Politics (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"politic" |"politics"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa only. (break) That is foolishness. Why our men does not become ready before four o'clock and have maṅgala ārati and kīrtana? If our habits are not changed, then what is the use of spending so much money? (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In no way can anyone say that they're independent. There is no possibility. At every moment one is dependent. And if anyone says they aren't, they are simply foolish rascals. We have to challenge everyone in the world on this point, "You cannot be independent." He is pointing out, saying that even in politics, the politicians like Indira think that they are independent, and Prabhupāda was saying that Munshibhai Raman, he fought so hard for his country's independence, Bangladesh. But in one hour, when the soldiers came, they killed him and every single family member, not sparing anyone. But he thought he was independent. He thought his country had become independent. But in one hour it was all wiped away.

Prabhupāda: So where is your independence? What is the answer? At any moment you have to die. Even Munshibhai Raman or Mussolini or big, big, so..., Napoleon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Franco. There was that Franco.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. He was given horse urine to drink, Napoleon. Such a great hero, but he had to drink horse urine. This Englishman after Battle of, what is that? Waterloo. When he was arrested, when he was asking water, he was given horse urine. Because everyone was very, very angry. Napoleon became just like Hiranyakasipu. They were threatening their children: "Oh, he, Bona, is coming. Sleep. Sleep. Sleep." He became so much.... He was known as Bona. You do not know all these things?

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Then you never, I mean, even for, it is just like you, even for a moment you slip down, just like a (indistinct). It should be perpetual conscious within yourself.

Prabhupāda: I have seen Gandhi's prayer meeting, and I attended. Utmost, five minutes reading Bhagavad-gītā, then again politics immediately. Immediately politics. I was in Delhi. I attended the meeting when Nawa Khalia (Noakhali?) fast. So this was his prayer. I have seen. And as a result of this, in that prayer meeting he was killed. (Hindi) So nature punishment are there. (Hindi) The last stage of Kali-yuga means you die.

Dr. Patel: But the way the modern civilized nations are exploiting the resources of the world, another fifty years there will be no resources left, and civilization automatically will die out.

Prabhupāda: Wars. The occasional war, pestilence, famine, that's all.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, sir, I think...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He was condemned to death, then C.R. Das saved him. Then he decided, "This politic has no value. Let me go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." He dreamed at night, "Why you are bothering with these things?" This is the history. So just after getting off, the judge, immediately left.

Dr. Patel: He came back Candranagar(?), to his place. (Hindi) He never came. After svarājya he never came.

Prabhupāda: But that is all nonsense. That is...

Dr. Patel: (break) ...find fulfillment there only, God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). This is the sign of bhakti, that he has no more taste in anything material. That is bhakti. (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That you'll understand when you actually understand yourself. You do not understand yourself. You cannot understand why Kṛṣṇa said that "You fight." First of all understand yourself. That is the first instruction the Arjuna was given, that the.... Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). He's not teaching how to fight. He's teaching the philosophy. Try to understand the, I mean, step by step. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is a scientific movement. It is not a religious faith. That is not. The beginning is that as the child grows to become a boy and boy grows to become a young man.... This is scientific. It is not the question of religion. It is religion.... According to Sanskrit, the dharma, the word dharma, that is translated into "religion," and religion means a kind of faith. But it is not like that. It is a science to understand your real identification. And because Kṛṣṇa we worship.... Every big man should be worshiped, so Kṛṣṇa we accept God. They take it as religion. But He's God. That's a fact. God-worshiping is religion. But Kṛṣṇa is speaking everything knowledge. Knowledge means you must have knowledge of everything, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical, chemical, physical, everything. So the Bhagavad-gītā is like that. Vedic knowledge is like that. You receive any type of knowledge you want to get. That is called Veda. Veda means knowledge. Knowledge means of anything. That is knowledge. So everything is there. You'll find social, political.... This fighting is political. So in politics sometimes war is necessary. You cannot avoid it when there is politics. That is the whole history, and politics are never settled up without war. There is no history. When you come to the political platform, war is necessary. In logic it is called argumentum vaculum, that when a man is not accepting reasoning, then there must be stick. It is like that.

Room Conversation -- May 7, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: If they allow us to forward our movement, then we are satisfied. And when there is hindrance, the person who is hindering, finished. But don't do it now, (chuckles) then you will be finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think the time will come when we will...?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because Kṛṣṇa has two business, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtam (BG 4.8). We are for delivering all people. Anyone who will put hindrance, then we have to finish. Not small, big. That is going on all over the world, politics.

Guru-kṛpā: Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he also...

Prabhupāda: That is the way everywhere. (break) They will be automatically finished. Just like the Rāmakrishna Mission, who are advertising that they have got wonderful importance. They are now finished. They are simply making false propaganda in India. Actually, they have got fangs, what is called, fangs?

Devotee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: The quality?

Devotees: Fangs.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Anartha. (break) ...they stop here. No more this material necessities. But he does not know that he cannot live without necessities. That they do not know. They simply beget these false necessities. Just like disease. I do not want disease, but that does not mean I do not want health. (everyone laughs) So these rascals, they are thinking that "We do not want anymore this material world, brahma satyaṁ jagat..." But Vaiṣṇava says "No, you must have the real thing, then you can cease from this unreal necessities. Otherwise after living for some time in brahma satya, then you'll come, "Oh, this is useless. I don't enjoy. Let me go again to open hospital, school, engage in something politics, no work..." But you cannot do. Āruhya kṛccheṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ. We are living entities. We require engagement, necessities. So give up necessities means these rascal necessities. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He's sannyāsī, He has no necessity. Why He's crying for Govinda? He has given up the whole world, sannyāsī. And why He's crying for Govinda? That is real necessity. Govinda-viraheṇa me. Govinda necessity. The necessity is Govinda is not alone. There again life, again Vṛndāvana, again gopīs, again dancing, again eating, again everything. That necessity.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

No use, you are talking together for hours, what is the use? Prajalpa, it is called prajalpa. And niyamāgrahaḥ, and, without any result, following the regulative principles—or not following the regulative principles. Niyama-agrahaḥ. Agrahaḥ means not to accept. That is also bad. That is bad, actually. And simply to see the regulative principles without any result, that is also bad. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). Laulyam—greediness; jana-saṅgaś ca—and associating with unwanted men, jana-saṅgaḥ. We should not try to associate with nondevotees. You waste your time talking something. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati. By these six principles one is loser in the matter of devotional service. Āhāra required. Just like we are reading this Bhāgavatam; it is proper utilization of time. Similarly, if we take some newspaper, some statement of the politics, and talk and argue and waste time, there is no need of such thing. I think in our institution there is no newspaper. That is one advantage. In the Western countries, newspaper is very popular thing, a huge bundle of newspaper. Although he'll not read, the newspapermen supplies huge bundle of newspaper. And wasting of paper, printing, unnecessarily cutting the trees, for running on the paper mill. This is sinful activity. They are not reading so many nonsense books and newspapers, but paper is required, there is demand. So paper mill requires cutting of the trees unnecessarily.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Could that be due to our saṅkīrtana activities?

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Bhavanti parjanyaḥ parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. There was big valley like this in Tokyo. We walked, and there was a creek like this. Not so dirty. (break)

Indian (1): ...high commissioners, for the passport. They're so demoniac, they're not working at all, they're.... (break) ...politics and they sit there. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is sympathetic with this movement. Everyone wants godlessness. And this movement is preaching about God, so nobody likes us. (break)

Devotee: They've poisoned the lakes so much in Canada now that they've been making an attempt to turn rivers around in northern Ontario to flush the lakes out like a toilet, so they can flush part of the water down to cities like Chicago. (break) (laughter)

Prabhupāda: To save all these botherations. You live here? How long you'll live in Canada?

Devotee: Nine years.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kuladri: But even in our government the President Kennedy was killed and his brother was killed.

Prabhupāda: That..., in politics, that is going on. Our Bhagavad-gītā begins on the killing ground. Battle of Kurukṣetra. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). Kurukṣetra was a battlefield, but it is still dharma-kṣetre. Why don't you see that? Now the first word is dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. So why they have gone to the dharma-kṣetre for fighting? So killing, fighting, is not always irreligious. It is religious. Otherwise, why should go to dharma-kṣetre?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Someone may say, though, "How the fighting is religious? After all, it is a family feud."

Prabhupāda: That is your ignorance. But the beginning is dharma-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Yuyutsavaḥ means fighting. Two parties, they, actually, the two parties... Pāṇḍavas māmakaḥ caiva kim akurvata. Every word is significant. Fighting can be executed even in dharma-kṣetre. That they cannot understand. Gandhi misunderstood. If it is dharma-kṣetre, how there can be fighting? He wanted to prove nonviolence artificially. How it is possible? Kṛṣṇa is instigating him to fight, and how can you make it nonviolent? That is artificial. And if you want to explain something artificially, how long you'll do it, it will be failure. So Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence and reading of Bhagavad-gītā went with him. Nobody is interested in that kind of explanation. And we are explaining Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it is increasing. It is increasing. There is no artificial way.

Prabhupada Inspects New BTG -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Reporter: "So if we don't choose our leaders by popular election, how will society be governed?"

Prabhupāda: "You require brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras. Just as when you want to construct a building you require engineers. You don't want sweepers. Isn't that so? What will the sweeper do? No. There must be engineers. So if you follow the division of varṇāśrama, only kṣatriyas are allowed to govern. And for the legislative assembly, the senators, only qualified brāhmaṇas. Now the butcher is in the legislative assembly. What does he know about making laws? He is a butcher. But by winning votes he becomes a senator. At the present moment, by the principle of vox populi, a butcher goes to the legislature. So everything depends on training. In our Kṛṣṇa consciousness society we are actually doing that. But in the case of politics they forget it. There cannot be just one class. That is foolishness. Because we have to engage different classes of men in different activities. If we do not know the art then we will fail, because unless there is a division of work there will be havoc. We have discussed all the responsibilities of the king in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The different classes in society should cooperate exactly as the different parts of the body do. Although each part is meant for a different purpose, they all work for one cause, to maintain the body properly."

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: According to them, the so-called renounced order of life is meant for those who are unable to earn their livelihood because of some corporeal defects or for persons who have failed to achieve prosperity in family life. In histories like the Mahābhārata, of course, there are topics on transcendental subjects along with material topics. The Bhagavad-gītā is there in the Mahābhārata. The whole idea of the Mahābhārata is culminated in the ultimate instructions of the Bhagavad-gītā, that one should relinquish all other engagements and should engage oneself solely and fully in surrendering unto the lotus feet of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. But men with materialistic tendencies are more attracted to politics, economics and philanthropic activities mentioned in the Mahābhārata than to the principle topic namely the Bhagavad-gītā. This compromising spirit of Vyāsadeva is directly condemned by Nārada, who advises him to directly proclaim that the prime necessity of human life is to realize one's eternal relation with the Lord and thus surrender unto Him without delay. A patient suffering from a particular type of malady is almost always inclined to accept eatables which are forbidden for him. The expert physician does not make any compromise with the patient by allowing him to take partially what he should not take at all. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said that a man attached to fruitive work should not be discouraged from his occupation, for gradually he may be elevated to the position of self-realization. This is sometimes applicable for those who are only dry empiric philosophers without spiritual realization, but those who are in the devotional line need not be always so advised."

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Now, discuss.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Actually, in this century there has not been ten years of peace. Always there is some war been going on, and now...

Prabhupāda: Cold war and hot war, they say. When there is fire that is hot war, and there is diplomacy and politics, that is cold war. So war is going on. Sometimes it is hot, sometimes it is cold. There is no peace.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We even see that among the so-called God conscious communities in the world, still there are such horrible activities going on, fighting.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we don't say that fighting will stop. We are distinguishing demons and rogues, uh, demigods. If you fight, demon, I must defend myself. What can I do? If you start war, you are demon, shall I stop: "No, no, I am demigod, I'll not fight. You kill me"? Is that intelligent? I'll have to fight. But the war starts by the implication of the demons. The Kurukṣetra war, it was not started by Arjuna. It was started by Duryodhana. (long pause) All right, go on.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mafia, organized criminals, organized like businessmen. They are controlling the politicians by money. But although they are exposing, still it goes on. It is worse than ever.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Explain further.

Hari-śauri: The Mafia is an organization that was originally coming from Sicily. They were an organized group of men that would control all the politics in the area by manipulation of money and businessmen.

Devotee (1): And violence.

Hari-śauri: And violence. So many things they'd do. They used to organize all the heroin that comes into the country, like this, for revenue, to get revenue, money. So many things. And places like Las Vegas, which is a big gambling city, that is also run by the Mafia. They control all the casinos and they control the police, they pay everyone off, like that, and if they don't agree, they kill them. So like this, their influence is spread everywhere, any illegal things that are going on.

Prabhupāda: Terrorism.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is equal—Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise not.

Hari-śauri: No. Materially speaking, they've tried so many ways to integrate the black with the whites here in America, but what has actually happened is, through those efforts, they've created a worse situation. By deliberately forcing black children and white children to go to the same schools... Sometimes they have what's called here bussing. It's a big major issue in politics now. Because they take all the black children and they take them to a white area just so that they can go to the school there. They actually take them further away from their local schools to another school, where it is all white children, so that they'll integrate and mix. So it's very controversial.

Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.

Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It becomes a political problem.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It becomes involved in politics. So that... Nothing to do with the worship.

Prabhupāda: The government should give to the hands of the devotee, we are recognized devotees, ISKCON. If they want, really management. We are managing, so many centers, on account of devotees. It is not possible to manage all these things by paid men. It is not possible.

Devotee (2): No.

Prabhupāda: They'll never... They'll not... This movement can be pushed on vigorously so long we are devotees, otherwise it will be finished. It cannot be conducted by any outsiders. No. Only the devotees. That is the secret.

Devotee (2): You cannot pay a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (2): You cannot buy a devotee.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What is the (indistinct) is I do not know, neither I...

Interviewer: Not aware of that.

Bali-mardana: Doesn't care about politics.

Interviewer: But isn't, that's part of what I'm thinking about, that you and your movement tend to separate people from concern with what's going on in the world, like that's a Presidential election and Jimmy Carter is the democratic candidate. This is a disregard of what's going on in the world. Isn't that an example of it?

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that there were many Presidents before, what is this name of this?

Bali-mardana: Jimmy Carter. He is not President yet.

Hari-śauri: Ford is the president.

Prabhupāda: Ford. So what improvement you have done by having this President or that President? What improvement you'll make unless some false promise? That's all. What is the improvement? You have changed so many hundreds and thousands of Presidents, but what is the improvement about spiritual knowledge?

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: It has become against.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe because...

Prabhupāda: It is political.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Maybe because of that.

Prabhupāda: Only politics. So mean-minded, they have no idea even beyond politics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (japa) Where are the rathas now?

Ādi-keśava: They're starting to pull.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. My Guru Mahārāja every step condemned this Ramakrishna Mission and Vivekananda. He said frankly that if there are any impediments for our movement, that is this Gandhi and Vivekananda. He said frankly. Hodge-podge. Gandhi's also hodge-podge. He was a politician, and in politics he mixed some spiritual ideas, hodge-podge. And this Vivekananda was also politician. His name was recorded in the government as "sannyāsī-politician." Because after returning from America, he began to preach to make the poor man rich, and these weak, fatty, and so on, exercise. So the government took it that he's, under the dress of a sannyāsī, he's preaching social and political upliftment. So his name was recorded as "sannyāsī-politician." And his name was also recorded, "political saint," Gandhi. After all, the British government, they were very intelligent. They could understand what is what. Otherwise, how they were managing this big empire? Very intelligent, there is no doubt about it. And actually they were intelligent. When they were managing, we were happy, actually. Nobody can deny it. Although they were exploiting. But nobody could understand. Everyone was feeling happy. And as soon as they left, everyone is unhappy. That distinction I can give evidence, I can, from my personal experience. Things were very, very nice. Calcutta, oh, it was so nice city. Now it is hell. It is same Calcutta. Why it is now hell? Hidden(?) garden, that was a nice garden. So... Everywhere hell, only hell. Calcutta was considered the nicest city in India, better than Bombay, but it has become now hell. The streets, especially those quarters in our temple.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything grown in the garden, that is hundred times valuable than it is purchased from the market. (pause) Bhagavad-gītā is a book which can guide the whole human society. In all different branches of knowledge, namely in politics, in sociology, in religion, in culture, in philosophy, in economics, everything, all lines are described very vividly, and the human society can take advantage of it. The Bhagavad-gītā begins in the battlefield with politics. And when Arjuna declined to fight, how Kṛṣṇa chastised him, that is described, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. Find out this verse.

Bhagavān: You tell him what Prabhupāda said.

Prabhupāda: You can ask him to open that book. Then read it. (translation read in French) So what is the difficulty in understanding? Ask him. This is military. Kṛṣṇa is asking that "You are in the battlefield. Wherefrom you got this cowardice mentality?" This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā teaches how to become a brave hero in the battlefield. This is the instruction. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame sam. Just read the purport. Is there any purport? (purport read in French) (break) ...difficulty to understand.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.

Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.

Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa: "The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, 'You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned—one who knows what is body and what is soul—does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.' As it will be explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And, because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man."

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was posing himself as the body. So he should not consider himself as a learned man. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Then?

Harikeśa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Anyway, that's a very frivolous statement. That was a frivolous statement.

Prabhupāda: No, that, ruling over India, they politically ruled.

Jayapatākā: But we're not politicians.

Prabhupāda: Even if we are rule, we shall rule spiritually. We have nothing to do with politics.

Jayapatākā: That's the point. That's why even the Chief Secretary, he became...

Gargamuni: They didn't take it seriously. The Chief Secretary and Mr. Choudhuri did not take that very seriously, that comment. It's a frivolous comment.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You can bring so many men and keep everyone in charge of such places, and it will develop. Money, there is no scarcity. But the difficulty is as soon as we establish, the immigration, "You go away." This is... What is this? You say the MLA and this Tarun Kanti." This is our difficulty. Otherwise there is no difficulty. We can take all the charge and develop them very nicely." So if one man is kept in charge, and after few months he's advised, "Go away," then all his training goes to hell and we have to spend another ten thousand rupees. This is the difficulty. What... We are not... Not a single case there is that we have taken any part in politics. So give us some facility. We can take charge of everything. Tell them that actually that is fact, that there is no scarcity of money. We can bring money from America and develop. There is no difficulty at all. The difficulty is the immigration department. You can say that "Prabhupāda has put this philosophy, andha..." What is that? Paṅgu. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Blind and... Depends on this... Blind and... I think you have already know. Blind man, lame man. One man is blind, another man is lame. Both of them are useless. But when they combine, the blind man takes the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man gives direction to the blind man, "Go this way. Go this way." So he walks.

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Pradyumna: "They reportedly met also our deputy defense minister, J. B. Patnayak, who hails from Orissa. It is understood that Patnayak has asked the district magistrate of Purī to find land for ISKCON's Sanskrit university there. ISKCON is pursuing not only Kṛṣṇa, it has started taking interest in politics also. It has founded a political party in the United States called "In God We Trust" Party. It has already contested civic elections in Los Angeles and intends to put up candidates for the U.S. Congress." We didn't do anything in Los Angeles. Only in Georgia. All wrong, complete...

Prabhupāda: What is wrong there? In God We Trust, this party. Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are making it sound as if it is a political party.

Hari-śauri: They say political with God's name.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not saying God at all. They're saying God..., we're using God as a front.

Prabhupāda: They may say. But we want to put forward a God's party also. Why not? Everyone is godless party. We must push forward a God's party. What is the wrong there?

Hari-śauri: It's not political.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And this is the only platform where real United Nations can be made. That is practical. That is practical. That United Nation has failed. If this Indian culture... I have given this philosophy to the American students. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. That a lame man and a blind man, separately, both of them are useless. But when they combine together, the lame man is taken on the shoulder of the blind man, and the lame man has got eyes but he has no legs. He gives direction and the blind man goes. So the, at the present moment I am trying to spread this movement all over the world. But we have no means. So let America supply the money, and let them take our direction for the culture. That will be United Nation. And actually it will become. How they are dancing, black, white, Indian, American, European, in Ratha-yātrā? There is no politics. It is out of really spiritual ecstasy.

Krishna Modi: Ah, what is politics?

Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees minimum. Minimum salary America is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go you take immediately. Anything. Building materials. You simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Emergency means there is something unnormal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is normal there is no question of emergency. That is the proof. Another thing, personally, from the Vedic point of view, I don't think India is ready to take actually democracy. Mass of people, they do not care for politics. You have better experience. There, in other countries, even a small man, he has got political sense.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

Garden Conversation -- September 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Caraṇāravindam: Actually I have seen that even in all these villages in Africa and India, they have no real connection to the city politics. Because if the city breaks down they could move back to... They have their cow, they have field, vegetables...

Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced, I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Point ten. Blitz: It has started taking interest in politics. It has started a political party in U.S.A. called "In God We Trust" party. ISKCON: ISKCON is not involved in politics at all anywhere in the world. Two American devotees did contest some civic elections for which a party called 'In God We Trust' was formed. The purpose of that campaign was to remind everyone to remember the Lord at all times, as everything belongs to God. Our spiritual master dissolved In God We Trust party in U.S.A. four years ago. Furthermore, there were never any plans to set up In God We Trust in India. We challenge Blitz to show us any evidence to support their claim. Point eleven. Blitz: As far back as 1971, the Maharastra government has taken action against the foreign devotees who have chosen to overstay in Bombay and elsewhere. ISKCON: This statement is also incorrect. The Maharastra government has never taken any action against our devotees. Point twelve. Blitz: The government has decided to stop specialized facilities rendered to foreign devotees seeking to popularize Kṛṣṇa in India. ISKCON: We are very grateful to the government of India for giving us facilities for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The government has not withdrawn any special facilities that have been given to us earlier. So I'm sure you can see by now the extent to which Blitz has misreported ISKCON activities in India. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that one day in every town and village of the world this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement would be spread. The Vedic culture is India's real heritage and we want to popularize it in every corner of the world. Even in black Africa we have locals that have joined."

Prabhupāda: Every corner of the world for world peace.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, for "world peace." Do you have a pen? No.

Hari-śauri: You don't have any light.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I need my pen. It's missing. I found it.

Prabhupāda: Because this is the only platform for united nations which is practically demonstrated.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was the head.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) You were teaching Vaiṣṇavism or...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I wanted to start from there. It was very nice, big house. But this K. Munshi's wife tactfully wanted me to... The Governor's wife. That was a very big house.

Hari-śauri: Oh, there were some politics. I didn't know.

Prabhupāda: But he peacefully took it. I could have fought but I did not like. All the pleaders in Jhansi, they said, "Don't leave." She was pressing through the collectors, to the manager. That house belonged to some zamindar. But it was under the management of another man, Reba Shankara(?). So he was proprietor of one cinema hall. So the governor's wife was pressing him through the collector because the license has to be renewed from the collector. Collector was insisting that "You give that house, Lilavati Munshi. Indirectly. Otherwise, your license will not be issued."

Hari-śauri: They didn't leave you very much choice.

Prabhupāda: I thought, I could not do something tangible. That's a fact. (indistinct) Somehow or other, I thought, let me go to Vṛndāvana. What is the use of fighting? Otherwise, all the big lawyers in Jhansi, they were my friends. They said that "You not go. We shall arrange." I thought that "I have left my home, for this reason I am going to, again litigation. I don't want this house. Let her do something."

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The young men should form another party, all the American young men.

Haṁsadūta: Viṣṇu party.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Viṣṇu party. Yes. Now they should take in politics.

Haṁsadūta: You wrote in your Eighth Canto, there are always two parties, the Viṣṇu party and the demons' party.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If they're forming demons' party, let them...

Haṁsadūta: Form a Viṣṇu party.

Prabhupāda: That ah, the fight between the Viṣṇu party and the demon party is always going on.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they could never stop it, I mean... they could just...

Prabhupāda: No. It is in the hands of the young men. It is not possible for them to stop it. If, had it been a sentiment of some retired, just like other thing, that Vivekananda's, all these old fools and rascals, they assemble and meditate. It is not that. They are active. It is not so-called meditation, and snoring, (makes snoring sound) meditating! It is not that. I have seen, all these rascals go, yogis, they prescribe meditation, and meditation means sleeping and snoring, that's all. It is not that movement. We are sending in (indistinct), "Come, sell books." It is no question of meditation. Cheating himself and cheating others. What he will meditate and he requires so many primary rules and regulations before meditating, not that... In the Bhagavad-gītā before meditation it is clearly stated one should not close the eyes. As soon as you close the eyes and meditate, you will sleep. Immediately. They should be half closed and concentrate your eyesight on the top of the nose. That is meditation. Not that closing and snoring and huhuh.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: "(indistinct) which developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Kṛṣṇa. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in should aspire to the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately, persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that the culmination of perfection or self realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are attracted by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation of the Lord or His different energies because the Lord has set in motion by His inconceivable energy, actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is therefore different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always is different from them. When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead, His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, and all the branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The (indistinct), writers, poets, and celebrated literature are generally engaged in writing sensuous subjects, but if they turn (indistinct) the service of the Lord, they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so they become immortal. Similarly science and philosophy also should be applied to the service of the Lord. There is no use presenting dry speculative theories for sense gratification. Philosophy and science should be engaged to establish the glory of the Lord. Advanced people are eager to understand the Absolute Truth through the medium of science and therefore a great scientist should endeavor to prove the existence of the Lord on a scientific basis. Similarly, philosophical speculations should be utilized to establish the Supreme Truth as sentient and all-powerful. Similarly all other branches of knowledge should always be engaged in the service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā also the same is affirmed. All knowledge not engaged in the service of the Lord is but nescience. Real utilization of advanced knowledge is to establish the glory of the Lord. And that is the real import. Scientific knowledge engaged in the service of the Lord and all similar activities are all factual hari-kīrtana, for the glorification of the Lord."

Dr. Kneupper: I will remember this. And I will read, look into your writings much more closely...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Kneupper: ...when I get back. Could I ask you if you might sign... Put your name in... Autograph?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dr. Kneupper: Could you do that please?

Prabhupāda: So, you can give him that book.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Surabhi: In fact, in India they have ordered to leave practically.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Surabhi: They say they had some connection with the CIA.

Prabhupāda: That is politics.

Surabhi: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: He was a politician. That you cannot blame. Politics require all these things. A politician cannot be a saintly person. That is not possible. For politics he has to do so many things. That is necessary. Just like Arjuna wanted to be a nonviolent. Immediately it was condemned by Kṛṣṇa, "What is this nonsense? You are a military man. Nonviolent." And similarly, politicians, they require all this. Businessman must deal in black market. It is inevitable. Otherwise he cannot improve. Because the world is bad, you, if you become honest, then you cannot make pros..., cannot become prosperous. Sate sārtham samācaret.(?) Brāhmaṇa's dealing must be very straight and honest. They are not meant for politics or business. They are for transcendental knowledge. Kṛṣṇa conscious person should be all-inclusive. He must be a politician, he must be a brāhmaṇa, he must be a kṣatriya, he must be a śūdra—everything. All-inclusive. Because he is transcendental. In otherwise he is neither a brāhmaṇa, neither a śūdra, neither a... Yes. Nāhaṁ vipro na ca nara-patir na yatir vā. Neither of these. In other side he is everything. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. As Kṛṣṇa is sometimes cowherd boy, politician, sometimes dancing with, artist—He is everything, not one-sided. So all food is finished?

Press Conference -- December 16, 1976, Hyderabad:

Dr. Ramachandra: This is a purely religious movement.

Prabhupāda: That is right. They have nothing to do with politics. And if they found any politics, they can hang me. I shall go.

Dr. Ramachandra: I am doctor from Hyderabad, so I wanted to pay my respects to you.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Thank you very much.

Dr. Ramachandra: I am eye specialist practicing in Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: You are very qualified.

Dr. Ramachandra: With your grace. So I have been thinking of meeting you for a long time, and when I was told you are leaving tomorrow, then I said I would come and pay my respects to you.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Very good. Thank you.

Dr. Ramachandra: It's our luck that I could meet you. You are a great leader of, religious leader, you see, international. And you belong to order of the Caitanya Maṭha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Ramachandra: It's a great bhakti movement. So any services I am prepared to give for the āśrama, with your...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) So keep this card. The Dr. Ramachandra is ready.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa? He never commented on third chapter.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any chapter. It begins bhagavān uvāca. Now how he can describe Bhagavān? This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31).

Indian man: He used Bhagavad-gītā for political purposes.

Prabhupāda: That is, political purpose, you may. But even politically, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). "Fight. But always remember Me." That is politics. Kṛṣṇa never says that you forget and fight. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). This is Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa never says that "You give up politics." Actually, the Battle of Kurukṣetra is politics. But still Kṛṣṇa is there. How you can discard Kṛṣṇa?

Mr. Malhotra: Yes, battle of Kurukṣetra was fought...

Prabhupāda: Politics. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye. (BG 1.21) "Between the two soldiers, keep my chariot, my dear Acyuta." He is addressing Acyuta. Acyuta, Kṛṣṇa, agreed to become his chariot driver. Therefore he is purposefully using this word acyuta. "Because I know You are the Supreme Lord, and I am ordering You, but because You promised that You will carry my order, Acyuta, You never fail in Your word." So God's another name is Acyuta. God never falls down. This Māyāvādī theory that "I am God, now I am fallen down," That is wrong theory. How God can fall down? If God falls down He is not God. Dog falls down, not the God.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Human nature as it is, you can't... Unless there is some sort of a compulsion, whether in spiritual...

Prabhupāda: And in politics, might is right.

Guest (1): Of course. Survival of the fittest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In politics you cannot become...

Guest (1): A sādhu. It is absurd. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: That is absurd.

Guest (1): Two contradictory terms.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Arjuna was ridiculed. "What is this nonsense?" Kutas tvā kaśmalam idam: "You have come to fight. You are talking nonsense, that 'I will not fight.' " Kṛṣṇa did not approve.

Guest (1): He told... He defined "What is your dharma and what is niṣkāma akarma." So it's very difficult to define dharma, but once it is defined, there should be no difficulty.

Prabhupāda: No, dharma is there. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is dharma. And everything is cheating. That... Because we are teaching that, that only dharma is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are not very much liked. They are of opinion, "Why Kṛṣṇa is God? I have got this God. I have got this, so many incarnations."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I represent as it is, and it is being accepted. (Indians talking at once)

Guest (1): Swamiji, what is the way out now? We have understood the present position, and you have also realized. You have seen the... And I don't want to take... I know that this ten-minutes' talk will not bring any satisfaction on either side. Now that has put me into a new thinking, that she's presently more worried about...

Prabhupāda: That is a politics. You must be worried. You must be worried. That is material world. So so long you are in the material platform, you must be worried. There is no exception. And I have seen in that time, how much worried she was at that time. Yes. So it does not mean because she is Prime Minister, there is no worry. It is not possible.

Guest (1): She's very worried.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried.

D. D. Desai: More worried. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Everyone is very worried. That is described by Prahlāda Mahārāja. When Hiraṇyakaśipu... After all, they are father and son. He inquired from the son, "My dear son, what best thing you have learned?"S So he said, "My dear..." He did not say "My dear father." He said "The best of the asuras." He addressed his father, "The best of the asuras." Tat sādhu manye asura varya dehinam. "My dear the best of the asuras..." He was the best of the asuras. "So I think that is best education..." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehināṁ sadā samudvignam asad-grahāt. (break) We have got good rooms like this, not that one has to go to the forest. Even in the Vṛndāvana we have got very good room, but nobody's coming. This is the position. After fiftieth year, voluntarily one must commit civil suicide—no family. And that is Vedic. But he will think of family up to the point of being killed by this revolver. This is going on. Even Gandhi, what to speak of others. He presented himself as very tyāgī, but unless he was killed, he did not give up his ambition. "How my sons, how my countrymen will be happy?" And what happiness you can give? You are not God. Who is taking care of them? But this is māyā. He was thinking, "If I am not there, then whatever I have got, it will be finished."

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Somehow or other it is interesting.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's so full of...

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Otherwise why people take it? When I was... I thought that I am giving my imagination, who will take it? It is my imagination. Of course with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.

Hari-śauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men when they speak, it just comes out... It's just not practical or they don't know how to translate it into action.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). I've touched all the points in the modern...

Girirāja: It has a very nice purport.

Prabhupāda: Find out that. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanyaḥ...

Pradyumna: Oh, I know.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is taken as Hindu God. So I'm thinking of Hindu God. Why you are checking? (break) We are reading Bhagavad-gītā and killing Kṛṣṇa. This... Our national father is supposed to be a great devotee of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa is killed. Why the government does not take it seriously? Gandhi wanted Bhagavad-gita as guide. Why they are not taking?

Dr. Patel: That is the Vaiṣṇava (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: That is all bogus. Bogus. Simply bogus. Politics. In Gandhi's āśrama I saw not a single Vaiṣṇava or Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Photographs, you mean to say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "He's Vaiṣṇava." Bogus.

Dr. Patel: He never visited any temple.

Prabhupāda: Bogus! Simply politics.

Dr. Patel: He wanted to kill(?) other Muslims and all other... Especially untouchable.

Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all. That is... Nonviolence, at the same time cow-killing. This rascal, another rascal... You are observing Buddha-jayantī and daily cow-killing. As if Buddha, Lord Buddha, recommended cow-killing.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.

Rāmeśvara: The whole war of Kurukṣetra was just so Kṛṣṇa's devotees...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It was designed by Kṛṣṇa. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bas, finished, all the demons finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bas, finished." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin: "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Kṛṣṇa's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise without your help they are already killed." So... Kṛṣṇa... Paritrāṇāya... He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is another side of His business. (end)

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (1): Just a minute. Also India, in our country, in the recent history of our country, we had many cultured peoples like Gandhi and Patel. But how these two men became great, not others? Because only by their actions.

Prabhupāda: Our greatness in this country was considered on spiritual advancement.

Guest (2): Exactly. We Indian people, we know what is religion, not politics.

Prabhupāda: No. Politics is there. Politics means formerly the brāhmaṇas were the guide, teacher of the society, guide of the society. Brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas were not interested in politics. They would give advice to the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas would administer. Brāhmaṇas were not interested to take politics, from time immemorial, even during the time of Mahārāja Pṛthu. Not that the kṣatriyas were irresponsible, no. They were taking guidance from the learned brāhmaṇas, saintly persons, and they were ruling over. Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira was doing that. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was doing that. Lord Rāmacandra also.

Guest (2): During the present day, sir, to whom we will treat as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya and śūdra?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining. According to the symptom.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: What about the platform of just not killing anyone? Is there any credit to that?

Prabhupāda: You are not killed. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Who kills and who is killed?"

Satsvarūpa: But, say for political reasons, Stalin would kill.

Prabhupāda: No, that is politics, that.

Satsvarūpa: But Gandhi would say, "No, don't kill because..."

Prabhupāda: Gandhi's a rascal. Therefore he is failure. "In politics there is no violence"—that is another rascaldom.

Rāmeśvara: How has India improved by independence? What is the improvement? They are more godless than ever.

Prabhupāda: No, he... He... When the Hindus approached him that "You have got so much influence over the Muhammadans. Stop cow-killing," he replied, "How can I stop their cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. He accepted something as religion which is killing. He's such a rascal.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: They were all murdered.

Prabhupāda: It is due to this American CIA. Therefore I...

Rāmeśvara: Now they may again become lined up with Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: That is politics. Once you become strong; once I become... That is struggle. It will go on. You cannot stop.

Rāmeśvara: It's also commonly known that in the West the banks supplied money to Lenin to fight his revolution. They have no discrimination. If it seems like it is a good chance for making interest...

Prabhupāda: Therefore Hitler killed these Jews. They were financing against Germany. Otherwise he had no enmity with the Jews.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They were controlling the economy. That was his one thing.

Prabhupāda: And they were supplying. They want interest money—"Never mind against our country." Therefore Hitler decided, "Kill all the Jews."

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But it helps all the citizens if the devotees are ruling the kingdom.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is wanted. Therefore, if we become strong, we shall take over charge of government. It is not that we are entering into politics. We must! That is also one of the items of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People are misguided. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. They are being induced to remain in ignorance. Therefore we want, make our plan. Śoce: "I am thinking very seriously how to save them." Prahlāda Mahārāja says. That is Vaiṣṇava's business. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. "They are suffering." That is Vaiṣṇava, real Vaiṣṇava, not that "Now I am realized soul, sit down and..." That is also good, but better business is to think for others. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣu... (Bg 18.68), na ca tasmād. If you want to be really very dear to Kṛṣṇa, you must preach this philosophy vigorously, not that "I have got it. Who is going to take so much botheration? Let me sit down." Kṛṣṇa... Who can be better devotee than Arjuna? And why did he... He was, rather, avoiding the botheration. Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You must take the botheration." He chastised him, kutas tva kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame. "Rascal, what is this? You must take. You have to take this botheration." On this principle, at the age of seventy years, I took all the botheration—"All right." The other friends were thinking that "This man is going to die, and he is going to preach." (laughing) They said like that. And "All right. I shall die, I shall die for Kṛṣṇa's cause." So we have to face so many problems, botherations. That is natural. We should not be afraid of this.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: There is one book on modern religions, and he discusses yourself, Your Divine Grace, on one page, and he says that your politics are naive. He said, "It is naive, too innocent to think that we can unite the world this way under God."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: "But it's very complex situation that has to be dealt with."

Prabhupāda: Then why you are trying United Nation, rascal? It may be complex, but we must try for it in the proper way. That is humanity. Why you are attempting United Nation? You know it is complex. But you do not know how to unite. This is my position. Unite on Kṛṣṇa center. Then you'll be successful. You are already trying for uniting, unity, but you do not know how to unite.

Satsvarūpa: Just like you say there has to be a universal center.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: So therefore these four animals have been mentioned: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ (SB 2.3.19). And he is, this class of men, selecting a leader by vote, democracy. So this class man intelligence, just see. And what class of man he will select? And how we desire to be happy by such elected men who is elected by these dog, hog, camel and asses? Are there any intelligent? And you expect good government, peaceful state and... And the śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. Therefore the others, they went to see the lion. So dog, hog, camel, ass will... "Oh, he's a lion." But what is a lion? It is also an animal, big animal. That's all. Similarly, the so-called president and leader and Gandhi, they are also another animal, big animal. So does it mean an animal big and very powerful, he has got the human intelligence? This is civilization. And when you say the right thing, that human life is meant for understanding God and prepare for the next life—"brainwash." This is life. So remain like hog, dog, camel, and asses and go on, be engaged in politics and election—"Then you are right." And if you speak against this mode of civilization—"brainwash."

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Politics means always fight between the kṣatriya and kṣatriya.

Guest (1) (Indian man): Still, actually, with this nonviolence method, could get them, I mean, get the Britishers out from India.

Prabhupāda: No, you are not... Violence method. It is the Subash Bose's organization.

Guest (1): Said... That has got some...

Prabhupāda: No, it is circumstantial. Circumstantially means the Britishers were not at all concerned about the non... They knew that "We..."

Guest (1): Had to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight. So they have gained. You have not gained. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. They made so bitter relationship that they will perpetually fight. That is Gandhi's qualification. They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Bheda, bheda, bheda policy. This is called sandhyaṁ bheda. There are four policies.

Guest (1): That is Cāṇakya's nīti also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is bheda policy. That is going on in politics.

Guest (1): In America (Bengali) movement (Bengali) government (Bengali) support?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Government nei, public.

Guest (1): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Theoretically, if our principles are adopted by the American people in general, as my disciples have done, then their whole industrial structure will be broken.

Guest (1): Not actually. Don't affect so much because all are not going to be... Even in India it is not.

Prabhupāda: This is one thing. This is one thing, that... No, they are taking seriously. And another thing is that if the public opinion becomes in favor of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then they will get vote and they'll capture government, because it is republic. That is another point, another. The most important point is: these boys who come to me, they forget forever their families or father, mother. No family. That is their great shock.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Again. That's it. That is our proposal. We say, "You rascal, you don't be overintelligent. You submit to God. You'll be happy. Because you cannot become intelligent, you are rascal. So give up this rascaldom. sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), whatever you have created, all rascaldom. Simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Your science, your politics, your philosophy, your so on, so on, so on—all rascaldom. Sarva-dharmān. You are thinking that we have created so many humanitarianism, this ism, that ism, that." We say these are all rascaldom. The sooner you give up this habit, simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa, you...

Yogeśvara: So in other words, we're not advocating change of position. Just change of consciousness.

Prabhupāda: There is no change of position. You are rascal. You are thinking there is change of position. There is no change of position. The sun is everlastingly rising from the east. You cannot change that.

Yogeśvara: No, but let us say the people who are in Communist countries...

Prabhupāda: You bring any "ist." They are all rascals. Take it. Then you are intelligent. You can bring any ism, but they're all rascals. You cannot change the law of nature.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru." And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. That is there. You haven't got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence. And suppose Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Before that, Kṛṣṇa has described everything, why you should surrender to Kṛṣṇa. At last He says, "You surrender to Me." So there is no difficulty. Immediately Kṛṣṇa does not say, "You surrender to Me." But after describing everything—karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, so many things, politics, sociology, religion, everything—at last He says that "This is the most confidential part. You surrender unto Me."

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But what is the use of having big strong body if now they're using airplanes and tanks and guns.

Prabhupāda: That is your useless waste of time. Why? Therefore the war does not stop, unnecessary war, and such a big war, Kurukṣetra, in eighteen days it is finished. This is decision. And this is going on, continually war, strain, politics, diplomacy, lecture, Parliament. There is no finishing of war. There is no finishing. It will go on. Just like same example: If you keep the dogs as dogs, they'll going on barking. It will never finish. So this is the civilization of dog work. It is not human civilization. Therefore it is going on. War is not stopped. Where is stop? War is stopped? No. Going on. And it will go on because they are dogs. You cannot stop their barking. There are so many things. If we follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, then whole world will be... This is a fact. Now, how to implement it, that is another thing. It is a fact.

Hari-śauri: Because even the yavanas and mlecchas were following the kṣatriya system in Kṛṣṇa's time. Just like Jarāsandha. He had all the chivalrous respect of a kṣatriya even though he was a demon. But nowadays everybody's... No one is...

Prabhupāda: Everybody's śūdra. Nobody's brāhmaṇa, nobody's...

Hari-śauri: No.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems like that division was simply spiteful.

Prabhupāda: That is politics.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was no purpose to it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What could England gain from the separation?

Prabhupāda: Gain means they are now finished. They have gained this. They have no prestige, no money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was their gain from dividing India and Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, that is enviousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just spiteful enviousness.

Prabhupāda: Enviousness. Just like, you like..., who has done something wrong to you, you like to do some wrong, harm.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Jayatīrtha: Yes, this is not a nonviolent picture.

Prabhupāda: I do not know how he wanted to draw nonviolence from this idea. This is going on, distorting the real fact. Politics without violence is impossible. There is a Bengali proverb, Naste base gun tata:(?) "A girl has come to the stage for dancing, and she is pulling her veil." (laughs) She has to dance freely, and what is the use of...? Nasta base gun tata.(?) In politics nonviolence, there is no history. The Britishers took it an opportunity to continue their ruling.

Mahāṁśa: He wasn't even political man, because politics means there has to be violence.

Prabhupāda: No, impartially studying, he endeavored for upliftment of the South African Indians, South Africans, yes, Johannesburg.

Brahmānanda: In Durban he started.

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: None. So that twenty years, failure, and here also he started that nonviolence-thirty years. In 1917 he came here from Africa, and the nonviolent, noncooperation... Actually the Hitler's war in 1947 helped India to become independent, the Hitler's cooperation with Subash Bose, INA. When he organized the soldiers, then Britishers thought, "No more chance." Then they left India. Not for the nonviolence. These are artificial things, in politics nonviolence.

Mahāṁśa: You two were working together?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Mahāṁśa: Yourself and Gandhi were together for some time?

Prabhupāda: In the beginning I was, 1920. No, everyone, every young man joined. (someone yelling in background) What is that? So ārati you can join, yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything is complete by the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa. Simply we mismanage. That's all. I do not know why people are engaged with politics, fighting, and so on, so on. By Kṛṣṇa's grace everything is complete. You eat sufficiently, you be strong and keep your health good and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the arrangement. These rascals, they have created civilization, simply animosity-fighting, politics. This is Kali-yuga. Kali means simply unnecessarily fights. There is no need of fighting, but they'll create a situation, fighting. That's all. This is Kali-yuga, unnecessarily. Why politics? Why so much discussion, barking in the United Nations? Kṛṣṇa has given the formula. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). In America, Australia, Africa, they can produce so much grain that ten times of the population as it is now can be maintained. Similarly, Australia can produce ghee. So by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement everything is all right, the economic problem. Why they create this situation and occasionally fight and finish the whole...? Such a rubbish civilization, rākṣasa, unnecessarily increasing military power and spending all the revenues. Russia spends sixty-five percent-unnecessarily. And still starving. So this is mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina, only engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtina, and rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. He got the opportunity of this human life, and it misusing unnecessarily-narādhama. And their university education-māyayāpahṛta, useless knowledge, useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. Actually they have no knowledge. Why? The only fault is there is no God. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). So one... That is the basic fault. Everyone is trying: "There is no God. Science." This is the basic principle. So the whole human society is suffering on account of these fools and rascals. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is para-upakāra, how to bring them in peaceful condition, in normal mental condition, and make this life successful by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have to do it very carefully.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...the varṇāśrama established, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra-division, scientific division of the society. Ideal state. Just like the legislative assembly. They should be composed of men with complete brahminical culture. And the ministers, president, they should be kṣatriya, and the productive, vaiśyas, and balance śūdra, worker. Unless an ideal class of men is on the top of the state to give advice—just like Britishers, they assemble Parliament—there cannot be any improvement to the human society. All nonsense and rascals, simply by votes go to be member of the Parliament. They assemble. What they know? What they'll do? The whole world is mismanaged because there is no brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-dhitāya kṛṣṇāya govindā... I am proposing this because Kṛṣṇa consciousness means namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. That must be... The state must be in favor of brahminical culture and cow protection. Then everything will be all right. So Manipur is small state. If they agree, the leaders of the... It is not politics. It is betterment of the situation. And without brahminical culture, all these third-class, fourth-class, loafer class, simply by votes hooks and crooks and becomes president, Nixon and so on. Where is the betterment? It will never be.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Indira Gandhi goes, another Gandhi comes, another Gandhi goes, another Gandhi comes, another. That is the history, whole history of the world. There is nothing new. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Politics means chewing the chewed, that's all.

Mr. Koshi: Chewing the?

Prabhupāda: Chewing something, just like sugar candy. You have chewed it, taken all the juice, you have thrown it away. Another man is chewing it. It is like that. Indira Gandhi also promised so many things, and she is now out, and somebody is speaking something.

Mr. Koshi: Morarji now.

Prabhupāda: Anyone. And in some day he will not be there, somebody will come. That is the history of the whole world. But that will not benefit the human society, politics. It is useless. This knowledge will help make the solution. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). We are suffering in this material condition, and He is delivering from this. That is real upakāra. That's the repetition of history, politics.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I wanted to suggest that if he has some further questions, we could try to answer them, and then if there is still some unanswered...

Prabhupāda: No. He has no answer on this spiritual matter. He'll ask me some political... We have no function in politics.

Mr. Koshi: No, there was a few other questions regarding the Society.

Prabhupāda: The fundamental principle is that we are teaching about the owner of the body.

Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but what we are in the outside world... I am not in the Society. What I see outside is totally... You see, when I see a group of young people like these boys here dancing in the street, it is something jarring to my eyes. I am not used to it. What is the necessity for the chant and the...

Prabhupāda: That is going on. One man's food, another man's poison.

Mr. Koshi: No, no, there is a purpose behind it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Purpose... That is the way. That is the way.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Actually, a short time ago, everyone knew that these things were wrong, but now they are trying to pretend that it is not wrong. They are trying to forget.

Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā. This is the sample of the... But it will be done all round the world. This is a sample of that.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in today's evening news. That all the borders have been warned to be very careful.

Prabhupāda: The other son is already outside India?

Guest (1): No, he is out of politics. He is a wise man. He has not entered politics at all. Sanjiv.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is a pilot with Indian Airlines. He, I have never heard anything.

Guest (1): He never heard about any politics or anything. He is just like an ordinary citizen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They say he is not as smart as Sanjay. That means he is not as crooked. So he is out of politics.

Bhakti-caru: He ran the...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Guest (1): They have got. He is not living there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is a pilot with Indian Airlines.

Prabhupāda: That is honest life. Earn your livelihood. Who is the elder?

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): That I am doing at home.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say that we are inviting, people may come, live peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is an attempt. Otherwise, we could have built some apartment house... (break)...the J.P.?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.

Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.

Morning Talk -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are throwing five lakhs of rupees that could be well utilized every year.

Prabhupāda: We are not... We have no interest in politics. What interest do we have in this phantasmagoria? We are not so fools. And there are so many people, they are taking part in politics. Is this sane?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the argument I always use when we are preaching to get someone to join. They say "Well, we want to be a doctor or we want to be..." I say there are already so many millions of doctors, so many, but there is only...

Prabhupāda: And doctor is canvassing, "You become my patient."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday that man was canvassing you. That Āyur-veda man.

Prabhupāda: As soon as he wanted history I rejected him. He is not Ayurvedic. And Karttikeya was sorry that I did not give him for one and a half hour.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Karttikeya, the whole time he was very agitated.

Prabhupāda: So everyone who will come I will have to give one and a half hour?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wanted you to stop talking to the reporter and begin talking to the doctor. What good the doctor will do, but the reporter can do so much good.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) When I say do this, he can do that.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kindly help me.

Mr. Rajda: No, no, we will think ourselves duty-bound. Oh, I feel intensely about it. There is no question about it.

Prabhupāda: And I guarantee that if they take any part in politics, you can drive away immediately. They have no.... They have given everything. They are not thinking that they are Americans. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). This is the process of bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Upādhi. This is upādhi. I am living being, but I have got some designation, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." These are designation. So then they are M.P... This is designation. You are not M.P... You are living being, part and parcel of God.

Mr. Rajda: Correct.

Prabhupāda: And this designation can be moved, removed at any moment. Indira Gandhi, no more prime minis... Designation finished. So sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), when one become free all designation, tat-paratvena nirmalam, simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes purified. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhakti... Then bhakti begins.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "To Ratansingh Rajda, Member of Parliament, Bombay. Dear Sri Rajda, We thank you very much for visiting us at Hare Krishna Land and for sympathetically hearing our divine master Śrīla Prabhupāda. His Divine Grace mentioned several difficulties which are impeding his great work, and you have been kind enough to promise to remove these obstacles. 1) Our men are regularly being asked to leave India. How can we manage such important projects when our men are forced to leave? Every year we have to send so many men away from India and then again we have to bring them back. For every man who comes and goes like this, we have to spend Rs. 10,000, and in this way we are wasting not less than Rs. five to six lakhs each year. Our men should be given permanent residence in India. The United States Government granted Śrīla Prabhupāda a permanent residency visa so that he could fulfill his mission in the USA. Similarly, Śrīla Prabhupāda's foreign disciples should be given permanent residency in India. Śrīla Prabhupāda requires at least one hundred men to remain in India, and he is prepared to bring Rs. ten lakhs, foreign exchange, per month just to maintain them. They will not have to seek employment, they are not interested in politics, and they will not touch one paisa locally for their maintenance. Rather, they will bring money. Therefore we request that the government of India should grant permission for at least one hundred of our men. 2) Locally we are being troubled by the municipal corporation. The local councilor is trying to take over ten feet..." (break)

Mr. Rajda: ...evening. And we shall see what is in the meeting. And I am meeting the commissioner also on Tuesday. So...

Prabhupāda: Note it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll do that.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm putting in an envelope.

Prabhupāda: Bring. I want that at least at the weekend respectable gentlemen come here, live here, try to understand the philosophy, and if possible render some service. That's all. We have got now nice building. Every room is air conditioned. Not that you have to go to the jungle. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I said that my disciples rise at 3:30 and worship till 9:30. He said that he rises at 3:30 and three hours for... So I immediately said, "They are engaging twenty-four hours."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, we don't engage in politics for the other nineteen hours. Of course, I mean, I never would have said anything, but the fact is that this is not the business of one who is eighty-four years old, to be the prime minister. It is better if he were to take up preaching Bhagavad-gītā. You gave that advice to Gandhi. He could do more good then.

Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the important shastric references in regard to developing an article on cheating?

Prabhupāda: Hm? Where is authority, that you are speaking rightly? Just like in the law court, when they plead, they give the reference to the lawbook that... A good lawyer means he will give reference "Under section... This is my authority." That is authority. (break) (Hindi) Ap thik hai?

Girirāja: So this is Mr. Ram Jethmalani. He is the Member of Parliament representing this constituency. So he recently came from Detroit. He was teaching at the university there while this emergency was going on, and now he came back. So he mentioned his idea of helping the slum dwellers. So I have showed him that article, "One Hundred Million Harijanas Looking for a New Messiaḥ" and gave him a copy of the letter which Goswami Mahārāja wrote. In the meantime he was just busy with other functions. He didn't get a chance to go through it. He is very interested.

Prabhupāda: So we can uplift the position of the harijanas very easily, by this process of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. There is a song, Bengali song, vrajendra-nandana yei. You understand Bengali?

Ram Jethmalani: No.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is special strategy, that as far as possible, give them those who are educated, read then, give them chance to read. And those who are not, let them come, and music and dance. Everyone likes to do this. And take prasādam, feast, lecture. Common sense.

Guest (2): Politic of other.

Prabhupāda: Apart from, we are not concerned with politics. We are concerned with the madman. So what is this nonsense politics conducted by some big...? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). What is this politics, the democracy? Some animals voting another big animal, that's all. The leader is an animal, and the voters, they are animals. So what is the use of such politics? They remain animals. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. That is going on. You have got it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. I don't know if this is the right volume. It's the only one that resembles. I can't read Russian, so I don't know if that's...

Prabhupāda: Is that Russian?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have one book in Russian.

Prabhupāda: So in this way smaller books we can publish. (break) ...to Other Planets, similarly.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Which is also not a fact. Which is also not a fact.

Prabhupāda: I do not wish to discuss our...

Mr. Dwivedi: Because he tried to mix politics with religion...

Prabhupāda: Yes!

Mr. Dwivedi: And therefore...

Prabhupāda: It was failure.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...he could not succeed.

Prabhupāda: It was failure.

Mr. Dwivedi: If he had tried only religion or only social reform...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of religion. Religion is... Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), they are everything. Religion follows same thing, not that religion is impractical.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All violating. You see? I had been recently in Gandhi's āśrama at Trinoba(?). I do not wish to say, but they do not understand Gītā.

Mr. Dwivedi: Because they mixed politics with religion and wanted an adjustment...

Prabhupāda: It is not religion. Why you take...? Religion is also, we shall do. As soon as I say religion, you say, "I have got my religion." It is science. "Two plus two equal to four" is equally understandable by Hindus, by Muslim, by Christian. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone knows. Everyone should accept. "Because I am Hindu, therefore two plus two equal to five"—that cannot be. So Bhagavad-gītā was misrepresented that it is meant for the Hindus. If it is meant for the Hindus, why they are coming? What is the use? They were Christians. They were Jews. Why they are coming? It is a science. So we have to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is—science. It is religion. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). But they misunderstand religion. We described in a...

Mr. Dwivedi: And even the present brāhmaṇas also equally misunderstand. For instance, Gītā is compulsory in every institution right from the very beginning. So at one time, because it was compulsory for Muslims, even it was compulsory for the harijanas. I stood excommunicated for some time. Now sometimes complaint goes to the government, "What is solution?" And therefore they say, "Why government should hear you? You are complaining everybody." "This is not everybody. This is..." Gītā is no particular religion's book. It is a cosmopolitan...

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have no eyes to see. Why these people are accepting Gītā? They are not Hindus. They are coming from Christian family, Jewish family, Muhammadan family. They could not present. They had no power to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They are simply puffed up. So we have to develop that institution that it is meant for. In South Africa I was in a college for lecturing. There was a Arya-samaj. He says that "You are presenting Gītā. It is for the Hindus." "No, this is for everything, everyone. When Kṛṣṇa says that dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13), does it mean for the Hindus? The Muhammadan kaumāra does not become yuvaka? Or the Muhammadan yuvaka does not become old man? So why do you say like that?" Mūḍhas. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā generally accepts anyone.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But... So your duty is to cooperate. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). Living entities, Kṛṣṇa says, they are part and parcel. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body. It's duty, primary duty, is to cooperate what I say. I say the finger, "Come here." Immediately... That is the duty. That is cooperation. And I say the finger, "Come here," and finger goes anywhere, that is not cooperation. Similarly, whatever Kṛṣṇa says, you do it. That is cooperation. Then it will be successful. If you manufacture your own meaning, amendment, and your scholarship, nonsense, then you spoil. In politics, nonviolence? Hm? Just see. Do you think Gandhi became successful by nonviolence? Do you think? Violence. When Subhas Bose organized this I.N.A. it was successful. Otherwise he failed in South Africa; he failed in India.

Mr. Dwivedi: I had the privilege of being fairly nearly with Subhas Bapu. The last I met him was just some time before his going when he wrote a message...

Prabhupāda: He was... He was for...

Mr. Dwivedi: ...for my paper for all India. I do not know whether it was Subhas Bapu's influence or I do not know my own karmas, but at least in Gandhi...

Prabhupāda: That it is a fact.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."

Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt...

Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question... Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading... But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there. There is no...

Mr. Dwivedi: The buildings...

Prabhupāda: Simply it has to be repaired. Climate, I think, it is good, eh? Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Climate is fine, particularly of the place where we have our headquarters, very pleasant, in summer especially, very pleasant. We don't have bad nights.

Prabhupāda: Why not go? If we go there, eh? In this time?

Mr. Dwivedi: The... In the way it might not be so pleasant, but when we have reached there it is quite pleasant because we are at a height of about 684 feet, then surrounded by forest. So therefore we don't have this heat wave in that area.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And it is very nice place. How it could be developed as a Kṛṣṇa conscious center... But they have given up this idea. From externally... Now Vinoba Bhave is preaching Bhagavad-gītā pravacana how many years?

Mr. Dwivedi: Nearly forty-fifty years.

Prabhupāda: Fifty years. So what he has done? And within ten years what I have done?

Mr. Dwivedi: He has also put Gītā with politics.

Prabhupāda: Can I not say like that?

Mr. Dwivedi: You are... What you preach is unadulterated Gītā. He mixes it with politics.

Prabhupāda: That is my point.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) "I preach something nonsense, and I take Bhagavad-gītā." Why? Why you take Bhagavad-gītā? You... There are so many rascal philosophers. You also preach your own philosophy. Why do you take Bhagavad-gītā? And where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man: This, I think, they will be very active to know, I think.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is nonviolence in Bhagavad-gītā, in politics?

Kārttikeya: Nowhere.

Prabhupāda: No. Even that incidence I told you, the, Duryodhana said, "You have come to, for kingdom? Yes, you can take." So he said, "No, no, no. That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. "Oh, Duryodhana, you are so gentleman. Let us settle up. No, no, no." "No! That will be settled in the battlefield." This is Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) "No, we have come to the battlefield. We must decide by fighting." This is kṣatriya. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. (Hindi) This is teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. Then where this is nonviolence come in the Bhagavad-gītā? Apalāyanam. (Hindi) "Come on. Fight. You have no weapon? Take from me." This is kṣatriya. What is the definition?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṣatriya?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there. They are coming and going like so many insects. Napoleon was there. Who cares for them? We are licking up their so-called activities: "Oh, Napoleon was so great. Gandhi was so great." And what he has done? The dog dancing. Who can understand that unless one is Kṛṣṇa conscious? What he has done actually? Has he stopped death? No. Population, birth, sterilization... Will they be able to stop it? Simply manufacturing concoction and jumping like a... That's all. And if you say the real thing, upadeṣo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye, they'll become angry.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you've been mentioning so many times about how foolish the..., so many people are. Under the banner of nationalism they are basing their whole life.

Prabhupāda: But they'll not hear. If you forbid the dogs, "Don't bark," it is like that. Why waste time? He'll go on with all politics. Negative, as soon as you say, they'll neglect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some subject matter...?

Prabhupāda: It requires training.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some subject matter...?

Prabhupāda: Just like so much training we are giving; still, there is falldown. So simply by saying...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you had... There was a newspaper article about a few weeks ago, and you had said that something could be written on this subject. That's the only reason I...

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Hm.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any subject that would be good to write on?

Prabhupāda: Oh, we have got so many subjects, positive. Read our books and present it in a different way. You can write intelligently. That's not bad.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So take the perfect knowledge. Follow it. You become perfect. Perfection means... That is also stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Real misery is that I am eternal... As God is eternal, I am also eternal. So now I am subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease, due to the physical body. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam: (BG 13.9) "You are trying to mitigate all kinds of sufferings. So why don't you see the real suffering is here, janma." How to stop this repetition of birth—that is your real problem. But they have made problems, so-called politics, philanthropy, altruism, humanitarianism, this, that, that, so many. But real problem remains, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. This is the defect. They won't take what is the problem, how to solve it. Everything is in oblivion, ignorance. What can be done? Although there is knowledge, there is light, there is practical example, they won't take it. What can be done? So we shall request you all, please don't waste your time in this way, that way, and ultimately come to the conclusion, zero. Take instruction of Bhagavad-gītā in all regards and be happy. It is not difficult. Practical examples are there. Before me, ten years before, whole world, foreigners, there was not a single Kṛṣṇa conscious. Whole history. Now you'll find thousands. Why? I have not manufactured (indistinct), giving them. I have given them Kṛṣṇa. That's all.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Devotee (4): Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Mayā te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Now, Kṛṣṇa never said, although in Bhagavad-gītā yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in any way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gītā in a new way—more than Kṛṣṇa. These rascals are more than Kṛṣṇa. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. This is the difficulty in India. (Hindi) Vyāsadeva says, bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi) Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. (Hindi) Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3). The system of Bhagavad-gītā, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was gṛhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyāsīs, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brāhmaṇa. He was kṣatriya, politician, gṛhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Kṛṣṇa selected him. (aside:) Hm, don't do it.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So without this faith, nobody can achieve the association of Kṛṣṇa. There are two things. You become associate of Kṛṣṇa, or you become associate of this material world. So if you do not become associate of Kṛṣṇa, then the next step is this association of material world. And association of material world means accepting one type of body and enjoy or suffer for some time; then you get another body. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Now we have to make our choice, whether you want to stop this material way of life and attain the eternal spiritual life...

mām upetya punar janma

duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam

nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ

saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ

(BG 8.15)

If you get the association of Kṛṣṇa, then you haven't got to come here, this material world. Duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam. Either you take birth in a very rich, aristocratic family, born in the upper planetary system as demigods-Brahmā, Indra, Candra, like that—or you take your birth, an insignificant ant; wherever you are in material body, it is duḥkhālayam. That you cannot avoid. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And you cannot make any compromise that "Never mind it is very much miserable. I shall enjoy." So that also will not be allowed. Aśāśvatam. Your tendency is to live forever. So that will not be allowed. Aśāśvata. So this requires knowledge, intelligence, that "If I am eternal," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), "I am not destroyed even this body is destroyed," then you should seek after eternal happiness. Why temporary? That is not in your interest. That happiness is there when you go back to Kṛṣṇa; otherwise not. These are the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. So if we do not try to understand the real purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, and if we theorize, "Bhagavad-gītā means nonviolence. Bhagavad-gītā means to become patriot," these are materialism. We should avoid this wrong interpretation, misguiding direction of blind leaders. We'll not get any benefit out of it. So we are trying to rectify this. That's all. Everything is there. Any question is solved by Kṛṣṇa. Politics, economics, religion, culture, philosophy—everything is discussed very thoroughly.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: We have no other business. We want to see people live, eating very nicely nutritious food, keeping good health. But unnecessarily artificial things, bothering, that we don't want. Keep your health very nice, live for as many years as possible, and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, next life, you go back to home, back to Godhead, permanent life. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). This we want to give. There is no cheating. There is no politics, no personal ambition fulfilling. This is our mission. Try to convince them. There is not a little tinge of personal sense gratification. This is our... Now can you point out, any one of them, that "Here is the point, the personal sense gratification"? We are talking amongst ourselves, so if there is any flaw, you can point out. Can anyone? That "Here is the point, personal sense gratification"? There is no such things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. Our only ambition is we live among devotees and execute the mission of our predecessors, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa. This is our ambition.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation)

Jayapatākā: Election haya.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There are nine state elections now.

Girirāja: But he's not going there. In Maharastra there's no election, and he's not... He's somewhat retired from politics.

Prabhupāda: No... (indistinct) (Hindi conversation)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And they want us to give everything typewritten to them. (Hindi) So I calculated, it will take more time than just doing by hand.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Allahabad is the only hope.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Ghosh... (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with Gopāla Kṛṣṇa) So you do not expect any good things from them. Otherwise you will not have any progress.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they paid.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That Dr. Sharma here, he was saying that the English, they took advantage of..., I think it was either Cāṇakya Paṇḍita or one other book about military ruling, some book. Every one of them would have a copy translated into English. They'd all keep a copy of it on their desk, how to subdue by diplomacy and politics. They were all told to learn this book.

Prabhupāda: Saṁrāṭ Veda(?). That is another.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I'm thinking of the title of our conference as "Bhaktivedanta Vijñāna Conference."

Prabhupāda: They'll take it farce, that "Bhaktivedanta is no a vaijñānī."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be scientific conference.

Prabhupāda: It may be, but they will take it lightly because "Bhaktivedanta Swami is not a scientist."

Bhakti-cāru: Yeah, but you are above science, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, this will be "Bhaktivedanta Vijñāna Conference." That includes everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they did what the Curzons suggested.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they know. And besides that, they did not exploit. Whatever enjoyment they did—within India, not that taking away the money outside India. Therefore it was very good relationship. And Indian people, they do not mind who is king. "We pay our tax. That's all." That is the attitude from the very beginning. The general people, they did not mind whether Kurus or war(?) will reign over or the Pāṇḍavas. "We don't mind. You become fight. You become king. We give our tax. That's all." So there was no fight with the subject between king and citizens. This democracy is a demon-crazy. It has no value. It is simply waste of time and effort and no feeling, demon-crazy. I do not know who introduced this. In India still there is no demon-crazy. Indian king always. Everyone is taking part in politics. What is this nonsense? It is meant for the kṣatriyas. They can fight and defend. The rascals, bhangis, chamars, and they are also in politics. Harijanas... Every one of them vote, and everyone has got the right to become king, minister. Not this. The real thing they are missing, the mode of life, the aim of life. (break)...care. Everyone is theorizing, everyone is educated, and everyone is, they're hippie. That's all.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Indian man (1): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That I know because people are now debauch and uneducated. So they want their son to be debauch and uneducated, Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu did not want a child like Prahlāda. It was there formerly the misunderstanding took place. Prahlāda wanted to satisfy Nārāyaṇa, and he wanted to become a devotee of Nārāyaṇa. The father is asura. He wanted: "What is this nonsense, to become devotee? I wanted politics, diplomacy, cheating. You are studying." Presently there is a class of men, Hiraṇyakaśipu. They do not like to see their sons become Prahlāda. And our ideal is to create Prahlāda. It doesn't matter there are many Prahlādas. At least there must be... So we have got... How many rooms we have got?

Devotee (2): (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: At least one dozen rooms. (background talking) Twenty-six. So if fifteen rooms are taken by the Americans... How many students will be accommodated in one room?

Devotees (2): Four to five.

Prabhupāda: So fifteen to five, 250. At least 150 students you can accommodate them, nice. So arrange for that. And throughout India and the whole world you cannot bring 250? So is it very difficult to bring 250 students? So what kind of managers you are? So these things should be considered. (bad tape) (break) So if you have got any other questions, you can ask me. But first business is to bring students. We are open to the whole world, India also. Our society has got so many children. They are doing there, and some of them may come here. In this way it must be filled up with students. That is first business. Then manager arrange. "This manager will be in this room; that manager..." That is secondary. (laughs) First of all you must have students to manager over.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it. This Sanjay Gandhi ruined the whole Congress organization, and he was being worshiped. Just see practically. It is due to him that the old, oldest political party, Congress, is ruined. And he was being worshiped. This is society's position. And Morarji Desai, he's now prime minister, he was put into jail. This is going on. This is the example to learn. For nineteen months he was put into jail. How much it is troublesome. If I am asked that "For so many months you cannot go out of this room," I'll become mad.

Meeting With Governor of Tamil Nadu -- July 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because every year I am losing five to six lakhs of rupees for their going, again coming. Just like he's acting my secretary. Now his visa is finished. He has to go, and again he has to come back. And that means ten thousand, more than ten thousand. So in this way so many workers are...

Governor: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: So they will never do anything harm and never take part in politics.

Governor: I know it. I know it.

Prabhupāda: So kindly try to help.

Governor: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Governor: So may I take leave? You also take rest?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm, don't touch politics.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, all right. We should stay clear of the government. They are too dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Cultural... We, our culture and philosophy. To be arrested is not new thing for politicians.

Haṁsadūta: She also said in that speech that in India it's not a shame to be arrested. In India this is not considered something bad. It's acceptable. And it's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Brahmānanda: The governor who came to see you in Bombay, practically his only qualification is that he was arrested. He was in jail for nineteen months. Before, he was a very small man. Now he's a big man simply because he was in jail for nineteen months.

Haṁsadūta: The new prime minister, we met him a few days after he was inaugurated. We gave him Kṛṣṇa book and a nice letter. He doesn't smoke or drink. He's a Buddhist. He seems to be a, relatively speaking, a nice man. But he's quite old. He's also seventy years old. But, Prabhupāda, eventually, our movement practically around the world will attract the attention of the government.

Brahmānanda: They will not like.

Haṁsadūta: They won't like it. Just like Germany, it's actually the government. The people are innocent. But these governments, they can see the danger in Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Bali-mardana: Would you like Haṁsadūta to chant some more?

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm. Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually they would even give us permanent residency, but they are scared that if they give it to us they will have to give it to everybody else. So therefore they're not giving it to us.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. We have got big establishment and our, these European and American young boys, they have been trained up. Otherwise, how could I manage? We have nothing to do with politics. Rather, we are giving social service. What we'll do, politics? It is not our business. There are so many people. So the government should give us chance to organize a society for the highest benefit of human being. And they can see from our books what is our idea. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...printing books and exporting these books, and this way we're earning so much foreign exchange for the Indian economy. They liked it.

Prabhupāda: Did you show them the invoice of what book already we have got?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I told him the amount. I told him this year we have orders for Rs. twenty-five lakhs, and I said, "This is just the first year, and worldwide we print over eight crores. So this is just the beginning." So they liked it. And I also gave him the Hindi Bhāgavatam like you had told me. And he turned out... This man who is handling our case is a Marwari, Mr. Pandy. So Marwaris are very pious. They're better than these others. So he liked the Hindi Bhāgavatam very much. So I gave him the Hindi Bhāgavatam and the English. (break)

Prabhupāda: You are not to be gagged anymore?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Trivikrama: Not to be gagged. (laughter)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That was our biggest problem. The president of India is presently in Hyderabad, so Mahāṁśa Mahārāja was in Delhi, and we have a life member, Panilal Peddy in Hyderabad, Polareddy, who knows the President very well. So I asked Mahāṁśa Mahārāja to go with Polareddy to the President to see if he will come to Bombay to inaugurate our temple. Also we are thinking of inviting some foreign ministers of countries like Nepal, which is a Hindu kingdom, and Mauritius. Because if these foreign ministers or some minister from these countries come, then it will lend more credit, and we'll get better coverage.

Prabhupāda: You can show our South African success.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal with them. They want to enter into our management.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm just thinking about looking... I want to read our memorandum, because as far as I remember, the life members have the right to vote in our Society. That may be one way. They may read the memorandum and see that "We can vote." Then, by doing some politics, they create some difficulty by voting and put one of these materialistic men in charge. Good reason to remain with us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They won't do anything while you are present. It's better that you should remain with us. Then they won't be able to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will protect you. Try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very politically minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not at all interested in the Bhagavad-gītā. And that purport I read was perfect. That purport that I read was all about doing some nonsense interpretation. That's exactly what they do. Unwilling to admit the Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, but enjoying the property of Kṛṣṇa—that's their business.

Brahmānanda: They do not believe in God.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're atheists. So we'll deal with them very carefully, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.