Go to Vanipedia | Go to Vanisource | Go to Vanimedia


Vaniquotes - the compiled essence of Vedic knowledge


Organization (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: Well let's do as much as possible because you're leaving Sunday.

Prabhupāda: All right. All right. Do it.

Hayagrīva: This is second act now.

Prabhupāda: Second act. Then Lord Caitanya's saṅkīrtana organization in the house of Śrīnivāsa. Śrīnivāsācārya. The saṅkīrtana movement was... They were all chanting together Hare Kṛṣṇa, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked the devotees that "Hello, My dear friends. What do you want to eat?" So some of them said... That was out of season, and still some of them asked that "We shall be very glad if You give us some mangoes." (laughs) So Lord Caitanya said that "All right. You just bring one seed of mango." So in Bengal there is, seed of mango is available always because the people in the village, they eat mango and throw it in the ground, they say they come out as tree, creeper. So it is not very difficult. So he brought some creeper like that, and he sowed it, and at once it became a tree, and there was sufficient quantity of mango fruits. So all the devotees were distributed. And that mango tree remained there and they were taking mango every day. And in that scene, just try to... The next scene is brāhmaṇas' dissatisfaction. Now some of the brāhmaṇas...

Hayagrīva: How old is Caitanya now?

Prabhupāda: He was about...

Hayagrīva: Sixteen?

Prabhupāda: Fifteen, sixteen, like that. Yes. Fifteen, sixteen. Yes, you ask me questions, any about that.

Hayagrīva: That's His saṅkīrtana organization, that first scene.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: He was about...

Hayagrīva: Sixteen?

Prabhupāda: Fifteen, sixteen, like that. Yes. Fifteen, sixteen. Yes, you ask me questions, any about that.

Hayagrīva: That's His saṅkīrtana organization, that first scene.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: And from this first comes...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the beginning of...

Hayagrīva: A scene of Nivas...

Prabhupāda: At Śrīnivāsa's house.

Hayagrīva: Are the people mainly young people like Himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all young.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Or through Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We're not solving anything then by doing that. We're sort of, in our own mind, we're running away.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that running away is the best sol... Suppose you are put in a prison house. The solution is to go out of it. If you want to make adjustment of the prison house, that is impossible. You may be a first-class prisoner or second-class prisoner, third-class prisoner, but you will remain a prisoner. But if you want freedom, then you must go out of the prison walls.

Interviewer: But I notice you have many, you seem to have a lot of young men who are part of your organization. These young men must face the material problems of today like the draft and Vietnam and everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interviewer: Isn't it difficult to belong to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and exist in this world we must exist in?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the thing is that persons who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness anywhere, even they are put into a very uncomfortable position, they are not suffering in the same way as ordinary man.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: (break) I wanted to find out more about attending the services, that is, are there any books written about Kṛṣṇa consciousness here available in Seattle or any other organizations besides the temple?

Prabhupāda: We have many books already published. One, first, is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is published by Macmillan and Company. You can have any number of these books from our temple. And the next book is Teachings of Lord Caitanya. That is also available from our temple. And the next book, in three parts, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So if somebody... These are the, I mean to say, covering of the books. So if somebody carefully reads these books, Kṛṣṇa consciousness science will be understood very easily by him. Besides these books, we have got our monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. So if the students... It is not very costly. The monthly magazine is only 35 cents per copy and the subscription four dollars yearly. And this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, it is only $2.95. Of course, this Teachings of Lord Caitanya, it is hardbound, it is $5.95. So they will be greatly profited.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). The Lord Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up everything. Just surrender unto Me, and I take charge of you." So we have surrendered unto Him, yes, completely. So what we hear, we do that.

Interviewer: Among your followers is the part of their lives which is not involved with the rules of your organization or with the formal meetings. Are there...? Do they simply proceed with their normal lives and work at jobs?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, work.

Interviewer: I mean, are there any prohibitions as to what type of work? For example, would a follower of yours work in a war industry?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If there is no other work, he can work in war industry, because he has to live. After all, he must earn something. Without earning, how can he live? So if there is no better job, he can accept any job. What can be done?

Interviewer: You take no...

Prabhupāda: But if we can get a better job... Suppose the war industry or butcher industry... That is also an industry. So if somebody offers some job in the butchery, naturally we are not inclined to accept such job, but...

Interviewer: I believe in the Buddhist philosophy that there are some professions like slaughtering animals and so on which are...

Prabhupāda: So far Buddhist philosophy is concerned...

Room Conversation -- April 27, 1969, Boston:

Prabhupāda: Forgot, you forgot. That is your nature. You forget so many things. You cannot remember what you were doing exactly at this time yesterday. Can you remember immediately? Forgetfulness is our nature. We are very minute; therefore our..., we are subjected to the quality of forgetfulness. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was asking Kṛṣṇa that "How I can believe that you told this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā to Vivasvān?" He said that "In... I, first of all, I told to Vivasvān." So in reply to that question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you and I had many, many births before, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between the Supreme Lord and ourself. He does not forget. He remembers everything, past, present, future, all, but we forget. That is the difference between God and living entity. We are subjected to forgetfulness. So we forget; again, if it is reminded, we remind. That is our nature. So at the present moment we are forgetful of our eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. And then, by good association, by constant chanting, hearing, remembering, we again revoke our old consciousness. That is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So forgetfulness is not wonderful. It is natural. We forget. But if we keep constant touch, we may not forget. Therefore this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, devotees, and constant repetition of the chanting, scripture, that will keep us intact without forgetting. Satataṁ kirtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We have to continue this service constantly. Then we shall not forget. Forgetfulness is not wonderful. That is our nature. That is our nature. And that is the difference between ourself and God. God does not forget. We forget. We are claiming, some of us, foolishly claiming, that "I am God, but I forget." God does not forget. Therefore I am not God. Is that clear? That is the difference between living jīva and Śiva, God. He does not forget. In the Bhagavad-gītā He says, vedāhaṁ samatītāni: (BG 7.26) "I know everything of this present, past, future, everything." But we do not know. We have forgotten. In our daily life, in our childhood, so many things we did. We don't remember. But our parents may remember that as a child, that we did this. So forgetfulness is our nature. But if we keep constant touch with Kṛṣṇa, then He will give us remembrance. So sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo (BG 15.15). Kṛṣṇa says in the Fifteenth Chapter. Now you read Bhagavad-gītā very carefully. In our examination next January... Yes. From Bhagavad-gītā for title of bhakti-śāstrī. Now we have to make our organization regularly a spiritual institution so that we may be recognized, and our students may be freed from this draft board requisition. That I am... Next step is going on. (Break) Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Puruṣottama? Why don't you get that tape? Yes.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: No, it is Easy Journey to Other Planets. No? No, what is this? Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the Topmost Yoga System.

Śyāmasundara: See, the Swamiji is only going to be here two more days, so if there's any possibility, people can take advantage to have him speak in public or in groups. Do you think it's possible?

Prof. Kotovsky: It's... It's... I can't help because I am leaving tomorrow very early for the South, and I shall be here only on the 1st of July. Yes. So from this point it will be difficult, yes. Probably... My advice would be through an ambassador you can come in contact with this, our religious organization. That would be very interesting to have some lecture in group, lecture in group, and some discussion of all this. That would be... That would be very possible, a little. So he can come back if... I would say tomorrow, but I can't manage it myself, but..., as I am leaving at six, leaving, plane is leaving at 8:15 tomorrow morning.

Prabhupāda: You mean to say that some ambassador's men should see you.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, it seems to me that your ambassador's men can come in contact with special, our religious organizations and can organize for you both meetings and conferences. There's no difficulty for some men. That would be interesting.

Prabhupāda: So you can say. We shall arrange.

Prof. Kotovsky: Hm hm. That you can. That you can... (end)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Women's section is different.

Guest: Different.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: It's very important...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: ...because all religious organizations have floundered on scandal, and you will have to be very careful about that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: This is what an old man has a right to tell you.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, from the very beginning, because in Western country the boys and girls, they intermingle very freely.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes, and that is a...

Guest: So you are left with, that is another crude problem...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Guest: ...that you have to take great care about. The traditional life of separate living is safer for organization. So all right to have men and are married and then in family they can mix. There is no difficulty. But when you start the separate organization, against which people are ready to manufacture stories, then you will have to be much more careful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: So that is one comment I make as an old man.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You are very valuable. Yes.

Guest: That is a wise thing from an old man. That's one thing. Then these are minor matters. On the philosophy of action which you have taken...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: The defects are here that way which you will confirm, I have no doubt. But the question which I put to Girirāja was whether it would not have been better if you work from inside rather than make yourself a separate cult and organization. Separate organization, once you form, becomes like a person who is born. It gets his attachment, his ego, his everything. So the separate organization, like Mr. Banu, becomes an ego. He is fond of his own attachments, of his own interest, and so the organization must be looked after. The organization should succeed. The organization should succeed better than other organizations. There is (indistinct) among organizations. So all the egotistic weaknesses apply to organizations also. Therefore I was wondering whether it would not, if you had convinced that your mission was to spread the Gītā Ācārya's teachings as to how to act with detachment and with faith in the grace of God, where you go wrong, could not be having better done without making yourself separate.

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is, when there is detachment, there must be another attachment.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1972, Madras:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa.

Guest: Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, es I will call Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Guest: Attachment should be to Govinda, not to an organization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Govinda is absolute. Govinda and Govinda's organization the same. Govinda is absolute.

Guest: I don't want to discuss it, I told you. I'm not competent to discuss. I'm just telling you what I think.

Prabhupāda: No. I'm also answering this point. Just like Kṛṣṇa, His name, His form, His pastimes, His entourage, they are all the same. Otherwise, what is the benefit of chanting Kṛṣṇa's name? Suppose I am thirsty just now. If I simply chant the name of water, "water," I'll not be satisfied. Water is required, actual substance. But when you chant "Kṛṣṇa," if Kṛṣṇa name is different from Kṛṣṇa, then you... (end)

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Guest (1): What about England? London. How is your movement doing?

Prabhupāda: Yes, London is very... There is also. We have got very nice temple near British Museum, 7 Bury Place. And all Europeans, they come to see our temple from Germany, from France. Because we have been advertised in cooperation with the Beatles. The Beatles, Beatles, the George Harrison. You do not know his name? He is very famous man. Yes. So we have produced some records in cooperation with George Harrison's organization. So because the records are produced through George Harrison, we have got a very, very big sale. You see? And that has advertised Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Temple, London. So people come to see what is this Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple, out of... Because London, every day, thousands of visitors come in London. They have got visitors buses also, charge nominal. So London is still important. From all parts of the world people come. So anyone who comes, they come to see our temple.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: After I asked Mr. Karandhara if he would like your organization to publish more and more books, he said yes, and in order to improve our service...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dai Nippon representative: In order to makes ourselves better, you know...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is success.

Dai Nippon representative: And Mr. Karandhara give us suggestion that Dai Nippon would open a liaison office in Los Angeles in order to save time and in order to make a good communication.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dai Nippon representative: And our president would like to hear of your opinion or comment on that suggestion.

Prabhupāda: So how do you think, that suggestion. What is your idea?

Dai Nippon representative: (Japanese) He would like to see our liaison office in Los Angeles... (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So Karandhara, you speak.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: But still it has to be expanded, has to be more explicitly ex..., advertised. So our point is this, that we are trying to spread this knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that we are spreading the knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā. So this is a world-wide organization and you know something about us, about this movement. So this part of the world, this is Southeast Asia?

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Southeast Asia. Why not combine it, join together, and scientifically preach this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. People will be very glad to accept it.

Scholar: What is the place of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam here, in this movement?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Scholar: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is... The Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like before learning any literature, one has to read the first book, ABCD. The Bhagavad-gītā is the ABCD. It is just beginning of understanding of what is God. ABC. When one has passed the entrance examination, then he gets the opportunity of studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. In the Bhagavad-gītā the last instruction is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So in this way my connection became developed with Gauḍīya Maṭha. Then, gradually the process began, hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ. (chuckles) I wanted to become very big businessman and there was good opportunity. I was very nicely associated with the chemical industry of India. Dr. Bose's laboratory, Bengal Chemical, V.K. Farr (?), and all of them, they liked my business organization. Then I started big laboratory in Lucknow. So that was golden days, but gradually everything becomes (indistinct). And at last, my Allahabad business was lost. It was not lost on account of some, my debts, I had to hand it over to Dr. Kartik Chandra Bose because I was his agent. So I had some debts, so I tell the, "All right, you take this business." In this way, that Prayāg Pharmacy was lost. So I was not going to, I was sitting at home, but this Jājābara Mahārāja, at that time Sarvesva (?) brahmacārī and Atulananda brahmacārī, they used to come to take their subscription, and they were requesting that "Why don't you come to our maṭha? Why don't you come to our maṭha? You are now free." So, I used to visit their temple.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) ...in my house, some may say, a few years, so naturally we had very intimate talks and he was my good adviser. I took his advice, his instruction very seriously, because from the very beginning I know he's a pure Vaiṣṇava and devotee, and I wanted to associate with him, and try to help him also in so many ways. He also tried to help me, so our relationship is very intimate. After the breakdown of the Gauḍīya Maṭha, I wanted to organize another organization, making Śrīdhara Mahārāja head. And I wanted to mix... At that time Gosvāmī Mahārāja, one of my friend's house at Sealdah... Śrīdhara Mahārāja, you may remember those things. I wanted to organize in so many ways, but somehow or other...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I had one house in Station Road belonging to Naren Mullik. (indistinct) very small (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, he wanted to rent us only for ninety rupees. I told him, "You just give me the concession. He, at that time he was getting 125, but because I am his friend, "All right, I'll give you, ninety rupees." So that could not happen somehow or other. So I was trying from the very beginning after the disappearance of Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is done. Just like sometimes I think that I came here alone without any expectation of success, and this movement has become so nice. Actually, by one man's effort it was not possible. But it has become so. This is acintya-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's, inconceivable. Even a modern businessman, he cannot organize such a worldwide organization in such short a time. We have talked with many businessmen in India. Some said, "We have got thirty branches," somebody says, "We have got forty," another twenty branches. Our students say "My Guru Mahārāja has 102 branches." So they say, "No, we cannot compare with your Guru Mahārāja." So this is acintya-śakti. You can see so many things, the acintya-śakti is working. So unless we accept acintya-śakti of God, it is not possible to understand what is God. Inconceivable potency. And that is actually a fact. We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Demonstration of world religion.

Guest (2): World religion.

Prabhupāda: This is world religion.

Guest (2): But what inside... (showing pamphlet or something) They say religion and moral education books, and all this... So actually, they should take our permission also. So this will sell our books. Our organization, not theirs, controlling the people.

Prabhupāda: No, they are taking.

Guest (2): Religious people are recognizing that this is very important. They say "the world religion," and this is the tool. They say, well, the tool. "Here is the new tool for religion education in the secondary schools." So they are recognizing this fact.

Prabhupāda: Without canvassing, people join.

Room Conversation With Three College Students -- July 11, 1973, London:

Student (1): Yeah, but you're not giving us any sort of answer. You're just sort of saying, "Believe in us, assume that you believe in us." So why don't you give us an answer?

Prabhupāda: No, believe... You have to believe. You have to believe. Otherwise you cannot make progress. You have to believe.

Student (1): But say you're in a position of not particularly believing in anybody. I mean there's loads of organizations going around, "Believe in us..."

Prabhupāda: No, if you don't believe, that is a different thing

Revatīnandana: No, what he's saying is this. Now he's saying also, this Guru Maharajaji, he says, "You believe in me, and I'll show you everything." Now he's saying that... What he's accusing is...

Prabhupāda: But who cares for the Guru Mahārāja?

Revatīnandana: He cares.

Prabhupāda: Here is Nārada, Devala, Vyāsa, authority.

Student (3): No, we're not saying we do, but some people do, anyway.

Student (1): Yeah, they'll argue just as convincingly as you.

Prabhupāda: But everyone can say, "I am God." Then how you'll understand? If Guru Mahārāja says, I can say also. He can say. Then go on studying who is God. The same question: Everyone says, "I am your father," "I am your father," "I am your father," but whom you have to believe? You have to believe only mother.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Like poverty, and this lack of balance between rich and poor. How these problems can be solved?

Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. "You want food, shelter and cloth? Produce here, and remain here. Don't be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and engage in industries." But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted, overnight, to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The Congress side, the followers of Gandhi should have followed Gandhi's principles—from political point of view. Village organization. But they won't do that.

Devotee: (to guests:) Some kṣīra?

Reporter: Oh!

Prabhupāda: That's all? Don't get more?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: They actually, by destroying the Manchester millionaires, Gandhi gave opportunity to the Ahmadabad millionaires. And the consumers, instead of purchasing Manchester cloth at one rupee per pair, now they're purchasing at thirty rupees per pair.

Reporter: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: This is advantage. I know. My father had cloth business. The Manchester cloth, very nice cloth—one rupee six annas per pair, retail sale.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy?

Reporter: His philosophy is... He is a bhak..., a devotee, I think. He is very much a devotee. But he is also preaching what Gandhi was preaching, for village organization and simple living and producing food and clothes, in the village, and not going to the city. This is his principle, on the economy scale. And on the spiritual end, religious, he's a brahma-vidyā. He's seeking brahma-vidyā. And he has in Padnab(?) Brahma-vidya Mandir.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Reporter: So he is... He is a follower of Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Mukti, bhukti.

Reporter: Ah?

Prabhupāda: Mukti.

Reporter: Mukti, yes.

Prabhupāda: Piśācī.

Reporter: Hm? (everyone laughs)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Bhukti-mukti-piśācī.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: In order to achieve our goals, do we intend doing like the Christians tried to do, making everyone convert to their side. Is that what we want to do, make everyone convert to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? If Kṛṣṇa consciousness is good, why everyone should not take to it?

Yogeśvara: Ah. This is an important question. He says seeing the world as it is today, what is the most preferable social organization from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yogeśvara: How should society be organized in order to achieve these goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You organize that there should be division of different classes of men. The first class men, the second class men, the third class men, fourth class men. The first-class men means the most intelligent class of men. Second-class men means those who are dealing in politics. Third-class men means those who are dealing in economics, industry, trade. And fourth-class men means they have no intelligence to take up all these things, but they work only. But all of them should cooperate. For the general benefit of the whole human society. We have got engagement for the first-class men, second-class men, third-class men, fourth-class men. Just like we have got in our body the brain, the arms, the belly, and the legs. But all of them are cooperating for keeping the body fit. Similarly, the first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class men should cooperate for achieving the end, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I work at night, writing books. My work is going on. At night, I write. (break) In the UNESCO, to understand God or spiritual life, they do not think it a necessary?

Dr. Inger: Well, that's a very, very important question. I think that the real trouble is that all of them are bureaucrats, sitting in offices, creating more jobs for other officers. I was one of the earliest members. I came when Dr. Radhakrishnan was the, was our president. And... At the very early stage. In those days, there was that feeling, that some importance should be given, but because it became a governmental organization, because every religion thinks that they should have a part to play in it, what they did was, they brought out, in ten volumes, a scientific and cultural history of mankind. But it has, it's only incidentally philosophy, only incidentally religion. The only religious books that have come out are those that have been translated. Old books like the second book to the East, for instance. Max Muller's books. And they have been reprinted. And occasionally a few translations have been done from Tulasidāsa or some other philosophers, rewritten, like Śaṅkara later on. But, but all of those have been done because somebody else has commissioned them. But otherwise, there isn't... Except they have had some meetings in various placed. But at none of these meetings do they really discuss the problem that of the, well occasional people, occasional philosophers, they never really discuss that. I think because the word, religion, I think probably is the stumbling block...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from religion. Religion may be sentiment or some emotion. That is another thing.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But we can ask what is this cosmic manifestation, what is the purpose of this, who created, how it is created. Are they not scientific?

Dr. Inger: Yes. Now this is another problem. Everything of a philosophical kind, they call it science, human sciences, natural sciences, moral sciences. They think that is a fault(?) to satisfy scientific spirit. I think from that point of view, they allow big conferences to be held where a particular theme is taken, different people come. So the organization encourages, stimulates activities proposed, submitted and finally passed in resolutions by different commissions and different countries. And then it's held. And at that particular time, some people come and speak. So they have had... But they haven't... Mostly these meetings have been held and... Very few have been held here, except when they celebrated the tintinary(?) of Aurobindo, last year. Or when they celebrated the centenary of, another centenary of Ramakrishna. Like that. But not always.

Prabhupāda: Not Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Inger: They haven't. Not so far. Because from their point of view they have to prove the dates, historical dates, how many centuries, and so forth.

Prabhupāda: It is there in the śāstras.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: I know. But so... If one can put it that way, then somebody has to submit that we are going to celebrate the three thousand anniversary, or four thousand anniversary, and... But no such step has been taken. But such an idea can be proposed.

Prabhupāda: No, suppose the United Nations is the organization of the whole human society, so if I ask the United Nations, as an organization that: "What is the purpose of this cosmic manifestation?" That is a fact. There is a cosmic manifestation. The scientists, they are also trying to understand. So there are so many scientists, philosophers, what is their answer? Suppose I am inquisitive to know something. So where shall I inquire?

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: Now if you were to inquire from... Because the only organization which deals with culture, therefore philosophy, therefore religion, therefore art, therefore music, is UNESCO Paris. Not New York. And if you did put such a question, you would get some kind of reply from one of the directors who says: "We, we... Such a proposal has not been made. But if such a proposal is made, let us say, presented, by any member state, out of the hundred and twenty-six or twenty-seven member states, and it is submitted to the general conference where it meets in session, two years in October, and is passed through, we will be able..." Now usually what happens is one country presents it and if the, and what it means in terms of expense, how much, how many people are going to be invited, and what is going to be the plan. And if that is done, they would say: "Yes, I think such a study has to be made." And it's possible to make it.

Prabhupāda: A sectarian question.

Dr. Inger: No, no, no. It won't be.

Prabhupāda: It is... Why it should be presented to Pārtha-sārathi. Even American representative or English representative or French representative, any representative can do...

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Dr. Inger: Because being a governmental organization, the only kind of reply one would get from such a question would be a very polite and courteous one, but it wouldn't have... No action would be taken. Action can only be taken, if it is governmentally presented. That is the only problem. There are many ideas which come forward, boundless ones, but the people need to present them officially. And... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...your position there?

Dr. Inger: Well, now I am a consultant. I used to be a regular member of the staff for a long time. Now I do certain projects for them, and I'm a visiting professor, and I'm a writer, visiting professor at different universities. So I'm connected with, with UNESCO in a way that I can not be now a permanent member of the staff which I was... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...purpose is not to propose only. Because I wish that there are so many scient..., scientific men, philosophers and thoughtful men... Suppose even if I ask you, what is your answer, that what is the purpose...? The cosmic manifestation is there, the universe is there, and there are innumerable planets within this universe, and they are very organizely kept. Everything is nicely going on. The sun is rising in due time. The moon is rising in due time. The seasons, seasons are changing. There is nice organization. So is it not a bona fide inquiry to, "What is the purpose of this organization?"

Dr. Inger: Well, the purpose is to understand oneself in relation to the cosmos.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: That means his knowledge is not perfect.

Guru-gaurāṅga: His knowledge is not perfect, and like us, he is simply trying for perfect knowledge.

Prabhupāda: So unless you have got your goal perfectly known, how you can make progress? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...their organization is the guru, and their whole organization knows the ultimate goal which they can attain.

Prabhupāda: And he is part of that organization. He does not know.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He says that evolution of man which is the goal of this order is something that is mystical. It is not scientific, that it is so easily...

Prabhupāda: That means it is pale. It is not distinct.

Yogeśvara: He says he is surprised that we raise such objections. He thought that we were also searching for something mystical. He says he's heard our chanting.

Prabhupāda: Who, who? Who?

Yogeśvara: He said he thought we were also searching.

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa... We have got definite goal, Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He has got His form, He has got His place, He has got His name, He has got His pastimes, and we want to enter in that kingdom.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: So why in the beginning stop? Why in the beginning they are requested to give it up? (break)

Yogeśvara: Rosicrucian order doesn't force anything, doesn't make you do anything. (break) ...people that join this organization, only seven succeed.

Prabhupāda: Then it cannot be preached among the mass of people.

Guru-gaurāṅga: Some people, when they just can't make it anymore, they just (indistinct) flip out. (?)

Yogeśvara: He says all movements experience the same thing.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: That out of one hundred people...

Prabhupāda: One hundred people..., but the ideal must be there. One may follow or not follow.

Yogeśvara: Their order doesn't reject anyone.

Prabhupāda: I think... Whether their order approves animal killing?

Yogeśvara: There are no restrictions. The order doesn't require.

Prabhupāda: Then let us stop here. No more questions. Waste time.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Of course, from Sweden, I mean, it depends upon the nationality. People can go for three months without any visa.

Prabhupāda: No, that is different thing. But missionary visa. From missionary... When there's missionary, there is no question of any particular country, because we have got men from different countries. Our men, ISKCON representatives, they should be given missionary visa when they want to go. That is my... That much help I want.

Ambassador: Who is the representative in India? Of this...? In Delhi, of your organization? In Delhi?

Prabhupāda: In Delhi?

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. Tejas.

Paramahaṁsa: Tejas dāsa.

Ambassador: He should meet someone fairly senior in the home ministry.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambassador: I can write to him, and he can also meet. I think...

Prabhupāda: So you can, you can give some introductory...

Ambassador: Yes, I will give the names, too. You come to the Embassy.

Prabhupāda: No, visa, of course, it is to be given from here. So why you should refer to Delhi? You can use your discrimination.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: "In association with pure devotees." So if you are karmīs, then where is the..., What is the value of this association? Sat-saṅga. Sat-saṅga means assembly, discussion. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. If you are not interested in association, discussion, then you are finished. So... karmīs, they are fools and rascals. When you have got this center, it is not that you should be engaged from morning till you go to bed for sense gratification. That is not life. That is karmī's life. You have no time for sat-saṅga, for association. You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?

Brahmānanda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Why not here? Why go to Babar Road, spend twenty rupees?

Guru dāsa: According to them, that sometimes they have to go in the center of town.

Prabhupāda: Nobody has intelligence. It will not, it will not stay. It will be spoiled. Joint mess organization. In Los Angeles, they're also doing business. They're going to sell books. But regulative principle is observed. Huge expenditure they have got. No center is so improved as Los Angeles. We have purchased six houses. And I wanted immediately two lakhs, immediately sent. You cannot pay. You simply want to take. In India, nobody can pay. If I want two lakhs, nobody can pay. But all this money have been taken from U.S.A. I asked Bali Mardana, I asked Karandhara. They paid me for this Bombay affair, sixteen, eighteen lakhs. (break) ...and breathing also does not stop. It goes very slow. Therefore he cannot be immortal. And Bhagavad-gītā proposes, that is wonderful thing, if you can stop death. And whole spiritual life means how to stop death. That is Bhāgavata's instruction, "Don't accept guru, don't accept father, don't accept, or don't be father, don't be mother, don't be, if you cannot stop death." Either you don't accept, or don't become. Just like they want guru. So don't accept a guru who cannot stop your death. And from guru's side, it is advised, "Don't become guru if you cannot stop the death of your disciple." This is Bhāgavatam's statement. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to stop death, live eternally with Kṛṣṇa, go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our movement.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Devotees: (discuss among themselves)

Prabhupāda: Then if you say like that, then United Nations is not better than us, you have to accept. If we cannot give peace, and they are not giving peace, then why they are so big organization?

Karandhara: They will say because it is a better organization.

Prabhupāda: They cannot answer. They simply give, they can give simply words, that's all. "United," they're speaking of unity, only flags are increasing. Daily another flag, another flag, another flag, and the flags will never unite. And still they are advertising "United Nations."

Yaśomatīnandana: When the war starts, United States...

Prabhupāda: Yes, in America, they started, United Nations, but they are going to fight with the Vietnam. United Nations.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Sudāmā: Yeah, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are world organization. There is spiritual side, and there is material side also. That is not material side. That is also spiritual side, means systematic management. Otherwise how it will be done? Just like Gaurasundara sold the house, and there is no trace of the money. What is this? He did not ask him, anyone. He sold the house, and where is the money, there is no trace. (break) Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that badge? Tennis?

Devotee: It's not a badge. It's the only sweater I...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yesterday I received one letter from Rūpānuga Mahārāja. He's preaching very nice. Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Rūpānuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.

Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Umāpati: Well, they can't do it as...

Karandhara: Not the churches.

Prabhupāda: No, not the churches. Our gṛhasthas will take part. The sannyāsīs will give advice. Directly the gṛhasthas will fight. Gṛhastha, not gṛhastha. There should be an administrative class. That is... Now it is prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. There should be four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Now, it is spoken by God. Therefore it should be rejected? Does it mean? God is for everything. What is this nonsense? And Kṛṣṇa acted as kṣatriya. Therefore He should not be God? Is that very good argument? God is all-inclusive. And religion means God's word, carrying out God's word. That is religion. So how you can make separate?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Must be. That is the point. If you have abolished monarchy, then why you are electing another rascal to become a monarch? What is the answer? Why do you need it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they need law and order.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there must be. In our organization... Just like in each temple we elect a president. Then we get GBC. Then above all, I am. So that is needed. It is not conventional. It is needed. Therefore above everything, there must be God. So if these people, they say, "There is no need of God, there is no use for Him," that means they are all rascals.

Karandhara: They themselves want to be that God.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. You become God. But our point is there is need of God.

Karandhara: Well, on that basis, on that logic they would say, "Yes, there is need, but we can fill that need."

Prabhupāda: You fill, that's all right, but if you cannot... That is the question. (laughter) Our definition of God is that He maintains everyone. Can you maintain everyone?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Hm, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they demand it. In every center it is going on very nicely. Then we have many customer requested the enlarged edition. So, so everything is ready. Now this controversy, whether MacMillan will publish or we shall publish.

Dr. Kapoor: There is no doubt that you will be saving a lot of trouble (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: And they have got good organization.

Dr. Kapoor: Good organization they have got.

Prabhupāda: All over the world.

Dr. Kapoor: They'll sell more. They'll sell more.

Prabhupāda: Actually because it was published by MacMillan Company, it has become widely circulated, people are demanding.

Dr. Kapoor: I think you should let them publish.

Prabhupāda: That I am trying, but it has not been decided, but anyway it will be published very soon.

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is your second item.

Guest: And our... I'll finish that. Now, third is in the constitution rights. Now, under the constitution of India ever person, body or organization has been given the liberty and the equal right to propagate any religion. Under the constitution, I have got a liberty to express my path for any religion. Of course, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to me, is not a religion because it is universal. It is not for any sector.

Prabhupāda: (about fan) It is not moving like that, revolving?

Satsvarūpa: No, the other one is not working.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest: I don't require anything, Guru Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. But make it full force. This is full? (Sound of loud fan coming on.)

Yaśomatīnandana: This revolves, but I don't know how.

Prabhupāda: I am conducting all these temples with the help of these foreigners. There, there is no Indian.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Means Jamadagni's son. Paraśurāma.

Dr. Patel: Jamadagni, the Paraśurāma's son. Jamadagna is Paraśurāma, the father.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...being done in America because it is not to be done here. Here religion has become fanaticism and political degradation. It is not possible. Now see in our political paper how they are seriously doing and people taking seriously. Whatever program I give them, they are systematically doing. Here there is no assistance. (break) ...cry, "Oh, we are in, put in this condition, put in this..." Complain. But what is the remedy, we do not take. That is India's position. Mr. Kanunda(?), he's the son of late governor of Gujarat(?). He came to offer me a land in Bhuvaneśvara. So he said... He's the manager of the coal organization.

Dr. Patel: Coal Corporation of India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's the general manager. He told me that "Workers, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase price." Now, when the, it was private concern, they were managing. They were working very nicely. Now, since it has become government concern, they are not working.

Dr. Patel: Same thing in...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, local language is required.

Indian man (1): Suppose if we learn English, then we can preach in our local language.

Prabhupāda: Yes, local language is required. No, Hindi also, you should learn, but... We can have publication in Hindi also. But when we speak of international organization, English must be there.

Pañcadraviḍa: (break) ...them into all the schools.

Prabhupāda: Yes. School, college, library, enlightened gentlemen, businessmen, they have all accepted.

Pañcadraviḍa: This is how it would work. This is Akṣayānanda's work. He has been doing this for some months here now. He goes every day to all the different colleges and schools, and he speaks, and he shows them your books for their college libraries. He's been having a lot of programs like this. They always take the Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa Books and Nectar of Devotion, like this.

Prabhupāda: Best thing is that "Why your president, he did not write a single Hindi book? He has got so many. He is a famous philosopher. Indian religion, Indian philosophy, and Bhagavad-gītā. Then... He has written so many books but not a single in Hindi."

Morning Walk at Villa Borghese -- May 25, 1974, Rome:

Bhagavān: The easiest way to manage, then, is to have everything more or less in small villages.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was Gandhi's philosophy, village organization. These people, they are attracting villagers to work in the factory, and they are exploiting them. Instead of producing food, they are attracted by so-called high salaries, to the factory, and they are producing bolts and nuts, motor parts. But food is produced somewhere else. But the food producers, they are working in the factory. Therefore scarcity of foodstuff. But this factory owner, he has got more money. He doesn't care. The poor public, they are suffering. Our philosophy is that you produce your food anywhere. You stay, and keep cows, take milk, produce vegetables, food grains, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is our philosophy. Make your life successful. By becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become free from all these troubles of material condition. This is our education. Don't be after these motorcars, television, and all nonsense things, sporting, wine, women. Don't be after these. Simply eat sufficiently, keep your health nicely, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, realize Kṛṣṇa, and go back to home. This is our philosophy.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Your disciples were kind enough to call on me and invite me to come and have a talk with you.

Prabhupāda: That is very kind of you.

C. Hennis: Thank you very much. I come from the International Labor Organization which is an organization in the United Nations family. It's the second organization after the United Nations itself, and it's interested in every form of labor, every form of activity connected with labor, and the protection of the worker, the welfare of the worker. And in many respects, of course, our preoccupations must overlap with yours in certain respects of the activities, of man in general and his protection and his well-being.

Prabhupāda: So according to our Vedic conception, the labor class man is supposed to be the fourth-class man. First-class man, intelligentsia, very intelligent, learned. Or intelligent—one who can understand up to God. To understand God requires great intelligence. So first intelligent class of men, up to, so they are called brāhmaṇa. The next intelligent class man, those who give protection to the society, kṣatriya. And the third class, those who produce food and distribute. They are third class. And other, all others, they are fourth class.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: My organization is in fact concerned with the well being of all four classes. It is not only with the laboring man. It's also primarily with the producers, but also with the managers, leaders, and to a certain extent also with the protective classes in that we are interested in the well-being of policemen, hospital personnel, doctors, nurses, that kind of social security workers, and that kind of person. We are interested in the intelligentsia in that they are professional workers, often independent, whose professional rights and obligations need to be safeguarded and codified. That's a standard laid down in the form of international labor standards. One of our activities, not perhaps now the most important, but one of the first.

Prabhupāda: No. My point was, point is that... Because one is fourth-class, therefore we are not interested in that—it is not my point. My point is that there are four classes of men: first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class. And our point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for taking care of all classes of men. Although by natural division there are four classes of men, first-class, second-class, third-class, fourth-class, but the example we generally give, just like in your body there are four divisions: the head division, the arm division, the belly division and the leg division, but all of them meant for keeping the body fit. And body is meant for giving supply to everyone of them. But if you comparatively make division, the head comes the first division, the arms comes the second division, the belly comes the third division, and the legs comes the fourth division.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: At the present moment in the society, there is very, very little care for the first-class intellectual class of men.

C. Hennis: The International Labor Organization has as one of its major aims to promote social justice, and that means that every class of worker, if you like to accept the four categories that you mentioned—the intellectual, the productive, the protective, and the laboring classes-should each have their proper place in society, should each have a full measure of human dignity, and should each have a proper share in the rewards for labor, both clearly material rewards and honors and dignity and leisure and time for, free time for meditation and so on. In the International Labor Organization, we are not like UNESCO devoted to the more philosophical and cultural and educational aspects for the intelligentsia, but I would draw your attention to the fact that the UNESCO is very much concerned with looking after the head part of society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments. And to that extent we do hope to find resolutions that have a very wide basis of ratification. After they are agreed upon by these three different elements of society represented in our International Labor Conference and in the other organs of the International Labor Organization, we endeavor to get the decisions ratified by national governments. Nevertheless the people who are here go back to their countries and try and get the decisions ratified so that a measure of uniformity in social justice and in the treatment of labor and protection of labor and in social security and in occupational safety and health and of all these things which are bound up with work and also payments to professional workers such as architects, nurses, doctors, people who work on a quite independent basis without being employed. It's not necessarily employees. Veterinarians and so on. The conditions of employment...

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Well, I think that the International Labor Organization is devoted to the reduction of inequalities between the different classes of men with a view to getting them all a better share of the good things of life, and by that, they may begin to reach a greater degree of human happiness, as they understand it, as the people themselves understand it. It may be that they don't understand it well.

Prabhupāda: No. Nature's way is not better share, but equal share. Just like when you take foodstuff, put it in the stomach, and when it is easily digested and transformed into different secretion and comes to the heart and becomes blood, there is equal distribution. Not that because brain is first-class, therefore the blood transformation to the brain should go more. No. Then it will be blood pressure, high blood pressure. This is nature's way, that... But when the energy goes to the brain, it acts differently. When the energy goes to the hands, it acts differently. The electricity energy is the same, but sometimes by working on the dictaphone, sometimes on the microphone, sometimes in electric heater, sometimes in refrigerator... The different apparatuses are there, but the energy is the same, equal. In that sense, the communistic idea that whatever energy is there, whatever resources are there, they should be equally distributed, that is nature's way. From the body we can understand that when the foodstuff turns into secretion, it goes to the heart and becomes blood. The blood is transfused through different veins to different parts of the body, and you will find everybody is satisfied.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: And then, in taking the analogy in terms of the world society, we have a society which is properly integrated and properly balanced. This is an idea which is by no means alien to the...

Prabhupāda: My original point was that if we take simply care of the fourth-class division of the society, do not take care of the first-class division of the society, then, in spite of taking care of the fourth-class society, it will not grow very nicely. Because the brain is not in order.

C. Hennis: Yes. I think that in fact my organization is really intimately concerned...

Prabhupāda: That was my point, that you are taking of the laborer class. That is just like the legs.

C. Hennis: Well "labor," in fact means any kind of work, any kind of activity, any kind of occupational activity.

Prabhupāda: But you cannot say the... Any kind of activities, but everyone has got particular type of activity.

C. Hennis: Quite so.

Prabhupāda: You cannot say, "I can do any kind of work." I can give you advice about spiritual life, but if you require medical advice, then you have to go to somebody else. You cannot expect medical advice from me. So this is not a fact, that everyone can do everything. No.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: No, no, I agree. I agree.

Prabhupāda: There must be division. There must be division, and each division must be maintained very nicely. Then the whole society is all right.

C. Hennis: That I would agree with. And my organization...

Yogeśvara: Perhaps one difference is that when we speak about the first-class, or the head division, the intellectual class, we are speaking about a class that is people who belong to that class by qualification, not simply that they have some title, that they are professor or that they are scholar. They have to be properly qualified.

C. Hennis: It's difficult to be a professor or a doctor unless you may have some type of qualification.

Yogeśvara: Well, he says it's difficult to be any kind of doctor or professor unless you are properly qualified.

Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.

C. Hennis: You see, my organization represents all the states in the world practically, all the states of any importance in the world, with the exception of a few like Monaco and San Marino and Andorra and that kind of place. And through my organization, the states of the world, and that doesn't only mean governments, express their concern and endeavor to improve the lot of all of the people who are active in some way in the economy and in modern society, these may be professional workers. We don't deal with medical doctors because that is the problems of the World Health Organization. We don't deal with teachers and university professors and philosophers and so on because that is more the problem of UNESCO, and they deal with it very thoroughly. We don't deal by any means fully with the actual production of foodstuffs. This is the FAO, the Food and Agriculture Organization who does it. What we do do, we look after the rewards the people get for the work they do in the ordinary way of life as employees in offices, in banks, in commerce, in shops, trading. We are very interested in developing rural areas and in improving the lot of the rural worker so that the rural worker will no longer be under a disadvantage by comparison with the workers in the towns, so that they will have proper facilities, proper leisure and proper opportunities for self-improvement.

Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Just hear me. But when you come to the form of human being, you should have discrimination. If you have no discrimination, simply you live like animal, then where is the difference? My only point is the lack of brain. Human being, he has been given by nature... They are also life, the fruits, the vegetables, the food grains, the milk, the sugar, they have got enough food value, and the human being should be satisfied within this group. Why they should maintain slaughterhouse, and do not think that they are not sinful, and still they want to be happy without caring for God? That is lack of brain.

C. Hennis: My organization is not directly concerned with giving people brains.

Prabhupāda: No, your organization may not be directly concerned, but the human society, if it is brainless, however organization you may make, it will never become happy. That is my point.

C. Hennis: It is concerned with taking away the obstacles which prevent people from attaining brain.

Yogeśvara: This is the obstacle.

Prabhupāda: No.

C. Hennis: One of the obstacles is just plain poverty. One of the obstacles is overwork.

Prabhupāda: No, no. A human being should be considerate. Everyone has got religion. Either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. There must be discrimination between sinful activities and pious activities. Human being should be engaged for pious activities, not for sinful activities. That is human society. If the human being does not discriminate what is pious activities and what is sinful activity, that means lack of brain. He has no brain. He is no better than the animals.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: You have to establish first of all a...

Prabhupāda: No, it is already there. It is already there. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Those who are interested in producing means of living, or foodstuff, in the society, say, the mercantile, the agriculturist, they should give protection to the cows. That is very essential, that milk is so important thing. If you get... Now, we have, in your western country, we have introduced such ideas in West Virginia. We have started one community project where we are keeping cows also. The cows are giving more milk than in other farm. They are so jubilant. Even up to eighty pounds milk, they are giving, because they know that "These people will not kill me." They know it. They are very happy. We don't kill their calves. In other farms, as soon as the calf is there, in front of the mother they are killed. You see? So if these things go on without any brain, without any intelligence, you may make hundreds of organization, the society will never be happy. This is our verdict.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Yes, but I don't think you can properly expect to indoctrinate people. I don't think that... At least, you can't expect an international organization to indoctrinate people on the national level. I'm sure that the...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not national. It should be international. Just like everyone... United Nation, it is meant for international activity. Our only proposition is that as the international organization, United Nations, they should keep a class of men who should act as brain. Then it will be all right. Without brain, simply legs and hands working, no direction, that is not very good.

C. Hennis: I think you'd have to see the secretariat of the United Nations and the United Nations family of organizations, not so much as leaders and bosses and generals, if you like, but rather as the servants of mankind. I don't go...

Prabhupāda: We can see provided we get the chance.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...

Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: But at least the direction must have brains. That's the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The brain... This is the work of the first-class man, this is the work of the second-class man. Just like any organization, any office, "These are for these men, the class. These are meant for the superintendent. These are meant for..." Everywhere, there must be organization, not that everyone should work whimsically. No. There must be a managing board, managing director. He is giving direction. Under his direction, everyone is organized. So the United Nations, such a great. This was organized for the total benefit of the human society, but there is no department which is actually can be called the brain organization.

C. Hennis: That's true. That's true.

Prabhupāda: That is my point.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: His point was that they can... He was thinking that man has the capacity for resolving his own problems. Simply we have to come together and organize.

Prabhupāda: That is United Organization. Why do they not think all these things?

Yogeśvara: There is no direction.

Prabhupāda: No direction. There is no brain. Therefore for the last, why last? Twenty years? Before that, in our younger days, the League of Nation, that was formulated in 1918, '19. So they are trying to unite the whole nation under different names from '18, apart from other year. So for the more than fifty-five, sixty years, they are all good brains of the nation. What they have done? That means they have no brain. The problems are increasing. Instead of decreasing the problems, they are increasing.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You used the example that in the United States...

Prabhupāda: Now there was fight between two opposite nations. Now, within the nation, there are so many opposite parties, they are fighting. So instead of nationwide, it has become homely affairs, my home, your home, fighting. That's all. Although we belong to the same nation. So what is the improvement? Now, in Italy the Fascist party and the Communist party, they fought and so many people died. So this will increase, increasing, partyism. So where is the brain?

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Is it that the śūdra class of men should be trained that they are serving either God or a God conscious leader, or should they be educated to feel that their work is for God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, provided you are for God. They will see and learn. If you simply teach them, you do not do anything, then how they will learn? Āpani ācari prabhu jīve śikhāilā. When they actually see that "These men are dedicated to God," then they'll do whatever you wish.

Yogeśvara: They are making better organizations, but they are not giving any example to the people.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is concocting some ideas, and they are going on as different organization. That's all. No standard idea. The standard idea is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that cows should be given protection, go-rakṣya. Who is following this? Everyone is making plan how to kill cows in a more scientific way. This is going on. Who is taking the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā? Nobody is taking. Even in India where Bhagavad-gītā is originally, these rascals also not taking. And they have become so brainless. Therefore the whole human society is a dead society. And the dead society's dressing, decorating, is useless waste of time. That's all. Their education, their advancement... He has no brain. What is the use of education? That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that snake is a snake. Do you think a snake decorated with a jewel on the hood is gentleman? Similarly, a man without brain, so-called education, is just like a jewel on the head of a serpent. Kim asau na bhayaṅkara. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita asks "Whether a snake with jewel on the head is not fearful? He is as much fearful as the other snake without the jewel." Similarly, if a human being has no brain, with his so-called education or no education, it is as good. The education has no value. He does not know what is good work, what is bad work, what is my aim of life, what is this body, what is the soul? If these things he does not know, then what is the value of his education? So the man is not satisfied?

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: For money. So rascal civilization is going on. Therefore I challenged that man, "Where is your brain?" There is no brain. You remember that?

Yogeśvara: From the International Labor Organization.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no brain.

Karandhara: Prabhupāda, in a recent study by U.S. Agricultural officials, they found that it is really uneconomical to eat meat. It takes so much energy and man hours to raise and transport and slaughter the cows that it makes it very wasteful.

Prabhupāda: Wasteful, yes. Therefore I say they have no brain. All, they are rascals. Rascal leaders. A little labor in agriculture will be sufficient to produce the family's food stock for the whole year. You can stock. You work only three months, and you get sufficient food for your whole family. And less nine months, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But these rascals will not do that. They will work hard like ass simply for eating. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). They will not accept easy life.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Dr. Sallaz: I'm still working because I have to entertain with money. In our world you cannot do anything without money. But what may interest you is that we have several manpower who are looking for truth, for the really truth, and trying to attain it and to follow it. And for this reason, it is said to go only according the scientific organization officials, so on, we went in quite revolutionary ways. For instance, we took all biology coming from the energetic point of view which is quite different. Not with the microscope, not with chemical analysis, but with the thinking that everything is only immaterial reaction (?). And with this we achieved extraordinary result. So we have looked at the official world as completely fool.

Yogeśvara: Are you able to understand when he speaks? I can repeat if you like.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you come here.

Dr. Sallaz: I believe on this point of view. (speaks in French with Yogeśvara)

Yogeśvara: He explains that the group that he is heading up is a little bit revolutionary in the biological field. Instead of taking biology from the point of chemical, microscopic analysis, they take biology from the point of view of energetic, that is to say, everything being energy, stemming from some source, that everything is energy.

Prabhupāda: This is nice. Actually, it is so.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: This is nice. Actually, it is so.

Dr. Sallaz: And our last official result is, of course, a scandal for the orthodox world. We did transmute matter from one to another. We achieved transmutation like alchemists in the Middle Age, you see. And a single element which is called iron, we make from it chrome which is another single element. And it is so revolutionary that we had the experimentation made completely not from our side but from official organization in France. (French)

Yogeśvara: What he says is that the final conclusion of their research work has been...

Dr. Sallaz: One of them.

Yogeśvara: One of their conclusions has been to be able to make one element to change into another element. They were able to take iron and transform it into chrome by chemical process, almost like alchemy, he says. And this was very startling for the scientific world.

Dr. Sallaz: Result. Result, only with physical heat, eight hundred, and pressure, only this. No laser, no atomic energy, nothing at all. Simply by natural measures.

Prabhupāda: We can give you one information, that metals like bell metal. Bell metal is combination of...? What is called? Tin? Tin? What is another name of tin?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Everyone cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is going on.

Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...

Prabhupāda: Yes, our organization is that. Why you are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Krsna is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. It is not easy going. Armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.

Devotee (3): Therefore, Krsna recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Krsna immediately gives him all facilities.

Devotee (3): There has never been a movement like this which has given them factual knowledge of God. Therefore, they think it's sentiment, religion.

Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal? Even if you take so-called responsibility, you will not be allowed to carry it out. The example I was giving., Napoleon, Hitler, and Gandhi, they took responsibility but they were driven away. What can you do? So what is the meaning of your responsibility? You will not be allowed to execute your responsibility. What remedy you have done that you will not be allowed, kicked out? Then what is your responsibility? Even if you are very nice gentleman, you have taken responsibility, but nature will not allow you to execute the responsibility. What is your answer to that? Big, big Napoleon, big, big Hitler, big, big Gandhi came and gone. Where is the responsibility executor? The Napoleon was given horse urine, you know, by the Britishers.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, that's it. But I realize that since about twenty, thirty years there is a big awakening in the western part of the world. Science and the technique coming out of science, which was invented to liberate the human being, right do exactly the contrary. People become more and more slaves of that organization which they created for their freedom.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes.

Professor Durckheim: You see? And today we realize the only thing, the only possibility not to be crushed, is to adapt themselves to the technical world, and in adapting themselves to the technical world, they become themselves little wheels of the big machine and stop to be human beings.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So he has gone?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained, that how this human form of life should be utilized, these necessities of life, not for to complete the necessities. Necessities of life, they are already supplied by God. Just like the birds and beasts, they are getting their necessities of life. They have no organization or no business, no factory, but they are getting their necessities of life. So Bhāgavata says, "This is not the problem, to acquire only the necessities of life. The only business is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life." (German) Read this verse.

Satsvarūpa:

kāmasya nendriya-prītir
lābho jīveta yāvatā
jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā
nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ
(SB 1.2.10)

"Translation: Life's desires should never be aimed at gratifying the senses. One should desire to live only because human life enables one to inquire about the Absolute Truth. This should be the goal of all works."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yad-uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). This is mission. Uttama-śloka-guṇanāvarṇanam.

Kirtirāja: We're advertising even by subscription. They can send in so much money, and every week they receive one or three tapes of Your Divine Grace's lectures. And there's kīrtanas...

Prabhupāda: American organization.

Rāmeśvara: They want very much to organize a radio show again with lectures and kīrtanas.

Prabhupāda: What is this? Q-tips?

Devotee: Cotton swabs.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I require a packet like this for my...

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda wants it?

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, do you want these?

Prabhupāda: You can take it, yes. Prasādam. (laughter) Vaiṣṇava's prasādam. Chaḍīyā vaiṣṇava sevā, niṣṭhā payeche keba. You are all Vaiṣṇavas. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. Eh?

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She feels that your affirmation is somewhat radical because she feels there are many groups and organizations of religion and philosophy and so on that are dealing with these matters.

Prabhupāda: Then why there is no solution?

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): Therefore she is asking you, "What is the solution?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that solution we are preaching, we are trying to preach. At least one section of people should know the science of the soul. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like medical necessity is there, does not mean that everyone should become medical man, similarly, the science of soul is necessity; it does not mean that everyone will be the transcendentalist or the scientist about soul. But at least one section of people must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul. As much as there is medical man—he knows perfectly well what is physiology, anatomy—there is engineer—he knows how to construct—similarly, a section must be there who knows perfectly well about the science of soul. So as there is need of medical man, engineer or lawyers or other, similarly, there is need of one section of expert who knows the science of soul. The medical man, the engineer, the archeologist or this or that, they are all meant for the body. Similarly, there must be one expert section who are meant for the soul. But all the universities, they have got these departments, medical department, engineering department, law department, but there is no department which is teaching perfectly well about the science of soul.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on. They are very good politicians.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: If we take payment, that is not service. That is business. That is business.

Jayatīrtha: It is, no doubt, a fact that Karandhara is not giving his full, is giving his full life as service. That is a fact. It may be taken...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our organization is to give service.

Haṁsadūta: And then another point in this connection is that when I was in Los Angeles last time, all the people that worked for Spiritual Sky, they were, they were starting to fall away because of Karandhara's karmic attitude...

Jayatīrtha: That's...

Prabhupāda: So this point you discuss.

Jayatīrtha: (to Haṁsadūta:) That problem we'll discuss, and I'll discuss it with you.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are also two reports we don't have here, and we should read those before... One is Karandhara's report, and one is Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu's report, who have investigated this.

Jagadīśa: He's told us to make his report.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Hm? Well, yes, that we have not heard yet. So we should hear and read the...

Prabhupāda: All have contact.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Atreya Ṛṣi: "Ācārya and..., of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement under the banner of International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I state that I have imposed all my faith, integrity and honesty in my aforesaid Guru Mahārāja with the result he is the sole responsible person and supreme authority of my present position and status which I have gained and I am holding in the organization of the International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. I, the said Mr. So and So, both names, do hereby swear in the name of Kṛṣṇa that I will bear true faith and alliance to the constitution, by-laws, rules, regulations and directions which," and this has been added, "which have been given, including four regulative principles..."

Madhudviṣa: They should be stated too.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Madhudviṣa: The four regulative principles should be stated.

Prabhupāda: No, that may not be. We know, everyone.

Madhudviṣa: We know it, but does someone else know it?

Prabhupāda: Is it necessary to mention?

Rūpānuga: It's a legal document also.

Bhagavān: Yeah, it should be mentioned.

Prabhupāda: Mentioned? Mention.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The president should be restricted that "You cannot spend more than this amount without sanction of GBC."

Acyutānanda: When we were in Bombay, there was an organization man, that one gentleman who was discussing with Bhagavān about the general organization of the Society, that you suggested we talk to him...

Prabhupāda: So many, they came. They simply talk.

Acyutānanda: There was one who...

Prabhupāda: They do not help.

Acyutānanda: No, when we were talking to him, he said that every temple should have its budget, and over that budget, the GBC should sanction. They have two accounts.

Prabhupāda: (Hums) Hmm...

Acyutānanda: Prabhupāda... (break) Mahāṁsa Mahārāja got the customs duty waiver for the buses from Germany... (break) What about the bullock carts?

Prabhupāda: Bullock cart is very good for India.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...There is no possible (?) Tell them, this United Nations Organization, that "You are all bogus. You cannot do it. Come to this platform, and you'll be able." They have proved themselves bogus for the last 25 years, I think. They started in 1947? Huh?

Devotee: 1945.

Prabhupāda: Forty-five. (To passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So how many years they have...

Devotees: Thirty years.

Prabhupāda: Thirty years. Uselessly. Wasting money and time... (break) ...that this movement is very good. He goes step forward, simply by saying this, that "These people are doing very nice." Ajñāta sukṛti. Kṛta-puṇya-puñja. So, both say (Hindi) (end)

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Uneducated, half-educated, poor, poverty-stricken. They could not do anything. Some of our Godbrothers I have beat them. (Like Tīrtha) (indistinct). In his previous life he had a big, big business organization. So therefore he has been able to organize. They will admit. They are coming from some third-class status of life. This is not tripe, this is fact.

Paramahaṁsa: Actually, I noticed that myself so many times in the way you handle money and the managerial affairs, very expert.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Śrī-caitanya-mano 'bhīṣṭaṁ sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale, svayaṁ rūpa gosvāmī. Who established the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Rūpa Gosvāmī. He was minister. He was not a cultivator, plow department.

Paramahaṁsa: It's very difficult in Kali-yuga to get the advanced materialists such as ministers and big businessmen...

Prabhupāda: You can convert. It is not difficulty. How the Rūpa Gosvāmī was converted? Because the expert man... That person was Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So if you become expert, you can convert. How this governor was coming, how these politicians were coming?

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: First of all, you have to understand what is the basic principle of civilization, what we want to fulfill, what is the goal. There are different species of life beginning from aquatics, fishes and animals in the water. Then, as the water dries up, then vegetation come. In this way there is evolution from aquatics to vegetable life, then moving, insects, reptiles. Then, gradually, birds. From insect, the flies come out, and then flies gradually comes to bird. Then from birds to beast, four-legged. Then from beast to human being. Then human being, the aborigines, uncivilized. Then you come to civilized life, which is generally known as Aryan life. So the Aryan civilization, Vedic civilization... In this way we get this human form of life, developed consciousness. Now we should try to understand, "What I am? Am I this body or something else?" That is the subject matter of enquiry. So where is that department of knowledge?

Justin Murphy: Where do we fit in?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Justin Murphy: We, the organization that I work for, the government that I work for, is, of course, very, very different, no doubt, in ideas and in philosophies to all of you, and you for example. We work within, however, a situation where we are concerned that within the framework of Australia's society, which involves people, private enterprise, industry, increasing population, all of these placing demands on what naturally is Australia, what you were talking about to begin with. The evolution of Australia, the continent, the land mass, and the birds, the animals. Of course, we have a magnificent and unique and diverse fauna and flora.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They already there, four classes of men, but they should be properly trained up. Then the society will be in order. Just like this man, he is considered to be first-class man in the society. He is in charge of some department. But actually, he is fourth class. So as he is little trained up by a moment's instruction, if he agrees to be trained up, he can become. He's young man, within thirty years.

Amogha: Hmm. A very high position also. CSIRM. Commonwealth Science and Industrial Research Organization. He's commissioned by the government. They have to be very top intellectual researcher.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: And he is in a good position materially.

Devotee (1): You spoke to three of those men in Melbourne last time.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Amogha: Those scientists who came to see you last year in Melbourne were also from that organization.

Devotee (1): The same place.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Amogha: There were three men and you made them eat the gulabjammon.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah. He was there?

Amogha: No, no. But they were from the same organization, the Melbourne branch.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The same scientists came.

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Oh, he remembers. Then that man remembers, I gave him gulabjammon.

Amogha: No, not this man.

Prabhupāda: That other man.

Amogha: Oh, yes. He sure did. That's a all-over Australia organization.

Prabhupāda: Good organization.

Devotee (1): They are inquisitive because they come to see you.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, you did not invite him?

Amogha: Yes, but he would not come unless he was interested.

Prabhupāda: In the modern society there is no idea of first-class man, what is first-class man. They take it, a minister is first-class man. A first-class man is by these qualities: śamo damas titikṣā. It is not by the fat salary. By the first-class qualities.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Because they are not doing according to śāstra. They are doing whimsically.

Dr. Copeland: But they are doing very good social work.

Prabhupāda: That social work has nothing to do with spiritual work.

Dr. Copeland: Does this organization do social work?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the best social work. We are giving the best education, best knowledge, best hope of next life. And what they are giving? They do not know what is next life even.

Dr. Copeland: When you do the translations...

Prabhupāda: I have all translated during these ten years. I translated, began translating from 1968, or '9, I was publishing that Back to Godhead paper even from my gṛhastha life, from 1944.

Dr. Copeland: And when you do do the translation...

Prabhupāda: Then I began translating from 1968 or '69. And I published my first book in 1962. Then next was in 1964. And then the third volume was published in 1965. And then I came to America. And then I translated all these books, whatever you see, about fifty books. This is about eleven hundred pages. Other books are not less than four hundred pages.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That we can do.

Director: That you can do. As long as they don't contradict your...

Prabhupāda: No. Our principle is this.

Director: I mean a lot of church organizations taking children and...

Prabhupāda: You can see one day. If you kindly come early in the morning and stay one day, you see our activity, how nicely we are doing. And then do the needful.

Director: I don't come here as a person. I'm representing my department.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be...

Director: The fact what you convince me or not is... our society should,... I can only say that we're dealing with very poor people. We tell them what you're doing, and perhaps something can be combined. Or I can say to the minister that it emerged and it goes on from there. And I can go back to my other duties.

Prabhupāda: Then they can give us some contribution per capita for taking care. Then we can invite. We can increase the accommodation. Now we are doing. We have no business, no income. We are selling our books. So our income is limited. Still we invite anyone, come. But if government encourages us, then we can increase the program.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Ah, "the parents who will understand them." My students, mostly they are young, mostly within thirty, some of them little above thirty. So some of their parents they come and congratulate me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come to our country." That I receive many. But there are other many parents, they are not happy.

Yogi Bhajan: We are starting a parent organization for our kids. We invite the mothers, parents, ask them to stay, and send them back. Idea is basic, and the fundamental idea is: what you are doing is God's will, these people who are following you is God's will, and those who will receive it as God's will... But it is not that everybody sees that God will.

Prabhupāda: No. God's will is open. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). God says that "You always think of Me. You just become My devotee, worship Me, and offer your respect to Me." This is God's will. "And if you do this, then you are coming back to Me." It is clearly said. God's will is declared. There is no secret. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... Find out this ninth verse, er, Ninth Chapter. Yes.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they can waste very lavishly.

Yogi Bhajan: But they are very beautiful people. One of the girl there in your organization almost brought tears to my eyes. And it is very seldom I have tears, and I love them when they come. And she said to me, she just came and hugged me. "Oh, Yogiji, I love you, you came." I said, "Oh, don't tell anybody. I just want to go around. And I want to run away." So she knows me. And she took me to her one store where there where a lot of books, and she asked me to have some books, and some of them I had, some I didn't. So I picked up. And she said, "You know, we were raised like dogs. Now we are being raised like gods. You think this old man, our god, is going to stay with us?" You know, she is very young in your organization. I said, "What are you talking, a old man?" She said, "Our Prabhupāda." Then she took your whole name with reverence. And I looked in her eyes. I said, "Look, my dear daughter, if that man has taught you so much love, then you will never be separated. Keep doing what you are doing. You will be all right." There is devotion. There is a power to learn. There is a power to gain. They have many faults, but they have many merits also. I think it is a time to present them, as they perform of the humanist to the whole world. And that will take away a lot of misunderstandings.

Prabhupāda: No, misunderstanding, there are... That will continue. You see?

Yogi Bhajan: I hundred percent agree. When we wanted to join the...

Prabhupāda: Especially in the Western countries they had misunderstanding with Christ so that they crucified him. You see? So this is the...

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: A little indication that there's God, but no real philosophy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...manufacturing so many things, United Nations, World Health Organization, and this philanthropism, but the real thing is wanting that the human life is meant for understanding God, there is no such organization. This is the only organization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (break) ...neglectful I do not know. (break)

Devotee: I'm very happy in my new engagement. I'm finding very much success now. We have made four devotees since I have left, three days.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good. (break) ...the definition of God according to the theologicians?

Dr. Judah: Well, there would be many different definitions of God, I suppose, in Christian theology.

Prabhupāda: Why many?

Dr. Judah: It involves various theologies...

Prabhupāda: There is no summary?

Dr. Judah: No. There is no actual statement of any one person or any concept concerning God that would be accepted by all Christians. There are various theologies about God, as I said.

Prabhupāda: No, theologists, some of the prominent theologist, what do they say? How they describe God?

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Viṣṇujana: According to national statistics, as far as curing drug problems and crime problems, it's seen that social organizations that are supported by the town councils, etc. are usually about 3% effective in cases cured of either drug addiction or crime. But as far as religious organizations are concerned, some of them are 70, 80% effective in cases that have been attempted cure. So it's, as far as percentage cured, the process of introducing God consciousness is much more effective than some social reform or rehabilitation work or something like that.

Prabhupāda: No, social reform will automatically come. The first-class reform, the brāhmaṇas, if their advice is taken, then the other classes the kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdras, they become automatically.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Which process? Drug addiction has been helped by somebody?

Brahmānanda: No, the mayor's saying that the administration is not against supporting religious organizations.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: He gives the example of one religious organization.

Prabhupāda: This is everything. Religious, social, political, philanthropical, science, everything included. We can give advice for solving any problem. That we have got all these books, practical. And in India there is political problem. Everywhere it is going on. They do not follow the standard way. Who will be the politicians? Here is the..., described. What are the politicians? Second-class, they are taken second-class. What is that? Śaurya tejaḥ?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Heroism..."

Prabhupāda: Heroism, yes. Śaurya tejaḥ...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyam (BG 18.43).

Prabhupāda: Ah, read this, read...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam.

Prabhupāda: Yuddhe cāpalāyanam. A kṣatriya should be so trained up, when there is fight, he must come out, forward. Not that he will sit down in his secluded place and poor man will fight. No. He should come forward as leader, "Come on." That is kṣatriya quality, yuddhe cāpalāyanam. Formerly there was fight, but the leaders, they would come face to face first of all. And if the leader, one of the leader is killed-yuddha means one party must be vanquished, fight—then the war is finished. The main person, chief person is now killed, so there is no more war.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That we have already answered. Just the Rockefeller. He may be also called parasite.

Devotee: He is.

Prabhupāda: But he has got enough money to engage you to work for me. "You work; I enjoy." Devotees are so clever that you collect money... Just like our Kṛṣṇa dāsa collected money by doing hard work and gave me a check. Why shall I work? (laughter) I am so intelligent, I have created an organization-check is coming without my work. So who is intelligent? Why shall I work?

Bahulāśva: Better to just chant and dance.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: That is why they become mad because they become envious that we are chanting and dancing. They are working very hard.

Paramahaṁsa: They won't join.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they asked in Los Angeles that "How is that? You do not work and you are living so comfortably?" They are envious. And the greatest economist, Professor Marshall, he has said that if man gets money, automatically he will not work. That is the basic prin... Therefore they are creating daily new invention.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No.

Paramahaṁsa: He became world famous. So they concluded that anyone who wanted to could get normal information from normal sources and theoretically construct an atom bomb. But they don't have the equipment, but they have the knowledge now. So they're proposing in that sense that any terrorist organization within the next five years will be able to invent their own atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Bahulāśva: He was bribing one city in Florida that "You pay me so much money or else I'm going to blow up your city." And he sent them the plans, "Here is the bomb." So they became very frightened. And when they traced the letter, they found that it was only a sixteen year old boy who had done this. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the sound of the church bell very much. It is very attractive.

Brahmānanda: You want one like that for Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Death.

Devotee (4): Yes. (laughter) And decrease the number of births. It is called Zero Population Growth, and they are actually thinking like this.

Prabhupāda: And who is going to decrease the population of the mosquito? It is increasing. This means real business they are forgetting.

Devotee (4): So in every school they have so many organizations. Is this a good idea, that we can have debating programs like this along with selling books.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let them study another line of education. Just like there is religious section. It has nothing to do with the engineering, but there is section. Similarly, in religious section or in another section these things should you study, Bhāgavata. That is good. Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, Bhāgavata.

Jayatīrtha: Shall we take your leave now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Rāmeśvara: Jaya, thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1975, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Everyone, cent percent godless, neither they have got intelligence to understand what is God. This is the position.

Yogeśvara: Then we are giving them the intelligence as well as the answers? Because if they have no intelligence to understand...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our organization is that. Why we are opening so many centers? Just to give these rascals intelligence. Why Kṛṣṇa is recognizing so nicely a preacher? Because He knows that he has to face so many difficulties. He is not easygoing, armchair politician, no. He has to face so many difficulties.

Mādhavānanda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa recognizes by giving knowledge of Himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa immediately gives him all facilities.

Mādhavānanda: There has never been a movement like this which has given factual knowledge of God. Therefore they think it's sentiment, religion.

Prabhupāda: So we have to abide by their sentiment? Because they are rascals, we have to become rascal?

Yogeśvara: (aside:) The top has come down? (pause)

Prabhupāda: What is the... Time now?

Harikeśa: 6:17.

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now, Bon Mahārāja, our Godbrother, went. What did he bring? He brought some HMD. HMD. You know HMD? You do not know?

Indian man (3): Hindustan Machine Tools.

Indian man (2): When Bon Mahārāja came I asked him many things, many questions. He was praising, and he said that more than 50% people are liking our organization in U.S.A. Only due to that, their children got saved from intoxication. And they are happy that their lives are also... That's what he told me. I told him, "What is your impression about our organization?" Then he told me everything. He also told me that one or two places (indistinct) (break)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...official said, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." When we went to...

Prabhupāda: They have been forced to forget Hare Kṛṣṇa by the so-called rascal leaders. Otherwise India is meant for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, the whole India. (break) ...scandalous these Māyāvādīs and next the politicians, killing the spirit of India. These Māyāvādīs teaching "Why you are after God? You are God." That's all. And he says, "Yes, I am God. Why shall I worship God?" This is the... And becoming God, when they do not get any relish of becoming God, then the politician says, "It is all useless. Come to the political field. Take daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva. That's all, finished." The Māyāvādī creates the field of atheism, and later on, the politician make them perfect atheist.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

rabhupāda: Yes. They have become more than Śaṅkarācārya.

Dr. Patel: They have seen the...

Prabhupāda: Just like later on, the Gandhi's disciples became more than Gandhi, more than Gandhi. That's all. Gandhi planned village organization, and Jawaharlal Nehru planned industrialization. And everything failed. There is no money, and he wanted to establish industry like America.

Dr. Patel: But he did not understand economics, sir. What is money after all? Money is nothing but the labor transformed into materials. We had the huge labor of sixty crores of people. He was capable of transforming that labor into material unfortunately and...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, they changed the Gandhi's program.

Dr. Patel: That is what Gandhi understood, but he did not.

Prabhupāda: How he can understand? He wanted to utilize to become prime minister.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (1) (Indian man): Are you striving for peace in the world? Is it one of your goals?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is trying for peace in the world. I have already referred to the United Nations organization. They are also trying peace of the world. But one must know the right way how to bring peace in the world. So our proposition is that if you keep the human being as good as animal, then how there can be peace? There cannot be any peace among animal society. (aside:) Aiye. Let him... Jaya. This is our proposal. So we are bringing these Europeans, Americans, Africans, Canadians, Australians to this platform of understanding, that "We are human being; we are not animals." The... First I have already explained. So long we shall remain in the bodily concept of life, then we remain animal.

Guest (2) (Indian man): What was the necessity of creating this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?

Prabhupāda: Necessity is that the human form of life is meant for advanced education. Unfortunately, they are being educated to live like animals. That is the mistake. So we want to correct this mistake.

Press Conference -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (2): But the spiritual organizations in India, all the spiritual teachings in India, have always put great emphasis on the fact that we are spiritual beings. So what was the necessity of creating another movement to say the same things?

Prabhupāda: No. We are... You have brought in the question of India. We are talking of the human society, so why you are bringing India? We are not talking about India only. Human being does not mean only Indian. You see, human being—all, outside India, inside India, everywhere. Wherever there is human being, they require this education. And it is the India's duty. Because India has got the opportunity to be spiritually advanced by the grace of learned, saintly persons, so they should first of all make their life perfect by taking education and distribute the knowledge throughout the whole world. That is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, that... The exact word is

bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

Anyone who has taken birth in India as human being, he should first of all make his life perfect and... (break) ...no customer is coming, we go to sell our books. Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prof. Olivier: ...the points that you raised, and I came in in the middle of a discourse.

Prabhupāda: I do not know who were those gentlemen. They are your teaching staff, that Mr. Chadda(?) and others? They were introduced as Ārya-samājīs. They belong to the teaching staff, no?

Prof. Olivier: No. The Ārya-patha-nidi-sabhā, which is an organization which was started about a hundred years ago by Swami Dayananda in India, with a motto of bhavantu viśvam āryam: "Let us make all men noble through search after truth," and that started in South Africa about fifty years ago. And one of the leading gentlemen in the organization today was the one sitting on the extreme left-hand side, Mr. Chautay. They are celebrating their fiftieth anniversary here in South Africa with a week's program, and they invited these two ācāryas over from India. One is from Delhi. I don't know where the other one is from. They invited them over to grace their celebrations. So they have been having a week of celebrations starting in the City Hall last Sunday.

Prabhupāda: This Sunday?

Prof. Olivier: The Sunday that's just passed, yes, they started there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: So why not give us? Then we can make a nice...

Indian man (3): I think we could... (break) ...him and see what they are asking for applications from various charitable organizations.

Prabhupāda: So I have come temporarily. Why don't you approach?

Indian man (3): Yes, we will...

Prabhupāda: If he is known to you, you can approach, that "Here is a good cause, International..."

Indian man (3): I will send a message to him to come and see you this evening.

Prabhupāda: Ah, that will be very nice. Then I can talk. Yes. When you will bring him?

Indian man (3): I think you are meeting the officials of various organizations this evening?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've been invited.

Prabhupāda: Oh, the organizations.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Different organizations in Durban. Six p.m.

Indian man (3): Six p.m. Yes. I will send a message to him today.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Also Dr. Desai, his brother.

Indian man (3): Yes. Dr. Desai has been very helpful in establishing societies and schools and charitable organizations. Yes, I will also send a message to Dr. Desai to come and see you. Dr. Desai sacrificed all his medical practice and all for the people.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Indian man (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: (wind blowing) Pranair arthair dhiya vacaḥ śreya acaraṇam... (break) ...by words, by intelligence, everyone should serve Kṛṣṇa, then life is successful. Pranair arthair dhiya vacaḥ.

Indian man (1): What of meetings, religious meetings, especially here in South Africa?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man (1): In South Africa here especially, number of religious meetings, they start off with the Gāyatrī mantra three times, and at the end of the meeting they have a ṣantipat. Now is there any real necessity for a religious meeting to start off with the Gāyatrī mantra and end with santipat?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's not bad.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Hospitals, there are many, but real hospitals... to cure the material disease, there is no hospital. They are... There are hundreds and thousands of hospitals for curing the disease of the body, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul. That is the defect. So we are opening hospital for curing the disease of the soul. They have no information about the soul throughout the whole world. Even so-called religious organizations, they have no information about the soul. They go to religious ceremonies for material profit. They do not know what is the necessity of the soul and what is the disease of the soul. They do not know. (break) ...nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. What is the goal of life, these people, they do not know, mūḍhas. Mūḍha means rascals, gadha. They do not know what is the goal of life. They take calculation of the duration of life, that fifty, sixty, or hundred years. That's all. Beyond this, after this, they do not know. Yes. That is the defect. (break) Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that this temporary attempt to become happy-antavanta phalaṁ teṣām—it will end with the end of the body. But they do not know beyond this. Therefore alpam-medhasām, they are less intelligent. Just like a child playing. He likes to play and does not go to school. So do you think that is all right?

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are called mūḍhas, all rascals. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. How you can understand that this man is mischievously meritorious? How you can understand? Duṣkṛtina means mischievously meritorious. This man is meritorious, but he is using his merit for mischievous activities. That is called duṣkṛtina. So how you can understand this man is mischievously meritorious? You can say, "How is that? A man is meritorious and at the same time he is mischievous?" There're so many organization, especially in Western country, big, big rogues' organization simply for cheating, simply for smuggling. They have got merit. Otherwise how they have organized such big, big organization? But what for? All mischievous activities, harassing government, harassing people. The merit is being used. There are many organizations in the Western country. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Many, many. All these realty business. Realty business, you know?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Realty.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: All these buildings are constructed by the Britishers.

Cyavana: Some Indian organizations, firms, come also. Big construction companies from India, they are combined.

Brahmānanda: Usually, in all of the business concerns here, the top man is British, managing their activity.

Prabhupāda: So when they kill such brutally in the farm, the Britisher did not take any step?

Brahmānanda: Not very effective steps. They declared a state of emergency, and they brought soldiers here, and they had huge arrests. They had camps just outside of Nairobi, and they were arresting tens of thousands, huge camps. But the tactics that they would use, the Africans, the British soldiers couldn't...

Prabhupāda: They brought British soldiers or Indian soldiers?

Brahmānanda: I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: British soldiers, so long, how they'll come? They were using Indian soldiers.

Indian: I know that Indian peoples, they helped them to get this freedom. That is the reason they have a little bit respect for the Indians now, this president.

Prabhupāda: How Indian people helped them?

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The Western learned circle, they are admitting that the greatest contribution of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is these authentic translation of Vedic literature. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Mahāṁsa: (break) Many people in Bangalore, when I went to see them, they knew about our movement. "Oh, yes, Hare Kṛṣṇa. You all do bhajan..." They call us bhajan mandali. Then when we started preaching to them, showing them the philosophy, the books and all the activities that we are doing all over the world, they were really, they were shocked. They said, "Oh, we never knew you were doing so much." And they said there is no other organization which is comprising of all the different kinds of activities, all kinds of welfare and spiritual activities that we are doing. If we just had many preaching parties and go all over and show people what all the activities that we are doing, people will accept us. They will know more about our movement. Otherwise right now they just think that we are just a kīrtana group, bhajan mandali.

Prabhupāda: (break) What did he speak?

Mahāṁsa: He spoke on different verses, one by one, of the twelfth chapter. But no conclusion. Every lecture there was no conclusion. So he leaves the people in a blank. There is no conclusion to any of his lectures. And his philosophy is "Kṛṣṇa means black. Black means unknown. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is unknown. Kṛṣṇa is unknown. We cannot know Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: And what about others' version who knows Kṛṣṇa? Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu or all the ācāryas? (end)

Page Title:Organization (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:14 of Dec, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=96, Let=0
No. of Quotes:96