Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna heard from Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (People entering) (Break) ...because I was serious for hearing, and therefore now I am serious about kīrtanaṁ, means speaking, or preaching. Do you follow what I say? Yes. So one who is serious about hearing, he can become a future nice preacher. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ. Next stage is developed. That is development. If one has actually heard nicely, then he will speak nicely. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ. Then consciousness will automatically develop because when you speak or you hear, unless your mind is concentrated, your consciousness is right, you cannot rightly hear or speak. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. And then the development, "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is so loving. Kṛṣṇa is so great," that automatically comes. Not silent, but activity.
Preacher (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. There will be no grain, no milk, no sugar, no fruit. So I have to eat you, and you will have to eat me. Full facility for meat-eating. (laughter) Full facility. Kṛṣṇa is very kind. He'll give you facility: "All right. Why cows and calves? You take your own son. Yes. Eat nicely." Just like serpents, snakes, they eat their own offsprings, tigers. So this will happen.
Allen Ginsberg: Kali eats her own...
Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no brain to understand, no preacher, nothing else. Go. Go to, to the dog. And then Kṛṣṇa will come: "All right, let me kill you so that you are saved." So...
Allen Ginsberg: But you see it as actually a historical thing of ten thousand years for the chanting, of the diminishing chanting of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are...
Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think more people will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or fewer?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. More people. Now it will increase.
Hayagrīva: Well, I mean I don't care that much. If you want to put him in charge...
Prabhupāda: That is... No. So far, if you ask my advice, he should do that work, outside propaganda, preaching. But as you say that his presence is required, therefore I say he may remain here. Otherwise, to remain here is not his duty as a sannyāsī. That is actually your duty, to organize the local management and everything. And his duty is outside work, preaching. He may have one assistant, and he can travel. He can educate your countrymen that "Here is a nice thing we are developing. Please come and cooperate." Invite him, and when he comes you receive him and give him good reception. In this way you have to make propaganda, outside and inside. Just like Kṛṣṇa is making outside and inside propaganda. Inside He is Supersoul; outside He is spiritual master to reclaim these fallen souls. Similarly, we should also work outside-inside. And for making outside propaganda, I think he will be the best man. Suppose if he goes to New York, stays for some time, sees respectable foundation and presidents and just to attract their attention this side... Similarly, if he goes Los Angeles, San Francisco, all other cities, Boston, and sees important men, makes propaganda that "We are doing this. Please come and help," that will be very nice. Arrange lectures from... Our local temples may arrange lectures, and he can impress people about the importance of this movement. Not only one, I require several such preachers now. Now we are improving. We are increasing our propaganda. We require several such assistants. So those who have decided to remain brahmacārī, some of them, those who are experienced, they can accept this sannyāsa order and preach. Outside propaganda is also required. Don't you think? Outside propaganda?
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So if they invite, I can go. Why don't you ask them to invite us? Then we can go immediately.
Guest (6): Whole temple there is a pracāra(?) Gītā.
Prabhupāda: But how many preachers they have produced?
Guest (6): You must be knowing that Vidyananda, Swami Vidyananda.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he's a great nonsense.
Guest (6): Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: I know.
Guest (6): He has constructed that from Gujarat. He's a Gujārati.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prof. Kotovsky: Mahā-purāṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have translated in English the full, with the original Sanskrit text, its transliteration, an English equivalent for each word, then translation, and then purport, explanation of the verse. In this way there are 18,000's of verses in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And the ācāryas, the great saintly sages who are the preachers of this Bhāgavatam throughout India, their opinion is that it is the ripened fruit of the Vedic desire tree. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam (SB 1.1.3). And it is accepted by all, I mean, Indian scholars, and especially Lord Caitanya, He preached this Bhāgavata. So we have got that, complete in English translation. If you want to see some of them, we can show you.
Haṁsadūta: You can sit here.
Prabhupāda: Yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ (BG 7.28). One who has finished sinful activities, he can be engaged in God consciousness. One who is engaged in sinful activities, he cannot. Devil citing scripture. A devīl cannot cite scripture. Angel can cite scripture. And according to our ācāryas, Sanātana Gosvāmī, he says that "Don't hear scriptures from the devīl." Avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtaṁ śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyam." If a devīl's preaching about God, don't hear." If you say, "God is pure, so let me hear about God. It doesn't matter whether he is devīl or angel. It doesn't matter." No. The argument is sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. Just like milk is very nourishing food, but if it is touched by the lips, by the tongue of a serpent, it becomes poison. Sarpocchiṣṭaṁ payo yathā. You cannot bring the milk which is touched by the serpent's tongue. So we should receive knowledge of God, message of God, from a person who is not a devīl. Then it will be effective. Otherwise, it will act as poison. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's principle is āpani ācari prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. He first of all behaves himself, and then he preaches. So if the preacher is sinful, how he can deliver other sinful men by his so-called preaching. That is not possible. He must be pure, he must be sinless. Then his preaching will be effective. But in all conditions, if we, with faith and love we chant the holy name of God, we shall become gradually purified. There is no, I mean to say, cause of anxiety. Anyone who will chant this holy name, he'll be purified.
Reporter: (Hindi) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is very simple, you see. Actually one who does not understand what is Kṛṣṇa, for the neophyte, the prescription is there, that "You understand Kṛṣṇa like this." Because you are dealing with bhūmiḥ, you are dealing with water, you are dealing
with fire, you are dealing with air, you are dealing with sky, you are dealing with mind, you are dealing with intelligence. You are dealing with all these things. Well, Kṛṣṇa says, "They are display of My energy." And then again says apareyam: "These energies are inferior," itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, "and there is another energy superior." What is that? Jīva-bhūta, the living entity, mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). So what is the difficulty? I do not understand. He is explaining everything in the Bhagavad-gītā. Simply we have to take it as it is. Kṛṣṇa says that "I am this," and if you say, "No, Kṛṣṇa is not like this," so that is your nonsense. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am this." If you want to understand, just like if you want to understand me, I say that "I am a sannyāsī, I am a preacher," and if you say, "No, you are not a preacher," then how you can understand? I am giving my identification that "I am this." So you have to understand. You are writing also, understanding like that. So why do you deny it when Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the origin. This is My energy"? What is the reason you deny it? What is the reason?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Pradyumna: The temple should always have some prasādam there?
Prabhupāda: Temple must have. Even ordinary gṛhastha. That is Vedic civilization, not that we cook for ourself, for my husband, for my wife and children, eat it sumptuously and go to bed. No. Even gṛhastha, he should be always prepared to receive guest. Yes. And even a guest comes, your enemy, you should receive him in such a nice way that he will forget that you are all enemies. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam. This is Vedic civilization, not that "Beware of dog. Please don't enter here. You are forbidden to come here. And if you come, I shall shoot you." Sometimes they do that. This is not human civilization. It is cats' and dogs' civilization. So actually we are teaching what is human civilization. But we must be also like human being, not cats and dogs. Otherwise how can you teach? If I am like cats and dogs, I cannot criticize others as cats and dogs. I must be first of all human being. Then I shall teach others how to become human being. I must become first of all devotee. Then I shall request others to become devotee. Āpani ācari jīve śikhāilā bhakti. First behave yourself perfectly; then teach others to become perfect. That is preacher. Now we are selling The Process of Creation but if I do not know what is the process of creation, we do not read, if you go to sell some book, then if he says, "What is the process of creation? You explain," and if you say, "All right, let me consult my book..." Kuto gata vedyaḥ para-hasta-gataṁ dhānam. Para-hasta-gataṁ dhānam means, "I have got enough wealth." "Where it is?" "It is in other hands. It is not in my possession, in others' possession." This kind of possessing wealth has no value. Similarly, when somebody asks you some question, if you say, "Let me consult my book," that knowledge has no value. "Let me consult my book." So all these books are there. You see one śloka studying, knowing. It takes one hour. So there are millions of ślokas. How much you have to study. So these things are to be noted. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means perfection, all round perfection. Then people will much appreciate. There is no doubt about it. And we can go anywhere, everywhere, because we are pure. We are giving the right thing. So is there any artist here who can draw? You can?
Dai Nippon representative: Priesthood. Priesthood. (Japanese) It has somewhat changed now.
Prabhupāda: We are all priests because we are preaching. All my students and myself, we are preaching. We are on the priestly level. So our philosophy is ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). Everyone has got some professional or occupational duty. Just like you are printer. We are preachers. Somebody is something else. Everyone has got different occupational duty. So our philosophy is that it doesn't matter what business you are doing, but see that your life is successful. That is our philosophy. And how our life can become successful? Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). If you can preach Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. I have already explained Lord Buddha is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So if Lord Buddha is satisfied, then your life is successful. It doesn't matter what you are doing, but by your action Lord Buddha must be satisfied. Just like your assistants. Their business is to satisfy you. Whatever they may do, it doesn't matter. If you are satisfied, their business is successful.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Our advancement means the more we meet opposing elements, "Oh, that is alright." Therefore preacher is the best devotee because he is a soldier. Just like government gives all importance to the fighting soldier. When there is war, all comforts for the soldier first, then the civil people. There was no butter in Germany, there was no butter. But the soldiers were profusely supplied with butter. And sometimes when the enemy attacks, they throw it away and go away and go to another shelter and still there is butter. That my Godbrother (indistinct) when he first came to India I asked him that, "I heard that you German people are very robust, stout and strong, why you are so thin and weak?" So he replied me in this way that, "In my childhood when I was eight years old weekly I was getting butter for (indistinct)". Everything was controlled, even for children. But the soldiers, there was no control. So that is, my point is, that those who are soldiers, fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, they are brave soldiers. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody is dearer than him who is in the process of preaching this Bhagavad-gītā."
Gurudāsa: That Devasa(?) boy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this cheating process is going on. But you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa or māyā, that is not possible. It is gosvāmī, that is (indistinct) Don't make compromise that somehow or other just chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everything will be done. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Duratyayā. It is very difficult to surmount the laws of nature. So how is that achieved? Just like laws of nature are so strict, if you eat more, immediately you get indigestion. So how you can cheat? You can experience. Nature's law is working. Therefore, to become brāhmaṇa means satyam. You know the meaning of satyam? Satyam means truth. The first quality is he is truthful. Satyaṁ śaucam ārjavam āstikyaṁ jñānaṁ vijñānam. The beginning is satyam. Generally the people in pilgrimages like Vṛndāvana, they have taken this religiousness as a profession to earn money, just like other businessmen do. That is cheating. Generally they do so. In Los Angeles they are keeping the standard given by ourself. At every āratik in early morning, at least 150 men. Even though I am not present, by system, by kīrtana, dancing, offering Deity worship nicely (indistinct). So we have to maintain the standard very strictly. Otherwise it will again become Rādhā-Dāmodara temple and Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). You will have to find out some customer to sell it. What is the use of starting temple if you do not do it properly? Why should you waste your energy? Better travel and preach. Don't take the risk of starting big, big temple. As soon as the energy is gone, there will be trouble. That Govindajī's temple, that man lost everything because he was cheating. If this man is also cheating, then he will also. Our Tīrtha Mahārāja is cheating, then what is his...? He got so many things but he could not do anything. Now he is after these buildings, that's all. Otherwise, what is his credit? He is not a good preacher. He was at the head of Caitanya Maṭha. How much duty was..., heavy duty he had to preach. But he has no preaching capacity.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee: Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati, bhaktiṁ mayi parāṁ kṛtvā mām evaiṣyaty asaṁśayaḥ (Bg 18.68). "Translation: For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me."
Prabhupāda: "Anyone who explains this devotional service, as explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, is guaranteed to come back to Me." That means the preacher of this Bhagavad-gītā is guaranteed to go back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Devotee: Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ, bhavitā na ca me tasmād anyaḥ priyataro bhuvi (BG 18.69). "There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he. Nor will there ever be one more dear."
Prabhupāda: Those who are preachers.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: These are the (indistinct). (Hindi) If you want to be very intimately related... You're already related, but intimately... then this is the process. (Hindi) This is the real (Hindi) This is the real (Hindi) Your brother-in-law did not come? Eh? (Hindi conversation for some minutes) (end)
Revatīnandana: It was when I went to school—I was a nice little boy—in school I failed out, only (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must take as intelligent. That so..., time was wasted. Our, this gurukula should be taken care of very nicely. So nice preachers may come out. Brāhmaṇa, nice brāhmaṇa.
- tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido
- na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ
- tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ
- kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā
- (SB 1.5.18)
Revatīnandana: I'm still thinking about the other morning, we were talking about how everything is actually spirit. Everything is composed of spiritual atoms actually, souls. We were talking about the...
Prabhupāda: That is Vedic version, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, everything is Brahman.
Mother: No, but I didn't ask you to be a doctor. I said some of your boys.
Prabhupāda: Why... Why you are asking? My boys are the same.
Revatīnandana: Which ones? Which ones of us should become doctors here?
Mother: Well, all, all, all...
Revatīnandana: Supposing they all want to be preachers. Do you go to your seminaries and take one boy from each class to become a doctor?
Mother: Yes, well, if you had an epidemic of smallpox...
Revatīnandana: No. No, no.
Mother: ...or typhoid, you... You know what smallpox is like in India.
Prabhupāda: Presupposing. There must be division.
Revatīnandana: So therefore you do that. You go to your seminary and take one boy from each class to be a doctor. By force. "Now, you come..."
Prabhupāda: We are treating them.
Revatīnandana: "...and be a doctor." They all want to be preachers.
Mother: You've got to have balance, balance otherwise. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Balance, this is balance. Let us... You, you take some students and train them as medical man. But I am training to become preachers. Why you interfere with my business? You do your own business.
Mother: Well, my son is my business.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So your son, your son is not dependent on you. He's independent.
Mother: Yes, but he was...
Prabhupāda: You want independence. He's already independent of you.
Mother: He was snatched out of the university by your people going round the universities. He was in university.
Prabhupāda: But... That's all right. If some of our student goes to the university... There are many students...
Revatīnandana: Now wait a minute. We didn't snatch Michael.
Prabhupāda: We don't object to that.
Mother: But he had a false religious experience, due to the LSD.
Prabhupāda: No, I am talking generally, not of him, that everything must be, there must be division. Just like naturally we have got division. The whole object is to keep the body fit, but there is division: the head division, the arm division, the stomach division, and the leg division. So similarly, there must be four classes of men in the society: the intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men, and the laborer class of men. Everything is required. But not that the intelligent class of man has to learn the business of the laborer class of men. That is not required. Just try to understand. The laborer class of men, they are required. But one who is intelligent class, he, he cannot be trained up as laborer, ordinary laborer in the factory. That is mistake. He must work according to his capacity. If he's intelligent, he must be preacher, he must be God conscious. He would educate people that "This eating, sleeping is not all. There is God. You should understand. You have got a relationship with Him. If you want to have better life next, then you must become God conscious, you must be sinless." These things are required in the society. (loud noise of jet going over). What is the use of talking?
Acyutānanda: Which is more important, to go back to Godhead or spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Well, one who is preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's already back to Godhead. (break) ...īhā yasya harer dāsye karmaṇā manasā girā. Preacher means he has engaged his body, his mind, his speeches only to glorify the Lord. That is preacher. So anybody who's engaged that business, he's jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. He's liberated even in this life. (break) ...even if he's liberated. So why he should seek for liberation? He's already liberated. He's already back to Godhead. He's already with Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is talking with him. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi... One who is actually preacher, engaged in Kṛṣṇa's glorification, service, he's already in Vaikuṇṭha. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Etad īśanam... It's just like Kṛṣṇa. If He comes within this material world, does it mean that he's in the material world? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's pure devotee, he's not in the material world. In the spiritual world.
Acyutānanda: Well, like sometimes the devotees are preaching, but they get feelings of getting entangled, so they want to...
Prabhupāda: That means it is not yet perfect preacher. He requires perfection.
Acyutānanda: So they argue with me or some other...
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of arguing.
Acyutānanda: No, they say, "Well, I want to fix myself up," and we want them to preach.
Prabhupāda: Preaching is our only business, preaching. Whatever we do, it is aimed at preaching. Namaskāra. (break) That is our business. Whatever we are doing, it is for preaching. (break) In, in the practice, or in the engagement of preaching, their position is better than those who are worshiping the Lord in a secluded place, bhajanānandī.
Prabhupāda: No. These discrepancies will go on because this whole material world is being conducted by three qualities. You will have three qualitative persons.
Karandhara: Well, they think they are making progress...
Prabhupāda: That they are making progress everyone knows, what kind of progress they are making.
Prajāpati: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was a great philosopher or preacher among the Jewish people whose position is that "If there is God and He let so many Jews be killed by Hitler, ten million Jews, and God could have stopped it and He didn't, then I don't care for that God." They say like that.
Prabhupāda: So their God, Jesus Christ God, he could not even protect himself also. The reply should be, Christian, if Jesus Christ is God, then why he could not protect himself?
Karandhara: Well, the Jews say Jesus Christ wasn't God.
Prabhupāda: Well, but somebody said.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bali Mardana: They say it is an accident, that the world is going to the...
Prabhupāda: They are rascals. Therefore I always say, "Kick them on their face with your shoes, so-called scientists." "Accident." There is no question of accident. Mūḍha. Therefore they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mūḍhāḥ, rascals, narādhama. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. Because they got this opportunity to appreciate the work of Kṛṣṇa, but they avoid it, they are narādhama. No, they are so big, big graduate, scientists, and..." māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Their real knowledge is taken away, simply childish proposing something, so-called scientists. Real knowledge is to see everywhere Kṛṣṇa, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). The supervision of Kṛṣṇa. That is real knowledge. Not only to appreciate, but to explain it also. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī will appreciate, but cannot explain how it is being done. Madhyama-adhikārī will explain. That is preacher. And uttama-adhikārī, he thinks that everyone knows, everyone knows. He does not see that somebody knows, somebody does not know. He sees everyone knows. That is uttama-adhikārī. He does not make any distinction.
Brahmānanda: The preaching necessitates that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if there is no other alternative, what can I do? In the beginning I had no disciples. So I was cooking myself. So one gentleman, he... Later on, he became my disciple. He gave me some place. I was cooking. And in the refrigerator, I saw there was meat. (laughs) So I asked: "What is this?" He said, "It is for cats. I don't take meat." "All right. (laughter) I'll do (?)." So of course, I stayed there for three, four days. And if I cry, "Oh, I have violated my rules and regulations..." Rules and regulations can be violated when there is urgent necessity of service, not whimsically or for one's sense gratification. And that is, of course, in our present..., with the permission of the spiritual master, not one should think, "Oh, I have become so much great devotee, I can violate all the rules and regulations." No, you cannot. If there is need of violating rules and regulations, you must take permission. Now we have no temple. Under the circumstances, we are doing that. So you construct the temple as soon as possible so that people may not criticize you. (break) ...for all gṛhastha devotees, you should begin preaching amongst the gṛhasthas. It is not forbidden for the gṛhasthas to preach. Because preaching is required everywhere. Arjuna was gṛhastha. So yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). One must know the science of Kṛṣṇa. Then you can become preacher.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Madhudviṣa: He says, "Those who repeat this message of Bhagavad-gītā, are most dear friends to me, and there's no one more dear to Me than he..."
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Madhudviṣa: Wouldn't that indicate that a preacher is higher than a worker?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is preaching, this is preaching. You help. Suppose you are preaching, and if I help you... Just like I'm preaching, you're helping. You are also preaching.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Also this building is preaching.
Prabhupāda: This is also preaching. So it is not that preaching means simply talking. Preaching means everything. The construction is also preaching. The designing is also preaching. Everything is... Otherwise what is the use of spending so much money if it is not preaching?
Devotee: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Pitā na sa syāt. (Hindi) Pitā na sa syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. Pitā, father must be, he must be father who can deliver his son from the impending death. So one can avoid this repetition of birth and death only becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious. So any father who gives chance to his children to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's real father. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt... na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. (break) ...there is a verse:
- janame janame sab pitā-mātā pāya
kṛṣṇa-guru nāhi mile bhaja ei bhāi (?)
In every birth one can get father and mother, but to get the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, that is not possible in every birth. That is only possible in this human form. The cats and dogs, they have got their father and mother. Therefore if we become father, mother like cats and dogs, there is no need of such... Kṛṣṇa-guru nāhi mile bhaja... The father helps the children to achieve Kṛṣṇa and guru, that is real father. (break) ...they avoid that trap, they avoid association of women. But these women are not ordinary women. They are preachers. They are preachers. They are Vaiṣṇava. By their association, one becomes a Vaiṣṇava. (end)
Prabhupāda: But their teacher, they're chanting "Swami Narayan." They're saying Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa. What kind of preaching is this?
Indian man (4): This is... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...nonsense this (Bengali). The people will go to the temple. If they say, if the preacher say that Swami Narayan name should be chanted...
Indian man (4): This is directly (indistinct) Swami Narayan.
Prabhupāda: "Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa," then what they learn?
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In London they have got a branch, and they're chanting....
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Swami Narayan. That is my objection. Why they are putting...
Indian man (2): "Swami Narayan, Swami Narayan, Swami Narayan." (laughs)
Prabhupāda: What is this thing? "Swami Narayan." Nārāyaṇa is there.
Girirāja: But it is better to find some innocent persons, for preaching.
Prabhupāda: Yes, better field, those who are innocent. That is the duty of the preacher, four things: īśvare tad-adhīneṣu baliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca. The preacher should see four things. First of all īśvara, the Supreme Person, God. So that vision must be there. He knows what is īśvara or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then tad-adhīneṣu, those who have taken shelter of that īśvara. That means devotees. Tad-adhīneṣu. And then baliśeṣu. Baliśeṣu means those who are innocent, have no sufficient knowledge, innocent. And dviṣatsu. And there is always a class of men who are envious of God, dviṣat. Dviṣat means envious. So preacher has to see these four classes of men or three classes. One, īśvara, and the other three classes. So he has to behave like that. To behave with īśvara-prema, how to love. That is his business. How to increase love for the Supreme. Prema. Maitrī, how to make friendship with the devotee. And to the innocent-kṛpā, how to become merciful. And to the envious-upekṣa, negligence, not to talk with them. Four behavior. Īśvare tad-a... This is madhyama adhikārī. And the position of the preacher is madhyama adhikārī. Therefore they have to point out, "Here is a jealous man, envious man." But people do not want it. They say, "Why you are pointing out? Why you are pointing out?" But this is business of the preacher. Otherwise how he will preach?
Girirāja: They want to be artificially the uttama adhikārī, to see everyone as nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, everyone as nice, except himself. Uttama adhikārī vision, that everyone is nice. Then the preacher is also nice. Why you find out fault with the preacher? So imitation uttama adhikārī will not help.
Girirāja: (break) "...those who are demoniac or atheistic by nature can hardly assimilate any good instruction, however authorized it may be. That is the difference between a demigod and a demon." (break)
Prabhupāda: Therefore, at the present moment, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Demons, they are too much attached to material enjoyment, bhoga and aiśvarya. So they cannot take to it. Therefore our general principle is to perform saṅkīrtana, not to talk philosophy. When one is interested, then he can talk philosophy. Otherwise this talk should be amongst inner circles, with the students and the teacher, those who are submissive. Otherwise it should be avoided. It will create misunderstanding.
Prabhupāda: Our business is to point out who is not a saint.
Dr. Patel: But don't point us out. We want the tree to be a saint.
Prabhupāda: That is our business. Preacher must be. (Hindi) (break) ...can I speak something? Because their position is to take Ramakrishna as a saintly person. Saintly person there may be. Just like Rāvaṇa. He also underwent severe penances, but just to fulfill his personal desire, or Rāvaṇa was so devotee of Lord Śiva that he was cutting his head and offering to the Deity. Is it? You know, everyone?
Dr. Patel: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So why he is called rākṣasa, not a saintly person? What is the reason?
Mahāṁsa: Because he was trying to en...
Prabhupāda: I will talk. Why he is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? And not only that... I do not know whether here. In Delhi have seen Rāma-līlā, the effigy of Rāvaṇa is beaten with shoes sometimes. But actually he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva. Everyone knows. And he was so big devotee that Lord Śiva gave him all benedictions, "Whatever you want." So why this Rāvaṇa is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? Why he is not described as a saintly person? He was a brāhmaṇa by birth. He was born of a brāhmaṇa father, and he was great student of Vedas. Materially he was very opulent so that he could control even the demigods. He was so powerful. Still, with all this qualification, why he is described as rākṣasa? You answer this point.
Nitāi: He can remain in the factory.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But he cannot do the work of a brāhmaṇa. He cannot be trained as a preacher. But he can help. Just like my legs. The legs cannot do the work of brain, but it can help me. I am walking. So leg is as important as the brain. Similarly, śūdra is as important as the brāhmaṇa, provided he helps the movement, Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is wanted, not that artificially a śūdra should be working as a brāhmaṇa, no. But everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.
Nitāi: So in that case he is a śūdra, and he is also doing the work of a...
Prabhupāda: Then he is not a śūdra. One who is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, he is neither brāhmaṇa nor śūdra. He is devotee. He is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). Apparently he looks like śūdra. Just like we have got so many men from different quarters, but we do not belong to that quarter any more. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Therefore anyone who takes, "Oh, here is an American Vaiṣṇava, here is an Indian Vaiṣṇava," that is nārakī. He is Vaiṣṇava. That understanding required.
Girirāja: "They then returned to Lord Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma and explained everything that had happened. After hearing their statements, the Supreme Personality began to smile. He told them that they should not be sorry for being refused by the brāhmaṇas."
Prabhupāda: And this is the position of the preacher. Even if you are disappointed, you should not stop your preaching. You should go on with your business.
Girirāja: "He told them that they should not be sorry for being refused by the brāhmaṇas. Because that is the way of begging. He convinced them that while one is engaged in collecting or begging, one should not think that he will be successful everywhere. He may be unsuccessful in some places but that should not be cause for disappointment."
Prabhupāda: (break) ...tama dāsa Ṭhākura has said, karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa. Bhāṇḍa. It is a pot of poison. Karma-kāṇḍa, karma-kāṇḍa process and the jñāna-kāṇḍa process, karmīs and the jñānīs... Karma-kāṇḍa jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa: "Both of them are poison pots." Jñāna-kāṇḍa also.
Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.
- yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
- tat tad evetaro janaḥ
- sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
- lokas tad anuvartate
- (BG 3.21)
Just like in America, the president Nixon is charged with so many offenses. So... This is not good. He is the head of the state, and he has been charged with so many pollutions. Then how people will follow exemplary character?
Dhanañjaya: Yes, we have a center in Tokyo.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got center in Japan, in Hong Kong.
Cardinal Pignedoli: Are you welcome in Japan? People are interested, eh?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently some of our preachers, they have collected fifty-thousand dollars from the Japanese people. They wanted to contribute me for my Vṛndāvana temple, but the Japanese government will not allow to let the money go out. He wrote me. And I have seen personally, when I went... I went to Japan three, four times. These Japanese boys and girls, they are as good as these American, Europeans boys. And that is my practical... Or they, they are my students. They offer me respect so much. The Japanese boys, without being my students, they offer the same respect. So I thought that Japan is very good. Everywhere. That I told you already, that the love of Godhead is dormant in everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. It is the process to awaken that love of Godhead: That is first-class religion. The matter is already there. Simply we have to awaken. And now, that process which awakens very quickly, that is first-class religion. That is the first... And besides that, really understanding of God is very rarely found.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature's force and accept another body. That they do not know. They are satisfied, "Never mind, I accept the next life a dog's body. Now let me enjoy this, say, twenty-five years or fifty years, that's all." This is their philosophy. No future. "Trust no future, however pleasant." In India, those who are interested in spiritual life, they take sannyāsa. Everybody sannyāsa, bābājī. Rūpa Gosvāmī gave up his service, everything, and became no possessions voluntarily. Big, big kings, Bharata Mahārāja... To practice that "I have no more interest in anything material." (break) ...introduction of my Guru Mahārāja that sannyāsīs and preachers may use big, big buildings, motorcars and..., just to give the information to the western world. Because they, if you ask them, that "You become a mendicant, possessionless," still, they are not very much interested. Because they see our dress, our living condition is not very equal to their standard, they do not like. Is it not? Yes. So just to give these Westerners facilities at least to understand this philosophy, this method was accepted by Guru Mahārāja, to live in nice building, to have cars, to use everything for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, nobody would take.
Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...
Prabhupāda: Yes, our organization is that. Why you are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Krsna is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. It is not easy going. Armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.
Devotee (3): Therefore, Krsna recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Krsna immediately gives him all facilities.
Devotee (3): There has never been a movement like this which has given them factual knowledge of God. Therefore, they think it's sentiment, religion.
Prabhupāda: So that existed temporarily. Now it is gone. That will not appeal. (French)
Yogeśvara: In other words, what he's suggesting is that that's not actually an argument because the important thing is that there were times, at different times, different people have come and have attempted or have actually represented the public sentiment. They have become the epitome or resume' or synthesis of the public sentiment at a particular period. In other words, he's saying the great reform..., the great preachers, they've always been representatives of people; instead of being representatives of Kṛṣṇa, or God, they've been the representatives of the people.
Prabhupāda: The people's representative is different from God's representative. (French)
Yogeśvara: He says that "Well, that's a belief." You have to believe that. He said that's only a belief.
Prabhupāda: No, people change according to the time, circumstances, they change. Their opinion has no value. We don't give any value to the people's opinion. We give value to the Supreme Being's opinion.
Jayatīrtha: If you're preaching honesty to a thief, he may steal your watch. So Jesus was trying to teach religion to murderers, so they murdered him.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. (aside:) Don't come very near. If you advise rascals, they'll be angry. No good result. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So we have to become very strong preacher. Then this movement will stay. If you simply take the temple worship, it will not stay very long. Just like...
Hṛdayānanda: Especially the leaders must preach.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Hṛdayānanda: Especially the leaders must preach.
Prabhupāda: And leaders means... If the leaders are good, then it will continue.
Bali Mardana: If they are not preaching, they are not leaders. They are bogus. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Leaders means they should behave in such a way so that by following them, others will be benefitted. That is leader.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is helping one another. If I am deficient, by seeing your example I shall correct myself. This is the idea, not that a fool's paradise: all fools and join together. Not like that. There should be ideal life, at least the leaders, the president, the GBC. They will show the example, and they will follow. Then it is beneficial. And all of them are fools? Then it is fool's paradise. At least, in the blind association, at least if one man has got eyes, then he can lead all the blind men. But if all of them are blind, then it is fool's paradise. So somehow or other, we have got now a position. People likes us. So we should not spoil by personal sense gratification. That is my request. If we can maintain this institution rigidly according to the order, then many people will be benefited. By seeing our behavior, by character, they will become. Apani ācāri prabhu jīveri śikṣāya. The leader should be ideal.
Devotee (1): We should dedicate our lives to preaching this message of Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, preaching, preaching, you will become perfect preacher. Preach only what you have heard from Kṛṣṇa and guru, that's all. Don't add and subtract. Then you are secure. And if you add some concoction just like somebody says that "I may do whatever I like independently. If I chant, then everything is all right," this is nonsense addition. It is not the fact. That is the danger. Some inexperienced man, he introduces some concoction. Sometimes they say, "Prabhupāda said it." More misleading. Yes. (end)
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: It has to be made under special conditions. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...later on they turned into Vaiṣṇavas. (break) Young preachers, hopeless (break) ...real thing and people follow then everything is possible.
Devotee: Yes, then you can rule the world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)...combined together it is very pleasing. (break) Eh?
Devotee: Tehran used to be very beautiful before there were so many cars. Very clean, very clear. The land, and when I was a child the land was very cheap here. So, now it is very, very expensive and very polluted with cars.
Prabhupāda: Due to the cars?
Devotee: Yes.
Devotee: Everyone was a farmer, now everyone is a factory worker.
Devotee: Yes. It was very nice, very clear and very nice.
Prabhupāda: Again, let them become farmers.
Prajāpati: Again there's no absolute authority. In the vast Christian tradition we have Origen saying one thing and Saint Francis saying another. Widespread... That's why it is not a science that we can go to like we can to Śrīla Prabhupāda for an exact answer, Bhagavad-gītā, exact absolute authority. In the Christian tradition it is simply defined as faithful men understanding themselves in the light of the scripture, in the light of the tradition.
Prabhupāda: No, that is because you are our student. Suppose our preachers meet the theologicians. How to prove that theology is not the means? Theology... Generally, you say it is speculation. So our point is that nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The field of activities.
Prabhupāda: No, he said, "field of enjoyment." He said. What is this nonsense?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was changing the Gītā.
Prabhupāda: Preacher (?) Where it is taken?
Pañcadraviḍa: Well, Kṛṣṇa says that...
Prabhupāda: Where says? Why do you speak like nonsense, "This body is for enjoyment"?
Pañcadraviḍa: No, field.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Pañcadraviḍa: Kṛṣṇa says that the living entity is the enjoyer of the field and the body is the field.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
Pañcadraviḍa: So the living entity can enjoy his desires in that field according to his past activities.
Prabhupāda: No, it is not enjoyment. It is worker, just like this field is for working, and the farmer is working. That does not mean he's enjoying. He's working. This field is given for working. But this working does not mean that he's enjoying. And because this working, working on the field is not enjoyment, therefore nobody's coming. They are going to the factory. They are going to the factory. Had it been enjoyment, then they would have come. But no, they go to the factory. And they are prepared to purchase from the farmer at any cost to avoid this working. That is the difficulty at the present moment. If you are asked that "You work here," I don't think you'll agree. It is not enjoyment. Will you take a plow and do...? No. Why? If it is enjoyment, why not?
Paramahaṁsa: One thing about the Christian religion is that through the last two thousand years, Christ's original teachings may have been good teachings, may have been potent preaching, but because there were no potent preachers to carry on the preaching, therefore the whole thing has been lost. But if there are potent preachers to continue reestablishing and establishing the principles,...
Prabhupāda: So how you'll find, if everything is now changed? Where you will get the right information?
Paramahaṁsa: That's the problem. That's why there are so many hundreds of branches of Christianity, literally hundreds. So many divisions of Christianity. Some people accept this, some people accept this.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we should advocate that Bhagavad-gītā is not like that. It is coming in the same form as it was taught to Arjuna. If you challenge that "How you know that it has not been changed?" the ācāryas are there. The ācāryas are there, and they are accepting. Therefore it is correct. We have to follow the ācāryas. So when we see the ācāryas have accepted, then we accept. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, before that other ācāryas also, they accept. They never say that "This was not in the original scripture. It has been changed." You don't find any such statement of the ācāryas. The best thing, therefore, if you want a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā is coming without any contradiction, change, for the last five thousand years. You accept it. Other scriptures are (unclear), and there are so many doubts, so many interpretations. So, if you want real religious system, this is the scripture spoken directly by God, and accepted by all the ācāryas, so take it. If you are really after God, so you take enlightenment from this perfect scripture. If you want truth, it doesn't matter wherefrom it is coming. I must accept the truth.
Justin Murphy: Geographer.
Prabhupāda: Geographer. And another man is working in the factory or somewhere else. Everyone is working. So by working the aim should be how to perform yajña. That is... That should the... Suppose you are geographer, and I am a religious preacher, and he is a cultivator, he is a factory man, he is a motorcar driver. So that is all right. But if we sit down together and perform yajña simply by glorifying the Lord, where is the loss in your part or my part or his part? Where is the loss? Suppose as a geographer, you sit down; as a religious preacher, I sit down; as a motorcar driver, he sits down; as a factory worker, he sits down and perform yajña. Yajña means we chant the holy name of the Lord. Where is the difficulty?
Justin Murphy: I wish it were as simple as that for the majority of people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Even the child can take part. Even the child, woman, educated, noneducated, rich man, poor man, worker—everyone can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So why don't you accept this formula?
Justin Murphy: How do you know that I haven't?
Prabhupāda: There is no check.
Śrutakīrti: We preach that way so that other people will be happy knowing everything is all right. Now they're thinking everything is not all right, so they're in anxiety.
Prabhupāda: There is a story. One man has written book how to tend cows. "Cows tending, cows tending, cows tending." So one old man calling, "What book you are selling?" "How to tend the cows." "So you better take this book to your mother. She will learn how to tend you." Cows tending everyone knows, and he has written a book. "So better... You are a rascal cow. Give it to your mother, and she will tend you, learn." It is like that. If everything is all right, somebody is taking, "This is pleasure," somebody..., then what is the use of writing book? Everything is all right. They may select whatever they like. Oh, why you are becoming a big preacher? Let them accept whatever they like.
Paramahaṁsa: But Jesus said: "Love thy brother as thyself." So if we love our brother...
Prabhupāda: That we are loving. We are giving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is loving, real loving. We are giving him eternal life, eternal bliss. Unless we love them, why we are taking so much trouble? The preacher must love the people. Otherwise why he is taking? He can do it for himself at home. Why he is taking so much trouble? Why in eighty years old I have come here if I do not love? So who can love better than a preacher? He loves even the animals. Therefore they are preaching, "Don't take meat." Do they love the animals, rascals? They are eating, and they love their country, that's all. Nobody loves. It is simply sense gratification. If somebody loves, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's all. All rascals. They are after their own sense gratification, and they will put a signboard, "I love everyone." This is their business. And fools are accepting, "Oh, this man is very philanthropic." He does not love any man. He loves only senses. That's all. The servant of the senses, that's all.
Madhudviṣa: They take great trouble to bring trees from all over the different parts of the world to put in the botanical gardens.
Prabhupāda: Very nice gardens. Hardly there is such nice botanical gardens in the world. I have seen many botanical... Very nice. (break) This swan is black and the crow is black, but crow's place is different, their place is different, although they are birds. The crows will enjoy a filthy place where all refuses are thrown. I don't think in your country there is many crows. In India, you've seen, all nasty place, that is visited by the crows. It is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham (SB 1.5.10). The literature which does not describe Kṛṣṇa, that is the place for the crows. There is sex literature, they're enjoyed by the crows, and this Bhāgavatam is enjoyed by the swans. That is the difference. Crow's literature and swan's literature, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Everyone in this material world, they're envious. Their business is to become envious. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. This is material world. And the paramahaṁsas, Vaiṣṇava, they're kind, they're merciful. "Ah, this fallen soul is suffering for want of Kṛṣṇa. Let us preach." That is the difference. The envious and the nonenvious. That is paramahaṁsa. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ (SB 3.25.21). They are not only not envious, but they're merciful. They'll suffer so many troubles for their preaching work, still they'll do that. Titikṣava. A preacher has to suffer so many inconvenience. You had to suffer in here?
Madhudviṣa: Where?
Prabhupāda: In Australia.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No preaching work? Should they go out for preaching?
Prabhupāda: No, those who are preaching, not for them. Those who are sitting idle, or they... (laughter) (break) ...has no other regulation, simply preaching. A preacher is so exalted. He hasn't got to follow any regulation. But don't take it. (laughter) And actually if one is busy in preaching work, that is first-class. (break) ...not my manufactured word, my Guru Mahārāja, that the... That Mādhava Mahārāja, when he was a brahmacārī, his name was Hayagrīva. So he was to go somewhere. So but he was sick. Guru Mahārāja was informed that he was sick and "Today is ekādaśī. He cannot take his regular meals." So Guru Mahārāja said, "No. Let him take immediately meals and go."
udāmā: And they even indicate, Prabhupāda, on the advertisements that smoking is hazardous for the health.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...for money, the money which will push them to hell. This is their intelligence. We have to give them intelligence, open their eyes. (break) ...angry first of all because mūrkhāyo 'padeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye: "If you give good intelligence to the fools and rascals, they will be angry." But still, you have to do it. Just like when Nityānanda Prabhu went to Jagāi-Mādhāi to deliver them, they became angry and injured. So that is preacher. These rascals will be angry, will sometimes do harm to you, and still, you have to do it. That is preaching. Are you understanding what is preaching? Yes. You have to prepare like that. At all risk you have to preach. (break) ...world is full of rascals, and you have to educate them. So according to one's capacity let them preach, prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. But everyone can preach to some extent. There is no hindrance.
Prabhupāda: After all, they are human being. Therefore we have collected some nice souls. (break) If you can go to the jungle, that is no hindrance, but let us take the opportunity of the civilized nations, preach them. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). They are leading the whole civilization. If they are convinced, it will be great benefit to the human race. (break) Also my Guru Mahārāja said that "You go to the western country." If he had said that "You go to the jungle," I would have gone. (break) ...preacher, either the jungle or the city is the same. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ na kutaścana bibhayati. One who is devotee of the Lord, he does not make any discrimination that "This is jungle and this is city." Svargāpavarga-narakeṣv api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ (SB 6.17.28). For them, everywhere, Kṛṣṇa's property. So where Kṛṣṇa asks him to go and serve, he will go. That's all. (break)
Jaga-jīvana: All classes of men should preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all he must know what to preach. If he does not know what to preach, what he will preach? You have got a preaching capacity, provided you learn the art of preaching. But everyone can preach. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: No, because you are rascal, therefore you cannot say that everyone is rascal. You rascal, you do not know. But we know because we are not rascals. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So we know. You do not know, you rascal. But we know. Then what is the answer?
Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Well, I said that once to a professor, and I was dressed in plain clothes, and then he became very upset, and he said, "I thought I was talking to a book salesman, and now I find out that you're a preacher."
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He is gentleman. He has admitted. A gentleman, if he commits some mistake, he admits, "Yes." He is gentleman. And if he persists on his mistake, he is rascal. He is a rascal. So he is a gentleman. (end)
Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our organization is that. Why we are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Kṛṣṇa is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. He is not easygoing, armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.
Mādhavānanda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa immediately gives him all facilities.
Mādhavānanda: There has never been a movement like this which has given factual knowledge of God. Therefore they think it's sentiment, religion.
Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal?
Yogeśvara: (aside:) The top has come down? (pause)
Prabhupāda: What is the... Time now?
Harikeśa: 6:17.
Prabhupāda: You have left forever.
Praṇava: No. I can never leave for...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then why don't you do that business? In the evening, four o'clock, you can speak. The whole day you can read and reproduce in the four o'clock. Then you understand what is the philosophy. If you simply reproduce what is written there in the book you become preacher. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). We haven't got to manufacture anything.
Praṇava: Since you have asked me, I have got one question I ask you. Yesterday my wife went for saṅkīrtana, and the mike was stopped in the middle, so she felt little... But I said, "Since we have to make kīrtana, Prabhupāda..."
Prabhupāda: Why the mike was stopped?
Indian: "...like it and you should go on." So if your kind permission is there, she will continue in whatever way...
Guṇārṇava: In what way was the microphone stopped? What do you mean?
Praṇava: Yes, it was stopped for some time.
Prabhupāda: That mike stops sometimes. That is another thing, not that purposely...
Praṇava: It stopped purposely. And especially at the time of that tulasī ārati also because somebody may not have liked that she should come or....
Guṇārṇava: Who stopped your wife from singing?
Praṇava: That I don't know.
Prabhupāda: By talking with him, with the rascal and foolish. You tax your brain and spoil your energy, blood.
Harikeśa: Spend so much food.
Cyavana: So we should do that.
Prabhupāda: Unless you are not a preacher. You should be prepared. Yes. They cuts, sacrifices life, what to speak of wasting blood. Wasting life. This is preacher. Then he is recognized by Kṛṣṇa: "He has done so much for Me."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa will give more and more energy.
Prabhupāda: He is going to die for Kṛṣṇa, and therefore he is recognized. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). You become immediately very dear to Kṛṣṇa. Your business is how to become very intimate to Kṛṣṇa. That will be served by preaching.
Harikeśa: They were saving it for you.
Prabhupāda: For you also.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think they had their hands full with India. They had their hands full with India, all of the preachers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What they are collecting?
Harikeśa: Crabs, I think. Crabs.
Indian man (4): Swamijī? It is prohibited to consume, consume flesh, meat. It's because there is soul in the body and if we kill it, therefore we are doing a sin. I think it's because that we can't consume meat according to the Vedic literature. But what about plants, Swamijī?
Prabhupāda: Plants also, you... They are also killed. They are also killed. But this is... Plants are killed by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are not responsible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But there's practically no one to preach to if we don't preach to them.
Prabhupāda: They are rascals. What is the use? That is advised, prema-maitri kṛpopekṣā, four things. Preacher—there are four things for him. One thing is he should love God. He should make friendship with devotees. He should preach amongst the innocent, and he should kick on the face of the atheist. Upekṣā. "Hut! (laughter) I don't like you." That's all, no business with him. This is preacher. Preacher should love God; preacher should make friendship with devotees; preacher will preach amongst the innocent, poor; and those who are atheist, nonbeliever, kick on his face. Don't care for him. "Go away. Get out." That's all. That much mercy upon them. "Get out, rascal." But sometimes we take the risk of talking with these rascals also. That is our mercy. But according to śāstra, they are to be kicked out. They are not to be taken care of because it is waste of time.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hariśauri: A straw roof, they call that thatching. Thatch.
Prabhupāda: Thatching, yes. That is right. So the windows are thatched. So where is the production? Vivekananda is standing as preacher. So where is the preachers? People should have gone there in hundreds; there should have been some program. So where is the program? Simply "Vivekananda house." Lick up the house. (break) ...rows of statues on the beach, many statues—for passing stool by the crows. I have seen in Calcutta one statue of Sir Asutosh Mukherjee. So in the morning, on the day of the birth anniversary, in the morning the municipal sweepers with their brush, they will rub it to cleanse the solidly stuck-up crow's stool with water. It will be done for three, four hours. Then in the evening, big, big men will come, gather, and offer him garland one after another, just like they were offering me. In this way the meeting will be held. In the morning it is brushed with the sweeper's street brush, and in the evening it is offered garland. I have seen it. Here also I see that she has kept Kṛṣṇa's mūrti outside. It is aparādha.
Indian man (1): That I don't know. Every day they are preaching...
Prabhupāda: Ask them that "What is the meaning of your reading Bhagavad-gītā daily if you go against it?"
Indian man (1): But they are not going, but the preachers who comes there, they are doing it.
Prabhupāda: What they are doing?
Acyutānanda: They bring in preachers to preach Bhagavad-gītā, but they themselves, they don't read Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: So preachers means third-class preachers. Anybody is allowed to speak, any nonsense? That is going on?
Devotee: How they are going against it, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You read Bhagavad-gītā? You do not know how they are going against?
Devotee: I'm not familiar with this.
Hari-śauri: He didn't like that.
Prabhupāda: Again he became angry. "Somebody else than me? I am God."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I am world preacher."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is so kind that He is sitting in everyone's heart to give him good advice. There is no need of asking. He is only finding out the good opportunity to speak to him. (Bengali) Two birds sitting? So He is always eager to give you advice. He comes down to give you advice. So we are not taking the advice. That is the position.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sarvasya cāham...
Indian man (2): Hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭaḥ, He said. So who is taking His advice? Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). Who is surrendering? Hm? Therefore Kṛṣṇa came again as Caitanya Mahāprabhu how—to surrender—but still the rascals will not do that.
Hṛdayānanda: Bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. The beginning is arcā, arcana. And because he was given the chance of arcana, if he thinks that "I become paramahaṁsa," then he's a foolish. It will take time. The process is there. Therefore preaching is madhyama-adhikārī. One should take to preaching work gradually. When the preaching... Preachers, they have got discrimination, "Here is abhakta; here is bhakta." But in the paramahaṁsa stage, uttama-adhikārī, he sees "Everyone is devotee. I am not devotee." That is uttama-adhikārī. Just like Kavirāja Gosvāmī said, purīṣera kīṭa haite muñi se laghiṣṭha (CC Adi 5.205). Sanātana Gosvāmī said that "I am born in low-grade family. My work is low grade." (break) ...issued that complaint? "I am the counterpart."
Prabhupāda: Dhāma. Therefore it is called dhāma. Dhāma means not material world. Goloka-dhāma, Vṛndāvana-dhāma. So dhāma is not material world. (aside:) Not to go away. (break) ...visible with these eyes, similarly, dhāma also is not visible with these eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). That is dhāma. Premāñjana.
Jagadīśa: (break) In Toronto, Śrīla Prabhupāda... When we purchased the new church in Toronto we sold all the church pews. And Billy Graham... Do you know who Billy Graham is? He's an Evangelist preacher in the United States. He sometimes went to that church to preach. So when we sold the pews we would tell people that "Billy Graham sat in this pew," and they would become excited to purchase.
Prabhupāda: So it was sold in good price?
Jagadīśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice.
Hṛdayānanda: As you are always saying, Prabhupāda, these people are not becoming purified. This one man who Jagadīśa mentioned, he's the most famous Christian preacher practically in the Western world. Now he's becoming older, about sixty. Recently they asked him that "If you could live your life again, would you live the same life or a different life?" So he said, "I am very sorry because I spent too much of my time preaching. I should have spent more time with my family."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he actually said that?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. At the end of life this is his...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's the foremost Christian preacher in the world right now, Prabhupāda.
Hṛdayānanda: He said, "I accepted too many invitations to go preach. I should have spent time with my family."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will make him more popular, and they'll say he's more religious.
Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...already left to preach.
Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (break) Eh? Dhunvanti, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.(?) This is Kṛṣṇa. In one second He can make it purified. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). Simply surrender.
Prabhupāda: It can be organized. The children should be raised Kṛṣṇa devotees. The woman can be engaged. Everyone can be engaged. I can give you suggestion if you can execute.
Hṛdayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we were thinking that it would be nice to have the cities, city-centers, for the preachers, and those, for example, women, children, it's much easier to maintain them on our farms. That way they can do a little work and produce their own food and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the farms they can live and do some handwork.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Guru-kṛpā: They won't do it, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hṛdayānanda: They must do.
Prabhupāda: Then you don't allow. Don't allow that. Don't allow.
Guru-kṛpā: That's good.
Prabhupāda: If they do not follow the rules and regulations, then what is the use?
Hṛdayānanda: We were thinking that unless someone is a preacher, he has no real business in the city. Let him go have a peaceful life out on the farm.
Yaśodānandana: It has been seen that when many householders come together in many of our big communities, because there are so many women and children, there is a great atmosphere of laziness a lot of times. I have seen in Los Angeles and also in many other temples. But when there's a lot of brahmacārīs preaching, it's much more enlivening.
Prabhupāda: So now you make some regulation. Otherwise... Attending class? No.
Hṛdayānanda: Excuse me?
Prabhupāda: They attend class?
Gargamuni: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Gargamuni: Yeah, they attend aratikas and class because there's no other activity there.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also good.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't think anyone as low.
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, so this will be difficult for the preachers, to see them not as Chinese but as actually Kṛṣṇa's servants too.
Prabhupāda: No, no, our devotees will not see like that. Our devotees will not see like that. (break) ...sama-darśinaḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). A paṇḍita is sama-darśī. He does not see anyone as low or high. That is paṇḍita. There is a verse in Bhagavad-gītā, "One who sees Me in everything and everything in Me..." What is that verse?
Guru-kṛpā: Yo māṁ paśyati sarvatra.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: Sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is wanted. Chinese Communist philosophy, does anybody know? What is that? What philosophy? They have got some philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's birthplace? Make some nice building with some devotees, one to take care. That's all. Means making interested the local inhabitants.
Pañca-draviḍa: Start programs.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. They should come and hear. The preachers, wanted.
Jayapatākā: They showed me that one flat of five bighās that.... They were considering giving this to us if we would develop one guesthouse and one institute.
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot make any condition. Whatever we shall like we shall do. There is no condition. If they give us on lease, they are concerned with the rent. That's all. Yes.
Jayapatākā: But they were willing to give outright.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayapatākā: They were going to give outright one piece of land. They just requested that.... Their idea was that they hoped there would be a, some place for studying Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's books, one type of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura institute or library where people could.... All of his books would be collected, and his works...
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is a good idea. That we can do.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes the question is raised that Lord Caitanya predicted the holy name will be preached in every town and village throughout the world, so to what extent will it be preached?
Prabhupāda: That will depend on the preacher.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, will there be preaching centers in every town and village, or will it just be a question of traveling through and preaching to the people and ticking off that we've been there?
Prabhupāda: No.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think so.
Prabhupāda: Traveling is essential. If possible there may be centers.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But our ambition should not be simply to go to every town and village simply so that we can say we went to every town and village. We should actually try to...
Prabhupāda: No, why village? Everywhere you go, town, village, everywhere. Abaddha-karuṇā-sindhu, nitāi katiyā mohan, ghare ghare, kare dāna, like that. Abaddha-karuṇā-sindhu, nitāi katiyā mohan, ghare ghare durlabha prema, kare dāna. Brahmā durlabha prema kare dāna,(?)like that. So ghare ghare. Not only village to village but door to door. Yes.
Prabhupāda: This preaching is done by Śyāmasundara's little daughter, five years, six years. She goes to a gentleman, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" So he says, "No, I do not know." "The Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just see. This is preaching. A child can do this preaching work. She has learned from us, and she is convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and she goes to anyone, "Do you know who is Kṛṣṇa?" He says, "No, I do not know." "The Supreme Personality." This is preaching. Then he is a good preacher. That's all. The rascal does not know Kṛṣṇa. He gets at least some information, "Here is Kṛṣṇa." And on this basis our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, Ph.D.... You have read that book? It is first class. The scientist, so-called scientist, unless he is insane, he cannot say that there is no God. He has written so nice, from scientific.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This just came from Los Angeles along with some other things. They're having an international yoga and meditation conference in Chicago in June, and Rāmeśvara was wanting to know if we should send some of our preachers there, try and have some kind of a booth or take part in it.
Prabhupāda: If it is possible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is sponsored by the Himalayan International Institute of Yoga Science and Philosophy, Swami Rama from the Himalayas.
Prabhupāda: Bogus. He's a bogus. Then don't take part.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's many.... It's costing fifteen dollars for people to get in.
Prabhupāda: So we are not going to give.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is not to be preached. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Go to do good to others. First of all you do good to yourself." First of all you become really preacher. Then go to preach. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never sent neophyte to go to preach. For neophyte the preaching is not their business. For neophyte, one should stick to the worship of Deity in the temple. And those who have understood the philosophy, applied the philosophy in his life, he should go for preaching. Otherwise he'll preach wrongly, like.... What is that? Charan das Babaji. And it will stop. He wanted to preach, but he did not know how to preach, and therefore, after his life, it is finished. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu does not say like that, that "You remain a rascal and go to preach." No. Janma sārthaka kari. "Your first business is that you make your life perfect. Then go to preach. Perfect means you learn how to obey My orders." That is perfection. Āmāra ājñāya. So if you are actually, perfectly carrying out the orders of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then you are preaching. Otherwise you will do wrongly, mislead. Don't do that. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If you remain blind, don't try to lead other blind men. That is misleading. First of all open your eyes. Everything is there. Nobody can do anything whimsically. If you do whimsically, concoctedly, that will be failure. It will not be effective.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...they say, Santa Monica?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is cleaner there.
Rāmeśvara: Yesterday you suggested that I send groups of brahmacāriṇīs to that farm in Oregon where Yamunā-mātājī is staying, but I was thinking that, actually, she is a very, very wonderful preacher, and if she can visit our temples more often, then she can.... In other words, it's more expensive and difficult to send so many people to her...
Prabhupāda: So, do that.
Rāmeśvara: Otherwise, she can come to us.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's also a healthier environment, I think. It's a little...
Rāmeśvara: She lives alone with Dīna-tāriṇī. She doesn't have much association. She's keeping herself apart a little bit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think, that's one..., there's one disadvantage is that they have a little bit of a, their attitude is a little bit separatist from ISKCON in the sense of keeping aloof, and if the girls go there and live there, they may develop that same mentality. It might be better for her to come to the temples to teach.
Prabhupāda: Then make arrangement; I have not objection.
Rāmeśvara: They could just be so valuable to helping our temples if they agreed to preach to our devotees. They could train. (break) ...brought the reporters from Time magazine over to see our temple. I had Mother Yamunā prepare some prasādam, and she was also serving them, and then she was explaining about prasādam and preaching. So I could understand that as long as she stays on that farm, she's limiting herself, because she's an excellent preacher. She could be very valuable, expert preacher. In her.... Their idea is that they would like to make their farm a little bigger, with more women living with them.
Prabhupāda: I like that idea.
Rāmeśvara: There will be no man to help give advice, just the women manage it all themselves.
Prabhupāda: Just like in Vṛndāvana there is bhajanāśrama, they're only women.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śyāmabhajis?
Prabhupāda: Not śyāmabhajis, but bhajanāśrama.
Rāmeśvara: So that's a good idea.
Prabhupāda: With man is dangerous for both. I, I have given that: man is good, woman is good, when they come together-bad. Both of them bad.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting, "Spread books."
Dānavīr: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one boy who just joined a few months ago, and he had been reading your books, and he came to join the temple. He had graduated from college and he's been to law school, and we found out after some time that his father, his name was Dr. Royal McClain, he was a very, very big preacher in the South, and he had his own television program.
Rāmeśvara: Christian. His father was the biggest Christian preacher in the South, he had his own TV show. Very big preacher, very strict Christian, and his son joined our movement. So the father calls up the son, "How could you desert our religion and join this Kṛṣṇa movement?" So.... (laughter)
Satsvarūpa: And their discussion is very blasphemous. This Dr. Dimmock, he's made much investigation on the Six Gosvāmīs, and he's read all manuscripts, and he's always going to India and studying Rūpa Gosvāmī and Lord Caitanya, but everything is extremely blasphemous that he writes. So in both ways, in their habits and whatever they write. The Library Party men, they become friendly to these professors, but only to use them more or less, that they'll accept our books, despite themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we must do. (break) ...policy is when we go to a, what is called, a bad character, we don't go to associate with him, but to give him our association. Therefore we must be strong and very pure, so that your association, they will be benefited. For the preachers, īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu, the four behavior. Īśvara, tad-adhīneṣu, devotees, bāliśeṣu, innocent, and dviṣatsu, those who are envious. So a devotee, those who are preachers, they, prema, loving God, making friendship with devotee, and those who are innocent, to deliver. And those who are envious, reject.
Prabhupāda: So what is not practical for you, our system, your system is also not practical for us. We cannot live in this way. Anyway, if you can maintain a perfect community of plain living, high thinking, that is sufficient. We do not canvass, but naturally they will see that this is convenient. After all, they are human beings. They are learning. So that is part of our business to preach, but to practice personally, that is our main business. To practice personally, that is our main business. Not that everyone will be preacher, but at least his own life be perfect. What is this kijariya?
Kulaśekhara: I don't know if it's spelled right, Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: Kī jaya.
Kīrtanānanda: Kī jaya
Prabhupāda: Kī jaya. Oh.
Kulaśekhara: It is misspelled? I'm no Sanskrit scholar, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Guruban dhāma kī, that kī should be different.
Kulaśekhara: K-i?
Prabhupāda: No, not kijaya. Kī one word, jaya one word. Just like Guruban one word, dhāma one word. Similarly kī one word and jaya.
Prabhupāda: Two monks means Buddhist monks?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Possibly. And he mentions in the last two weeks after we left Vṛndāvana we picked eight devotees, so they must have more devotees by now. The emphasis on their program he mentions is to make devotees and responsible preachers to carry on the Indian mission. And then he says that we've been advertising.
Prabhupāda: Advertising?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like this. He says "I want to make one banner and poster: 'Now you can join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Travel all over the world preaching Bhagavad-gītā. All expenses paid. Free food, lodging, etc. No qualification necessary. Apply ISKCON.' " It's like army recruiting.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No qualification.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And he mentions the situation in Germany, at least the devotees are becoming a little stronger now. Saṅkīrtana is going on nicely.
Prabhupāda: That's all that we want. Saṅkīrtana must go on.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but generally. We do not derive any benefit from those. People read it, especially in the Western counties. If there is no newspaper it is hell. I told you this story? Yes. You can repeat that.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: The preacher was preaching to the coal miners that if they were not good, they would go to hell, and in hell it was very cold. So they were thinking, "So it is very cold in the mine." Then he was saying that it is very dark in hell. "But it is very dark in the mine." Then he said "And there are no newspapers." "Oh, how horrible, what a horrible place that must be."
Prabhupāda: When they heard in the hell there is no newspaper, then came to the idea, "Oh, it is horrible." Otherwise, cold, dark, "Oh, this is our custom. We are already accustomed to these habits, we are working in the mine. So don't make any distinction between hell and our present residential quarters. But if there is no newspaper, certainly that is hell."
Prabhupāda: "This is our religion." What is religion? "No God." What is religion? Then, those who are godless, they have got religion. Atheism has got religion. Then why bring this religion? What is the meaning of religion? Just see.
Pradyumna: One time we went to a church in Boston to speak. They had only a pulpit for the preacher, and behind, no altar, no crucifix, nothing, just big map of outer space with planets on the wall. Not even any Christian church, but no cross, nothing. Only universe. Universalist Church, it's called. The Universalists.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, but give some information of the universe.
Hari-śauri: Says, "Religion: 1. monastic condition, being a monk or a nun, enter into a monastic order; 2. practice of sacred rites; 3. one of the prevalent systems of faith and worship, i.e. Christian, Muhammadan, etc.; 4. human recognition of superhuman controlling power and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, effect of such recognition on conduct and mental attitude."
Prabhupāda: This is religion. Personal conception of God.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee (2): You cannot buy a devotee.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible.
Devotee (2): You can buy someone to sweep the floor, but you cannot buy a preacher.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. So so long we remain devotees, our movement will go, without any check.
Devotee (2): Devotees should take over the world.
Prabhupāda: Yeah, that is... That is good for the world.
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: If devotees take up the whole world for management, then everyone will be happy. It is no doubt it. Kṛṣṇa wants that. He wanted the Pāṇḍavas should be in charge of the government. Therefore He took part in the fighting. "Yes, you should be the... All the Kauravas should be killed, and Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira installed." That is the dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). He wants everything goes very smoothly and people become God conscious. So their life be successful. That is Kṛṣṇa's plan. That, "These rascal misleading and therefore... the (indistinct) the human life has been spoiled." Therefore I was talking about the "What is the meaning of the independence, (indistinct)?" ? The life is spoiled. And they will spoil their life and become next life a dog, and this big, big building, with stair, that's all. What the big buildings will do benefit to these people who is going to be a dog next life? Taking as a theory, that those who have constructed this big, big building and next life they're going to be a dog.
Prabhupāda: First part, take it.
Vṛṣākapi(?): Chapter Three?
Prabhupāda: In Muslim country, Christians, or the Americans preaching Hindu religion, it has been taken very seriously in Iran. Three different elements: preaching center is Muhammadan, and the preacher is American, and the cult Hindu. (laughs) So the princess of Iran and her husband, they are, up to date, they are very much appreciating. The daughter of Shah.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, you read the contents.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas, that is already explained. If you cannot convince them, then avoid them. What can be done? Instead of wasting time, you better avoid them. Upekṣā. Useless. Because godless persons means duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. So it is the duty of the preacher to enlighten them also, to take some risk. But if one is unable to take risk, he may avoid them.
Devotee (1): When we go to universities, so often we run into very educated people, so-called educated people. Of course, they see us, they think that we are simply sentimentalists, that actually we are not..., don't really have knowledge of the universe. I've explained to these people, it's not necessarily that they are sinful so much as they are just miseducated.
Prabhupāda: No, educated means they have knowledge, but real knowledge is taken away. He does not know God. Just like a man is rich, but he has no food. It is like that. māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Therefore his knowledge is misused, duṣkṛtina. This knowledge, without any sense of God... Yes, come in. Sit down.
Prabhupāda: We don't sit down idly.
Bali-mardana: God helps those who help themselves.
Prabhupāda: We are not idle preachers, we are working. All, very hard, more than the karmīs.
Rāmeśvara: These men, they go out to engage people in taking our books maybe twelve hours a day sometimes, ten hours a day, without any salary.
Prabhupāda: I am now eighty years old, I am working twenty-four hours. I think I work more than my young disciples (laughter).
Bali-mardana: Oh yes, definitely.
Prabhupāda: I work at night.
Rāmeśvara: It is hard to keep up with Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: Very difficult.
Prabhupāda: We are not idle creatures.
Interviewer: Prabhu, the... Can you tell us a little bit about the plans you have for your project in India?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I wanted to start this movement from India. I even requested Mahatma Gandhi, that "Mahatmaji, you have got some respect all over the world, and you are known as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. Now you have got your sva-rājya, the Britishers have gone away. Let us preach Bhagavad-gītā." But I don't think I got any reply from him. Of course he was very busy man. My letter might have reached him or not reached him. The secretaries might have rejected. I think received from secretary, like that. But then after few days he was killed. So I was trying for this purpose in India. I approached many friends, that "You have got four sons. Give me one son so that I can train him how to become a real preacher of Bhagavad-gītā, how one can understand." Because Bhagavad-gītā is being misinterpreted. So I wanted to preach it as it is. That was my mission. So practically nobody joined me. Then I decided to come here. And these boys cooperated. So I have got great desire to... Because India is by nature Kṛṣṇa conscious, but our modern leaders keeping them suppressed. That is the difficulty. There are so many other difficulties, and leaders are misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā. To tell you frankly, there are so many commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā by Dr. Radhakrishna, by Gandhi, by Tilak, by Aurobindo, or many others. But nobody has said that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." Do you admit or not? Has anybody said that, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You are searching after God. Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Worship Him"? Nobody has stated. Am I right or not?
Prabhupāda: And another thing, even Kṛṣṇa says, giving His opinion—that's taking it as it is—Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So He's the supreme authority. So supreme authority's matam is a high-court judgment. There is no argument anymore. The judgment is given by the high-court. Final decision. So if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then who can give him better opinion than Him? For argument's sake, even if He says... Any gentleman will say like that, that... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You do it." He is Supreme Lord, He can force you, but He does not do that. So although His matam is the Supreme, but as a gentle preacher, He says, "That is My matam." But if you are sane, if you know that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, then His matam is final.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Good determination.
Bali-mardana: They say that Tamāla Kṛṣṇa is very convincing. When he wants to persuade someone, the person must do it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, just it would give... There are so many good... Of course, everywhere there are good devotees, but here there are so many strong preachers that if you stay here on the basis that they had to increase their preaching, we would double and triple our preaching. There's no question. We would throw out all considerations of inconvenience to ourselves and simply preach day and night.
Bali-mardana: Especially New York, the people are ready for it. Like today, they have taken part very nicely. Even the policemen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're so favorable. Rāmeśvara was commenting. He said he never saw... The climate of the people of New York is unique in America. They are very favorable.
Prabhupāda: So where is that man? Where he has gone? 7-UP can be had anywhere.
Prabhupāda: Academic is ordinary, ABCD, that's all. Not very much. But these arts. They should learn how to cook nicely.
Jyotirmāyī: And what should the boys be taught from ten to sixteen?
Prabhupāda: The principle is same, that when they grow up they learn the śāstra. The more they read, the more they learn. Then they become preacher, teacher. The grown-up children, those who are fifteen, sixteen, they can teach five-, six-years-old.
Jyotirmāyī: Then they can take responsibility themselves.
Prabhupāda: In this way. Elderly student... That is the way of Indian teaching, that there is one teacher, and how he's managing hundreds? That means there are groups. One who is elderly student, he's taking some beginners: "Write a or A like this." That he can teach. What he has learned, he can teach. Similarly, next group, next group. So in this way, one teacher can manage hundreds of students of different categories. This is organization. Not that everything I have to do. I cannot teach anybody to do it. That is not intelligence. Intelligence is that employ others to help you. That is intelligence.
Prabhupāda: He's good preacher. He's now distributing books very nicely. You are also good distributor books. Huh? In the beginning she was distributing nicely. So preaching is our life. The more we preach, the more we are successful. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa'
This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Every one of you become guru and deliver the residents of your neighborhood. Ei deśa. Wherever you are living, just deliver them. Become their guru. How to become guru? It is not difficult. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). What Kṛṣṇa has said instruct them. You simply repeat it, that's all. You become guru. So this should be preached all over the world. You learn from Bhagavad-gītā and repeat. You simply say, "Kṛṣṇa said four things: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). 'Just always think of Me.' Kṛṣṇa said. 'And just become My devotee. Just worship Me and offer obeisances.' Kindly do these things." So if you can induce one person to do these four things, you become guru. Is there any difficulty? Then you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How? Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Worship Kṛṣṇa and offer obeisances. Here is our temple, please come, offer obeisances. Offer little flower if you can secure. Otherwise, obeisances sufficient. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: I don't think that's too difficult. You're the best friend for everyone.
Prabhupāda: No, but after all, they are children. How they can take it as it is? So they are fortunate children, and their parents and everyone should take care of them. A very difficult age.
Hari-śauri: You always said they're our asset for the future.
Prabhupāda: If they can be trained up, they can become very good preacher, each one of them. And they can make hundreds of devotees. In this way we can expand. Are you realizing that there is no civilization? Actually civilization we are introducing. Except Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization, there is no civilization—animal society. What do you think? Are you convinced about it?
Harikeśa: Oh, yes, every time I walk out the door I'm convinced. And when you come back to the temple, it's marvelous, the spiritual world. No matter what going on, may be bad, may be good, doesn't matter. It's very relieving.
Prabhupāda: Civilization means to push the man forward for perfection. That is civilization.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching method. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, tṛṇād api sunīcena. You can explain that:
- tṛṇād api sunīcena
- taror api sahiṣṇunā
- amāninā mānadena
- kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ
- (CC Adi 17.31)
This is the method by the preacher.
Bhagavān: A devotee should always feel lower than the straw in the street. (Mrs. Marchand speaks)
Translator: She wants to know if it is recommended that a woman become a sannyāsī.
Prabhupāda: Woman should stay under the father, under the husband, and under the elderly sons. Nothing more. Therefore it is the duty of the father to give her in charge of a young man when she is young. This is Vedic culture.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. Unless one feels like that and asks somebody, a superior, accepts him as guru, there is no use talking. It will not be useful. This is the position. If the injunction is tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12), if anyone is interested to know about the transcendental subject matter, he must approach a guru, and unless one approaches a guru, he cannot understand, and if by force I become guru, he may not be interested. This is the position. But still, for a preacher, he has to do something against all odds. That is preaching. You cannot expect favorable position. Your question was that we go and they say like this, but you cannot expect that wherever you are going you'll find favorable situation to talk. That you must understand. But you have to preach, you have to create favorable situation. That is your duty.(?) You cannot expect. If they are not prepared to take good instruction. Where is that fan?
Hari-śauri: He's bringing it.
Prabhupāda: So how we are independent? Did Mr. Freud not die? When prakṛti, nature, kicked on his face, he immediately died. So how he's independent? These rascals have created all troubles. The so-called rascal philosophers, scientists, politicians, they have created all troubles. He's completely dependent on nature, on the laws of nature, and still he says, "I am independent. I have grown up." What you have grown up? You have grown up as a great fool, that's all. You have not grown up to be intelligent. You have grown up a great rascal, that's all. So refute them in this way, then you'll be preacher. So what is your argument about humanity?
Dayānanda: Well, if God is, as you say...
Prabhupāda: God is the father.
Arundhatī: Prabhupāda is asking if you need those glasses.
Prabhupāda: Yes? All right. So our, this philosophy is to educate the human being to know about God. That's all. We have no other business. We're writing books on this subject matter, distributing them, educating them. We are creating preachers who can educate. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Others are denying the human rights. We are giving the human rights. We are so benevolent. Suppose your father has got some money. You are child, you do not know. But if somebody tries to hide that money or does not give you, utilizes for some other purposes; another friend is trying to give you your father's money—who is better friend, hm? Who is better friend? You cannot distinguish who is better friend?
Shahrezad: I don't know. Yes, I can, but...
Prabhupāda: Nandarāṇī?
Nandarāṇī: The man who is giving the father's what?
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have got your father's money, you do not know. One friend is trying to hide that money, another friend is trying to give you that money. So who is better friend?
Nandarāṇī: The one who is giving or trying to give.
Prabhupāda: So that was my policy, that I shall go America, and if the Americans become devotees then these rascals will be automatically. Here they could not appreciate. When I started, wanted to start this movement, they refused to give their son.
Hari-śauri: They always say a preacher is never appreciated in his home town.
Prabhupāda: "Swamiji, what benefit there will be by becoming brāhmaṇa, by devotee? They have to earn their livelihood." Spiritual culture is in India practically rejected. They are convinced with the idea that for spiritual culture we are so much behind this material. That is their full conviction.
Hari-śauri: It must have been a big shock for them when they first saw our devotees. It must have been a big shock for them when they saw these shaved heads and chanting.
Prabhupāda: That minister is coming?
Maṇihāra: Today?
Prabhupāda: Somebody told?
Gargamuni: Yes, at 10:30 they said. Gopāla said he's coming. I don't know, but I will ask.
Maṇihāra: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we give prasāda to people...
Prabhupāda: Anyone who comes, he must be given prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Neophyte means that kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. One worships the Deity very nicely but he does not like to do good to others. Neither he knows who is Vaiṣṇava. He's neophyte. He is, in the arcanā, he's fixed up, he's doing very nicely. Arcāyām eva haraye. Yaḥ śraddhā..., pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate na tad-bhakteṣu. One does not understand who is bhakta. Na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu. And how to do good to others. But he's doing the Deity worship very nicely. Sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. He's prākṛta. But he can advance when his, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he understands "Here is a Vaiṣṇava. Here is an innocent man. He should be given some enlightenment." That is preacher. When he'll feel for others. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to you." Tato vimukha-cetasa. And that is Vaiṣṇava. Advanced devotee. For me I have no anxiety. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vai... There may be so many dangers. I don't care for them. Naiva udvije. "I am not disturbed by all these things." Udvije. Para duratyaya. Even it is very insurmountable, dangerous position, I don't care. How? Tvad-vīrya-gāyana-mahāmṛta-magna-cittaḥ (SB 7.9.43)." Because when I think of You, chant of Your glories, I don't care for that." Then you appear to be morose? "Yes." Why? Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa. "I am thinking of these rascals who are averse to You. How to do... They are engaged in false activities, māyā-sukhāya, for temporary happiness of the senses.
Akṣayānanda: And there's no need for me to go out. There's so many nice sannyāsīs. So many big preachers and so many buses. So if we just try it.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Īśvara Candra prabhu has come from Mathurā. (break)
Prabhupāda: When you will come to preach something. You take it from me.
Īśvara Candra: Last one and a half year I'm trying for something in Mathurā but I'm...
Prabhupāda: You are trying in your own way. But Kṛṣṇa does not like that program. You can manufacture your something, idea, but Kṛṣṇa will allow or not. I tell you. This is practical. You are a qualified man, foreign educated man, and you have come back for the last one and a half years, still you are in nothing. It is surprising. That means Kṛṣṇa does not want you to do that something. You take it from me. These boys have come because they found, outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness, life is nothing. That's a fact. Therefore they are sticking to this. They knew it very well. That outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness the whole world was vacant, "Nothing for us." That is a fact. Therefore they have got something here. They are not foolish rascals, they're sticking for nothing. There is something. It's a fact. So for nothing, "Oh, we have suffered." And come to something. If you want. That's Prāṇava, he is trying for something. He has come also to Vṛndāvana more than one year or two.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
If they have got little brain, then kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa upadeśa, that's all. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very simple. The preacher does not require to be very highly educated. If he follows simply Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), then he's successful. No ostādi.
Prabhupāda: So why you are forced? Suppose as preaching work... In our childhood we saw the Christian preachers were also standing on the road. So if we stand on the road and preach and sell our books what is the fault?
Interviewer: I put that. He said you are doing what the Christian... (break)
Prabhupāda: No. The government allowed them, the Christian people. The government is allowing us also. Then where is the fault?
Interviewer: The fault is...
Prabhupāda: That is your imagination, fault.
Interviewer: It's not a legal fault.
Prabhupāda: Well, that's all right. We are preacher, we must preach in every way. We shall go everyone, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa consciousness literature. Kindly take it." That is our business. The government does not object to this. There are many cases in the court and the court allowed, "Yes. They should sell."
Prabhupāda: Is there any chance of opening?
Indian man: Yes. In Ahmedabad? Why not? There is no obstruction. The Christians have now opened up two centers. Arya-samaj has opened one. So there is no restriction. And these areas, like Ahmedabad or in some of the African countries where people have still no inclination or no knowledge of one particular kind of religion or particular thing, they are open to anything which is given to them.
Prabhupāda: There must be preacher, good preacher.
Indian man: Preacher of their language. But language (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Language can be managed if there is good preacher.
Indian man: But in these areas they don't require such intelligent preachers. Intelligence is required in cities where people are full of logic and want to argue right or wrong. And where they're determined to prove that "You are wrong, I am right," there you require...
Prabhupāda: That will not help. That is my propaganda. If they are induced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Indian man: That's all. But for that very big preaching is not required. Sincerity is required.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Yes.
Hari-śauri: Everything is there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, that why... It depends on the teacher. If the teacher is a very good speaker and preacher, he can, right in the introduction, point out how this yoga is different from the other yogas which are bogus.
Prabhupāda: Don't say it is different. It is the authorized.
Hari-śauri: There's no need to mention anything else.
Prabhupāda: It is authorized, and it is taught by Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Others are unauthorized. This is authorized. And that's a fact. This is authorized. And others, those, they are manufactured. Just like they have manufa...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It is authorized in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: In every... Bhagavad... This is Vedic. Bhagavad-gītā means the words of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And which other way can be authorized way? You have to impress that upon.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: A part of it, not the whole thing.
Prabhupāda: Nobody says that "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa." That is their fault.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You can bring the car down at ten o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Nobody says, "Here is God." That is, perhaps... We Vaiṣṇavas say; I am preaching. Perhaps I am the first preacher to the world, that "Here is God."
Dr. Patel: Some of these great Vaiṣṇava ācāryas were doing interpretation of Bhagavad-gītā...
Prabhupāda: The who is ācārya except the Vaiṣṇava ācārya? All loafer class. All loafer class. They're not ācāryas. Except these Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, who is ācārya? They're not ācāryas. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyān (SB 11.17.27).
Dr. Patel: I read your Bhagavad-gītā, and after that, I read Rāmānuja's. They more or less the same...
Prabhupāda: Same thing. There is no difference between the ācāryas. Then how he becomes ācārya if there is difference of opinion? They cannot be ācārya. (end)
Prabhupāda: Everyone says. It is purely Indian culture, and I am not getting any help from the government although they have got cultural department. Some dancing party will go; they'll pay. That is culture. And cultural knowledge is religion. This is the position. (Hindi) Real culture is neglected. And some dancing party in the name of culture will draw money and go.
Guest (1): Perhaps he is right, Swamiji. Nobody has studied this movement deeply.
Prabhupāda: Why they don't study? It is going on worldwide. They are studying.
Indian lady (2): They do not study because they give their opinion.
Indian lady (3): Like Swamiji, the karma-yoga is very important in India.
D. D. Desai: It is true, Swamiji. You are a preacher, teacher, everything. So one of your responsibilities will be obviously to make any ignorant man knowledgeable.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So we are trying to do that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). It will be accepted by the devotees, not the karmī, jñānī, yogis, no. Only bhaktas. Therefore mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati. So we have got two functions: first of all we are trying to make them bhakta, and then convincing him about this philosophy. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Without being bhakta, nobody will understand what is yoga. The beginning is bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyam ekam uttamam: (BG 4.3) "Because, Arjuna, you are My bhakta, I'll explain to you. Otherwise it is lost." So without being a bhakta, nobody can understand Bhagavad-gītā. However he may say that "I am very staunch devotee. I am reader of...," he will misunderstand. So here Kṛṣṇa clearly says that "This is the most confidential knowledge. And without being bhakta, nobody will be able to understand." So the preacher has got two different businesses. One side, he has to make bhakta. The persons will... Because without being bhakta, he cannot understand. Then he teaches. So these two businesses going on in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. To become bhakta there is Deity—"Come here. Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ: Just think of Me: Just man-manā. And become a devotee."
Prabhupāda: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). So on the whole, people are in darkness. And that is going on as advancement. This is the only institution to give them some light. There is no doubt about it. All in the darkness. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in darkness, and some leader comes, he is also in the darkness, and both of them fall into the ditch. This is going on. Do you agree to this point? Otherwise you cannot become good preacher. You must yourself, must be convinced that actually this is the position. All these rascals, scientists, philosophers, politicians—they're all in darkness, and they're misguiding people. That's all. One of the first-class rascal in darkness is your Darwin. He's in favor of Darwin's theory. Another first-class demon is that Freud. (laughter) These are the guides of the modern civilization. Anthropomorphism. No? What is called?
Gargamuni: Anthropology?
Prabhupāda: Anthropology.
Prabhupāda: That is faithfulness in God. Why a preacher should be bothered about maintaining himself?
Rāmeśvara: Actually there is some good lessons to learn from them, because they were persecuted, they were killed by the government even. But they didn't give up their faith. They remained very faithful, the early Christians.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: And also later missionaries went all over the world alone, to Africa, all countries of the world, converting people, although it was very difficult. So they had a very good missionary spirit formerly. When I went to Fiji I saw many Christian churches in Fiji. Right next door to the house where Vasudeva lives there is a Christian tabernacle, and they wake up every morning at 4:30 and they have hymns-same practice as we have, but it's Christian hymns.
Hari-śauri: Along with all, that, though, they're allowed to please their senses in any way that they like. So their teaching doesn't really have much benefit for anyone. They're still doing all kinds of sinful activity. Now their idea is that if you accept Jesus, it means that you can carry on doing as many sinful activities as you like, but Jesus is going to take all the sinful reaction.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. "He died for us, so why should we suffer?" (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ is the contractor. They say that "Our religion is very good. If you simply have faith in Jesus Christ, we can do anything."
Prabhupāda: If that is the goal, that you have to give up, so we give up immediately, without any difficulty.
Rāmeśvara: But they're making propaganda against this Transcendental Meditation also. The biggest Christian preacher in America—his name is Billy Graham—he is a good friend of former president Nixon and very wealthy. And he has stated publicly that this Transcendental Meditation... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...sees practically.
Gargamuni: These people, though, who follow these processes, they don't dedicate their lives. They follow it for two years, then they get married and they forget the whole thing. While they're students...
Prabhupāda: It is a hobby.
Gargamuni: Just like Gaura-Govinda, he's bringing many villagers here.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He's good preacher.
Hari-śauri: Yes, he's doing nicely.
Gargamuni: And there's 500,000 such villages all over India. And they're more pious. In Sundarban, when Bhavānanda went to the Sundarban jungle, they had tremendous reception.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Hari-śauri: Very good reception.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere.
Gargamuni: And yet there is no roads. There's no lights there. Nothing is there.
Prabhupāda: India is good field. Yes. India is good field.
Prabhupāda: Eastern Indian.
Rāmeśvara: Mostly us, and some bogus so-called gurus.
Hari-śauri: Those charismatic movements, that's like the Jesus Christ movement. The Catholic preachers call that charismatic.
Rāmeśvara: "To estimate the average church attendance in 1976, surveys..." Oh, this just tells you how they took the survey. "So analysis of these figures shows that church attendance is up among all major population groups. The Catholics are better attendees than the Protestants. Women go more often than men." Women go more often than men in America. "Southerners and the Mid-Western"—from the South and the Mid-West—"they attend more frequently than they do in the East, and far more than those living in the West." So this says that people in the West, like California, they're the least religious. People in the East, like New York and Pennsylvania, they're a little more religious, and people in the Mid-West and the South, they're the most religious according to this survey. "Those who are under thirty years of age are less likely to go to church than those who are thirty and over." Younger people... Same trend, giving up...
Prabhupāda: They come to us.
Satsvarūpa: How does a preacher realize? How does a preacher come to realize?
Prabhupāda: He must know that he's servant.
Satsvarūpa: By hearing.
Prabhupāda: By practically knowing he's a... Are you independent, anyone? Everyone is servant. He's serving his senses. That's all. He's servant. He's never master. But he has become the servant of māyā or senses. That's all. He has to change only; instead of becoming servant of māyā, be servant of Kṛṣṇa. Servant he is. Where he'll go? How he will become master? To remain a servant is his position. He cannot become master. That is false pride. As soon as he wants to be master, that is false pride. That is māyā. "So if I am servant, then I have to serve. So why shall I serve the senses' dictation? I will serve Kṛṣṇa, what He says." So he's self-realized immediately, within a second. Where is the difficulty to become self-realized? Hm? Is there any difficulty? He must know that "I am serving. I am never master. But serving the senses, that's all, whims of the senses in the name of independence." That is not possible. Very simple philosophy. One who understands, he's self-realized. And if he preaches, then he becomes recognized. On this principle we shall help everyone. "Come here. Stay with us nicely. Nicely you can. But serve Kṛṣṇa. We take responsibility." Organize in this way throughout the whole world. Give them shelter; give them food; give them cloth. That is the most benevolent welfare activity in the human society. So here people have generally tendency to come to the beach to enjoy. "All right, we shall give you a place. Come on. Stay here. You haven't got to pay anything for food or lodging. Simply attend ārati, classes. Then... For experiment, three days' period, you see."
Gurukṛpā: They are so... They have no brain to even understand this. You cannot talk to them.
Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to do. Otherwise there is no meaning of preacher. Most thankless task. We want to save them, and they accuse us. My Guru Mahārāja used to give that example: A boy is flying kite, and he's going like this. He's just come on the edge of the roof. He is going to fall down. And somebody says, "Hey! What are you doing this for?" (shouts:) "Why you are checking me? Oh, my kite is gone, gone. I have gone back." This is going on. If you want to save them, they will accuse you that "My kite-flying is disturbed. Don't do this." "And why you are. Why...? You'll fall down." "Never mind. That is my business. Why you are checking me?" This example was given by my Guru Mahārāja. You want to save him. Who is a gentleman who will not save him? He is falling down next moment. That is natural. But he is angry. "Why you have checked my kite-flying?" So it is a different type of civilization, a different style of life. If you want to introduce they will accuse you, so many, like madmen. And still we have to do. That is preaching. You cannot expect very smooth life in preaching.
Prabhupāda: No. Our religion is not faith, our religion. It is on science. So we have got more defense. We don't accept such religion—"Two plus two equal to five." It is science—"Two plus two equal to four." It cannot be three, cannot be five. This is our religion.
Satsvarūpa: Since most of our presentation is done by lawyer, how can this practically be brought about that he introduces the books as our main defense? How can he present the books, a lawyer, if there's not a preacher?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of preaching. The lawyer can present that "My client's defense statement is here in these books." "Defense statement." Don't say, "the books." "Defense statements are there."
Hari-śauri: It's all written, already complete.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: "We've already compiled our defense..."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: Like child, bāliśa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They should be trained up. And dviṣatsu, envious. Four division. So four divisions you have to treat in different ways. Prema, Lord, prema, love. Maitrī, friendship with devotees. Kṛpā bāliśu, those who are innocent, the kṛpā. Let them learn. And upekṣā. As soon as come to the dviṣat, no cooperation. Keep aloof. So when we try to keep aloof from the envious, that is not our enviousness. That is just to avoid trouble for preaching work. Not that we hate them. But because... When you avoid a snake, it does not mean I hate the snake, but because he is harmful we have to take precaution. This is the statement of Bhāgavatam. And when you are in the mahā-bhāgavata stage, first-grade, that time, paramahaṁsa, nobody's enemy, nobody's friend. Everyone... That we cannot imitate. It is not... Preacher, even if he's mahā-bhāgavata, he comes to the second stage. Just like Guru Mahārāja. He's mahā-bhāgavata, but still he had to come to the second stage. He had to take precaution. That is natural.
Prabhupāda: "Pūjā-kovida," "pracāra-kovida," like that. We shall... "Kovida" word.
Hari-śauri: What heading does book distribution come under?
Prabhupāda: That is pracāraka. Book distributor-pracāraka, preacher.
Brahmānanda: Temple management?
Prabhupāda: That is, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-man...**. "Mandira-mārjana-kovida." That is recommended. Śrī-vigrahārā... Pūjā. Ārādhana-kovida. This title. "Ārādhana-kovida," "mārjana-kovida," "pracāraka...," "pracāra-kovida." like that—three, four. Not many.
Brahmānanda: So that can go on the top of the certificate?
Prabhupāda: And one who is learned scholar, then "śāstrī," "bhakti-śāstrī."
Harikeśa: In other words, you want "ārādhana-kovida" instead of "pūjā-kovida."
Prabhupāda: Hm. This is like Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Science, like that. Ārādhana-kovida. A.K. (laughter) Instead of B.A., A.K. Make nice paper, nice script, and the titles should be written in handwriting so that he can frame it and keep it.
Prabhupāda: Mahā-pāpī. But one pāpī replaced by is another pāpī. Yes. If they take our advice, then it can be...
Guru dāsa: So your health appears all right to me.
Prabhupāda: I think due to Bhavānanda Mahārāja. He is taking care.
Guru dāsa: Then he should always be with you.
Prabhupāda: I have no objection. He is good preacher in Bengal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is famous as an avatāra there. They say that there is three avatāras of the age. One newspaper reporter reported that there are three avatāras of this age. First one is...
Bhavānanda: Mao Tse Tung of China, Satya Sai Baba from the South...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Bhavānanda Goswami of Māyāpur. (laughter)
Bhavānanda: (laughing) I was an avatāra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I have seen practically, even if they don't regard him as an avatāra, I was amazed, Prabhupāda, that people come and they ask, "Where's Bhavānanda Goswami?" And they look everywhere for him, and then they all bow down. He is famous. Simply because he performed strict cātur-māsya, so many people took notice.
Guru dāsa: He has descended to give you massage. (Bhavānanda is massaging Śrīla Prabhupāda?) (laughter)
Bhavānanda: I think this side is no longer sore.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Striking on the bone, so for an old man striking on the bone is very harmful.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is appreciating this movement. Gradually, they will appreciate.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we saved twenty-five copies of that Times of India article about the court case in New York. Is there something you want done with those twenty-five articles?
Prabhupāda: Some of them should be sent to the municipal chairman, Vṛndāvana.
Gargamuni: They should be used by our preachers, 'cause many times we have met persons who have said, "I heard you have been thrown out of America." A lot of people say that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can give you a few.
Gargamuni: So they should be used to show, "No, we are bona fide religion."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And also they can be sent to the people who you got help from, Prabhupāda. I think you got help from some people in Vṛndāvana like that municipal...
Prabhupāda: That I say.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the reason for that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: He's preaching His glory. He is everything, and these rascals are denying. And He comes: "No, no, no, no. It is wrong." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). And a preacher means he is doing that, training people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Will he not be...? He is... A preacher is giving real sense. To awaken this sense, Kṛṣṇa had to come personally. And he is doing the same work: "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." How much great service it is. Prahlāda Mahārāja... He is asking, his father, that "Why you are training them to Kṛṣṇa?" "Better surrender. He has given you so much strength, so much power." That was... Prahlāda Mahārāja has given him. In spite of so much trouble given to him, he was speaking the same thing repeatedly: "Father, don't do this. Become a devotee." Stubborn. He was giving advice. This is the struggle between devotee and nondevotee. Therefore devotees are so dear to Kṛṣṇa. Despite all opposition, meeting all difficulties, they will say, "No, there is God. We must surrender." So he'll not be very dear? Just like soldiers for the country. They are meeting danger.
Prabhupāda: These are good ideas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And then to include Lord Caitanya, the six Gosvāmīs, and other great ācāryas in our line, up to Your Divine Grace, the foremost preacher of the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the world today."
Prabhupāda: Very good. This is all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Then we would show how Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings are still manifest in India today by the nine devotional processes and the predominant role Kṛṣṇa plays in the culture and religious life of the people in temple worship, painting, dance, music and lifestyle, including offering and taking prasādam, varṇāśrama-dharma, etc... Then testimonials could be given by prominent supporters of our movement and perhaps a short statement by Your Divine Grace..."
Prabhupāda: There is some big, big temples and their proprietor... In every city there are so many Kṛṣṇa temples. Just like in Kanpur there is very important Dvārakādhīśa temple. Many such big cities they have got Kṛṣṇa's pastimes(?).
Prabhupāda: That future hope (laughs) you cannot invest money in, waste. That's not good.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Do something positive. (pause) If you have got preacher, then never mind what is the quarter. Have kīrtana and distribute prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have... We can do that.
Prabhupāda: Then you can do anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have men we can put there. Right, Ādi-keśava?
Prabhupāda: Simply the drunken negroes, call them, "Take prasādam and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can put Bhaktijana there 'cause he's always very fond of preaching. You know, Bhaktijana. He's always wanted to go to Harlem. So...
Prabhupāda: Yes, then we can deliver them. They are, after all, simple. These negroes, they are, after all, simple. We have to claim them. You have got now experience in Detroit. They are very good-behaving negroes. They come to our temple. Nobody could drive there. Therefore we could acquire that house so cheap.
Prabhupāda: This night I'll speak.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what will Akṣayānanda Mahārāja... He'll be for preaching.
Prabhupāda: Whatever may be...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Myer was saying that he..., that Akṣayānanda Mahārāja can remain as the president, and he can do preaching work. They need a good preacher here. And let him do all the management.
Prabhupāda: That will be done.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let Akṣayānanda concentrate on preaching to the people who come here, making members, you know, classes...
Mr. Myer: Yeah, at the moment the quality of our programs is very poor.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So let him...
Mr. Myer: That's one of the biggest problems, where people having... They're not sticking...
Prabhupāda: Whatever I'll say to him, he'll do.
Prabhupāda: What is value of atomic energy? A man is dying; you have accelerated his death. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Landing on the moon..."
Prabhupāda: Have you invented something that man will not die? Then it is approved. They are dying. You have given facilities to die earlier. That is atomic energy. There is no energy which can save him—"No more death." Is that improvement? By nature one dies natural death, and you have accelerated-many millions of people can be killed by this atomic weapon. So what is your achievement? Save millions of people.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Mentally deranged intellectuals are capable of expatiating on their hallucinations."
Prabhupāda: So who is mentally deranged?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says we are. He says, "And they often become founders and preachers of diverse types of religious cults."
Prabhupāda: On that I understand. But weakness is...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Too much weakness. Now we're getting hopeful again, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any ādā? Is that what Prabhupāda asked? You asked for ādā, Prabhupāda? Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of your sannyāsī preachers has just arrived, Haṁsadūta Swami.
Prabhupāda: Oh. (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Musk. He's getting that. (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Call Sac-cid-ānanda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we just called for him. (Bengali)
Bhagatji: He wants that "Once a day, two times I should be informed the condition."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twice a day. Okay. What times?
Bhagatji: At five o'clock in the evening.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Once a day only? (Bengali)
Bhagatji: Once only. (translating:) "What is the change after the medicine, I want to know." (Bengali)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No bath. (Bengali) Towel bath.
Prabhupāda: Dry.
Prabhupāda: We are receiving very good report from Iran.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The royal family is taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I think even your Guru Mahārāja would have been surprised to hear that.
Prabhupāda: Everyone, if one is actually gentleman. So we have this Gurukula, good chance for teaching future preacher. Here is Yaśodā-nandana Mahārāja and others. You can do. Prepare, send. Prepare and send.
Brahmānanda: "Prepare and send," Prabhupāda said. Prepare them and send them.
Prabhupāda: How much tremendous work we have to do.
Brahmānanda: The whole world, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: It's unlimited.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Unlimited.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you have to lead us, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I am prepared, provided Kṛṣṇa allows me.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's your top preacher. I could see that in the future this man... He's the most important preacher, because people are basing everything on these rascal scientists. I think this is only one of your many plans, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's no doubt that you have to make every effort to get back to health. This is only one plan, and I'm seeing it's really inconceivable how these scientists... I never thought to see such people walking into Vṛndāvana. Who would have ever expected it? They all look like Darwin's representatives. But our men look even more scientific than they do. That's the best part of it. And then, even though Svarūpa Dāmodara is in shirt, coat and pants, he has a big tilaka on, and mallikā.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted.
Prabhupāda: I could not follow what he said.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says... He found out that the Bombay temple owed the BBT seventy thousand rupees. So he says when he heard that you had decided that you wanted to live and not leave us, he got very encouraged and inspired. So he decided on his own that he wanted to pay back this money to the BBT for you. He says, "I have been encouraging all the preachers here at ISKCON Bombay to go out and collect the money to pay off this debt to the BBT. Śrīla Prabhupāda has made all this arrangement very easily because of his encouragement to us. Even devotees who have engagements where they are not likely to make a life member are making life members very easily and are collecting money. And even persons not expected to become members are now becoming members. This is all due to the desire in the hearts of the preachers here in Bombay to serve Śrīla Prabhupāda. And by the grace of Śrīla Prabhupāda, everything is coming very smoothly. This is confirmed in our hearts that without Śrīla Prabhupāda, we cannot do any single work in this movement. Śrīla Prabhupāda gives us encouragement just to kindly agree to stay with us. So yesterday, on Daśarātrī, we collected over 21,000 rupees and made ten members." (Prabhupāda laughs) He says, "We cannot express in English what we are feeling in our hearts, but we are all very encouraged to go out and collect for Śrīla Prabhupāda and expand his life membership program, and we are all very thankful that Śrīla Prabhupāda has been merciful and..." (break)
Trivikrama: By your mercy.
Prabhupāda: No. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavat... Any devotee can become. That letter, mayor's letter also, it carries weight. What is his name?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ganatra? That telegram he sent?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. And the Statesman report, it is very very...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very encouraging. This Haridāsa is transformed. You said that it was due to the mercy of a Vaiṣṇava, Girirāja.
Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.
Prabhupāda: How many copies?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was printed strictly for the devotees, two thousand copies only. It's meant as like a preaching weapon. "5) One who preaches Kṛṣṇa consciousness is dear to Lord Kṛṣṇa and is protected by the Lord. 6) Kṛṣṇa empowers the preacher. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement spreads by the mercy of Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya. 7) Preaching is based on compassion. 8) The preacher should practice tolerance. 9) To be effective in preaching, the preacher must be pure and follow the regulative principles. 10) Conditioned souls benefit from hearing Vedic literature, kṛṣṇa-kathā. 11) The future of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement." Should I see what it says under that?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
| Page Title: | Preacher (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 02 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=123, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 123 |