Prime minister (Conversations 1969 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"prime minister" |"prime minister's" |"prime ministers" |"prime ministership"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Meeting with Devotees -- June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Śyāma dāsī, secretary. And who is treasurer?

Hayagrīva: Hṛṣīkeśa.

Prabhupāda: Hṛṣīkeśa. And what is Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja's position?

Hayagrīva: He is maṭha commander?

Devotee 1: Prime minister.

Śyāma: Advisor. Advisor?

Hayagrīva: General advisor, maṭha commander.

Prabhupāda: The maṭha commander... Of course, so far the management of the New Vrindaban affairs is concerned, that is within maṭha commander's jurisdiction?

Hayagrīva: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Maṭha commander means the, everything of that place under his command.

Hayagrīva: That's not good. Then advisor is better. Advisor would be better.

Prabhupāda: Advisor means his advice will be final?

Hayagrīva: Advice final? That means the advice would be depending on the president.

Prabhupāda: Confirmed by the president. So honorary advisor. Advice gratis?

Hayagrīva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Chuckling) No. Another thing is that, as I suggested, that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja, being sannyāsī, he should be given the top post to give honor to the position of a sannyāsī. Otherwise in our society there is no meaning of a sannyāsī.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: Evenings are all engaged.

Prabhupāda: Oh, evenings are... But evenings up to which date? Tuesday?

Guest (1): Up to the sixteenth.

Prabhupāda: Up to the sixteenth? Then probably on the seventeenth we may go. Not fixed up, but there is chance. That is chance because we are thinking of an appointment with the prime minister in Delhi by the eighteenth, so if that is fixed up, then we have to start.

Guest (1): (discusses date for engagement with Haṁsadūta)

Prabhupāda: Is there any engagement, for...?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: When?

Haṁsadūta: (discusses date for engagement with 1)

Yamunā: Fifteenth is the appearance day of His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Prabhupāda: Fifteenth is the appearance date? ? Oh, then we have to perform.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: So when the Parliament begins?

Yamunā: It will be (indistinct) It separates for about a month and then comes together.

Prabhupāda: Aiye. Aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Giriraja: Insofar as seeing the prime minister, this is the best time because he is not so preoccupied.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is that picture? There was picture you prepared.

Devotee (3): (indistinct) picture with a letter (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Oh. So... So how long you talked with the Prime Minister?

Yamunā: Maybe ten minutes.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: There is one instance. Not very long ago, say, about two hundred years ago there was a big zamindar. He was known as king in Krishnanagar. So he was charitably disposed. He went to a brāhmaṇa and asked him—he was a great learned scholar—"Can I help you any way?" And the pandit replied, "No. I don't require your help. I am quite satisfied." "How you are satisfied?" "Oh, my, these students, they bring some rice. So my wife boils that, and I have got this tamarind tree. I take some leaves and prepare some juice out of it. That is sufficient." So he was satisfied. That's all. But he was a learned scholar. Similarly, Canakya Pandit... You have perhaps heard. He was the greatest politician. He was prime minister of India. He was living in a cottage and just giving instruction. So that is India's Vedic civilization. Everyone is satisfied, self-sufficient. And now in your country, oh, you have to attend office fifty miles off. And because you have to take this trouble, Kṛṣṇa has provided with car. You are thinking, "I am advanced." You don't think that "Although I have got car, I have to go fifty miles off from my home." This is illusion.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was prime minister. He had no information of Kṛṣṇa, but since he saw... Of course, Rūpa Gosvāmī is eternally Kṛṣṇa's companion, but superficially he was showing that he was a prime minister and he was engaged in Nawab's service. But when he met Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then he decided that "I shall retire from this service and act Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission." So what did he do? Whatever money he collected by his service—it was huge amount-fifty percent he immediately spent for Kṛṣṇa. And fifty..., twenty-five percent he gave to the relatives, and twenty-five percent he kept for his emergency expenditure. So this division, fifty percent for Kṛṣṇa means the whole life he acted as a minister, that means he acted for Kṛṣṇa. Because the result is given to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa says, yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Is it clear?

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Our predecessor ācārya, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was finance minister in the Mohammedan government. He was. When he resigned, the Nawab was not very satisfied, that "I cannot relieve you because you are my right hand man. If you resign all of a sudden in this way, then I shall arrest you." There is a long history. So that's a fact. The brāhmaṇas were kept. So the advisory committee of the king... Now, as I was going to speak, Candragupta, Candragupta, just the lastest Hindu king, Candragupta... Candragupta is the age of Alexander the Great because at that time, during Candragupta's..., little before Candragupta, Alexander the Great from Greece, they went to India and conquered some portion. So this Candragupta, when he became emperor, he had his prime minister, Canakya. Perhaps you heard this name, Canak... Ca-na-kya.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: So this Canakya Paṇḍita was a great politician and brāhmaṇa. And as brāhmaṇa, he was vastly learned. He has got some moral instruction. They're very valuable, still going on. In India school children are taught. So this Canakya Paṇḍita, although he was prime minister, he maintained his brahminical spirit. He was not accepting any salary, yes, because for brāhmaṇas to accept salary, it is understood that he becomes a dog. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata. He can advise, but he cannot accept. So he was living in a cottage, but he was prime minister. So this brahminical culture, the brahminical brain, is the standard of Vedic civilization. Just like Manu-smṛti. Manu-smṛti... You do not know. You cannot trace out the history, when Manu-smṛti was written. But Manu-smṛti is considered so perfect that it is the Hindu law. The Hindus are governed by Manu-smṛti. There was no need of passing daily a new law by the legislative assembly to adjust this social order. You see? The law given by Manu was so perfect that it can be applicable for all the time. This is perfect. Tri-kāla-jñāḥ. The word is there, tri-kāla-jñāḥ, past, present, future.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The intelligent class of men, they like to study philosophy, they like to understand what is the ultimate goal of life, so many things. So intelligent class of men should be engaged in that business. They should not be dragged in other platform. And those who are inclined to take part in politics, administration, that class also should be trained how to rule over the country, how to make satisfied the citizens. They should be trained up, as in business people are trained up. Now the fault is without being trained, simply by votes one becomes prime minister or (indistinct). He has no training how to administer, but simply by vote, he occupies a big post. And that is his qualification. But he does not know how to rule over, how to make the people satisfied. Therefore, chaos. Daily everywhere, government is changing.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Now, what is the position of Pakistan now?

Sumati Morarjee: Today that Bhutto is come and gone.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: You know he has left for today for Pakistan back. He came to see the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Sumati Morarjee: No, our Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: Oh, our Prime Minister.

Sumati Morarjee: And they were both (indistinct) for four days, five days, and then they discussed various thing, and now they have come to an understanding that everything must be mutually done, and with the (indistinct), and they have to be...

Prabhupāda: So, what is the use of keeping Pakistan? Let it, let, let, let them have another.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: And that ship was returned.

Sumati Morarjee: That was returned. So that I put pressure on the British. That's how we got back the ships. Otherwise we would have lost those two ships.

Prabhupāda: They're very uncultured.

Sumati Morarjee: Very, very uncultured. And he came to see the Prime Minister, he brought all his sons, all his daughters, whole family he brought, to Bhutto. Because Bhutto, he is from Junagar, I know him.

Prabhupāda: Ah, he is Gujarati?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, he is Gujarati Muhammedan. He is from Junagar. His father...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) was also.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, (indistinct) was from Junagar, Bombay, but this Bhutto 'till he went away, he was in Junagar. His father, son was Bhutto, was the (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What education? To eat meat and beef.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That education. And no restriction of sex even amongst the leaders.

Jayatīrtha: And all advanced contraceptive methods.

Prabhupāda: This Jawaharlal(?) was implicated with his sister, and some say with his daughter also, and he was the prime minister. This is their position. In our Indian system, education is mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: every woman except your own wife, all mothers. That is education. Mātrā svasrā duhitrā vā (SB 9.19.17). Either your mother or sister or daughter, you don't live together alone. These are education. And they're freely advocating sex life. What is the (indistinct) difference? In India they're doing, so many leaders. (indistinct), it can be done. The leaders are speaking while doing that. No discrimination, just like hog. No discrimination.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And why not? Kṛṣṇa is everything. Suppose I if I say, "I am everything in this, my institution," does it mean I have lost my personality? No, no, if I say, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... If somebody says that "Bhaktivedānta Swami is everything," does it mean I have lost my personality? That is material understanding. Kṛṣṇa keeps His personality; still, He is everything.

Revatīnandana: Just see. In the government there are so many cabinet ministers, offices, etc. And in every cabinet minister and in every office the will of the Prime Minister is going on. Therefore in one sense the Prime Minister is everything. Still, the Prime Minister is a person who is in control of all those cabinet officers and offices. And you won't find the Prime Minister in each office, but he's there, because of his influence. In the same way you are in Kṛṣṇa's energies, and He is everywhere through His energies, but He remains the person in control. The same thing.

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtani na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Although you do not find Kṛṣṇa in somewhere, but His energy is acting, there. So one who has eyes to see how Kṛṣṇa's energy is acting, he sees Kṛṣṇa. Same example. Because the Prime Minister's energy is working in that office, so the Prime Minister is there present. So everything is demonstration of the energy. Just like you are in the room, you have not seen the sun, but as soon as the sunshine is there, you know that sun is there. You see the sun through the sunshine, although it is not that sun has come into your room. The sunshine, coming of the sunshine within your room, is sufficient knowledge to know that here is sun. Sun is there. That is the Vedic statement, that you can understand there is fire when there is heat. If there is light and heat, then you can understand there is fire.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like you are elevated to the position of lordship. So you had to prepare yourself. Not that this lordship is offered to anyone and everyone. One who is qualified, he is offered this position. Similarly, we should know how we are becoming qualified for the next life. But that education is lacking. There is no such education. In the university or anywhere, nobody thinks, "What we are going to become next life?" But we should be prepared. If, after becoming Prime Minister in this life, or President, like Mr. Nixon, and again, by his activities, he's going to be another animal, oh, that is not very successful proposal. But there is such chance. Because after death, after giving up this body, we are completely under the grip of material nature.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So India cannot be happy being guided by the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. It is not possible. This request I made to Gandhi That "You are..." People accepted him as a spiritual man all over the world. So if Gandhi would have taken this movement sincerely and scientifically, it would have grown thousand times.

Reporter: Yes, yes. But that... What Gandhi said? Did he reply to your request?

Prabhupāda: No.

Reporter: No. Hm.

Prabhupāda: But it did not go to his hand-hands of his secretary. They thought, "What is this nonsense propaganda? Now let us become prime minister."

Reporter: (laughs) Yes. But how problems of India, like poverty...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Reporter: Like poverty, and this lack of balance between rich and poor. How these problems can be solved?

Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There is one moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great minister during the time of Mahārāja Candragupta. So he was honorary Prime Minister in the empire. So he has a book of moral instruction. So he says in that moral instruction, who is a learned man. So he gives the description of a learned man, that: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Mātṛvat. "Just treat all other women except your wife as your mother." Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Loṣṭa means as there are so many pebbles lying on the street, you don't care for it, similarly, others' property, others' money you should treat just like these pebbles lying on the street or the garbage lying on the street. Don't touch it. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. And treat all living entities as you want to be treated. If one has got these three qualifications, he is learned man.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): But he did not accept any post, you know that? At the same time...,

Prabhupāda: But he also accepted "Mahatma" although what...

Guest (1): But not political post.

Prabhupāda: That is another trick, it may be. Or he did not like. It may be. Because he was so great, what is the presidency? Presidency elected post for five years. But he was recognized all over the world as a great leader. That is greater than any president's post or prime minister's post. So that is not much. But the thing is that if he was actually aware of the importance of Rāma, that he did not. He took it, "Rāma" as some means for his political purpose. But still it effected. At the time of death he said, "Rāma." So...

Guest (1): So you think he has gone to heaven or some, what is his position?

Prabhupāda: No... But because he did not understand Rāma, therefore he cannot go to the kingdom of God. But he'll get very high position.

Guest (1): High position.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He may go to the heavenly planet

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (2): No, I believe I was respecting all religions, all gods, but now I think I lay more emphasis on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: How can be all Gods then? That is practical. If everyone is God, then what is the meaning of God? If... Do you think everyone is president, everyone is Indira Gandhi? Indira Gandhi is one. The Prime Minister cannot be many. It is a common sense. How everyone can be God? This is nonsense. Anyone thinks that there are many gods, he does not know what is God. Aiye. God is one. Ekaṁ brahma dvitīyaṁ nāsti. Therefore there is no education what is God. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagava... Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "Nobody else superior than Me." That is God. Asama-ūrdhva. God is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as asama-ūrdhva. You can come this side? Let them come forward. You sit down... (break) ...equal to God. And nobody can be greater than God. That is "God is great." If somebody becomes equal to you, how you can be great? Or if somebody is higher than you, then how you can be great? So there is no equal to God, nor greater than Him. That is God. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7).

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told that to my mother and she would not believe it. You know, people think that if someone is a great politician or something, he can never become something like this.

Prabhupāda: Then why the politician dies? If he has got so good brain, let him live forever.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: People have so much blind faith in people like Nehru and Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Jawaharlal Nehru did not want to give up his Prime Ministership unless he was collapsed. So why he did not live if he is so intelligent? And Kṛṣṇa says, if you have to believe Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). "He has to accept another body." So why you should disbelieve that he has accepted a dog's body? Because the acceptance of body is not your business. It is the business of higher nature. Daiva-netreṇa. So if the daiva likes that "You must take this dog's body," how can you refuse it? You cannot refuse.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday in the paper I saw a picture. Nixon had his sixty-first birthday, and he had a big cake made, and he offered the first bite, the first lick to his dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. That is stated in the Bhagavad... ārto 'rthārthī. He is in great distress. Now he is taking shelter of God. Ārto 'rthārthī. Then he is good at least. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Ārtaḥ. Ārtaḥ means very much distressed. He is very much distressed than all the Americans.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. For everybody. No, No. Because these are, these are designation. So our philosophy is sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Be free from all designations. Just like you are. You don't hate any particular patient because he's Hindu or Muslim.

Dr. Patel: I? I hate Muslims. I am telling the truth.

Prabhupāda: What kind of physician...?

Dr. Patel: I am their enemy number one. (Hindi conversation) If I have to... If I were a prime minister of this country. I would ask them to go to Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: No, no. As a physician...

Dr. Patel: They wanted Pakistan for themselves.

Prabhupāda: As a physician, you cannot deny...

Dr. Patel: As a physician, I will treat even animal...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That...

Dr. Patel: ...if he is dying. That is different story. But I won't...

Prabhupāda: So that is our position.

Dr. Patel: That is right.

Prabhupāda: That is our position.

Dr. Patel: That is... I am discharging my duty. But had I been a prime minister of this country, I would have discharged my duty that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't like Muslim culture, but...

Dr. Patel: But I, I hate them!

Prabhupāda: But...!

Dr. Patel: Because...! Because, to them...! Pardon me interrupting. They, their culture is this. I consider every woman to be my sister, excepting my wife. They consider every woman equal to their wife excepting their sister. This is the difference between the two cultures.

Prabhupāda: So then... Why do you...? Mean, there are different, many cultures. But we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa culture. That's all.

Morning Walk -- March 30, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You become... I am explaining. You become entangled. Now, as soon as you become entangled... Suppose you become a dog. Now you suffer.

Dr. Patel: But when the dog is there, he does not think he's suffering. He's just like that pig.

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. That is called moha, moha. One is suffering. Everyone is suffering. Suppose a big man, a minister, or the prime minister, or the chief minister, he's also suffering. But he's thinking, "Now I am prime minister." That is illusion. Nobody, nobody is here peaceful. Everyone is suffering. Because threefold miseries. That is the conditional life. And after all, Kṛṣṇa says that "If you are thinking that you are very happy, that you must know at least these things: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9)." How you can get out of it? You'll die. Nobody wants to die.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You said that one gentleman, his name is Adhyātma?

Indian man (1): He was blaspheming our society. It was a (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I can understand that he is not very favorable. But still, you said that we hate Hindi. You have said like that. Don't say like that because there may be one... Because preaching means we have to preach amongst the rascals but you do not become rascal. He may be... (break) "...Who will read Hindi? You do not... Who will read Hindi? You can read Hindi, that's all. But who will read outside Hindi? Therefore, Guru Mahārāja..." This should have been the reply. "If there is good customers for Hindi reading, then we can write Hindi books. But nobody will read Hindi." That should have been the reply. Therefore we write in English. "Why Jawaharlal Nehru read his books in English? Why Dr. Radhakrishnan writes his books in English? He has not written a single book in Hindi. Why? Why he was president? Why he was prime minister? Why did you not criticize him?" That should have been replied, that "As soon as a book is written in English, it is for world reading. And if it is written in Hindi, who is going to read except a few people like you? Why still Indians, they are sending their children for education through English?" You know that? There are so many English medium school. Is it not? Yes. Why? Why they are anxious? So much agitation was made for studying Hindi, but then why India still, even in families they are talking in English? In Bombay they talk in English amongst family members. And any gentleman meets another gentleman—he talks in English.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Just like children, they are given some facilities. They must work according to that plan. Otherwise sometimes there is slap, "Huh, why you are doing like that?" like that. (break) ...your country. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrā-bhaumya idya-dhīḥ (SB 10.84.13). Bhaumya means bhūmi. Bhūmi, the land, idya-dhīḥ: "This is my duty: to serve my country, to serve my land." This is māyā. The rascal, he is engaged to "Do your duty to your country," and what is the country? Suppose if I do my duty and I may be driven away from my country next life, because there is no guarantee that I will have to take my birth... Just like one astrologer has explained that Jawaharlal Nehru has become a dog in Scandinavia. (laughs) There is chance. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You will have to change your body. Now, where it will be changed, how it will be changed, what kind of body you will get—that is not in your hands. That is not in your hands. You cannot say, "Oh, I am Prime Minister. I must get such and such body." That is not going to be accepted. But these foolish rascal people, they do not understand it. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). I am acting under certain infection. So I am infecting, say, some venereal disease. So I must suffer for it.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Satsvarūpa: He's dominating the public attention.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very success. (break) ...that he's dominating?

Satsvarūpa: That's what he wrote in his letter.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Satsvarūpa: He thinks that he's going to win. (break)

Prabhupāda: ... that these rascal leaders, they cannot give us any comfort. All over the world. Here in the Gujarat, the students have insulted the leader, you know? So horribly, they have dragged the prime minister, chief minister, dragged him and set up and seated on an ass's back. In this way he was insulted.

Mahāṁśa: Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: The chief minister.

Morning Walk -- April 24, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: Channa Reddy. He's very nice. He'll be coming today at ten o'clock. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the modern politicians. Here at the present moment their philosophy is that one must be very cunning diplomat, then he's successful politician. This is their philosophy. The most crooked man, like Cāṇakya. But our philosophy is that the political head should be like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Lord Rāmacandra, that is difference. Here Churchill or Hitler or similar man, crooked man... Without being crooked one cannot become politician. Lloyd George, the British Prime Minister, he said that "Consistency in politics is the qualification of an ass." Consistency. You must change.

Morning Walk -- June 1, 1974, Geneva:

Bhagavān: So I hope there is still time.

Prabhupāda: He is Prime Minister of France?

Bhagavān: He just became the Prime Minister of France.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Young man?

Bhagavān: Forty? (break) (now they are walking)

Prabhupāda: Still they are doing this. You see? Padaṁ padam means every step. There are some fruits in this tree? No. Oh, here is eucalyptus? No. (break) ...you can by children, their living. There is only one offspring.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Protest meeting must be there. How to organize? At least, a protest meeting should be done in such a way that the whole world may know that the British Government stopped the yearly Ratha-yatra ceremony of the Hindus. That should be organized. What can be done? You are not very strong GBC's. There must be vehement protest meeting.

Bali Mardana: They can protest in front of Downing Street, in front of the Prime Minister's residence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, protest meeting, go on, organize. Go, all of you. What is the talking here? They have seen that the movement is growing more important. So this is discrimination. In England the Church is very strong. They have organized like this. You quote the publication, "There is no alarm." Of course, it is on the plea of police protest, police objection. The police objection means one's religious ceremony should be stopped? What is this? Simply for some technical mistake, now they can warn that "You must do it. Otherwise it will be stopped." How is that? No. That means this is police government? Does it mean it is police government?

Bali Mardana: Police state.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: They're not satisfied with sex with a man, so they have it with an ass.

Prabhupāda: Their center is sex—this sex or that sex or that sex, even ordinarily. In Paris, Paris you know it is a city of prostitutes. On the roads there are prostitutes. Where we have got our temple, so many prostitutes are standing. And those who are prostitute-hunter, they go to Paris. From our childhood I know about one family physician. We are at that time boy, 8 or 10 years old. He was talking with his another Muhammadan friend how he toured many countries and how many different types of prostitutes he tasted. This was his talk. So he was talking of Paris, "Though you are boy...," this we could understand." This is the talk. Old men, retired men, they will also talk of the sex (indistinct), and they will enjoy. Now they could not enjoy sex, but by talking... And we have practically seen when we were young, our grandmother-in-law, my mother-in-law's mother, old lady, she would talk freely about sex. She will ask me, "You capture the breast of your wife." She would make a pun and enjoy. "You do like that, you do like that." She teaches like that. We were... I was twenty, twenty-three years, so I was just married, but she will enjoy sex. She had other grandchildren. My father-in-law were two brothers. So my father-in-law, he was younger brother, and his elder brother, her daughter also the same age, she would enjoy (indistinct) son-in-law. (break) Ministers, prime ministers. The minister, famous.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, not stopped. Just like you have got ordinary car and you purchase a Rolls-Royce car. The business is the same. It is simply an artistic improvement. In the ordinary car there is much jerking and the Rolls-Royce car there is no jerking. That will not benefit you. After all it is car. You can use it for going here to there, there to here, that's all. Therefore our Vedic civilization, they are not very much eager to manufacture a motor car, they are satisfied with the bullock cart. Because after all you have to go from this place to that place. And there was no need of big, big roads, three thousand miles long for driving the car. You see. The bullock cart was sufficient, here to there, a few miles. But they were interested to cultivate spiritual knowledge. That is Indian civilization. Vyāsadeva was living in a cottage and just see literature. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was prime minister of India and he was living in a cottage, drawing no salary and he has given his politics and moral lesson, so sublime. So here at the present moment, the motor car civilization, he's anxious how to get a Rolls-Royce motor car, that's all. That is his business.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: I am going to India. We have to hold the Lord Caitanya's birthday anniversary. And open our Vṛndāvana temple. In Bombay we have got very nice land purchased, and the government will not give us sanction for the temple. The... I approached the Maharastra governor through another friend governor. The governor of Uttar Pradesh, he is my friend. So I explained to him, "This this is the position. You request the governor to give me sanction." So he has very ardently requested, explaining the whole thing about my position, my... He is member of this movement, and still, he is neglecting. He has said no. Yet... But no answer.

Ambassador: You know, when I had Mr. Trudeau, our prime minister, visiting India in '71, first place I took him was Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Ambassador: Our prime minister of Canada, Mr. Trudeau.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ambassador: So we went the first place...

Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana.

Ambassador: Vṛndāvana temple.

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana still there is little glimpse of spiritual ideas in India. But the government is trying to spoil this place also. Starting oil refinery.

Ambassador: In Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Become a crab. That's all right. This is their solace. This is ignorance. You don't like it, but "When I become crab, I'll like it." That is māyā's covering. Otherwise he cannot live. If the crab thinks that "I was king in my past life. Now I have become a crab," it would be horrible for him. Therefore he forgets. That is a concession of māyā. Forget whatever you have had. Just like here they try to forget by drinking, intoxication. That kind of forgetfulness is also happiness for the rascals. Nobody wants to be degraded. But if in degradation one forgets his past life, if that kind of happiness is happiness, you can do it. This is for the fools. The dog forgets that he was a prime minister in his past life, and his statue is now being worshiped in the memorial hall. And he has become a dog. (If) this kind of happiness is happiness, let him take it. Actually it is like this.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is working because he is getting money. Where is the love? The minister, the prime minister, everyone, if they say, "No money, no salary," nobody will go. He takes the opportunity of taking money by bribe, by this way. Therefore they are: "I love your country. Elect me as president." That's all. What this president has done, Nixon? He has stolen so many things. So what is his love for the country?

Amogha: He was a bad one, but some of them are good.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: A drunkard was never respected. Similarly meat-eaters. He was considered third-class man. In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: In our society you are taught in school that if you try hard enough, you can become prime minister.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no harm. You become prime minister. But I say that not everyone is capable to become prime minister. That has to be. If one man is not capable and if he takes education to become, he will waste his time.

Guest 2: But once you have the idea in your head that you can be prime minister, you don't want to be a laborer.

Prabhupāda: Then you become. But if he is a loafer and he wants to become prime minister, then it will create havoc. Just like in America. He was not fit for the president's post. Nixon was elected. Then again he has to be dragged down. We say the fit man should go to become a particular...

Guest 2: Our system, I think is not very good. But everyone is taught this way in our system.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be... Just like first-class men. They should judge for which purpose this man is. Practical psychology there is. I think. They can decide like that. Anyway, the society must have all divisions of men, and then the society is perfect. We have already many divisions, but we are lacking one division, that, the first-class men, first-class ideal men. That is lacking.

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Interviewer: What would be the relevance of Kṛṣṇa's teaching in...

Prabhupāda: Relevance mean you are spirit soul. You are not this body. This thing first you have to understand. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is India's philosophy, that "I am spirit soul." And if you realize brahmāsmi, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na... (BG 18.54). As soon as you realize that you are not this material body, you are spirit soul, then immediately you become jolly, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any hankering for things which he does not possess, no more any lamenting which he has lost. Take, for example, that we have lost our portion of country as Pakistan and fighting since... This was a plan by the British government that divide them in such a way. They will perpetually fight. They will never be happy. This was their plan. That has been successful. But we are lamenting. Both... Pakistan is lamenting or not, I do not know, but Hindustan is lamenting. Gandhi was against this partition. But Jawaharlal Nehru, just to become prime minister, immediately divided.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Who is, who is that? Swami Dhirendra...?

Bali-mardana: President?

Yogi Bhajan: Prime minister's guru.

Bali-mardana: What is his name?

Yogi Bhajan: Swami Dhirendra Brahmacary. He has flown...

Prabhupāda: But prime minister guru, does he believe in Bhagavad-gītā?

Yogi Bhajan: Oh, yeah. He knows it by heart, word to word. That's true.

Prabhupāda: So why he does not teach his disciple, followers?

Yogi Bhajan: He teaches, he teaches, he teaches. He's a very good man. And there are other ācāryas and Śaṅkarācārya Math and other people are coming. We have the list in Los Angeles, about sixty who have accepted to come. Then from the Judeo-Christian thoughtway(?) people are participating. And then...

Prabhupāda: No, they will come and they will go away, that's all.

Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's remark.

Reporter (3): Jonathan who?

Brahmānanda: Cāṇakya Paṇḍita.

Prabhupāda: You perhaps know. There is a embassy quarter in New Delhi which is called Cāṇakya Purī under his name. He was a great politician. About three thousand years ago when there was the reign of Candragupta, he was the prime minister. (break)

Reporter (3): The parade on Saturday, would that be down the same route it was last year with the thing at the Civic Center?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Reporter (3): You'll be serving food?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Reporter (3): And you got all the civic permits this year? You ran into quite a bit of trouble last year, as I recall.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: They have been taught by your rascal leaders, Jawaharlal Nehru and company. These rascals taught them.

Indian Man (2): Jawaharlal Nehru was representing the India for so many years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And therefore he has ruined.

Indian Man (2): He is ruining since our, before born, in 1930.

Prabhupāda: Well, that was the beginning, but he completed the finishing touch. Sometimes he came to Vṛndāvana—I was there, retired—to open a Ramakrishna Mission hospital, and he stayed there the whole day. He came in the morning and went back to New Delhi in the evening, but not a single temple he visited. Where thousands of men are coming to see the temple, but he, the prime minister, he did not visit not a single temple.

Indian Man (2): He accepted as spiritual master, some sort of... His teacher is Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi. So he was teaching him the same thing what he has learned. From here he learned all this knowledge which has spoiled our Indian culture?

Prabhupāda: No, Gandhi had no spiritual knowledge. He was little moralist. That's all. That was also good. But these men are not even moralist.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Brahmānanda: But by our technology we will change the laws of nature.

Prabhupāda: That is your foolishness. What you have changed? Can you stop the fire burning your hand? Can you change this? Then why you talk foolish? These are foolish propositions. Nature will act. You may be so-called advanced in science. What is, your science will do? Will you not die? Will you not be diseased? Will you not become old? Then where is your advancement? You are strictly under the laws of nature. You cannot violate a single inch even. Daiv hy eṣ guṇamay mama māy duratyayā. One sane man should consider that "Why I am strictly under the laws of nature? I am prime..." This question was put by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I am prime minister. People adore me as paṇḍita, very learned, but why I am put into these tribulations of the laws of nature? Why as prime minister and learned paṇḍita I cannot counteract it?" This is real question. Simply doggish mentality: "Yes, why shall I not do it? Why shall I?"—what will benefit you? That means you are not even sober. You are not human being. Human being should question "Why?" That is human being. Now by nature's law the river is full with water. If the nature does not supply, what you can do, your so-called science? Can you fill up with water? Then what is your science? Bogus. You cannot counteract the laws of nature.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.

Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.

Prabhupāda: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.

Dr. Patel: Internationally that happened.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Now the village program of Gandhi is lost.

Dr. Patel: Absolutely. But whatever he has got, he had a lot of vidhi-niṣedha...

Prabhupāda: And it is lost because it was not God-centered. It is lost.

Dr. Patel: But he was God conscious. I mean, I have been brought up in that camp. Gandhi was a saint. But these people could not follow him. They have not understood him well. Those people who understood him, they died out. They died out.

Prabhupāda: Now, now, Gandhi's āśrama, was there any temple for worshiping Kṛṣṇa? No.

Dr. Patel: They had a temple. My wife was brought up there in the āśrama.

Prabhupāda: There was a temple?

Dr. Patel: In the morning they had to say prayer to Deva. (?) Gītā-mandir they had. They had all the characteristics of a good saint.

Prabhupāda: Why not from the beginning? No, no, no. Gandhi did not believe in Kṛṣṇa. No, yes, he has written, that "I know..."

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda (inside car): "Please give up this post. Go away." "Why?" "Why? No 'why.' Give up. Die immediately." "All right, what can I do?" "No protest. No. You must immediately vacate." "How things will go on? I am prime minister?" That, "Nonsense... I'll kick you on the face. Get out." Then he has to accept, and he is prime minister. He has to accept the order of nature, prakṛti. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra. And still he says, "I am. I am. I am lord. I am minister. I am this. I am that."

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): Is it possible that every man's life is directed by God, and you're born to do certain things, and you come to be prime minister or something?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is something like that. But I am talking of, if you depend on God, then why do you keep elections? You are opportunist. Sometimes you take shelter of God and sometimes of your election power. If you are so firm believer in God, then why election? Let God elect. Why you take part in election? Huh? Let God elect the prime minister. Why you are busy in giving vote? (break) God elected Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Hm? His plan was that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should be king, not Duryodhana. So He killed all the Duryodhana's party and selected Yudhiṣṭhira: "Sit down here." That is God's election. So why you elect? Depend on God.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You cannot find out fault with him. As like in the court, if you find out some fault with the judge, you will be punished immediately—"Contempt of court. You cannot do that." It will be punished, because while he is on the seat of the judge, if somebody finds out fault, then his position will be lower. That is not good. I think the judgment is right. Three persons—the president, prime minister, and the speaker—cannot be, what is called?

Indian man (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Parliament can do that "We have no faith." What is called? "No confidence." "No confidence resolution." The Parliament has not done. "No confidence." So how the court can decide? (break) An open fact that this election... All elections are done illegally. So why this poor prime minister is captured? Everyone does. (Hindi) (break) Military police.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?

Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything. Therefore it is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. So māyā is also Brahman. māyā is also Brahman. Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Why māyā is different from God? It is creation of God. Mama māyā, Kṛṣṇa says. Mama māyā. So how māyā can be... The difference is police cannot arrest the president. Now it has been proved in the law. The president, the prime minister, they cannot be interfered by the police or law. That is good judgment. If the head of the estate is also interfered by police, that does not look well. So this judgment is very nice. Therefore in English constitution the first word is "The king can do no wrong." You cannot accuse king of doing wrong. Whatever he does, it is all right.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And then they are prepared right from the brahmacārī āśrama for the highest goal, till they become a sannyāsī. Here he, he's neither this nor there.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no education. Real education is not there. Just like Cānakya Paṇḍita, he was not a spiritual man, but he was a prime minister. Still, he gave the standard of becoming educated. He said,

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu

para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

Here is paṇḍita. What is he? Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu: he sees every woman as mother, except his own wife. And para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat: and other's property, possessions, just like garbage. And atmavat-sarva bhūteṣu: and feeling for everyone as he himself is feeling the pains and pleasures. If one has attained this stage, then he is considered educated. He never says these degrees. No.