Pakistan (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"Pakistan" |"Pakistan's"

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Yes. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, its Vedic literature, they have some of the same books or also holy books for what we call Hindu religions, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just try to understand, the inhabitants of India were called by the Muhammadans from Persia and other places, "Hindus." "Hindus" means the resident on the other side of the River Indus. You have heard the name of River Indus. So they cannot pronounce it Indus, they say "Hindus." From "Hindus," it has become "Hindu." So actually the residents of India were called "Hindus." And generally, at least in, say, three thousand years ago, all the inhabitants of India were strictly followers of Vedic principles. After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

And he immediately arrested him: "Oh, in my kingdom you are killing cow?" So actually the whole planet was under one flag, one suzerainty. Gradually it has become small, small, small, small, small. Just like in our, very recently, twenty years ago, India became divided, Pakistan and Hindustan. Actually India was one, but we see now it is Pakistan. And some day another "stan" will be divided. So this is going on. So sarva-loka, in all planets, all the planets, actually that is God's place. Nobody's place. We come here empty-handed; we go empty-handed. How we can claim? Suppose you have given me this place to stay. I stay for one week, and if I claim, "Oh, this is my room," is that very nice thing? (laughs) There will be immediately some disagreement, trouble. But you have kindly spared this room. I am living here.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Haṁsadūta: There's another letter. It says, "Your leading article on the Kṛṣṇa cult makes interesting reading. A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the Indian founder of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, ISKCON, and his American disciples repeatedly told K.R. Sundarajan, the author of the article in the Times Weekly, November 8th, 1970, during their brief stay in Bombay that theirs was not strictly a Hindu movement. They explained to him that Kṛṣṇa was above all religions, the universal teacher, the supreme man, the purification of the Absolute Truth. If it is so, then why can't they go to Pakistan and China for chanting of Kṛṣṇa's name and ask them to vacate aggression? The soil of this land where the great master was born..."

Prabhupāda: Now, now, we have to serve the political, politicians. Eh? Because they cannot do, so they are asking us.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Such a nonsense. So we have to help these rascal politicians. You write that, that "Do you mean to say that Kṛṣṇa consciousness means business is to serve the rascal politicians? We are going every country and when we find time we shall go to Pakistan."

Guest (1): Not for vacating the aggression, but for...

Prabhupāda: "Not for helping the politicians who are very much eager to join Pakistan. Our joining is different. Even in India we have got so many enemies like you who are criticizing Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So there are rascals everywhere, either in Pakistan or India. So we are not satisfy the rascals. We are meant for intelligent persons." Write that, like that.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Yes. My birth place is in Calcutta, yes.

Prof. Kotovsky: I understand. Yes, unfortunately I haven't been to North Bengal. You have just visited Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Calcutta, Bombay and several places, Gorakhpur. Gorakhpur.

Prof. Kotovsky: Oh. It's a very difficult situation in...

Prabhupāda: Calcutta.

Prof. Kotovsky: ...Bengal and Calcutta...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing...

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So king should give protection to all living entities. That is king's duty, state's duty. Everyone should have living right. Why the animals should be killed? They are also prajā. Is it not duty of the king to give protection? And that was being done up to the Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Therefore, there was one kingdom. When they deteriorated, gradually part, part, part. Just like what is this Pakistan problem? These Pakistani Muhammadans, they do not come from Muhammadan country. They are our men, Hindus converted. But we could not keep the culture.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I'll request you all, ladies and gentlemen present here. Sindhis are generally opulent and religious also, I know. Formerly, when some of our Godbrothers were going to preach in Karachi, they received very well. Now it is Pakistan. Otherwise all Sindhis, they have a special reception for saintly persons. They are religious persons. So you are all here. I think you should open a very nice center for preaching this gospel. And we have no discrimination. We accept anyone because we do not see the outward body. Just a gentleman is not interested with the outward dress, he is interested with the person he talks. Similarly, we are interested to see every person as spirit soul. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita means learned. Sama-darśinaḥ.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: First of all divide the whole world. It doesn't matter who goes where but...

Devotee: India, Pakistan, (indistinct discussion), Bangladesh, (indistinct) China. Then we have the Mediterranean zone.

Prabhupāda: China, China goes to the...

Devotee: Southeast Asia?

Śyāmasundara: Far east.

Prabhupāda: Where is Japan?

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Rāmacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devāsura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that. We don't say that becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi when there was not..., declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swamiji, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in... So we are not that kind of sādhu and Vaiṣṇava, that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, so you have come from Pakistan.

Devotee: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Which side?

Devotee: Lahore (indistinct)

Sumati Morarjee: I've been to Lahore. We had a very big office in Karachi. I've been to (indistinct) so many time. Next to, you know the (indistinct), the office area.

Prabhupāda: Now, what is the position of Pakistan now?

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Now, what is the position of Pakistan now?

Sumati Morarjee: Today that Bhutto is come and gone.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: You know he has left for today for Pakistan back. He came to see the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Sumati Morarjee: No, our Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: Oh, our Prime Minister.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: So, what is the use of keeping Pakistan? Let it, let, let, let them have another.

Sumati Morarjee: I know, I know, but what about this Bangladesh also, you'll have to.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Sumati Morarjee: Do something, because I met so many people from Bangladesh they were completely subverting our culture.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Dacca? No?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, our office used to be. We had property. We have lost about twenty-six lakhs of rupees with both sides of Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you had to close your office?

Sumati Morarjee: We had our own (indistinct), our own house in Chittagong, then our offices, then (indistinct), and our manager he was interned, and we (indistinct) in Karachi also.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: We had big property in Karachi.

Prabhupāda: So, so they cannot return.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Sumati Morarjee: There, he was born, bred, educated. He is from Bombay and Junagar, Saurastra. Like (indistinct), (indistinct) last time before Pakistan came to my house, we were old friends, so he came to my house, so I...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) was older than you.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, he was a (indistinct)

Sumati Morarjee: I know, and he was a communist member before.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Sumati Morarjee: Home (rule) and all that. He was the man. So I knew him some many years. So he came to see me, and I talked to him, at that time, you know, his position had become very bad. so he said that I started talking to him English, he said why do you talk to me in English? You talk to me in Kachi. We have common language. I thought you forgotten. He said (indistinct) at that time (Śrīla Prabhupāda laughs). And after that, you know, he, this movement of Pakistan, and India became very strong and he went away.

Prabhupāda: He was, he was paid for that running on the League of...

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, I know.

Prabhupāda: Was the Muslim League.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Arabic countries also, our men from (indistinct) that is an Arabic country. We send to Pakistan also, but due to this war, the American Embassy, they asked us to (indistinct). We are going again, Bangladesh. We have got Russia and we are negotiating with China also. So because you are here, you have taken the importance of Bhagavad-gītā, why not do it rightly and propagate nicely. That is our proposition.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: You stayed in India for two years?

Guest (1): Yes, sir.

Guest (2): One year, one year in Pakistan, Lahore.

Guest (1): (indistinct) and only summer time evacuated because Lahore is north of it, Kashmir side. (indistinct) north.

Prabhupāda:Sir, you are by religion Mohammedan?

Guest (1): Pardon?

Prabhupāda: By religion?

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. They're keeping the Bengali language.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: India was divided, Pakistan and Hindustan.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. There's a great consciousness of difference of language too in India, which is rather new. In the past...

Prabhupāda: The two Bengals, they speak the same language.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But West Pakistan, they speak Hindi, or Urdu.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: And the southern states are very conscious of their different languages.

Prabhupāda: Actually, English language... Now we see. We have got the facility of speaking in English language all over the world. Yes.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: That is true. Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Pakistan is also now divided.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Also Indonesia, and they're... On the surface they're Muslims but underneath they're Hindu, there's been...

Prabhupāda: I have been in Indonesia.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: You've also... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their culture is Hindu culture. But by religion they have accepted Muslim. They still, their names are Hindu names.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: ...Pakistan and Bangladesh and two or three other points.

Lord Brockway: Yes. Was I speaking?

Śyāmasundara: No, you spoke just before... When we arrived, you were speaking. You had addressed one question...

Lord Brockway: I was speaking; then you arrived. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: And at the end of the discussion, they take a vote: those who are content and those who are not content.

Lord Brockway: That's right. But I often say that when I do not know, what we are discussing, the answers, then I vote with my party. When I do know, then I often vote against my party. Do you understand what I said?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...New Gayā, and this is the New Gokula. You are in touch in politics, therefore I'm talking something of politics, that the politicians of India, they wanted the..., from the British government, India, a strong united nation. But they could not achieve that goal. Pakistan was taken away. They're now lamenting, or there is some, always unsettled anxiety due to Pakistan. So... So far this movement is concerned, we are spreading the Indian culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all over the world. So the politicians are lamenting for division of India, and here is a movement that everyone will glorify India for this culture. Why do they not join? It is practical.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So everyone has got some duty according to his position. So Bhāgavata says that even a person executes his duty very perfectly, but if he does not awaken his Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all that he has done is simply a waste of time. So our point is that the UNESCO, United Nations, UNO, they're simply wasting their time. From practical point of view, they're unable to do anything. Because the original idea was to stop war. But the war is going on, fighting is going on. They could not stop it. And United Nations... But actually they are becoming disunited more and more. Pakistan was not there. You know very well. Lahore was your country. Now it is other's country. So in this way, there cannot be any solution. There cannot be any solution. We must know the central point. The central point is Kṛṣṇa. We get from... I'm not manufacturing these ideas. Bhagavad-gita is recognized book.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So the body is not existing. I am existing. So I have got a different body now. So where is the difficulty to under-stand that when this body is also finished I get another body? Where is the difficulty? And Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. As we are changing from one body to another, another, another, even within our experience, similarly, as soon as this body is finished, I get another body. Now I am working in this body as national, as Napoleon, as Gandhi, as you according to our own whims and ideas, and fighting in the UNESCO, everything, just like recently Pakistan representative, India... But as soon as the body is finished, just like Gandhi finished, Jinnah finished, now what kind of body he has got now? May not be Indian or Pakistani.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is due to government post.

Guest (1): And he also accepted an invitation, we invited him, He said he'd also come, but this Pakistan war started.

Prabhupāda: Still there are so many respectable person came. The governor came, the high-court justices and that, the Canadian ambassador came. Many men came. And he was very humble. He sat down below.

Guest (1): You didn't see the high commissioner there. He sat down.

Prabhupāda: He's also a very nice man.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What kind of physician...?

Dr. Patel: I am their enemy number one. (Hindi conversation) If I have to... If I were a prime minister of this country. I would ask them to go to Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: No, no. As a physician...

Dr. Patel: They wanted Pakistan for themselves.

Prabhupāda: As a physician, you cannot deny...

Dr. Patel: As a physician, I will treat even animal...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That...

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. (break) So at the present moment Indians means non-Mohammedans. What he is, he does not know—but he is not Mohammedan. That's all. (laughter) Otherwise he has to be, go to Pakistan. Therefore he's non-Mohammedan. That's all. (break) In big, big cities you cannot safely walk. Here, India still, we lie down in the open air. That is not possible there. In Dallas, Dallas I wanted to lie down in the open air. "No, no, you cannot do that."

Dr. Patel: In that way England is better. England is far better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, England... England you cannot lie down on the open. No.

Dr. Patel: No, no, but on the countryside you can pitch a tent...

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all Indians. All this land... Now just like they have become Pakistan. They were Indians, Hindu. Because we degraded in our culture, the divisions, the so many divisions... Otherwise whole world are under Vedic culture. As soon as the brāhmaṇas and the..., or kṣatriyas, they degenerated, the whole society disrupted.

Dr. Patel: Now the brāhmaṇa is trying to regenerate.

Prabhupāda: Now he is above brāhmaṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is brahma-bhūtaḥ, not brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, it is going on. In India I know. They are selling sugar at two annas, four annas a pound, or seer, outside, and India, it is four rupees. What is this nonsense? This is going on. They want to import some war materials or something else, therefore they want export exchange. So they are sacrificing the convenience of the local people for export exchange. These things are going on. These politicians, they create an atmo... Therefore I say the head of the state, they must be clean. But they are all motivated. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. Generally politician has got a particular motive behind him. And when he cannot pull on they declare war. That Pakistan. Pakistan, since the beginning of Pakistan they could not make any economic condition very sound.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: And they have been educated in such a way that India is their strongest enemy. Anything Indian, they dislike in Pakistan. So this is going on by the politicians. They are creating situation because they are not honest, they are not clean. And a clean man cannot become politician. Mr. Lloyd George said that "consistency by the politician is the qualification of an ass." There cannot be any consistency amongst the politicians. So that is the defect, that the politicians are the heads, the leaders of the society, and they are in disagreement. Everyone has got his own ideal, and the fight is going on, and the poor man in the state, they are suffering. Just like in India they partitioned, Pakistan and Hindustan. It was arranged by the leaders, Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Just like in India they partitioned, Pakistan and Hindustan. It was arranged by the leaders, Jinnah and Jawaharlal Nehru. Especially Jinnah. The people are suffering. And the Britishers made partition in such a way that they will remain continually in war because everyone wants the necessities of life. The foodstuff is in Pakistan, and the industry is in India. So the Pakistan will suffer for want of industry, and India will suffer for want of food. This is British plan for partition. They had no business to divide the country, but they wanted to do it as a parting kick, that "You want independence. You will have independence, but you will remain perpetually in war." That was British policy. None of them are benefiting. Occasionally they are fighting and losing so much money and men, that's all, a political game. Similarly, Germany is divided.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Just see. It is a country... People are not bad. I have seen. They are very nice. The government, the rascals, a few men, who are controlling the government, they are all rogues and thieves. The same thing in India. Everywhere mass population, they are innocent. These rascals made them..., misleading. In Russia I have seen. The mass people, they are very nice. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They are innocent. In India also. The Pakistan happened due to these politicians. The Hindus, Muslims, they are innocent. They don't fight. These politicians engaged them to fight artificially for their political ambition. The wars also declared nowadays, on account of the rascal politicians. The people do not want it. (break) ...to the Indian railway strike, have you got any news?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are suffering. Therefore you'll find, in the recent history, every twenty-five years there is a big war, slaughter, mass slaughtering of the people. How nature will tolerate? Now India has learned, imitated the western countries. Now there is war between India and Pakistan. Otherwise there was no such thing. During two wars between the Pakistan and Hindustan, unnecessarily, without any profit, millions of people were killed.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Karandhara: Just recently India exploded an atomic bomb, and now Pakistan is hurrying to get an atomic bomb also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on.

Guru-gaurāṅga: The government promised it would be only for peaceful purposes.

Prabhupāda: No, what do they know about peaceful conditions. They are all rascals. They do not know what is peaceful condition.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Christian method, the offering prayer. That is bhakti, that is bhakti. (German) (break) Kali-yuga means fight. Nobody is interested to understand the truth but they'll simply fight, "In my opinion, this." I say, "My opinion, this." You say, "His opinion." So many foolish opinions and fight within themselves. This is the age. No standard opinion. Everyone has got his own opinion. Therefore there must be fighting. Everyone says, "I think like this." So what is your value, your thinking like that? That is Kali-yuga. Because you have no standard knowledge. If a child says the father, "In my opinion, you should do like this." Is that opinion to be taken? If he does not know the thing, how he can give his opinion? But here, in this age, everyone is prepared with his own opinion. Therefore it is fight, quarrel. Just like the United Nation, all the big men go there to become united, but they're increasing flags. That's all. Fighting, it is a society of fighting only. The Pakistan, the Hindustan, the American, the Vietnam. It was meant for unity but it is rendered into fighting association. That's all. Everything. Because everyone is imperfect, anyone should give his perfect knowledge.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: You told me that when I came from Pakistan to India. I was complaining how difficult it was, but you said that a businessman makes profit in any circumstances.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is business. They are... Police has no eyes to see that the Bala-Krishna (Guru Maharaji) is regularly cheating. Any man can understand.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India.

Morning Walk -- (World War III) -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: Recently, this Bhutto of Pakistan, he was very happy because they were talking about lifting a ten-year holding on arms from the United States, and now, they say, Pakistan will soon get arms from America.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are getting. They are already getting. The Pakistan will start the war with India. And then everything will be...

Devotees: Oh! Whew!

Devotee: Pakistan will start a war... (devotees talking among themselves.)

Pañcadraviḍa: They have started the war maybe eight times.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: ...situation. The... Why America is after this Pakistan? This requires little intelligence. The America has no interest either in Pakistan or India, but both of them, being on the border of Russia, it will be convenient for them to fight with the Russians from these places.

Devotee (1): Through Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Do you follow? You have seen Indian map, eh, Asian map? Have you got any?

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): Through Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Do you follow? You have seen Indian map, eh, Asian map? Have you got any?

Devotee (1): Yes, India and Pakistan are right at the bottom of Russia.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want this place.

Devotee (1): The Russians.

Prabhupāda: Russ... No. Americans.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russians. So if American comes directly in India, that "We want to fight," then India would not agree. Therefore they're keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they're insulting. They're... Not insulting. They're naturally enemy of... not to let them... The Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia... Actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they'll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: The last time there was a war between Pakistan and India the American government put their whole fleet and aimed their guns at India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They wanted to help Pakistan. But when the Russian came, they took time. Otherwise, fighting would have begun at that time.

Devotee (1): So it almost happened one time before.

Prabhupāda: Maybe that Nixon thought: "If some settlement can be done, without fighting..." Therefore he went to Russia.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That war was also Russian instigated. This war, last war between Pakistan and India, was practically between India and Pakistan, uh, yes...

Devotee (1): Russia.

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh... So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They're intelligent than these Punjabis.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So he negotiated in India, that: "You help us to separate from..." And India's interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation, that is India's interest. So India agreed to help them. How to help? They organized a false, er, soldiers. You know? What is called? Bahini. Mean a freedom soldier. They organized freedom soldier. And India consulted Russia. Russia was friendly, that: "We want to help Bangladesh." So they said: "Yes, you help. If there is fight, then we shall help you." This was the... So these bahini, sanan bahini, sandana bahini, or something like that, they organized, "freedom soldiers." The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers. They entered Bangladesh because East Bengal, West Bengal. And they started this freedom soldier. But this is Indian soldier. Pakistan could understand that, that where this Bangladesh will get so nice soldiers? It is Indian soldiers. So when the movement was increasing, then Pakistan was in a very precarious condition. So they wanted American help. The Americans also said: "Yes." So they got American planes, American... to crush down this Bangladesh. And the Bangladesh means Indian soldiers. So later on it was discovered. So Pakistan attacked directly India. That was to go on, increase.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Balance is that you should be reciprocal exchange. What you haven't got, you give me; what I haven't got, I give you. This should be the process of exchange. Then the world will be united. When there is exchange of gifts. But our India followed the principle for begging. "Give me men. Give me money. Give me wheat. Give me rice. Give me war materials." Simply begging. So we must give something. This is the first time we are giving something. Otherwise, India was a beggar simply to the western countries. For their technical education they are going to the western countries, and when there is war, they are asking America, "Please give us war materials." And when they give war materials to Pakistan we become envious. But you are also taking rice, ḍāl for this(?). So why should you remain beggar?

Radio Interview -- May 25, 1975, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Relevance mean you are spirit soul. You are not this body. This thing first you have to understand. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. That is India's philosophy, that "I am spirit soul." And if you realize brahmāsmi, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na... (BG 18.54). As soon as you realize that you are not this material body, you are spirit soul, then immediately you become jolly, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He has no more any hankering for things which he does not possess, no more any lamenting which he has lost. Take, for example, that we have lost our portion of country as Pakistan and fighting since... This was a plan by the British government that divide them in such a way. They will perpetually fight. They will never be happy. This was their plan. That has been successful. But we are lamenting. Both... Pakistan is lamenting or not, I do not know, but Hindustan is lamenting. Gandhi was against this partition. But Jawaharlal Nehru, just to become prime minister, immediately divided.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...call it Jooeypur.(?) Joo-ee(?) Joo-ee.(?) (break) ...America can drop the first bomb in Moscow, then they will come out triumphant. And the Communists will be finished. (break) ...friendship with Pakistan only for this reason. It is just on the border of Russia. If from Pakistan they can drop the first bomb in Moscow. (break)

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: The Hindu groups. That was the point that enraged the government. The same paṇḍitas with the prāyaścitta, they don't like the Mohammedans, they don't like the Christians. They say, "You have created Pakistan, so all the Mohammedans should go there. This is Hindustan."

Prabhupāda: Murvi(?) meat here?

Indian man (1): Not everyone did.

Prabhupāda: Mostly.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Large or small, whatever; there was. But England had no soldiers. Whatever they did—fight—with the Indian soldiers, Gurkha and Sikh. Indian money, Indian soldiers, everything Indian—they were fighting. So when the Britishers saw that "The nationalism has come amongst the soldiers. It is not possible to maintain the Empire," they voluntarily gave indepen.... "Better give us good relations, and our business.... Make some agreement. But before departing, make them weak and divide Pakistan and India."

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Vedic, Vedas, Vedas, that is real, the word. But they have taken it in a different way. Actually the "Hindu," this name is given by the neighbor Muhammadans. There is a river called Sindhu. That river is still there, it is now in Pakistan. So outside the border of India, the Muhammadans, they used to call the inhabitants of the neighborhood of that river Sindhu, Hindu. Because they pronounce s as h. So this is the origin. So "Hindu" is a title given by the Muhammadan neighbors. It is not found in the Vedic literature.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: In India, from Bengal you go Western side. They are very filthy. And go more, more, more Western-filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy.

Harikeśa: Pakistan is the worst. Karachi, I heard, is the worst city in the world almost.

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalam purāṇam.

Harikeśa: These books are exquisite. The books they make in France are just marvelous.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Both of them got sva-rāja, Pakistan and India. That means after getting sva-rāja..., Karachi was one of the first-class city, yes. They cannot manage. Unfit persons, they are on the top of government.

Hari-śauri: Seems everything is devolving at a phenomenal rate. Every decade that passes, everything breaks down twice as fast. Just in the last twenty years or thirty years everything has become so much degraded and...

Prabhupāda: No, I have got experience. I am Calcutta born. What Calcutta was in our childhood days and what is now, I know everything. How we were happy during British days and what is now position, I can speak from my personal experience.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: After Pakistan. They left Peshwar and went to...

Mr. Sahani: No, they were not living there because there was no passport, there was no need of visa, you could anytime come and go. But after independence of Pakistan, at the same time, they made border, and a country of their own, and then these people stayed on this side, and they became Afghans. There are about, oh, six thousand, five, six thousand.

Prabhupāda: Homes.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That must be. It is 2-two-three miles. If he was a person belonging to Venapur, so two-three miles surrounding he must have gone. There is no doubt. And if you can establish good relationship with Pakistan, Bangladesh, then our whole question is solved. Go there, seek some preaching and come here, and all these motor care problems...

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is false idea that by language, linguistic unity there will be... There are so many different examples. Pakistan, they speak Hindi also. Yes, they speak Hindi. And why there is separation? Bangladesh, they speak Bengali. Why they are separated from West Bengal? The linguistic unity is not... Any material platform, there cannot be unity. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54).

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Pakistan has banned cow slaughter. Because they had done away by vengeance, all the cows. They wanted to spite the Hindus, kill the cows.

Hari-śauri: I don't think they kill cows in China either because its economic value is too great.

Prabhupāda: That means they are coming to the sense how cow is important. (pause) It is said that he wants to see me.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sundar island, Sundarban, Bengal.

Dr. Patel: Sundarban has gone in Pakistan side.

Prabhupāda: Still in West Bengal. Sundarban is near Calcutta, about fifty miles.

Dr. Patel: All water-logged country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are big, big tigers, big, big snakes. That Bengal tiger is famous. That tiger, his tail sometimes ten feet.

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is kṣatriya. (Hindi) You take him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Setterji: In the Pakistan time, I fight forty, fifty men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is kṣatriya spirit. If you want to fight...

Setterji: Yes, always.

Prabhupāda: You killed?

Setterji: Yes! So many times.

Prabhupāda: So you have got experience. Huh?

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Anything we can do.

Setterji: Gurujī, one night at the Pakistan front we stay in one place, and forty, fifty men came there, Kuraris and Kundasas. And another fellow which was with me, he was asked to be one of them. So when they came we recognized and we were ready with the revolvers and... The men came and they want to kill us, and we shoot them, five men dead, that time, and the rest ran away. And I took my child, this Brijmohan. He was five days old only. And I took my wife on the back...

Prabhupāda: Five days?

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We haven't had any such experience.

Setterji: I was passing on my car after Pakistan from Laul(?) and they put bomb, hand grenade, and the back glass broken, but we...

Prabhupāda: Saved. Kṛṣṇa saved. Unless Kṛṣṇa saves, who can? So I had the experience of riot in Calcutta in my childhood.

Setterji: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: At any moment.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And where we are selling? Where Christians are there. They are not Hindus, that they'll read Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata and Cai... They're all Christian, Jews, Muslims. In Muslim country we are also selling. Yes.

Indian (1): Iran, Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Iran, Pakistan, Egypt.

Trivikrama: Even Chinese.

Prabhupāda: Chinese, yes. And Chinese... Now we have begun in Russia also.

Indian (1): Let me see Russian edition. (break) Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa... (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: He thought that India is spoiled by American policy, Mr. Dulles's. And he spoiled the pitch, this Mr. Nehru, Nehru, being a flamboyant, highly arrogant man... And then they supported Pakistan, and Americans lost lot of money on these small wars. Instead of that, much money was given away to a poor country. it was Dulles who got United States to this present condition. We should have insulated this country after svaraj, not selling anything, not taking anything. Produce yourself or starve and die. People don't work when they get food like that.

Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What Pakistan has gained by this separation? Actually they have not gained.

Gargamuni: By the separation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Of Bangladesh?

Prabhupāda: No.

Gargamuni: Or of India?

Prabhupāda: India.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes. Very long flight. So I was number 15,000 on the list. Everybody camped out at the airport. Because of the war everyone wanted to leave. So there was a line of 15,000 people. They gave me my number. I was 15,000. So we waited at the airport. I said, "I can't wait here," because the bombs were dropping and the tanks were coming and the troops were coming and... I said, "I gotta get out of here." So I spoke with the commander, and I played him a tape of kīrtana. I had a tape, and they... All the officers, they were Mussulmen from Pakistan, and they started clapping: "Oh, kīrtana." You know. So I asked him, "Could you allow me to go on board before all the others? There's no use in us staying here. Who knows what will happen? We are foreigners." We were dressed as sādhus also. So he allowed us to go on in front of everyone. So we managed to leave.

Prabhupāda: What was the condition at that time, general, during the war?

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And general public?

Gargamuni: And most of the army, they imported the army from Pakistan. These men were six feet tall. These were... They have a certain name.

Prabhupāda: Jatha? No.

Gargamuni: Jatha? No. Rathan or something.

Prabhupāda: Pathan. Pathan.

Gargamuni: Yes. Very huge men.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Why American patronize Pakistan?

Gargamuni: Because... Against Russia. India is with Russia. And China... Also the Pakistanis... When I was in Pakistan, they have great love for the Chinese people. When I was there it was more than the Americans. They liked the Chinese more than the Americans. 'Cause I went to the Karachi University 'cause I thought we could start some preaching there. So I met the professor of philosophy and he had agreed that we could give some lecture, but not on Indian culture but on yoga or something. So the students there were very much... They liked the Chinese. They were always talking, "Oh, China." So China is also opposed to Russia.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And actually India was saved on account of Russia. During the Pakistan and Hindustan fight, there was ninety percent chance that America will openly take part with the Pakistan. And because the Russians were there, seen in the Indian Ocean—they have come with their warfare materials—the Americans stopped, that "It is going to be great conflict." Otherwise that was the chance to take over India by the Pakistanis with American help. That was the plan. That is a great achievement of Indira Gandhi, that (s)he, tactfully showing herself in the side of Russia, (s)he separated Bangladesh from Pakistan, and Pakistan is physically finished, that great achievement, separated Bangladesh. Now Pakistan has no value.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Pakistan is finished.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan is finished, because the Bangladesh was supplying jute, rice, pan, great business.

Rāmeśvara: The government of Bangladesh was just murdered.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They were all murdered.

Prabhupāda: It is due to this American CIA.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is due to this American CIA. Therefore I...

Rāmeśvara: Now they may again become lined up with Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: That is politics. Once you become strong; once I become... That is struggle. It will go on. You cannot stop.

Rāmeśvara: It's also commonly known that in the West the banks supplied money to Lenin to fight his revolution. They have no discrimination. If it seems like it is a good chance for making interest...

Prabhupāda: Therefore Hitler killed these Jews. They were financing against Germany. Otherwise he had no enmity with the Jews.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes, to make their choice: "You can join either Pakistan or India."

Guest (1): Or remain independent also.

Prabhupāda: They wanted to make nil India. The Hyderabad state was given choice. Kashmir was given choice, whichever, Hindustan or Pakistan. That is still going on, the Kashmir.

Guest (1): Even in Orissa, small states just like Mariwan(?) and Venkana(?), they were independent before that time, till Sardar Patel(?) came in and asked them to...

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... No, he says there is possible, that Gauḍīya Maṭha. If in Pakistan, in Bangladesh, if he can organize one center, it will be great triumph.

Satsvarūpa: Dacca.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana and prasādam distribution. This is our preaching mainly. And if they hear little philosophy, that is very good. Otherwise simply kīrtana and prasādam distribution is sufficient. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to do that. He was not speaking philosophy to everyone. Kīrtana and prasāda distribution. So our men can perform very nice kīrtana, and if they come to take little prasādam, that is preaching. You have to maintain this standard, that kīrtana must go on and prasādam should be distributed.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Gain means they are now finished. They have gained this. They have no prestige, no money.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was their gain from dividing India and Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that, that is enviousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just spiteful enviousness.

Prabhupāda: Enviousness. Just like, you like..., who has done something wrong to you, you like to do some wrong, harm.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the east side of Bengal. And rice was coming from there too.

Prabhupāda: So their staple food is rice and fish.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: East Bengal is very wealthy from that point of view. Rice.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan was rich only on account of East Bengal. The pān. Practically it supplies pān to all over India. And betel nut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a place that we have not...

Prabhupāda: And milk also produced in very large quantity. East Bengal is rich in vegetables, milk, fish.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You take. We are speaking from the authoritative statements of Bhagavad-gītā. We are not manufacturing anything. That is not our business.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we just received a letter from Pakistan. I thought you might be interested to hear along with Mr. Jethmalani. It describes some very interesting preaching that went on there. It is just a short paragraph if I could read it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's from your disciple Ātreya Ṛṣi.

Prabhupāda: Hm. He went there?

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda sent Ātreya Ṛṣi to Pakistan. He writes, "My dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to you who are the only guiding light in the world of darkness. India is that holy land in which the Supreme Personality of Godhead Lord Śrī Caitanya appeared and in whose inhabitants He instructed to go all over the world and spread the science of love of Godhead. It is in this way that I realize your emphasizing the activities of ISKCON in India after your very successful endeavoring in the West. Pakistan is a nonseparable part of India, and I appreciate your compassion towards them and your desire to help them."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, this gentleman who has written this letter from Pakistan, he is a big businessman. He is the head of a very, very large business consultant firm in Iran. But in his free time he also tries to do a little preaching work.

Prabhupāda: He is a very responsible officer. What is his position?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is the managing director of Arthur Young and Company. It's a big international firm of chartered accountants.

Ram Jethmalani: Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (Hindi) Thank you very much.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Devotee: Next week we are going to Pakistan also.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan we have got a friend. You go and he will receive. So what is the conclusion of Ātreya Ṛṣi? (break) Read it. (break) ...have been introduced in the world. That's a fact. All hodge-podge nonsense, philosophy nonsense, everything, speculation. No solid instruction about the necessity or goal of life. Do you accept this or not?

Devotee: Fortunate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You must be convinced. Otherwise you cannot convince others. (end)

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There is no excepting an Englishman. So anyway, you make these four men, subcommittee, and you take whatever land is given, given up to Kṛṣṇa. Then pick up selected persons from each family and make a strong body. And then we organize Burma and Bangladesh. And he's going to Ceylon. Formerly India, Burma, Ceylon, they were one. And somebody's going to Pakistan. So there is chance of uniting all these different parts of India by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have to organize. At least you organize here, Manipur center, Burma, and Bangladesh, and Assam. It will be successful.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now they are fighting. (break) ...they have ruined.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not considered a very high birth.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're like animals. You never know what they will do. We were again reading about rāma-rājya, and Lord Rāma decided to go out and to hear what the citizens were saying. So in one home He heard that there was some doubt. Sītādevī was pregnant. There was some doubt about it. Immediately He decided that She had to be sent away. So exemplary, His character. It's described how He was distributing. He distributed everything He had, and He had nothing but the clothes left, and Sītā had nothing but Her nose ring. And the brāhmaṇas were so overwhelmed that they could understand that He was the Supreme Personality of Godhead and yet He was such an ideal king that they gave Him everything back. So there is no such dealings like this nowadays between the government and the citizens. Rather, they elect some leader and then they rebel and try to kill the leader. Just like in Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill this Bhutto.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? There was attempt to kill?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I mean they'd like to somehow rid themselves of him.

Prabhupāda: Pakistan is spoiled now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there any chance of uniting with India again, Pakistan?

Prabhupāda: They will.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?

Prabhupāda: Because otherwise they are finished.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Because otherwise they are finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They've already lost Bangladesh. That's half of Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: They have no economic position. Very poor. Very, very poor. No international relationship. Even their plane does not go international. Within the... They have no means to go. And who will, international plane, they will take, Pakistan?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no one.

Prabhupāda: Neither, except Iran plane, nobody can fly over. I have seen it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Air India does also.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are some flights, Air India flights. That's natural because there's business connection, India and Pakistan. Only Iranian planes...

Prabhupāda: Most unclean.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you think that they'll reunite.

Prabhupāda: If they want good. Separation on the religious consideration, that was the mistake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was...?

Prabhupāda: Great mistake.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was the cause?

Prabhupāda: The cause was Pakistan and India. Pakistan is accusing India, and India is accusing Pakistan in United Nations.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So when Pakistan accused India, he became so shocked that he fainted?

Prabhupāda: No, no. They were talking, barking. He was barking, and he was barking. One barking dog became fainted. (laughs) That's all. Nobody could achieve anything.

Room Conversation -- October 9, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He opened a branch in Pakistan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did he open a branch in Pakistan?

Rāmeśvara: Not yet. There's one woman in Karachi who is Hindu woman. But her husband was a governor, one of the governors in Pakistan. He was a Muslim and he just died. And now she wants to reestablish her Hindu faith. She contacted me in Los Angeles and she wants to help open the temple in Pakistan. So I have given the name and address to Ātreya. (leads kīrtana) (break)

Prabhupāda: That will be our excellent achievement. This is our mission, the... Whatever we have got, teach others. In this spread. The whole world is chanting. Did you recite the verses in Fiji?