristocrats. The same system the Britishers introduced in India also. They were called zamindari. (break) That is sannyāsī's business.
Hayagrīva: I see somebody's going to get stuck with a lot of traveling tickets.
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa will provide. That doesn't matter. You see?
Hayagrīva: So I want to make certain that this is your...
Prabhupāda: Sometimes I think that "I came here with no money, and now I am spending so much money in traveling." (laughter) Aeroplanes. As soon as I get on aeroplane, immediately two hundred dollars. And not only I am, my assistant also. So Kṛṣṇa will provide. That doesn't matter.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja ordered me that "You go and preach this cult amongst the English speaking public and specially in the western countries." So first of all I thought of London, where is London, but I had no money. So I got the opportunity for going U.S.A. free on the, on a trade ship by the Scindia Steam Navigation. They gave me their first-class cabinet, the proprietor's cabinet. I was well carried. But first of all I went free on a steamship. I had no money, what to speak of aeroplane. So... What was your question?
Guest (1): My question was that how you selected America to be your...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I got the opportunity to go to America because their ship goes to New York. So I accepted, "All right, we can see, either go to London or New York." New York is better place than London.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Modern sociology is targeting the state or the people as the owner of a certain state, but our Vedic conception is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ: (ISO 1) "Everything is owned by Īśa, the Supreme Controller." Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "What is given by Him, allotted to you, you enjoy that." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam: "But we not encroach upon others' property." This is Īśopaniṣad, Vedas. And the same idea is explained in different Purāṇas. So the Vedas can give you... The other day I was reading in the, that paper, Moscow News, there was a congress, Communist congress, and the president declared that "We are ready to get others' experience to improve." So I think the Vedic concept of socialism or communism will much improve the idea of communism. Just like we are thinking in terms of human beings, the commu..., socialistic state, that "Nobody should starve. Everyone must have his food." And in the Vedic conception of gṛhastha, householder, it is recommended there that a householder shall see that even a lizard living in the room or even a snake living in that house should not starve. They should be also given food. And what to speak of others? The gṛhastha, before taking his lunch, he is recommended to stand on the road and declare that "If anybody is still hungry, please come. Food is ready." Then, if there is no response, then the proprietor of the household life, he takes his lunch.
Prabhupāda: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.
Journalist (1): Yes. I know you define that as civilization. It's just, I was trying to suggest that some societies, and indeed, some individual personalities, are avaricious seemingly by nature. How do you... Well, graft and greed and...
Journalist (1): One last question. Is there a single, simple stitch (?) that you could give to people who don't know anything about Kṛṣṇa consciousness to help them to understand it. Is there one simple, single...
Prabhupāda: Very simple. God is the proprietor. God is the enjoyer. If God is proprietor, He must be enjoyer. And God is the supreme friend.
Journalist (1): Thank you very much. How long're you going to be...?
Prabhupāda: If you simply understand these three things. This is fact.
Journalist (1): God is the proprietor.
Prabhupāda: God is the proprietor. God is the enjoyer.
Journalist (1): Enjoyer.
Journalist (1): Thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: So these three things, if you try to understand that God is the proprietor, God is the supreme friend and God is the supreme enjoyer, then all problems solved.
Journalist (1): Thank you.
Journalist (2): May I come in another queue for BBC Radio 4, just to tell me in fact what is the purpose of your visit to London?
Prabhupāda: To teach you these things, as we were just talking with your friend, that God is proprietor, God is friend of everyone and God is the supreme enjoyer.
Prabhupāda: We are simply presenting the fact that everything belongs to God. God is the supreme friend and God is the maintainer of everyone, everything, and He is the supreme enjoyer. These three things, if we understand, then the whole problem is solved. Now, I say that God is the proprietor. Now you refute. Those who will not accept, that "God is not proprietor, I am proprietor," this requires discussion. How you become proprietor? Bhagavad-gītā says, God says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). I am not manufacturing this. It is stated in the śāstra. God is the supreme enjoyer. He is the proprietor. He should be enjoyer. Just like here, if I am the proprietor of a factory, so the profit should come to me, similarly, if God is the proprietor of everything then we cannot enjoy anything without the sanction of God. We therefore eat prasādam. We know that the fruit, flowers, or grains, or milk, whatever we are offering to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa has given us.
Prabhupāda: The intelligence is also given by God. So by God-given intelligence, by God-given ingredients, you are preparing something, and you are claiming that "It is mine." Why? Suppose if I give somebody intelligence, "You make this table like this," I give ingredients, I give him money, then after the table is manufactured, if the carpenter says, "It is mine," is that proper ? I have given you money, I have given you the wood, I have given you the intelligence, I have maintained you. How it belongs to you? So this is going on. Everything God's, and we are claiming "Mine." Ahaṁ mameti, janasya moho 'yam (SB 5.5.8). This is called illusion. I am not the proprietor, but I am thinking I am... This is called illusion. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to remove this illusion, to accept the real fact. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is nothing that is (indistinct) manufactured artificially. To come to your real position. Just like a madman has got in some consciousness. He's thinking so many crazy ways. That sort of consciousness will not help us. If we actually come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is our perfection. (break) God is the proprietor, God is the enjoyer, and God is the maintainer. Three things.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Similarly, the central stomach of the whole creation is God, or Kṛṣṇa. He's the enjoyer and He's the friend. He's maintaining everyone. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Therefore He's friend of everyone. And everywhere... He is maintaining means everywhere He's the proprietor. Just like a king can maintain the whole country, citizens, because he's the proprietor. Without being proprietor, how he can become everyone's friend? So these things have to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, and Kṛṣṇa is friend. If you know these three things, then your knowledge is full. You do not require to understand anything more. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa by these three formulas, then your knowledge is complete. You don't require any more knowledge. But people will not agree. "Why Kṛṣṇa shall be proprietor? Hitler shall be proprietor. Yayha Khan should be proprietor. (laughter) Nixon shall be proprietor." That is going on. Therefore you are in trouble. But if you understand these three things only, then your knowledge is finished. But he'll not accept, he'll put forward so many impediments for understanding these three things.
Prabhupāda: We shall put forward so many false proprietor, false friends, false enjoyer, and they will fight one another. This is the situation of the world. If this education is given and people takes this knowledge, there is peace, śāntim ṛcchati. Immediately there is peace. This is knowledge. And if anyone follows this principle, he's honest. He does not claim "It is mine." He everything knows it is Kṛṣṇa's, so therefore everything should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is honesty. If this pencil belongs to me the etiquette is... Just like my students sometimes do: "Can I use this pencil?" "Yes." This is etiquette, I say, "Yes, you can." Similarly, if I know that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, without His permission I'll not use. That is honesty. And that is knowledge. And one does not know, he's ignorant, he's foolish, and foolish man commits all criminality. All criminals, they're foolish men. Out of ignorance one commits lawbreaking. So ignorance is not bliss, but it is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. That is the difficulty, our. The whole world is enjoying ignorance, and when we say about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they do not very much appreciate. If I say, "Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor, you are not proprietor," he'll not be very much satisfied. (laughs) Just see, ignorance is bliss.
Prabhupāda: So it is my foolishness to say the real truth. Therefore this is, it is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss. So we are taking the risk to offend people because they'll think we are fools. If I say, "Birla, Mr. Birla, you are not proprietor, Kṛṣṇa is proprietor. So whatever money you have got spend for Kṛṣṇa," he'll be angry. Mūrkha upadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you instruct a rascal, he'll be angry. Therefore we go as beggar. "My dear Mr. Birla, you are very rich man. I am sannyāsī beggar. So I want to construct a temple if you spare some money." So he'll be, "Oh, here is a beggar, give him some money." (laughter) But if I say "Mr. Birla, you have got millions of dollars at your disposal. That is Kṛṣṇa's money. Give it to me. I am Kṛṣṇa's servant." Oh, he will... (laughter) He'll not be very satisfied. Rather, if I go as a beggar, he would give something, and if I tell him the truth, he'll not give me a farthing. Therefore we take this beggar's dress. We are not beggar. We cheat him as beggar. We are not beggar. We are Kṛṣṇa's servant, we are not beggar. We don't want anything from anyone. Because we know Kṛṣṇa will provide everything.
Prabhupāda: Not half God.
Bob: Half good, good.
Prabhupāda: Not good. If he does not know this principle, that God is the proprietor... Others' thing, what do you mean by others' thing?
Bob: Like, people I'm thinking of, they're poor people who need money and food, but...
Prabhupāda: Everyone needs money. Everyone needs. Who is not poor? Anyone find out. So many gentlemen sitting here. Who is not in need of food and money? You are also in need of money. So what do you distinguish poor and rich? Everyone needs. If that is your definition, if one needs money and food, everyone needs money and food. So everyone is poor.
Bob: Is he less of a thief?
Prabhupāda: You may not know that I am the proprietor of this wrapper, but if you take it away, are you not steal?
Bob: But, maybe it isn't... If I know it is yours and I take it I'm a worse thief than if I do not know whose it is and I just think it may be nobody's and I take it.
Prabhupāda: That is also stealing. Because it must belong to somebody.
Bob: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: How do you take it without his permission? You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you must know, "It must belong to somebody." That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things are lying, government property. You see? For repairing roads or electrical, so many things, valuable things are lying down. But a man may think that it is "Fortunately, it is lying there; so I take it." Is it not stealing?
Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man. Is that correct? What do you think, Girirāja?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Governing all human action. God knows how many necessities you can create. And for all of them the supply is there. But you do not know, you take it as chance it has come. It is your foolishness that whatever necessities may be... God knows that so many necessities can be. It may be millions types. And for all of them there is immediately supply. So this rascal does not know that it is already planned. (break) The proprietor is living there. The servants are living there. The cats and dogs are also living there. The trees and plants are also living there, and insects and microbes and snakes and rats. So many living entities in the same building. Why they are different? What is the answer? They have been given the same chance of living in the same house, born in the same house. As the proprietor's son is born in the same house, these also, they are also taking birth the same place. Why they are denied the same advantage? And if they are denied, who has denied it? What is the answer to this question? They are all living entities.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) The, our present conditional life is rebellious. We have rebelled against the authority of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord. It is very simple thing. Just like a person, a citizen, if he becomes rebellious, then he is arrested and put into custody, and his life becomes conditioned, he has no freedom. Similarly, as soon aw we are rebellious to the authority of the Supreme Lord, we are captured by māyā—that is also an energy of Kṛṣṇa—and we become conditioned. So this is our position. So in this conditional life we can never be happy, that's a fact. So we have to transcend this conditional life and again become engaged in our constitutional position. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now our consciousness is polluted. We are thinking different way. Just like a madman thinks that..., sometimes he says, "I am the king." He stands sometimes in the midst of the road: "Stop, I order you!" Does he not? Madman. (laughs) Nobody cares for him, but he says, thinks like that. Similarly, under the spell of this illusory energy, we are thinking differently. Somebody, I am thinking "I am Indian," you are thinking "Englishman," he is thinking "American." I am thinking "I am proprietor of this," I am thinking "I am the master of this." So many ways.
Devotee: Yeah. We're not wandering from village to village anymore. We're settled.
Prabhupāda: No. Even we wander from village to village, people are being impressed that we are doing something good. Actually it is so. I tell you it is so. One who cannot understand it, he is a fool. Actually we are doing the best work, God consciousness. And actually it is a fact: simply for want of God consciousness they are suffering, that's all. There is no other reason. The only reason is this. Just like this morning I said, "God is the proprietor. Why you are claiming proprietor? You may be manager, not proprietor." Actually that is our position. Just like I am head of this institution, but I am not dealing as proprietor. I am dealing as manager, head. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: And all my assistants, they are also working in that capacity. If I would have been proprietor, then they would not have been interested.
Devotee: Hm.
Prabhupāda: I would have collected the money and used for my sense gratification. Then nobody would help me.
Devotee: I think the English milk is better than American milk, isn't it?
Prabhupāda: I think so. It is from Holland.
Devotee: Oh. There's some famous islands between England and Holland called the Jersey Islands. There's special milk that comes from Jersey. Jersey milk is best.
Prabhupāda: God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible. But God can say "I am the richest person in the whole creation." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He says, "I am the proprietor of everything." Just like in America, before the Europeans migrated to America, the land was there. It belonged to somebody. Now you are claiming you are proprietor. Say after five hundred years or something somebody may come. The land is there, we come here for the time being and claim "It is my property." But actually who is the proprietor? Actually God is the proprietor. Therefore anything produced out of the land, that is also property of God. Just like if you have got a gold mine in your country. So I am not.... India will not go to claim that "It is my property." It is your property, because it is produced with your land. So if the whole land, whole sky, whole air, whole light, everything belongs to God, then where is your proprietorship? It is stated, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ mano eva (BG 7.4). Now, nobody can say "The sky is my property," but there must be some proprietor of the sky. What do you think? If everything has got a proprietor, everything is made of these five elements—sky, water, air, earth....
Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find this verse. (Aside:) Find out. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. This is the śānti, prosperity. They are... Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme Enjoyer. I am the sole proprietor of everything." Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Sarva-loka, not only of this planet, but other planets also. Loka. Loka means planet, sarva-lokam. So bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. "I am the best, I mean to say, well-wisher friend of everyone." Jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati. If one understands these three things only, that God is the Supreme Enjoyer. We are not enjoyer. But God is Enjoyer. That God is the Proprietor of everything. Not we are proprietor. We are subordinate. In the Vedas also, it is stated, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).
Prabhupāda: Unless we understand this, there cannot be any peace. That is the Vedic version. Anyone who understands this, he gets peace. Otherwise there's no possibility of peace. If I think that I am the proprietor, if I think that I am the enjoyer, or, in other words, I am God, then you'll never get peace. That is not possible. That is a false. If one of the children thinks that I am the independent, then naturally father will say, "All right, if you're independent, do your own business." This is an example. So if you want peace then, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, you have to learn these three things. It is not very difficult. To accept God as the Supreme Enjoyer, and God as the sole proprietor of everything, and He's the best friend of everyone. Then you have peace. Anyone can appreciate this. Anyone can adopt this principle and he'll be in peace. And so long one will falsely think that "I am God. I am enjoyer, I am this, I am that." Then he'll suffer. False notion will never make him happy. He must come to the true, factual idea. Now you can examine that Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the Supreme Enjoyer." Now let us understand this one fact, how Kṛṣṇa's the enjoyer. Now suppose here is some banana fruits.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our business is, we should offer this banana to God. "So it is Your creation, it is Your thing. First of all You taste it, then we take it." Then you become in peace. And if you falsely think that "I have created this banana tree. I have worked so hard. Now the fruit is there. Now I am the enjoyer." Then you are mistaken. Then next statement is, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka maheś... (BG 5.29), "I am the proprietor of everything in the world." Now, beginning of this world, Bhūmi, land, this land, they're claiming this land Indonesian, this land American, this land Indian. But has the Indonesians or the Africans or the Indians created this land? Who has created this land?
Guest (2): God.
Devotee: "The conditioned souls in the clutches of the illusory energy are all anxious to attain peace in the material world. They do not know the formula for peace which is explained in this part of the Bhagavad-gītā. The greatest peace formula is simply this. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the beneficiary in all human activities. Men should offer everything to the transcendental service of the Lord because He is the proprietor of all planets and the demigods thereon. No one is greater than He. He is greater than the greatest of the demigods, Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā. In the Vedas the Supreme Lord is described as param īśvarānāṁ paramaṁ maheśvaram. Under the spell of illusion, living entities are trying to be lords of all they survey. But actually they are dominated by the material energy of the Lord. The Lord is the master of material nature and the conditioned souls are under the stringent rules of material nature."
Prabhupāda: That is the defect. Lord is the master of material nature, and we are conditioned by the material nature and still we are claiming, "I am God." Then?
Prabhupāda: Yes. In my body, there are millions of living entities. In my intestines, there are so many worms. If they, if they become stronger, then whatever you eat, they eat it. You don't take any benefit out of it. Therefore those who are full with these hookworms, they eat very much, but they do not grow. They become lean and thin. But they are very much hungry because these living entities are eating, and he's feeling hungry. And he's eating, but he cannot take any benefit out of it. He's lean and thin. So already there are thousands and millions of living entities in my body. But they are individual, I am individual. I may be proprietor of this garden, but there are many millions of living entities living in this garden. Similarly I may be proprietor of this body, but many millions of living entities are living in my body. I know that. Otherwise, how hookworms coming out of my intestines? So you cannot say that the chemical is lacking. Chemical is not lacking.
Prabhupāda: So how they are thinking? He does not know, what is the use of thinking rascally? One can think properly if he knows things. If he does not know, then what is the use of thinking? The madman also thinks. What is the use of such thinking? Now our thinking begins from the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). As the body's changing from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, similarly the proprietor of the body will change this body. At the last moment. Death means changing of the body. This is the... Now we can think. When there is proper subject matter, then you can think, how it is, how the changes. You have no proper subject matter, nobody is to guide you. What is the value of your thinking? Like dogs and cats? You do not know how to think. That is possible. How to think, that is possible in human life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Idle brain is a devil's workshop. If they're not directed, then think like devil. We are thinking rightly because we are taking direction from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Therefore our thinking has meaning. And what is the value of their thinking? It has no value. Now we are thinking... Just like, take the first instruction, that within this body there is the proprietor of the body. You can go on thinking: "Then am I this body?" So you can think on your finger. "I am this finger?" The answer from the within will come: "No, you are not finger. It is your finger. It is your finger. You are not finger." If I am finger, then if I cut my finger, why shall I not die? If I am finger? Therefore it is my finger. Just like I'll never think that I am this stick. It is my stick. That is thinking. That is thinking. If I wrongly think that I am this body, then your whole thinking process is wrong and they are thinking like that, that we are this body.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot enjoy anything. You have to accept everything as prasādam. First of all you take sanction from the proprietor. Then you he will give... That is your business. Just like if I want to use this land, I have to take permission from the government, that "I want this land. Give me permission." So when government gives you permission you can use. Otherwise you will be criminal. You cannot say, "Oh, there are so much land, let me encircle it with my fence and I live there." No. Immediately criminal. You cannot do anything as you like with this ocean. Can you do? No you have to take permission from the government. Just like the fishing boats, they have got government permission. Otherwise they cannot. Therefore in the Īśopaniṣad it is said, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). Tena tyaktena. "When it is sanctioned, when it is given to you, then you enjoy." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. "Do not touch anyone's property." This is Vedic injunction. So if everything belongs to God, how you can touch it without His permission?
Prabhupāda: So there is overpopulation in India, in China and other places, and there is problem. They are trying to occupy more land but you will not allow. Therefore war, there is war. So we create problems. Otherwise God has supplied us enough. You can use it; as much as you like you can use what you have... They are creating trouble and the scientists giving them, "Yes, I am giving you this chemical composition. You drop on the enemies' camp." This is scientific research, to impel the rascals. (laughter) The rascals, rogues, they are trying to usurp other's property, and the scientists helping them. That's all. If you help one murderer, if you help one thief, then you also become criminal. Is it not? So they are helping one another, all these thieves and rogues. Therefore there is so much trouble in the world. They are all criminals. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). One who does not recognize the proprietorship of the Lord, he is a thief. Find out, take statistics how many people recognizes God. Take statistic.
Prabhupāda: Yes, energy. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala grahāṇām. Sun is working under the order of... Just like if you don't see the managing director or the proprietor of a firm, the immediate boss who is controlling you, you have to obey. In the office or in the factory. Similarly, you cannot see directly God, but God's agent is working. Why don't you obey? God's agent is working? How it is working? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ, exactly in time by the order of Kṛṣṇa, rising exactly in the time, without any deviation even by 1/10,000th part of a second, astrological calculation. Is it not? So how it is working? Under whose order it is working? Śāstra says, "By the order of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya ājñayā. "Under whose order he is working," govindam ādi-puruṣam, "I worship that Govinda." The śāstra is giving you information, that he is working under, he must be working under... Otherwise why it is so accurate, so punctual, unless there is some direction? Unless there is order of God, why this big ocean is so obedient, it is not coming here? Why don't you study like this? Where is the difficulty?
Prabhupāda: Yes. So everything is working under direction. Why do the rascals say like that? The aeroplane is a big machine. It is flying, but under the direction of a small spiritual spark, the driver, pilot. How you can deny? So as the small spiritual spark can direct a so-called gigantic plane, similarly, the big spiritual spark is directing this whole cosmic manifest... What is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Without that spiritual spark, that airplane can be operated." You cannot say. That is not possible. You prove that "Without that spiritual small spark, this big 747 aeroplane will..." You cannot prove that. Where is your proof? You have to put that small spiritual spark. First of all the pilot body. Now, within that body, Kṛṣṇa says, asmin dehe, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ, tathā dehāntaram (BG 2.13). There is dehinaḥ. There is a proprietor of this body. So that proprietor is 1/10,000th part of the tip of the hair, very, very, small, atomic. On account of that atomic spiritual energy, there is working. This is bare fact. That small atomic spiritual energy is within this body, and therefore the body is working, and therefore the plane is working.
Prabhupāda: In Kanpur there is a big temple that belongs to the Tiwari family. It is famous temple. Many people go there to visit.
Krishna Tiwari: I haven't lived there too long. Lucknow, we came to Lucknow, and...
Prabhupāda: The temple is very old temple. So the proprietors of the temple are brāhmaṇas, Tiwari. So the eldest member, old Mr. Tiwari, was a very nice, great devotee. At home he had Deity, Rukmiṇī-Kṛṣṇa. He was worshiping at home Rukmiṇī-Kṛṣṇa, Dvārakā.
Śyāmasundara: Mr. Tiwari is a well-known scientist. Biolo... Biologist?
Krishna Tiwari: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Molecular biology?
Krishna Tiwari: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director.
Prabhupāda: Four hundred years ago the land was there. They, these Europeans, migrated there. Now they are proprietor. So four hundred years ago, who was the proprietor. In this way, trace history. The land is there, the ocean is there, everything is there. We sometimes claim that "I am the proprietor," "We are the proprietor," but this is lying there. Who is actually the proprietor? Actually proprietor is God, Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is owned by the supreme īśvara. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). So if we study scrutinizingly, then we'll find God is the proprietor actually. He is the creator; therefore He is the proprietor. And because He is the proprietor, He is friend of all. Actually. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). Īśvara is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, and He's giving us good counsel. We are not abiding by that.
Prabhupāda: No, how he could claim? He's a devotee of God, he's servant of God. How he can claim? Of course, there is no difference between God and His servant. Yes. That we say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata... **. Because a devotee, like Lord Jesus Christ, means confidential servant of God, there is no difference between God and himself. Just like any political representative or business representative, he's, if he's a confidential representative, there is no difference between the king or the proprietor of the firm, so long he represents rightly. Similarly, anyone who represents God or the cause of God, he's not different from God. We should offer respect to such person exactly like God. That is our instruction of the ācāryas. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **. In every śāstra the spiritual master is recognized as personally the Supreme Lord. But in... Why he is recognized? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. Because he's the most dear servant of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is, we pray, offer our prayers to our spiritual master. So it is very nice. You are attempting. I am very glad. So you can inquire from me anything. The first thing I shall request you, the first principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the first ABCD of spiritual education, is to understand the constitutional position of the living entity. He is, he is spirit soul. He's not this body. The spirit soul is living within this body, but the, the body's not the spirit soul. This thing must be understood very clearly. You know, in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, the proprietor of the body, is within this body. Dehinaḥ asmin dehe yathā. And the body is changing, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, like that. So when this body will be useless, we will take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This first education of spiritual life should be understood first. Then one can make progress. Then one can understand what is the constitution of God, what is our relationship with Him. But if, so long we shall remain under the bodily concept of life, this subject matter will remain difficult.
Haṁsadūta: Well, whoever they may be, they've gone there with some interest about communism. Otherwise, they would not go there. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Actually, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is perfect communism, Prabhupāda always explained, because communism, so-called communism, they give advantage only to the human being, but not to the animals or the other living beings. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is pure, genuine, absolute communism because we recognize that the Supreme... Everyone should work for Kṛṣṇa. Everything should be utilized for Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is the supreme head of state, and everything is utilized for His purpose, His service. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you do as work, whatever you eat, whatever you give away, you do it for Me." The same philosophy... Communist philosophy is "Everyone works for the state; the state will distribute." Right? But it's imperfect. But here is the perfect thing. Kṛṣṇa, He is the supreme creator, He's the proprietor. Therefore everything must be used for His pleasure. Then it becomes perfect communism.
Prabhupāda: Instead of making the state center, make God center.
Prabhupāda: Everything... In this table, whatever is there, it is created. The table is created. The light is created. Everything is created by somebody. So how I can deny this fact, that somebody has created the whole universe? If you say, "It has comes automatically, dropped," that is rascaldom. It must be accepted somebody has created. So who is that somebody? You have not created. The Americans have not created, the Englishmen have not created, or I have created, you have created, but we can understand that somebody has created. So who will be the proprietor? I shall be proprietor or the creator shall be proprietor? Who shall be the proprietor?
Dr. Inger: Creator. Of course.
Prabhupāda: Creator. So why you are claiming other's property as "my own"? "This is my country. This is my country." And we are so rascal and we are making United Nation.
Prabhupāda: American, they cheated the Red Indians. They got the land. Now they are claiming, "It is my land." But where you got this land? You have cheated the Red Indians, and you claim now it is your land. "Nobody should come here." Everywhere that is there it belongs to... Napoleon, he thought, "France is mine." France is there. Where he has gone, the proprietor? Yes. And with this idea he fought so much. Now nobody knows what he has become, where he is living, either in France or in hell, maybe in heaven. But there are so many places and so many forms of life. And our Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. Just like I am now in this body. Child is in this body. So all of us sometimes were in this body, childish. So where is that body? That body is not existing. But I am existing; you are existing. You know that you had such a body. You were also playing like this child. I also remember. So the body is not existing. I am existing. So I have got a different body now. So where is the difficulty to under-stand that when this body is also finished I get another body?
Prabhupāda: And severe punishment for him. Kṛṣṇa has shown this example. (break) We explain two, three lines from Bhāgavatam. How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient. (break) ...anumāna-pramāṇa. Anumāna, hypothesy, and pramāṇa, śāstra-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. evidences from the Vedas. Evidences from authorized persons. And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress. Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress. We are passing on, on the street. If I say: "Here is a big building. So someone is proprietor." This is one guess. But to know the proprietor, how he has constructed it, that is another thing. But if somebody says: "I am the proprietor."
Prabhupāda: No. Dreaming at night, dreaming at day. The same thing. The pattern is different. Pattern is different. If you think that you are Englishman, you are Swedish, or if you are Hindu, you are Muslim, that is also dream. You are none of this. As much as you are none of those dreaming things at night. But due to our madness, sometimes we take: "This is fact," sometimes we take: "That is fact." But none of them are facts. Under different condition, we accept them as facts. But none of them are facts. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness means: sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one becomes freed from all designations. Upādhi. Upādhi means designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Completely free from all designation. Just like in dream I think I have become now king. I am the proprietor of a factory. But none of them. It is only dream. Similarly, in day dream I am thinking I am the father of this family, I am the mother of this family, I am this, I am that. That is all dreaming. So one has to become free from this dreaming condition. That is called sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), liberated from all kinds of false designation. Designation... Designation means false...
Prabhupāda: They do not know. Brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gītā the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijñāsā. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul. He is the proprietor. So this life should be, education means one should be advanced in education to inquire about himself, that is brahma-jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And as soon as there is question of jijñāsā, then there must be somebody else from whom to inquire. Therefore śāstra says that when you are jijñāsu, when you are inquisitive... Inquisitive of what? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Śreyas. Here we are also jijñāsu, we are going to the market; "What is the rate of this share? What is the rate of this commodity? What is the rate of rice?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you believe in Bhagavad-gītā, that is different thing. You cannot say all these things. But if you take this also, that also, that is another thing. We have to take a standard. Ācchā. (Hindi) I have got some important engagement with Mrs. Nair. She's the proprietor of the land. So...
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi ) So you can go and see the temple, ārati. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes, with senses, senses. That is... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we have got relationship with God and senses, our senses. That is hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). When the senses are engaged with the Supreme, in relationship, that is called bhakti. It is a question of senses. It is not vague. We apply everything, we go with our senses. Just like the leg, we go, take our legs to the temple. We use our tongue for glorifying, for eating the prasādam. Every senses. That is bhakti. It is not sensuous, but engaging the senses in the service of the proprietor of the senses.
Karandhara: But they say that's a faith.
Prabhupāda: That's not faith, that's fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it looks like I am the proprietor of these souls.
Prabhupāda: No, no, you are not proprietor, nobody is proprietor. You are put into that condition by God. Real proprietor is God. You are simply placed in that condition, that's all. That is your dependence on the condition offered by God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But just like in a office, the boss is working and there are different clerks. There are secretaries helping him.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore the boss is the chief man who is giving work: "You like this. You work like this. You work like this. You work like this."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I am the boss.
Prabhupāda: No, you are not boss. You are also one of the workers.
Prabhupāda: You'll get profit." So who is better? One, by disappointment, he says, "Close this business. There is no profit." And another man says, "No, don't close it. We shall make you profit. We shall show you profit. Just manage it properly." This is our proposition. We don't say that "Stop all these material activities." No. Just do it properly so that you get real profit and real benefit. That is our program. We don't want to make it zero, no. Why shall I make it zero? (break) ...can be taken just like there is business, but the workers, the assistants, they have no idea who is the proprietor. So everyone is doing something, taking pocket, something this, take pocket, his pocket, so how the business will go on nicely? That is being done. Everyone, these rascals, they have no idea who is the proprietor of this world. So they are doing in their nonsensical way. Therefore there is confusion. The business is not profitable. But if they accept, "No, the real proprietor is such and such gentleman, so he wants to do us like this," then the business will be profitable. Everyone is thinking that he is proprietor, so how this business will profit? This is the position. Everyone is thinking that he is the proprietor. He forgets that he is worker. He is not proprietor. That is the mistake. Therefore the business is mismanaged, and there is no profit, simply chaos.
Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight. Just like this chaotic condition of the petrol. The Arabians thinking that "I am the proprietor. Why shall I give to the Americans?" Thing is there, but it is chaotic only because they do not accept the proprietor is God. That is the defect. How you can give freedom for stealing? Stealing freedom means punishment awaiting you. If I give you freedom—"Yes, whatever you like, you can go on stealing"—that means next stage is your punishment. That is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that proprietor stage is relative.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is relative. Relative means you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever He gives, you accept and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. You were also given the equal chance. Prabhupāda, my Guru Mahārāja, sat down at Māyāpura. But you were given the place of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birth place. What, what you have done? It is still jungle. And what is Māyāpura there? All Americans are building a palatial building. So simply by criticizing, one does not become a very confidential devotee. Where is the action? What he has done? That is required. Phalena paricīyate. (break) ...everything. Unless Kṛṣṇa gives opportunity, nobody can serve Kṛṣṇa also. But he gives opportunity to the proper person. That is everywhere. If you want to become manager of a firm, the proprietor of the firm will see whether you are able to do that. Then he will give the chance. "Yes." This is reciprocal. Just like this śloka we were studying today. Kṛṣṇa becomes sārathi. Does Kṛṣṇa go to become sārathi of a rascal and fool? He becomes sārathi of Arjuna. That has to be seen. And without any qualification: "Kṛṣṇa, become my sārathi." Kṛṣṇa's not so easy. First of all qualify.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Paradise. Paradise?
Bali Mardana: Yes, I think that is it. The woman was telling us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She was very friendly. Mrs. Max Linder. Her husband is the proprietor, and she would call her husband, "Max, why don't you take these books," like this. She was friendly. And that Mr. Max was first-class businessman. He will extract as much profit as... (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. It was sold. Practically, in the beginning, they were selling. I was getting some money. There was no other income. Another bookseller, Oriental.
Bali Mardana: Yes, Oriental.
Nitāi: Orientalia.
Prabhupāda: I have asked that Shishu Kumar, Shishu Kumar you know?
Guru dāsa: No.
Prabhupāda: The Atmarama & Son's proprietor.
Guru dāsa: Oh yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: He came to see me.
Guru dāsa: Yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: So I asked him the quotation of that small edition of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. He told me that he will inform me. Anyway (Hindi).
Guest (5): (Hindi).
Prabhupāda: There are so many. Even in...
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Even in... I do not wish to say. Even this Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa, Kalyāṇa proprietor, that Goenka.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Goenka.
Prabhupāda: He was doing that. In Calcutta. Govinda Bhavan.
Dr. Patel: Goenka?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: This Goenka.
Prabhupāda: Not this Goenka. That...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...office, you cannot contact the proprietor directly. There are subordinate officers. Through them you have to take the proprietor's help. The office master is there. You have to satisfy the office master. You cannot directly approach the proprietor. If you satisfy the office master, then your promotion and other things is all right. But if you want to... I have got practical experience. One of my friend, he was working in office. So the proprietor was there and many other employees were there. So that my friend, he suggested something to the proprietor, and the proprietor immediately dismissed him: "Oh, this man want to suggest me. Dismiss immediately. Give him his pay he will require." In that I have got practical experience. He later on became so sorry. Now it is the process. So this is practical. We should not try to approach directly Kṛṣṇa. That is not the right way. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I am the servant of the servant of." So you have to serve your immediate master, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the Supreme Lord. If you want to jump over the original master, that is not good. Then you will be dismissed like, like my friend.
Prabhupāda: ...have purchase this land for him for preaching Christian Bible. So he, maybe he was getting some salary on this land in this way. He gave up Gauḍīya Maṭha association and he became Christian. So I know that this land belonged to him. His wife was there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: Maybe at Allahabad. He's the proprietor. He was Mr. Cakravarti.
Dr. Patel: "I am enjoyer of all the yajñas to whom, whatever and to whomever you are doing." How would you accept that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. The king. The king is the proprietor of all taxes. But he's not a tax collector.
Dr. Patel: Now, now, Chando Bhai, come here.
Prabhupāda: The king...
Guest (3) (Indian man): What do you want?
Prabhupāda: ...is the proprietor...
Prabhupāda: "Nanda-kiśora, what I have got? I have got a restless mind and I have got my family, home, wife, children, and this body. This is my possessions. I am not the proprietor of the whole world or universe. But I am pro... I suppose, I think like that, that I have got a mind, think like nonsense and do like nonsense, and I have got this body, and I have got my family. So everything I surrender." This is surrender. Don't think anything else, what Kṛṣṇa does not like. That is first surrender. No reservation, that "So much I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, and I contemplate like this, like that, like that." That is not surrender.
Guest (1): That is not surrender.
Guest (2): And what about desires?
Prabhupāda: No. Forgiveness is... I know that in church the confession program is there. Forgiveness... Suppose you are or I am an offender. I ask your forgiveness. So you can forgive me once, twice, thrice, not more than that. You cannot make it a profession that you go on committing sins and God will forgive you. No, that is not possible. That is misconception. That is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). This sudurācāraḥ, means offender, that is not willful offense. One person is accustomed to some bad habits, but he has taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness. But on account of strong habit, if he fails sometimes, that is excused, forgiveness, not that willful committing sin and ask for forgiveness. That is not allowed. In common affairs we do not see. I have got practical, I mean to say, experience. In my householder life I was proprietor of a big pharmacy. So my manager sold some morphia preparation to some unauthorized person. So the sales inspector, they noted it and made us a criminal. And the magistrate called me because I was the proprietor.
Prabhupāda: It will be used by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). He is thinking that "I am proprietor of this atomic bomb," but he does not know that the other's atomic bomb will kill me, and my atomic bomb, I kill him. That's all. He does not know that. He is thinking, "I am very proud of possessing." But that will be the cause of his death.
Yogeśvara: Is such an atomic war foretold in SB..
Prabhupāda: Yes. Next war means atomic war. All these rascals will be killed automatically. I will kill you, you'll kill me. That's all.
Prabhupāda: They will not take any payment. Just like under me so many Europeans and Americans work daily. I don't pay them a farthing. When they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll haven't got to pay anything. But you cannot take also anything. You cannot, you do not expect that "I don't have to pay anything, so it is very good profit." No, sir, you cannot take also anything. If I would have taken all the sales produced of the book selling, then you would not work. Because although it is my books, I do not take any profit or any sales proceeds, therefore you work. Similarly, these rascals, the proprietor of the factories, if they do not take anything, they will also agree not to take anything. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Then the solution is there.
Yogeśvara: So in other words the workers are unsatisfied because they see that the managers are exploiting them, but if they see the managers are giving the money to Kṛṣṇa, they will feel satisfied.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and they will also give. Kṛṣṇa becomes the proprietor. Everyone is satisfied.
Dhanañjaya: Jaya. This is varṇāśrama institution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is above varṇāśrama. It is above varṇāśrama. Varṇāśrama there is give and take, but here there is no give and... Here is simply give, no take. That is above varṇāśrama.
Dhanañjaya: So the workers are giving to the devotees and the devotees are giving to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. Da means "that gives." Any type of material body you accept will be kleśada. They have constructed this building. If for few hours there is severe cold, so many people will die, even in this comfortable building. Is it not? So kleśada is there; either you remain in this way or that way, the sufferings will be there. And to take this comfort of this high building, how much kleśada, how much miserable condition, one has to pass. "Sir, I am not doing; the workers are doing." But you have to collect the money to pay them. How much miserable it is to acquire this money to pay another kleśada, laborer. So simply they are captivated by money. Otherwise it is kleśada. Sometimes they fall down and die while constructing. Is it not? Now, I have heard that in New York there are many buildings and there is no tenant. Kleśada. The proprietor of the house, he is also suffering. "I have spent so much money. No tenant." In London I have seen there is, for the last six or seven years, very big building. It is vacant.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) First of all, they were importing European masters, and now they are importing dogs. Now they will have to import European brāhmaṇas. Yes. Because in India all the brāhmaṇas are now finished. So for their ritualistic ceremony they will have to import from Europe, America. Long ago... Long ago, not long ago, about four, five years ago, I wrote this fact. (break) ...the communists, as they making, that the state is the proprietor of everything, so what is the harm of accepting God as the proprietor of everything? What is the harm? He is giving up his own right. The state is the proprietor. So why not make "God is the proprietor"? What is the harm? And actually, God is the proprietor. Now, this lake, it is not made by the state. It is made by God. They are claiming this is Swiss lake. What is that?
Prabhupāda: What is the answer? Why you are kicked out? Answer somebody.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's just like this body.
Bhagavān: He's not the real proprietor.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?
Yogeśvara: Yeah, there was that man who came to see you a couple of days ago. His argument was that we can't really say for sure because it's not perceivable that we will take a dog's body. But at least this is something we can understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So we are also communist. As you take the state as the center, we take Kṛṣṇa as the center. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is Karandhara?
Devotee: He's coming.
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa, that "I am the enjoyer. I am the proprietor. I am the friend." Bhoktāram... Read out this.
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā says, Kṛṣṇa, that "I am the enjoyer. I am the proprietor. I am the friend." Bhoktāram... Read out this.
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
This is the process of peacefulness, when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor of all lokas, all worlds. And Kṛṣṇa is the best friend of everyone. (French) (aside:) Get the light. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says that liberation of India from the English was done because of many, various forces, but that amongst the people, the common mass of people who helped to liberate India, there was, of course, a religious people. But there was religious people on both sides. There was religious people amongst those who wanted to liberate India, but also among those who wanted the English to be there, not in imperialism.
| Page Title: | Proprietor (Conversations 1969 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 19 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=70, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 70 |