Outward (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"outward" |"outwardly" |"outwards"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsīn, the restriction is the sannyāsī should not beg from pound-shilling man or see them. That is a restriction. Women and men of pounds-shillings-pence.

Hayagrīva: But I thought Rāmānanda Rāya was a devotee.

Prabhupāda: But he was devotee, but undoubtedly, but outwardly he was a governor. Outwardly. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go him, but he understood that "Here is a nice sannyāsī." He came down and offered his respect and sat down before Him. And there was acquaintances, and Lord Caitanya said that "Bhaṭṭācārya has already informed Me about you. You are a great devotee. So I have come to see you." And then he replied, "Well, what devotee? I am a pound-shilling man, politician. But Bhaṭṭācārya is very kind to me that he has asked Your Holiness to see me. So if You have come, so kindly, kindly deliver me from this material māyā." So there was appointment of time with Rāmānanda Rāya and both of them met again in the evening and there was discussion about, I mean to say, spiritual advancement of life. Lord Caitanya inquired from him and Rāmānanda Rāya replied. Of course, that's a long story, how He questioned and how he replied.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, listening or thinking, these are different process of acquiring knowledge, but you are doing that.

Guest (1): Yes, my outer form is doing that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): But inner form may be...

Prabhupāda: What is that inner form? You are inner form. Your outer, your coat, is not thinking. Your shirt is not thinking. What you mean by outward, inward? Inward you are. Outward your coat and shirt. Do you think your coat and shirt is thinking? You are thinking.

Guest (1): Yes, I am thinking, but, you see...

Prabhupāda: There is no "but." You are thinking.

Guest (1): I am thinking. One is at the lower level, and one is at the higher...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Either in the lower level or in the higher level, you are thinking.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Prabhupāda: Any life. That is religion.

Interviewer: It has never been interpreted that way.

Prabhupāda: But you have interpreted different way, but he said "Thou shall not kill." He never said "Thou shall not kill amongst human being." Why do you interpret in that way?

Interviewer: How would I recognize a true follower of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by his behavior? What would his traits be? What would his outward expressions be?

Prabhupāda: Yes. His behavior, he's a perfect gentleman. That's all. You cannot find any fault in him. That is perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are prohibited not to eat meat.

Interviewer: Not to eat meat?

Prabhupāda: No. They are prohibited from illicit sex life. They are prohibited to intoxication. They do not smoke even, what to speak of other intoxications. And they are prohibited not to indulge in gambling. So if they can observe these four rules and regulations, they become perfect men. Simply.

Room Conversation -- December 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: In any body, any circumstances, you can cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But not material. But people, they do not know. They think that "Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is no need, but let me improve my bodily comfort." This is called illusion. He cannot improve, even by an inch, the burden, but still... But you can improve, or you can purify, your consciousness. That is open to you, oh, irrespective of bodily (indistinct). And that is actually happening. You have got a different body from the before. (indistinct) But everyone, your taking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Kṛṣṇa says, "It doesn't matter what kind of body you have got-low born, or high born, or this born or that born. I have no such restriction. If you want Me, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), you are all My parts and parcels. Every one of you are equally important to Me." And similarly, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa also sees. He does not see the outward cover. He sees that "Every living entity is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So he is now forgetful of his real position. So let us help him that he may come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and become successful." This is our position. There is no question of bodily barrier. Ahaituky apratihatā. Bhakti line is so nice that there is no cause and effect. Cause and effect is for this body. Karmaṇā, by my previous activity, I get a certain type, particular type of body, cause and effect. That is not applicable in devotional service. Ahaituky apratihatā. "Because I am high-born, I will have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." No. Or "Because I am low-born, I cannot have Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is not. Ahaituky. There is no such cause and effect. Apratihatā. Apratihatā, without any barrier. Everyone.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Bob: If two people are Kṛṣṇa conscious, is their soul the same?

Prabhupāda: Soul is always the same.

Bob: In each person. In each person is it the same?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Soul, as spirit soul, pure soul, they are all equal. Even in animal. Therefore it is said, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), means those who are actually learned, they do not see the outward covering, either human being or animal.

Bob: Oh, then they are all equal and the same, or just equal? Are they equal and the same, or are they just equal?

Prabhupāda: No, equal and the same. Qualitatively and quantitatively.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life. One should be interested in the eternal interest of life." This is our mission, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I'll request you all, ladies and gentlemen present here. Sindhis are generally opulent and religious also, I know. Formerly, when some of our Godbrothers were going to preach in Karachi, they received very well. Now it is Pakistan. Otherwise all Sindhis, they have a special reception for saintly persons. They are religious persons. So you are all here. I think you should open a very nice center for preaching this gospel. And we have no discrimination. We accept anyone because we do not see the outward body. Just a gentleman is not interested with the outward dress, he is interested with the person he talks. Similarly, we are interested to see every person as spirit soul. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Paṇḍita means learned. Sama-darśinaḥ.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: "One who is actually learned, he sees everyone equally, either he is a very learned scholar or he is a dog or he is a caṇḍāla or he is an elephant." So how the learned scholar and dog can be seen on the equal level? Not that the dog and the learned scholar is equal, but seeing them equally means to see the spirit soul within the body. That vision. Outwardly, by the body, one is learned scholar and one is a dog. That is outwardly. But inwardly, everyone is spirit soul, Brahman. That is called brahma-darśana. So if people are taught about this philosophy, then all these distinctions and creation of different kinds of problems—the Chinese or Communists, the Americans or capitalists, and so many differences we have created, and for that purpose there is fight, there is competition, there is enmity, enviousness, so this is due to ignorance. Or, in one word, it is due to lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore we have taken this path of our social improvement in the human society. Let us cooperate. So this is nice place. You have decorated nice. Everything is nice so far the little place is concerned. How many rooms you have got?

Bhūrijana: This is it. Prabhupāda: Only one room.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Guest (1): ...the universalism of it's very appealing.

Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America. We say that you are neither Christian nor American, Hindu, Muslim or Indian. You are servant of God eternally. Try to understand this fact, and make your life in that way. Then your life is successful. This is all. Simple.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Guest (1): Are spirit souls alike, or are they different?

Prabhupāda: Alike. (laughter) The dress is different, the spirit soul is the same. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne

brāhmaṇe gavi hastini

śuni caiva śva-pāke ca

paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

(BG 5.18)

Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. A learned, really learned man, he sees everyone on the same level, because he sees to the spirit and he is (indistinct) that a learned brāhmaṇa, a dog, an elephant, a low-born, everyone is on the same category of spirit soul. That is the vision of a learned scholar. He does not make any discrimination that "Here is a dog" or "Here is a very learned scholar." His vision is the dog is also entangled by this body and a learned scholar is also entangled by this body, but both the dog and the learned scholar, both of them are spirit soul. That is actual vision. The same example, that I am talking with you, not with your dress. I am not very much concerned with your white dress or black dress. I am concerned with you as person. Similarly, we are concerned with the soul, not with the outward body. That is our position. Yes?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming Indian or Indonesian or African or Asian or this or that. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. You know. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śvapāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Because paṇḍita does not see the outward dress, paṇḍita sees the inside, who is putting on the dress. Therefore, without misinterpreting Bhagavad-gītā, or being misled by so-called big, big leaders, if you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is, it will be very nice, beneficial to everyone. That is my, not opinion, but is the fact. Things should be taken as it is. Call a spade a spade. Now, interpretation is required when things are not clear. When things are not very clear, not easily understood... There is example in Sanskrit grammar, gaṅgāyāṁ ghoṣa bali(?). The neighborhood of ghoṣa family is on the Ganges. Now, on the Ganges-Ganges is water—how there can be a village? Now, here interpretation required. When the matter is (break) ...on the water but on the bank of the Ganges. So when the meaning is not clear, then you can interpret. But when the meaning is clear... Just like Bhagavad-gītā: dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). Now Kurukṣetra is still there, in..., about 90 miles away from Delhi. Perhaps you have been there. The station is there, Kurukṣetra. Now how one can interpret that kurukṣetra means this body? This is going on. In spite of clear understanding, they interpret in their own way so that they have got their own philosophy, they want to support. This is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Six kinds of changes, matter. Birth, then growing... Matter grows also. Just like the body has grown. It was very small, pea-like body in the beginning, and it grows. So birth, growth, maintenance for some time, then by-product. There are some by-products. And then dwindling, then finished. This is matter. But life has no such change. When the life is within the matter, it appears that it is taking birth or death. Life will come. One phase of this change, accept. And when it cannot be maintained anymore, just like this body, when it is too old it cannot maintain. Just like dress. When it is too old we change. So these things are there. The matter is... Life is existing. Life has no change. The change is outward, material thing. In all respects we have to prove that life does not come from matter. Matter generates from life, stays for some time, and it is finished. Again begins another chapter.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Adhyaki, adhyaki(?), therefore adhyaki(?).

Revatīnandana: What's that?

Prabhupāda: External. Adhyaki(?). (indistinct) ...one is interested in the body not in the soul. So he is a fool. This, this sculptor, he is simply interested in the outward body, he has no knowledge of the soul. And he wants to become a very famous man, remaining in the category of asses. Because one who is in the bodily concept of life, he is an ass. Go-khara, khara means ass. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is in the bodily concept of life he is no better than animal. The cats and dogs, they are also in the bodily concept of life. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So he has not advanced beyond these cats and dogs because he is in the same conception, that I am this body. A dog cannot understand that you are not this body. So similarly, if the human being cannot understand that he is not this body, what is the difference between him and the dog? So śāstra says sa eva go-kharaḥ: (SB 10.84.13) he's no better than the cows and the asses. That's all. And actually it is a fact. The first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, they cannot take it, and they're scholars. That is the most regrettable situation that these fools and rascals under the bodily concept of life, they are become authorities. Actually they are asses. Yes.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (1) (British young man): You said that the four pillars that you follow are outward manifestations. They belong to a material person.

Prabhupāda: Outward manifestation?

Guest 1: Hm.

Prabhupāda: So outward manifestation... Just like outwardly, iron rod, it is iron. Iron. Do you follow me?

Mrs. Wells: Yes, iron.

Prabhupāda: But you put the iron in the fire...

Mrs. Wells: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the iron becomes warm, warmer, and then at last, it becomes red-hot. When the iron is red-hot, it is no longer iron. It is fire. If you touch anywhere, it will burn. Although apparently it is iron rod, but because it has become red-hot, it is fire. Similarly, if you constantly keep in spiritual activities, your outward body, although it is iron and matter, it becomes spiritualized. Try to understand this example. Iron rod put into the fire, when it is red-hot, it is no longer iron rod. It is fire. Similarly this body, although material, if you constantly keep in touch with spiritual activities, then it is no longer material. It is spiritual. The body's also spiritual.

Mrs. Wells: And how long do you think this takes to...

Prabhupāda: So long you keep in spiritual activities.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: The soul, the soul, the soul is, is human soul. In the animal you have some psychologic existence, but not life of spirit with freedom, with mind and with the reality of spirit. But you have the same idea because you said that there is a difference of nature between spiritual creation and the material world. You know, the material world is not of the same essence than the spiritual world. And the man, the man is a part of spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Bhagavad-gītā says: sarva-yoniṣu. "In all species of life, as many forms are there, so the spirit soul is there." This outward body is just like a dress. You may have a very costly dress, and I may have a very shabby, poor dress, but both of us are human being, or living entities. Similarly these different forms of living entities, they are just like different types of dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Just like you are in black dress. I am in saffron dress...

Cardinal Danielou: Yellow, yes.

Prabhupāda: So this is external. But within the dress you are a human being, I am also human being. Similarly, there are eight million four hundred thousands of dresses. There are nine hundred thousand dresses within the water, aquatics.

Room Conversation with Graham Hill Former World Champion Race Car Driver -- London, August 26, 1973:

Graham Hill: Are all spiritual bodies the same? I mean, is your spiritual body exactly the same as...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Spiritually you are all the same. Just like as human beings you are all the same but you may have a black dress, I may have a saffron dress, he may have white dress. This is outward covering. This is not myself. Similarly, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body the spirit soul is there and he is changing different types of bodies. So when he accepts a process, this going back to home, back to Godhead, to Kṛṣṇa, then he hasn't got to accept any more material body. He remains in his own spiritual body. And spiritual body by original constitution it is eternal. Eternal. Nityaṁ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin. This is a description of it.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are richer section when the rice was selling at three rupees per mound, and the richer section is still there when rice is selling, nine rupees a kilo. So they have no eyes because less intelligent. They cannot make equal. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, in the prakṛti there are three modes of material nature. They will be manifested. It is not possible to make everyone of the same standard, the standard must be different. So they are simply spoiling their time to make the whole society on the same status. The communists are trying, the others are trying. That is not possible. So one should not be disturbed with all these superficial low and high places. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says,

yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete

puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha

sama-duḥkha-sukhaṁ dhīraṁ

so 'mṛtatvāya kalpate

One is not disturbed with this outwards happiness and distress, he's eligible to become immortal. Saḥ amṛtatvāya. How? (Hindi) Yaṁ hi... (break) ...amṛta, eternal. And that is perfection. And that is going back to home, back to Godhead. But they do not know what is the aim of life. Still, they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31), leaders are blind, and they're leading blind men. Therefore there is always disaster, confusion. Guest (1): The aim of life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Prabhupāda: Yes. Aim is go back to Godhead, back to home. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). That is our aim. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā. Yes.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we admit. But we are not material. We are spiritual. That is...

Banker: Correct. You are not talking about the physical.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Physical is my outward dress. Just like your coat, if it becomes old enough, there is no more possibility to use it. You have to throw it away. You have to take another coat. Similarly, physically, I am spirit soul. When my physical body is old enough, useless, then I will have to give it up. I will have to accept another new body. But the question is that I am eternal; why I am forced to accept a body which will be useless after some time? That is the problem. I am eternal, as spirit soul. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die after the annihilation of this body. But why I am forced to accept another body, which will be annihilated? This technology is unknown all over the world. And still they are proud of becoming very advanced in science.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, the scientists, they do not understand the five kinds of air.

Prabhupāda: They do not know so many things. What they will understand? Because they do not understand, therefore it has to be rejected. They are fools. What do they understand? Superfluous. Simply they see something outward. Just like they see the tree, but what do they understand about the seed? What do they understand? The tree is coming from the seed, but what do they understand about the seed? They see the tree, that's all. Like a child sees the tree and "Oh, it is a big tree." But intelligent man sees the seed.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: But later, lately, we've been reading in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam how Arjuna's potency was gone. He was not even able to protect Kṛṣṇa's wives. What was missing there?

Prabhupāda: No, that, that, that is a example, that without Kṛṣṇa's help, everything is useless. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa's wife can be stolen away by others, the plan was different. But the outward show is that without Kṛṣṇa's mercy, nothing can be successful. Even you have got the same bow, same arrows, same man. But Kṛṣṇa... We must depend... That is trust. We have to depend on Kṛṣṇa's mercy. At the same time, we have to work. That is required. It may be Arjuna was proud that "I am Arjuna. I am taking them. Who can touch them?" That proudness. You see? And might be. It is quite natural.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: He says he only sees light when he closes his eyes.

Prabhupāda: Close?

Prajāpati: Like this.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, close or open...

Devotee: Inner light.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Inner light, not outward light. Then he is not absolute. He is relative. He is relative. He is not absolute. So God is absolute. But you are relative. Therefore you are not God.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. But we are taking it, "Now we have got very nice house, room. Let us sleep and eat."

Viṣṇujana: Then there'll be wide criticism.

Prabhupāda: That is... This is not good.

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: You should remain always sannyāsī within. Outwardly, for others' convenience, you may do something. Similarly, we are accepting this varṇāśrama. We are not varṇāśrama; we are above varṇāśrama. But to give others facility to come to the stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this program must be done.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji was never asking anything, for medicine much.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.

Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.

Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. So we can distinguish what is Kṛṣṇa's body and what is our body. (break) ...understand. Try to understand, that what is the nature... That is called spiritual body. So we have got also similar body, but very small, very small. That is covered by this material body. And because in the spiritual body I am person, I have got form, therefore the material elements have taken a form. Just like when your coat is made, it is made according to your body. Because you have got hands, so the coat has got a hand. But the hand of the coat is not real. The real hand is within the coat. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Within. These foolish people, they do not understand. They take, "This is hand. This is hand." He does not know that this hand is artificial, outward. Real hand is within. This is their misconception. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Try to understand. These are very important question. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Because within the coat the real man is there, therefore the dress has assumed two hands, two legs, one collar, like that. But this is false, like dress. Real... Therefore every living entity has got form. He is not formless. This less intelligent class of men, because they cannot see the form... It is so small... It is so small that if you divide the top portion of your hair into ten thousand parts,...

Italian Man (1): Your one hair into ten thousand parts. Prabhupāda: The top portion, tip of the hair, the point, you divide into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the form of the soul. It is such minute, small... Because they cannot see, they say it is nirākāra. No, it is not nirākāra. It is there.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: There's a saying that when you throw a stone in a pack of dogs, the one who is hit will scream. (break)

Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written. (break) ...one has passed stool, during daytime, due to the sunshine, the upper side is dry. So if somebody says, "This side is better than the other side. The moist side is not so good. The dry side is good." (break) ...nation, you'll find (indistinct) gentlemen, but they do not know that these things are criminals. They think it is ordinary thing, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication.

Dr. Patel: Natural.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They say it is ordinary necessities. (break) Therefore we call mūḍhās. They do not know what is what.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Yogeśvara: It's our custom in Vedic tradition that anyone who comes is offered graciously foodstuffs...

Richard Webster: Oh, thank you, yes, I've been here quite long. Thank you.

Yogeśvara: Maybe you can stay just for a moment.

Richard Webster: Yes, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. In the Vedic civilization even an enemy comes to your home, he should be offered respect. Take more. Now, these foodstuffs are meant for human being. They are not meant for cats and dogs. You should produce more of this foodstuff. And the remaining balance, the skin, you can offer to the animal. They will eat. You take the substance, and the outward, external skin you offer to the animals, and he will eat. She gives you milk. This is cooperation. You produce... Man can produce fruits and flowers, grains, take the substance, and the rejected portion give to the animal. She gives you milk. You require milk. This is cooperation.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Analogy is, means where there is no spiritual sensation, that is matter. (French)

Karandhara: It's just merely meant to be an illustration, not that you're supposed to compare everything all the way around. The body is also material; the nail is also material. The point is that that which is not sensed spiritually by the true identity of the soul, that which is experienced outwardly by the material body and the senses, that is matter. But the basic element, or the basic consciousness is spiritual, and that's eternal. Whereas the sensation from outward, like what I see today and taste today, that is temporary, but the taster, the seer, he is eternal, the self. (French)

Prabhupāda: As soon as that spirit soul will be off from this body, this part of the body also will be without any sensation. Therefore the distinction of sensation and no sensation is due to the presence of the spirit soul. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says the important thing is the basic principles. If you accept the basic principle, for example that the soul has a form, then we can discuss many many things afterwards.

Prabhupāda: Yes, soul has a form.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, Islam religion, (indistinct) reject it (indistinct). As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore, we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? But the pant practically is not the leg, the real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form, this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within. Asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there would be no controversy, but they cannot see. Therefore, they say "formless". If it is formless then how the outward form comes about? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hand, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect in the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Devotee (1): They said that the man cannot be convicted of rape if he honestly believes that the woman consented to his raping her.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, "Yes, I felt happiness." So he was released. "Here is consent." And that's a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, "Yes, I felt some pleasure." "Now, there is consent." So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That's a psychology. It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, you can fall down unconsciously. But if you fall consciously, that is cheating. I do not want. I am trying to keep myself steady, but still, if I fall, that is excused. But if you purposely... Just like the Christian atonement. They go to the church and admit, "Yes, I have done these sinful activities, so I pay you something. Excuse it." That is not sincerity. And again, next week, he does the same thing. That is not sincerity.

Paramahaṁsa: What would an example of unconscious falldown be?

Prabhupāda: Unconscious falldown, that... Suppose I am prone to... I was very much fond of smoking, but I have given up. So in a society there is smoking, so I become induced. He offers me cigarette, and unconsciously I smoke. Then I must repent, "Oh, what I have done?" That is excused. But if I secretly smoke and outwardly I show I am a devotee, then what is this? This is cheating.

Devotee (1): Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that sometimes the living entities are compelled to act because of lust.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: You're thinking more of an international world than a national world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with that. I certainly don't.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we want to do: one God, one state, one scripture, and one activity. That is the ultimate end of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like we are from different countries. We don't think as nationalism, that "I am American," "I am Indian." No. We all think that "We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa." And they are working in that spirit. It is possible. If this idea is accepted in that United Nation, it can be done. But they will not accept. They are going go be united, but everyone is thinking, "First of all my interest." All cheating. They are outwardly, "Now we have come to the United Nation," but no one is going to be united. Everyone is thinking, "It is my first interest first. I must give veto if he's opposing." This is going on. Therefore for the last twenty years or more than that, they are trying to be united, but it is becoming disunited. The flags are increasing. In New York they have got their headquarters. When I pass through, I see that another flag has increased.

So this United Nations is a failure and it will be failure because there is no God consciousness.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: There are over eleven million people in the United States just living on welfare. (break)

Gurukṛpa: ...big calamity such as a big earthquake, like that, then...

Prabhupāda: We shall return now?

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Gurukṛpa: Then they request everyone to pray to God for help. Outside of that, they will not have any interest.

Prabhupāda: But the Communists will not do. Even they are in danger, at least outwardly they will not do. This is passenger ship, eh?

Śrutakīrti: Yeah, it appears ...

Gurukṛpa: About fifty years ago they made a ship called the Titanic.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpa: And they were very proud, but it smashed into an iceberg.

Prabhupāda: We were children at that time. Not children, we were young men. The first voyage, it was finished. And all big men were there. It was assured that "It will never drown."

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: In other words, that, what is considered scientific fact, that changes according to the social ideas that are prevalent in a particular time.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Social ideas, there is no standard social idea. That is another thing. You can change in any way. But so far physiological conditions, that has not changed. The feature of the woman's body has not changed. So how the brain will change? The bodily feature of woman as it was in 1920, it is still going on. Outwardly we see. So how inwardly it is changed? In 1920 the woman was becoming pregnant; there is no change now that man is pregnant. So how you say there is change?

Brahmānanda: I don't know, but she said that they have spoken to scientists and that scientists say that the woman's brain... Now a scientist says a woman's brain and a man's brain is not different.

Morning Walk -- September 4, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: Adolf Hitler adopted the idea of Aryan, but his criteria for Aryan was one who had blond hair and blue eyes.

Prabhupāda: That is bodily. (chuckles) That is another foolishness. Just like we have dress. So this dress of sannyāsī is not all. I must be real sannyāsī in knowledge, in education, in behavior, not that... Hitler studies by the dress. That is the foolishness. It is not by the dress, but by the quality. Dress is also required. As I am sannyāsī, I cannot dress otherwise. That is also essential. But if one judges, "Here is a sannyāsī," then he'll misled. That is being done. People are being exploited in the dress of a sannyāsī, although actually he is not sannyāsa. That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. "A sannyāsī or a brāhmaṇa will be accepted by the outward feature." If somebody has got a thread only, two paisa worth, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. And when one takes a daṇḍa, he becomes a sannyāsī. This will be the identification in the Kali-yuga.

Brahmānanda: So the Ramakrishna philosophy...

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna philosophy is nonsense.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: So in a sense, what a lot of people are saying today is that we must look inwards rather than outwards into the world of the senses.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Inward means that you are spirit soul; you are not this body. But if you keep your bodily concept of life, then where is inward? It is outward only.

Faill: It's just another way of looking out.

Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (entering car) Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Over the Muslims.

Prabhupāda: No, Britishers. The Muslims interfered. They wanted to propagate Islamism. Not all, some of them. But Britishers, although they were spreading Christianism, still, outwardly they were neutral about religious affairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura preferred that "Britishers are good. They do not interfere with our religious affair." So the idea is that India—you may say primitive or whatever you want—they wanted to make progress of the soul. They did not care who is ruling. So "Whatever tax is due we shall pay. Let us do our own business." That was India's attitude. They never thought in terms of nationalism. That was never educated. They were never educated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (to driver) Go down this street, Prabhu.

Prabhupāda: Nationalism was unknown to India. They never thought.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: So now the older section of the Indians, they should give up their family life and live in this temple, cultivate this spiritual life and preach. You see. There will be very nice relationship.

Indian woman: Everyone, every state, this is true. Sometimes I go to preaching. I not looking "Asian," or such and such. Anyone I go to preach.

Prabhupāda: We are all part and parcel of God. The outward dress only makes difference that "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am this." Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Therefore one who is learned, he does not make that difference. That is accidental, that by... You can say acci... That is also not accidental, but some way or other, it has become so. The dress is different. But our movement is not with the dress but with the living being who has the dress. This is movement. Our, this is completely spiritual movement.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Did you know this bhūteṣu tiṣṭhantaṁ parameśvaram? Na hināsty ātmāna ātmānam tathāpy ātmā... How shall you explain that, sir? Samaṁ sarveṣu bhūteṣu tiṣṭhantaṁ parameśvaram.

Prabhupāda: Sarvaṁ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 13.28), that I have explained so many times. If you see materially either dog or a big brāhmaṇa, the body is the same material. Body, when you dissect the body you find the same blood, same muscle, same bone. That's all. That is material. And spiritually they are atmān. Therefore sama-darśinaḥ. From that point of view, from basic point of view. Not that he is seeing a brāhmaṇa and dog equal. No. Not that. He is seeing the outward and inward. Inward is spirit. That is one. And outward, matter, that is one.

Dr. Patel: Another is śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the same thing, because he does not see the form; he sees the ingredients. Just like there are so many earthen pots, dolls. So any sane man knows that these are all made of earth. That's all. That vision is wanted, but these rascals, they are thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am fat," "I am this," "I am that." Therefore they are imperfect.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You see, when a man is diseased there are many symptoms of ailments. You cannot say.... You are a physician. You know. You cannot say, "This is the cause of the disease." It is.... Real, one disease is there, and there are so many ailments. So you cannot say...

Dr. Patel: :You mean the cause of the cause of the cause is godlessness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Symptoms are there.

Dr. Patel: Cause of the cause of the cause.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are only outward...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are.... In logic there are two causes: immediate cause and remote cause. So remote cause is taken into consideration.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (1): I've heard that you use the example that spirit has form and therefore the body also has similar form, just as a hand has a form in a glove, it's the hand's similar form. So how can we understand that the trees have a certain form? That..., is there spirit in the form of a tree?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Then how do we explain the transmigration of the soul?

Prabhupāda: This outward is a form. What is the difficulty? Describe.

Pradyumna: Just as this human body has a human form, we say that because this body has a form, the soul also must have form.

Devotee (1): Talking about the transmigration then.

Pradyumna: Just as the glove has a certain form because the hand is shaped like that, the material body of a human has that form because the spirit is in that form? And the tree has that form because the spirit is in that form?

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: How is that spiritual dimension realized?

Prabhupāda: One has to realize that he's not this body, he's spirit soul, and the spirit soul is within the body, and after annihilation of this body, the spirit soul is transferred to another body. So there are 8,400,000 different forms of life. And we have to transmigrate to any one of these forms. So today I am in American body or Indian body, very comfortably situated, but at the time of death my particular mentality will transfer me to a particular type of body. Exactly like if a man infects some contagious disease he has to develop that disease. It is very subtle material laws. So similarly, we are composed of gross body and subtle body. The gross body is made of this earth, water, air, fire, ether, like this. And the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. And the spirit soul is within that outward gross and subtle bodies. When the gross body is annihilated, the subtle body, mind, carries the soul to a similar body as he was thinking at the time of death. It is, example is given... Just like the flavor of a rose garden is carried by the air or the bad odor of a filthy place is also carried by the air, similarly, mind, intelligence carries me to a particular type of body as I was absorbed in thought at the time of death.

Interviewer: What is the ultimate?

Prabhupāda: Ultimate is that you are spirit soul, you are being materially engrossed, you are creating different situations and you are being transferred to different bodies. That is different situations.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Goal is there, because spirit is important. Without spirit, matter has no value. This is a material box, but because it has no spirit, it has no value. It has value, comparatively, but not as valuable as a human being because there is no spirit. You can move, if you like, you can go immediately, but this, for many thousands of years it will lie down here. It cannot move. Because there is no spirit. Therefore spirit is important. So this distinction is possible to understand in the human form of body. What is the distinction between a human being or a living man and this box? The distinction is that the living being has the spirit soul within and the box has no spirit soul within. Now if we take care of this box outwardly, that we should take; similarly if you take care of the body only, then where is spiritual culture? If you take care of the four principles of bodily necessities, eating, sleeping and sex and defense, then where is spiritual culture? The aim should be spiritual culture, at least for human beings. The cats and dogs, they cannot understand what is the distinction between spirit and soul, er, spirit and matter, but a human being can understand. This is spiritual side, this is material side. The spiritual side is important. Therefore the goal is how to understand the spiritual side. That is the goal. If we don't cultivate the spiritual side, simply we take care of the bodily side, then we remain animals. And because people are taking only care for the body, this is animal civilization. Human civilization means to take care of the spiritual side. If there is no such attempt to take care of the spiritual side, simply for the material side, then we are no better than the animals. Because they cannot take any care of the spiritual side. They can take care of the material side.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Jñānagamya: They allow some and then they differentiate, they try to see who is going to be...

Prabhupāda: That means you are violate the laws of God. Every place is God's place, so you're all God's sons. You can go anywhere. Unless I do something harm, you cannot check me. In the airport, everyone is checked. That means everyone is dishonest. Nowadays everyone is checked. So in the airport, the passengers, at least it is to be supposed they are paying so much fare, they are all respectable gentlemen. But nobody is to be trusted. They are all dishonest. This is your position. Even though you are outwardly respectable gentlemen, the airport authorities accept you as dishonest, to be checked. This is the effect of your education, everyone is dishonest. (lamb crying in background) Why the lamb is crying? Eh? The lamb?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they have lamb.

Prabhupāda: So they do not give the lamb to eat something?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They... I don't know, maybe they took the mother away or something.

Prabhupāda: No, I hear this sound always somewhere. No, they keep the lambs for killing, eh? But before killing, do they not supply any food? They starve?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They're very cruel. They don't have any human qualification.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, you are... They are mistaken. But if you have to awaken Kṛṣṇa bhakti, why you go to the lepers?

Minister: No, they have come here. They are all there in the temple. They are not allowing others to pray properly. They are all, one thousand... In the past...

Prabhupāda: We have no objection, because our principle is kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. So Kṛṣṇa bhakti is there in everyone. So leper and non-leper. Just like our Vivekananda, he took up daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is an absurd proposition. Nārāyaṇa is never daridra. But if you put this argument, that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, so if Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, why you take up only daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa also? If you have got so broad vision that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere, therefore we see everyone, so why you particularly take the daridra-nārāyaṇa? Similarly, Kṛṣṇa bhakti is everywhere. It is in the leper or non-leper. So why should we take particularly the lepers? So that is outwardly a social service that they are taking care of the leper. So if that vision it will not be right. Kṛṣṇa bhakti even requires, even a karmī like big, big owner of factories, he's more diseased than the leper. Because he has no Kṛṣṇa bhakti. So we have to take care of the leper and the richest man also if he has no Kṛṣṇa bhakti.

Minister: That also. That also.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore we should not make any distinction that only the lepers will be taken care of.

Minister: (Hindi) a rich man or somebody comes, prays...

Prabhupāda: Everyone is more than leper.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like we have now asked our girls not to dress attractively, widow. They should dress not attractively. Because after all, what is this sex enjoyment? It is not very good thing. By outward attraction they attract. Nice sari, nice,—one becomes attracted. Therefore this is psychology, that if the woman does not dress very nicely, she will not be attractive. Unnecessarily attraction she will avoid. But a woman is naturally, her psychology is dress very nicely so that man may be attracted. Because they want shelter. This is the whole psychology. They, although they declare independence, they cannot live independently. That is not possible. Therefore they are by nature accustomed to dress attractively so that one may accept her and give her shelter. This is psychology. Otherwise, why the woman are naturally inclined to dress herself nice. Man does not. This is the psychology. A boy, sixteen years old boy, he does not... He is roughly dressed, he does not... But a sixteen year old girl will never remain roughly. She'll always try to decorate herself very nicely and utilize her youthful beauty for attracting. Why attracting? Because she wants shelter. Therefore it is the duty of the father and mother that she is young girl, she wants shelter, and out of passion, lusty desires, her selection may be wrong. So before she selects out of her own way, let me, it is my duty, I am guardian. Give her some good shelter. This is Hindu process.

Room Conversation with U.N. Doctor -- September 29, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Well now, Kṛṣṇa... You... Whatever you think, that is your business, but Kṛṣṇa is there everywhere.

Doctor: He is nirākāra and sākāra.

Prabhupāda: Nirākāra means He has no material ākāra. That is nirākāra. Ākāra means we have got... Just like I have conception of you. So this ākāra is your material ākāra. It is not your real ākāra. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). The real person is within the body, but we have no connection with the real body. We see this outward... Just like seeing his dress, his... That's all.

Doctor: How to find the...? How to get to the ātman, the inner body?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, that first of all, try to understand what is the person. So because we have no eyes to see, indirectly dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāram... (BG 2.13). Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ (BG 2.18). So many things. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. So many indirect way because we cannot directly perceive.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: (laughs) Say that, yes. We're brainwashing, washing their brain.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And all these rubbish things we are finishing. "Yes, it is brainwashing, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the core of the heart, all mistaken ideas." Speak in the court like that. "And see how we are being appreciated by scholarly section. Here is our book. Read if you have got time and see the opinion. It is really brainwashing, but for the good. Everything requires cleansing—for good. If bad impression, bad ideas, are washed, why do you protest? Let it be done. Give us freedom. It is brainwashing, but for the good, washing for good. Just like you wash your cloth. Do you think it is bad? Dirty cloth, if it is washed nicely with soap and water, who will protest against that? 'Oh, why you are cleansing your dirty clothes?' That is another foolishness. Everyone, every gentleman, every civilized man, washes his clothes with soap and water to become more refreshed. So we are giving this civilization... Actually it is brainwashing, but for the good. And see our example. The boys and girls whom you are charging, 'Brainwash,' just see after brainwashing, how gentleman they have become. They have become moralist. They have become God conscious. They are clean outwardly. Their fooding is so innocent and so nutritious. So why do you check it? Bring your plate and our plate. Now judge. Which is better? You taste. Halavā, puri, samosa, kachori, vegetable—one plate; and boiled meat with salt and black pepper... So taste now which is better."

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are manufacturing. They have to do artificially. My things are ready, but I have simply distributed. Why shall I not be happy? If you do something artificially, you have to manufacture. I am not doing that. My things are ready.

Mr. Koshi: How is your health now?

Prabhupāda: Not good. Health or not health, it is the outward machine. That doesn't matter. But if it is a good machine then it helps, that's all. Otherwise, machine good or bad, it doesn't matter to machine driver.

Mr. Koshi: What happens when the machine stops?

Prabhupāda: It changes. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13).

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu: "Never trust politicians and woman." That is the instruction of Cāṇakya.

Bhakti-caitanya: Yes, you said many times.

Prabhupāda: :They will speak something outwardly and do something inwardly. Especially nowadays politicians, they are diplomats. But Mr. Gupta is doing personally. That's all right.

Bhakti-caitanya: I got him to engage in the service of Kṛṣṇa very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is (indistinct).

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. There was television girl. "What is the description of hell?" "Now, here is, London."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew! That must not have been a very popular statement.

Prabhupāda: No, he stopped immediately. Simply outwardly decorated, and it is hell. I told him. Actually that is, everywhere. No... Only cloud and that mist.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that the sun never sets in the British Empire.

Prabhupāda: But is always sets in London.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It never rose.

Prabhupāda: Setting of sunshine is monopolized by London.