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Police (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"police" |"police's" |"policeman" |"policeman's" |"policemen"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1976, Madras:

Devotee: One guy testified that he was picked up and taken away for four days.

Acyutānanda: Well, that was...

Prabhupāda: What they are? They are police? No. Mounted police?

Acyutānanda: Yes, mounted police.

Prabhupāda: A mounted police here?

Acyutānanda: Saber. Sword.

Devotee: Oh, it's a stick.

Acyutānanda: Oh, yes, lāṭhī, made like a stick. Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) Why they are guarding here?

Acyutānanda: I think for the horses.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're exercising the horse.

Acyutānanda: (break) ...house in Bengali. Is this where Swami Vivekananda...

Prabhupāda: Yes. After coming back from foreign countries, he made his position here in Madras.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I made a study. I asked the men in our party, when they were all gathered, to raise their hand if they had received a book before joining our party, and every single one of them had gotten a book before joining the movement—without exception. They were attracted through reading a book or a magazine.

Prabhupāda: I talked with that police officer. He has published. In Chicago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Crime: What to do?"

Harikeśa: "Why and what to do?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Why and what to do?"

Prabhupāda: Every paper, there are so many papers. Education so much advanced, and everyone is a criminal. Hmm. Have saṅkīrtana, then lecture.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You chant?

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa only. (break) That is foolishness. Why our men does not become ready before four o'clock and have maṅgala ārati and kīrtana? If our habits are not changed, then what is the use of spending so much money?

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) All fools, rascals, mūḍhas. (break) The Tirupati is a Vaiṣṇava temple, so they should encourage.... Vaisnavism means real religion. All other, bogus, cheating religions. That is.... Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They do not know that. What is this land?

Indian man (1): The police superintendent's house.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Police superintendent. They are using the Deity's money, Prabhupāda, to maintain the universities. And in the universities they are teaching birth control and so many other things.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you take them into court?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Take them to court.

Yaśodānandana: It's like fighting against the government.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are the court.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are the court.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Harikeśa: It takes ten years for the court to decide.

Acyutānanda: Well, immediately the police ordered that it had to be released. Or they put.... Just like the Mohammedan water, they put some bread in a well in a place like this, and then they can say, "You are all Christian now because you have drunk the bread that we have put there."

Prabhupāda: They are doing like that here?

Acyutānanda: Yes. In Europe, when Christianity first came to Constantine, the priests would stay in the top of a river, and they marched an army through the river, and the priest put the holy water, and when the army came on the other side they said, "Now you've all been baptized. You're all Christians." Mass conversion. (break) ...Hindu groups are mixing Hinduism and Indian nationality, it's fascism. That was also the government's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Acyutānanda: Fascism.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Acyutānanda: The Hindu groups. That was the point that enraged the government. The same paṇḍitas with the prāyaścitta, they don't like the Mohammedans, they don't like the Christians. They say, "You have created Pakistan, so all the Mohammedans should go there. This is Hindustan."

Prabhupāda: Murvi(?) meat here?

Indian man (1): Not everyone did.

Prabhupāda: Mostly.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I have seen one road, street, "Gandhi Street," Mexico, and there is no other. Mexico, when there was trouble with the Americans, they adopted Gandhi's noncooperation movement. Therefore they regarded Gandhi. There is Gandhi's statue and Gandhi's name, one. Who had been Mexico, any of you? That I have seen. And I never seen Vivekananda Road, never. Or India, oh, so many, this, that. No Caitanya Mahāprabhu Road. Vivekananda Road. Propaganda. The other day I saw some stamp, postage, "Vivekananda." You have seen it? But never they will publish Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu. "Kṛṣṇa is fictitious." What is called? Mythology. "Kṛṣṇa is mythology." (Bengali) The government saw, especially the police department, and they became so popular. Within two, three years, thousands and thousands of men, not only Indian. Kichu āchen. All Europeans, American, Englishmen, they are following Rathayātrā. Jaya jagannātha, jaya hare kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In San Francisco they made it a holiday.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) "Rival of Nelson Column..." (Bengali) (break) (Bengali) "It is hell." Actually that is. Always wet. No road you'll find it is dry. Always damp. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, hellish.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you like. It's a little early still. You could walk out to the front gate today and see how they are painting.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. So let us go. (break) ...says, uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpta-varān nibodhata.(?)Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo. Still he will sleep in this human form of life and remain animal, cat and dog. A simple word, jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo. This is Vedic instruction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgrata: "Get up. Be awakened. You have got this body. Try to understand God." That they will not do. They'll come to fight: "Oh, you are playing mṛdaṅga at four o'clock and disturbing my sleeping?" This is going on. "Let me go to the police. You are trying to awaken me from my sleeping? You are trying to make me intelligent? Let me remain fool. Why you are disturbing me?" Māyā's influence. Kota nidrā jāo māyā-piśācīra kole. Simply wasting of time. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. The Gosvāmīs, they conquered over sleeping first, nidrā, then eating. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau. What is this?

Bhavānanda: It says, (break) "...when not in use."

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's for the gate.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...again mūḍha.

Sudāmā: (break) ...speaking about how they are complaining that we are waking them up. A very interesting story... In Hawaii for one year every day this one man living next door to us every morning would call the police force at guru-pūjā. So many cars would come, three, four police cars. So finally, after one or two weeks' coming, they would come very happily, and they would take prasāda. So they came because he called, they had to follow his complaint, but they told me personally, "We are coming not to arrest you or complain. We like your activities. Please give us some prasādam."

Hṛdayānanda: Also in Caracas many, many police cars come to the temple for prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: My is imitation, but his was real. (laughs) All these Navadvīpa people were afraid of him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Afraid.

Prabhupāda: Strong-hearted. They made a, what is called, conspiracy to kill him.

Hṛdayānanda: Who did this?

Prabhupāda: Oh, the Navadvīpa gosvāmīs. They raised 25,000 rupees and wanted to bribe this police officer that "You take this money. We shall finish him. Don't take any action."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the policeman said?

Prabhupāda: Refused. "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why?

Prabhupāda: "He's a saintly person. We cannot agree to that." Everyone knows police takes bribe. They admit, "Yes, we take bribe, but not in such cases." This was told by Guru Mahārāja, Bhaktisi..., to me. He was talking many things confidential.

Morning Walk -- February 28, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. he's a... He's madman. Actually everyone is mad. That is the medical report. Do they give some present? No.

Kīrtirāja: Not some present, but even, even the policemen, they are stopping the traffic, especially when they see the devotees coming. In Calcutta we saw. We were driving from Germany with Gargamuni Mahārāja in those six vans, and the policemen were especially stopping the traffic so that we could come through. And in New York also, the policemen on the street, they are dancing.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Kīrtirāja: When the saṅkīrtana party is coming, sometimes they are raising their arms and they are dancing also, because they see that we are, that this movement is not like the other movements. The others, they are just staying hippies, and now they are... They have some guru.

Prabhupāda: These rascal gurus...

Kīrtirāja: Like you said yesterday, they are all rascals.

Prabhupāda: It has been discussed by that professor.

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes, very, very careful.

Jayapatāka: Watching the dangers.

Prabhupāda: We have got good reputation all over the world. The German rascals, they wanted to minimize our value, but he failed, that police officer.

Haṁsadūta: If the government sanctions for acquiring this land, then we won't have any trouble in Hyderabad getting that land either.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Have to give it.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...take it rightly. Then we'll lay down the foundation. Something, anything.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The government's duty, then, is to protect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is government. That is kṣatriya. Ksat trāyate iti kṣatriya. Kṣat means injury, and one who gives protection from injury, he is kṣatriya. Just like Parīkṣit Mahārāja. As soon as he saw a cow is attempted..., immediately he said, "Who are you, rascal? You are trying to kill this cow in my kingdom?" That is kṣatriya. And nowadays, even if I kill you, the police will see from there; he'll not come. This is government. And when the finished killing, then he will say, "Who is this man?" He'll note down, "A man is killed." And then inquiry, and then finished. Who is the man killed and what is happened? Nothing of the sort. Inquiry and finish. Big commission report.

Madhudviṣa: They have made a survey in America. They have made a survey that nine out of every ten crimes never gets a victim.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: Never gets solved. Nine out of every ten crimes never gets solved in America.

Prabhupāda: No, it cannot be solved.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, it cannot be solved.

Pañca-draviḍa: It's more than that, probably.

Madhudviṣa: So the criminal is very much encouraged, because he has only one chance in ten of getting caught whether he robs a bank or steals or rapes or something like that.

Prabhupāda: But for this purpose they are maintaining huge police force, and you are earning money and tax, that's all.

Rāmeśvara: The police all accept bribes.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: They all accept bribes or they do some illegal business themselves with the criminals they capture.

Prabhupāda: Yes, regular... Every criminal has got organization to bribe the police. And the police does not take directly, and some in-between man, agent, he collects from the criminal and gives to the police. In India this is going on. I know that. A via-media man, he makes fortune. Yes. Whatever is collected, ten percent he takes, and balance is given to the police. There is a confectioner in Delhi. He is selling jalebi. You know jalebi?

Devotees: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: He has got ten lakhs of rupees because he collects the bribe from others and pay to the police. Everyone knows. There was one Mullik, now, on that Mahātmā Gandhi Road. His business was that. He was collecting. That quarter, our quarter, was full of pocket, pickpockets, guṇḍās. Pickpockets, gundas, in our childhood they were our neighborhood. (laughs) I remember when I was child I was coming, and the pickpocket was pickpocketing, and he was... He was doing like that: "Don't speak. Don't talk." I have seen all this. And whenever there was any riot, so we were accustomed to see everything. When there was Hindu-Muslim riot, one boyfriend told me, "Oh, don't go to your house. It is... A great riot is..." I thought, "Riot is going on daily." It was the same thing. (break) ...quarter. Induriya prakāra(?)

Bhāgavata: In New York one policeman admitted that when the police would capture the thieves with the stolen goods, then they would confiscate the goods and keep it privately in their homes and sell the stolen goods and get the money for themselves. They would not return it to the owner, but they would utilize it for making money. So they are also thieves.

Prabhupāda: So if this is the practice in a country which is so opulent, just imagine what is there in India.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: I had experience, because when I was younger I was stealing, and I was taking to the hock shop one typewriter, and while I was taking to the hock shop this typewriter, the police came and showed me his badge and took this typewriter and one French horn from... He took the money, and he said, "I am going to check to see if this is stolen." So one week later I was worried. I called him. I said, "What is happening?" He said, "That typewriter was reported one year ago stolen from the school." But he said, "Because I think you're a good boy, I'm not going to arrest, you because I don't think you did it. If I thought for a moment you did it, I would immediately come and take you." So I said, "That's all right. What about the French horn? When can I have my money back?" He said, "You just forget about this. You leave it to me."

Prabhupāda: To keep you honest. (laughter) To keep you honest, you just don't hope your money.

Guru-krpa: Their practice is that they watch our saṅkīrtana devotees collect all day, and they know when he has good pocketful of money. Then they arrest him...

Prabhupāda: In Germany they have done this.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Guru-krpa: There's one devotee who was in the Detroit temple who used to be on the police force, and he told us everything about how they are all cheaters.

Mahendra: In America also sometimes they'll arrest someone who is selling illegal drugs. Then they'll arrest him, then they'll seize the drugs, then they'll take the drugs home and they'll sell them to make money.

Yaśodānandana: Sometimes they'll use it themselves.

Mahendra: Sometimes they use it, right.

Madhudviṣa: In New York there was a big scandal. There was ten millions dollars worth of drugs confiscated from a boat, and they put it in the police lockup, and then it was gone.

Prabhupāda: In Navadvīpa... You have heard the name of Vamsidāsa Bābājī. So sometimes, when his things were stolen, the disciples will cry that "It is stolen." So he said, "Why you are bothering? One thief gives; another thief takes. That's all. Who gave the money, he is also thief, and who has taken away, he is also thief. So why you are bothering?" One thief gives; another thief takes.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Bhāgavata: He learned that the policeman was selling the stolen goods because one morning in New York they passed by the temple, and they said, "We have many cartons of paper towel. You want to buy?"

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhāgavata: They came by our temple. They said, "We have many cartons of paper towel."

Prabhupāda: Paper towel?

Bhāgavata: Paper towels, yes. And they asked if we wanted to buy. "Very cheap," they said, "cheaper than in the supermarket." So then we could understand where they had gotten...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...deal with such men. This material world is so corrupt. (break) ...we are not going to get that land, eh? That land? I don't think we are going.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Who is this gentleman? Police?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man? He's a military man. This is one of our airport distributors, distributing books. Here is the bus construction. You can see how they're building the buses. That's our head office in-charge, Keśava-bhāratī.

Prabhupāda: Where the head of office? It should...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's in Phoenix, but it may be shifted soon to New York. Airport distribution. This is the installation of all the Deities you were attending in Chicago. That was a big ceremony.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Chicago? Did I install? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you were present on the vyāsāsana...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The first part. Here, this is first part of the...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Look in the index.

Prabhupāda: Index. You can read it. So you are reading books also. Not selling but reading also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really they are soldiers because many of them have been very severely beaten by police authorities and others during the distribution.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The men who are here now in this room, some of them have been put in jails.... (aside:) Watch out for that thing. Put in jails and beaten just for distributing these books.

Prabhupāda: So there is no legal action?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's in the courts.

Tripurāri: Some places the police have a conspiracy against our devotees.

Prabhupāda: What is our fault?

Tripurāri: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.

Prabhupāda: That they don't want.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: Two lakhs. Last night was big. Last night...

Prabhupāda: No, the police officer said that "From all different parts of Bengal, they are coming to see your temple."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This never before has happened?

Prabhupāda: No.

Guru-kṛpā: We realized last night our temple is too small.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Guru-kṛpā: And the road, you could not even walk down it. It took me fifteen minutes to get to the gate.

Prabhupāda: I therefore planned four buildings like that. You know. And that was my plan, four buildings like that besides temple and my house. That was the original plan.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: The women argue that they are stronger than the men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You are stronger than the man, that when there is fight, the man goes; you do not go. You are so strong. You are simply ravished in the absence of your husband. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: Now.... The women are joining the Army in America now.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen a police in London. So I told that "If I catch your hand and give you a slap, where is your police?" (laughter) "I am old man. If I catch your hand and give you a slap, what police action will be there?"

Pañca-draviḍa: Prabhupāda, who is that prostitute the gopīs refer to...?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañca-draviḍa: In the Kṛṣṇa book the gopīs say that "The great prostitute," I forget the name, "Pimba," or something, "says that..."

Prabhupāda: Kubjā, Kubjā, Kubjā.

Satsvarūpa: Disappointment.

Prabhupāda: Kubjā.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (3): No. Because the number of starving men here is much larger.

Prabhupāda: You are starving on account of your economic condition being bad or.... I cannot say anything. But they are also starving. You are poor by force, and they sometimes accept poverty voluntarily, just like the hippies. They have enough money. They are coming from very rich father and grandfather, but they lie down on the street, and the police comes and kick them, "Hey, get up! Get up!" Why? Why they have accepted this? So this kind of varieties we find everywhere-rich man, middle class man, and poverty-stricken man. Don't think that it is in India. I am traveling all over the world.

Reporter (1): Swamiji, what do you suggest to your disciples to arouse what you call Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the purificatory process. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.... God is so kind. In this age.... It is meant for every age. Especially this age when we are so much fallen and so much suffering, and neither we are able to act very piously, therefore this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, if you chant, you gradually become purified. Then you come to your own consciousness.

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And then second son, third.... Everyone said like that, and she died without Gaṅgā. Agar mā gaṅgā.(?) So this.... And everyone has to work. And he thinks that "Why I shall work? Let him work. No work today."

Guru dāsa: You tell the story about a man beating with a stick, and then the police constable came and said, "You have beaten him." "No, no, no. It was the stick that beat him, not me." (laughter) No responsibility.

Dr. Patel: No, but, you see, the sense of possession in human society is more important, because they have no sense of possession.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Even with all our philosophic and all our learning we have the sense of possession of this body which can't leave the moha in it. With all that, sir, then how can they do it?

Prabhupāda: No, higher than that, the sense that everything is possessed by God, that is perfection.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, they'll be.... Nature's law is so strong that they are also trying to knock their head in the wall. They will themselves break their head. The laws of nature is the same. If you try to break the walls from this side and if they try to break the walls from that side, both of them will lose their head. So if they are so foolish.... They are foolish. Everywhere such foolish men are there. They are trying to overcome the laws of nature. That is the greatest foolishness. That is the greatest foolishness. Just like government has got police force, military force, and if somebody tries to become, violate the laws of government by defying police force and military force—that is futile. Is it possible, that "I shall defy the government laws"? No, there is police force. There is military. "I don't care for that." It is foolishness. It is simply foolishness. Similarly, these laws of nature means the force of the Supreme. So if you want to defy, you may waste your time. It is not possible. And practically, Kṛṣṇa says, "Here I have enforced this miserable condition of material life." Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu (BG 13.9). First of all surpass this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Then talk of surpassing the laws of nature. Can the Communists overcome, stopping old age? No Communist will be old man? Then what way you have surpassed the laws of nature? No Communist will die? Then where is your surpassing laws of nature? Ultimately you are under the grip of laws of nature. So what is the meaning of this foolish talking, that "I am going to surpass the laws of nature"? Show us first of all.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: But you are actually afraid. Why? You say.... You are a great philosopher: "Why should we be afraid?" But if I kill you, immediately you cry. Why? Don't cry. Let peacefully die. I kill you? Why do you protest, "This man is killing me, killing me! Save me! Save me! Save me! Police! Police! Police!" Why? Die peacefully. I am helping you to die peaceful. Why you make me criminal? (break) ...says, "Thou shall not kill." If killing is peaceful, dying is peaceful, why He has prohibited?

Devotee (1): Even though you may kill me, we still don't mind that.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not so fool I am going to kill you. That is an..., the business. But you die peacefully. Let him throw in the sea. Die peacefully.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In other words, they are theorizing that "Death is a very peaceful state of sleeping. Why are we protesting so much"?

Prabhupāda: But that is not sleeping. After sleeping you have to awake, and you have to bark like dog, "Give me food. Gow! Gow! Gow!" You are not going to sleep after death. You are awakening like a dog, and bark and disturb others. That is your mistake, that you are sleeping forever. No sleeping. You have to wake up again.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Johannesburg.

Prabhupāda: Johannesburg. From the downtown, the Indian quarters about ten miles or fifteen miles away. Indian.... African, black quarters, they are not allowed even to enter the city. They require a pass. If any black man enters the city without that passport, he will immediately be taken to police. The bus for the black man is different from the white man. I think Indians also they have got separate bus. But the bus in which the white men travel, the Indians and the black men are not allowed. Gandhi tried to adjust this injustice, but he failed. Then with determination he went to India, that "I must drive away the Englishmen." These South African white men, mostly they are Englishmen and Dutchmen. Originally, they were Englishmen and Dutchmen.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And there is another problem, Irish problem. The Irish men, they are dropping bombs in London, in daytime. Creating always disturbance.

Gopavṛndapāla: I was in London just recently, and in the airport, where we distribute books, you cannot put your bag of books down because the police will come, hold you, and say, "You have a bomb in your bag." You must always keep it on your shoulder. And there are signs about every fifty feet, saying "Do not leave luggage unattended" because they are thinking anything which is unattended is a possible bomb.

Prabhupāda: London airport is very congested.

Gopavṛndapāla: Yes, very.

Prabhupāda: Very, very congested. Always thousands and thousands of men. If there is any such bomb explosion.... Life is becoming more and more insecure. The advancement of civilization is no relief for these other problems.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Always living in fear.

Prabhupāda: Sadā samudvijña-dhiyam asad-grahāt. As soon as you accept material things as everything, immediately bhaya. Āhāra nidrā maithuna bhaya. (japa) (break) ...country, they'll not allow any individual person to live so comfortably. No, illegal. If you have got money, then give it to the government. The ministers will enjoy it. This is democracy. Democracy means "Somehow or other, I capture the government, and whatever money you have got, I snatch it from you, and then I enjoy." This is democracy. Dasyu-dharma. In Bhāgavata it is said dasyu-dharma, the business of the rogues. How is that? If I can earn some money and keep it for myself, I have no right? This is communistic idea: "Make everyone poor." Here is police, two cars. Police we saw.

Hari-śauri: They can't raise the standard up, so they bring it all down.

Rāmeśvara: That's their idea of equality.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rāmeśvara: That's their idea of equality. All men are equal, so no one should have more money.

Hari-śauri: Make everyone a śūdra.

Rāmeśvara: That's what you wrote in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that communism is a movement of śūdras.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they're śūdras.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The government cannot manage?

Ambarīṣa: No. The mayor is black. The police they cannot do anything.

Devotee (4): The police force is also becoming black. He's putting black men in charge of every department of the city, and they're mismanaging everything.

Prabhupāda: There is possibility of another civil war?

Ambarīṣa: Yes. Possibly some sort of a race war or something. In Boston, they have a lot of trouble because of this bussing. They bus the black children into the white neighborhoods to go to school to achieve equal education, and the white communities do not like this. In Boston there has been a lot of violence between the black people and the white people. Very much hatred, very much hate each other.

Prabhupāda: So only remedy is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense books. That is our mission." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ (SB 1.5.10). That verse, that however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not contain any glorification of Kṛṣṇa, it is just like the spot where the crows take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures, they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan, paramahaṁsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage. Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the crow's society and swan's society. (police car sounds) What is this?

Mādhavānanda: Police car.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Oh? Police cars very often visit this quarter?

Mādhavānanda: No.

Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's nine o'clock.

Prabhupāda: It may be ten o'clock. (laughter) What is the difference when here and there? (Prabhupāda laughs) Just like a blind man, he's sleeping, now his son is getting, "Please rise, it is now morning." So he said, "For me, morning and evening is the same thing. I am blind." Kebā rātra kebā din. "For me, there is no difference between day and night, because I cannot see anything."

Rakṣaṇa: Because you see only Kṛṣṇa all the time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it doesn't matter whether you're in the room or in the garden.

Prabhupāda: So you want to see something other than, better than Kṛṣṇa? So ārati time is now? No. If you have to go, you can go.

Hari-śauri: No. The main ārati is finished at seven o'clock. (end)

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Scheverman: You mean in a rich country like this, why should anyone be on the street?

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. There will be a third-class or poor class man, which you even want to help them, they'll not accept your help. That is another thing. These three phases.... I have seen in London, the British Empire, and the hippies, they are lying on the park, and the police kicking, "Hey, ut, ut," (laughter) But I mean to say, the nature is law, nature's law, that a richer class, middle class and a poorer class. That will continue.

Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.

Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...

Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.

Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: And weighed so much.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and weight was so much. (pause) The time was not so bad. If you take some cash, thousand, two thousand rupees with you, you can safely walk on the street. Now if somebody knows that he has got thousand rupees cash with him, maybe he will be killed. The bank, they are so much afraid, they keep police in bank, police guard, always.

Hari-śauri: They have so much security systems and TV cameras. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...not working?

Hari-śauri: Is there any kind of a pain killer or anything?

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Nothing we can get from India or anything like that?

Prabhupāda: No, don't worry. It will be.... (break)

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Actually, they are making adjustments to the law so that they can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in India, in Vṛndāvana, they are killing now for a little money. They are so poverty-stricken. They have got a clique. Because in Vṛndāvana there are many retired men; they get some money from bank or some saving bank in post office, and they have got clique with this post office man and the bank clerk who has taken money. Bon Mahārāja was attacked. He brought some one lakh rupees, one and a half lakh rupees for some.... He was recognized by the.... As soon, at night.... He was living in the Institute. Attacked, in the presence of police. Police was guarding that others may not come to help.

Hari-śauri: The police were helping the thieves?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think the magistrate even was complicated. And when it was complained, the magistrate said, "Better not to take it seriously; it will be your.... I'll give you some guard."

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. It is stated that all government men will be rogues and thieves. Rājanyair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanyaiḥ means government men, and dasyu-dharma means practiced to roguery, thieves.

Hari-śauri: American police are well known for being corrupt.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. In India. Police means everyone takes, first of all (indistinct).

Viśvakarmā: They can be saved only by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and the mercy of Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa only you are saved. Otherwise, our Bombay construction was rejected by the police constable, that kīrtana is nuisance. Public servant, he can say, blaspheme a religious system, Bhagavad-gītā, in the same country, Bhagavad-gītā. And India is condemning now, government men: "Kīrtana is nuisance."

Hari-śauri: Temporarily, at least, it seems the demons are very powerful.

Prabhupāda: They will become powerful. And people will be less intelligent—means less God conscious. Just like when the king is weak, thieves and rogues, they flourish.

Conversation in Airport and Car -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So the neighbors they like it? Neighborhood men?

Kīrtanānanda: Most of them like us. There are a few that don't like us. But they are not violent. They are a little nasty.

Prabhupāda: Nasty they have been trained up to be. (Sanskrit) Once trained up nastily, it is very difficult to...

Kīrtanānanda: The state police in this local area has become very favorable to us. During that quarantine the state police had to stay here. So they even began to come to ārati. They took our books; they were reading. There's been a lot of change in some of the government. Some of the government men are now much favorable, more understanding.

Prabhupāda: Whatever was there, it was due to misunderstanding.

Kīrtanānanda: The sheriff is very favorable, the judge. That judge that came to see you last time you were here, he still keeps a picture of you in his desk.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Just see how forcefully they are being kept into ignorance, and we want to give knowledge, they don't, won't allow. This is government. So anyway, it is good news that our books are being read in that way. That means people are very eager, but they are being suppressed by the so-called government. What is the wrong there, that they cannot read these books publicly, because there is God? What is the wrong? When I was in Moscow airport, as soon as they found Bhagavad-gītā, they called police, the customs checking. The foolish man was kind enough, he said, "Not serious offense. Don't send him in the concentration camp." They can do. In Russia, even if you are foreigner, they can immediately send you to the concen..., without any knowledge, they don't care for your embassy or your... Such a rascal state, there is no civilized method. They send their own men, such an important man like that Kruschev. He was sent into oblivion; nobody knows where he is. Such a rascal government. Very difficult to live in. People are... Simply under terrorism the government is going on. In that sense your American government is so nice. Everyone has got the liberty. What is that nonsense government-terrorism.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulādri: They are doing better than before, but still they are somewhat envious.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.

Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.

Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchase Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchased Bhagavad-gītā. (sound of motorcycle comes very close, idles) (end)

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So what news?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we've distributed about 70,000 magazines so far this month. So I think we'll reach 100,000 in this month. Even though we are getting much harassment from the police, still we are going on.

Prabhupāda: Why harassment? What is the fault?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: (break) They are mostly godless, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They see us as a nuisance to the public. We are threatening their sense gratification.

Kīrtanānanda: What fault did Prahlāda have?

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification, we are refusing them?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We are threatening their sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So it is bad?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It is bad for their way of life. Just like Prahlāda was preaching to his school friends. And I think almost 20,000 big books so far.

Prabhupāda: "So far" means?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Up to this month, for the first three weeks.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Robbing. In the name of law, robbing.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Right, the court has taken it.

Devotee (1): Did this happen in court or the police...?

Dhrtadyumna: In court.

Prabhupāda: And then they let go?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: They were let go.

Hari-śauri: They just want some revenue.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are robbing, government, dasyu dharmabhiḥ. It is stated, government will be like rogues. As the rogues and thieves, they take away from you by force, the government will do that. In the court, by income tax, so many people are being harassed.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: There is a large organization called Mafia in this country.

Prabhupāda: Mafia?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Mafia, organized criminals, organized like businessmen. They are controlling the politicians by money. But although they are exposing, still it goes on. It is worse than ever.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Explain further.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): And violence.

Hari-śauri: And violence. So many things they'd do. They used to organize all the heroin that comes into the country, like this, for revenue, to get revenue, money. So many things. And places like Las Vegas, which is a big gambling city, that is also run by the Mafia. They control all the casinos and they control the police, they pay everyone off, like that, and if they don't agree, they kill them. So like this, their influence is spread everywhere, any illegal things that are going on.

Prabhupāda: Terrorism.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Our last President, two Presidents ago, Kennedy, he was involved with one of their prostitutes. She was getting information, and he was not investigating them because he was involved with one of their prostitutes.

Prabhupāda: They keep prostitutes also?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Oh, yes, they use them. Actually, they are controlling many of these judges, and then we are coming in, and we are preaching the other thing, no prostitution, no drinking, and then we are getting fines.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If the natural tendency of the living entity is to want to exist, to live, then why is it they perform so many horrible acts that will destroy themselves?

Prabhupāda: They are thinking that they will exist in that way.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: This description is perfect, actually, because most of his fortunes they calculate he amassed by many illegal methods, like paying off police and fixing so many things up. With his money, he was always able to buy government officials and like this and get so many contracts to further the development of his aircraft companies and this and that.

Prabhupāda: He has manufactured airplanes?

Hari-śauri: Yes, he had something to do with airplanes. And also he had a lot of land in Las Vegas, this gambling city. So many... He was involved in many mysterious maneuvers. It's open in the newspapers, they said that he got most of his money from illegal methods.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...

Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He could not avoid death.

Prabhupāda: If there was no germs, how he died? So at last he said?

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: There are so many varieties of life, so we have to accept one of them by Kṛṣṇa's desire, Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. He's observing everything. So He orders that "Give him a body like this." Who can check it? Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This body is a machine. The machine is given by material nature. Today you may be a very big man, and by your activities, asuric activities, you are so condemned that you have to accept a lower-grade life, a fox, sly fox. "You are very sly to spend others' money in moon excursion. Now you become a fox." So who can check it? Here it is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). So you cannot check it. You are not so great scientist. Then how do you say, "There is no God"? You cannot check God's law, so how you can say that there is no God? You can say at your home, "I don't care for government." And when government arrests you and puts you in difficulty, how can you check it? Is it possible? Then why do you submit that? When the police comes and arrests you, you can say, "No, no, I don't care for any officer." You cannot say. Is this not punishment? This tree is standing here for hundreds of years, and it will go on standing for thousands of years. Is it not punishment? So what the atheist will answer, this? Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll put him into this condition." What the atheist will answer?

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) ...trees very long?

Vṛṣākapi: Just pine trees and oak trees. No fruit trees. (break) He was run over by a car, he was intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: Then? What happened, he was not identified?

Vṛṣākapi: They said that he lived in these woods back here, way back in the woods.

Prabhupāda: Oh, drunkard.

Vṛṣākapi: Yes. They had many cars here all day for two days. All the police, ambulance, TV.

Prabhupāda: To take photograph?

Vṛṣākapi: To take photograph of the place. It became a monument. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just to see a dead body.

Vṛṣākapi: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Crows. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Ādi-keśava: That's when we ah... Toṣaṇa, isn't that the picture that you showed them to show what our carts look like? He told the police, to get our permit, that our carts were like those little small rathas, so that we could get the permit. He said that we were having a parade with hand-pulled floats. When they thought of hand-pulled floats, they thought of little wagons.

Hari-śauri: They're going to get a shock.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's breaking the news to them slowly.

Hari-śauri: We did that in Melbourne. But then gradually we let them see. Then they took us out for a trial run and everything. (break)

Prabhupāda: Note down in the account book. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...presents us as a bona fide Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Vaiṣṇava cult. Says that the ISKCON center, the Māyāpur..., "ISKCON plans to build in Māyāpur a world center for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will comprise an enormous..."

Prabhupāda: This news has been very much advertised.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When will we begin?

Prabhupāda: As soon as we get the land.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why deported?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, because they are Hare Kṛṣṇas. There's one man, he says, in Osaka that's a big demon, one policeman who simply makes his business to try and find out the devotees. So that one man arrested three of them in one day. Anyway he's just taking another thirty-five thousand out and he's immediately transferring today ten thousand to Gargamuni and he's arranging a bank account jointly with Rāmeśvara in Los Angeles for his other money. Rāmeśvara will put the money in fixed deposit and monthly transfer ten thousand dollars for construction. Gurukṛpā was happy to know that the money could be used for that. He says he's studying, chanting and working very hard.

Prabhupāda: They are trying to drive us away. How to counteract it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we have to do some positive, very subtle positive preaching. I suggested that—if you recall—I suggested that a cultural center should be opened there on the basis of showing dolls, showing movies, restaurant,

Prabhupāda: Books.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So why the seeds does not go by air to the other planets?

Rāmeśvara: When they first developed the radio, they set up a system to send out radio messages into outer space. And their idea was that if there was any intelligence on other planets they would answer by sending...

Prabhupāda: So whether your radio message reach there?

Hari-śauri: We should wait, Śrīla Prabhupāda, a minute, because police over there, they may object if we walk. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...only in America (laughter). All intelligence monopolized by America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sounds like the old British policy.

Prabhupāda: Foolish policy. Just like the deaf man, he thinks everyone is deaf. You know that? This is psychology. Deaf man will think that everyone is deaf. Broadcast radio message in the Pacific Ocean, the aquatics they do not reply, that means there is no life? Rascal theory.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because this was our first year, we were not expecting such a big turnout, so we did not have sufficient stands to meet everybody's needs.

Prabhupāda: And the police officer has approved.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the policemen sat down at the end of the park later on.

Prabhupāda: You gave them prasādam?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm not sure. I didn't deal with them. They were dealt with by Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa. We'll bring them some present tomorrow. But they made the statement that "If every parade was so beautiful and so nicely orderly, we would be very happy."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Bali-mardana: Especially New York, the people are ready for it. Like today, they have taken part very nicely. Even the policemen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're so favorable. Rāmeśvara was commenting. He said he never saw... The climate of the people of New York is unique in America. They are very favorable.

Prabhupāda: So where is that man? Where he has gone? 7-UP can be had anywhere.

Hari-śauri: Well, it's Sunday evening. It's a bit difficult. He has to drive around in a car till he finds somewhere.

Bali-mardana: 7-UP? You want 7-UP? I can get it.

Hari-śauri: I sent Śravaṇānanda out to get it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the Bloopie's they can get it. Rādhāvallabha got it.

Bali-mardana: Not a can, though, just in a cup.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do they get it into the cup? Buy the whole bottle.

Prabhupāda: Bottle or... Bottle or can.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But the Kṛṣṇa people were not entirely free of harassment. Along the parade route three men, including one who said he was an Evangelical Christian minister, jeered at the parade and called on parade watchers to become Christians. 'Idol worship. This is absolutely ridiculous. Read the Bible,' cried one man who would identify himself only as a normal Christian. There was a brief scuffle when an Indian immigrant tried to tear a large placard out of the hands of another heckler. The placard read 'Turn or Burn.' The police broke things up but made no arrests. 'They are insulting us,' said the Kṛṣṇa follower who declined to identify himself. 'I'm a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and Christ. These people who are doing this in the name of Christ are criminals.' " Very strong statement. "Except for the hecklers, however, the parade was generally very well received by passersby, who enjoyed the three multi-hued floats, the sun, and the chanting and dancing of the young Kṛṣṇa marchers. 'I think it's great,' said Tyrone Adams of Philadelphia, who was paying a visit to his home town of Inglewood, New Jersey. 'I'm not religious, but they're all happy and dancing, and that is what life is all about.' " Even a nonreligious person said that. "In Washington Square a crowd of about three thousand, many of whom were there as part of the normal Sunday afternoon activities, heard Swami Prabhupāda deliver a lecture. Later the crowd was served a free vegetarian feast. Along the side, Kṛṣṇa followers sold Indian sweets, Kṛṣṇa scriptures, and what one speaker described as 'transcendental paraphernalia.' "

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Hari-śauri: We can go down to the right, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...difference between a śūdra and brāhmaṇa. A śūdra can be misled at any moment. That is stated in... Strī śūdra. Woman and śūdra on the same class. You can mislead them by high talkings: "Oh, I am coming from Indian prince." They come here, marry some European, and go to India and then engage him (her) for collecting water in bucket. One Muhammadan crewman, a vagabond, he bluffed one girl that "I am coming from Muhammadan prince family." Then she married, and she went to Allahabad, and she was given borakhā and she was living in a hut, and then she was bringing water from the street. She wrote a letter to the Viceroy that "This is my position." Then police came and rescued her and sent her.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: A local policeman said that in England there are more laws protecting the dogs than there are protecting the children. If you beat your children, then no problem. If you beat your dog, immediately they'll come arrest you.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Bhagavān: I've seen in India, they are bringing foreign dogs.

Jayatīrtha: Even that one gosvāmī in Vṛndāvana, he has got French dogs.

Prabhupāda: That poodles. He's rascal. And such a fool, "Jagat-guru." So you go.

Jayatīrtha: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: In, actually, in Bengal, Bengal has lost its original culture. In other provinces the brāhmaṇa class, they are keeping very strictly the original culture. Even a brāhmaṇa would not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife, because woman is considered śūdra. The woman, when she becomes the wife of a brāhmaṇa, then she is called brāhmaṇī, but she's not offered brahminical culture. She remains as śūdra. So therefore a strict brāhmaṇa does not accept foodstuff prepared by his wife. Still there are in U.P. The wife will arrange for cooking, and he'll sit down and cook dāl, cāpāṭis. Then he will eat, and whatever remains, that is there, that will be taken by her. But he will not take foodstuff cooked by his even wife. And if there are several brāhmaṇas, so each one of them will cook his own food. In Calcutta, mostly the rich men they used to keep the collector's darwans, they are called darwans. Means guard, policemen, guard. They're all, very big, big brāhmaṇa family, they used to take, accept the job. But each of them, even in police, I have seen, they are cooking separately. They take bath thrice, cook their own food, very strictly. The government had to give them a big hall for cooking. So, it will not take much space, say, little space. One small oven and demarcated: "This, you see, is mine, and then I, you get, this is yours, this is yours." So within that space they'll sit down and cook dāl, cāpāṭis, rice, one vegetable, and cook, and immediately all the utensils will be cleansed and washed, and the space washed and kept. You'd like to eat, they cook so nicely, although simple. And I have got practical experience, if you cook your own food, whatever it may be, it is healthy.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Seems they're always carrying little snippets of information about what we're doing. Before there was a report about the restaurants, and here there's two reports about..., one about the Jagannātha festival in New York and one about the proposed Vedic university in Kurukṣetra. These were on consecutive days. The one about New York, it says, "Washington, July the 19th." That's where it's reported from. It says, "New York saw on Sunday an unusual spectacle of three brightly colored chariots being pulled along the city's prestigious Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, a distance of about five kilometers, by members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa group. The rathas, built in Orissan style with giant wooden wheels, attracted large crowds of spectators all along the route. It was a novel experience for the New Yorkers. Many resident Indians who are not members of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement enthusiastically gave a hand in the pulling. The Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees were celebrating the feast of Jagannātha in the traditional Indian way. The police and the city administration readily cooperated. In a city that is coming to be known for its tolerance of diverse cultures, chariot processions promise to be an annual event. While a few citizens booed and some altercations were reported, the spectacle was well received by the New Yorkers. 'I think it is great,' the New York Times quoted a man as saying. The person, who identified himself as a visitor to New York and was not a Hare Kṛṣṇa fan, referring to the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees, added, 'They are all happy and dancing, and that's what life's all about.' Later a vegetarian feast was served to the admirers."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Oh, stopped that business?

Bhagavān: Yes. He's full time here. He had plumbing business, so he does all the plumbing here. And he meets all the officials, the police, and they like him. He is older man. He has a very nice way of presenting himself.

Hari-śauri: He's been here over a year now.

Bhagavān: Several months ago we had a parents' meeting. Because on account of this man Moon, there was much agitation about groups taking young children away. So we had a very nice meeting with prasādam and slides, and one of the parents was saying that "We want to be angry at you, but the problem is that you are all so nice that we cannot be angry."

Prabhupāda: One gentleman has joined, he has paid five thousand dollars. His whole family has joined.

Harikeśa: Just now? That's nice.

Bhagavān: His wife's the same too.

Harikeśa: Oh? (break)

Bhagavān: I wanted to get Kṛṣṇa book published while you are here. So I really pushed our printer to work very hard. I told him, "But the thing is, I have no money to pay you right now," because we had just printed Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He said, "You try to give me five percent down and I'll give you eight months' credit."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.

Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?

Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.

Prabhupāda: Pleasure... So that is child. The child also feels pleasure with something. But it is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of view. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day. But the father does not allow him. If you leave, let the child seeks his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian, let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. There is no need of training, schooling, colleges. There is no need. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced, by force she used to... My father was lenient and my mother kept a special man, yamadhara(?), that, "Your duty is to take him by force to the school." Yes. My father, my mother would complain that "Your boy did not go to school." "Oh, he did not go to school?" And I was sure he was very affectionate. "Why?" "No, I shall go tomorrow." Then father, "All right, he will go tomorrow, that's all right." But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: You have got independence to misuse your independence. That independence you have got. You have been given intelligence. Now you have got, because you have got intelligence, little independence, you can misuse that. Just like you are all my secretaries. So I give you some independence. You can misuse it. So that misuse is wrong. Then you'll become unhappy. Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Says. He doesn't force you—you must do it. You do it. That means independence. Now it is your choice. You have got independence of misusing it. So independence is a quality inherent in living beings, because he's part and parcel of God. The quality of the father is inherited by the son, even physically. Similarly, you have..., God is fully independent, you have got little touch of independence. Now that independence is properly utilized when you carry out the order of God. That is proper. Ordinarily, every country is independent. Does it mean that he is cent percent independent? No. Then why there is police department? Similarly, we are part and parcel of God. We have got little independence. But if we misuse it, then we shall be punished. So there is no question of independence. Independence, little. That is interdependence, not independence. Why they declare independence? That is their foolishness.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mr. S. K. Samani?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: S. K. Samani, yes, Shri Krishna Samani. He liked it very much. Now the government has kept two policemen outside our Vṛndāvana temple to control the traffic, there is so much traffic. The policemen told me that we get even more people than Bankibihārī. But I don't think it's a fact, but the policemen say the crowd is bigger than Bankibihārī.

Driver: Should I take it around the gate? (conversation in Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also a lot of people are coming to the Delhi temple. The Maharani of Jaipur comes every second day. She is the daughter-in-law of the Maharani Gayatridevi. Everyone, lot of, many people are coming every day to our temple in Delhi.

Prabhupāda: What about Hyderabad?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Hyderabad will be ready, I was there last week. It will be ready in time. The chief minister of Andhra Pradesh is coming as the chief guest on the day the temple will be opened.

Driver: We are getting very good bungalow in Ahmedabad. Six bedroom with six baths, all marble.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But we don't have any devotees there. What will we do?

Driver: There are eight devotees at least. They have to vacate in any case. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...newsstands also. Yaśomatīnandana has made some arrangement with some distributor.

Prabhupāda: Newsstand?

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: The local police intelligence officer in Krishnagar, when I went to see him, he told me, (Bengali). Like that, he told me. "Definitely I make you an Indian citizen." So they are favorable. I don't know how much they can do, but locally they are favorable.

Gargamuni: Now on the weekend we have tours of the building. Many groups of people come. Fifty in a group sometimes come and visit.

Prabhupāda: Tourists.

Gargamuni: Yes, tourists, and we take then on tour of the building. That's Subhaga. He takes them on tour and he gives some preaching. So many people are coming.

Prabhupāda: Subhaga is in charge of that?

Gargamuni: Yes, he does.

Jayapatākā: Others are there also. One new boy is very good.

Gargamuni: Kiśora.

Jayapatākā: Kiśora dāsa. He's also translating. He's a little more strong than Subhaga, although new. Very good boy, very humble. He's from a good family also.

Prabhupāda: What is the flood situation?

Gargamuni: Very mild monsoon this year. Almost drought. Almost. Very mild. Very little rain.

Prabhupāda: Rain is not very strong.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And they are not giving citizenship?

Jayapatākā: Myself? What happened was I applied last September. So now it's nearly one year, so they had sent my application from Māyāpur to Calcutta, Writer's Building. Again back. Again Writer's Building, then to Delhi. Then Delhi sent again back. I went, and I asked the secretary, and I found out that they had sent again back from Delhi, again back to Māyāpur and then re-investigated me. At that time they brought in some local people, and one investigator, he said that "This Jayapatākā Swami, we have heard that he is a very bad person. He beats the people." They said, "No, We never heard such thing." "No, no. We have heard that he is very bad." In this way by negative they are testing. They came and told me that for two hours police is drilling three different people from Navadvīpa and Māyāpur. In this way no one said a bad...

Prabhupāda: No, if you are a famous man, then they'll do.

Gargamuni: Him and Bhavānanda.

Jayapatākā: Now Bhavānanda is more famous.

Prabhupāda: He is notorious.

Jayapatākā: But now he is in the papers.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) He... You are famous; he is notorious. It is very difficult to deal with these nonsense. They are devotees and either notorious or famous. Our Godbrothers, they do not like Bhavānanda.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, that's all right.

Jayapatākā: It's four or five hundred yards from the Palpara Railway Station. It's the next station from Chuktaha, under Chuktaha police station.

Prabhupāda: Chuktaha? Chugda.

Jayapatākā: Chugda: That's where you take your... That mango orchard where you take your lunch? That's just the nearest place go Chugda. So he was very pleased with all the work that you are doing. He's in Vṛndāvana now for Janmāṣṭamī. He hadn't been to Vṛndāvana for about five years, so he went to Vṛndāvana for darśana. He may be there even when you go. I'm not sure if he'll be there.

Prabhupāda: You have advised to see our temple?

Jayapatākā: Yes, he'll definitely visit. I also gave him an introduction that if he goes, he should be received there. He's got... The present place where the Deities are situated is on four cuttas(?) of land. And apart from that, where Maheśa Paṇḍita's samādhi is, he's got three bighās of land. That's right next door to a four-hundred-year-old temple.

Prabhupāda: Chugda is to the... It is from Shrirampuri? No.

Jayapatākā: No, it's on this side of the Ganges. It's on the eastern side of the Ganges.

Prabhupāda: Oh, eastern.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you require permission of the landlord if he pays.

Gargamuni: No, no. Even if he doesn't. Any construction...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't think that is the law. That is the law? I am feeling inconvenience; I cannot repair?

Gargamuni: No.

Jayapatākā: No, how that can be? You can tell the police.

Gargamuni: No, then you have to go to the court, and that takes ten years. Just like he's in the court for five years now. He is not taking our rent.

Prabhupāda: Then let us repair. Let him go to the court. Because by repairing, we have broken the law, so let him go to the court. The same logic.

Gargamuni: Actually, Abhirāma... Also the facility for living there is only good for five or six persons. Otherwise it is not good. So they want to get a building.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to the corner house? What happened to the corner house?

Gargamuni: No, that is still there.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you purchase it?

Gargamuni: Which corner one? The one right across?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Left corner.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is in West Bengal?

Jayapatākā: West Bengal. That's in Nadia district. Just before Pulasi, south of Pulasi. And when we came there and I saw the police in the afternoon, we told them we were going to have a function. So they said that they would send a few policemen. They said that "We will send some policemen for keeping the order." But that night so many people came the space could only hold four thousand. But another two, three thousand people came, and they were turned away because of insufficient space. So they were standing on the wall and on the rooftops all around, and all you could see were people's heads, just like an ocean. The policemen, after it was over... When I chanted, I chanted, "Everyone please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And I chanted the full mantra three times. They chanted so loud that even two, three blocks away people thought that the heavens were shouting. It was like a thunder...

Prabhupāda: Thunderbolt.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Jayapatākā: Thunderbolt. And the policemen said that never—even the chief minister came here once—not even half so many people came, and that was announced for one week. This was announced for one day and more people came than ever before. He said, "This really shows me that the people are hungry for spiritual answer. They have no one to lead them."

Gargamuni: And these leaders are simply envious, that's all. The only reason why they're not helping us is because they're envious. Because so many people are interested and no one is interested in them.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, our Gītār Gān is selling.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Our subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that systematize... The progress of human society should be systematized according to śāstra. Just like your government, it is conducted under certain rules and regulations. You have to refer to the government regulative principles, and expert government officers, they are selected. Formally it was ICS, now it is IAS. That means reference to the authorities. Similarly, there are authorities which are called śāstra. Śās-dhātu means to rule. From Śās-dhātu, śāstra and śastra. Śastra means weapon. If you do not act according to the śāstra then there is śastra. Śastra means weapon, government. If you violate the rules of the government then there is police department, there is military department which will force you to accept the government regulation. And from the same śās-dhātu is śiṣya, one who voluntarily accepts the discipline.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, fifty thousand people come every year.

Prabhupāda: And this time, New York, the government, the police, they appreciated that this kind of dancing, it is not artificial. So here is life. They appreciated. What the American boys have got to dance for Kṛṣṇa unless it is from the heart? They are not dancing dogs that I have trained them and they are dancing. So there are so many things to be done in India but I am, without getting any cooperation, I am getting opposition.

Krishna Modi: Quite. Now let us, we must be active. We must be active.

Prabhupāda: It will be good for the country, for the whole nation.

Krishna Modi: And we will come Vṛndāvana also.

Prabhupāda: Please come. I am there for three weeks.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now things are deteriorating. And fire is always... (Siren bell sound:) dungdung dungdungdungdungdung-gawaawaawaa. Saṁsāra-dāvānala. Still they think that they are advanced. In one hour three times fire, still he is advanced. Therefore he is mūḍha. At least, in small city such disturbances are not... It is always gawaagawaagawaa.

Hari-śauri: Police, ambulance, fires.

Prabhupāda: How the city life is attractive we cannot understand.

Hari-śauri: (laughs) Ask him. He's always telling us how New York is the best place in the world.

Prabhupāda: You were born in New York?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: That is mother and... (laughter) Jananī jana. (Sanskrit) Any rotten place, but birthplace has got some attraction.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone, government official, police, public, all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was how many miles?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From Washington Square Park... How many miles? At least four or five miles.

Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete. From one end to the other.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The government had sealed it off.

Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.

Prabhupāda: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement. They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was bigger (?) in the police court M.A., B.A... Now, I repeatedly told him that "You stay here and write Hindi."

Devotee (2): He didn't stay here?

Prabhupāda: He stayed for one week or 15 days. (Hindi)

Devotee (3): (Hindi)

Devotee (4): L-A-R-Y-N-X. Cavity with enclosing muscles and mucus membrane behind and communicating with nose, mouth and larynx.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Here this side, this space some connection, when it is affected that is called laryngitis.

Hari-śauri: Hm.

Prabhupāda: I know some of the medical terms.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Remedy is they should admit that there is God. But they do not admit, especially the so-called scientist rascals and atheist philosophers, politicians. They do not accept the authority of God. They think they will be able to manage things in their own way. And they say clearly, "There is no God." But there is nature. You can say, "I don't care for the government but the government force is there; police is there; military is there. Similarly, you may say, "Defy the control of government," but the agent of God is there, the material nature. That will punish you. There will be no rain, there will be no food production, and the rascal governments will take advantage of it, "food relief." They'll tax, as if by taxing they will be able to combat with nature. So three things we'll have to meet: no rain, no food, and government taxes. Then how people will remain in sane condition? They will become mad.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Struggle must be there. You cannot stop it.

Jagadīśa: In Montreal for about two years...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, since His birth struggled. (laughs)

Jagadīśa: We had harassment from the police in Montreal for two years. Sometimes they even beat up the devotees. They have put them into jail...

Prabhupāda: They have beaten even our book sellers in airports.

Hari-śauri: Chicago.

Jagadīśa: And the police mistreat the devotees. But still, the devotees continue and now in Montreal there's no trouble.

Prabhupāda: They crucified Jesus, what to speak of devotees. Prahlāda Mahārāja was persecuted, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I think I shall not go to Europe, America, for some time. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- December 7, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: Well, if they're going to have to arrange a program in eight days, they have to run around to see so many people, get leaflets printed, get banners painted, see municipal people, see police people.

Prabhupāda: For that reason van is required?

Haṁsadūta: No, he can do everything by...

Mahāṁśa: They have extra vans here.

Haṁsadūta: It's not practical. I tell you, these vans... It's not practical to take these vans and drive them around the cities. It's very dangerous. It's not practical. It's easier to go by rickshaw.

Mahāṁśa: What about a small one?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, the small ones. I mean, it's easier to go by rickshaw. It's a fact, you know. We had this experience...

Prabhupāda: No, there is local bus. For one, two men van running is not good.

Room Conversation -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Hari-śauri: No, she was the Prime Minister as well. She's the opposition now.

Prabhupāda: Woman is acting as police in England.

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles there was this one man at the temple that we suspected that he had a gun. So we called the police. It is a difficult job for police when someone has a gun. They always send the best men. So a car pulled up and a woman got out, and she crept up on the man to arrest him and the men stayed in the car.

Prabhupāda: Everything is becoming a farce. (pause) What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are just some letters I'm sending with Rādhā-vallabha to Los Angeles.

Rādhā-vallabha: When we reprint the Kṛṣṇa Book trilogy this year, the hardbound, I was wondering, could we put more pictures in the second and third volumes? Not changing, but additional.

Prabhupāda: Why increase cost?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think it would be that much. The first volume has over sixty pictures and the second one only has thirty-two and the third only has twenty-four. Anyway, anything we do will increase the cost but not so significant. Few cents. We were thinking that the Kṛṣṇa Books were originally printed many many years ago and since then we have a lot of nice paintings of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes that we could put in.

Prabhupāda: If you can give without increasing price, there is no harm. Or for this cents. Let us.

Page Title:Police (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:10 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=72, Let=0
No. of Quotes:72