Prabhupāda: That is recommended in Vedas, that you follow great authorities. That will take you to the ultimate goal. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So... Kṛṣṇa also recommends in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). This science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness was understood by disciplic succession. Paramparā-prāptam. Imaṁ vivasvavate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: "My dear Arjuna, don't think that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness science I am speaking to you is something new. No." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: (BG 4.1) "It is eternal, and first I spoke to sun-god." Vivasvate. Vivasvān manave prāhuḥ: "And Vivasvān said to his son, Manu." Manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt: "And Manu also transferred this knowledge to his son, Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam: (BG 4.2) "In this way, by disciplic succession, it is coming on." Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa:
Parampara (Conversations 1969 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Hayagrīva: Yes. Do you think it would be a good...
Prabhupāda: If you write something, quotation, from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that should be first. Just like guru-paramparā, when we offer our respect, first our own spiritual master, then his spiritual master, then his spiritual master. In this way. But when putting article, that should be the opposite. First Bhaktivinoda, then Bhaktisiddhānta, then my, then my disciples, like that.
Kīrtanānanda: Why don't you write some purports to that?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kīrtanānanda: To Bhaktisiddhānta's Brahma-saṁhitā. It would be nice if you would write some purports to it.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "Anyone... How one simply by concentrating his mind upon Me," mayy āsakta, "with āsakti..." Āsakti means attachment, love. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ. Mind attached to Kṛṣṇa in love. Yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. And performing the bhakti-yoga, mad-āśrayaḥ, under the disciplinary action by a bona fide spiritual master, mad-āśrayaḥ. Asaṁśayaṁ samagraṁ māṁ: "Then he can understand without any doubt and fully what I am." That means one who has not understood Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he has not found the yoga properly. And why? That is mad-āśrayaḥ, he does not follow the disciplic succession. Mad āśrayaḥ. And in the beginning, in Fourth Chapter it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). So these foolish persons, they do not follow all these principles; therefore they cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. Anyone... We say... It may appear to be very strong word but that's a fact. (Hindi) That's a strong word, that's all right, but he's a chor. (Hindi) Strong language used here... (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Kirāṭa-huṇāndhra-pulin... Huh? (Hindi) (break) ...obeisance to guru. Then his guru, then his guru, up to Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) ...paramparā system. You cannot directly approach God. That is useless. You have no power to approach God directly. That is not possible. Guru kṛṣṇa kṛpayā (CC Madhya 19.151). (Hindi) Let them study this philosophy. We have got books, enough books. One cannot read all these books even throughout whole life. (break)
Guest (2): I am going to...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You do actually work.
Guest (2): So I can also accompany certain places like...
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine movement, it will make progress, provided it is presented in pure form. It was not presented before me in pure form, at least in the Western countries. Therefore people could not take it, nor they could understand it. Now it is being placed in pure form in the right way of paramparā system as the ācāryas introduced, and actually it is happening. It is..., they are taking. Wherever they are going, people are very much anxious to take this philosophy, as if they are waking. Anywhere we go, even we have sent men to Jerusalem (?). (aside:) What town? (indistinct) So this method is very effective, and people are accepting, any part of the world, without any discrimination. Here mostly you see our students are from the Christian group, the Jewish group, there are many students from Muhammadan group, from Parsi group.
Prabhupāda: Your generation are kṣatriya. Actually we give stress in our civilization, brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā (BG 9.33). And Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). (Hindi?) We have lost our kṣatriyas, we have lost our...
Dr. Singh: (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: So the Vedic civilization is lost. The kṣatriyas are considered to be the arms.
Dr. Singh: And also the...
Prabhupāda: And the brāhmaṇas the head.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Singh: Handed down.
Prabhupāda: That I have spoken. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So this knowledge were being studied by the king, because it is the responsibility of the king to see that the citizens are happy in every all respects.
Dr. Singh: Sretaketu(?) also went to the king to ask him. Your movement has spread with tremendous rapidity.
Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine.
Dr. Singh: And the sheep are very hungry. (laughs)
Devotee (5): There are some Christians who are actually sincere and they feel as though they are doing the proper thing, but they are just misled by the fact that there is no paramparā system coming from Lord Jesus. The churches are teaching the wrong thing, but they are sincere. (indistinct) Kṛṣṇa will direct them (indistinct) the proper authority?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they are actually following strictly the principles of Jesus Christ, then sometimes when he meets some pure devotee, he will accept. The groundwork will be nice for accepting farther advancement. Just like Jesus Christ says, "Thou shall not kill." So if anyone follows this principle, "No, I shall not kill," then he becomes purified. But who is that Christian who is not killing? So where is follow? Amongst the Christians the more killing process is going on very strongly. So who is a Christian? In that, if you disobey the first principle of Christianity, then where is your Christianity? Why you falsely claim that you are a Christian? "Thou shalt not covet." What is that next?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's the original guru. Then His disciple Brahmā is guru. Then his disciple Nārada is guru. Then his disciple Vyāsa is guru. In this way there is guru-paramparā. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2), the transcendental knowledge is received through the disciplic succession.
Bob: So a guru receives his knowledge through the succession, not directly from Kṛṣṇa. Do you receive some knowledge directly from Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's direct instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā.
Bob: I see, but...
Prabhupāda: But you have to learn it through the disciplic succession; otherwise you'll misunderstand.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not the way. Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). You have to accept the paramparā, disciplic succession. That is a challenge, that "I don't want to surrender anyone."
Guest (2): No, not challenge... I'm not saying... I mean, I'm not...
Prabhupāda: No, it is not possible. Kṛṣṇa accepted Himself a guru. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted a guru. They are God Himself. So how you can accept: "I can approach Kṛṣṇa without guru"? Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā. Kṛṣṇa... When actually you want Kṛṣṇa seriously—you do not know who is guru—then Kṛṣṇa will give you a guru. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja. He was advised by his mother that "If you go to the forest you can see God." So he went there. But when he was very serious, then Kṛṣṇa sent him Nārada Muni. So if you are actually serious about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some of His representative and he will take charge of you. That is the process. If you do not find a guru, that means Kṛṣṇa is not yet pleased, either you are not serious.
Prabhupāda: Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). So we have to hear by paramparā system. You attend the lectures of a professor because he has heard. He has listened the same instruction from his professor. You don't go to a professor who has never gone to school and college. Do you go there? So this knowledge... As material knowledge is received by paramparā, similarly, spiritual knowledge is received also by paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). By paramparā system. Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa: "Because the paramparā was lost, therefore the science was lost. Therefore I shall again say the same system to you." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam: (BG 4.3) "I am trying to speak to you because you are My devotee. You are very dear friend." So similarly, one has to become a dear friend of Kṛṣṇa and devotee of Kṛṣṇa before he can understand what Kṛṣṇa says. You see? There are so many Bhagavad-gītā editions in all the countries.
Guest (2): Like you said, guru you know. We go through...
Prabhupāda: There is paramparā. So there is symptoms of guru not that everyone becomes guru. These are controversial points. We don't want this. Why don't you give the ladies first, these ladies? (Hindi) Yes. I am old man. Old men, children, ladies, they must be first supplied. That's...
Guest (2): First (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Our Indian etiquette is that, first brāhmaṇas, then woman, children, then others.
Lucille: In Mexico too, the older people.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you are coming from Mexico?
Lucille: No, I have...
Prabhupāda: We have got our temple in Mexico City. What is the address of our temple?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa, if you cannot meet Kṛṣṇa, you can meet with Kṛṣṇa's representative. Kṛṣṇa may not be physically present, but His representative is physically present. You can talk with him. That is the system of Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. Kṛṣṇa says that "I talked with the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). "First of all I talked with the sun-god." Vivasvān manave prāha. "Then he talked with his son, Manu. Then Manu talked with Ikṣvāku. In this way..." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam, there is a disciplic succession. So if you can be in touch with that disciplic succession, then Kṛṣṇa's representative is there. If you talk with the Kṛṣṇa's representative, then you talk with Kṛṣṇa. Just like in office, there are different departments, and the, there is a man, departmental-in-charge. So if you can talk with that departmental-in-charge, if you can please him, that means you are pleasing the proprietor or director. There is no doubt. Because he is representative. So physically you may not meet Kṛṣṇa, but in higher stage, you can meet. But accepting that you cannot..., but He, you have to be in contact with His representative. That is coming in disciplic succession.
Prabhupāda: Not my own,...
Professor: No?
Prabhupāda: ...but through the disciplic succession. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). In that way.
Professor: From Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: From Śrī Kṛṣṇa. You can open the Fourth, Fourth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.
Professor: Yes.
Yogeśvara: This is our Bhagavad-gītā, published by MacMillan Company.
Prabhupāda: You open the Fourth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: They are not standard. We are following Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, standard, and they have got their own manufactured way. So we don't recognize them. Our process is evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Paramparā. What Kṛṣṇa said, the disciplic succession will say the same thing. But they are speaking differently. So therefore we don't take them as bona fide. They are not bona fide. And from external point of view, we have got so many literatures, so many branches, so many devotees, within six years. But they haven't got such thing. Even Ramakrishna Mission. They are working for the last eighty years. And I have worked only for six years. And my result is eighty times more than them. They also acknowledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore you take from the perfect, Kṛṣṇa. We take from Kṛṣṇa's representative. One who speaks as good as Kṛṣṇa. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We don't take, don't accept knowledge from any rascal. We accept knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme. I may be rascal, but because I am receiving knowledge from the perfect, whatever we speak, that is perfect. A child may be innocent he does not know. But he has learned that this article is called spectacle. So when he says, the child says, "Father, this is spectacle." This is perfect knowledge. Similarly, if you hear from the perfect and act accordingly, then you are perfect. Now Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. After death there is another body. So we accept it. It doesn't require any proof of so-called science who's imperfect.
Guest (2): So the question of belief comes first.
Prabhupāda: It is not belief, it is fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our history, we find so many gṛhasthas, householder, kings, rājarṣi. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājā, king, at the same time, ṛṣi. This was the king. Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Rājarṣi. He's a king, but ṛṣi. You read that portion. Yes. The government of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, how they were happy, just see. Kāmam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya. Parjanya means cloud, yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). The, all our necessities come from the rain. Now there is scarcity of rain. What the government can do or the scientists can do? And if there is no rain, then all your plan is finished.
Prabhupāda: Not to speak like mad man. That you are scientists, you are, "We shall solve all the questions." This nonsense thing should stop. They should come to God and understand what God says. Then their life is successful. God Himself is speaking in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. This is not meant for the dogs and cats; this is meant for persons like Arjuna. Because Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna—for enlightened, ah, topmost class of men. They'll understand. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). So be yourself amongst the topmost intelligent class of men and try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then you'll be happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he's Vaiṣṇava, ācārya. But that very deviation, that "I have done something better than Śrīdhara," that is not our paramparā system. Then he was thinking himself better than Śrīdhara. That is not allowed. We should always remain servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80). Never we shall think that "I am better than my Guru Mahārāja." That is fall down. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare... Our Juhu Beach is very nice.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: All clean, and you can walk very nicely. In Bombay.
Yaśomatīnandana: And lot of people can see you. And they bow down to you?
Prabhupāda: If they do not, what can I do?
Prabhupāda: Then make them. That is your duty. I am talking to you, and you talk to them. That is paramparā system. Alone, I cannot go everywhere. Now you learn and you speak.
Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...first-class economist. We are trying to save the state money from being unnecessarily squandered away. The so-called scientists, politicians, they are simply wasting money. (break)
Prajāpati: ...fear this condition is hopeless.
Prabhupāda: No, not at all. You simply expose these rascals, and everything hopeful. You have to know how to expose these rascals. That's all.
Hṛdayānanda: So the more we preach and chant, the more we become purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to become powerful spiritually. Then you'll be able. If you remain weak and manufacture your own way, then it will not be possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, our speculative knowledge, intellectual platform, is not helpful. We must receive knowledge from superior source, perfect source. That knowledge is perfect. Just like we give, generally this example, that to find out who is my father, my search out, research, will not help me, but if my mother says, "Here is your father," that is perfect knowledge because she's authority. Therefore, for perfect knowledge, we have to take it from the perfect authority, not by our speculative intellectual gymnasium. No, that will not help. Because our intellectual jurisdiction is very limited. That is Vedic process. Vedic process is not to acquire knowledge by ascending process, inductive process. Vedic knowledge is to receive knowledge by descending process, knowledge coming from authority. That, that you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter: evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Knowledge has to be received... Just like a child receives knowledge... He is inquisitive: "Mother, what is this?
Prabhupāda: And God comes as incarnation. He sends His representative. Then it is corroborated. And that is perfect knowledge of God. Kṛṣṇa's, God's feature—everything is described in the Vedas: Brahma-saṁhitā, Yajur-veda, Sāma-veda, like that. And when Kṛṣṇa descends, He practically demonstrates all the symptoms of God. So then we accept God. And it is confirmed by authorities. Just like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa Himself says that "I am the Supreme." Arjuna accepts, the direct listener from God. And later on, the ācāryas, big, big ācāryas, who control the society, just Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they accept. Latest, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He accepts. So our guru-paramparā all accepts Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa describes Himself. So where is the difficulty to understand God? The symptoms are there in the śāstras.
Prabhupāda: No, it is very intelligent. Yes. Just like guru does not accept, although he is worshiped like Kṛṣṇa, he never accepts that "I am Kṛṣṇa." That is our paramparā system. Śiṣya has to accept guru as Kṛṣṇa, but guru will never accept that he is Kṛṣṇa. This is our relationship. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Samasta-śāstraiḥ, all revealed scripture.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the unique quality of Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nowhere we can find these things.
Candanācārya: One time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said, "I will go to hell," but none of your disciples accepted that.
Prajāpati: Actually, coming to this country, this is hell.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not in hell. I am with the devotees, so how can I say I am in hell? (break) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta-sane vās: "My duty is to serve my guru and live with the devotees." That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. "My mission is to serve my guru, but live with the devotees."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: ...is going on.
Prabhupāda: You follow, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80), servant of the servants of the servant of, then this is our.
Guru dāsa: That's the consideration. Advancement is (indistinct). (break)
Harikeśa: I know I am making mistakes.
Prabhupāda: Why do you preach?
Harikeśa: That's my question.
Prabhupāda: Stop preaching.
Prabhupāda: Yes! So ācārya, who is ācārya? Then next question will be: who is ācārya? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Those who are coming, the ācārya-sampradāya. Śrī-sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya, the four sampradāyas. So unless... Sampradāya vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalāḥ... Unless one comes to the ācārya disciplic succession, whatever nonsense he speaks, it is all useless. This is the most important thing, ācāryopāsanam.
Dr. Patel: Śaucaṁ sthairyam ātma-vinigrahaḥ. Again I read, eh?
Prabhupāda: Hmm.
Dr. Patel: Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam, ācāryopāsanaṁ śaucaṁ... (BG 13.8).
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa... Doctor Shah. Mister Shah? Kṛṣṇa says...
Dr. Shah: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: ...that evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Unless one comes to the paramparā system, he cannot understand the knowledge. But these rascals, without in the paramparā system, they interpret.
Dr. Shah: According to you, how many paramparās are there?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Shah: How many paramparās are there?
Prabhupāda: No, no, how many, don't take many. Take one.
Dr. Shah: One, yes.
Prabhupāda: You you, you... Yes! That you should follow. That you should follow. You should follow Rāmānujācārya. Yes. Ācārya... Ācāryopāsanam. Even Śaṅkarācārya. Yes. Those who have been accepted ācāryas, then... Then you accept. But how one becomes ācārya? When he comes to the paramparā system. He cannot become all of a sudden ācārya, without caring for...
Chandobhai: There are so many commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā, Upaniṣads, Vedānta...
Prabhupāda: Just like this Dayānanda, he did not care for anyone. He became ācārya. He started.
Chandobhai: As I understand, or I am given to understand is that... (break) ...they accepted it...
Prabhupāda: Either you... Directly it is not possible to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore mad-āśrayaḥ means "one who has taken shelter of Me." That is paramparā system. You take shelter of Him. Then the result will be asaṁśayaḥ.
Passerby: Hello.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Asaṁśayaḥ means at the present moment...
Guest (1): Without any doubts.
Prabhupāda: No... People are in doubt whether there is God, or "If there is God, He might have died by this time." So there are so many... (laughs) Yes. When I first went to U.S.A., the theory was "God is dead." But when I began to speak, they realized, "No, God is not dead. God is with Swamiji." They wrote. They wrote articles. So asaṁśayaṁ...
Mr. Sar: Samagraṁ māṁ. From all aspects.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore, what is Kṛṣṇa, is to be understood from Arjuna. This is paramparā system. Paramparā system. Arjuna talked with Kṛṣṇa personally. So his experience is first-hand. So how this rascal can imagine of Kṛṣṇa, that "Kṛṣṇa is like this, Kṛṣṇa is like that." If you actually reading Bhagavad-gītā as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept it. This is called paramparā. So what is the experience of Arjuna? Arjuna said, "You are, you are the Supreme Personality, puruṣam. You are not female. You are not prakṛti. You are puruṣa, śaśvata, and the original, śaśvatam, eternally." Not that, the Māyāvādīs, "Now impersonal..." Yes, read one line. That is sufficient.
Prabhupāda: Here is paramparā. Now, if we follow the footsteps of Arjuna, and we should surrender like that...
Dr. Patel: (next verse, Sanskrit) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...studying Bhagavad-gītā. If somebody recommends that "We accept this false," then what kind of business this is? Everyone says, "Oh, we have studied Bhagavad-gītā." (laughs) What you have studied? You are attached to some false imitation, and how you have studied? So am I right, Mr. Sar?
Dr. Patel: You are always right.
Prabhupāda: No, no. You are not properly answering. (laughter) I know that. Now...
Dr. Patel: You come into altercation unnecessarily.
Prabhupāda: This is the Māyāvādī's version. They do not accept the Purāṇas. This is Māyāvādī version. But our paramparā system, Madhvācārya, he has accepted Purāṇas, Rāmāyaṇa, Mahābhārata, as Vedic literature. So we have to follow the ācārya. Ācāryavān puruṣo... Yes. Not only Madhvācārya, all, all other ācāryas.
Indian man (2): Ācārya, ṛṣis, they have got all different...
Dr. Patel: But those people are following Śaṅkarācārya...
Prabhupāda: Yes, but Śaṅkarācārya accepted Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He commented, and he accepted Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: His commentation is different, you see.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. He has accepted Kṛṣṇa, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. He has accepted. You have read, Bhagavad-gītā. He has accepted.
Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not realized. No, no, no. No, no, no. I have realized... (break) ...should stop discussing Bhagavad-gītā because Bhagavad-gītā begins, evaṁ paramparā.
Indian man (2): (shouting unintelligibly)
Prabhupāda: No, no. (break) ...as the ācārya. And we have to accept.
Dr. Patel: What I mean to say that realized people don't criticize because final proof nobody knows. (break)
Prabhupāda: Sarvārhanam acyutejyā. Simply by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), you can worship everyone. There is no need of separately worshiping the five devatās. There is no need.
Dr. Patel: ...common features of Kṛṣṇa are common to all paramparās. It can't be different from one another.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramparā. He says, "As soon as this paramparā was lost, the Bhagavad-gītā was lost." Naṣṭaḥ, it is said, naṣṭaḥ. "Therefore I am taking you again as paramparā." You see? If you do not accept...
Dr. Patel: What you say... I mean... Listen. This is one of the way of seeing things.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, you see... open, open (indistinct)
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa is so multifarious and so multiple energies He has got that only ekasmin...
Prabhupāda: No, no, here it is said, in the Fourth... This is Fourth Chapter?
Dr. Patel: No, this is Twelfth Chapter. I am reading the common features of all the sādhus. Adveṣṭā sarva-bhūtānāṁ maitraḥ karuṇa eva ca, nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ, nirahaṅkāraḥ (BG 12.13). We must have (Sanskrit)
Prabhupāda: No, that is ahaṅkāra, that "I have got my own interpretation." That is ahaṅkāra.
Prabhupāda: That is not vidhi. Vidhi is here. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. The first word is Viṣṇu, of Viṣṇu, not of any other. So these are the demonstration of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ (SB 7.5.23). This is arcanā. Just like we perform in the morning, in the evening, at noon, arcā-vigraha. Viṣṇu, arcayam, Viṣṇu. It is not idol worship. Arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ. If one thinks the arcā-mūrti, the worshipable Deity in the temple, as stone or as wood, arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ guruṣu nara-matiḥ... To accept guru, in the paramparā system... All the gurus in the paramparā system... Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). Nara-matiḥ, consider him as ordinary human being... In this way there is a list. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. A Vaiṣṇava, a devotee: "He is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is American Vaiṣṇava. He is śūdra Vaiṣṇava." No. When one is Vaiṣṇava, there should be no distinction by the caste. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. In this way there is a list that should be avoided. So these things required. If actually... The same thing, that if a girl is married to the husband, she must be always engaged in the service of the husband. That will be appreciated. If she says, "Sir, now we are married. You go home and I remain at home," there will be no prayojana-siddhi.
Prabhupāda: (break) Everyone makes this mistake. So as he is accepting, as Arjuna accepted, this is paramparā acceptance. (break)
Girirāja: "...the material luminaries, Your transcendental effulgence is identical with brahmajyoti." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...advised and all the ācāryas advised, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's advised. Why should we go somewhere else? Take shelter of His lotus feet. That's all. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). This is right conclusion. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). (break) Mahātmā, immediately by surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. (break) A child, if he is informed, "God is everywhere," he will never understand what is God. He knows that God is there, that this God consciousness is there. So what is the use of educating him, "Oh, God is everywhere. You don't require to go to temple?" This is nonsense. It is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. He must know, "Here is God." He goes there, offer respect. All the children come. (break) ...a man, military man like Arjuna.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And anyone. Yes. Similarly, bona fide spiritual master means who is in the line of successive spiritual master. The original spiritual master is God. So then one who has heard from God and he has explained the same message to his disciple, then the disciple is bona fide spiritual master—if he does not change. That is our process. We take lessons. We hear from Kṛṣṇa who is the perfect, God. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).
O'Grady: But then, you see my poor old father, living in the west of Ireland, a simple man, at his age, seventy now, your generation, he has gotten to the point at his age where he says, "Well, they tell me, the priests they tell me ultimately it's God who knows. But I want to know who told God."
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. Literatures are also, authentic literatures... Śrutayaḥ means authentic literature, which is acceptable. They are also various type. Just like Vedas. There are four Vedas: Sāma-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Atharva-Veda, Ṛg-Veda. Then the Upaniṣads are there. Then the Vedānta-sūtra is there. So if we study all this Vedic literature or any other similar literature, it is very difficult to find out the Absolute Truth. Śrutayo vibhinnaḥ. And if we take the philosophers, so one philosopher differs from another philosopher. Na cāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Therefore, to approach the Absolute Truth, God, is very difficult subject matter. Therefore our principle is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahājana means the recognized persons, recognized by the Supreme Lord, such persons we follow. We have got a list of recognized persons, just like Lord Brahmā, Lord Śiva, the Manu. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Manu's name is there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāha (BG 4.1), this Manu. So Manu, then Kapila, then Prahlāda, Janaka, Vyāsadeva, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, Yamarāja. In this way there are twelve mahājanas. And we receive knowledge from either of them. That is bona fide philosophy. That is called paramparā system. The original teacher is Kṛṣṇa and from Him the sun-god, Vivasvān, learned it. He spoke to his son, Manu. Manu spoke to his son, Ikṣvāku. In this way the paramparā system is coming. And that is bona fide. This is our philosophy, to accept knowledge from the perfect person or his bona fide representative.
Prabhupāda: We want to see the quality, not the quantity. So our process is paramparā. Just like in India—you have been in India—there are ācāryas: Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya. If the ācārya accept, then we accept. This is our process. We don't go the millions; we see the quality. Rāmānujācārya, high quality devotee; Madhvācārya, high quality devotee; Caitanya, high quality devotee. If they say he is God, then we accept. This is our process. We don't see how many millions of followers. No. We want to see the quality man. He says yes. So Śaṅkarācārya says "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Rāmānujācārya says "the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Madhvācārya says "Supreme," Caitanya says "Supreme," then we accept. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. Simply by argument we cannot understand the truth. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. And if you simply consult Vedic literature, that is also not possible. There are different statements. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā, nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. A muni, a saintly person, a philosopher is not a philosopher or muni if he does not agree with others. He must disagree, then he becomes.
Prabhupāda: This is our process. We don't go the millions; we see the quality. Rāmānujācārya, high quality devotee; Madhvācārya, high quality devotee; Caitanya, high quality devotee. If they say he is God, then we accept. This is our process. We don't see how many millions of followers. No. We want to see the quality man. He says yes. So Śaṅkarācārya says "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Rāmānujācārya says "the Supreme Personality of Godhead," Madhvācārya says "Supreme," Caitanya says "Supreme," then we accept. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. Simply by argument we cannot understand the truth. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. And if you simply consult Vedic literature, that is also not possible. There are different statements. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā, nāsāv munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. A muni, a saintly person, a philosopher is not a philosopher or muni if he does not agree with others. He must disagree, then he becomes. So that is also not the way. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: it is very confidential. Then how to know? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, ācāryas—that is the process. Ācāryopāsanam. What is that, in the Thirteenth Chapter? Ācāryopāsanam, we have to understand through the ācāryas. That is our process. That is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead not by our experience but by the experience of the acaryas who are recognized, and then we follow. Just like Arjuna accepts Kṛṣṇa in the Tenth Chapter. Find out, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Read it.
Professor La Combe: What is the paramparā from Caitanya?
Prabhupāda: From Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Yes. The Six Gosvāmīs: Rūpa, Sanātana, Bhaṭṭa Raghunātha, Śrī Jīva, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa, Dāsa Raghunātha. The Six Gosvāmīs. Then from the Gosvāmīs there is Śrīnivāsācārya. Then from him, I think, this Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī, and then Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Then Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, then Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī, then Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, then Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja, then my Guru Mahārāja. Next we are. I am the tenth or eleventh, eleventh from Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Professor La Combe: And you have come to a round visit to the west now?
Prabhupāda: I have come several times.
Professor La Combe: Yes, but this time.
Prabhupāda: This time, yes, just to see my centers. I have got many...
Professor La Combe: This is your Paris establishment?
Prabhupāda: Bhaktisiddhānta Saras... That is the photograph of my guru. His Guru Mahārāja and his Guru Mahārāja...
Professor La Combe: And so on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is paramparā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this.
Professor La Combe: And how do you...? It was one of your pupils who spoke about Rāmānuja.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Rāmānuja. He belongs to the Śrī-sampradāya.
Professor La Combe: Yes. But there is a connection.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. All the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they are connected. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka. So we belong to Madhvācārya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu belonged to Madhvācārya. Madhvācārya was direct disciple of Vyāsadeva, and by paramparā, Mādhavendra Purī. Then from Mādhavendra Purī, Īśvara Purī. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Īśvara Purī as His spiritual master. So we belong to this Madhvācārya-sampradāya, Madhvācārya-sampradāya or Brahma-sampradāya.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Vedic instruction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to get first-class experience of the perfection of life, you must approach guru. That is the Vedic injunction. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. Now, who is guru? Whom shall I approach? So the next line explains that approach such guru, śrotriyam, who has heard from his guru perfectly, that guru. Who had no chance of hearing from perfect guru, he is not guru. This is called guru-paramparā, disciplic succession. I hear from a perfect person, and I distribute the knowledge the same way, without any change. So Kṛṣṇa gives us knowledge in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are distributing the same knowledge. It is not by our... (aside:) Water is not required. Water I don't want. There is water. So I am always inexperienced because my power of understanding is very little. Therefore I must get experience from a person who is perfect.
Prabhupāda: This is perfect process of knowledge: You approach the perfect person and get knowledge, and that is your perfect experience. Personally, I may be, you may be, not perfect. But because I get the knowledge from the perfect, my knowledge is perfect. This is our process. We are getting knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the most perfect. Or you get knowledge from Jesus Christ, that is also perfect, because source is perfect. I am taking knowledge from God and you are taking the knowledge from the son of God who has come directly from him, the same. So, but we have to receive knowledge from the perfect, not by ascending process, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, experiencing failure, not like that. That will take long time. But if you actually want to be perfect, just approach the perfect, take knowledge from him and you become perfect. That is the injunction. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). This is... Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Find out this verse, Fourth Chapter.
Satsvarūpa: He asked if anyone now has seen Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: How now one can see? He has to see through the paramparā, succession. You have not seen your great-grandfather. How do you know that he was? How do you know? Great-grandfather or his father, you have not seen. How do you believe?
Guest (2): By your parents telling you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore you have to receive the knowledge from the authorities, paramparā.
Guest (2): But supposedly, Kṛṣṇa is eternal or, that is, indestructible. So surely He must be existing today.
Prabhupāda: This is paramparā system. The Gosvāmīs also did it. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau, for the benefit of the (indistinct). We are pushing this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement for the benefit of the whole world, not that for our individual person. Vaiṣṇava, whatever he does, he does for the whole world, not for his person. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī, they do for their own person. Karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, for their personal benefit. That is also materialism. Vaiṣṇavism, lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore, honored all over the three worlds, their activities and their person. Tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau. Therefore, they should be taken shelter of. Vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura confirmed, ei chaya gosāñi yāra, tāra mui dāsa, "One who has taken shelter of the six Gosvāmīs, I am his servant, nobody's servant."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Puruṣottama Sarasvatī? No, my Guru Mahārāja was Sarasvatī, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.
Professor: Oh, Bhakti... So that's the same line, no?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That receiving the perfect knowledge... There is paramparā. Just like I have got perfect knowledge. I tell you. Then you get the perfect knowledge. You tell him. This is called paramparā.
Professor: I read something like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Without that paramparā the knowledge is not perfect. Give them prasāda. Hm?
Prabhupāda: Koriho mane āśā. Do not try to research anything. That is final.
ar na koriho mane āśā.
If the guru is perfect, your knowledge is perfect. And how guru becomes perfect? He has heard from his guru. That's all. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Kṛṣṇa is the original guru. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam, vivasvān manave prāhu (BG 4.1). This is paramparā system. You hear... Just like Lord Brahmā heard from Kṛṣṇa, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. He gave the knowledge to Brahmā. Brahmā distributed the knowledge. Therefore Vedic knowledge is perfect. The Vedic knowledge comes from the Supreme Person. Vedāham. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛt cāham (BG 15.15). So Vedic knowledge is coming from Kṛṣṇa, and it is received by Brahmā, and then Nārada receives. Then Vyāsadeva receives. Then he gives us all these Vedic literature. We understand. That's all. It is not by so-called rascal's research. Research means they are rascal. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That is his interpretation. Tviṣā, tviṣā akṛṣṇam. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ, śuklo raktas tathā pitaḥ idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ. So God has other colors also. White and red and yellow. So here is yellow. Tviṣā akṛṣṇa. So we have to follow Jīva Gosvāmī. What these rascals, we have to follow? We don't follow. If you have got a interpretation, we have got better interpretation. Why shall I accept you? My mother says, "Here is your father." I shall accept that, or somebody says, "Here is your father" Whom shall I accept? Mother's version. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). We should accept the paramparā ācāryas, not whimsically anyone's interpretation you have to accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it's very clear that if one does not accept Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then actually he cannot worship Kṛṣṇa properly.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
Pañcadraviḍa: Who will decide who will be king?
Prabhupāda: Therefore the king is evaṁ paramparā system. The king, the original king is the sun-god. Then his son, Manu, his son, Ikṣvāku. Everything is described. Why don't you see there?
Pañcadraviḍa: But who would be the king today? If we establish such a system, who would become the king?
Prabhupāda: Nobody would be king. Everyone is king and fight. That's all. Nobody is king. Everyone is a dog. And they are simply barking.
Devotee (1): In Africa, recently, one of the leaders has taken all the mūrtis and crucifixes from the churches and put his own statue.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Devotee (1): He has banned all religions.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Prabhupāda: Had there been any real king, he would have been killed immediately. Because there is no king, therefore in South India, they are insulting the statue of Lord Rāmacandra, because there is no king. Everyone is king. Diplomacy... Democracy. What is this nonsense, democracy? All over the world the royalty is hereditary, never elected. (break) ...and it was hereditary, even Russia. That is the system. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). And evaṁ paramparā-prāptam—who? Rājarṣayoḥ. They are king, but just like saintly persons. That is king, not a loafer class is elevated to the royal post. Rājarṣayoḥ. Although they're holding the post of a king for administration, they're just like ṛṣi. That is king.
Guest (1): But we have great paramparā of varṇāśrama-dharma.
Prabhupāda: So we can give them these things. We can give them these things, that spiritual emancipation, and they are appreciating. So if we make ourself in India a nice program-already they are eager to take—then they will take more and more. And that will glorify India's prestige. So everything is ready there? Oh, here. You have got that letter. You can... (end)
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to take the paramparā meaning. Because we are foolish, we cannot understand properly. Tad vijñārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Therefore, one has to go to guru and understand the meaning by paramparā. You cannot make your own meaning. The meaning is already there. But if you cannot understand, then you should approach guru and understand the meaning by paramparā.
Paramahaṁsa: Sometimes people ask where Swami Prabhupāda get his meanings for different words, because they would differ, they would disagree and pick some other word. But they don't know that you are simply taking the verse and the meaning of the words word for word, as the previous ācāryas have done.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then why not post there? It is six.
Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if the knowledge was handed down by the saintly kings, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), how is it that the knowledge was lost?
Prabhupāda: When it was not handed down. Simply understood by speculation. Or if it is not handed down as it is. They might have made some changes. Or they did not hand it down. Suppose I handed it down to you, but if you do not do that, then it is lost. Now the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is going on in my presence. Now after my deparature, if you do not do this, then it is lost. If you go on as you are doing now, then it will go on. But if you stop... (end)
Prabhupāda: Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. You follow some mahājana, great personality. Don't take opinion, this man, that man, this man, this man. Then you will be bewildered. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So you have to follow one great personality, ācārya. That is also recommended in the Bhā... ācāryopāsanam, following the ācārya. So we have got recognized ācārya, just like you said, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Or Śaṅkarācārya even. You follow one ācārya, like Christians, they follow Christ, ācārya.
The Mohammedans, they follow ācārya, Mohammed. That is good. You must follow some ācārya. But don't give your opinion. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam. Just see, find out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as you give up the ācārya-paramparā system, then it is lost. Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. All the ācāryas will say like that, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. And Dr. Radhakrishnan, "No, no, it is not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see the fun. He has become more than the ācāryas. So we reject immediately. He thinks himself too proud that he defies the ācāryas. You see? This is the defect. The whole Bhagavad-gītā is spoken on the battlefield. Gandhi says it is nonviolence. Just see. (Dr. Copeland laughs) So we have to follow these people, do you mean to say?
Dr. Copeland: If you're measuring your success by the numbers of people, he had a lot of people too.
Prabhupāda: No, that is the statement in the Bhagavad-gītā. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). We have to receive the knowledge through paramparā, disciplic succession. "And because the paramparā is broken, therefore it is lost," Kṛṣṇa says. So we cannot accept Bhagavad-gītā or any Vedic literature, which is called śruti... Śruti means one hears from the ācārya. That is the system.
Amogha: Usually in modern education they have the idea called "well-rounded point of view." They want to take some from here, from there, from that one and that one, that one, and then think about them all, and come up with a conclusion. So he is thinking it doesn't fit with their pattern of reasoning, how we take from one source and get the proper conclusion. They think they have to get from many sources and compare.
Prabhupāda: How... I can reply that if you want to know who is your father, then you will have to take the knowledge from many sources, by votes, that who is your father?
Prabhupāda: Now he says, "not the same." You cannot offer reason. You have to take from one source, from the mother. That's all. You cannot take votes, "Can you say who is my father?" He will say this... He'll say, "He is your father." No, it is not the way. The way is to take the information from the right source, not take the votes of rascals and fools. That is not the way. One source. Even from scientific point of view, mathematics, "two plus two equal to four," you have to take from one source. Any mathematician will say like that. Nobody will say, "No, two plus two equal to five." "No, two plus two equal to three." Nobody will say. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone will say. This is not the way of securing knowledge, from here, there... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not approve. And our Kṛṣṇa, He said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). That is the recommendation. And because that source is now missing, therefore it is lost. This process of knowledge, that we take knowledge from anyone and everyone, his opinion, what is that?
Prabhupāda: No, no, anyone who knows the subject matter, he will be able to explain. Not necessarily the author is required to be present there. (break) ...to study from a medical man, I never said you have to study from the author. Or one who understood the author's purpose. Just like we are explaining Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Not that one has to learn directly from Kṛṣṇa. One who has understood Kṛṣṇa, from him. That is paramparā system.
Madhudviṣa: Also in the lecture last night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that after the water subsides, then the trees come out, and then the insects, then the birds. That would indicate that the creation takes place in stages?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that may be, but we don't agree with that. We don't agree with that. Everyone has got the right to interpret in a different way, but we have to accept paramparā, the disciplic succession. Just like I have given one burfi. Everyone knows it is burfi, and if somebody interprets, "It is stone," so it will not be accepted. Everyone knows it is burfi, nice sweetmeat. Why shall I call it stone? But if somebody says, "I can interpret in this way," he can say, but it will not be accepted.
Amogha: Maybe you'd like to come to ārātrika. It's just starting, ārātrika ceremony.
Guest 2: I'd like to very much, but we'd better go home because...
Amogha: You've got something on? They have things that they have to do.
Prabhupāda: ...logic also it is admitted that inductive logic is imperfect; deductive logic is perfect. (break) ...logic means śrota-panthā, paramparā, śruti, Vedic language, śruti. Śruti pramāṇa. Pramāṇa means evidence, and śruti means Veda. Pratyakṣa, anumāna, śruti. Pratyakṣa means direct, direct evidence, and anumāna, hypothesis. That is Darwin's theory, something like that. And śruti, Vedic. So out of these three kinds of evidences, śruti-pramāṇa is accepted as supreme, neither anumāna nor pratyakṣa. Pratyakṣa, you are seeing the sky, but you cannot say the length and breadth. You cannot say. You are seeing daily. If you say, "I have got this telescope," so that is an imperfect. and how you can see with your eyes directly, direct sense perception? Hypothesis, anumāna, guessing, that is also not perfect. And śruti, we take śruti from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. He says, aham evāsam agre: "Before the creation I was there." We take simply.
Prabhupāda: No, feel, you may wrongly feel because you are imperfect. That is not good argument. Our argument is that the message is coming from the most authorized personality; therefore it is perfect. And we receive guru-paramparā. That is our process. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The rājarṣis, means very, very, big, big, stalwart persons, they accept it. Just like Arjuna gives evidence that "I accept You. You are Parabrahma." So he, next line, he says, "It is not that I am saying. But big, big personalities like Vyāsadeva, he has said. Nārada has said. Asita has said. And You are personally saying, so I have no doubt." This is our process. (break) ...Upendra, Upendra has not come? (break) ...knowledge is always imperfect.
Kīrtanānanda: Things equal to the same thing are equal to each other.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the duty. Paramparā system means the spiritual master shall not give anything which is not spoken by Kṛṣṇa. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: "You become guru under My order." "But I do not know anything nicely, how can I become guru?" "No, you have no botheration. You simply take Kṛṣṇa's word and say, and you become guru."
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) This is meant for the executive head of the state. It is meant for. In the Bhagavad-gītā, Fourth Chapter, it is stated,
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāhur
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājarṣayo. It is meant for the rājarṣis. So Indira is in the position of rāja. If she becomes a ṛṣi, then it will be successful. Then it will be successful. (Bengali) ...that "You have got the position of royalty. You become a saintly lady. Then your scheme will be all successful." That is required. That I can help, how to make her a ṛṣi.
Lalitā: No, she is full of humility... (Bengali)
Harikeśa:
- sri bhagavān uvāca
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
"The Blessed Lord said: I instructed this imperishable science of yoga to the sun-god, Vivasvān, and Vivasvān instructed it to Manu, the father of mankind, and Manu in turn instructed it to Ikṣvāku." Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).
Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ.
Harikeśa: Sa kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.
Prabhupāda: Again, rājarṣayo viduḥ, sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ. Rājarṣaya (Bengali) India culture... (Bengali) Now I can help you. This is my... (Bengali) Sa kāleneha?
Harikeśa: Kāleneha mahatā yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching. Our process is anuśṛṇuyāt. We hear from the superior and reproduce it. That is śravaṇaṁ-kīrtanam. Then perfect. If I add something, my own imagination, then it will spoil. No addition-alteration; as it is. As it is you hear from your spiritual master, reproduce. That's all. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). This 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa is coming by paramparā, so you reproduce. That's all. Even a child can reproduce what he has heard from his father. It is not at all difficult. (break) ...cheap rate.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What we can also do is... I think we should have some publication for one rupee twenty-five paisa. We can just print a small ten-page or ten or fifteen-page.
Prabhupāda: What you'll explain in ten or fifteen page?
Prabhupāda: No. We don’t say like that. We say that God first spoke to sun-god, and sun-god spoke to his son, Manu, and Manu spoke to Ikṣvāku, Ikṣvāku spoke to his son. In this way are there. We don’t say, "The God spoke to me." Evaṁ paramparā prāptam, that is quite reasonable. God said to Brahmā, and the Brahmā said to Nārada, Nārada said to Vyāsadeva, Vyāsadeva said to others. In this way we should know. If my father said to my forefather… My forefather said to my father or my grandfather, and the same news is coming in family way, then where is the wrong? We don’t say, "Darwin simply knew it." No, we don’t say that. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam. He was a rascal number one, all these scientists, the so-called scientists.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But how can we prove Kṛṣṇa scientifically?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but you are also dreaming. Why do you claim that your dream is all right; his dream is wrong? Dreaming is wrong. If his dream is wrong—you are also dreaming—you are also wrong. Why do you claim that your dream is all right? That is nonsense. Everyone thinks that he is right and everyone is wrong. We do not think like that. We take the words of the authority, that's all. Or we have no respect(?). This is our program. That is the way of paramparā. Not only we accept, but our previous ācāryas, all the big, big ācāryas, they have accepted. Śukadeva Gosvāmī said. He is ācārya. Vyāsadeva says from the very beginning. Kṛṣṇa says. That's all right. We take these authorities. We do not dream. That is not our process. Dream, your dream or my dream, this is all rascal. Dream is dream. Why do you think that your dream is right and my dream is wrong?
Prabhupāda: If it is parallel, that is my success. And if it is not parallel, then it is useless. But they want to give something of his own foolish ideas. That has become nowadays, scholars. If you give some foolish idea—"Oh, he is a great philosopher." That's it. And our process is evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imam rājarṣayo (BG 4.2). We have to receive from the a... ācāryopāsanam. That is the way. And this Subodhinī-ṭīkā, Ballabhācārya, as soon as he says, "I have done something better than Śrīdhara Svāmī," immediately Caitanya Mahāprabhu rejected him: "Oh, you have done better than Śrīdhara Svāmī?"
Dr. Patel: Śrīdhara Svāmī has made it more or less...
Prabhupāda: Yes. They come in the paramparā system, through guru. Tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Therefore you have to go to guru to understand. You cannot understand personally. That is not possible. Therefore our system is to see through the guru and śāstra, not by these naked eyes. That is misleading.
Devotee (3): Then the key would be to recognize and appreciate the importance of the guru.
Prabhupāda: Parampara. Guru is also not authority by himself. He is authority by his guru, paramparā. If he is coming in the paramparā system, then he is guru. Otherwise he's not guru. Just like what we are doing? We are simply repeating the Kṛṣṇa's word. That's all. Therefore guru. And as soon as I make addition or alteration, I am goru
Prabhupāda: That is all right.
Lokanātha: "Gaura śrī advaita..." Is it recommended by you? That is in our paramparā? And what about "jaya jagannātha, jaya jagannātha"?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. (break) ...anukīrtanam, to chant always the Lord's name. So these are Lord's name. Jagannātha is also Lord's name. Nityānanda is also Lord's name. (break) ...harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). So harer nāma can be chanted.
Lokanātha: But chanting in that particular fashion, saying "jaya jagannātha, jaya jagannātha."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Chanting means glorifying. "jaya jagannātha." "Please engage me." (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Indian man (2): South Indian community brāhmaṇas have spread all over Bombay now.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they say like that. Then other ācāryas, they are also fools?
Yaśomatī-nandana: I think they place all the other ācāryas after Śaṅkarācārya.
Prabhupāda: Ācāryas... But their paramparā system is very old. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā? No.
Yaśomatī-nandana: They don't accept it as... They do not accept Gītā as spoken by some person Kṛṣṇa five thousand years ago.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, do they accept the authority of Bhagavad-gītā or not?
Yaśomatī-nandana: They say it's a very nice book of knowledge. They don't want to pursue spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Then why they become authority?
| Page Title: | Parampara (Conversations 1969 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 27 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=71, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 71 |