So nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. For Kṛṣṇa's... Therefore you'll find in India, there are many very big, big, costly temples, not personal house. You'll never find all over India. You go and see. They have spent lots of money for temple. That was the Oriental civilization. Even the Muhammadans, they would construct very costly mosque, but they would live in huts. That was the intention. One... When... Whenever one is a little bit rich, he'll find out how to spend it for Kṛṣṇa, not for his sense gratification. Just like this Madana-mohana temple was constructed by a big merchant. He approached Sanātana Gosvāmī: "Sir, what can I do for you? I want to serve you." So Sanātana Gosvāmī said, "My Madana-mohana... I am living underneath the tree, and my Madana-mohana is hanging. So if you can, you can construct a temple for Madana-mohana." Similarly, Mahārāja Mansingh approached Rūpa Gosvāmī. They never constructed big, big temple for their own living purpose, but Kṛṣṇa's purpose. That is the way. For Kṛṣṇa, we must have everything very gorgeous and first class, but not for me. That is akiñcana. Personally we should not possess anything, simply for Kṛṣṇa.
Oriental (Lectures)
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Festival Lectures
We are trying to enjoy in the matter, in the dull matter. That is spiritual. So brahman, brahman sukhānubhūtyā. People are trying to feel what is brahma-sukha, pleasure of brahmānubhāva. That is not material pleasure. So many yogis, they have given up their family life, their kingdom, and meditating to achieve that Brahman pleasure. Actually, the idea is Brahman pleasure. So many brahmacārīs, so many sannyāsīs, they are trying to achieve that Brahman pleasure, and in order to achieve that Brahman pleasure they are neglecting, they are kicking off all this material pleasure. Do you think that Brahman pleasure is ordinary, this material pleasure? To achieve a portion of Brahman pleasure, if they are kicking off all this material pleasure... Don't talk of ourselves. We are ordinary men. In the history we have got instances, that of Bharata Mahārāja. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. That Bharata Mahārāja was the emperor of the whole world. And as emperor he had his beautiful wife, young children. But at the age of twenty-four years, just young man, he gave up everything. All right. This is very old story, of course, but you know Lord Buddha. He was also a prince. He was also prince, not ordinary man, and he was kṣatriya, and he was always enjoying with beautiful women. That is the palace pleasure accustomed in every, in Oriental countries, that in the palace there are many beautiful girls, they're always dancing and giving pleasure to the kings and the prince. So Lord Buddha was also in such pleasure, but he gave up everything and began to meditate.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Unless you accept soul and consciousness, there cannot be question of culture.
Śyāmasundara: But when the scientists say "species," they mean different types of bodies.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We say 400,000 different forms of body, so human body, just like Negroes, they are also human beings, and you are also human beings. So this, scientists will say they are all one species, human being. But we say that Negro culture and the Āryan culture is different.
Śyāmasundara: They also say their bodies are different, Negroid bodies or Caucasian bodies, or Oriental bodies...
Prabhupāda: Then you can say species. Species and the different bodies.
Śyāmasundara: Species means different bodies. too
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: 1813. So maybe it's the..., maybe it was the anniversary that's wrong. Probably not the year, because he was most famous in '38. He wasn't..., before that he wasn't.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Anniversary maybe. Anniversary is going on.
Hayagrīva: It might have been the 50th anniversary also. He writes, "By that time I had read a great deal about Indian philosophy and religious history and was deeply convinced of the value of Oriental wisdom." On this visit Jung had an opportunity to talk with S. Subrahmania Ayer, the guru of the Mahārāja of Mysore, who hosted Jung. Jung says that he studiously avoided the so-called holy men. He says, "I did so because I had to make do with my own truth, not to accept from others what I could not attain on my own. I would have felt it as a theft had I attempted to learn from the holy men and to accept their truth for myself. Neither in Europe can I make any borrowings from the East, but I must shape my life out of myself, out of what my inner being tells me or what nature brings to me."
Prabhupāda: He did not like to accept any guru.
Hayagrīva: Self-reliance.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hayagrīva: This seems to be a self-reliance.
Prabhupāda: Then how he accepts Indian pleasure(?)?
Hayagrīva: Well on the one hand at least he didn't accept...
Prabhupāda: He must...
Hayagrīva: On the one hand he says he wanted a guru.
Prabhupāda: Huh.
Hayagrīva: Previously.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: But here, after going to Calcutta, perhaps it was the, the so-called gurus that he met that discouraged...
Prabhupāda: The so-called gurus are there, many. That is no doubt. So he might have seen some bogus guru, he did not like. But the principle of accepting guru cannot be avoided. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: But God has no past, present, future. So where is history? It is all nonsense. He does not know what is the meaning of God.
Hayagrīva: Hegel placed a great deal of emphasis on human freedom.
Prabhupāda: There is no freedom. That is another nonsense.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) He is subjected to birth, death, old age. Where is his freedom? That is another nonsense.
Hayagrīva: He accuses the Orientals, mainly the Indians... He says, "The Orientals do not know that the spirit is free in itself or that man is free in himself. Because they do not know it, they are not free."
Prabhupāda: But is he free? Why he died? The Orientals he is accusing. Why he died? This is their nonsense speculation.
Hayagrīva: He says, "They only know that the one"—that is, the one Brahman—"is free; therefore such freedom is only arbitrary."
Prabhupāda: Then why he says that the human being should be free?
Hayagrīva: He says this one, supreme one, is therefore a despot, not a free man, not a man. Only the Germanic nations have in and through Christianity achieved the consciousness that man as man is free and that freedom of the spirit constitutes his very nature. This consciousness arose first in religion and the innermost region of spirit.
Prabhupāda: Christian religion is that the man either goes to heaven or goes to hell. So he has got the freedom either go to hell or go to heaven. This freedom he has got. But who gives him hell or heaven? He has got the freedom to make choice, but when he is going to hell, then where is his freedom? That where is the distinction between hell and heaven? These are... If he is Christian he should answer that the man is given chance, once, either to go to hell or go to heaven.
Prabhupāda: Now, if according to your qualification you can make a selection, "I, I like this occupation." But the occupation is already there. Just like a shopkeeper, he has got varieties of goods. The customer goes, he can say, "I like this." "All right, you can take it. This is the price." Similarly, the occupational duties are already there. The (indistinct) are already there. That is created by God. Now you can select one of them according to the price you can pay. That is the...
Hayagrīva: Not according..., not according to birth?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hayagrīva: Not according to birth?
Prabhupāda: No.
Hayagrīva: He thinks... He says in many Oriental states this assignment... He says, Hegel, in tle Platonic state, in Plato's Republic, the government assigns each individual his occupation. In Oriental states, in..., for instance in India, he says this assignment results from birth. The subjective choice, which ought to be respected, requires free choice by individuals, and he considers this the basic right.
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is just like Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa said, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). This is going on all over the world. The occupation is that just like engineering occupation. So who can become engineer? Guṇa-karma, one who has acquired the qualification of engineering profession and is actually acting as engineer. That is wanted. Guṇa-karma. Kṛṣṇa never says, "Birth" But later on, because an engineer trains his boy as engineer, so naturally he becomes also engineer. Formerly, as we understand from the history of Ajāmila... He was a son of a brāhmaṇa, and he was being trained up as a brāhmaṇa. That was the system. Not that because he has born in the brāhmaṇa family he becomes brāhmaṇa.
Prabhupāda: He is Hegel now, what? What is his...?
Devotee: Hegel.
Hayagrīva: Hegel.
Prabhupāda: Ah. So if he accepts God and he inducts a man, the man should take knowledge from God about God. The his knowledge of God is perfect. He should not speculate. And if he has no such source of taking knowledge from God, then his conception of God is also false. If he has got actually the conception of God, then he should take knowledge from God what He is. That is perfect knowledge. He was talking of Oriental knowledge. This is Oriental knowledge: they know who is God and they take knowledge from God about God. But here, Occidental, they speculate about God. What they will know about God? Whatever they speculate, that is imperfect, because he is imperfect.
Hayagrīva: He equates idea, reason, God, and the Absolute very much like the Greeks.
Prabhupāda: Everything is there, but if you take knowledge from God, then that is perfect, and if you make your own ideas—you do not take the ideas of God—that is imperfect.
| Page Title: | Oriental (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=7, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 7 |