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Population (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: He's 24 now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Renunciation. So one day it so happened that instead of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya was chanting, "Gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī, gopī," instead of chanting "Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa." So He had a small school. The brāhmaṇas, generally they keep a small school which is called catuṣpaṭhī. (spells out) C-c-h-a-a-t-u-s-p-a-t-h-i. Catuṣpaṭhī, catuṣpaṭhī means a school where up to the four Vedas are taught. Grammar and religion and everything is taught there. In every village that was system. The brāhmaṇas should keep up a school like that. Students were all almost they were also of the same age. Some of them were fifteen years old, sixteen years old. So students came and saw Lord Caitanya was chanting "Gopī gopī," so they objected. They said, "Oh, why You are chanting 'gopī gopī'? Why should You not chant 'Kṛṣṇa'? 'Hare Kṛṣṇa'?" So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in His ecstasy because He was... In the beginning, His appearance is in the form of gopī, to love Kṛṣṇa. So He became very much angry, and because they were students, He wanted to chastise them. He took a stick. "You nonsense! What you are speaking? Go away!" So they fled away, but after that they organized. "Oh, how is that? Caitanya, He is... How He has become so big that He wants to beat us?" In this way they practically they were talking ill of Him. So He decided that "If I remain a householder, these people will not honor Me." Because in those days a sannyāsī was honored in the society very much. If a sannyāsī comes to your village or to a householder's house it was very... Still it is going on, although not so widely. But still 80% of the population in India, if they find out a sannyāsī they give all honor. So He decided that "Now I shall become a sannyāsī." So He happened to see Keśava Bhāratī, a sannyāsī of the Śaṅkara sampradāya, and He requested him that "You give Me sannyāsa." So He took sannyāsa from Keśava Bhāratī and He was assisted by Nityānanda, Murāri Gupta, and some other people. So this is His renunciation decision and acceptance of sannyāsa.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Devotee (1): You were talking about Prahlada.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Prahlada Maharaja said. Yes. About this body. It is arrangement, according to different body. Now, these swans, they have left this, defending, they're going away. This is defending only. Yes. And as soon as they're on the water, they think, "Oh, we are safe because these rascals cannot come in the water." (laughter) They are thinking about us "rascals." As we are thinking about them that they are lower animals, so they are also thinking, "These are rascals." Just like some father rebukes a son, the son also thinks of the father as rascal, "Unnecessarily he's chastising me." There is a proverb that as the child grows... (break) ...also thinks that "This boy is a fool; he'll do wrong by..." This is stated. And the child is stated in a different way. Just like sometimes our audience also. When we speak they think, "What nonsense he's speaking. Oh, Kṛṣṇa, what is this Kṛṣṇa? Let us enjoy." They are not purified. So this Prahlada Mahārāja says that according to the body, the specific facilities of eating, sleeping, mating, and defending is already arranged. It is already arranged. So one hasn't got to learn. Just like for mating. There is no college or school where in the classroom dis..., that "This is way you have to mate." Everyone knows automatically. Everyone knows how to mate automatically. Nobody is taught how to laugh. Oh, when laughing comes, it, automatically one laughs. Nobody's taught how to cry. Everyone cries when there is some distress. So these things, what is wanted as the necessity of my body, so arrangement is there. But because we have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, you think that "We can do something." Therefore we take advantage of our high intelligence to defend ourselves more nicely, to have mating more nicely, or eating more nicely. And a devotee should be satisfied that whatever Kṛṣṇa arranged, that's all right. That Kṛṣṇa prasādam we will take. Whatever Kṛṣṇa has kindly sent, let me be satisfied with this. They do not want more than that. Similarly, "Kṛṣṇa has sent me this woman as my wife, oh, let me be satisfied with that." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that He's pleased to send me such foodstuff, He's pleased to send me such wife, He's pleased to give me strength for so much defense." So the whole question is solved there. But because we have got high intelligence, we are going to surpass the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has given me this wife? Why not search out another nice wife?" That means I am going to surpass the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has sent this prasādam. Oh, this is all vegetables. Why not take some animal food and liquor?" Kṛṣṇa does not send you liquor. You have manufactured. Kṛṣṇa has sent you this fruit, He has sent you the grains, Kṛṣṇa has sent you the milk. You should be satisfied. Why should you manufacture liquor? Why should you manufacture slaughterhouse? We don't eat meat. Are we dying ninety percent of Indian population, they don't eat meat. They're simply vegetarian. Yes. And you can see how they are healthy. They cannot get sufficient food, that is different thing. That is maladministration. Kṛṣṇa has given sufficient food for all the people of the world. Somewhere the foodstuff is being thrown in the sea, and somewhere people are starving. This is want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If a man becomes, if the president becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious president, then he'll think "This foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's. It is not our result. So Kṛṣṇa claims all living entities as His sons. So we are sons of God, and the Indians or other poverty-stricken countries, they are also sons of God. So if we have got enough, why not send there?" Why you are putting the foodstuff, which no human being can produce, you are throwing it in the water. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness education is greatly needed for human society.

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:
Prabhupāda: The planets are seen, the suns and stars, like that. So the two souls, Jaya and Vijaya, they are coming on this earth. That is shown in this picture. Now they came as demons because they had to fight with the Supreme Lord. The devotees will not fight. The devotees are servitors, but the atheists, the demons, they are always inimical to the Personality of Godhead. That is the nature. Demonic nature means they do not believe in God. "Oh, what nonsense, God. I am God." Although he's a dog, he thinks himself, "I am God." That is demonic nature. He is being kicked every minute by the laws of nature, and still, he is superficially thinking that "I am God." God is not so cheap, but they have made to become God is very cheap. If you pay thirty-five dollars to a person, he'll give you a mantra and you become within six months God. This is very nice statement and people will follow. Thousands and thousands will follow. But if you say, "Oh, you have to undergo much austerity, penance, regulation and tapasya," "Oh, this is botheration. We shall enjoy material life, and the same time become God." So these cheap things are exhibited by the demons. And when a demon is born, the natural disturbances are there. When there are natural disturbances, we must know that there is some demonic principle. That is stated in all Vedic scriptures. At the present moment, because we are increasing daily demonic principles, or demonic population is increasing, we are meeting with so many disturbances. So when these two demons, playing the part of demons, they also took birth on this planet, there were so many disturbances and this picture is there, that so many disturbances are being created at the time of their birth. Next picture? Ah. So when the demons became full-fledged human being, got this body... Demons and... There are two classes of men. One is called demon, and other is called demigod, or god.
Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Ho, ho! (devotees laugh) That is not possible.

Janārdana: That's what he's asking now.

Prabhupāda: (break) Because in the winter season they don't get tenants?

Janārdana: Well, a few will get easily tenants, but he wants to get a tenant for the whole winter. And September is a month when there is the best chance for getting a tenant because that's when all the student population comes back into town and this is a student district. And so in the month of September he would like to either get a tenant for the whole year or leave the place open. But maybe I can persuade him because it is not very easy to find a suitable apartment for only one month in Montreal.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...pare dhana parke diye nija labha cora: "I borrowed something from you, and I lend him. He does not pay me, and I become thief."

Janārdana: Yes.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: O.K., but now in America there is a bankruptcy of sense satisfaction. Everybody agrees.

Prabhupāda: Must be there. Must be there.

Allen Ginsberg: Everybody agrees that our civilization has come to the end of its possibilities materially. So everybody understands that. It's in New York Times editorials as well as in the editorials of ISKCON journals. Both. And there is a population explosion as you've noted and as the middle class has noted. So everybody then is looking for an alternative to material extension.

Prabhupāda: They should inquire about the Absolute Truth.

Allen Ginsberg: Okay. So my original question was: is the complicated ritual and the Sanskrit language...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Now we are placing so many things in English language. Our all books are being published in English. Our magazine is in English.

Allen Ginsberg: But the question is, is the mode of life that you are proposing adaptable to many, many, many people?

Prabhupāda: That I say that is not for many, many people.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: We have to find out if all the...

Prabhupāda: Simply you have to understand that there is nothing material, everything is spiritual. That is required. So long you do not understand that everything is spiritual only, that is our defect.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then even sexuality is spiritual?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said in the Bhagavad-gītā: if you use sexuality for giving birth to nice child, not cats and dogs, that is spiritual. But people are using sexuality for other purposes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, śāstra-viruddho(?), according to religious ritualistic way, if one, when one uses sex life that is (indistinct). That is, therefore in the, according to Vedic system, therefore, having sex life with wife, there is a great ceremony which is called garbhādhāna ceremony, and all the higher caste, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas, śūdra, er vaiśyas especially, they are to observe ten kinds of reformative process. The first process is while giving birth to a child there is a great ceremony, garbhādhāna. So it is not a secret. To beget nice child, then there will be nice population, then there will be peace and prosperity. If you beget cats and dogs, how can you expect peace and prosperity? Living in the same dog society, cat society then there will be peace? No.

Allen Ginsberg: I would rather dogs and cats being Kṛṣṇa's though.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 14, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: I knew a Naga sādhu in Menakanika Ghāṭa named Śaṁbhu-bhakti Baba.

Prabhupāda: Śaṁbhu is another name of Lord Śiva, Śaṁbhu. Svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ (SB 6.3.20). He is called Svayaṁbhuḥ, and Śiva is called Śaṁbhu. Vaiṣṇavānām yathā śaṁbhuḥ. Svayaṁbhur nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kumārāḥ kapilo manuḥ (SB 6.3.20). Kumārāḥ. There is a sampradāya from Kumāra, four Kumāras, brahmacārīs. They were sons of Brahmā. When they were born, Lord Brahmā said that "You now make, marry and produce. We want population." In the creation, in the beginning. So they refused. "Oh, we are not going to marry. We shall remain brahmacārī, devotee." Then Lord Brahmā was angry. "Oh, you are refusing your father's order?" So from when he was angry, his eyes became red. From that, Śiva was born. Therefore his name is Rudra. Rudra means anger. So when Lord Śiva becomes angry, the whole thing is finished.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The first scene should be that Nityānanda Prabhu and Haridāsa Ṭhākura. They were ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu to go every day to, from one neighborhood to another and preach. So one day when they came out they saw at a distant place a crowd. So you have to make scene that a crowded place and these two brothers, Jagāi and Mādhāi, they have pickpocketed somebody and... Because they were debauches, so there was some howling and crowds. Yes. So Nityānanda Prabhu inquired, and people said that "These two brothers, they're born of a very respectable family, but they have now become debauches." So Nityānanda Prabhu, "Oh, they are so fallen? So best thing is to convert them first. Then Lord Caitanya's name will be glorious that He has delivered such rascals." So He went there to save. Then he said, "Who are you?" As soon as they came in, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, chanting, and these brothers said, "Oh, who are you?" "Oh, we are Nityānanda, and he is Haridāsa. We are preaching. You also join with us." So, "Oh get out! Hare Kṛṣṇa, your damn Hare Kṛṣṇa. Get out!" (chuckles) So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was old man, and he was afraid. But Nityānanda was young man so He fled away. Haridāsa Ṭhākura could not go so swift. He said, "My dear Nityānanda, I think today my life is at risk." So anyway, then after they were going away, the crowd dispersed and the brothers were talking. So one brother was talking to the other, "Jagāi, I think that these people very nicely sing. Don't you hear?" "Oh! You are going to be a saṅkīrtana man?" "No, no, no! I am not going to be saṅkīrtana man. Just I am talking about it." So this was their beginning appreciation. Then next day, again in the same place, Nityānanda came, and He requested, "My dear brothers, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So the Mādhāi, no Jagāi, Jagāi was so angry. They were drinking. So here you drink in bottles. They drink in earthen pot. So there was earthen pot. He hurled against His head and there was blood oozing out. So the other brother, Mādhāi said, "Oh, what you are doing? What you are doing? He's innocent." This news was reached to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much angry. He came, "Bring My cakra. I shall kill these rascals immediately." He became so angry. Then Nityānanda Prabhu implored, "My dear brother, why You are very angry? They are the sample of this age. So if You become angry, then whom we are going to deliver? The whole population is full of like Jagāi and Mādhāi. So our preaching is for the most fallen. Why do You remember, why do You forget this? Don't be angry." Then both the brothers, they fell on the feet of Nityānanda. "Please forgive us. We have done wrong. You are so nice people. You are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa so innocent, and we are so..." This is the effect of seeing a pure devotee. Heart becomes soft. This is the association, effect of association.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedic way means they are following principles, regulative principles.

Guest (5): So what principle?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. That is a big principle. But it has been shortened, shortened in this age. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā (CC Adi 17.21). In the Kali-yuga you cannot reform the whole population by any other means except this harer nāma. Therefore we are introducing Hare Kṛṣṇa movement everywhere.

Guest (4): Mahārāja, do the Western and Eastern societies respond differently to this call...

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot say that. Two plus two equal to four everywhere, East and West. There is no difference, East and West. It is scientific. It is vijñaṇa. So when you call of, talk of science, there is no difference of understanding in the East and West. The same thing is understood.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: That never happened.

Prabhupāda: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government. So what you can do? Sayuddhe kriyate rājan sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit. "If you make a dog a king, don't you think that he will still lap the shoes?" You cannot change his habits. Sva... Yasya bhāvasya na sa sudurate kramaḥ. Anyone's habits, even if you give good position, you cannot change it. The example is just like if you make a dog the king, he will immediately come from the throne and bite the shoes. You see? So materially you cannot change. Only by spiritual understanding one can be...

Haṁsadūta: Canakya Pandit... I have see that book, and he says in his book that if a crow sits on a high (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you make a crow... The crow generally sits on the roof of the house, but that does not mean he has become a great man. "How great I am, a very beautiful bird."

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So far I am personally experienced, in our childhood there were not so many problems. Now India is faced with so many problems on account of imitating Western civilization.

Guest: Not simply because of the increased population?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of increased population. This is, I say always, this is foolishness.

Guest: That's foolish?

Prabhupāda: Yes. When you say "increase of population," it is a proposal of foolish persons.

Guest: Oh, so someone, someone who's foolish...

Prabhupāda: No. Even the... Just like the birds and beast, they are also increasing their population. Yes. If you find one hole in the room, millions of ants will come out. So who is giving their food? There are millions of elephants in the forest. Who is giving their food? There are millions and trillions... There are 8,400,000 species of life. Out of that, eight million species are other than human being, and 400,000 species human being. Out of that, civilized persons are very few. And all the problems are in the civilized, so-called civilized population.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, I, I... We are believer in God. You see. So we know God is the original father. He is supplying maintenance for everyone. So there is no question of increasing population. If there is increase of population, God has enough resources to feed them. It is not the question of increasing population. But what is the question of demonic civilization.

Journalist (1): Well, I was going to ask you about that, civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That demonic civilization is creating problems. Not the increase of population. This is not the fact. Now, so far I have studied, that in America, in Africa, in Australia, there are so much vacant places that the present population of the world, if it is increased ten times, still there is enough food...

Journalist (1): And you think there's enough food.

Prabhupāda: There is enough provisions. But we have made artificial divisions. "This is America." The Americans, they went from Europe, and they illegally occupied that place. Now they won't allow anyone to come there. Similarly, the Australians, they won't allow to come there. New Zealand, Africa. Why? Our philosophy: Everything belongs to God, and we are all sons of God. Everyone has got the right to live at the cost of God. This is our philosophy.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): He rejects.

Prabhupāda: Rejects or reaction. Yes. Protest, rejection. So before this protest and rejection and reaction, if the leaders of the society become cool-headed, that "Actually God is proprietor of everything. Everyone is son of God; so everything, property of God, must be enjoyed by everyone," this if the leaders only think, then everything will be all right. There is no question of increase of population. There is enough food. In America there is so excessive food that they throw away. They throw away. And they forbid, "Don't produce more." Why? Produce more. Distribute more. That is civilization.

Journalist (1): Yes. I know you define that as civilization. It's just, I was trying to suggest that some societies, and indeed, some individual personalities, are avaricious seemingly by nature. How do you... Well, graft and greed and...

Revatīnandana: Sometimes, that is their natural position.

Prabhupāda: It is a disease. Disease. Lust and greediness. There are three qualities in the world, material world. One is called sattva-guṇa, one is called rajo-guṇa, another is called tamo-guṇa. Goodness. Rajo-guṇa is passion, and tamo-guṇa is darkness. So at the present moment these two guṇas, qualities, darkness and passion are prevalent. Goodness gone. Goodness gone. And the darkness and passion, the symptoms are greediness and lust. People are being educated to become greedy and lusty. That's all. Nobody is being educated to become good. So what is the use of these rascal universities? If they are producing greedy and lusty people, then what is the use of education? Vidyā dadāti namratā. Education means everyone should be gentleman. That is education. And if you produce lusty and greedy people there is no... This is animal education. The animals are lusty and greedy.

Conversation with Journalists -- August 18, 1971, London:

Journalist (1): What I'm suggesting is, I mean trying to suggest is that for a large number of people...

Prabhupāda: Well, large number... Large number... When you speak of something good, you cannot expect many. Just like if you want to sell diamond, you cannot expect that the whole population of England will purchase it. When there is question of diamond, the customer also must be very rich. Similarly, to understand God is not so difficult, or, easy job. Only the fortunate, pious, nice people can understand God. Not ordinary...

Journalist (1): And only get to work at it, find the time to try it. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: But we are giving facilities to everyone to understand God. That is our mission.

Journalist (1): But it does require a certain price for them to pay as individuals.

Prabhupāda: No price. Simply to become sincere.

Journalist (1): To sincerely try to find Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are sincerely anxious to know God, there is no difficulty. There is no difficulty. Tatra laulyam eka-mūlyam. One must be very much anxious that "I must know God." Then God is revealed. There is no question of paying so much money. Our transaction in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is no monetary transaction. I did not pay anything to them, neither they are paying to me. It is a question of understanding.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: They were saying also that in this age, particularly now, there is a great fear of loving someone or something on the part of the large population. They think that by...

Prabhupāda: There is no real love. There is expectation of being frustrated in love.

Dr. Weir: Rebuffed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rebuffed. So therefore they're...

Dr. Weir: Terrified, actually.

Prabhupāda: So because everything in this material world is the perverted reflection therefore we sometimes love somebody and we become frustrated. So therefore others see that this man has loved that girl and he's now frustrated, "Oh, why shall I love?" That is due to frustration. But there is a perfectional stage. There is a perfectional stage, therefore we say it is perverted reflection. Just like our Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa—that is the perfectional stage of love. Rādhārāṇī is a young girl and Kṛṣṇa is a young boy. There is love. So originally this love between young boy and girl is there but that is in perfect stage. Here in this material world, the same thing is pervertedly reflected. Therefore it is imperfect. So we have come to the perfectional stage, not be afraid and give it up-frustration. But, love is there. But there is a perfectional stage of love, we have to learn that.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Śyāmasundara: Shall I turn this off, this fan? It's cool now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, he'll do. Where is Nanda Kumāra? He can do. (break) ...is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The exact Sanskrit word for liberation is called mukti. So that mukti is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). One should stop doing all nonsense, and he must be situated in his original position. But this is also more embarrassing because nobody knows what is his original position. And how to act properly. Muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. People are generally acting differently. But they do not know what is differently and what is properly. So much ignorant are the modern population about their life. It is very, very awkward position. They do not know.

Bob: (break) ...who is honest?

Prabhupāda: But he does not know what is honesty. How he can be honest? If you know what is honesty, then you can become honest. But you do not know what is honesty. What is honesty? First of all explain.

Bob: Honesty is doing what you really feel is right.

Prabhupāda: Then a thief is feeling that "I must steal to provide my children. It is right." Does it mean that he's honest? Everyone thinks... The butcher, he thinks, "It is my life. I must cut throat of the animals daily." Just like that, what is that, vyādha, vyādha... When Nārada Muni met him?

Room Conversation with John Griesser (later initiated as Yadubara Dasa) -- March 10, 1972, Vrndavana:

Śyāmasundara: He will ring as soon as it comes. He telephoned it is on its way. It should be here any moment.

Prabhupāda: They are so slow. They do not understand the spiritual value of life, and simply they are satisfied with something hodgepodge, that's all. The entire population of the present-day world. Just like the hippies. There are so many hippies. They want something spiritual, but no clear... Something hodgepodge, that's all.

Yadubara: Has this happened before, the material wealth that we have now? Has it happened in past ages?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yadubara: Technological advancement, scientific?

Prabhupāda: All scientific. As this is winter season, so there will be a summer season. Anyone can say that after two months there will be summer season. Similarly, these ages are also, what is called, changing. So now it is Kali-yuga. After this Kali-yuga, there will be Satya-yuga. Cycle. So everything is happening. When there is winter season, everyone feels cold. So there is no question of asking. The particular type of age and its reaction of the quality of the nature, it will be there. So as there are many Kali-yugas, so it is to be understood that many times these things happened, and many times again will happen. Seasonal flowers, fruits. In the past, there were many times all those flowers and fruits, and in the future also they will appear. What is the difficulty to understand? But if in all these changing circumstances, if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then your position becomes transcendental. You are no more subjected to all this changing process. So that opportunity is in the human life. It doesn't matter whether he is in the Kali-yuga or Satya-yuga. Because he has got this human form of life, he must be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then his problem is solved. So you have to preach like this, that we are giving the best human welfare activities to utilize this human form of life.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Sudāmā: In Russia?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are advertising equal facility to everyone, to the worker. The worker is still working. They are going, still walking on the street to go to the factory. So in this way the whole civilization is going on simply by bluffing. And because men are made śūdra class, they are believing. They are accepting this bluff. This is the position. Besides that, if you... Even if you are able to give everyone nice buildings and nice motor car... Already a few motor cars you have got, there is scarcity of space. From practical point of view. 99% of the population, they do not possess. Or say 50%. So already 50% men possessing motor cars, it has created problem. Where to park the motor car? How to supply petrol.

Śyāmasundara: In America now practically everyone has a house and a car. But now the problem is no one wants to work.

Prabhupāda: That's it. (laughs) Just see. And he is satisfied to remain as urchin, the hippies.

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They feel pleasure to remain as an urchin.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Śyāmasundara: Someone has built in front of him.

Pradyumna: He had view over whole city. This was the biggest building, I think, and he said he had view everywhere. Now someone built one right up, right next to him.

Bhūrijana: In the United States, the most amazing thing is that everyone is envious. The general population is envious of the hippies because they all want to do that. The ones who are working so hard, they want to be the ones who are just getting fed and do nothing and enjoy sex. But then when the hippies have it, they say bad things about them.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not...

Bhūrijana: The advancement of civilization is leading to just sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material civilization means sense gratification. That's all.

Bhūrijana: So the hippies have this sense gratification and all the people who are working so hard, they are envious of them, and they use that for their advertising.

Prabhupāda: We say in our śāstras that this sense gratification facility is there to the hogs and dogs, better sense gratification. If you have to enjoy sex life, you'll have to find out some room. Either you go to a hotel or have your own apartment, otherwise you cannot have sex life on the street, although you are too much lusty. But you have to arrange for it. But the dogs and hogs, they have no such restriction. Immediately "Come on. Let us enjoy." So they are better, in better position for sense gratification.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Dai Nippon representative: Even you catch cold, you don't go to, you don't consult with doctor, medical doctor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population (break) ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: There are some special vegetables for the Buddhists also. Vegetable meat.

Prabhupāda: Vegetable meat?

Dai Nippon representative: Vegetable meat for Buddhists.

Prabhupāda: Oh, vegetable meat. Yes. Yes, Buddhist, I know that. They are strictly vegetarian, those who are strict followers. So now we have to go to some train?

Karandhara: Are there any other points?

Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct)

Karandhara: Yes. (indistinct) ...on this point. Is there any...?

Dai Nippon representative: Yes, well, at present also, (indistinct) we are going to open our liaison office in Los Angeles.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following. Gradually they will also become student. So it is a very important movement, scientific movement.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Your real dimension is mentioned there that you are a spiritual atom. The measurement is one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. That is the seed, or basic principle. Now, on that small particle of spirit soul we have developed this body. We have got human bodies, other has got the elephant body, other has got the mountainous body, but this is external. The real seed is that one ten-thousandth part of the hair. Similarly, as you have developed this material body under different consciousness, similarly when we give up the material connection we shall develop our spiritual body, and in that spiritual body we shall be able to enter the kingdom of God, back to home, back to Godhead. This is the position. This body you have to give up, today or tomorrow or one hundred years after. You have to give it up. The Bhagavad-gītā says after giving up this body, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), after giving up this body he does not accept any more material body. Then what happens to him? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), he comes to Me. So "He comes to Me" means just like in your country one who comes to you becomes citizen. He must have some particular qualities or conditions fulfilled, then he will be accepted as citizen or immigrant. Similarly, if we want to go back to home, back to Godhead, then we must develop our dormant spiritual qualities, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is the training period for going back to home, back to Godhead. So that after giving up this body or after this time's death, others who are dying they do not know what next life they are getting. They, although they are proud of education, but they do not discuss what is the constitutional position of the soul, how he is transferring from one body to another, how it is to be done. This science is unknown to the modern education. Is it not? They do not know. They simply speculate. That is the defect of modern educational system, and actually everyone is seeking for spiritual emancipation. Therefore in your country, in spite of so many big, big universities, you are producing hippies, hopeless population. Am I saying right or not? Your are university teacher. I have seen in so many universities.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That Singapore (indistinct) enter.

Śyāmasundara: They wouldn't even let you enter.

Devotee (3): I think that his point, I think we spoke about this in Manila, was that anywhere in the world, in, as a general policy, from what I've experienced is that if one or two people are sent to an area, or are in an area and they are given full authority to try to get that population to engage in bhakti-yoga, engage in this process, that that gradual development with the local people, that that has more effect than...

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, it's more successful.

Devotee (3): ...than if we bring in a big party and try to do a big thing. And then, then the person has to get strong, who's doing it. If I have to go somewhere, then I have to get strong for myself, I have to start from scratch.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, I know the difficulty they're having, sannyāsīs have here, because many of these devotees think it's more like a tour, vacation, to come to India. They don't have to follow the rules and regulations...

Devotee: Right.

Śyāmasundara: ...they're only here temporarily. They're just passing through. So it's very difficult, I know, but still we have to try to train somehow...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we cannot establish very big establishment. Because they come like a tourist.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: But that is not advancement. That is wasting time. Suppose primitive man, he has got also sensual engagement. Does the primitive man has no sex life? He has got his woman. He has got sex life. The dog has got sex life. The cat has got sex life. You have got sex life. And because you have your sex life nicely dressed, you are advanced? This is foolishness. We have to see the result. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. These four things, eating, sleeping, sex life and defence, even you'll find in the birds and beasts. And you are, if you are engaged in these four things, in so-called scientific way, then where is your advancement? When death will come, your science will not save you. As the bird will not be saved, you'll not be saved. Then where is your advancement? You are going on the motor car, say, twenty miles. One bird can fly fifty miles. Even he's more expert. I have seen in the ship, the skylark they go equal speed. The ship is running on, twenty-five miles speed or thirty miles. They're going. So where is your expert? By nature, it is expert. Just like these dogs, they are jumping with great force in the ocean and they'll come back; similarly you also go with your surf, and again come back. Where is the difference between this dog and you? So you have to compare that where, where is your advancement of knowledge? Advancement of knowledge means to mitigate, minimize miseries of life. That is called advancement of knowledge. But you... The real miseries of life is birth, death, old age and disease. You cannot do anything. So where is your advancement of knowledge? The scientists cannot stop death, cannot stop birth. They are inventing so many chemical contraceptive methods. But the statistic is population is increasing. Even they're unsuccessful in this account. The statistics is that every minute or second, three persons are increasing all over the world. Where is your contraceptive? You cannot check even birth. Birth, de ... and Bhagavad-gītā says: "These are real problems, birth, death, old age and disease." So what you have done about these things? We have to see. Then we can accept that you are advanced.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The woman population is greater everywhere, and if they have no husband, they're very sorry. I have studied in this country. They're very unhappy without husband. Therefore I introduced this marriage in our society. Now in our society see all the women with children, how happy they are.

Brahmānanda: Oh yes.

Prabhupāda: They have got Kṛṣṇa, they have got husband, they have got children. Now, happy they are. They're working hard for beauty of the home, for the temple. And now last night that Mukunda's cousin sister came. How unhappy she is.

Brahmānanda: Yes. You could also see the child.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: The difference between that child and our children.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: You could see immediately.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, that girl was Mukunda's...?

Prabhupāda: Cousin sister. Without husband, woman is very, very unhappy. Therefore according to Vedic system the father has got a very responsible duty to get the daughter married. It is a responsibility of the father. In the absence of father, elder brother. Now the scientists have given them contraceptives. Don't marry and use contraceptive. This is scientific advancement. And the contraceptive user of girls, they're never beautiful. Natural beauty... Natural beauty's lost. Did you mark it? Between a woman having natural children, her beauty's better than the girl using contraceptives. It is natural. As soon as you check natural system, you become in difficulty. The... Still the system is current. Kṣatriyas, kings, when they are married... You have seen, Kṛṣṇa's father's marriage... So many women also were given.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Yes, in charity.

Prabhupāda: Because always women population is greater than the man. So those who are kings, they could maintain more than one wife. So not only one wife, another three dozen maid-servants. They are freely mixing with king. They got also children. But they were not, I mean to say, eligible for throne. Only the married wife's son. This is, this was the system. Just like Vidura. Vidura happened to be a son of such maid-servant. So she had, he had no claim on the throne. Dāsī-putra. They were called dāsī-putras. They were maintained. Just like in royal family, but they have no claim on the throne. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are two scientists working on how to make...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How to make chemicals for contraceptive. One is in Stanford. His name is Carl Geraldsey. And one is in Harvard. His name is Corey, E.J. Corey. They are quite famous now.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very famous now.

Prabhupāda: Because they gave contraceptives?

Morning Walk -- May 1, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot enjoy anything. You have to accept everything as prasādam. First of all you take sanction from the proprietor. Then you he will give... That is your business. Just like if I want to use this land, I have to take permission from the government, that "I want this land. Give me permission." So when government gives you permission you can use. Otherwise you will be criminal. You cannot say, "Oh, there are so much land, let me encircle it with my fence and I live there." No. Immediately criminal. You cannot do anything as you like with this ocean. Can you do? No you have to take permission from the government. Just like the fishing boats, they have got government permission. Otherwise they cannot. Therefore in the Īśopaniṣad it is said, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). Tena tyaktena. "When it is sanctioned, when it is given to you, then you enjoy." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. "Do not touch anyone's property." This is Vedic injunction. So if everything belongs to God, how you can touch it without His permission? But they are rascals. They do not know who is God, where is God, how to take permission. They do not know. Therefore they become criminals. They are suffering. Encroaching upon God's property and therefore they are suffering. All these things are stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything belongs to God, and because we are sons of God, we can use the father's property. But not more than what I require. Just like in a family everything is father's property, and if you eat more, all the good things in the family, that is not allowed. You must take what the mother or the father gives you. That is your business. Similarly everything is God's property. Everyone, even the birds, beasts, everyone has right to use the father's property. Just like the birds. They will use. Just like they are picking up the small fishes. So as much they require, they are allowed, "Take it." But they are not making any stock for speculation. Man does that. As soon as there is some good harvest, ah, immediately they... (break)... problem. If everyone only takes as much he requires, there is no problem in the world. But he wants to take more. Just like you Americans, you have covered so many thousands of miles. And you don't allow anyone. "No, you cannot enter. Here is gun." What is this nonsense? It is God's property. Why do you disallow others. Let them come. So there is no question of over-population. There are so much land in Australia, in Africa, here in America, that ten times of the present population can be provided. God has provided. But these rascals will not allow. So there is overpopulation in India, in China and other places, and there is problem. They are trying to occupy more land but you will not allow. Therefore war, there is war. So we create problems.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal. And who exalts them? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: other lower animals like dogs, the hogs, śva-viḍ-varāha, camel and ass. So one big animal is being praised by these kinds of animals. So all the population without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have been described as dogs, hogs, camel and ass. So when they vote for another animal, big animal, so this is their position. They are big animal, praised by the dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not praised by any intelligent man. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. They are animals. These animals, they do not know the actual fact, and they are passing on as leaders, professors, scientists. Why they should be allowed? There must be some protest against these men. They have no real knowledge.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Their point being to reduce the population, not to increase.

Prabhupāda: But population is reducing, it is increasing. You take the statistics, the world population is increasing, it is not decreasing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is increasing, but not as fast as the...

Prabhupāda: Anyway it is increasing; it is not decreasing. And besides that, there is no such restriction among the birds and beasts. How you can make more for... A cat, a dog, a hog, this birth—one dozen children at a time. And twice in a year. So increasing population is more there, they have got more capacity. So they are not fasting.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are saying that because of our medical science, the number of deaths are decreasing. The number of births are increasing and death the rate is decreasing because of medical science.

Prabhupāda: Due to medical science, death is...?

Brahmānanda: Decreasing. People are living longer.

Prabhupāda: It is all nonsense. Who lives now hundred years. Thirty, forty, fifty, finished. It is another nonsense. At the present age, does anybody live like his grandfather? No. No. That's not a fact. At the present moment the maximum years-eighty years. Formerly they were living a hundred years. My grandmother lived for ninety-six years.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Staten Island.

Prabhupāda: Crossing by ferry, one hour. Then waiting for bus, another hour. Then going to the office. Then after office, they're coming back. Again going. Whole day, they're dependent on everything. That is the condition in New York. It is to be supposed: the most advanced city. The same thing is everywhere. People are becoming dependent, śūdra, just like dogs. A dog, unless he gets a nice master, he's not happy. So at the present moment, all the population, just like the cats and dogs, they're dependent. They are not intelligent. Intelligence means he must be independent. That is intelligence. And people are struggling for independence. That is their motive. Everyone is struggling hard for independence. Because that is the culmination of intelligence. So our problem is that we do not know what we are. Neither we know how to get out of the miserable condition of life. Therefore we have no intelligence. We are like cats and dogs. This is the conclusion. What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Guest (1): I couldn't follow you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (1): I haven't followed you.

Prabhupāda: No, what is your opinion, my description of intelligence and not, no intelligence?

Guest (1): I think you're right.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (laughter)

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: They were just working with nature, not against nature.

Prabhupāda: Just like so much field is there. You, if you take the all village people, you can produce enough food for them in this village. So much land is lying there. Simply you keep cows and till ground, get your food grains. Enough. And if you take the whole planet as it is, you can feed ten times population. There is so much prospect. Australia, Africa. So much vacant land. You can produce enough quantity of milk and food grains.

David Lawrence: Yes, I think this was the clinching argument in this program...

Prabhupāda: But they are doing... What they are doing? They're taking the milk and slaughtering the animals and sending to foreign countries for trade. New Zealand, Australia, they are doing like that. Just see.

David Lawrence: Or they're throwing down the surplus milk down coal mines.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

David Lawrence: They throw surplus milk down coal mines.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation with Malcolm -- July 18, 1973, London:

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that, you were lecturing that, that unless one performs the proper saṁskāras for the children, they will become degraded. They will not follow the regulative principles and such... They become unwanted population?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In material world we have got so many obligations.

Paramahaṁsa: For example, in devotee families, if we perform the proper principles in raising children...

Prabhupāda: No, your, your, your function is very simple. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious, and train your children in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.

Paramahaṁsa: But there's always a chance that they may not as well.

Prabhupāda: That chance is also to you also. Māyā is always there. But our duty should be like that. You become Kṛṣṇa conscious and raise your children to that standard. (indistinct) Just like we are teaching in Dallas. There is nothing extraordinary. The children are there, they're learning how to read, how to write, at the same time rising early in the morning, attending maṅgala-ārātrika, joining in the saṅkīrtana, playing mṛdaṅga, dancing, taking prasādam. (Aside:) That's all right. By such training, automatically they'll be Kṛṣṇa conscious. And then all your duties are complete. If you make him Kṛṣṇa conscious, then all your duty is finished.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Haṁsadūta: Such a simple point. If a cow is living by God's grass...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: He said only grass. It doesn't cost anything.

Prabhupāda: Grass is grown by God, and she is eating. What is your problem?

Haṁsadūta: Their argument is that there'll be over-population.

Prabhupāda: Now, you kick them on their face. Oh, what is this? This is not sweet-rice. It is some...?

Haṁsadūta: Cuddy.

Prabhupāda: Cuddy, cuddy.

Haṁsadūta: They always argue that "In India they should kill the cows and eat them, and then they would not starve" because they're so foolish.

Prabhupāda: You have got your natural teeth? Your teeth?

Lord Brockway: No, not natural.

Prabhupāda: Not natural.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: But he says but this is a fact, this overpopulation.

Prabhupāda: That is another wrong impression. Foolish impression. The whole world has got sufficient place to produce food for ten times the population as it is now. The Americans, they throw grains in the water. So if they send the excess grain to the place where grain is not sufficient, then it is God conscious-ness. If the so-called overpopulation is spread all over the world, there is sufficient place in Africa, Australia, America. The overpopulation can grow their food in these vast uncultivated land.

Yogeśvara: He says that only resolves the problem for a few years.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. We don't believe it. That is not...

Yogeśvara: Why. Why is it that this program...?

Prabhupāda: Why do they think that it is for few years?

Yogeśvara: He's thinking that the Earth is not capable of providing enough...

Prabhupāda: What does he know about Earth? His knowledge is not sufficient. He, he's speaking like a woman who saw in the marketplace in the morning thousands of people have gathered, and she began to cry: "Where I shall give place to these men?" So her son came: "My dear mother, don't cry. You come in the evening. We shall find some solution." So when she came in the evening, there was nobody.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: You can translate that story? (French) (to Prabhupāda:) She went there to buy her foodstuffs?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Yogeśvara: (French)

Prabhupāda: So you are thinking in that way. "How I shall provide this population?" That is the old woman's crying. Without sufficient knowledge. We do not believe in this, all rascaldom. We believe in God. If God can create... just like animals. They do not cry. They're increasing. The hogs and dogs, even lower animals... This is demonic economy. A man is holding thousands of acres of land and he's thinking of overpopulation. Why not he distributes the thousands of acres of land to the people? They would produce their own food. That is the, that is the defect of so-called socialism. But here we give a right type of socialism.

Yogeśvara: He thinks he has a fairly clear idea of what our program is now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Anna Conan Doyle: He's not trained.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... So if we make our living condition very simple, there is enough time, enough time. But we don't say that you go back to the primitive stage of life. That is not possible. We simply request that wherever you are, simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no difficulty. Then everything will be clear. And we are not charging anything for that, that: "You give me so many pounds. I'll give you a mantra." Not like that. (break) There is no necessity. Unnecessarily they are killing animals, and becoming sinful. So they have created their own field of activities just to become bereft of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Formerly, in the human society, there was no slaughterhouse. If they wanted to kill one animal, they went to the forest or anywhere. Kill one animal and eat it. But here it is now regular business. Somebody's supplying cows regularly by increasing livestock. That has become his business. And somebody's killing. So we have invented so many things like that, simply for sinful activities. How we can become happy? It is not possible. So many big, big factories for producing beer and liquor. But they have become accustomed to this. And the net result is now we increasing the hippie population. This irresponsible life is producing children, most irresponsible, brainless. Yes. But they have no eyes to see, that "How we are degrading. This is our children." I have been to Amsterdam. One park, there is...

Bhagavān: Fondel Park.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: It's the Rāma-rājya ideal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Strong government means that, that government should be very, very vigilant that citizens are doing their duty properly. That is the first duty. They should be given all protection. At the same time... Just like the father gives protection to the children, at the same time, very strict that they are morally and disciplinary, they are going, coming out nice. That is father's duty. It is government's duty. If the father thinks, "Let my son go to hell. I don't care. I give them some food. That's all." Is that father's duty? No. Father's duty, to arrange for their food, for their dress, for their shelter, at the same time, to see that they are growing nice, not rascals. That is father's duty. Similarly, government's duty is that. We see from Vedic śāstra government duty is that. Otherwise why there is need of government? Government... Now it is government. But formerly it was the king. The king must be representative of God. Because... Who is God? God means nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām, eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kaṭhopaniṣad. So God, what is God? God means He's also person. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He is also eternal, He's also cognizant. We are also eternal, we are also cognizant. But what is the difference between God and we? The difference is He maintains us. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Bahu-vacanam, nityānām, cetanānām, this is bahu-vacanam. And nityaḥ, cetanaḥ, eka-vacanam. So what is the difference between this singular number and plural number? The singular number is maintaining the plural number. Eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. So God is maintaining everyone. So difference is that He is so powerful, He can maintain every living entity. He's maintaining the elephants in Africa, who eat, at a time, forty kilos. He's supplying food. There's no scarcity of food in the jungle for the elephants. Neither there is scarcity... In the hole of your room, you'll find hundreds and thousands of ui. Who is feeding them, within the hole? Unless they're eating, sleeping, the same thing are there. How they are living very nicely? But who is giving them food within the hole? A small hole. You did not provide that hole. You did not provide their food. But there are hundreds and millions of ants. They're living there within the hole very happily. Sometimes they come out. We see: "Oh, wherefrom so many hundreds coming?" So eko bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. That is God. He's supplying food. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. Out of that, 400,000 are human beings. Out of that, many are uncivilized. The uncivilized aborigines live in the jungle. They have no economic problem. They're also human being. They never come to city for food. They are maintaining themselves. The elephants are maintaining. The ants are maintaining. Why the civilized, a few men, they have got so problem, so many problems? Because they... We are not the only living entities. There are 8,400,000 different forms of living entities. They're all being maintained by the Supreme Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya mūrtayaḥ sambhavanti yāḥ: (BG 14.4) "As many forms are there, in all different species," ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā, "I am the Father." The father maintains the sons, as we see actually. He's maintaining. So why you are so much...? Our father is rich. He's not poor. God is not poor. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. Six kinds of opulence fully. So why are you talking of this over-population, scarcity of food? Why? Actually the father is God. He's maintaining. And factually we see how many human beings, civilized human beings, are there. The other living beings are many hundred thousand times bigger quantity. If they can be maintained by God, what we have done, that He'll not maintain us? He'll maintain us. He's maintaining. So many people they say, "India is starving." I am Indian. I never see any man starving and died. I've never seen. This is simply advertisement. What is your opinion?

Ambassador: There is poverty.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But the interest... The religious interest in Russia is, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the, the leaders are not...

Prabhupāda: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.

Dr. Hauser: Although Nixon says, in every television speech, that he is a God believer.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Hauser: Nixon says, at least, that he is a God believer.

Prabhupāda: That is his politics.

Dr. Hauser: Yeah.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first-class. Now it is not available. And this is advancement of civilization.

Guest (1): The population has increased so much.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not the question, population. Population was... Formerly one man used to beget one hundred children. From Mahābhārata we understand that Dhṛtarāṣṭra, his name is mentioned because he was king. That means at that time people were able to beget one hundred children. And who is begetting one hundred children now? One, two, three, four, that's all. How the population can be increased now? It is all bogus propaganda.

Guest (1): What do you think is the solution of these difficulties?

Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Guest: Such a vicious circle. Higher the prices, higher the wages, higher the wages, higher the prices with less production. If there are five loaves and people have 10 rupees they'll buy five loaves. And if they have 20 rupees also they'll buy five loaves because there are not 10 loaves.

Prabhupāda: No, no this high price is due to (indistinct). They are holding stock.

Guest: That is not sufficient for all these people, population.

Prabhupāda: No, if you pay them sufficient.

Guest: As it is the stock is so limited.

Lady Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (speaking in background)

Guest: You see what happens.... Suppose you see in a house there are four liters of milk, you see, and each one is given 100 rupees, you see, then they will buy each one, let's say one liter. And if they are given 200 rupees the one who has got 200 rupees, they get one for also 200 rupees, you see? So what is happening is people who have got black money, they want the things for themselves, there is a price there.

Prabhupāda: How they get black market?

Guest: No, because stock being limited. Suppose a medicine is being wanted, a man is willing to give anything for that medicine.

Prabhupāda: So far I have got experience the stock is available if you pay for it.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: There will not be any scarcity of food. (indistinct)

Guest: Yes, if we work hard.

Prabhupāda: Not work hard, everyone should produce. But who's producing. Suppose in Delhi, such a big city. What is the population?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the population? Tell me.

Guest: About ah, four million.

Prabhupāda: Four million. And what is the population of Bombay?

Guest: About six and a half million, seven million.

Prabhupāda: Seven million. And what is Calcutta?

Guest: About seven and a half million.

Prabhupāda: And we say you take.... And what is the population of India?

Guest: Five ah, nearly six hundred million now.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred million.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Guest: Five hundred fifty, six hundred million.

Prabhupāda: So if you take all these city population it will come to three hundred million. They are doing nothing for producing.

Guest: No, they are producing cotton, textiles.

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but you cannot eat (indistinct).

Lady Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: You can produce bolt and nut but you cannot eat. So this is going on. Formerly everyone was in village. Everyone was interested to produce food. Everyone had got land. Even the brāhmaṇas they were not working. The śūdras would work and they produce half and half. Government would tax only 25%.

Guest: Hm.

Prabhupāda: That would cover everything—shelters, income tax, this tax, that tax, also. And if you not produced anything there was no tax. This was the system, everyone was happy. Here one side there is no production, there is scarcity. Another side government taxes 89, 95%.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Yes, but it's not recognized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I say, "Chant sixteen rounds." If you do not do it. What can I do? That is your fault.

Satsvarūpa: If God were to force us, there'd be no love.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. Force is not good. Force is there. Force is there. The māyā is another force.

Prajāpati: There's a large segment of the population today who say, "We only speak about God in terms of our own relationships with each other." So one group, they say, "This is all male chauvinism, to say God is a male. Actually, we are saying now the women should be elevated so God is woman for us." They say like that.

Prabhupāda: God... But uh... Well, that's all right. God is male and female both. God, our God, sometimes He takes the form of female, Mohinī-mūrti. Mohinī-mūrti. But comparatively studying, God is puruṣa, male.

Umāpati: He's always a potency.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. He is potent.

Umāpati: He's always the supreme potency.

Prabhupāda: He is potential. That means you manufacture God. Sometimes you manufacture God as male, sometimes you manufacture God is female. Is it not? Is it not your theory? As you say, "Now we accept female as God," that means you manufacture God. Is it not?

Prajāpati: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardan: Can a person who eats meat obtain a human birth? Or he must be put back into animal species, meat-eaters?

Prabhupāda: No, he'll become animal, and he'll be killed.

Bali Mardana: So that means practically all the population.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That animal will become man, and he'll kill him. He'll become animal. This is karma-bandhana. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Yajñārthe, in the yajña, sometimes there is recommendation of animal sacrifice. Except that, you are bound up. You will have to be killed.

Yaśomatīnandana: The meat-eating also leads to many other sinful activities too, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes, naturally. Meat-eating means he's demon, and demon means he'll act in so many ways, demonic way, and he'll be complicated, one after another.

Yaśomatīnandana: These humanists, Prabhupāda, may try to make some...

Prabhupāda: This is humanism. We are trying to save the human being from falling down. This is real humanism, if there is meaning of humanity. We are trying to save everyone, that "Don't fall down. Take full advantage of this human form of life and go back to home, back to Godhead. Be happy." This is humanity. Except this, all bogus, humbug. Except this, all bogus humbug.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: They want to control the process because...

Prabhupāda: Why, why you should control? Why?

Karandhara: That is the reason of their research.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Control the process. They cannot control. They are trying to control to minimize population, but the record is that every minute there is three men increasing. Every minute. The population increasing. It is not diminishing. In spite of their so many contraceptive methods, killing, abortion, the population is increasing. You cannot stop it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They'll say... They give the credit to the medical science. They say...

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is that credit?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Medical science has advanced so much that now people are...

Prabhupāda: Medical science has given the chance of committing sinful activities. That's all. And the medical man and the man who is committing such sinful activities, they will suffer. This is the advantage of their so-called medical science. They do not know. They have, they have sanctioned this abortion, medical science. Means they have given chance to commit sinful activities. That's all. So so many rascaldom is going on all over the world, and we, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, wants to stop all this nonsense, and save the humanity from going down to the animal kingdom. That is our program. They are... They have become just like animals, and next life they are going to be animals. That law they do not know. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). They do not believe in dehāntara-prāptiḥ. That is their nonsense. And now, what kind of dehāntara, change of body? That also they do not know. That is also going to happen. If you become like cats and dogs, you get cats and dogs life. There is nature's law. But they do not know. They're misguiding simply. And if it is so that I have got now nice, human form of body, and next life I'm going to be a dog, is that advancement of civilization? Simply cheating. Everyone is cheating.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. Otherwise, simply by name, so-called sacred thread holder will not do. Then again the same brahminical class as in India. (break) ...Paraśurāma. You know Paraśurāma?

Karandhara: The incarnation?

Prabhupāda: Ah. Because the kṣatriyas were not doing exactly, he twenty-one times massacred them. Finish! And those who, kṣatriyas, fled from India, they came to Europe. So the European means they are coming from the kṣatriya descendant, but they have forgotten their own culture. Indo-aryan. (break) ...strong, then there is no doubt he will be able to control all over the world. That's a fact. But we must keep ourself spiritually strong. Āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā. Just Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was behaving in His life and that He was teaching. (break) ...behave like spiritual man. Then you can teach. If you don't behave, then how you can teach? (break) ...was brought here. It is more important than the Ganges. (break) One side, there is unrestricted sex life, and other side, stop population. But they cannot take this restricted sex life. Only fault! So if you restrict your sex life that "I shall not beget more than one child or two child," then where is the question of this abortion and contra...? But they, that they cannot. They will have unrestricted sex life; at the same time, they will check overpopulation.

Prajāpati: They trust the doctors, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the medical men.

Prabhupāda: Whatever... His fault is that "I can restrict. I will not have sex life unless it is needed for begetting children."

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotees: No.

Prabhupāda: If somebody says, "My religion is to cut throat of others, to pickpocket others. That is my religion." Would it be accepted? Why sometimes you are arrested. You say, "My religion is to chant." They will say, "No, you cannot do this. It is disturbance." So "Because it is my religion, it will be accepted," that is not a fact. You must come to philosophy and reasoning: "Why don't you cut throat your... Why don't you send your... You say complain, over-population. Why don't you send the over-population to the slaughterhouse? Why? Why?"

Girirāja: Well, it would be inhuman.

Prabhupāda: Inhuman. And then cutting throat of the cows, that is not human. Is that very good reasoning?

Devotee: They don't think that the cows have souls, many of them.

Prabhupāda: That is their rascaldom. Rascals. Why no soul? What is the symptom of having soul?

Devotee: Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they have no consciousness? Then children? They treat like animals. They have no soul? Then better send all the children to the slaughterhouse. Their, children's flesh is very sweet and palatable.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So which post you are going to contest?

Prajāpati: United States Congress.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Senator?

Prajāpati: Well, congressman. There's two offices of the legislature: the Senate and the House of Representatives. For each state there are two senators, no matter what the population, and for the house of representatives, every so many hundred thousand people, there is one representative.

Prabhupāda: That's like in England, House of Commons. And senator, House of Lords.

Prajāpati: Yes, that's right. (break) ...have been projected. One is that we preach very boldly and hold no bars, make it known completely what our platform is. The other attitude is one of making up propaganda more palatable by saying if elected we will reinstitute prayers into schools and not tell them much more than that.

Prabhupāda: Why in the school? In every home.

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Salt, salt, turned into sand. Salty water, silica. Sodium silicate. Salt is called sodium carbonate?

Bali Mardana: Yes, it is.

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) From any earth you'll find some percentage of salt. (break) ...for increasing population, but we rascals, we have made, "No, you cannot come here. You rot there." This is our civilization. India, China is overpopulated. So if people allow, just like Australia, Africa, and many islands.

Bali Mardana: Russia.

Prabhupāda: Russia is useless.

Bali Mardana: Oh, it's too cold.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for the Russians. But there are so many other islands like this.

Sudāmā: Tahiti.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Sudāmā: Tahiti. Also is... Below here.

Bali Mardana: There are thousands of islands in the Pacific.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Let them come and live here. Produce foodstuffs, have cows, fruits, flowers, live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; but they won't allow. Americans, yes, they have got so much land. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Whatever is Kṛṣṇa's property, you can... You are Kṛṣṇa's son; you can utilize it. But one son is prohibiting, "No, no, you cannot enter here." This is the problem. The so-called nationalism is dangerous. Just see how nice flowers, fruits, plant. Everything is there, complete.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): Swamiji, may I ask one question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): You said this population is increasing. According to Hindu theory, we say that human life is very difficult and you get this human birth after great karmas and good deeds and all that. So this population is increasing and we are putting the birth control; and then the population of beasts and others that, the wild beasts, that is decreasing, although almost it has decreased.

Prabhupāda: But they have no birth control.

Guest (1): No, no, just see. And then you see the population of these, for instance, chickens, pigs, and those, they have increased. So the population of human being that is increasing, is it due to these wild animals and other they have done good deeds, so they are coming up as a human being?

Prabhupāda: First thing is, I am asking you, why you are bothering about the increase of population? First, that is my question. The animals, they do not bother. You are so advanced in knowledge. Why you are bothering? First of all answer this question.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): No, no, but that is...

Prabhupāda: The animals, they have got less intelligence. They never bother themselves, "The population is increasing." And you are advanced animal. Why you are so much bothered?

Guest (1): But that is...

Prabhupāda: Then you are less intelligent than the animals. That is my argument. They are lower animals. They are begetting at one time one dozen children. They are not bothering. Why you are bothering? That means that you are less than the animals. Because you have got so much anxiety, "Why population increasing?" But they are not bothering. So you are less than animals.

Guest (1): No, no, my question is different.

Prabhupāda: That is my answer. Why you are bothering the population increasing? Why you are bothering?

Guest (1): Because they think that the resources...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Some, there is some... There is some reason. But they have no such thing. So therefore they are advanced. They have no such anxiety. You are less than animal.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): No, that's right Swamiji, but what my question is...

Prabhupāda: That is... First answer is this, that you are bothered for increased population, but the animals are not. Therefore they are more advanced than you. They know that there is no botheration. Because in the Vedic injunction it is said, eko yo bahūnāṁ yo vidadhāti kāmān. Now, there are millions of elephants in Africa. Who is feeding them? Who is feeding them? They eat at one time one mound. Where the food is coming from? Why you are bothered? You'll take only one chaṭāka. That means you are godless. You do not know who is supplying your food. You are less than animal. That is my answer.

Guest (1): Swamiji, my question is different.

Prabhupāda: This is answer. You are very much...

Guest (1): No, that is...

Prabhupāda: ...in anxiety.

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: He.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (1): No, but,...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the nature's law. This is the nature's law, that some way or other, by evolutionary process, you come to the human being form, but if you remain as animal, then you go to animal again.

Guest (2): So animal me āpne bolte hai (?).

Prabhupāda: He.

Guest (2): Ācchā. So if population increase...

Prabhupāda: The same example. Suppose by promotion, you come to a very nice post, but if you do not behave well, then you are degraded.

Guest (1): No, that I agree, Swamiji, ke admi yo he, karenge (?), they will go back as human beings. But (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: But, bhāla (Hindi)

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Now, why, why don't you understand.

Mr. Sar: Chance is given to you...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sanskrit name, Sukarṇa. "One who has got good ears." Sukarṇa.

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: No, but local population is also, I mean, a very great...

Prabhupāda: Local population (Hindi)

Devotee: Sorry.

Prabhupāda: Sorry, but why do you come? (pause, Hindi) One feet.

Dr. Patel: Here you see so many people sitting behind.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: This whole coast is being spoiled.

Prabhupāda: This is sea, and that's a canal or a river only, small.

Dr. Patel: They are... So far as the custom hygiene is concerned, I mean, the... We have actually been teaching personal hygiene through religion. This is the only country that...

Prabhupāda: But that is also hygienic. After passing stool, they are taking bath in the river. That is good hygiene.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...that business in your country. What is that? Topless, bottomless?

Devotee: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: No? They want. There is regular business. In India also. In the hotels there are regular business to pick up college girls and enjoyed by the guests. So many things are going on on this basis of sinful activity. All over the world. So they become polluted, all people..., population, then how they can expect good government? Some of them will take the charge of the government, and he's polluted. (pause) Indigestion. You know that? Indigestion.

Devotee: Ha.

Prabhupāda: You have not digested your food. (break) Any carpenter working in... (break) The government was pleased to reply that they're maintaining themselves by selling literature. Similarly, if it comes to the notice of the government that they're maintaining ourselves by production of food, they'll like very much. (break) In your temple.

Devotee: Feeding.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) (break)

Bhagavān: ...the society would go to the gurukula, and there it would be decided what their work would be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all there should be an instructor on the spiritual life, then according to his position... Our spiritual life is meant, we should always remember... But for management we have to make divisions. That is...

Devotee: Actually the whole society could be Vaiṣṇava.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They are śūdras. Little arts and crafts can be trained up to the śūdras. They, at the present moment, they have given too much stress on the arts and crafts.

Yaduvara: Hm. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the whole people, population, is śūdra.

Hṛdayānanda: It is a fact.

Prabhupāda: That is a... That is the difficulty. All people are being drawn by giving them, I mean to say, attraction for high salary, and they are taking so-called technical education, and all of them working in the factory. Nobody's working on the field. They are śūdras. (break)

Hṛdayānanda: ...artist is accepted as a philosopher in life.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: In our society (break) ...accepted (break) ...as a philosopher.

Prabhupāda: Artist?

Hṛdayānanda: Yeah, the artist.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Artist is also business of the śūdra.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: Oh. It's very exciting, Prabhupāda, because all the, at the present time in the...

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that actually, at the present moment, they are śūdras or less than śūdras. They are not human beings. The whole population of the world. It doesn't matter whether it is western or eastern. That is the position. So unless they are trained up, so the society's already in chaos, and it will go on still more in chaos, chaos. It will be hell. How people will live? And these rascals are being elected as government men, and they're only making budget how to tax. So one side, there is no rain; one side, there is no rice, especially in India; and one side, heavy tax. So they'll be all confused. They have already become confused. So in the confusion state it will be very difficult to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. Therefore preliminary help should be given.

Viṣṇujana: Preliminary.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they should not be in chaos and confusion. Otherwise, how the brain will work?

Viṣṇujana: Yes. No one can give rapt attention without peace of mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our main aim is how to give them Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But if they are already disturbed in every respect, then how they'll take it? Therefore we are taking these subjects, to help him to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And this is the method-varṇāśrama.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the moisture? It is clear shine. Where is the moisture? (break) (laughter) It is not fire. It is a brilliant body. It is not fire. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...body of Vivasvān?

Prabhupāda: Whole planet, I mean the population, they're so bright.

Satsvarūpa: Sometimes in your lectures you explain the living entities can live there because they have bodies of fire.

Prabhupāda: Fiery. Not fire.

Guru dāsa: Fiery.

Prabhupāda: Because there is heat and brightness, therefore they can say fire. Just like, what is called, diamond. Diamond looks like, bright, like this beautiful. But that is not fire. Diamond, real diamond, you keep in dark room; it will be light. But that is not fire.

Devotee: Effulgent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bright. Brightness. (heavy wind noise) (break)

Devotee: That stars?

Prabhupāda: Stars? They are planets like this planet. Like moon planet, the moon planet. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. The stars, they are so many moons, not suns. They say "sun." And we say, "No, it is moon." Sun is only one. In each universe there is one sun, but there are many planets like moons.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (break) ...that is completely verse.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I said that in the Vedas there are so many injunctions for different men, because the population, the sattva, rajo, tamo-guṇa, some of them are śūdras, some of them are kṣatriyas, some of them are vaiśyas, some of them are brāhmaṇa; therefore different ways of inducing them is there. But because something is there for inducing the śūdras in the Vedas, you cannot say, "No, this is not required." That is also required, for the śūdras, not for you.

Indian man (4): No, but then he...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vedas means helping everyone. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedāḥ. Traiguṇya-viṣayā vedāḥ.

Indian man (3): It is the māyā.

Prabhupāda: By killing, yes. Nistraiguṇyo bhavārjuna. Your aim should be to go above this qualities of material.

Indian man (4): That is what he wants.

Prabhupāda: But Vedas are describing... When Vedas are describing something for the benefit of the śūdras, because it is meant for the śūdras, you cannot condemn it.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...

Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Śva-viḍ... Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"

Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. That is stated: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's also a big paśuḥ. That's all. Otherwise how he can dare to see that "Bhajan is nuisance"? Because it is paśuḥ. He's not even a human being. Otherwise how he dares say like that? (break) ...reply that dacoit. If I reply, then I have to call him, "You are a paśuḥ."

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, "The whole prajā, population, they are born of Me."

Dr. Patel:

etāṁ vibhūtiṁ yogaṁ ca
mama yo vetti tattvataḥ
so 'vikalpena yogena
yujyate nātra saṁśayaḥ

Prabhupāda: Yes, tattvataḥ, to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ.

Dr. Patel: Rightly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel:

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
(BG 10.8)

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the actually essence of Bhagavad-gītā. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "I am the origin of everything." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo and mattaḥ sarvam. Sarvam means including Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara. Sarvam. Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā. One who understands this. Bhajante. So just... The bhajana is for whom? Iti matvā. When one understands that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, even the original demigods, Brahmā, Viṣṇu, Maheśvara, when one understands perfectly this thing, then his bhajana is perfect.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Many countries... Especially we are Indian. We have seen in India. Nowadays there is no eatables. The government cannot supply food, failure, the problem which is not even amongst the beasts and birds. The birds and beasts, they have no such problem. They are freely living, jumping from one tree to another, because they know there is no problem of eating. And human society, there is problem of eating. What is the advancement? And there is enough place for producing food. I have seen Africa, Australia. Enough place. If the foodstuff is produced there, ten times of the population can be well fed. But they are: "Don't enter. Don't come here." The Africans will say to the Indians, "Don't come here. Go out." What is this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice. We say, "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Let us live peacefully and utilize Kṛṣṇa's property." This is the best philosophy. But the so-called politicians and leaders, they are saying "No, you cannot enter here," immigration. America has got enough place to produce food. But they will, although they have gone to the United Nation, UNESCO, they could not find out any solution. Although there is possibility of producing ten times of the requisites of the whole population of the world, they will not allow. They will not allow. On God's side, this unit, this planet, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation)—everything is complete. You require water. They save three times water than the land. And the water is distributed over the land, parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ so there will be sufficient food grains. And annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). And if there is sufficient to eat, have sufficient eatables to the animals and to the men, then everything is prosperous.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: ...the book glorifying the Russian ideals, he is thrown out of the country.

Prabhupāda: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it. (break) ...to the Indian railway strike, have you got any news?

Bhagavān: It ceased the other day.

Karandhara: They made some agreement with the union.

Prabhupāda: Government made agreement.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: That was my question. If there is necessity for exporting, then there is necessity for maintaining ships and trains and means of communication, employing workers, electrical dynamos for running...

Prabhupāda: No, point is if in one place you can produce food grains, butter and milk, why not other place? That is my point. The land is everywhere the same. If one place... Now here, in Europe and America, there is enough production because the population is less. So the whole America is bigger than India, at least four times. And the population is not even half. What is the population whole America?

Bhagavān: 200,000,000.

Prabhupāda: And India?

Bhagavān: About 600,000,000.

Prabhupāda: Just see. And the land is four times more than India, at least. Therefore you find excess. You see? Otherwise, India is also producing. No, India is not producing. It is not utilizing all the land.

Guru-gaurāṅga: If the people here are so sinful, how is it that they have so many nice facilities? It will go away soon, very soon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. As they increase their sinful activities, these facilities will be taken away. Therefore we propose that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, and we are all sons of Kṛṣṇa. Just cooperate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then the whole world will be happy. This is our proposal. Why do you think it is American, it is Swiss, it is Indian? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Let us become obedient to Kṛṣṇa, and because we are sons of Kṛṣṇa, let us enjoy the property of Kṛṣṇa. Immediately there will be happiness. I have several times said that the, still the whole world can produce so much grains and foodstuff, ten times of the population can be fed, ten times. In Africa, in Australia, and even in America, so much, I means, prospect of producing food. But they will not cooperate. They will kill the animal. They will throw the grain to the sea, and claim, "It is my land. It is my property."

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: (reads purport in French)

Prabhupāda: So far I have studied... I am traveling all over the world. It is my calculation that we can produce food to give food ten times of the population if we properly utilize the whole planet according to this-produce food. Why because the milk is produced more, the cows should be slaughtered when there is a need of milk? It is so nice foodstuff. So on account of this false nationalism, "This is my land, this is my land, this is my land..." And why not take it as God's land and produce enough foodstuff. There will be no scarcity. There will be no skeleton. And distribute it. Where is that consciousness? There is so much land uncultivated all over the world, especially in America, in Australia, and in Africa, so much, huge land, no cultivation. They are keeping some cows and slaughtering them and exporting. What is this? Why don't you produce food?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Swiss Man (1): (French)

Yogeśvara: He says all of these things, they are known. They know there's enough land and all these nonsense things are happening. He says simply to give this...

Prabhupāda: And therefore knowledge is required.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Satsvarūpa: You said: "Well, if you're sinful, there's no question of going on to a higher topic."

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is specially mentioned in the Bhāgavata: vinā paśughnāt.

nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād
bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt
ka uttamaśloka-guṇānuvādāt
pumān virajyeta vinā paśughnāt
(SB 10.1.4)

Everyone can understand the truth except the rascals who are meat-eaters. Vinā paśughnāt. Paśughnāt. Paśu means animals, and ghna means killer. Christ therefore first says, "You shall not kill." These rascals are killers from the very beginning, and they're continuing. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are paśughna, they cannot understand. They're thinking, "We are doing very good work, philanthropic work, opening hospitals and public roads, and every ten years, we are fighting and killing all the men population." They're happy. They are taking credit for these big, big buildings, but this is duṣkṛtina because simply these buildings are meant for committing sinful activities. That's all. "Wine, women, meat-eating, gambling. We are civilized." (break) ...this Geneva very many churches.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Their statistics in the western world... Inductive knowledge is always imperfect. They have not seen in India. My wife gave birth at the age of fourteen years. She is still living. She is ten years younger than me. So sixty-eight, sixty-nine, she is. She gave birth child at the age of fourteen. In 1918 I was married, and 1921 she gave birth the child, my first son. And she was never unhealthy; neither she had to go to the hospital for maternity hell. Natural delivery of child. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This illicit sex, even with wife... If sex life is indulged after the period of menstruation, that is also illicit sex. There are so many rules and regulations about sex life in Vedic culture. That is real use of sex life. In the Bhagavad-gītā, sex life, He says that dharmāviruddhaḥ kāmo 'smi. "Sex life which is under regulative principle of the Vedic knowledge," Kṛṣṇa says, "I am that sex life. I am that sex life." And beyond that, that is illicit sex life. And yesterday I was reading that dharma... When there is irreligious sex, then it increases varṇa-saṅkara, unwanted population. So the modern civilization, they're letting loose the women for prostitution, and they want nice children. That is not possible. Why this park is kept like this?

Guru-gaurāṅga: It's more of a forest, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Nitāi: In Los Angeles, you were saying about the system of monogamy, how in this way most of the women are left unmarried.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is prostitution. If a man... First of all, the problem is... That they do not know, that they should produce sufficient food grains. These, all these contraceptive methods, this and that, monogamy, they are trying for checking population. Is it not?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The basic principle is to check population. Now, if they follow the Vedic principles, automatically the population is checked. Just like brahmacārī. So if the, both the boys and girls remain brahmacārī, then where is the unwanted population? Where is the question of this contraceptive method?

Nitāi: No need.

Prabhupāda: No need. Then when the brahmacārī is allowed to become gṛhastha, he can keep more than one wife if he's able to provide them nicely. Here they marry today and tomorrow divorce. The... No meaning of marriage. Simply prostitution. Because he does not need a wife. His sex life is satisfied in so many ways. So why he should be affected, attached to wife? And why the wife should be attached to the husband? Therefore divorce. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Dam-patye ratim eva hi. In the Kali-yuga, married life means sex life. For sex satisfaction, they'll marry. Otherwise, there is no need of marrying. That is... Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Marriage means that they, both of them agree that "We shall live together for some time." These things are happening, already foretold. By agreement, "Yes, we shall live together." That is marriage. "And then I may divorce." Actually, they do not know what is the meaning of marriage. All dependent on sex. Rati. Rati means... Dam-patye ratim eva hi. Vipratve sūtram eva hi: "To become brāhmaṇa means just have a thread only."

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... (break) If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. (break) ...tells us in the śāstras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. This is the description of the Gosvāmīs. They are well versed in all different types of Vedic scriptures just to establish a peaceful society sad-dharma, very nice gentleman, peaceful society. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, for the benefit of the whole human society. Therefore they are honored all over the world. This is gosvāmī business, not to exploit (indistinct) live like irresponsible man, eat, drink, be merry and enjoy.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: In Long Island and those places, if you go, the sea, the sea is so dirty.

Nitāi: In New York, they're anticipating a crisis because for many years, they've been taking all their trash and rubbish and putting it out in the sea. And now that whole part of the sea is coming in towards land, very, very contaminated.

Bhagavān: Yes. The article said that they dump their garbage in a certain area, and nothing can grow there except the most poisonous bacteria. And now that whole business is moving back towards the population.

Prabhupāda: Reaction. Everything... Yajñārthe karmaṇo yatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Whatever you do, you are bound up by the reaction. That is nature's law. (break) ...and occasionally there will be big war, and they'll kill themselves. That's all. Now they are killing animals. That is a separate from human being. But time will come, the human beings, they will kill themselves, one another. Not only one, two, but wholesale. Daily, millions or thousands will be killed. They want to avoid war. For that reason, they invented the United Nations. Eh?

Bhagavān: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: So why they want to avoid war? What is the reason?

Bhagavān: For avoiding war?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Jyotirmayī: He was very sad yesterday when there was some people making noises.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the difficulty. They are... Gradually, the population of the world are becoming urchins.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Urchins. Very degraded.

Jyotirmayī: (French)

Prabhupāda: That I was discussing from Bhāgavatam, how people will degrade in this age. And this is due to lack of God consciousness. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says your lecture yesterday evening was very objectionable to many of the young people who made so much disruption. They found many of the things you were discussing...

Prabhupāda: Because the young people gradually degrading. They do not acknowledge authority. (French)

Yogeśvara: Yes. When they saw how much we were speaking authoritative, they rejected it. They reacted.

Prabhupāda: So that is their degradation, due to degradation. They cannot accept any authority. And knowledge cannot advance without authority. (French) But one thing I may say that the disobedience to the authority has begun from their fathers.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter." Although they cannot prove it. A fool's paradise. The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamyati (?). (pause) (break) ...so many, so much production, but if nature's law can stop this production, then the question of over-population. If the nature likes, it can produce three times, four times this production. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). After all, nature is producing. We do not know how to deal with nature. Therefore there is scarcity, and we say, "over-population." There is no question of over-population. There are so many hundreds and thousands of birds within this forest, other animals. They have no problems of over-population. Eh? (pause) All these men, who are living in these villages, so what is their means of livelihood? Agriculture or industry? Or service?

Haṁsadūta: I think mostly they work at some... Well, some service, yes.

Prabhupāda: Factory.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Devotee: In England and America now, more and more there is a big movement for birth control and contraceptives...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: ...as their means to conquer over the so-called over-population problem.

Prabhupāda: No, it is not over-population. They don't want to take care of children. This is their problem. It is not the question of over-population. They want to remain free and enjoy life, that's all. No responsibility. That is the hippies. That is the hippy movement.

Devotee: I have seen in all the big colleges and universities in England that I have been to, that this, amongst the students, the boys and girls, it is becoming so free. It is just like a hippy commune, the universities and colleges.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are indebted in so many ways. Therefore human being should be responsible. But the modern civilization is teaching to become irresponsible.

Haṁsadūta: (break) ...there, on the sun.

Prabhupāda: So suppose if your heat increases, what happens to you?

Haṁsadūta: I get sick.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: You know that the Christian theologian, they think the main difference between them and Eastern religions altogether is that the Christian are personalists and Eastern tradition is not personalist. This is the whole...

Prabhupāda: Misconception, yes. The majority of Indian population, they are personalists. Yes, majority. Either they worship God or demigod, but they are personalists. Recently the Māyāvādī philosophers, they have poisoned, the impersonalism, calamity. God is person. It is... In the Veda it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There are millions of persons. We are all persons. And God is the chief person. Just like in modern democracy, there is no monarch. But ultimately they have to select one president. Without person, there cannot be government. Why they do not remain without a president? Let it... Government, everything is government, impersonal. Why they select a president?

Professor Durckheim: Yes. One who takes lead, yes, sure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if for a small government, three bighās of land, you require a personal governor, and such a huge government, millions and millions of universes, how the governor, the Supreme Person, supreme executive, shall not be a person? What is the reason? Actually, at the present moment, people have given up to understand the science of God. That is the defect. They are thinking everything here. Here is advertisement, "Everything here. Come on. Here is a bottle. Here is the pack (peg?). Come on." Everything here. That is the defect. And we are preaching, "Everything is not there." "Everything is lost there," we are preaching. No intoxication. And the material world is preaching, "Everything is there." This is the difference. We are preaching, "Everything is here in Kṛṣṇa, in God." We have... There is a tendency here. Just see. They want to worship Deity. Even on the street side there is such thing. The tendency is to worship Deity, person. I have seen in Rome. In many small lanes, they have got this, yes. Personal worship. So the village men, they are all sleeping now?

Professor Durckheim: Yes. Most of them are sleeping.

Prabhupāda: They are enjoying. Sleeping is enjoying.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: He wants... He would like to know what you think that Australia should help Asia with as far as making people more comfortable to live in this world and what Australia can imbibe from Asia as far as teaching in science as well as general living.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So far I have studied, not only Australia, but also America and Africa, there are immense land uncultivated. So I think all these countries... The population increased in India, China, and similar other places. They should allow to come them, come here and produce food grains. If you cannot manage the over-populated countries, they should come. If the government allows, they would immediately come and utilize the vast land for producing food grains. And in the Bhagavad-gītā we have the statement-find out, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Find out this verse. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni.

Cāru:

annād bhavanti bhūtāni
parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
yajñād bhavati parjanyo
yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
(BG 3.14)

"Translation: All living bodies subsist on food grains, which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of yajña, sacrifice, and yajña is born of prescribed duties."

Prabhupāda: This is the cycle, that we should produce immense food grain both for the animals and for men. And there should be cooperation. Just like the cow and bull. The bull helps plowing. That is the original system. Now they have invented tractors, what is called? Tractor?

Madhudviṣa: Cultivators.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): That means that about this varṇa-saṅkara etc—Lord Kṛṣṇa mentions in Gītā—that this present day society is varṇa-saṅkara.

Prabhupāda: Varṇa-saṅkara. There is no varṇāśrama; therefore all the children, they are varṇa-saṅkara. And as soon as there is varṇa-saṅkara population, the world becomes hell. Therefore we are trying to check—"No illicit sex"—to stop this varṇa-saṅkara. Now the varṇa-saṅkara has come to such an extent that they are killing child, and that is legal. They have come down to such a extreme position.

Guest (4): But surely there is a practical point of view also. There is nothing to eat. What will happen?

Prabhupāda: Who says nothing to eat? That is also their manufacture.

Guest (4): I mean the figures which are published that half of humanity will starve.

Prabhupāda: It's... Especially, we are Indian. It is advertised that we are poverty-stricken. All over the world this is advertised. Wherever I go, they say, "Oh, you are coming from India?" (laughter) Because they are simply begging, the government. But who is dying? There is... Dying is going on, but that death is going on in other countries also. They are dying, committing suicide. And maybe some persons are dying out of starvation. You cannot stop death. Suppose you have got enough food. That means that everything is solved? In America there is enough food. Why they are coming hippies? There is no shortage of food. Nothing... Everything is abundant, but why they are becoming hippies? They are lying down on the street, on the park and I have seen in London, the St. James Park. They are sleeping, and the police is kicking: "Hey! Get up! Get up!" So why? The English nation is not poor nation. The American nation is not poor nation.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva (BG 18.44). This matter has been entrusted to the vaiśyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy. I have seen all over the world. There are enough space for producing food grains. And if we actually produce food grain, we can maintain ten times of the present population of the whole world. There is no question of scarcity because God has created everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). There cannot be any defect in the creation of God. We have created these defects on account of our disobeying the orders of God.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Why you are speaking of India. Everyone needs, all over the world.

Guest (1): Because we are the most unfortunate one that with only...

Prabhupāda: You are unfortunate because you are now following misleaders. You do not follow the real leader.

Guest (1): We have only 2.4 percent of the land area and we support 16% of the human population. You see this land...

Prabhupāda: That is due to your ignorance. You have followed the so-called rascal politicians. You have not followed Kṛṣṇa. Therefore this misfortune is there. Misguided. Now...

Guest (1): Everything comes from the mother earth. We are in very short supply of things.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No shortage. That is everything supply. You have got the Vedic knowledge. You don't take care of that. You now manufacture your own knowledge. Now there is knowledge, this Bhagavad-gītā is perfect knowledge, but even a political leader like Gandhi, he says that I don't believe that there was anybody like Kṛṣṇa living. This is your leader. All the ācāryas, previous ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, Śaṅkarācārya, big, big, stalwart, learned, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Now Gandhi says, "I don't believe." Now you are guided by Gandhi, you are not guided by the ācāryas. That is your misfortune. You are not guided by Kṛṣṇa. You are guided by Dr. Radhakrishnan. That is the misfortune. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), one blind man is being, is following another blind man. That is going on. That is going on all over the world, not only in India.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Reporter: You are not suggesting that all of that is just cut away completely, but that people...?

Prabhupāda: No, you require... First thing, you require to eat. So Kṛṣṇa says that annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Produce sufficient grain, food grain, so that both the animal and the man, they will eat and become robust, stout, and strong. And they will be capable of working. So that is the first thing. But who is producing food grains? They are producing motor tires. When there is scarcity of food, will these motor tires help us? We shall eat motor tires? This is going on, so-called industrialization, producing unnecessary thing which is not required, and they are neglecting producing food grains. And I have estimated—I am traveling all over the world—that there are so much space even now that if you produce food grain, you can feed ten times of the population as it is. But they will not do that. They will create motorcars, and the whole street is congested. At any moment there can be accident, and if you have to go to consult a doctor, you have to go thirty miles off. Because the motorcar is there. I am diseased. I want to consult a doctor. So he must be in neighborhood. But I have to go thirty miles. And maybe, before going to the doctor, I may be finished, by accident. Anartha, it is called anartha. Anartha means unwanted things.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: She has written one article in our Back to Godhead. I am quoting from that.

Brahmānanda: "...in ignorance performed at an improper time and place to an unworthy person like a gambler or a drunkard, or contemptuously, without respect. Charity in passion, performed to get something in return with a desire for fruitive results or in a grudging mood. Charity in goodness, performed as a duty and at the proper time and place to a worthy person and with no expectation of material returns. And charity in pure goodness, performed only to satisfy the Supreme Lord. In the śāstras charity in passion and ignorance is completely rejected, although people do it unconsciously. Charity in goodness only is recommended. Point Eight: Proper and beneficial use of the income and property of the institutions and how far the policies of the government and the exercise of its authority in its behalf are just and proper. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī was the chief minister of the government of Nawab Hussein Shah. He gave us a good example how to divide the property in the society. Fifty percent of the income must be spent for Kṛṣṇa, twenty-five percent of the income should be spent for family, and twenty-five percent should be kept in reserve for emergency expenditure. Spending fifty percent of the income for Kṛṣṇa means for the whole society by encouraging the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Nine: The role of manava-dharma pariṣat. I think that if the manava-dharma pariṣat takes these suggestions of mine very seriously, certainly it will be of great benefit to the Indians and the whole world. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on on this principle, and if the pariṣat inaugurated by you cooperates with us, certainly we can render a very great service to the human society. So far manava-dharma is concerned, it should not be restricted within the Indian borders, because human beings are in all parts of the world. Point Ten: The manava-dharma mission, its constitution and program. Therefore the constitution of manava-dharma or the institution of varṇāśrama must be interesting for the whole world, and it should be exemplified by practical demonstration. The immediate program should be village organization as Mahatma Gandhi contemplated. In India the majority of the population is in the villages. The difficulty is that there is no sufficient supply of water to produce food grains. Mother nature, or mother Durgā, punishes the godless demons by restricting the supply of food grains. The godless demons are very enthusiastic to produce motorcars, skyscrapers, brothels, and cinemas, and many unnecessary demands of the body, but they are not interested in producing food grains. This is the defect of the modern society. If food grains are produced in an organized way, human society can produce ten times what they are presently producing. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is confirmed,

annād-bhavanti bhūtāni
parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ
yajñād bhavati parjanyo
yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ
(BG 3.14)

I hope you will give your serious consideration to my suggestions, and I am prepared to cooperate with you to my best capacity if you think my suggestions are right."

Prabhupāda: This suggestion is to you also. (chuckles) And if you can do these things organizedly, certainly it will be beneficial to the whole human society.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...although there is full arrangement for producing food, and because we are rogues and demons, nature will restrict supply. (break) But this machine will be stopped as soon as the increase of population of rogues and demons. The machine is there already. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. The background is Kṛṣṇa. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), under His order. He says, "Don't supply here." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. The supply is stopped. That they do not know. They are making scientific research. What scientific research? Bring water. There is so much water. Bring that water, distill it and throw. Are you such great scientist? And by God's arrangement the sun is there, evaporates the water from the sea, and it becomes purified without any salt, and it is extravagantly thrown on the land. And the same water again flowing down through the river in the sea, the water is reserved. Nothing is lost.

Brahmānanda: The scientists have been able to artificially take the salt out of the ocean water to make it fresh for irrigation, but it is very, very costly. It requires a great deal of energy.

Prabhupāda: That is their defect. They theorize, but when it is practically going to be done, "No money. Get taxes." They will levy tax, and the tax will be divided amongst themselves, that's all.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Guest: Except the serpent. They eat their children. There are too many of them so they eat at least half or three-fourths, don't allow the serpent population to grow. Because after the child must be hungry, and she must...

Prabhupāda: Still, those who live, they depend on mother.

Guest: Actual, the serpent because serpent government, he says.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Serpent mother also, Kali-yuga. (break) ...they are keeping, but it is not possible to give them food by purchasing. They are taking food from the street. Similarly, the poor man keep a cow. It is not possible to purchase food for the cows. So maintain in this way, so, by natural food. And in Germany I have seen. They are not given extra food. They are living by pasturing ground. That should be arranged. They should get food from the ground, not that we have to purchase food for them. Then you cannot maintain.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: ...kinds of ideas and that we have ideas that can be very useful for them. So actually there is a...

Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is the basic principle of civilization, what we want to fulfill, what is the goal. There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry. So where is that department of knowledge?

Justin Murphy: Where do we fit in?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Justin Murphy: We, the organization that I work for, the government that I work for, is, of course, very, very different, no doubt, in ideas and in philosophies to all of you, and you for example. We work within, however, a situation where we are concerned that within the framework of Australia's society, which involves people, private enterprise, industry, increasing population, all of these placing demands on what naturally is Australia, what you were talking about to begin with. The evolution of Australia, the continent, the land mass, and the birds, the animals. Of course, we have a magnificent and unique and diverse fauna and flora.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Without cooking.

Justin Murphy: No cooking. No cooking. Immediately, wiggling. The fresher the better. They used to eat small furry animals, bandicoots, wombats. There were no rabbits, of course, in those days. Rabbit has been a disaster introduced by man, by European man. But they used to occasionally pound the grass seeds from a few species of arid sand grasses and make a kind of an unleavened bread, which they would then bake. But generally the aborigines were nomadic, they were shifting, and they didn't cultivate. They didn't till the soil ever. But we must, whilst attempting to provide for the inevitable Australian people and the growth of population, we must also try to do that within the confines and the dictates of nature and the natural resources which we have. Australia is very rich in a lot of natural resources; it's very, very poor in others. It is quite poor in water, and, of course, water is absolutely basic to the growth process. Australia has abundant sunlight, solar energy, which is the basis of photosynthesis.

Prabhupāda: Vegetable.

Justin Murphy: And vegetable growth. But we lack water. And in Perth we are doing an excellent job at ruining our water. It's criminal in many respects, what is going on. And this is what we must do. So we are trying to strike a balance between science for and research for the benefit of people. But it must be also for the benefit of the environment, because...

Prabhupāda: You find out this verse. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Annād. A-n-n-a-d. Annād.

Paramahaṁsa: A-n-n-a-d. Hm.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Justin Murphy: But so many people don't see it that way.

Prabhupāda: At least one class of men must be thoroughly conversant, thoroughly aware of the things as they are. They are called brāhmaṇas. Therefore the society should be divided into four classes. The first-class men, who have got full knowledge of life and the problems of life... That there should be, the first-class men. They may be very few; it doesn't matter. Ideal class. People will learn by their behavior, by their character, by their knowledge. So must be there. Then the next class would be the administrators. They would be advised by the first-class men, and they would administer the state. And the third-class men, they should produce food, enough food for the whole population. And the fourth-class men would assist these three higher class, first class, second class and third class. This is the arrangement, nature's arrangement. There are first-class men; there are second-class men; there are third-class men; there are fourth-class men. But if you produce simply fourth-class men, there cannot be any adjustment.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: I don't find less diseases. You are increasing hospitals.

Śrutakīrti: Well, now we're taking care of the diseased people. Before, no one ever took care.

Paramahaṁsa: Like in India, for example.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if you take care, what is the result? You have to increase hospitals.

Paramahaṁsa: Well, that's cause the population is increasing.

Prabhupāda: That is not the fact.

Amogha: Just like in Australia.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore your proposal is failure. You increase your, what is called, amenities?

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The population increases. The proportion remains the same.

Śrutakīrti: But we're taking care of them.

Amogha: At least we're helping them.

Prabhupāda: No, you are taking care of them, but the population increasing, therefore you cannot take care of every one of them.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Oh, yes, because we increase our hospitals therefore we can...

Prabhupāda: Ah, you are increasing and population increasing, that's all.

Paramahaṁsa: And then we keep increasing according to the population.

Prabhupāda: Then go on struggling. That is struggling. There is no question of decreasing. Proportionate. Proportionately, you increase the amenities, and proportionately the distress increases.

Paramahaṁsa: It's just like in some countries the diseased men, they suffer in the street, but here we give them a nice place to suffer.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Paramahaṁsa: They can suffer in a nice warm hospital...

Prabhupāda: So you are increasing this cancer. Very comfortable at home, but there is cancer.

Paramahaṁsa: But now we have almost got the cure.

Prabhupāda: You have, all right. My point is that you have so many things, but the suffering is going on. That is my point. You increase your means of diminishing suffering, but they are coming in a different way. So the sufferings cannot be stopped. That is not possible. This is the conclusion.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): When Rāvaṇa was on the earth, was the whole earth populated, like Brazil and also the other parts of the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere population. This is a new theory of the rascals that there was no civilization before three thousand years. This is wrong theory. Everything was there.

Devotee (1): So when Mahārāja Yayāti banished his sons to those kingdoms, they were already populated there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Paramahaṁsa: They seem to be pretty much kṣatriya races.

Prabhupāda: And during Kurukṣetra fight, all different kings joined, either to this party or that party.

Amogha: Oh, from all over the world.

Prabhupāda: It was first-grade world war, Kurukṣetra. There is the one king, Śaibya, he came from Śibiya. Where is Śibiya?

Amogha: Siberia?

Prabhupāda: Śibiya.

Amogha: Oh, Śibiya? That's Africa.

Prabhupāda: No, maybe there. There were... All the kings of the world, they joined, either this party or that party. Friends, friendly countries, they joined. Just like Kṛṣṇa. He personally joined Arjuna, but He gave His soldiers to Duryodhana. It was family war. So the friends divided, "I will join you." It was sporting. For the kṣatriya fighting is sporting. They have football match. They did not take it as enmities. Just in the evening they are friends. This party goes to that party, that party goes to... It is a decision, who will be king, that's all. Test of strength. Actually it was not enmity. "Let us fight, and who is strong he will be king, that's all."

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Yes, hurricane.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Hurricane?

Amogha: On Christmas day.

Prabhupāda: Motor buses were floating. Is that law of gravity? Air, different adjustment of air. If Kṛṣṇa desires, simply by air this whole city will be devastated. The other day we saw so many trees fell from (New?) Kurukṣetra. All trees and houses will be smashed within half an hour if some hurricane is sent. Poking nose in the affairs of God. They'll simply try to prove that there is no God. This is their attempt. And they say "nature." What is this nature? Nature is an instrument, machine. The authority is God, Kṛṣṇa. So I have given the right name, fourth-class men, not even third class. All fourth class. Śūdra. Śūdra and less than śūdra. This is the whole pack of population at the present moment. First-class man, his definition is there: śama, dama, tapa, śaucam, titikṣā, ārjavam, jñāna, vijñāna, āstikyam. That is first-class. They are snatching a motorcar mechanic as first class. Because he knows some mechanical arrangement how to do it, he is first class. Such things are being done by the demons. Machine or wonderful building, these are done by the demons. Now to begin? Time will come(?)?

Śrutakīrti: You wanted to shave your head? Yeah?

Prabhupāda: Ah, there is time?

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, we are leaving at twelve-thirty. So we have two hours. That is sufficient.

Prabhupāda: Hm. The world is full of rascals and fourth-class men. That is our verdict, Kṛṣṇa's verdict. A human being does not know God, he's no better than dog. He is dog. Who knows God? There are so many scientists, philosophers, now everywhere. And they are discussing on sex philosophy, homosex philosophy, Darwin's theory. All third class, fourth class, they are controlling. Now they are gradually coming to chaotic condition, and their problems, engage so many big, big officials how to solve. Oh, why you created problem, first of all? You third-class, fourth-class men, you have created problem, and now we are trying to make solution—another problem. And because you are the same fourth-class men, how you can make a solution? You have created the problems. The man who creates problems, can he make solution? So you are the same fourth-class man, how you can make a solution? Bring first-class man. But there are no first-class men. All rogues and rascals. Things are becoming bad to worse, and still they'll claim, "We are first class."

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: For children-kill them. This is Kali-yuga. They are killing their own children and patting a dog. Just see how much fallen they are, and they're passing as civilized. Fourth class. Complaining of overpopulation, and the dog gives birth at a time half a dozen—there is no overpopulation, welcome; we shall maintain them. Huh? They're giving twice in a year, or once in a, even once in a year, that is no overpopulation. A man gives one or two birth, it is overpopulation. Formerly they are begetting hundred children. At that time there was no complaint of overpopulation. At that time, the description in the history is kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). On account of good rains, the earth used to produce immense necessities of life. Just like this portion is maintained with sufficient water, there is green everywhere. So if there is sufficient rain, everywhere you can do. Where is the question of overpopulation? (break) ...population you work for growing food. No. Some of them are becoming hippies, no work. And some of them are working for manufacturing tire tube, tools, that's all. Where is food? Still there is food, but they'll not work for this, for growing food.

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Madhudviṣa: ...and they have found out that the people of Australia spend so much money on feeding their pets that two hundred thousand people per year could be fed with the money that is used to feed the pets.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Devotee: What is the population of Australia?

Madhudviṣa: Two hundred thousand people a year.

Prabhupāda: If they spend money for the poor country, they'll not do that. Sinful man is given this form of tea(?), a tree. So, but nature is so nice that even the sinful living entities can beautify. How properly utilized. But they have no fruits and flowers.

Madhudviṣa: No. Kali-yuga trees. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...are available here? No.

Devotee: Popper? Yes.

Prabhupāda: Indian store here? No.

Devotee: Indian import store?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. Indian import store they have. We have pāpadams.

Prabhupāda: Take the ḍāl, urad ḍāl, and make it powder like flour, and knead it with oil. And give masalā and then make like cāpāṭi. And when it is dry it is pāpad. It is not difficult. Add little soda-bicarb.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But people will say a very small percentage of the population.

Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of high percentage. I said that even a small percentage, there must be some ideal men. At least people will see that here is the ideal man. Just like we are having. Because they are chanting and dancing, many outsiders are coming and they are also learning, they are also offering obeisances. And gradually they are offering their service: "Please accept me." The example is better than precept. If you have an ideal group of men, then people will automatically learn. That is wanted. But don't mind, I don't find any ideal group of men. Even in the priests they are going to hospital for their drinking habit. I saw in sometimes before in a hospital, five thousand patients, alcoholic patients, priest. Priest should be ideal character. And they are advocating homosex. So where is the ideal character men? If the priestly class they are going to hospital for drinking habit, and they are allowing man-to-man marriage and homosex, then where is ideal character?

Director: But homosexual is a sickness.

Devotee: He said it's an illness.

Director: It's an illness. It's just like a person can't see, you would punish him for not seeing. You can't punish a person for being homosexual. That our society says.

Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, the priestly class, sanctioning homosex.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: Yes, a competitive society.

Prabhupāda: We say that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, eat here sumptuously, live here comfortably, and you become peaceful. It is guaranteed. If anyone, even a madman, agrees to these three principles, that let him chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, take whatever nice foodstuff we prepare, take, and live peacefully, he will be peaceful.

Director: What's your answer that such a small percentage of the population, tiny percentage of the population, accept the philosophy that...

Prabhupāda: Tiny percentage. Just like there are so many stars in the sky, and there is one moon. In percentage the moon is nothing. If we take percentage of the stars, the moon is nothing. But moon is important than all the nonsense stars. (laughter) But if you take percentage, he has no percentage vote. But because he is moon, he is important than all these rascal stars. This is the example. What is the use of taking percentage of the stars in the presence of moon? Let there be one moon, that is sufficient. There is no question of percentage. One ideal man. Just like in Christian world, one ideal Lord Jesus Christ.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So what can be done? Then hopeless.

Director: Well, you can work on the...

Prabhupāda: But we are going without depending on these rascals. We are going on. We are publishing our books, we are making our movement, we honestly trying. That's all. That we are doing all over the world.

Director: All we can do is allow you to convince the population differently.

Prabhupāda: We are doing.

Director: And when you do that, then social welfare...

Prabhupāda: Now suppose if we instruct a man, "Please do not have illicit sex." Have you got any objection?

Director: Pardon?

Prabhupāda: If I advise somebody that "Do not have illicit sex." Have you got any objection?

Director:. Yes, I have...

Prabhupāda: You have illicit... If I say...

Director: I like sex, and my wife likes sex. We just enjoy, we couldn't live without it. Our marriage is happier because we have sex.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (chuckling) This is the position.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:

Śrutakīrti: The following is Śrīla Prabhupāda's morning walk conversation in Honolulu, Hawaii, on May 27th, 1975, on Waikiki Beach.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...and the water. (Hindi). (break) ...and one fourth land and we are puzzled with the increase of population. But there is no puzzle, three-fourths water population. Wherever you go, you get immediately many thousand fishes. So just imagine how many fishes are there. These rascals say "Overpopulation." Why not overpopulation there? Huh? The fishes, for want of food, they are dying and floating? Why overpopulation? All their calculation are simply bogus. There is no question of overpopulation. Even... Just like people simply can live on mango and coconut. Where is the question of over-population? It is chastisement. When one cannot get proper food, that is not due to overpopulation. It is due to godlessness. As soon as people will become godless, nature will chastise them—no food, no rain, suffer. This is law. (?) (break) ...signpost.

Guru kṛpā: Private property .

Prabhupāda: Everything is private, nobody..., nothing belongs to God. This is their idea. (break)

Guru kṛpā: ...mountain?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the timiṅgila, they are as big as this mountain.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Their... The surf boards are sticking out of the water. They are holding on to them. But it is not very deep, about six feet. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...might be increasing? No.

Paramahaṁsa: This is a spot that has a very large crab population. Many crabs are living here, big ones.

Prabhupāda: They catch.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They say it is very good eatables.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, (Laughing) they say like that.

Prabhupāda: And crabs?

Paramahaṁsa: Clams.

Prabhupāda: Oh no? What is called?

Paramahaṁsa: Crabs and clams and lobsters...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lobster is very popular.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Harikeśa: They've got these fancy...

Prabhupāda: Then after effects, what will happen, that is another thing. But the war will not continue for ten years or five years, like that.

Bali-mardana: Many Communist countries now, they are not making any more big cities. They are keeping the population very spread out so that after the war they will be able to take over. Because if one has a big city, then the people can be killed very easily in one bomb, finished. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they are afraid of death?

Bali-mardana: Well, the Chinese figure they have so many people that even if there is a war...

Prabhupāda: They are gainer.

Bali-mardana: There will still be so many of them left. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they will be left. (break) Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa. Don't bother. (break) (in car) Statistics of hitchhike. What is called, hitchhike?

Siddha-svarūpa: Hitchhikers.

Prabhupāda: So mostly rape cases.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Sabudhana. (break)

Siddha-svarūpa: From observation and experience, I think that there's a higher rate of sickness in the temples than outside the temples, than the normal population for some reason, and I was wondering what could be done to bring this down. Like I know every time I'm living in close quarters, for instance, here in the temple I get some type of flu. And I can think of what it might be, but I think that in many of the temples, from what I've experienced, there seems to be more sickness. I don't know whether it's...

Prabhupāda: For you or for all others?

Siddha-svarūpa: Well, I know myself for sure. But I see a lot of other people always... There seems to be epidemics always going around or something. Manasvī, what do you think in the Honolulu temple?

Prabhupāda: Manasvī is not sick.

Manasvī: No, there is not anything like flu or anything. Some of the devotees have like chronic diseases.

Siddha-svarūpa: But in general.

Manasvī: I have rheumatism, you know. That is from the beginning. Some people are like that. Honolulu temple is not so sick. Once it happened about three months before. At that time I was told it was all over happening. But no, generally Honolulu temple, there is not much sickness. (end)

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: A brāhmaṇa's business is paṭhan pāṭhan yajan yājan danaḥ pratigrahaḥ. Brāhmaṇa means he is learned himself. He is a very erudite scholar. That is brāhmaṇa's first qualification. And he makes others also scholars, not that he remains himself a scholar. This is called paṭhan pāṭhan. Then yajan yājan. Yajan means he worships the Deity, and he teaches others how to worship. Danaḥ pratigrahaḥ. He accepts charity from others, contribution, and he gives it to others. That we have mentioned, I think. What he gets in the day, he gives in the night. So these are six principles to become a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, if he gets the degree and he smokes, he does not follow, he does not act... Because cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Kṛṣṇa said, "The four divisions are according to quality and work." Whether he is qualified, that will be proved by his work, not that he has taken the degree, and now he is smoking. That is going on. Academic means this. They get the degrees and after that they do all nonsense. That is academic. But this Vedic culture is not like that. He must act. Then it will be all right. (break) ...the western culture, the idea is "Never mind whatever his private character. We don't mind. He has passed Ph.D, so let him become teacher." This is western culture. "By privately, he may be rascal. It doesn't matter." That is not brahminical culture. There is no "private" or "public." Antar bahiḥ. Antar means internally, and bahiḥ means external. We... That chant, that ācamana mantra?

apavitraḥ pavitro vā
sarvāvasthaṁ gato 'pi vā
yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣaṁ
sa bahyābhyāntara-śuciḥ

Bahya means external, and abhyāntara means internal, not duplicity. That bahya, externally something, and internally something, that will not be successful. Bahyābhyāntaraṁ śuciḥ. Śuciḥ means purified, brāhmaṇa. And who is not purified, he is muciḥ. (break) We have to present an ideal institution, not that we make compromise with everybody. That is not our business. We don't want stars. We want moon. What is the use of millions of stars? Get one moon. That is sufficient. (break) ...not expect everyone to become brāhmaṇa. That is not possible. Because the three qualities are working, you cannot make all the population on the modes of goodness. That is not possible. There must be people in passion and ignorance. Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ, four division? He could have done one kind of men. But all of them can be utilized in Kṛṣṇa consciousness if they are guided properly. Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhiṁ labhate naraḥ (BG 18.46). One can get perfection, even becoming a śūdra, provided he is properly guided, not that only the brāhmaṇas can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. No. The śūdras also can become, provided he is guided by the brāhmaṇa. (break) At the present moment the whole human society is full of śūdras. There is no brāhmaṇas. So you have to train real brāhmaṇas. (break) ...how respectfully received that Sudāmā Vipra, not that because he was a caste brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, there are... Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.

Dr. John Mize: So we're among the 10%.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are... Just like in the prison house, there are some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few falls down.

Dr. John Mize: Does Kṛṣṇa know ahead of time that a soul is going to be foolish and fall?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa? Yes, Kṛṣṇa may know because He is omniscient.

Dr. John Mize: Are more souls falling all the time?

Prabhupāda: Not all the time. But there is the tendency of fall down, not for all, but because there is independence... Everyone is not liking to misuse the independence. The same example: Just like a government constructing a city and constructs also prison house because the government knows that somebody will be criminal. So their shelter must be also constructed. It is very easy to understand. Not that cent percent population will be criminal, but government knows that some of them will be. Otherwise why they construct prison house also? One may say, "Where is the criminal? You are constructing..." Government knows, there will be criminal. So if the ordinary government can know, why God cannot know? Because there is tendency.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Jayadvaita: Na satyaṁ teṣ...

Prabhupāda: Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate. This is the whole population. They do not know... There are big, big nation, big, big philosopher, big, big scientists and all very big, but what kind of life they should live, they do not know. What is the accurate destination of our life, that they do not know. And all humbug, big, big scientist, philosopher, theologist, and so on, so on, politician, sociologist, welfare. But real thing, they are rascal. They do not know which way we have to go. So what is the use of these big, big words? They do not know which way to go. Suppose we are walking. If we go to the this side without knowing that "This is water; we should not go," then what is the use? That is their defect. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā. Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro (BG 16.7). (chuckles) Śaucam, cleanliness, they do not know, neither behavior. Nāpi cācāro. Jagad āhur anīśvaram; (BG 16.8) "Oh, there is no God. It has come out out of the sand." This is the whole population. Jagad ahur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Which way we shall go? (break) Therefore we require vigorous propaganda to make these fools to understand what is the real aim of life. That should be our propaganda. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. They have simply calculated, "Now today the bank balance is now three millions dollars, and tomorrow it will be four million." Simply, they say. Idaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. And everyone is proud, "Who is greater than me? Who can understand more than me? I am very great man." Āḍhyo mām abhi... What is that? Āḍhyo mām, hmm? "I am the richest man. I am the most aristocratic. I have killed so many enemies. Now I shall kill that enemy." Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is their position. The rascal does not know whether he is going to be a dog next life, and if he is going to, he says, "Oh, what is the wrong? I can become dog." This is the position. (break) ...āhur anīśvaram. (break) ...trying to go to the planet, this planet, that planet. Rascal, say... They did not recognize, "Who has made this planet, where I am going?" They are taking credit by going there, but he is not giving any credit to the person or the agent who has made it. Just see. What do you think? That, "I am going there, but who has made it? Who is that person?" "No, it has come out... There was a chunk, and it became plant and then so on." This is their knowledge. And people are accepting, "Oh, great scientist. There was a chunk." Just see. Why don't you get yourself a chunk and it burst into big, big planet? (laughter) Such rascals are governing the whole human society.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a student here? (laughter)

Bahulāśva: He's in San Francisco. Or she's in San Francisco.

Prabhupāda: Why not woman become man? Then that will be nice. Manpower will increase. Because every country the population of woman is bigger than the man. So if a woman can be made into man, then manpower will increase.

Jayādvaita: Then the women will decrease.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of decrease. They are already increased. They will be equal quantity. (break) ...is there, therefore the dogs are not there. Dogs? Best friend, dogs, are not there today because the policeman is there.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, this man.

Kirtirāja: That's Hayagrīva's and Kīrtanānanda's friend.

Jayatīrtha: Dr. Henderson.

Kirtirāja: George Henderson, yes.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Kirtirāja: Right here, standing here. He just went like this to you. (break)

Brahmānanda: I asked him to prove mathematically that one minus one equals one.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...doing there?

Brahmānanda: Getting the clams.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: He is going to eat them.

Brahmānanda: (in car) ...difficult to get visas for Trinidad and Guyana. Especially Trinidad. And once he even got a visa and they rejected it at the border.

Prabhupāda: There is no need of... (break)

Brahmānanda: Oh, Same situation of having a Negro government with a large Indian population. (break) ...will have to be gotten from inside the country and then sent to us here.

Jagatpuruṣa: Well, we would call Śeṣa Nārāyaṇa who is the speaker of the house and he would tell us that we could come.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, we should not take any risk. That is not good. Then we shall postpone everything. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...this Mr. Henderson, he is living, looking like a...

Prabhupāda: Hippie.

Brahmānanda: Yes, hippie.

Jayatīrtha: He makes things for Spiritual Sky. He's not employed by them, but he makes things and sells them to Spiritual Sky. (break) ...job as a professor, but he doesn't want to. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...say "impossible" is a word found in fool's dictionary.

Morning Walk -- July 2, 1975, Denver:

Devotee (2): When a person's in sattva-guṇa, he's not so much feeling the pain...

Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. That is sattva-guṇa. Naṣṭa-prayeṣv abhadreṣu (SB 1.2.18). He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, but when he is in sattva-guṇa, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. (break) ...you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). Other guṇa means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guṇa. Then you go advance more and more. (break) ...hear about Kṛṣṇa, to chant about Kṛṣṇa, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. (break) ...world is going on on rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.

Brahmānanda: Perhaps only in India will you find people in...

Prabhupāda: Yes, some. That is also deteriorating. (break) The sattva-guṇa... the Māyāvādī, they are also supposed to be in sattva-guṇa, but mixed with rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Therefore not pure.

Devotee (2): You were saying that when one is in the mode of goodness, that he is on the mental platform?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): Does that mean that he's not... He's experiencing the subtle body inside of the gross body, or what does that mean exactly?

Prabhupāda: Mental platform is mixed sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, not pure. But if you keep always Kṛṣṇa in your mind, then you are purified. The mind has no other opportunity to keep anything else. Kṛṣṇa is sitting there, then guarantee. (break) ...they keep always seeing Viṣṇu form within the heart. Therefore they keep in sattva-guṇa. Similarly, if you keep Kṛṣṇa, then you are in sattva-guṇa. And when that concentration on Kṛṣṇa is not disturbed, then it is śuddha-sattva. That is spiritual platform. (break) ...ekādaśī?

Nitāi: It's Saturday, the 6th.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: And to serve under somebody, that is śūdra. So at the present moment people are being educated to serve under somebody. Technology, one is very expert in some particular line of technology, say, computer machine... You know how to operate. It is a big qualification. But unless he gets a job under some big establishment, he is useless. He cannot live independently. The first-class man will live independently. The second-class man also will live independently. And the third-class men, they will also live independently. And those who cannot live independently, they are fourth-class men. So at the present moment we are simply creating fourth-class men. So fourth-class men, they are prone to be degraded. If you don't raise them to become first-class, they must degrade. So that is the position of the present civilization. They are creating all fourth-class men, and gradually they are degrading. So now you should take up very seriously how you can create some first-class men. First-class, second-class, third-class also. If you simply remain in the fourth grade, technology... Technology means he has to serve under somebody. This industry, that is also the same thing. Hundreds and thousands of men are working. They are fourth-class men. And śūdra. Just like formerly in Indian village... Still there are. They are self-supported. Suppose there is a blacksmith. If you require some black iron instrument, you go there and he will prepare immediately. Say, an oil crusher, extracting oil. So weaver, self-supported. Now these things have been taken in larger scale. That is called industry. But actually these things are meant for the śūdras, fourth-class men. So the problem is that if we keep men fourth-class or increase only fourth-class men, so these things are automatic, the resultant action. Therefore, in the western countries especially, everywhere, all over the world, the attempt should be how to create first-class, second-class. At least these two classes required: good politicians, administrators, and good advisors. So this program we are placing before the world. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So I would suggest that in your country you are resourceful. You can take up this movement very seriously. And it is not expected that cent percent of the population will become first-class, but there must be ideal groups of first-class, second-class, third-class and the rest, fourth-class. That is required.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if we speak these things on television and the newspapers and people become angry, if all the people become angry like she does, is it still good propaganda for us?

Prabhupāda: No, then we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't make disturbance. But in the Bhagavad-gītā everything is discussed, this varṇa-saṅkara and the first-class man, second-class man. If we have to push on Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, then we have to discuss. But if they do not like, better chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and don't discuss anything. But these things are discussed. If you are not agreeable to hear from Bhagavad-gītā, then let us chant together Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. But these things are discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā about varṇa-saṅkara. If the population, varṇa-saṅkara, is increased, then it becomes hell. So if you want to increase the hellish person, then don't discuss. But if you think it is a problem, then discuss.

Satsvarūpa: As a brāhmaṇa, we have to be truthful. When in Hong Kong they asked you what you thought of Guru Maharaji, you said you could not help yourself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I said that he is a great cheat. What can I say? And it has been proved now. (laughter) I said in my book, Easy Journey to Other..., that this moon excursion is childish, and it has been proved now. Now they don't talk about the moon excursion because they are failure. So ten years ago or more than that, I said that it is only childish. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: "He said he has about ten thousand followers." Quote: " 'We do not have so many,' he said, 'it is hard to find a first-class man.' " And then she says...

Prabhupāda: Therefore without first-class man, nobody can become my disciple.

Jayatīrtha: Then she says, "It's a pity half the population are women."

Prabhupāda: I didn't say half the population...

Brahmānanda: That's her comment.

Jayatīrtha: That's what she said. In other words...

Brahmānanda: Her comment is that if you hadn't...

Jayatīrtha: ...that half of the people are disqualified already because they're women. It's not so bad.

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not bad. It is good. Now our policy should be that at Dallas we shall create first-class men, and we shall teach the girls two things. One thing is how to become chaste and faithful to their husband and how to cook nicely. If these two qualifications they have, I will take guarantee to get for them good husband. I'll personally... Yes. These two qualifications required. She must learn how to prepare first-class foodstuff, and she must learn how to become chaste and faithful to the husband. Only these two qualification required. Then her life is successful. So try to do that. (Car doors open, walk begins) Ordinary education is sufficient, ABCD. This is all nonsense, so big, big, sound education and later on become a prostitute. What is this education? (laughter) To make them prostitute, it doesn't require education. (break) Yesterday we saw in the television how these rascals are wasting time, talking nonsense. There was nothing, valuable talk. Foot... No, no, hand... What is that? Handprint? And the addicted murder? That was the case? (break) Within two weeks, two divorces.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: What would be your advice to her?

Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī. (end)

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Nitai:

saṅkaro narakāyaiva
kula-ghnānāṁ kulasya ca
patanti pitaro hy eṣāṁ
lupta-piṇḍodaka-kriyāḥ
(BG 1.41)

"When there is an increase of unwanted population, a hellish situation is created both for the family and for those who destroy the family tradition. In such corrupt families, there is no offering of oblations of food and water to the ancestors."

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Reporter (2): Why does the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement not engage in social protest?

Prabhupāda: We are the best social worker. People are fools and rascals. We are teaching them nice idea of God consciousness. We are the best social worker. We will stop all crimes. What is your social work? Producing hippies and criminals. That is not social work. Social work means the population must be very peaceful, wise, intelligent, God conscious, first-class man. That is social work. If you produce some fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class of men what is social work? We are producing that. Just see. Here is first-class man. They do not have any bad habit, illicit sex, intoxication, meat eating, or gambling. They are all young men. They are not addicted to all these things. This is social work.

Bhaktadāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they want to know what will be the political effect of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?

Prabhupāda: Everything will be polished if Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is taken. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If this God consciousness is spread, then everyone will be brilliantly qualified. And without God consciousness, the so-called education as we were discussing in the morning, there is no value in it. Simply they are talking. What is the subject matter we were talking?

Bahulāśva: Psychology this morning.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, he has no proposal for those.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this nonsense problem? So far eating, sleeping, even the birds and beasts, they have no problem. They are eating, sleeping. What is this problem in eating, sleeping and mating? There is no problem. Why you are creating problem? You are creating problem, rascal. There is no problem. Where is the... Out of 8,400,000 species, only men are 400,000. Eight million they are all lower animals. Where is their problem? They have no population problem, they have no food problem, no quarter problem. They do not go to office, they do not start factories. So where is their problem? Eight millions, they have no problem. And out of the 400,000, the so-called rascal civilized men, they have problems. Others they have no problem. They don't require a scientist rascal like you. (laughter) This is the... Tell them like this. If you take vox populi, so out of eight million four hundred, eight millions do not require a rascal like you. And out of the so-called civilized men, a few only, they require your service. So what is the value of your service? Others, they have no problem. Do you think they have problem, the birds and beasts? They are very freely walking from one tree to another and eating. Whatever fruits are there, they are eating. And the for mating, the female bird is always with him. Nature has given, when the birth is taken place, one male, one female, cats, dogs and birds. So there is no problem. Is there any problem?

Brahmānanda: No.

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What are the facts?

Rādhā-vallabha: Well, for example, you may see that living beings are reproducing geometrically. One couple produces two children, those children each produce two children, so in that way it appears that the animal population should be increasing geometrically. And we can see that...

Prabhupāda: Who made that geometric?

Rādhā-vallabha: This is all just going on.

Prabhupāda: Ah, accident. (laughter) That's all.

Rādhā-vallabha: So their observation is that even though this geometric progression of species is going on, still, the same amount of living beings in each species is remaining. So the theory to support this is that within each species there must be variations. And within these variations, certain ones are more favorable than others for survival. So in due course of time the unfavorable variations die out.

Prabhupāda: That is already there. You are living more than the ants. That is already there.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: But this... Who supplied the resources of this ocean? They say that water is combination of hydrogen and oxygen, so wherefrom this hydrogen-oxygen supply came?

Devotee (4): There is another group. They call themselves Zero Population Growth. So their idea is that there's too many people on this planet. So therefore either they want... What they want to do is that they want to increase the number of deaths...

Prabhupāda: Death.

Devotee (4): Yes. (laughter) And decrease the number of births. It is called Zero Population Growth, and they are actually thinking like this.

Prabhupāda: And who is going to decrease the population of the mosquito? It is increasing. This means real business they are forgetting.

Devotee (4): So in every school they have so many organizations. Is this a good idea, that we can have debating programs like this along with selling books.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let them study another line of education. Just like there is religious section. It has nothing to do with the engineering, but there is section. Similarly, in religious section or in another section these things should you study, Bhāgavata. That is good. Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata.

Morning Walk -- July 29, 1975, Dallas:

Satsvarūpa: In a newspaper report, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about India, it said that the mass of people in the rural areas didn't even know that there was an emergency rule. They don't... It's so peaceful. They're not affected. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...of people, they do not care for these political things. Even in Gandhi's strong civil disobedience movement, out of the whole population of India, only sixty-thousand men joined. What is the India's population?

Brahmānanda: Six hundred million.

Prabhupāda: Six hundred million, and out of that sixty-thousand joined, and it became successful. Sixty thousand joined by statistics. Actually worker, I don't think more than ten thousand people. Exactly like Indian village. Here there is no business. They simply reside.

Brahmānanda: Yes. (break) (outside:)

Satsvarūpa: ...it's over there somewhere. He's one of the world's richest men, H. L. Hunt. He's a Dallas oil millionaire. Some devotees tried to approach him, but at his house he has servants and... At least the servant took a Bhagavad-gītā. They couldn't see the man himself.

Dayananda: He died. A few months ago. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...otogrika? (?) Similar like that. (break) ...dollars?

Brahmānanda: Daily.

Prabhupāda: Daily.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: Yesterday I saw a statistic saying that in the United States, 21% of the population is in poverty.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So?

Brahmānanda: But that poverty means that they earn five thousand dollars or less. Less than five thousand is the line.

Prabhupāda: Well, it is all proportionate, that... You are paying rent for this room where I am staying, $175 per month?

Uttamaśloka: It has just been changed to 175 from 150.

Prabhupāda: So out of five hundred dollars if you have to pay 175, rent, then why it is not poverty? Almost one third money is finished by paying rent. (break) ...seen in India the Narmada Falls? Huh? Jabalpur? Ah, it is wonderful.

Indian man (1): The location of that church is very nice because there are so many thousands of cars pass every morning and in the evening.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Indian man (1): Avenue Road. It is very busy street. There are so many cars coming in the morning, I think, twenty thousand a day.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they will see the signboard.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine. So one English doctor was his professor, Colonel Maylow(?). So he was lecturing and... Now the friends have come to greet. He said that "In our country 75%, at least, students are infected with syphilis."

Brahmānanda: Infected to?

Prabhupāda: Syphilis, yes. So in India the syphilis is very horrible disease. So he exclaimed, "Oh, it is horrible." The doctor, that Colonel Maylow(?), he was astonished: "Why you say it is horrible? In your country they suffer, 90%, from malaria. That's not horrible?" So the example is that when you are suffering for a doctor, either you are suffering from malaria or from syphilis, we are suffering from disease. Why you say "This disease is horrible than that disease"? Actually this is the fact. Why should you discriminate? So he chastised him that "As a medical man, you cannot say this disease is more dangerous than that. Every disease is dangerous." Actually you should take that. Suffering, three kinds of suffering—adhyātmika, adhibhautika... The suffering is there. If you say adhyātmika suffering is better than adhibhautika suffering, that is foolishness. Atyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. Spiritual life means to end all kinds of suffering. That is spiritual life. Not that I get free myself from this kind of suffering and I accept that kind of suffering. This is not good conclusion.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't believe in the law of karma.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Rascal. This is a rascal civilization. Rascal civilization: one side, they say contraceptive; another side, they will encourage woman to marry three times a week. This is their civilization. If you want stop population why you are inducing "Indulge in sex life"? Stop sex life—brahmacārī. Everything is contradictory. And it is all sense gratification, based on sense gratification.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If a person is not satisfying his senses they think he is crazy.

Prabhupāda: But where is your sense satisfied? You are crazy. You are repeatedly being kicked by nature, that your senses will never be satisfied. Still, you are trying for that. Even the old man of eighty years old, he is going to the nightclub. Where is sense satis... When his senses will be satisfied? (aside) Jaya. Relaxation. If somebody is relaxing, chanting, they will induce, "Oh, you are escaping."

Brahmānanda: "Misery loves company."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Brahmānanda: That's a saying, that if someone is feeling misery, he wants other people to also enjoy the misery.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 25, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you accept? Why do you agree?

Brahmānanda: Well, more and more now the women are not having sex with men anymore. They're having sex with other women.

Prabhupāda: Then the population will stop? Will the population stop anymore? Then where is the proof? Just see how foolishness.

Harikeśa: Sometimes they argue that only a small...

Prabhupāda: This is argument. This is argument, that it is not fact. Let them... Women has agreed not to have sex with man. Then close all these maternity hospitals. That is the only happiness. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukha hi tuccham. The husband and wife, they, I mean to say, mix together only for this, especially in this age. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. They get married only for sex pleasure, not for any other purpose. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi. Otherwise the purpose is husband and wife together, they will worship Laksmi-Narayana and become perfect. That is the description given in Puṁsavana. You will get the statement there how the husband and wife is advised to worship Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣm-Nārāyaṇa. Therefore you will find in Hindu culture, every family, Lakṣm-Nārāyaṇa worship, the husband and wife. Still there are, there is some glimpse of human civilization in India. So we can revive it. In Bhogilal's house there is no dog.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Devotee (2): It's very wet.

Prabhupāda: Let us walk little more. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Oh, yes, it is very wet. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will come out very good. But the rascals will not do that. That is the difficulty. They will make plan. (aside:) Which way? Kṛṣṇa's plan they will not take. That is the difficulty.

Kartikeya: Is it because the leaders are not following? Therefore the population is not following?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kartikeya: The wrong example is given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). The leaders are rascals, therefore they are rascals. The father is rascal; the son is rascal. Therefore Bhāgavata says that "If you are a rascal, don't become a father." Pit na sa syāt, na mocayed ya samupeta-mṛtyum. "If you are a rascal, don't become a mother." Stop population. They have therefore invented, "Yes, we shall become 'bachelor father,' 'bachelor daddy,' " not actual father but "bachelor father." Here woman at least think nowadays that she must have a husband. In Western countries they don't think. "No, there is no need of husband." Am I right?

Girirāja: Yes.

Morning Walk -- October 6, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Indian Ocean.

Prabhupāda: Africa, one side Atlantic, one side Indian. (break) ...is growing on the sand, and they say there is no life in the sand. (break—windy beach) ...Bhoga. Bhoga means sense gratification, and aiśvarya, opulence. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are lost of consciousness, such persons become attached to sense gratification and material opulence," bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām, "and not interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ: "How to become spiritually liberated, they do not care for it." These things do not interest them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We're finding that most of our devotees, though, are coming from America. America is the most opulent place.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not most coming. Some coming. The American population is very great. If most would have come, then things would have been different.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Some of the fortunate persons like you, you are coming. Kona, kona, "some fortunate." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. But you can convert them to become fortunate. Devotee can do that. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām. They are thinking very much advanced, but they are lost of their sense, lost of their intelligence. They think of us as foolish. We do not enjoy life. (laughter) And we think of them as animals. This is the position. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Possess, you can possess. Tena tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). The real proposal is that everything belongs to God. Then God's representative, king, he gives you land. But you require for ten men's foodstuff. You calculate the ten men's foodstuff, for producing, you require so much land, so the king gives you land. You work and grow your food. And because it is God's property, you give some tax. Whatever you produce, twenty-five percent give to God or king, and balance, you enjoy. If there is no production—no tax. This is peaceful life. You work. You take land, God's land. You cannot... Why you have occupied so much land? Others, they are not allowed to enter; where there is overpopulation? How you can expect peace? Just like in China and India and other places they're overpopulation. Why don't you allow them, that "In Africa there is no sufficient population. Please come and toil and grow your food and live peacefully"? Where is that formula? Rascals, they are wanting peace. All rascal, rogues. And why they have become rascal, rogues? For want of God consciousness. They do not know that it is God's property, falsely thinking, "My property." And today I am thinking, "My property," and next day I become a dog on the same property. Hm? This dog loitering, who can say he was not formerly a Mr. Smuts? Who can say? Maybe he was Smuts; now he is dog. How can you take him? This is nature's process. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). After death you'll have to accept another body. Now who can guarantee that General Smuts did not accept a dog's body? Who can guarantee? Where is the science? You think that he is dead and gone, but Kṛṣṇa does not say like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Now what kind of body he has got? Where is the scientist to ascertain that "Mr., General Smuts has got now this body. He is living here"? Where is the science? You simply see like a fool and rascal, "My father is gone." Where your father gone? Where did he live so long? Why did you not see him? Where is the science? He is simply crying like a child, "My father is gone." Where he has gone? Find him out. And what he was? Why did you not see so long? This is their knowledge.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: It is double zero?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a z missing. Actually "Zoo Lake" it is called.

Prabhupāda: There are many zoos. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Just see. They do not check their population. How many? About one dozen? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ten. Eleven. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...He used to collect all these things for guru's cooking. Kṛṣṇa went to collect with Sudāmā Vipra, and all of a sudden, there was cloud and rain, and there was too much water, and they lived upon a tree for the whole night. Then Sāndīpani Muni, other students, came and rescued them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now we have to collect to pay the electricity bill.

Prabhupāda: These things are wasted. It can be utilized. The children, they'll gladly collect it. It will be like their sports. All the children will come and collect. Just see. Their energy is utilized, the nature's gift is utilized, and there is no expenditure.

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: Well, it's just a tumor. It's like a tumor.

Prabhupāda: Then why you say that it is mother's right to kill? And tumor, can you bring life in tumor? Kick simply on their face, on their nose. That is the only thing to treat with such... Murkhasya latausadhiḥ. Such fools in the society, they should be hanged. Misleading the whole population.

Harikeśa: Even the big, big philosophers simply say that life doesn't start until it comes out of the womb. They are just convinced of it. They are just convinced of it. No matter what argument you give, they are just simply convinced.

Prabhupāda: How they are convinced? Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's argument is that if life is not there in the womb, then how it develops?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the point. Just like the eggs. If there is no life, how the chicken comes? Why don't you manufacture an egg and bring life from it? That was... The other day I was talking. So because you are tenth-class rascal you cannot understand how the life is there. A seed. Take a seed. Unless there is life, how a big tree comes out of it? You manufacture something like that, imitating, and bring life. Life is there. Because you are tenth-class rascal you do not know.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Dr. Patel: South Africa is just like, just like, as cold as Europe.

Prabhupāda: Not very cold, but it is cold. Durban. Durban.

Dr. Patel: Durban, there is a huge population of Indians, and all Gujaratis.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Somehow or other, Bengalis and Gujaratis are akin. Why they have one living in West and other in East? What must be the cause of oneness even in thought and action, in every way.

Prabhupāda: Oneness means Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: In temperament also. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That is also external. Real unity is on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (Hindi) The Vedānta begins, athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Just inquire about the soul." And where is that education? This human life, they are opening so many colleges, schools, institutions. Where is the instruction about the soul? So go-kharaḥ. (Hindi) In spite of so much improvement, they are behaving just like cats and dogs. In South Africa the Indians are given the far away from the city.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Indian man (3): Yes, sir. (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Indian man (3): What is your idea about the secularism preached by our government of India and the policy of secularism? What do they mean by that? That means they say that there is no place for religion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana. As soon as there is no religion, the population-animal, that's all. That is going on. Because there was no religion, therefore the government has to declare emergency. (laughter) Because all animals. So they created first animals, then emergency. This is going on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why emergency? If there is human being, then why emergency? All animals. To control the animals you require some special measure. This is the proof that they're animals. Otherwise why? Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is long, long ago said, dharmena hina paśubhiḥ samana: "When you give up religion, you are no better than animals."

Indian man (3): What is the harm if I become an animal also?

Prabhupāda: You are already animal. There is no question of becoming animal. You are already animal. (laughter)

Indian man (3): So what is the difference between animal and a man?

Prabhupāda: Because you do not know, therefore you are animal. Therefore you are animal. You do not know what is the difference between man and animal; therefore you are animal.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you. (break) (Hindi)...reporter was not satisfied. Eh?

Brahmānanda: Girirāja? The press reporter was not satisfied.

Girirāja: No. Then he asked him about the future.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So what he will...? He does not know. What he'll speak? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Girirāja: He said the population will go on increasing more and more, and there won't be enough food, so everyone will starve.

Prabhupāda: He said, the scientist. Then what your scientific knowledge will help?

Brahmānanda: Well, if they drop some bombs they will reduce the population. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is very easy. The bomb is also ready. Everyone has got now nuclear weapon, bomb. So the scientists gave the solution. So what is the use of scientific knowledge? This is going to happen.

Brahmānanda: Actually there was one proposal. It was written in the seventeenth century in England by one famous writer, that "Because the population is increasing so much, therefore if we become cannibals, then the population will be maintained."

Yaśomatīnandana: So who will eat who?

Brahmānanda: Well, that he didn't say.

Prabhupāda: These are scientists, big men.

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Brahmānanda: Well, that he didn't say.

Prabhupāda: These are scientists, big men.

Girirāja: So the reporter asked him what were his personal plans for the future. So he said he likes one girl, so he wants to get married, and that's all.

Brahmānanda: Increase the population. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Our plan is the best because before meeting such catastrophes, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is the best. They are seeing the catastrophe, but they have no way to escape. That is the difference between them and ourselves. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...said that "There is no need of God, but there is need of girl, of a girl." He said that. Then what is the difference between a scientist and a dog? The dog also does not know what is God, but another female dog he wants. Huh? What is the difference? Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Then it is proved that he is no better than animal. The animal requires another opposite sex, but he does not know God. Then where is the difference? (break)

Brahmānanda: You know that the Detroit house, the house in Detroit? The president, he wrote in his letter. I neglected to ask you. He wanted to have a name for that temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And daṁpatye ratim eva hi: "Husband and wife means sex." Daṁpatye ratim eva hi. This, everything is there.

Dr. Patel: The ideals were established so high that it was difficult for the common folk to reach that.

Prabhupāda: That is not for common folk. It is for the rājarṣis-imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ—not for the loafer class. Therefore the whole population was trained how to become rājarṣi. Now the loafer class, they are taking the place of rājarṣi. That is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says that this science is meant for the rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). He did not go to preach to the loafer class.

Dr. Patel: That is why it became naṣṭa.

Prabhupāda: No. The system was naṣṭa. A loafer class, he became a student of Bhagavad-gītā. That is...Therefore it is naṣṭa. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. And anyone, any rascal, is commenting on Bhagavad-gītā. But it was meant for the rājarṣi.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I must have read at least, if not more, at least twenty commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā. But I found the best by Ācārya Rāmānujācārya and yours.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Yes. That is the only way. Otherwise seas are very big waves. The small crafts could not travel on that. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...proposition is not migrating. That is due to increase of population. The civilization means the culture. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: (break) ...really spread toward the east in Indonesia and Indochina, all those places, which were again overtaken by Islam later on.

Prabhupāda: Islam is also...

Dr. Patel: History, it has spread. Even Bali Islands today are practicing Hinduism.

Brahmānanda: Aryan means change in consciousness to God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: This means all over the world there can be an Aryan culture.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is right.

Dr. Patel: Today the world is dominated by Aryans, all over practically. Except in Central Africa.

Prabhupāda: Today the whole world is dominated by demons.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...they cannot understand. Does a dead child grow? Simply speaking nonsense!

Harikeśa: That's their whole argument for abortion.

Prabhupāda: That's alright but...

Harikeśa: You just finished it! (laughing)

Prabhupāda: ...but our point is, the birth problem is not solved. If there are unwanted population, you kill them that does not mean the population problem is solved.

Hari-śauri: They're not actually seeing the actual causes of the problems.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: They're not actually seeing the causes of the problems so they're trying to adjust to them.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hari-śauri: They're simply trying to make so many adjustments to the problems but they are not solving the cause.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That adjustment is not solution.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. All of them, M.D.?

Dr. Patel: M.D. Very distinguished, first class. I was very much pleased... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmeṇa yena pasave samānaḥ. They're as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they're making big, big plans-United Nations, this, that.

Dr. Patel: This is a problem. It's committed from the poor nations of the world, this United Nations.

Prabhupāda: There is no education for making people a human being.

Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hagel and Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which I mean agrees with the matter. The very first basis on which this rascaldom is, I mean the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No?

Prabhupāda: Hindu-Muslim teaching...

Dr. Patel: No, I mean sanātana dharma of this country.

Prabhupāda: Sanātana dharma, there is no teaching; it is already there.

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it.

Prabhupāda: There is no concoction.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you make tamasic dāna, then you become implicated with his sinful activities. Suppose you want to kill somebody, and you're asking, "Can you give me a nice knife?" "What you will do?" "I shall kill that man." "All right, take it, dānam. I am giving you in charity." So he will be implicated. In the court, if it is known that that man supplied the knife, "Arrest him. Bring him immediately."

Dr. Patel: So what do you think about this America has supplied a lot of grain free of charge to this country, and that grain is fed to the whole of this poor population, and they are not God believers?

Prabhupāda: No, no. The Americans, they give to the government, and they are free. They have given to the government.

Dr. Patel: Sattvika dāna.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The government, Indian government, is in necessity. In necessity, "All right, give it to the government." Their duty is finished. But if the government is rascal, that is their responsibility.

Dr. Patel: But suppose you had given me a knife to mend the pencil, and I stab somebody with it. So, like that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Patel: You have done a dāna to me, giving your knife to mend my pencil, or some useful work, and I stab somebody with the penknife, so...

Prabhupāda: That is your responsibility.

Page Title:Population (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=133, Let=0
No. of Quotes:133