Expressions researched:
"oppose"
|"opposed"
|"opposes"
|"opposing"
|"opposition"
|"unopposable"
|"unopposed"
Hayagrīva: He opposed Caitanya's sannyāsa.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He did not oppose. He did not oppose. He simply, after Caitanya's acceptance of sannyāsa, He wanted simply that He should come to Advaita's place so that His mother may see Him for the last time. That was His plan.
Prabhupāda: Of course, such description is not in the Vedas, but in some sources we can understand that one king wanted to enter the heavenly kingdom, but he was opposed. He was opposed by the demigods. So much information we have got. So those who are not fit to live there or enter there, maybe they will be opposed by the inhabitants there. And that is also natural to think. If somebody all of a sudden comes to your country, oh, there is immediately immigration department. They will see the bona fides, how you can enter? So why don't you take that also? If moon planet is inhabited by more intelligent class of living entities how do we expect that without opposition we will be allowed to enter?
Reporter: So they are said to be a more intelligent entities.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Oh yes. They are living ten thousand years, they are not intelligent? Their standard of living, their mode of civilization, their mode of thinking, everything is higher than this planet.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So many things are not visible to our eyes.
Reporter: And when you speak of the analogies of one, say, a foreigner coming to another country and wanting to do whatever he wants to do there and being rejected or opposed by the inhabitants of that country, do you say only by analogy that there might be opposition to earth people?
Prabhupāda: No. There are informations. Somebody trying to enter in the heavenly planet was opposed because he was not qualified.
Prabhupāda: Naturally, when I oppose, then I must be hostile.
Reporter: Yes. And you expect that they would oppose?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: The example of the king that wanted to enter the heavenly kingdom and was opposed, is this in this book also?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: And he was opposed by the demigods?
Prabhupāda: Demigods, or the residents in the heavenly planet.
Reporter: Well, what I'm getting at is that if for instance you say that first this conviction that they would not be able to land, and secondly that whatever earth people would go there would be opposed and would not be able to safely return, if you say this, based on Vedic literature, and other members of the Kṛṣṇa movement heard this, and then if the feat were accomplished, would this not seem a contradiction or something that had been said would be the case and then the opposite was proved true? Would this...
Prabhupāda: What is that contradiction? There is nothing contradiction. We say that if you get a suitable body you can enter there. So if by your scientific process you can equip yourself with suitable body you can enter there. Where is the contradiction?
Reporter: Well, you said that spacesuit was not a suitable...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. That is a fact. That is not suitable.
Prabhupāda: Interfered... Interfered... Now you try to understand. You come from Europe or from India in a very nice gentlemanly suit. Does it mean that immigration department will allow you to enter the country? That means even if you have got suitable suit they may be opposed if you haven't got, I mean to say, proper qualities and other bona fides. Because to live in the moon planet there are different qualities and bona fides. So not only you have got to make a proper suitable dress but you have to qualify yourself for getting visa of entrance into moon planet.
Reporter: What I'm saying is that if astronauts were able to land and return to the earth successfully...
Prabhupāda: What is that successful?
Reporter: I would predict that you would not feel that there was... Would you then interpret it that they were able to get the visa or to...
Prabhupāda: No, if you go and land there and come back, that may be a pleasant thing for you, but we don't think it is a very nice thing. If I go in New York border and see and come back and I am not allowed to enter, why should I take so much trouble? It is useless trouble.
Prabhupāda: So we never believed in such statement. We never believed.
Reporter: Right. What I mean is that when Dan Donnelley told me that in some of your lectures you had said that it would be impossible for man to land on the moon and that they would be opposed by beings on the moon, those sounded like very definite statements that if those things did not happen, then there would be a similar potential for a crisis within the Kṛṣṇa movement of people hearing one thing said and it doesn't happen in the future. Then if those things are said that definitely, then there's always a danger that...
Prabhupāda: No. Danger... When the scientists said that 1965 they would go. Did not happen. What danger has happened?
Reporter: The danger to the faith of those who felt, say, in jehovah's Witnesses, those who believed that the jehovah's Witness knew and nothing happens. They say, "Well..."
Prabhupāda: But they're still believing. First of all, they say that 1965 they're going to the moon planet. That has not happened. Now you say 1975. So they are still believing. So a class of men will always be cheated like that. A class of men. So there will be no danger of cheating such persons.
Guest (1): No, that is well proved. If there is need...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So our present fighting is atheism, against atheism. They say, "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God." We are fighting against these principles. So our fighting is very strong. You don't think that we are keeping idly. I have come here to fight with these atheists, you see, and we go everywhere. We are fighting with atheists all over the world. So we are meeting so many opposing elements. You see? They say, "God is dead." In America, when I first went, they were popularizing theory that "God is dead." But they again accepted and: God is not dead, but He is here with Swamiji." They accepted. So these atheistic theories, that "Everyone is God," "I am God," "you are God," "God is dead," "there is no God," "God is not person"—we are fighting against these principles. We say, "God is Kṛṣṇa. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. He is a person, and He is not dead." This is our preaching. Therefore it is a fight.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point. Vivekananda has no distinction of eating. "Eat any... All Brahman, all Nārāyaṇa. You are Nārāyaṇa. Goat is Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is going in the belly of Nārāyaṇa. What is the wrong? One Nārāyaṇa is going, being absorbed by another Nārāyaṇa." But he is not agreeable to be eaten by a tiger, another tiger Nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes it is done deliberately. Sometimes it is done deliberately because everyone in this material world is imperfect. Therefore there is tendency of cheating. That is one of the qualifications of the conditioned soul. He becomes mistaken. He becomes illusioned. He cheats and his senses are imperfect.
Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.
Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.
Prabhupāda: So because everything in this material world is the perverted reflection therefore we sometimes love somebody and we become frustrated. So therefore others see that this man has loved that girl and he's now frustrated, "Oh, why shall I love?" That is due to frustration. But there is a perfectional stage. There is a perfectional stage, therefore we say it is perverted reflection. Just like our Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa—that is the perfectional stage of love. Rādhārāṇī is a young girl and Kṛṣṇa is a young boy. There is love. So originally this love between young boy and girl is there but that is in perfect stage. Here in this material world, the same thing is pervertedly reflected. Therefore it is imperfect. So we have come to the perfectional stage, not be afraid and give it up-frustration. But, love is there. But there is a perfectional stage of love, we have to learn that.
Dr. Weir: It's the great called Agapes(?) as opposed to the old other problem Eros.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Lust and..., Eros, lust. Agape(?) is pure love, transcendental love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is... This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring everything to the perfectional stage. The others, they're, out of frustration, they want to stop all activity. That is voidism—to stop all this activity. Buddha philosophy is more or less based on this voidism, make everything null and void. No more activities. No more love. We don't say. Just like you cannot see properly because our eyes are diseased. So cure the disease and then you see properly. And other says, "All right, pluck it out. The disease in the eyes, take away." That is not very good proposition. We say that make treatment to make the eyes to see properly. Remedy problem. Our proposition is: Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena... (CC Madhya 19.170). We simply cleanse the process. The seeing process we cleanse. We don't pluck out the eyes out of frustration. Don't see, make everything void. No. We don't say that because there is no void. It is simply frustration. There is variety, nice variety, spiritual variety. We are bringing people to that position.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question I believe and don't believe, it is a fact. God is there—you believe or not believe—but God must be there. Your believing, not believing, it doesn't matter. If I don't believe there is no president, it does not mean there will be no president. There must be president. I do not know who is president. (indistinct) So people are in misconception that there is no God, God is dead, I am God, you are God, God is not person, so many God theories. But we have no theory, we have got a positive presentation, "Here is God." With that conviction we have to push on. So you must be prepared in that way. There will be so many questions, so many opposing elements. You have to face them by your arguments, by your knowledge. This is required. At least we must have faith in that way. We have to push on. This is the fact. We are Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā's sampradāya. So, Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā is giving. Just like last evening we were reading about Brahmā's thought. He is posing, "Yes, here is, You are God." Although He was child, "He appears to be a child, but You are God." That is Brahmā (indistinct). He is giving support on that point.
Prabhupāda: That is the point. Our advancement means the more we meet opposing elements, "Oh, that is alright." Therefore preacher is the best devotee because he is a soldier. Just like government gives all importance to the fighting soldier. When there is war, all comforts for the soldier first, then the civil people. There was no butter in Germany, there was no butter. But the soldiers were profusely supplied with butter. And sometimes when the enemy attacks, they throw it away and go away and go to another shelter and still there is butter. That my Godbrother (indistinct) when he first came to India I asked him that, "I heard that you German people are very robust, stout and strong, why you are so thin and weak?" So he replied me in this way that, "In my childhood when I was eight years old weekly I was getting butter for (indistinct)". Everything was controlled, even for children. But the soldiers, there was no control. So that is, my point is, that those who are soldiers, fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, they are brave soldiers. Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). Kṛṣṇa says, "Nobody is dearer than him who is in the process of preaching this Bhagavad-gītā." So, in order to become very dear to Kṛṣṇa... Actually that is the position.
Prabhupāda: Advaitācārya.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Advaitācārya. On the other side. and this side, sometimes revolving. The other day, I told a gentlemen that Śiva is rather the leader of the opposition party.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in Dakṣa-yajña, that is the curse.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: In Dakṣa-yajña and in many a place, many demons is encouraged by him. We find.
Prabhupāda: But when Pracetās, Pracetās, they met Śiva...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: That, that is that Śiva, devotee Śiva.
Prabhupāda: Oh, they...
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Mārkaṇḍeya also in Bhāgavatam, Mārkaṇḍeya worshiped Śiva. But that is the devotee Śiva. It is clearly mentioned in Bhāgavatam. Mārkaṇḍeya's worshiping Śiva. But that Śiva is the pure devotee of Nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Pracetās, Śiva, the Pracetās met in this material world or in the spiritual world? They met in the material world.
Prabhupāda: Misleader.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Misleader, misguider, Gaṇeśa, his eldest son. And he give support, Śiva. Just as C.R. Das, he encouraged the Subash Bose and the other members of opposition party but he himself was a little common person.
Prabhupāda: So, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja, how do you like this place?
Satsvarūpa: Very transcendental.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (Bengali) Śrutakīrti, where is Śrutakīrti?
Prabhupāda: Here is Śrutakīrti.
Father Tanner: Is there a spirit opposed to the divine spirit?
Prabhupāda: Spirit opp...?
Father Tanner: Opposed. Taking that the, you know, that God is good,...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Father Tanner: ...is there another spirit that is not good?
Prabhupāda: No, we are all another spirit. Just like the father and the son. The father is also a spirit. The son is also another spirit.
Father Tanner: Can there be opposition in the spirit world?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes. Just like father has got ten sons. Some of them are opposition to the father. And some of them are very obedient.
Father Tanner: But the... I'm not saying of the spirit in man. I'm saying of spirits in themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Spirit in themselves, they are not opposition.
Father Tanner: Can they be in opposition?
Prabhupāda: No. When they are in opposition, they have to accept this material body. Just like the citizens in the prison house, it means they are all in opposition to the laws of the state, similarly, anyone who is in this material world, they are in opposition to the supreme will of the Lord. Therefore they are put into this material world in varieties of life. So they can stop that opposition and again go back to home, back to Godhead.
Father Tanner: You'd like to go, would you?
Mrs. Wells: Yes.
Father Tanner: I'm sorry. Mrs. Wells has to go, sir. And you look very tired.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not tired. I am a little old.
Prabhupāda: ...what is śāstra. Everything is there. You have to know it. What is avatāra. That is my business, how to know. But there is, everything's there. What... Everyone can know it. Sādhavaḥ, sādhu. Sum and substance of sādhu means devotee. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). "He's sādhu." Who? Ananya-bhāk: "Without any diversion of attention, he's completely engaged in My devotional service... Even if he has got some minor defects, still, because he is completely surrendered and engaged in My service, he's sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). So this is the test of sādhu. Sādhu means he must be a devotee. Sādhu does not mean having saffron color and long beard and doing all nonsense. No. Sādhu means... First test is that he is unflinching, without any deviation. Api cet sudurā..., bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Ananya-bhāk means he does not know anything except the service of the Lord. That is the qualification of sādhu. So similarly, in other places also, the definition of sādhu is there. Sādhu means titikṣavaḥ: he's very tolerant because a sādhu has to face so many opposing elements and sometimes very offensive, but he has to tolerate.
Prabhupāda: That is a good philosophy.
Banker: Therefore, then he started building libraries all over the country and everything else, besides his steel company. But this has been a big fight. It still is a big fight. Today you have the people who support welfare and those who oppose it.
Prabhupāda: No. We don't oppose wealth.
Banker: Welfare. Payment to people who don't work.
Prabhupāda: No, everyone should work. Our Vedic philosophy is that everyone must work. But there must be division of work. Just like in your body there are different parts. The head department, the arms department, the belly department, and the legs department. These are different parts. So all these departments must work for the total benefit of the body. That is our philosophy. Nobody should sit idle. But he must work according to his capacity. Brain must work for giving direction. Hand must work for giving protection. Belly must work for supplying food, energy. And leg must work for carrying the body. So similarly the society must be divided: the brain of the society, the arms of the society, the belly of the society and the legs of the society. That will make perfection. The brain will give direction That is the brāhmaṇas. The arms will give protection. That is the kṣatriya. And the belly will give energy, food, that is vaiśya. And the legs will carry the body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are good, but mostly, as you were telling me that, that Pope is disgusted... Yes. Nobody cares for the Bible or the Pope. That is everywhere, not only Christian. Actually there is no religion at the present moment. All animals. We don't blame only the Christians. The Hindus, Muslim, everyone. They have lost all religion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually Prabhupāda, I read in the Time Magazine that Indira Gandhi, she said to one reporter her birth control program has not become successful because in Kerala there are a lot of Catholics who are opposing this kind of process. In other words the Hindus are approving of it but the Catholics are rejecting it, it looks like, to some extent. She says that because the Catholics in Kerala, they are opposing the birth control program so she has got trouble like that. She is completely atheistic.
Prabhupāda: Unless she become atheist how you can stay in that post? She must be atheist. Or she may not be atheist, but for political reasons she must become atheist. Otherwise she cannot maintain her post. All these politicians, they are simply duplicity. Actually they are something else, but in political post they must show themselves as something else. This is politics.
Prabhupāda: That is your concoction. We get so many literatures. Huh? The Bhāgavata literature, five thousand years old. You have no history beyond three thousand years. Neither even at the present moment you have got such nice literature. When you say that people are very much advanced, who has produced such literature? Where is a book like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whole world? If you say that this book was written, say 1,500 years ago, but where is a similar literature in any other part of the world? Eh? Is there a similar literature? Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...
Satsvarūpa: When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used to, against this so-called scientific theory. But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.
Prabhupāda: Yeah, Bible cannot be because it is itself unscientific.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) The people have so much opposed them now, the present government, I think there will be right government next election. The election itself is a sort of great, I mean, mockery committed on the people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That I always said.
Dr. Patel: It's a demagogy.
Prabhupāda: Then... (Hindi) The votes given by some...
Dr. Patel: Ignorant people.
Prabhupāda: ...ignorant people. What is the value?
Dr. Patel: You see, if you go in the assembly...
Prabhupāda: Formerly a king was elected by great sages, saintly persons, brāhmaṇas. King was elected. And as soon as he deviated from the śāstric principles, he was kicked out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is a poetry, Cowper: "England, with all thy faults, I love you."
Dr. Patel: No. They may not be liking me because sometimes I am very much opposing them, but...
Prabhupāda: That is also loving.
Dr. Patel: But I tell you that this institution should be allowed to flourish so that your culture will spread the world over. Today, today the world is actually languishing under the wrong influence of the wrong culture.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Now Americans are seriously considering about this movement. There are so many writings.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.
Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.
Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.
Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)
Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...
Dr. Patel: Absolutely. It was a miracle, the greatest miracle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was... From very beginning of his birth, he is Englishman.
Prabhupāda: Anyone can understand. Any foolish man can understand, "Here is a blind man; here is a man with eyes." It is not very difficult. Why do you question this? One cannot see, that is blind man. Everyone knows it.
Yaśomatīnandana: Their interpretation is just opposing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am..."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Indian Man (1): They have no opposition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the main point. That is the main point, Kaṁsa, to kill Kṛṣṇa. "Let Kṛṣṇa come out and I shall kill Him immediately." The Kaṁsa philosophy. All these rascals, they don't give any importance to Kṛṣṇa. All this interpretation.
Bhagavān: There is another big problem that now all the opposing countries have built up excess amounts of atomic weapons all pointed at each other. So now they are trying to have big planning conference how to diminish all these weapons.
Prabhupāda: If there is no opposite elements, there is no need of weapons. If I am not your enemy, there is no fear. We are preaching this philosophy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā: (BG 18.54) "As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you become jubilant." So where is your enemy? Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then where is your enemy? Formerly, a man might have become enemy of another man. But this demonic civilization has created nation to nation, country to country, community to community, all enemies. And on account of this communistic enemy, so many innocent people are killed. I have seen in Calcutta during the partition days. So many innocent Hindus and Muslims were killed. Any (indistinct), very quickly this Communistic feeling is aroused, and they fight, like cats and dogs. "Oh, here is another dog! Here is another dog, coming from another neighborhood." So this is demonic civilization. If you want to go to some country, you have to take visa, permission, this, that, so many. Why? Vedic civilization is "You come to my country. Welcome. You are my guest." Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akutobhayam: "Even one is enemy, when he comes to my house, he is my honorable guest." And here, they are so much afraid that you keep dogs. The dog is kept here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to do. There may be opposition, but what can be done? We have to speak the resu..., that "There cannot be equality sir. You are talking nonsense." Challenge them, and let them prove that "Here is equality." Where is equality? Where is equality? You are human being. You are trying to live very comfortably. Why don't you make comfortable life for other living entities? Why you are sending them to the slaughterhouse? Where is equality?
Haihaya: If we have a world day every month, fasting world day. If we can fast, all the world can fast, all inhabitants of the world...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you cannot expect that the whole world will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is not possible. You keep your standard. Don't be bewildered by these rascals. That is our proposal. We should not be misled by this rascal philosophy. We shall stick to our own philosophy. That is required. Because we know all their philosophy are defective. That is not perfect. So why shall I be misled by their philosophy? We shall stick to our own principle, Kṛṣṇa philosophy. That's all. Everyone should stick to the right philosophy. That is human sense. Not be biased and carried away by some whimsical way.
Yogeśvara: What interests them is the underlying nature of our spiritual practice as opposed to theirs. For example, for them spiritual life is the prayer, salvation in Lord Jesus Christ. And they're not quite sure... They're interested in knowing what is our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Is it the same or...
Prabhupāda: We are also thinking of Kṛṣṇa always. Eh? Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). We are chanting, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa..." We are always remembering Kṛṣṇa. So the real process is... Either you think of Kṛṣṇa or son of Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter, but you should always think of Him. That is the requisition. That is recommended. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, Ninth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: But because he has no eyes, he cannot see. Therefore he has to hear. He has to hear. (French)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: How can one discriminate what is a real authority and who is a blind person posing as an authority?
Yogeśvara: How can we tell a real authority?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: As opposed to someone who is posing as an authority?
Prabhupāda: This authority means just like you follow somebody. You are going to somewhere by aeroplane. You do not know. But others are purchasing ticket and going there, so you have to follow them. That's all. So the authority is if he does not know... Therefore we are giving the chance, the association of the devotee. The devotee, they are practicing something for going back to home, back to Godhead, so you have to mix with the devotees and then gradually understand.
Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.
Nitāi: "Because material energy, nature, is so powerful, it can resist the unauthorized plans of the atheists and baffle the knowledge of the planning commissions. The atheistic planmakers are described herein by the word duṣkṛtina, or miscreant. Kṛtina means one who has performed meritorious work. The atheistic planmaker is sometimes very intelligent and meritorious also because any gigantic plan, good or bad, must take intelligence to execute. But because the atheist brain is improperly utilized in opposing the plan of the Supreme Lord, the atheistic planmaker is called duṣkṛtina, which indicates that his intelligence and efforts are misdirected. In the Gītā it is clearly mentioned that material energy works fully under the direction..."
Prabhupāda: Just like in Paris, these nice buildings, nice parks, nice everything—they require brain. There is no doubt about it. But they have been used for woman and wine. That's all. That is their... He have come. People come to see Paris just for that... What is that theater?
Bhagavān: Folies Bergere.
Prabhupāda: Yes, translate. (German) This is the basic principle of knowledge, that "I am not this body. I am the active principle within this body." Then further knowledge can be understood. This is the beginning of knowledge, that "I am not this..." At the present moment everything... That I was explaining to the professor, that we are accepting this body as self, and self-interest means this bodily interest. Explain this. (German) So the whole trouble is on the platform of this misconception that "I am this body." Therefore Kṛṣṇa begins from this platform what is knowledge. First of all one must know that "I am not this body." When he understands this basic principle of knowledge, then further knowledge can be advanced. That is explained very nicely step by step in this book Bhagavad-gītā.
Professor Durckheim: May I ask a question? If you give us this wisdom, don't you meet now in the western world an opposition from the Christian side where the key word that this faith becomes a body, this faith becomes flesh.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We accept it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reverend Powell: As opposed to material. And...
Prabhupāda: So they are always engaged in transcendental devotional service.
Reverend Powell: Always.
Prabhupāda: Always. Then they'll be freed from birth, death, old age and disease.
Reverend Powell: And... Were the papers correct in reporting you as... Well, they reported opposite things that... But you, of course, hold to transmigration, I gather. And this is... Death really doesn't happen. It's a change of form. Is that it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as the..., everyone dies, so a devotee, after death, in his transcendental form, he goes, back to home, back to Godhead.
Prajāpati: The material research is taking, finding certain forms, certain sentence construction, grammar, and comparing it with other passages in the scriptures as opposed to that grammar, to see if the form is the same, to see, to determine by different criteria which came first, which is earlier.
Acyutānanda: So after...
Prabhupāda: No, their...
Acyutānanda: Since St. Paul did they find out...
Prabhupāda: That is academic. That is not theology.
Gaṇeśa: Also Paundraka.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa cut his head immediately. Let this Guru Mahārāja cut the heads of the opposition, that "You do not accept me God, I cut your head." Let him cut the head of his brother or mother.
Paramahaṁsa: (laughing) He may do that.
Prabhupāda: Then we can understand he is God. Why does he go to the mercy of court? And the court has detained him. What kind of God...? So can you get charcoal?
Amogha: Charcoal, yes
Prabhupāda: Yes, get it.
Amogha: That's what we are trying to do. In a few years we will find out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They might have gone to some hellish planet, where there is only sand, only, and very hot, and the culprit is pushed through that deserted place to the Yamarāja. And before going to Yamarāja he has to suffer so much. There are places, copperlike, you see. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So hot, and the criminal has to go on that copper land. There are mentioned for many millions of miles simply copper, and one has to pass through that to Yamarāja. So, they might have gone to some such place, not to the moon planet, who is the source of vegetation even throughout the whole universe—and in his own planet there is no vegetation. Now I am sure they have not gone to moon planet. How they will go? It is beyond the sun. I was protesting that they have not gone; now I am convinced that they have not gone. The Russian scientists and the American scientists joined on the platform, "Don't expose me, I don't expose you." (laughter) (Bengali) "You have to do your business and same I have to do my business. Let us support one another." In all other case, they are inimical, and the scientific field they are friends. That means that if a scientist, another scientist, opposes me, then my attempt will be futile, so let us don't do it.
Prabhupāda: Demons, those who are not devotees. Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daiva āsuras tad-viparyayaḥ. Those who are opposing these Vaiṣṇavas, they are asuras.
Madhudviṣa: But how is it that a demon is worshiping the Lord? It says in the Bhāgavatam, he just read, that the demons are also worshiping the Lord in His personal abode.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When the demon is promoted to the Vaikuṇṭha, they also become. Just like you are all now Vaiṣṇava. (laughter) Why don't you compare with yourself? The others are seeing, "What these mlecchas, yavanas, how they can become Vaiṣṇava?" They are seeing like that. Therefore they object. The Vṛndāvana, "How these Europeans can worship Deity?" They are protesting.
Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with that. I certainly don't.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we want to do: one God, one state, one scripture, and one activity. That is the ultimate end of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like we are from different countries. We don't think as nationalism, that "I am American," "I am Indian." No. We all think that "We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa." And they are working in that spirit. It is possible. If this idea is accepted in that United Nation, it can be done. But they will not accept. They are going go be united, but everyone is thinking, "First of all my interest." All cheating. They are outwardly, "Now we have come to the United Nation," but no one is going to be united. Everyone is thinking, "It is my first interest first. I must give veto if he's opposing." This is going on. Therefore for the last twenty years or more than that, they are trying to be united, but it is becoming disunited. The flags are increasing. In New York they have got their headquarters. When I pass through, I see that another flag has increased.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. He must be at the same time... Although he is hero, he must be generous. Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story. He arrested one thief. So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander, the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me? You are a great thief. I am a small thief." (laughter) So Alexander understood it and got him released, "Yes." (laughter) This is generosity. He must agree to the principle.
Guest 1: Well, there's another one, the battle. You know the big battle where the opposition, what was his name, was on the ground, and he said, "You won't..."
Guest 3: ...won't live.
Guest 1: It's an Indian.
Madhudviṣa: We brought back Wally one picture from India on the battle of Kurukṣetra of Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu's head was there, and Karṇa was on the ground with his chariot, and Arjuna was about to kill him, and Kṛṣṇa was directing him to kill. So I told Wally the story that when Abhimanyu was surrounded by the mahārathīs, there was no mercy then, so now Karṇa was objecting that...
Prabhupāda: Injustice.
Prabhupāda: It is not idea, it is fact that one man is very pious and one man is very vicious. What is the difference? The difference is: one is dirty in his heart and one is pure in his heart. So if you keep people dirty, then there will be crimes. This is the sign that the general people, they are dirty. So you have to purify the dirty things, diseased condition. Then things will be all right. So our simplest process is to assemble in congregation and chant the holy name of God. Then dirty things will go away. So if you want to stop crime, then you have to arrange for mass saṅkīrtana. That is our movement. Gather people as large as can be possible and congregationally chant the holy name of God. Then it will be all right.
Lt. Mozee: Do you have any feeling about the crime here in the United States as opposed to the crime in your own land?
Prabhupāda: Crime, what is your definition of crime?
Lt. Mozee: Any infraction against one person by another person. Any trampling on the rights of one person by another person can be a crime or should be a crime.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Our definition is the same in the Upaniṣad, that everything belongs to God. As you think everything belongs to the state, we think everything belongs to God. So you can utilize your possession, what is allotted to you. Don't encroach upon others. So people are not thinking in that way. First beginning is that you Americans, you are thinking this America land is your, although two hundred years ago it was not your. You have come from other parts of the world. Now you are claiming it is your land. But actually it is God's land. So God's land belongs to everyone. Everyone is God's children. That is our broad conception. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." So people have no conception of God. Everyone is practically godless. Therefore they should be educated about God. Just like the Communists. They are educating godlessness.
Lt. Mozee: Um hm. Well, those who believe in our country in Christianity believe these things. I don't see the vast differences between the spiritual belief of one religious group as opposed to another.
Prabhupāda: We don't say that. We don't say that. We say that you follow any religious system. Doesn't matter. But you understand God and love Him. That is our propaganda. We do not say that "You are Christian. This is not good. You come here." We do not say. Why say? Everything is... But our proposition is that either you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him, that's all.
Prabhupāda: What are the formalities?
Śrī Govinda: There's been some delay in the approval on the building due to different building violations and we have to receive approval from the zoning board of appeals, then the city council. And it's a matter of time. But also there has been some opposition in the city council, and...
Prabhupāda: So what can I do? What is the difficulty? What do you want from us?
City Counselor: Really nothing. The only problem is that there are certain rules and regulations that all the citizens of Evanston must comply with. And that's all that has been asked to be done. Originally, as I expressed, there were some... This property, the temple, is located in an area which is zoned for business. And there were some originally who wished to maintain that...
Prabhupāda: But there are so many churches...
City Counselor: Yes, there are many churches, yes. And I think...
Prabhupāda: So what is the fault if there is a temple?
City Counselor: Well, I think the... Originally, again I say, some of the no..., not I, but some had some objections to any church, any temple...
Prabhupāda: But already there are churches. I have seen so many churches surrounding our temple.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing.
City Counselor: Again, I think the problem now will be complying with the building laws in order to get the temple in safe condition. That's the only problem now. I don't think that there is opposition to the temple per se.
Prabhupāda: Then it is... It comes to the conclusion of suppression, that "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." "You are not properly dressed; therefore you should stop it." It is like that.
Jayatīrtha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you comment on opposition to the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in this country?
Prabhupāda: No, why they should oppose? What is the reason? If they are Christian or Jewish, religious men, so we are advocating, "You chant the holy name of God," so why there should be objection? Is there any reason for such objection? What is the objection?
Reporter (1): Some of the objections are that the followers of the Hare Kṛṣṇa sect are, on the streets or in the airports, are bothering people.
Prabhupāda: The airport itself is a botheration, so much sound, so much accident. So why this little botheration they cannot tolerate? That means intolerance. It is full of botheration, and because we are chanting, they very much disturbed? We don't chant in the airport, but we ask people that "Here is a very good book. You will benefit. If you like, you can take." So what is the wrong there? Tell me what is the wrong? If I give you something very nice, is that, I mean to say, wrong? You read any book. We have got fifty books. You find out any fault in that. If we are distributing something, bad literature which is against the social welfare, then you can object. But you see. Bring all our books here, and you will see. Any page you open and you will find something good.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, their proposition is "Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, but not in this temple." "Don't go to the temple." That is their proposition.
Dr. Patel: They have theorized that just to oppose Islam. I don't think they meant much about it.
Prabhupāda: What they have done? Simply hallucination.
Dr. Patel: They believe more in the Vedic scriptures and Vedic injunctions than other things.
Prabhupāda: And all the ācāryas, they are fools.
Cyavana: This is the way to go up.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...this is a fact, that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yoga, and preach it. This is a fact. Except we, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, nobody knows anything—all mūḍhas. Any association, any religion—all mūḍhas. But you must prove yourself. Otherwise it will be bigotry. If you simply say that "We are only first class" without any knowledge... You have to defend yourself. There will be so many opposing elements. Then you become first class. Your position is first class, but you have to maintain it. Otherwise, they will say "religious fanatics." Any opposition party, you have to meet. That is required.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty, that, wholesale people have been miseducated. That is our protest. And this miseducated is ruling the whole world, all rascals (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...cheated in some business transaction, they become very mad, angry, so much so sometimes they want to kill the opposing party. But when they are cheated in this way they don't mind so much, because their sense gratification, either way, is there. So only people who are serious about understanding the truth will accept these things.
Prabhupāda: We therefore submit our statement as it is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot say that we are cheating, because we are presenting something authorized, which is accepted. That's all. So we are not cheater. You may accept or not accept; that is your business. But we are presenting something standard. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Ferocious.
Cyavana: Oh yes, very.
Brahmānanda: And it just happened recently, one political opposition leader, he was brought to some place near Nairobi and he was... His genitals were cut off, his eyes were...
Prabhupāda: Plucked out.
Prabhupāda: This is the reply. All the so-called scientists, their only point is how to deny the existence of God.
Dr. Patel: But how can you say, "All the scientists," sir? I strongly oppose this statement.
Giriraj: I have spoken to many...
Dr. Patel: I mean, all scientists
Prabhupāda: Majority.
Aksayānanda: Your lectures only.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That's all right. One must be confident before challenging others. Not that theoretical. Challenge is no good. In all stages he must be able to defend himself from the opposing elements. Then such challenge is all right. (break) We are confident that this soul cannot be manufactured by any material combination. Therefore we can challenge. And I can defend ourself in any stage. (break) Cānā, cānā?
Aksayānanda: Channā?
Prabhupāda: Not cchana but cānā. Cānaka dāhl?
Aksayānanda: Oh, cānā dāhl, yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cānā dāhl is good nowadays.
Aksayānanda: Chick pea dahl for winter.
Prabhupāda: Mixed with little uraḍ dāhl, then it will be very palatable and very beneficial.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they did not put any questions.
Dr. Patel: Yes. It is very difficult to put question to you. (Prabhupāda laughs) You mow the opposition down very badly. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: It is all Kṛṣṇa's...
Dr. Patel: I am a shameless man to give questions... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: How long did I speak?
Harikesa: Hm, about forty-five minutes.
Prabhupāda: That is my standard.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is another thing. This proposal, that because Lord Rāmacandra approached Lord Śiva to kill Rāvaṇa, and he gave permission, although Rāvaṇa was his great devotee. Then what is the use of becoming devotee of Lord Śiva? He gives permission. Huh? Is that very reasonable proposal? If I ask your permission that I shall kill your son, will you give permission? No. Then? So Lord Śiva gives permission to Lord Rāmacandra, "Yes, You can kill Rāvaṇa," then what is the use of becoming his devotee?
Harikeśa: I think Dr. Patel would say that it's not fair, you have fired the opposition.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: It's not fair. You have completely destroyed the opposition. (Prabhupāda laughs) There is no question of fight.
Prabhupāda: The actual fact is that Lord Śiva did not give permission, but he did not go to protect Rāvaṇa, because he knew that it was impossible to give him protection. That is summarized in Bengali, rākhe kṛṣṇa māre ke, māre kṛṣṇa rākhe ke. If Kṛṣṇa kills somebody, wants to kill somebody, nobody can give him protection. That is the conclusion. And if Kṛṣṇa protects somebody, nobody can kill him. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Huh? He was protected by Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva. Who can kill?
Harikeśa: Completely smashed all the opposition. No more arguments.
Prabhupāda: So you have to do this, to fight all these rascals.
Harikeśa: 'Cause all philosophy is based on the proposition that "I am this body."
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Harikeśa: Or "I am this..."
Prabhupāda: Then he remains the same animal, cats and dogs. There is no advancement. Therefore you see despite so many rascal philosophers in the Western countries, they simply fight and bomb and cheat and politics, diplomacy. The same—on the surface of the coconut, not inside. So you have to prove that "All of you are rascals. You do not know where to get pleasure." They're missing that point. All rascals, they're putting new philosophy, thesis. So what is the value of that thesis? He does not know. It requires expert. Just like somebody has told: "In this land, there is gold." So somebody's digging here, somebody's digging there, somebody's digging there. And they are, do not find gold, and struggling. But one expert, what is called, soil expert?
Harikeśa: Geologist.
Prabhupāda: So write.
Harikeśa: You so completely destroy the opposition, it's very hard to say anything more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you have to prove. You can eulogize your Guru Mahārāja, but you have to learn it and face the public and be strong to defend yourself. That is success. Not by praising your Guru Mahārāja. You'll praise your Guru Mahārāja. That is not very difficult. But be victorious to the opposing elements. Then you will praise your Guru Mahārāja nicely. At home, you can praise your Guru Mahārāja, and Guru Mahārāja be satisfied, "Oh, my disciples are praising me." That is not very.... That is good. Respectful. That is the qualification. But you have to fight. Then your Guru Mahārāja will be glorified.
Prabhupāda: All rascals.
Dayānanda: There's also a scientific argument against that, that there may have been the life conditions or the conditions conducive to life, so therefore life came, but not that that was produced by chemical combination. Just like they're actually opposing that argument, scientific school that opposes the idea that they actually produced the life itself.
Cyavana: Some of them said the life was already there in the water to begin with.
Prabhupāda: In the water, life there is; in the air, in.... That is another thing. But life is different from the water. That is our proposal. (break) They are attracted by these varieties of material things, and when time comes he's put into death. Everything is moved from his sight, aside, and he accepts a body of a dog. (break) To accept by compulsion a type of body according to his activities, that he does not.... Now, that big, big minister, Pandit Jawaharlal, he spent so much time and energy for creating this. Now, if after death he has become a dog, then where is the benefit? You cannot say that he has not become a dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept another body, and what kind of body one has to accept, who will say? The.... His work, what he has done, that will take.
Prabhupāda: No, not like that. That is not that. But in the Western countries nobody comes forward to give us some contribution. But this boy is very nice, he gives us sometimes some thing. He gives, and another boy, who is the great-grandson of Mr. Henry Ford—his name is Alfred—he also helps us. But mostly we get our income by selling these books. We are selling books daily about $200,000 daily. That is our main source of income. And I have made a trust will in which fifty percent of the collection is spent for reprinting the books, and fifty percent is spent for spreading this movement.
Interviewer: One thing, New Zealand cities are passing bylaws which seek to ban the chanting of your disciples in the streets. Do you get much opposition like this?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but we don't depend on the city authorities; we depend on Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Māyā's harassing, that means you are not in devotional service. It is not concoction; it is fact.
Devotee (1): (indistinct) We're having a lot of trouble distributing books in the airports now.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What is the difficulty?
Devotee (1): It just seems legal problems. People don't like us there.
Mādhavānanda: People are opposing more. As our movement grows more and more, people want to check.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): ...trying to get it open in the terminals, and there's a possibility of maybe getting forty devotees inside the airport to distribute your books.
Prabhupāda: So, that is favorable.
Prabhupāda: So this is his world of duality. You cannot have all support on your side. It isn't...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we always expect opposition.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We must be ready for...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) just like we're opposing their theory. They are not absolute.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science, science also, Prabhupāda, changing the subject level, science also comes to the conclusion that the stars and this universe have..., they die out and then they produce new ones, just like life cycle of the living body. So...
Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate.
Prabhupāda: Antagonistic?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Opposed.
Prabhupāda: That is not the remedy, because afterwards he give up and become a sannyāsī, and then again become this gṛhastha. This is not good. Opposition is already there, especially in the Western countries; they will never agree. So why do you marry? That is understood. Huh? Both the boys and girls trained in such a way that there must be opposition. So that is expected, that in your married life there will be opposition. So why do you marry?
Hari-śauri: He's talking about if you're married before you come to the movement and one person wants to join the movement and the other person is not very agreeable.
Prabhupāda: No. Any... It is not because there is opposition, therefore I give up family life. Unless one is mature, there is no need of artificially giving up family life. The best thing is if one can remain without marriage. That is very good. No botheration.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't speak about myself, but that is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra syāt (SB 11.2.42). If you advance in bhakti, in spiritual life, then you become disinterested in material life.
Interviewer: Do you think there's a difference between the various peoples of the world? In other words, do you think that Indians as opposed to Europeans have more of a tendency or are more likely to adhere to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: No, any intelligent man can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That I have already explained, that unless one is very intelligent, he cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it is open for everyone. But there are different grades of intelligence. In Europe, America, they are intelligent, but their intelligence is utilized for material purposes. And in India their intelligence is utilized for spiritual purpose. Therefore you find so many highly spiritual standard of life, books, literature. Just like Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva was also in householder life, but he was living in the forest, and see his contribution of literature. Nobody can dream even. So by literary contribution, one's intelligence is tested. All big, big men of the material world, scientists, philosophers, even technicians, they are recognized by their writings, by their contribution, not by their gigantic body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu goes with His associates, He does not go alone. Sa-pārṣadam. Sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam.
There is saṅkīrtana-yajña, everything will improve very gradually. (break) Now the government has not given any opposition. That is very good. In India, our own government is giving little opposition.
Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to date. We have already got.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the first study of Kṛṣṇa. ABCD. When we learn Bhagavad-gītā, then we can have some glimpse of idea of Kṛṣṇa. Then we go further in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Translator: He also admires very much that you have created disciples who are able to be very courageous in presenting your message. And that even though sometimes at first he was opposed to them, they were very peaceful always and always very nice to him, and this way they brought him slowly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: That is preaching method. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended, tṛṇād api sunīcena. You can explain that:
Prabhupāda: Ah, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). So where is rājarṣi? That is the difficulty. Where is that brāhmaṇa, where is that kṣatriya, where is that system? Now anyone can capture the political power by hook and crook, that is another thing. But it is meant for the rājarṣi, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Where is their training? The politician, where he is trained up as ṛṣi? There is no such service.
Interviewer (4): Has there been any official opposition to your movement in any country?
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Interviewer (3): Your movement is spreading largely. Do you think that it will be welcome in the Communist countries?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have been in Moscow. I saw many learned professors. We are selling our books there.
Prabhupāda: What about our Godbrothers? They are also opposing?
Jayapatākā: Subhaga made a very... Bhavānanda sent him over to invite Śrīdhara Swami for Janmāṣṭamī, as a show of respect. When he went there... he's not so clever boy. So Śrīdhara Swami asked him, "Oh, what about your land acquisition?" What does he know about land acquisition? We never discussed anything with him. He can only know by hearsay. So then Subhaga said, "Oh, it's in the hands of the Chief Minister," for which I reprimanded at all. Why you have given any information?" But they are very interested in these things, and maybe they are still trying to stop it, but I don't think they have the power.
Prabhupāda: They have no power.
Prabhupāda: All over the world they're accepting. Now these foreigners, they're accepting. I have done it single-handed. So if the government comes forward and join with me, we can do at least ten times work.
Commissioner: How, kindly give us sir... I don't know if I'm taking your very valuable time. We are very sincere about it. We are having Himalayan opposition for some of our schemes. But when I studied yesterday, because before I came to you I thought I shouldn't just come for wasting your valuable time. Therefore I have found that your aims are what we have been thinking of for the society. The veda-pracāra, we were thinking that we have also started on a small scale, not on your scale. And if it is that we were thinking in these terms-translation of these Vedas...
Prabhupāda: First of all, first of all, you must know what is Veda. Vedas, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedic knowledge means to understand Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself, to understand Him. That is Bhagavad-gītā. So if you accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, the whole Vedas are accepted. Because purpose of Veda is to understand Kṛṣṇa. And that Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself—"I'm like this." So where is the difficulty to understand Vedas?
Devotee: I was trying, that if I began to oppose him then he would not take the book.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Scholarly. Just present that here is the... Śukadeva Gosvāmī is the speaker of Bhāgavatam. He says "I learned it from my father." And who is his father? Bopadeva or Vyāsadeva? This is going on. That is finished. (indistinct)
Mahāṁsa: Yes. Only two of them. One of them is here but he was not at home and the other one is out of station. So we'll get their signature when they come.
Prabhupāda: Two of them have signed.
Prabhupāda: Very good.
Krishna Modi: Ten or fifteen people so that they may go and see and all these things and then they can also, if any question comes in the House then they can oppose like anything. And they should submit their report also to the Prime Minister, Home Minister, to everybody and to House also. And this thing has been done and we must be proud about that, that some...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And to start out they can come to Vṛndāvana which is right nearby. We can take them in a bus. We have a beautiful center in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes, fifty thousand people come every year.
Prabhupāda: And this time, New York, the government, the police, they appreciated that this kind of dancing, it is not artificial. So here is life. They appreciated. What the American boys have got to dance for Kṛṣṇa unless it is from the heart? They are not dancing dogs that I have trained them and they are dancing. So there are so many things to be done in India but I am, without getting any cooperation, I am getting opposition.
Krishna Modi: Quite. Now let us, we must be active. We must be active.
Prabhupāda: It will be good for the country, for the whole nation.
Interviewer: Are you getting any opposition from the church?
Prabhupāda: No. That is very favorable. No. Otherwise, it was impossible. At least in America they have never prevented me. But in Europe especially in England and Germany, they, the Christian group, they are little angry with me. But so far America, they are very liberal. They never put any impediments in my movement. Rather, government appreciates. The appreciated one point, that the American younger generation, they have become addicted to this LSD, intoxication, and they have spent millions of dollars to stop this, but they could not. But they are surprised that as soon as this LSD man becomes my disciple, he gives up immediately.
Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition we have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let them give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying, not directly. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is knowledge. If people kindly take it everything will be solved. But they have stubbornly denied, "No God." And I am stubbornly fighting, "Yes, there is God." That is the... Now the whole America is combining to fight against me, opposition, that "This man is brainwashing, controlling the mind, and our children are kidnapped." They are bringing these charges against us. Just like you have come. Have I kidnapped you?
Dr. Kneupper: Oh, no.
Prabhupāda: But these rascals say that I have kidnapped their children.
Indian man (2): But judgment has been taken.
Prabhupāda: There must be judgment, but people have become so rascal. So I am trying to convince, although single-handed, that "There is God," and they are bringing opposition.
Indian man (2): That is the real philosophy. That is not only Indian philosophy; this is universal philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is for everyone.
Prabhupāda: Solution. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etām... And that we are preaching, that "You become God conscious. Everything will be solved." And who is caring for us? Rather, they are giving opposition, that "These rascals are kidnapping our sons, brainwashing, controlling the mind," creating courts case. Just see. This is going on.
Dr. Kneupper: Do you see as a... When you're describing that if the world were going to be God conscious, it would...
Prabhupāda: Everything will be solved.
Dr. Kneupper: But you were describing the caste system or the...
Prabhupāda: This is not caste system. It is natural. There is always an intelligent class of men in the society. So they should be, what is called, listed. They should be trained up properly.
Prabhupāda: Well, that we are doing, but this is the opposition. That our boys are trained up. They are trying to meet the opposition. But my point is that such a nice thing we are giving. Why they should oppose? That means uncivilized. Why good thing should be opposed? They say, "In God We Trust," and we are speaking of God only. We have no other business, and they are opposing. And they write, "In God We Trust." Hypocrisy. "If we believe in God, we trust in God, all right, they are talking of God. Let us hear." That is sense. That Patrick? Patrick? He kidnaps our devotees.
Prabhupāda: Mā prekṣiṣṭhāstava yadi sakhe bandhu-saṅge 'sti raṅgaḥ. If you want to enjoy the company of your society, friendship, and love, then don't see. It will be finished. For this reason they are now bringing charges against us that we are spoiling these young men by brainwash. There is great opposition in the United States to our movement that we are spoiling these young men by giving some speculation, controlling over their mind, and simply injecting some ideas in their brain, brainwash.
Prabhupāda: No, in America. We have got farms like this. They are very successful. They are eating fresh vegetables, fresh grains and milk, and chanting. The temple is there. They have left the city life. So I want to organize that here also. We have already one in Navadvīpa. The devotees are there. They are having their own cloth, own food, own milk, residence, and chanting. That's all.
Guest (3): Total membership for around the world?
Prabhupāda: Total membership is practically unlimited because we are now getting opposition, so... But actually dedicated life, about ten thousand like these boys.
Guest (5): What's going to be the name of this āśrama?
Prabhupāda: It is already told. It is ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Subash Bose was always against this nonviolent means. That is the difference of opinion with Gandhi. So he wanted to capture the whole power, and he captured, but Gandhi became so angry upon him that he did not attend the Congress when Subash Bose was elected President. Then other lieutenants-Subash Bose also was Gandhi's student—so when others planned, requested that "Gandhiji is not happy. You better resign." So he resigned, and tactfully he went out of India. He knew that "So long Gandhi is there, my policy... I'll not be able because there will be..."
Guest (1): Always opposition.
Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.
Prabhupāda: Then let them come first of all. (laughter) There is no "if." There is sufficient place. Come. But nobody's coming. They want to see, "Let these white men come and we see." That's all. "We see the fun." This is going on. They are coming. They are disgusted. But we are not disgusted. That is the difficulty. Therefore I was speaking to this boy, "You are Englishman, you have come." It's a problem now in Māyāpur, here. And the government is after them as soon as three months pass. "Get out, get out, get out, get out." Then how shall I conduct my business? A big, big establishment. This is another problem. But Kṛṣṇa is doing His own business. But practically seeing. This is India's business. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Manuṣya-janma, not the cats and dogs, but those who have taken the human form. It is their business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41), janma sārthaka-First of all, make your life successful by understanding the philosophy. Then, janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra, preach this philosophy all over the world. That is para-upakāra. So actually that is being done. They understand, they are understanding this philosophy. There is struggle now in foreign countries. There is opposition now. Who will explain what is the opposition?
Girirāja: Today we just got a new package from New York from this boy. And some of the parents were charging that we were kidnapping and mentally imprisoning their children by making them devotees. Because from their point of view their children were lost to our movement. So...
Prabhupāda: He's a lost child. His father and mother came to me and mother was crying. I said, "So take your son." And the son will not go. (laughter)
Hari-śauri: In England also they have a woman Prime Minister for the first time.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: She's a leader of the opposition.
Hari-śauri: No, she was the Prime Minister as well. She's the opposition now.
Prabhupāda: Woman is acting as police in England.
Guest (1): Do you mean it that a man who is under so much tension can...
Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, try to see the distinction. Before me, so many people went. They misinterpreted Bhagavad-gītā, there was no effect. And we are not misinterpreting. We are simply presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is given. That is the point. Everyone says, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful thing." But I say , "I do not know any magic, jugglery. But wonderful thing is that I have not adulterated." That is wonderful. Otherwise, nothing wonderful. What I am saying? Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. I am creating them bhaktas, that's all. I am starting these temples and ask them that "Here is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. You become devotee, you always chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That's all. And they are giving up everything. Their father and mother, they are thinking, "They are our lost child." They are now giving the opposition. They have brought so many cases against me. But unless it is effective, how they are feeling the weight? Now these boys, their father, mother constantly kidnap them. "Stay here." No, they will not stay. They'll not eat with their father, mother. So they think that "Our son is lost." Other yogis and swamis go, they give some method. And the son is there at home."All right, a young man is going there." But here, their son is lost. Here their son is lost, and they are now called "American Hindus." So naturally they are very much against me.
Prabhupāda: Most important movement. (Hindi) You are in a good position. Try to convince others. Life should be for para-upakāra. Not exploiting. This is India's mission. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says,
This is India's... Anyone who has taken birth in India, first of all make his life perfect by understanding the śāstra. The gist of śāstra is Bhagavad-gītā. And then distribute the knowledge. Para-upakāra. This should be India's mission. India hasn't got to learn from anywhere else. Everything is there. Let him understand the whole philosophy of life perfectly and distribute this. This is India's mission. So I have tried alone on this point. So I have got little success. And before me so many swamis, yogis went there. They came and go. No effect. Now I have created a community which will continue. They're now saying, "American Hindus." Therefore there is opposition. They understand, "Now it will stand." It is not that Vivekananda's daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā.
Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?
CID Chief: (laughs) I am a layman. What...?
Prabhupāda: No... You should be very kind upon... And what we can do? And if I cheat in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, then I become a great leader.
Prabhupāda: So at least Indians should join this movement. They're feeling the weight, the Western countries. They are opposing means that those who are thoughtful, they are thinking that "If this movement allowed to go on, then our civilization will be finished." That is their... That... They are right. They are right. If these young men, they go on under my instruction, I shall finish their civilization. That's a fact. No meat-eating in Western countries? (chuckling) No intoxication? No illicit sex? No gambling? That means their life is finished. And we are imitating, that "We are becoming advanced in civilization." And we are condemning.
Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all.
Prabhupāda: Where is that Hindi typewriter?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I never saw that typewriter.
Prabhupāda: Ask Yaśodānandana, Yaśomatī-nandana, immediately. You ask him for my brāhmaṇa... Yes. So very steadily do everything. Opposition will come. We have to face.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'll arrange for your idlis, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Idlis and if dosa... Dosa?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's two types of dosas. One is masalā; one is sada. Masalā has got potatoes inside.
Prabhupāda: Potatoes?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, inside. What they do is... Inside it's like...
Prabhupāda: Which one is better?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sada is without.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Prabhupāda: No, you can study. It is going on throughout the whole world. Now the Western world, they're feeling the strength. They have now begun opposition. Their politicians are thinking that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is spreading like epidemic." Actually it is so. "And if it is spread so quickly, within ten years they'll take our government." They say like that. And that is possible because these young men, they have taken seriously and they're pushing on. If the majority is after them, they can take over. It is democratic, America. And how they are after this movement... If you see our latest picture of Ratha-yātrā... You have seen that film? Ratha-yātrā?
D. D. Desai: Yes. So many thousands of...
Prabhupāda: Fifth Avenue.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. No, you can open the fan, one point. This is the real culture, original culture of India, and they are accepting it. Why not government come to my help? Without any help I am doing so much.
D. D. Desai: This is exceptionally, I would say, very creditable. When you say...
Prabhupāda: We are increasing. There is opposition against our movement, and still, we are increasing.
D. D. Desai: When you say, "We are poor..."
Prabhupāda: No, no, so-called poor.
D. D. Desai: That's it. Because the other day when I was reading Howard Hughes and his billion-dollar life, and then also Poli(?), I can say this much, that some of our poorest of Indians are far better off than these gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, culturally we are better off. Materially, we are certainly very poor. But because we are culturally advanced, even the actual poor man, he does not feel that he is in poverty.
Prabhupāda: Sex cult, yes, gṛhamedhī. Who stick into family life, that is sex cult. It has no other meaning. It is a concession of sex. To remain in household life means a concession of sex.
Devotee: So now you are sixty-five...
Dr. Patel: No, that is not sex. I am prepared to oppose you for hear.
Prabhupāda: No, I don't hear you. I hear the śāstra.
Dr. Patel: No, but this is also śāstra. Please let me...
Prabhupāda: Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham (SB 7.9.45). No, maithuna, but maithuna products. You are attached to your sons and daughters. That is maithuna product.
Prabhupāda: There is chance of being accepted all over the world. There is now opposition, and some of the politicians, they're of opinion that "This culture, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, is spreading like epidemic, and if we do not check, in ten years time they'll take the government."
Guest (1) (Indian man): Of America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) That there is possibility because these young men, they are taking. So everywhere revolution takes place by young men. So if it is actually spreading like epidemic, and young men, they are taking part, so within ten years it is not impossible.
Prabhupāda: Therefore mahājana. Bali Mahārāja is one of the authorities. In spite of all difficulties, all opposition... His guru is opposition. "No. I shall give Him whatever He wants." Sarvātma-samarpane bali. Bali became perfect by surrendering everything. (someone enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Sit down. Where is Gopāla?
Mr. Asnani: He's in office.
Prabhupāda: Did you talk with him?
Mr. Asnani: I told him that should I see Prabhupāda... I told him I'll come today.
Prabhupāda: So call him.
Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life, either in rasa dance or the cowherd's play or killing the demons or in dining and dancing. The friends are eating, they are being stolen by Brahmā—but the center is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. All activities are going on, just like in other place. But here in Vṛndāvana, all activities centered around Kṛṣṇa. When Brahmā is stealing His friends, the center is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming to destroy—the center is Kṛṣṇa. When there is forest fire, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana beauty. In happiness, in danger, in perplexities, in friendship—everything Kṛṣṇa. Kāliya-damana. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to Yamunā. He has fallen down in the..., to fight the Kāliya." It is a very, what is called, calamity. But still, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. "Kṛṣṇa has entered Yamunā to fight with Kāliya." It is not at all good news for Mother Yaśodā, Nanda, friends and family, not at all. Their life is lost. But still the Kṛṣṇa is center. This is Vṛndāvana life. In everything Kṛṣṇa is center, anything. We are having just like: "Kṛṣṇa's a bad propaganda," opposition.
Prabhupāda: Who cares for this Transcendental Meditation? They are not hogging any propaganda. It is coming this ear and going this ear. They don't care for it. So many others have gone. Who cares for them? They are not serious for Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because they know it is changing the whole civilization.
Haṁsadūta: There's that one verse you were saying, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that so many Brahmās may come and go...
Prabhupāda: Unless there is opposition, it is not genuine. It is not genuine or it is not serious. Opposition must be there. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead—there is opposition always, from the very beginning of His birth.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇa had all the opposition throughout His life.
Prabhupāda: Throughout His life. That means genuine Supreme Lord. Before His birth.
Dr. Patel: Before, yes. And after, He was cursed (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Śiśupāla was His cousin-brother.
Dr. Patel: Cousin-brother. (Sanskrit) If you consider that, He rose against all odds. Greater the opposition, better you become.
Prabhupāda: Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu (BG 9.29). God must be equal to everyone.
Prabhupāda: Let them say that. This is our advertising. And let this opposition party understand that "If it is brainwash, then your whole country is now washed. (laughter) How you'll protect them? It is already washed." Tell them like that, humorous.
Rāmeśvara: The price of this printing...
Prabhupāda: Very cheap. No, we are supplying also very cheap.
Prabhupāda: So you can invite this opposition cult to see what we are doing. "Why you are after us," ask, "like the barking dog? There is good use. It is the highest culture." Make some compromise: "Why you are after simply spoiling? Don't you want advancement in culture and knowledge? Why you are so envious?" Just try to bring the leaders, that "What is use? You also join. It is a culture. There is no need of repressing us. We are serious to introduce a new culture for the benefit of the whole nation. Why don't you study this? Do you mean to say we are publishing books only, all sentiment, brainwash, and people are purchasing?"
Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.
Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful.
Prabhupāda: It is so much mercy from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa wanted all these things. Unless there is... Kṛṣṇa became important when He killed so many demons, not lying down on the lap of Mother Yaśodā. And while He was on the lap of Mother Yaśodā, from that day He began to kill. He began to kill. And there was attack. Therefore Kṛṣṇa became the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So even Kṛṣṇa was not exempted, what to speak of us. Prahlāda Mahārāja was not exempted. As soon as you speak of God, this opposition will come. Jesus Christ was crucified. So they are so kind they have not crucified me or my men. (laughs) Otherwise you have to expect all these things. Nityānanda Prabhu was personally injured. So these are the... Haridāsa Ṭhākura was beaten in twenty-two bazaars. This task is like that.
Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.
Indian man: Have seen the new light.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're opposing me very vigorously in America.
Indian man: And that is a good sign.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our victory, when there is opposition, and that is our victory. In spite of opposition, we are selling our books in large quantity. Yes. Large quantity. What is the one week sale that? Eighteen lakhs or something like...
Girirāja: In one week, the books, total of books, was seven lakhs books in one week.
Indian man: In one week? That would be hundred thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: No, no. More than. Eh? Seven lakhs?
Guest (11) (Indian man): But mostly they are in America. Also in that number in Japan?
Prabhupāda: No, America. And opposition is also in America. No, Europe and America, they are taking.
Guest (10): Opposition is natural. Because you are converting their churches into temples.
Prabhupāda: No, there are many... First thing is that my students are advised, "No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication up to the point of smoking cigarette and drinking tea, and no gambling." But this is their life. How they can give up this? That is... It is a shock. Therefore they say, "brainwashing," that "How a gentleman can give up all these things?" Many... No many. A few of my students, they left. They said that "Swamiji is denying the primary necessities of life." They left. They could not tolerate even. So I do not make any compromise. That you want to become my student you have to give up these things. So the responsible parents, they are appreciating that "My son is now purified."
Girirāja: Mahāṁsa.
Prabhupāda: Her (His) said, mother in the beginning she opposed. Yes, she is happy now.
Guest (10): She wants to meet you, Prabhupāda. Can I bring her tomorrow?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: ...at a time. Simply the sense must be there. Jñānavan. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyante (BG 7.19). To surrender to Kṛṣṇa is not easy, but if one is jñānavān, he can do it. So make your country jñānavān, not these rascals, unnecessarily wasting time by opposing us. They are rascals. So you have to turn these rascals into sense. Then it will take. Give them prasādam. Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Time will come, ours. Do it. I'll die, but you shall remain. You are all young men.
Prabhupāda: If they have no conception, we should give them conception that the body is dead, decomposed, then where is the sex? Where is the inclination? Similarly, the soul originally... As it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, that "Everything is coming from Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now let us talk about Brahman." This is the meaning of athāto brahma-jijñāsāh. Then next verse is..., sūtra, code-janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). So unless sex comes from God... It may be perverted in the material world. That is another thing. But originally, pure sex must be there in God. Otherwise how it comes? Everything is emanating from the Supreme. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So how you can say there is no sex? Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura explains that janmādy asya, ādi-rasa. Ādi. Ādi-rasa means sex enjoyment. So he has explained that sex has come from... Because we have used perverted sex, we have got a very bad idea. But actually sex is there in the original. Otherwise there is no question of mādhurya-rasa. Hlādinī-śakti. There is no question of sex. You do not understand Absolute. The opposition party will inquire you, but sex is originally from Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Good explanation-stool. Stool, this side or that side... (break) More opposition there will be, more we have to defend.
Rāmeśvara: It's forcing us to become expert in different fields.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: We wrote in the newsletter to the Society that even though our movement is being attacked is so many ways, the best counterattack is through book distribution.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best answer to this opposition. And when the case is there, put all the books before the judge: "Now you read and give your judgment. Don't... You are learned lordship. Please read these books and give your judgment. We have got already judgment from the scholars." Present like that. "But still, because in your court it is presented, so we pray that you give your judgment after understanding our method of brainwash." That will make him flat.
Prabhupāda: Conflict is already there. Just like they're opposing.
Rāmeśvara: But I mean actual destruction of their culture, their...
Prabhupāda: Now they are trying to destroy us. And we are trying to destroy them. The conflict is already there. And this is now psychological fight. And then there will be actual fight. And we must take part in that fight.
Rāmeśvara: We will be the only ones who have any vision what to do after the war.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have got clear vision. We are not putting any theory. We are always presenting fact, and that is materializing. Just like we started this farm. It is materializing gradually. It is not yet fully organized; still, there is hope that it will give peace to the people. There is sufficient hope.
Rāmeśvara: It's called Angola. And the Americans were trying to support the opposing side. But the public in America has got such a bad taste from Vietnam that they became what they call isolationists.
Prabhupāda: They have become hopelessly, what is called, unsuccessful in Vietnam.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. So they're very, very reluctant. So they withdrew public support, and the government had to withdraw, and the country was lost.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2) (Indian man): No, what is that? That is nothing. We see...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the principle, why they are opposing it. They are not these transcendental meditator that here going and coming home, and they are doing all same, because they have no restriction. But my students, as soon as they come to this, they are not, no more going home. They will not touch any food, yes, because they have seen there is a (indistinct).
Guest (1): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Practically begin. Any boy who comes to me, he's lost forever to his family. In other religion there is no such thing.
Satsvarūpa: You were asking yesterday what are some of the charges that the opposing party makes against us. That's another one, that we follow absolute authority, your authority and also in the temples, that the temple president or leaders, they have authority, and this is not healthy psychology, that we should...
Prabhupāda: Why you come to pose your authority? If authority is not good, then why do you come to instruct your authority? Hm? The same thing, eh, change from one authority to another authority.
Satsvarūpa: But I don't say you have to accept me absolutely as...
Prabhupāda: Then why do you speak nonsense then, if I haven't got to accept you? What is the use of speaking all nonsense? If nobody accepts you, then why do you talk nonsense? Somebody's selling something, and if he says, "Don't purchase it," then what is the use of... (laughs) All contradiction. After all, they are nonsense.
Prabhupāda: So our... The opposition is very strong now?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah, yes. They're trying their best. And personally also from outside, there are some friends, outsiders, but not in the movement, but those who are slightly favorable to the movement. They also have some comments about some of the techniques that we use, some of the methods that we use in saṅkīrtana, in book distribution, things like that.
Prabhupāda: They do not like it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some of them don't. The technique that we use especially during the Christmas time.
Prabhupāda: Why? We cannot invite friend to join?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, they are saying that we go in disguise.
Hari-śauri: Santa Claus suits.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, things like that. In fact, some Indians, they telephoned. In Atlanta there are many Bengalis. They telephone me, and they are saying that "Why do you do that? You are already well known, and you can sell as you are. You don't need to be disguised. People appreciate that way better than going something hidden, sort of cheating propensity idea." There's some truth in it.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now it is in the right hand. Resourceful, you Americans. You can do this. There is scientist. So we have got the framework very nice. Now you can push on. It is a good movement for the benefit of the whole world. Kṛṣṇa will help you. Kṛṣṇa will recognize you. Go on pushing rightly. Our only mission is para-upakāra—we don't want to exploit anyone—Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. The people in general, human being, they have got this opportunity of being out of the clutches of māyā and they are kept in darkness. What is this? Is that civilization? This is our mission. Here is opportunity for his getting out of the clutches of māyā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā (BG 7.14), and they are being misled, the so-called science and nasty philosophy and economics and making them, training them as demons and rākṣasas. What is this civilization? So our movement is against this demonic civilization. It is really para-upakāra.
And this is India's mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. So... And Kṛṣṇa also confirms, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati, na ca tasmād... (Bg 18.68). You'll be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Simply go on sincerely working for this movement. Nobody can defeat you. Take all strategic point, fighting with māyā, and become victorious. From any point of view, come on. We shall fight with māyā. It is a great declaration of fight with māyā. Not with māyā. Our fight is with the demons. Māyā is servant, maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. She can withdraw by the order. But she cannot withdraw because people are demons. So this European opposition, American opposition is that the demons are now feeling the pressure. That is recognition that "Now it is a fight. We have to defend."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As long as we stay within the law they cannot find any fault with us. They are trying like anything, but they cannot find any fault.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The poison has already entered. (laughs) Now it is reacting, so they are feeling the pressure. That is our success, when there is opposition. They are not going to oppose any such movement like Transcendental Meditation. No, they don't care. But this, they are seeing that it is very venomous poison.
Prabhupāda: Their material adventure for mitigating suffering, will it be possible? (aside:) Bring some sugar cane, er, sugar candy. The mode of ignorance is very, very bad. Little more advance, mode of passion. Further advanced, mode of knowledge. Further advanced is spiritual position. Just see. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to give the human society the best knowledge and they have combined together to oppose it. How mode of ignorance is prominent. The simple method is to hear about Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya (SB 12.3.51). Simple. We have given so many books. Always we should hear about Kṛṣṇa, speak about Kṛṣṇa. Then this base quality, ignorance and passion, will go. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). So wherever you remain, you should continue this. Otherwise māyā will attack. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. So we should hold classes very repeatedly and preach. What is the complaint of the opposing party?
Brahmānanda: That we are zombies.
Prabhupāda: (chuckling) So our Śrīdhara Mahārāja's associates are not very good. Then what is his position?
Satsvarūpa: It cannot be said that he is opposed to them.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Satsvarūpa: You can't say he is opposed to them if he always associates with them. They're envious...
Prabhupāda: (sarcastically) Very good associates. That is his associate. He may not be very... No, everyone is not openly envious, everyone, but we can understand by behavior. Nobody is openly envious.
Satsvarūpa: Just by keeping apart, he..., that..., he shows there's some enviousness. (long pause)
Prabhupāda: Where is my cap?
Satsvarūpa: (aside:) Maybe he had it.
Prabhupāda: So socks will be required? (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they have no... Their philosophy has no real basis.
Prabhupāda: That cannot appeal to the higher educated person.
Prabhupāda: They're organized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they're highly organized. They have regular newsletters.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Yes, one spoon more. Take. (break) Very strong opposition. (chuckling) This combination in your country is costly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Peas, puffed rice and cucumber.
Prabhupāda: Puffed rice is costly!
Prabhupāda: How he may... Some more money is spent or less money, that doesn't matter. We want to see whether the result is there. I understand in that way. Phalena paricīyate. Account... You may spend ten rupees more or less; it doesn't matter. I never kept. I want to see the result, that's all. I was asking Tripurāri that whether this opposition has hurt our book selling. He said no. Is it all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'd say that's a... It hurts initially, but then we rebound. On the whole, it does not hurt.
Prabhupāda: That we want to see.
Prabhupāda: That's it, tit for tat.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He never came back.
Prabhupāda: So we should adopt that means. Anyone who is opposing, give him good beating.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they do.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least every year.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter how they are opposing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think the book sales will tremendously increase this year in India especially.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Yes. And India, if we are popular, oh, then government will see.
Hari-śauri: There's tremendous potential for book distribution in India.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, take five lakhs and print and distribute. All languages.
Prabhupāda: The practical example is there. In everywhere they are coming to the temple. So in England there is opposition.
Jayatīrtha: Not really. There's none of this deprogramming or any trouble like that. People are pretty peaceful. We have a pretty good reputation. The government doesn't oppose us.
Prabhupāda: They oppose our Ratha-yātrā.
Jayatīrtha: Our Ratha-yātrā, yes. I don't think they'll ever stop opposing. This year when I went to the Ratha-yātrā, when we had the Ratha-yātrā, I saw that their feeling is so strong about it I don't think they'll ever let us have a good cart on that route. I wish they would, but I don't think they will. They told us that they only way they'll let us have a big car is if we change the route. So actually that's one thing I wanted to discuss with you while I was here, whether... If we had the Ratha-yātrā in the Indian district, like Wembley...
Prabhupāda: No.
Lokanātha: It's fortune to take birth in the West now. It's fortunate to take birth in America or England? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition." And the leaders say that "India, giving more stress on the soul, not on the body, India's position is so degraded." This is the leaders' opinion. Big, big leaders, they think. Therefore the so-called leaders or learned scholars, they write notes on Bhagavad-gītā, but they never give any idea of spiritual life. They utilize Bhagavad-gītā for material end. This is going on. Just like our big leader, Gandhi. He was supposed to be very strict follower of Bhagavad-gītā, and he has never instructed about spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are doing it on account of this movement. Government has appreciation our movement, from private sources. Now this, our American, what is called? Opposing.
Hari-śauri: Deprogrammers.
Prabhupāda: Deprogramming. The Indian government are taking seriously, yes, that is private arrangement—that "Why they are opposing this movement? We allow Christian to come here. Why not Kṛṣṇa?" The Consulate General, ambassador, has taken.
Harikeśa: It is very important.
Prabhupāda: They are taking it from national point of view. That is... Anyway, there is some defense from government side, their representative attending every court case.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are opposing. Intelligent men, they are seeing that This movement will finish our civilization. They are afraid. They have already said, "It is increasing like epidemic, and if we don't check them, within ten years they'll take the government."
Hari-śauri: A government official in Houston said it on the TV.
Bali-mardana: They are afraid for their lives.
Prabhupāda: So I am very much attached to that palace.
Bhagavān: We are very much attached to you.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Come on. Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Jaya. very nice. (someone showing pictures?) Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. We have got Balarāma, the most powerful being, so we have no fear. Balarāma. Nāyam ātmā bala-hīnena labhyaḥ. Bala-hīnena labhyaḥ.(?) "One who is not supported by Balarāma, he cannot understand, cannot come to the spiritual platform." Na medhayā na bahunā śrutena.(?) By intelligence one cannot. He must be supported by Balarāma, big brother of Kṛṣṇa. (laughter)
Guest (1): Because the people are not opposing. If they opposed him, he shall have to vacate there also.
Prabhupāda: What about Sai Baba?
Guest (1): He is doing some, but... He is doing all this gold bangles, and gold rings and all those things, giving it to the people. So people are attracted. Sometimes the biggest families which are blessed by him are also in Karmanis.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They were kidnapped, they were taken by force, and so on, so on. So many times.
Mr. Koshi: No, I think the opposition comes because of...
Prabhupāda: Opposition comes means there was some strength of this movement. Therefore there was...
Mr. Koshi: No, I think the complaint was of families...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they felt the strength. In Bengali it is called capale babale.(?)
Mr. Koshi: What is the meaning of that?
Prabhupāda: Meaning means when there is some weight, is a (indistinct). So now they are feeling the weight of this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Mr. Koshi: They were afraid of something.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One problem I see... Of course, I haven't read the article in any detail, but generally they very much oppose—of course, unrightly so—they very much oppose the delineation of "śūdra." They are śūdras, these harijanas. But...
Prabhupāda: But it doesn't matter. We shall elevate them to go back to home, back to Godhead. Whatever he may be. Striyo vaiśyas tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayaḥ (BG 9.33). Simply by denying that "I am not śūdra," that will not help. But they must be elevated to the standard of brāhmaṇa. That we will talk later on. But we have to convince that "This world movement is going on to make the human society to the highest perfection of life. If you join, we can help you." To the perfection of life. On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. There is no difficulty. That we can do.
Prabhupāda: He's preaching His glory. He is everything, and these rascals are denying. And He comes: "No, no, no, no. It is wrong." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). And a preacher means he is doing that, training people how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Will he not be...? He is... A preacher is giving real sense. To awaken this sense, Kṛṣṇa had to come personally. And he is doing the same work: "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." How much great service it is. Prahlāda Mahārāja... He is asking, his father, that "Why you are training them to Kṛṣṇa?" "Better surrender. He has given you so much strength, so much power." That was... Prahlāda Mahārāja has given him. In spite of so much trouble given to him, he was speaking the same thing repeatedly: "Father, don't do this. Become a devotee." Stubborn. He was giving advice. This is the struggle between devotee and nondevotee. Therefore devotees are so dear to Kṛṣṇa. Despite all opposition, meeting all difficulties, they will say, "No, there is God. We must surrender." So he'll not be very dear? Just like soldiers for the country. They are meeting danger.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This movement is so powerful, this message is so pure, that it seems that no matter how big the opposition is, still, it can conquer. We can be victorious. Arjuna was victorious. There's a wonderful statement in the beginning... You make this... It's stated in the Tenth Canto. Parīkṣit Mahārāja is appreciating Arjuna, and he's saying, "How, how could he defeat such gigantic...?" He's comparing to the ocean the battlefield. He says, "Bhīṣma, such a big fish..."
Prabhupāda: Timiṅgila.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: In the ocean there are fishes. You cannot see them. Big fishes: (makes gulping sound). From the skeleton I saw in Calcutta Museum.
Prabhupāda: No, secular state it was...
Indian man (4): Secularism means it's opposed to religion.
Devotee (2): Different parties, different government.
Prabhupāda: No, no. We have to study the Indian constitution. It is defective because by the same constitution our present Prime Minister was put into custody for nineteen months. And we are working on the same constitution. So the constitution itself is defective. Anything man-made will be defective.
Prabhupāda: ...opposition of my constructing a temple in Māyāpur.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the very beginning. First you asked for land. That was refused. Then you sent money, but for three years—nothing. I think you sent money twice.
Prabhupāda: So many things also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then we were even stopped by the elements, when we went... You took us, and we went and stayed at Devānanda Gauḍīya Maṭha. But the rain suddenly came so strongly, (Prabhupāda chuckles) we could...
Prabhupāda: Could not cross to the other side.
Prabhupāda: General idea is "How a young man can live without a young woman?" Not now. This is the material idea. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Oh, you are after woman? Oh. You are more than committing suicide."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Diametrically opposed.
Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'pi. "You are after woman? It is more dangerous than drinking poison." Who will accept? And Western country—"Oh, without young woman, what is life?" Madhudviṣa became victimized by woman. So he became so ashamed that he left, that "My career is finished now." He's conscious.
Prabhupāda: That is useless. Then kill them. No future. Immediately. Why future?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Practically the scientific community is going to realize that you're their most..., biggest opposition. They're going to come to appreciate that because you're the only one, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who has dared to challenge all of these scientists. And as your representatives, when they see what we're...
Prabhupāda: Because they... Nowadays people say "We don't want any sentiment, religious. We want science." Rascal, where is your science?
Balavanta: They have only blind faith. "Big bang," all these things. There's no evidence, no proof, simply blind faith. And but for you, no one is challenging. They would simply go unchallenged.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said in the article that in Ceylon, this man Kovoor has been challenging and being victorious for decades, challenging everyone, "There is no God. There is no soul." But now it said for the first time someone has turned the tables on him and challenged him for the first time. He never expected such a thing.
Prabhupāda: And public applauded.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Inside we are going to say very strongly about our philosophy and science. So anybody who's going to oppose that, we're going to duel them. Also we'll show some films, our Hare Kṛṣṇa films, just after the conference. The evening, I have some entertainment program. That program is for showing our films and our activities, ISKCON activities throughout the world. So I have brought all the slides from Los Angeles that we have from our BBT department, and also I have all the films ready. Also they can attend maṅgala-ārati, and in the evening they can also attend the sandhyā-ārati. And also some of them want just to see our temple, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. They have heard that the architect is very nice, and it's very nicely decorated. So some of them already heard about it, so they just want to see how the temple is here. Overall, our idea is also to make them devotees.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is wanted. So go and arrange. That's all.
Prabhupāda: But other parties, they are not taking interest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other parties mean?
Prabhupāda: Opposition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, well, I haven't heard very much opposition.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these two views, completely opposed. And I'm going to propose that...
Prabhupāda: No, it is a common sense. There is mother and there is children. Where is the father? They have no common sense even. Everything is produced... There are four kinds of living entities: udbhid-ja, sveda-ja, aṇḍa-ja and jarāyu-ja. They do not know anything. You are taking account of the jarāyu-ja, Not udbhid-ja, sveda-ja, aṇḍa-ja. They think the trees are coming automatically. That is their theory. That's not fact. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). They do not consider this. A bug is coming from bed—they think it is automatically. No? The bīja-pradaḥ pitā... There are four kinds of births.
Prabhupāda: Don't try for China.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You had said that before a few times also. They are completely restricted in every respect. Whereas in other..., East European countries and in Russia, the professors may read various types of literature, in China they're not allowed to do that. And if they are ever caught doing that, they immediately are sentenced to prison and they lose everything. The difference in China as opposed to Russia is that in China every few years all the professors are made to be farmers. And also the workers in the factories and the farmers are the predominate controllers of the universities. They are not at all interested in culture or in higher education. Their whole purpose even for the universities is to train up loyal Chinese citizens. Everything is for that end. So no cultural interest would ever be tolerated on the part of the authorities there. And the people are so much controlled by these authorities that they would lose everything.
Prabhupāda: Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). (pause)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You said before that you..., that it is said that you were poisoned?
Prabhupāda: No. These kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned.
| Page Title: | Opposing (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 18 of May, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=134, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 134 |