Point of view (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"point of view" |"points of view" |"view point" |"view points" |"viewpoint" |"viewpoints"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 13, 1976, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: I do not follow what you say.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, my point is that they're always feeling that you are creating brāhmaṇas amongst such low-class persons. So I see that they...

Prabhupāda: If I am creating brāhmaṇas, how he is low class?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we don't agree that he is low class.

Prabhupāda: No, no. If he says we are creating brāhmaṇa, then where is low class? From logical point of view.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, from low class to high class, he says.

Prabhupāda: Actually, everyone is Brahman. So from this conditioned life of non-Brahman, if we create Brahman, what is the wrong there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Original position.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Ah. (break) Manipuri.

Jayapatāka: Many Manipuri people are coming to Māyāpur now. Many. They wear a special type of uniform, the women, one pinkish dress.

Prabhupāda: For seeing our temple?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: And what is Rādhākamal Mukherjee?

Bhavānanda: " 'He has been a prolific writer and commentator and has traveled and discoursed widely in different parts of India. His profound illuminative discourses have everywhere created a genuine interest in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and in the dynamic religious movement he represents.' There may not be any doubt among the well-informed people that the Śrī Caitanya Maṭha, with its branches, Śrī Gauḍīya Maṭhas, throughout India and abroad, have been propagating the greatest religion, which, from a realistic point of view, has helped to build up a true civilization. Today, due to the activities of Śrī Caitanya Maṭha, a spiritual thirst has been created, especially among the deep-thinking and educated people of the world, for people from all over the world are coming to this institution to learn and follow the great religion of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and to understand the practical Indian way of life. Today the headquarter extends over a mile, with beautiful temples, yet standing in an atmosphere of absorbing silence of meditation and worship, surrounded on all sides by emerald green paddy fields and the Ganges flowing hard by, far from the madding crowd's strife and strain. 'Māyāpur is now an enchanted place, the abode of peace. The atmosphere of the place is charming. The chanting of the holy name of Hari all day and night takes one to a celestial place.' "

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't hear the chanting from their maṭha all day and night.

Bhavānanda: No, it's only from here. "It is more heavenly than heaven itself. It is the sacred Vṛndāvana of Bengal, hallowed by the dancing steps of the Lord, and its air is purified by His noble call to prayer. Whoever pays a visit to her will leave her with regret, and those who have not yet visited the place will carry their regrets unto death."

Prabhupāda: So he is making some propaganda that he is the...

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Irrespective of what kind of animal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now if you can serve the purpose by killing one animal, why should you take the risk of killing many animals?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if that one animal is a cow.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Animal is animal. And we say protect cow from economic point of view, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Without saving cows you cannot get good food, not from the animal point of view. You require milk and milk preparation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And the cow dies anyway.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cow is going to die naturally, anyway.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, if you want flesh, take that dead body and eat.

Morning Walk -- March 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: I am Indian. Why, you Americans, you should obey me? You have done it voluntarily. Yes. So, (chuckles) in India they appreciate me only on this point, that I am Indian; how I am controlling so many Americans? That is their appreciation. (laughter) So this acceptance of guru means voluntarily surrender. Yes. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). The instruction is there in the... They were friends, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. From material point of view, they are equal. He is also belonging to the royal family, he is also belonging to the royal family, and they are cousin brothers, equal footing, friend. But still, Arjuna said, "Now there is no solution. I become Your disciple." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: "I surrender." And this is sisya, surrender. And then lessons on Bhagavad-gītā began. So we have to surrender voluntarily; otherwise discipline cannot be implemented. That is wanted. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it mentions in The Nectar of Devotion that in the viddhi-mārga there are many things we don't want to do but we must do in order to make advancement.

Prabhupāda: No, that is also modern government, democracy. I do not want to do something, but the Parliament pass the laws. We have to do, even I do not like. That is discipline. Just like C. R. Das. C. R. Das was one of the prominent member of Indian Congress. So he was earning in those days, fifty years ago, fifty thousand rupees per month. It is twenty times now increased.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): (break) ...not only have your books there in the New York Public Library, but the head librarian of that Oriental division did the review also.

Prabhupāda: "...government(?) of postgraduate college..." Oh, O.B.L. Kapoor. (break) "It is an exhaustive plan of original Sanskrit text in Devanāgarī, then a translation, English synonym... What practitioner of philosophy cannot but be attracted to this serious student and scholar of Sanskrit language and Hindu religion and philosophy? The viewpoint of a devotee cum scholar has the advantage of making the philosophy meaningful to any practical-minded person."

Devotees: Jaya.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this professor calls you "uncompromising." He said that you are "uncompromising."

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is my philosophy. Read it. Read it somebody.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And practically... Eh?

Dr. Patel: We are killing the body and not... The soul is inkillable.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Don't go to the philosophy. First of all come to the practical. (Dr. Patel laughs) Come to the practical point of view, that after all, you have to eat; otherwise you cannot live. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. So if you have to live another living entity, then how you can practice this ahiṁsā? Mean on the basic principle, the ahiṁsā paramo dharma, where is ahiṁsā? You have to kill. Either you kill vegetable or animal, you have to kill. Then where is the standing of ahiṁsā? That is my point.

Dr. Patel: When you kill purposelessly, without any useful...

Prabhupāda: No, no. No interpretation. They say that "no killing." So no killing is not possible. That is my point. Then where is the thesis stands, that "We are for not, no killing"?

Dr. Patel: Every action, sir, is, I mean, entangled in this.

Prabhupāda: So then our Vaiṣṇava's philosophy is perfect, because we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say vegetables. We are not advocating vegetarianism. We are advocating that "You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam." How perfect it is. We are not so nonsense that "Because we have become vegetarian, we are perfect." The goats are vegetarian.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Guru-kṛpā: In Vṛndāvana, when we were staying at Bon's place, there was big colony of ants. Ants, thousands of them.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have got all the sense, all the sympathy. For eating, sleeping, mating, they have got all intelligence.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What I mean to say is, physiologically speaking, at least from biological viewpoint, some of these creatures don't even have hearts. They're much easier to manufacture, the parts of their bodies.

Prabhupāda: You say there is no heart just like you say no soul. That is your vers.... I say that "When he is doing everything like a human being he has got everything." It is your insufficient knowledge that you say that.... Just like you say there is no soul. But that is your insufficient knowledge. That's not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna (BG 18.61). When Īśvara is in everyone's heart, how you can.... Hṛd-deśe. How you say there is no heart? That is nonsense, another nonsense.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No misunderstanding. It is a common sense that if you have got respect for a person, instead of installing his form—either it is statue or stone, it doesn't matter—keeping it outside and giving chance the bird to pass stool on his head, if you keep that statue in a nice place, which is more respectful? That is my question. It is a common sense. If you have got respect for a person.... You have installed the statue. Don't call Deity. Statue. So which is more respectful, to keep him exposed on the open field or to keep him in a temple?

Guest (2): Well, I think if I was looking at it in your point of view, it would be more respectful to put him inside.

Prabhupāda: That's the.... That is the point.

Guest (4): That's your point of view, not ours.

Prabhupāda: Then? That is your.... I do not know what is your point of view, that you expose this to the open air and the birds pass stool on it and you still...

Guest (2): It is simply a workmanship of man to make the building maybe more...

Prabhupāda: I am just talking on the practical point of view. Which is more respectful? Apart from other points, if we actually offer somebody respect, then you must give him proper respect.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Prabhupāda: It is not my—everyone's. You are in ignorance; you do not know; therefore we are trying to educate you. It is yours also. It is not a personal thing. It is meant for the living entities. That you people, you do not know, that we are all living entities. There is slight description of the evolution by Darwin. But he's also not in perfect knowledge. The real fact is the..., I am not this body, you are not this body. I am living entity within this body. Just like you are within your coat and shirt. The coat and shirt you are not. Similarly, we living entities, we are within this gross and subtle body. The gross body is made of earth, water, air, fire, and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence, and egotism. So we are within this. So nobody knows; there is no educational system, what is our real constitutional position. We are wrongly accepting this body. And that kind of acceptance is there in the animals. The dog also thinking that "I am this body." So if I am thinking like that, "I am this body," then what is the difference between the dog and me? We are educating from him that point of view, that the living entity is entrapped within this body, and according to his desire, he's changing different types of body and undergoing continually birth and death. So in order to save him from the cycle of birth and death, one has to understand God, or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means God. Then he comes to his real, identical position as spiritual body, and then he lives forever. He lives forever. Just like a man changing constantly dresses; that does not mean he's dying. Similarly, we do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body, we are not dying. We remain. But we simply accept another body. So this is a great botheration. But people are in ignorance. They're thinking that after death there is no life. This ignorance is a great, I mean to say, difficult position. So we are trying to educate them how to get out of this entanglement of cycle, birth and death. And therefore there are so many books on this subject matter. It is a very serious movement. It is not compared to the so many rascal movements. So if you are serious, you can study our books, you can try to understand the philosophy, science; then the whole human society will be benefited.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: While I was in New York, I've been going to the United Nations building there, and there's a organization called ECOSOC, the Economic and Social Council. It's made up of the members of the U.N. and I think there's very good chance that our society can be represented amongst this group as a nongovernmental organization, which means that in various matters which the council discusses, we would be a consultive group and we would be able to present statements as well as literature on how to solve..., on our viewpoint on how to solve various problems facing the council. And these would be distributed to all the United Nations representatives.

Prabhupāda: As soon as you say "God," they will reject.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually, one of the things which this council handles is freedom of religion throughout the world.

Prabhupāda: That means they do not believe in God. Freedom of religion means whatever you like, you do.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: That is going on. Religion is not very important.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hari-śauri: Hogs as well?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hogs, also like.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From the material point of view people cannot see the purpose of accepting responsibility.

Prabhupāda: I do not follow. What is this?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, from the spiritual point of view, we know that if we're not responsible, then we have to suffer great consequences according to our actions. From the material point of view, though, people can live an irresponsible life, and they have some earnings. They feel that they can enjoy. What is the need for morality?

Prabhupāda: Then what is a responsible life? Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, their whole plan is to avoid responsibility.

Prabhupāda: That is sinful. As soon as you irresponsible, you are sinful. (break) ...soon as you forget the simple truth that you are servant of God, you are irresponsible. Now your suffering begins. (break) ...kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). Just like as citizen of your state, you have to abide by the laws of the state. As soon as you disobey, you are irresponsible. That's all. You suffer. Good citizen means who abides by the laws of the state. And as soon as you break it, immediately you are irresponsible and you must be punished.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...attracting men to the city.

Devotee (1): Because everyone is leaving the city.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Hari-śauri: But not from an industrialist's point of view.

Ambarīṣa: The cities are simply becoming for the low-class people. Cities are simply filled now with the low-class people. No respectable people can walk safely in the streets.

Devotee (1): In Detroit at five o'clock it becomes like a ghost town. No one walking. They are all afraid. If low-class people move into the buildings, everything becomes rundown, not kept up. So now they're investing millions and millions of dollars to build new buildings, new stores, to make it attractive again.

Prabhupāda: They'll not attempt to make the low-class men high class. Huh? Why they are lacking that point?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually the high-class man and the low-class man, their activities are the same. Simply they are living in bigger and smaller houses. They smoke the same cigarettes and they drink the same.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say why not make them high class.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, when the cow is dead, you dig, or put it within the.... Or take it. No, nobody will object. In India, that is the system. When the cow is dead, there is a class, they are called cobblers, camar(?). They are informed and they'll come. They'll take it. And they'll eat the flesh and take the skin, and tan it in their own method, and then prepare shoes. They sell it in the market. So without any price, they get the skin, they eat the flesh. So nobody is harmed. But there is a class.... (break) ...they are not going to starve. From economic point of view, it is very good. So why you are killing and maintaining so big, big slaughterhouse? Let everyone maintain the cows for taking milk. And when it dies, you take it, you meat-eaters. Make that arrangement.

Rakṣaṇa: They spend so much money on force-feeding the cows (indistinct)

Mādhavānanda: It's actually been proven that the animal's flesh becomes poison. Because of the fear of the animal, he releases adrenalin in his bloodstream, and this adrenalin makes the meat poisonous to the human system, proven scientifically.

Hari-śauri: Causing cancer.

Mādhavānanda: And that is one of the causes of cancer.

Prabhupāda: I think we published some article.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: "And what nonsense book you have got? (laughter) We are going to stop your sales." Tell them. "And we are going to stop your sales. Instead of helping you for selling your books, we are going to stop all these nonsense books. That is our mission." Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśo jagat-pavitraṁ pragṛṇīta karhicit, tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ (SB 1.5.10). That verse, that however nicely it is written with..., what is called, metaphor, poetic ornaments and very good language, grammatical set-up, and so on, so on. So that, although it is very nicely written from literary point of view, but because it does not contain any glorification of Kṛṣṇa, it is just like the spot where the crows take pleasure. Crows. The crows means they go the nasty place where all nasty things are thrown. They take pleasure there. So all these other literatures, they are meant for the crows. And this literature is meant for the swan, paramahaṁsa, white swans. So it is not the bodily color. It means those who are advanced in their development of life, consciousness, it is meant for them. It is not for the crows, who are still eating all nasty things in the garbage. Crows, they do that. They take pleasure where there are garbage, all nasty things and.... And the big swans, they will like water like this, garden like this. That is.... Even in the lower animals, there is difference between the crow's society and swan's society. (police car sounds) What is this?

Mādhavānanda: Police car.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Love? This is love or lust?

Satsvarūpa: He says there's a definite connection between the flesh and love, and you can't deny it, he said. I argued with him, but that was his viewpoint, that love is expressed through the flesh.

Prabhupāda: Then how he has become a doctor in Vaiṣṇava philosophy?

Devotee: He's a sick doctor.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That would mean that the dog is a great lover.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is explanation, what is the difference between lust and love.

Satsvarūpa: I told him if you observe the devotees, you'll see they have very affectionate loving dealings with one another, but it's not based on the flesh. We don't have to...

Prabhupāda: That is lust. Sahajiyā. Lust is going on as love. (break) ...reviewed Dr. Judah's book?

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? Everything is explained. By seeing the sun one can understand the sunshine, the sun globe and the sun-god. There are three things. Within the sun globe, there is the sun-god. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "I spoke to Vivasvata." So there is a person Vivasvata, and the globe is there, we see, and the sunshine is there. So what is the difficulty to understand? Three things are there. The person within the sun globe, Vivasvata, is there, otherwise how Kṛṣṇa could speak with him? He says, imaṁ vivasvate yogam, "unto Vivasvata I spoke." So there is a person. And we can see the globe, and we can see the sunshine. Is there any difficulty? So similarly, the Brahman is the sunshine, light, and Paramātmā is the sun globe, and Bhagavān is the sun-god. This is, the sun is one example. From this example, we can understand the Absolute. Where is the difficulty? (aside:) Sit down properly. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). As heat and light, all of them are the same... In the sunshine there is heat and light, in the sun globe there is heat and light, and within the sun globe there is heat and light, but the temperature is different. You can tolerate the heat and light of the sunshine, but if you go to the sun globe you'll be finished. Temperature's so high, it requires a special qualification. Similarly, from heat and light point of view, Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān, the same. Everywhere there is heat and light, but the temperature is different. So one who understands Brahman, he cannot understand Paramātmā. He understands, but not as thoroughly. Similarly, one who understands Paramātmā, he can (not) understand Bhagavān, but if you understand Bhagavān, then you understand Paramātmā, Brahman, everything.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't want anything from you; you take it, the whole flesh. You take free. You simply give us the skin, we can utilize it.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even if people would do this, it would be such an advancement.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Because a class of men will demand to eat the flesh. You cannot stop it. So we are giving free: you eat. And from economic point of view, we require the skin for our mṛdaṅga making. So give us the skin. That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda says the butcher, even, he can sell the meat cheaply, make profit. He's getting it free of charge.

Hari-śauri: Maybe some time in the future this could happen when Kṛṣṇa consciousness becomes very powerful influence in the country, but unless we could actually close the slaughterhouse...

Prabhupāda: No, but now by imploring, we are requesting him that "You can take this cow and sell in your shop, butcher shop, you give us the skin. And you can tell the customer that it is as good, it is cheaper. So whatever money you get, that is your profit. You haven't got to invest anything."

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Do you propose that we should do this now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, this is... Think over.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is artificial.

Hari-śauri: But that is their rules and regulations they have.

Prabhupāda: They'll change. When they, by chemical analysis, they don't find any fault, then they can change. From economic point of view, why this body should be wasted? Let it be utilized. Those that are eating, let them eat. And economic point of view, we save the skin. We require it for our purpose. That is the agreement. After all, we require the skin for our khol making.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: For the farm straps?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Shoes, slippers, so many things. I think Kīrtanānanda Swami has done that with some of the cows. They have taken the hide for making things, straps.

Hari-śauri: They're not doing it now, though.

Prabhupāda: But we should not do it ourselves.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Not that everything we have to do. No. That will deteriorate. Those who are doing, let it be done by them.

Hari-śauri: It seems like it will be a long time before we can implement something like that.

Prabhupāda: I am proposing, think over it. Because it is a fact that in spite our vigorous propaganda, we cannot stop meat-eating. That is not possible. People will eat. So those who are eating, let us make some arrangement that "You take it free of charges." From economic point of view, they get it free. They can make good profit. And we are interested with the skin. So why not make some arrangement? It is practical.

Hari-śauri: That's very good.

Prabhupāda: Instead of the thing being wasted for nothing, let us devise some means, that you are eating, you can eat. And we want the skin, let us give him. What is the wrong there?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Perfect economics.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We require the skin, that's a fact. And you want to eat, all right, eat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Could such a thing be done today in India also?

Prabhupāda: No, why it will be done? Everywhere it should be. That is the... Who does not eat meat? First of all, you try this. From economic point of view, why one thing should be wasted?

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Not outside. Not like England, they have to import from... This is a very good example. Just like salt, we require. A little salt will increase the taste. But because it is absolutely necessary for eating, salt—everyone eats salt, nobody can avoid salt—it does not mean I shall eat too much. If I take this whole salt pot and put into..., "It is very good," that is foolishness. Similarly, sense gratification, so long we have got this material body, we require little. But because it is tasty, let us take it, whole pot, that is mistake. This is going on. This foolishness is going on. Sex life is good; simply take sex life, go on and spoil your whole life. That is going on. If everything is accepted in regulative principle, little salt, that's all, that's very nice. But as soon as you think "It is very nice. Let me take simply this," then it is spoiled. That is wanted. We don't reject anything but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animals? There are so many other animals. The goats are there, the lambs are there, the hogs are there. Take them. Why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? It is a very important animal. It will give you brain substance, this rasagullā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. But this rascal has no knowledge. The cows give us milk, very nutritious. "Oh, eat the whole cow. Then all nutrition will come." This is their intelligence. Rubbish civilization. Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow. Give protection, take milk from it, and prepare nice preparations, that will be good for brain, for your mind. Apart from... There is no question of religious sentiment. From practical.

Rūpānuga: Just the medical point of view, it is right.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they will say like that, "fallacious," but you have to make them down. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the TV it was very favorable. The interview was just a professor at the University of Florida, and he's a professor of religion and history. We were speaking how life comes from life from a philosophical and scientific point of view, and he received very well and asked questions also.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the very complex molecules, very slight probability, practically none, that this could happen by chance. There has to be some intelligence. It is very good argument for chemistry point of view.

Hari-śauri: Even anyone with a little common sense can understand that a very simple thing cannot produce a highly complicated thing. It's such an obvious point, but they have to have so many mathematical equations to accept it.

Prabhupāda: Dictaphone, so many complicated, then it is working.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

time.

Rūpānuga: They are coming to watch the fireworks. You see, from here, the fireworks are going to be very high in the sky. They can see it from this point. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...celebration, independence from our point of view?

Hari-śauri: From our point of view, it doesn't have any meaning. For a conditioned soul to think that he's independent...

Prabhupāda: It is foolishness.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think they're free from being controlled by the British, for example. Free from being controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is some meaning. That's all right. But where is your independence? You are fully under the control of the laws of nature. So where is your independence?

Yadubara: There is none.

Prabhupāda: Simply dog dancing is independence?

Vṛṣākapi: Ultimately, they are declaring their independence of God, Kṛṣṇa. They can do as they like.

Prabhupāda: Then where is that independence? You can declare anything. A crazy man can say anything, but where is your independence?

Rūpānuga: In fact, they are bound up.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you see the way physical and atomical constitution of the animal and the man, the same. If you say man has soul, then the animal has also soul. If you deny that man has no soul, then you can also deny. But so far physiological... They, in the biological laboratory, they dissect the frogs to see the similar arrangement. So how you can you say the frog has no soul? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, on Saturday Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about the scientific proof of the Absolute Truth from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. When one realizes Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, does one also see like how the physical world is manifesting itself? Do we understand all physical laws, how chemicals are combining, or...? What do we actually understand when we understand the Absolute Truth?

Prabhupāda: Absolute Truth, there is direction. Scientific explanation is... You were showing the picture that everything is being performed under some direction, not whimsically. Therefore there is somebody dictating.

Sadāpūta: You see the cause of everything?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you want to be fool, Kṛṣṇa makes you a better fool.

Sadāpūta: He's also the greatest cheat.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...to become devotee. And if you want to become rogue, He'll give you all facility to become rogue. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). He's so kind.

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're doing all these studies about science from a Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view, and yet the gopīs didn't care anything for this; they just simply wanted to love Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They did not care for anything except Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are all perfect. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Sadāpūta: Do we accept the way bacteria's reproduce, by fission, splitting in half? I know Kapiladeva instructs there are four different methods—the egg, the lump of flesh, etc. The scientists are saying that bacteria split in half and produce two daughter cells.

Prabhupāda: Bacteria is produced from fermentation. Sveda-ja. Just like nasty bedding, from your perspiration, if you don't clean, then bugs will come. Sveda-ja. In India, the Europeans they eat meat, and automatically bugs and germs come within their coat and shirt due to bad perspiration.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Indian devotee: Actually, other Indians also commented they appreciate it very much. That was the first time I started association, then I came to realize, ah, my direction, I was fooling around with Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Now other professors you have to assure that higher appreciation. Any scholar will appreciate. Apart from religious point of view, from scholarly point of view, they like it.

Dr. Sukla: I think you should maybe some day in the future also put out a grammar, Sanskrit grammar, whether yourself you write or somebody.

Prabhupāda: Grammar?

Dr. Sukla: Grammar of Sanskrit language published by the Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: We have got grammar, Jīva Gosvāmī, Harināmāmṛta-vyakāraṇa.

Dr. Sukla: Is it in English, available in translation?

Prabhupāda: No, not here.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you should maintain slaughterhouse. Very good reasoning. Because Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse? Is that good reasoning?

Dr. Sharma: Meat-eating is not useful from three points of view.

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from that. He said that Christ ate fish, therefore we should maintain big, big slaughterhouse. What do you think? Is that good reasoning?

Devotee (2): No, it's demoniac by common sense if you maintain large slaughterhouses, it's completely irreligious.

Prabhupāda: When Christ said "Thou shalt not kill," does it mean that he wanted to maintain slaughterhouse? What is the answer, hm?

Devotee (1): No.

Vṛṣākapi: The Christians say that you kill the vegetables, you slaughter the vegetables.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we shall kill father, mother. You kill vegetables, therefore I shall kill my father and mother. Is that reasoning?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (3): They'll ask what should be killed and what shouldn't be killed for eating? Where do we draw the line?

Prabhupāda: No, you, we are speaking go-rakṣya. That is not point of view of killing. There are other animals. We do not say that you stop. If you want to eat some meat, at least don't kill cow. You can kill other insignificant animals which has no importance. Cow has got special importance because it supplies milk, and milk is very essential food that is... From the childhood, a child lives on milk, and there are many saintly persons, they also live by drinking milk. Milk is very important item in the human society, and it supplies all vitamins. Even if you say that "Meat-eating is essential for me," you can eat other animals, but don't kill cows. That is our proposal. Give protection to the cows. Kṛṣṇa mentioned specifically, go-rakṣya. He does not say that you don't kill, but you give protection to the cows. And if you want to eat meat, you can kill other animals. On the whole, paśu-hiṁsā, any animal killing, is not good for spiritual life. And so far vegetable is concerned, everyone has to eat something. So if you can eat vegetables, that does not mean because somebody is killing vegetables, he should kill his own father and mother on that plea. So cow is mother because we are drinking her milk. So you cannot put any argument in favor of killing mother. If you... Anyone who supplies milk from the body, she is mother. According to Vedic civilization, cow is one of the seven mothers. There are seven mothers: the real mother, ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī, the wife of spiritual master; then queen, rāja-patnikā. Ātma-mātā guroḥ patnī brāhmaṇī, the wife of a brāhmaṇa. In this way, especially, seven mothers, dhenu, dhenu means cow, and dhātrī, nurse, she is also mother. So from that point of view, cow is mother, and you cannot kill on any ground the mother. That is not good reasoning. You are taking the last drop of milk. In South Africa you said?

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact. If you work as a brāhmaṇa, if you are thinking yourself as a brāhmaṇa, then you act as brāhmaṇa. You cannot act as a śūdra. As a brāhmaṇa you cannot accept anyone's service, then you become śūdra. You deviate from your own position. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they'll never accept anyone's service, only the śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). When you live at the mercy of others, this is called dog's business. Just like a dog lives at the mercy of the master. So it is strictly prohibited for the brāhmaṇas. Even in very difficult position, you can act as a kṣatriya, you can act as a vaiśya, but never accept the position of a dog, a śūdra. This is the injunction. Sve sve karmaṇi, you stick to your own business. If you claim as a brāhmaṇa, then you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you'll become successful. You cannot remain a brāhmaṇa and accept the business of a dog, that is not sve sve karmaṇi. So everything, what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is perfect. People at the present moment, they are living at the mercy of others. That is dog's business. Therefore (in) the śāstra it is said kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is a śūdra. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. That is generally accepted. Because at the present moment education means to get some service. What is the value of that education? If you become dependent on others, then what is the value of this education? Therefore kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Everyone is a śūdra. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement says striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ: (BG 9.32) never mind, even if you are śūdra, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll become perfect. Either you become woman or vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter, or any other pāpa-yoni, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, te 'pi yānti parām (BG 9.32). So this is the most liberal movement, that it doesn't matter what you are, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you become perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He's on the Brahman platform, above all these different modes of material nature. These brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are differences on the material platform. But when you come to the spiritual platform, there is no such difference. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So we are trying to bring everyone to that spiritual platform. Therefore they cannot understand. They vision everything from materialistic point of view. They have no idea of spiritual life, therefore they misunderstand. But if we read thoroughly Bhagavad-gītā, then everything is clear. Sve sve karmaṇi means he must act according to his position. If he claims to become a brāhmaṇa, he must act as brāhmaṇa. Guṇa-karma. If you actually have the brāhmaṇa's qualification, you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, what is the use of claiming that "I am a brāhmaṇa"? That is not accepted.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are going to contact him. So how do we explain these things?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How do we explain from our point of view? The upside down of the rocks.

Prabhupāda: I cannot. First of all, we do not bother for all these things.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are going to bring up these points, and the guru should say something. But we must know somehow how to counteract them. One point is that the...

Prabhupāda: It can be explained, that when there is devastation...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the rock...

Devotee: Turn over.

Prabhupāda: ...roll, it was like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Catastrophism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the whole thing would be filled up with water. So water course is very heavy. So it can turn even big, big rocks, mountains rolling.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.

Interviewer: Could you tell me a little bit about your educational system that you have helped to establish, particularly here in the States.

Rāmeśvara: Gurukula. She's asking if you could tell her about the system of education you have established in America.

Prabhupāda: That you can see, what education I have given to my disciples. The first education is that they must be free from all sinful activities. That is the first education. According to the Vedic instruction, a man is supposed to be educated, even from material point of view, a man is supposed to be educated when he sees every woman as mother.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: No, I have not.

Prabhupāda: So we have got our temple, that is considered the best temple in Vṛndāvana. You can show the pictures. So thousands and thousands of Americans went to Vṛndāvana for our temple and other temples. But there is another Vivekananda, Ramakrishna āśrama, nobody went there. Not a single. So what preaching they have done, from practical point of view? So many men went to our temple. They had no inquiry even that "We have heard that there is a Ramakrishna Mission Temple here. Where it is?" It is not..., Vṛndāvana is not a very big city. Everyone knows. Nobody, not a single person went there. And they visited other temples. So what kind of preaching, hmm? What do you think?

Interviewer: It seems to me that what you are saying is that you cannot have a religion, you cannot expect a religion to survive or prosper when the culture which is supposed to serve it is its opposite, is its antithesis. And that's why your movement, you are trying to suggest that the only way you can attain mokṣa, or liberation, or whatever, is through a particular kind of culture that you are propagating.

Prabhupāda: It is not..., it is the culture, it is the culture. Because you are suffering under material conditions and you are struggling for existence, that means you are struggling to get liberty. So this is the liberty. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Mām upetya, find out this.

Car Conversation -- July 21, 1976, New York:

Ādi-keśava: Yes, it goes right under... (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...people of New York are appreciating, Prabhupāda, how you came here alone and now you have a big building with many followers. Actually the people are aware, very much aware of how you started this movement in New York.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And were struggling personally. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...life there is struggle. Without struggling there is no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not be, try to avoid struggle.

Prabhupāda: No. Because we have got preaching point of view. Preaching means struggling. If it was simply bhajana, you can sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa like Haridāsa Ṭhākura.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) "There's one credit that I have. I was never a lazy fellow."

Prabhupāda: Yes, throughout my life. (end)

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: This class is very influential today. This cinema artist, performer. Whenever there's a Presidential race...

Prabhupāda: Just like George. What is his value? He's artist, that's all. From educational point of view, from things other view, he does not know anything. But he has got some money on account of his artistic play on it(?), and he's big man, that's all. Somehow or other get money, you become a big man. There is no question of culture or anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. The money will be the criterion—no family, culture, education. These things will not be taken into account. If you have got money, then you are big man. Never mind what you are. Therefore people are after money. Who is going to be brāhmaṇa? If you become a perfect brāhmaṇa, who will care for you? Nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa. "Why we shall become brāhmaṇa? Starve? For starvation?" Nowadays the colleges, they're not interested in art, philosophy, English literature. No, they.... Nobody.... They go for technical, how they will get more money. They do not want. Some of the doctor, professor, they came to request us to give our student. They are not getting student. And after few years they'll be all dismissed. Who will pay them? Hayagriva told me. He's not getting any job. There is another, Mr., Dr. Henderson. He's also not getting any job. He's selling insurance. And Bon Mahārāja, his institute is suffering from the very beginning till now, simply begging, begging and paying, paying the professor. No student. First of all he started Vaiṣṇava philosophy, so doctorate, Ph.D. So especially in India, who is going to take Ph.D. in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and starve? So this is failure. It is already failure, but he is persistent.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Still, due to the British presence, isn't that the main reason why India has become so degraded now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from...

Hari-śauri: Because they introduced so many bad things?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from cultural point of view, they are degraded. And that was that British policy, to kill them culturally. Otherwise not possible to rule over them.

Hari-śauri: They always advertised that India was so backward because that was a justification for their being there, that "We shall go and educate."

Prabhupāda: They used to advertise like that.

Hari-śauri: Then they could exploit and avoid criticism.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so many bad things Britishers introduced. Bad things means Western type of civilization.

Hari-śauri: Sometimes people, they say, we're always glorifying Indian culture, so why are they so badly off? So we tell them it's because they've give up the culture that they're badly off. Otherwise, a hundred years ago there was no problem. (end)

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhūgarbha: He agrees. He's saying that he wishes-he's not criticizing in any way—but he wants that your books have a better audience, then more people will accept them. And he feels that if the French, the way that the French has been written, is changed, we'll have a better audience, it will reach higher.

Prabhupāda: But that is from scholarship point of view. But our point is this Bhāgavata must be presented by bhāgavata. And there is no much scholarship required. Just like Bhāgavata begins with the words janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This Sanskrit word means the Absolute Truth is that from where everything emanates. Now that Absolute Truth further explained: anvayād itarataś ca abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. That Absolute Truth is aware of everything, directly and indirectly, of all this creation. In this way, if you step-by-step study, it is not very difficult so far the word meanings are concerned, but it is a question of realization. Unless one is realized, he cannot explain properly. That is the secret. Therefore we have given the life of Caitanya Mahāprabhu in our Bhāgavatam because He's living Bhāgavatam.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique thanks you very much for receiving him, and he says that he is...

Prabhupāda: Many thanks for his coming.

Yogeśvara: ...he is very happy to see you, and he does not have any questions. He appreciates very much the Vaiṣṇava point of view.

Prabhupāda: Take this to the daughter.

Yogeśvara: And he thinks that seeing the decline of religion in the West he says it is very important that we are pushing on this mission as we are doing.

Bhūgarbha: He doesn't think he'll be able to follow the life of the Vaiṣṇavas, because our life is too difficult.

Prabhupāda: That attitude will help him. That humbleness, that "I cannot follow," that will help.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, from qualification point of view, they are not learned, educated in university, nor they have got any spiritual assets, born brāhmaṇa family, nothing. Simply money. We also go and flatter them to get some money (laughs). So this is Kali-yuga. Vittam eva. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore people are after, so much after money. Vittam eva, hmm? Read that?

Pradyumna:

vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ

janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ

dharma-nyāya-vyavasthāyāṁ

kāraṇaṁ balam eva hi

Prabhupāda: Dharma-nyāya. In India we have seen that you bribe the brāhmaṇas and they'll give decision in your favor. And it is experienced by everyone. In the law court you bribe even the high-court judge, he'll give judgement in your... That is proven. One big judge... Not now, at least fifty years ago or more than that. His business was to take bribe, high-court judge, very learned judge. He was asked. He'll give judgement if you give him ten thousand rupees. So other brother high-court judges, they knew it, so in one case he was just arranging for this and the chief justice called him, that "You immediately resign and go home, otherwise this arrangement you have made, it will be exposed." So he had no other alternative, he immediately resigned, and on some plea like, "My heart is palpitating," so in this way he left the court and then he was never allowed again. And when his friends asked him that why you are doing this? He said, "What can I do? I have got at least ten thousand rupees expenditure per month and I get only four thousand." That was his... He was very able lawyer. By private practice he was earning more, but this practice... And nowadays it has come to, at least in India, anywhere you go, and bribe and you get a favorable decision. (guests arrive) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: And it is like poison. From poison we suffer and die.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is... Die means spiritual death. No spiritual idea. Otherwise, we have no death, nitya. But spiritual death is there. So your friends are satisfied or not?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda. They said they were. I have noticed that people who are materially contaminated, when they hear spiritual preaching, they can always look at it from material point of view. For example, when you speak of designation, one boy was asking how come we are also having shaved heads and dressing like devotees. In other words, the emphasis on their minds is more on what is everybody else thinking, while the emphasis in your teaching is how you yourself can become free, not what everybody else is thinking. While our shaving of our head and dressing as devotee is a means to become free from all designation, he may be seeing other designations.

Prabhupāda: No, it does not depend on shaving head. But this is in the process.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?

Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.

Prabhupāda: Pleasure... So that is child. The child also feels pleasure with something. But it is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of view. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day. But the father does not allow him. If you leave, let the child seeks his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian, let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. There is no need of training, schooling, colleges. There is no need. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced, by force she used to... My father was lenient and my mother kept a special man, yamadhara(?), that, "Your duty is to take him by force to the school." Yes. My father, my mother would complain that "Your boy did not go to school." "Oh, he did not go to school?" And I was sure he was very affectionate. "Why?" "No, I shall go tomorrow." Then father, "All right, he will go tomorrow, that's all right." But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical. My mother forced me. So I thought, "It is pleasure. Why shall I go to school? Let me play whole day." But it is the duty of the guardian to see that this is not pleasure, this is spoiling. A child may think something pleasure, but the guardian should not think that this is pleasure. This is spoiling him. Otherwise why the guardians are required? Why government is needed, why king is needed, why father is needed, why guru is needed? Just to guide. Therefore whatever you think whimsically it is pleasure, the guru, the father, the king, the government, they should guide—"No, it is not pleasure, it is ruining. You should take like this." If the guru and father and the government, they are themselves rascals and fools, how they will guide? And that is the position. General public, they require guidance, but the guides themselves are rascals and fools, cheaters, bluffers. Therefore the condition, social condition... (passerby says something) He said in English?

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: Well, my problem is that I have to have somewhere to live and I have to get something to eat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that Kṛṣṇa's solves. Yes, Kṛṣṇa says annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) produce food grains. You have to work because it is material world. You cannot sit idly. Even if you are a very strong tiger, you don't expect that animals will come and enter your mouth. You have to work for it. This is the world. Na hi suptasya siṁhasya praviśanti mukhe mṛgāḥ. Suppose a lion... He's the king of the forest. And if he says, "It is my order, I'll sleep here and all the animals may come in my mouth." The animals will urine on his face. "Yes, we shall pass urine on your face. We are not going to accept your order." You have to work. Practical, everyone has to work. This is the third nature. Avidyā karma-saṅga. Because here everyone is under ignorance, the punishment is he has to work for his living condition. Work is not very pleasing. It is very troublesome. But he has to. Avidyā karma-saṅga. You have to work. Therefore we see practically that countries who are working very diligently, they are materially prosperous. Europe, America, they work very diligently, hard, and they have got material prosperity. And the Eastern countries, they are not working, intelligent. From material point of view. From spiritual point of view that is another thing.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (3): But is it not possible that we (indistinct) name of society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then they will be attracted more and more and they will...

Prabhupāda: When you want to attract people you have to show that you (indistinct).

Guest (4): There are good persons who...

Prabhupāda: That good person is very, very rare. I... (break) ...education point of view.

Guest: Yes sir.

Prabhupāda: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacārī. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, and ultimately sannyāsa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So they were not crying very loudly, but the grandfather inquired, "So why there is, it appears there is some great suffering?" So my father's eldest brother, he inquired, "Is your mother dead?" I consider like that, no, no. "So I am also dead." He died later on. Next day. He simply inquired, "I think your mother is dead." They said, "No, no." "No, I am also going to," and he died.

Indian Doctor: These things are not very wonderful.

Prabhupāda: From spiritual point of view this has no meaning. This is worldly affection. It is worldly affection. That is not very good asset for spiritual life. Āsakti. One has to give up āsakti. That is the process, renouncement. Voluntarily.

Indian Doctor: Anāsakta-manaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Anāsaktya. Yes. Our Vedic process is that at a certain age you must retire from family life. Voluntary, forceful, giving up association.

Indian Doctor: Even there is worship (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes. So these are āsaktis. This husband and wife dying together, it is admitted(?) because āsakti is there. That āsakti will help him, that the wife will become a husband next life, and the husband will become wife next. And in that way they'll have to take birth again.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Emergency means there is something unnormal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is normal there is no question of emergency. That is the proof. Another thing, personally, from the Vedic point of view, I don't think India is ready to take actually democracy. Mass of people, they do not care for politics. You have better experience. There, in other countries, even a small man, he has got political sense.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is... What is called avatāra? He has no, nothing on the śāstra basically. And anyone who has no śāstra basics, he's useless. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). He can cheat so many fools and rascals, it has no meaning. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about this kind of guru. They have been condemned in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think you'll find out at the end of the Twenty-fourth Chapter, Eighth Canto. They have been condemned. (break) Now what is the benefit? From rational point of view, suppose he can manufacture gold. That is his jugglery. Eh? He can manufacture some gold? So far I have heard. I've not seen.

Indian man: I don't know. He does some kind of trick.

Prabhupāda: Suppose he manufactures a little gold. So far I have heard.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not gold. He does other magic. Gold also, but other magic.

Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases and they get cured.

Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: He was detected though because he wouldn't eat meat. (chuckles)

Prabhupāda: No. He tried his best, his father. Then his father (accepted), "This child is lost."

Haṁsadūta: This term brainwash, it comes from the Korean war and the Vietnamese war. They would, if they would capture a prisoner especially if he was an officer, high ranking officer, they had some methods of what they say brainwash to turn his mind so that he would accept the enemy view point. And as this happened to a person it was considered to be very, very...

Hari-śauri: Great victory for the enemy.

Haṁsadūta: Great victory for the enemy. Just like because a high ranking officer in the army was captured by the enemy, then they would brainwash him. They had this, some process...

Prabhupāda: In Pakistani they kill all brain, in Bangladesh. Anyone who worked in high profession like businessman, they caught shut down. It was worse to kill.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Maharastrians are very neat and clean. Upper class, they are very. (break) ...karmī.

Mr. Malhotra: Good man.

Prabhupāda: Good man from worldly point of view, but from spiritual point of view, in the lowest stage. Karmī is the lowest stage. Then jñānī, then yogi, then bhakta.

Mr. Malhotra: More a politician.

Prabhupāda: Yes, karmī means this how to enjoy this world. Whole life they have struggled how to enjoy this, how to enjoy myself, how to allow my men to enjoy. This is karmī platform. Everyone is doing that. Everyone is working hard for himself, for his family, and expand the family, for society, and expand the society, for the nation. Here is karmī plan. Gandhi, Birla they are all... There is no question of spiritual life.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Mr. Tombe: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India, if the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the Supreme Leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: Today we just got a new package from New York from this boy. And some of the parents were charging that we were kidnapping and mentally imprisoning their children by making them devotees. Because from their point of view their children were lost to our movement. So...

Prabhupāda: He's a lost child. His father and mother came to me and mother was crying. I said, "So take your son." And the son will not go. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: You are washing away their brains.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) So they are charging like that. What is the new charge? Huh?

Śrutaśrava: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are saying "mind control."

Prabhupāda: (laughing) "Mind control." Yes.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So God is unlimited and you are limited. So how you can think of God?

Guest (4): You see I'll just quote one of his stanzas which reveal...

Prabhupāda: I am talking...

Guest (4): I understand your point of view, but I'm just, to your holiness, in the last stanza of his advaita philosophy, he says, ahaṁ nirvikalpo nirākāra rūpa vibhur apya sarvatra sarvendriyāṇi sadame sama...(?)

Prabhupāda: Who says "aham"?

Guest (4): Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: That means a person is thinking of God. So that is my point, whether an individual person can think of God and ascertain that "Here is God."

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That all right. Nice. But sometimes, if somebody differs, that is not very palatable .

Guest (5): No, no, Swamiji. There is no... We welcome you there. I told Mangala when she came that we are not preaching a particular thing. We are going there to serve the people who come who are intellectual.

Prabhupāda: For spiritual enlightenment. That's nice.

Guest (5): Yes. And practically since many, many years our camp is considered as one of the best from all point of view. Hygienic arrangements, food quality. We don't use dalda or anything. We have the pure ghee. There are people who give with heart.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if you give us one camp, so how many men we can provide there?

Guest (5): At least 50 to 100 people we can accommodate.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest (5): Or if you want more...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Our men will not be fifty to so much. Suppose for us, if you spare one camp, so how many men we can accommodate there.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

D. D. Desai: So your impression is that ten minutes or whatever time is not adequate, and unless she prepares her ground for stable, continuous...

Prabhupāda: No, she can... Paripraśna. From scientific point of view, from logic, that is accepted. But if he (she) thinks blindly something, then it is not possible.

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti tad jñānam

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: To teach. "I've come to give."

Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean...

Prabhupāda: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato... So our, this contribution of India's culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you'll be finished. But here-svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization.

Trivikrama: Now they're changing.

Dr. Patel: In Manipur where Arjuna made...

Prabhupāda: Babhruvāhana. And Babhruvāhana was the king's daughter's son, so he remained as the adopted son of the king. Putrikā-suta. He had no son so he took the daughter's son. So this is India's... The kṣatriyas, they're not (indistinct), and some śūdras are ruling.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is cure. This is cure. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. God is giving food to the cats and dogs. Nobody is starving. If you are starving, that is your blessing.

Guest (3): But then, Guruji, suppose you see somebody...

Prabhupāda: We do not suppose. We get the reference to the śāstra. That is our disease. We don't manufacture. We don't manufacture anything. Our point of view is if there is starvation, then we take it: mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Tat te nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When we are put into starvation, we take it: blessings of God. We don't complain, that "I did something wrong or there is something wrong, so God has put me into this position. It is His blessing." This is our view.

Guest (2): Guruji, my father mentioned about this very beautiful picture just above your head. He was saying it is one of best pictures he has seen of Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna. And you indicated that there may be a card or something.

Girirāja: Yes, I have that.

Guest (2): Oh. Very good.

Guest (1): You want big picture? I can give you one.

Prabhupāda: No, you have got cards printed?

Guest (1): I have got lot of the big ones. I think big ones you don't have.

Girirāja: He's asking for a card.

Guest (2): I have been asked that he wants to keep it on paper.

Prabhupāda: I have given that picture in my Bhagavad-gītā in so many languages.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: It's a fact. The young men think like that.

Prabhupāda: They make pregnant and they go away. And this poor girl, either she has to kill the child or beg from the government, "Give me welfare; otherwise..." Is that freedom? These rascal woman...

Dr. Patel: This is freedom. Actually the government recognized...

Prabhupāda: Government means a set of rascals. But practical point of view the woman wants equal right. Equal rights they enjoy, and the woman becomes pregnant, and he goes away, the boy. And she has to kill the child or beg from the government. This is her freedom. And still, equal rights. Where equal right? The boy has gone away. You also go away? No. You'll have to carry the child. To get freedom you have to kill or you have to beg. And still she thinks, "I am free."

Dr. Patel: Such experience (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Rather we are giving freedom, that "Never mind you have got illegitimate son. Come here. Live with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: This is inside one of the exhibits. This is part of the wall and this is a scene of the phalanxes at Kurukṣetra, and then behind them and above, there is this painting, and it is like a curve. In the middle will be Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs) Very nice. People will so much appreciate it. Yes. They've never seen. From artistic point of view, it should be rewarded by government. And they are prosecuting us. This... What injustice... So many young men, they're exhibiting their talents in this art, and they are trying to harass us. What is this government? Put this matter before this government, that "Just see, your lordships, we are presenting culture, religion, knowledge, philosophy, art, and they are trying to condemn us. Do you think it is all right?" Simply ask. "It was never known in this country. And it is worthy. We are the first-class nation in the world, and we are still giving something more of our talent. Instead of encouraging government help, we have to suffer this harassment. Do you think it is justice?" Just put before him.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: Even in the Bible...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from Bible, I am speaking from practical point of view. What is milk? Milk is blood. If the mother is unhealthy, anemic, you cannot keep. It dries away.(?) Milk is transformed from the blood. That's a fact. Now our cows in New Vrindaban, they are supplying more milk than in other farms. So you do not know how to utilize blood. You are so uncivilized. And you are claiming to be civilized. You are untouchable. You do not know what is the... Yes, in our New Vrindaban the men from other farms, they come. They are surprised. "Milk can give, this much?"(?) You know that? They are uncivilized, cutthroat. And therefore they are now eating better. You are not civilized. Don't talk of anything. First of all be civilized. Give up sin, sinful activities. Then come to understand what is God.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I am not for home. I am for the whole world. It is not... I have no such idea (laughs) that "I shall exploit American men and money for India." That is not my ambition. For the benefit of the whole world.

Gurudāsa: You are doing "Back to Home" bill.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya. But actually I am exploiting American men and money, from this point of view. But what can I do? I do not make any national distinction, either American or Indian.

Gurudāsa: You are not exploiting...

Rāmeśvara: Spiritual Communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: They were exploiting; you are uplifting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is train?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: What they have done, these...? They were getting, minimum, fifty thousand rupees daily.

Hari-śauri: Oh, at least.

Prabhupāda: So what, these nonsense politicians? They lost the money and inconvenience to others. These rascal politicians, they can do anything whimsical. They were getting money, not less than fifty thousand, not smaller than daily fifty thousand. From business point of view they could have raised the toll. They could get more money. What is the use of stopping?

Hari-śauri: Well, they raised the price of oil instead.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: They raised the price of oil instead.

Prabhupāda: Muhammadan, they... Brain fag. And they are thieves. The captains said that they are all thieves, these Egyptians.

Hari-śauri: Arabs.

Prabhupāda: Arabs. Vast desert we saw, passing. Huge stack of sand. How they are living there?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That is also right.

Gargamuni: So they have to accept the books as the authority.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is authorized. Bhagavad-gītā is authorized. You can...

Hari-śauri: It's recognized everywhere.

Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. You say that "You are fortunate that you're having, but do your business." That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: They want to feel satisfaction from Kṛṣṇa consciousness point of view.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Sometimes it may be fact. There is no wonder. But we have to proceed with the figure. If I dream that I am getting one lakh of rupees, so it is better if I get five rupees in figure. Is that all right?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Simply dreaming I am getting one lakh of rupees, that is good, or actually, if you get five rupees, that is good? Which is good?

Pṛthu-putra: To get the actual five rupees.

Prabhupāda: So don't depend on the subtle thing. See practically what you are getting.

Satsvarūpa: What I thought was most dangerous is...

Prabhupāda: Most dangerous... Those who are neophyte, they will be always in danger.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: One boy in Paris, he had a visit...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, this is the position. Those who are neophyte, they are always in danger. Therefore their duty is to be guided by sādhu-śāstra-guru. That's all. That is our... Now, I'll say from my practical life... It is not pride. Actually everyone knows that my Guru Mahārāja had thousands of disciples. So out of thousands of disciples, practically I am little successful. That everyone knows. Why? Because I firmly believed in the words of my guru. That's all. This is the... There may be many other Godbrother, maybe very learned and very advanced, whatever it may be, favored, and... Everyone claims that "I am the most favorite." And practical point of view... So I think sometimes that "Why this wonderful thing has happened to me?" So I search out. I search out only that I cent percent believe in the words of my spiritual... That's all, nothing else. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya, āra nā koriho mane āśā **. Don't think of any nonsense. Simply execute what your guru has said. That is success. You are daily singing, guru-mukha-padma-vākya **. You know the meaning?

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: They mostly eat goats, chicken.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, in India, cow flesh is strictly forbidden. But it doesn't mean that they are vegetarian. They eat fish and goat, lamb, sometimes buffalo. But not to touch the cow. From economic point of view, from vitamin point of view, cow should be given... Just like from the milk of cow we can prepare so many nice things. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Satsvarūpa: I spoke with Nanda-kumāra Mahārāja about his maybe staying here, and he likes the idea.

Prabhupāda: So, there will be good community. How the Egyptian people are?

Pṛthu-putra: They're really a nationalistic type of persons.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere.

Pṛthu-putra: But I never noticed like this anywhere else. And they're really attached to family life, even more than in India.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: They have got nice family?

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes. They have nice family, and they have many children. And the man is working, and the woman stay home and prepare food, taking care...

Prabhupāda: That is Indian culture.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Three big scientists' working. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah... Rūpānuga Prabhu is writing an article. This is all about this life and matter mainly. And there will be an article by Rūpānuga Prabhu called the..., from psychology. He said the..., some sort nature of consciousness from psychological point of view.

Prabhupāda: He was a student of psychology?

Pradyumna: Yes. Rūpānuga was...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And...

Prabhupāda: Our Girirāja also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Psychology is very important.

Prabhupāda: Girirāja can also write one article.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: She said, "Your Gurujī is just like Nethaji. He went outside of India and organized army of Vaiṣṇavas."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now it is in the right hand. Resourceful, you Americans. You can do this. There is scientist. So we have got the framework very nice. Now you can push on. It is a good movement for the benefit of the whole world. Kṛṣṇa will help you. Kṛṣṇa will recognize you. Go on pushing rightly. Our only mission is para-upakāra—we don't want to exploit anyone—Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The people in general, human being, they have got this opportunity of being out of the clutches of māyā and they are kept in darkness. What is this? Is that civilization? This is our mission. Here is opportunity for his getting out of the clutches of māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and they are being misled, the so-called science and nasty philosophy and economics and making them, training them as demons and rākṣasas. What is this civilization? So our movement is against this demonic civilization. It is really para-upakāra.

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra

janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

And this is India's mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. So... And Kṛṣṇa also confirms, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati, na ca tasmād... (Bg 18.68). You'll be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Simply go on sincerely working for this movement. Nobody can defeat you. Take all strategic point, fighting with māyā, and become victorious. From any point of view, come on. We shall fight with māyā. It is a great declaration of fight with māyā. Not with māyā. Our fight is with the demons. Māyā is servant, maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. She can withdraw by the order. But she cannot withdraw because people are demons. So this European opposition, American opposition is that the demons are now feeling the pressure. That is recognition that "Now it is a fight. We have to defend."

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: "...Aurobindo and Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have compromised with the Western idea, but here is the real tradition of India." Actually that's a fact. All of them, they have tried to make a hodgepodge. And from the beginning my idea was I shall present as it is. That's all. Therefore I gave this name, "As It Is." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Why shall I manufacture idea? Present this as it is. All right. Let us do our duty. (devotees offer obeisances) (break) So at any cost, I am still dictating. I'll go on dictating so long I live. That's all. But this is very nice program, our farm program. practical. So if possible, Paramānanda may come and teach them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is the most successful farm at least in our society from the production point of view.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I saw personally. He is working very hard, and everyone is happy. You were there?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice. I always remember. Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: It's Canto Five, Chapter Five, verse number seven. "Even though one may be very learned and wise, he is mad if he does not understand that the endeavor for sense gratification is a useless waste of time. Being forgetful of his own interest, he tries to be happy in the material world, centering his interests around his home, which is based on sexual intercourse and which brings him all kinds of material miseries. In this way one is no better than a foolish animal."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Maithunyam agāram ajñaḥ. The selection of words in Bhāgavata are, from even literary point of view, perfect. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām (SB 10.14.58). Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na... This is literary. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam. Again plavaṁ plavam. Anuprāsa. This is literary, anuprāsa. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ. Padam. Bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. Just see literary arrangement. And full of meaning. This is Bhāgavatam. Any way you study, from literary point of view, from knowledge, from philosophy, from social, every-perfect. Therefore lokasya ajānato vidvāṁś cakre. Vidvān. One who has learned, Vyāsadeva, vidvān, the first-class learned person. The sātvata-saṁhitām—for the devotees, Vedic cream. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalaṁ idam (SB 1.1.3). Nobody can be like Vyāsadeva; He's incarnation of Nārāyaṇa. Where is such scholar throughout the whole world? Is there?

Hari-śauri: That man from Delhi said that he thought you were an incarnation of Vyāsadeva.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Balavanta told them. He said, "You have your ideas, and we have ours. We're not stopping you from having yours, so why do you stop us from having ours? As far as we're concerned, we have as much evidence as you. Your authorities say you went, and our authorities say you didn't go. And anybody can make a movie to show that you went to Jupiter or Saturn or any other planet. Movies..., they can make King Kong. So we don't accept it, but we don't stop you from having your beliefs. But don't force us to say, 'Yes, you went to the moon.' " He answered nicely.

Prabhupāda: No, actually when there is some news about the moon planet, I personally did not go with him. So how shall I believe him? Come to practical point of view. I did not go. You publish something, news. Why I accept it? If you say that "I did not go," er, "I did not see," that is everything. We believe some paper, that's all. So why shall we not believe the Vedic literature?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at the difference of the writers. The writer of the newspaper is a fool.

Prabhupāda: Vedic literature is so authoritative. It has been accepted by the ācāryas.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And who is father according to that definition? This is our formula.

Ādi-keśava: They argue sometimes. They say, "You are saying that you guru..."

Prabhupāda: You are argue your point, but our argument is here. You are arguing from your point of view, and we shall argue from our point of view. Unless the father releases the son from the cycle of birth and death, he's not father. This is our formula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In order to accept this, they will have to rewrite the laws.

Prabhupāda: This is the actual... Now, apart from the scriptural injunction, if one comes to the argument, then such kind of father is there in the animal society also. Cats and dogs, they also beget children, but they cannot relieve the child from the cycle of birth and death. And Bhagavad-gītā says, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). First of all you have to see what is the actual distress in this material life. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So in this life you are my father, and next time I become a cat or dog, so who cares for this father? I get another father. So who knows this law? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā (BG 3.27). The laws of nature is going on, and everything is happening. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). We are getting a type of body according to karma.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Bali-mardana: From outside it looks very good. From the inside, it needs a lot of work. That is...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali-mardana: It is... And the..., three minutes from the center of the city, and right across the street... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...earning and cow protection. You must do it. The other day I was explaining that not from economic point of view, even the cows do not supply milk, still, they should be protected.

Bali-mardana: Hm. Just to protect them.

Prabhupāda: Because that stool and urine is also useful. Cow is so important. They'll eat and they'll pass stool and urine. That is also important. If they supply milk, it is well, very good. Otherwise the stool and urine is also important. From that point of view we should give protection. So they are doing this cow slaughter business. (aside:) For you. Therefore they are suffering so much. So Kṛṣṇa has given you very nice occupation, translation work, and you are earning your livelihood independently. So do it very nicely. And if there is strain to work, then don't work. We shall pay you for the rent, etc... It doesn't matter. But you must maintain your status of translating work. That is very good. If you can work, you can work. Otherwise don't worry.

Evening Darsana -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is him, this boy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Very good. The more you distribute books, the more you are blessed. There is no more or less. Everyone is blessed... (laughter) There is no such discrimination, but still, there is some competition. (laughter) In Vṛndāvana there is no discrimination that gopīs are the highest and others... No. Every one is all right. Still, from neutral point of view, the gopīs are the highest. Caitanya Mahāprabhu..., ramya kaścid upāsanā vraja-vadhu vargabhir ya kalpita,(?) that "There is no standard of worship, what was conceived by the gopīs." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said. There is no distinction between the cowherd boys and the gopīs or the trees and the flowers and the calves and cows. It is the absolute platform. But still, in the spiritual world also there is distinction between living entities. That is variety, spiritual variety, viśeṣavāda.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Deprogramming. The Indian government are taking seriously, yes, that is private arrangement—that "Why they are opposing this movement? We allow Christian to come here. Why not Kṛṣṇa?" The Consulate General, ambassador, has taken.

Harikeśa: It is very important.

Prabhupāda: They are taking it from national point of view. That is... Anyway, there is some defense from government side, their representative attending every court case. Yes?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Every hearing.

Prabhupāda: Ādi-keśava told me.

Harikeśa: In Germany the court case is fixed in November now. They have made a date.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime you overflood with books.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read these verses now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

bhāraḥ paraṁ paṭṭa-kirīṭa-juṣṭam

apy uttamāṅgaṁ na namen mukundam

śāvau karau no kurute saparyāṁ

harer lasat-kāñcana-kaṅkaṇau vā

"The upper portion of the body, though crowned with a silk turban, if not bowed down before the Personality of Godhead who can award mukti, or freedom, is a heavy burden only. And the hands, though decorated with glittering bangles, if not engaged in the service of the Personality of Godhead, Hari, are like those of a dead man." Purport: "As stated hereinbefore, there are three kinds of devotees of the Lord. The first-class devotee does not at all see anyone who is not in the service of the Lord, but the second-class devotee makes distinction between devotees and nondevotees. The second-class devotees are therefore meant for preaching work, and..." (break) Sometimes the scholars criticize you that you are giving us all the Kṛṣṇa viewpoint instead of being impartial.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is supreme. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). Bhāgavata begins, namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Vāsudeva is Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Indira Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal importance they have...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Kali-yuga... (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...to go to the universities all over and present Kṛṣṇa consciousness as a science. Write articles, using medical science to prove that Kṛṣṇa is the origin. (indistinct)

Dr. Sharma: And there is a lot of scientific data in our ancient scriptures which I told them that if they go through from their point of view they will find lot of things in Purāṇas, in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in many Vedic...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from Purāṇas and Vedic literatures, scientifically it is the modern science, according to their way, we can convince. Purāṇas you may not believe the authority. I may not believe. But scientific truth has to be accepted.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Somebody. What is that somebody? Is he a scientist? Is he a philosopher? Is he advanced? Any loafer class man say anything.

Mr. Koshi: There are scholars from other religions also.

Prabhupāda: Then you do not understand the standpoint. We have to understand the active principle of life. So why other scholars will disagree? Then he is not a scholar. Let us come to the scientific point of view. We have to understand what is the active principle within this machine. It is equally important to all scholars. That we have to preach. They may say that "Your Kṛṣṇa; our this." No. That knowledge Kṛṣṇa is giving for everyone. And it is accepted by everyone. They are Christians. How they are accepting? I am not bribing them.

Mr. Koshi: They are all nationalities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Any scientific man, any advanced in education...

Mr. Koshi: Have you put any conditions?

Prabhupāda: No conditions. You try to understand. Within this body the active principle is there. Where is condition? You try to understand if you have knowledge.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Brāhmaṇa, gosāis, so-called gurus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When has this all begun, this fish-eating in Bengal? This was always going on?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Fish, ninety-nine percent people take fish in Bengal. Only few, they do not. When there is some, what is called, ceremony, fish must be there. (break) And fish is available. Now Bengal is divided. Otherwise, immense fish in Bengal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the east side of Bengal. And rice was coming from there too.

Prabhupāda: So their staple food is rice and fish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: East Bengal is very wealthy from that point of view. Rice.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan was rich only on account of East Bengal. The pān. Practically it supplies pān to all over India. And betel nut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a place that we have not...

Prabhupāda: And milk also produced in very large quantity. East Bengal is rich in vegetables, milk, fish. (end)

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Even the Māyāvādīs, they are also praising these activities. Yesterday two Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, came, Śaṅkara-sampradāya.

Patita-pāvana: This Arkasomaya...

Prabhupāda: They are taking from this point of view, that India's culture has been so nicely spread that people are taking serious con... That is their appreciation. We have got differences of opinion, philosophy. That is our... But India's culture is being accepted through the world. That they are appreciating.

Girirāja: During the New York case, one of the leading men in the Arya Samaj wrote a very personal letter in support of us, not a standard letter, but in his own words he was glorifying your work like anything, and especially from this point of view.

Patita-pāvana: Even this Arkasomayaji, his iṣṭa-devatā is Kanaka Durgā from the Kabur district of the Godāvarī in Andhra, and he's a Māyāvādī. I told him, "We have some difference, but please shelve your differences and simply follow our point of view." He said, "That's all right, but I think your guru is the Divine walking the earth, and I must serve him." (laughs) So I said, "Very good. Please come and help."

Prabhupāda: So arrange to receive them. Give them very kindly... If Acarya agrees, that will be great success.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, correct. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise nobody's poor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Americans are very rich from...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...material point of view.

Prabhupāda: Poor means poor in knowledge. Otherwise even a small ants, it is not poor. It is eating. You are not giving food. In this room you'll find some hole. Hundreds and thousands of ants will come out. Are you giving him food? And you go to the jungle. Thousands of elephants are there. Are you giving them food? Why you are concerned about the poor? Who is poor? Poor means who has no knowledge. He is rascal. He is poor. Poor means poor in knowledge. Otherwise nobody is poor. Everyone is getting his food according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). These are wrong theories. Wrong means because they are rascals, they are putting something rascal, idea. Mūḍhaḥ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam, avyayam. Nityo nityānāṁ ceta... This is Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). (Hindi) We want to stop all this nonsense. That is our mission. Our Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission is that "You become guru," as I was telling, "and teach, deliver persons where you are." If you say, "How can I become guru?" there is no difficulty. Simply repeat the words of Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. You become guru. So our mission is to create real guru, not these jugglers. And real guru is he who speaks on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. And that is wan... It is very simple. Do you accept or not? Boliye.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very kind of you. So...

Indian Astronomer: As Patita-pāvana dāsa told me... I informed him, I am a student of religion and also working for religion. Single-hand, I made attempt to propagate Vedic concept and Vedic religion for the past forty years. I am not able to find out any help. But fortunately, when I informed about Your Holiness and saw in newspapers also, I have found you are the incarnation of Indian gods, (Prabhupāda chuckles) from my point of view, because the mission which is not fulfilled by other ācāryas, even Swami Vivekananda, so many. I know... I studied all variety of prophets. But it is only fulfilled by Your Holiness.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian Astronomer: Because we must place our Vedas before the people on the way of science without sacrificing tradition. It is also applicable to our minds. So all things are accumulated in Your Holiness, thoughts and...

Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?

Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes. Oh, yes, yes, thoroughly.

Prabhupāda: So...

Indian Astronomer: Great estimation, all your books. Even Christ is not able to do some things. But all our ācāryas incarnated in your body and your thinking. I know guru-ācārya... I made a contact with your ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha. I have made contact with him in Madras. Twice I met him.

Prabhupāda: He is now dead.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Everything requires training.

Indian woman (5): But if you are compassionate, you feel the pain. Then how does that go with even-mindedness?

Prabhupāda: Compassion... That is little advanced. That's all. But that is not the stage of perfection. That animal has also, compassion. That is not a very big thing.

Indian man (1): You mean from human point of view.

Indian woman (5): No.

Indian man (1): Not to hold in doubt.

Indian woman (5): Can the human heart feel compassion?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian woman (5): The human heart cannot take to compassion?

Prabhupāda: There is compassion. It is revived. That's all. All the good qualities are there, because he's part and parcel of God, but in ignorance they are now covered. You have to discover. Just like Brahman. You are Brahman by nature, but you are thinking, "I am this...," "I am American," "I am Indian." And that is your disease. "I am Hindu." "I am Muslim." "I am gṛhastha." "I am sannyāsī." That is your disease, more or less. But actually you are Brahman because you are part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman. So when you actually realize yourself-brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54)—no problems. All problem finished. So that is required.

Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: Actually when we see it from that point of view, the scientists have given nothing beneficial.

Prabhupāda: Ultimately the our troubles are janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And they do not know, science. They cannot solve.

Śatadhanya: When we say that, they say, "No one can solve them."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śatadhanya: They say, "That is pie-in-the-sky."

Prabhupāda: You say. We don't say. Because you cannot do, you say. We are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness for this purpose. We are not wasting time. And we are wasting time doing so? We are fools? That is the first instruction, that soul is immortal and unchanging. This very instruction they cannot understand. That is first instruction. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This simple... A child changes body. That is beginning. There is no... Same child. For a while it may be. Now he's grown up, young man. It is not change of body? Why these rascals cannot understand? What is that improvement of...? Therefore I have said, "You have no brain." It is a fact. My son, he's now young man. He took birth as a small child. Where is that body? Body has changed. Common thing. But these rascals, so fool, they cannot understand. I have become old man, but if some elderly persons, my guardians, were alive, he knew it, "He has become old man, but he was born a small child." That we have given in pictures, change of body. Change of body is going on. Why these rascals cannot understand? What is their intelligence? Therefore the real problem is the change of body should be stopped. And that is real scientific advancement.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a newsletter issued by the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals. They just had an international meeting in Japan this April, and I am a member, so they send me a newsletter, national newsletter. They have interesting schemes. The next meeting is in 1981 in Israel. I was actually thinking of presenting a paper in the last meeting, but time was little short for us. So we are thinking of presenting papers in that international meeting. It is a whole scientific community all over. So I thought it will be very interesting to present our viewpoint and make it very strong. We are very small in number, but our thoughts will be very challenging to all of them, especially mathematics and physical chemistry together. They also have a journal, the Journal of the Origin of Life, and there the write only about chemicals. Everything is just like a story. So we make it a fairy tale, the molecular fairy tale, and it's very appropriate. All are stories.

Prabhupāda: They invented stories for going to the moon planet.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I don't speak I am authorized. I have studied both ways.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what makes your books so unique, that others might have had some scholarly knowledge, but you have to so much experience and realization packed into those books that it's so appealing, the scholars delight in reading the purports.

Prabhupāda: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say, want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense-Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.

Śatadhanya: You are compassionate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tathā vinoda(?). I have done on reality. I want to establish reality, not imagination. What is the use of giving some imaginative idea, just like this rascal Darwin? Everything rascal. No practical value. And he has written volumes of books, and people are accepting: "From monkey, man has come. That's all." But monkey is there; man is there. Where monkey is extinct? The whole theory is absolutely bogus, and people have accepted it. I never believed that. Anthropo... Anthropomor... No? The...?

Upendra: Anthropomorphism.

Prabhupāda: And... What do you call, this science?

Śatadhanya: Anthropology.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So they gave me a free ticket, and the government allowed me to take with me, forty rupees. In this state, condition, I started for New York. You see? No friend, no secre..., no hotel, nothing, arrangement. This was the beginning. Then I went there. So I do not know how it happened. Now we have got forty crores. It is all Kṛṣṇa's mercy. I never expected that my books will be sold and appreciated all over the world. So that is being done. People are appreciating the whole movement. Even in our country our government, it has come to their notice, cabinet ministers. So my point of view was that in Delhi there is a confectioner's shop. You had been in Delhi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you go to Delhi sometimes?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I will...

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśodā-nandana: Not accepting the authority. The problem is the Pacific Ocean, according to Jambūdvīpa, for us it is the salt ocean. So the first question that Mahārāja was raising, that they will ask, how do we go between the west coast of America, which is very tiny, and Japan, as this according to their calculation we go west and we arrive around. And you keep still going further and you arrive back in America. The point about the Himalayas, that we did not raise, because that we could well understood. The Himalayas is much broader and much bigger than they think. We can fully understand it. But that point, from common-sense point of view we couldn't exactly understand. We thought of it all afternoon, and we came up with a few ideas, but we wanted to hear what Your Divine Grace...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Our question was mostly coming out of how to draw what the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is saying. We're not supporting any kind of mundane argument, nor do we have any doubt in Bhāgavatam. We're simply trying to understand the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: And that is your credit.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's why we were meeting.

Prabhupāda: Where is the difficulty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think that one of the difficulties arose from my seeing this map originally, because in this map it shows the continents that we today speak of as various continents. So when we all looked at this map, our immediate question was, as I said the other day, how do we go from one place to the next? It's not such an unreasonable question. So we're just trying to answer it from the Bhāgavatam—not to give our own speculations, because they're imperfect.

Prabhupāda: That is already answered. You are limited within certain area. So you can conclude in so many ways. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara.(?) There is a vegetable prepared, the following vegetables are taken: sara, bhuri, and kara. And again you say kara bhuri sara. This way or that way. Sara bhuri kara, kara bhuri sara. That three things, either you take this way consecutively or that way consecutively. But you have got only that kara bhuri sara. You have no experience. There is potato, there is (indistinct), there is (indistinct-Sanskrit). You know these three things. Sara bhuri kara. Kara bhuri sara. Just like they are making arrangement in the laboratory. Companies are there. They present in such a way, that he was flying in the sky, and big sputnik and very small town. Do you know that man came?

Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such a good certificate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Satsvarūpa, American-born personal secretary to Swami Bhaktivedanta, presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach." They don't even identify you. They know who you are. You are so well known in these literary circles now that someone says, "Swami Bhaktivedanta." They don't have to say "Founder of ISKCON." They know already from your other books. "...presents the official Hare Kṛṣṇa approach in an articulate and highly serviceable introduction to this immense body of literature. The readings include the Īśopaniṣad, the Bhagavad-gītā and excerpts from Purāṇas, supplemented with a glossary and index. Preliminary essays detail the logic by which his group rejects both the academic experts and the rival approach of advaita-vedānta that Westerners know through the writings of Vivekananda and Radhakrishnan. This is a book long needed to balance out the monist theology that is but one aspect of Indian religious thought." In other words, this is one of the first books to present the Vaiṣṇava viewpoint, not simply the Māyāvādī viewpoint. He says, "It's well needed." That's all he's written.

Prabhupāda: Very appreciated. Very much appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Satsvarūpa writes that this will very much help the... He says it will help its sales in America. Then this article...

Prabhupāda: It is very thoughtful article.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That... This?

Prabhupāda: No. That you were reading.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: And we don't lack any material benefit. We have spiritual and material.

Prabhupāda: Who can live in such house? Royal. Royal palace. We have 102 royal palaces. More than that. So even from economic point of view nobody is happier than us. Nobody is happier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That New York building cost over one million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go I shall give you chance to see how my devotees are living happy in big, big houses. Big, big house. Do you think to possess a twelve-story house in New York is joke?

Vrindavan De: Even I cannot think of.

Prabhupāda: Is joke? We have got. In Detroit we have got a house which was constructed at the cost of six million dollars, fifty years ago. What is the price six million dollars?

Vrindavan De: Sixty lakhs.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Upendra: You once gave that Bengali saying, "When you eat, you eat for yourself, but when you dress, you dress for others."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Apake khana para...(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I'm not so much speaking from the point of view of law. I'm just wondering whether it was... From the point of view of publicity for our society.

Prabhupāda: Publicity, if we find that this dress will attract more, why not? We shall do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Salvation Army Santa Clauses, they became very upset, because their routine is that they stand next to a big chimney, because Santa Claus is supposed to come down a chimney in the myth. So they stand next to the chimney, and they shake their bell. People put money into this chimney. But our Santa Clauses, they go down the street very, you know, moving around, dancing, and they go up to the people all over the place. They don't wait for people to come over to the chimney. So we were taking away a lot of the donations that they would have given to the chimney Santa Clauses. So they were very...

Prabhupāda: That is business, competition. You are doing your business; I am doing my business. That competition is there in every business. When there is business, you cannot dictate me in your favor: "While you are doing this, my business is being hampered." Who will hear you? Hm? If you say it is competition, that "Why you are doing like this? It is hampering my business," I'll say, "Yes, I want that your business may be hampered; my business may prosper." That's it.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact. From the point of view of health, Hawaii is the best place in the world. It's paradise. There's nothing that can compare with it. And you'll get juices there. You can live on the fruit juices.

Prabhupāda: And wherever there are my established Deities, that is Vṛndāvana. Anywhere I have got temple, that is Vṛndāvana. So wherever the health will remain very nice...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There we should go. I'll talk further with them. Find out what the climate is like, everything. Make sure. Wherever we go, we should pretty much be sure it is just nice. Would you like to hear some reading now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm. You can sit down here. As far as possible, while reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta you should not sit down(?) because you are with Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Unless there is some inconvenience. So at least it should be on the same level. It is respect to Caitanya-caritāmṛta book. Sit down. So you can bring milk?

Upendra: Milk.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He can give. Everyone can write very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I mean he's very favorable towards us, so let him tell what we've done in America. We have wonderful temples. He knows this, the ambassador.

Prabhupāda: Phalena paricīyate: "By result." We are spreading Hindu culture throughout the whole world. He has to judge from this point of view, by the result. The persons, the people who are accustomed to kill cows, they are giving up meat-eating. Do you think it is ordinary thing? So he has... He must have good judgment before giving any adverse opinion. Engaged in horrible cow slaughter, they are becoming Vaiṣṇavas. Is it ordinary thing? Nārada did. What is the vyādha?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nārada Muni?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way organize these two places with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. And we should ventilate in the papers that this Indian investment of American money is not American money. It is my money. I have written books, laboring whole night. The American boys have cooperated with me by printing, by distributing, and the money was received by selling the books. So the books are mine. I have given to the society. So I have done business, regular, in foreign countries. I have earned money and spending the same money in my country. It is not American money. It is my money. I have done business. That's all. It is a credit for Indian son so to do such tremendous business and bring money for investing in his own country, from the national point of view... Why the...? The Americans are not claiming that this is their money. They are my disciples; they are cooperating with me. Actually it is a business. I have done business, I have earned money and brought it at home to spend. Everyone does. They should not misunderstand that I have stolen money from America and brought it. It is fair business. That's all. Ventilate this. They are under impression that the American government is supplying, the World Bank is supplying. Nobody is supplying. I am earning money by business, by my hard labor.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who can read Hindi?

Hari-śauri: Who can read Hindi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you read Hindi? (break)

Prabhupāda: From medical point of view, you cannot give life. The life is finished. Where is medical point? Hm? According to duration of life, that is finished. You cannot give a dead body life.

Kīrtanānanda: But your body is not dead, Prabhupāda. Your body is not dead. Your life is very strong.

Prabhupāda: Then again you go to miracle.

Kīrtanānanda: Eh?

Prabhupāda: Then again you go to miracle. As soon as you say, "Your body is not dead."

Trivikrama: Then you go to miracle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Going to miracles.

Prabhupāda: That is not medical point.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So medical point does not mean that you can give life to a dead body.

Kīrtanānanda: That is fact.

Prabhupāda: So my body is now dead according to medical point. You cannot give life. So let it be doomed. It is not possible from medical point of view to give life to a dead body. What is this? It is dead body.

Upendra: Prasādam has come, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you can for the time being, disperse. Let me... Whatever possible, I'll take. Then you come and chant.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...taking poison. The body is already finished.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let me taste the tablet. (break) (Bengali) (break) Go on, kīrtana. (break) What news?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The guests will start coming tomorrow. Mr. Prem Kripal, who is the ex-president of the executive board, UNESCO, he's going to be our chief guest tomorrow. He's going to inaugurate the conference. He'll be arriving about five o'clock this evening. He told me he's coming with one of his friends who's also a retired architect. There's also a very well known architect who's coming with him this evening. He's going to speak on what is life and its purpose about twenty minutes. Then the other scholars will start arriving tomorrow, and Sunday everybody's coming. On Sunday there will be many medical doctors... Khorana is one of our life members, Dr. Khorana from Delhi. He's bringing several of his friends. Also I'm expecting some doctors from Agra. One... I don't recall his name, but he's also our life member. Everybody says that we have chosen the right place to have a conference. There's one Dr. Miśra, he wanted to come tomorrow. Also I actually requested him to become the chief guest, but he cannot come tomorrow, but he's coming on Sunday. And also he's speaking. So there are about five or six people from outside that are speaking on different aspects of the conference regarding life. There's one Dr. Bhud.(?) He's one of the philosophers from Delhi University. He's speaking on..., called philosophical foundations of life. He told me he studied a great deal about Rāmānuja. Also, he said, previously he studied in Bon Mahārāja's institute about ten years ago something about Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And now he's a reader in philosophy department in Delhi. He's going to speak something on the philosophical aspects of life. So we expect some good crowd from the scholars, mostly scientists from physics, from chemistry, mathematics and biology. And I found that most of them are very interested, and almost everybody wanted to come unless they had some engagement before. Everybody was very positive on our approach. In fact they encouraged us a lot, and they told us that's unique-trying to understand the concept of life from religious point of view connected with modern science. And many Bengalis are also coming.

Prabhupāda: Scholar?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Viswas is the head of the physics department, Delhi University. He's very religious, also he's very appreciative. They already know about Śrīla Prabhupāda's activities. So there is one professor called Katak. He's the head of the department of physics at also Indian Institute of Technology in Delhi. He's coming with his father. His father is a chemist, retired. They're also... So like that, many scholars are coming. Also from Jawaharlal University, there's Dr. Mukerjee. He's head of the department of life sciences, coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, would you like to sit up for a while?

Hari-śauri: He was just sitting about ten minutes ago.

Prabhupāda: Where is Kīrtanānanda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtanānanda? Shall we call him?

Prabhupāda: He is busy?

Akṣayānanda: He's not too busy to come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can come.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Why not immediately?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, right in the middle of the conference... They can do it for the evening one. They can probably change it by five-thirty. Another thing is that these men, these scientists of ours, they are just beginning to practice speaking. Just like our sannyāsīs, we get to speak in the temples practically all the time. But these men are new at lecturing. So they require further practice in their presentation to make it very interesting—which they will get automatically by doing what they are doing. Another really important thing, I feel, is that I think it would be much more interesting if someone with an opposing opinion were to speak first, say, some other scientist we could invite who would speak on the same subject but from a different point of view. Then our man would speak from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. Then people could ask questions. Because the audience I think very much appreciates when there's a little bit of, er, a dialogue. Debate.

Mādhava: They have such a speaker in physics. He's going to speak that life comes from matter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. That's good. Because otherwise... I looked at the audience this afternoon. First of all, there weren't that many. There was only about fifteen men attending this afternoon's lecture.

Gurukṛpā: Scientists, fifteen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Fifteen scientists. There were devotees. Our sannyāsīs, GBC men were there. And I looked at them, and some of them weren't that interested, mainly because it's just... It's just too one-sided, I think. There's not enough action going on to keep their attention. I'm going to speak... I haven't spoken to Svarūpa Dāmodara yet. I'm going to right now. I spoke to Rūpānuga, who was in the back, because he's helping to organize. I think it's very good, because gradually, as we hold more conferences, they'll learn to improve their presentation. This is why Svarūpa Dāmodara wanted to begin in India, so that when he finally got to the West he'd be very strong and it would be very good. Here it's a little easier.

Prabhupāda: So not all the doctors who...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa has made him happy in all respect.

Lokanātha: Yes. He was mentioning to me that.

Prabhupāda: From monetary point of view, from family life, position. He is the biggest medical practitioner in Allahabad. Everyone knows. Even in the street, Dr. Ghosh they know. So take care of him very carefully.

Lokanātha: Yes, we'll take care of him. I'll promise. Actually his daughter was very much reluctant that he should not go or should not go immediately. But he did not hear her. He just decided to go. But I had to promise his daughter that I would take care of him. She was saying that he should not also become patient along with Śrīla Prabhupāda, as he is old and like that. We'll give him good room and nice accommodation.

Prabhupāda: Attendant, whatever he wants.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, from everybody's point of view, this Dr. Gopal, factually speaking, seemed more up-to-date and able to diagnose correctly according to allopathic standards than Dr. Ghosh. Dr. Ghosh... After all, this allopathic medicine is still a developing science. So Dr. Ghosh's knowledge of it cannot be as up-to-date as someone who's younger.

Bhavānanda: Dr. Ghosh was insistent, he wanted you to take Lassix. And Dr. Gopal said, "No, no. Lassix is too strong. There is a new dialysis medicine, very, very, very gentle and mild."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Dr. Ghosh never heard of it. I think Dr. Ghosh's value is that he's willing to stay here and attend to you. But I think that Dr. Gopal is better to...

Abhirāma: They both agreed on it was the same disease.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They agree that the disease is the same. They understand what the disease is, and they both agree on that. But as to treatment, Dr. Gopal seems to be more aware of the more modern and up-to-date discoveries that science has made than Dr. Ghosh. Dr. Ghosh is aware, more or less, of things which were available ten or twenty years ago.

Bhavānanda: We can go and see Dr. Gopal this morning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji said Dr. Gopal is his close friend. He can bring him here once a day if necessary.

Bhavānanda: And explain to him that you've had some restless reaction to this medicine and get his opinion and new diagnosis, new medicines, if necessary. And for your liquid intake, if you can take just four glasses of Complan in one day, plus some juice now and then, it won't be so much, so many times you'll have to be bothered. They all recommended that Complan is the very best.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Bhakti-caru: Complan, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a drink, beverage, like Horlicks. I gave it to you last night.

Bhavānanda: Is there some bad effect to it that you feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you take that?

Prabhupāda: Not yet, but when it becomes mucus.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. My...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I like him. He has fine features. He's thoughtful. Nice voice. I mean these kavirājas... The real point is how in this age, how deeply they understand kavirājī medicine, that I can't say. But from general point of view, comparison of doctors, they're the best. They're...

Upendra: More sensitive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're the most devotional and refined people of the doctors. How much they know kavirājī, that I cannot say. But he's not a bogus man.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara? (Bengali)

Bhagatji: If actually comes here in and it is done, there will be systematic treatment according to the physicians (Bengali).

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bona fide or not bona fide.

Bhavānanda: Still, we all saw some positive signs. Of course, it might not have been from the medicine, but it is... You did appear stronger. You went on parikrama, you sat up.

Prabhupāda: No, parikrama I can... But, I mean to say, from medicinal point of view, it is not at all hopeful. All is...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not at all what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Bhavānanda: Hopeful.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Bhavānanda: Also that Persian melon. We've been giving you that Persian melon juice. That is a diuretic. Let us not give that, take one more... See how the night goes. In the morning take another dose of makara-dhvaja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can't see that the makara-dhvaja is bad. I can see that you... I mean I don't see where we can conclude, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that because of the makara-dhvaja now you're passing stool.

Prabhupāda: So what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That I can't see, that conclusion.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this 43,000 can be given, because it is not Society's money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. It's not come in our accounts, so it can be given definitely.

Prabhupāda: So this much you can do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I fully agree. And I have no objection to giving one lakh. But I'm speaking from a legal point of view. It will injure us, and I don't want to be injured.

Vrindavan De: No, I can spare some little amount of interest. I can pay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's more jeopardizing. We can't charge interest. We cannot make profit on money loaned out, as a society. It goes against the laws of India. That's the whole point. Even if we gave it in any way, it's jeopardizing.

Vrindavan De: But you can put it easily on donation account, that charge interest.

Prabhupāda: No, Overseas Bank they can give.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In the morning the symptom was that.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He's saying, from the treatment point of view, it's best if Śrīla Prabhupāda stays here for ten more days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tell him that the only reason we had any reservation about that was because if some side effect develops, then he is not here to help, and we have to take the help of this other person, who we do not trust.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If you stay longer on this planet, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that will make this movement stronger. That is the real reason for living longer. 'Cause you are a pure devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa, you have no personal desire. This is Kṛṣṇa's movement. If you stay longer, then this movement will become stronger and stronger. Simply by your presence the devotees become inspired and they work much better. We can understand that there's nothing to lament if you were to depart, because you're always going to be with Kṛṣṇa. But we would have to lament from our own point of view that we would lose you, at least in the way that we have you now. And the whole world would lament because this movement might not be as strong if you were not present.

Prabhupāda: Then make this arrangement, one week or ten days.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are doing that. We have already agreed to that. Actually I could see from the very beginning that that's what we're going to do, but sometimes I feel it is my duty to give good arguments for some opposite opinion just to see both sides. Ultimately we are prepared to be with you wherever you want to be. To us that is home. That is our great pleasure, to be with you. So we're making that arrangement, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that without finishing this business we shall go?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without finishing the business of these, this legal business? Oh, yes, this legal business is not what would keep us here.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He said the only reason... He said, "However, if you really feel that you want to go," he says, "I guarantee you that there will be no risk." That he promises. If you want to go, there will not be risk. But from a medical point of view he says, "I advise you to get stronger before making the trip, because it will be easier."

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that's our program. We're going to wait here ten days. After seven days, doctor is coming back. Kavirāja is coming back. He'll also by that time have arranged so that when he comes he can stay even up to a week if necessary.

Prabhupāda: And I'll get some strength.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By us. But since they feel that there's not going to be any constant use from our side, they're thinking that it doesn't make sense to have built and spent so much money on such a good hall and not utilize it daily, which from the business point of view is a fact. But that means that you're going to have to invite all kinds of semi... It's not even Kṛṣṇa conscious. I wanted to say semi-Kṛṣṇa conscious, but they're going to have to invite different theater people, entertaining people.

Bhavānanda: So the Kṛṣṇa conscious solution is to utilize the hall every night for our own purposes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is unlimited. There's so many dramas, so many lectures, so many symposiums.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose you construct some house and rent out. Then they can do as they like. So similarly, if that hall is made, constructed for making some money, then the money will not come if we don't rent out to the cinema actors, actresses. It is just like... What is called? Village house. Hm? The hall is called? When one pays, marriage ceremony... For making some money you have made.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. It is... Plus interest of the money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Plus interest of the... Of which money?

Prabhupāda: The deposit money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fixed deposit money. Well, of course, but that we would have gotten anywhere. But from the point of view of rent it is certainly very substantial rent. That was your scheme, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa is giving us all facility. Utilize it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I especially like that bank, because when you come in, in the center of the wall, instead of seeing some old grumpy-looking bank president, we see Your Divine Grace's effulgent picture, and it says, right under your picture-it's a very big picture—it says "I.O.B. Welcomes You." It's very nicely done. And in each of the teller's counters, each of the cashier's counters, there's a little picture of Rādhā-Rāsabihārī.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's very nicely done. People who go there bank with confidence.

Prabhupāda: And they are getting benefit.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you are managing, I know, but you are all important men and unnecessarily you are bound up. You cannot go. So Lokanātha party has got some experience and let me go. In India the climate is now good. If I recover, it is very good. You know. So what is the wrong? If I die, then the body will be brought either in Vṛndāvana or Māyāpur, that's all. And if I live, it will be a great end of a life. You are all experienced.

Jayapatāka: As much as you have trained us, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that is only how much we are experienced. We don't want that you be burdened any more with material management problems but...

Prabhupāda: No, not from that point of view. What is the use of lying down here?

Jayapatāka: The kavirāja said...

Prabhupāda: Kavirāja may say...

Jayapatāka: ...that even that your body is going to, is got a life of six to ten years but he said even a healthy cow, if it's kept locked up inside of a room, then it will deteriorate.

Prabhupāda: And therefore I say, (laughs) don't keep me locked up. You do your duty as I have trained you and let me be free and if money required, he'll come and take and go back again as he is coming to take book.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They have got experience Indian, you can go village to village and, arrangement as you may, but it is trouble taken, and I am no longer, you manage. If I live, I can come again. I shall be very glad.

Devotee: Previously it was mentioned that there was some risk in travelling.

Prabhupāda: What is that risk? Nowadays there is no risk. What is the risk? Mm?

Devotee: Well from the medical point of view it's something with the organs or something, I don't know exactly but it's been considered.

Prabhupāda: This is my proposal and...

Jayapatāka: That would be after you gained some strength, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If I (have) free air and free movement why sunshine (?) and I can come back again in a year.

Jayapatāka: You will be translating while you're travelling?

Prabhupāda: No, yes and no.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hired or purchased?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for now just hired, not purchased. Later on we can make a more permanent arrangement, and it can be fixed up as nicely as possible. At the same time while we were meeting, the kavirāja, he also was present. So we inquired from him what he thought about this program, from a medical point of view of course. Spiritually he is in complete agreement. So from a medical point of view, he said that you would not at all be able to withstand this kind of a trip. He said that in a bullock cart, moving around, bumping on the road, you might not be able to live more than a couple of hours. He's here now. He wanted to speak to you.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Lokanātha?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lokanātha has already gone, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: He has gone to Mathurā for renting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has gone out for renting the bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: Oh.