The Kṛṣṇa consciousness practice means you have to transfer yourself from this material energy to the..., under the control..., from the control of material energy, under the control of spiritual energy. That's all. That spiritual energy is Rādhārāṇī. You have to become under the control. That, I'll give you one concrete example. Just like a person is always under the control of government as citizen. When he is outlaw, he is under the criminal law, and who is law-abiding, he is under civil law. He cannot say that "I cannot remain within the law of the government." He has to. That is his position. Artificially he may deny, but he will be forced. Similarly, our position is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. And as part and parcel we have to render service. If we voluntarily render service, out of love, that is spiritual energy. And we are forced to render service under pressure, that is material energy. In the material energy we are forced. Who wants to become... Suppose you are American. If somebody says, "Would you like to become a dog next life?", would you like? Anybody would like? What do you think? (laughter) But according to his work, he will be forced to accept. There is no saying, "No, no. I don't like this sort of life." No. He will be forced. That is material energy. Forced, just like criminal law. "Oh, you have to go to the prison." "I don't want." You will be forced. "I don't want." He will be arrested, immediately. There is sufficient power. There is police, thre is military, there is so many things. You cannot say no.
Prison (Lectures)
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Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
We are already smaller than the smallest, because our real dimension, spiritual dimension, is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. This is our dimension. This is only outward covering, this body. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). So a yogi can give up this body and come to his original, spiritual body, and it is so small that you cannot keep yogi in prison. Anywhere. Because there is some hole, he'll get out. This is yogi. This is mystic power. What do they know about mystic power? Simply press the nose, that's all. This kind of yoga..., of course these are preliminary processes, dhyāna, dhāraṇā, prāṇāyāma. This prāṇāyāma requires to get the breathing from the opposite side... We have got experience. The two holes of the nostrils, one is blocked, one is open. So prāṇāyāma means to try to open the blocked side. That is called. So there are so many. But ultimate yoga means to get this power. That is yoga.
So our, our point of view is not to become a first-class prisoner. To get out of the prison. That is Vaiṣṇava vision. You'll find... Last night I have given comments that Mādhavendra Purī, he was performing the Annakuta ceremony and installing the Deity. So everything was being brāhmaṇa, done by brāhmaṇa, qualified brāhmaṇa, but Mādhavendra Purī initiated them again to become Vaiṣṇava. Then he gave them in charge of the Deity worship. So the Vaiṣṇava functions cannot be done even by a brāhmaṇa. Even one is qualified brāhmaṇa, he is unfit to propagate Vaiṣṇava philosophy. That is stated in the śāstras.
We are suffering. Now, this suffering, we have become so much accustomed to sufferings that we have taken it granted that these sufferings are nonmaterial. "Let us enjoy this material life. This suffering..." They don't care for suffering. You see? They want this material enjoyment, which is the cause of his bondage. It is cause of bondage. So they do not want... Just like there are some prisoners who do not like to get out of the prison life. They think it is better to remain in the prison because "I have no responsibility. If I go outside the prison, oh, I will have to search out some work. Oh, that is botheration. Let me remain here." Or even after the termination of the prison life, when he comes out, he commits again some criminal act so that he may be put again into the jail. He has been accustomed. Similarly, he does not take seriously the miseries of prison life. He is so accustomed that he does not take. That is ignorance. That is ignorance. Similarly, those who are in this material world under the shackles of material modes of nature, they have completely forgotten that we have got a spiritual life which is full of freedom, full of knowledge, full of bliss, and we can become exactly almost like God. These things they have forgotten. They think that "If, from the C-class prisoner's life, I can become an A-class prisoner..." Just like in the prison life there are some classes, A-class prisoner, B-class prisoner, C-class prisoner, similarly, our endeavor is going on in this material life to become A-class prisoner. The program is not for getting out of the prison life, but we want to become A-class prisoner. That is ignorance. That is ignorance.
And what are the shackles of this prison life? The shackles of prison life... Just like in ordinary prison, prisoner... Of course, I do not know what is the case here of prison life, but I have seen. Sometimes in New Delhi I was invited to give some good lessons to the prisoners. So I have seen so many prisoners. They were shackled with iron chains, iron chains. So we are also chained up here, and what is that chain? That is our sense enjoyment. Yes. We are chained in this material world by sense enjoyment. That's all. So if we want to cut our prison life, then the first symptom will be to minimize this sense enjoyment or to regulate the sense enjoyment. Here the Lord says that yadā saṁharate cāyaṁ kūrmo 'ṅgānīva sarvaśaḥ. The example is given just like the tortoise. The tortoise can close up, wind up his senses as he likes. That means he becomes the master of the senses. He does not like to be the servant of the senses. So this, I mean to say, verse, we have already discussed. So indriyāṇīndriyārthebhyas tasya prajñā pratiṣṭhitā. One who is practiced to control his senses... Senses are not to be stopped. They are to be used at proper time, but not at the dictation of the senses. When one comes to that standard of life, that he is not dictated by the senses but he uses senses when it is properly required... Senses are not to be stopped. That is not prescribed.
That means next life I'll be thrown into the cycle of birth and death in the 8,400,000 species of life, and my life is spoiled. We do not know for how many millions of years I'll have to travel in that cycle of birth and death. Therefore it is poison. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. I know this, I am hearing. Still,... Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa... Just like a thief. Jāniyā śuniyā, these words are very significant. Jāniyā means knowing, and śuniyā means hearing. So a habituated thief, he knows that "If I steal I shall be put into jail." And he has heard from scriptures that "Don't steal. Then you'll be put into hell." So he has heard from the scriptures and he has seen practically. He has experienced practically, but still, as soon as he's freed from the prison life, he again commits the same mistake. Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. We know, we are hearing from the scriptures, from authorities, Vedic literatures, that "I have got this miserable conditional body, material body, to suffer threefolds of material miseries; still, I am not very much anxious how to stop this repetition of birth and death. I am drinking poison." Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. These songs are very instructive. Simply purposefully, we are drinking poison.
Similarly, this is our prison life. This material existence is our prison life. And prakṛti, nature, is the forceful agent. She is always enforcing us to do, to act. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). So this is going on. Now, if you want to get rid of this imprisonment, then you should begin this karma-yoga, karma plus yoga. Yoga means in connection with the Supreme. That connection with the Supreme begins with this formula, yajña, sacrifice.
Just like a thief. He sees personally that a man who has committed theft is taken away by the police to the custody, to the prison. He is seeing that, and he has heard the law that "Any man who steals, he will be punished." He has heard it, and he has seen it. Still, he commits theft. Why? He is seeing, and he is hearing. In both ways he is understanding, but still, he is committing theft. That means his heart is not pure.
So the first thing is to make one's heart purified. And this is the process, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam (CC Antya 20.12), by simply chanting, without paying any price, without any loss on your part. Please try to chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result. It is so nice movement.
There are two kinds of nature: superior nature and inferior nature. Now we are under the influence of this inferior, material nature. And that, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we shall be transferred into the superior nature. Just try to understand: a person in the prison, a person outside the prison. The government's influence is in both the places, outside the prison and inside the prison. But outside the prison, the government's rules and regulation is superior. And inside, that is inferior. So influence is there. Similarly, either in the material world or in the spiritual world, wherever you, you are, your position is marginal. You can transfer yourself either in this, under the influence of this inferior nature, or you can transfer yourself under the influence of superior nature. Your position is marginal.
Very important chapter, the most confidential knowledge, guhyatamam. And it is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Even those who are liberated from this material contamination, they are called mukta-jīva, liberated soul. And there are nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta and nitya-baddha. Nitya means eternally, and mukta means liberated. And again, nitya, eternally, baddha, conditioned. So just like there are many persons in the state who have never seen what is the prison life, and there are many persons in the state, the majority of one's life is passed in the prison. Similarly, there are two nature, material nature and the spiritual nature. What we are seeing, this nature, this universe, within the material nature... Similarly, there is another spiritual nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20).
One of, some of them, perhaps you know, there was one Mr. C. R. Das. He was earning $50,000 a month as a lawyer. So everything renounced. He joined this Movement. And, perhaps you have heard the name of Nehru. Nehru was very rich man's son. His father was very rich lawyer. His father's history is that... In those days, there was not a single day when he was not earning $500. The... So he was also very rich man's son. But he renounced everything, his father's property and everything, and joined this (Indian) national movement. He went to prison by the government. So renunciation has also attraction.
So śāstra says, therefore, that "These four necessities of life, you'll get, any form of life. Any insignificant form or very important form, it doesn't matter. You'll get all... This is arranged." You have no anxiety for that. Kṛṣṇa has given you. Just like even if you are put into the jail life, prison life, for these things government has arranged already. In the jail life there is eating, sleeping, arrangement. So for these things we should not be very much anxious. That is human life. Simply he has to see intelligently, things, how things are going on.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Even Śaṅkarācārya, the impersonalist, he says nārāyaṇa paraḥ avyaktāt: "Nārāyaṇa is beyond this material creation." Avyakta. Avyakta means there is a total stock of material elements beyond this universe. There are so many things to be learned. This universe we see just like a ball, and this ball is covered by layers of water, fire, air, earth, like that. Circling. And each layer is ten times bigger than the previous layer. In this way the universe is covered. And beyond that covering, there is another sky. We are prisoned here within this universe. We are thinking that we are very free to move in the sky with, what is called, sputniks. But you cannot go beyond your limitation. That is not possible. They are going to the moon planet, again coming back. You see. That is our conditional life, that you are conditioned, packed up under certain regulations. If you violate, then you are punishable. You cannot violate. You have to remain within the conditions of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama... (BG 7.14). You cannot violate. If you want to violate the laws of nature, then you will create another difficulty. Another difficulty. (end)
Just like one is a prisoner. So if he pleases the superintendent of prison, he can get some little facilities. Now I have seen, practically, that one young boy, he was imprisoned for some criminal act. So he was typing in the office of the jail superintendent. So that means he was educated, but he was put into ordinary prison term. He was breaking some stone. But he satisfied the jail superintendent that "I am not accustomed to this. However, I can serve you in some other way." So, he saw that "He is educated. He knows. All right. You come to my office. Just help me, in typing."
They are karmīs. Karma, akarma and vikarma. There are three divisions of our activities. Generally we say karmīs, ordinary men, who are working hard to earn some money and enjoy. Actually, they are not karmīs. They are vikarmīs. Real karmīs... Just like a thief. A thief is stealing. That is also certain kind of activity. It is not inactivity. So we cannot say that this is bona fide activity. He's also planning. He's also making plan, how to steal, how to go upstairs of the house and then come down. So there is activity. But such kind of activity is not bona fide activity. Therefore, according to śāstra, it is called vikarma. Vikarma means it is counteractivity. Activity means you have to work legally. That is activity. If you say that "I am very much active in stealing," then that is not excused. Then you'll... Government will say, "Please stop your activity. You come into the prison." Yes.
Yes. So I was given place just in front of the room where Gandhi was imprisoned. That, that room is considered as sacred. So government makes such arrangement that "These prisoners may be corrected." Similarly, in this material world, although we are all condemned... Anyone who is within this material world, he is condemned. Simply there is division. Just like in jail also, there are first-class prisoners, there are second-class prisoners and third-class prisoners. The first-class prisoners, they are given some facilities. Just like political prisoners, they are given separate bungalow and servants, newspaper, book. But they cannot go out of the prison. That is called first class. Similarly, there are second class. And third class, ordinary.
So Kaṁsa became pacified. He believed in the words of Vasudeva, that he'll deliver all the sons, "And if you like, can kill." He thought, "Let me save the present situation. After all, later on, mean, Kaṁsa gets a nephew; he may forget this enviousness." But he's never, never to forget. Yes. He killed all the sons and kept them in prison. śucārpitā ruddhā aticiram. Aticiram means for long time. So he was saved. Devakī was saved after all. Similarly if we take the position of Devakī and Kuntī... Kuntī, just like with her sons, Pañca-Pāṇḍava, five Pāṇḍavas... After she became widow, the whole plan was, Dhṛtarāṣṭra's, "How to kill these children of my younger brother? Because, by chance, I was blind, so I could not get the throne of the kingdom. My younger brother got it. Now he's dead. So at least my sons, they should get the throne." That was his policy, Dhṛtarāṣṭra's policy: "I could not get." This is material propensities. "I shall be happy. My sons shall be happy. My community shall be happy. My nation shall be happy." These are extended selfishness. Nobody's thinking Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa will be happy. Everyone is thinking in his own terms: "How I shall be happy, how my children shall be happy, my community shall be happy, my society shall be happy, my natio..." This is the struggle for existence. Everywhere you'll find it. This is material existence. Nobody's thinking how Kṛṣṇa will be happy.
Just like in this winter season, we cover ourself very nicely with gloves, with overcoat. It is simply counteracting the suffering. But a man who has got a nice overcoat and gloves, he is thinking he is enjoying. This is māyā. He forgets that he is simply trying to counteract the suffering. Actually, he is suffering. But having a nice coat or nice place, he is thinking that he is enjoying. That is foolishness. That is called māyā. There is no enjoyment in this material world. Simply we are trying to counteract the suffering. This counteraction of suffering, we are accepting as enjoyment. So this material world means you must suffer. That is the position of the material world. Otherwise why you have come to material world? Just like in the prison life, how you can expect enjoyment there? But a man... Suppose a big politician is put into the jail and he is given a very nice, comfortable bungalow and everything, but he is in the jail. But he is thinking that "I am enjoying." He forgets that he is in the jail. He is in the jail. That is called ignorance, māyā. He is suffering and he is accepting. Just like the pig. He is eating stool, but he is thinking he is enjoying. This is going on.
Now, "Supreme I cannot see." You cannot see. Therefore Supreme's name, another name is Adhokṣaja, "beyond the perception of your experimental knowledge." That is called adhokṣaja. Adhah-kṛta akṣaja jñānaṁ yatra. By your experimental knowledge you cannot understand. The same thing, that if you say, "I do not see the President of the United States. Therefore I do not believe this law, 'Keep to the left.' " No, no. If you don't believe, that is your business. But as soon as you violate this law, immediately you are under prison. You have seen the President or not seen, it doesn't matter. The law will act. Similarly, you believe in God or do not believe in God. It doesn't matter. The God's order, the God's law, will work on. And for this purpose the material energy is there.
Of the Gosvāmīs it is said, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Because they were benefactor for all kinds of living entity, therefore they were honored tri-bhuvane, in three worlds. Tri-bhuvane. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. A sādhu's business is for the benefit of all living entities. A sādhu does not like to cut even a tree, because he knows, "Here is a living entity. He is standing here for many years by his karma, and he has to continue this for many years more. So he cannot avoid this because it is nature's law." Just like if you are put into prison for six months, nobody can save you, nobody can make you less, one day less than six months. So we get our particular type of body, we have to remain in that body for a certain period by the laws of nature. So by cutting the body—the living entity does not die—but because we check the continuation of his period, therefore we become sinful. You cannot cut even a tree without Kṛṣṇa's purpose. Without Kṛṣṇa's purpose we cannot kill even an ant, we cannot cut even a tree, then we shall be liable to punishment. So a sādhu sees that "Here is also a living entity."
How? What is the proof? The proof is the Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who understands about My birth and appearance..." Lord does not take birth. Aja. Aja means who never takes birth. Ever-existing. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, sambhavāmi yuge yuge. So aja, one who does not take birth, but still we see that Kṛṣṇa is taking birth. We are observing the birth anniversary of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So therefore what is the mystery? He does not take birth. Still, we are observing the birth anniversary of Kṛṣṇa, Janmāṣṭamī. So this is to be understood, tattvataḥ, in truth. Yo jānāti tattvataḥ. Kṛṣṇa says, Veda says that na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. "The Supreme Lord God has nothing to do." Why He shall do? So... And again, we see that Kṛṣṇa, since the day of His appearance at His maternal uncle's prison till His going back to His own home, He was always active.
In this way, this combination of matter becomes dismantled. That is called nirvāṇa, finished. That is Buddha theory, that "By chance, a combination of material elements has formed these bodies, and by chance, a living force has come out, manifested, and on account of the living consciousness, we are feeling pains and pleasure. So in order to stop the so-called pains and pleasure, you dismantle this machine. Then there is no more... You become zero. Then there is no more pains and pleasure." This is Buddha's theory. The same principle, that you have got some pain on your head, so the theory is that break your head. Sometime I suggested to our Sarasvatī, that "You break your head and there will be no pain." So this theory is like that. Instead of mending... This is the lack of knowledge. Mūḍha. Mūḍha. The pains and pleasure... One man in the prison life, he is simply suffering so many pains and pleasure. There is no pleasure, simply pain. So he is trying to commit suicide.
So in this way, our position, although we are both in this material world, one is the controller; one is the controlled. And the one who is controlled by the prakṛti, by the material nature, if he accepts to be controlled by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then his controlling by the material nature upon him, that is finished, no more control. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14). This is perfection of life. At the present moment we are being controlled every second, every step. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step there is danger. This control means punishment. You cannot expect very good treatment in the prison life. So this is prison life, conditioned life. So you cannot expect any good treatment by the material nature because her business is to punish us. That is the business so that we can enquire that "Why I am being punished?" That is required. That "why" philosophy is very important. That is the beginning of human life. But we are so dull, in spite of being kicked every moment by material nature, that "why" question is not coming, so dull-headed. And we are advanced in designation.
Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
As soon as we deny to serve Kṛṣṇa, immediately māyā. As soon as we deny to obey the state laws, immediately we are criminals and subjected to the criminal acts, "Go to the prison." This is, we have got practical experience. You cannot defy the laws of the state or the laws of the worlds of the government. If we cannot... You cannot do it. If you do it, then you are punished. That is the statement in every śāstra. Daṇḍaniya. Daṇḍaniya, this daṇḍa is going on, one after another. Daṇḍa means punishment. But we are, because we are in illusion, we are thinking this daṇḍa is advancement of civilization.
Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? How does one become free from that ghostly body?
Prabhupāda: Ghostly body means he has to suffer for some time. Just like you are put into prison. After your term is finished, then you are liberated. Similarly, a most sinful man, he is given this term, "You remain for some years in the subtle body." Everything is like that. This is also. We have got this body, gross body, under certain condition. When that condition is finished, then I give up this body, I create another condition, and I enter another body. This is going on. Yes?
Woman: If we are all liberated in the end, and if we all reach Godhead, why is it necessary... (break)
Madhudvīṣa: ...reach Godhead in the end, why do we have to speed up the process? Why not we just let things take their natural course of events if everyone's going back to Godhead ultimately?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is a good suggestion, but you rot for the time being. Suppose you are going somewhere, walking, and somebody gives you opportunity, "Come in my car," why don't you take advantage of it? You are... You will reach the destination by walking in six thousand years, (laughter) but if you get the opportunity... In your country there is good. There is staircase and there is elevator. So if you want to go, that "I shall go by the staircase and reach the upstair at the end of the day when office will be finished," (laughter) then you can do that. But if you are intelligent, you shall take the advantage of the elevator. Within a minute you go there. That is intelligence. "I am going. I shall reach at the end of the day when every office will be closed. Then I will come down again." If you see that, that you can do—not very good intelligence. That is not intelligence. We have to take the speediest process. That is intelligence.
He will suffer next life. Just like a man is imprisoned, and if your friend or relative is imprisoned, by somehow or other you get him released by hook and crook, so when you are again captured you are again severely punished, both the men. Is it not the law? So how can you give relief to the suffering person who is condemned? If in your state law a man suffering in the prison and if you feel sympathy or you may try to give him release and get him out by some hook and crook means, then both of you will be punished. Is it not? So how can you avoid the punishment by God's law?
So this kind of sympathy, just like this Rāmakrishna Mission daridra-nārāyaṇa sevā, under the plea of accepting this suffering humanity as Nārāyaṇa and appealing to the compassion of the people... Although they cannot do anything. Actually they are not doing anything but this philosophy is a rubbish philosophy. You cannot do. If you can do anything good to the people, then you can simply awaken them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the best service. Other service you cannot do. Te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni-baddhāḥ. Just like by any means you cannot get released a man who is condemned in the prison. Against law. However sympathetic you may be to your friend, but you cannot release him. That is against law. Similarly, people are suffering, undoubtedly, but they have to undergo the prāyaścitta process. In the śāstras there are prāyaścitta process. Formerly, even our childhood days, we have seen in Calcutta, there is a special quarter of the bhaṭṭācārya brāhmaṇas. The bhaṭṭācārya brāhmaṇas' business is that if you have committed some sinful act, you should immediately go and consult the bhattācārya: "What is the process of prāyaścitta?" Just like you go in case of disease, consult a physician, and take his prescription and diagnosis, similarly, that was the Vedic system.
So people, they know that "There is resultant action of this kind of sinful activity." He knows. Even if he does not know, he sees. Just like a man who has stolen, committed theft. One sees that he is arrested or he is punished, he is put into the prison, and still, he commits stealing. He knows. So similarly, we are hearing from the śāstra that "If you commit this sin..." Just like māṁsa. Māṁsa, this very thing, means, māṁ sa khadati. Therefore flesh is called māṁsa. "The animal which I am killing, he will have the right to kill me and eat me." That is going on, repetition: "I kill you this life. Next life you kill me. In this life you have become a cow or goat. Next time I'll become a cow or goat. You have the right to kill me." This is called karma-bandhana.
So these two words have been used, dṛṣṭa-śruta: "by hearing and by seeing." Everyone knows that there is sinful reaction. Janānn apy. What is that? Ātmano ahitam, ātmanā: it is disastrous for his self. He has to undergo so much punishment. Still, karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ. Vivaśaḥ means automatically. He has been habituated. Automatically he commits the same sin, vivaśa. Prāyaścittam atho katham. Then, if he remains always a victim to the sinful reaction and if he is habituated to do that, so artificially this kind of confession in the church or giving some bribe to the bhaṭṭācārya, what is the meaning of this? It is practical question. If the man is habituated to commit sinful activities throughout the whole week, what is the use of his going to the church and confessing and give some bribe or... You take in any, any field. So it is very intelligent question. There is practically no use. If you remain a thief always, so for your theft you are put into the prison, and as soon as you get out of the prison again you commit theft. He knows that "I shall be again put into the prison." Still, he commits the same thing. Actually there are many thieves. At least in India I have seen. Their business is stealing, and they are put into the jail, and as soon as he comes out, again commits the same thing and put into the jail for many days.
"Yes, my dear King, you are right. Your question is very intelligent. Actually, by committing something wrong and reacting it by something else, that is not very beneficial. The real prāyaścitta is knowledge." Real prāyaścitta is knowledge. A thief is committing theft and going to the prison, suffers for six months, again he comes out, and again he commits theft, and within four days again he is put into the prison. We have seen many such cases. He..., the thief comes out of the jail, and exactly after four days he's again put into the jail. So this action and reaction... One has committed theft, and the reaction is that he is put into the jail. This is not exactly beneficial. Real is that thief must be given knowledge. Knowledge... For want of knowledge, the whole world is suffering for want of knowledge. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving actual knowledge of the living entity, mīmāṁsā. Mīmāṁsā means that think over the matter, that "Why I am doing this?" This is called brahma-jijñāsā, this is called brahma-jijñāsā. Means when a person becomes inquisitive about this "Why?" "Why I am suffering?" then he becomes intelligent. The he comes to the standard of human life.
We get experience by two methods, by seeing and by hearing. Just like a criminal, thief, he has seen that previously a man who stole, he was arrested by the police and punished and he has heard also from authorities, from lawyers, that "Stealing is bad. If you are arrested you will be put into the prison." So this is the defect of the modern civilization. They are enacting so many laws to stop criminal but the criminality is increasing. The practical example is, when you go to the airport there is security checking. So all gentlemen, whoever he may be—sometimes they excuse me—but they are checked thoroughly. So the authorities check everyone means that everyone is dishonest. So what is the value of this education if everyone is criminal and dishonest? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja is intelligent devotee. He therefore protested against this so-called atonement. Therefore he describes like this, dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyāṁ yat pāpaṁ janānn apy ātmano 'hitam (SB 6.1.9). Everyone knows that "I am stealing; it is not good for me," but even though he is put into the jail as prāyaścitta, again he comes back and does the same thing. Then what is the meaning of this legal punishment or prāyaścitta?
So dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām. Śruta means hearing, knowledge... The same thing... The person, the thief, he has seen and he has heard. Dṛṣṭa-śrutābhyām yat pāpam (SB 6.1.9). He knows what is sinful activities. Jānann apy. He knows this is... Jānann apy ātmano 'hitam. "This kind of activity is injurious to my person." Karoti bhūyo vivaśaḥ: "Again he commits the same thing." He knows. Karoti vivaśaḥ prāyaścittam atho katham: "Then what is the value of that? If he cannot stop his sinful activity, then what is the meaning of this prāyaścittam?" So a professional thief, he has gone to the prison several times. He has been punished. Still, he commits the same thing, again goes to the jail. A patient, he has suffered from the disease on account of certain bad habits and he has gone to the doctor. He has paid much money and suffered injection, operation, and still he is doing that. Therefore Parīkṣit Mahārāja said, "What is the value of this prāyaścitta?" Prāyaścitta, kind of punishment.
Sa pāśa-hastāṁs trīn dṛṣṭvā puruṣān ati-dāruṇān. So, at the time of death there are so many disturbance. We have got experience, but you have forgot because bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). But these things are observed by the sinful person. The Yamadūta, they come to take to the sinful, sinful person, not devotees. Just like the whole population of the city, they are not all subjected to the prison laws. Some criminals. Similarly, this Yamadūta goes to such sinful persons. They are not all. But it is the question of Ajāmila... He was so sinful that automatically the Yamadūtas came, and they wanted to take him.
The description of the Yamadūtas is there, that twisted face and very ugly-looking, very fierceful, and with ropes in the hand. So naturally he was very afraid. And he was attached to his son, so naturally he wanted to call somebody to save him, so he called his affectionate son, whose name was Nārāyaṇa. This is the opportunity. Kṛṣṇa is so kind upon His devotee. This Ajāmila was in the beginning a devotee. Later on he fell down. But Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa, is so kind that He gave him the dictation that "You keep your son's name as Nārāyaṇa," so that he'll be able to call the holy name Nārāyaṇa by calling his son. He was very much attached to the youngest son, whose name was Nārāyaṇa. So, unconsciously, he was chanting the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, although he never meant that he's calling real Nārāyaṇa. He's asking his son, Nārāyaṇa, "My dear son, Nārāyaṇa, please come here, take your food, sit down here, play here, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa."
Jāta is hair. Hair. Jāta. So no barber was available. (laughter) Because they knew that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, after arresting, he is suffering from fever. Whole family is lying down in fever. So nobody came forward to cut his jāta. So Bhaktivinoda: "All right, bring one scissor. I shall cut." So he personally cut, and personally cut, and that man became very thin immediately after cutting his jata. He had some power in the jāta. And he ordered six months' imprisonment. And in the prison he managed to take some poison and died. So devotees are so strong. They can know what is what. You see? He was not puzzled that "He is Viṣṇu and this..." No. So we should learn from the Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's treatment that this jugglery or this so-called power is not, no good for advancement in spiritual life. You have to follow the regulative principles as enjoined in the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya. If you do not follow the injunction of the śāstra, then there is no possibility of attaining perfection. Na siddhiṁ sāvapnoti. So our business is to accept a bona fide spiritual master, being guided by him, to follow the rules and regulations. Then advancement is sure.
Otherwise, he'll be attracted by the modes of ignorance and passion. Etāvatālam agha-nirharaṇāya. Agha means the reaction of sinful activities. Every one of us, anyone who is in this material world, he is sinful. Without being sinful, nobody is here in this material world. If he's not sinful, then he'll be immediately transferred. Yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām. Immediately transferred to the spiritual world. He has... Just like a person who has finished his criminal punishment, immediately he is released from the prison. Similarly, a person who is freed from the resultant action of sinful activities, he immediately becomes liberated. Therefore anyone who is in this material world engaged in fruitive activities... Not the devotees. That is another mistake. The devotees are also here, but they are always in Vaikuṇṭha. Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). So anyway, the general process is that instead of, I mean to say, following the religious rituals for diminishing or getting out of the sinful reaction, one is recommended to accept bhakti-yoga, beginning with the chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa. That is the conclusion.
So Prahlāda Mahārāja says if you don't train up in the beginning, then ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ. Ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ, the whole training is to control the senses, and the most powerful sense is the tongue. Sense control begins from the tongue. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has given you the song: tār madhye jihvā ati lobhamoy sudurmati. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura gives a description that Śarīra avidyā-jāla joḍendriya tāhe kāl. This body is the encagement. We are in the prison of this material world. How we are imprisoned? We have been given a material body. This is imprisonment. Śarīra avidyā-jāl. And we are very happy to keep this body very comfortably without knowing the aim of life. That is avidyā-jāl, a network of ignorance. Śarīra avidyā-jāl, and the senses are our greatest enemies. Unless we control the senses, we are put into this avidyā-jāl, network of... And out of all the senses, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says tār madhye jihvā-jihvā means tongue-jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati. It is very greedy. Jihvā, to control the tongue. To control the senses means begin with the controlling the tongue. That is also very difficult job. So therefore to control the tongue, best thing is to take kṛṣṇa prasādam. First of all, offer to Kṛṣṇa and then take. Tāra madhye jihvā ati, lobhamoy sudurmati tā'ke jetā koṭhina soṁsāre. Kṛṣṇa boḍa-doyāmoy kori bare jihvā joy. At least if we take it as a vow that "I shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa," that will help us. Kṛṣṇa boḍa-doyāmoy, kori bare jihvā joy svaprasād ānna dilā bhāi.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Prabhupāda: You can arrange a light here. Yes.
Pradyumna: "...which had been deposited with a village banker and escaped from the prison of Hussain Shah. In this way, both brothers joined Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Rūpa Gosvāmī first met Lord Caitanya at Prayāga (Allahabad, India) on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ghāṭa of that holy city and on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ghāṭa of that holy city the Lord instructed him continually for ten days. The Lord particularly instructed Rūpa Gosvāmī on the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These teachings of Lord Caitanya to Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda are narrated in our book Teachings of Lord Caitanya.
Later Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda elaborated the teachings of the Lord with profound knowledge of revealed scriptures and authoritative references from various Vedic literatures. Śrīla Śrīnivāsa Ācārya describes in his prayers to the Six Gosvāmīs that they were all highly learned scholars, not only in Sanskrit, but also in foreign languages such as Persian and Arabian. They very scrutinizingly studied all the Vedic literatures in order to establish the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu on the authorized principles of Vedic knowledge. The present Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also based on the authority of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. We are therefore generally known as rūpānugas, or followers in the footsteps of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī Prabhupāda. It is only for our guidance that Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī prepared his book Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, which is now presented in the form of the Nectar of Devotion. Persons engaged in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement may take advantage of this great literature and be very solidly situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Bhakti means devotional service. Every service..."
Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, he used to advise us to read Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Everyone, after initiation. At least, he advised me. So this Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu is very important as study book for the Vaiṣṇavas. It is the science of devotional service. And people are, in Western countries, taking interest. In the Temple University, it has become a textbook in the religious class. There are sixty students who are regularly studying the Bhakti, Nectar of Devotion published by us. And gradually it is being introduced in other colleges and schools. I think you are straining.
Pradyumna: (reading:) "...who was later to become Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, took advantage of his brother's personal money, which had been deposited with a village banker, and escaped from the prison of Hussain Shah. In this way, both brothers joined Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Rūpa Gosvāmī first met Lord Caitanya at Prayāga (Allahabad, India), and on the Daśāśvamedha bathing ghāṭa of that holy city the Lord instructed him continually..."
Prabhupāda: Now sometimes it is questioned that Sanātana Gosvāmī paid the money in black market. Yes. Actually he paid. When the Hussain Shah, Nawab, imprisoned him, he was minister. The superintendent of jail, he was working under him. He was minister. So the Sanātana Gosvāmī requested him that "I had done so many times your benefit. So you do me one benefit. You let me go. Let me go al..., the, although the Nawab has imprisoned me." (aside:) That's not required. So "I am going to be a pir (?)." Because the Muslims, they respect very much the pir. So actually he was going to be a pir. They renounced the family life and became gosvāmīs. "So I am sacrificing my life for God, and you just help me in this service. And not only that, you get some material profit also. I have got this, that, about..." First of all, he offered five thousand, five thousand gold mudras (?). But when he was not very happy, then he offered ten thousand. In this way, it was settled and the superintendent of jail let him go. And he inquired from Sanātana Gosvāmī, "What I shall explain to the Nawab when he'll ask me explanation, call for explanation? You are going." So he gave him a trick that... Formerly, people used to evacuate on the field. So he was imprisoned. So he wanted to evacuate in the field. And the superintendent of jail was accompanying him. In this way, he fabricated story and he told that "When he was evacuating, immediately he jumped over the river and the river's waves were so strong, he was carried away. I could not find him." So in this way, Sanātana Gosvāmī escaped after bribing.
We should be always ready to offer respect to all, not only devotees, but everyone. Everyone. Because every living entity is originally a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But circumstantially, being covered by the coat of māyā, he's playing like demon. But his original nature is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇera dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Everyone is eternally servant of Kṛṣṇa. But being influenced by māyā, when he gets this body, given by māyā... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27), when he's conducted by the three guṇas of māyā, he thinks himself otherwise. He thinks himself independent of Kṛṣṇa. But actually, nobody is independent of Kṛṣṇa. I've given this example that the prisoners, the criminals in the jail, they go to jail thinking themselves to be independent of the state laws, outlaws. A criminal thinks, "I don't care for the state laws." But after all, for his activities, criminal activities, he's put into the jail. So at that time he's forced to obey the state laws. Outside the state laws, he's disobeyed. But within the prison, he's forced by punishment. Similarly, those who are defying the authorities of the Supreme Lord, they are all criminals, and they are being punished by Durgā-devī. Chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44).
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was approached by Sanātana Gosvāmī. They were ministers in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, in Bengal. In those times there was a Pathan government, and they were responsible ministers. One was chief minister, one was finance minister. Very responsible post, Rūpa Gosvāmī. And they almost became Muhammadans. Because formerly the brahminical society was very strict. If any brāhmaṇa accepts service of another person... Generally kṣatriyas. And he, they were Muslims. So they were, I mean to say, rejected from brāhmaṇa society, and they changed their name also. Almost they became Muhammadans. Sākara Mallika and Dabira Khāsa—both the brothers, Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī. And they met Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then they decided to resign from the government post and join this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not new. It, it, it is continuing, it is going on since Kṛṣṇa appeared. And later on, five hundred years ago, Caitanya Mahāprabhu revived it, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). So when they met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, both the brothers decided that "Now we shall join Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. It is very nice movement." So, after resigning their posts, Rūpa Gosvāmī stealthily left the country and Sanātana Gosvāmī was situated. He formally wanted to resign the post, but the Nawab would not allow him to resign; therefore he was arrested. And somehow or other, he managed to come out of the prison and then join Caitanya Mahāprabhu at Benares.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So that expertness, that part of expert endeavor, is Kṛṣṇa. So we should not think, "Oh, because Kṛṣṇa is gambling also, so let us engage and devote in gambling." No. Kṛṣṇa is everything. Kṛṣṇa is everything, but we have to select favorably, not unfavorably. Svalpaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Without Brahman, without Kṛṣṇa, nothing can exist. Everything existing on His energy. The same example can be given that every department is government department. Therefore, if a prisoner says, "Yes, I am in government department," that sort of knowledge is not very good. "Because prison department is also criminal department, is also government department, so instead of becoming in the university department, let me go to the criminal department." That is not congenial. We have to select. Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa says that every dhāma, every place, belongs to Him, but yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama: (BG 15.6) "There is an eternal dhāma, where going nobody comes back. That is My supreme dhāma."
Festival Lectures
We are misusing our, that gift of independence, but for that reason, Kṛṣṇa cannot withdraw your independence. Just like you are independent citizen. You are... If somebody misuses that independence, he becomes a criminal, but still, the independence continues. You are criminal. You are punished. Again you are set free. That means you are given again independence. But again if you misuse, then again you are put into prison. Similarly, if the state cannot withdraw your independence, then what is the meaning of this independent country? How God can withdraw the independence He has given to you? That He will not withdraw. It is up to you to use your independence properly. That proper use of independence is to surrender unto... We are suffering, we are manufacturing so many philosophical ways, but actual position is—that is the statement of Bhagavad-gītā—that we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, God. We are not working according to our particular duty. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It has got a particular duty: to serve the whole body.
Similarly, this material nature, external energy of Kṛṣṇa, is Kṛṣṇa's. There is... Undoubtedly, it is Kṛṣṇa's. But that worm class of living entities, they are attracted by it. You see? So we should not be attracted. That should be our... Because we are not going to be worms of the stool. Kṛṣṇa, if He cannot... There are many arguments. If you ask question, "Why the government has created this criminal department?" Is that valid question? The jail department is criminal department, prison, where citizens are put into jail and given trouble. So if the prisoner says, "Why the American government has created this prison department?" is that valid question? The American government may create prison departments, but why you are interested there? Why you are going there? The real position is: because you are criminal, therefore government has to create such department.
Initiation Lectures
Not to all. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). God is equal to everyone. That is a fact. So far eating, sleeping, mating, these four principles are concerned, God is giving everyone. Just like government provides maintenance, provision, even in the prison life. That is not very important thing for government. But education department or other higher cultural department, that is not for all. Similarly, although God is equal to everyone, he's especially inclined to the devotees. Ye tu bhajanti māṁ prītyā teṣu te mayi. Those who are engaged in devotional service, He's specially inclined to him. And to him he gives instruction from within. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10). Satata means always. Twenty-four hours, one who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to him He gives instruction from within because he's qualified. Others, instruction He's giving, but other is not obeying the instruction. Just like a man is ready to commit some sinful activities. He thinks, "Shall I do it?" From within, "No, no. Don't do it." Again he says, "Why not? Let me do it." In this way, when he insists, oh, then He says, "All right, do it. Do it." So the word that "Nothing can happen without the sanction of God," that is a fact. Nobody can act anything... Then the question is why a man acts sinfully? Why...? Does God give sanction for sinful action? Yes. When one insists that "I shall do it." "All right, do it. And suffer the consequences."
General Lectures
Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a stage after liberation. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ means "I am now free from all material anxieties." That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. Just like a person suffering prison life for years together, and if he is given freedom, "Now you are free," how much delight he'll feel. "Oh, now I am free." You see? So that is the stage of brahma-bhūtaḥ. Prasannātmā, joyful, immediately. And what is the nature of joyfulness? Na śocati. Even in the great loss, there is no lamentation. And big profit, there is no jubilation, or there is no hankering. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ stage.
Suffering you cannot end in that way. Just the same example, that if you get out of the prison some way or other, that does not stop your suffering. As soon as you are arrested, you are put again. The law of nature is not so insignificant that simply by suiciding, you'll stop suffering. No. You have to accept again body and have to suffer.
So He is giving protection to everyone, generally. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Not only giving the human society—the animal society, the birds, trees, every... Don't you see it, how the arrangement is there? Everyone is living under certain conditions. Just like a prisoner. Prisoners are condemned, at the same time, given protection by the government. Within the prison walls they are protected. If somebody comes to kill them, government immediately calls for military or police to protect them. But because they are condemned, they are put into the prison. Similarly, all living entities, they are children, they are sons of God. So God is giving them all protection. Kṛṣṇa is giving them all protection. But by misuse of their little freedom, they are misusing, they are misusing their liberty. Therefore they are put into this material world. Otherwise, generally, the protection is there. Any other questions?
So there... In the śāstra there are great personalities. They have been mentioned. Just like Lord Brahmā, Nārada Muni, Lord Śiva, then Kumāras, then Kapila, Manu, and Prahlāda. Prahlādo janako bhīṣmo. Prahlāda Mahārāja is one of the great personalities who knows what is religion. So he practiced it. Unfortunately, he was born of a atheist father, Hiraṇyakaśipu. But by the grace of Nārada Muni he knew what is religion. You have seen in the play that when his mother was pregnant, the demigods were taking her to the prison just to keep her observation, that the child which is born of a atheist father, Hiraṇyakaśipu, may not be missed. They wanted to kill him also. But although he was born of an atheist father, demoniac father, he became a great devotee by the instruction of Nārada Muni. Nārada Muni took his poor mother. He asked the demigods, "Why you are harassing this lady? After all, she is woman. She is dependent." So by the order of Nārada Muni they let her go, and her husband was engaged in tapasya, so she had no protection. Therefore Nārada Muni took her at his āśrama and instructed her about God consciousness. That is the duty of saintly person. So Prahlāda Mahārāja, while he was within the womb of his mother, he heard all those instructions. His mother in due course of time—that is the nature of woman—she forgot the instruction. But Prahlāda Mahārāja remembered; therefore he became a great devotee. This is the history of Prahlāda Mahārāja.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: Does the condition of being entrapped, enhance the understanding of liberation?
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one understands that he is entrapped, there is no question of liberation. If he's in ignorance that this is the real life... Just like ordinary man, they think this is real life but we are giving education, "No, this is not real life. The real life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Śyāmasundara: Does someone who has been in prison and then he becomes free, does he appreciate his freedom more than someone who has always been free?
Prabhupāda: So, that's very easy to understand. You can apply the same thing in your life. That is not very difficult. Everyone can understand.
Śyāmasundara: So to enhance the understanding of freedom is it, if someone...
Prabhupāda: You come to the platform of freedom.
Śyāmasundara: But say one has always been free. His understanding...
Prabhupāda: No, why? So long as we are entrapped by this material body you are not free.
Prabhupāda: Just like when a man becomes a prisoner, he will be freed, he'll be a free man at the end of his term, and within this term he is simply kicked by the police, so that he may not come back again to prison house.
Śyāmasundara: But we can't predict that the process of punishment will have permanent effect, can we? Can we predict that? Many prisoners leave the prison, but some come back.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing as permanent. You can misuse your independence at any time.
Śyāmasundara: And come back.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Śyāmasundara: His conception of the soul, which he calls elan vital in French language, means the vital impulse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital..., this is living force, vital force. (indistinct), it is never addressed. God has (indistinct) for the mind, for the intelligence, for the body, God has (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: He says that the working of the world is ethically evil. For instance, he observes that...
Prabhupāda: To some extent that is all right, because when you are in prison life, you will find evil. But that evil is good for you, so that you can learn some lesson, and when you are out of the prison you will not come again. That is the blessings of evil.
Śyāmasundara: The blessings of evil.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: For instance in the animal kingdom, he observes the brutality of one animal eating another animal, and he says that this is life's pattern, one disappointment after another.
Prabhupāda: So, the worst brutal is the human being who is eating animals. Animals are called brutal because he is eating another animal, and the human being who is eating animal, he is the worst brutal, because in spite of his sense, he is violating. So therefore, he is the worst animal.
Śyāmasundara: The id is the most gross,
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mind is the beginning of subtle. Just like my senses are gross, but my senses are being controlled by the mind. The mind is the subtle element, but mind is controlled by intelligence, and intelligence is controlled by ego. So if the ego is false, then the whole thing is false. If I am thinking I am this body, this false identification, ego, then all other things which are coming out of this false ego, they are also false. Therefore it is called māyā, or illusion, because they are standing on false platform. Therefore the whole Vedic education is that you be relieved from this false platform and come to the real platform. That is called brahma-jñāna, real platform. And in Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, (indistinct). When one comes to that knowledge that I am spirit soul, than immediately he becomes happy. All this trouble is due to this false ego. Immediately he comes back. (indistinct) What does this mean? The blazing fire of material existence is immediately extinguished. These philosophers are simply describing the blazing fire of material existence. We are trying to get him out of the prison. That's all. Immediately he feels relief: "Oh, I am out of the fire." And within the fire, however you try to make him happy, how will he be happy? The fire is already there. Save him from the fire. Then he is happy. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, (indistinct). And in Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Then all murderers should be sent to medical college to become surgeons instead of condemning them. Why not?
Devotee: Or put them in the army.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Devotee: They do not like that now. They recruit for the army from the prison.
Devotee (2): (indistinct)
Devotee: But we have the higher...
Prabhupāda: To some extent that is all right, because therefore the kṣatriya race is there, the fighting spirit.
Śyāmasundara: Another part of Freud's theory is that there is a life instinct and a death instinct, that we all have these two instincts, and that the death instinct is the impulse toward aggression and destruction, whereas the life instinct is the impulse towards self-preservation and sex and procreation. He said that people have these two impulses, and those who have the death impulse to extreme often direct it against the self, so that you have people who have accidents and diseases, that is all self-inflicted; that because I get some disease or have some accident, that is my death instinct directed against myself. So he saw that...
Prabhupāda: That is suicidal policy.
Prabhupāda: So that means he must have the power to make decisions, right and wrong. That is responsible.
Śyāmasundara: The main thing, though, is that he must abide by his decision. Whatever he chooses, that he must live it.
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If I decide to steal, it is better to avoid it. Not that because I have to decided to steal, I must do it just like a hero and then go to prison.
Śyāmasundara: For Sartre there is no absolute right and wrong. Some of his main heroes are great thieves and debauchers, like there's one... What is his name?
Prabhupāda: Alexander. Alexander and the robber. There is a story that a robber was arrested by Alexander and there was talk between Alexander and the robber: "You proved that you are big robber, that's all. Why you are going to punish me?" And he was released: "Yes. I'm a big robber. I have no difference between you and me."
Śyāmasundara: So he says that we can remedy the whole situation of bad faith and being an unsavory character and treating myself as an object instead of a person by choosing for myself the person I ought to become.
Prabhupāda: Ideal person.
Śyāmasundara: He says that there is freedom of the will in two different senses. One, activity that is surely not subject to compulsion by extraneous forces, and... Activity that is merely not subject to compulsion by extraneous forces, and expression of integrated, self-directing persons acting in a purposeful, coherent way in order to serve the best interest of all. In other words there is the freedom of the will, which is merely not subject to extraneous forces, and there is also the self-directing free will, who is aware of ethical values, and he is...
Prabhupāda: That two cooperation, two kinds of cooperation is going on. Just like in a state a citizen is cooperating as a free citizen. The same citizen is cooperating in the prison by force. The jail superintendent says, "Now you break these bricks." He has to do; otherwise he'll be punished. He is cooperating by force. But this cooperation is inferior cooperation. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). By constitutional position, a living entity is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. In the Vaikuṇṭha jagat, the cooperation, the service is voluntary. And here in this material world the service is forced because it is māyā. Just like in the jail the service is there. One who declares that "I don't care for the government. I break all the laws." But he is put into jail. There is no question of breaking the laws, but by law he has to work forcibly. He has to do it. So here in this material world we are working under force of māyā. That is called daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). That force you cannot avoid. You cannot avoid. Only you can avoid when you voluntarily cooperate with Kṛṣṇa. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.
Hayagrīva: Augustine disagrees with Origen, who looked on the body as a prison. He says, "If the opinion of Origen and his followers where true, that matter was created, that souls might be enclosed in bodies as in penitentiaries for the punishment of sin, then the higher and lighter bodies should have been for those whose sins were slight, and the lower and heavier ones for those whose crimes were great." So...
Prabhupāda: That is Vedic conception. The soul, he, as he is, he is part and parcel of God, but he is imprisoned in different types of body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I am the seed-giving father of all different forms of life, and the mother, material nature is the mother." That is actually very logical. Through the matter different varieties of living entities are coming out. From water, from earth, from air, even from fire, ether, everywhere, sarva-gataḥ, life, living entities are visible. Therefore the combination of five elements—earth, water, fire, air—that is the body of the living entities. And the soul is the part and parcel of the Supreme, and the souls are impregnated within this material world by God, and they come out through the womb of the mother, nature or individual mother, whatever you say. The soul is coming out of matter but it is not matter. The living entities, part and parcel of God, assuming different types of body, either you say according to pious or impious activities, or according to his pious and impious desires. Vāsanāḥ. So the desire actually is the cause of higher and lower grades of body, but the soul is the same. Therefore those who are advanced in spiritual consciousness, they see the same soul in, in each and every body. Either in the body of a dog or in the body of a brāhmaṇa, the same soul is existing, but according to different desires and karma one gets a different types of body.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison—everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will.
Hayagrīva: In a sense he says that when one knows God he knows everything else, because...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he knows God and follows the instruction of God then he is right, and as soon as he goes against the instruction of God, then he is wrong. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: "Now I have given you all instruction. It is up to you to accept or reject." Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). That is free will. So now it depends on me whether I shall act according to the instruction of God or I shall act according to my whims, according to my sensual inclinations.
Hayagrīva: He says this one, supreme one, is therefore a despot, not a free man, not a man. Only the Germanic nations have in and through Christianity achieved the consciousness that man as man is free and that freedom of the spirit constitutes his very nature. This consciousness arose first in religion and the innermost region of spirit.
Prabhupāda: Christian religion is that the man either goes to heaven or goes to hell. So he has got the freedom either go to hell or go to heaven. This freedom he has got. But who gives him hell or heaven? He has got the freedom to make choice, but when he is going to hell, then where is his freedom? That where is the distinction between hell and heaven? These are... If he is Christian he should answer that the man is given chance, once, either to go to hell or go to heaven. So all right, if he goes to heaven it is all right. Then if he goes to hell, where is freedom? This common sense also, that every citizen has got the freedom to live as free citizen or to go to the jail, but one who goes to the jail, where is freedom? And who gives him the chance of free citizenship or prisoner's life? Therefore his freedom is dependent on somebody, higher principle, who gives him chance to remain free or go to prison. That God is the supreme controller. He gives the living entity freedom to make his choice, either go to hell or go to heaven, but he is not completely free as God is free.
| Page Title: | Prison (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 17 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=58, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 58 |