Political (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"political" |"political" |"political" |"politically"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So, if he's trying for becoming liberated, it is understood that he was not liberated.

Dr. Patel: He must have been disillusioned by all this. He has really done work in this way that anybody would be disillusioned.

Prabhupāda: Now, our point is that if you are not liberated, how you can become leader? That is cheating.

Dr. Patel: This is the (indistinct). The political, socio-political... I don't know the sort of...

Prabhupāda: Our point is that if you do not get knowledge from liberated person, that knowledge is useless. That is cheating. (break) It is very easy. Just like a child. If he takes your direction, he liberated, and if he acts according to his childish nature, then he's conditioned. If you take Kṛṣṇa's instruction, then you are liberated. If you manufacture your own idea, then you are conditioned. Two things. Child is not actually liberated. He is child. But because he takes blindly the direction of the father, he's liberated. That is mām eva ye prapadyante. Anyone who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and strictly follows what Kṛṣṇa says, then he is liberated. Otherwise not. If he manufactures idea, then he's conditioned.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example. He said, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But when Nityānanda Prabhu was injured, He became so angry, He immediately said, "Bring my cakra. I shall kill the Jagāi-Mādhāi." So at that time He's not tṛṇād api sunīcena. That is krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we have this kāma, krodha, moha, everything, whatever sense activity we have got. When they are utilized for Kṛṣṇa, then it is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena (CC Madhya 19.170). Now there is fight... Just like political fight. In the political fight both the parties, they are trying to get supremacy of their own sense gratification. But here the fight, Rāma-Rāvaṇa..., Hanumān's krodha was not for himself. He did not want the Laṅkā kingdom. But because Rāmacandra wanted that "This man should be punished," he cooperated: "Yes." So this is spiritual. In this way, when we purify all our activities, all our sensual activities, then it is right. Otherwise... Just like Arjuna. He purified his senses. A Vaiṣṇava is naturally nonviolent, but in order to satisfy Kṛṣṇa he fought. That is purified. So we have to purify. Our activities cannot be stopped. That is not possible.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, our former camp, last time...? So this is not so good?

Gurudāsa: Location was better. But our living is better this time. Living is better, but location was better last time.

Prabhupāda: That location cannot be had. What is the reason?

Gurudāsa: Well, first of all, when I came they already settled it up. There's nothing I can do, you know. I said immediately, "This is not such a good location." And Bhāgavata said, "I did not know. I saw it on the map. I had no experience." So I didn't blame him because he didn't know. So they said that "You will draw people, and so we thought we would put others..." I think it is political.

Hari-śauri: "You draw more people, so you can go out of the way."

Prabhupāda: Political?

Gurudāsa: Yes. I think that many people were pushing for good positions, and we did not push, and... Last year was good, but, of course, the saṅgam has shifted a little. The saṅgam has shifted to the island where we are. The governor's camp is on the island. And there's some people. Maharishi is on the island. It's just I didn't want to say it's a wonderful location and then you come there and see that it's a little bit far off. I wanted to tell you...

Prabhupāda: Only it is far off.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Under false pride, he is thinking, "I am everything." Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti... (BG 3.27). "I can do anything by science, by this technology." That's... Vimūḍhātmā, great rascals. And these great rascals, they are leading the world. Therefore people are in darkness. They have become leaders, the so-called scientists and educationists and political leaders. All set of rascals, and they have become leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are blind, and they are leading other blind men, so people are kept in darkness, and the opportunity of this human life is lost. By nature's way, by evolutionary process, we get this human form of life. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). Manuṣya, arthadam. Prahlāda Mahārāja says durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma. Such life, important life, they are wasting like cats and dogs. So this is education; this is advancement. People are not given the opportunity to utilize this valuable life for understanding higher things. This is plight of this civilization.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Simple and it is natural also.

Hari-śauri: The desire for good leadership is there, so if we present good leaders, then they'll naturally take.

Prabhupāda: Our leaders must be very good.

Hari-śauri: That means we have to move into political circles (train starts moving) and do a lot of preaching on there.

Prabhupāda: If you work strictly on your principles, then everyone...

Rāmeśvara: In America there is a rule that there is separation of church and government.

Prabhupāda: It is not church.

Rāmeśvara: But they think of us...

Prabhupāda: Not stereotyped church.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, one day, two days, we give prasādam. But regularly we give prasāda and they'll remain lazy.

Rāmeśvara: So in Australia they kicked out the government, completely kicked them out.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Rāmeśvara: And had a new government formed, because they had created a huge debt, federal debt. They were spending much more money than they had, and they were simply increasing the taxes more and more, and the people just kicked them out.

Prabhupāda: It is closed?

Hari-śauri: Yes. The year before they got kicked out, I was distributing magazines at one political rally. The Prime Minister came to Perth. And when he came there all the farmers came, and they were so angry, they were throwing rotten eggs at him and tin cans and all kinds of things.

Prabhupāda: The farmers.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Rāmeśvara: They devalued the Australian dollar very much. The Australian dollar used to be worth maybe...

Prabhupāda: More than American dollar.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: We shall take every opportunity. We are the best opportunists. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu... This is ānukūla. This is favorable for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We shall immediately accept. It doesn't matter what it is. We do not depend on the public opinion—"This is good" or "This is bad." Our "good" "bad" is: if it is favorable for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is good; otherwise bad.

Rāmeśvara: So it seems that as our movement grows more and more...

Prabhupāda: Strong.

Rāmeśvara: ...then America will more and more be considering active stopping of Communism. It'll be logical.

Prabhupāda: Everything will be stopped, all bogus social, political or religious systems. They will be all stopped.

Rāmeśvara: Then this will be a natural development of the growth of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Two things: paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). As the duṣkṛtā—na māṁ duṣkṛtā mūḍhāḥ—will be reduced, the sādhu will increase. Or the sādhu will increase, the duṣkṛta will decrease.

Rāmeśvara: This conflict will be global. It will affect the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That doesn't matter.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You are not killed. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, "Who kills and who is killed?"

Satsvarūpa: But, say for political reasons, Stalin would kill.

Prabhupāda: No, that is politics, that.

Satsvarūpa: But Gandhi would say, "No, don't kill because..."

Prabhupāda: Gandhi's a rascal. Therefore he is failure. "In politics there is no violence"—that is another rascaldom.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Bhāgavata: How did Subash Bose get from India to Germany?

Prabhupāda: That is also political. He was, what is called, interned at home.

Bhāgavata: By the British. Kept in his house.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So there was the minister Nizamuddin, I think, he helped him to go out. He was going for evening walk with police force and other. So it became accustomed. Police became lenient, in the meantime slipped. And in a dress of a Kābuli, Kābuli-wālā, Pāṭhan he crossed India. In this way he went there.

Bhāgavata: I heard he took the dress of a Muslim?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is called... Yes. This is called pāṭhan. So after going outside India, he organized this INA, Indian National Army. And Hitler helped him. Tojo also wanted to help him, but he had a plan.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi is a Gujarati.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he went to South Africa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. South Af... He had no practice here. One attorney, he told me in Bombay that "Your Gandhi was waiting for cases here, sitting in this chair." He was not even successful lawyer. Then he got a case in Africa. He thought it wise, "Let me go there." And there, instead of becoming a lawyer, he became a political agitator. So to take equal status for the Indians he fought there. And that was failure. Still it is going on. They are very determined not to give any advantage to anyone except these whites.

Hari-śauri: They know as soon as they give little leeway, then their whole government will be finished.

Prabhupāda: Very strict. Still, they purchase my books.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We cannot understand what is the position of this land acquisition. They'll remain silent?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's some political thing behind it. That's sure.

Prabhupāda: The political was Ramakrishna Mission and Tīrtha Mahārāja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Ramakrishna Mission. Envious. Even though they're not near here, still they can understand how prominent we would become.

Prabhupāda: We have already become more than, more important than.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yāmuna-tīra-bana-cārī. Rādhā-mādhava kuñja-bihārī, yāmuna-tīra-bana-cārī. So Yamunā is spiritual. Yāmuna-tīra is spiritual. The varieties, the Māyāvādī cannot understand. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). They want varieties, but don't accept spiritual variety. Therefore again material life. No other alternative. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanti. Again material varieties, philanthropic work, political work, this work, that work. First of all they give up-brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, the jagan mithyā. And again they come out to open school. Why you come here again? Āruhya kṛcchreṇa param..., patanty adhaḥ. Why? Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ. They could not capture the spiritual varieties. Anādṛta. As soon as there is spiritual varieties they think it is māyā. That is Māyāvāda. There is no māyā. Spiritual variety, there is no māyā. Variety is the mother of enjoyment.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If they give asylum in India, that is very good.

Hari-śauri: That means they can stay here, and do their devotional...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...service, and we need men here anyway.

Prabhupāda: It is very good.

Ādi-keśava: Because they... It is also good tactic. It makes the government not want this to happen. It makes them look bad that someone has to get political asylum from America.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Because they pride themselves on freedom.

Prabhupāda: They get prestigious loss, loss of prestige.

Ādi-keśava: Yes. When this one girl Kulaja... She is now in Toronto, and she got...

Prabhupāda: And Indian government will be convinced that we are not CIA.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I do not know how he wanted to draw nonviolence from this idea. This is going on, distorting the real fact. Politics without violence is impossible. There is a Bengali proverb, Naste base gun tata:(?) "A girl has come to the stage for dancing, and she is pulling her veil." (laughs) She has to dance freely, and what is the use of...? Nasta base gun tata.(?) In politics nonviolence, there is no history. The Britishers took it an opportunity to continue their ruling.

Mahāṁśa: He wasn't even political man, because politics means there has to be violence.

Prabhupāda: No, impartially studying, he endeavored for upliftment of the South African Indians, South Africans, yes, Johannesburg.

Brahmānanda: In Durban he started.

Prabhupāda: Ah, in Durban. That was failure. The Indians haven't got any position still.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Five thousand. Is that education? Better not to be educated. Those who are not educated, they purchase ten rupees' worth of potato and sit down anywhere and half... (laughter) Five rupees. Yes.

Guest (1): All vegetable are...

Prabhupāda: You take some dāl. Go to house to house, dāl. They have no scarcity. And after spending so much money, living at the cost of fathers, mothers—unemployed. No job. No food. Then plan something, Naxalite, this party, that party. Join some political movement and help Indira Gandhi. They are paid to make propaganda. They are paid. And they earn money by smuggling.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That plan sentence.(?)

Girirāja: Yeah. And that road, that ten feet.

Prabhupāda: What benefit they will get?

Girirāja: No, only harassment, they have... They have nothing to gain actually. And everyone knows it. But they are just so weak and political minded that they don't want to stand up against Mattrey, the officers. Anyway, I think I should go now then.

Prabhupāda: He is coming?

Girirāja: Yes. I'll bring him here so there will be no unnecessary waiting. And...

Prabhupāda: What time?

Girirāja: By eight at the latest. We'll try for earlier also. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no way to engage them to work properly?

Saurabha: Yes. At the moment I have... It is going nicely. I have been with people in Makrana and about forty people here which is very... I don't think there are many projects in India where they have so many. But there are always things happening. Political sometimes. Sometimes they ask a lot of money. Because they are all related. They are all family members. Like one big family. So if something happens and they are not pleased with it, then they, everyone...

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement so that they are not displeased.

Saurabha: Yes, I am very careful, and at the moment it is going very nicely.

Prabhupāda: So keep that standard. Money scarcity we shall not allow. We shall put.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Mr. Rajda also mentioned that he wanted to visit the Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Give him good reception.

Girirāja: Actually, I was thinking, after he comes on the 8th, he is going back again on the 14th.

Prabhupāda: Immediately inform Vṛndāvana, our Akṣayānanda, that this man should be very well received.

Girirāja: I was thinking that unless I go and bring him, he might be too busy with the political affairs.

Prabhupāda: So what you are to go? Where you want to go?

Girirāja: So what I was thinking, if you agree, is to go to Delhi for a few days, and he could introduce me to the pious members of Parliament, and then we could organize a whole group, and I could bring them there.

Prabhupāda: Do the needful. Go. At least, in India, there must be this spiritual institution. The whole world may take advantage of it. What is this cats' and dogs' race civilization? Is that civilization? Here is civilization, Bhagavad-gītā. Basic principles of civilization. So India should maintain this. People may... There are so many big universities. A student may go or may not go, but the university must be maintained. Because there is no student, therefore university closed. No. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness institution must be maintained for the benefit of the whole world. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). They do not know how nature's law is working.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: This support that you want... People have not taken sufficient interest in this distribution.

Prabhupāda: Because they have been taught like that.

Mr. Koshi: Taught to receive, not to give.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have been taught to become group of dogs and crows. That's all. These political party.

Mr. Koshi: You are against politicians.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are not against, neither for. But these things will go on. This is going on since the creation, but that will not help. There have been, in other countries there has been Napoleon, there has been Hitler, there has been Mussolini, there has been Churchill. In India also we had many leaders like Gandhi and others. So what contribution they made? People are suffering.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Koshi: What is your day like, typical day? In the morning, what time you get up? Your day, how do you spend the day?

Prabhupāda: How can I say? I have got so many things.

Mr. Koshi: But do you receive visitors most of the time, or do you do a lot of reading?

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am sometimes receiving important visitors. Just like you are editor, if you understand, you can, if you like, there will be so many gains, beneficial. Therefore I...

Mr. Koshi: Do you take interest in the political happenings?

Prabhupāda: That will go on.

Mr. Koshi: No, but do you take interest?

Prabhupāda: Indira Gandhi goes, another Gandhi comes, another Gandhi goes, another Gandhi comes, another. That is the history, whole history of the world. There is nothing new. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Politics means chewing the chewed, that's all.

Mr. Koshi: Chewing the?

Prabhupāda: Chewing something, just like sugar candy. You have chewed it, taken all the juice, you have thrown it away. Another man is chewing it. It is like that. Indira Gandhi also promised so many things, and she is now out, and somebody is speaking something.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is good. Unless you become brāhmaṇa, real brāhmaṇa, śama, dama, titikṣā, how you will understand? We are not for the hogs, dogs, cats. Therefore it is sometimes said that without becoming brāhmaṇa, nobody should try to understand Vedas. What he will understand? Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Dhīmahi. This word is used because it is meant for the brāhmaṇas. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ... dhīmahi. Dhīmahi. Dhīmahi is gāyatrī-mantra. It is chanted by the brāhmaṇas. That word is used in Bhāgavatam also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I wanted to suggest that if he has some further questions, we could try to answer them, and then if there is still some unanswered...

Prabhupāda: No. He has no answer on this spiritual matter. He'll ask me some political... We have no function in politics.

Mr. Koshi: No, there was a few other questions regarding the Society.

Prabhupāda: The fundamental principle is that we are teaching about the owner of the body.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Actually, a short time ago, everyone knew that these things were wrong, but now they are trying to pretend that it is not wrong. They are trying to forget.

Prabhupāda: They can do, all their political divisions. These rascals, they can do. Anything. They have no principles, no morality, no standard of morality, nothing. Simply all rogues and thieves. It will more and more. All rogues and thieves will take part in politics. That is stated. Dasyu dharmeṇa. Just like dasyu, the burglar, the thieves, they have got organization how to get money. So they, the government, they'll be rogues and thieves. And whenever there is necessity of money, then tax. You work hard; they will tax. Organized burglars, organized guṇḍās. And Indira was doing that. Indira and company. Take the power and club(?) them and do whatever you like. She is a prostitute; her son is a guṇḍā. This is the sample of the... But it will be done all round the world. This is a sample of that.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They have been made fools. There was monarchy. If there was political fighting between the monarch, fighting between two kings, and the general public, "We have no concern with this. Whoever you become king, you take the tax." That's all, finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And the king will protect us."

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We don't care which one." That was a nice system.

Prabhupāda: Very nice system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unnecessarily people were not being killed.

Prabhupāda: And one fourth, what you have produced, give one fourth to the king. "You come here. See, what I have produced. You take one fourth."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even in Europe that system was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was the world system.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There was fighting between two political parties. The cultivator is working on the field. One party soldier and, "Where is the other party's soldiers?" "I have seen, they have gone this way." The soldiers of the king, let them fight. Therefore all the soldiers, they assembled in Kurukṣetra. It had nothing to do with the public. Fighting is going on, killing is going on in that big place. They were peaceful. "You conquer or either Kauravas. We shall pay tax. That's all." Why the public should be drawn?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nowadays they drop one atom bomb, a whole half the country, half the people destroyed.

Prabhupāda: Then whole meeting, people are coming, Russian people. When Indira is empowered they are coming to hear her, and she is gone. Rascals. What is the value of their vote? Sometimes giving vote here, sometimes giving vote there.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And they are doing it with the money which was given in good faith to Kṛṣṇa. That's very objectionable.

Prabhupāda: No, objectionable... The rākṣasas... Just like Kṛṣṇa was there within the womb of Devakī. Kaṁsa imprisoned. So the brilliance of the body of Devakī could not be seen by others, because imprisoned. So if Kṛṣṇa comes from the womb of Devakī, and He will come, similarly if by your endeavor Kṛṣṇa comes in this movement, then these Kaṁsas will be destroyed. He will kill. That day will come when we shall take all the political posts. That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. That is battle of Kurukṣetra. "Take it from Duryodhana. Give it to Yudhiṣṭhira, Arjuna." If you go on steadily, that will be... And all these demons, Kaṁsa, Bakāsura, Aghāsura, sakala incarnations, swamis, yogis... They are Aghāsura and Bakāsura. Just like Kṛṣṇa had to kill so many asuras, disturbing element. You become under some Aghāsura.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why they should accept this? And this is one man's attempt.

Mr. Rajda: It has got to be institutionalized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not make that? This political change, this political situation change, it will go on. Today you are powerful. Tomorrow I am powerful. That does not make any difference. Indira Gandhi was so powerful. In one day everything finished. So it may be finished, my position. Mohitaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam (BG 7.13). Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. They do not know, behind these all activities there is a person who can do anything He likes. So what about to know about Him? So these things are there in India. The knowledge is not secret. It is open. So without distorting it, without breaking it and spoiling it, why not give it as it is for the benefit of the whole humanity? You are young man. You can think over.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So his wife also...

Mr. Rajda: But now, poor fellow, he's also going. That is his fate.

Prabhupāda: That's all. This is political struggle. It doesn't matter. A man is what he is. That's all. And to come to this field of activities, one has to become free from all designation. "I am the chief minister" or this or that, that is designation. So I have to give up.

Mr. Rajda: It's a temporary thing.

Prabhupāda: Temporary thing. We should not be bothering about these temporary things. And it is meant for the rulers.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What you can do when a man dies? Can you save? So similarly, everyone is being handled by the laws of nature. Nobody can do anything, such puffed up, "We can do this plan." All these political leaders, they are simply wasting time. They cannot do anything. Indira promised, daridra hata(?). But now he is, she is daridra. Poverty-stricken. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). These rascals, they challenging the material laws? Such a rascal? You are scientists, they are challenging. Are they not challenging?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we challenge.

Prabhupāda: What kind of rascals they are, just imagine. Just like "I shall move the mountain with my head." Such rascal. And they are going on as scientist. You have to challenge them like that, that "You are all rascals, so challenging the laws of nature." But from the very beginning I called them rascals.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That will give strength. Milk produce strength. And it is suitable for everyone: children, diseased, invalid, old men. It is such a nice food. Everyone in any condition can get some benefit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we're getting fairly good milk now.

Prabhupāda: So good milk, you give little, not at a time much. Half a cup. So I said these political rascals... Just see. Trouble. They don't want democracy. "And we'll by force remain." Where is the democracy? Indira Gandhi was to give like that. Where is democracy? Vote rejected him that his (her) election was invalid. Still, he (she) would call, "Emergency." People of Kali-yuga, unfortunate, they are controlled by these fourth-class, tenth-class men. All unhappy. Nobody is in peace. That is also punishment because they are godless. Nobody will come to hear us, follow us, and they'll be punished by these politicians. They'll corrupt.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I can at least present. So, so many people are suffering for want of good leader throughout the whole world. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are in ignorance, and some rascals are leading them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it would make...

Prabhupāda: And spoiling the chance of human life. Nature's law will go on. If somebody becomes next life a dog... There is possibility. These political leaders are like that. They are not trained up. Just like these dogs at night, they are very busy. Nobody has appointed them. But he is thinking, "I am in charge of this, watching." As soon as one dog will bark, all they, "Oh, gow! There is some important duty. Come on. Come on." And "Gow! Gow! Gow!" (laughs) And who has appointed him? They, all the politicians, are like that. Nobody likes... "Oh, oh, give me vote. Give me vote. I shall give you this arrangement." And barking amongst themselves, "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore I said that the United Nations is an assembly of barking dogs. Actually that is. They cannot do anything.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, sewer system. (break) ...each toilet for fifty men. They are in line in the same building. One after another you get chance. You have got dysentery, then it is... Then you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have to take a bucket.

Prabhupāda: So nasty. You come here. (break) Vivekananda, so on, so on, so on, so on... If I had been in political power, I would have killed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hanged.

Prabhupāda: No, hanged. They are not guru. They are not missionaries. They do not know. They have no knowledge. And missionaries? You see? The so-called politicians, philosopher, religionists, rascals, distorting the meaning of Bhagavad-gītā. And yato mata tato patha. And "I like. Whatever I like, I can speak, and that is supported." What is this? Chaotic condition. There is no standard. We are giving the standard, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. And Gandhi said, "Oh, how can I stop cow-killing? It is their religion." Just see. Such a rascal. "My religion is to kill others, and it should be supported by the government." Such a foolish man, they are on the government power. Parīkṣit Mahārāja, did he consider that? "So you are killing cow? You must be killed." That's all. Life for life. "It is my religion, sir." "Then get out here! Get out of my kingdom! Perform your religion outside." This is king. This is government. He said like that, Kali. You know?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Yes, all right, I don't interfere with your business, but not... You leave my kingdom. Get out."

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are many, many experts from the lower-grade creatures. Ant hill. You are spending so much money for skyscraper building. The ant, they construct big hill as their residential quarters. Where they get their food? Where they get their...? But they are living. This is nature's study. Now you can... So what is this? Āhāra-nidrā. For eating. So for these four principles—eating, sleeping, sex, and defense—everyone knows. But the human society, they have made it a problem. These small ants, they also require those things, but they have no problem. For defense they don't require atomic weapon. They know in their own way how to defend. Cats, dogs, animals—everyone knows. Struggling. Our human society, advanced, means they are perplexed with these problems. The human life was meant for self-realization. That problem left, they have created some problems which the animals can solve in their own way. This is the present society. This political struggle and..., what is their aim, objective? To solve these problems. Nothing more. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4), indriya-prītaye, these four principles, sense gratification. The ant is also struggling. They wanted to enjoy the little sugar in the here. We have driven him. That's a problem. They have to find out somewhere else.

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Expecting. Hope against hope. This is struggle. That they do not see. They do... We have got this valuable life. What we are doing? We are doing the same thing as the small ants do. So what is the difference between that life and this life? Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes that "This is not your business. Your business is to surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That will be solved automatically. But they don't. They take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and apply it for solving these problems. Gandhi and Bhagavad-gītā—what is that? Political struggle. Such a rascal. And he's leader? He does not know what is the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā. Has Kṛṣṇa come down to speak how to defend, how to eat, how to sleep? Is there any statement there? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Solve this problem. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. And who, nonsense, understands this? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This teaching... This is a teaching of Bhagavad-gītā. And they are taking Bhagavad-gītā for solving these problems. That's all. Ants' struggle.

Conversation with M.P., Shri Sita Ram Singh -- May 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You... You belong to Delhi?

Sita Ram Singh: No, I belong to Bihar. I come from the... (explains where he is coming from, about his family, political party, etc., difficult to understand) But what I want, I want darśana. And if you have got any sympathy for me, kindly...

Prabhupāda: I have got sympathy for everyone.

Sita Ram Singh: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately nobody cares to hear.

Sita Ram Singh: That's right.

Prabhupāda: They have their own program. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind men leading blind men. You realize that your Constitution is defective?

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Morning, evening.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Morning and the evening. And I'd like to have six chief guests. All, they will be scientists from Delhi and surrounding areas, some well-known scientists. And also I'm thinking of inviting a few political...

Prabhupāda: Leaders.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Leaders. Governor of the state and Educational Minister. Dr. Sharma told me that he can arrange those things easily.

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Dr. Sharma is very helpful, and he's very interested in this idea.

Prabhupāda: You are doing nicely. Kṛṣṇa will help.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So what kind of manager? But I am sure you can get students from outside, if not Indian students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Indians will come when they see there's sufficient going on. Just like now they are doing...

Prabhupāda: No, they have lost interest. (indistinct) good character, that's all. They have lost all interest. They want this Hiraṇyakaśipu. They'll not want Prahlāda. He wanted son like him. That means fight between the father and the son. Son wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and he wants to be political rākṣasa, and he becomes... Anyhow, we have got place. We have got. Try for. If you don't... Manage. And you are required to. Manage.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (background conversation with Tamāla Kṛṣṇa)

Prabhupāda: That land we have got. Now you can make permanent.

Conversation: 'How to Secure Brahmacaris' -- June 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Don't waste time by seeing these rascals," I told him. Still thinking of so many poli... I said, "No, don't see. There is no use." If a man is not of character, what... And especially if he's not a devotee... Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. Immediately he is rejected. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). As soon as one is not devotee, we tell him, narādhama. Bas. That's all, finished. Why should I waste my time with...? But for some business we have to do, associate. That is another thing. So the student, the ideal... Then think of managerial arrangements. "Don't keep your head on the northern side." And he searched out, "There is a whole head. Oh!" On the northern or western side. So anything, if you have to inquire, you can put. (break)...Kali-yuga. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). They like this disturbed condition. "Politics, diplomacy, crookercy, I like." This is the position. One is a great cheater, crooked, diplomat—"Oh, he's very nice." You have seen it. This Sanjay Gandhi ruined the whole Congress organization, and he was being worshiped. Just see practically. It is due to him that the old, oldest political party, Congress, is ruined. And he was being worshiped. This is society's position. And Morarji Desai, he's now prime minister, he was put into jail. This is going on. This is the example to learn. For nineteen months he was put into jail. How much it is troublesome. If I am asked that "For so many months you cannot go out of this room," I'll become mad.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What we expect from Vajpayee? First thing, what he has proposed, give us this permanent residency...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Permanent residency

Prabhupāda: Let us see how he...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the main thing we want.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he has good mind, he'll give you, either Mr. Gupta goes or not. But if he has got any political view, either Gupta goes or not goes, he'll not.... First plan, interest, is for that.

Letter from Yugoslavia--'Books!' -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Like an ass. Have you not seen the ass? Can anyone work like that? The animal is so small, and the load is ten times than his body's weight. You have not seen? If you weigh the animal's body and the load, the load is ten times more than his body. This is the punishment. And again, the man who is loading him now, he'll have to become an ass and take the load. This is called karma-bandhana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He writes, "Many days... After working for more than one day at several universities, my presence became too obvious, and this becomes politically and legally dangerous, although in some little cities I became practically the talk of the town because people had not seen one with a dark body as mine, speaking only English and a little French." He's very dark. (break) He says, "Most important at this school was that after four days of trying to meet the Indologist, we were successful. I met the man and his assistant. They kept stressing that we were..." (break)

Prabhupāda: If required, you can show this line to Mr. Koku(?). In foreign countries they are no more interested in philosophical speculation. Actually they are not, neither in America nor India.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: Yajñād bhavati sam...

Prabhupāda: Ah, yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). All prescription of material life, spiritual life, social life, political life, religious life, artistic life—Bhagavad-gītā is full of knowledge. At least in India there must be an institution that is strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. This is my institution. We don't want anything more, other help. We simply request them that "Give some of our men permanent residentship. We shall guide it(?)." That they'll institute...(?) What help... What is the harm? Have we got...

Mr. Myer: It is abominable. If they help ISKCON, then there are all the churches in India. They'll want to plead...

Prabhupāda: Then it is not helping ISKCON.

Mr. Myer: No, you see, they're...

Prabhupāda: It is not helping ISKCON.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He converted that hunter, Mṛgāri. He was killing, but then he would not trample even on one ant.

Prabhupāda: So that is being done now. So he has to judge from this intelligence. We do not maintain any political view, what American government or Indian government... We want the whole people of the world, let them become human being. That is our movement. What is this? Simply killing business is going on. All governments should cooperate, pushing on this movement for humanity's sake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually in Communist countries now, Eastern Europe, in the universities, they are cooperating. But why these Bengali Marxists, they are not? The Communists are cooperating.

Prabhupāda: They know that we are the only enemy against their movement. Let me...

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: They want that the case be dropped and that they be given jobs, like before. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatākā: They're sending messenger requesting that there should be some type of agreement whereby the charges against them are dropped, the case is dropped, and that they're given the old jobs back.

Prabhupāda: The charges are made by the government. We cannot drop. Do you follow?

Jayapatākā: Yes. The charges can't be dropped by us, but if the two parties make a type of compromise agreement and file a petition to the court...

Prabhupāda: But now the fight is not between them and us. The fight is between government and them.

Jayapatākā: Many barristers in Calcutta say that if due to political pressure, this or that, some people come and ask us to try to file a petition for dropping charges, that there's no need to do that, because the case is well in our favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Dr. Ghosh has his scheme, but actually the scheme is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We want to introduce that scheme to our Gurukula. We haven't got to manufacture scheme. Is that correct?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Let them learn to rise early in the morning and cleanse. This is the first scheme. This will keep their health nice. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Unless in the human society the varṇāśrama system is introduced, no scheme or social order, health order or any order, political order, will be successful.

Bhagavān: Everything is there very clearly in your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: A man-made scheme-useless. Sāttvika-yuga.(?) What is that verse? Sattvāvalambi-para-sattva-viśuddha-sattvam... From Brahma-saṁhitā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Sattvāvalambi-para-sattva-viśuddha-sattvam.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very carefully deal with them. They want to enter into our management.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm just thinking about looking... I want to read our memorandum, because as far as I remember, the life members have the right to vote in our Society. That may be one way. They may read the memorandum and see that "We can vote." Then, by doing some politics, they create some difficulty by voting and put one of these materialistic men in charge. Good reason to remain with us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They won't do anything while you are present. It's better that you should remain with us. Then they won't be able to do anything.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will protect you. Try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very politically minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So China has sacrificed everything. What is their aim?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In China? Their aim... They say that their aim is to establish a classless society where everyone gets everything that they require. Economic aim.

Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their entire outlook is an economic one. They have no... They don't feel that there's any importance to culture or any of the finer sentiments except that they may further the economic consideration. Politically also, their political understanding is also ultimately directed for economics. Any of their political dealings with other countries are all ultimately to establish this economic Communism.

Prabhupāda: How human society is falling down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the definition given in the Vedas, they don't classify as human beings.

Prabhupāda: Don't try for China.