Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmaṇas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brāhmaṇas and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ (CC Adi 17.164). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life.
Powerful (Conversations 1967 - 1974)
Expressions researched:
"powerful"
|"powerfully"
|"powerfulness"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Expansion is direct, and incarnation is indirect. When expansion of expansion is accepted, that is called kalā, incarnation, avatāra, kalā. So Advaita is not direct. The example is given in Brahma-saṁhitā. Just like you get one candle kindled from the first candle, another from the second, another from the third. So similarly, either expansion or incarnation, they are all candles. The original candle is Kṛṣṇa. It is not that expansion of expansion is less powerful. The candle power is the same either origin or expansion or expansion of the expansion. It is not that Nityānanda is less powerful than Caitanya, or Advaita is less powerful than... No. Any incarnation or expansion has the same potency, Viṣṇu-tattva. The manifestation of potency is different. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and Lord Rāma is also the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But one is original. Kṛṣṇa is original, and Rāma is an expansion. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa exhibited the qualities of God fully. Rāma exhibited qualities of God partially. Take for example, Rāma was manifesting Himself as an ideal king. He was not manifesting Himself as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: I shall narrate next meeting. The yogis, everyone, yogis... Yoga practice is, therefore... It is more or less material activity. Because when they are powerful to show some miracles and people become captivated, "Oh, he is performing such miracle thing." In Benares in India there was a yogi. His business was anyone who will go there, he immediately produced two or four rasagullās and offer him. And many hundreds and thousands of educated men became his disciple simply for the matter, rasagullā, which is only four annas worth. So people want to see this jugglery. And those who want following some or some material achievement, they want to show... Actually it is a fact. Suppose if I could manufacture rasagullās by some mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, oh, thousands of people will come immediately. You see? People want to see me, and those persons who want to have a cheap following, they want to show such jugglery.
Prabhupāda: "The first-class yogi is he who is always..." He never says that first-class yogi is he who can show this jugglery. No. That is not recommended. Actually, and the yoga practice begins, samādhi. Real yoga practice is, after controlling the senses, the next stage is samādhi, concentrate the mind, focus the mind on Viṣṇu always. Always thinking of Viṣṇu, always seeing Viṣṇu within himself. That is yoga practice. But by such practice, automatically one gains such powerful things, and when one gains such powerful powers, they want to exhibit to get following for material achievements. But that is not the purpose of yoga. Yoga means to realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead and ultimately reach in His kingdom. That is the real purpose of yoga.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) And a physician which says, "Oh, you cannot do this, you cannot do this, you cannot eat this," it is a botheration. So they want something. That is a fact. But at the same time, they want it very cheap. Therefore the cheaters come and cheat them. They take the opportunity. "These people want to be cheated. Oh let us take the advantage." You see. Otherwise, they are advising that "You are God, everyone is God. You just realize yourself, you have forgotten. You take this mantra, and you become God, and you become powerful. Whatever you like, you can control. And there is no control of senses. You can drink, you can have unrestricted sex life and whatever you like." People like this. "Oh, simply by fifteen minutes meditation, I shall become God, and I have to pay only thirty-five dollars." So many millions of people will be ready, "Oh, let me." I mean, thirty-five dollars in your country is not... But that much, thirty-five multiplied by million, it becomes thirty-five million dollars. (laughs) And we are crying here because we cannot bluff. We say that if you actually want, you have to follow these restrictions. We cannot allow you that the commandment is "You shall not kill," and I shall say, "Yes, you can kill. The animal has no feeling. The animal has no soul." We cannot bluff in this way. You see.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So far I know. So similarly, in Vaikuṇṭha the inhabitants, they got svarūpa. Their form is exactly like Viṣṇu. There is no difference. When the Viṣṇudūta came to take Ajamila from the hands of Yamadūta. They were four-handed with śankha-cakra-gadā-padma as Viṣṇu, the lotus flower, this disc, and the club, and the conchshell. There is no difference in the body. Simply by that special mark, some special hair on the chest and there is Bhṛgu, I mean to say, sole, sole, a mark of the feet of Bhṛgu Muni. So by some special marks one can recognize He is Viṣṇu. Otherwise, from bodily features and from dress and from ornaments, there is no distinction between Viṣṇu and His devotees in Vaikuṇṭha. They're all four-handed. Svarūpa sāyujya sālokya sārṣṭi. They have got equal, I mean to say, situation of prosperity, wealthy, equally, almost equally powerful. So practically there is no difference between Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu-bhakta. In Kṛṣṇaloka also. Only Kṛṣṇa is little blackish. Otherwise there is no... In the Kṛṣṇaloka they are two-handed, and Viṣṇuloka they are four-handed. All the Vaikuṇṭhas, the residents, they are four-handed. You want four-hand or two-hand? (laughter) Mr. Murti? What do you want? Four hands?
Yoko Ono: If Hare Kṛṣṇa is such a strong, powerful mantra, is there any reason to chant anything else? For instance, you talked about songs and many different mantras. Is there any point in chanting other songs or mantra?
Prabhupāda: No, no. These mantras are also... But Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is specially recommended for this age. And the Vedic mantras, they are also chanted, I told you, with musical, tampura, and they sit down and chant. Nārada Muni, he's chanting always. So chanting through musical instruments, mantras, it is not new introduction. It is from time immemorial. And Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, especially in this age, that is recommended in many Vedic literature, Brahmanda Purāṇa, Kali-santaraṇa Upaniṣad, Agni Purāṇa, like that. And apart from the statement in the Vedic literature, Lord Caitanya Himself, He preached this mantra. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... And people, public, followed Him. Yes. (break) So anything... Just like a scientist. When he discovers something, it becomes a public property. People may take advantage of it. Similarly, if mantra has got potency, all people should take advantage of it. Why it should be secret?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I found Tanberg better than Sony.
Pratyatoṣa: The very expensive Sonys are good. The less expensive Sonys aren't very good because the motors aren't powerful enough. But like that real expensive Sony has three motors, and it's got..., it's all electronically controlled with solenoids, so that there's very few moving parts, and I think it would be a really good machine.
Devotee (4): What is this?
Pratyatoṣa: That's different from this. That's if you aren't getting this educational package, then you've got to pay all these rates. Some of these rates apply anyway.
Devotee (4): All this rate business, you know about it. I just want to look at the program. What is this?
Pratyatoṣa: That's a Dolby system for recording with less noise. That's for tape recorders.
Devotee (4): Why don't you check that? I'll just keep this (indistinct). What's this?
Pratyatoṣa: That's for the computer system. That's courses that are available over the computer.
Devotee (4): Over the computer?
Pratyatoṣa: Yeah, the computer teaches.
Devotee (4): Oh, yeah. Just like these computers, you can learn the language.
Pratyatoṣa: This is like a mechanical tutor.
Devotee (4): But you can even learn this Edit language over the machine, right?
Prabhupāda: Machine teach language?
Prabhupāda: As soon as you are educated that God is one, Father is one, we are all sons, then the whole solution is made.
Journalist (1): Because there's no need for any one person to have any more than anybody else.
Prabhupāda: No. God has given everything. God has given everything, but if one party becoming demonically powerful, he occupies everything, the others suffer.
Journalist (1): Yes. But the difficulty is, and that's a very optimistic view of human nature.
Prabhupāda: That is civilization.
Journalist (1): But, no...
Prabhupāda: That is not optimist, that is proper civilization.
Journalist (1): Some people might say, who weren't perhaps as convinced as you...
Prabhupāda: Some people means the demons. We are creating demons. By our education, we are creating demons. That demons, they are being frustrated; they are now becoming hippies. Yes. That is the position. Because everyone wants to enjoy. So as soon as we cannot enjoy, there is some reaction. You see?
Prabhupāda: The materialistic person, they have only one experience: this cosmic manifestation. Beyond this they have no other vision. Their senses are imperfect. Just like the astronomers, they have got big, big telescope, many other instruments. They want to see through the eyes how many stars are there, how the planets are moving, and whatever imperfect knowledge they receive, by that little knowledge they advertise themselves as great scientists. But they do not calculate that "We are trying to see the stars and planets with powerful binoculars. That means our eyes are imperfect." And what is the guarantee that the instruments which they're using, they are also perfect? Because that machine, that binocular, is also made by a person who is imperfect. So what is the guarantee that by seeing through binocular or microscope, the conclusion arrived, it is perfect? What is your answer? Your eyes are imperfect, that's a fact. Otherwise, why you are using binocular, microscope? Eyes are imperfect. Originally your eyes are imperfect. Now, eyes or other senses, it doesn't matter. Sense is sense. So you are manufacturing a machine, some instrument, by the same imperfect senses, then what is the guarantee that this machine, this binocular, if you see through the binocular, the knowledge is perfect? What is your answer?
Prabhupāda: So those who are in devotional service, they have got two things: they can see what is māyā and what is Kṛṣṇa. That is perfect life. Then he can understand how this world is going on, how Kṛṣṇa is working. Everything becomes revealed. Bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Otherwise, what qualification we have got in comparison, their M.A., Ph.D., D.S.D. and so on, so on? Still they cannot touch the right point. Just like Dr. Stahl in Berkeley University. He talked with me, and at last he became silent. So we can challenge like that. Just like we are discussing so many philosophies. So bhakti-yoga is so nice. So you execute bhakti-yoga very nicely, and then you become the topmost learned man in the world. This is a fact.
Prabhupāda: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Executed properly, very simple method. Then you become the most learned man in the world. Even without going through the books, they will be revealed. Kṛṣṇa will reveal. Kṛṣṇa is śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). As you become purified by hearing the glories of the Lord, Kṛṣṇa, puṇya-śra, hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi, the dirty things which push obstacles and impure understanding, they are removed. They're washed up. Washed up. Just like if your room is dirty, there..., there is possibility... Therefore I ask you, keep cleansed, your bathing, your clothes, your room. Otherwise you'll suffer hepatitis or jaundice, this, that. You'll suffer, because you are not clean. If you clear, you remain cleansed, then there will be no disease.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In this way, when he became very much powerful, he began to neglect the orders of the great sages, brāhmaṇas, and respectable gentlemen. He became very much upstart.
- evaṁ madāndha utsikto
- niraṅkuśa iva dvipaḥ
- paryaṭan ratham āsthāya
- kampayann iva rodasī
- (SB 4.14.5)
So he became so strong that when he was traveling in the state, everyone was trembling. So very strong king. In this way, when he became too much powerful, then he began to preach atheism. That is the way. The rākṣasī, the demonic way is there. If a demon becomes powerful—just like nowadays it is going on—somehow or other if somebody becomes powerful, he doesn't care for the śāstric injunction or religion or God. They don't care for it. Just like there are many instances, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, like that. So he also became like that.
Prabhupāda: Just like if a man is very beautiful, we call "beautiful." If a man is very intelligent, we call him "wise." So name is given according to the quality. Because God is all-attractive, therefore the only name Kṛṣṇa can be applied to Him. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive.
Bob: What about a name meaning "all-powerful"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Attractive means... Unless you are powerful, how you can be attractive? (laughter)
Acyutānanda: It includes everything.
Prabhupāda: Includes everything. He must be very beautiful, He must be very wise, He must be very powerful, He must be very famous...
Bob: Is Kṛṣṇa attractive to rascals?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was the greatest rascal also.
Bob: How is this?
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Because he was teasing always the gopīs.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bob: ...may find God unattractive. He may not find the God attractive, because God gives him guilt.
Prabhupāda: No, not the God. Because he wants to be powerful, his attraction is to become powerful. A man wants to become powerful, or rich. Is that not? But nobody is richer than Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Kṛṣṇa is attractive to him.
Bob: So if a rich, if a person who wants to become rich prays to Kṛṣṇa, will he become rich?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Bob: He can become rich through this means.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is all-powerful. If you pray to Kṛṣṇa to become rich, Kṛṣṇa will make you rich.
Bob: But even if you do not live, even if you live an evil life you will still become rich?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bob: If somebody lives an evil life but prays to become rich, they may still become rich?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Prays to Kṛṣṇa, that is not evil.
Bob: All right, I... Oh, yeah.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) Somehow or other, he prays to Kṛṣṇa, so you cannot say that He's evil.
Bob: It is so.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot say that sunshine is not sun. But without sun, where is the sunshine? So you cannot say sunshine is not sun. But at the same time it is not sun. It is sun and not sun, both. That is our philosophy. Acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable. In the material science you cannot conceive that a thing simultaneously positive and negative. That you cannot think. That is inconceivable energy. And because everything is Kṛṣṇa's energy, Kṛṣṇa can manifest Himself from any energy, and act. Therefore, when we worship Kṛṣṇa made of something of earth, water, or something like that, that is Kṛṣṇa, that is not Kṛṣṇ... You cannot say it is not Kṛṣṇa. When you worship this metal form of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. Because metal is energy of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is non-different from Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can present Himself fully in His energy. So this Deity worship is not heathenism. It is actually worshiping God, provided you know the process.
Prabhupāda: No, earth... Earth has no separate existence without Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "It's my energy." You cannot separate the energy and the energetic. It is not possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. But fire is different from the heat. And heat is different from the fire. You are taking heat, that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of expanding heat, it keeps its identity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa by His different energies creating everything, He remains Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think, "If Kṛṣṇa is everything, then Kṛṣṇa's separate identity is not there." That is material thinking. Just like drinking this milk, so little, little, when I finish, there is no more milk. It has gone to my belly. Kṛṣṇa is not like that. Because He's omnipotent, we are utilizing His energy continually, but still He's there, present. Just like a man begetting children unlimitedly, but the man is there. Crude example. But not that because he has produced hundreds of children, therefore he is finished. So similarly, God or Kṛṣṇa, in spite of His unlimited number of children, He's there. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is never finished. (break) ...so powerful, therefore He is attractive. This is one side of the display of Kṛṣṇa's energies. Similarly, He has got unlimited energies. This study of Kṛṣṇa's energy is only one side, one portion only. So in this way if you go on studying Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a bogus thing, that "maybe," "perhaps not." Absolutely. It is.
Śyāmasundara: ...you said that sometimes you feel pain, some sickness, due to the sinful activities of your devotees. Is that... Couldn't sometimes disease be that, due to that? Caused by that?
Prabhupāda: You see, Kṛṣṇa says that ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). So Kṛṣṇa's so powerful that He can immediately take up all the sins of others and immediately make it gone. But when a living entity plays the part on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, he also takes the responsibility of these sinful activities of his devotee. So to become a guru is not an easy task. You see? He has to take all the poisons and absorb. So sometimes, because he's not Kṛṣṇa, so sometimes there is some trouble. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu forbidden that "Don't make many śiṣyas, many disciples." But for preaching work we have to accept many disciples, for expanding preaching. Never mind we suffer. But that's a fact. The spiritual master has to take the responsibility of all the sinful activities of his disciples. So to make many disciple is a risky job unless he's able to assimilate all the sins. (pause) (break)... patitānāṁ pāvanebhyo. He takes responsibility for all the fallen souls. That is... That idea is in Bible. Just like Jesus Christ take all the sinful reaction of all people and sacrificed his life. That is the responsibility of spiritual master. Because he's Kṛṣṇa's representative. So Kṛṣṇa takes all responsibility. Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa, apāpa-viddham. He cannot be attacked by any sinful reaction. But a living entity may be subjected sometimes, because he's small. Big fire, small fire. On a small fire if you put some big things, (chuckling) then the fire itself may be extinguished. In the big fire, whatever you put, that's all right. Finished. The big fire can consume anything.
Prabhupāda: But in our India... Of course, Lord Buddha was kṣatriya. The kṣatriyas were allowed to eat meat by hunting.
Dai Nippon representative: Hunting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because king—the kṣatriya means royal order-they, sometimes they had to kill somebody. If somebody is criminal, "Cut off his head." So in order to become powerful in cutting head, so they had to practice hunting. Yes. This hunting was allowed to the kṣatriyas. There are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Four divisions means intelligent class, administrative class, mercantile class, and laborer class. So these kṣatriyas, they are royal order, giving protection to the citizens. And the brāhmaṇas giving good advice to the royal order. And the mercantile class, they work under the regulation of the royal order. And the worker class, they give simply service. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Year and a half ago, Mr. Tajima, he lose his son, twenty-eight years old.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I heard. In some accident?
Dai Nippon representative: By traffic accident.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But this human form of life is better than demigods' life because demigods, they are materially very opulent. Just like when the Americans came in India, they thought, "Demigods." Is it not?
Martin: The Indians thought. Hm.
Prabhupāda: Because they're better looking, good looking, intelligent, powerful. Similarly, just like this controller or director of this rain department is Indra. This thundering, it is under his direction this thundering is going on. He throws the thunderbolts and cracks the mountain, and then we get chunks. That is his business. As in government there are different departments, similarly, God has got different departments, and the in-charge of that department is demigod. Creation, that's Brahma; sustenance or maintenance, Himself, Viṣṇu; and dissolution, Lord Siva.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the result of activity.
Prabhupāda: So far designation is concerned, the spiritual master authorizes every one of his disciple. But it is up to the disciple to carry out the order, able to carry out or not. It is not that spiritual master is partial, he designates one and rejects other. He may do that. If the other is not qualified, he can do that. But actually his intention is not like that. He wants that each and every one of his disciple become as powerful as he is or more than that. That is his desire. Just like father wants every son to be as qualified or more qualified than the father. But it is up to the student or to the son to raise himself to that standard.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly. Try to understand it and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self, and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely, no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra... You can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remain with Kṛṣṇa, you are not living within this material world. You are living in the spiritual world. So, especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bhāratavarṣa, India," janma sārthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and preach it." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. So if you take it you'll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy.
Guest (2): But if we look at the world as it is today we'll find that people who are the most powerful in this world are those who...
Prabhupāda: Who is powerful? First of all let us see who is powerful.
Guest (2): Like United States, like Soviet Union. There is no other power in this world who can...
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by powerful? Then President Nixon is not afraid of anything, do you think?
Guest (2): He personally may not, may be afraid of something, but as a country, yes, it's very powerful. The whole world is afraid of them.
Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world. Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.
Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.
Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.
Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.
Guest (2): I mean...
Prabhupāda: You mean, but that is not the fact.
Guest (2): It's a fact, I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.
Prabhupāda: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?
Guest (2): Yes, Hitler is gone, but then we have that U.S., you see. If tomorrow U.S. goes, maybe there will be Soviet Union.
Prabhupāda: So that means everyone will come into power for some days; then it will be finished. That's all.
Prabhupāda: So that means everyone will come into power for some days; then it will be finished. That's all.
Guest (2): Yeah, but all the people who are getting into the power are people who are having these four vices, you know, and...
Prabhupāda: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Rāvaṇa became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sītā. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.
Guest (2): Yes but people say that...
Prabhupāda: People say, that is other... You see the fact. Nobody is powerful; nobody can exist here. For the temporary, say for some years, you may be so-called powerful but it is not powerful. We are concerned with eternal life. We are not interested in the so-called power for a few days. That is not our aim.
Guest (2): Yes, but if we say that everything is destined, like the moment your body is manufactured and...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand—Kṛṣṇa book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase. So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are... There is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again. It is a big problem. So how... We are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying. So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said. The same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply... Just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.
Prabhupāda: Then you are part of human society. Then why you are trying to improve your position?
Devotee: Jaya.
Prabhupāda: Why you are trying?
Guest (2): To be more powerful.
Prabhupāda: Just see. You do not know. You have forgotten the power, part of Kṛṣṇa. What is the function of part of Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking you are part of this material world. That is the difficulty.
Guest (2): Yes, but that is what Kṛṣṇa gave me, though.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... You have taken it.
Guest (2): The moment my body is manufactured...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says that.
Guest (2): Yes, that is provided He gives me that...
Prabhupāda: Not "provided." There is no "provided." Kṛṣṇa says this. This is Kṛṣṇa's order, that "You give up all nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." That is your business. But you are thinking, "No, I am part of this world. I must work in this world. I must have this. I must have that." That is your thinking. Kṛṣṇa's order is, "Simply surrender unto Me." That's all. But you are thinking, "How can I surrender?" And that is your business. If you do not surrender, then you go. See to your own business. So whatever you are creating, you are creating by yourself. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So you are creating your fortune and misfortune, both. Kṛṣṇa is giving you facilities. "All right, you want this? All right, take this."
Prabhupāda: But to read the Bible, but violate the Bible injunction, injunction. How they can kill if they are following the Bible?
Bob Cohen: I asked one. They said..., he said he claimed that Jesus was also eating meat in the Bible. But I don't know.
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. He, he may eat anything. He's powerful. But he has ordered, "Thou shalt not kill." You must stop killing. He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. You cannot compare with Jesus Christ. You cannot imitate Jesus Christ. You shall have to abide by his order. That is your position. Then you are guided by Jesus Christ. That is actually obedience. You cannot imitate. That is explained in Bhāgavata, that those who are īśvara, those who are empowered, they will do anything, but we cannot imitate. We have to abide by his order. "What he says to me, that I will do." You cannot imitate. If you say that "Jesus Christ ate meat," admitting that, in what condition he ate meat, if you do not know, then Jesus Christ is contradicting his statement. He's eating himself meat, and he's advising others not to kill. Do you think Jesus Christ is contradicting?
Bob Cohen: No.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you preach, you can say all these things with so-called Christians. So what you are doing for God? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). Just like sun. The sun is absorbing urine. Can you drink urine? If you want to imitate sun, "Oh, here is sun absorbing urine. Let me drink urine," can you? Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya. He is powerful. He can do everything. Therefore we cannot imitate Him. We have to simply abide by His order. That is real Christian. You cannot imitate powerful man. That is wrong. Just like in our Vedic literature there was a poison ocean. So what.... People became puzzled what to do with this—this demigod. Then Lord Śiva said, "All right. I'll drink it." So he drank the whole poison ocean and kept it in his throat, nīlakaṇṭha. Now, you drink poison? Not the ocean. You drink one cup. So how you can imitate Lord Śiva? Lord Śiva never advised that we drink poison. So you have to abide by the advice, not by imitating, "Oh, Lord Śiva..." Just like this LSD and marijuana, they say sometimes, "Lord Śiva used to smoke gāñjā." They say like that. But Lord Śiva drank the whole poison ocean. Can you do that? Lord Śiva's instruction should be taken. He says, "The best worship is to worship Viṣṇu," viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. When Śiva was asked by Pārvatī that "What method of worship is first-class?" Then he said, "The first-class worship is worshiping Lord Viṣṇu." Viṣṇu ārādhanaṁ param. Tasmāt parataraṁ devi tadīyānām ārādhanam. He said the Viṣṇu worship is the best. There are many demigods, but he recommended, "Viṣṇu worship is the best." And the better than Viṣṇu worship is to worship Vaiṣṇava. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Tadīyā means His servant, or one who is, or what is in relationship with Him. Just like we are worshiping this plant, Tulasī. We are not worshiping all plants, but because this Tulasī has very intimate connection with Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, therefore we are worshiping. Tadīyānām ārādhanam. Similarly, anything who is intimately related with Kṛṣṇa, worship of that thing is better than worship of Viṣṇu, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not lot of. Some books he has written. So our request is to the Indians especially that we have got something to give to the world. Simply don't beg. Give something. Then you will be honored. You cannot compete with them by technology, by learning here. That is not possible. If you can give them something, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guest (2): How far is saṁskāra powerful like...?
Prabhupāda: Well, saṁskāra you can change in a second. Saṁskāra may be powerful. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa assures you, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. He will give you protection. Saṁskāra means you did some sinful activities and you are suffering. But He gives you protection. Sarva-pāpebhyo. Then what is the meaning of saṁskāra? You can change your saṁskāra immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Why you are so much concerned with saṁskāra? He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66), ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa... The saṁskāra as effects of sinful activities, that is troublesome. So He gives you protection. Mā śucaḥ, "Don't worry." Why don't you take this? You don't want to change your saṁskāra, and who can help you? That is a different thing. You don't want to change. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is ready to give you all help. How their saṁskāra is changed? From the very beginning of their life they are addicted to these principles: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, gambling. How they have changed? They don't touch it. How it has become possible?
Prabhupāda: Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, the same. Kṛṣṇa means Viṣṇu-tattva. So Viṣṇu-tattva has many forms. So any Viṣṇu form will do.
- rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan
- nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
- kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.39)
Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. He has got different forms, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many other forms, Govinda, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even. Kṛṣṇa was at that time a boy. But they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. Kṛṣṇa was their everything. And therefore their position is the topmost. So somehow or other, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. Otherwise not. So we do it knowingly or unknowingly; the effect is the same. Fire you touch knowingly or unknowingly; it will act. It is not that if a child touches fire without knowing, knowledge, it is not that fire will not burn. And similarly... That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. Some way or other, come to Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa-kāmāt. Kṛṣṇa was very beautiful, so they wanted to associate with Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt, Kaṁsa and Śiśupāla, they were afraid of Kṛṣṇa, but still, they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt. Krodhāt. Śiśupāla, krodhāt. He was very much envious of Kṛṣṇa. Pūtanā-rākṣasī, she wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. So if kamāt-krodhād-bhayāt coming to Kṛṣṇa, they get perfection, what to speak of loving Kṛṣṇa? What is their position? So some way or other, you come to Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇa niveśayet. Somehow or other, just attach your mind to Kṛṣṇa; your life is perfect. And what is the objection? Kṛṣṇa is most beautiful, Kṛṣṇa is most opulent, Kṛṣṇa is more powerful, Kṛṣṇa giving you assurance, "I give you protection," and still, if you don't take to Kṛṣṇa it is misfortune, simply misfortune. Unfortunate. So you remain. If you want to remain unfortunate, who can help you? So instead of arguing, you just surrender to Kṛṣṇa and make your life successful. That's it. That is wanted. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma... Now, these foreigners, they are practiced, always chanting Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do that? Why? Let me know why. You are all young boys; they are also young. They have got more facilities for sense enjoyment than yours. Why don't you take to it? So it is better late than never. Take to it. Take interest in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You are all Indians. Make your life successful. Help others and be helped. (aside:) What is this? (Hindi—discussing prasāda to be served) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Tūrṇaṁ yateta. (Hindi) Life is very short. Any moment it can be finished. Tūrṇaṁ yateta na pated anu-mṛtyu yāvat. Before the next death comes... You give me in a plate.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda;: That is going on everywhere. These, our Indian people, they're not interested in God. They're interested in (Hindi), some blessing, because they can make improvement in their material position.
Devotee (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So therefore these rascals come, they give them (Hindi or sounds like "asirvada", maybe referring to Sai Baba), I give them, "I am so powerful, I give you (Hindi)," and they give them money, "Oh, here is a sādhu." They'll get (Hindi) very cheaply, and make money. Instead of two lakhs, I'll make ten lakhs, by the (Hindi). And he's Sai Baba, like rogues, they come to show them some magic, that "I have got some power, I can do anything I like, and if you become my devotee, you will improve." All these yogis, everything, they do like that. Mahesh Yogi also: "Take my mantra. Within six months you become perfect man and whatever you like, you can do."
Devotee (3): Ha ha. No restrictions.
Prabhupāda: No. There is business only. Why there should be restrictions? Everyone does so, beginning from Vivekananda, Aurobindo, everyone. Aurobindo also used to say that you haven't got to do anything, you simply think of me, just like Kṛṣṇa says: "Simply think of Me."
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but why don't you do that in case of your relationship to the state. Suppose the state says: "You must drive to the right." Why don't you drive on the left? Why do you obey the state laws? What does he say? You do whatever you like.
Brahmānanda: That means there's someone more powerful than they are.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Brahmānanda: They have to obey.
Prabhupāda: Immediately he'll be kicked on his face. "You rascal, why you driving. Kick on your..."(laughter) and what he'll say at that time? Can he say that: "Yes, it is my law. I'll do this." Can he say like this?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He cannot say like this.
Prabhupāda: Then, then what is this? It is insanity. What you cannot do, if you say: "I can do it," Then it is insanity.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They just argue without any background.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, energy. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala grahāṇām. Sun is working under the order of... Just like if you don't see the managing director or the proprietor of a firm, the immediate boss who is controlling you, you have to obey. In the office or in the factory. Similarly, you cannot see directly God, but God's agent is working. Why don't you obey? God's agent is working? How it is working? Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ, exactly in time by the order of Kṛṣṇa, rising exactly in the time, without any deviation even by 1/10,000th part of a second, astrological calculation. Is it not? So how it is working? Under whose order it is working? Śāstra says, "By the order of Kṛṣṇa." Yasya ājñayā. "Under whose order he is working," govindam ādi-puruṣam, "I worship that Govinda." The śāstra is giving you information, that he is working under, he must be working under... Otherwise why it is so accurate, so punctual, unless there is some direction? Unless there is order of God, why this big ocean is so obedient, it is not coming here? Why don't you study like this? Where is the difficulty? There must be some direction that "You Pacific Ocean, you are so big, that's all right, but you cannot come here. Remain up to this." Otherwise why you are feeling so safety although in the front of a big ocean. If the ocean likes, within a second, he can finish us immediately. But she will not do, because there is order. Similarly sun. Sun is also moving under the order. You have to study like that. If you do not see God, see how God's order is being carried out. Then you will understand. Just like we do not see President Nixon. But you know there is direction, and the government is going is going on under his direction. That we can know. This is seeing of God to see how things are going on under His order. That is seeing of God. Just like from long distant place like this hills, we are seeing, but at the same time not seeing distinctly. You are seeing those, but you do not see the detail. Similarly you are seeing God by these things, but because you are not so powerful, you are not seeing Him in detail. But you are seeing God. You cannot say that "I don't see God." How can you say? These are the directions. You are seeing that things are going on under direction.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he doesn't have to practice yogic power.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because He is most perfect, He hasn't got to practice. Just like the fish hasn't got to practice how to live within the water, natural. Svābhāvikī. It is called svābhāvikī. Svābhāvikī means by nature. If I want to fly in the sky, I will have to find out... Just like these boys are struggling with the waves with precaution, with so much practice, but a small fish, he doesn't care for big, big waves; it will go against. So that small fish is more powerful than you in that respect. You are struggling against the waves, but the small fish goes against the waves without any difficulty. A small teeny... So many things. There are many superiors than you. The most superior is God. That's all. That is the definition of God. You won't find anybody superior than Him. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). There is no more any superior. That is God.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Guru Mahārāja?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not that. (laughs) That Kṛṣṇa was requested by His teacher that, when He was offering that "Now I am going home. What shall I present to you, guru-dakṣiṇā, giving to the guru?" So he requested, "Kṛṣṇa, I have heard that You are so powerful. I lost my two sons. If you bring them..." So Kṛṣṇa immediately went and brought them from within the ocean. This is God. Similarly, Devakī also requested Kṛṣṇa that "Kṛṣṇa, before Your birth I lost seven children. Your maternal uncle killed them. So I want... I have heard that You have returned back the sons of Your teacher. Why not my sons?" So He brought them. That is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa went to Kāraṇārṇavaśāyī Viṣṇu, penetrating the covering of this universe. Arjuna also went with Him. You know that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. Kṛṣṇa...?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa went outside this universe, penetrating the sky. And Arjuna also accompanied Him. So it is Kṛṣṇa's power, He took His friend also. For ordinary human being it is not possible. But because Kṛṣṇa said that "All right, I'll take you." So He took him. This covering, universal covering, there are seven layers: earth, water, fire, air... Each layer is ten times bigger than the one layer. Then you go to the spiritual world.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I am convinced.
Prabhupāda: Then why don't you write in scientific language. All these material elements have come from life. Not that from material elements, life has come. No. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, "Everything from Me." But Kṛṣṇa is life. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So... And bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). So many informations are there. Me, "Mine," "I am," like that. So He is life. Our God is not dead. Our God is life, living, just like us, one of us. But He is more powerful. That's it. Our God eats, sleeps, like us, just like we eat, sleep. The difference is that He eats, but He keeps the thing as it is.
Kṛṣṇa-Kāntī: Oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).
Prabhupāda: Yes. And we eat, we finish. And we cannot again produce. God's power is like that, that He eats, at the same, keeps everything intact for your eating. And I, if you give me a plate, I eat and there is nothing for you. That is difference. He also eats. Otherwise we are making all these bogus things, preparing so many nice things, offering to God? Is that false?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.
Guest (8): "Best of the asuras."
Prabhupāda: Yes, "best of the asuras." Asura-varya. Varya means the best. And asura... Because his father was demon. So he was calling his father "demon number one." "My dear father, my dear asura-varya..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. "Anyone who has accepted this material body..." Dehinām, he has said. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. "They are all full of anxiety." Anyone. Not only human beings, even animals, birds, beasts. You'll see, when a bird is there, he'll always, that, "Some enemy may not come." Even animals. Even tiger is afraid, although he's so powerful. Elephant is afraid. sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Why? Asad-grahāt. "Because they have accepted this material body." Then what is the remedy? Now, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam, hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). "They should not be satisfied with the society, family and love and this and that. They should take shelter of the lotus feet of Hari. Then they'll be happy." We are trying to be satisfied in this material condition, society, friendship, love and so forth, so on and we are after that. But there, there is no possibility. Unless you take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, harim āśrayeta, there is no possibility. The whole world is trying to adjust things of the society, friendship, love and material atmosphere. That cannot be. That is not possible. Only by taking shelter... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says. Not whimsically. That is the only remedy: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the only remedy. There is no other remedy. But they'll not take. What can be done? This is the only remedy, harim āśrayeta. One should take shelter of Hari, Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be happy. Otherwise it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Āśu, "very immediate."
Reporter: Hm. Instant.
Prabhupāda: Instant.
Reporter: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So bhakti-yoga is so powerful. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).
Reporter: Is this in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: No, in Bhāgavatam.
Reporter: Bhāgavatam, yes.
Prabhupāda: This is practical. Big, big politicians, they are sticking to their position up to the point of death. Even Gandhi, unless he was fired, he could not give up.
Reporter: But he was not in power or position.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, could not give up the politics. I wrote Gandhi, "You have so much respect now, now you have got sva-rāja, you give up this business, let us preach Bhagavad-gītā, people will hear you." Before starting this movement, long ago, I wrote him a letter.
Yogeśvara: She's asking... This is a French nun, and she wishes to know whether for us Christ is the son of God or is He God Himself or what is the identity of Lord Jesus Christ?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jesus Christ says that he's son of God. That's all right. We accept.
Yogeśvara: (translates French throughout) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...ordinary son. And he's powerful son.
Yogeśvara: ...question. She asks what is the difference between our understanding of reincarnation and the Christian concept of the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Christ said he would come again. Is there a difference? Is it the same thing?
Prabhupāda: I don't find anything.
Yogeśvara: There was this gentleman this afternoon who was asking you about people who are constantly, constantly being tested by all kinds of miserable circumstances. She asks: Is it not a sign of a soul that God has chosen to favor that he sends them such miserable conditions of material life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, in miserable condition, they accept it as a favor of God.
Prabhupāda: This is the process. If you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is within yourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). When he sees you are anxious, then he helps you in cleansing the dirty things within your heart. Purport read?
Śrutakīrti: Messages of the Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa are nondifferent from Him. Whenever, therefore, offenseless hearing and glorification of God are undertaken, it is to be understood that Lord Kṛṣṇa is present there in the form of transcendental sound, which is as powerful as the Lord personally. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in His Śikṣāṣṭaka, declares clearly that the holy name of the Lord has all the potencies of the Lord and that He has endowed His innumerable names with the same potency. There is no rigid fixture of time, and anyone can chant the holy name with attention and reverence at his convenience. The Lord is so kind to us that He can be present before us personally in the form of transcendental sound, but unfortunately we have no taste for hearing and glorifying the Lord's name and activities. We have already discussed developing a taste for hearing and chanting the holy sound. It is done through the medium of service to the pure devotee of the Lord.
The Lord is reciprocally respondent to His devotees. When He sees that a devotee is completely sincere in getting admittance to the transcendental service of the Lord and has thus become eager to hear about Him, the Lord acts from within the devotee in such a way that the devotee may easily go back to Him. The Lord is more anxious to take us back into His kingdom than we can desire. Most of us do not desire at all to go back to Godhead. Only a very few men want to go back to Godhead. But anyone who desires to go back to Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa helps in all respects.
One cannot enter into the kingdom of God unless one is perfectly cleared of all sins. The material sins are products of our desires to lord it over material nature. It is very difficult to get rid of such desires. Women and wealth are very difficult problems for the devotee making progress on the path back to Godhead. Many stalwarts in the devotional line fell victim to these allurements and thus retreated from the path of liberation. But when one is helped by the Lord Himself, the whole process becomes as easy as anything by the divine grace of the Lord.
To become restless in the contact of women and wealth is not an astonishment, because every living being is associated with such things from remote time, practically immemorial, and it takes time to recover from this foreign nature. But if one is engaged in hearing the glories of the Lord, gradually he realizes his real position. By the grace of God such a devotee gets sufficient strength to defend himself from the state of disturbances, and gradually all disturbing elements are eliminated from his mind.
Prabhupāda: The prescribed methods are there. We have to adopt it. Without adopting the prescribed method, nobody can advance. But in this age the prescribed method is very simple. Simply to hear the holy name of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Practice. That will act, that will act, that will act.
Guest (1): So this was my question about how, he was not acting, but...,
Prabhupāda: No. He did not know. But because he was chanting raghupati rāghava rājā rāma, that has given him this effect, yes. On account of chanting. But he really did not understand. Just like the same example, the Mohammedan. He said "hā rāma." He wanted to speak "hārāma," but it become "hā rāma." That is the... He did not know anything about Rāma, but the name Rāma is so powerful that although he said, "hārāma," it effected. Yes. But Gandhi may not know the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, but as he chanted "hā rāma," that has been effective.
Pearl: I wondered what "Rāma" meant when we say the mantra, Hare Rāma, you see.
Prabhupāda: Rāma means...
Guest (3): So it was not due to his pious activities, but only he was practicing.
Prabhupāda: No, that is pious activity, that is pious activity.
Guest (1): That is why at the time of death he spoke Rāma, raghupati rāghava rājā rāma.
Prabhupāda: He was a pious man.
Guest (1): He was pious man.
Prabhupāda: Undoubtedly.
Śrutakīrti: He said he's still in the material world. Heavenly planets is still the material world.
Prabhupāda: Heaven is in the material world. Heaven is in the material world. You can get greater standard of life, greater duration of life, that's all. Higher standard of life. Just like Brahmā. Brahmā's one day you cannot calculate. He's so powerful, how he's created this universe. But he is in the material world. He's also a living entity like us, but very exalted. So he cannot get the post of Brahmā. But he can get life in higher planetary system. That is certain. That is explained in the, find out that verse. That is explained in the...um. That verse, yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). But he did not understand Bhagavad-gītā, that's a fact.
Guest (1): But what about this position of Vālmīki or Rāmāyaṇa?
Prabhupāda: They went to the kingdom of God. They knew what is Rāma.
Guest (1): They knew.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not in vague understanding.
Guest (1): They wouldn't be able to write Rāmāyaṇa if he didn't understand Lord Rāmacandra?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had meditated for sixty thousands of years.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) He did not understand, that's a fact. But even this child, he does not understand, but if he chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, that will be effective. If he understands or not understand. It doesn't matter.
Guest (1): The name is so powerful.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?
Pradyumna: Prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān.
Prabhupāda: Ah, prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān. This is the... So puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān means heavenly planet. Prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān. You cannot go to the heavenly planet unless you are very pious. So he's promoted in heavenly planet where the duration of life is very long, standard of living is very nice. But there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is that, prāpya puṇya-kṛtāṁ lokān?
Pradyumna: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ (BG 6.41).
Prabhupāda: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ. For a very long time. Because to get life in the heavenly planets means at least ten thousands of years. In their calculation. Their one day is equal to six months. In that way ten thousand years. Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ. What is it? Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ?
Pradyumna: Uṣitvā śāśvatīḥ samāḥ, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41).
Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pur ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pur means the heavenly planets. Ākāśa, it is just like will of the wisp. Something, just like, what do you say Hindi? There are many proverbs, which has no existence. Just like in Bengali we say ghoḍā-ḍima. Ghoḍa-ḍima. Ḍima means egg. The horse never lays down egg. But the word is running on: "the egg of horse." So it has no existence but the word is there. Similarly, what do you say in Hindi? Something which has no existence but it is current. I think there is.
Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time... Just like the father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice. That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because... Who is God? God means nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kaṭhopaniṣad. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also eternal, He's also cognizant. We are also eternal, we are also cognizant. But what is the difference between God and we? The difference is He maintains us. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Bahu-vacanam, nityānām, cetanānām, this is bahu-vacanam. And nityaḥ, cetanaḥ, eka-vacanam. So what is the difference between this singular number and plural number? The singular number is maintaining the plural number. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. So God is maintaining everyone. So difference is that He is so powerful, He can maintain every living entity. He's maintaining the elephants in Africa, who eat, at a time, forty kilos. He's supplying food. There's no scarcity of food in the jungle for the elephants. Neither there is scarcity... In the hole of your room, you'll find hundreds and thousands of ui. Who is feeding them, within the hole? Unless they're eating, sleeping, the same thing are there. How they are living very nicely? But who is giving them food within the hole? A small hole. You did not provide that hole. You did not provide their food. But there are hundreds and millions of ants. They're living there within the hole very happily. Sometimes they come out. We see: "Oh, wherefrom so many hundreds coming?" So eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That is God. He's supplying food. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities.
Pradyumna: Saṁsiddhiṁ paraṁ gati...
Prabhupāda: No... nāpnuvanti. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. Saṁsiddhim. Siddhi, siddhi is ordinary. If you become transcendentalist, jñānī, yogi, that is also kind of siddhi. Yogis, they have got aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā-laghimādi. But that is not saṁsiddhi. Saṁsiddhi is different. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ. The highest perfection, saṁsiddhi is to go back to home, back to Kṛṣṇa. That is saṁsiddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). That will save him from coming down again to this place which is full of miserable conditions of life. That is saṁsiddhi. That one can attain very easily. That is also described, that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: (BG 4.9) "Anyone who understands Me in truth..." Generally, people understand Kṛṣṇa that "He appeared as a great personality, son of Vasudeva. At Mathurā, He was born. And He acted very gorgeously in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, and so on, so on." This is also knowing. But this is not knowing factually that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands Kṛṣṇa, the original source of everything, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), which Kṛṣṇa explains, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no superior authority beyond Me." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of all." When one understands Kṛṣṇa like that... The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think that "I am also Kṛṣṇa, I am also Kṛṣṇa." But people who follow, they do not ask him that "If you are Kṛṣṇa, you show something as Kṛṣṇa showed. Kṛṣṇa lifted the Govardhana Hill when He was seven years old. And you are seventy years old. What you have done like that?" (laughs) So everyone wants to become Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot manifest Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Kṛṣṇa showed the virāṭ-rūpa to Arjuna. What you have got? So this is Māyāvāda. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody can be superior than Me or equal to Me, equal to Me." Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is Asamordhva. Nobody is equal; nobody is above Him. Asamordhva. So in this way if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then we become liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). And this tattvataḥ is very significant. How you can know Kṛṣṇa as He is, in truth? That is also explained. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). If you want to understand Kṛṣṇa in tattva, in fact, in truth, then you have to adopt this process of bhakti. Not jñāna, not yoga, not karma. Karma, jñāna, yoga, bhakti. So Kṛṣṇa is understandable simply by bhakti, not by other methods. Not by karma, not by jñāna, not by yoga. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). The jñānīs, karmīs, yogis, they are trying to come to the Absolute Truth, but they will take many, many births to come to this point to surrender. Therefore intelligence means if one understands that "Ultimately I have to come to Kṛṣṇa for my highest perfection; then why not immediately? Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why not take this process?" This is intelligence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births when one actually becomes wise, jñānavān, he surrenders, he surrenders." If one remains still unwise, not fully in knowledge, he hesitates, "Oh, why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is as like me; He is also a man. Maybe a powerful man, a very learned man." No. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So anyone who understands Kṛṣṇa, tattvataḥ, in truth... "Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, even if he does not understand fully, if he tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, that is also very good." That is also. Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer (SB 1.5.17). Even one tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, he does not finish, Kṛṣṇa says, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt: "Even little beginning of this devotional service can save one person from the greatest danger." Therefore there is great need of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement all over the world, to make them intelligent.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not how to preach.
Prabhupāda: No. This was the cause of breakdown. This was suppressed by Guru Mahārāja under his influence, but the rebellious was there during his lifetime. And it burst into... Therefore he advised that "You make a governing body and Kunja Babu should be allowed to remain manager." This was directly spoken. He never asked anybody to become ācārya. He asked that "You form a governing body of twelve men and go on preaching, and Kunja Babu may be allowed to remain manager during his lifetime." He never said that Kunja Babu should be ācārya. None, none of them were advised by Guru Mahārāja to become ācārya. His idea was "Let them manage; then whoever will be actual qualified for becoming ācārya, they will elect. Why I should enforce upon them?" That was his plan. "Let them manage by strong governing body, as it is going on. Then ācārya will come by his qualifications." But they wanted that... Because at heart, they were, "After demise of Guru, I shall become ācārya." "I shall become ācārya." So all the ācāryas began fight. One side, that Vāsudeva Ācārya and Sar Kunja Babu Ācārya. And Paramānanda, he thought that "Whoever will be powerful, I shall join them." (laughing) He only thought. But Guru Mahārāja never asked that these three men should be trustees. He wanted governing body. So the rebellion broke out immediately after his passing away. And then fight in the high-court. And Kunja Babu, he is very intelligent man. So from the very beginning he knew that "There will be fight after the demise of Guru Mahārāja. So fight will be in the high-court. So at the expense of Guru Mahārāja, let my brother and sons become attorneys and barrister so I will have not to pay all these things." It was a planned thing. And that is being done. He was a clerk, it was not in his power to make his brother and sons attorneys and barristers. They were all made at the cost of Gauḍīya Maṭha to fight with (indistinct) in favor of Tīrtha Mahārāja.
Guest: We give it at home, because we told her whatever she wanted to put things, mūrtis, other things, we have installed it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let her enjoy this devotional life. She has developed it. It is a fortune for you because if one member of the family becomes a devotee of the Lord he can deliver all the members. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father was Hiraṇyakaśipu, a demon.
Guest: I know.
Prabhupāda: Demon. Demon. (laughs) Prahlāda Mahārāja when he was asked, "Take benediction, whatever you like", he said, "Sir, what benediction I shall take? I have seen the benediction of my father. He was so powerful even the demigods trembled by his red eyes and You finished it within a second. So what is the value of this benediction? Kindly engage me in Your service." Then Prahlāda Mahārāja he did not ask anything for himself, but later on he asked Nṛsiṁha-deva, "Sir, my Lord, one request I can make. My father was great demon, he was against You, but still I pray that his liberation will be granted."
Devotee (2): Consciousness is also energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Energy of the soul. As soon as the soul is passed from the body, there is no more consciousness. It is very easy to understand. They cannot explain why the consciousness stops. They cannot explain. But that is the symptom. Yena sarvam idam, avināśi tu tad viddhi..., yena sarvam idam, in the Bhagavad-gītā. That thing which is spreading the energy all over the body, that is eternal. Now, what is that thing which is spreading the consciousness? It is the soul. So long the soul is there, you have got consciousness, otherwise there is no consciousness. Very plain word. Avināśi tu tad viddhi. Just try to understand that thing which is spreading consciousness all over the body. Just like a small grain of poison. As soon as you take it, immediately it will spread all over the blood. Even a small grain. And then how much powerful is that spiritual spark?
Devotee (2): So the grain is carried by the blood. What is the spiritual spark carried by?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual spark is not carried by, but he resides within the body. He is carried by his own karma, subtle, subtle desire is carried. Everyone is carried by his desire. Why did I come here, in America? I have got a desire to preach; therefore I've come. Otherwise I had no business to come here. So desire. So desire carries you. That is, the rascals, they do not know. Desire is there, they cannot see, but desire is there. Mind is there, intelligence is there; they cannot see. That is carried. The example is given, just like the aroma of a flower is being carried by the air. And nobody can see, but one can feel, "Oh, it is very good, nice aroma. Wherefrom it is coming?" But he has no eyes to see either the aroma or the air. Similarly, the soul after destruction of this body is being carried by the desire, but they have no eyes to see what is that desire, what is that soul, what is that intelligence. They are saying, "There is no soul." This is mostly stupidity.
Sudāmā: That's no good.
Prabhupāda: That's no good. That is not good. That means he'll... Very soon he'll again forget Kṛṣṇa. He'll again forget Kṛṣṇa.
Sudāmā: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Kṛṣṇa's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetfulness means māyā.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Māyā is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.
Sudāmā: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy, mentally, should, they still should continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy...
Prabhupāda: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?
Sudāmā: Yeah.
Umāpati: Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He even let me fall?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Umāpati: If God is so powerful, why does He let me fall. Why doesn't He save me, save me from my own foolishness. Why doesn't He...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's saving you, but you don't carry His order.
Umāpati: Yes, but it's not recognized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I say, "Chant sixteen rounds." If you do not do it. What can I do? That is your fault.
Satsvarūpa: If God were to force us, there'd be no love.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. Force is not good. Force is there. Force is there. The māyā is another force.
Prajāpati: There's a large segment of the population today who say, "We only speak about God in terms of our own relationships with each other." So one group, they say, "This is all male chauvinism, to say God is a male. Actually, we are saying now the women should be elevated so God is woman for us." They say like that.
Prabhupāda: God... But uh... Well, that's all right. God is male and female both. God, our God, sometimes He takes the form of female, Mohinī-mūrti. Mohinī-mūrti. But comparatively studying, God is puruṣa, male.
Hṛdayānanda: So it just enviousness. They're just envious.
Prabhupāda: Foolishness. Enviousness means one must be able. But they are not able. Simply foolishness.
Bali Mardana: They have created artificial gems, like...
Prabhupāda: Just like you are a powerful man. I am a powerful man. I become envious. That is allowed. But I'm not powerful, I'm trying to imitate you, it is foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they're saying that God didn't give me all the knowledge to do, how to make this water.
Prabhupāda: Because He wanted you to remain a fool. He wanted. Because you are atheist, He wanted that you shall remain ever fool. That is God's business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). These atheistic class, they remain always fools. Kṛṣṇa gives him birth in such a family, in such a country, in such a posi..., that he remains fools. He remains always fool. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, it's like the barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. It's like barber giving opinion on the science of medicine. Because the materialistic person, they claim to be expert of material science, and still, they want to give opinion on the spiritual science.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they are not even expert of material science. They are expert in bluffing others things with jugglery of words. That's it.
Prajāpati: In the Bible, it is also. An attempt was made to build a big, huge tower up to heaven. And the Lord was not very pleased with this attempt, and He scattered all the people. (about the ocean) Just wants to touch your lotus feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Big, powerful waves, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Big, powerful waves.
Prabhupāda: No, not very much. Up to this powerful. (laughter) Up to ten feet, that's all. (break)
Prajāpati: ...if these world leaders and scientists could hear your nectarean words and accept them and surrender, the world would be a very wonderful place.
Prabhupāda: Then make them. That is your duty. I am talking to you, and you talk to them. That is paramparā system. Alone, I cannot go everywhere. Now you learn and you speak.
Prajāpati: ...fear this condition is hopeless.
Prabhupāda: No, not at all. You simply expose these rascals, and everything hopeful. You have to know how to expose these rascals. That's all.
Hṛdayānanda: So the more we preach and chant, the more we become purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to become powerful spiritually. Then you'll be able. If you remain weak and manufacture your own way, then it will not be possible.
Hṛdayānanda: Oh. Jaya. (break)
Prajāpati: ...think the strength is our own, though.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prajāpati: We should not think that this is our own strength.
Prabhupāda: No. We have to work by the strength of Kṛṣṇa. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi tam. He'll give, supply the strength. Or, in other words, you have already got the strength. You have to revive it. That's all. Actually, that is the position. As spiritual spark, we have got immense strength. But we are now identifying with this body. (break) ...hill. It was formerly very high. Now why it has gone down? This hill?
Hṛdayānanda: Oh, rocks.
Prabhupāda: Rocks, yes.
Prabhupāda: ...two classes of men: the communist and the non-communist. Not exactly communist and capitalist, but communist and non-communist. Out of these two, the communists are going to be powerful. This is the world tendency. So if the world becomes full of communists, then the human civilization will be finished. All rogues and rascals, that's all. The American government wants to check this tendency. But they cannot check it if they remain "so-called trust in God." That will not be possible. So according to our proposition... Not only now, it is forever. Two classes of men are there: sura and asura. Surāsura. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved devaḥ. Deva and sura, the same thing. Asuras tad viparyayaḥ. And the asura, or the demons, godless. So if the Americans remain godless in the name of so-called trust in God, they will not be able to check this communistic movement. They will not be able. Now, if they are serious to check this communistic movement, save the American country as well as the whole world, then they must be very serious to understand what is God and what is trust in God. Otherwise this communistic movement will finish the civilized human society. So you are thoughtful. They must be very serious about it. And this is the only movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which can make all people actually trust in God and explain what is meant by God. Demons, they... If the communists are demons and the capitalists are also demons, fighting between demons, there will be war and loss of life, but nobody will come out victorious. That is going on. There is occasional world war, but the situation of the world remains the same. No party has become able to change the situation of the world. What do you think, Karandhara?
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually, when they formed the country and made the constitution, the concept was they were basically they believed in God, but they were afraid that some religion would become politically powerful and disturb the...
Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." So what can be done? "We don't care for the government." Just like Gandhi started civil disobedience movement, disobedience to the government laws, but all the whole stock was put into jail and they were beaten with shoes. But still, they said, "No, we are..." This is an example. Similarly, everyone is obeying, surrendering to God. But because they are rascal and fools, they are denying that we have surrendered. This is their position, madness. nobody can stay without surrendering to God. It is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, far different. It can be immediately on the...
Prabhupāda: Just like Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), "Immediately comes to Me." So just see the velocity. Tyaktvā deham. As soon as he gives up this body, immediately goes to Kṛṣṇa. So see... Where is Kṛṣṇa? You cannot estimate even this material world. And then you enter the spiritual world. And then you go to the highest planet of the spiritual world, Goloka Vṛndāvana. So you cannot calculate how far it is, neither by driving your aeroplane of mind and vāyu, you can reach there. But the soul is so powerful that immediately goes there. Just like mind. You are here, many thousand miles away, 25,000 miles away in somewhere, immediately goes, mind goes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just at will.
Prabhupāda: At will. So the soul is still finer. Intelligence is finer than the mind. And soul is finer than the intelligence. So just imagine what is the velocity. Soul is so powerful. By yogi, simply giving up this material body, they can capture the sun rays and immediately go to the sun planet. Beams of the sun. This is science. Where is that science?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, he does not accept Kṛṣṇa. That is rejected. Now we are talking about him. If he is light, why does he use electric light? If he says, "The inner light," then you are relative. You see only inner side, not outside. Therefore you are relative. Therefore you are not God. God is absolute. Antar-bahiḥ. One has to see light inside and outside. That is real light. If the light is checked by some material condition, that is not absolute light. That is electric light. As soon as you come to the condition, then it is relative. It is not absolute. (break) A man can be changed from barking to chanting, but dog cannot be. (break) ...is so powerful that as soon as there is sunrise, immediately darkness gone. Similarly, if the absolute light is there, if there is need of electricity, what kind of light it is? Even the relative light is so powerful that immediately darkness gone. So you are not as powerful as the relative light. So what kind of light you are? This should be the argument. You are cheating. You are not light. You are darkness. Our, that slogan is "Where there is God, there is no darkness." "Kṛṣṇa is like the sun, and nescience is like darkness. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no darkness." Don't waste time with these rascals. Go on with your own business. You sold Bhagavad-gītā. (laughs) That is our profit. That's all.
Prabhupāda: If the chanter is sincere.
Jagajjīvana: In the Dominican Republic which is an island near us, the chanting is so powerful, it draws so many people, that the government won't let us in to the country because it is so powerful. We have devotees there now, though. We had to send a devotee incognito, in disguise, to get residence there. Now he's...
Prabhupāda: Oh, they will not give place?
Jagajjīvana: They didn't let us in the country, but we have devotees there now. (break) We had an article in a magazine recently. I can show it to you later.
Prabhupāda: What does he say?
Jagajjīvana: Well, it's about that we weren't allowed into the Dominican Republic and they were stopping us from coming in, and that one million people buy our books and that millions of people buy our books and many people...
Prabhupāda: Spanish book?
Jagajjīvana: All types of books. Had some nice pictures. In the article there is a picture of us giving books to the governor of Puerto Rico. (break)
Prabhupāda: So we have got books in Spanish now? Which book?
Jagajjīvana: We have the...
Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Feeling all right? I think you joined when I first came here?
Jayaśrī: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (break) ...savitā sakala-grahāṇām. Gāyatrī mantra is worshiping the sun. Yac cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimitedly powerful, unlimitedly heated. Aśeṣa, how much heat is there, your brain cannot accommodate. And therefore it is said, aśeṣa-tejāḥ: "without any limit." This is God's creation. Where is the scientist who can create a small sun? How this water is going there? Where is the pipe? You rascal, if you want to pump your water in the skyscraper building, you require pumping and pipe and so many things, but where is the pipe? And where is the pumping station or pumping machine? But you'll find so much water. How the water is transferred there? What is their explanation? They'll use simply some bogus jugglery of words. That's all. But produce it, without pipe, without pump. Let the water go up, up. "Yes, we are trying. In future we shall do it." And what about of the present? Who is that scientist?
Hṛdayānanda: From the very beginning we should teach Bhagavad-gītā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But our, our position is that we are above varṇāśrama. But for management or ideal society, we are introducing this. We, so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we are above varṇāśrama. But to show the people that we are not escaping, we can take part in any order of life. That is our position. Just like if I brush somebody's shoes, that does not mean I am shoemaker. My position is the same. But to show how to do it... Just like a servant is doing. The master is, "Oh, you cannot do. Just see." Just like I show you sometimes how to mop. So I am not a mopper, but I am showing how to mop. So our position is like that. We do not belong to any varṇa and āśrama. But we have to show these rascals. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He, he was perfect Vaiṣṇava, but when he was king, he was fighting like anything. Not that, "Oh, I am now become Vaiṣṇava. I cannot kill." What is this? He killed like anything. When the Yakṣas attacked his kingdom, he was killing like anything then the Yakṣa-rāja came and asked him to pardon this. He immediately accepted. So he wanted to give him some benediction, that "You are so great that simply on my request, you have stopped killing these rascals, Yakṣas. So you can take some benediction from me." He said, "That's all right. Thank you. You give me the benediction that I may be a pure lover of Kṛṣṇa. That's all." This benediction he asked. Although he was so powerful and, the Yakṣa-rāja, he could give him the wealth of the whole universe. But he made that, "Thank you very much. You give me this benediction that I may remain a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa." This is Vaiṣṇava. He is doing everything, but his aim is to please Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, even if we take to varṇāśrama, we do not belong to any... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mayā sṛṣṭam. "I have inaugurated." But Kṛṣṇa has nothing to do with varṇāśrama. Similarly, if we act as varṇāśrama, still, we have nothing to do with the varṇāśrama.
Prabhupāda: ...men, so everyone should be very alert in their behavior. Rising early in the morning, taking bath, be prepared for maṅgala āratik immediately. Then class. Everything in regulated way. (break) ...and still everyone comes to the point, "I know everything." This point.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā, then nobody can supercede. (break) ...he turns back all our money invested, (indistinct) people. (break) ...if he's prepared to pay double the price, so why not pay the full price, fourteen lakhs? We have paid two lakhs, let him pay twelve lakhs and he'll immediately transfer, and we'll take double price from him, so that... (break) ...if he's so eager. These, these are practical. If he's prepared to pay double, why not pay us? (break—switches to room conversation) Sun is the same. The power observation, this is a morning sun, this is noon sun. The sun is the same. We sometimes say that because this noon sun, it is so strong. So sun is always powerful. It is our appreciation, relative appreciation, that we consider in the morning it is less scorching and in the noon it is very scorching. Kṛṣṇa is always Kṛṣṇa. ...tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Nija-rūpa kalā taya.
Prabhupāda: Ah! No, Kṛṣṇa has no such distinction as body and soul. Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. He comes in His own, original body. Sambhavāmi yuge... Prakṛtiṁ svām. Not this prakṛti. Svām, the spiritual body. That they do not take.
Mr. Sar: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto mamāvyayam anuttamam.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). That Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that He can come in a spiritual body. Otherwise how He remembers millions of years. If His body's changing, it is material, then how He can remember?
Mr. Sar: Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā... (BG 7.25).
Prabhupāda: Ah. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ... Therefore He's not manifest except to the devotee.
Mr. Sar: Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25).
Prabhupāda: Again, mūḍha and mūḍha comes. (laughter)
Mr. Sar: Vedāhaṁ samatītāni vartamānāni cār... (BG 7.26)
Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni.
Dr. Patel: Kālātītaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Kāla āti... Yes.
Prabhupāda: Now, these mūḍhas, they will think, "Huh? It is controlled by Kṛṣṇa? He is ordinary man like this." A mūḍha. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto. He does not know how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa, the mūḍha.
Dr. Patel: But you see, this is not like this, that those fools... (break)
Prabhupāda: That is also another mūḍha, but supposing if Kṛṣṇa says that "I am controlling the whole universe." The mūḍha will not believe it. "Huh? How is that? How...? Such a big gigantic prakṛti, and He is a person. He can control?" The mūḍha cannot understand. He cannot understand that how much powerful is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know what is the all-omniscient nature of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: The spiritual power of Kṛṣṇa. No. Paraṁ bhāva? Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12).
Prabhupāda: Therefore, as soon as these rascals, they get little power, yogic perfection, they think, "I have become God. I have become God."
Prabhupāda: So they are trying to get that siddha, the perfection, by so much yogic process, but another living entity, without understanding any yogic process, can do that. So these things are not very great gains. There are... In different planets there are different living entities. Just like we cannot touch fire, but in the sun globe there are also life, human beings, but their body is made of fire. Just like in the water. I cannot go into the water, but there are so many small fishes, they are living very nicely. So this we do not know. We are trying to gain success in these material activities, but by God's will, there are different living entities. They have already all the successes. So therefore our real business is not to waste our time to get any material success. Our real business is how we shall be successful to become an obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is real success.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Let me explain this. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered benediction, "Now you take benediction." So he said that "Where is benediction? I have seen my father was so powerful materially that even the demigods, they were frightened. So even if I get certain material successes, but you can finish it within a second. So why shall I take all these benedictions? Please engage me as the servant of your servant. That is my success."
Yaśomatīnandana: When Kṛṣṇa appeared He could assume any other incarnation's form, Lord Rāmacandra, Lord Varāha.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: But Lord Rāmacandra could not assume Lord Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. Lord Rāmacandra also can do. They are all full powerful.
Bhāgavata: Oh, Rāmacandra is full opulence.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, but Rāmacandra's full opulence was not exhibited. There was no necessity. But it is not that He could not. Yes.
Girirāja: So at the end of the Kṛṣṇa Book, when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna visit Lord Viṣṇu and Viṣṇu calls them incarnations of Himself, that is because Kṛṣṇa appeared through Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. (break) ...covering of the universe. There are seven coverings. Each covering is ten times bigger than the one. Again, the seven elements...
Girirāja: So at night when we look up, everything that we see is within this universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes, within this universe, yes. And there are innumerable universes.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. If... They are very, very great, powerful. Even apparently it seems that they were victims of beauty, that is not the fact.
Satsvarūpa: If their son was Vyāsadeva, how could it be falldown?
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.
Satsvarūpa: If the son was Vyāsadeva...
Prabhupāda: He could beget a child like Vyāsadeva. (break)
Girirāja: (reading from Kṛṣṇa Book) "Chapter Two. Prayers by the Demigods for Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Womb. King Kaṁsa not only occupied the kingdoms of the Yadu, Bhoja and Andhaka dynasties and the kingdom of Śūrasena..." (break)
Prabhupāda: So the only expense... (break) ...intention of Kṛṣṇa.
Girirāja: Kṛṣṇa and yog...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...he says, this mantra, nāyam ātmā bala-hīnā na labhya, he says, "Unless you very, become very stout and strong, there is no question of advancement in spiritual life. Therefore we should first of all eat meat and become very strong, and then we'll be spiritual realized."
Prabhupāda: I will talk. Why he is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? And not only that... I do not know whether here. In Delhi have seen Rāma-līlā, the effigy of Rāvaṇa is beaten with shoes sometimes. But actually he was a great devotee of Lord Śiva. Everyone knows. And he was so big devotee that Lord Śiva gave him all benedictions, "Whatever you want." So why this Rāvaṇa is described in the śāstra as rākṣasa? Why he is not described as a saintly person? He was a brāhmaṇa by birth. He was born of a brāhmaṇa father, and he was great student of Vedas. Materially he was very opulent so that he could control even the demigods. He was so powerful. Still, with all this qualification, why he is described as rākṣasa? You answer this point.
Indian man (2): Because he had some fight with... So kāma, krodha, moha, lobha, he had that also... (break)
Prabhupāda: He is not a devotee of the Lord. So anyone... That is our criterion. Anyone who is not a devotee, whatever he may be... He may be very, very big or so-called saintly, but according to the description of the śāstras, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We shall calculate in that way. As soon as we...
Indian man (3): He was devotee of Lord Śiva. Otherwise why Lord Śiva gives him whatever he wants?
Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished. So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court. Although everyone respects Mahatma Gandhi, but why he was put into jail? According to law. It may be it is man-made law, it is wrong, but the principle is that whatever is judgement of the śāstra, we have to take. It doesn't matter who is that man and how great he is. That is... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim sa... (BG 16.23). The śāstra is given stress always. So you cannot go beyond the verdict of the śāstra. That is the injunction.
Prabhupāda: ...and Nalakuvara, but He remained bound up.
Indian Man (1): About His līlā?
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Yaśodāmāyī is more powerful than Kṛṣṇa.
Indian Man (1): No, devotees are more powerful always.
Prabhupāda: (laughing) Just see. He liberated Nalakuvera, but He remained bound up by the rope of Yaśodāmāyī. (break) ...children. (break) ...some conjugal love.
Dr. Patel: Then he became eight years old. How could any gopī have conjugal love with a boy of seven or eight years?
Indian Man (1): Spiritual love.
Prabhupāda: That is not this love. That is a different love.
Dr. Patel: Conjugal love is mādhurya-rāsa.
Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rāsa, yes... (break) eat along with my father. Unless I come, father will not...
Dr. Patel: But you were brought up in a big city, but I was brought up in a small village. Actually... (break)
Prabhupāda: The same. It doesn't matter whether it is in the village or town.
Prabhupāda: ...observing Śiva-rātri, Nanda Mahārāja and all the cowherds men, they increased their attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.
Pancadravida: "After this incident, on a very pleasant night both Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother Balarāma, who are inconceivably powerful, went into the forest of Vṛndāvana." (break)
Prabhupāda: "Dressing is artificial. It is not required. Yes. This naked body is very nice." (break) No, you don't... You cannot be naga-bābā. That is not good. (break) If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, all these rascaldom becomes charming. When one is Kṛṣṇa conscious these things does not appeal.
Pancadravida: "Kṛṣṇa's transcendental form, quali..." (break)
Prabhupāda: Law is there. (break) ...speak in all language, even in the animal, birds' language. Babudaka.
Dr. Patel: Keśi-nisūdana.
Prabhupāda: Keśi-nisūdana.
Yadubara: "Keśi rushed toward with Lord with great..." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...control his mouth.
Dr. Patel: This (indistinct) practically amongst all the, I mean, animals, lower and higher. There are demons who are against. Even horse, even birds, even snake. Eh?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Satsvarūpa: "You are calling us animals?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering. Why you have caught me? What right you have got to punish me? Because we are the same. You are doing in a larger scale, I am doing in a small scale. That is the difference." So he was set free, "Yes." Alexander the Great, he was sensible man, "Yes, what I am doing? The same thing in a bigger scale that's all." So these rascal, actually, they are animals, but they are declaring advancement. What advancement? The same thing: eating, sleeping, sex and defending. That is animal... The dogs also do like that. They also eat, they also sleep, they have sex life. Now they are coming to the dog's life. A dog, just like street, they have sex life. They are coming, advance. This is advancement, that "We have become now pure dog. So long it was hidden, now we are open." This is the civilization, animal civilization.
Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine. People pass urine on the street, and the sunshine absorbs the urine, evaporates, but sun is still pure. Rather, the place where the urine was passed, it becomes disinfected. Similarly, those who are powerful, īśvara, godly, you cannot imitate their actions. They are apparently doing something wrong; still, they are pure. The same example. The sun is absorbing or evaporating the urine, but sun is still pure. But if I imitate and lick up the urine, that is not very good business. Similarly, we cannot imitate the powerful, we have to simply follow the instruction of the powerful. That is... But people, on slight imitation... Is that very good reason? Suppose Christ sometimes ate fish, but that is sufficient reason to maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Because Christ said... And he teached in the desert. Suppose there was no food and he had to eat some fish. So that is his business. He could do it. He is powerful. But does it mean on that strength throughout the whole world the Christians will maintain big, big, up-to-date machinery for slaughterhouse? So it is sinful. So Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense, who were eating and killing animals on the strength of Vedas. They did not know what is the meaning, but they would say in the Vedas it is stated, paśavo vadhyaḥ sṛṣṭaḥ: "The animals are created for being killed." And what purpose it is killed? They, without knowing... Actually, they wanted to satisfy their tongue by eating the flesh, but they would give Vedic evidences. So to stop this nonsense business Buddha said that "I don't care for your Vedas." Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. Śruti-jātam means Vedic injunction.
Robert Gouiran: Who organized it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without that, it is nothing.
Robert Gouiran: It's just to put forward...
Prabhupāda: Therefore behind this big, gigantic machine, physical world, there is a living entity, a big, powerful living entity. He is God. We are simply sample of God, a small particle. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). Just find out this. Mamaivāṁśaḥ.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are samples of God, small particles. Just like gold, big gold mine and a small particle of gold. Both of them are gold. Composition is the same. So we, the small particle of God, we are trying to create here so many things. The creating energy is there. Because we are a small particle of God, very small, so we have got so much energy, and we are planning so many things. Because on account of that creative energy. So you can just imagine how much creative energy has got the Supreme Lord, of whom we are little samples. We are little sample only, part and parcel, very small particle. So we are creating by our mind... Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. By our senses and mind, we are so many things planning. You are also working in the laboratory with that senses and mind. But you are the creative energy. So the struggle is that we are planning to become happy within this material world. That is described here: manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). Karṣati is simply struggling. That's all.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The Khān Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it requires the devotee who can explain from any godly literature about God. How rascal they are! "Jesus Christ ate fish. Therefore we shall maintain big, big slaughterhouse." Just see the argument. Then, in the Bengali, mosa makta kanan (?). There was a mosquito, and one is asking, "Bring a cannon." "Bring a cannon." Mosa makta kanan. Jesus Christ ate somewhere. There was no food available to eat, might have. Accepting he ate, but that, does it mean that you have to maintain slaughterhouse? Just see. And besides that, he might have done anything. He's powerful. He can eat. Therefore the other day I said, "He can eat the whole world." But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instruction. That is Christianity.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Many of the young people now, they look to the Bible for instruction, but they don't like to go to church at all. They feel that the church is hypocritical.
Prabhupāda: Hypocritical, simply hypocritical. All these priests and cardinals and popes, they're all hypocritical. Getting high, highly salaried, high salaries, and drinking wine. And in America there is a hospital, five thousand drunkard priests are admitted there to cure their drinking habit. That was published in a paper. And they're sanctioning man to man marriage. That was published in that, what is that? Watch?
Satsvarūpa: Watchtower?
Prabhupāda: Watchtower. Yes.
Guru-gaurāṅga: But now, countries like Switzerland, they're afraid that if there is one kingdom, they will lose their standard of living.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Their nice standard of living will be lost.
Prabhupāda: No, why? The standard of living should be one: plain living and God consciousness. That is the disease. Everyone wants to enjoy this material world to his best capacity. Therefore we divide. They don't want to live in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Material consciousness. Enjoyment of the senses. And that is the cause of their suffering. Only on account of this sense gratification, they're creating different mentality, and, after death, they're getting different body. That they do not know. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. One is trying to associate with the goodness, brāhmaṇa, brāhmaṇa qualification, he'll be promoted, and one who is trying to imitate, "I shall be as powerful as the tiger," he'll be degraded. It is nature's law.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one person asked the other day that "You say that we have a choice, that either we can surrender to Kṛṣṇa, or we can remain under the control of the external energy."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And his question was that those in the mode of passion and ignorance, do they have any choice?
Prabhupāda: Everyone has choice. Everyone has choice. Choice, but under the control. Exactly like that. By your choice, you go to the prison house. By your choice, you go to the university. There is supreme control, government. But it is your choice, whether you want to live in the prison or in the university. that is your choice. Government does not say that "Oh, this man will come to the university, and this man will go to the prison house." No. You make your choice, you work according to that, and government sends you either to the prison or to the university. You cannot say... One man is condemned to be killed for murdering, another man is rewarded some prize, you cannot say government is partial. You have made your choice, and government is giving you the result. (pause) Once you make your choice to steal, then you are under prison house. Immediately.
Yogeśvara:
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
"O conqueror of wealth (Arjuna), there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread."
Prabhupāda: So "Nobody is superior to Me," there is nobody controller. Kṛṣṇa is not controlled by anyone. Therefore, He is īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). That is final God. Otherwise God... You will find, you are more powerful than me, he is more powerful than you, and somebody is more powerful than him, go on, go on, seeing, seeing. But when you come to Kṛṣṇa, nobody is more powerful than Him. Mattaḥ parataram. Parataram means better or higher principle, no.
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Prabhupāda: Then it is confirmed by Arjuna, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān, puruṣam (BG 10.12). "You are person"—puruṣam means person—śāśvatam, "eternally." Then he says that "It is not that You have said. I see from Your instruction, and it is confirmed by Vyāsadeva, by Devala, by Nārada." Then it is final.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu says... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis.
- nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
- tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
- etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavan mamāpi
- durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ
Bahudhā: God has many names. If you are missing, so you can take one of the name. Kṛṣṇa is one of the names, so what is the objection? And Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "In this name, all the potencies of God is there." Nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śakti tatrārpitā. That name is as powerful as God Himself. There is no difference between the name and God, because He is absolute. Here in the material world there is the difference between name and the person or the thing. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," that will not appease my thirstiness. But the spiritual world, absolute, the name and the person is the same. Abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ (CC Madhya 17.133). Under the circumstances, if you are missing some name, so take this name. Why it should not be taken?
Jyotirmayī: (French)
Priest: Yeah, but you can take "Rāma," you can take "Paraśurāma," you can take (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, any name, any name.
Priest: Kṛṣṇa has no special...
Prabhupāda: No. Special there is. In this way, it is recommended in the śāstra, recommended in the śāstra: harer nāma. Harer means of God. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). So this is the... We have to chant the name of God. This is the prescription. This is Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.
Nitāi: "Because material energy, nature, is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of the planning commissions. The atheistic planmakers are described herein by the word duṣkṛtina, or miscreant. Kṛtina means one who has performed meritorious work. The atheistic planmaker is sometimes very intelligent and meritorious also because any gigantic plan, good or bad, must take intelligence to execute. But because the atheist brain is improperly utilized in opposing the plan of the Supreme Lord, the atheistic planmaker is called duṣkṛtina, which indicates that his intelligence and efforts are misdirected. In the Gītā it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction..."
Prabhupāda: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything—they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?
Bhagavān: Folies Bergere.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very good idea. Therefore, everyone can dedicate his energy to God. And that is called bhakti.
Guest (4): (French)
Yogeśvara: Is the sun to be considered a representation of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes, every..., everyone is representation of God. Sun is more powerful representation. You are also representation of God. The God is also a living being. That is said in the dictionary, Oxford Dictionary. God means, "Supreme Being." So we are all beings, and God is the Supreme Being. We are limited by our power. God is unlimited by His power.
Lady (3): (French)
Yogeśvara: When we say Kṛṣṇa, are we speaking about God or an incarnation of God? How to define it?
Prabhupāda: No, God Himself.
Lady (4): (French)
Yogeśvara: Then what is the meaning of the word ātmā?
Prabhupāda: Ātmā means also God. Ātmā means this body. Ātmā means this mind. Ātmā means the soul, and ātmā means also God. Ātmā means the active principle which is working. Just like in you the ātmā is there, therefore your body is moving. Similarly, the active principle of the whole cosmic manifestation is God.
Satsvarūpa: So you are dead for about seven months.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that may be, according to the body you are getting. There are 8,400,000 species of body. So according to your work you will be allowed to enter into the womb of mother. How can you check it? Where is your scientist? That is nature's law, automatically. Just like if you are infected, you get this disease. That's all. There is no need of mother nature will take personal... No, the rules are so fine that you will get automatically. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). The Kṛṣṇa's energies are so powerful and subtle that it takes everything takes automatically. One set up, then after that, after that, after that, after that—everything is there. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. You have no control. You are simply under the grip of material nature. Everything, whatever you are doing, immediately it is being recorded automatically. Just like automatic printing press. You simply push the paper, and magazine comes. If you can manufacture some machine, you rascal, then how subtle machine can work on under the supervision of the Supreme?
Prabhupāda: Next. Next bank balance. Then?
Cāru: " 'So much is mine now and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything, I am the enjoyer, I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice.' In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance."
Prabhupāda: Just like Hitler, Napoleon. They thought like that. Yes. Then? Next verse?
Cāru: Aneka-citta-vibhrāntā moha-jāla samāvṛtāḥ...
Prabhupāda: Now where is Hitler? Where is Napoleon? Finished. Then?
Cāru: Moha-jāla-samāvṛtāḥ, prasaktāḥ kāma-bhogeṣu patanti narake 'śucau: (BG 16.16) "Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, one becomes too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and falls down into hell."
Prabhupāda: Then?
Cāru:
- ātma-sambhāvitāḥ stabdhā
- dhana-māna-madānvitāḥ
- yajante nāma-yajñais te
- dambhenāvidhi-pūrvakam
- (BG 16.17)
"Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations."
- ahaṅkāraṁ balaṁ darpaṁ
- kāmaṁ krodhaṁ ca saṁśritāḥ
- mām ātma-para-deheṣu
- pradviṣanto 'bhyasūyakāḥ
- (BG 16.18)
"Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body..."
Prabhupāda: Next stage. "What is God? I am God."
Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No. That is not possible. Big, big brain, scientist, they are dealing. Similarly this big energy-creation, maintenance, and destruction of nature—that nature is called Durgā. Durgā. Duḥ. Duḥ means difficult, and gā means going or to understand. To understand the laws of material nature is very difficult. That is called Durgā. Or Durgā means... Durgā means this is like a fort. We are kept within this, and the superintendent is Durgā. Therefore Durgā's picture is ten hands, ten directions with different kinds of weapon protecting. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānu... (Bs. 5.44). Now the conclusion. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā: "She is working not independently, according to the desire of somebody else." Who is that somebody? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **: "That is Govinda. I am worshiping Him." And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: ...atomic bomb there. Huh? (laughter) It is a burning mass of... Suppose it is a burning mass. So what atomic bomb will act there?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atomic bomb normally acts as, ah, what happened is the particles floating in the atmosphere, like chemicals, chemicals, what happened is this explosion offers this, ah, fundamental particles like neutrons, electrons, they bombard further atoms which are already in the atmosphere. So one by one they knock out these smaller particles called electrons. They move very high velocity. There is a very tremendous energy, amount of energy released. So one... So suppose first atomic bomb, ah, the, ah, the energy-bringing substance like electron, neutron, hits another atom, and then it knocks out several of that sort, and then it makes a chain reaction, not stopping because..., and thereby several atoms they will knock each other, one by one, without stopping. Small particles, so much energy has got. But in the sun planet, where it is so hot, it is already probably more powerful that the atomic bomb itself.
Prabhupāda: Therefore this example. (laughs) What it will act, the atomic bomb, in the sun planet? Similarly, Brahmā might have possessed some power, but what is that power in comparison to Kṛṣṇa? Every power is derived from Him; so Brahmā's mystic power cannot act on Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: No? What is the purpose of scientific research?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: To conquer over the laws of nature.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Is it not? The laws of nature is already powerful. So you have not conquered over the laws of nature. Then how science is powerful?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You cannot conquer the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science cannot conquer the laws of nature. That is why they try to think only about the body, the bodily concept. To give them comfort to the body by...
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification. That's all. Everything ending in sense gratification. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There is no stoppage of that... Yes. And here, stoppage. Just see. It is clear conspiracy. It is not that police. Police cannot be so powerful that he can stop. If there was any discrepancy, why did not they take step that "You have done... You have violated the rules." They should have prosecuted us. Now, without saying anything at that time, now want to stop it.
Jayatīrtha: It's just their tactic.
Prabhupāda: It is tactic. They're factually seeing that "These people, they have brought some Jagannātha and thousands of people following it. And nobody's coming to our church?" It is very common sense thing. The church is being closed. And all the young men, they are joining. Not old men, old fools. No. All young, flourishing, young men are joining. So they want to stop it now. (pause) Take it. (break)
Madhukāṇṭa: ...regard, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that we are making counter-propaganda against māyā, and that māyā will make propaganda very strong.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
| Page Title: | Powerful (Conversations 1967 - 1974) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 18 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=87, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 87 |