One with God (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"one with Brahman" |"one with God" |"one with Him" |"one with Krishna" |"one with You" |"one with krsna" |"one with the Absolute" |"one with the Lord" |"one with the Paramatma" |"one with the Supersoul" |"one with the Supreme" |"one with the brahma effulgence" |"one with the brahmajyoti" |"one with the cosmic consciousness" |"one with the impersonal Brahman" |"one with the impersonal Brahman" |"one with the purusa" |"one with the spirit whole"

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 10, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: One is... That is different thing. You are not one with President Nixon?

Woman: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then are you President Nixon?

Woman: He's a human being. He's part of me.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. He is American. He is human being. In so many qualities you are one. But you cannot claim for that, you are President Nixon. You should understand in that way. In so many respect, qualities, you are one with God, but that does not mean you are God. God is one. That means you have no complete understanding. Just like in spite of your becoming American or human being, you deny to identify yourself with President Nixon because you have full knowledge of President Nixon and yourself. And as soon as you say, "I am God," that means you have no full knowledge of God. You are insane. You do not know what is God. That very thing immediately asserts that you are unknown factor about God. God is said, "Great," but you are claiming that greatness. That means you do not know how great He is. A tiny factor, you are claiming that "I am God," without having that greatness. That means insane, insanity. The same way: if you claim that "I am President Nixon," that is insanity. Similarly, God is, how great He is, how much greater than President Nixon. You deny to become one with President Nixon, and you accept to be one with God? How much insane you are. Just try to understand.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). Zero, all everything zero, make it zero. Śūnyam. Jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (CC Madhya 19.167). Jñāna-karma means there is some aspiration of profit. Karmīs, they are trying to be elevated in the higher planetary system. And jñānīs, they are wanting to become one with the Supreme. So that is also demand. That means there is some desire. It is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). But one has to become anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam—any desire, make it zero. Then what to do, I shall become dull and dumb? No. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167), you have to work according..., favorably, as Kṛṣṇa desires. That's it. That is wanted, that is bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu, that is wanted. You have to simply abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa or His representative, that's all. That is required.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: No. What...

Prabhupāda: No, no, first of all, principle of religion. What is the principle of religion?

Mrs. Keating: Well I think it comes from within, inside. I think we are at one with God and I am a reflection of God. I am an idea of God. That's what I believe.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice. Idea of God means whatever you have got, God has got the same idea. Is it not?

Mrs. Keating: Huh?

Prabhupāda: You mean to say like that?

Mrs. Keating: Ah huh.

Prabhupāda: Or you are a sample of God.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: The piśācī of bhukti and mukti. Bhukti means karmī's business, "I shall enjoy."

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Bhukti. And mukti means "I shall become one with the Supreme." So these two things are described as piśācī.

Reporter: Really?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Reporter: Ah, piśācī means witch.

Prabhupāda: Bhukti-mukti-piśācī (etc.)

Reporter: "As long as...?"

Prabhupāda: "So long these two piśācīs are there within the heart, how one can enjoy the company of bhakti?"

Reporter: Ah? But if you are one with the perfect one, you cannot be one with the perfect one without bhakti.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Nobody knows. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, from one body to another, we are doing that, every moment, but these rascals, they do not know. I was a child, I was a boy. Where is that body? It is gone. It is a fact. I am in a different body. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Still, they won't believe that there is life after death. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ we are experiencing in this life. But they won't believe that after this deha, there is another deha. That they won't believe, such dull-headed. (Hindi) Are they dull-headed or (are) they intelligent scholar and scientist? What is your opinion? What is your opinion? You are practical man. (break) That is later on, so 'ham. First of all, understand what you are aham, then so 'ham. You do not know what is aham. So these rascals, they do not know aham, and they're speaking, so 'ham. (break) When you understand yourself, then you understand God also. Then you'll understand that God and yourself are of the same ingredient, so 'ham. Just like if I say, so 'ham. "I am just like Indira Gandhi." Indira Gandhi is the big personality. So, "I am as good as Indira Gandhi." So this is applicable in this sense, that Indira Gandhi is Indian. I am also Indian. Indira Gandhi is a human being. I am also a human being. In this way, go on, analytical study. You'll find so many things, you are as good as Indira Gandhi. But still, you are not Indira Gandhi. So so 'ham means to understand that I am not this matter. I am the spirit soul, as good as the Supreme Lord. But that does not mean I am Supreme Lord, or as good as Supreme Lord. Qualitatively, I am one, not quantitatively. Just like a drop of water from the sea. (aside:) You can come here. (break) All the chemicals in the drop of the sea water, you'll find in the sea also. But still, the drop of water is not equal to the sea. So so 'ham means qualitatively one with God, the Supreme. That not means that "I am the Supreme Lord." That is nonsense.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's so nonsense.

Guest (1): Nonsense? Well, perhaps that's true. I don't know...

Guru dāsa: When you remember who you are you serve, and when you forget who you are, you think you're one with God. Just like suppose you sat in Nam Karoli's chair, just forgetting who you are, that his chela, his disciple, I'm Nam Karoli.

Guest (1): Nim Karoli.

Guru dāsa: Nim Karoli. Sorry. Similarly, when we forget who we are, we think we're one with God, but when we remember, we're His bhakta, we're His servant.

Guest (1): Yes, that's also true. It's a fact.

Guru dāsa: When Hanumān, he's a great bhakta. We should follow in his footsteps. "One who says he is My devotee, he is not My devotee. One who says he is a devotee of My devotee, he is My devotee." Very humble. Then we can make advancement (CC Madhya 13.80).

Guest (1): Mahārāja is teaching—you asked his teaching—these things are the same really, I, things that he's told me. But he said that the whole universe was God, and that you should never hurt anyone, that you should serve...

Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?

Guest (1): I beg your pardon.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). And why they want artha? To satisfy their senses. Dharma artha kāma... And when they're again baffled, they want mukti, to become one with the Supreme. These are the four different tastes of the material. All, all of them are baffling and illusory. The so-called religiosity with a view to get some material profit... That comes everywhere. Just (as) in Christianity, the religion means, "O God, give us our daily bread." Material profit, similarly, in anywhere, they go for material benefit. Therefore this kind of religion, it is also good, but it not first-class. The first-class religion is sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6), when one is awakened to the devotional service of the Lord, ahaitukī apratihatā, without any cause, and without being impeded. So ahaitukī apratihatā... That is, that stage is required. Not that "My sense gratification is not done here. Oh, let us give up this company." That is sense gratification. (laughs)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?

Nitāi: To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.

In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, and this stage is attained very easily by the pure devotee. In that stage of existence, the idea of becoming one with the Supreme Brahman and annihilating one's individuality becomes hellish, and the idea of attaining the heavenly kingdom becomes phantasmagoria, and the senses are like broken serpents' teeth. As there is no fear of a serpent with broken teeth, so there is no fear from the senses when they are automatically controlled. The world is miserable for the materially infected person, but for a devotee the entire world is as good as Vaikuṇṭha, or the spiritual sky. The highest personality in this material universe is no more significant than an ant for a devotee. Such a stage can be achieved by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, who preached pure devotional service in this age.

O'Grady: Could you read the opening little bit again?

Nitāi: In the purport?

O'Grady: Yeah.

Nitāi: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word."

O'Grady: O.K. Now, is the Absolute internal or external?

Prabhupāda: Absolute has no internal or external. That is Absolute. If there is internal and external, it is not Absolute.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: By spiritual advancement means that heart disease is cured. Then you will be... Then there is no more envious that "I shall become superior. I shall become Kṛṣṇa. I shall become God." These are different symptoms of the same material disease. Somebody is thinking "I shall become minister," somebody is thinking "I shall become leader," somebody is thinking "I shall become millionaire," and at last, "I shall become God." So even the so-called religionist, that heart disease is there. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi kāmī. Bhukti means ordinary karmīs want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want "I shall become God, I shall become one with God." That means "I shall become God." One with God means I'll become. Bhukti-mukti and siddhi. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and gain. Just like this rascal is doing, (indistinct) Baba. He has some yogic siddhi, so he has some (indistinct). Otherwise what is the attraction? He is a most wretched man, always he's smoking, and he sleeps too long, no regulation of life. But people are attracted because they have been captivated that "If I pay him one lakh, I shall get two lakhs." This is the propaganda. It is a..., what is called, gambling. You put one rupee, and if you are successful you will get four rupees. Siddhi. Because material world, they think "If I get more money, then it is perfection." Everywhere, the whole world is thinking-nationwise, individual—how to become. You will find in Europe the same propensity. Napoleon is trying to make Paris the most opulent city in Europe. Or Englishmen, Gladstone and others, they are trying to make England, London, most opulent city in the world. Similarly, czar was very accomplished. (indistinct) it is burst out into war. So we see the propensity. In Paris, the Place Concorde, so many beautiful buildings are there for museum, how they have conquered. In Rome, how they have conquered over Egypt, that pyramid they have brought.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Mirabhai is becoming mixed up with Kṛṣṇa. You have seen it?

Brahmānanda: Yes, that was the final point. She worshiped Kṛṣṇa throughout her whole life so at the end she could become one with Him.

Prabhupāda: This is going on, the Māyāvādī rascals. But they do not refer where Kṛṣṇa says that "You become My devotee, then you become pushed (indistinct)."

Brahmānanda: They showed the two bodies coming together.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: I think the picture of the two bodies...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "You and Me and all these soldiers, we existed before, we are existing now, and we shall exist in this way in the future." Where does He say that "We shall be mixed up"? He never says. And these rascals, they have got so many parties, the same thing. Where do you get this idea? There is sayujya-mukti, but Kṛṣṇa never says that "You take it." All this Ramakrishna Mission, all these, this (indistinct), he gives the example that rivers come from different sources, but when it comes to the ocean it is mixed up. Why don't you see within the water? Within the water there are big, big fishes, they do not mix up with the water. They see superficially the water. This is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Our philosophy is "Come. Come here, play with Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy. Come here, dance with Kṛṣṇa as gopī. Come here, accept Kṛṣṇa as your son, Kṛṣṇa will accept you as His mother." There will be always two, and enjoy, any way. Even as enemy, demon displaying part of enemy, Kṛṣṇa killing, that is also pastime too. That is also enjoyment. Just like sometimes we fight, friend to friend, to enjoy life, because fighting is enjoyment. You become enemy of Kṛṣṇa purposefully, and to fight with Him, that is giving pleasure to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying, and He also becomes so staunch enemy. So this is also transcendental pleasure. Just like Bhīṣma. He is piercing the body of Kṛṣṇa, and He is coming with cakra. That is a pleasure.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Ānanda-mārga woman: Whenever I realize God I receive it through my mind and not perfect. But if I meditate and surrender, then there is no distance between me and God. I reach God and I become one with God. And that's the only time I can call everything true meditation. And that's the only time I experience this life in me. And I cannot talk about it as "me and God" because it was the same as God, because I became one with God. And there was no distance really.

Prabhupāda: Then you are God?

Ānanda-mārga woman: I am not God. I am just... I truly experience this God through me all the time.

Prabhupāda: You say that you and God, one, and again you say that you are not...

Ānanda-mārga woman: If I meditate, then I become surrendered to God. And I'm trying to do that by trying to take this distance away.

Prabhupāda: That means when you surrender to God, then you become God, that you are surrendered God, and He is the person to be surrendered. There are two Gods, why not? You say, "I surrender to God."

Ānanda-mārga woman: I said when I surrender to God...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that means God is different from you; otherwise how you can surrender to Him?

Ānanda-mārga woman: Right. When I am out, off in the world, when my mind is working, then I'm separate from God. I have made myself separate from God by the senses, by my mind, thinking. But then, when I...

Prabhupāda: Then you have to accept that you are one and different from God simultaneously. That is the conclusion, that you say sometimes that you are one, and at the same time you say different, therefore the philosophy comes to this point, that you are simultaneously one and different from God.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That I can understand, that sometimes you realize that you are one, and sometimes you realize that you are different. That means simultaneously you are one and different from God. This is the conclusion. Acintya-bhedābheda. This is the philosophy, acintya, inconceivable, one and different, one because we are one in quality, and different in quantity. That is our position. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. The Vedic information is like that, that He is the Supreme Being amongst all beings. He is also being, we are also being, but He is the Supreme Being. So as being, we are one, but as Supreme and subordinate, we are different. This is the conclusion. As being, living being, we are one. That is not very difficult. Just like in your country the king, the Shah, he is also a being and you are also a being. But he is the supreme being in this country. Although as human being you are equal, but so far his power, his position is concerned, he is different. Similarly, as being, we are one with God, but so far the power and position is concerned, He is too big, the great. We are subordinate. This is our position. That is the right conclusion.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Muhammad said. That is authority. That we accept. We accept Muhammad as the representative of God. Whatever he says, we accept, that's all. What you meant, that is his business. But he is authority, he said that "This is the name of God. You chant, you pray." Allah or God. That's all. That is authority.

Guest: Is it also good to chant the name of a person who is holy, who is one with God, not the name of God.

Prabhupāda: That you have to find out, but here it is already there. Why should do trouble to find out a holy man, another holy man? The holy man says, Muhammad never said that "You chant my name." Then how one can be holy man if he says like that? We have to test whether he is holy man or not. Here is the perfect holy man. He never said that "You chant my name." He said "Chant Allah's name." That is holy man. That is test of holy man. He does not become God, he serves God. That is holy man.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, we don't want mukti.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes. So...

Prabhupāda: Mukti flatters me: "Please accept me." We don't want mukti.

Pañcadraviḍa: So the devotee went on, "To want to become one with the Lord, that is material desire." So the Māyāvādī, he answered, he said, "No, to want to remain separate from the Lord and enjoy rasa, or exchange, with Him, that is also material desire. Because you want to stay two, God and you, so you can be separate just so you can enjoy an exchange. That is also a desire."

Prabhupāda: Therefore, because you have no brain, therefore you cannot understand the rasas with Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual; that is not material. Ānanda-rasa. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is the Vedic statement. There is cinmaya. In the spiritual world there is ananda. You... You have no knowledge. You, due to your poor fund of knowledge, you think that in the spiritual world there is no rasa; it is simply void, negation of this rasa. Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition."

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: "But in human society, even though one may be a low-grade member of the society, he can be trained up to be purified as a first-class brāhmaṇa. It only requires training. Therefore, manava-dharma means to impregnate a human being with spiritual knowledge. A human being must be educated spiritually. That means he must know that he is not this body. Kṛṣṇa teaches this idea in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe

kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā

tathā dehāntara prāptir

dhīras tatra na muhyati

(BG 2.13)

This is the beginning of spiritual education, that every one of us is not this body. Unfortunately the whole world is in darkness, and therefore every human is identifying with this body and thinking wrongly, 'I am Indian,' 'I am American,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this,' 'I am that.' To drive away this misconception of life is actually manava-dharma. We must know that we are not this body but spirit soul, and as such, we are part and parcel of God and therefore qualitatively one with God, exactly like a small particle of gold is also gold as is the gold from the big gold mine. But quantitatively the particle of gold is not equal to the gold in the mine. This is very elaborately described in the Bhagavad-gītā, and if we accept these principles of Bhagavad-gītā as manava-dharma, then the whole world will appreciate. And this is being done by our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Point Five: Elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti which are useful and wholesome but which are being discarded in practice, and those which may be considered to be unsuitable in the present times. Number Five: Regarding elements in our tradition relating to dharma and saṁsṛti..."

Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now, God has got son. That is all right, but what do you mean by God? Everyone has got son, but that does not mean everyone is God. What is the definition of God? You have got son. I have got son. So God has got son. That does not mean He is God. Everyone has got son.

Dr. Judah: Yes. Well, you see, the Roman Catholics, if we were to consider this then again, would say that the son of God is one with God and the Holy Spirit as the Trinity...

Prabhupāda: And again, the description of the son.

Dr. Judah: Yes, the three are one.

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but who is God? What is the definition of God? Just like king. We can describe, "King means who has got a big kingdom, a large tract of land. He is ruling over it," some description. So what is the definition of God in that...?

Dr. Judah: God is also the creator, they would say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.

Dr. Judah: Creator of the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the next question will be that if He is creator, then He has got nice brain. Otherwise how this wonderful creation is there. Everything is going on... Just like this big sea, God is creator; therefore although is a vast water, we are safely standing here because we know God has created in such a way although it is very vast it cannot go, cannot come up to this.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: The impersonalist theory is that I am now devotee. As soon as I become perfect I become one."

Prof. Hopkins: Oh.

Prabhupāda: That is their theory. Then there is no more difference. In the preliminary stage, when I am not perfect, I am worshiping some imaginary form of God. But when I become perfect there is no need of worshiping, I become one with God. This is impersonal. Now, actually, the Supreme has no form so they recommend whichever form you like to worship you can select out of these five. But their destination is the same. So somebody likes "I worship Śiva," somebody says "I worship Gaṇeśa," somebody says, "I worship Durgā," and Sūrya, or somebody says, "I worship Viṣṇu." So this Vaiṣṇava is impersonalist. You'll find amongst smārta brāhmaṇas there are also some of them Vaiṣṇavas, but they are impersonalists.

Prof. Hopkins: So you would... You would say that those, those smārtas say, and I know smārta brāhmaṇas who are worshipers of Viṣṇu. You would say they still are impersonalists in some ultimate sense because at some point they would deny...

Prabhupāda: No, it is very difficult to pick them out. Most of the so-called Vaiṣṇavas, they are impersonalists.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: It's difficult for people outside the society of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to see what the purpose is. How would you understand the purpose? Simply to make God known? How would you state...

Prabhupāda: Our purpose is how to become happy. Everyone is struggling how to become happy. Somebody is thinking that "If I can get money then I'll be happy." Somebody is thinking that "If we become one with the Supreme, then I'll be happy." And somebody thinks that "If I can get material power, then I'll be happy." So those who are thinking in terms of money, they are karmīs. And those who are thinking in terms of becoming one, they are jñānīs. And those who are thinking in terms of getting material power, they are yogis. But the bhaktas, they don't want any such perfection. They, bhaktis, "Let me worship the Supreme, that's all." Therefore he has already (indistinct) and they are all in want. Bhakta is satisfied simply by worshiping the Lord. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. And all others, karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they want something so they cannot be happy. So if happiness is my aim, then I must become a bhakta, otherwise there is no happiness. You are always in want. Somebody is in want of money, somebody is in want to becoming one with the Supreme, and somebody wants to show some jugglery, mysticism. So they want something. And a devotee, he doesn't want all these things. He wants to serve Kṛṣṇa, that's all. No demand. And he serves Kṛṣṇa without any motive. Ahaituky apratihatā. That is bhakta.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So anyway, he is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all right. (break) ...do not come to our temple? What is the reason?

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: Well, in the Nectar of Devotion you say that they don't chant with an aim to serve the Lord. Rather, they want to become one with Him. So they know that in the temple we are serving Kṛṣṇa.

Jayatīrtha: Besides that, when they come, usually someone calls them a rascal. (laughs) So they don't like to come.

Prabhupāda: No, no, don't say. (break) This is the first time I come here.

Brahmānanda: Golden Gate Park?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Golden Gate. What happened about that house?

Citsukhānanda: We are still trying to negotiate, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...university. It is almost like, not so big. You were in, anyone? Paris?

Brahmānanda: Yes, Sorbonne. I've been there, yes.

Prabhupāda: Not so big.

Morning Walk -- September 13, 1975, Vrndavana:

Indian man (1): We can become free from all anxieties.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is liberation. If you are filled up with anxieties where is your liberation? That is not liberation.

Dhṛṣṭaketu: They will also say that this condition of being one with the Supreme is also...

Prabhupāda: How you become one? If Kṛṣṇa or the consciousness is there but you lose your consciousness, why you become one?

Harikeśa: Well, it's not exactly that we lose consciousness but we merge into the supreme consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Supreme consciousness?

Harikeśa: Then we become God.

Prabhupāda: No. You cannot. Then why you are different now?

Harikeśa: It's my līlā. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Then if it is līlā, then why you are undergoing austerity? That is also līlā. If it is līlā, then why you are trying to get out of it by practicing austerity?

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Then you don't accept Bhagavad-gītā.

Acyutānanda: We also accept. During avatāra these things may go on, but actually...

Yaśodānandana: Ultimately everything will become one. The jīvātmā will become one with the Paramātmā. The Advaitavādī...

Prabhupāda: It is already one. That is Viśiṣṭādvaitavāda.

Acyutānanda: Yes, but it appears differently.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: But actually there is no difference.

Prabhupāda: No.

Acyutānanda: So we are one with God.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Acyutānanda: So we are one.

Prabhupāda: Why one? You are one and different, bhedābheda, acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different. Just like this. This is one and different. The children have come from the body—that is one—but still, they are different. Even in the hogs and pigs the acintya-bhedābheda-tattva is there. (break) The word should be nābheda sanātana.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Yaśodānandana: That your vision of seeing God...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we admit that, that when we see that "I am separate from..." Then the same example: If the finger thinks that it is separate from the body, that is ignorance, because the finger is required by the body to serve the body. So if he thinks, "No, I'll not serve you because I am different," that is ignorance. That is ignorance. That is going on. These Māyāvādīs, they refuse to serve God. That is ignorance. If they are part and parcel of God or one with God, how you can refuse to serve? That is ignorant. Here the finger is my part and parcel of the body. It cannot refuse to serve. I say; immediately it comes. So if the finger thinks that "I am one. Why shall I serve the whole body?" that is ignorance. Cetana. Cetana means activity. So if I am one with God, then my activities should be simultaneously with God. That is oneness. I don't disagree. God says, "You do it." I disagree. God says, "You surrender unto Me," but I refuse. That is ignorance. If I am actually one with God, just I am asking, "You do this"—you do immediately. But if you do not do it, that is ignorance. Gurur avajñā. Then he becomes aparādhī. Similarly, oneness means no disagreement. That is oneness, cetana. Cetana means I can disagree or agree. Two things are there. That is cetana. So cetana, cetanaś cetanānaṁ. So when God says that "You do it," you must do it. That is agreement. That is oneness. If you refuse, that is ignorance. How can you refuse? Suppose you.... Take the whole family, and the head of the families asks somebody to do something. If he refuses, then that is rebellious condition. In the state the citizen must agree with the government. Cetana. Cetana means he has got both the things. If he likes, he can agree; if he likes, he does not agree.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Anya, anya means anyathā. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyathā. Anyābhilāṣa. That is anyābhilāṣa. Anya means other, abhilāṣa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer. That... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, so you desire only how to serve Him. Why you are desiring otherwise? They will suffer. We are desiring, "I shall become God," "I shall become one with God," "I shall become this, I shall become..." So many hundreds and thousands. So that you have to stop. Because you are servant, you should desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural... Eh? Just like in your country the women, they are thinking of equal rights. Eh? And how you can equal rights? You have to become pregnant. So you become pregnant and take care of the child; that is your duty. In India still, you'll find they are happy. And now they are, "No, we shall be equal with the men." And how you'll stop your pregnancy? And that they do not think. So they're thinking that "We shall not be pregnant, and if we become pregnant we shall kill, and we shall have equal rights with the men." This is going on.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: And artha.

Prabhupāda: Dharma cannot be. Therefore Bhāgavata said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Dharmārtha-kāma-mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90)—these are all cheating. These are all cheating. Yes. Dharma means you become... Generally people go to temple to get some material gains: "O God, give us our daily bread." That is the idea. Dharma is to get some material profit. And why material profit? For sense gratification. Dharma, artha, kāma. And when he's baffled in sense gratification, he wants to become one with God, mokṣa. These are all cheating. Therefore Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). And Śrīdhara Swami says, atra mokṣa-vāñchām api nirastam. So long one is stuck up even up to mokṣa-vāñchā, he'll be.... He is in trouble. Therefore Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Beginning from dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), you give up everything. Then you'll become purified. Even if you have got mokṣa-vāñchā, then you are in the material world. Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Hṛdayānanda:

mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke

jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ

manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi

prakṛti-sthāni karṣati

(BG 15.7)

"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind." Purport. "In this verse the identity of the living being is clearly given. The living entity is a fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord-eternally. It is not that he assumes individuality in his conditional life and in his liberated state becomes one with the Supreme Lord. He is eternally fragmented. It is clearly said, sanātana. According to the Vedic version, the Supreme Lord manifests and expands Himself in innumerable expansions, of which the primary expansions are called Viṣṇu-tattva, and the secondary expansions are called the living entities. In other words, the Viṣṇu-tattva is the personal expansion, and the living entities are separated expansions. By His personal expansion, He is manifested in various forms like Lord Rāma, Nṛsiṁha-deva, Viṣṇumūrti and all the predominating Deities in the Vaikuṇṭha planets. The separated expansions, the living entities, are eternally servitors. The personal expansions of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the individual identities of the Godhead, are always present. Similarly, the separated expansions of living entities have their identities. As fragmental parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord, the living entities have also fragmental qualities, of which independence is one. Every living entity has an individual soul, his personal individuality and a minute form of independence. By misuse of that independence, one becomes a conditioned soul, and by proper use of independence he is always liberated. In either case, he is qualitatively eternal, as the Supreme Lord is. In his liberated state he is freed from this material condition, and he is under the engagement of transcendental service unto the Lord; in his conditioned life he is dominated by the material modes of nature, and he forgets the transcendental loving service of the Lord. As a result, he has to struggle very hard to maintain his existence in the material world. The living entities, not only the human beings and the cats and dogs, but even the greater controllers of the material world—Brahmā, Lord Śiva, and even Viṣṇu—are all parts and parcels of the Supreme Lord. They are all eternal, not temporary manifestations. The word karṣati (struggling or gappling hard) is very significant. The conditioned soul is bound up, as though shackled by iron chains. He is bound up by the false ego, and the mind is the chief agent which is driving him in this material existence. When the mind is in the mode of goodness, his activities are good."

Prabhupāda: Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). The struggle for existence—this word is used also among the philosophers. This is struggle. He is creating something by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses are engaged according to the dictation of the mind. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi. In this way, prakṛti-sthāni, within this material world, he's living a life of struggle for existence. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Karṣati means with hardship he's pulling on. Just like an animal yoked with cart, bull, with hardship he's pulling on, but he cannot get out of it. And if he slacks, immediately there is whip, he has to go. Therefore this word is used, karṣati. He doesn't like this, but he has to do it. Struggle for existence, survival of the fittest. (someone enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. The man may come.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmīs. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti. So because they are after bhukti, how there can be peace? He has to work very hard. And mukti, those who are jñānīs, they are trying to become one with God. So that is also very difficult. But still, there are so many sādhanas. That is also... But the desire is there. The karmīs are desiring to enjoy material world, and the jñānīs are desiring to become the supreme. That is also another desire. So bhukti mukti siddhi. Yogis, they are trying to achieve some mystic power. And if you attain some mystic power, without airplane if you can fly... The yogis can do that.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's it. So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gītā. You find it clear, na jāyate na mriyate, clearly said. Explain?

Hṛdayānanda: Purport? "Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the supreme spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady..."

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just bring little salt.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Rāmeśvara: Purport. "By practice of yoga one becomes gradually detached from material concepts. This is the primary characteristic of the yoga principle, and after this one becomes situated in trance, or samādhi, which means that the yogi realizes the Supersoul through transcendental mind and intelligence, without any of the misgivings of identifying the self with the Superself. Yoga practice is more or less based on the principles of the Patañjali system. Some unauthorized commentators try to identify the individual soul with the Supersoul, and the monists think this to be liberation. But they do not understand the real purpose of the Patañjali system of yoga. There is an acceptance of transcendental pleasure in the Patañjali system, but the monists do not accept this transcendental pleasure out of fear of jeopardizing the theory of oneness. The duality of knowledge and knower is not accepted by the nondualist, but in this verse transcendental pleasure realized through transcendental senses is accepted, and this is corroborated by the Patañjali Muni, the famous exponent of the yoga system. The great sage declares in his Yoga-sūtras: puruṣārtha-śūnyānāṁ guṇānāṁ pratiprasavaḥ kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This cit-śakti, or internal potency, is transcendental. Puruṣārtha means material religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and, at the end, the attempt to become one with the Supreme. This oneness with the Supreme is called kaivalyam by the monist. But according to Patañjali, this kaivalyam is an internal, or transcendental, potency by which the living entity becomes aware of his constitutional position. In the words of Lord Caitanya, this state of affairs is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), or clearance of the impure mirror of the mind. This clearance is actually liberation, or bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. The theory of nirvāṇa—also preliminary—corresponds with this principle. In the Bhāgavatam this is called svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). The Bhagavad-gītā also confirms this situation in this verse. After nirvāṇa, or material cessation, there is the manifestation of spiritual activities, or devotional service of the Lord, known as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In the words of the Bhāgavatam, svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ: this is the real life of the living entity. māyā, or illusion, is the condition of spiritual life contaminated by material infection. Liberation from this material infection does not mean destruction of the original, eternal position of the living entity. Patañjali also accepts this by his words kaivalyaṁ svarūpa-pratiṣṭhā vā citi-śaktir iti. This citi-śakti, or transcendental pleasure, is real life. This is confirmed in the Vedānta-sūtras as ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). This natural, transcendental pleasure is the ultimate goal of yoga and is easily achieved by execution of devotional service, or bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga will be vividly described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā." Should I keep reading Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Should I continue?

Prabhupāda: There is still there?

Rāmeśvara: There is another page.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: Equally disposed. As soon as he knows that I am not this body, I am spirit soul, then there is no distinction. Just like two American goes to India. So when they understand that "We are Americans," immediately their interest becomes one, although they are in the foreign country. That is psychology. Similarly, as soon as we come to the spiritual platform, there is no such distinction as black, white, Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Everything finished. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. You are reading the purport?

Jayādvaita: Purport: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta, oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinctions is there, in a higher spiritual sense. In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is loving Kṛṣṇa. And there is no such knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality.... Sometimes they see Kṛṣṇa's wonderful activities and they talk on: "Kṛṣṇa may be some demigod. He has come here." But they could never recognize that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Kṛṣṇa passed some dangerous position, so many demons were coming, mother Yaṣodā was chanting some mantras to protect Kṛṣṇa that "He may not be put into some calamity." They never understood that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality. But their natural love for Kṛṣṇa so intense. Therefore Vṛndāvana life is so exalted. Arādha... What is called? Arādhyo bhagavān vrajeṣa-tanāya tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that first of all Kṛṣṇa, Vrajendra-nandana, the son of Nanada Mahārāja, He is arādhya. Tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. And His dhāma, His abode, Vṛndāvana, is also worshipable. They are equal. Vṛndāvana-dhāma and Kṛṣṇa, they are equal. So these are higher standard of understanding. Unless one is devotee, purified, he cannot understand that to become one with God is not the sublime idea. In Vṛndāvana one who wants to become the father or mother of God, to control God, that these Māyāvādīs cannot understand, Advaitavādīs. This is to be understood by the pure devotion, devotees.

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Yes, Fourteenth Adhyāya. From brahmovaca, brahma-stuti.

Prabhupāda: Just stick to this principle, then you will be successful. Bhakti śreyaḥ śrutim. That is the real welfare. Śreyaḥ śrutim means "expands auspicity." (apparently talking about a picture) And they want to become one with God. And here is not one, but God is so lower that He carries the shoe of His devotee. Have they got any conception like this? (laughs)

Hari-śauri: They are always talking about...

Prabhupāda: There is a verse śruti mahāpure śruti mahāpure. You know this?

Pradyumna: Śruti apare?

Prabhupāda: Śruti mahāpure. (indistinct) yasya linde paraṁ brahma. "Let others worship the śrutis and others smṛtis, all these Vedic literature, and others Mahābhārata for liberation. But I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja, because in his courtyard the Param Brahmā is loitering. I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja. He's so powerful that he's made the Param Brahman come here and carry his shoes." Śruti mahāpure (indistinct) yasya linde paraṁ brahma.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The real constitutional position of the living entity is that of subordination to the Supreme Lord, who is pure knowledge. When one is deluded into separation from this pure knowledge, he becomes controlled by illusory energy and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The illusory energy is manifested in the duality of desire and hate. Due to desire and hate the ignorant person wants to become one with the Supreme Lord and envies Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Pure devotees, who are not so deluded or contaminated by desire and hate, can understand that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa appears by His internal potencies. But those who are deluded by duality and nescience think that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is created by material energies. This is their misfortune. Such deluded persons symptomatically dwell in dualities of dishonor and honor, misery and happiness, woman and man, good and bad, pleasure and pain, etc., thinking 'This is my wife, this is my house; I am the master of this house, I am the husband of this wife.' These are the dualities of delusion. Those who are so deluded by dualities are completely foolish and cannot understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: So even in the Vaikuṇṭha, if I desire that "Why shall I serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not become Kṛṣṇa?" I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, sometimes he may think that "If I could become the master." They are thinking like that, they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he's wrongly thinking.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Real meditation is to find out the Supersoul within the core of the heart. That is real meditation. God is situated in everyone's heart, so the yogis, they try to find out the Supersoul within the heart. That is real yogi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginam. This is real yogi, trying to contact the Supersoul. They are searching after the God in His all-pervading feature. But, ah, some of them, they want to become one. That is asuric. One with God, that is asuric. Because they are being defeated by God, so therefore they want to become God to stop this defeat. That is asuric. Therefore they will never be able to be, but they are trying for it.

Jñānagamya: It is the highest blasphemy.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jñānagamya: It is the highest blasphemy, isn't it? If one says, "I am God."

Prabhupāda: No, highest ignorance, highest rascaldom. (laughter) Yes. How one can become God? If one can become God, that means the such-and-such, he was God. Then how he has become dog? That is another rascaldom, ambition.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: So we say in the bhakti-mārga for eternally the Paramātmā and ātmā will remain separate, separate entities.

Prabhupāda: And that is always. You cannot become one with Him.

Indian man: Then in what levels the man got to remain in a separate entity? Always in the same bhakta?

Prabhupāda: Nitya-yuktā upāsate. The one is worshipable, another is worshiper. That's all. Nitya-yuktā upāsate. Upāsate means the worshipable is there and the worshiper is there. Then the question of upāsana. If they become one then where is upāsana?

Indian man: Yes, that's exactly what I'm telling. At one stage...

Prabhupāda: But that is not the fact. Here it is said upāsate. Upāsate means he worships. So if he loses his existence, then where is worship?

Indian man: No. Ātman's got to go on practicing and try to become pure and purer and purer.

Prabhupāda: Without being pure you cannot go there. There is no question of upāsana.

Evening Darsana -- September 1, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Go on, go on. I have given any purport?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many devotees who assume themselves to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and devotional service but at heart do not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, as the Absolute Truth. For them, the fruit of devotional service-going back to Godhead—will never be tasted. Similarly, those who are engaged in fruitive, pious activities and who are ultimately hoping to be liberated from this material entanglement will never be successful either because they deride the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. In other words, persons who mock Kṛṣṇa are to be understood to be demonic or atheistic. As described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, such demonic miscreants never surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore their mental speculations to arrive at the Absolute Truth bring them to the false conclusion that the ordinary living entity and Kṛṣṇa are one and the same. With such a false conviction, they think that the body of any human being is now simply covered by material nature and that as soon as one is liberated from this material body there is no difference between God and himself. This attempt to become one with Kṛṣṇa will be baffled because of delusion. Such atheistic and demoniac cultivation of spiritual knowledge is always futile. That is the indication of this verse. For such persons, cultivation of the knowledge in the Vedic literature, like the Vedānta-sūtra and the Upaniṣads, is always baffled.

It is a great offense, therefore, to consider Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, to be an ordinary man. Those who do so are certainly deluded because they cannot understand the eternal form of Kṛṣṇa. In the Bṛhad-vaiṣṇava mantra it is clearly stated that one who considers the body of Kṛṣṇa to be material should be driven out from all rituals and activities of the śruti. And if one by chance sees his face, he should at once take bath in the Ganges to rid himself of infection. People jeer at Kṛṣṇa because they are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Their destiny is certainly to take birth after birth in the species of atheistic and demoniac life. Perpetually, their real knowledge will remain under delusion, and gradually they will regress to the darkest region of creation.

Indian man (3): I was reading this yesterday, the Eleventh Chapter. There are twelve, twelve chapters. There Kṛṣṇa Bhagavān had a dialogue with Uddhava.

Pradyumna: He's referring to Ekādaśa-skandha of the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Uddhava.

Indian man (3): And there I felt, I thought that whenever we meet I'll bring up this question with you. 'Cause the way in which it has been translated in Hindi which I read it does create a little question as to what Bhagavān Himself said about the status of the soul, the individual soul, and relationship, (indistinct). Because although I think I should have got it, they don't give it to the life members.

Pradyumna: Yes, Bhāgavatam, we're up to the Seventh Canto now in the printing. Yes, the canto has come out. So Saptama-skandha, pādyokta. We're up to that.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Is there a purport?

Devotee (3): "A person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness certainly sees Lord Kṛṣṇa everywhere, and he sees everything in Kṛṣṇa. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material nature, but in each and every instance he is conscious of Kṛṣṇa, knowing that everything is the manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Nothing can exist without Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is the Lord of everything—this is the basic principle of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the development of love of Kṛṣṇa—a position transcendental even to material liberation. It is the stage beyond self-realization at which the devotee becomes one with Kṛṣṇa in the sense that Kṛṣṇa becomes everything for the devotee, and the devotee becomes full in loving Kṛṣṇa. An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. In that stage, the living entity attains his immortality. Nor is the Personality of Godhead ever out of the sight of the devotee. To merge in Kṛṣṇa is spiritual annihilation. A devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38)."

Prabhupāda: Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. He sees every moment.

Devotee (3): "Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpam..."

Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.

Devotee (3): " 'I worship the primeval Lord Govinda who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Śyāmasundara situated within the heart of the devotee.' At this stage Lord Kṛṣṇa never disappears from the sight of the devotee, nor does the devotee ever lose sight of the Lord. In the case of a yogi who sees the Lord as Paramātmā within the heart, the same applies. Such a yogi turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself."

Prabhupāda: You are seeing also Kṛṣṇa, but because you have no love, therefore you cannot appreciate how we are seeing. If you love some person you keep his photograph on the breast. Is it not? So you are seeing Kṛṣṇa in the temple, but because you have no love you think that "I am not seeing Him." That is the defect. They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they have sacrificed everything for worshiping Kṛṣṇa, for dressing Kṛṣṇa, for feeding Kṛṣṇa? They are seeing Kṛṣṇa. They are not wasting their time. But you have no love for Kṛṣṇa. You're thinking that "They have not seen Kṛṣṇa. They are worshiping an idol." That is the difference. One who loves somebody he keeps his picture on his chest.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Not supreme. He says this is of the person, different ways of thinking. But everywhere He is stressing bhakti. Just like generally people are karmī. Karmīs. They are working hard. And he has made his plan. He has made his plan that, "In this way, I shall be happy." So throughout the whole world, the beginning from animals, lower than the man, and then men, different types of men... So manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi, every one of them, he is planning or he is thinking in different ways. So the animals, they cannot understand the master's answer. But in the human being, they are according to the mind, mental concoction and planning, there are four classes of men. One class is called karmī. They are thinking that by working hard and trying to find out my own way of happiness, they will be happy. This is called karmī. Without any knowledge, they are simply working. They are actually like the animals. The animals, the dog, is jumping, a few miles he is jumping. He is thinking that "By jumping I shall be happy." Or for the time being he may happy by jumping. And sometimes thinking otherwise. So karmīs, they do not know what is the actual aim of life. Out of many millions of persons, mostly they are karmīs. They do not know what is the actual aim of life. But they are devising different plans, that I shall be happy in this way." This is called karmī. He does not take the standard way of happiness. Then the next elevated person is jñānī. He thinks, ponders, that "I have worked so hard, but still I could not become happy." The jñānī. He searches out philosophically. Then next class, yogi. Yogi concentrates the mind to think over, "What is my problem? Why I am not happy? How he can become happy?" He is trying to, very soberly, to understand. Yoga means controlling the senses, and the master of the senses is the mind. So he, trying to make the mind concentrated on the fact, he is yogi. And then the next stage is... If he is yogi, then there are different types of yoga system. But when he comes to the point that "I am not master. There is one master, controller. So master, whatever master orders, I have to execute that. That is my real happiness." Bhakta. So karmī, jñānī, yogi, and bhakta. So out of these four classes of men, the three classes means karmī, jñānī and yogi, they are restless. Because they actually did not find out what is the solution. One after another, there are different classes, there are classification. One is better than the other. That is another thing. But none of them... They are still misled. A karmī, he is thinking that "I am poor man. If I become rich man, I will be happy." He is thinking in that way. Jñānī is thinking that "Poor and rich doesn't matter. I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. If I merge into the Supreme Brahman I will be happy." Yogi is thinking that "The Absolute is present everywhere in His personal feature. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). So if I become one with Him, I will be happy." But still there is a demand, "If I become like this." So so long he is not self-realized, he will try to become something and so long he'll try to become something, then there will be restlessness. There cannot be happiness. And when he comes to the realization point that "Why I am trying to become something, I am this and this that is my position," then he becomes happy. That is bhakti. Everyone is trying to become something. And bhakta knows "I am this." There is no question of becoming. And this is my position. Very nice. Therefore Kṛṣṇa ultimately said that "This is the most confidential knowledge, Arjuna. I am teaching you so many things. There is no need of understanding so many things. The real thing is that I am the master, you are My servant. You surrender unto Me, that's all. Then you'll be happy."

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Some reason anyābhilāṣitā. He has got other purpose, not the purpose of preaching Bhagavad-gītā. That is called anyābhilāṣa. So people are infested with anyābhilāṣa, everyone. Therefore he is living this material life. But that should be zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That you have to... That is sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). If you have got other purposes within yourself, then you'll never understand Bhagavad-gītā. This is bhakti.

anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ

jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam

ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-

śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttama

(Brs. 1.1.11)

And Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). You cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. And this is bhakti, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). So they have got full of anyābhilāṣa, jñāna-karma, so they are not bhaktas; they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. They are talking nonsense. This is the position. Because they are not bhaktas-karmī, jñāni, yogi—they have got some purpose. Karmī is flatly that "We want this enjoyment." And jñānī, he says superficially that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The jagat is mithyā. So we don't want this jagat, but I want mukti, to become one with the Supreme." So that is also anyābhilāṣa. He does not know it. He's thinking that "I'm better than these karmīs. The karmīs have got anyābhilāṣa. So I have rejected that. Brahma-satya. I have taken to Brahman." But that is also anyābhilāṣa because he wants to become one with the Brahman. Subtle. And yogis, they also want mystic power to show magic. So he also anyābhilāṣitā-pūrṇa. So none of them are fit to understand Bhagavad-gītā. So Bhagavad-gītā will be understood by him who is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (Brs. 1.1.11). But none of these karmīs, jñānis, yogis, they are anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). They're anyābhilāṣitā-pūrṇam. They cannot understand Bhagavad-gītā. It is not possible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that "You are My very confidential friend. I am talking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Give up all this nonsense. You simply surrender." Guhyad guhyata—what is that? Find out. Guhyatamam. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me (BG 4.3).

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But if he's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he may rise up to that position by endeavor. Then he will fall down. And I have given this example, Nixon and Indira Gandhi. This is factual. To come to take the post of prime minister, to become the president, is not easy job. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, great hardship. Similarly, the Māyāvādīs, they also undergo severe austerities to become one with the Supreme, impersonalists. Any... I have given the... Karmī, jñānī, yogi, politicians, and everyone—everyone has got some aim. Many rich men, they commit suicide. So this is possi... This is the ultimate result of nondevotee. He may rise up by endeavor to certain position as he imagined, "This is the best position." Just like we are also trying to occupy the best position, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to live with devotees. We have got also some aim, and the nondevotees, they have also got aim. But the devotees will never fall down, while the nondevotee will fall down. And if devotee circumstantially, by chance, falls down—not like them-he'll be again picked up by Kṛṣṇa. This is the science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A devotee's position is certain. Now, take for example my position. For ordinary karmī to possess so many properties all over the world and so many other things, money and everything, if karmī had to do it, how much hardship he had to go. And actually they are doing. Is it possible for one's life to acquire so many?

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: More than. Prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa mattaḥ. Mattaḥ means mad, drunkard, and pramattaḥ means more than mad. So generally people, they have become mad after sense enjoyment. Everyone is busy for sense enjoyment. This is material life. And when they are fed up, no more available, so they become tyāgī-frustration that "Grapes are sour." The jackal jumped over to get the grapes, but when he could not obtain it, then he rejects, "Ah, what is use of the grapes? It is sour." So karmīs, they are pramattaḥ, mad after enjoying, and jñānīs, being fed up, they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "The world is useless." So this is going on. The karmīs, they want to enjoy this material world, and the jñānīs, they are little advanced. They are... They are fed up, rather. They want to enjoy by becoming one with the Supreme. So there is want. The karmīs want to enjoy this world, and the jñānīs want also. That is demand, mukti. Mukti means to become one with the Supreme Brahman. And the yogis, they want siddhi, aṣṭa-siddhi, aṇimā, laghimā, prāpti, īśitā... They also want. Therefore our Vaiṣṇava poet, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, he says, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta: "Those who are after something—either enjoyment of this material world or enjoyment of spiritually becoming one or to have some siddhis—they want something, so they cannot be happy." Because there is demand, "I want this." Maybe I want better thing than you, but I want. I am in need. So therefore those who are in need, they cannot be happy. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī sakali aśānta, kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma (CC Madhya 19.149). Kṛṣṇa-bhakta doesn't want anything. Ataeva śānta. So he is... He is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "I don't want. I am fully satisfied."

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda:

vāsudeve bhagavati

bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ

janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ

jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam

(SB 1.2.7)

In order to come to the position of that mahātmā, one has to render service to Vāsudeva. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jñāna-vairāgya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty āśu vairāgyam. Real life means vairāgya. Just like these boys known as hippies. They are trying for vairāgya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like, inclined to vairāgya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jñāna-vairāgya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairāgya. Is it not? That is also good. (Hindi) Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairāgya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Aiye. (Hindi) Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister. (Hindi with scattered English words) Practical application there are. (Hindi) (pause) (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with scattered English) Without bhakti, jñāna is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend... Ahaituky apratihatā. It cannot be checked. (Hindi) Bhagavān is within. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He assures... (Hindi) The so-called jñānī, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme-kāṅkṣati. When actually one is self-realized, na kāṅkṣati. Yogī kāṅkṣati. (Hindi) Bhagavān is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is selfishness. (Hindi) Then where is that picture? The gopīs are pushing Rādhārāṇī to Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Pradyumna: Translation: "The Blessed Lord said, One who is unattached to the fruits of his work and who works as he is obligated is in the renounced order of life, and he is the true mystic, not he who lights no fire and performs no work." Purport: "In this chapter the Lord explains that the process of the eightfold yoga system is a means to control the mind and the senses. However, this is very difficult for people in general to perform, especially in the age of Kali. Although the eightfold yoga system is recommended in this chapter, the Lord emphasizes that the process of karma-yoga, or acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is better. Everyone acts in this world to maintain his family and their paraphernalia, but no one is working without some self interest, some personal gratification, be it concentrated or extended. The criterion of perfection is to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and not with a view to enjoying the fruits of work. To act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the duty of every living entity because all are constitutionally parts and parcels of the Supreme. The parts of the body work for the satisfaction of the whole body. The limbs of the body do not act for self-satisfaction but for the satisfaction of the complete whole. Similarly, the living entity who acts for satisfaction of the supreme whole and not for personal satisfaction is the perfect sannyāsī, the perfect yogi. The sannyāsīs sometimes artificially think that they have become liberated from all material duty, and therefore they cease to perform agni-hotra yajñas, or fire sacrifices. But actually, they are self-interested because their goal is becoming one with the impersonal Brahman. Such a desire is greater than any material desire, but it is not without self-interest. Similarly, the mystic yogi who practices the yoga system with half-open eyes, ceasing all material activities, desires some satisfaction for his personal self, but a person acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness works for the satisfaction of the whole without self-interest. A Kṛṣṇa conscious person has no desire for self-satisfaction. His criterion of success is the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, and thus he is a perfect sannyāsī or perfect yogi. Lord Caitanya, the highest perfectional symbol of renunciation, prays in this way,

na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ

kavitāṁ vā jagadīśa kāmaye

mama janmani janmanīśvare

bhavatād bhaktir ahaitukī tvayi

(Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4)

"O Almighty Lord, I have no desire to accumulate wealth, nor to enjoy beautiful women, nor do I want any number of followers. What I want only is the causeless mercy of Your devotional service in my life birth after birth."

Prabhupāda: There is any inquiry about...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does anyone have any questions about this verse?

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everything you conceived, that is wrong. Yes. Therefore inconceivable.

Bhakti-prema: The Lord is inconceivable always and any (indistinct), it is inconceivable.

Prabhupāda: But we have to accept śāstra.

Bhakti-prema: This outer structure of the Lord is one with the Lord. It is inconceivable; it is not conceivable.

Prabhupāda: Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa. Acintya. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Acintya.

Bhakti-prema: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Give me that pineapple juice. (break)

Bhakti-prema: If it is inconceivable, then don't try to...

Prabhupāda: We are not lying to you.

Bhakti-prema: ...draw.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're drawing according to the Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: We're not conceiving it. It is already there.

Bhakti-prema: Then it is conceived, he says.

Prabhupāda: Conceived not by me.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are kavirājī or allopathic?

Sac-cid-ānanda: He also both using, kavirājī also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's both. He says can do either one with him. You can take allopathic or kavirāja. He gives both. Whatever the patient likes. Right?

Sac-cid-ānanda: He is making some kavirāja also medicines.

Prabhupāda: His father practices haikin.(?) And the son practices...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Allopathic. I think we're letting ourselves in for trouble when we call these doctors.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My personal opinion is that when you call these doctors, you're simply letting..., we are simply letting ourselves in for more trouble, because they're not going to study the case very carefully. They're just going to start prescribing. Your case is so delicate that the slightest wrong diagnosis and medicine causes havoc.

Prabhupāda: No, they have good practice.