Prabhupāda: He conquered all over the world almost. He went to India also. So he met one robber. So he arrested, Alexander. He was king. The robber said, "Why you have arrested me?" "Because you are robber." "Oh, you are also great robber." When Alexander was charging him that, "You have done this," oh, he charges, "You have done this. I have entered a private house; you have entered a private state. So you are a big robber." Then he released him, "Yes, what is the difference between robber and me?" And Alexander, from that day, he stopped his conquering propaganda. "Alexander and the Robber." The robber proved that "You are a big robber only. But because you are big robber, therefore you are called 'Alexander the Great.' But my business is the same as yours-encroaching upon others' property. Why do you think that I am culprit and you are innocent? You are also culprit. If I had power, I could have punished you. And you have now power, you are trying to punish me." So Alexander the Great was convinced by robber.
Property (Conversations, 1968 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Anyone in the most miserable condition of life he'll think, "Oh, I am very happy." Ask him, "How are you?" "Oh, very nice. Very nice." So there is no adjustment. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person should... He knows that here only adjustment is to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the only... If he's materially conscious... What is the difference between materially conscious man and Kṛṣṇa conscious man? Materially conscious person is thinking everything as his property or enjoyable thing. And Kṛṣṇa conscious person is seeing the same thing as Kṛṣṇa's. A materially conscious person is satisfied, you get him a nice aromatic flower for his personal enjoyment, and Kṛṣṇa conscious person he at once thinks, "It is very nice flower, it should be offered to Kṛṣṇa." The flower is there, he is there, the consciousness is changed, that's all. He's thinking everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Here the man, distributing food to the animals and fish, he's thinking that "I am doing some pious activities and I shall enjoy the fruit of it." And that's a fact. But if we distribute Kṛṣṇa prasādam, we think that "This man is being supplied Kṛṣṇa prasādam, one day he may become Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no personal question. And the principle of distributing Kṛṣṇa prasādam is there. Therefore even they don't say any charge, if you distribute the prasādam, if you are able, you are doing some service. Because by eating only, he shall one day become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So whole program is for Kṛṣṇa. And that is Kṛṣṇa karma.(?) You are preparing, you are earning money, you are distributing prasādam. Why? For Kṛṣṇa's sake. Otherwise, why should you work so hard? But we have voluntarily accepted, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Reporter: Yes. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, its Vedic literature, they have some of the same books or also holy books for what we call Hindu religions, aren't they?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just try to understand, the inhabitants of India were called by the Muhammadans from Persia and other places, "Hindus." "Hindus" means the resident on the other side of the River Indus. You have heard the name of River Indus. So they cannot pronounce it Indus, they say "Hindus." From "Hindus," it has become "Hindu." So actually the residents of India were called "Hindus." And generally, at least in, say, three thousand years ago, all the inhabitants of India were strictly followers of Vedic principles. After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In India also the temple go, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, please keep my family well," or this or that. Economic problem. Generally, people, they become religionist... Therefore modern politicians, they say, "Why should you..." Just like the Russians. They say, "Why should you go to church for begging, 'Give us our daily...' oh, you come to us. We shall give you sufficient bread." The Bolshevists, they make propaganda like this. They go to village to village and ask the village men, "Oh, you pray to your church, pray, 'O God, give us our daily bread,' So have you got your bread?" "No, sir." "All right. Pray to us." They have taken a truck full of bread and... "Take bread. Take bread. As much as you like." "So whom do you like?" Oh, they will naturally say, "I like you." (laughter) Because they are not intelligent enough to answer, "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread, from your father's house?" (Laughter) Can you manufacture the bread in the factory, rascal? It is God's bread. But they have no intelligence. They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: You require fooding. Yes, for maintaining your body. Not for satisfying the tongue. "This, I want to eat this, I want to eat that, I want to eat that." No. Eat something. Just maintain your body. That's all. You sleep just to keep yourself fit to work. Not that sleeping for twelve hours, fourteen hours. No. Six, seven, utmost eight. That's all. Then eating, sleeping, defending. That's also required. Defend yourself. Not to encroach upon other's property. Just like Hitler sending soldiers in others' country. Why? You defend your own country. That's all right. You defend your home. That is not prohibited. The śāstra allows it. If somebody comes to encroach upon your property, you kill him immediately. That is said. But not kill unnecessarily. Just like Arjuna was taught, "Kill them. They have insulted your wife, they have encroached upon your property. They must be killed." That is allowed. But you don't be aggressive. So ahāra-nidrā-bhaya, and sex, sex life. Yes. Just get yourself married and have sex life only for children. Not for other purposes. So kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ. Kāma means we have got some demands of the body. That is called kāma or lust. So that does not mean that we have to gratify the senses.
Prabhupāda: So these hippies, they are frustrating. They have given up everything. We can study their psychic movement. They are not satisfied. That is the main principle. That is natural, to accept adversity voluntarily, adversity. So this is frustration. But before reaching to that point of frustration, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you reach the real standard of happiness because everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. I shall give you another example. Suppose you have stolen something from somebody's house or some friends. You will not be happy, even possessing that thing, stolen property. But if someday you come to return that thing to that friend, you will be happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property.
Hayagrīva: Well, in order to develop the place properly, we're going to need people who are dedicating themselves, not just fly-by-night, people who come and stay for a week and then go.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they will come.
Hayagrīva: But we're going to need people who stay here permanently.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some people will... At least fifty men should live here permanently. That I shall arrange.
Hayagrīva: Fifty.
Prabhupāda: Fifty at least. Otherwise this big property, how it can be managed? At least fifty men. At least. It may go to two hundred.
Kīrtanānanda: On this property?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: Haribol.
Prabhupāda: This whole property. We have to manage so many temples.
Kīrtanānanda: The conservation people estimate that this land will support eighteen people.
Hayagrīva: Well, that's materialists.
Kīrtanānanda: Thirty people, I think.
Hayagrīva: That's a materialistic calculation.
Kīrtanānanda: So if you want one cow for every person, it would only support eighteen cows.
Prabhupāda: Eighteen cows? The whole property?
Kīrtanānanda: If you want them to be self-sufficient, you have to grow grain for them for the winter.
Prabhupāda: All right. Let eighteen people first of all. Then we shall share, eighteen people. You see?
Hayagrīva: One cow per person. We're all going to end up with the gout.
Prabhupāda: No. They don't calculate one cow, one person. They calculate only cow. And that does not mean eighteen persons will only remain.
Hayagrīva: I think a cow can do four or five people nicely.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? No... I calculated, one cow per one person means the milk products he can sell, he can get other necessities of life in that way. Yes. And otherwise, one cow's milk, it can be shared by ten people at least.
Hayagrīva: So eighteen cows, that's 180 people. I mean, could support that many people on the farm.
Prabhupāda: Not support.
Devotee: Give them milk.
Hayagrīva: Oh, give them milk.
Prabhupāda: Milk, yes. Milk products.
Kīrtanānanda: I think you could keep fifty cows on this property if you bought your grain and hay from outside.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we have to do. We cannot get everything. If we construct temple, we will require so many things. It is not possible to be self-sufficient within this land. We have to get so many things outside. That means we have to get money from outside. Yes.
Prabhupāda: So sarva-loka, in all planets, all the planets, actually that is God's place. Nobody's place. We come here empty-handed; we go empty-handed. How we can claim? Suppose you have given me this place to stay. I stay for one week, and if I claim, "Oh, this is my room," is that very nice thing? (laughs) There will be immediately some disagreement, trouble. But you have kindly spared this room. I am living here. I can comfortably live, enjoy. And when my necessity... When I go, there is no trouble. Similarly, we come here in the kingdom of God empty-handed; we go empty-handed. Why we trouble that "This is my property, this is my country, this is my world, this is my planet"? Why we claim like that? Is it not insanity? Wherefrom the claim comes? So Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the Supreme Lord of every place." And suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 5.29). And He is the real friend of every living entity. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). As a friend, He is sitting within your heart. He's so nice friend. In this material world we make friendship. It breaks. Or the friend lives somewhere, and I live somewhere. But He's so nice friend that He's living within, with me and within my heart. He is so nice friend. Sarva-bhūtānāṁ.
Yoko Ono: If Hare Kṛṣṇa is such a strong, powerful mantra, is there any reason to chant anything else? For instance, you talked about songs and many different mantras. Is there any point in chanting other songs or mantra?
Prabhupāda: No, no. These mantras are also... But Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is specially recommended for this age. And the Vedic mantras, they are also chanted, I told you, with musical, tampura, and they sit down and chant. Nārada Muni, he's chanting always. So chanting through musical instruments, mantras, it is not new introduction. It is from time immemorial. And Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, especially in this age, that is recommended in many Vedic literature, Brahmanda Purāṇa, Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad, Agni Purāṇa, like that. And apart from the statement in the Vedic literature, Lord Caitanya Himself, He preached this mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... And people, public, followed Him. Yes. (break) So anything... Just like a scientist. When he discovers something, it becomes a public property. People may take advantage of it. Similarly, if mantra has got potency, all people should take advantage of it. Why it should be secret?
George Harrison: All people can get the mantras that we have, but it's just they must get it from somebody else. We can't give it to them, but it is available for everybody.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mantra, if it is valuable, it is valuable for everybody. Why it should be for a particular person?
Prabhupāda: So now people do not wish to consider also this point, that "If I am eternal, if I am changing my place, my dress, my occupation every fifty years or ten years or twelve years according to the dress..." The cats and dogs, they live for ten years. The cows live for twenty years, and the man lives for, say, hundred years. Trees lives for thousands years. But everyone has to change. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). As we have to change our old dress, similarly, this body has to be changed. And we are changing. Changing every moment. That is a fact. This boy will grow also some day like you, like me. This body will not stay. I had a body like this, say, fifty years ago or sixty years ago, but that body is now missing. I have got a different body. So everyone is changing body in this way. We do not know where that body gone, but ultimately also, we shall change, and we shall enter another body, and again we have to begin new set of work, leaving all aside. Suppose this life I was President Kennedy; next life, even if I am born in America next door to President Kennedy's house, nobody will recognize me that "Here is your property. Come on. Enjoy." No. Property's gone. Again he has to make another property. This is going on. So the people do not think that "What I am doing? What I have gained? What is my ultimate aim of life?" This is missing.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So God is not your order-supplier.
Guest: They became atheist...
Prabhupāda: God is not your order-supplier. You create war and pray to the church. Why you create war? Precaution is better than... Unless you Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you will... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). You will encroach upon other's property. That pāpa-bīja has to be killed. Now, after creating war... What is the use? After creating war by your own fault, if you go to the church and pray God, "Please save me," so who wanted you to create this war? They are creating their wars, and they are making God as order-supplier: "Now I have created war. Please stop it." Why? Did you do it by the sanction of God? So they must suffer. How can you make God as your order-supplier? You create something by your own fault and you ask God to come and save you. What is your answer? That is... That is, means, sva-karma-phala-bhuk. You have created something: you must suffer for that. You have created some disease: you must suffer it. Why you violated the law of nature and created your disease? Is it not a fact that when you eat, overeat, and you have got so many troubles in the stomach, then you must suffer for some time. You have created that disease.
Prabhupāda: Modern sociology is targeting the state or the people as the owner of a certain state, but our Vedic conception is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ: (ISO 1) "Everything is owned by Īśa, the Supreme Controller." Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "What is given by Him, allotted to you, you enjoy that." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam: "But we not encroach upon others' property." This is Īśopaniṣad, Vedas. And the same idea is explained in different Purāṇas. So the Vedas can give you... The other day I was reading in the, that paper, Moscow News, there was a congress, Communist congress, and the president declared that "We are ready to get others' experience to improve." So I think the Vedic concept of socialism or communism will much improve the idea of communism. Just like we are thinking in terms of human beings, the commu..., socialistic state, that "Nobody should starve. Everyone must have his food." And in the Vedic conception of gṛhastha, householder, it is recommended there that a householder shall see that even a lizard living in the room or even a snake living in that house should not starve. They should be also given food. And what to speak of others? The gṛhastha, before taking his lunch, he is recommended to stand on the road and declare that "If anybody is still hungry, please come. Food is ready." Then, if there is no response, then the proprietor of the household life, he takes his lunch. In this way there are so many good concept about this socialistic idea of communism. So I thought that these ideas might have been distributed to some of your thoughtful men. Therefore I was anxious to speak with you.
Prabhupāda: But another place it is stated that "Cow dung, although it is the stool of an animal, it is pure." Even if you apply in an impure place, you become purified. Now, this is superficially contradicting. In one place it is said that "The stool of an animal is impure. As soon as you touch, you have to be purified," and another place it is said that "Cow dung is pure." So according to our knowledge, it is contradictory.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But those who are followers of the Vedas, they are accepting. Is it not, cow dung, pure? Cow dung pure, it is not accepted by the followers of Vedas?
Guest: That is.
Prabhupāda: And if you analyze chemically, you'll find the cow dung contains all antiseptic properties.
Prof. Kotovsky: This I don't know.
Prabhupāda: You do not know, but there is a...
Prof. Kotovsky: I have to test. This I do not know, but...
Guest: Yes, one must try to realize it...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that... That... One Dr. Ghosh, professor of medical college, Lal Mohan Ghosh, he... I was medically connected in my previous life. So that Lal Mohan Ghosh analyzed it, and, it is his statement, it is full of, I mean to say, antiseptic properties. So Vedic statements, even sometimes you find it is contradictory, but if you analyze scrutinizingly, you find it is correct.
Mr. Arnold: This is the first thing. You see, when we're talking of Kingsway Hall, you know, the big one, before, well here you had a bank on the site, and they were rather anxious to keep their premises, and consequently they would have loaned us money to retain their site. Any of these four that we're dealing with at the moment, there are no other banks or building societies on the site. This is what I think is, is absolutely imperative, that within the...
Prabhupāda: The bank will not be prepared to advance in such property?
Mr. Arnold: Well, they may well do, but it would only be... One couldn't guarantee that they would be expected to. But the bank manager, where the account of this temple is kept, they may be tempted to loan a half or three quarters of it, if they think that the thing is a good... I mean, this site at Kings Street, Hammersmith, for instance, if we don't buy it, then the suggestion is that within the very foreseeable future the place will be pulled down to build a large hotel, which means to say that the site is very valuable. On this score, the bank may well be tempted to loan you some money, just on the site alone, (indistinct) the premises. They would be interested.
Prabhupāda: Then means that a church turned out a new building. So that is a big stake.
Prabhupāda: Suppose we can arrange for the money, somehow or other, half. Half a million required?
Mr. Arnold: For, for the new premises.
Prabhupāda: One fourth million if we can arrange. So is it possible to arrange for the other one fourth million from the bank?
Mr. Arnold: I think that if you're putting up a quarter of it, a quarter of a million, then I think there's every certainty of the bank loaning you the other quarter. I think this is quite a definite circumstance.
Dhanañjaya: See, because what they do is they loan the money on the strength of the value of the property. If the value of the property is 500,000 pounds, then they'll be quite...
Prabhupāda: So why don't you try for this property?
Śyāmasundara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then I will need the help of this Mr. (indistinct). I can try to raise that one fourth million, and one fourth million if the bank advances, then we can negotiate immediately.
Śyāmasundara: It would be nice if the Indians could help.
Prabhupāda: Do some practical proposal.
Prabhupāda: Actually, we don't possess anything. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. What we possess, so-called possession, that is illegal. Because I cannot possess your property. I can possess your property by stealing. Not by fair dealings.
Guest (2): So it's a voluntary thing, really?
Guest (1): I can possess it if you give it to me.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nice. So that is our philosophy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Whatever God has given you, you possess. Don't try to possess other's property. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. Everything belongs to God, so whatever God gives me, you enjoy it. I take it. I don't encroach upon other's property.
Guest (1): You use your own, responsibly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I should feel grateful. "Oh, God has given me this thing, so whatever utility is there, first of all I must offer to God." God has given me this grain to eat, so I must cook and first of all offer to God, and then I shall eat." This is feeling gratitude, grateful.
Guest (1): Well, a Beethoven symphony, for example, could you listen to that?
Prabhupāda: Which one?
Revatīnandana: Beethoven's symphony. He means classical Western music. They make some music.
Prabhupāda: But if it is glorification of God, we can hear. There is no objection.
Revatīnandana: But there may be no reference to God in it.
Prabhupāda: No, then we don't hear. We reject.
Guest (1): Inspired by God, given by God.
Prabhupāda: Given by God is everything. That is another thing. Just like everything is government property. But do you like to go to the prisonhouse? We say everything belongs to government. We are not so liberal, that "Because everything belongs to government, therefore I shall go to the prisonhouse."
Prabhupāda: Western civilization created artificial. "This is Africa, this is America, this is Europe..."
Journalist (1): Yes. Therefore that's made living as children of God impossible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the one son of God is not allowing the other son to come in. And that he hasn't got the right to forbid. Just like your father has got ten sons. So all the tens sons have got the right to use the property of the father. That is law. Similarly, all the living entities, not only human beings. Birds, animals, birds, beasts—everyone. This is called spiritual, or transcendental, communism. According to Vedic civilization, a householder has to see that even a lizard in the room is not fasting, to see whether it has got his food. Even there is a snake in the house, the householder is to see whether the snake has got his food. A householder would stand on the street, and before taking his food, he will say loudly, "If anyone is hungry, please come. Still I have got my food." And if there is no response, then he takes prasādam.
Journalist (1): That's really what I was going to ask you. You must find life difficult preaching the values of brotherhood in a society...
Prabhupāda: Natural brotherhood. Just like in a family, naturally, a father has got ten sons, they are brothers. But one son is intriguing how to take the whole property. That is going on. That is demonic. If every one of the father's sons thinks that "Father is one and father's property equally should be distributed." But no. One cunning son is simply intriguing how to occupy the whole estate for me. That is going on all over the world.
Journalist (1): How do you stop that?
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Journalist (1): By Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you are educated that God is one, Father is one, we are all sons, then the whole solution is made.
Journalist (1): Some people might say, who weren't perhaps as convinced as you...
Prabhupāda: Some people means the demons. We are creating demons. By our education, we are creating demons. That demons, they are being frustrated; they are now becoming hippies. Yes. That is the position. Because everyone wants to enjoy. So as soon as we cannot enjoy, there is some reaction. You see?
Journalist (1): He rejects.
Prabhupāda: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.
Guest (2): So that if it's a just war we are going to fight. And the war is coming, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Why should we be afraid of fighting?
Guest (2): We are not afraid!
Prabhupāda: We never... The Bhagavad-gītā never says that when enemy attacks, you become nonviolent. No, no. Never. Rather, Gandhi said that "Yes, I shall..." Somebody asked Gandhi that "If in your presence your wife or your daughter is ravaged, what you will do?" That question was there, actually. But he said that "I say nonviolence upon..."
Guest (2): No, no, no. Another part. Then he said, "I'll hit him back." On that condition. He said, "If that comes all right, hit him back."
Prabhupāda: He said that.
Guest (2): He said, "If a duṣṭa does that to you, you hit her back."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our policy. Our ātatāyinaḥ, the śastra ātatāyinaḥ. Ātatāyinaḥ means a person who usurps my property.
Guest (2): A tyrant.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest (2): A tyrant, ātatāyinaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Aggressor, aggressor.
Guest (2): Aggressor.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: But if you have that material desire, does that slow up your advancement?
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness it will vanish. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, because you desire, He'll give you. He'll give you. Kṛṣṇa is so kind that "Oh, you wanted this? All right, you take!" That is the benefit of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You get both these things. You reject, "No, I asked for..." That is real pure devotion. "For this paltry happiness I requested Kṛṣṇa. What a fool I was." But Kṛṣṇa will give you because you desire. Therefore Dhruva Maharaja regretted that "I was such a fool that I came to in the forest Kṛṣṇa for asking my father's property. What a nonsense I was." But Kṛṣṇa gave. Better than. He demanded that "I shall have a property," because that was child. His stepmother insulted, so he was determined. Nārada Muni had requested him, "My dear boy, you are child. Why you be afflicted to this insult? Go now to play." So he said, "Your instruction is very nice, but I am so degraded, I cannot accept it as such. If you kindly give me some way that I can get," I mean, "material opulence better than my grandfather and father. You just give me such a post." His father was Uttānapāda. Grandfather was Brahma. So he wanted a post better than Brahma. So he was given: "Oh, yes, you'll get." But when he was offered a better position than Brahma, he regretted that "What I..., what a fool I was." He requested, "Sir, I am very much satisfied simply by Your..." "Never mind. You enjoy, then you come back." Kṛṣṇa is so kind.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, Mṛgāri. "Why you are killing in this way?" "Oh, it is my business. My father taught it." So he was honestly doing that. So feeling of honesty depends on different culture. A thief's culture is different. He thinks stealing is honesty.
Bob: So what is honesty?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my question. (laughter) Real honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's property. This is honesty. Just like this is my table. If you want to take it away while going, is that honesty? No. So therefore the simple definition of honesty is that you should not encroach upon other's right. That is honesty.
Bob: So somebody who is honest will be in the mode of goodness. Would that be correct?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Certainly. Because mode of goodness means knowledge. So if you know, if you're well conversant that "This table does not belong to me; it belongs to Swamiji," so you'll not try to take it away. Therefore one must know, be thoroughly well conversant; then he can be honest.
Bob: But, maybe it isn't... If I know it is yours and I take it I'm a worse thief than if I do not know whose it is and I just think it may be nobody's and I take it.
Prabhupāda: That is also stealing. Because it must belong to somebody.
Bob: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: How do you take it without his permission? You may not know exactly who is the proprietor, but you must know, "It must belong to somebody." That is knowledge. Sometimes we see on the road so many valuable things are lying, government property. You see? For repairing roads or electrical, so many things, valuable things are lying down. But a man may think that it is "Fortunately, it is lying there; so I take it." Is it not stealing?
Bob: It is stealing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that these are all government property. He takes away. That is stealing. And when he's caught he's arrested and he's punished. So similarly, whatever you are collecting... Suppose you are drinking a glass of water from the river. Is the river your property?
Bob: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? It is stealing. You have not created the river. You do not know who is the proprietor. Therefore it is not your property. So even if you drink a glass of water without the knowledge to whom it belongs you are a thief. So you think, "I'm honest." But factually you are thief. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8). You must remember Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, it is Your creation, so kindly allow me to drink it." This is honesty. This is honesty. Therefore a devotee always thinks of Kṛṣṇa in all activities. "Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's." Sarvatra sphuraya tara iṣṭa-deva mūrti. This is honesty. (Speaks to someone in Bengali) So without Kṛṣṇa consciousness everyone is a rascal, is a thief, is a rogue, is a robber, these qualifications. Therefore our conclusion is anyone who does not understand Kṛṣṇa, he has no good qualification. Neither he's honest, neither he has knowledge. Therefore he's a third-class man.
Indian man (2): A place for you, for a park, nice place for the ashram, on the parikrama path.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man (2): Away from the town hustle and bustle and...
Prabhupāda: What is their demand?
Indian man (2): Which one? I showed him... I showed two places. Which one?
Guru dāsa: The very large one right next to the road. The road curves like this. It is still part of that property.
Prabhupāda: You have not given that? Then change little. Not change—we have got addition that that portion cannot be used...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vegetarian food is very nice. We can give you vegetable menu, three hundred items at least.
Dai Nippon representative: Three hundred?
Prabhupāda: Three hundred. Simply grains, fruits, and butter, that's all, and sugar. You give us these four items and we give you three hundred items. Yes. There is a ceremony in India, annakūṭa, Govardhana-pūjā. So in that ceremony, in each and every temple they prepare as many varieties as possible. Some of them prepare three thousand.
Dai Nippon representative: Three thousand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. For weeks they prepare. And the competition is the more items the temple prepares, he becomes... (break) And distribution, prasāda distribution, free of charges. It was a very nice system that nobody should remain hungry. That is the system. If there is any temple in any neighborhood, in that neighborhood nobody should remain hungry. The Vedic system is that in your house, a householder shall see that even a lizard in the house is not hungry. He must also be given food. Even there is a snake—nobody likes snake—but a Vedic householder has to call the snake and give him food. He also may not remain hungry. This is the... And these things will be explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that anything, wherever it is, on land, on the air, sky, within the water, everywhere, God's kingdom; and all living entities, they are God's sons. So everyone has got the right to take advantage of his father's property. This is Bhāgavata communism. The communists are thinking in terms of their own country. But we, a devotee, we think in terms of all living entities, wherever he is, either in the sky or in the land or in the water. These things are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything, politics, sociology, religion, philosophy, science, astronomy—everything is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we should not take this movement as a religious movement. It is not religious movement. It is a movement for understanding knowledge. Veda. Veda means knowledge. So religion, according to English dictionary, is a kind of faith. Faith you can change. You have faith today in something. Tomorrow you may change. So this is knowledge. Any human being must be interested with advancement of knowledge.
Śyāmasundara: Kṛṣṇa is always playing the tune by which everyone is dancing?
Prabhupāda: No. You wanted to dance like this, He is giving facility. He is not in agreement with you.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, why does He say, "You give up all this nonsense, you surrender"? He does not approve, but he wanted to dance, "All right, you take the facility, dance." He doesn't like that you should dance like that, but he wants. "All right, you dance. You can take the facility, dance." Just like my Guru Mahārāja, Tīrtha Mahārāja wanted his property. "All right, take this property." But what he is doing?
Śyāmasundara: Sitting there in his wheelchair.
Prabhupāda: "You want this property, take property. All right." He's kind, "All right, this man gave me some service, he wants this property. All right, take this property." But what he has gained?
Śyāmasundara: Nothing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never wanted his property. I simply desired that such a sublime message, like my poetry, that...
Śyāmasundara: First poem upon arriving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miracle done. I wanted, "Oh, there is a miracle. If I try to preach this miracle in the world." So he has given me the facility. I never wanted the Gauḍīya Maṭha buildings.
Śyāmasundara: So because you desired in a certain way, He provided that facility also.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I desired that such a wonderful message, why not preach?
Devotee: Your Guru Mahārāja wanted twelve originally?
Prabhupāda: He wanted, but he was manage Gauḍīya Maṭha. We are managing the whole world. Guru Mahārāja (indistinct) less intelligent than (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: We can divide it up into smaller and smaller parts.
Prabhupāda: What you do now, this is my manifest plan, you... And so far Vṛndāvana is concerned, now there are three properties, so ideally one should keep (give?) his own property. Is that all right? (indistinct).
Devotee: That leased property.
Prabhupāda: Leased property. So I am not concerned. (indistinct) I want that you should live very peacefully and concentrate your mind for (indistinct). And we are not disturbed with these arrangements. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja will be (indistinct), then that problem is solved. Now you make divided zones and work (indistinct). I want to (indistinct). That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Immediately, write one letter to Girirāja that, uh, I suggest some names for becoming trustee, or you can suggest some of the life members you know.
Sumati Morarjee: I know so many, but.... (Hindi exchanges)
Prabhupāda: ...maybe Paris. Maybe Nairobi. Then either Los Angeles or to India.
Sumati Morarjee: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi), because whatever that Māyāpur.... You have been in Nava, Navadvīpa?
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have been to Navadvīpa, Māyāpur, Śāntipura, then that Katwa, all those places I have visited.
Prabhupāda: So, Māyāpur we are constructing a big temple. And Vṛndāvana also. So, for maintenance of the temple perpetually, I want to purchase some property in Los Angeles, because here, Los Angeles, property gets nice income.
Sumati Morarjee: Is it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sumati Morarjee: How?
Prabhupāda: Los Angeles.
Sumati Morarjee: Good income?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because any ordinary room is about a hundred twenty-five dollars. So a hundred twenty-five dollars in our Indian exchange is about thousand rupees. So, thousand rupees, two rooms, who will pay in India?
Prabhupāda: (laughter) No one will pay. So then therefore I thought that to purchase one, two house, so that as Vṛndāvana property, because I am maintaining now the whole institution by begging. But when Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa deities are there, there is no income.
Sumati Morarjee: No, there won't be any ... both places...
Prabhupāda: In Bombay we can go to you..."Mataji we have no more money, please give me some."
Sumati Morarjee: No, that is different, but these things...
Prabhupāda: Yes, so, but Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa I want to make some provision. So I'm negotiating for that. This is one business. So Bombay.... (Hindi exchanges) Huh?
Sumati Morarjee: Of course, you won't get so much rent for London properties. They're also very much appreciated.
Prabhupāda: London property is very costly.
Sumati Morarjee: Oh very costly, but they're day by day, appreciating.
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Devotee: Doubled, in one year it's doubled.
Sumati Morarjee: No, no. 40 percent has gone up in a year's time, on one property.
Prabhupāda: Because the Indians are coming.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, they'll (indistinct) all the property.
Prabhupāda: (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So, what is the use of keeping Pakistan? Let it, let, let, let them have another.
Sumati Morarjee: I know, I know, but what about this Bangladesh also, you'll have to.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Sumati Morarjee: Do something, because I met so many people from Bangladesh they were completely subverting our culture.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Devotee: That's, we're going there next month. Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. I think you remember him.
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, very well.
Devotee: He's got his visa now, he's taking a party there, to Bangladesh.
Sumati Morarjee: Very good, but I hope they put, don't put you somewhere. That's not a very...
Prabhupāda: Ah, reliable, I say. You have your office in Dacca?
Sumati Morarjee: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Dacca? No?
Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, our office used to be. We had property. We have lost about twenty-six lakhs of rupees with both sides of Pakistan.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you had to close your office?
Sumati Morarjee: We had our own (indistinct), our own house in Chittagong, then our offices, then (indistinct), and our manager he was interned, and we (indistinct) in Karachi also.
Prabhupāda: Ah.
Sumati Morarjee: We had big property in Karachi.
Prabhupāda: So, so they cannot return.
Sumati Morarjee: They're not returning anything. With great difficulty. I put up a fight with the British to get back my ship with that interned one passenger.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that scrap I saw when I was going.
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Ian Polsen: I've just been promoted to deal with Value Added Tax, and I will go up from 1,400 pounds a year to 1,700 or 1,800 pounds a year. I'm not sure of my new salary because I'm starting on Monday.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That means our 150 pounds per month?
Ian Polsen: Less the tax.
Devotee: About 4,500 a year, dollars.
Ian Polsen: Do you deal in percentages?
Prabhupāda: Anything which can be engaged in the service of the Lord should not be given up. This is our philosophy. Should not be given up. We do not say, "Oh, money is material. I do not touch. My hand becomes turned up." No. We don't say all these nonsense philosophy. (laughs) We know that money, lakṣmī, is Kṛṣṇa's property, so it should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. Why money should not be touched? Money is Kṛṣṇa's. It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent." But this philosophy Kṛṣṇa immediately kicked out. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. "Oh, why you are talking nonsense like this?" That was His answer. (laughs) Next He says, aśocyān anvaśocas tvam prajñā-vādāṁś ca (BG 2.11), "You are talking just like a very learned man, but this kind of lamentation is not done by any learned. That means you are fool number one." (laughter) So after understanding Bhagavad-gītā he agreed to fight. "Yes. I shall fight." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Just like you are ambassador, representative of USA, so you are attractive. So this attractiveness you have got. Sometimes I have also got. Somebody comes to me, "Let me see this Swami speak," you see. So this attractiveness everyone possesses. But God means who has got all the attractiveness in full. That is God. You may be very rich, but you cannot say that "I am the richest person in the world." That is not possible. But God can say "I am the richest person in the whole creation." Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He says, "I am the proprietor of everything." Just like in America, before the Europeans migrated to America, the land was there. It belonged to somebody. Now you are claiming you are proprietor. Say after five hundred years or something somebody may come. The land is there, we come here for the time being and claim "It is my property." But actually who is the proprietor? Actually God is the proprietor. Therefore anything produced out of the land, that is also property of God. Just like if you have got a gold mine in your country. So I am not.... India will not go to claim that "It is my property." It is your property, because it is produced with your land. So if the whole land, whole sky, whole air, whole light, everything belongs to God, then where is your proprietorship? It is stated, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ buddhiḥ mano eva (BG 7.4). Now, nobody can say "The sky is my property," but there must be some proprietor of the sky. What do you think? If everything has got a proprietor, everything is made of these five elements—sky, water, air, earth....
Prabhupāda: Fire, mind, intelligence, ego. These eight elements. Kṛṣṇa says that "They are my energies." The things which are made by Kṛṣṇa's energy, how you can claim your property? Suppose a carpenter comes, you give him money to prepare some chair. The money is your energy. Now when the chair is prepared, he cannot claim that "I have prepared this chair. It is my property." No. It has been made with my energy; therefore it is my property. So if you make analysis of this whole cosmic situation you will find that everything is made out of the energy of God. Then how you can claim that "I am proprietor"? This is false. This is called māyā. Just like we have seen in Calcutta when there was a (indistinct) during the transition state. Britishers are going on. There was a great Hindu-Muslim riot. Now they fought, Hindus and Muslims, and they died. After death, they're lying piles of dead body. No more Hindu and Muslim. It is simply lump of matter. But because they got a type of body, a type of mental situation, consciousness, they fought with one another, and then after death, no more claiming "Hindu" and "Muslim." This is called illusion. "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that"—these are all designation. Really what I am? I am pure soul, part and parcel of God. That is my identity.
Prabhupāda: Now in Vṛndāvana here is one temple... There is likely that they cannot (indistinct for several minutes) Suppose everything is (indistinct). Therefore accepting (indistinct) how to manage. This is between ourself. Suppose if Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). In this temple also, I am making (indistinct) decision. (break) ...is not in favor of any of the parties. So if it also comes in our hands, it has to be (indistinct). Now, supposing you have got three, then how you shall manage? Simply taking over is no good. Because they are giving, means they cannot manage. That property is very valuable property, Bharatpur place. So they are thinking of giving it over to us because it is not being managed. (indistinct) position is here. So up to now we are strong. But if our, what is called, cooperation becomes slack, then our temple also the same thing will be. That, the (indistinct) that I am staying here for the last ten or twelve years and paying, but the property belongs to the Deity. And there are (indistinct) sevaites. Sometimes somebody starts noting that you neglect sometimes somebody takes money in advance. So what is my position? (indistinct) the rentor may decide what is my position. Actually, in terms of the rentor, I am tenant for these two rooms, and that also. (indistinct) Of course, I have got many (indistinct). But it is sentiment.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all.
Prabhupāda: Whatever is done is done. Now, you try to correct others by behaving yourself. Otherwise, there is no need of keeping so many men. We have attempted in Vṛndāvana. A few men may remain here. That's all. Otherwise, it will be not very nice to attract when people are attracted by seeing your behavior. They are seeing that, "Oh, Europeans and Americans, they have got such nice Vaiṣṇavas." They are attracted on that point. But if we are not to the standard point, they will immediately accuse, "Oh, they are..." So that should be corrected. The same principle, āpani ācari prabhu jīvere, we should behave ourselves nicely, then teach others. Then it will be (indistinct). Another, this is general principle, now we have discussed, now we try to follow. Another thing that Keśi-ghāṭa affair. Shall we make further progress? I acquired that property (indistinct). What is your opinion? From the circumstances as that is now, because any temple, it must be nicely, very nicely managed, otherwise you cannot attract. Our Los Angeles temple we want to attract people. So it is so nicely managed, very nicely managed. You have seen. So unless, that means there must be sufficient bank balance. Such a big temple.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that: "I have taken from the nature."
Prabhupāda: Eh? Nature? That means you have taken from somebody. You have not created. You have stolen. Thief you are. And we say: "Yes, you have taken from the nature, but every property of nature, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Īśāvāsyam, it is all God's creation. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yes... If one does not perform yajña, he's a thief. Yajña means acknowledging that things have been taken from Kṛṣṇa. And we must satisfy Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, You have given so many things for our maintenance." This much acknowledgement Kṛṣṇa wants. That's all. Otherwise, what He can expect from you? What you are in His presence? Prasāda. Prasāda means acknowledging: "Kṛṣṇa, You have given us this foodstuff. So first of all You taste. Then we take." This much. Kṛṣṇa's not eating. He's not hungry. He's eating. Although He's not hungry, He can eat the whole world. Again produce it, as it is. That is Kṛṣṇa's power. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). Kṛṣṇa is so perfect, that you take from Kṛṣṇa, whole Kṛṣṇa's energy, still the original energy's there. That is conservation of energy.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: By investing, by, by finding out the different ways of..., they're called conveniences. So by producing these things makes much more comfortable.
Prabhupāda: Easier. Easier to die. They have invented the atomic. Very easy to kill. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa ... (pause) But, in, despite all these disadvantages, if the scientists bring in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then that is success. It will be success. The sea, without waves, does not look well. Without waves, when the sea's calm and quiet, it does not look well. What do you think? Eh?
Karandhara: It does not look well?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now with waves it looks beautiful.
Karandhara: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So that is the property of the ocean.
Prabhupāda: No, everything has got some quality and beauty. Just like Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says: nārīṇāṁ bhūṣaṇaṁ patiḥ. Woman, the personal beauty is not beauty. When she has got a husband, then she's beautiful. How scientific it is. All these girls in your country, without husband, they're all morose, unhappy. They have no fixity of husband. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he's also not good. And the one who takes up and says, "Whose coin is this?" Then he's good.
Prabhupāda: Yes, his service is better.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but how about the one who picks up and he doesn't find the owner of the coins but he offers to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, he must find out. Because there are so many men, some of them must have lost that. So so far Kṛṣṇa's property is concerned, everyone knows, "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." There is no need of finding out. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Just like everyone knows, "This is American state." Where is the difficulty to find out? That was an example, but so far things are concerned, we know that, as we know that this land belongs to the American state, similarly this is false. Actually, everything belongs to God. There is no difficulty to understand. You have not created this ocean. You have not created this land. You have created nothing. You are simply stealing. That is your business. So how you do not know that it belongs to God? Everyone should know. This is knowledge. If I create something, I must enjoy it. Rather, the Vedic injunction is that you do not enjoy anything which you cannot create. You do not enjoy anything which you cannot create.
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot enjoy anything. You have to accept everything as prasādam. First of all you take sanction from the proprietor. Then you he will give... That is your business. Just like if I want to use this land, I have to take permission from the government, that "I want this land. Give me permission." So when government gives you permission you can use. Otherwise you will be criminal. You cannot say, "Oh, there are so much land, let me encircle it with my fence and I live there." No. Immediately criminal. You cannot do anything as you like with this ocean. Can you do? No you have to take permission from the government. Just like the fishing boats, they have got government permission. Otherwise they cannot. Therefore in the Īśopaniṣad it is said, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). Tena tyaktena. "When it is sanctioned, when it is given to you, then you enjoy." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. "Do not touch anyone's property." This is Vedic injunction. So if everything belongs to God, how you can touch it without His permission? But they are rascals. They do not know who is God, where is God, how to take permission. They do not know. Therefore they become criminals. They are suffering. Encroaching upon God's property and therefore they are suffering. All these things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything belongs to God, and because we are sons of God, we can use the father's property. But not more than what I require. Just like in a family everything is father's property, and if you eat more, all the good things in the family, that is not allowed. You must take what the mother or the father gives you. That is your business. Similarly everything is God's property. Everyone, even the birds, beasts, everyone has right to use the father's property. Just like the birds. They will use. Just like they are picking up the small fishes. So as much they require, they are allowed, "Take it." But they are not making any stock for speculation. Man does that.
Prabhupāda: As soon as there is some good harvest, ah, immediately they... (break)... problem. If everyone only takes as much he requires, there is no problem in the world. But he wants to take more. Just like you Americans, you have covered so many thousands of miles. And you don't allow anyone. "No, you cannot enter. Here is gun." What is this nonsense? It is God's property. Why do you disallow others. Let them come. So there is no question of over-population. There are so much land in Australia, in Africa, here in America, that ten times of the present population can be provided. God has provided. But these rascals will not allow. So there is overpopulation in India, in China and other places, and there is problem. They are trying to occupy more land but you will not allow. Therefore war, there is war. So we create problems. Otherwise God has supplied us enough. You can use it; as much as you like you can use what you have... They are creating trouble and the scientists giving them, "Yes, I am giving you this chemical composition. You drop on the enemies' camp." This is scientific research, to impel the rascals. (laughter) The rascals, rogues, they are trying to usurp other's property, and the scientists helping them. That's all. If you help one murderer, if you help one thief, then you also become criminal. Is it not? So they are helping one another, all these thieves and rogues. Therefore there is so much trouble in the world. They are all criminals. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). One who does not recognize the proprietorship of the Lord, he is a thief. Find out, take statistics how many people recognizes God. Take statistic. Everyone will say, "Eh! What is God, nonsense." Everyone will say. Therefore they are in trouble.
Prabhupāda: Śuṣka, śuṣka means dry. Oh, it is material, I shall not touch. I shall not touch. Just like that rascal, Ramakrishna, if anyone wanted to give him some money (gesture). (laughter) How, he does not touch money. These rascals, why shall I not touch? Come on, you have got money, George Harrison, spend. Yes, come on, I shall take it, for Kṛṣṇa. We haven't come to this house for living very comfortably and enjoying. No, we have come here for Kṛṣṇa's service.
Haṁsadūta: This point is revolutionary in spiritual circles.
Prabhupāda: Because it is Kṛṣṇa's property. It is not my property, neither George's property. This is mistake. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So it must be utilized for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That king should be a representative of God. That is ideal king. But if he thinks that "This kingdom is my property, and let me enjoy for my sense enjoyment," then it is all gone. If he thinks himself as representative of God... Just like we think. Therefore we are after our disciples: "Do this, do that, do that, do that." We want to see that my disciples also become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, it is the king's duty to see that every citizen becomes God conscious. Then he is representative of God. That is the first duty. The division must be there, and the, it is the duty of the king to see that everyone is discharging according to his responsibility. That is king's duty. A brāhmaṇa is acting exactly like brāhmaṇa. The kṣatriya is acting exactly like kṣatriya. A vaiśya is... Like that. It is the duty of a king to see that nobody's unemployed, everyone is engaged in his own occupational duty. That is the... And they must feel security of life, property, anxiety. That is perfect king. Here, at the present moment, nobody is confident whether he'll live after an hour or... You see. Anyone can take your property and life, at any moment. There is no protection. There is no protection. And so far anxiety, there is no length and breadth. People are always full of anxieties. Unemployment. These things should not be there. No unemployment, no anxiety, no feelings of insecurity. And that is good government. Nowadays there are police force. But what is the use of this police force? You go on the street, somebody stabs you, what police can do? If somebody takes away your money from your personal pocket, what the police can do? They'll take some note.
Śyāmasundara: This material world is like an aspect of God that we are attached to, but the God behind we don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our foolishness, that we do not know that behind this material cosmic manifestation, there is God. That information we get from Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That means this cosmic manifestation is creation of God. The vast water is created by God. The vast land is created by God. Everything is created by God. Do you believe that?
David Wynne: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. So if everything is created by God, then, when you create something, is it your property or God's property?
David Wynne: Oh, God's.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
David Wynne: Yes. But it feels like it when one creates it. One's surprised and didn't know what it was going to be like and cannot claim it.
Prabhupāda: No. God supplies the ingredients. That just like you are working on stone. So who has supplied the stone?
David Wynne: Yes, this I can understand because it's...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you are working on the stone with your intelligence, but who has supplied you the intelligence? You are working with your hand, but who has supplied you the hand? In this way, if we consider that everything belongs to God; therefore the result must be given to God. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: So you have got your own house there, Dehra Dun?
Guest (3): No, I tried to buy house, and I made deposit and everything. I wanted to buy the house. Then I came to England to raise the money. I raised the money and went back to India. And by the time I went back, there were four litigations going on on the house.
Prabhupāda: Oh... (laughter)
Guest (1): "I got this right on this house."
Guest (3): There were four litigations going on on that house, and, you know, they all wanted the possession of the empty, vacant part of that house. I mean it was part possession property. They all wanted possession of the vacant part.
Prabhupāda: Then what happened?
Guest (3): So anyway, fortunately, the vendor also told me he doesn't want to sell. I said "Thanks to God." So he gave me the money back...
Prabhupāda: So you returned. That's nice.
Prabhupāda: So you can distribute this prasāda, little bit. (break)
Guest (1): Yes. It is grace of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes, after all, Kṛṣṇa's property. But it has come through George... (laughter)
Guest (1): He is lucky person.
Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.
Śyāmasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Śyāmasundara: What do we mean by renunciation?
Prabhupāda: Renunciation, practically, there is no question of renunciation. According to our philosophy... Just like father and the son. So son cannot renounce father's protection or the property. Some way or other, he has to take advantage of it. But... Therefore renunciation means that as every son has got a right on the property of the father, similarly, every living entity has got right to live at the cost of God. But they should not encroach upon others' right. That is renunciation.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But at the present moment, they are encroaching upon others' right. And that is sinful, and he's punishable. Just like every living entity has got the right to live at the cost of God. But the human being is interfering with the rights of living of the animals. They have got the right. As human being has got the right to live...
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. I agree.
Prabhupāda: There is one moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great minister during the time of Mahārāja Candragupta. So he was honorary Prime Minister in the empire. So he has a book of moral instruction. So he says in that moral instruction, who is a learned man. So he gives the description of a learned man, that: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Mātṛvat. "Just treat all other women except your wife as your mother." Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Loṣṭa means as there are so many pebbles lying on the street, you don't care for it, similarly, others' property, others' money you should treat just like these pebbles lying on the street or the garbage lying on the street. Don't touch it. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. And treat all living entities as you want to be treated. If one has got these three qualifications, he is learned man. He does not say, one who has got this BAC, DAC degrees, and so on, so on, so on. No. The result of his education is to be seen by three manifestations: treating all women as mother; treating others' money, property, as garbage, as rubbish in the street; and treating all living entities as you want to be treated yourself. If one has attained these three development of knowledge, he is learned. There is no question of literary education. Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. So if we covet other's wife, if we eat meat, if we indulge in intoxication, if we indulge in gambling, we are polluting the whole society. So how we can expect purification unless we accept these principles? You cannot ignite fire, at the same time pour water on it.
Bhagavān: He should not starve is the point.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: He should not be allowed to go hungry.
Prabhupāda: Even a snake is there, he should not also starve. He must have food. We do not support such rascal philosophy that you give food to the man, and send the animals to the slaughterhouse. We do not support this rascaldom, our philosophy is: as human being has got the right to take share of God's property and live, similarly all other living entities, they have got right.
Reporter: Have you a point of view about the demographic problem and the problem of (French)?
Yogeśvara: Do we have a viewpoint on contraception?
Prabhupāda: That is most sinful activity. Because a child is coming to live at the expense of God's property, and the rascal father is thinking of overpopulation.
Prabhupāda: Everything... In this table, whatever is there, it is created. The table is created. The light is created. Everything is created by somebody. So how I can deny this fact, that somebody has created the whole universe? If you say, "It has comes automatically, dropped," that is rascaldom. It must be accepted somebody has created. So who is that somebody? You have not created. The Americans have not created, the Englishmen have not created, or I have created, you have created, but we can understand that somebody has created. So who will be the proprietor? I shall be proprietor or the creator shall be proprietor? Who shall be the proprietor?
Dr. Inger: Creator. Of course.
Prabhupāda: Creator. So why you are claiming other's property as "my own"? "This is my country. This is my country." And we are so rascal and we are making United Nation.
Dr. Inger: It doesn't belong to anyone.
Prabhupāda: It doesn't belong to anyone. And these rascals are claiming, "This is my. This is my, this is my flag. This is..." Therefore they are all cheaters. And they are combining and trying to cheat other that "How much I can cheat you." "I am American. How much I can cheat you, Russian." Russian thinking, "Yes, I am also cheater. How much I can cheat you." This is going on, cheaters and cheated. And they are wasting their time. Is that civilization, to become cheater and cheated and waste our time in some so-called conferences? Is that civilization, do you think?
Dr. Inger: No. Not at all, but that's exactly as you say.
Prabhupāda: Anyone lives in that way, that "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this distressed condition of life. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I would have been put into more severe condition of life, but He is a little, giving me little pain. So I must be very much obliged to Kṛṣṇa that He's so kind upon me." So if one lives like that, mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk, he has got the claim to become liberated. Just like a son has got the right to claim the property of father, similarly, one who lives like this, he has the claim to become liberated. Mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk. That is... This is Bhāgavata's statement. And similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā, also it is stated... Sit down. Yes. Why you are late? We have talked so many things.
Prabhupāda: We must see that things are going on nicely, according to the plan of God. That is our duty. The rascal may say like that. But we cannot stop there. So this is a serious movement, and you should take very seriously from all angles of vision. (pause) Just like these Africans, they stopped my entrance. These rascals are thinking that Africa belongs to them. It is God's property. These usurpers, these rogues and thieves, a few Africans, they are thinking, "It is our property." Huge state, huge land, huge food products can be produced there and utilized for the whole human society. But they are thinking, "It is my property. We shall not allow." So many wrong things are going on in the name of nationalism, in the name of scientific advancement, and people are suffering. How we can see that? Everybody has bluffed so long. Now we have to stop them. This is our movement.
Prabhupāda: And Veda, Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. Veda, this word, Sanskrit word, it means perfect knowledge. Otherwise, there is no way to have perfect knowledge. There must be some source of perfect knowledge. That is Veda. For example, we... Just like cow dung. Cow dung is the stool of an animal. So in the Vedic principle, if you touch the stool of an animal, even your own stool, you become impure, you have to take bath. But the Vedas says, "The stool of cow is pure." And we accept that because Vedic injunction. And if you analyze, it is full of antiseptic properties, although it is stool. So by argument, one will say, "How is that? Sometimes you say that stool is impure, and again you say this stool is pure." But that is fact. Similarly, if we accept Vedic injunction, we save so much time for so-called research work. That is the standard knowledge. So every knowledge is there in the Vedas. There are so many Vedas. Even for our ordinary dealings, just like Āyur-veda. Āyur-veda means medical science. Similarly, Dhanur-veda, military science. Similarly, Jyotir-veda, jyotis, the astronomical science.
Prabhupāda: They're United Nation, first of all let us settle. They are fighting: "I'm Arabian," "I'm Indian," "I'm American," "I'm Englishman..." "All right, let us settle actually to whom this planet belongs." They cannot do that, because all of them are thieves. None of them will agree that it belongs to God. The real fact, that they will not agree. Then how there can be peace? Because they're all cheaters. They want to cheat God. God's property, they're claiming "ours." All thieves and rogues, so how there can be any settlement? There cannot be any settlement.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that proprietor stage is relative.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is relative. Relative means you are servant. You must satisfy by your service to the proprietor and get your nice salary and be happy. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever He gives, you accept and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. You don't try to encroach upon others. You receive from the proprietor your emolution (emolument?) or your reward and be happy. That is Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything is God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world. "No, why you are slaughtering other living entities?" "I don't care. I want to eat. That's all." So you have to pay for that. You cannot put others into difficulty because God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you do whimsically whatever you like. So you are putting yourself in difficulty. This is the position.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Russia is useless.
Bali Mardana: Oh, it's too cold.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for the Russians. But there are so many other islands like this.
Sudāmā: Tahiti.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Sudāmā: Tahiti. Also is... Below here.
Bali Mardana: There are thousands of islands in the Pacific.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Let them come and live here. Produce foodstuffs, have cows, fruits, flowers, live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; but they won't allow. Americans, yes, they have got so much land. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Whatever is Kṛṣṇa's property, you can... You are Kṛṣṇa's son; you can utilize it. But one son is prohibiting, "No, no, you cannot enter here." This is the problem. The so-called nationalism is dangerous. Just see how nice flowers, fruits, plant. Everything is there, complete.
- pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ
- pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate
- pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya
- pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate
- (Iso Invocation)
There is no question of overpopulation at all. These rascals have created like that. Hare Kṛṣṇa. They're coming from our temple?
Sudāmā: Yes. Jayaśrī is here also.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (japa) Thank you. Jayaśrī joined when I first came here?
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Feeling all right? I think you joined when I first came here?
Jayaśrī: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...bhāvam eka-stham anupaśyati, tata eva ca vistāraṁ brahma sampadyate tadā (BG 13.31).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because... Just these elements, material elements, bhūta, they are Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore one who knows Kṛṣṇa, he does not take anything as material. Because it is Kṛṣṇa's energy. So Kṛṣṇa's energy means... What is called?
Dr. Shah: Property.
Prabhupāda: No, there is a verse. Śakti-śaktimator abhedaḥ. Abhedaḥ. Śakti means energy, and the śaktimān... That... śaktimān is called śaktimat. So because it comes from the śaktimān, śaktimān, the all spirit, therefore those who are very advanced devotees, for, in their vision, there is nothing material.
Chandobhai: There is no separation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is nothing. Abheda. Because it is admitted that bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. So this is śakti. And śaktimat is Kṛṣṇa. So when it is emanating from Kṛṣṇa... Therefore it is called inferior. Inferior. Inferior. He does not say...
Gargamuni: Yes. In Māyāpura, when I bring over the karatālas, they are very heavy, two hundred sets of karatālas. So the boatmen say, "Sona, sona." They are thinking it is gold, the karatālas.
Prabhupāda: Everyone... Even government... In the parliament the question was raised, "Wherefrom they get money fabulously?" These men, in our country, they may be fools. In your country also, Los Angeles, I mean, neighboring storekeepers, they are wonderful, that "These people do not work and they have got so many cars and live so nicely?" (laughing) They inquire that "How do we get all these things?" They actually see that they are not ordinary working. They have no working or bank balance or business. Still, they have got so many cars and they eat nicely and they maintain such a nice house. And six, seven house they have purchasing. The realtors, they also know in America that we are very rich men. As soon as there is some property, they offer, because they know that we are very rich men. Because we have purchased some properties, so all the realtors, they have taken it for granted that we have got immense money. Here also, the members are thinking like that, that "Swamiji has got immense money."
Richard Webster: But some things have improved.
Prabhupāda: Many countries... Especially we are Indian. We have seen in India. Nowadays there is no eatables. The government cannot supply food, failure, the problem which is not even amongst the beasts and birds. The birds and beasts, they have no such problem. They are freely living, jumping from one tree to another, because they know there is no problem of eating. And human society, there is problem of eating. What is the advancement? And there is enough place for producing food. I have seen Africa, Australia. Enough place. If the foodstuff is produced there, ten times of the population can be well fed. But they are: "Don't enter. Don't come here." The Africans will say to the Indians, "Don't come here. Go out." What is this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. We say, "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and utilize Kṛṣṇa's property." This is the best philosophy. But the so-called politicians and leaders, they are saying "No, you cannot enter here," immigration. America has got enough place to produce food. But they will, although they have gone to the United Nation, UNESCO, they could not find out any solution. Although there is possibility of producing ten times of the requisites of the whole population of the world, they will not allow. They will not allow.
Bhagavān: Actually, they like to work hard.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they like to work hard and they want good protection. That is their happiness. Even still in Africa, the servants, domestic servants, Africans, I have seen in Indian family, they are very happy. They are very happy, and the master also takes care of them. They want to eat sumptuously, and that's all. They have no other ambition. They don't want any motorcar or like this, no. And they work very nicely, domestic work, very clean. But sometimes they steal. That is their habit. My father used to say, "If you do not allow the servants to steal, so don't keep." Don't keep servants. "A servant who does not steal, he is not a gentleman. He must steal."
Bhagavān: He must steal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their satisfaction. So you must allow them. In old zamindar family, they will pay the manager five rupees per month, salary, and allow them to steal. That was simply a token salary that "You are servant." And the manager was so clever, he would steal, but he would not spoil the property of the master. He will manage very nicely that he will extra, make extra income and steal. The master will not be touched. Master will be happy. Master knows that "I am paying him five rupees. That is nothing." And he is constructing big building, getting his sons and daughters married very luxuriantly. Master is... Even fifty years before, there was a zamindar, Raja Manindra Candranandi. He was very magnanimous man, making various charities. So if somebody will complain, "Sir, your this servant is stealing like this," he would be very angry. The man who complains, he will be angry upon him, "Why do you come and complain?" He will not accept any complaint. Rather, he will be angry with the man who complains.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, they have the philosophy that, generally when we ask them, that "God created the world for us to enjoy." That is what the Christian generally says, that "The world is made for us to enjoy."
Prabhupāda: But enjoy does not mean that you enjoy sinfully. Did God give that document, that "You enjoy as you like, sinfully." Enjoy. There is prescription. You enjoy to the prescription. God says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam (ISO 1). You simply enjoy what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon other's property. This is God's injunction. You enjoy. As human being, you enjoy life. You have got food grains, fruits, flowers, milk. Enjoy life. Offer to Kṛṣṇa. Enjoy life. Why should you kill animal? That is God's... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. He says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Why do you go to kill animals? That is not enjoyment. That means you suffer, therefore you are suffering. You are creating suffering. So this man is at least informed that they have no brain.
Guru-gaurāṅga: If the people here are so sinful, how is it that they have so many nice facilities? It will go away soon, very soon.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Just cooperate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Let us become obedient to Kṛṣṇa, and because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa, let us enjoy the property of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."
Yogeśvara: He says for Protestants especially, there is a feeling that to think that we can become purified of our sins by following some formulary, that is a kind of false pride, that actually to become free...
Prabhupāda: Then why Christ recommend, "Thou shall not kill. Thou shall not covet. Thou shall not do this. Thou shall not..."? They are all false thing? Now let us talk of knowledge. We have talked so many outside knowledge. What is the real knowledge? The real knowledge is that everything is the property of God. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). No land belongs either to the Americans or to the Swiss people or to the Indian people or to German people. No. Everything belongs to God. And all living entities are the sons of God. So everything produced out of God's land, either on the land or in the sky or anywhere, it is God's property, and all the sons, they have the right to share. So there is no scarcity in the God's kingdom. Simply due to our mismanagement we have created so much trouble. If we accept God as the center and all living entities sons of God, then we can actually live very peacefully in God consciousness. Therefore this is the recommendation, how we can live very peacefully, all of us, both men and animal and everyone. That is said here. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni.
Prabhupāda: Cloth. Then comes coat or shirt or so many things. So cotton is everywhere. Similarly, the spiritual energy is everywhere, but it is transformed by different processes. Therefore the Vedic injunction is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman. Our philosophy is that everything being Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's service. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The property is Kṛṣṇa's. By Kṛṣṇa's energy, everything has come into existence. Therefore everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Therefore everything should be employed for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction, for His pleasure. Suppose you create something... You create some building, you create some family, you create some... So many things. You want to enjoy it. Otherwise, why you create? Why you take the responsibility of a family? For your enjoyment. Otherwise who takes care of the family? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person. He has created us, Kṛṣṇa's family. We also address Kṛṣṇa, "O Father, give us our daily bread." And He's actually giving us bread. Not only us, to all the living entities. So it is a big family, and Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer. So we should all be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Bhagavān: You were telling us one time that in India, if a person has a mango orchard, you can come in if you're hungry and eat, but you cannot take any with you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, if you have got a garden, somebody says, "I want to eat some fruits." "Yes, come on. Take as much fruit as you like." But you cannot take it away. Any number of men can come and eat. They even do not prohibit the monkeys. "All right, let him come in. It is God's property." That is the system. That is mentioned in Bhāgavata. If the animals like monkeys, they come to your garden to eat, don't prohibit. Let him. He's also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Where he will eat if you prohibit? It is very practical. I have got another. This is told by my father. My father's elder brother was keeping a cloth shop. My father also was keeping a cloth shop. So it is in the village. So my uncle, what he would do, that before closing the shop, he'll bring one, what is called...?
Bhagavān: A bowl?
Prabhupāda: Bowl, big bowl. Or it is... What do you call, where you keep water?
Bhagavān: Pot.
Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes.
French Devotee (2): It's a new building.
French Devotee (1): It's new. It's not hundred years old. It's called Marine Museum, Museum of the Marines.
Paramahaṁsa: It's a museum for exhibitions.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. The man who created, he's kicked out. "Get out!" What did he do? "I have created this thing. I must enjoy." Why he's kicked out? Why?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Because it is actually not his property.
Prabhupāda: What is the answer? Why you are kicked out? Answer somebody.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: It's just like this body.
Bhagavān: He's not the real proprietor.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?
Prabhupāda: ..."Made in London," and sell it fifteen times higher than the Germans. This was their business. And that was the cause of... Is it not? Those who have studied history... This is the cause. So all this nonsense thing can be solved if we take it: "This is Kṛṣṇa's property." And if you know something, you are manufac..., that's all right. You do it. I do something else. Or even if I do it, where is the cause of fighting? Because they do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is our point, that if we understand, every one of us realize that we are all servant of God or sons of God, that everything belongs to God, so we can use our father's property for our maintenance as much as we require, not more than that, so if we think like that, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and there will be no more war, everything peaceful.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes that is required. There must be determination, and whatever knowledge you get, that must be for practical use. Now, just like in the Bhagavad-gītā... Shall I speak? That he says that the proprietor of the body is within the body. Now, you make your thoughts working on this, that what is that proprietor? And you find that actually this body is not the proprietor, but body is the property, the proprietor is within the body. Then your knowledge is perfect. Then your thoughts, your reasoning... You accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa that the proprietor of the body is within the body. That is knowledge, perfect knowledge. What Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfect, but you corroborate with your reason, with your experimental knowledge, and you will find that is perfect. Then it is perfect.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He said first of all that he asked you to give evidence, but that you did not. You said that you'd have evidence, but you did not give it.
Prabhupāda: Here is evidence. I have said that Kṛṣṇa says the proprietor lives within the body. Now you just try to understand and you will find that yes, this body is not the... This is a property. The proprietor is within. That is perfect knowledge. Just like a big mill going on. But if somebody does not find out the proprietor, then does it mean that there is no proprietor?
Professor: I am the owner of my own self.
Prabhupāda: You are the not owner, but you are occupier.
Hṛdayānanda: So that's like a new light that you have given. I noticed in your lectures that you were always saying that these things were art. It took a while for me to understand it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nothing belongs to you. Why should you claim it is yours? They are claiming North America "ours," South America "ours." So how it became yours? It was already there, and you came as a immigrant, and it becomes yours? (break) Karmīs, they are claiming, "It is our property." And the jñānīs, they are living that "This is mithyā," and give it up. Both of them in the wrong. It is created by somebody, how you can say mithyā, false? Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The whole cosmic manifestation is false." How it is false? And karmīs, they are claiming unnecessarily, "It is mine." Creator is different person, and he is claiming, "mine". That is also false.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...ages, Śrīla Prabhupāda, did the people, in order to get valuable minerals and gold and things like that, did they mine underneath the ground?
Prabhupāda: No. There was no need of coal. And the jewelries and stones were received from the sea-pearls, valuable stones from the hills.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So they didn't dig deep holes underneath the ground?
Prabhupāda: No. There was no need. The richest persons' property were ivory, gold, marble, valuable jewels, pearls, silk. This was luxury, not plastic. Now they have advanced, they have got plastic, no gold, no silver. Paper money and plastic utensils. This is advancement.
Brahmānanda: Do we consider ivory as something pure or impure?
Prabhupāda: No, pure.
Brahmānanda: It is pure.
Prabhupāda: I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?
Prabhupāda: No, GBC, practically does not hold any money.
Atreya Ṛṣi: No.
Prabhupāda: Then why you...?
Haṁsadūta: You can say, "Any monies or properties under my direction..."
Jayatīrtha: That's what it should say.
Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that?
Haṁsadūta: Under, under his direction. Any monies or properties under his direction.
Atreya Ṛṣi: That would be a separate oath. That would be a separate thing, Prabhupāda.
Haṁsadūta: Maybe that should just be left out because if we're going to have some legal document like an umbrella, then that will take care of all those things.
Atreya Ṛṣi: Well, that should be in the pledge, in the agenda.
Prabhupāda: No, no, GBC... Does GBC members deal with money?
Prabhupāda: So why he's claiming his money? Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: He says, "Because I work for it."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But money, what is the standard of money? First of all, just discuss this. What is the standard of money throughout the whole world?
Devotee (1): Work, labor, labor.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (1): Labor.
Pañcadraviḍa: Purchases...
Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is it necessary for people to leave the cities and live in our varṇāśrama situations in order to become happy?
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to leave anything, provided you understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not after leaving or accepting. We are not after this. We are after understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What... What shall I leave? Suppose if I leave city—I come here—still it is God's property. So what, what I leave? What I have got that I have to leave? Everything God's property. If you have something, then you can leave. But if you have nothing, what you will leave? It is another bogus. This is Māyāvādī theory. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Why jagan mithyā? If Brahman is satya, jagan is also satya. (break) ...means they are trying to possess, and the jñānīs are trying to leave—both of them rascals. Where is the question of possessing? Stealing. You... I want to possess, but that thing does not belong to me. Therefore it is stealing. And the jñānīs are trying to give up living. That is also not truth. But you haven't got anything, so what you are going to leave? So both are in ignorance, the karmīs and jñānīs, the yogis. Simply Kṛṣṇa conscious persons, they are in knowledge. Before your birth the land was there, the world was there. Everything is there. Now you came. Then how do you possess? Before your birth, things were there. How do you possess unless you steal and cheat? Hm? What is the answer?
Pañcadraviḍa: I have inherited it.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: They say that man inherits the property of his father, which is God.
Prabhupāda: That means you must obey your father. Otherwise you'll be kicked. (Laughter) You are so rascal that you don't feel obliged to your father who has given you so much things, so many things. You are such a rascal. Therefore you must be punished.
Prabhupāda: Here there are many adopted son. A rich man has no son. He adopts somebody, rascal, and he spends money like... There are so many instance. Squanders. He'll be satisfied after finishing... There are many instances. In our childhood, many you have heard, you have seen one, when the adopted son (indistinct) ...big property and he was not satisfied to squander all the money unless it became (indistinct) That I've seen. He had many cars and I saw him, he was drenched by water, rainfall, sitting in a rickshaw. Nobody cares for him. When he was rich, big, big men would come to see him, even Burdwan Mahārāja. Now I saw him that he was in Dharmatala, it was raining and he was sitting in a rickshaw. Nobody cares for him. And he was satisfied at that time after finishing the whole money. Otherwise hundreds and two hundred friends, there was very big house, bring, I mean to say, received as guests daily.
Prabhupāda: When a devotee is in trouble, he thinks that "I am suffering for my past deeds. (break) ...me." That is a devotee's attitude. "Let me do my business, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then he is sure. Such person is assured to come back. He doesn't care for all this suffering. He thinks, "I am suffering for my past deeds. That's all. Why shall I bother myself? Let me do my present duty, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is the first-class position. He is assured. In spite of all material difficulties, if he goes on with chanting, then his chance is first. That is stated. Dāya-bhāk. Dāya-bhāk means he inherits God's property as the son's inherits the father's property. Dāya-bhāk. So we should be callous with all these political, social... We should simply go on. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was callous. Family affairs, wife's responsibility, for mother's responsibility for... Nothing. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life. Even didn't care for anything, no responsibility. "My only business is chanting." That is... You preach for some time. Then you simply engage in chanting. Preaching means to make him strong, preaching, to become firmly convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is preaching. So when he is firmly convinced, then he can give up preaching and sit down and simply chant. Not in the beginning. That is imitation. He must be firmly convinced. So we have to study Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life.
Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Why is it that some people, when they hear about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they take it, and some do not. And still, after that, some of those who take it, they stay, and some who take it take it for some time and then they fail?
Prabhupāda: That is fortunate and unfortunate. Just like one inherits father's property. Many millions of dollars, and he has become a poor man by his misusing the money. Like that. He is unfortunate. He got the money, but he could not utilize it.
Amogha: Yeah. It explains it very clearly. That will clear up any misconception.
Prabhupāda: That law of gravity is a bogus theory. The... Sixteen hundred thousand miles... Sixteen hundred thousand miles below the sun is the Rāhu. They are going there.
Amogha: Rāhu. Seems like all the planets, they have that space interval of sixteen hundred thousand miles. Most of the sun...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Amogha: ...and then the moon and Venus. That two hundred thousand yojanas.
Prabhupāda: When the Rāhu happens to be between the two planets, sun and moon, there is eclipse.
Amogha: When the orbits intercross.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Amogha: Ketu is below Rāhu?
Prabhupāda: Ketu is not mentioned there.
Amogha: Oh. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...another part of Rāhu.
Amogha: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, here is a property for sale.
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Nice property. (break) ...only due to difference of time it appears different. (break) ...Vedic instruction. In the spiritual world or the material world the varieties are the same, but the spiritual world is light, and the material world is darkness. Same varieties, there also you will find the same man, woman, or their dealings, love, or gardens, everything you will... Like this, this is only imitation. So if you want to be happy, go there. Tamaso mā. This is the Vedic instruction. Don't remain in this dark region. Jyotir gama. Jyoti means light. Go there. That is the prerogative of the human form of life. Tamaso mā jyotir gama. (break)
Prabhupāda: Therefore He comes...
Jesuit: To save.
Prabhupāda: "Don't do wrong." That is love.
Jesuit: And if the person...
Prabhupāda: Therefore that is love.
Jesuit: And if the person rejects that love, does He still love him?
Prabhupāda: Yes, still love him. He's trying. God is situated in everyone's heart, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61).
Jesuit: God cannot change.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is friend always. He is sitting with the individual soul within the heart and giving him good advice that "You come to Me, you'll be happy." But he's not going. Therefore he's (indistinct). Still God is with him, "All right, let me see." Just like the father, he loves his son. He always gives him, "My dear son, why you are going out? Your father has got nice property, you live with me." But he'll not do, he'll go away and become hippie. What can be done?
Prabhupāda: Godlessness is one does not know what is God. And just like you know me. You have come to me. You know I am a person, I am talking, I have written so many books. This is knowing me. Similarly, one must know what is God, what is His feature, what does He do, what does He teach, what law He gives. This is knowing God. Simply to understand, "Oh, well, that is God. Let Him remain at His place, and let me do whatever I like," that is not understanding of God. You must know God just like you must know your father. If you are interested with your father's property, then you must know your father, who is your father.
Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."
Prabhupāda: Just like suppose this cushion. Wherefrom the wood has come? Has anybody produced wood? Who has produced? It is God's property. Rather, we have stolen God's property and claiming, "My property." Then Australia. The Englishmen came here, but is that the property of the Englishmen? It was there. America, it was there. And when everything will be finished, it will be there. In the middle we come and claim, "It is my property," and fight. Is it not? You are a barrister, you can judge better.
Prabhupāda: Originally, originally, everything belongs to God. So why we are claiming, "It is my property"? Suppose you have come here. You sit down for one hour, two hours, and if you claim, "It is my property," is that very good judgement? You have come from outside, you are allowed to sit down here for two hours, and if you claim, "This is my property..." Similarly, we come here. We take birth either in America or in Australia or in India and remain for fifty, sixty or hundred years, and why shall I claim, "It is my property"?
Guest 3: You don't claim it, I suppose. If you own property, what happens, I would have thought, is more that for a time you have got possession.
Prabhupāda: For a time you have got possession of the chair—that does not mean your property.
Guest 2: One gets attached.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Guest 2: One gets attached to the chair. I like this chair. It's a nice chair.
Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. You like, you sit down, and you go when it is finished. But how do you claim that it is your property?
Guest 2: Good-bye. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is called māyā. This is māyā. The philosophy of māyā, māyā means what is not. Mā-yā. Mā means not, yā means this. So māyā means the conclusion, as you have made, that is not. That is not the fact. So we are claiming, "America is our", "Australia is our", "India is our". Nothing our. Everything God's. The best conclusion is, "It is God's property. God has given us to live. Let us thank God, feel obliged to Him, and glorify Him." That is our vision. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You accept the real position, that nothing belongs to you, everything belongs to God. You also belong to God. Your body, yourself, everything belongs to God. This body is material body. That material energy, earth, water, air, fire—everything belongs to God. This sea belongs to God, water, vast water. You have not created, neither your forefather has created. So this body is made of earth, water, air, fire, five elements. So your, the body is also God's.
Prabhupāda: Use, you can use. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). That is the Vedic injunction. What is given to you, you use it. Just like one gentleman has got five sons. He gives one son, "This is your property. This is your property. This you can use." But the sons must acknowledge that "This is father's property. He has given us." Similarly, in the Vedic śāstra it is said that "Everything belongs to God, and whatever He has given to you, you can use. Don't encroach upon others."
Guest 1: But if He has given... You were saying that if He's given something to you and don't encroach upon others, but there are certain things that one person has or one group of persons have which, I think, truly can be said that...
Prabhupāda: And originally we have to accept. Everything belongs to God. Just like father and sons. The son must know, "The property is father's." That is the real knowledge. Now, "Whatever father has given me, I will use it. Why shall I encroach upon others, my other brother, which he has got from the father?" This is good sense. "Why shall I fight with my other brother? My father has given him this property to him, so let him use that, and whatever he has given me, let me use it. Why shall I encroach upon his property?" This is good sense.
Guest 1: I can understand when you say, "Don't encroach on other people's property." And I believe, if I understand you correctly, what you're saying is that if you have something, if someone's given you something and someone else wants to use it, then let him. I can understand that. But don't you get into the stage and can't you get to the stage at times that for some reason or other you don't want him to use it?
Prabhupāda: I don't want to use my thing?
Madhudviṣa: He's saying that if someone does not want, that you don't want someone to use what you have. If someone tries to forcibly take...
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing.
Prabhupāda: Now you have got the United Nations. Now, if they are sane men, they should pass resolution, "The whole world belongs to God, and we are all God's sons. So let us make now United States of the World." That can be easily done. If they can make United States of America, why not United States of the whole world?
Guest 2: I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, all problems. Now, suppose in India there is scarcity of foodstuff. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift—we are all sons—very nicely. Then the, all the problems solved. Now the difficulty is that we have made, "No, this is my property. We shall use it, nation." In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such conception. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national.
Guest 1: You're thinking more of an international world than a national world.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with that. I certainly don't.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we want to do: one God, one state, one scripture, and one activity. That is the ultimate end of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like we are from different countries. We don't think as nationalism, that "I am American," "I am Indian." No. We all think that "We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa." And they are working in that spirit. It is possible. If this idea is accepted in that United Nation, it can be done.
Guest 1: I think you must be very happy to see what's happened in Melbourne.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I am very happy. This house is quite suitable for our purpose.
Guest 1: They looked very hard and for a long time.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest 1: And they had a lot of difficulty. This is one of the things that I imagine, you know, the story that the Catholic Church, Roman Catholic Church owned this property. And it was almost by devious means that it was acquired.
Prabhupāda: They did not want to give us?
Guest 1: He didn't want to sell direct, like that. Because that beautiful building across there, I think you saw photos...
Amogha: The convent. Śrīla Prabhupāda went through the convent.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Guru kṛpā: Private property .
Prabhupāda: Everything is private, nobody..., nothing belongs to God. This is their idea. (break)
Guru kṛpā: ...mountain?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the timiṅgila, they are as big as this mountain.
Guru kṛpā: I wouldn't want to meet one of those.
Prabhupāda: You can go, and you will find in his belly. (break) You think simply small fishes are there? As the ocean is big, similarly, very, very big fishes are there. (break) ...up. Remain deep in the water. (break)
Guru kṛpā: A very dark condition.
Devotee (1): Yes, we have jackfruit. Big fruit.
Bali-mardana: They do not know how to eat it mostly.
Prabhupāda: Bring. I shall show you. (laughter) Yes.
Bali-mardana: I have seen them selling sometime in private market, but I don't know if we can get it in the public market.
Devotee (1): I've never seen it in a public market.
Bali-mardana: They do... (break) ...sell it. (break)
Prabhupāda: You can have some jackfruit tree.
Devotee (1): On the land, on the property. Okay.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (break) ...nutritive and very sweet.
Devotee (1): Very sweet.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. When it is ripe, it is very sweet. And when it is not ripe, it is called "vegetable meat."
Devotee: "Tree goat."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prepare, it is better than meat.
Bali-mardana: Yes, and to put stool on the sidewalk. Wherever there is dogs, there is stool all over the sidewalk.
Prabhupāda: That is the modern civilization. They are avoiding cow dung and associating dog stool. (laughs) This is modern... Cow dung is so beneficial. That they are avoiding. And they are associating dog stool. The dog mentality. The master and the servant, and the, er, dog, both of them watching. The master writes by signboard. What is that? "Keep away. Private property." And the animal also making, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Both of them are dogs. He is making "Gow! Gow!" by signboard, and he is doing it as nature, but both of them are dogs. One is two-legged dog, another is four-legged dog.
Dr. Gerson: Oh, it is unsuccessful. Yes. I meet many people in the course of my work that are very unhappy because of the frustrations that they experience.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me. There is no question of becoming friend because everyone is selfish. He wants his personal benefit, so how he can become other's friend? This is false. By false pretension, he is occupying big, big post and taking money for his sense gratification. That's all. This is material world.
Prabhupāda: Although the bhaktas are meant for going back to home, back to Godhead, but they don't care for it. "Whether I shall go back to home, back to Godhead, it doesn't matter. I must serve Kṛṣṇa. That's all." That is bhakta. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam: (Brs. 1.1.11) no other desire. They want to see Kṛṣṇa happy. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa is happy, they are happy, bas. They remain in the hell, it doesn't matter. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). Those who are devotees, they are not afraid of going to hell. They are prepared going to hell, "All right, I shall go to hell and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finished. I want to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I can do it anywhere. I can do it in this corner. I can do in this building. I can do it in the airplane. I can do it in the hell. I can do it India. I can do it in Los Angeles, anywhere. It doesn't matter what I am or what is my position. I may simply go on chanting. That's all." This is devotee. Therefore he's happy. So happiness is meant for the devotees, not, neither for the karmīs, for the jñānīs, or the yogis. It is the property of the devotees. Just like these devotees are chanting very happily. They are not expecting anything. They are happy by chanting. That's all. But Kṛṣṇa is unhappy if his devotees are not properly maintained.
John Mize: That the purpose of the human existence is to improve it's moral nature, to reunite ultimately with God, to be pleasing to God. So it's similar in that sense. He apparently disagrees on the origin...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is sattva-guṇa. Good character means sattva-guṇa, to become brāhmaṇa and then love God. This is Vedic civilization.
Jayatīrtha: Does he make any description of God? Any explanation?
John Mize: His thesis is that God is an intelligent moral force. But he avoided anthropomorphism by not projecting such properties as anger onto God. But he recognized personality in God. God is a moral intelligence and powerful.
Prabhupāda: So to become angry, that is also qualification of God, to become angry.
John Mize: Is...?
Prabhupāda: To become angry is also qualification of God.
John Mize: I don't understand what you last said. To be angry is...
Bahulāśva: A quality of God. To become angry is a quality of God.
Prabhupāda: Because unless there is anger in God, how there is anger in me? But we, as we misuse our independence, we misuse our anger. And God does not misuse his independence; He does not misuse His anger. But the anger quality is there. Otherwise, how I have got anger? This is the Vedānta philosophy. Janmādyasya yataḥ: "Everything is emanating from the Supreme." So if the anger is there, it must be there.
Dr. Wolf: Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the tenant can be easily evicted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Evicted. At that time he knows the owner. (laughter) When he is kicked out. That is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Those who are not believing in God, to them God will come one day as death, "Now believe Me. Get out!" Finished. All your pride finished. Your pride, your property, your family, your bank balance, your skyscraper building—all taken away. "Finished. Get out." This is God. Now understand God? To believe or not believe, God will come one day. He will take you, take your everything, and "Get out!" That is God. You believe or not believe. It doesn't matter. The same example, the tenant may not believe the landlord, but when the landlord will come with court's order, "Get out," then you have to go out. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "Those who are not believer in God, to them I come as death and take away everything, finished." That one has to believe, "Yes, as sure as death." Then God is sure. You may challenge so long you have got little life for a few years, (laughter) but God will come and drive you away from your present pride, prestigious position, "Get out." So unless one is madman, he cannot say, "There is no God." Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is a madman.
Viśakha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they will accuse us of being parasites.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not parasite. Your master. How do you say parasite? I am not going to beg from you. Parasites?
Brahmānanda: Parasite lives off another.
Prabhupāda: No, parasites means if I take others' property, others'. If I enjoy others'..., that is parasite. But we are not enjoying others' property. We are enjoying our father's property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor. Why do you say parasite? And we are good children of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't work, I shall give you everything." (laughter) Actually, Kṛṣṇa says that, that "Why you are working so hard?" Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām...: (BG 18.66) "You just under Me, I shall give you protection, whatever you want." And we are getting everything. Why parasite? (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...received in Switzerland, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that man said, "What if everyone became like you devotees?" He was worried that the economy would collapse, he said, if everyone took to this.
Prabhupāda: Well, at least he will not take, and the economy will go on. There will be a class of men like him. They will never take. So there is no problem. Your economy will go on. (laughter) (break) ...the prisoners become free, how the prison house will go on? Is that very nice question? What is the use of prison house? For the criminals? (break) ...thinking in that way, that "We are giving up meat, and the slaughterhouse proprietors, they are sorry. Then how our business will go on?" As if that is a very nice business. The sooner you close that business, it is good for you. But he is thinking "How my business will go on? If all these people give up meat-eating, then how this slaughterhouse will go on?" That is the logic. And our logic is the sooner you close this slaughterhouse, the better for you. This is our logic. (to devotee:) Which way? (break) ...liquor shop, the breweries, they are worried, "How business will go on. They are giving up." Cigarette factory. They will be sorry.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, that's... Our treatment is for the diseased person. So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man. Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as a poor man's hospital or rich man's. Hospital is hospital. And everyone being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not diseased. Although he is diseased number one, but he thinks that he is not diseased. That is the difficulty of the rich man. But we are thinking everyone is diseased. And you know better than me being police. There are criminality amongst rich men and poor men alike.
Lt. Mozee: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: So our process is to cleanse the heart, not the opulence or poverty. No, that is not our... To cleanse the heart. If the poor man is cleansed in his heart he will not touch anybody's property. I heard that King, Emperor Edward VII, his habit was to steal.
Lt. Mozee: Yes, he was a kleptomaniac. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well.
Sudāmā: New York is worse than jungle.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is called an asphalt jungle.
Prabhupāda: After all, they are human being. Therefore we have collected some nice souls. (break) If you can go to the jungle, that is no hindrance, but let us take the opportunity of the civilized nations, preach them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading the whole civilization. If they are convinced, it will be great benefit to the human race. (break) Also my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go to the western country." If he had said that "You go to the jungle," I would have gone. (break) ...preacher, either the jungle or the city is the same. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ na kutaścana bibhayati. One who is devotee of the Lord, he does not make any discrimination that "This is jungle and this is city." Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ (SB 6.17.28). For them, everywhere, Kṛṣṇa's property. So where Kṛṣṇa asks him to go and serve, he will go. That's all. (break)
Prabhupāda: What are the formalities?
Śrī Govinda: There's been some delay in the approval on the building due to different building violations and we have to receive approval from the zoning board of appeals, then the city council. And it's a matter of time. But also there has been some opposition in the city council, and...
Prabhupāda: So what can I do? What is the difficulty? What do you want from us?
City Counselor: Really nothing. The only problem is that there are certain rules and regulations that all the citizens of Evanston must comply with. And that's all that has been asked to be done. Originally, as I expressed, there were some... This property, the temple, is located in an area which is zoned for business. And there were some originally who wished to maintain that...
Prabhupāda: But there are so many churches...
City Counselor: Yes, there are many churches, yes. And I think...
Prabhupāda: So what is the fault if there is a temple?
City Counselor: Well, I think the... Originally, again I say, some of the no..., not I, but some had some objections to any church, any temple...
Prabhupāda: But already there are churches. I have seen so many churches surrounding our temple.
City Counselor: But I think that that is no longer a problem with the zoning. I think they accept the temple because they have seen that the...
Prabhupāda: The churches are not problem? Only the temple is problem?
City Counselor: No, I don't think that's the situation.
Prabhupāda: Then, what is the situation?
City Counselor: Well, I cannot read the minds of those who objected. Again I was not an objector.
Prabhupāda: But you are the head. You should judge. If the churches are not objectionable, why the temple should be objectionable?
City Counselor: May I explain? I am one of eighteen who make the decision. And...
Prabhupāda: No, no, decision, you may speak on our behalf, but if there are so many churches what is the fault of one temple?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that every one of us is in some type of consciousness: "I am American," "I am Indian," and, "It is my property," "America is my property," "India is my property." But we say that "Everything is Kṛṣṇa's property." Kṛṣṇa is the... Kṛṣṇa, God, when we say Kṛṣṇa, we mean God. God is the original proprietor. And He is, therefore, the supreme enjoyer, and He is everyone's friend. If we understand these three things, then we become peaceful. If all the nations in the United Nations assembly accept that everything belongs to God, then their quarrel between one nation to another nation immediately stops. But present fighting is that two hundred years ago the Americans were mostly in Europe. Now they have migrated and claiming America is theirs. So we think always that "All land belongs to God." Just like this big ocean. Who has created this ocean? Man has not created. Therefore, if God has created, then God is the proprietor. Take land, water. These are the material elements. Who has created such vast sky? That is also material. So we think in that way and try to find out the answer from authoritative sources. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Bahulāśva: Yes, he's still living.
Prabhupāda: So, what he is doing now?
Bahulāśva: Now he is retired.
Prabhupāda: Oh. No more swimming.
Bahulāśva: No more swimming.
Nalinī-kaṇṭha: He's taking money from the government for his work so that he can live.
Prabhupāda: Well, money is everyone is getting. The dog is also getting. Sometimes dog is inheriting the property of his master. But that does not mean he is not a dog.
Bahulāśva: The scientists now, they have been studying the different atoms. They say that the origin is what they call pure energy. And they describe that as a disembodied electrical charge.
Prabhupāda: Jugglery of words, that's all.
Bahulāśva: Their idea is very close to the Brahman conception, though. They think that one pure energy is pervading the whole universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bahulāśva: And it has no material properties.
Prabhupāda: As soon as you accept energy, then you must enquire what is the source of the energy? Energy is produced. Just like here is energy, but it is produced under certain arrangement. Where the energy is being produced? If you accept energy, that is knowledge. Now, just like electrical energy is, what is called, generated in the powerhouse. You cannot say the electrical energy has jump over. It is being generated. Eh?
Bahulāśva: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom this electric energy is coming? Where is the generating house? You cannot say that electric ener..., so many electrical light, they have come all of a sudden, no. There is a regular generating house. So where is that generating house? What is their reply?
Bahulāśva: They have none.
Prabhupāda: Just like this table belongs to somebody else. How can I possess it? And if the table belongs to somebody else, how can I renounce it? Renouncing means if I possess something. But if you have nothing to possess, where is the question of renouncing? And if the things belongs to somebody else, how can I possess it? This is my proposal. You cannot possess other things. And then you will be thief. If I possess other's possession, then I am thief. And if I renounce, then I am false renouncer, but I did not possess anything. So where is the question of possession and renouncing come? But the whole world is struggling. Some group is struggling for possessing, which is called economic development, and some group is trying to renounce it. Just like a rich man's son. Without any, his labor, he possesses the father's immense property. He wants to renounce it. And the poor man is trying to possess it. These two classes of men are working. One is trying to possess, and the other is trying to renounce. There is no other third group.
Prabhupāda: Everything belongs to God. That I was speaking, that we don't possess anything. This big ocean, is it our property? But we are claiming, "This portion of Pacific is mine." How it became yours? Did your father manufacture it? But we are claiming falsely, "This is mine. This is American portion, and this is Japanese portion. This is that portion and..." We do not possess it; we falsely claim it. This is our position. Actually it is the possession of God. God has created this land, this ocean, the sky, the air, the fire. You have not created. So how claim? We are claiming, "This space is our. You cannot fly your plane on this space." Do they not do like that? But how the space came to your possession? You have not created it. This is misunderstanding. I do not possess it; still, I claim, "It is my property." And there is fight. You are claiming something your property, I am claiming something as my property, but none of them belongs to you or me.
Prabhupāda: If by God's grace we get more then you can make sale, we are not going to work for selling purpose. Then money will be there. How to get money, how to get money? And as soon as you get money, more than necessity, then sense gratification, then this, that, this, that, then you become implicated. Ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta... ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). As soon as you become implicated with material want, gṛha, kṣetra, vittair, ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta, children, wife, friendship, then the false ego, "I am this body and this is my property," will increase. For that is material world. People do not know the end of life, or the aim of life. They are misguided, hence the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to give them an ideal way of life. So this is very nice place. We have got small lakes also.
Prabhupāda: ...St. Lawrence?
Jagadīśa: No. Detroit River.
Prabhupāda: And St. Lawrence is different river.
Jagadīśa: St. Lawrence is near Montreal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...given so much property. Use it properly. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Be happy. "No, we don't happiness. At the same time, we aspire after happiness." (break) ...bird?
Jagadīśa: Seagulls.
Prabhupāda: Bird? It is a bird?
Jagadīśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (hums "śrī kṛṣṇa-caitanya doyā koro more") (break) Canada is good or America is good? Which one is good?
Indian Man (2): I am reading books Prabhupāda. That books are your very, very good and most blessful to us. It is the biggest good will upon whole of universe at present, I think. By that knowledge, from dog to, I have become... I feel like I have something in my property of your books in my home. That's the only property I feel that I have, this one. I was misled, misguided in this country.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the beginning of Bhāgavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All cheating type of instruction is kicked out from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Only substance." Vāstavam-vastu vedyam atra. One who is really anxious to know reality, for them, it is Bhāgavatam. And those who want to be misled, not for them. One who is sincere to get the light, for him Bhāgavata is the only remedy. (break) ...the question that "Why Bhāgavata is so important than other books?" The reply is there: mahā-muni kṛte kiṁ va paraiḥ. "What is the use of other books?" It is written by Mahā-muni Vyāsadeva, the Vedānta-ācārya. (end)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There is one house on that land, isn't there?
Member: Yes, yes, one house on the land. And she wants to dedicate all of the property to the author of that books. That is the will.
Prabhupāda: So we shall organize it very nicely.
Member: And our Mahāṁśa Swami is taking very much interest. He is often coming to Nellore. (Hindi) Last month the land was registered and the registration took place.
Brahmānanda: In the name of ISKCON?
Member: ISKCON.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's already done.
Prabhupāda: So in September let us go there.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, they are keeping men as dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? They are educating general mass of people like cats and dogs, and they want peace. How it is possible? Make them first of all sober men. Then there is question of peace. (break) ...God consciousness, there is no question of peace. (break) If we know that the Supreme Lord, God, is our father, and He has..., everything belongs to Him, His property; therefore, instead of fighting, let us enjoy father's property peacefully. Then there will be peace. We are peacefully walking in this park because we know that it is commonwealth; it is government's property. I can walk, and the dog can also walk. Then there will be peace. And if I think, "No, it is my property," and you think your property, then there will be fight between you and me. So where is peace? Why you claim South Africa as your property? You are foreigner. You want peace. You are expert in keeping them subdued, the Africans. Otherwise, lawfully, it is African property. Why you have taken? Either you make it God's property, otherwise make it African property. You have no right to come here. If you say God's property, then everyone has got equal right. So they do not know what is the meaning of peace.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If nothing is our property—in fact, everything is Kṛṣṇa's property—why is there this desire to possess so many things?
Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace?
Prabhupāda: Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property." And today I am thinking, "My property," and next day I become a dog on the same property. Hm? This dog loitering, who can say he was not formerly a Mr. Smuts? Who can say? Maybe he was Smuts; now he is dog. How can you take him? This is nature's process. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). After death you'll have to accept another body. Now who can guarantee that General Smuts did not accept a dog's body? Who can guarantee? Where is the science? You think that he is dead and gone, but Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now what kind of body he has got? Where is the scientist to ascertain that "Mr., General Smuts has got now this body. He is living here"? Where is the science? You simply see like a fool and rascal, "My father is gone." Where your father gone? Where did he live so long? Why did you not see him? Where is the science? He is simply crying like a child, "My father is gone." Where he has gone? Find him out. And what he was? Why did you not see so long? This is their knowledge.
Harikeśa: What about those people who don't want to work? They are lazy.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: What about lazy people?
Prabhupāda: Let them become śūdra. Let them become servant. After all, unless he works, he cannot get his food. So let him become servant. He has to work to get food. No property. He should not be given any property. If you work, you can get food. Just like animal.
Harikeśa: How in the beginning is it decided that somebody is working and he should be given or not given?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Harikeśa: How in the beginning... Let's say you have a king...
Prabhupāda: Beginning Kṛṣṇa.
Harikeśa: No, no. Let's say you have a king, and he is deciding this person is worthy of...
Prabhupāda: No, no, beginning, Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you read Bhagavad-gītā? You do not know?
Harikeśa: No, no. Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the social arrangement? What is that?
Harikeśa: That Kṛṣṇa created the four orders.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So you make that four orders, and then society will be in order. But you are not taking Kṛṣṇa's advice. You are manufacturing your hellish ideas.
Prabhupāda: Seventy-five percent of them are mischievous. I have got experience. Seventy-five percent, they are simply mischievously planning—you have got five thousand or ten thousand dollar—to take it away, showing you that you are getting 200,000 worth of property. In this way they make implication, take your ten thousand dollar, and then finished. Many cases. Their only business is this. Big, big lawyer implicated. Therefore they are duṣkṛtina. Go to a lawyer; immediately you are implicated. You see, this man is condemned, Nixon, and he is to pay the lawyer's bill by working hard, by writing a book and selling the good will to some company. He has to pay the lawyer's bill. He has no money. The lawyers, doctors, as soon as they get some opportunity, immediately captures you and finish-bas. How to take away all your money. Because artificially they have enhanced the standard of living, they want money. So unless they do mischievous activity, by honest means they cannot get money.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. The child is so dependent on the mother, if the mother mistreats the opportunity, she also is punished.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: But if the child would cause the mother so much anxiety...
Prabhupāda: Don't talk like foolish. Don't talk of that. It is waste of time. If it is the property of the mother, mother can kill at any time. Why at a certain point if the mother kills child she is hanged? If the mother has got the liberty to kill the child, she can kill at any time.
Harikeśa: Well, it's just a tumor. It's like a tumor.
Prabhupāda: Then why you say that it is mother's right to kill? And tumor, can you bring life in tumor? Kick simply on their face, on their nose. That is the only thing to treat with such... Murkhasya latausadhiḥ. Such fools in the society, they should be hanged. Misleading the whole population.
Prabhupāda: The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton. Now understand? Cloth is nothing but cotton. But when I say "Bring cotton," you'll not bring a cloth. You'll bring cotton. So the Kṛṣṇa is the sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all effects. So all the effects are Kṛṣṇa. But you have no such realization. When you understand that this place is Kṛṣṇa's place, so you can worship Kṛṣṇa, glorify Kṛṣṇa. But if you don't realize that it is Kṛṣṇa's, then you talk nonsense, madman. "This is American property," "It is African property," "It is this. It is that," so many madness. But the śāstra says, iśavāsyam idam, everything Kṛṣṇa's. And the materialists, they'll pro... "No. Why everything? It is my country. It is my place." That is material. Similarly, anything coming from Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa is supreme spirit—it is spiritual. The devotees, they understand that "This fruit has come from Kṛṣṇa. The flower has come from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it must be offered to Kṛṣṇa. It is for use." Otherwise how the fruit becomes spiritual? We take prasādam. How it becomes..., the same fruit? No. Because the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there, it is spiritual. It is spiritual, but it was not known. When one comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he understands that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully. They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.
Prabhupāda: They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.
Brahmānanda: This is going on in the United Nations now.
Prabhupāda: It will go because they are all thieves. When the stolen property is to be divided, there will be fight.
Cyavana: Like a band of pirates. They always fight amongst themselves and kill each other.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.
Prabhupāda: This corner is something American?
Tejās: This used to be the U.S.I.S. but now this is closed. This is another...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This has become another kalākendra.
Tejās: This is also part of the Bharatiya kalākendra now. The U.S.I.S. used to be here, American information... (break)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: New Delhi is a very social city. There are a lot of kalākendras so there's a lot of active...
Prabhupāda: No, because the government servant, they haven't got to earn money. It is father's property. They are getting money and balance time, kalākendra. And government servant means (Hindi)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No work.
Prabhupāda: No work. Especially in this country. Sixty percent of the government servants, they sleep. They do not do anything. I have seen it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're reading papers or gossiping.
Prabhupāda: Gossiping, that's all. And keeping the files thrown away. If you want some reference, it will take three months.
Dr. Patel: And then they are prepared right from the brahmacārī āśrama for the highest goal, till they become a sannyāsī. Here he, he's neither this nor there.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no education. Real education is not there. Just like Cānakya Paṇḍita, he was not a spiritual man, but he was a prime minister. Still, he gave the standard of becoming educated. He said,
- mātṛvat para-dāreṣu
- para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat
- ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu
- yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ
Here is paṇḍita. What is he? Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: he sees every woman as mother, except his own wife. And para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: and other's property, possessions, just like garbage. And atmavat-sarva bhūteṣu: and feeling for everyone as he himself is feeling the pains and pleasures. If one has attained this stage, then he is considered educated. He never says these degrees. No.
Dr. Patel: These degrees are artifacts.
Prabhupāda: That is upādhi. Education is to become upādhi-less. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). But they are increasing upādhi.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31).
Dr. Patel: My father never did any work in all his life. Never. He had some estate, and then he lost it also. We are big zamindars, and he lost all the land and property in various forms of business. And after that he only was sitting in the temple all the day and saying hari-nāma. All his life, from the age of forty years till he died at age of eighty, he did that. My mother died when he was thirty-two years.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Dr. Patel: Very early. And he never married again, and I was the only son and no other daughter or son. Many people requested him to marry, but he said no, he would not marry, because one son is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: Yes. putradi (?) bhāgya. Putra, when there is putra, what is the use of marriage?
Dr. Patel: I was five years old when my mother died. In that big, pandemic of influenza in 1918, that..., that...
Prabhupāda: Yes, war influenza, after war.
Śravaṇānanda: He said, "Tear up all the big tulasīs..."
Dr. Patel: Is it a fact? We don't know.
Prabhupāda: It is a fact if he says.
Śravaṇānanda: Yes. It is written right there, it's written right there. They say the playing of football will bring one closer to heaven than the study of the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vivekananda taught this.
Śravaṇānanda: He said "Pull out the tulasī and plant brinjal."
Prabhupāda: Yes, he advised, better water what is called, eggplant tree, than tulasī tree. It will bring some fruit. What is the use of watering tulasī tree?
Dr. Patel: Tulasi has got great medicinal properties.
Prabhupāda: That he is not even prepared to...
Dr. Patel: He must not be knowing. Those rascals.
Prabhupāda: And "Why you are searching out God here and there? There are so many Gods loitering in the street." This is the Vivekananda's statement. And therefore everyone is God. Everyone is thinking, "I am God." This is going on.
Harikeśa: So there's no need for any movement...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: ...Communist movement.
Prabhupāda: There is need of movement.
Harikeśa: No, no. I mean there's no need for any organized Communist movement, because according to their philosophy...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they're fools. They're as fools. They are simply criticizing the capitalists, that much. That much, there is something ideal that the state property should be equally divided. That's a good thesis. But they do not know that it is not the ultimate solution. You do not know who is the proprietor. You do not know the proprietor. These things belong to Him. You are using it. I am thinking that "You are proprietor." But actually you are not proprietor. He is proprietor. If that is the position, then I take it from you that: "You cannot possess. I shall possess." Then what is my possess? The same thing. As you took it, took it out from this man, so I took it, take it from you. So my position is the same. If you cannot find out who is the actual proprietor, then you may change hands. The problem remains there, that it, it does not belong to you. You are forcibly snatching from the proprietor, or without knowing the proprietor, you are making arrangement. What is the value of this arrangement?
Harikeśa: So it's just the animal philosophy of the strong dominating the weak...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it.
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa is the strongest.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system.
| Page Title: | Property (Conversations, 1968 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Archana, Visnu Murti, Alakananda |
| Created: | 20 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=127, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 127 |