Prabhupada and Jyotirmayi devi dasi

Expressions researched:
"Jyotirmayi" |"Jyotirmayidevi"

Notes from the compiler: Does not include conversations in which Jyotirmayi is translating others' questions.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: When I was at the university, there were two kinds of strikes. One was by the students and the other one was by the professors.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) And what about the clerks? They also strike sometimes.

Yogeśvara: They took advantage of the two.

Prabhupāda: Everyone dissatisfied—that's a fact. This is a bad civilization.

Yogeśvara: Jyotirmayī is giving a course in Paris at one university, and there we can't always have our classes. We are scheduled every week, but we've only had two or three. The whole rest of the time the university has been closed because the students were striking. Practically the whole year.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: Mr. (indistinct) has made very good progress, because before he was always teaching impersonalist Bhagavad-gītā, and now you see he is wearing a dhotī, he's coming to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, he's coming for Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam classes, and he teaches personalist Bhagavad-gītā. But he still thinks a little bit that maybe above there is something impersonalism. But there is good progress. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). Brahman, Paramātmā... He understands English?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, last stage. First realization impersonal Brahman, then localized Paramātmā, and then Personality of Godhead.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Is there any other meeting?

Jyotirmayī: Yes. It will be later. It will be at six-fifteen, in forty-five minutes. The man coming, will be a psychiatrist.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: ...in France amongst the communist students, the communist Indian students. And I said he is also a literary critic. That means that he is writing a lot of articles in the newspaper and explaining many things in the literary circles in France. He also knows very much about Gandhi philosophy. He has been writing a lot about Gandhi's philosophy. So when he knew that you were with Gandhi, he came very interested.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So we are also communist. As you take the state as the center, we take Kṛṣṇa as the center. Kṛṣṇa is the proprietor. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

yotirmayī: That is exactly what people are saying now. They say "What's the use of being organized and good and sane? Everybody is dishonest now."

Bhagavān: We have to give them a place to go where they can come if they want.

Prabhupāda: Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja gave Kali four places. He could not find out. First of all he gave him four places, that "These four places you can go." But he could not find out such place. So he was embarrassed. So now there is no question of finding out. Everywhere you go, the same four principles. Formerly, it was very difficult to find out a place where these things are going on. Now everywhere you go, these four things are main principles of life. So therefore they cannot very much appreciate these prohibitory principles, that "What is wrong there?"

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: Where is your wife?

Umāpati: She went to the farm, so I guess she just hasn't come back yet.

Prabhupāda: Oh, she went to the farm?

Umāpati: Yes.

Bhagavān: And she is translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhagavān: She is helping to translate the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: And Jyotirmayī?

Bhagavān: She is doing the distribution of Bhagavad-gītās in stores, and she is meeting important people. Whatever articles are written about us, she is answering the articles in the paper. Nice service. This Europe is a very good field for making devotees.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Any new mail?

Harikeśa: Stacks of it. Quite a lot.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Where from?

Harikeśa: Want to go over it now? Shall we go over everything now?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Jyotirmāyī is outside, and Yogeśvara. We can have them come in?

Prabhupāda: Just fix on the light.

Bhagavān: Is now the right time to ask? She has some questions on Gurukula. Is now okay?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: This world is desert, and they have got fertile brain. They call? The fertile land in the deserted land, in the desert, is called oasis. So similarly, these rascals, they have got fertile brain in the world of desert, where there is no happiness. But they have got fertile brain, how to manufacture happiness. And māyā kicks on their face and baffles everything. This is the illusion. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They, the world is desert, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15), but they have got fertile brain, how to become happy. And as soon as they make some arrangement, kicks on his face and he falls down. That's all. What do you think? Is it right? Sometimes you have got fertile brain. (laughter) This fertile brain, he will not accept. He'll be kicked out. Everything will be finished. If you want to be happy, then you have to go back home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is the only way. Otherwise, your fertile brain will... What do you think, Jyotirmāyī? You are intelligent.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: I came to ask you some questions for the Gurukula, because now if I don't ask them today...

Prabhupāda: So Gurukula means, find out that chapter, brahmacārī gurukule.

Hari-śauri: Seven, Two.

Prabhupāda: Vasan dānto guror hitam. The beginning of life is how to become cent percent obedient to guru. That is Gurukula. That training should be given. The whole process is that our life will be successful when we strictly follow guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru means Kṛṣṇa; Kṛṣṇa means guru. Not Māyāvāda, but guru means one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. So guru is directly God, sākṣād-hari. Sākṣād means directly. So sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas **, in every śāstra it is said the guru is one, Kṛṣṇa. So, it is stated in the śāstra and it is accepted by authorities. Not that it is simply stated. Samasta-śāstrair, uktas. You understand little Sanskrit?

Jyotirmāyī: Some verses from Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying that there are mainly three principles to learn: how to be obedient, how to know, read your books and be self-controlled. So that's what I explained to the teachers, that they should do that.

Prabhupāda: Guru says there are four principles to be followed, they should be taught in that way. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication. Guru says that you chant at least sixteen, that should be taught. Risen early, rise early in the morning, that should be taught. So whatever guru says, you have to teach them perfectly, from childhood; then there will be no deviation when they are grown-up.

Jyotirmāyī: We have them chant now down there. When they chant japa, they chant very enthusiastically. So the teacher himself chants...

Prabhupāda: No, no. According to age, according to... But this is the principle. Gurukula means to learn how to become obedient, self-controlled, and act on behalf of guru. This is Gurukula. Not to learn grammar very scholarly, grammarian. No, that is not Gurukula. There are many thousands scholars—who cares for them? Put in the life. That is important. Our movement has drawn the attention of the world on account of life and the knowledge. They are finding the knowledge in the book and they are finding the practical application in the life. That is the important thing. Books there are many, but the books as they are described, they are being followed. That is Gurukula.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: I wanted to know also what should we do once they are sixteen, because you said they should be trained in a Gurukula until they are sixteen. So once they are sixteen...

Prabhupāda: Once Sarasvatī said that "We have no sex with woman." (laughter) So, innocent, she does not know. That is, if they are kept separate, they remain innocent. And they are taught that all women should be addressed as mother. Whatever self-control. And female children should be taught how to become faithful to the husband, and to learn the arts of cooking, arts of painting—that should be their subject matter.

Jyotirmāyī: Painting?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sixty-four arts, Rādhārāṇī did. Then She could control Kṛṣṇa.

Jyotirmāyī: So after they have learned all the academics, reading, writing, all these.

Prabhupāda: Academic is ordinary, ABCD, that's all. Not very much. But these arts. They should learn how to cook nicely.

Jyotirmāyī: And what should the boys be taught from ten to sixteen?

Prabhupāda: The principle is same, that when they grow up they learn the śāstra. The more they read, the more they learn. Then they become preacher, teacher. The grown-up children, those who are fifteen, sixteen, they can teach five-, six-years-old.

Jyotirmāyī: Then they can take responsibility themselves.

Prabhupāda: In this way. Elderly student... That is the way of Indian teaching, that there is one teacher, and how he's managing hundreds? That means there are groups. One who is elderly student, he's taking some beginners: "Write a or A like this." That he can teach. What he has learned, he can teach. Similarly, next group, next group. So in this way, one teacher can manage hundreds of students of different categories. This is organization. Not that everything I have to do.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: I was thinking about that, that because the girls are trained like brahmacārīnis also in the Gurukula, they should be also kept very, very simple, just like the little boys, brahmacārīs.

Prabhupāda: No, our life is simple. We don't want luxury. We don't want luxury, but as we are accustomed in so many ways, as far as possible. But life should be very simple. To increase unnecessary things unnecessarily, that is material life.

Jyotirmāyī: I was thinking in that way, simple clothes, no jewels, just like the boys, simple...

Prabhupāda: Don't say "no." But give a taste for the good, then it will be automatically "no." And if you say "no" then he'll, they will rebel. The four "no's," that is very difficult. Still they are breaking. No illicit sex, they are breaking. But if they develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this will be automatically "no." So don't bring many "no's," but give them positive life. Then it will be automatically "no." And if you say "no," that will be a struggle. This is the psychology. Positive engagement is devotional service. So if they are attracted by devotional service, other things will be automatically "no."

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying that the children should learn these three, geography and these things, and I wanted to know if they should also learn what they call biology, that is how the body is working, what are the bones and blood and...

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Jyotirmāyī: Just to have some general knowledge...

Prabhupāda: Simply waste of time, simply waste of time.

Jyotirmāyī: Even the basic of this?

Prabhupāda: What is the basic? What you will know by that? Biology is going on, whether you study or not study. You are eating, it is transforming into blood, everyone knows. And how he's transforming into blood? What is the use?

Jyotirmāyī: You were saying they should learn geography and history, just for general knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That is because you have to go from America to India. You must know. (laughter) You have to calculate two plus two equal to four, a little mathematics. But this biology and this "logy," they are useless. There is no necessity. What you'll gain by understanding biology? Even one who knows biology, the medical man, he gives a tablet, "Perhaps it may help you." "Perhaps." He's not sure. So what is the use?

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: So because we're in the country, I was taking the children in the land here and teaching them how to recognize the different plants. Is that useful, or should I not do that?

Prabhupāda: Different plants?

Jyotirmāyī: Plants, yes, here we have so many different plants growing, some medical plants, some that can be eaten. Is there any use?

Prabhupāda: No. Different plants, that is botanical study, that has also no utilization. But you can teach them, "Just see, this plant is coming from earth. The earth is the mother of this plant." These things you can convince them. Is it not a fact? The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and the animal eating grass. Then the animal is coming. The man is eating food grains, then man is coming. So originally the earth is the mother, feeding everyone. Is there any denial? What do you think? So earth is the mother of all living entities, convince them.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: I also thought of a way to help the children remember the Kṛṣṇa book stories easier. It was... You started that long time ago with Madhupuri, you asked her to make the Kṛṣṇa book into a poem. That was a long time ago in New York, then she didn't do it...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa book is not difficult to be understood by...

Jyotirmāyī: I was thinking if we make into poem and put music and they sing it, then they can remember...

Prabhupāda: That you can do, to make it understandable easily. It is already easy. If you want to make more easy, then do that.

Jyotirmāyī: Okay. You also allowed... You said that some parents can keep their children with them and teach themselves.

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: Because you were saying that the parents can keep their children and teach them themselves, like Arundhatī is teaching Aniruddha. So does it mean that the parents can...

Prabhupāda: He complained that "My boy is not being properly..." So I said that "You teach your son."

Jyotirmāyī: She can keep him and teach him all the time? Until he's older and so on?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. That is the duty of the father and mother. Along with that, he can teach others also. These things are to be organized. But some way or other, our students should be given education and spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Individually, collectively, somehow or other. The principle is laid down there, brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror-hitam. That's the beginning. Everything is there, we have to simply follow it. We haven't got to manufacture anything. That is a waste of time. Whatever is there, you follow. Is that all right?

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch... In this way, they should be always engaged. Then they'll be trained up. Simple thing. We don't want to train them as big grammarians. No. That is not wanted. That anyone, if he has got some inclination, he can do it personally. There is no harm. General training is that he must be a devotee, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That should be introduced. Otherwise, the gurukula will be... Otherwise Jyotirmayī was suggesting the biology. What they'll do with biology? Don't introduce unnecessary nonsense things. Simple life. Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply let them be convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, it is our duty to serve Him, that's all.

1970 Correspondence

Letter to Jyotirmayi -- Los Angeles 8 February, 1970:

I am in due receipt of your kind letter dated 28 January, 1970 along with your beads. I am very happy to accept you as my disciple as you are eager to love Krishna. I am returning your beads herewith duly chanted on by me and your initiated name is Jyotirmayi. Jyotirmayi is the effulgent energy of Krishna.

As my initiated disciple you must strictly observe the four restrictions; namely no taking of intoxicants; no eating of meat, fish, or eggs; no illicit sex life; and no gambling. Follow the prescribed regulations for devotional service and chant daily sixteen rounds without fail. avoiding the ten offenses against the Holy Name. Please take instruction in Krishna Consciousness from Janai, Malati, and Yamuna and the other advanced devotees there.

I am glad to learn that you are eager to become a sincere devotee of Lord Krishna. The process is very simple—chant Hare Krishna mantra always. become fully engaged in Krishna activities and be happy.

Letter to Yamuna, Mandakini, Ilavati, Jyotirmayi, Dhananjaya, Digvijaya, Jotilla, Prithadevi, Tamala Krsna -- Los Angeles 8 February, 1970:

Please accept my blessings: I am so much obliged for your loving presentation of sweets, balusai, handkerchief, painting, flower, simply wonderful, sacred thread, dhupa, and gopicandana, and I have immediately tasted all the preparations so nice and distributed them to the devotees of the Temple. I have offered the handkerchief and dhupa to Radha Krishna, and placed the picture on the wall. Please organize this Sankirtana Movement under the leadership of Tamala, Mukunda, Syamasundara., and Gurudasa and be happy.

Letter to Tamala Krsna -- Los Angeles 4 March, 1970:

Marriage or no marriage, that is not our problem. If we find it suitable that by marrying one will be able to serve better, than by not marrying, then one must marry—that is our principle. So as you are thinking that accepting Jyotirmayi as your wife you will be happy and your duties in Krsna consciousness will be enthused, then I have got all sanction, and you do it.

Letter to Gurudasa -- Los Angeles 6 May, 1970:

I am so glad to learn that things are going on nicely in our London Temple. The most important point in this letter is second time initiation of some of the devotees, specifically Jaya Hari Das Brahmacari, Jyotirmayidevi Dasi, and Mandakinidevi Dasi. So I am sending herewith the sanctified Gayatri Mantra Tape and papers for holding the ceremony, as well as a sacred thread and special instructions for the devotees with the Gayatri Mantra.

Letter to Yogesvara, Gurudasa, Digvijaya, Lesley, Yvonne, Jyotirmayi, Paul, Prithadevi, Purnananda, Tom, Lena, Dhananjaya, Inga, Mandakini, Tirthapada, Trivikrama, Yamuna, Jaya Hari -- Los Angeles 21 May, 1970:

Please accept my blessings. I thank you all very much for your Aksoy Treetiya card. This is the new years day of the appearance of Satya Yuga. Satya Yuga means the age when people did not know anything except the Absolute Truth or the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

In Srimad-Bhagavatam we begin our reading by offering of obeisances to the Supreme Truth Satyam Param Dhimahi (SB 1.1.1), so those who are strictly on the Bhagavat line or in Krsna consciousness actually they are living in Satya Yuga age.

Our London Temple is replica of Vaikuntha, so live there peacefully, chant the regular beads, and follow the regulative principles.

I am so much thankful to you for your respective presentations—they are as follows: one golden cup, mysore sandal soap, some scent in snuff box, one picture of London Radha-Krsna Deities and one xeroxed interview report. So I shall be glad to know what is the contents and its formula in the box, then I can use it as snuff.

I beg to thank you once again for these gifts. Hope this will meet you all in very good health in Krsna Consciousness.

Your ever well-wisher,

A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

P.S. Where is Mukunda & Janaki please inform.

1971 Correspondence

Letter to Yogesvara -- Bombay 4 March, 1971:

So far as French translation work, I am very glad to note how nicely you are working, along with your wife Jyotirmayi and also Guy Prabhu. Continue in this way and Krishna will be pleased upon you and bless you with the intelligence to increase your service more and more. When you have printed the three new French BTGs, as well as Easy Journey and Sri Isopanisad, French editions, you may send copies of them here to me for propaganda purposes.

Letter to ISKCON Hamburg, Mandali Bhadra, Gunnar, Rolf, Andre, Harrison, Phillip, Haripriya, Antonio, Maria, Philip, Herbert, Lilasakti, Jyotirmayi, others -- London 15 August, 1971:

Please accept my blessings. I beg to thank you very much for your kind feelings of appreciation of my humble service unto you. You are all helping me in pushing forward this mission of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, coming down by disciplic succession to my Guru Maharaja. So whatever you have spoken, it is simply due to them. I am simply the via media to receive them, on behalf of my Guru Maharaja, His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja Prabhupada.

1972 Correspondence

Letter to Jyotirmayi -- Los Angeles 28 May, 1972:

I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated May 22nd, 1972. I am very glad to hear that you are assisting your good husband in the translating of our French literatures. After discussing the matter thoroughly, it will be the best plan if our foreign literatures such as French language literatures will be translated, composed, layed out and printed locally. This printing of foreign books so far from their country of distribution has not proved to be very practical. Harivilasa is complaining that the French people do not so much like our "Back to Godhead" as it is not suitable to the French taste. So I have appointed Bhagavan dasa adhikari to be the GBC representative for France zone and Mediterranean zone, so he shall be going there sometime this summer for taking charge of things, and I hope that you and your good husband will also go there to Paris and take charge of this French literature. If you cooperate with our French devotees in producing our French literatures very profusely, that will be the best plan. So far our question is concerned there are two possibilities. You may say that Krishna is God the Supreme Personality and that He is God the Supreme Person.