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People were... (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Yes. Now, is that all of this?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then He visited Jagannātha temple. And the Jagannātha temple you have to arrange, it is very crowded temple. So many people were visiting Jagannātha temple, at the same time Lord Caitanya also entered, and He entered alone.

Hayagrīva: How old is He at this point?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu?

Hayagrīva: His age at this time?

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four years. It is just after His sannyāsa. He took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four. So He's visiting. After sannyāsa He's going to Jagannātha Purī. On the way He visited this Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha, Sākṣi-gopāla, and ultimately He came to Jagannātha temple. And in the Jagannātha temple was very crowded temple because it is always at least 500, 1,000 devotees are always seeing. It is significance of Jagannātha temple. So He entered and as soon as He saw Jagannātha He became overwhelmed with ecstasy and fell down unconscious. So all the people gathered, "He's a young sannyāsī. He has fallen down." So there was Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, the learned scholar of Purī. He saw, "Oh, this young sannyāsī, He's not ordinary." So he asked his men to carry Him to his place and that will be the scene. Then after His departure His followers will come, and they will search in the temple that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not there. Then one Gopīnātha Ācārya, I think the character is there? Gopīnātha Ācārya?

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: A child is attached to play. But when he grows up, his attachment is transferred to study. That does not mean he gives up the attachment for playing, that attachment is lost. No. Attachment must be there, but that is transferred or purified. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means purified consciousness, real consciousness. And the next stage, after being freed from misgivings—attachment for the real identity, ruci. Then āsakti, greater attachment. Then an ecstasy. That means I am coming nearer to God. Because I am God's... In the beginning I told you that we have forgotten our relationship with God. So when we are out of misgivings, we come to the platform of increasing attachment for God. So this attachment, when it is perfectional stage, it is called love of God. Love is here also. Instead of loving God, we are now loving dog. Love is there, but when you are out of misgivings, you transfer your love from dog to God. These are the different stages to come to the... How do you attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness? These are the stages. So if we follow cautiously and sentiently these six stages of development, you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness automatically. (break) ...study. This meditation and breathing exercise is not part of our study. Because we are following a method which is direct method. I will give you the example. Just like there is a skyscraper house, and there are staircases to go to the top floor, say, hundredth floor, and there is elevator also. So if you take advantage of the elevator, you reach immediately hundred floor within a minute, but if you go step by step, step by step, it will take hours. So this meditation process is not possible at the present age. This meditation was recommended, according to Vedic literature, in the golden age, when the duration of life was very, very long, people were peaceful, there was no disturbance. The exact version in the Vedas is kṛte. Kṛte means in the golden age, when everyone is pious. That is called kṛta-yuga, age of kṛta, very pious age. So in those ages people used to live one hundred thousands of years, and they were very pure, there was no sinful activity. In that stage, meditation was possible. Meditation requires certain principles. You have to select a solitary, sacred place. You have to sit alone. You have to close your eyes half, not full.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But meditation as this Maharshi or any other swami or..., are professing, that is not exactly the process of meditation. The standard meditation is described in Bhagavad-gītā. That is very difficult job. You have to select a solitary place, you have to sit in a certain posture, you have to regulate your life, complete celibacy, eating, sleeping... There are so many rules and regulations that that sort of meditation is absolutely impossible for the present way of life. For the present generation, the chanting, vibration of holy name of God, is recommended in the scriptures. It is said that meditation was possible in the Satya-yuga, when people were cent percent pure. And they are... For the present, mostly, people are impure. So they cannot execute meditation as it is described in the standard scriptures.

Interviewer: Is yoga part of meditation?

Prabhupāda: Yoga is a very broad term. Yoga means to connect with the Absolute Truth. That is yoga. Yoga means connecting link. So there are different varieties of yoga. Just like one staircase, it is the connecting link to the top floor. So that is, everywhere you can say staircase, but one who has crossed a few steps and one who has crossed a few floors, they are not on the same level.

Interviewer: I'd like to read one thing. This is evidently said by a man named Swami Śiva Premānada of New York's yoga center. He said, "If one has the time to put in about eight or ten hours a day for ten years, one might develop the power to see through a wall through meditation. I've seen people develop X-ray vision, but I've never seen the point of paying such a heavy price for it."

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1968, Montreal, With First Devotees Going to London On Evening of Their Departure:

Prabhupāda: Annapūrṇa is always present wherever I go. (laughing) She is very nice, that she wants to follow me. This morning I was asking her that "After your marriage where you want to stay?" and she said, "Wherever you stay, I stay." "And I am traveling. Then you are married. You must have a place to settle." Anyway, in that church they charged us for meeting, but we collected very nicely. We collected more than hundred dollars. Yes. A very nice meeting.

Janārdana: How many people were there?

Prabhupāda: More than hundred, because we collected hundred dollars, and utmost, they have paid one dollar.

Janārdana: The summer season is very slow in Montreal. The churches cut down their sermon program. The synagogues don't having sermons in the summer very often. So that's why we haven't had so many engagements. But in the month of September things begin to pick up faster. The coldest time of the year is the busiest time of the year here actually. The real busy season is January and February.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was speaking to Gaurasundara that Janārdana speaks, "The winter season is the busiest season," and you said, "It is dull season"? (chuckles)

Janārdana: January and February are the busiest, and they are the coldest months too.

Prabhupāda: Very busy?

Janārdana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How you are feeling, Śāradīyā? Nice?

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: And when you speak of the analogies of one, say, a foreigner coming to another country and wanting to do whatever he wants to do there and being rejected or opposed by the inhabitants of that country, do you say only by analogy that there might be opposition to earth people?

Prabhupāda: No. There are informations. Somebody trying to enter in the heavenly planet was opposed because he was not qualified.

Reporter: So then because of this example are you saying that if earth people were able to land on the moon that they would be...?

Prabhupāda: First of all, my first conviction is they will never be able. But even they are able, I do not know how they will be easily received.

Reporter: You do not know how?

Prabhupāda: They will easily admitted.

Reporter: You said you don't know how they would easily be received or admitted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, by the residents there.

Reporter: The word "easily" there I don't know how that would... You don't know how they would be received, whether they would be hostile or friendly.

Prabhupāda: Naturally, when I oppose, then I must be hostile.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You should know it. How it can be. There must be a very big brain behind this. They are working.

Journalist: Now do you say that the moon is, so to speak...? What should I say? Headquarters, where these demigods live?

Prabhupāda: No, there are many planets on the same level. There are many planets. Moon is one of them.

Journalist: Have any of these demigod creatures visited the earth or...

Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to because at that time people were worth to see them. You see?

Journalist: When you say formerly, you mean thousands of years ago or...

Prabhupāda: No. At least five thousand years ago.

Journalist: At least, five thousand years ago the last time that any, that we would... Are they in human form?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So far we get information, sometimes great sacrifices were performed, and demigods from other planets, they were invited, and they used to come.

Journalist: Where...? Where...? And this is... Your authority for this statement is based in the Vedic literature?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Journalist: I see. I see.

Prabhupāda: It is not manufactured by me.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: So I just follow up on this very briefly. In other words, you feel that the western-oriented church, whether it be a synagogue or a church, has failed to present... Would you say that it's message is not relevant or that they have failed to present their message properly?

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is these western churches, just like Christianity, these gospels were spoken long, long ago to the primitive men, you see? Jerusalem. These people were living in desert, and they were not so much advanced. So at that time... Of course, in Bible or in the Old Testament, the idea of God is there, that is all nice. But they... Just like the statement, "God created this world." That is a fact. Now those people who are not advanced in those... Now, at the present moment, people are advanced scientifically. They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world. They are maintaining slaughterhouse very regularly, and they have manufactured a theory that animals have no soul, they do not feel—because they have to kill. "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." Why animal cannot feel? Why you are committing these sinful activities? So the priestly class, they will not also say, they will not discuss, everyone is silent. That means deliberately, I mean to say, disobeying Ten Commandments. So where is religious principle? If you don't obey the commandments of your scripture does it mean that you are following a religion nicely? How you can kill which you cannot create? And it is plainly stated there, "Thou shall not kill." What is the answer? Why they are killing? What is the answer? How do you answer it?

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Now, what is the purpose of religion? Why human society...? In human society, why there is some sort of religion? The animals, they have got no religion. Therefore if human society gives up the process of religion... Doesn't matter what religion he professes. It doesn't matter. If he doesn't care for religion, that society is no better than animals. That is animal society. Because animals, they have got no religion. So human society, if they have no religion... Must have some religion. It doesn't matter whether Christian or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything. A human being must follow. That is civilized. That is the behavior of civilized world. At the present moment they are neglecting. But in every country, either there may be temples or churches or mosque, people were very religious-minded before this age. I was very much satisfied when I came to New York... no, not only New York. First of all, I went to Pittsburgh, Butler. In that Butler County there were at least one dozen churches, very nice churches. That's a small county. So I was very much satisfied. "Oh, the American people are very religious. They have got these churches." And I saw on Sunday people were attending churches. And in New York also I saw. They may understand or not understand, but that religious spirit is there. You are responding to my appeal because you have got that spirit. Otherwise, why should you come and waste your time with me? So religious principle must be there in the human society. And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy. And we are searching after happiness. So real happiness is not in this world. You take any, I mean to say, messiaḥ. You take Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Lord Caitanya or Kṛṣṇa, or anyone you take.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. He took sannyāsa by previous arrangement. One day He went away from home, accompanied by Murāri and Lord Nityānanda, and went to Katwa. There was one Māyāvādī sannyāsī, Keśava Bhāratī, and He took sannyāsa from him. And then He was, in emotion He was going to Vṛndāvana, but He was misled by Nityānanda, and He was brought to the home of Advaita, and Advaita arranged to bring His mother to see Him for the last. So His mother and many people from Nabadwip came to Sant... Advaita's house was in Santipur. So there was, for a few days, Caitanya Mahāprabhu stayed there, and saṅkīrtana and prasāda distribution was going on. And His mother feeling, feeling very well... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw that "My mother is not allowing Me to go. That is not good." So He requested, "Mother, I have taken sannyāsī. If I go on feasting like this with mother, what people will say? So you give Me permission to go." So mother said, "Yes, my dear boy. You have taken sannyāsī. But anyway You are happy. That is my happiness. But my only request is that You make Your headquarters at Jagannātha Purī. Because people from Nabadwip generally go there, so I shall get at least Your news. That is my last desire." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Yes. I shall make My headquarters in Purī." So people were coming and going. So His mother was getting news of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That was then last days. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after that incident, never met, either His mother... And there was no question of meeting with wife.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Previous year... Anyone? Everyone you have got? All right. So this is the difference. I have been in Moscow. So there is... I couldn't find this. I could not eat fruit. Now your country, Kṛṣṇa has given so nice, so nice flowers, and so nice Vaiṣṇavas. And that country is very proud of advancing, but there is no fruit, there is no flower, there is no Vaiṣṇava, and there is no freedom. And this is the... They are proud. You see? "We are advanced." This is the... There is a story, one worshiper of Durgā... In Bengal, they worship Durgā Mātā. So it is a story, the Durgā Mātā, the Goddess Durgā is asking the devotee, "My dear boy, you are happy?" "Yes, mother, I am very happy. Simply two things wanting." "What is this?" "I have no food, I have no clothing." Just see. This is story, just try to understand, that "I am happy, but two things wanting: no food, no clothing." Is that happiness? No food, no clothing. Similarly, this Russian country, they are very much proud of advancement, but no food sufficient and no freedom. No food and no freedom, that's all. This is the sum and substance.

So in your country also that position may come. Now in America you are happy. Because the nature is changing, jagat. Jagat means which is changing. So before any further changes come, you spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over your country. You should utilize these fruits and flowers for Kṛṣṇa and be happy. Don't slip down. That is my request. Whatever I could do, I have done. Now it is up to you to spread this movement all over the world. Don't go away. There is some tendency, somebody. Therefore, I ask you, no. This is all nonsense. This is māyā's peeping, "Why you are working so hard for a sentiment, chanting and dancing? Come on, take to service and be happy with your wife and children." This is māyā. This is māyā. I did not ask my students to marry to become a lost child. I wanted to give them some facility, because you cannot do without wife. But now I am seeing that some of them are slipping away. This is not to be done, no. Every one of us as good as sannyāsī because we have sacrificed everything for Kṛṣṇa. Sannyāsī does not mean simply having no wife and children, he's a sannyāsī. No. Nothing to possess except Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsī. One should know that "I will have simply Kṛṣṇa, nothing more." Then he is sannyāsī. This mentality, that "I have nothing to serve, I have nobody to serve except Kṛṣṇa." But if you serve Kṛṣṇa, you will serve everyone. Just like I was teaching this Indian gentleman. The same process. If you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the leaves, and the flowers are all served. If you put the foodstuff here, not here, not here, then automatically this is served. Although the foodstuff is here, automatically this is served, this is served, this is served, this is... Everybody is served. This is practical. If you serve Kṛṣṇa, then all service will be included. They are serving humanitarian and so on. Suppose I, I am Indian, I came to your country. Why I came to your country in this old age? That is service. To be Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's the best service. Without any distinction of caste, creed, country, color. No. Everyone should have Kṛṣṇa. This is the best service. Go everywhere, every part of the world, and give Kṛṣṇa. That is the best service you can do. And actually, they are now feeling, because they are Indians. Even in India, where there are so many devotees of Kṛṣṇa, but when they saw "These American devotees are so nice," thirty thousand people were coming daily.

Darsana -- June 28, 1971, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So give one man from each center. It doesn't require that he is very advanced. Advancement will be done by training, by practical application in life. If you send from each center one man to India... If you can send more, that's all right. But at least one man. In India we have got many things to do. Because the business in India is important in this respect, that partly due to their subjugation by foreigners, their original culture has been killed. Just like in India, they did not know drinking tea, drinking wine, meat-eating, illicit sex. They did not know. Even fifty, a hundred years before, they did not know. These Britishers, in order to control them, very silently introduced all these things. I know in our childhood, this drinking of tea was unknown to any family. Meat-eating, there was no question. Just like in my life, I do not know what is meat-eating, do not know womanizing(?) or illicit sex life, because we are trained in that way. So due to foreign domination, they were killed; and after independence, these rascal leaders, they are killing it: "What is the wrong in meat-eating? What is the wrong in drinking?" They are canvassing: "Eat chickens, eat eggs,." This is going on. So at the present moment there is great propaganda from the side of the government and others to kill India's original culture. So when Americans go there and preach and they see, "Oh, so nice Vaiṣṇava, so nice devotee and so pure," they will become attracted, because that is their original culture. At heart they want to do that, but by artificial means they are being forced to accept something else. So when they see these foreigners and Americans so... And government is not very favorable of my movement there, because it is natural when the Americans exhibit a nice, pure Vaiṣṇava, they come attracted. Just like Calcutta and Bombay, what was there? The same Deity was and saṅkīrtana was there and I was speaking say for a half an hour. But why these forty thousand, thirty thousand people were coming? They were coming to see, "Oh, how Americans have taken to this philosophy(?)." That is their surprise. They are giving credit only for that purpose. This man also. So there is good chance of preaching in India in this respect. We want some men to preach there. It will be great work. So I think in each center, from each center you can contribute one man, and some of you leaders may go. There are already, organize. People are very much attracted. They are wanting..., giving us money, they want to give us place, there is no scarcity of food, there is no question.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: That I am explaining, that it is not the only one. There may be many. But it is practically effective.

Interviewer: Now let's say, in the part of the world where, if I'm understanding your philosophy and your history correctly, in the part of the world where this particular philosophy and this particular belief originated, which is in India, in the Eastern part of the world, at least as we look at it. Is it successful there? Do you have a large following over there?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Recently I was in India. I held two meetings continued for ten days everywhere, and 20 to 30 thousand people were attending daily. So India's position is that they are naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious, but at the present moment by the so-called leaders, they want to replace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into material consciousness.

Interviewer: Is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness belief or philosophy compatible with the Hindu religion which...

Prabhupāda: With any religion.

Interviewer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Any religion. Because God is one. It is the science of God. The "two plus two equal to four," it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. "Two plus two equal to four" is a fact for everyone. Similarly God is fact for everyone. Now how to love God. This is the only process. That is.

Interviewer: Now do you claim then that your way of loving God is the way to love God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.

Interviewer: For this age?

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Interviewer: Do you have a large following there?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Recently, I was in India. I held two meetings, I mean continued for ten days, everywhere, and twenty to thirty thousand people were attending daily. The India's position is that they're naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious, but, at the present moment, by the so-called leader, they want to replace this Kṛṣṇa consciousness into material consciousness.

Interviewer: Is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness belief or philosophy compatible with the Hindu religion, which is...

Prabhupāda: Any religion.

Interviewer: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: Any religion.

Interviewer: Any religion.

Prabhupāda: Because God is one. It is a science of God. If two plus two equal to four, it is understood by everyone. It is not that it is to be understood by the Christian, not by the Hindus. Two plus two equal to four is a fact for everyone. Similarly, God is a fact for everyone. Now, how to love God, this is the only process. That is.

Interviewer: Now, do you claim, then, that your way of loving God is the way to love God?

Prabhupāda: Yes. At least for this age.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: They'll like. Enough ingredients to preach. Simply one has to become intelligent how to express. The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.

Revatīnandana: It's nice because here people will listen. In India they won't listen, and in America they can't listen. They're so degraded. (end)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Author -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Author: Yes, well, I'm not trying to... Because I am not an adherent of... I'm not a Hare Kṛṣṇa movement member. That is obvious. And because I am not a member of the movement, I am therefore not trying to do precisely what you gentlemen are saying, but I'll not try to package an unwholesome product like poison...(laughter) Yes, I appreciate that. But what I am trying to do is to describe what is. Now this requires an exercise of the imagination. If you imagine somebody who is outside, as each of you people were at one stage, you came to understand what this movement was by a gradual process. Now I, in a book of about a hundred pages, am going to trace that process, not in the way you did it, but in a slightly different way. But the things that strikes one immediately are these external, superficial characteristics. And then one he comes to appreciate rather more important things. And it's just a question of stating these in that way. Now in order to understand the highest possible things, it surely is necessary to state the superficial things as well, the less important things. It seems to me to be clearly...

Upendra: What Prabhupāda is speaking tonight is very important and it might appear that he is not understanding you but he is actually speaking to you, like you said, necessary (indistinct) so that if you can assimilate everything Prabhupāda is saying tonight, you'll be able to write the book much more clearly. You might think that he is not understanding you, but he is speaking the most important part.

Author: I am not (indistinct) his understanding. I think he is worried about my understanding, which is why he is... Right. Well, I appreciate this, but I am trying to convince him that I am going to try to say accurately what your philosophy is. And in this I'll have to rely on your help, because I can't do it otherwise.

Prabhupāda: I have already explained our philosophy.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: If they don't commit suicide, then they begin taking drugs.

Prabhupāda: That is also another suicide.

Jayatīrtha: When I was in Chicago, the one section where the temple is close by, more than sixty percent of the people were heroin addicts in this one section. They were so much degraded. (indistinct conversation) I was reading in the newspaper that the astronauts that are going to the moon, they wanted to take wine with them, so that when they got to the moon they could celebrate their victory.

Prabhupāda: There is a story, (Sanskrit). One man said to his friend, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is also drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "My mother is drinking." "Oh, she will also go to hell." "My brother is drinking." "Oh, he will also go to hell." In this way, the last fellow was, "Oh, everyone is going to hell, then hell is heaven. Why do you say hell? We shall live together and drink. Why do you call hell? This is heaven." (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why association and company is so important.

Prabhupāda: So ignorance... It is folly to be wise, so ignorance is bliss. So drinking is heaven. Even they go to moon planet, there must be wine. Otherwise, how it is heaven? That is called punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. If your wine is heaven, then why do you take so much trouble? Why don't you drink here? Such rascals they are. Why you spend so much money? No, the heaven will be taken in bottle.

Morning Walks -- October 1-3, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) here?

Jayatīrtha: Yes, they're in Hollywood. I've never seen it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: They have a place in Hollywood. I've never seen it, but I know people who have gone there. They become like a fad, like Maharishi. Two years ago he was very big, thousands of people were coming.

Prabhupāda: Who?

Jayatīrtha: This Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. He was very big. He was in the newspapers and thousands of people came and paid thirty-five dollars, took initiation. But now you don't hear anything about him. So this man will come, make a big show, make some money, but in two years he'll just be a memory.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Why does he not come again? He has gone forever.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You have said that whenever there is Kṛṣṇa there will be success everywhere, all the time.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When there is Kṛṣṇa, there will be success everywhere.

Prabhupāda: That is the real success. (indistinct) There are so many places I see the sign for.

Jayatīrtha: Yes, they are one of the biggest corporations in the United States.

Prabhupāda: Accha?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, parikrama. And the parikrama, that is also another incident that... I, I was not initiated at that time, but I had very good admiration for these Gauḍīya Maṭha people, and before, before 1933 I met Śrīdhara Mahārāja and other devotees, old Tīrtha Mahārāja. So they were kind to me. Now, the parikrama, I thought, "What these people are doing in this parikrama? Let me go." So I met them in Kosi. Parvata Mahārāja, you may remember, and all people were going to see some Sesasayi.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, so at that time Vinode Bhai, later on Keśava Mahārāja, he informed that "Prabhupāda is going to Mathurā tomorrow morning and he will speak Hari-kathā this evening. Anyone who wants to remain may remain or otherwise they may prepare to go to see Śeṣaśāyī." So at that time, I think only ten or twelve men remained. Out of them Śrīdhara Mahārāja was one of them, and I thought it wise, "What shall I see, this Śeṣaśāyī? Let me hear. Prabhupāda will speak, let me hear." So Prabhupāda marked that this boy...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) to listen to him (indistinct).

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...trouble to the poor animals. Why the poor animals should be killed? They have got equal rights. But these rascals, they will not give equal rights. (break)... National means one who is born in that land. The animals are born in that land. Man is also born in that land. Trees are also born in that land. But they are not national. Only human beings national. Imperfect knowledge.

Guest (4): In Luton, before eighty years... When I was reading the history of Luton, on the page number 176, it was written that there was a great shortage of food before eighty years, and in some place people were cutting their own children and eating.

Prabhupāda: Huh?!

Guest (4): This is written. If you like that book, I can send you. So the non-vegetarians...

Prabhupāda: Cutting their children?!

Guest (4): Cutting their own children, killing them and eat them. In some private places in Luton, where I am residing now. The history of Luton has been published by the County Borough of Luton. The non-vegetarian food leaved them to such an extent that they couldn't stay without the meat. And they had to cut their own children. Now we are vegetarian. I have never tasted any meat. I don't know the taste of it. Still. we all exist on vegetables, all sorts of vegetables.

Prabhupāda: The same thing happened in Kanpur in a hotel. One man was eating meat, and he found a little finger...

Guest (4): Finger of some...

Guest (2): That was in the Bombay, in the Villa Parle, in my place, where I was living.

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Where you are staying here? London?

Buddhist Monk (1): That has become a little difficult because... It's difficult. We didn't know these āśramas, and we came yesterday. The Guru Nanak temple people made arrangements for our transport. We were staying with them for one week, and they looked after us dearly, and they made arrangements for our transport to come here. Some people were coming on some other business. So they brought us. So it was not much time. So we met a person in the street, and we told them that we are looking after a place to stay. And that person said, "Well, it's difficult here." Then I asked about two or three, and we had some addresses and they were far away. Then we met a friendly gentleman who was just reversing his car. He was smiling. And we smiled. We said, "Well, could you tell us a small place to pitch a tent." We carry a small tent. We said, "For a day or two..." He asked me how long. I said, "Just to find some breathing space at least." So we have pitched up a small tent in a private garden. That's somewhere in Cheswick Lane.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Haṁsadūta: Cheswick Lane.

Buddhist Monk (1): That's by the river, uh? It's quite far away, yes. So last night we stayed there. Is that on the western side of...?

Devotee: Yes, that's the West Fork.

Buddhist Monk (1): West Fork. West Fork.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Yes, yes, yes. A very nice reception, the Hotel De Ville.

Bhagavān: Prabhupāda, Prabhupāda spoke on our philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā.

Cardinal Danielou: Oh, Bhagavad-gītā, yes, yes, yes...

Bhagavān: People were very interested. Our spiritual concept of soul, he spoke on.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. It is a... Personally I like very much Hinduism. And I have a brother, (indistinct), it is my brother, who is a specialist on Hinduism...

Bhagavān: Yes, his brother has written a very great book which is known all over France...

Cardinal Danielou: Especially on Indian music, Indian music. He live many years in Benares.

Prabhupāda: Benares.

Cardinal Danielou: Benares. Fifteen years. Fifteen years in Benares.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was in fifteen years?

Cardinal Danielou: Oh, yes, a very long time. Oh yes. Very long time. Yes. And after he, he worked in Pondicherry and each year he comes in India. Yes. Yes. He's very well known in India for his works, especially about Indian music, but also Indian spirituality, the yogas, Indian gods and all question concerning India. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Where he is now?

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Russian Revolution.

Prabhupāda: Seventy. Seventy. Yes, no, we were student at that time. So what they have done? They are changing, changing, changing. And I went to Moscow, I saw the people were not happy. There are so many things that is against one's psychological understanding. So many things. Therefore now they are going to hold some peace conference. Who told me? Oh, yes, Haṁsadūta. So without God consciousness, there cannot be any peace. That's a fact. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there. Tomorrow, when you are going?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Me? Tomorrow night. I'll come here tomorrow also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I will give you some letters for Bali Mardana.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bali Mardana? (break)

Brahmānanda: At MIT. At other colleges I was present.

Prabhupāda: So that very time so I first of all asked the students, "Where is your technological department to find out the thing when a man is dead, and you replace it?" These were my subject matter. I talked. A man is working. (Aside:) come on. A man is working. All of a sudden he stops to work. So a motor car is working. All of a sudden it stops. So there are technologists who can repair the car and it will again start. That is technology. Now the man is working, stopped. So where is that technology to make it move again. That was... I spoke on this. So they very much appreciated. After my lecture they gathered round me. You remember that? No.

Conversation at Airport -- October 26, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It must be difficult. It must be difficult, because the so-called advancement has not helped the people. In our childhood we purchased ghee one rupee, first-class. Now it is not available. And this is advancement of civilization.

Guest (1): The population has increased so much.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is not the question, population. Population was... Formerly one man used to beget one hundred children. From Mahābhārata we understand that Dhṛtarāṣṭra, his name is mentioned because he was king. That means at that time people were able to beget one hundred children. And who is begetting one hundred children now? One, two, three, four, that's all. How the population can be increased now? It is all bogus propaganda.

Guest (1): What do you think is the solution of these difficulties?

Prabhupāda: Solution of difficulty is to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He will say... They may say, but we are putting some fact. They may say all nonsense. We are not going to accept that.

Karandhara: Some of them say, "Well we've improved on nature. By making things like plastics and medicines, we've improved nature."

Prabhupāda: All right. Very improvement. People were eating in silver plates, golden plates, and you have improved by plastic plates. (laughter) This rascaldom can be understood by another rascal. We are not going to do.

Hṛdayānanda: The plastic is a great problem because they can't get rid of it. Plastic has become a great problem because there is no way to dispose of it. So it just piles up and piles up, and they can't get rid of it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In the future they are going to make plastic houses.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Transparent, you can see everything from the house.

Prabhupāda: So what is the credit there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say that is an improvement.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: In the early days of this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New York, devotees said they did not know how to treat Your Divine Grace. They did not know your exalted position. I think we are still very much offensive.

Prabhupāda: No, I am servant. I have no exalted position. Servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sat down in a place where people were washing their feet. Yes. (break) ...a representative of Kṛṣṇa. I came to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa has sent so many representatives to help me. I consider like that. Without your help I could not do. So I wanted Kṛṣṇa's help, so Kṛṣṇa has sent you. Therefore you are representative of Kṛṣṇa. That is my conception.

Prajāpati: We're just dogs, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prajāpati: Barking at your feet, that's all.

Prabhupāda: That is your humbleness. That is nice.

Prajāpati: Not humbleness. That's fact.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Candanācārya: ...that there are some things that the guru says that the disciple does not accept.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. Reality, because they do not know. They have been always been misguided by rascals. Therefore they cannot think of that there can be perfection. This is called skepticism. Because everyone is faulty, therefore there is no knowledge. This is skeptism. But real knowledge is that as I see this man is intelligent that man, that man is intelligent than that man, therefore there is an ideal intelligent man which we could not find. And that is God. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

Karandhara: Just like when they go and excavate a city under the ground, an old city, they see that so many things were built, and they say, "Oh, these people were very intelligent." Although they never saw the person, they saw the civilization in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. By symptoms, by symptoms they can understand.

Karandhara: So they say, "Well, we cannot see God." But they could not see the people in those past days either.

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot see the government, but when things are going nicely, you must accept, there is government. That is... When things are going on very nicely, regularly, the sun is rising regularly, the moon is rising regularly, the seasons are changing and the waves are flowing, everything, then you have to accept that there is government. And as we have got experience here in this material world... Government is impersonal, but that at the end there is a president. Similarly, the whole government, the complete government, may be impersonal in the beginning, but at the end there is a person, that Supreme Person, Bhagavān. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11).

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: English books.

Jagajjīvana: A small fair. Thousands of people go to this flower festival in the mountains, and we went in, and they let us in and we chanted and hundreds of people came to chant. And then the officials came to stop us.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jagajjīvana: Because too many people were coming to hear the chanting. So then...

Prabhupāda: They did not like it?

Jagajjīvana: No, they did not like it, the officials. So then we started to leave, thinking, "Well, rather than cause any trouble, we better leave." So then the people, they wouldn't let us leave. So then the leaders there, they were forced to put us on stage. And so we chanted on stage with big microphones and thousands of people came to listen, and then we taught them how to chant Nitāi-Gaurāṅga, and they all chanted. Nitāi, Nitāi, Gaurāṅga, Gaurāṅga. It was very amazing. And then we distributed books and we lectured. (break) Their Lordships Gaura-Nitāi have come because of that chanting, Deities. (break)

Prabhupāda: If the chanter is sincere.

Jagajjīvana: In the Dominican Republic which is an island near us, the chanting is so powerful, it draws so many people, that the government won't let us in to the country because it is so powerful. We have devotees there now, though. We had to send a devotee incognito, in disguise, to get residence there. Now he's...

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body's machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: (BG 18.61) "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has asked the material energy "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That's all. Give him a..." yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine. They are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; "All right, give it." That is going on. He wants this facility. Now before these motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Kṛṣṇa has given us brain to manufacture. That's all. But what you will benefit by this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all this nonsense proposal." But they will not do that. They will create another nonsense desire. That desire should be stopped. That is desireless. Because they will go on simply proposing some nonsense desire... That is their material existence. Now, they have discovered this, made this motor, nice... Now there is problem, no power, gasoline. And if the gasoline is stopped, then your whole endeavor is gone. So this is their business. They are manufacturing something which will entangle him more and more. That he does not know.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then why he should not become dog? Become yaṁ yaṁ vāpi... He has great love for dog, and it is said that yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajati (BG 8.6), at the time of death, he will think of dog and he will become dog. This is...

Yaśodānandana: One time I asked one Indian man, "Why is it that people beat the dogs in India?" He says, "Because the English people were ruling for so long. Now they have taken birth as dogs. We beat them."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In America taking care of the dogs and cats is a very big business. It's a very big business.

Karandhara: They even have cemeteries.

Candanācārya: They buy ten thousand dollar necklace for their dog.

Prabhupāda: Just see how much attracted.

Candanācārya: Yes, when they die, they leave all their money to the dog.

Prabhupāda: So why they refuse to become a dog? Why they refuse to become a dog?

Karandhara: Some of them would like to become.

Umāpati: Some of them think dogs and cats are more intelligent than people.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Bali Mardana: They will say, "How do we...?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa is not God, but you have already surrendered to God. Kṛṣṇa may not be God, that is... You bring another God, then we shall reject him. Kṛṣṇa... But that you cannot. You do not know who is God. At least, we know what is God. But if you deny that Kṛṣṇa is not God, then bring another God at least equal to Kṛṣṇa.

Bali Mardana: They'll bring Guru Maharaji. (laughter) Many people were disappointed in Houston because he did not display any miracles. They were expecting to see many things.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: Many of his followers were disappointed 'cause they expected him to show some miracles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He will be rejected after a few years. That's all. Just like Maharishi.

Bali Mardana: Maharishi.

Satsvarūpa: I told one professor that... He was arguing in favor of Guru Maharaji. I said, "He's not mentioned in the scriptures," and he says, "Yes, in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says whenever there's a time of irreligion then He comes. So this is a time certainly of irreligion," he said. So that's one evidence, he said, in his favor.

Prabhupāda: So what he has done about religion?

Satsvarūpa: He hasn't done anything.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot find because according to Vedic culture, the body's burned into ashes. Where you'll get the bones and fossils?

Bali Mardana: You only come up with the primitive ones who are not civilized.

Prabhupāda: We understand from the writings, not from the fossils and bones. The bones and fossils are already finished, but they kept their writing.

Bali Mardana: Only the uncivilized people were buried.

Prabhupāda: Suppose I am writing books. In future if you could not find my bones and fossils, but the books will prove what I was. So we have got the books. That is the real bones and fossils.

Bali Mardana: They try to disprove...

Prabhupāda: They cannot find out bones and fossils of Kṛṣṇa. Now, why they accept?

Satsvarūpa: Nobody agreed... (tape garbled)

Prabhupāda: You have to accept authority... (break) ...authority of yourself, we have got authority also. We have got authority. We have got our books... (break) ...that Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years but you say they do not believe in... (break) ...these rascals. Although it is history... (end)

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Gupta: These (indistinct) ought to be finished. They cannot remain.

Prabhupāda: No! (Hindi) ...that glowworm. Glowworm (Hindi) beautiful (Hindi) darkness hai. (Hindi) So long people were in darkness, they were beautiful. Now there is sunshine.

Gupta: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda is the sun.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...the anxiety of Prahlāda Mahārāja, "How these rascals, who have made a plan for happiness of a few men, gorgeous plan." And they're... For happiness of the government servant. That's all. You know in Delhi there is Planning Commission? What is that plan? That people may starve, and Indira Gandhi and company may flourish. That's all.

Gupta: I think, Mahārāja, they are coming to the office at twelve and going back at one, doing nothing, and...

Prabhupāda: But what they have got to do?

Gupta: They are not doing...

Prabhupāda: Just like I have seen in London the Parliament. When they had some so-called empire... Now the Parliament is useless, useless. The Parliament members and the Lords, House of Lords, House of Commons, they are now useless. They have got some old books only. In Parliament. I have seen. Some old books. Old books means all the speeches are recorded in books. And who is going to read them? Almiras, so many... I have seen in Parliament. Hundreds and thousands of speeches recorded and bound up very nicely. Who is going to read them? Simply waste of time.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Although there is no fault, the guru's business is to: "Where is his fault?" That is guru's business. Tasmād taḍayet na tu lalayet.

Dr. Patel: Yesterday you had a very big congregation here? Or all the chairs were kept out?

Prabhupāda: Yes. People were coming. Therefore we have given. Not very big congregation, but many people came.

Dr. Patel: You are doing in the Fourth Adhyāya.

Prabhupāda: Fourth Adhyāya. Yes. Bahūni me vyatītāni janmāni tava cārjuna. (break) (Hindi) (break) ...he shall become locust.

Dr. Patel: All locust.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Not only that, but the, this, what is this...? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...varṇa, there are symptoms. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35). "If you find those lakṣaṇas, symptoms, even in other place..." Suppose if you find the symptoms of caṇḍāla in the family of a brāhmaṇa, he's a caṇḍāla. He's not brāhmaṇa.

Dr. Patel: But he is a born caṇḍāla and also wants to be a king, he can't be.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But this cannot be carried.

Dr. Patel: And then people were so...

Prabhupāda: If you make some injunction which is impossible to carry...

Dr. Patel: Now! Kāla-dharma. That was a different kāla. That was a different time. Now they have also made some, so many... (break) ...they talk also, emergency, they talk also. In the Emergency Room, they talk also with the ladies. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...still going on.

Dr. Patel: Much more than...

Prabhupāda: Due to introduction of Sadananda's principles, the debauchery has not reduced. It has increased. So that is a failure.

Guest (1): The more we try to stop, it is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): That is the principle. (break)

Prabhupāda: That is the injunction, that is in śāstra:

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (3): Perfectly right, but what I say what he has... Finer points.

Prabhupāda: Now you say there are seven branches, and they're preaching in a different way. So how people will understand...?

Indian man (3): Because then those people were reading all so many śāstras he narrowed to five. He wanted the Veda you must read, Vyāsa-sūtra... (break)

Prabhupāda: Beginning should be Bhagavad-gītā. (break) Pañcopāsanam. Pañcopāsanam is not for the Vaiṣṇava.

Indian man (4): Not pañcopāsa, Pañcarātra.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Pañc... Pañcarātra is all right. He has recommended the...

Indian man (4): Gaṇapati (indistinct)

Prabhupāda (4): Gaṇapati... In the Bhagavad-gītā it is not recommended. Mām ekam.

Indian man: Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja.

Prabhupāda: So, why (indistinct).

Indian man (4): Don't say this kind of thing—"It is not recommended."

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Indian man (4): Condemning and not recommending is a different thing. It is not condemned.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, mām ekam.

Indian man (4): You have come to our narrow path now. When people divide (indistinct). Because those days were different. When people were (indistinct) on stones.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I cannot... A chaste woman, you cannot divide her. She must stick to one husband.

Indian man (4): No, in his time, people were Vaiṣṇavas...

Prabhupāda: You cannot, she cannot say, "I can accept as many husband as required." That is not good.

Indian man (4): Two hundred years before. Two hundred years before. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...as you worship Durgā, then you have to sacrifice goat.

Indian man (4): Ah?

Prabhupāda: As soon as you worship Durgā...

Indian man (4): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Whatever.

Indian man (4): Durgā, Śiva, Gaṇapati one family.

Prabhupāda: So as soon as you worship Durgā you have to follow the rules, you have to make goat sacrifice...

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda:

yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā
sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ
harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā
mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ
(SB 5.18.12)

yasya—anyone; asti—one, anyone who has; bhagavati—in the Supreme Personality of Godhead; akiñcanā-bhakti—unalloyed devotion, faith; sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ—with all the good qualities of the demigods, he is bestowed upon.

Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ: If one is not a devotee of the Lord, he has no good qualification. He cannot possess any good qualification. Why? Mano-rathena. He is simply hovering on the mental plane. Therefore mind's business is to accept and reject. There cannot be any permanent thing. So one has to transcend above the plane of mind and fixed up in the spiritual platform. Then he can have all the good qualities.

So at the present moment, the godless civilization... Therefore the leaders, they do not know how to lead people so that they may become happy. It is the duty of the leader, government, father, teacher, gurus, to see that the subordinates are very, very happy. We find in the history of Mahābhārata that during the time of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira people were not suffering even from excessive heat or cold or any anxiety. So it is the duty of the leaders of the people and the government to see that the citizens are perfectly happy in their occupational duties and they are advancing in spiritual knowledge, because human life is not to live a polished animal life. That is not human life.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Who?

Pañcadraviḍa: These Bible and Koran, how did they get here? They were just inventions or what?

Prabhupāda: Convention means they are partially good for the time being, that's all. They are not eternally... Just like in the Bible it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." (chuckles) But this is not, does not come within the category of eternal religion. People were so corrupted that they were forbidden, "No, don't do this." "Thou shalt not covet," a little moral instruction. That also, they could not follow. There is no religion. And little God consciousness, "There is God, kingdom of God," little idea for the persons who could understand. Otherwise, do you think that if somebody says, "Thou shalt not kill," is that any religious principle? It is ordinary thing. Where is the question of God?

Pañcadraviḍa: These things, they are also in (sic:) Manu-saṁhitā?

Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are all śūdras. Not will be. All, everyone is śūdras. This movement is to promote the śūdras to the highest class, Vaiṣṇava, more than brāhmaṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Everyone is rascal, śūdra. (break) ...śūdras should be elevated, elevated, but when even a śūdra is engaged in the service of the Lord, he becomes transcendental, above brāhmaṇa. (break)

Akṣayānanda: It said that eight people were shot in Aurangabad with student riots, and the police got their guns and they started to shoot all the people. The same thing is happening in Gaya. The students are protesting against this and that. It said that they were protesting against degradation.

Prabhupāda: Degradation?

Akṣayānanda: Yes. That is supposed to be the reason for their rebellion. They are protesting against corruption and degradation.

Prabhupāda: But the rascals, why they themselves do not, be not reformed? Protesting against degradation. Why you are degraded? What is that protest? You are degraded. You reform yourself. That they will not do. Protest against degradation. Are you not degraded? Are you pure? So what is the use of protesting? You reform yourself. They can protest in this way that our guardians, our government, they have degraded ourselves. But that's all right. But guardian is a fool, your father is a fool. But why you are remaining as a fool? That they will not an... If we say, "Now you come to us. We shall raise you from degradation," that they will not do. That they will not agree. Now go to them, all these students, that "You are thinking that you are degraded. So why you should be, mean dog...? Come on, we shall reform you. We shall give you the highest post, brahminical post. Give up these four principles." That they will not do. Will they do?

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is on rāga stage. One must have passed the sādhana stage, neophyte stage, and, means, regulative principles.

Girirāja: "Those who are simply attracted to temple worship but do not know the philosophy of bhakti are in the neophyte stage." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...still India's spiritual culture, that people were not trained up in the bhakti science; simply they go to the temple, "dung, dung, dung." (makes sound of bell-ringing) That's all. That has finished.

Dr. Patel: Bhakti is practiced more in south.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: In the south there is...

Prabhupāda: No, everywhere. Everywhere. They do not know. In the temple there is no discussion scientifically about Kṛṣṇa or anything. You see? (Hindi)

Room Conversation with Catholic Cardinal and Secretary to the Pope -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: That was our festival. The Bhāgavata-dharma discourses.

Bhagavān: We had a festival program in India. We've had one in Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, and for one week, and Srila Prabhupāda has spoken many times every night there. There's been thousands of people, ten thousand people.

Monsignor Verrozano: Yes, yes. And just last year about the 20th of January, it was this week of festivals also, this conscience of preaching sermons, many manifestations. Many people attended, and I too visited this, yes, also.

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta also we had such functions. About thirty thousand people were coming in Bombay.

Monsignor Verrozano: Could you be so kind to say to us something about your movement which is spread in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our movement is that, that is first-class religious system which teaches how to love God. This is the sum and substance of our movement. There is a Sanskrit statement in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: They think it's so horrible to eat another person, but...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.

Karandhara: Just recently India exploded an atomic bomb, and now Pakistan is hurrying to get an atomic bomb also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on.

Guru-gaurāṅga: The government promised it would be only for peaceful purposes.

Prabhupāda: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition. Actually peaceful condition is described in the Bhagavad-gītā,

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
(BG 5.29)

This is peace. Unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, where is the peacefulness? There cannot be. All rascaldom. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These rascals and fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ, lost of all knowledge—how there can be peace? It is all useless. What is this?

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is God. He is God. They don't accept Buddha as incarnation of God. But from Vedas we understand that He is incarnation of God.

Prof. Regamay: But he brought to the world the ahiṁsā, but I think ahiṁsā appears already in the Bhagavad-gītā. But there was ahiṁsā also by the Jains.

Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence...

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: There's a story about that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Viśvāmitra. How they exist in that open, and there was snow. For eating they... Eighteen days?

Yogeśvara: The plane crashed. Half the people were killed. So the other people, two of them left to go find help. They went to find out some people they could telephone or something. It took them eighteen days to find a house. So the other people, they all stayed close together inside the airplanes. They put on blankets and their coats. But there was no... They could not go outside. There was no food.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They had... At first they had little chocolate and they rationed it out that "You get a little bit of chocolate," and little bit of liquid they had. And so they rationed it out until that was finished. Then they took a vote amongst themselves. "Well, what shall we do? Shall we eat human flesh or shall we simply starve to death?" So they voted amongst themselves that "Yes, we should do this." There were some men, one or two, that would not do it and they died. They refused to do it, and they died. Others, they did.

Yogeśvara: They made some... Afterwards they had to... There was some discussion, some philosophy. They were actually discussing. And there was one person there who was explaining to the others that "We must eat this flesh to stay alive but it's not so wrong since the soul has left the body." He said, "The spirit has left these bodies, so you shouldn't consider it to be quite so bad. We're obliged to do this."

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to... He was comparing that the mass of people, they take to Ramakrishna. That I have proved. They're not, the mass of people, not at all interested... That I have proved. That is my answer. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said he was not saying that thousands of people were following Ramakrishna...

Prabhupāda: What is the mass of people mean?

Yogeśvara: He says Ramakrishna, whether he knew it or not, he was expressing a sentiment of the people at that time.

Prabhupāda: At that time. That is finished. So that is not permanent settlement. But Kṛṣṇa's, Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, supremacy, at least for the last five thousand years, is intact. Now, he says Aurobindo, Gandhi, Ramakrishna. They're all gone. They came and gone. But Kṛṣṇa philosophy is truth, and it is standing, and it will go on standing. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says it's not the person important in this example. It's the idea they was expressing, all from five thousand years. The same idea was there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, same idea. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: (SB 1.3.28) "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." That idea is accepted.

Karandhara: No, he's saying that Aurobindo and Ramakrishna expressed that same idea in contemporary language in their own time.

Prabhupāda: So that existed temporarily. Now it is gone. That will not appeal. (French)

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: In the world today it seems as if, just like men take advantage of women and make them topless and bottomless, also they try and encourage people like this to be leaders of religion. That way the mass of people don't take any real interest. They do this in Russia too. They kill the sincere religious leaders, and they put their own men as religious leader, and it just sort of undermines the whole purity and the importance in the instruction, and then no one repeats it.

Karandhara: In the West also, in the past ten years there's been a resurgence of what's called fundamentalism. For so long the Christian liturgy, the Christian doctrine, got so hodge-podge and so wishy-washy that people were leaving because there was simply nothing there solid for them to grasp onto. Now fundamentalism, or the very basic principles that God is the Almighty and that we are sinners and if we don't repent, God's going to strike us down with wrath and anger, that basic principle of fear of God, that is receiving new support. Many people are coming back to that because even though it's a very vague thing, still it's something definite. "God is there, and if I do something wrong, He's going to cut me down," rather than, "Well, nothing's wrong, nothing's right," it's all hodge-podge, wish wash. People can't grasp onto that. There's nothing for them to...

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda, "nothing wrong, nothing right. Everything is all right," Vivekananda's philosophy.

Bhagavān: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think we'll leave around 7:30, so perhaps you can take a little rest before the engagement.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)

Room Conversation with Professor Oliver La Combe Director of the Sorbonne University -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, little better.

Professor La Combe: Because my last visit there was in 1970 and it was the worst moment. But I hear that it is improving.

Prabhupāda: Improving, yes. Just near that Asiatic Society we held our Hare Kṛṣṇa Festival in front of, I think, the museum.

Professor La Combe: Yes, on Chowringhee.

Prabhupāda: Yes, and it was very successful. Daily, thirty thousand people were assembling.

Professor La Combe: This year?

Prabhupāda: No. (break in tape) ...God conscious. So the leaders suppressing. This is the present position. The leaders are more or less communists, and they are suppressing their natural outflow and that is the position now.

Professor La Combe: But I think that nowadays the situation in Calcutta is better. You would not have the same kind of difficulties this year I suppose.

Prabhupāda: No, it is easier now. In 1970, '69 there was no security. When you go out, there is no security whether you'll come back. Yes. You were at that time there? No.

Devotee: No, I arrived there just after. I arrived in Bombay when that was happening. The Naxalites...

Prabhupāda: Any man walking on the street can be killed. It was the situation.

Devotee: Especially any rich man or politician.

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking with you. You are a representative of Christian kind. So instead of keeping the churches locked up, why not give it us? We shall chant twenty-four hours. Actually this is fact. Many places we have purchased churches. And before our purchasing, the church was practically locked up. Nobody was going. And because nobody was going, therefore it was available for purchase. In London I have seen. Hundreds and thousands of churches are locked up, or they are being used for different purpose. There are many hundreds and thousands churches, but they are not going on. So this experience... In Los Angeles we purchased one church. So it was sold because people were not coming. Now you go to the same church, and the same men, they are coming by thousands. And one Christian preach in Boston, he issued one leaflet that "These boys are our boys. Before accepting this movement, they were never coming to the church. They never inquired about God. And now they are mad after God. How it has happened?" Yesterday the inquiry was "Why the Americans and the Germans are taking to this path?"

Haṁsadūta: "How come it has expanded so quickly?"

Pater Emmanuel: What was your answer?

Prabhupāda: Answer. What the answer?

Umāpati (?): Prabhupāda didn't understand, accepting him in German.

Prabhupāda: No no. The answer I gave, you do not remember?

Umāpati: Because they are intelligent.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava. He is this Vaiṣṇava, that..." No. These are forbidden. Vaiṣṇava is Vaiṣṇava. Spiritual master... They are all transcendental. In... of course, in this country you are introducing new, but in India... Just like we had been at Tirupati, Tirumala. Many thousands of people were coming, and their daily collection is not less than 100,000 rupees. And do you think these people are coming to offer these 100,000 rupees daily to a stone? And the ācāryas established this temple for bluffing these people? Does it mean, their collecting? They do not know the science, rascals. And therefore simply... Sinful life cannot help. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "One who is killer of animal, he cannot understand the spiritual science." Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). This is the statement. Paśughna means the animal killer. Therefore the first prohibition is stop this animal killing. Otherwise, this dull brain will not be able to understand. They are not fit for understanding. Mūḍha, mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina means always engaged in sinful activities. They have got brain but their brain is being utilized only for sinful activities, they are called duṣkṛtina. Kṛtī, kṛtī means good brain, and duṣkṛtī means brain is being utilized for sinful act. Therefore they are mūḍha. In spite of good brain, they are rascals, because brain is being utilized for sinful activities, how to set up up-to-date machinery for killing animals.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Only?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But a... Big, big people were invited and actually he didn't walk. He fell down in the water.

Bali Mardana: Maybe Kṛṣṇa took his power away.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was almost beaten. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: The same thing...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he missed something.

Prabhupāda: So many birds are floating on the sea. Nobody's interested. But one rascal will advertise that "I can walk." They purchase five hundred rupees ticket. (laughter) (pause) People want to see magic.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And if somebody can show magic, then he becomes God.

Jayatīrtha: God is showing so much magic but people don't recognize it.

Prabhupāda: No, this is also magic. But the scientists will say, "Water is combination of this chemical, that chemical." And wherefrom so much chemical came? That is a magic. But that magic he'll not see. Eh? Dr...?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Hṛdayānanda: He said that "I am" is a name of God.

Prabhupāda: God never says like that. Where it is? They must quote some authority. Where it is?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She said in the Bible, when some people were leaving and they said, "Who is sending them?" God said, "Tell them that it is the God of your fathers and that I am."

Prabhupāda: In the Bible it is said? Where it is?

Guest: Exodus, Moses, in Mount Sinai?

Prabhupāda: Anyone knows Bible it is said?

Śrutakīrti: It's in there, yes.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Śrutakīrti: God says, "I am who am."

Prabhupāda: No, God said, "I am," you say, "I am"—that is all right. But God says "I am,"—we can understand God. "I am" means God. But what you are?

Guest: Well, He said, "This is My name, and this is My name forever."

Prabhupāda: He says like that?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, the university?

Doug: In the university? I haven't been with them in a year and a half, but they recently bought a college, and they have part of a college in Santa Barbara, the University of California there. So they're pretty well established educationally. But it's losing its potency actually. I think it's actually reached its peak and left, because when I was with Maharishi also I noticed that it seemed that a lot of his potency seemed to diminish, his charisma, over the years. Seemed to me he'd get more and more depressed if people weren't actually reaching the states that he was talking of. It didn't seem like he was satisfied with the advancement people were making. And certainly he wasn't answering the questions, because all that time I was asking him "What is the highest truth." And when he talked to God I would say, "Who is God?" And we'd ask him, "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" and "What about this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement?" And it was word jugglery. He'd kind of evade our questions and satisfy our elan, but... those questions kept coming up. Somehow he kept us from going into too much detail about it. But eventually... I didn't see him for a few days. This was when I was in the mountains with him, some other people. And we were making up these curriculums for this college program. And he was doing some transcriptions on the Brahma-sūtras, and he came out, and he was in a very solemn mood, and he said... We asked him what he had realized, what truths he had realized from the Brahma-sutras. And he said, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of consciousness." So I left shortly after that. I feel that I could have been chanting all those years, making some progress.

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Doug: What is my age?

Prabhupāda: No, his age.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśodānandana: They were much bigger.

Prabhupāda: You have seen that Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, Kṛṣṇa footprint.

Devotee: That means Kṛṣṇa must have been fifteen or twenty feet tall?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) But it is a fact formerly people were taller. We have seen. In our childhood we have seen, when European, they were very tall.

Devotee: They were taller and they lived longer.

Devotee (2): That story about King Mucukunda when he was sleeping in the cave and he came out of the cave and looked outside and he said, "Oh, it must be Kali-yuga." because the trees were smaller and...

Prabhupāda: Do you (indistinct) ...the mango trees now? Some of the trees (indistinct), the lemon tree, stunted. In Japan they grow many trees.

Devotee: In Japan they cultivate trees to be like that, very small. They have little orange trees. Orange trees are this big, orange trees.

Prabhupāda: They are also becoming oranges. Japanese enjoy.

Haṁsadūta: The Japanese and Chinese are very, very small.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good, just like we also use motorcar, but not for fashion. Suppose if we go for preaching. If we can go by car quickly, we take advantage of the car. We have got many cars for preaching work. So everything is good, provided it is used for progressive goodness. (coughs) That our mistake is that when... Now listen, there is the mistake in Darwin's theory also. He has no information that the evolution is taking place, of the body, by the desire of the soul. That he does not know. Just like sometimes people were happy and living in a small cottage. Now they are making big, big skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The cottage and this... The cottage is not becoming the skyscraper building but the man who was living in the cottage, by his desire the skyscraper building is coming. Similarly the evolution means the soul within the body desires a certain type of body and he gets it. Not that the monkey body has developed into human body.

But the soul within the monkey's body desired a human body, and he has got it. This is the process of evolution. The Darwin's theory, this knowledge is lacking. If he is thinking that the cottage has become big skyscraper building, that is not the fact. The owner of the cottage desired to have a skyscraper building, therefore he, from the cottage he transferred to the skyscraper building. It is due to the owners.

Journalist: In that case, if we go on developing, we stay in the skyscraper, or the skyscraper gets bigger.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The skyscraper is not impediment, it is not impediment. If you remain in the skyscraper and develop your spiritual consciousness, you can do that. But the unfortunate thing is that we are too much absorbed in constructing the skyscraper building, forgetting our real business. That is the defect.

Journalist: What about sex and drugs, sex and alcohol.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: So this is not very ordinary thing. Pāpam, sinful life... At the present moment people are very, very much addicted to sinful life.

Dr. Copeland: Why?

Prabhupāda: Because they are less intelligent; therefore they don't care for death even. Neither they have got any idea what is going to happen after death. Formerly, people were afraid of committing sin. They knew that "After death, I will have to suffer." Now, at the present moment, the rascals are so daring, they do not care what is sin, what is going to happen next life. They do not care. That means less intelligent.

Dr. Copeland: What's going to happen to you in the next life?

Prabhupāda: My life? According to śāstra, if we have actually developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are going to Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Copeland: And you are...

Prabhupāda: I may not, but they will go. (laughter) And even it is a failure, then the next life he is guaranteed human life and very nice life. You find out this verse, śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, that is... That was... About hundred years ago Vivekananda came, and he stayed in New York, but these people... When I came, I asked, "What is...? Do you know Vivekananda?" They said, "No, we do not know." I had to find out, search out, where is Vivekananda's center. It was not very prominent. Nobody was going. So for hundred years they worked, this Ramakrishna Mission. They could not establish even half a dozen centers in America. And I established forty centers within six years. And in each center there is devotees not less than twenty-five, up to 225. In Los Angeles we purchased one church. The church was sold because nobody was coming. And since we have taken... If you sometimes go to Los Angeles, you will see it is packed always. The same people, the same church—why it is packed now? And why it was sold without any attendance? What is the difference? I have not brought these men from India; neither I brought that church from India. The church was there, and these people were there.

Before this movement, they were not going there, and now they have packed up. So what is your judgment?

Dr. Copeland: Well, when I first came in, I asked you why were you so successful, and you said, "I don't know how you measure success," and now you're measuring success by numbers, and that's not fair. That's not logical.

Prabhupāda: No, my standard of success is little different. Of course, this is success. Everyone is saying I am successful. So it is not unsuccessful. But my standard of success is little different. So even if it not fully successful, still, the results are there.

Dr. Copeland: Ah, fair enough.

Prabhupāda: That is called payi-nukuta-nyāya.(?) And when I find full successful, just imagine what is that. This is partial success.

Dr. Copeland: (laughing) That's called "touche."

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but he saved them. He saved them.

Guest 3: Now wait a minute. I want to get this thing straight, if I may. One boy was charged. Now, I don't care what happened or where the flowers came from. I was told and I believe that that particular boy was not involved. Now, someone else may have been. But as far as I was concerned, I believed that the boy that they got was not involved himself. Now, I'm not saying that some other people were not involved. But I think that that particular boy, I am satisfied... Do you agree with this, Wally?

Guest 1: Yeah, but even if you had been told that that boy did it, your job would have been to...

Guest 3: If they say that boy... If I was told, "Look, that boy did it," then the case would have been done completely differently because then you can't then go around and say, "Look, he didn't do it." So it's a different approach, different approach altogether you see. But as far as... I just wanted to get that thing straight, as far as that particular boy. But according to the law in here, we have to operate within our law. Now, true it is that outside of it, you have got the question of God's law. But I'm not that kind of lawyer. I'm not involved with God's law.

Prabhupāda: No, I... I know that. That is not...

Guest 3: I can only operate with the tools that I have.

Guest 1: But even if you are a church, if you are a church-goer it makes it very interesting because you're subject to that church law.

Guest 3:. Well, I'm a church-going person.

Guest 1: What happens in the situation where somebody has committed a murder?

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Not just reading the books but there also must be chanting and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will turn your America as Vaikuṇṭha. And that is your duty, to save your countrymen. I think the America is... The people were pious in their past life. They have got this opulent position. Now they should use this opulent position. They have no poverty. They haven't got to work so hard, and they take advantage of this knowledge. Other countries, they are poor. They are busy how to earn their livelihood. But your country, because you are favored on account of your previous pious activities, you should utilize this position. People are embarrassed for improving their economic condition in other countries. Of course, if one is cultured, he is not embarrassed in any condition of life. But without Kṛṣṇa culture, poverty-stricken people, they are very much hampered. So you have no such problem. Therefore you can utilize your position, this opulent position, for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As a learned scholar you should advocate this cause. Why should you waste your time in sense gratification? That is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs. Why this life? That is also... We have described in the Fifth Canto, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). For simply to satisfy the senses, why you should make such a gorgeous program for working? The sense gratification is enjoyed even by the hogs, the stool-eater. This particular animal is mentioned because they are gratifying senses without any discrimination. You will find the hogs eating stool, and they are with mothers and sister and have sex life, that's all. They have no discrimination. So this kind of sense gratification is there in the hog's life. So are the human beings to imitate the hog's life? This is the question. So they are imitating the hog's life, all the human being. This is the defect. Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Working so hard day and night, and only sex, that's all. This is life's enjoyment? This is a hog's life. And what else they have got happiness? We challenge them, "Except this happiness of sex, what other happiness you have got?" There is no answer. So this is being done by the hogs. Whole day and night they are searching after, "Where is stool? Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon he gets the stool and they have sex, that's all. Is that civilization, hog's life? And what is civilization? That is tapo divyam: "Just undergo austerities for realizing God."

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You charge, "Why you are chanting?" (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...day he stands behind us for two hours to three hours of kīrtana. He's becoming one of our men now. (laughter) (break)

Revatīnandana: ...used to do that but he never came around. He used to be out there every day in Los Angeles for years.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Prabhupāda? The father of the H-bomb, the man who developed the H-bomb, he retired a week ago, and he said he was very sad that the young people were becoming disgusted with science nowadays, and all the young scientists, they are not as good as the old scientists. They have no desire any more really.

Revatīnandana: Edward Teller?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. Teller retired.

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Dharmādhyakṣa: His name is Edward Teller.

Prabhupāda: So what he is?

Revatīnandana: He's famous for inventing the H-bomb. He invented the hydrogen bomb.

Revatīnandana: Hydrogen bomb. He was the main inventor.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.

Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mrs. Wax: ...some young people were attracted to the message and responded and joined Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Is there a special reason? What explanation do you have why some...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The special reason was... That was published in one paper, Voice East. What is that?

Devotees: Village Voice.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They wrote a very big article that "We thought God is dead but Swamiji has brought God in his kīrtana." They wrote this article. They found God's presence in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This Brahmānanda, he was attracted first.

Mrs. Wax: The first one?

Brahmānanda: One of the first ones.

Mrs. Wax: Really?

Prabhupāda: His photo was published in New York Times, dancing. He and another boy... (laughter) Yes. He and another boy, Acyutānanda—he is now in India; he is also sannyāsī—these two boys were dancing hand to hand, and this was published in New York Times.

Mrs. Wax: What I'm asking is why could he understand?

Morning Walk -- July 6, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Oh? (break) ...walk?

Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: Yes, everyone likes to go out and walk around on it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ice skating. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...was seeing in that paper, the meeting, a photograph of Jaya Prakash Narayana and Mrs. Gandhi. Both of the meetings were overcrowded. So who is right and who is wrong? People were hearings in throngs both of them. So? Who is wrong, who is right? (break)

Brahmānanda: ...newspaper report here was that the crowds who came to cheer Indira Gandhi that they were paid, paid crowds. They would pay them one rupee each.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? (laughter) Yes. That is for car or...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Car, yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...any bird called thunderbird?

Bahulāśva: Thunderbird? A big bird, big eagle, in the United States.

Prabhupāda: No, big eagle, thunderbird. You have seen in this car?

Brahmānanda: Automobile is called.

Prabhupāda: But actually is there any bird called thunderbird?

Jagadīśa: It's a legendary bird from Indian legend. American Indian.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: In this tower they had to put glass so the students wouldn't jump out. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Ohh! Just see.

Yadubara: In 1963 they had... I think they put these things up, but so many people were committing suicide by jumping.

Prabhupāda: Why they were committing suicide?

Yadubara: Because everyone was very depressed. This is supposed to be enlightenment, a place of knowledge. But everyone was very depressed.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Being taught that they are the body. I went to a Catholic university and they taught me in psychology, and it was a priest. And they were teaching this, that I am a bodily process. And he never challenged the textbook. So when one thinks he's the body and if he's intelligent, a very depressing thought. Even in the Catholic universities they use these textbooks that teach this materialism.

Prabhupāda: Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ: (SB 7.5.31) "Blind man is leading other blind men."

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when the jīva soul desires to enter the material world, is that an illusory desire?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Desire means he wants to enjoy, but he is not enjoyer. When he comes to enjoy, he becomes servant. That is illusion.

Dharmādhyakṣa: So when the jīva soul descends into the material world, it is like a hallucination?

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Dharmādhyakṣa: This inventor of the hydrogen bomb, he said he had no regrets about making the bomb. He had no regrets about his career whatsoever. And he felt that science was still the answer to man's problems. That's why he was lamenting so much that people were not interested anymore.

Prabhupāda: So what is the problem? Real problem is birth, death. So have you any proposal?

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, he has no proposal for those.

Prabhupāda: Then what is this nonsense problem? So far eating, sleeping, even the birds and beasts, they have no problem. They are eating, sleeping. What is this problem in eating, sleeping and mating? There is no problem. Why you are creating problem? You are creating problem, rascal. There is no problem. Where is the... Out of 8,400,000 species, only men are 400,000. Eight million they are all lower animals. Where is their problem? They have no population problem, they have no food problem, no quarter problem. They do not go to office, they do not start factories. So where is their problem? Eight millions, they have no problem. And out of the 400,000, the so-called rascal civilized men, they have problems. Others they have no problem. They don't require a scientist rascal like you. (laughter) This is the... Tell them like this. If you take vox populi, so out of eight million four hundred, eight millions do not require a rascal like you. And out of the so-called civilized men, a few only, they require your service. So what is the value of your service? Others, they have no problem. Do you think they have problem, the birds and beasts? They are very freely walking from one tree to another and eating. Whatever fruits are there, they are eating. And the for mating, the female bird is always with him. Nature has given, when the birth is taken place, one male, one female, cats, dogs and birds. So there is no problem. Is there any problem?

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is the betterment?

Jagannātha-suta: "Yes, because years ago people would have to go out in the cold and chop a tree to get wood for fire. Now they simply turn the stove, and the fire is there."

Prabhupāda: That you say, that the wood was there and people were taking. You do not know. You are so foolish. The woods were there already and people were there. They were taking advantage.

Jagannātha-suta: "Yeah, we've arranged it in such a way. Now it's easier for us to carry on our daily lives by adjusting things like this. Where it comes from. It's already there. We admit it's there. Where it comes from, it's not so important."

Prabhupāda: They used to create fire by mantra. Can you do that?

Brahmānanda: They need natural gas, and the natural gas is running out.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhā-vallabha: We don't believe in these mantras because there's no fossils.

Prabhupāda: I don't believe you also. Who believes, you? Some rascals may believe.

Rādhā-vallabha: There's so much evidence, though. We have fossils.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have also evidence. If you don't believe me, who is going to believe you? (break)

Rādhā-vallabha: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, where Darwin actually admitted that there was a creator.

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian Man (2): How can we spread the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: If we go village to village. The village people are still pure, at least not so polluted as the town people, or especially the so-called educated. (break) ...hari-kīrtana koro... (Bengali) We held this hari-kīrtana in Delhi, Calcutta, Bombay. Oh, at least fifteen to thirty thousand people were daily... Even from the office with coats and pants, they are dancing. And they asked me, "Swamiji, continue it." (break)

Indian Man (2): I traveled all over India so many years, place to place, but I found the Gujarati is one of the best where the people have there some natural-born Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's fact. Everywhere—Gujaratis, Marwaris, Punjabis—more or less, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there. (break)

Indian Man (2): I ask you one question. What is the future of India regarding the Kṛṣṇa consciousness? The people are so much demonic. It every time bothers me, day and night, that what will happen? The people don't have respect for the olders. They just harass. I was with my wife too, and I found the... We talk about the Kṛṣṇa, and they just laugh. They say, "There is nothing like that." They made so much fun, the young generation, that "You are a modern boy, and you are believing in that?" Just I found. I can't understand that how we can change over to the Indian future about Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: If we preach, it will be all right. That is going on perpetually, darkness and light. If you bring light, darkness will go out, will be driven away.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.

Vāsughoṣa: Many people were... On the way to... Even on the way to here...

Prabhupāda: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." Yathā mat tathā path: "Whatever ways you manufacture by concoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says, "No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.

Brahmānanda: Because that means no surrender. To surrender anywhere...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: ...means no surrender.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Then they're satisfied.

Vāsughoṣa: Many people say, "We have to do our karma." They are telling me, "Do your duty."

Prabhupāda: This is the duty: you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is the only duty.

Vāsughoṣa: They say their family, their wife, their job, their children, all these things.

Morning Walk -- September 27, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: In Hindi?

Kartikeya: For more than one hour.

Harikeśa: In Hindi?

Kartikeya: Yes. One hour he spoke. About ten percent English words, twenty-five percent Sanskrit, and rest in Hindi.

Devotee (1): He spoke very nice.

Kartikeya: People were very happy, and they could understand.

Prabhupāda: Philosophy was presented nice?

Madhudviṣa: Yes. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: You spoke? No.

Madhudviṣa: I spoke also, ten, fifteen minutes in the beginning. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (break) (Hindi) ...kīrtana viṣṇoḥ, about Viṣṇu, not nonsense. (break) ...speak in Hindi, they will hear more.

Kartikeya: Yes, they like it.

Prabhupāda: You cannot speak Hindi?

Girirāja: I can't give discourses.

Kartikeya: (Hindi)

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not car...

Dr. Patel: Car-dharma is that.

Prabhupāda: That is material dharma.

Dr. Patel: This is Kali-yuga, going on.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga, it is excessive, but this is going on. Even... Maybe in Satya-yuga it was less.

Dr. Patel: Maybe nothing, perhaps, the first Satya-yuga. People were all saints.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But they are fools. They should have kept more on the side of it.

Prabhupāda: It is now in the middle of the street.

Dr. Patel: The government of this country is going on everywhere.

Prabhupāda: We have nothing to do. We are world, but it is in the middle of the street.

Dr. Patel: I have got a killa. (?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has dignified.

Dr. Patel: They ought to thicken wall with a little under because this kaccā wall foundation is there. They should make it... This wall. They should dress it up, the foundation, which is above. No? You are going away today?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (end)

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Progress, yes. The progress is that they have got motorcar, and they have progressed how to die quickly. This is the progress. At any moment he can die. As soon as he on the car, 70 miles speed, that means taking the risk of dying at any moment. This is the progress. Formerly people were going in bullock cart or horse carriage from one village to another. "That was primitive. Now we can go hundred miles away from home for earning money and taking risk to die at any moment. That is progress." Is it not?

Brahmānanda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Formerly they were satisfied by tilling the ground, getting food grains. Now they have started factories. At the cost of thousands of men's labor, some director is getting money and enjoying life. That is progress. And these rascals, laborers, they are thinking that "These men are getting the profit, cream of this business. We are working. Why not take ourself?" That is Communism.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is one small coal mining town we did saṅkīrtana at, an Indian community. And they were thinking that "The coal mine is doing everything for us. They're giving us schools, they're giving us medicine, they're giving us... Without the coal mine where would we be?"

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Here they think it's sugarcane. The sugarcane is everything.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So if you start a good center I will stay and see that things are going on. (aside:) Just take this stick.

Indian man (3): Then I could... I think we would be able to benefit from you much more. See, your arrival in this period in Durban, with so many functions that we are carrying on today in this whole week, that people were sort of distributed and quite a lot of them were unable to even come to your meetings.

Prabhupāda: Oh. No, our meetings were well attended.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have had full house all the time.

Indian man (3): Yes, I know your house, but you could have had even more than full house.

Indian man (1): There are about four hundred thousand Indians alone here.

Indian man (3): Yes. The reason of that Navaratri festival, these Ārya samājīs they have had, well in advance. They had their celebrations and all, so a lot of people were unable to come. Do you think it will be possible for you to come back to Durban from Johannesburg, after your Johannesburg stay?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I can come back. There is no harm. (break)

Indian man (3): And when you have these āśramas and all, and how to serve the poor people in the way of welfare?

Prabhupāda: Give them prasāda. Give them prasāda. We are giving two thousand, three thousand men each center, prasādam.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Harikeśa: So the Āyur-Veda possibly can work nowadays.

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Harikeśa: Some people were telling me that the herbs had lost all their effectiveness in the Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Then die. (laughter) Do you mean to say this modern medical treatment is guarantee for your living?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? That is also not guarantee. If you see the herbs and plants are no more effective, then if there is no guarantee in your modern medical, there is no guarantee. So why should you spend so much money? As soon as I go to a doctor, immediately twenty dollars. As soon as go to purchase some drugs, immediately twenty. If I have no money... And still that is not guarantee, so why shall I spend so much money?

Harikeśa: So actually this money doesn't even exist in Vedic society—money.

Prabhupāda: Money is not required. You require things. Just like instead of money, you are getting papers. Money means gold. Where is gold? You are cheated. Money means gold. So instead of possessing gold, you are possessing some paper, written there, "hundred dollars." And you are such a fool, you are satisfied. You are being cheated. Bank's check and currency notes, you keep it in your..., "Oh, here is my money." Is that money? Just see.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Exploit their own people.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Formerly the Manchester people were exploiting Indians. Now the Ahmedabad people, they have learned how to exploit. That's all. And government is satisfied because they pay tax. "Never mind. The workers may suffer, go on suffering." This is going on. And they have lost their own culture, and they have been taught how to drink, how to eat meat. This is... (break) ...fact is that Indians cannot work so hard as the Western people can work. The climate does not allow. India's climate is good for peaceful living, less work, and brain engaged in spiritual advancement. That is India's gift. They are not meant for hard work. Hard work is not required for anyone. This is animal civilization, to work very hard. Then what is the difference between animal and man? A man has to work so hard like animal; then what is the difference? Here in the Western countries their climate is also suitable, and they are taught to work very hard like animals. And they do that. Therefore materially they become so-called prosperous for committing suicide. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is true.

Prabhupāda: And materially advanced for committing suicide. Am I right or wrong?

Devotee (1): Right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one wants to increase the material standard of living, then they should increase also sex life. And this is what they are doing in India today.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: What was the truth?

Indian man (1): There was discriminatory laws against the Indians, trying to let them carry certain documents to identify that they are foreigners and all that type of things, not allowed to go in certain places where other people were allowed to go, and all those kind of laws, discriminatory laws, especially for the Indians. So he fought against them for the truth that everybody is equal in the eyes of God.

Prabhupāda: So? But it was not successful.

Indian man (1): Partly it was, because then they had to listen to him, what actually the grievances were. First they were not prepared to talk to him. They didn't want him to know anything. Then they compromised, and from then onwards.... Still it has been carried on up to now. The laws are there for the Indians.

Prabhupāda: Still the Indians have no equal right.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not allowed to vote here even, or have any representatives in Parliament.

Indian man (1): No, nothing whatsoever. They are grouped up. Especially now within these couple of years. Before there was living in town and all that, but now they are grouped up in their own areas, not supposed to live in town anymore.

Prabhupāda: The Indians are driven away.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And after resurrection he had to go away to India.

Cyavana: Yes. That's 'cause they tried to kill him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because if he had declared that "I am not dead," perhaps he would have been again crucified.

Cyavana: Yes. They would keep trying to kill him.

Prabhupāda: Because the people were so intelligent, they would not believe him, so out of fear he went away. "All right, stop my preaching. Come on. (laughs) Let me go to find some safe place." (laughter)

Cyavana: He created a great impression on the minds of men for many, many generations.

Prabhupāda: Imperson?

Cyavana: Impression.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Impression.

Cyavana: Yes. By his preaching he left a strong impression.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: Christianity.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's like the flowery words of the Vedas, flowery words of the Vedas, mostly simply dealing with moral principles.

Prabhupāda: That also broken. He said, "Thou shall not kill." They broke it.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: First of all be engaged yourself. Then they will see the example and they'll join. Just like in our New Vrindaban. Other men from other farms, they are coming, and they are offered this milk preparation, burfi, sandeṣa, rasagullā, rabri, so many, halavā. They become: "Oh, so many nice things can be prepared from milk?" They do not know, uncivilized. Cut the animal and eat. A most crude civilization. When people were not civilized, they used to do that. Civilization means you know, you must know how to live very nicely. That is civilization. But they do not know even that. Simply eating meat and wine, meat and wine, that's all. And this is going on as civilization. They do not know what is the meaning of civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Real civilization means to understand God. Here is God. Who'll accept, either you say God or nature, that "You are under control. You are not free."? That, this dog's obstinacy, they will not take it. Like a dog. What is the meaning of dog obstinacy? He'll go on disturbing, "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" This is dog consciousness. How they can refuse, that "There is no authority"? They say, "No, we don't care for authority. Don't." But you are being kicked every moment: still, there is no authority? Just see obstinacy. Why you are becoming old? Every moment you are being kicked. You cannot remain young. You are trying to remain young with pomade, with some color, with some this, tea, wig, and... But you cannot, rascal. You cannot. You must become old. And still, he is thinking that he'll be able to remain young. This is called dog's obstinacy. He has got experience that nobody can remain young. I'll also not remain young also, although I want it, "Yes, if I can remain young, that is good facility." That he knows, but he won't find the way how he can remain... Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Nitya. That path he will not take. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the way." Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam adyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanam (Bs. 5.33). Kṛṣṇa, the oldest man, oldest living being, but nava-yauvana, always fresh, young... You can get that position.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...given by God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam. You have no intelligence even, so that is given by God. (Hindi) Let them become devotees. Why these old men, they are not coming? They are still after money? Amara ajñaya guru hana tara ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128), Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. So you have come to this country. Do something good for these Africans. Let them become devotee. Where is that attempt? The white men, they also came to exploit them, and you have also come to exploit them. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "No-para upakara." Upakara kara. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... They are not so advanced; make them advanced. That is real cooperation. (Hindi) (break) Just like every one of them is attached to remain in Africa, continuing to... But they are being forcefully driven away: "Go away." Attachment must be there. The Englishmen, they have got attachment, but they were forcefully driven away. Similarly, this conditioned soul, he has got attachment. And śāstra and śāstra... These people were driven away by śāstra,, by weapon, knife. That is śāstra. And śāstra is the same thing, but it is books. Therefore it is called śāstra. The original word is coming from śās. Sas means ruling, śās-dhātu. Śāstra, śāstra, śāsana, śisya. Śisya. Śisya means voluntarily accepting ruling. That is called śisya. The word is the same, śās. From śās, śisya. From śās, śāstra. From śās, śāstra. From śās, śāsana. These are. So sometimes by force, sometimes by voluntarily... So just like guru-śisya. The guru, he gives enlightenment, and śisya voluntarily accepts. That is guru-śisya. Similarly śāstra means weapon: "If you don't follow, then I shall cut your throat." Similarly śāstra. So śāstra says that "Now you must leave your family life." That is called vānaprastha. So that is not being carried out, although the śāstra injunction is there. Brahmacari, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So brahmacārī is the beginning of life, how to become controlled life. Then he is allowed the concession for sense gratification. This is gṛhastha. Then śāstra says, "Now you have done up to fifty years. Now get out." But nobody is following. They are not prepared to get out unless death forces to get out. That Kṛṣṇa does. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). He is not willing. He has got attachment.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then there is no professional driver?

Mahāṁsa: Well, now we are going to hire one driver to take care of the bulls. And secondly, even the axle of the cart was a little defective. Otherwise the program was a great success.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is success. People were coming.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. And one person came to the temple in Hyderabad and met me. He said that "After your devotees had a program in our village, the farmers in the evening they were coming and doing kīrtana instead of just..." Previously they were not doing anything, but now they are coming after farming. In the evening they are collecting and they are doing kīrtana together.

Prabhupāda: Just see how quickly there will be response. Therefore I was insisting, "Go village to village, town to town." Caitanya Mahāprabhu's prediction, pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi.

Mahāṁsa: Grāma, yes.

Prabhupāda: So it will never be foiled. Let us now begin village to village.

Mahāṁsa: People in the villages, they are innocent, but they have been infected with so many vices. They are all drinking toddy every day.

Prabhupāda: They'll... If they chant, they will forget it.

Mahāṁsa: Yes. And the government is pushing toddy sales because they make money on it. They make tax.

Prabhupāda: They want money, that's all.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why did you not, "Do you know English?" (laughter)

Mahāṁsa: So first of all Acyutānanda... I wasn't there, but Acyutānanda and Yaśodānanda said, "No, we don't know much San... A little bit. We don't..." So he quoted, "Sarva dharmān... Do you know that verse?" So they said, "Yes." So he said, "Explain what is the meaning of that verse." He started the whole conversation. We didn't want to get into any philosophical argument. So they started explaining what is the meaning, one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa. And then it went on, who is Kṛṣṇa. And then finally Acyutānanda and Yaśodānanda were quoting so many ślokas that they were completely baffled, and the whole crowd that was there, they were appreciating, and we were defeating them. By every śloka we were defeating them, and they were completely baffled. Ultimately he said—he could not fight back—so he said, "Swamiji, you are right," and he wanted to close the whole conversation because the people were gaining our side. They were being convinced by our ślokas.

Prabhupāda: This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Mahāṁsa: They were completely shocked that they knew so many Sanskrit ślokas from so many different scriptures.

Prabhupāda: The Western learned circle, they are admitting that the greatest contribution of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is these authentic translation of Vedic literature. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...people engage in academic kalākendra, and the price of rice is rising. No rice. Rice kalā. "My dear kalākendra, can you supply me rice?" "No." (laughter)

Tejās: In Bombay, even if any businessman brings more than five kgs of rice, they will seize him. They search the baggage many times in the trains at the station.

Prabhupāda: You see. This is the kalākendra.

Haṁsadūta: There was a political cartoon that people were shouting for food to Indira Gandhi, and the minister was saying, "The people want food." And she said, "But tomorrow we're going to have television."

Prabhupāda: Television. Kalākendra. (break) ...kalākendra? This big house.

Harikeśa: Rabindra...

Prabhupāda: Rabindranath. Oh, he is the foremost kalā, Rabindranath Tagore. He has shown biggest kalā to the people of India.

Devotee (1): Aurobindo kalākendra.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo kalā.

Devotee (1): Very big. He spent a lot of money for that Victoria House.

Prabhupāda: But nobody is coming there, here or there. They have big, big Rabindra kalā and nobody is trying to taste it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When they have programs, a lot of people come.

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice. The king, you can take twenty-five mounds. That is my obligation." And king is also satisfied. By distributing that grain, he maintains the whole government. The real difficulty is all these rascals, they are not sufficiently educated. They are mūḍhas. And they are trying to solve the problems. That is not possible. That is andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are bound up. They're making adjustment, but.... Just like Gandhi. For making adjustment, all of a sudden a man came, (makes sound like gun) khat. Finished. Kennedy was making some adjustment. Somebody came and killed him. It is like that. What is the value of your adjustments? It will be finished after some days. Therefore the Russians, they support revolution. They said, "It is necessary." They admit the imperfectness. And occasional revolution makes it perfect. This is their idea of perfection. But they do not inquire that "What is that supreme power which makes our ideas of perfection imperfect?" These rascals, they do not never, do not ever inquire, "What is that power which forces to make our attempt frustrated, spoil, and make it imperfect?" What do they say about this?

Page Title:People were... (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:24 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=80, Let=0
No. of Quotes:80