Prime minister (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"prime minister" |"prime minister's" |"prime ministers" |"prime ministership"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is that they have no standard idea, their. So they can do anything. And because they are in power, they can pass law whimsically, whatever he likes. (break) ...that bābu candra mantrī. (?) You know this?

Acyutānanda: "Many kings and many..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bābu candra rāya. It is a sarcastic word, bābu, bābu candra. Mean a foolish...

Acyutānanda: Foolish king.

Prabhupāda: And bābu candra mantrī. Another foolish mantrī. One, one foolish, king; another foolish is ministers. So that is going on. All the rascals, they are getting vote. One is becoming president, another is becoming the prime minister. But both of them are rascals.

Acyutānanda: The, the law they are passing now is that the president and prime minister under no case can be brought in court.

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is good.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Yaśodānandana: I think that some of the comments of Your Divine Grace, some of the purports of the Fourth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if they come to the notice of the Indian government, it may give us some... They may seriously consider about banning, because in that one purport you openly criticize how unfortunate the citizens are because they have a woman as the prime minister, and in another purport you openly say that the citizens should keep their, some of their treasury secret, which is against the principle of their income tax.

Prabhupāda: So, I have... There is no support in the śāstra?

Guru-kṛpā: There is support, but according to their idea and their so-called...

Prabhupāda: Then they confront Bhāgavata. Bhāgavatam...

Children: "Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda! Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Acyutānanda: ...neighborhood, Cāṇakya...

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll imitate.

Devotee (1): When the prime minister of Canada, when he was, when he first began running, he was a young bachelor, very good looking, long hair. And he sent around girls in mini-skirts, kissing men on the cheeks, giving them a little candy for his campaign, and he, he almost got all the votes, became the prime minister.

Dayānanda: We were talking yesterday how nice this story of Prahlāda Mahārāja is, because no matter how great a demon becomes, still, he cannot vanquish the devotees, even if the devotee is a very insignificant little boy, only five years old. These demons seem so...

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Madhudviṣa: ...gave one flower to the prime minister of Australia.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Madhudviṣa: He gave her a donation.

Prabhupāda: Mm.

Akṣayānanda: How much did he give?

Madhudviṣa: I don't know how much he gave, but he gave a donation.

Akṣayānanda: Did he get a book?

Madhudviṣa: Yes, she gave him our magazine.

Devotee (1): (indistinct)

Madhudviṣa: There was no security.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...next life, on account of his sinful activities he, if he becomes a dog in the same land, then what is the benefit? Everyone will treat him as dog, even though somebody knows: "This dog was formerly our prime minister." (laughter) Then what is the benefit? To remain in the prime minister's post, and next life he's going to be a dog, then what is the benefit?

Devotee: Hardly any.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Discuss amongst yourselves. This is the point. We have got a short duration of life, and we declare independence of the laws of nature, laws of God, and do whatever we like, and as a result of our activities, we are obliged to accept a body which is not desirable. Then where is my independence? Why do they think they are independent and act independently? Is it not foolishness? Discuss amongst yourselves.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is printed by the Indian community, one man, Anand Singh, and he included part of an article from the Back to Godhead magazine. There's one article in here also, the front page is a whole.... There's a racket they had going, these people, this man. He went to India and he found one widow, and he said, "I am a personal friend of the Prime Minister of Canada. Give me money, I'll take you to Canada. You can come. I'll make sure you get immigration status." So she came with him to Canada, and then he started blackmailing her, "Give me this much money every day, otherwise I'll reveal that you're an illegal immigrant, and you'll be in trouble with the government." And eventually it became such a burden that he simply killed her, cut her into three pieces and killed her. Then they found parts of different bodies like this, and they finally found the man.

Prabhupāda: The woman was killed?

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not play, that is real love. Just like father sometimes becomes a horse, and the child rides over, and father enjoys. There is a story about Prime Minister Gladstone. He was prime minister, so many people come to him. So one man came and the doorman said, "He is now busy. Wait." So he was waiting for one hour. Then he became impatient; he wanted to see what this gentleman is doing. So he saw that he has become a horse, and his grandchild is driving him. So why the prime minister had become a horse to take back his grandchild on the back and enjoy? Is it a horse? This is out of love, enjoying. He was not wasting time. The other visitors were waiting. This is love. So to revive that natural life is the opportunity in human life. We have distributed our love in so many material things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and directly speaks that "You withdraw all these nonsense activities." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). "Try to love Me.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's going to become a dog next life and if he does not take precaution, then he is not envying himself? In this life you are prime minister, and next life, you are preparing to become a dog, so what is the use of becoming prime minister? You could not save yourself. Nature's law will go on. You may become prime minister or any minister, but the law will act. If you have infected some disease, so the disease will develop. It doesn't matter whether you are prime minister or this minister. So these rascals say they do not know it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. This low-grade birth, high-grade birth, why it is happening? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as I heard that prime minister went to open this, I immediately...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda didn't want to meet him.

Prabhupāda: "Oh, he's a rascal."

Hari-śauri: In Mauritius the prime minister opened a chicken factory.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's a Hindu too.

Prabhupāda: Immediately I gave up the idea of meeting this rascal. (break)

Hari-śauri: Of course, they'll always try to claim...

Prabhupāda: From our estimation it is failure. They have not gone there.

Prabhupāda: But what is their standard of failure and success?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). These things are unknown. Very risky life. If I am prime minister in this life or president, and if I am going to become a dog next life, then what is the benefit of becoming prime minister or president? And nature's law is that you get your next life according to the mentality at the time of death. So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death. Then next life is cats and dogs. So I may be worshiped here in a statue, that "Here is our beloved prime minister," and next life, I'm barking as a dog. Then what is the benefit?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Mr. Boyd: Well, that might depend on what kind of prime minister you were.

Prabhupāda: No, that is possible, I can become prime minister or any big man. But if I do not work properly, if I work like animal, then my next life is animal. There is no consideration that "Here is a prime minister, why he should become a dog?" Nature will act. If you infect some disease, you may be prime minister or you may be a common man, if you have infected that disease, you must suffer from that disease. That is nature's law. There is no consideration that "Here is prime minister. He has infected the malaria germs. He should not suffer." Nature's law if not like that. Just like you say that in India there is malaria. So your daughter was not excused, that "Here is a girl coming of very respectable, good family. She should be excused." No excuse. You have infected malaria germ, you must suffer. So similarly, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). We are associating with different modes of material nature, and according to our association, sat, asat, good birth or low-class birth is there—either as demigods in the higher planetary system or human being in the middle planetary system or as animals, low class.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Thailand silk.

Devotee (1): Yes. He has invited me to go to Thailand to meet the Prime Minister in October.

Prabhupāda: Oh, if there is an interview, you must go.

Devotee (1): Yes. Perhaps you would like to tell me on what level I should present our movement.

Prabhupāda: On the level of Bhagavad-gītā. God is the supreme controller. And we have to learn how to remain peacefully under the supreme controller. Just like citizens and the government. Good citizenship means one who lives under the control of the government. Similarly, a good person is one who is God conscious and lives according to the instruction of God. So there is instruction of God, we are presenting this all over the world.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Devotee (1): He has said that first I should come and speak to the Prime Minister and then speak at the University, and then see the reaction, and then we can go to see the king and say that this has been the reaction at the universities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Do it organizedly. They understand French language?

Devotee (1): Yes, English and French. They are very close to Vietnam.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Take this opportunity.

Devotee (1): Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (end)

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to makes many plans, satisfy so many ministers, so many. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he's attracted for the grain, but he's looking this way, "Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me." So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have adopted this material life, asad, our mind should always be full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work. So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: He was prime minister for about ten days.

Prabhupāda: Yes, for a few days. He was a very prominent member in the cabinet, and now see. So planning, you make so many plans, but it requires sanction. That planning is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Bālasya neha śaraṇaṁ pitarau nṛsiṁha nārtasya cāgadam udanvati majjato nauḥ. In this way, there is a verse, that we are planning, that every parent is planning how his child will be grown nice, educated, but it becomes different. Every father, mother plan that "My child should be like this." But he is becoming hippie. When there is somebody diseased, rich man, he is planning to save him, best physician, best medicine supplied, but he's dying. So what is the value of your planning? Your planning is... That's all right. That's your duty. But it requires the sanction of some higher authority. Otherwise useless. That is your position. You may make plan, but unless it is sanctioned by the higher authority, then it is useless. That is practically going on.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Simply one who does this. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyam (Bg 18.68). What is that paramaṁ guhyam? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all nonsense. Surrender to Me." This is paramaṁ guhyam. And they are simply manufacturing nonsense. So the time is very bad, but nature's law is very strict. We may defy it, "There is no God, there is no next birth, there is no nothing." We may say like that, but when death will come, you cannot say anything. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). Bas, all your talkings, all your intelligence taken away. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Immediately transferred to another body. Daiva-netreṇa. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). "No, no, I am Prime Minister!" "No, you must become a dog." Immediately. How can you protest? You cannot protest. You have acted like dog, just become a dog. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya. Just like your medical science, you have infected the disease, you must suffer disease. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ, guṇa-saṅgaḥ. There's infection.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: Very important for Bengal. Bengal is the most important state, and he has very prominent position to the Prime Minister as advisor.

Jayapatākā: So at that time, I couldn't write him a letter. He had written that..., something which made Mr. Choudhuri very angry. He wrote something which made Mr. Choudhuri very angry. Made also the Chief Secretary angry. He wrote...

Gargamuni: No, who wrote?

Jayapatākā: The Chief Minister wrote. He said, "Because of the impassioned... He said "I would have refused this application except for the impassioned appeal of one of my senior officers, namely Mr. Choudhuri. They are asking for three hundred acres of land but the East India Company, they asked only twenty acres of land and they have conquered the whole of India." (loud kīrtana in background)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Ten or fifteen people so that they may go and see and all these things and then they can also, if any question comes in the House then they can oppose like anything. And they should submit their report also to the Prime Minister, Home Minister, to everybody and to House also. And this thing has been done and we must be proud about that, that some...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And to start out they can come to Vṛndāvana which is right nearby. We can take them in a bus. We have a beautiful center in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And Māyāpur, Vṛndāvana.

Krishna Modi: Yes, that because this is in India. Whenever they like, they will see it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So when can they organize this tour? How soon can it be organized?

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Parliament. All photograph (laughter) actually. Downing Street, 10 Downing Street, Prime Minister's office and so on. And actually it's all (chuckles) no importance. Parliament, big, big advertisement. People are still going, they are paying fees to see.

Hari-śauri: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Now that is their income.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, tourism is their big source of income, now.

Prabhupāda: It is always cloudy; people are going to see the West Minister Abbey and Parliament.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Now, here is intelligence. This boy has got intelligence; therefore he can see, behind this flower there is God. He immediately answered. That is intelligence. He is not seeing God, but he's seeing God. God is not present face to face but it doesn't matter. Just like the prime minister of our country, she may not be present here but that does not mean that she is not there. She is there. So these rascals say, "Can you show me God?" How can you see Him? By intelligence. Just like this fan is running. The powerhouse is not here but intelligent man will understand that there is electric powerhouse from where the electricity energy is supplied and therefore the fan is running. By the running of the fan, one can understand that there is a big powerhouse and there is an electric engineer there who is conducting the business. That is sufficient, to see the running of the fan. That is intelligence.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So what is this nonsense. This should not be... He should not accompany. He's taking advantage of it.

Guest (4): He's also directly associated with the Prime Minister, this young man. Chandra Swami.

Dr. Patel: The Prime Minister is the greatest Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Māyāvādī means māyā has taken his knowledge. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. 99% they are Māyāvādīs.

Guest (4): Swamiji, what about missionaries who are working in India who are coming from abroad and they are actually exploiting. If they put a charge against our institution, well, we can definitely say that we are motivating the intellect to take into the higher stage of life. Here the missionaries who come, they go in the backward areas and those who are not learned, those who are practically uneducated... I mean, their mission is to convert them in Christianity.

Room Conversation -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: In England also they have a woman Prime Minister for the first time.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: She's a leader of the opposition.

Hari-śauri: No, she was the Prime Minister as well. She's the opposition now.

Prabhupāda: Woman is acting as police in England.

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles there was this one man at the temple that we suspected that he had a gun. So we called the police. It is a difficult job for police when someone has a gun. They always send the best men. So a car pulled up and a woman got out, and she crept up on the man to arrest him and the men stayed in the car.

Prabhupāda: Everything is becoming a farce. (pause) What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are just some letters I'm sending with Rādhā-vallabha to Los Angeles.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is a politics. You must be worried. You must be worried. That is material world. So so long you are in the material platform, you must be worried. There is no exception. And I have seen in that time, how much worried she was at that time. Yes. So it does not mean because she is Prime Minister, there is no worry. It is not possible.

Guest (1): She's very worried.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried.

D. D. Desai: More worried. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Yes, I think there is some government.

Prabhupāda: There is. But that... It is not... There is no representative of government, but still, we are under the government. This is avyakta. The government is there, but it doesn't mean that the prime minister or the president is there. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but He says, māyā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is closed?

Hari-śauri: Yes. The year before they got kicked out, I was distributing magazines at one political rally. The Prime Minister came to Perth. And when he came there all the farmers came, and they were so angry, they were throwing rotten eggs at him and tin cans and all kinds of things.

Prabhupāda: The farmers.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Rāmeśvara: They devalued the Australian dollar very much. The Australian dollar used to be worth maybe...

Prabhupāda: More than American dollar.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And they are trying to save harassment by nature's law. That is impossible. That is ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā, rascal, and under false prestige they are trying to save themselves. And ultimately crushed—death. Struggling, struggling... Now, last word—death. Finish. Now, according to your karma, "All right, you just become a tree." Finish. "Stand up here for five thousand years." This is nature's... And these rascal scientists have no knowledge of this, "Wherefrom the tree comes? Why the tree is standing there for five thousand years, and I have got good car? Why this difference of position? He is also living entity; I am also." They have no brain. That is also living entity. "This tree is dead." Dead means it has life. So wherefrom the life came? Who made him a tree and made him a prime minister? Who made him? They cannot answer all these questions. Simply blindly following their own mental concoction. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is there.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: He's a Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: I first of all approached him for publishing my book. So he said that "I have no arrangement for publishing nice English book." So he recommended Dalmia to help me publish it. So my first expenditure was six thousand rupees. So he gave me four thousand. In Dalmia Trust, he was one of the members, this Poddar. So he immediately rubbered that, that "Give Swamiji for the first publication." But I did not know that it would be six thousand rupees. I thought maybe four, five thousand. So he gave me four thousand, I think. So balance, two thousand, I repaid after selling the books.

Morning Walk -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being. Just like dog receives his master, "Gow, gow, gow, gow." (makes growling sounds) So what is that reception, dog's reception? Similarly, these intelligent men are intelligent amongst a class of men who are compared with dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. If some man praises them that "You are so big. You are so big leader," he's also amongst this group. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. This is grave thing. Let understand it, that anyone who is godless, who has no idea what is God, he is a rascal. Immediately take him that he's a rascal. He may be prime minister, he may be president, he may be scientist, but we shall take him as rascal number one. This is our first understanding. Bokā. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, bokā. So at that time I was thinking, "Everyone is bokā?" (laughing) Guru Mahārāja says, "Everyone..." "Even Rabindranath Tagore, he is also bokā?" Later on I could under..., "Yes. Everyone is bokā."

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is another difficulty. For general calculation a man can live up to a hundred years in this age. So in the middle, stop all rascaldom-compulsory. Now take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you are persistent to continue your rascaldom, all right, do it up to this point. And then stop all this. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is a concession for continuing the rascaldom. But if he's so fool that he will continue the rascaldom as Jawaharlal Nehru did and Gandhi did and Hitler did and-up to the point of death—let him do. What can be done? They will continue their rascaldom. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Gandhi, unless he was killed by his own men, he did not retire. Jawaharlal Nehru, when he was just... There is no other way. He was in Dehra Dun, still Prime Minister, and he was brought very quickly from Dehra Dun to Delhi, and after one hour he died. All these politicians... And it is learned that he has become a dog in Scandinavia. You cannot say, "No,"

Room Conversation -- February 10, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to give them protection. So when we avoid envious persons, that is the injunction of the śāstras. This man wrote to the chief minister or prime minister complaining about them?

Jayapatākā: About his electric connection.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Jayapatākā: That Mahesh Pandit. You're talking about the man of Mahesh Pandit?

Prabhupāda: No, no. This Dāmodara Mahārāja.

Jayapatākā: The chief minister.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: At that time not Churchill. Attlee, Attlee was Prime Minister.

Brahmānanda: In Africa, Nehru, he was instructing the African leaders also how to get...

Prabhupāda: Freedom.

Brahmānanda: Freedom. So they all allowed the Indian example. So the British, they were very resentful against the Indians.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now British making "Drive away. Drive away the Indians."

Brahmānanda: They became the leaders of the independence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even now they are still resentful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Not to mix with ordinary men, aratir jana, general public. Just like this, our place—only devotion. This is vivikta, aloof from this world. We have no other business except Kṛṣṇa consc..., bhakti. And aratir jana-saṁsadi, no, mean, association with ordinary person, no association. We can go and talk of some..., for our own benefit or Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we have no business with them. Noncooperation. We go to the public for preaching, not to associate with them. To give them association, so they may be benefited. Either he may be prime minister or this or that, we have no business with them. But for our purpose we go. Big, big karmīs, life member. So we have no personal concern, but for their benefit we go there. Their hard-earned money, if something is spent for this purpose, he'll be benefited. This is our... Otherwise we have no business with them. Aratir jana-saṁsadi. Then?

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So the sum and substance is that I have got the opportunity of human form, everyone, and they should not be kept in the same animal consciousness. This is civilization. They should be raised to the standard of inquiring. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is civilization. This, civilization? To keep them in darkness? Hm? Sanātana Gosvāmī went to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. The first question is ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. "Sir, I was prime minister, and I was very much eulogized by the people as paṇḍita." Grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita tāi satya māni. "These village people, they call me paṇḍita, and I also, such a fool, I accept, 'Yes, I am paṇḍita. Yes.' But factually, if I inquire, 'What kind of paṇḍita'? then āpanāra hitāhita kichui nā jāni: 'I am such a learned paṇḍita that I do not know what is the ultimate goal of my life. I am such a paṇḍita.'

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the position of Jagajīvana now?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are going to have two Deputy Prime Ministers. But I do not think Morarji Desai will stay Prime Minister for more than one or two years, because he's eighty-one years of age.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: That depends upon health only. If one is not healthy, he may not remain there, and if he's healthy, he may remain even four years. He's one of the healthiest men in India today at his age. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: It's your wheat grass.

Karttikeya Mahadevia:. No, he's not doing wheat grass, but he is taking only fruits and vegetables and no cooked food. So he's following what I am telling him to do. I have sent my books.

Bali-mardana: He is a personal friend.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And print it. Wherever you go, you'll get order.

Gargamuni: Yes. Especially now the new prime minister is emphasizing Hindi literature and the study of the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: And send him one copy.

Gargamuni: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Request him that introduce this Hindi Bhāgavatam to all government officers.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Girirāja: I spoke to Mr. Rajda on the telephone this morning. So he has already spoken to the Prime Minister about your meeting, and the Prime Minister gladly accepted.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Girirāja: So he told him that you weren't able to come to Delhi now. So I told him that he should again speak to him that when he comes to Bombay, he can meet you here. So Mr. Rajda said that there is no difficulty in arranging that, and that he would speak to the Prime Minister today.

Prabhupāda: He wants me to meet there in Delhi.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He wants me to meet there in Delhi.

Girirāja: No. He is going to arrange for the Prime Minister to meet you here in Bombay, at Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Immediately one copy send to Mr. Rajda.

Girirāja: Now Mr. Rajda is coming tomorrow for one day.

Prabhupāda: So let him meet me, appoint him, give him some time. Invite him for prasādam. With his associates.

Girirāja: He is coming in the morning and leaving in the evening.

Prabhupāda: So daytime he can take...

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Girirāja said that the Prime Minister also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's Morarji Desai. That Ratan Singh Rajda had said that. Morarji Desai told Ratan Singh Rajda. Jaya Prakash Narayan is the most important man in the country now. He is like Mahatma Gandhi.

Guest (1): He is Mahatma Gandhi's second man, father of the nation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We saw him just now, Girirāja and myself. He was very favorable, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and we showed him your books.

Prabhupāda: He knows about our movement?

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sheik Abdullah, the prime minister there, Kashmir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is he a chief minister or prime minister?

Prabhupāda: Chief minister.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kashmir is part of India, a province. (pause) Then if you get your health back in May, that will be very nice. Regarding that tīrtha yatra, this going in the monsoon, it doesn't seem like a good time. June and July, those are not good months for touring India.

Prabhupāda: No, if we get good response, we can spend little more.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading newspaper) "Distressed Nanda could come... Mr. Gujarilal Nanda, former home minister and acting prime minister, has resigned from the Congress after his close association with the party for fifty-six years. But he has let it be known that he is not joining any other party. His resignation is a protest against the failure of the Congress leaders to learn the bitter lesson of the recent chain of events. 'The growing dissensions and acute hostilities among warring factions have given me a severe jolt,' he says in a statement. 'I can see no prospect of abatement of these unseemly encounters and any effective role for myself.' Mr. Nanda, who is seventy-six, says that 'The Gandhian modes and principles are as relevant and valid for the future of the country as they were in the past, and this is the path for me.' Mr. Nanda released the text of three letters he wrote to Mrs. Indira Gandhi on June 27th, July 19th, 1975, and January 21, 1976. In his first letter Mr. Nanda said, 'I have been greatly troubled by the developments during recent weeks. What is happening now must cause deep concern to everyone in the country. I do not comprehend the full import of the measures that have been taken during the last two days, and the consequences they may bring in their train.' On January 21st, 1976, he wrote to Mrs. Gandhi, 'The present circumstances call for some new initiative. The people would expect this to come again from you, considering the position of vantage and eminence which you have occupied. It is your responsibility to guard the vital interests of the nation. On this account, there is room for necessary precautions and exercise of special powers in certain specific fields.' "

Prabhupāda: What is that picture?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "Handicapped though, these foursome make a cheerful group as they paddle along on three wheelers every day from their homes in the King George Memorial Infirmary on Jagtap Marga, Maha-Lakshmi." Some invalids. "Mr. Jaya Prakash Narayan in a statement on Sunday came out strongly against the attempts of some people to lobby through him for personal favors and advancements from the Janata party government center." He doesn't like it. Everyone is going to him now. (pause) "The aim and object of the 42nd constitutional amendment was stated to be to establish the supremacy of the legislature, but in fact it was designed to establish the absolute authority of the executive as personified by the Prime Minister, according to Mr. C. K. Dapteri, former attorney general of India. Mr. Dapteri said, 'Everyone knows that misuse to which the power of preventative detention has been put in the last eighteen months. It is not necessary to recall or relay instances. But the power itself is so easily capable of being put to wrong use that it is unsafe to leave it in the hands of the executive government.' "

Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Upset in Fiji. The Fijian government formed by the National Federation Party, which draws its support mainly from the people of Indian origin, will have to tread warily if it is to avert racial tension in the islands. It was by no means easy, even for the multiracial alliance party which hitherto ruled the South Pacific republic, to maintain harmony between the people of Indian origin who form fifty-one percent of the population, and the indigenous Melanesians. Its leader and the former Prime Minister Ratu Sir Pamish Nara had to strain every nerve to keep the extremist Melanesians in check."

Prabhupāda: The Prime Minister is lightie?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Why she was silent." This is from the Readers View column. "In the farewell talk she gave to the outgoing Communist Party members of Parliament, Mrs. Indira Gandhi is reported to have told them that she was to blame for the rout, but she does not mention what is common talk among people everywhere, and especially among the village folk: her connivance at the build-up of her son Sanjay Gandhi as the probable future prime minister of India. Mrs. Indira Gandhi's refusal throughout the last two years to face the facts about her son's inordinate ambitions has shocked most of her admirers. Could she not see that this get-rich-quick son of a mother who swore by Garibihato, as the person running the maruti,(?) was playing ducks and drakes with money taken in advance from motor agents for a people's car which has still to come on the road? Was she unaware that he was put next to the late president of India on the flagship of the Indian navy at the naval parade, though he has no position in the government of our country? And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in the exercise of executive authority in many matters of appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to the pandals by her chief ministers to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called? Those of us who knew her father are sanguined that Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order."

Prabhupāda: He wanted.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting. She also knows that she was elected to the high office of Prime Minister and not imposed from the top, as Sanjay Gandhi was sought to be imposed by the gestures eloquent enough for all the sundry to understand. We hope that she will accept her Himalayan blunders in the spirit of Gandhiji and she might persuade herself to retire to Vinod Bhave's āśrama and brood long enough to (indistinct) prior power to be (indistinct) to everybody."

Prabhupāda: (break) ...now by Kṛṣṇa's mercy only she is finished. Yes. Wonderfully finished. Without Kṛṣṇa's hand, it was impossible. We never expected. Samūla-chāṅṭā.(?) There is one word, samūla-chāṅṭā. Just like you cut one tree, this is one, but the root remains there: again the tree. Samūla-chāṅṭā means to get out the root, pluck out the tree with the root and throw it. So this woman has been done like that.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: (reads newspaper) "The farewell talk she gave to the outgoing Congress party members of Parliament, Mrs. Indira Gandhi was reported to have told that she was to blame for the rout. (Times of India, March 29th, 30th) She seems to have accepted her failure to assess her injury cause to the sentiments and feelings of the masses in the area where many excesses were committed during the emergency. And a failure of the Congress organization to fine against (indistinct) during the emergency and before. But she does not mention what is common talk amongst people everywhere, and especially among the village folk. Her connivance at the buildup of her son Sanjay Gandhi as the probable future prime minister of India...."

Prabhupāda: Probable?

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Probable?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Future prime minister.

Prabhupāda: That everyone will say.

Bhakti-caru: (break) "And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in exercise of executive authority in many matters appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to her family by her chief minister to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called. Those of us who knew her father are sanguined at Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order. When Mrs. Gandhi was elected president of the Congress, we recall that her father first disapproved of the proposal made by S. K. Patila at a Bombay meeting." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is to bring her in limelight again, Indira.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's purposely there. Actually, that's a fact. It seems like now they are purposely not...

Prabhupāda: Mentioned.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is a dangerous civilization. You... You should... (pause) Dangerous civilization that labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many millions of years one gets the chance of becoming a human being, especially civilized and especially in India. They will bring the same. And Kṛṣṇa personally says that if this chance is missed and a person does not become God realized, then he again returns back to the..., to the... Today I am a prime minister. Tomorrow, if I become a dog... What is this civilization? And they will have to become. Nature's law we cannot avoid. And there is no question, "Why you are touching me? I am prime minister." Who cares for you? You have to take account of your activities, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1).

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, before that I met him.

Indian (1): Now Your Grace will have to speak either with the prime minister straight, and he will swiftly done.

Mr. Rajda: No, that was the... The prime minister himself will nullify(?). No, he will immediately grasp what is the... 'Cause I have already talked...

Prabhupāda: When I was in Delhi, there was one day a meeting at Brahmananda's place, so I personally requested. So he noted down. That's all. So he's the chief man, home member.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I said "Who understands this meaning of one line?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They really think that Morarji is a big religious man. They are very happy to think that their prime minister now is very, very religious. They are very pleased to think like that.

Prabhupāda: I said that my disciples rise at 3:30 and worship till 9:30. He said that he rises at 3:30 and three hours for... So I immediately said, "They are engaging twenty-four hours."

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we don't engage in politics for the other nineteen hours. Of course, I mean, I never would have said anything, but the fact is that this is not the business of one who is eighty-four years old, to be the prime minister. It is better if he were to take up preaching Bhagavad-gītā. You gave that advice to Gandhi. He could do more good then.

Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the important shastric references in regard to developing an article on cheating?

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (2): Only the government can do it. Any government, even if it is a small country. Therefore I said political power plays an important role in this. Whether it is Nepal, whether it is in Indian, certain circumstances, one should meet on a national level. (indistinct) We can have a small function and speak to the Prime Minister.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One group that can go is our theater group.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, that may be right. Theater group go to show that it is an Indian culture program and try to sell the most of this Bhagavad-gītā and Rāmāyaṇa and Bhāgavatam. Because they are themselves, Russians, have come with a troupe and played Rāmāyaṇa in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: This one is Mr. Charan Singh addressing a press conference in Delhi on Monday, Charan Singh, Indian Prime Minister. (Hindi) "The passport of Mr. Sanjay Gandhi, Mr. Motilal, and Mr. Dhirendra Brahmacari, who runs a yoga center here, have been impounded. Official sources also said here today the necessary instructions have been issued in this regard to the concerned authorities."

Prabhupāda: Impound? Impound? What is the impounding?

Bhakti-caru: Cancelled today.

Prabhupāda: Where there is?

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: New Delhi. (Bengali) "The instructions have been issued in this regard to Assam authorities. Mr Brahmacari is known to be close to Mr. Sanjay Gandhi." "Morarji Wants Prices. The Prime Minister, Mr. Morarji Desai, today promised in a radio broadcast to check the recent rise in prices on certain goods. 'If necessary by comparing quotas in the current stocks and even by imports, where feasible.' Mr. Desai observed that prices had declined since between February 25 and the end of March but have again increased in the last few weeks in the case of essential goods like oil seeds, cotton, edible oil, til, pulses and food grains. This has raised apprehensions in the minds of (indistinct). Some traders and some stockists have taken advantage of the shortage of certain commodities to increase prices. The form of exploitation would not be tolerated. The Prime Minister said that 'Lifting of the emergency does not mean that traders should try and make extra profits. That will hinder them in the eyes of the law, the people and government. I should like to emphasize that the ordinary law of the land is sufficient to deal with any antisocial conduct.' "

Prabhupāda: They should severe punishment. Then... We shall see.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali?) "Ninety murders in one district."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So master can accept service. So whenever there is devotional service, it is called bhāgavata-sevā. And jīvera dayā. (Hindi) If you have got something, then you can be merciful to others. If you have no knowledge, what you can do? The basic principle... (Hindi) In India, Bhāratavarṣa, exalted knowledge, and if it is presented properly, people will accept. They are accepting now, one man's effort. If many men are prepared to do this service, the whole world will be followers of Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) (break) ... come to give here India's knowledge. In big meeting I told him that "I have not come here to beg. I have come here to give." Everyone goes from... Even the Prime Minister goes-beg. All beggars. And it is known as "beggars' nation." But you can be the giver nation. You have got so much potency. But we are not training people in that way. They are learning dog dancing. That's all. If we simply understand this one word, beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā...

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: Going to try to phone Mr. Rajda. And considering that the Prime Minister may not have that much time... We had discussed that he should come here to meet you, but suppose if we fix up, say, a minimum time if he can't come here, say at least a half hour undisturbed, something like that, is it possible to fix in the city or we should just insist that...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's suggesting that if the Prime Minister can't give that much time, whether you would go to see him? Actually, if you give the idea that Prabhupāda wants to see him in the morning hours...

Girirāja: Yeah, I'm going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, if he says that that's not possible...

Prabhupāda: That is not respectful.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Did... He demanded like that?

Girirāja: No. When I spoke to Mr. Rajda I said that the Prime Minister should come here, and Mr. Rajda agreed. But just now, when I... I just spoke to Gopāla. I was on my way to make the call. So he said that I should just ask you about this.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Girirāja: I was just going to phone, and I mentioned to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu that I was going to make this call. So I said that, you know, the Prime Minister was going to be coming here, so he... And I said that I also, in the call I wanted to make that very clear so there was no mistake. And he said that, well, he might be too busy to come here and that he...

Prabhupāda: Gopāla said.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: They do not know anything. And they're keeping them in ignorance and bluffing them in so many ways. The whole duty, I am going... If I am going to accept another body, then where is the question of my nationalism? If I am eternal... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate na mriyate vā. If I do not take my birth, if I do not die, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), and I'll have to accept another body, then, so long I have got this body, I may be big politician, big philanthropist, but next life, if I am going to be dog, then where is the value of this prime ministership, big, big...? And where is my nation? Where is my country? Where is my family? So things are going on in ignorance. And they are kept in ignorance. And big, big worship, your... Nānuśocanti. This is going on. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for reforming all these nonsense activities. This is sum and... Everyone's kept in ignorance, and being frustrated, they want to make it zero. Where is zero? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to study the Indian constitution. It is defective because by the same constitution our present Prime Minister was put into custody for nineteen months. And we are working on the same constitution. So the constitution itself is defective. Anything man-made will be defective.

Indian man (3): It will never be perfect.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting that "Take the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. You'll be perfect. Don't manufacture."

Indian man (5): You can't have that in authoritarianism. You get that in Delhi, where they feel that they are authority.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies. They are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like, inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. (Hindi) Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is giving you good chance. Develop farm and have temple. Go on enthusiastically.

Mahāṁśa: This morning I read in the newspapers about the exodus to village soon by the Prime Minister, and there the Prime Minister says that he is eager on developing village programs to establish agriculture facilities and village programs.

Prabhupāda: That is real work. If the Prime Minister has got this thing in his brain, then I can understand that he can do so.

Mahāṁśa: And this is a very nice thing he said, Prabhupāda. He said that "We want to improve things in the countryside to an extent that people from the cities start running to the villages."

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Simply propaganda not to beget children. "Enjoy sex life." What is this horrible civilization?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's come in India. This new prime minister, he still says, "Our goal is," I think, "twelve million sterilizations this year," and he's holding Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: A horrible position. People have lost their freedom, their culture, spiritual life. Here so much care is taken for children, and they are so opulent. They are fully opulent and spending money lavishly for the welfare of the child. And they are spending money lavishly in the hotels, in the brothels, in slaughterhouse, the liquor shop, and kill. And this is going on as civilization.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct-bad tape) (break) So now our next business is to bring students, brahmacārī. So easy process is to approach wealthy(?) gentleman. In their family there are many children, one, two, three, like that. So approach them and plead them that "Children from your family are expected to be very respectable boys, character and devotee, educated. From your family, people expect like that. According to Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction, he says, ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. 'What is the use of begetting children like cats and dogs?' The children must be vidvān, that is, learned, and bhaktimān, devotee. This is the ideal. And what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. Either he should be bhaktimān or vidvān. This vidvān and bhaktimān, that is ideal. So we are going to teach your son to become vidvān and bhaktimān. So don't you like to bring your son?" You have to tell them like that. And present it rightly. The Prime Minister and her son or his son, he is debauch number one. Do you think the society can be happy? The father and mother is Prime Minister, and the son is a debauch number one. What is this? That is going on.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. It is open to everyone. Simply one has to know. And where is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself. So know yourself, let your sons know, and you become free. Everything is there. So that ideal we want to give to the world. So throughout the whole world we cannot find out five hundred students? So what kind of manager? Hm? This is ideal civilization, that people are suffering mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). The human life is meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa and stop this repetition of birth and death. That is ideal. Kṛṣṇa says plainly that "If you do not take advantage of My instruction, then mām aprāpya: you'll not get Me." "So what is the loss? I don't get You?" Now, nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani. "Then you'll be again entangled in this birth and death." "What is the wrong there?" "Now, today, you are Prime Minister.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This idea, that "My son should be B.A., M.A., Ph.D.," it is wrong idea. Why? What is there, Ph.D.'s? First of all one must earn. Self-preservation is the first law of... But not... The Marwaris used to do that in Calcutta. Many pakorā. No business—he was frying pakorā and selling. Why unemployment? This is disastrous, unemployment. As soon as there is unemployment, there are so many devils. They'll plan. And the first plan will come-wine and woman. So we want to save the society from this downfall. At least keep one ideal. And that is our mission. Otherwise there was no nece... But at the present moment they cannot take so much trouble. We are trying to give them as much as possible comfortable life, but become an ideal vidvān and bhaktimān. That is required. Otherwise it is animal society. Prime Minister's son is a debauch, rogue, thief. They are not ashamed even. And people are adoring him: "O Sanjay, you are Indira Gandhi's son. I take your blessing." Doing practically. He was very much anxious to see Sanjay Gandhi. So what did I say?

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it. This Sanjay Gandhi ruined the whole Congress organization, and he was being worshiped. Just see practically. It is due to him that the old, oldest political party, Congress, is ruined. And he was being worshiped. This is society's position. And Morarji Desai, he's now prime minister, he was put into jail. This is going on. This is the example to learn. For nineteen months he was put into jail. How much it is troublesome. If I am asked that "For so many months you cannot go out of this room," I'll become mad.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: Our new prime minister is now very much appreciating the movement, especially about Prabhupāda. He may like to visit. He says he does not want these foreign industries. He wants people to have religious... And he is very big sannyāsī himself. That is why he is...

Prabhupāda: Who?

Mr. Myer: Morarji Desai. He is very much in favor of the movement that we are carrying on.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: This is what Prime Minister's saying, that in India we have more unemployed people although we are attracted to machines. And if we go back to villages and...

Prabhupāda: But he says. When he shall do? Says only.

Mr. Myer: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let him do. We are prepared to cooperate with him. We can give him good advice. We are not going to become prime minister. We have no such policy. Neither president. We kick all these. We have no time even. Even they offer, we'll not take. We are not interested in this. But for the welfare of the whole human society we can give them good advice if you like. That is our duty. Actually the legislative assembly should be filled up with men like us, Parliament, to give advice. But all loafer class, bhangis, cāmāras, they are filling up.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is why we say the stool, this side and that side... After all, it is stool. Somebody says, "This side is better than that side." Stool is stool when in this side or that side. That is going on. Guer ei pitaro(?). But they are so intelligent, they say, "No, no, this side is better. It has dried up." They are rascals like that. It is stool. It is untouchable. It is... On all side it is bad, but they are thinking, "This side..." This is their intelligence. What can I do? But if they consult us, they'll be benefited. We are not going to be prime minister or this minister, that... We kick out. We want to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no such ambition. So read books. Do things nicely. Serve Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. The direction is there, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: Yes, the posts will change now because it is very good man over here, new business in America and on the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: And "Get out. Get out."

Mr. Myer: This "Get out..."

Prabhupāda: And "Get out" means another ten thousand rupees. He has to go out, again come back.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a big harassment.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: American is giving. I am permanent resident of America. If they are giving Indians permanent resident for some business, why not Americans?

Mr. Myer: Well, that is because Indira... She was prime minister, you see. She was very bad...

Prabhupāda: So that is gone.

Mr. Myer: They have all exploded that wall, you see. That's what, how the government... So people said that... They're giving money for vague and, which is, at the time, I think... Now I think they have met recently in England. So there is some programs in India. Even Terawal(?) now... Everywhere there is some... After Morarji Desai has taken over, our relations are improving with all the countries.

Prabhupāda: That is expected. He's a good man.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nepotism. Indira's plan was next prime minister, Sanjay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Family heritage. I saw one cartoon in the..., in one newspaper. It said... A little conversation between Gandhi, Nehru and Indira. They're speaking with Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Each one of them is discussing how he's gone wrong. Cāṇakya is advising them what they've done wrong. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita is advising each one of them what they did wrong.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a cartoon. I was speaking with Abhirāma today for quite a long time. Now he understands that... (end)

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: This Prabhudas Patwaria is just now in Delhi. I can go today. He already told me that he will take me to the Prime Minister, because he has very good relation with Prime Minister. And he was reading your books in the jail. Prabhudas Patwaria was framed by Indira Gandhi in the dynamite case of George Pramanas. And the George Pramanas was also in same room with him, and he was also reading books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow! These men are important men now in the government.

Yaśomatīnandana: George Pramanas is minister of railway. And he was with Prabhudas. Prabhudas Patwaria can be a great help now. He's coming here on 30th.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll come with him?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. I'll come with him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you won't go back to Ahmedabad till afterwards.

Yaśomatīnandana: No, I won't go back. I think we should move on these matters. We should do something.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like there's three things that we're... I'm just wondering... Here's Gopāla.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I thought that unless he brings some book, he won't come. Because every time I criticize him, "Where is the book? Where is the book?"

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So give us little protection. That is my request.

Governor: We'll do it, no doubt. I'm meeting the Prime Minister tomorrow, and we are going to discuss that matter. This is my daughter. She stays in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much. She is married?

Governor: She is married. She has a husband. She was also an advocate in... This is husband. He's in the government of India agricultural department now.

Prabhupāda: Very good. We are very much interested in agriculture.

Governor: He's a scientist. Very, very great scientist. He is Ph.D. of California University.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eighth, August. So we can if you think. So kindly submit my application to the Prime Minister.

Governor: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That's it. This should not...

Governor: The difficulty because of not ours, but what happened in our Madras state, there is that Pondicherry. Pondicherry has made one Auroville. Auroville is international town. There are more than four to five hundred foreigners from various countries of Europe and America. Families also. Now they and those Aurobindo society people, they are going on always, some disputes. And that they have developed so much that physical violence, traffic obstruction... And law and order is not there. So I receive complaints from both that "You send your police. Help us. Help us," like that. So that has come to the notice of government of India. And so they are worried that we must have some restriction on so many foreigners living here and creating disturbance.

Prabhupāda: No, these foreigners...

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Just prior to her being arrested, a few days, she has publicly announced that "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." She said, "The government doesn't have the guts to arrest me." So this arresting her will make her more popular. She is very intelligent lady. And her little sister, this Shreemav Badranayiki, she was the prime minister of Shree Lanka. She is also coming back. These two women went to school together. They were in the same class.

Bhagatji: From Ceylon.

Haṁsadūta: Yes. It's an amazing coincidence. This woman prime minister of Śrī Lanka, she follows everything Indira does. When Indira Gandhi held elections, she also held elections. She lost; she lost. She's coming back; she's coming back. They're very friendly, two ladies running these two countries. Sometimes when preaching I tell the public, "What kind of country is this? The land of the rājarṣis and some lady is running the government."

Prabhupāda: Hm, don't touch politics.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: The new prime minister, we met him a few days after he was inaugurated. We gave him Kṛṣṇa book and a nice letter. He doesn't smoke or drink. He's a Buddhist. He seems to be a, relatively speaking, a nice man. But he's quite old. He's also seventy years old. But, Prabhupāda, eventually, our movement practically around the world will attract the attention of the government.

Brahmānanda: They will not like.

Haṁsadūta: They won't like it. Just like Germany, it's actually the government. The people are innocent. But these governments, they can see the danger in Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Bali-mardana: Would you like Haṁsadūta to chant some more?

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm. Yes. (Haṁsadūta chants) (break)

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: I have brought the makara-dhvaja from the kavirāja in Delhi. This kavirāja, he's not Rāmānuja-sampradāya, but many people say in Delhi that he's the foremost kavirāja in India. He treats the Prime Minister, Morarji Desai, and all the ministers also. So many people trusted him, and he mixed this medicine... He was mixing it for some other person, but when he heard that you were ill, he gave it to us.

Bhavānanda: What kind of makara-dhvaja?

Śatadhanya: There's different kinds of makara-dhvaja, six kinds. This is the most potent kind. This is called siddha makara-dhvaja. This contains gold and pearl and musk and mica and many other ingredients.

Bhavānanda: And what are the other ingredients you have to take it with?

Śatadhanya: You can take it with either honey or milk. But he recommended that for Prabhupāda's particular condition he take it with honey.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. What did he charge?

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: He's meeting with the Prime Minister tomorrow. Nārāyaṇa is having a meeting tomorrow with the Prime Minister and Defense Minister at the Gandhi Memorial Society.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Brahmānanda: In Delhi. (break)

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (Hindi)

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) There is good demand all over the world. (Hindi) "Kṛṣṇa is not person; Kṛṣṇa is consciousness." (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa personally speaking, and "He is consciousness." He says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "I come down." (Hindi) Māyāvādī. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned, māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). (Hindi) Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa said that "I am speaking to you the old yoga system." (Hindi) ...not my interpretation. (Hindi) (break) Kṛṣṇa is person.