Prabhupāda: Same way, we, because we like this, to enjoy this material world; therefore we have to accept a material body.
Indian man: No, no. But you said that we have to search after that soul and that is a group service you are undertaking. But what's the way to do it?
Prabhupāda: What... That we are teaching. You become our student. You'll learn. (laughter)
Indian man: Teach us what is the actually ultimate object of life...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: ...peace or knowledge? Is knowledge sufficient to cause peace, or we must find out some matter first some way? Anyway, without knowledge, whether peace can be had, without knowledge?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you have got right knowledge, then you have peace. And because you do not have right knowledge, you do not have peace. Peace is dependent on right knowledge. The right knowledge is, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā,
- bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
- sarva-loka-maheśvaram
- suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
- jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
- (BG 5.29)
This is the process of attaining peace, śānti. What is that? To understand that God is the proprietor of everything. But that we do not know. We are thinking, "I am the proprietor of everything." This is not knowledge. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ. He is the supreme proprietor and enjoyer, but mistakenly, we are thinking, every one of us thinking, that "I am the enjoyer." And then other point is: bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram. God is the proprietor of places, all planets, all... But we are thinking, "I am, we, Americans, we are proprietor of this portion," "Indians, we are proprietor of this portion." But actually, we are not proprietor. I, I said to Americans several times that "That hundred years ago you were not proprietor of this land. You came, immigrated from Europe. And now, who can say, after two hundred years, who will remain the proprietor? But the land is there." So this temporary proprietorship is also ignorance. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. God is the supreme friend of everyone. He is sitting within the heart. He's trying to advise me, "My dear living entity, you do like this." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo: (BG 15.15) "I am sitting in everyone's heart." Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: "Due to My presence, one can remember, one can forget." Forget also. That is due to the Supersoul. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam. By knowledge—Veda means knowledge—by advancement of knowledge, one should know what is God. That is perfect knowledge. Otherwise, eating, sleeping, mating knowledge is there in the animals. This is not knowledge. You must have perfect knowledge. Then you'll be happy. Then you'll be peace. And if you are misguided, bewildered, mad, then how you can be happy? So this knowledge is obtained, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: after struggling many, many, birth after birth. Bahūnām. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. "One who is actually in knowledge, one who is wise, māṁ prapadyate: he surrenders unto Me." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). When he understands, "Oh, Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa is everything." That mahātmā is very rare. So if you get perfect knowledge, if you surrender to God, then you'll be happy. Otherwise, there is no possibility. You go on, struggling.