Caṇḍālas means pañcama. Untouchable. They are called untouchable. So even the untouchables... Because Kṛṣṇa has said: Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). The pāpa-yoni, caṇḍāla means pāpa-yoni, born of low-grade family... The Bhāgavata says, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says, that: Kirāta-hūnāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanā khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). Yavana, mlecca yavana. They, they are called... They are also counted amongst the caṇḍālas. Ye 'nye ca pāpāḥ, even lower than that. Ye 'nye ca pāpāḥ śuddhyanti. They becomes purified. How? Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. When they are initiated to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So if a, one may argue, "How it is possible to make a caṇḍāla a Vaiṣṇava?" No, that is possible. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Viṣṇu is so powerful, omnipotent. He can do that. So only by Viṣṇu mantra, by becoming a Vaiṣṇava, one can transcend all this restriction, sociology. They can be. That is confirmed by Kṛṣṇa: māṁ cāvyabhicāriṇī bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate sa guṇān brahmātītyaitan brahma-bhūyaya kalpate (BG 14.26). Immediately he transcends. He's in the Brahman platform. One who has taken very seriously this devotional service, he's no more on this material platform. So long we are in the material platform, these distinction, brāhmaṇa, ksatriya, vaiśya, varṇa-saṅkara, they are considered. But when one is transcendentally situated, simply in pure, unalloyed service of the Lord, he's no more in the material platform. He's in the spiritual platform.
One may argue (Lect., Conv., & Letters)
Expressions researched:
"It may be argued"
|"It may be then argued"
|"One may also argue"
|"One may argue"
|"One may then argue"
|"may argue"
|"might argue"
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
Devotee: "The Māyāvādī may argue that the individuality spoken of by Kṛṣṇa is not spiritual but material. Even accepting the argument that the individuality is material, how can one distinguish Kṛṣṇa's individuality?"
Prabhupāda: They also think of Kṛṣṇa, therefore, as material. That is also condemned by Kṛṣṇa. You'll find, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). "Because I have appeared just like a human being, these rascals deride at Me that I am also one of them." Mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal. Just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa... It is the soul within the Kṛṣṇa." That means he identifies Kṛṣṇa as one of us. His body and His soul different. But Kṛṣṇa is not... Kṛṣṇa said, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). "I appear in My own, original stature. I do not change." We change. The individual soul... Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). He's conducted by, influenced by this prakṛti, nature, but He's not conducted or influenced by the nature. He comes in His own influence, as He is, ātma-māyayā. This is the distinction. Therefore He does not change body. When I come, I change bodies. This time I may have this body; next time I may have another body. That is material, and therefore I forget. Just like Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter that "Many times you and I came. You have forgotten (BG 4.5)." Because we change our material body therefore we forget. These things all will be explained.
Just like our conception of eating, that we can eat through the mouth. Whatever eatables are offered to us, we pick them and put into the mouth. We know this is the process of eating. But Kṛṣṇa, because He is acintya-guṇa-svarūpam, His eating process is different from ours. That is also stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. He has the limbs of the body, different limbs of the body, they can work also for other limbs of the body. Just like with our eyes we can see. If I close our eyes, we do not see. But Kṛṣṇa, even He closes His eyes, He can see everything with His hand. Now, this is inconceivable. Acintya-guṇa-svarūpam. Therefore it is called acintya. Aṅgāni yasya sakalendriya-vṛttimanti. So the foodstuff is offered there to Kṛṣṇa. He is eating by seeing. He can eat through His eyes. Just like we can eat through our mouth, not with our eyes, but Kṛṣṇa can eat through His eyes simply by seeing. Then you may argue that "The foodstuff is offered. If He has eaten, why it is lying as it is, as it was offered in the beginning?" That is answered in the Upaniṣad. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation). Pūrṇasya. Kṛṣṇa can take the whole plate, but still the whole plate remains. It is not finished. That is spirituality. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate.
We are also born brother and sister. But human society does not allow sex between brother and sister. Still formality is there. But that is also going on. Human life has advanced. That is going on. In India one Punjabi, that father was anxious to get the daughter married, and the brother wrote the father, "My dear father, don't bother about my sister's marriage. We have arranged ourself, brother and sister." You see? So sex life is so strong. Although socially it is forbidden that brother and sister should not marry or should not have sex life, but that is also come. It is Kali-yuga. So that sex life facility is there automatically by nature. So why there is forbidden, "Not this sex life, not that..." Just like we forbid, no illicit sex, that without marriage, there is no sex. One may argue, "What is the difference, married sex and not-married sex? The business is the same."
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So one may argue that "These bhaktas are not always very learned scholars. Mostly, they are mediocre. And there are so many big, big scholars. They cannot see God easily and only the bhaktas can do?" Yes. That is the process. Kṛṣṇa says, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. In bhakti, one can immediately... Because real process is to surrender to God. That is the real process. But these jñānīs, yogis, and karmīs, they are not prepared to surrender to God. The karmīs will say, "Let us act nicely," I mean to say, "virtuously. We are karmīs. So God must give us the result." This is called karma-mimāṁsā. They say that... Just like the so-called scientists say that "God has created this universe. The laws are there. So we have to study the laws. What we shall do with the God?" Is it not? "God has created these... The physical laws are there. So let us study these physical laws. What is the use of studying God?" That is their view. The karma-mimāṁsā also, that, they say that "After all, if we act virtuously, then we shall get good result. So what is the use of worshiping God? Let us work virtuously." This is their view. Karmī. And jñānī. Jñānī also, they say. Jñānī, the scientists, they are jñānī, that "What is the use of worshiping God? Let us study the laws of God." So jñānī, karmī... And yogi, they are also of the same view.
Pradyumna: "So this is a finer military science than that of the gross military military weapons used nowadays. Arjuna was taught all this, and therefore Draupadī wished that Arjuna feel obliged to Ācārya Droṇa for all these benefits. And in the absence of Droṇācārya, his son was the representative. That was the opinion of the good lady Draupadī. It may be argued why Droṇācārya, a rigid brāhmaṇa, should be a teacher in military science. But the reply is that a brāhmaṇa should become a teacher, regardless of what his department of knowledge is. A learned brāhmaṇa should become a teacher, a priest and a recipient of charity. A bona fide brāhmaṇa is authorized to accept such professions."
Prabhupāda: So there is nothing especial to be explained. The only important part of this verse is, that don't learn guru-māra-vidyā. Even if you become more learned that your guru, you should not exhibit it before your guru. You should always remain a fool number one. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed Himself by His example. Guru more mūrkha dekhi 'karila śāsana (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not mūrkha, but He has taught us that before guru, we shall always remain a mūrkha. That is advancement. Not that "I know more than guru. I don't care for guru. Now give me blessing that I can find out some better guru." This nonsense, if you don't find... If your guru is not perfect, then why you are asking blessing to find out another?
So there were some literary imperfection, and Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu pointed out, and He was also learned scholar. He admitted that "He is a wonderful boy." So therefore it is said that "You make your enemy a learned man, but don't make your friend a fool and rascal." Because an enemy, even though he is enemy, if he is learned, he will not make injustice. That he cannot. Any learned scholar cannot make any injustice. So he admitted his defeat, because he is learned scholar. That is scholarship. Not that... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. He argued with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as a scholar. But when he became defeated, he accepted His discipleship. This was the method, that two persons may argue, but one who is defeated, he must become his disciple. Not that simply waste time arguing and no conclusion. Formerly this was the system, to come to a conclusion. If two parties are arguing on a subject matter, the one party will be defeated, he must become his disciple, under control.
So in the previous verse Ṛṣabhadeva has said that this madness after sense gratification, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute, and doing all kinds of sinful activities, this is not good. And actually we can see... (aside:) No, I daily say that during talking you should not cut, cut. So one may argue, especially those who are atheists, that "Suppose we get a material body and little miserable. What is the wrong there? It will be finished. Then there will be no more pains and pleasures." That is the Buddhist theory, that the body is combination of matter, and there is pains and pleasures, so make this body zero. Then there will be no more pains and pleasures, and you will have to accept another body. And so long you shall continue to accept one body after another, the miserable condition of material existence will continue. Therefore in the beginning it was said that "This body, human body, is not to be misused simply for sense gratification like the dogs and hogs." That was the beginning.
We have several times explained this, who is bona fide spiritual master, confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that āmāra ājñāya guru hañā, "You become a guru on My instruction." So those who are affiliated with Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, he is guru. Not anyone else. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Then one may argue that if Caitanya Mahāprabhu is ordering, so anyone can order? No, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not ordering something new. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "Under My instruction you become guru." But the instruction is Kṛṣṇa's, the same instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also does not deviate from kṛṣṇa-upadeśa, what to speak of others. And those rascals who are deviating from the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, how he can become guru? They are interpreting in a different way, how they can become guru? That is not guru. We should simply remember this fact, whether this person is speaking the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, as Rāmānujācārya says, even Śaṅkarācārya.
This is bhakti. Bhakti means ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam. You have to cultivate Kṛṣṇa consciousness as it pleases Kṛṣṇa, not whimsically. Ānukūlyena. Just like Arjuna got ordered directly from Kṛṣṇa. One may argue that "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" No, you have got Kṛṣṇa's representative, guru. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. The representative is there. If you act according to his instruction, if you want to please him, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. Just like in office the managing director or the proprietor is not in contact. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is in contact with everyone: īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe (BG 18.61). But even taking this crude example, still, the office superintendent, if he recommends somebody, some clerk, that "This man is working very nice," that is accepted by the managing director. There is no difficulty. Therefore yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo: ** if you want to please Kṛṣṇa, you please Kṛṣṇa's representative... Śrī-guru-caraṇe rati, sei se uttama-gati. We are singing daily. So Kṛṣṇa is not absent. Kṛṣṇa is already within you, but He manifests Himself as guru, prakāśa. This is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
So Veda, here it is said that vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. But Nārāyaṇa is nothing of this material world. Similarly, Veda is nothing of this material world. Vedo nārāyaṇaḥ sākṣāt. So you cannot... Therefore Vedic authority is so evidential... Because it is not manufactured by any material person. It is... Nārāyaṇa, or God God created this world. So God was existing before this creation, and Veda means before the creation, the laws and the words which were existing, that is Veda. Somebody may argue that "This is written by some scholar or some learned person." No, Veda is not like that. Veda is coming directly from Nārāyaṇa, and Nārāyaṇa means God. God was existing before the creation. Because God created, therefore God existed before the creation, so whatever we get out of this created world, that is not Veda. If some person, great philosopher of this material world, he thinks, he says "I believe," and he writes something, that is nonsense. That is not Veda. Because he is a created being, and as created being he has got four defects. The most important defect is that his senses are imperfect.
If one can understand nitya-siddha bhāgavata, then he immediately becomes eligible to go back to home, to back to godhead. This is the privilege of associating with mahā-bhāgavata. So our system is, (child crying—aside:) try and maintain (?). Evaṁ paramparā, to associate with the mahā-bhāgavata by words or by physical exposition (?). So mahā-bhāgavata arbhakaḥ. One may argue, arbhakaḥ means foolish child, who has no knowledge, he is called arbhakaḥ. How we can say mahā-bhāgavata? Arbhakaḥ, he has no knowledge. No. It is possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. Bhakti does not depend on age, or on advanced knowledge, or richness, or so many other things. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī (SB 1.8.26). To take birth in high family, aristocracy, and to become rich, to become beautiful, to become very learned scholar. These things are material assets, but spiritual life does not depend on these things. One can become spiritually very advanced even though he is poor, he is born in a low, low-grade family.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So one may argue, "Does it mean that all the bhaktas... We see they are not even educated... How he has realized Brahman?" That answer is given in the Bhagavad-gītā that
- māṁ ca avyabhicāriṇi
- bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate
- sa guṇān samatītyaitān
- brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
- (BG 14.26)
This very platform of serving Kṛṣṇa, avyabhicāriṇi, without any adulteration, means without any motive... When one is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service without any motive... Not that "I establish a Deity in the temple with a motive that people will come, will give money, and I shall make it a path of earning my livelihood." That is not devotion. Devotion is without any motive. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). So without any motive, when one is engaged in devotional service, that is brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. That is liberated stage. According to Bhāgavata, liberation, mukti, means to be situated in one's constitutional position. That is called mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Hitvā anyathā rūpa.
So they are also becoming interested, hūṇa, āndhra and others who are considered to be low-born according to Vedic civilization. But still, the Vedic civilization does not prohibit anyone to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By our karma, we may be high born or low born. That does not matter. Ahaituky apratihatā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be checked by any material impediment. That is not possible. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is natural. And Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). He says that even though some people are considered to be pāpa-yoni, low-born, it doesn't matter, but he can accept the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanaḥ khasādayaḥ, ye 'nye ca pāpā. Still more low-born than these people, śudhyanti, they can be purified if they actually take shelter of a pure devotee. They can be purified. That is the injunction of the śāstras, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śudhyanti. People may argue how such low-born people can be purified. That reply is: prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. It is the supreme power of Lord Viṣṇu. It is possible.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). So generally people are addicted, infected with the qualities of ignorance and passion. How he can understand Kṛṣṇa? It is not possible. So one has to engage himself this devotional service. Then you can... You may argue that "How these Europeans and Americans...? They are supposed to be in ignorance and passion. How they are coming to the platform of transcendental platform of pure goodness?" That is possible. That is possible by the execution of Bhāgavata-dharma. Nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā (SB 1.2.18). Tato rajas-tamo bhāvāḥ. There are verses in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). One has to hear. Therefore śravaṇa and kīrtana, hearing and chanting, is very important, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ, especially hearing and chanting of Kṛṣṇa.
Now people may argue that in the creation we find Brahmā the first-born living creature, and he has given us the Vedic knowledge. So this, in the creation, because he's the first living creature, then he is svarāṭ. He is also independent. Why God is independent? This living creature, he's first-born. He's independent. Otherwise, how could he give the knowledge of Vedas? So the reply is tene brahma hṛdā. No. He's also dependent. He got the knowledge from the Supreme Lord. How is that? He's the first-born living creature. How he got knowledge from God? Tene brahma hṛdā. Brahmā, the Vedic knowledge, was imparted into the heart of Brahmā. Why? Because God is situated within everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). These things are very nicely described in Bhāgavatam in the beginning. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. Ādi-kavaye means Brahma. Kavi means the learned. Kavinaṁ purāṇam anuśāsitāram. In the Bhagavad-gītā. He's the kavinaṁ purāṇam. He's the oldest learned man. Oldest. Purāṇam. Purāṇam means oldest. Then why God is not recognized? Now muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ.
So our duty is to serve God. There is no other duty. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching, that "You have no other duty, anything. That is all false illusion. If you have selected any other duty than to serve Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you are foolish. You are doing something wrong, which is not for your interest." This is the teaching of Lord Caitanya and the Bhāgavata also. So if somebody may argue, "Oh, if I completely engage myself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, then what to do? How I shall live in this material world? Who will take care of my maintenance?" that is our foolishness. If you serve an ordinary person here, you get your maintenance; you get your wages, dollars. You are so foolish that you are going to serve Kṛṣṇa and He is not going to maintain you? Yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I personally take charge of his maintenance." Why don't you believe it? Practically you can see. That means faithlessness.
Festival Lectures
So śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Scriptures are different. Arguments, that is also not helpful. One man may argue better than me. Then philosophy. The philosophy, it is said, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. One philosopher is differing from another philosopher. Just now today Śyāmasundara has purchased one book about different philosophers. So that you also cannot ascertain what is truth. Therefore śāstra says, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. The truth is very confidential. So if you want to know that truth, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186), you should have to follow the great ācāryas. Then you will understand. Therefore ācārya-upāsanā is essential. Ācārya-upāsanā is very essential. In all the Vedic śāstras the injunction is that. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Tasmād gurum prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). Anyone who is inquisitive to understand higher truths, he must surrender to guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta, jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. One who is inquisitive, who is now inquiring about transcendental subject matter. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). So all the śāstras says, in our Vaiṣṇava śāstra also, Rūpa Gosvāmī says, ādau gurv-āśrayam: "In the first beginning, you must take shelter of a bona fide guru."
Actually, he was minister. He was coming of a brāhmaṇa family. But these material qualifications are not sufficient to improve one's Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is being exhibited by Sanātana Gosvāmī. He's approaching the original spiritual master, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, with due humbleness. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta (SB 11.3.21). Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit-pāṇi śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). One must approach. Sanātana Gosvāmī's teaching us the Vaiṣṇava principle that one should approach a proper spiritual master. So he's approaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So one may argue that "Where is Caitanya Mahāprabhu now? Where is Kṛṣṇa now?" It doesn't matter. Kṛṣṇa's words are there. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's words are there. Instructions are there. So if we follow the direction and instruction of Caitanya Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of a superior, bona fide spiritual master, then we associate with Kṛṣṇa or Caitanya Mahāprabhu without any deviation.
Initiation Lectures
Two, two examples are given. One may argue, "Suppose I am watering. That is also nice. I water to the root, I water to the leaf also." The injunction is that there is no necessity of watering the leaves. You simply water the root. But if you argue that "What is the harm...? Suppose I... Root, offer water to the root, as well as to the leaves and twigs." Just like somebody says, "All right. Why we shall only worship Kṛṣṇa? Why not other demigods?" although it is not necessary. But the next example is given that, prāṇopahārāc ca yathendriyāṇām. Just like offering foodstuff to the stomach, the senses automatically become healthy, then now, if you say, in the same way... Just like offering to the root as well as to the leaves, that "Yes, I shall offer foodstuff to the stomach as well as to the ears and eyes." Then what the result will be? The result will be that your eyes and ears will be stopped functioning. Therefore this very example is given. This, this is not required at all. Similarly, by worshiping Kṛṣṇa, you don't require to endeavor to worship the demigods, to worship the daridras, to worship the this and that. It will be automatically done.
General Lectures
So our process of knowledge very easy. Kṛṣṇa's book, Bhagavad-gītā, is the knowledge, book of knowledge which is given by the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. You may argue that "You have accepted Him as a perfect person, but we do not." You may not. But He is perfect person on the evidence of many authorities. It is not by my whims I accept Kṛṣṇa as the perfect person. No. There are many authorities, Vedic authorities. Formerly... Just like Vyāsadeva. He's the author of all Vedic literature, the treasure-house of knowledge, Vedas. He accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His spiritual master, Nārada, he accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. His spiritual master, Brahmā, he accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Person. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1), Brahmā says. "The supreme controller is Kṛṣṇa." Īśvara. Īśvara means controller. We are controller, everyone. Nobody can say that "I am without controller." No, that is not possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What they will argue perhaps, materialists may argue that "We can see that Sarasvatī is changing from the time she was a little girl and now she is a little older, we have seen her both times, but at the time of death we have not seen the next body of anyone.
Prabhupāda: But why do you believe so much your rascal eyes? That is the answer. Do you think that your eyes are perfect? There are many types of seeing. Not that simply with glaring eyesight you can see. You can see what is Sarasvatī , you are seeing the body. What is Sarasvatī, do you know? So what you are seeing? You are seeing the body. So what is the power of your seeing? There is another body, sukavādī (?), subtle body. Can you see the mind? But everyone has got mind. Can you see intelligence? But everyone has got intelligence. So what is the power of your seeing? Why you are so much proud of your seeing, nonsense seeing?
Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is preaching. Just like... Nava-vidhā-bhakti.
- śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ
- smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam
- arcanaṁ vandanaṁ dāsyaṁ
- sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
- (SB 7.5.23)
They're all perfect, but it appears śravaṇa, hearing, is different from kīrtana. Or kīrtana is different from smaraṇam or pāda-sevanam or arcanam. But they're all perfect. So one should be engaged either in śravaṇam, kīrtanam, smaraṇam—as he's fit. This is the... Suppose I cannot speak, kīrtanam, but I can hear. That is as perfect. Ah? Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. So one may argue that "Speaking is better than hearing." No. Both ways, either hearing or speaking, they're the same thing. Because it is for Kṛṣṇa. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ. In our society every work is transcendental: for preaching. Every work. But one must be engaged with some work.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yaśodānandana: It seems that the English culture has conquered over the Indian culture then.
Prabhupāda: No, Indian culture is still going on. It is not lost. Otherwise how it is going to your country and bringing you? (laughter)
Ravīndra-svarūpa: A person might argue that the Indians weren't satisfied either; otherwise they wouldn't have taken up the English culture. So what's the difference?
Prabhupāda: No. When you are standing on two boats you'll never be satisfied. It is very dangerous position, you know? Two boats, on the river, and if you put one leg here, one leg here, it is always troublesome. Either you give up this or give up that. Then your position will be safe. But India's position is like that. Two boats, he is standing, and he is troubled.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The English taught devotional service to England. The English were teaching devotional service to England.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were saying that all the scientists are fools and rascals but they may challenge, "How has your knowledge benefited you?"
Prabhupāda: Your knowledge has not benefited you. Our taking your so-called science has benefited you because you are using it for Kṛṣṇa. You have worked so hard, so result is going to Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are making the best... (indistinct) ...there is chair but we don't care for the chair. We can sit down. But if it is available we don't reject it. Therefore (indistinct) ...you have made a chair and (indistinct) ...Not that I require your chair, without your chair I will, shall die. That is not my policy. You rascal, you have done something, I'm using it for your benefit. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may argue that the knowledge which you say you have, it doesn't stop all of these things from happening to you. You're also suffering from symptoms of...
Prabhupāda: Yes. But I'm trying because I have got this material body like you, so I have to suffer like you. But I'm making treatment. You are not making treatment.
Prabhupāda: They are already exposed because they have left that expedition. That means they are hopeless. That is exposed. But foolish people will not ask them that "Why you have stopped this expedition?" They will again go on bluffing, and they will accept. That is the position. Now people should ask them, "Why you have stopped moon expedition and Venus expedition? You proposed you were going there, making arrangement. Why you have stopped?" It is failure.
Harikeśa: They might argue...
Prabhupāda: What is the argument? You have stopped. That is your failure, that's all. You can argue to the laymen, foolish men, but we will say you have stopped; therefore it is failure. All bogus propaganda is now stopped.
Devotee (3): They are saying the moon isn't worth develop...
Prabhupāda: Now they cannot say anything because they are failure. Anything they say, that is all foolishness. They cannot say anything. Once you are failure, you have no value, anything you say.
Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Śraddhā, faith, means believing firmly. That is śraddhā, or faith. There is no question, "Yes." Śraddha-śabde viśvāsa. Therefore we have to believe in the Vedas. Vedas also says like that. That example I give sometimes, that cow dung is stool. In one place it is said stool is impure; in another place it is said cow dung is pure. Now, one may argue, "What is this, contradiction?" But you have to believe it. That is Veda. And that is actually being done. So without faith, you cannot make advance. The skeptics, they have no faith. Therefore they are lost. You must have faith.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? What is that ingredient or what is that thing which causes faith to develop in one? From someone becoming...
Prabhupāda: Purity. Purity. The more you become pure, the faith is firm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But still we see, the Vaiṣṇavas... They may argue like this, that... A karmī may say that "Still, how do we know that you have conquered over death, because you're still..."
Prabhupāda: You cannot know. Because you are foolish, you cannot know. Just like the example is given: there is reel. You know? What is called? The children...
Paramahaṁsa: Swing?
Jayatīrtha: Ferris wheel?
Prabhupāda: No, no. In your country there is not, but in India there is a reel, reel-like. It rounds the thread for flying kite. What is called?
Kṛṣṇa-kanti: Just a ball of string.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Spool.
Paramahaṁsa: Kite line.
Prabhupāda: Kite line? How it is?
Paramahaṁsa: How it is? It's a line for a kite, and it's wound upon on a stick, and to make the kite go higher you unleash...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is going on. Sometimes the kite is going on, it is also rounding. And when the kite is coming down, that is also rounding. But you see one thing. But one thing is coming down; one is going up.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People may argue though that without education we can't even read the knowledge that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is speaking. How to read Bengali or Sanskrit or English or anything like this?
Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating. But we are being educated, being cheated. We are working for this body, which I am not. Is that education or it is cheating? If you say, "I am taking my interest," I'll say "I am taking water; I wash daily my shirt and coat." And that, is that knowledge? And what about you? Your food? "I don't care for that. I wash my coat and shirt daily." Is that education? You keep yourself starving and you keep your coat and shirt very cleanse. Is that education? This is going on. Therefore people are restless. He is hungry. What he will do, his cars and this shirt and coat and big building? Why they are committing suicide? Because he is not happy. There is no food for the spirit soul, what he is actually. Is that education? That is not education. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura is right when he says, jība ke karaye gādhā: "This material education means making people more and more asses." That's all. He is already ass because he's in this material world, and the so-called material education means keeping him in that condition more and more.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Mahamsa: Who is a fool, that is defined in the other verse, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... That one who considers Kṛṣṇa as ordinary human being, he is mūḍha. So read the purport.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible by everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually, He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the assembly of Kurus, when Śiśupāla spoke against Kṛṣṇa being elected president of the assembly, Bhīṣma supported Him and proclaimed Him to be the Supreme God. Similarly, the Pāṇḍavas and a few others..."
Prabhupāda: Sisupala could not see, although Kṛṣṇa was present there, but Bhisma could see. So you require special eyes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām (BG 10.10).
Prabhupāda: Yes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ... (Bs. 5.38). So unless you are qualified, how you can see Kṛṣṇa? This is the point. Kṛṣṇa is there, and the rascal Śiśupāla could not see Him, but Bhisma could see Him. So they say, "Can you show me God?" Even God comes before you, unless you have got the qualified eyes you cannot see Him. Therefore qualification required. Premāñjana-cchurita. When your eyes will be anointed with, what is called?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Salve of love.
Pañca-draviḍa: But cows aren't all eating wheat grass.
Prabhupāda: Cows are eating grass, dry grass, and giving you nice milk. Now, if you eat it—"There is vitamins. Let me eat"—you'll die. So who made this arrangement?
Guru-kṛpā: They may argue, though, that even women give milk after there's baby, and they eat all sorts of things.
Prabhupāda: They eat grass?
Guru-kṛpā: They eat meat. They eat fish. They are making milk also.
Prabhupāda: Milk is there, but it is not that it is due to eating such and such.
Pañca-draviḍa: Yeah, that doesn't prove anything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Milk is there.
Lokanātha: They did not take that to mean the constitutional position of the living entity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not know. Therefore they are less intelligent. They are individual, but artificially they are thinking, "I shall become one."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the karmīs may argue that to become desireless is against the natural order. Because we see that right from the beginning of our life we're desiring so many things.
Prabhupāda: Desireless. When he will desire less, you convince. They're always desiring.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then where is desireless?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But we're saying anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11).
Prabhupāda: Anya, anya means anyathā. You are servant, you should always desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural. And if you don't want to serve, that is anyathā. Anyābhilāṣa. That is anyābhilāṣa. Anya means other, abhilāṣa means desire. So everyone has got desire, but that desire should be natural, according to position. But if you desire something else, nonsense, then you suffer. That... Caitanya Mahāprabhu said jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). You are eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, so you desire only how to serve Him. Why you are desiring otherwise? They will suffer. We are desiring, "I shall become God," "I shall become one with God," "I shall become this, I shall become..." So many hundreds and thousands. So that you have to stop. Because you are servant, you should desire how to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your natural... Eh? Just like in your country the women, they are thinking of equal rights. Eh? And how you can equal rights? You have to become pregnant. So you become pregnant and take care of the child; that is your duty. In India still, you'll find they are happy. And now they are, "No, we shall be equal with the men." And how you'll stop your pregnancy? And that they do not think. So they're thinking that "We shall not be pregnant, and if we become pregnant we shall kill, and we shall have equal rights with the men." This is going on.
Prabhupāda: Na jāyate na mriyate vā. That is the distinction between matter and soul.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They counter that if God is all-powerful, He can do anything. So why not He can create a soul and that soul can then be eternal from that point?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian may argue that God is all-powerful, so God has created the soul, and from that point the soul is eternal.
Prabhupāda: Soul is eternal, we admit.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But only from that point, not in the past.
Prabhupāda: Not in the past?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, because according to Biblical philosophy you only have one lifetime in this world.
Prabhupāda: Then who goes to heaven?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Persons who adopt the principles.
Prabhupāda: And if one life, then who goes to heaven and who goes to hell?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very few go to heaven.
Prabhupāda: Fresh, by cleaning the urine? Now they are doing that. Fresh water by cleaning urine. Fat derived from stool. Yes, German people did it. Fat extracted from stool. Scientifically. You can use it with butter very nicely on your bread. This is going on.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of the materialists may argue that these activities are not all that unbeneficial. For example, they have made a tractor, and in America they can produce so many grains, so much so that practically they could feed the world.
Prabhupāda: Why do they not?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Because their mentality is very abominable.
Prabhupāda: Do that. There are so many overpopulation, and you can do it in America. So much land lying vacant here.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Better to put the people in factories in the fields. If they are going to work, let them work growing grain and milking the cows.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then they will live very happily. That will not do. Jagato 'hitāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are inconceivable, do not try to understand by argument. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. So our process, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is to take knowledge from the authority. Unless we take knowledge from the authority, however we may go on arguing, we cannot come to the conclusion. The modern scientists, philosophers, they are arguing, but they do not come to the conclusion. If you want to take conclusion... Just like two lawyers are arguing in the court, but the conclusion is given by the authority, the judge. That one has to accept. So we take authority, the Bhagavad-gītā or Kṛṣṇa. He is accepted authority by all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in the śāstra also, Vyāsadeva, Nārada, Devala, Asita. So our authority is confirmed. So if we take conclusion from the authority, then we benefit. Otherwise, with our limited knowledge, if we go on arguing, then we cannot understand the conclusion. That is not possible. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. By argument we cannot come to the conclusion. I can argue, and you can argue, but you may argue more than me. Another person can argue more than you. In this way, you do not come to the conclusion. And śrutayo vibhinnā. So far scriptures are concerned, there are also different scriptures. Nāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And a philosopher is not a philosopher if he does not agree with others, if he does not agree other philosophers. So in this way, you are perplexed.
Prabhupāda: Food, that is punishment. It is not the... Famine is punishment from the side of nature. She'll not supply to the rākṣasas. That is a punishment. Otherwise, there is no question of population. You may have as many... Just like the birds and beasts. They do not care for... They have got enough food. But they do not violate the laws of the nature.
Harikeśa: One may argue that in nature there is this leveling out of the species, that one species kills another off so that the population is maintained at the proper level.
Prabhupāda: No species killed by another species. It is rascal proposal.
Harikeśa: Well, members of the species are killed by...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Jīvasya jīva... jivo jīvanam. One animal is eating another animal. That is another thing. But that does not mean species finished. That is nonsense.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Hari-śauri: "It may be argued that since Kṛṣṇa was present on this earth and was visible to everyone, then why isn't He manifest to everyone now? But actually He was not manifest to everyone. When Kṛṣṇa was present there were only a few people who could understand Him to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)
Prabhupāda: If one understands, then he becomes immediately liberated. And the atheists, they cannot understand, so they remain always conditioned. If actually one understands Kṛṣṇa's, he's liberated immediately. He's simply waiting for changing this body. That's all. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). One who has understood Kṛṣṇa is liberated. Jīvan muktaḥ sa ucyate: "Even in this life he is mukta." Find out that, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ. "You rascal, if you could understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediately you would have been liberated. And if you were liberated, then you would not ask this question. You do not know Kṛṣṇa, neither it is possible for you to understand Kṛṣṇa. You remain in darkness."
Prabhupāda: This is described in the śāstra. If one hears of the Yadu-vaṁśa, he becomes purified. And Kṛṣṇa is addressed, Yadupati. Then?
Hari-śauri: "Having taken birth in that family, how could Kṛṣṇa have been induced even by the gopīs? It is concluded therefore that it was not possible for Kṛṣṇa to do anything abominable. But Mahārāja Parīkṣit was in doubt as to why Kṛṣṇa acted in that way. What was the real purpose? Another word Mahārāja Parīkṣit used when he addressed Śukadeva Gosvāmī is suvrata, which means to take a vow to enact pious activities. Śukadeva Gosvāmī was an educated brahmacārī, and under the circumstance it was not possible for him to indulge in sex. This is strictly prohibited for brahmacārīs, and what to speak of a brahmacārī like Śukadeva Gosvāmī. But because the circumstances of the rasa dance were very suspect, Mahārāja Parīkṣit inquired for clarification from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī immediately replied that transgressions of religious principles by the supreme controller testify to His great power. For example, fire can consume any abominable thing. That is the manifestation of the supremacy of fire. Similarly, the sun can absorb water from urine or from stool, and the sun is not polluted. Rather, due to the influence of sunshine the polluted, contaminated place becomes disinfected and sterilized. One may also argue that since Kṛṣṇa is the supreme authority, His activities should be followed. In answer to this question, Śukadeva Gosvāmī has very clearly said, īśvarāṇām, or the supreme controller, may sometimes violate His instructions, but this is only possible for the controller Himself and not for the followers. Unusual and uncommon activities by the controller can never be imitated. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that the conditioned followers who are not actually in control should never even imagine imitating the uncommon activities of the controller. A Māyāvādī philosopher may falsely claim to be God or Kṛṣṇa, but he cannot actually act like Kṛṣṇa. He can persuade his followers to falsely imitate the rasa dance, but he is unable to lift Govardhana Hill. We have many experiences in the past of Māyāvādī rascals deluding their followers by posing themselves as Kṛṣṇa in order to enjoy rasa līlā. In many instances they were checked by the government, arrested and punished. In Orissa, Ṭhākura Bhaktivinoda also punished the so-called incarnation of Viṣṇu who was imitating rasa-līlā with young girls. There were many complaints against him. At that time Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was a magistrate, and the government deputed him to deal with that rascal, and he punished him very severely. The rasa-līlā dance cannot be imitated by anyone. Śukadeva Gosvāmī warns that one should not even think of imitating it. He specifically mentions that if out of foolishness one tries to imitate Kṛṣṇa's rasa dance he will be killed, just like a person who wants to imitate Lord Śiva's drinking of an ocean of poison. Lord Śiva drank an ocean of poison and kept it within his throat. The poison made his throat turn blue, and therefore Lord Śiva is called nīla-kaṇṭha. But if any ordinary person tries to imitate Lord Śiva by drinking poison or by smoking gañja, he is sure be vanquished and will die within a very short time. Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs was under special circumstances."
Prabhupāda: It is not for public show. That is the idea.
Prabhupāda: That's right. Then learn it from me. Otherwise, if you refuse, then you must be punished. That is my duty.
Hari-śauri: You were just saying that a person who's not religious, he's no better than an animal, but he might argue that even the animals have a right to live undisturbed.
Prabhupāda: No, animal... Right to live with animal is subjected to be punished, just to live rightly. Suppose a cow comes with his horn like that. He must be punished immediately, the atrocity.(?) Then he'll be corrected.
Hari-śauri: But there are so many animals living in the jungle who don't...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, jungle, we have no business to go there. We have rejected jungle. Let them live there. But in the human society, if the animal disturbs, it must be punished—with stick.
Satsvarūpa: What about say a Buddhist who practices ahiṁsā...?
Prabhupāda: Now, Buddhist... I say there is no question of "Buddhist," "Christian." One must know what is God.
Satsvarūpa: That's even... That's their philosophy. There's a saying, "Nobody's perfect."
Prabhupāda: No. That you do not know, who is perfect. That is your ignorance. We know. If I know who is perfect, why shall I take your advice, "Nobody is perfect"? Kṛṣṇa is perfect. I know from authorities, from perfect persons.
Hari-śauri: Then they might argue that "I have my authority, and I'm happy to live by it."
Prabhupāda: But you do not believe in authority. You say, "Nobody is perfect." How you get, have, authority? Your statement is "Nobody is perfect," so how you can get?
Hari-śauri: But as far as my own happiness goes...
Prabhupāda: You are unhappy.
Pṛthu-putra: So then the question is... After Arjuna heard the whole Bhagavad-gītā and understood it, when he engaged in the battlefield, still, when he heard that Abhimanyu, his son, died, he was very agitated again and...
Prabhupāda: So that is natural. If my sons dies, I will not be agitated? What is the wrong there?
Pṛthu-putra: Well, one advocate asked me this in Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: That is temporary. That is temporary, but it is natural. Suppose if I prick you, you feel some pain, but that is temporary. Āgamāpāyinaḥ anityāḥ. They come and go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just because we cannot make the mind doesn't mean that the mind is not material. I may not make it, but still we say it's...
Prabhupāda: No, you say material; we say... We have full knowledge. We say material, but subtle material. But you have no knowledge; therefore you have no brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What proof is there?" they may argue.
Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Now, if the real active principle has left, the brain has left, the mind has left—it is only a lump. You cannot understand. If you understand it, then replace it. If you cannot, then you have no brain. You have to prove that, that "You have no brain at all. Where is the question of brainwashing?"
Hari-śauri: But if we operate on a person's brain, actual brain substance, it affects his personality. So therefore the personality in the brain is the same.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you know, you give this man brain, mind, and again let him get up and work. I want this.
Prabhupāda: Why we appoint lawyer?
Ādi-keśava: Well, in the court there are certain things that only the lawyer may argue. We're not allowed to argue ourselves. Now, one thing is that Hari-śauri has just told me that Guru-kṛpā Mahārāja has one man on his party who was a lawyer, a member of the bar in Australia. So I'm thinking to ask Guru-kṛpā Mahārāja if he can come with us to New York and get admitted to the bar in New York and become our attorney.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It will be very nice.
Ādi-keśava: Because otherwise it is costing so much money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately.
Ādi-keśava: One other thing that is sometimes arising is that when we are arguing the case in the court...
Prabhupāda: Why not get help from some Indian lawyer?
Ādi-keśava: Some are willing to help us. This one man Din Agnihotri from Southern University Law School, he helped us make the basis of the case. But most of the Indian lawyers, they will not help us.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Ādi-keśava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gītā for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: You are all young men. Who wants to become an invalid man like me? With three men I have to walk. Nobody wants. But you have to accept. I did not like. But you have to accept, compulsory. What is the use of saying, "Why shall I accept?" You... "Why?" There is no question of "Why?" You have to. That is the control.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might argue that...
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argue? I'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like a madman.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Nature will beat you with shoes. You have to accept.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say, "We have seen old men, but we have never seen anyone change their body."
Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?
Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."
Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In this age Caitanya Mahāprabhu has made everything very simplified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patitānāṁ pāvanebhyaḥ. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo, tāra sākṣī jagāi-mādhāi, brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei. Kṛṣṇa is coming. He has come as Caitanya Mahāprabhu to deliver these pāpīs and tāpīs. Whole process is scientific. It is not (laughs) the Ramakrishna, Vivekananda. It is not that. What do they know? Or Gandhi. They are also trying for the betterment, but they do not accept the standard process. Everyone is trying. That is struggle for existence. So who is fittest? The fittest is the devotee. He'll survive. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). I have now explained how Kṛṣṇa became subordinate to devotee. (turns on dictaphone, plays back from tape:) "Yamarāja, controller of all living entities, is afraid of the order of Kṛṣṇa. Still, Kṛṣṇa is afraid of mother's stick. This contradictory thing cannot be understood by one who is not devotee. Devotee can understand how much powerful is unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, so much so He can be controlled by such devotee. Bhṛtya-vaśyata. That means under the control of the servant, but He is under the control of pure love by the servant. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, we see, Kṛṣṇa became the chariot driver of Arjuna. Arjuna is ordering Him, senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta (BG 1.21). Here Kṛṣṇa has agreed... (break) '...my chariot...' (break) '...to execute my order. Place my chariot between the two party soldiers.' Kṛṣṇa immediately executed his order. One may argue in this connection that Kṛṣṇa is also not independent. This is ajñāna, ignorance. Kṛṣṇa is fully independent. When He becomes subordinate to the devotees He is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. Humor of transcendental qualities increases transcendental pleasure. One who worships Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore sometimes desires to be controlled by somebody controller. Nobody else... (break) ...pure devotee." (end of tape playback section) Everyone worships Him as the Supreme, but sometimes He desires, "Somebody will control over."
Correspondence
1969 Correspondence
Your eighth, "How can I explain how the light and heat from the single sun in this universe is able to reach so far? Is it a question of the receptivity of different planets?" We can see one sun only. So it is simply speculation whether there is one or more suns. But we get from authority of Sastra that there is one sun, in each universe, and the stars and moon reflects the light of this sun. There is one sun in the daytime, and it illuminates so nicely that all darkness is gone. But at night, you may argue, if these stars are so many suns, then why the darkness is still there??
1972 Correspondence
Regarding your questions on Christianity, we are not very much keen to engage them in argument because for the most part they are sentimentalists and have no philosophy, therefore they become fanatics or dogmatists, and this type of person we cannot change. But if you find some Christian person who is intelligent to understand philosophy then you may argue that if God is unlimited, how He can be confined to having only one son? The son is the representative of the father, and in that sense he is the same as the father, but also he is different than the father. So Christ is speaking in this sense, that only through the representative of God can one come to God. Just like Krishna says in Bhagavad-gita that one should surrender to a bona fide spiritual master, and then He also says that one should "Surrender unto Me."
| Page Title: | One may argue (Lect., Conv., & Letters) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 06 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=22, Con=22, Let=2 |
| No. of Quotes: | 46 |