One man (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"one man" |"one man's"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. Banned means we had something. But what proof you have got that you have done something in Japan?

Indian man: There is something; there is nothing.

Prabhupāda: So it is better. Just like one man said that "I have lost fifty thousand this year." His friend said, "You are still fortunate, because you had fifty thousand. But I have no fifty paisa even."

Indian man: So there is something. Here nothing.

Prabhupāda: "So you are so fortunate that you could suffer the loss of fifty thousand, but I have nothing to lose."

Indian man: But that is for a discriminating man. Here it is an ignorance, asuya, envy. When Acyutānanda Swami was addressing one man (he) said, "Why always have Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We can have Hare Christ also." Same answer as Your Holiness gave, he said, "Yes, yes, you can have it. Whoever says.... We don't say no. It is also possible, but degree, matter of degree," as Your Holiness the other day put it. And some chapters and words were read out to the people. They were convinced that same saṅkīrtana is also sanctioned in the Bible.

Prabhupāda: We have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu or you? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). So we have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is this building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a tuberculosis hospital.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that bona fide, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Acyutānanda: In the Brahma-vaivarta... So a court case appeared. One man had some property in the name of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deities. So the court said, "You only have the quota for one family." So he argued that Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa are not married; They are two separate families, so They should have double quota of land. So he won the case on that. But if somebody came from the south, he said, "No, They can be married also," he would have lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, there is..., you wrote...

Acyutānanda: Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...there's a ceremony where Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa are, I think, married.

Acyutānanda: Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa I heard, that They were married by Brahmā in secret.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...lands are being distributed.

Acyutānanda: To the bhaṅgīs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Distributed?

Prabhupāda: These lands are being distributed?

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...take to our principles, these things will be automatically be finished. Na ca daivāt paraṁ balam.

Vasughosa: (break) In Indonesia the government has a Hindu-Buddha department.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Vasughoṣa: Hinduism department in Indonesia. So they've divided the land..., you know, the different religions into different departments, and they have one man who studied in Benares. He's in charge of the whole country for Hinduism and Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: So why they do not allow our?

Vasughosa: No, actually they allow us. They allow our society, but it's such a corrupt country that at any moment they could kick us out if they want. They have no principle except money.

Prabhupāda: Just like Africa.

Vasughosa: Yes. But the man seems to be a little intelligent, a little knowledgeable. I met him. He seems to be a little.... (break) They try to renovate temples there. They are very old temples like in India and they have...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...they do not give for so-called religion, it is better. They are not spoiling the money.

Acyutānanda: The head of that Viśva-Hindu went to Delhi to get tax exemption. So they said, "You drop the name Hindu." They said, "No, we will never drop the name Hindu. Even if you don't give us tax exemption, we will be without the tax exempt but we will never give up our name Hindu."

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: You say, sir, "The Bengalis have ruined Hinduism; I am salvaging it." Another Bengali is salvaging the ruined Hinduism. Bengalis ruined the.... Whole Bengal, half of Bengal turned Islamic and this because of these brāhmaṇas.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere, in Punjab also. Punjab also, the same thing.

Dr. Patel: One man was cast out and he was not taken back, so he converted half of the Bengal into Islam.

Prabhupāda: No. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is: "Doesn't matter what you are. Now you become trained up. Whatever you are, it doesn't matter."

Dr. Patel: But so many Muslims have become very good, I mean, Vaiṣṇava saints.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: There are some examples in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: And I have got many disciples.

Dr. Patel: Vṛndāvana, there are two, three of them, I mean, not here, but Arabics.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu converted many Pathans to become Vaiṣṇava. He changed the name. One Pathan was named Rāmadāsa. Just like I have changed Ramjan into Rāma-rañjana, Attar into Atreya Ṛṣi.

Dr. Patel: Atreya. You have got such chelās there?

Morning Walk -- January 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Bidi.

Jayapatāka: Many people want to open up a shop. They'll pay for the...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...tulasī...

Jayapatāka: Our land.

Prabhupāda: So why not employ one man to manfacture tulasī beads? Yes. There are many experts.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have to live here as devotee?

Jayapatāka: No.

Prabhupāda: No, let them manufacture. That will make him devotee.

Bhavānanda: On the right here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is our nursery for our landscaping.

Prabhupāda: So this is nice. It is very.... It will be very nice to live in these rooms. What is the cost of this kattan?

Jayapatāka: Of?

Prabhupāda: What do we pay?

Jayapatāka: Bed, the small bed, about twenty-five, thirty rupees.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Jayapatāka: And the bigger ones, a full man size, about forty-five.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten dollars you can sell it like that for, twenty dollars. Every month or two we have to hold a garage sale because so many.... When the boys join I get them to donate everything they have. I send one man with them to their apartment. Usually they are sharing their apartment or house with some others, friends, and suddenly the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees come in and take everything out of the house, furniture...

Prabhupāda: They feel glad.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Sometimes.... One time I was in Boulder, Colorado. So I meet this boy on the campus and in five minutes I convinced him to...

Prabhupāda: I have seen in New York. Many tenants, they leave their whole possession and go away. I have seen it. And for the landlord it becomes a problem, how to cleanse this. I have seen it. All table, chairs, bedding, scattered in this way, and they went away. I have seen it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Colorado I convinced this one boy to join us. He was a musician, the leader of a band. So I only talked to him for a few minutes but he became convinced very quickly. So I asked him, "You're a musician. You have some instruments?" because these instruments are very valuable. He said, "Yes, I have some." I said, "Well, you should give them to Kṛṣṇa because everything that you give, then you'll get benefit. Even if sinfully you got these things previously, now everything will be turned to a positive, good use." He said, "Well, the thing is, my band, we're doing a program in the mountains, and they may be leaving with all the instruments." So I said, "Let's go." So I took him in the bus, and I took the bus to his house, and there was the people in his band, and they were about to come out of the house. They were already packed up. So I pulled the bus in front of the driveway and blocked them. Then I told him, "You bring all your members of your band into the bus." So then I preached to them. It turned out he owned all the equipment of the band, the microphones, everything. So they became very angry when they heard that he was going to become a Hare Kṛṣṇa. They were very, very angry, but somehow I made them agree, and they took all this equipment out. It was worth many thousands of dollars. They had to.... Their whole band was broken apart. So many times this has happened with these bands, that one member joins us and then they give all the instruments, microphone systems, everything. So when this happens, then we put everything in a garage and we hold a sale and sell everything. Usually they donate television sets...

Morning Walk -- January 20, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, you produce more.

Jayapatākā: What ha... In the... Because now this field is the only field that is ripening, so that if he doesn't scare the bird away, all the bird will come and eat his field. When all the wheat is ripening at the same time, then nobody cares. They let the birds eat. But if one man only is growing one crop at one time, then all the birds come. They will clean out and they all get...

Prabhupāda: No, therefore everyone should grow seasonal grains. Everyone should take wheat. I think the number of men is more than the number of bricks. (break) ...rooms will be finished. They are not being finished. This? (break) ...Calcutta. So landlords became very perplexed. So one landlord asking, "You don't go. I shall reduce the rent." "Yes, that's all right, but your house is also not very good. There are so many rats." "All right, you can remain without rent." "And still, there are rats." "All right, I shall give you one cat so there will be no dis..." "Ah, who is going to keep a cat? I will require milk also to feed." "All right, I shall give you half kilo or one kilo milk also." "All right." So then he says, "Now no rent and one kilo milk, that's all right." This was in 1942.

Jayapatākā: (break) ...minister is coming to the district and...

Prabhupāda: Which minister?

Jayapatākā: The Ajit Panja. He's the health minister. So we didn't see him...

Bhavānanda: (break) ...that we must take drastic steps for curbing the population.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you become brahmacārī?

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Why they look inquisitive? No commentary. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Cent percent cheater beginning from the top. They have lost their own culture, Vedic civilization, and they are not competent to earn properly. They must be cheater. Beg, borrow, steal. They have lost their own culture; therefore they have no one honest. Formerly Indians were so honest that after one man's death, his son comes... Even we have seen it in childhood. "Sir, my father took from you the five thousand rupees. So now he is dead, so I have come to pay you." So he says, "I never seen my account that your father has taken five thousand rupees from me. I cannot take it." This is India. One man is offering him five thousand, that "We are debtor to you. Please take it." And he says, "No, I don't find in my account that your father took five thousand. I cannot take it." And now they are cheating. This is India's position. Even in our childhood I have see that Mr. C. R. Das, his father died insolvent some lakhs of rupees. So when he became a big barrister he called every one of them that "My father died insolvent. Now I have got money. You take it." This was India. And now they have become cheaters. This is svarāj, independence. Even in British times there was C. R. Das who liquidated the debts of his insolvent father. "My father died insolvent. He could not pay, so he declared insolvency in the court. Now I have got money. You take it." This was India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the need of a son.

Morning Walk -- February 4, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So why it is like that? People may fall down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, it should be up there in the day.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...again mūḍha.

Sudāmā: (break) ...speaking about how they are complaining that we are waking them up. A very interesting story... In Hawaii for one year every day this one man living next door to us every morning would call the police force at guru-pūjā. So many cars would come, three, four police cars. So finally, after one or two weeks' coming, they would come very happily, and they would take prasāda. So they came because he called, they had to follow his complaint, but they told me personally, "We are coming not to arrest you or complain. We like your activities. Please give us some prasādam."

Hṛdayānanda: Also in Caracas many, many police cars come to the temple for prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, I think your dhoti is pulling...

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...that the people against us were trying to prove that we're not actually a real religion. So the judge became very angry at the other lawyer and stood up on his bench. The judge stood up and said, "Are you trying to say that these people are not a bona fide religion?" And the lawyer said, "No, your honor. No." (laughter)

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Was active, He is active, but you, you rascal, you cannot see. You cannot say, "Once He was active. Now He is no more active. He has finished His activity." That you cannot say. Dormant? What do you mean by dormant? Huh? Dormant means potential. He can act. And He is acting. That acting you have to learn, how He is acting. He appears to be not acting, but He is acting. That is knowledge. Just like airplane is running. A intelligent man knows that "The pilot is there. He is acting. Therefore it is running." And a foolish man will say, "The airplane is going automatically." That is the question of observation. A foolish boy... I have given this example many times, that I was thinking that in the fan there is a ghost. But the idea is, there must be somebody. Although I was a child... I could not explain how the fan is running in my childhood. I was thinking there must be some ghost. And in the gramophone box I was thinking there must be one man within this box. So this is foolish thinking, but I was convinced that without somebody, it cannot sing or it cannot run. Even one is very innocent child, he can think like that. So whole thing is going on, prakṛti, the activities of material nature... Just like there was cloud and rain. Now it is not raining. So there is activity already. It is being managed. So you cannot say that God is dormant. He is acting because His creation is acting, and God says that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction the nature is working." How you can say He is dormant? The nature is working?

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So it was sold in good price?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's nice.

Hṛdayānanda: As you are always saying, Prabhupāda, these people are not becoming purified. This one man who Jagadīśa mentioned, he's the most famous Christian preacher practically in the Western world. Now he's becoming older, about sixty. Recently they asked him that "If you could live your life again, would you live the same life or a different life?" So he said, "I am very sorry because I spent too much of my time preaching. I should have spent more time with my family."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he actually said that?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes. At the end of life this is his...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's the foremost Christian preacher in the world right now, Prabhupāda.

Hṛdayānanda: He said, "I accepted too many invitations to go preach. I should have spent time with my family."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will make him more popular, and they'll say he's more religious.

Hṛdayānanda: (break) ...already left to preach.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. (break) Eh? Dhunvanti, aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ.(?) This is Kṛṣṇa. In one second He can make it purified. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ (BG 18.66). Simply surrender.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Bhavānanda: That is also the demigods?

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, greater than you, you admit it, demigods or God or anything. But why you are thinking yourself so big? That is your fault. That is foolishness. I am a big man amongst a small, tiny living entities. But why you are thinking you are biggest of all, you can understand everything? That is your fault. This is the folly of the conditioned soul. He is nothing. He has no value. Still, he is thinking he is very great. Everything is big and small relatively. Just like here if one man has got 100,000 rupees, he's a big man. But what is 100,000 rupees in America? Nothing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One year's salary for an average man.

Hṛdayānanda: A worker.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lakhpati. Here they call, lakhpati. Lakhpati means owner of 100,000 rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lakhpati.

Prabhupāda: So what is this lakhpati there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This fog appears just like an ocean, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It looks just like the ocean.

Prabhupāda: Frozen. Frozen ocean. Means they are defeated; they are coming down. By the sun they are defeated. They were high. "Now go down." Now it will be finished.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is communal thought.

Acyutānanda: "Times are changing. You have to move. You have to change with the time."

Dayānanda: Mao says, "Revolution, constant revolution."

Acyutānanda: Yes. I asked one man. I said, "What do you have to show? What is the results? What is the results of the change? The people are still living in a hut." He says, "The struggle is what we have to show, that we had a struggle. People are not just sitting by and being exploited, but they are now struggling."

Prabhupāda: No, that is already found...

Acyutānanda: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Prabhupāda: ...in the Bhagavad-gītā: manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is the nature's law. What you have got to say about this thing? Nothing. It is already there. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "Although they are my part and parcel," mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), still, "because they have been predominated by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses, they are struggling." So our propaganda is "Stop this sense gratification and mental concoction. Then the struggle will cease. And if you still abide by the senses and mental dictation, then you'll have to suffer."

Acyutānanda: (break) ...a bullock can pull it out. Bullocks can pull it out. And fifty years ago, they would have the bullocks...

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But both of them are coming from me. So this sensation, this consciousness, is perfect when it comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is developing, in every living entity is developing. The consciousness, the sensation, is there in the tree also, but he is not developed. When the same consciousness comes to the complete perfection, then he understands, "Oh, here is Kṛṣṇa." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is perfection. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: "The real source is Vasudeva." Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Then he glorifies Vasudeva. But to know Vasudeva, you make research. That is one way, going on. But if you accept... Vasudeva says, "I am everything." Then accept immediately. The whole solution is there. Two, two ways: āroha-panthā, avaroha-panthā. You are trying to search out. Go on. It will take many, many births. But if you accept... The same Vasudeva is coming kindly ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). You accept it, then the knowledge is perfect. Suppose I am making this sound (makes sound with cane). Underneath they are puzzled: "Wherefrom this sound is coming?" They are making research. And if I say, "I am making this sound," then everything, knowledge, is there. The rascal will not surrender. Ask the man who is making sound. Then the knowledge is perfect. But he'll make research: "Wherefrom the sound came?" This is rascaldom. And one man is suggesting, "It is... The sound may be like this. The sound may be due to this." They are going on, researching. But if I say, "You rascal, why you are contemplating like that? I made this sound like this (make sound with cane). That's all," So that knowledge they'll not take. Mūḍhāḥ. Therefore they are... Nābhijānati. Mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. So if we call them all mūḍhas, what is the wrong? They become angry. But if we call them, all these rascals, mūḍhas, what is the wrong? They say, "Oh, you are using very strong language. You are calling us all mūḍhas." But actually you are all mūḍhas because you do not know Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...ment of atom?

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1976, Mayapur:

Revatīnandana: Yes. It's amazing. If you look closely you will see...

Pañcadraviḍa: The gopīs, they didn't like very much being instructed by Uddhava?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That was dry for them. They asked Uddhava, "Bring Kṛṣṇa. We don't want you any more..." (break) What is his name? That...? Tapomāyā. Tapa... He never sees whether it is watered. He is in charge of agricultural department? Where is Jayapatāka? He never sees. One man should be in charge to see things are being done.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Each... What was that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Each flat.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Each floor?

Prabhupāda: Yes, each floor. Yes. But Tapomāyā, he does not see even that the water is... He is in charge of agriculture?

Jayapatāka: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, it can be understood how he is seeing, he is managing. He does not see.

Jayapatāka: Right now we only have about four or five men here that are managing everything. He is also purchasing all the things for the festival. The GBC's have been requested to give some men...

Prabhupāda: That means he has no time. Then why he says that "I am in charge." He is not in charge.

Jayapatāka: He is trying to... (break)

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Tuwā o pada baraṇe(?) This is required.

Acyutānanda: Serving the root.

Prabhupāda: "My only responsibility is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa"—then this very conception will save you.

Rāmeśvara: I spoke with one man who argued that "Kṛṣṇa is very cruel because He knows everything past, present and future, so He knew that we would all fall down from the spiritual sky, but still, He gave us the independence to fall down."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: "Even though He knew we would fall, because He knows everything..."

Acyutānanda: That's a common question.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish question. Unless you have got independence, what is your life? Then you are dead stone. You want to become a dead stone? That is not Kṛṣṇa's concern. Kṛṣṇa does not give such perfection, that you become a dead stone.

Acyutānanda: "The thing is that because Kṛṣṇa knows the future, past, present, and future, so He knew that we would fall down, so why didn't He help me?"

Prabhupāda: No, no, future means, just like.... This is the law of nature, that if you steal, you'll be punished. So if I say, "Oh, you are stealing; you'll be punished," this is future. Suppose this is the month of March, and if I say, "In the month of July there will be rain." So I know; you know; everyone knows. This is not a future telling. The natural sequence is everyone knows it.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When I was in America, I got one report. One person was telling me they had read of this person. It shows the limit..., how unlimited one can eat anything. This one man, he has, he has been for twenty years eating an automobile. He takes the different parts of the automobile, grinding it down, and daily eats different parts of it.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? Just see. Madman. There is iron, metal. He was eating?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's eating by grinding it very finely into powder. He's.... His program is to consume one entire automobile-tires, windshield, everything.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Just so he'll become famous.

Prabhupāda: And how he'll live?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Apparently he takes a little enough quantity that it doesn't disturb. And it's ground down very finely into powder.

Trivikrama: He eats other stuff too.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he eats other things also, meat.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guru-kṛpā: I talked to one lady. She was daily eating one glass of dirt.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Implicated by desires. We are desiring always, constantly. So the desire makes your next body. Every living entity in this material world is desiring how to enjoy. What is your question? Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How the eternal spirit soul becomes so completely absorbed that he completely forgets about the future and simply he becomes absorbed in some temporary sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That is material existence. Material existence means to satisfy senses. That is material existence. Don't you see that everyone is planning for some material.... Just that one man is the.... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa was saying that he was eating motorcar. Just see. (laughter) What is the meaning of this? But he is desiring like that, that "I shall be famous man by eating motorcar."

Guru dāsa: He's desiring for fame.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone can understand, "What is the use of this fame?" but he is desiring. This is going on. That is the cause of his bondage. This life he's desiring to eat motorcar, next life he is desiring to eat something, enjoy something, varieties of mano-dharma, mental concoction, and that is his bondage. Kṛṣṇa is so kind; whatever he desires, he is given the facility: "All right, take it."

Guru dāsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it more natural to love someone else...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guru dāsa: Is it more natural for someone else to enjoy or for ourselves to enjoy?

Prabhupāda: No, it is personal, our. You are desiring something, and you get the opportunity.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We met station platform, means...(?) That is another thing(?).

Dr. Patel: Otherwise for common people, it is very difficult

Indian man (1): One man was waiting in a queue for four hours. Did not see. And he came back.

Dr. Patel: There is a fee. There is a fee for going.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In some places, even if you have money, you cannot see, like Jagannātha.

Dr. Patel: They are fools, sir. You can go. I think one day I will have to go with them and fight out the whole case. These boys should be allowed. They follow the sanātana-dharma. And again in.... I mean, now the government has put the regulations that all the temples are open to all, anybody and everybody. How can they refuse? Who are at that maṭha, Jagannātha? Those people, they must be from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Local men.

Dr. Patel: All the big temples in India have got management committees, practically people from various parts. Our own Jagannātha Purī, I mean, this, our Dvārakā temple is managed by people from Bombay. Bombay, Delhi, and many other places. So they must have all...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even one of our Indian men they stopped. Caitya-guru told me that when he went there they thought he was Westerner. They wouldn't let him in the second time he tried to go in.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This Modi, is, I mean, an industrialist, but his nephew, an architect.... My niece was studying in London, and she married with him in England. Intercommunal marriage.

Abhirāma: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Abhirāma: I have seen in Miami Beach that one man was found dead in his apartment, and he was living poverty-stricken. His whole place was full of rats and cockroaches. When they investigated his file they found that he had eight million dollars in the bank and in stocks. But all of his friends said he couldn't spend one penny his whole life, because he was too cheap. So even though he was a rich man, actually he was a poor man.

Dr. Patel: But, sir, there are some beggars here in Bombay who have got one and two lakh rupees. You have read the railway(?) story about couple of beggars. They rounded up, and they had money.

Prabhupāda: No, I am also a beggar. I am also beggar.

Dr. Patel: That is not.... You are a rich beggar.

Prabhupāda: Millions of dollars.

Dr. Patel: Sannyāsīs don't touch money.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I don't touch money. They pass check. (laughter) I simply sign check. All these accounts in Bombay, they are being managed by them. I do not touch even. Lakhs and lakhs of rupees they are spending.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then it is all right. And without God consciousness there is no qualification. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. There cannot be any good qualities. (break)

Dr. Patel: Then His kingdom can come on earth, not otherwise.

Prabhupāda: No, no. If one man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can deliver many millions. Not expected... You cannot expect all to become, but if one man is there, Kṛṣṇa conscious, he can deliver. (break) Kaścid yatati siddhaye, yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid... (BG 7.3). So it is not so easy thing, but if there is one Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he can deliver many millions. (break) ...ti śreṣṭhas ...lokas tad anuvartate. There must be one śreṣṭha, ideal man, and then everyone will follow. And there is no śreṣṭha. That is the difficulty.

Dr. Patel: Śreṣṭha is only God. Śrī iṣṭha means śreṣṭha, sir. The śrī iṣṭha is only...

Prabhupāda: Yes, śreṣṭha, but one who follows Him, he is also śreṣṭha.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mahat-sevām.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2).

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "By associating with devotees..."

Prabhupāda: Tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam. Tamo-dvāram, the path of darkness, if they associate with yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam.

Dr. Patel: There is sat-saṅga sadācāraṁ nirāvinam.(?)These three qualities come to men, sir.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The next line is mārobi rākhobi, yo icchā tohārā. (Hindi) This is surrender.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, that reminds me of a story that I read that one man, one English lord, had gone on a pigeon shooting. I told once this story. And he had got lot of pigeons in a gunny bag, and he would allow one pigeon to go and shoot. One pigeon, instead of flying, fell down at his feet. He could not shoot it. Like that. And this reminds me, this story, always reminds me, this complete surrender. He could not shoot that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: So God will not mara na(?). He will never maro, cannot maro, because you are at His very feet.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He is supplying everything without any surrendering. (Hindi) But that care and outside-the-jail care, there is little difference. In the prison house, even one is very highly qualified, and if he applies for some good post, he will not be given. He'll not be given. But outside the prison? "Yes, you are qualified. Come on." The same government, the same man, but so long one is criminal, there is no consideration. (break) Yes, regularly I get at one o'clock.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One night Prabhupāda rang the buzzer; it was twelve-thirty.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda was translating.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is all right. That is all right. He has gone to the.... That is pious. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtinaḥ. Anyone who goes to Kṛṣṇa or guru for asking, he is pious. He is not miscreant. Duṣkṛtina. He is not duṣkṛtina. He is pious. Maybe he is in the lower position, but he is pious. That is described. And one who does not go either to Kṛṣṇa or His representative, he is duṣkṛtina, narādhama. This is the difference. One man is suffering from some disease. If he has gone to the physician, he is intelligent. And one who says, "Ha, what is this? I don't care for that," he's a rascal. That's all.

Dr. Patel: He must come to me. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyone who accepts that "I must be treated," he is intelligent.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but parā-vidyā is meant for the body, aparā-vidyā, I mean to say. Parā-vidyā is meant for the soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: So soul and body has got to live together. So there is a necessity of aparā-vidyā also to keep your body going.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Parā-vidyā does not mean to reject the body.

Dr. Patel: Sir, there is a necessity of aparā-vidyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No. That is to make the best use of a bad bargain, how to use the body best to perfect parā-vidyā. That is intelligence. Just like you have a car. A car is not neglected. We don't kick out car. But it must be used for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They can't stop, na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have to go further.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And this is negation. Just like one man is diseased. He is also eating, he is also sleeping, but that is not healthy eating, sleeping. He has to get relief from this eating, lying down on the bed and eating by some instrument. This nonsense eating, sleeping should be stopped. And when he's healthy, he eats also, sleeps also. That is different. That is different eating, sleeping, but they do not.... He is suffering from disease. He thinks, "Again eating? Make it zero. Make it zero." This is Māyāvādī. He has no taste what is the other eating. He wants to make it zero because here the eating is so botheration, "Oh, let me commit suicide. Make it zero." So that is Buddha philosophy.

Guru-kṛpā: Sour grapes.

Prabhupāda: So that is good for the less intelligent class of men. Because they cannot understand what is bhakti, so Buddha therefore says, "First of all make this zero, rascal. Then your real life begins." But what is that real life he did not say, because the rascals will not understand. Simply advised, "You make this zero, śūnyavādī." Then, when time will come, he will understand what is positive.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, this process is su-sukham, very, very joyful. So how can we explain to the karmīs that this anxiety...

Prabhupāda: You are not feeling joyful? To chant, dance, and eat prasādam is not joyful? Is it not?

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're eating meat. They have no even human sense. What is that religion? They have no even sense that "I am cutting throat of one poor animal under my protection. If somebody cuts my throat, how much I am unhappy. And I'm doing the same business and I'm human being? How can I call myself a human being? I have no sense even of compassion." Cats and dogs are passing on as religionists. Some hogs and pigs are going on as philosopher. And other animals is going as scientist, Darwin. They're animals only, cats and dogs. They are the leaders of the society. How you can expect any benefit from them? The leaders themselves are cats and dogs, pigs. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). These leaders, they are saṁstutaḥ, they are very much worshiped. By whom? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. By the dogs, by the pigs, by the.... śva-viḍ-varāha..., camel, and by the ass. Because these particular names, I have explained in the Bhāgavata... So suppose one man has become lion, and he's praised by dogs, camels, asses, and pigs. Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king." Does it mean he's king? He's animal. So it is going on. They are electing a big animal as president. And when he begins to eat, animal, big animal, then they protest, "Oh, now he's not proper president. Get him down, get him down." But why you sent him? "Because we are pigs; we have no other knowledge. We another, appoint another big pig as our president." Everything is explained in the Vedic literature. If you can present them properly, it will act. The voters are śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. And the president is another big animal. That's all. This is transaction of animal kingdom. A lion is the king of some asses, pigs, dogs, and hogs. What business you can expect there? This is their real picture. One who is a human being, he's seeing that how the animals are enjoying by voting and electing president. But they are thinking, "We are busy in a very great business. We are electing president." (laughter) This is going on. (break) ...you say that these rascal pigs, hogs, they elected president, and this president will eat them, and they will understand what kind of president they have elected. This thing is happening in the most advanced country of USA.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Devotee (3): One, one man once said that to carry, to glorify the cross is like they..., glorifying the revolver.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (3): If the husband is shot, then you take the gun, and you worship the gun.

Prabhupāda: That is.... Yes. Very good example. Are you, are you going to some church (indistinct).

Woman: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So, the same picture, that Jesus Christ is carrying his cross, and falling. (indistinct) and you go enjoy. (long pause) In Māyāpur you have seen Yoga-pīṭha, Caitanya Mahāprabhu birthplace? Yoga-pīṭha.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu...

Devotee (2): Oh.

Prabhupāda: ...and two sides, his two wives. Not that Caitanya Mahāprabhu is worshiped as a sannyāsī.

Devotee (2): Gṛhastha.

Prabhupāda: Gṛhastha. Gṛhastha with two wives, he must enjoy. This is our process. Why you will see Him as a sannyāsī? Therefore Nityānanda prabhu broke (daṇḍa?). They want..., do not want to see Him as sannyāsī, (indistinct) renounce. Why He should be renounced? He is gṛhastha. "Oh, well." God must enjoy... (break)

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (3): That is why they're having so many revolutions, because they do not like to be under the control of the government, they figure that "Now we can have can have so many revolutions."

Prabhupāda: What is that revolution? The ball is kicked here, and again goes and he kicks there. That's all. Revolution means Czar was kicking, and then Lenin began to kick. But his business is to be kicked. That's all. What is the advancement? One man was kicking, another man was kicking. That's all. That is revolution. Gojan mumukta(?) (indistinct). If you have got strength, then the government is yours. That's all. But those who are resident, they are suffering. Just like this Korea, Vietnam, sometimes Communist government, sometimes capitalist government. The sufferer is the ordinary man. Revolution means one part takes the power, another man is killed. But the general people, they're suffering, this way that way. They do not think who will rule. Just like in India, they are the British rule, now it is Congress rule. But the result is in British rule the ghee was selling at one rupee per kilo, now it is twenty-five rupees. The dhotī was selling one rupee six anna, now it is twenty-five rupees. So what the public has gained? Nothing.

Devotee (2): (break) ...very much burdened, because they have some obligation to God. So therefore now they want to.... They consider it an obligation.

Prabhupāda: Obligation we must follow. That I have already said, that you have obligation to the state, you must pay tax. Otherwise you are criminal. So obligation must be there. If somebody is giving you protection, you must be obliged. If you don't feel obliged, then you'll be punished.

Hari-śauri: Gratitude is a sign of intelligence.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. (break) ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished. They are also waiting, (Sanskrit). (break) ...spiritual communism. Don't take more. Just like the natural birds, if you keep one bag of rice here, he'll come, but they will take three, four grains, and they'll go away. And if you ask a man, "Here is some stack of rice." "Ah, I'll take." Immediately finished. One man will take it the whole stack, everything. "Oh, I've got it free. Let me take it." But the birds, they're under natural law. They know, "Ah, I have finished. I have got my belly filled up. I don't require any more." So God has given everything sufficiently. If every man takes whatever he wants absolutely, then there is no difficulty. That is your complication. But why there should be fight? Father's property of every son. He take as much as he requires. Accept father, his property, and take as much as you require. Don't take more. That is real communism. So where is that communism? Who has it? The material nature, the mother, and God is the father. And we are all children. That's all. Plain truth. (break) ...accept this philosophy?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: That doesn't matter it's not arbitrary. Do you accept?

Hṛdayānanda: Rādhāvallabha is a rascal. (laughter)

Mahendra: Thirty or forty years also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, one man made a little plaster body of a human being, and he planted it in his back yard in England. And then he dug it up and said, "Oh, look, I've found the oldest man in history!" And all the scientists came and said, "Oh, yes, this is the oldest man in history." And for twenty or thirty years many men got their Ph.D.s by writing about how this plaster was the oldest man in history.

Prabhupāda: Yes, such fools are leaders.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the business of dogs, digging up bones. (laughter)

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, by calculating the movements of the moon, scientists can predict years in advance when the solar eclipse will be.

Prabhupāda: That is not their invention. That is already there. (pause) (walking) We shall go further? No? (japa)

Hari-śauri: One thing is, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if they've wrongly calculated the distance of the moon, then how is it that they're able to calculate these eclipses and whatever?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. First of all, answer this. Yes. Yes. They say the moon planet first. I say, no, sun planet. First of all...

Trivikrama:(?) But they can see the moon comes in front of the sun.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Candanācārya: This one that comes in front of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, all over the world, they accept Sunday first.

Mahendra: All of their successes are accidental. Just like they discovered the planet called Pluto. The way it was discovered was one man recognized that there was a fluctuation in the orbit of the planet Neptune, and so he made some calculations and figured that the fluctuations were caused by another planet that must be further away than Neptune that no one has discovered yet. So he made many calculations and figured out where the planet should be, how big it should be, how much it should weigh, how far away it was. So then he told other scientists about it, and they looked in their telescopes, and sure enough, there it was. But it wasn't as big as he said, nor was it as heavy as he said, nor was it as far away as he said, and when they rechecked the data they found that the orbit of the original planet wasn't really wrong either. So all of his calculations were wrong, but still the planet was there. So somehow or other he stumbled upon it, but all of his calculations to find it were absolutely wrong. That's the planet called Pluto.

Prabhupāda: Recently there was an propaganda. That comet?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it would come and destroy,

Prabhupāda: There was no comet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said it would destroy...

Prabhupāda: Destroy...

Hṛdayānanda: They predicted a comet that never came.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he spoiled these. They are already spoiled, and (static) that the government has done nice thing. What is his value? But because he has got money (static) popularity, he has become big man.

Rāmeśvara: So there is this theory that there is a conspiracy all over the world that the rich men to control.

Prabhupāda: That is, we say. If you have got money, you can make conspiracy or anything, whatever you like. Conspiracy I cannot make, I have no money, I cannot make conspiracy. But if I have got money, I can develop a conspiracy with my money. That one man asked, "Have you got any intelligence?" The man began to.... "Let me see." "What is that?" "I am seeing my pocket." "Why pocket?" "Intelligence means pocket." If there is money in my pocket, then there is intelligence. Otherwise, there is no intelligence. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita also said, daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśir nāśī. A man may be very, very big, qualified man, but if he's poor, everything's finished. Daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśir nāśī.

Rāmeśvara: So when they come to our temples and they see that the temple is very opulent, then they think we are intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they are more and more now.

Rāmeśvara: The church does this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More and more our society is getting respect because of the big buildings.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Rāmeśvara: New York.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Apart from me, even one sees Kṛṣṇa.... There were so many. But it is said that in the battlefield, everyone who died seeing Kṛṣṇa, he got liberation.

Candanācārya: You once said if someone sees saṅkīrtana and wonders "Who are those people?" then they are ten times more advanced than the greatest scientist.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is our test? Just explain. In the morning...

Hari-śauri: Oh. Prabhupāda was explaining to the reporters yesterday, one man was asking what Prabhupāda's opinion was about these other yogis. So he said, he quoted a verse in the Bhagavad-gītā that if someone does not know Kṛṣṇa, then he's either a fool, or he's a rascal or he's the lowest of mankind, or his knowledge is...

Prabhupāda: Most sinful.

Hari-śauri: Most sinful, or his knowledge is stolen by illusion. (break)

Bharadvāja: I understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the pure devotee can be as pervasive as Supersoul?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bharadvāja: By the mercy of Supersoul, he can be present in many places at once?

Prabhupāda: Yes. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, a devotee can become anything.

Duryodhana-guru: So in other words that means the pure devotees can be omniscient?

Prabhupāda: Everything. God is omniscient, so a pure devotee can become omniscient by the grace of God.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda explains that Varuṇa is omniscient.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We are so dull-headed.

Devotees: We, dull-headed.... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just like in the, what is called, movie spool....

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Film strip.

Prabhupāda: Film, yes. There are hundreds of bodies in the film, and when they are played, it seems that it's the same—one man is moving—but actually, in the film there are hundreds of bodies, but it is changing so swiftly it appears one.

Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it changing.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Jay Warner: A man's eye cannot see it change.

Prabhupāda: Yes. By nature's law it is changing every second in such swift way that we cannot understand.

Jay Warner: How does one give up the fear of dying?

Prabhupāda: There is no death. You change body. Because the body is lost, you are no more, you do not possess the childhood body, youth-hood body, that does no mean you are dead. You are living; the body has changed. But because we do not know the science, we think "The body is finished; therefore he's dead." Therefore you have to learn Bhagavad-gītā-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Find out the verse.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Rakṣaṇa: Wherever His most merciful, confidential associate is.

Jayādvaita: To start this center, it was not at all like Vṛndāvana. (break)

Mādhavānanda: It's a channel, actually. It comes in from Lake St. Clair and then it goes around, and there's a bridge there, and just past, one hundred yards, it goes out again. All of this property is owned by one man. His name is Harris. He owns this whole island and all of the land up here also. And up this way there are also many large mansions. Fisher mansions. The same man who built this house built many other mansions up here. But this is the nicest.

Prabhupāda: Oh. What for he did it?

Mādhavānanda: His family members. And then on this island, at the very end, on the lake there is a very, very large mansion called the Garwood Mansion, but it was completely destroyed.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Mādhavānanda: Ah, this man Harris, he wanted to get all the people off of this land that he owned. So he let the hippies and Hell's Angels move into this Garwood Mansion, and they destroyed it. And they raised commotion and disturbance all along. He was trying to get them all to leave. He's a very strange person. Now he's trying to sell everything. They are thinking to make some housing complex. It's a very big business venture. That is why we want to buy this land in front, to protect this side of the house in case anyone else wants to build there.

Prabhupāda: They drink this water? No.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: They simply eat meat, that's all. And some milk preparation.

Hari-śauri: They can't even do that now. Someone was saying that they restrict them now. One day a week they have to eat fish because there is not enough meat.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Hari-śauri: So they force them to eat fish now. (laughs) It's very bad.

Mādhavānanda: They are breeding.... In the airport we met one man; he is working on breeding a large bull, cattle. They breed cows for slaughter. So they are breeding now a very large cattle. They grow very, very.... it's called, instead of buffalo, they've named it beefalo.

Jayādvaita: They crossed buffalo.

Mādhavānanda: Crossbreed. And it is very huge bull. They raise it only for slaughtering, for getting a large quantity of meat. One bull, one buffalo, weighs hundreds and hundreds of pounds. And they sell it for half million dollars for one, so that they can breed it with others and make many. In the airports, when we are distributing books, we meet many farmers who have slaughter ranches. Whenever they say "farmer," usually it's for slaughtering. (break)

Jayādvaita: ...in Wisconsin we saw that there are many dairy cows. They are raising them especially for milk. It's called America's dairyland. And they have many, many big dairy cows. And they are getting so much milk. We were preaching that "If you take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you'll have the richest state, because you have so many cows, and we are preaching that people should drink milk and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So your state will be the richest."

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: The real problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. They do not understand this. They are so.... Just like animals. Animal does not understand what is birth, death, old age and disease. Real problem is there, but they are so dull-headed that their attention is diverted from the real problem. Temporary problems, they are busy. Just like, one major disease, one is suffering from a major disease. On account of that, he has sometimes headache, sometimes pain here, sometimes so many, minor. So, because we are subjected to meet death, so these minor conditions are there. The real problem is after suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering, when the body is no more able to bear suffering, it dies. Just like one man commits suicide. When he cannot control himself from the suffering, he voluntarily commits suicide. So death is the ultimate suffering. But we do not want suffering. Therefore problem is death. But who is anxious to solve this problem? They are not intelligent even. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). They do not know even what are the problems. Hmm?

Jayādvaita: They say that's life. They say that's what life is.

Prabhupāda: Life is to die?

Jayādvaita: Yes. They say this is natural.

Prabhupāda: So why you are afraid of death?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Then they say, "I'm not afraid."

Prabhupāda: So that's mad. (laughter) Yes, they say like that. Everyone is afraid of death.

Hari-śauri: They say "I don't mind to die. As long as I can just finish up one or two things first, then I don't mind."

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: These mistakes are going on.

avyapare suvyaparam

yo naraḥ kartum vichati

sa mula hantate khila

parthiva vanara vartuna (?)

One man's food is another man's poison. So one should not misplace what he's unable to do.

Scheverman: Many of these expressions that you are reading sound very similar to what we call the "Wisdom Literature" of the Old Testament of our Bible, of Syrac and Ecclesiastics and Ecclesiasticus, and also, of course, some of the sayings of Jesus are very close to what you're saying here. Jesus said "Seek first the kingdom of heaven, and all these other things will be added besides." That's the first-class man, who's constantly working toward the kingdom. "Blessed are the poor in spirit, blessed are the meek" and so on.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. If there is a first class, set a first-class man on the head of the society, then everything will be done properly.

Kern: In the Mass today Jesus said "You must be perfected as your heavenly father is perfect."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's nice.

Scheverman: I was wondering if you had some plan, some thoughts in the way in which we could mutually cooperate for the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is plan. Now suppose if I say "Let us create some peaceful man," so who will disagree with this? I don't say everyone will be peaceful, but some of them can be trained up. Some of them can be trained up courageous in battle. We have to select by practical psychology what is the tendency. Similarly we should divide,...

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes, as soon as you become. Without being first-class man, you cannot teach. A second-class, third-class, fourth-class man is not meant for teaching.

Scheverman: Where would you do this teaching?

Prabhupāda: Teaching everywhere, wherever there is possibility.

Kern: Do you do this by yourself? Are there any teachers?

Prabhupāda: No, I give them ideas, they go and teach. It is not one man's business.

Kern: No, I understand. Will you be here a good long while? Or will you be going to...

Prabhupāda: The thing is that I have established so many centers. So I have to go from one center to another just to encourage them. Otherwise I am old enough. I am eighty years. So traveling is not very good job for me, but still I do it just to encourage them.

Kern: Do.... Your lines of authority then come from you, or is it an elective authority?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is work on higher authority.

Kern: In other words, there would be no election. Like if you go to San Francisco...

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: So many things. In India there is no.... At least gentlemen, they do not eat meat. But the thing is that when there is fire, so everyone will suffer. If there is fire in this building, either you are sinful or not sinful, the effects will be shared by you.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (showing Prabhupāda newspaper) There was one newspaper at the Indian Embassy printed in Canada, it's called The Indian Calling. On the back page they have one supplement they took from Back to Godhead magazine.

Prabhupāda: It is ours?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is printed by the Indian community, one man, Anand Singh, and he included part of an article from the Back to Godhead magazine. There's one article in here also, the front page is a whole.... There's a racket they had going, these people, this man. He went to India and he found one widow, and he said, "I am a personal friend of the Prime Minister of Canada. Give me money, I'll take you to Canada. You can come. I'll make sure you get immigration status." So she came with him to Canada, and then he started blackmailing her, "Give me this much money every day, otherwise I'll reveal that you're an illegal immigrant, and you'll be in trouble with the government." And eventually it became such a burden that he simply killed her, cut her into three pieces and killed her. Then they found parts of different bodies like this, and they finally found the man.

Prabhupāda: The woman was killed?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this happened in Toronto. Wretched world. (long pause) (break) He writes what appears to be a nice editorial, "Weak Western Educational System"—it's on the second page—in which he brings out how the Indians have taken the worst from the West, namely it's educational system.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: Is it possible, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will, in the future, turn the tide and gain predominating influence? Change...

Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.

Hari-śauri: He was finished when you told him it was all imaginary.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually. What you can do?

Jagadīśa: Other than yourself, Śrīla Prabhupāda, no one in the world has a vision how to save the world.

Prabhupāda: Because I honestly think of it. Maybe others are also honest, but they do not know the right way. How they can be honest? Just like this Communist movement. They are favoring the labor class and rejecting the capitalist class altogether. They cannot make any adjustment.

Jagadīśa: I've understood that communism is presented by the administrative class when there is a condition of scarcity. When there is opulence, then there is room for personal individual enterprise, but when there is scarcity, that cannot be encouraged, and the common people have to be subjugated. So capitalism and communism are both simply philosophies how to keep the common man satisfied. So it's simply another means of exploitation.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not play, that is real love. Just like father sometimes becomes a horse, and the child rides over, and father enjoys. There is a story about Prime Minister Gladstone. He was prime minister, so many people come to him. So one man came and the doorman said, "He is now busy. Wait." So he was waiting for one hour. Then he became impatient; he wanted to see what this gentleman is doing. So he saw that he has become a horse, and his grandchild is driving him. So why the prime minister had become a horse to take back his grandchild on the back and enjoy? Is it a horse? This is out of love, enjoying. He was not wasting time. The other visitors were waiting. This is love. So to revive that natural life is the opportunity in human life. We have distributed our love in so many material things. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and directly speaks that "You withdraw all these nonsense activities." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). "Try to love Me. Then your life is successful." This is āśliṣya. Personally requested that "Why you are rotting in this material world of birth and death and manufacturing so many ways of life? You give up all this nonsense. Just surrender to Me, you'll be happy." This is natural.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: They cannot even eat the animal when it is fresh. They never eat beef fresh. It must age for at least three weeks, otherwise it is not tasty. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: I remember once there was one man, he was advertising himself, he was touring from one country to another, and he was advertising himself as being an expert meat-eater. And he said, one of his statements was you couldn't eat a beefsteak until it had little white spots all over it, then it was ready to eat.

Prabhupāda: White spot means decomposed. Fungus. Nānā yoni brāhmaṇa kare kadārya bhakṣaṇa kari' tāra janma adho pate yāya.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can point out all the defects in their system but then they say "But there is no proof that such a perfect society has ever existed as you speak of. We have no evidence that such a perfect society exists."

Prabhupāda: You can see, come and see with us. Live in our New Vrindaban, you'll see.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Then they say "Well, that is all right for you, but that is not practical for everyone."

Kīrtanānanda: Why not? We are human beings, and you are human being.

Prabhupāda: So what is not practical for you, our system, your system is also not practical for us. We cannot live in this way. Anyway, if you can maintain a perfect community of plain living, high thinking, that is sufficient. We do not canvass, but naturally they will see that this is convenient. After all, they are human beings. They are learning. So that is part of our business to preach, but to practice personally, that is our main business. To practice personally, that is our main business. Not that everyone will be preacher, but at least his own life be perfect. What is this kijariya?

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: They are free to move from one tree to another, but they don't go outside. Only complaint they are eating flowers.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Yes, they are eating all the flowers.

Prabhupāda: They are also trained, they are not afraid. They are sitting, you go, they are not afraid. They have been trained up that "We are at home." That animals and any birds can be trained. Just like these cows, they know that all of you are friends. Animals can understand. Even if you can make friends with the tigers and lions. Yes. I have seen it. In that New York exhibition, one man was showing me. He was embracing the lion and playing like dog. I've seen it.

Hari-śauri: That used to be a circus trick as well. They used to put their heads in the lion's mouth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: As long as the lion is well fed, you can put your head in his mouth, but if you don't feed him, then it is dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Naturally, if he's animal. They can understand that he's giving you food, he's my friend. The love, friendship, everything is there, even in animals.

Devotee: Except God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That is possible in human life. But animal also can become God conscious by association.

Kīrtanānanda: Sometimes I've heard you say, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that love only exists between similar categories.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, God's speaking, Kṛṣṇa is speaking.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I was studying this nuclear energy in college, thinking that it would save the world. That by the energy they could make bigger tomatoes, bigger corn, and...

Prabhupāda: Bigger deaths. Conclusion is bigger deaths. Everything big. One man was dying, now many hundreds of thousands will die. Bigger deaths. You did not consider it bigger death? Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It was very frustrating, though, because for everything they were trying to do good, they found so many more things bad were coming.

Prabhupāda: That is... Karma jagat means that if you have to raise this house, then you have to cut the wood somewhere. You have to destroy somewhere, and then you can make house. You have to adjust things like that. You cannot create. This house was constructed, created, by destroying somewhere else. Is it not? So where is your creation? Creation is God's creation. He has created everything, and if you want to create, you have to destroy somewhere. That is karma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes these people are called duṣkṛtina. And you've mentioned that the duṣkṛtina, actually he has some intelligence, misused.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the proper treatment. (laughter)

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, there is one common philosophy also held by a lot of religious groups that God can be understood directly from within, and that no guru or spiritual master is necessary. If I desire to approach God, and if He's all-powerful, He can instruct me from within. They feel like this. Therefore they dispute our claim that we understand God in a different way, that you need a genuine spiritual master. And yet when we approach them, one man will say he has God within his heart and he understands God in this way, and another man is receiving instruction from God from within the heart, and yet he's saying another thing.

Prabhupāda: So?

Devotee (2): Yet, they continue to claim like that, so...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, when God teaches Arjuna... His realization from within should be the same as Kṛṣṇa is teaching to Arjuna. It should be confirmed by śāstra.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: He was saying that these people say "God is instructing me from within," but they all have different philosophies.

Prabhupāda: But he's a rascal, and who accepts him, he's a rascal. How do you think that God is speaking to him? How do you accept it? How do you accept that God is speaking to him?

Devotee (2): Well, I don't accept it.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Muci, yes. Their business is shoe maker. So when the cow is dead, they take it, they eat the meat and take the skin and the hoof. They make business without any, what is called, investment. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). That is economic. He gets the skin without any price, and he makes shoes and gets full profit. But that is for a class of men, not for all. Economic gain for a cobbler is not the economic gain for a brāhmaṇa. "One man's food another man's poison."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is considered, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that when a brāhmaṇa is engaged in the activities of plowing and cultivating, that he has become a vaiśya?

Prabhupāda: No. If there is nobody to help, he can do.

Hari-śauri: As long as he keeps up his brahminical standards.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. This is our car?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda? It says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, jaya jaya nityānanda, nityānanda-rāma, yāṅhāra kṛpāte pāinu vṛndāvana-dhāma. That means he has somehow achieved the shelter of Lord Nityānanda because He sent him to Vṛndāvana. Is this also true for the residents here in New Vrindaban? They have achieved the shelter of Lord Nityānanda?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. For nothing. And it is sure certainly you can write down, their Mars going also will be failure. Let it, you take in writing. I may die. I am old man. Take it down. It will be failure. I told ten years before that "It is childish." One press reporter inquired in San Francisco, what is your... "No, this is childish, wasting money." The reporter came to see me in Los Angeles. He remembered that. If you want to spend for nothing like that, you can do that. You have got money.

Brahmatīrtha: If you say to a politician, "Give Śrīla Prabhupāda money..." Like I said to one man running for governor of this state, I said, "Why can't you help the community in New Vrindaban?"

Prabhupāda: Oh, you said?

Brahmatīrtha: He cited to me so many rules and regulations. They're not interested. They're interested in pleasing themselves. A man runs for government, his whole position to run for governor is to please himself so that he can become rich.

Prabhupāda: That's it. Here, you are right. Sense gratification. Nobody wants to do anything. Nixon captured the presidential post for his own satisfaction. And when the people found that "Here is a trick," they agitated and got him down. So this is the difficulty, that andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās the 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are blind and we are being guided by blind men. So the result is catastrophe.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Question number nine. Is a guru essential to one to enter the spiritual path and attain the goal, and how does one recognize one's guru?

Interview with Mike Darby -- June 30, 1976, Wheeling, W. Virginia:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are coming from Detroit? There are so many factories for four-wheel vehicles, and there is no factory to educate man to the right path. Perhaps... This is our little attempt, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to educate to the right path. We are not getting any help, either from the authority... In our own way, as far as possible, we are doing. When people will be educated they will be able to understand who is guru, who is not guru. We can say, but who is going to accept? We say always that they are all rascals, but who will accept our statement? And the state, (if) there had been a department to see what is the qualification of guru, then immediately they would have taken steps. Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time one man falsely presented himself as God. Immediately his head was cut off. Pauṇḍraka. So the state must be very strong to punish the miscreant. But there is no such state.

Darby: This man, Sun Yung Moon, claims to be the Messiaḥ, the Jesus Christ revived.

Prabhupāda: So it is the duty of the Christians. But they are also... What can I say? They are passing resolution according to the time, changing the instruction of Bible. How they can be fixed-up? Our standard is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We accept guru as representative of Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If he speaks what Kṛṣṇa has spoken, then he is guru. Similar in Christianity, if they actually take care that whether one is speaking according to the Ten Commandments, if he is living according to the rules and regulations of the Ten Commandments, then he is guru. Why people accept them? Because they are ignorant, they do not know who is real and who is fake. But the standard is there. Take for example in the Bible, it is said "Thou shalt not kill." But everyone is killing. Killing is the business of the Christians. They are maintaining big, big slaughterhouse. We are maintaining cows here, and there are others, they are maintaining cows for slaughtering. Why? In these Commandments it is clearly said that "Thou shalt not kill." How they will detect? If they are violating themselves the laws, how they will punish the lawbreaker? "Physician, heal thyself." The physician himself is diseased, and he's going to treat other patients.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Armpit.

Prabhupāda: Armpit. Yes. So she was playing ball one hand and one hand a bunch of hair would become, immediately she was taking care. So with this beauty Lord Śiva become mad. As soon as one man sees the breast and this armpit of young woman, then he is finished. (laughs)

Vipina: So what happens to us?

Prabhupāda: It is every man that this is the position. This is the position. And so long we will be charmed with these things, he has to take birth again and again. Viṣayināṁ saṁdarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca.

Vipina: This is the property, Prabhupāda. Excuse me. This is your home, and the devotees are here for you. (inside)

Hari-śauri: I can lock it now if you like, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Vṛṣākapi: Would you like some warm milk, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Rūpānuga: This is for your servants. Push the button, they hear in the back.

Vipina: Cold water for you too, Prabhupāda. Cold water here if you want some.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Very peaceful.

Vṛṣākapi: Many senators and congressmen, they live out here.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They ever come to the Sunday feast?

Vṛṣākapi: Some do. One man does. We've been here a short time, only four months. So we have to advertise more so people will come on the Sunday feast. But I think we will have thousands.

Prabhupāda: That is nice. (break) ...trees very long?

Vṛṣākapi: Just pine trees and oak trees. No fruit trees. (break) He was run over by a car, he was intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: Then? What happened, he was not identified?

Vṛṣākapi: They said that he lived in these woods back here, way back in the woods.

Prabhupāda: Oh, drunkard.

Vṛṣākapi: Yes. They had many cars here all day for two days. All the police, ambulance, TV.

Prabhupāda: To take photograph?

Vṛṣākapi: To take photograph of the place. It became a monument. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Just to see a dead body.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Rūpānuga: I think so.

Prabhupāda: And this is only the propaganda.

Rūpānuga: I agree. I think it was all like a movie set.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They are not going. Arizona is there, only accept. Why they are taking Arizona? That means they are in Arizona. Just like one man was stealing from the room, and there were some sounds, and the master of the house said "Who is there? What is that sound?" The man said, "No, I am not stealing. No, no I am not stealing." It is like that. (laughter)

Rūpānuga: Throughout this article they make comparisons with earth.

Prabhupāda: And there is no man. Just see the foolishness. The same logic, "No, no, I am not stealing." Who asked that you are stealing? He asked for the sound, but he disclosed. It is like that. Why they are bringing Arizona?

Rūpānuga: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you catch them red-handed.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, that I can do. It is like that. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? You are speaking of Arizona. "No, no, I am not stealing." (laughter) It is like that. They could have mentioned other places.

Rūpānuga: Arizona is convenient.

Prabhupāda: That means they are working in Arizona. The mind is there. Arizona-minded because they are working in Arizona, so they are disclosing mind.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they are claiming that this photograph was taken two hundred million miles away from the earth.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Then the answer is the chicken is better than you. He can give you life within seven days. Dr. Chicken is better... They are shameless. Not ordinary, because ordinary a human being will become shameful to speak something nonsense. But they are shameless. In that Bengali, duḥkhānvita(?) One man, one ear was cut off. So in order to hide his cut-off ear he was keeping this side to the river side and this side to the habitation side. So then again his two ears were cut out. Then there is no question of hiding. Both of them were cut out. So these people are duḥkhānvita. When both the ears cut out, there is no shame. They will go on talking all nonsense. Because they are accepted. So many millions of years have passed in the history, nobody could do that, and they are giving hope that life will come after millions of years. Why million? Here is a chicken, he can give life within five days. What credit you'll get after millions of years? But they are duḥkhānvita.(?)So shameless they can speak such nonsense and still pass on as scientists. Tibocham,(?) I think. Duḥkhānvita. No shame, you do not feel that why you are talking nonsense. Am I right or wrong? Here is a chicken, insignificant animal, he is giving life within five days, and we are talking of millions of years, and still we are scientist, Dr. Frog.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We are going to use that example in our preaching.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that these persons, they are holding the... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actual knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: So one thing is that when they are so much careful, that means the book is reacting. Otherwise why they are so careful that they may not come? What do you think?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, sometimes they specifically say, "The others may come, but that one man, we don't want him here." (laughs) He gets out twice as many books as anybody else.

Prabhupāda: So many books, also not many books, why they are so much afraid of distributing these books?

Devotee (1): It means that the book is potent.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (1): It means that the books are potent. We are affecting the material energy.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere in government, India especially, they do not want this movement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the general tendency is...

Prabhupāda: But people are appreciating, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness catches." They're now appreciating.

Devotee (1): Was that a recent article?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, the general people are taking it up more and more. I mean there is a growing number of interested persons.

Prabhupāda: That he has written.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says "Profit without any honor." He quotes you in here. It says "Swami Prabhupāda, spiritual leader of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and Bill Faill, Durban, South Africa, of the Natal Mercury Reporter, had the following dialogue: (reads from magazine) Bill Faill: 'Do you think that Transcendental Meditation is helping people?' Prabhupāda: 'They do not know what real meditation is. Their meditation is simply a farce, another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. So everyone is talking about meditation, but no one knows what meditation really is. These bluffers use the word meditation, but they do not know the proper subject for meditation. They are simply talking bogus propaganda.' Bill Faill: 'But isn't meditation helpful in getting people to think straight?' Prabhupāda: 'No, real meditation means to achieve a state in which the mind is saturated by God consciousness.' "

Prabhupāda: Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). This is the Vedic version. When one man's mind is fully absorbed in the Supersoul, Viṣṇu, that is called meditation. And Bhagavad-gītā confirms,

yoginām api sarveṣāṁ

mad-gatenāntarātmanā

śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ

sa me yuktatamo mataḥ

(BG 6.47)

These are the Vedic version. These rascals, some light, some this, some that.

Rādhāvallabha: There are some quotes here from people describing Maharishi's meditation. It says "A Denver housewife said, 'I turned off when I found that TM' " that's what they call Transcendental Meditation, " 'I turned off when I found that TM is trying to sell me meditation the same way Proctor and Gamble sells me soap.' "

Prabhupāda: Gamble?

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tape recorder, typewriter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, from up here.

Prabhupāda: It was stolen by that caretaker, a black man. He expected some monthly remuneration.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing happened at our temple here. They were employing one man for cleaning the floor. So after a while I told them "Now fire this man." So anyway, they fired him. As soon as they fired him he stole a big air conditioner, worth five hundred dollars. Anyway, he came back later and we got the air conditioner. I caught him and I said "Now bring it back," and I sent a devotee with him and he brought the air conditioner back. (pause) "Hall of Minerals and Gems."

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are having a big exhibit of minerals and gems, Museum of Natural History. One thing about this museum, it can give Bhāradvāja many ideas for doll exhibits.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, I'm going to go there with him when he comes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This particular museum, we used to go when we were children, and fantastic exhibits, really realistic.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, dolls, dioramas...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, all dioramas.

Rāmeśvara: ...of dinosaurs.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, there are different types of education. Just like in the material world. There is education for medical man. There is education for engineer. There is education for so many other departments. Similarly, there is education how to make one man spiritual. So we are going to give education how to become spiritually advanced. That is our purpose.

Rāmeśvara: Spiritually advanced, that is our purpose. No, her question was whether all the people that go to our Gurukula will become spiritually advanced.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, certainly. That is Gurukula education.

Rāmeśvara: Even though some are born with more intelligence and some are born with less intelligence.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. Average intelligence will do.

Interviewer: Well, then conceivably it seems that almost the great majority of society would adhere to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Rāmeśvara: So then, since it doesn't matter whether less intelligent, small intelligent, if they go to Gurukula, they can become spiritually advanced.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because spiritually everyone is free from material bondage. So materially we find one is more intelligent, one is less intelligent, but spiritually everyone can be equally intelligent.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why deported?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, because they are Hare Kṛṣṇas. There's one man, he says, in Osaka that's a big demon, one policeman who simply makes his business to try and find out the devotees. So that one man arrested three of them in one day. Anyway he's just taking another thirty-five thousand out and he's immediately transferring today ten thousand to Gargamuni and he's arranging a bank account jointly with Rāmeśvara in Los Angeles for his other money. Rāmeśvara will put the money in fixed deposit and monthly transfer ten thousand dollars for construction. Gurukṛpā was happy to know that the money could be used for that. He says he's studying, chanting and working very hard.

Prabhupāda: They are trying to drive us away. How to counteract it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we have to do some positive, very subtle positive preaching. I suggested that—if you recall—I suggested that a cultural center should be opened there on the basis of showing dolls, showing movies, restaurant,

Prabhupāda: Books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Books.

Prabhupāda: Literature.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But very vague.

Room Conversation -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Of Satya Sai.

Hari-śauri: One man, he challenged that he could prove that Sai Baba is a fake. So he's written so many letters to Sai Baba to challenge him, but he's never received a reply. So that paper gave this article criticizing Sai Baba like that and other gurus, and then in the same paper there was a very nice article concerning our Jagannātha Cart Festival. So practically they were appreciating that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bona fide and these other people are nonsense.

Indian man: Right. In fact, several people, even in our community in Poughkeepsie, received letters from Satya Sai Baba's followers that "Here is a letter. Make ten copies and send the ten copies to ten different people. If you don't, Satya Sai Baba's thunderbolt will come and strike your family, and they'll be destroyed." Now no guru ever puts a thunderbolt on his devotee, and I said, "If that is a guru, I'll stay ten thousand miles away from him, because my guru is very kind and he'll bless me." I said, "No guru should ever put a thunderbolt on his devotee."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You can turn towards this.

Indian man: At Monticello in Catskill... I don't know if you know it. Monticello in Catskill Mountains here? Just about fifty-sixty miles north, there is Muktananda.

Hari-śauri: Muktananda.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, then there is no need.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I heard people say "We've never seen such a festival, never seen such a parade." I heard these comments. One man said... Someone said, "What's going on?" and he said, "Oh, they have so many things going on here." They were very appreciative. And actually we could not put our full energy into it this year because we were so busy preparing the building simultaneously.

Prabhupāda: And above all, the atmosphere, the weather, was very nice.

Bali-mardana: Oh, yes, Kṛṣṇa has blessed us.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) The breeze was there. We did not feel any...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No discomfort.

Prabhupāda: ...fatigue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And there was nearly four hundred to five hundred devotees there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They will stay in the temple?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they've been staying here.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But the Kṛṣṇa people were not entirely free of harassment. Along the parade route three men, including one who said he was an Evangelical Christian minister, jeered at the parade and called on parade watchers to become Christians. 'Idol worship. This is absolutely ridiculous. Read the Bible,' cried one man who would identify himself only as a normal Christian. There was a brief scuffle when an Indian immigrant tried to tear a large placard out of the hands of another heckler. The placard read 'Turn or Burn.' The police broke things up but made no arrests. 'They are insulting us,' said the Kṛṣṇa follower who declined to identify himself. 'I'm a devotee of Kṛṣṇa and Christ. These people who are doing this in the name of Christ are criminals.' " Very strong statement. "Except for the hecklers, however, the parade was generally very well received by passersby, who enjoyed the three multi-hued floats, the sun, and the chanting and dancing of the young Kṛṣṇa marchers. 'I think it's great,' said Tyrone Adams of Philadelphia, who was paying a visit to his home town of Inglewood, New Jersey. 'I'm not religious, but they're all happy and dancing, and that is what life is all about.' " Even a nonreligious person said that. "In Washington Square a crowd of about three thousand, many of whom were there as part of the normal Sunday afternoon activities, heard Swami Prabhupāda deliver a lecture. Later the crowd was served a free vegetarian feast. Along the side, Kṛṣṇa followers sold Indian sweets, Kṛṣṇa scriptures, and what one speaker described as 'transcendental paraphernalia.' "

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a good article. For the Times especially it's good, because they are very conservative.

Prabhupāda: The Times first published about my activities from Tompkinson Square. They first published.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: He's not representing Guru.... "Better let's have money for fight in the court."

Jayatīrtha: Sometimes I'm sorry that my name also has this word in it.

Prabhupāda: You are Jaya-tirtha. You are victorious. Now whatever is being done, it is by his blessing. Let us work sincerely. Things will be all.... Otherwise it is humanly impossible. It is by his grace.

Jayatīrtha: George was also commenting on that, how one man could have written so many books.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: He could not even read them all, what to speak of writing them all.

Prabhupāda:

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ

paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande

śrī-gurum dīna-tāranam

Mūkaṁ karoti vācālam: "A dumb is a great orator." Mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ. Paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim: "The lame man, lame man is jumping over the mountain." Mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim. Yat-kṛpa: "By the mercy of guru it is possible." So let us cooperate and do this business. Higher authority will be pleased, and that is our success. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If the higher authorities are pleased, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. That is our success. What about that French professor who has written an elaborate review?

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: In this way, I don't think they really appreciate your...

Prabhupāda: Āśīrvāda, āśīrvāda.

Jayatīrtha: Last night, one man came with his family. They wanted to have your darśana. I said, "Prabhupāda is in bed. He's resting." He was insisting, he said, "I do not want to hear him speak, I simply want to see him." I said, "He's in bed. You can't go into his bedroom. How is it possible?" "No, that is all right. I will just go in, and I will see him." (laughter) I said, "What is this? Get out."

Hari-śauri: I remember when we left Bombay, you'd been giving darśana for four and a half hours on the roof.

Prabhupāda: What is the water there?

Bhagavān: Oh, yes, we have our own water.

Prabhupāda: Creek water?

Bhagavān: Underground. It's very nice. Very tasty and light. It's not heavy water.

Jayatīrtha: It's a fact that on the whole, this farm is a wonderful place. I was there a couple of times. I very much liked it.

Prabhupāda: Spring water?

Bhagavān: Yes.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: She has cut hair and white dress, living alone in the temple. Vairagya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). This bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidyā, means detachment. That is the perfection of life. If we remain attached, that is conditional. Māyā has made so many things attractive so that we have to remain attached, and to come out of this attachment is called bhakti. So one man, you can sit down, you can eat. Pradyumna, you can eat.

Pradyumna: I've taken some milk before.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you don't require. Now you can eat, go on. Prasāda prapti mātrena. Our Jayatīrtha prabhu is a good manager. Management, looking after. Yes, he's a very good manager, experienced.

George Harrison: Hm?

Prabhupāda: He's experienced manager.

Jayatīrtha: Not very good managing this place now.

George Harrison: Well, it seems okay. Seems to be taken over pretty good. Peacefully.

Prabhupāda: He was also managing Los Angeles. Now we have brought him here to see things nicely managed.

George Harrison: It feels good, nice vibrations.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One thing, Jayatīrtha, why don't you sprinkle this water in this ground?

Jayatīrtha: Well, we do sprinkle it.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Philosophy.

George Harrison: I don't know how anybody could have written it, it's difficult enough to read all that amount.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they are surprised how one man can write so many books, but it is Kṛṣṇa's grace. Otherwise not possible. Human being, it is not possible.

Mukunda: That one series of books I brought you, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hari-śauri? There is no sweet melon.

Mukunda: And every single word is written by hand, five hundred years ago.

Prabhupāda: You are in the same house?

George Harrison: Hm? Henley.

Prabhupāda: Henley, yes. Very nice house.

George Harrison: Hm, very nice. I work from the house. I have a studio, recording studio in the house. So I don't have to go to London anymore.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you have all arrangement there. That's very nice. How many acres?

George Harrison: It's about thirty-five.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, brahmacārī gurukule.

Hari-śauri: I think that's in Seven, Two.

Harikeśa: Sixteenth Chapter, first verse, I think. It's the first verse, brahmacārī gurukule.

Jayatīrtha: One man came to the temple, he heard that his daughter had participated in one of our fire sacrifices, and he was afraid that...

George Harrison: Fire sacrifices?

Jayatīrtha: When we have initiations we have a fire sacrifice. He was afraid that she had been sacrificed. (laughter)

Hari-śauri:

śrī-nārada uvāca

brahmacārī guru-kule

vasan dānto guror hitam

ācaran dāsavan nico

gurau sudṛḍha-sauhṛdaḥ

(SB 7.12.1)

"Nārada Muni said, A student should practice completely controlling his senses. He should be submissive and should have an attitude of firm friendship for the spiritual master. With a great vow, the brahmacārī should live at the gurukula, only for the benefit of the guru."

Prabhupāda: Next.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: And he invites friends.

Bhagavān: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Bhagavān: And one man, after the devotee was there, the next week he sent two thousand dollars in the mail.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Bhagavān: And then he came to the Paris temple and he gave another thousand dollars. And then two weeks later he sent again two thousand dollars, and then he moved in with his whole family.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)

Bhagavān: They are here now. He had his own business and everything, very successful. His children are in the Gurukula and he is doing saṅkīrtana.

Prabhupāda: His wife also?

Bhagavān: She is the secretary. Very nice.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom they came?

Bhagavān: South of France.

Prabhupāda: South of France.

Room Conversation -- August 4, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's their only qualification.

Prabhupāda: If I cheat somebody and get some money, you are very expert.

Hari-śauri: Top-class businessman.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: First-class scientist. And the best politician. Just like in America, once they'd found Nixon was cheating, now they're investigating one man after another, and every one, they're finding all the same.

Prabhupāda: America, cheating is a policy. How a real estate man, lawyer, they're simply planning how to cheat.

Hari-śauri: The lawyers are the worst because they know the law. So they know how to cheat in such a way that they can stay within the law. They said Ambarīṣa's lawyer cheated us out of so many things when we got that Detroit property. (end)

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is more or less. Sometimes you have got 110 degree temperature and sometimes you have got seventy degree temperature. But the disturbance is there. Either 110 degree or seventy degree or thirty degree, you'll have to feel the disturbance. You cannot stop it. So either you take the cause this age, or this country, or this atmosphere, we can say so, but it will continue. That is the nature of the material world. If you think that 110 degree is too much, let it be one hundred degree... That you concoct like that. In fact any such temperature will disturb you. That's a fact. You can think that if it would have been 100 degree, it would have been very nice, but that's not the fact. Either 110 degree or 100 degree, it is disturbance. Then how can you stop it? Anyone who wants to stop it, he's intelligent. And that is described here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). One has to understand this fundamentally, that so long I'll get this material body, I'll have to suffer. Maybe differences of degrees, but I will have to suffer. So my endeavor should be how to become independent of this material body. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Not to make a distinction of different degrees. Different degrees—one position, one man's food, another man's poison. The same degree. If you think that it is nice, another man will suffer. So suffering will continue. That is not possible (indistinct). It is the nature of material world, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This material world is full of miseries. That they do not understand. Miserable condition they are accepting as pleasing. That is called ignorant.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is theory. That is not fact. (break) That is given by nature or God, whatever you say. That is not in your intelligence.

Hari-śauri: God may have given us all the basic things, but it's taken man's intelligence to make the...

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but if God has given you so many basic things, then you can use your intelligence. Otherwise, your intelligence... There is a story that one man was asked by his friend, "Have you got intelligence?" He began to search out here. So, "What is this?" He said, "Intelligence means when there is money here. Otherwise, I am even though I have got intelligence, useless." You can utilize your intelligence provided you have got the means. Intelligence also you cannot utilize properly if there is no supply.

Hari-śauri: Actually, Svarūpa Dāmodara pointed out when we were in Washington that most of these big, big men, they admit that they don't know where their inspiration comes from; it just comes. Just like that Mozart or one of those composers. He just used to write the music, but he had no idea where it was coming from. He did not think it out.

Prabhupāda: And that is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā: mattaḥ, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). So intelligence comes from God. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca.

Atreya Ṛṣi: One of the questions Iranians ask a lot is that if He is giving us intelligence, why doesn't He give us enough intelligence so that we could be God conscious?

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: By knowledge. Here is knowledge. You have not surrendered to God, you take the knowledge from God that "You surrender to Me." That is knowledge. Why don't you take it? Where is the question of ignorance? You may be in ignorance, but when the knowledge comes directly, that "You surrender to Me," then you can do it. Just like a man is fallen in a dark well. He's crying, "Save me, save me," and one man drops a rope, "Please catch it, I'll save you." If you don't catch, then whose fault it is? Kṛṣṇa comes directly, paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8), and He says, "Do it." If you don't do it, then whose fault it is? It is your fault. You don't catch it. Kṛṣṇa says, "Here is the rope, catch it," then whose fault is it?

Mrs. Sahani: Excuse me, once you surrender to God, will you still have to look for an authority to guide you, or Kṛṣṇa helps you to find Him?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is giving direction, but we have no such intelligence. Therefore Kṛṣṇa advises:

tad viddhi praṇipātena

paripraśnena sevayā

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

You go to a person who has seen the truth and you understand. Because they are not understanding Kṛṣṇa directly or through the agent, they are misled, they are misinterpreting. That is their folly. They'll not understand Kṛṣṇa directly, neither they'll understand through Kṛṣṇa's agent. Therefore they are misguided.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, but first thing is that if one is ordered to be hanged, he has to be hanged. Destined. But these people, they do not see who has ordered because they do not accept authority. They will say, "It is by chance." They have not seen who has ordered, who is that authority. They cannot explain; therefore they say "Chance."

Jñānagamya: They have no science of astrology, so they cannot understand the universe and how it's working.

Prabhupāda: Astrology... I don't think they believe in astrology. There is no question of astrology. We practically we see that one man ordered to be hanged by the justice, he has to be hanged. That is destiny. One has not seen who has ordered, but he sees that "This man is being hanged." He cannot explain; he says, "By chance." So whose explanation is right? The chance explanation or the destiny explanation—which is right?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Actually, logically, I cannot see how there is any chance, not a single. When I was a child I used to give an argument to my friend, and he used to say, "A chance. Everything is chance. It is like a lottery ticket." I said to him, "If you don't buy the lottery ticket and win $50,000, then that is chance. But if you buy the lottery ticket..."

Prabhupāda: How it is chance?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: There is no chance, because you bought the lottery ticket, so...

Prabhupāda: Your destiny. Then your destiny.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They miss the order and the controller and the organizer...

Prabhupāda: That is whole purpose—how to defy God. That is their whole plan.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because God is equal to everyone. He sees that these rascal asuras are misguided, so He sends His representative, He comes Himself, there is śāstras, guidance, and everything. The whole propaganda is how these rascal asuras can be turned into devatā. This is equality in the eyes of God. Very simple thing. Just like government puts a person into prison house. The idea is to correct him. Not that government is enemy of a class of men, they are put into the prison house. Government is equal. But there is department of punishing this... (aside:) (indistinct) Government is equal to everyone, but there is this department of reformation which is called jail department. He's punished so that he may come to his senses that "I have done wrong." But unfortunately there are stubborn criminals, they are not corrected. They go and again come, go and again come. One term finished, another term. One term finished... That is transmigration. One term finished, punishment, and another term begins. He creates another term. So that is daiva netreṇa. That is superior arrangement. Now this rascal has finished his human form of life, now again he has committed so many sins, let him become a dog. Again comes to the human form of life, again one chance is given. This not good, but he does not accept, so again he becomes a tree-stand up for ten thousand years. Nothing is a chance. Everything is under supreme control. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). But he is a rascal. He simply defies and suffers. One man is being slapped with shoes, so he is shameless, he says, "Oh, you have beaten me with shoes. All right, if you touch my wife, I'll sue you." Then the wife is beaten with shoes, then he says, "Oh, you have beaten my wife. All right, touch my son, I will sue you." In this way every member is being beaten with shoes, and he is simply challenging that "I'll sue, I'll sue." This is going on. He's punished one after another, but still he is so shameless that still he defies the authority. That is called asura. They're not very intelligent. "Next time I will see. Wait millions of years, I shall see..." So we have to deal with asuras. This is the position.

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ...I.A.S. civil service examination before one man is posted in some responsible office. Similarly, to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa, as He says na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu (BG 18.69), one has to pass examination, severe test of examination. All the big, big devotees we see. Nārada Muni, before becoming Nārada Muni, he had to pass through severe examination, test. That chance is there in the human form of life, to pass the examination, test. But they are passing this human life with ordinary animal propensities. They are not trained up to pass the examination and be recognized by God. That civilization is lost, Vedic civilization, to prepare the human beings for passing the test, examination for being recognized by God.

tapasā brahmacaryeṇa

śamena ca damena ca

tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ

yamena niyamena vā

(SB 6.1.13)

These things are required, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To pass the examination, one must follow a strict, austere life.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa, beginning tapasya, austerity. Brahmacarya, celibacy. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa śamena damena (SB 6.1.13), controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Tyāgena, by renunciation. Satya-śaucābhyām, by following truthfulness and cleanliness. Yamena niyamena vā, by practicing yoga, yama-niyama. These are the different items of being qualified. But all these things can be done by one stroke, kevalayā bhaktyā, by engaging oneself in devotion, vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. It is old man's disease. Liver doesn't work nicely, teeth does not work nicely, there is susceptibility to cold. Old age. All my young friends, they have all died. Nobody's living. One or two still. You know that Dinanath came? I think you know. He's living. He's seventy-five, seventy-six. Little younger than me.

Hari-śauri: Who's that?

Harikeśa: Dinanath Mishra in Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: One man, a case pleader.

Hari-śauri: That very thin man? Oh, I know. Yes. He was very sick actually when we were there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he was sick. He was half dead.

Hari-śauri: What about those people when we went back to where you used to live? When we came back from Māyāpur and we went out that night to, what they called? Your old friend's house?

Prabhupāda: Oh, Mulliks.

Hari-śauri: Mulliks.

Prabhupāda: They are just like my younger brothers. Their elder brothers were contemporaries. They are all died.

Hari-śauri: Finished.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They observe.

Guest (1): They observe it.

Prabhupāda: So to some extent they have got some affection for Kṛṣṇa but not to that extent. They, there maybe one man may seeing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes.

Yaśomatīnandana: I think generally people are more attracted to our society by the behavior of devotees rather than philosophy, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Philosophy is there but generally when they see the devotees, and by association, purification comes. As you say, there are so many books about... If the movie is made, just like our Hare Kṛṣṇa People movie, this is showing the practical example of how one can live Kṛṣṇa consciously and solve all the problems of the day-to-day life. Such a movie can attract people to become devotees.

Guest (1): For the students it is good idea.

Yaśomatīnandana: For everyone. I mean...

Prabhupāda: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.

Guest (1): They will misinterpret the whole thing. They will misrepresent, the danger is still more there. It is rather more with the educated people that the danger is there than the uneducated. But to reach the uneducated we have, I was thinking this is a better media. This is one of the medias perhaps, I wouldn't say better. Perhaps one of the medias by which we can reach them in a larger crowd.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is back to home, back to Godhead. Home is here in India, and again back to Godhead? And somebody say, "Here is America. It is my home." And when you say that he'll be kicked out after some years, then home finished. They are satisfied, that home finished, that's all. In such ignorance they are living. And for this home they are busy. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī, attached to this home from which he'll be kicked out. Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll take it out, everything." Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). "I come before you as death and take everything, whatever you have got." That's a fact. Everyone is accumulating, but at the time of death he'll be forced to give it up. He'll be forced to give up the body which he is maintaining so nicely. That he is experiencing. Still, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Because he does not know what is self-interest he remains ignorant and dies. This is going on. And leaders-andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Blind leaders, they are encouraging, "Yes, kick yourself. You live here as nationalist. This is your interest. And fight between one nation to one nation, one man to one man." And they have taken this is value. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Next verse you read.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Vāsughoṣa: About two months ago in Hyderabad they had a very big Bhāgavata-saptāha. One thousand and eight brāhmaṇas chanting Bhāgavatam for seven days, and it was presided over by a big Vaiṣṇava sannyāsī, Rāmānuja-sampradāya. And all the local Marwaris, they gave lakhs of rupees for prasādam and so many things.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They hurt our collection, I think.

Vāsughoṣa: No, they haven't given anything to our temple, but for this, the same people, some of them, most of them refused even to become members. One man who refused me to become a member, he gave fifty thousand rupees for prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Why they refused us or help us?

Hari-śauri: He's talking about some Bhāgavata-saptāha they had there.

Prabhupāda: Because it is...

Acyutānanda: They are the "Hindus." We are the foreigners.

Yaśomatīnandana: But they don't go too long, because in Ahmedabad they have started one Gujarat, one Bhāgavata-hṛdaya-pīṭha.(?) Just outside Ahmedabad. And he had a plan to build a whole huge temple and dharmaśālās and schools, gurukulas. That Krishna Shankara Shastri, that poor fellow, he started something, and now he has scarcity, he cannot find funds to finish his project. So the project is lying idle for almost two years. They collected sixty, seventy lakhs initially, but then...

Prabhupāda: Sixty seventy lakhs? And he squandered it?

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, our rasa, it can be tasted by the topmost intellectual man and it can be tasted by the lowest...

Guest: No intellect at all. I know that.

Prabhupāda: But why? Because this intellect, highest or lowest, that is in relationship with the body. But it is beyond the body. It is not... sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). It is beyond the three guṇas. The body is of the material guṇas—sattva, rajas, tamas. One man is good man, one man is passionate, one is foolish. Guṇa. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo'sya. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān (BG 13.22)? Find out this. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi. Everything is explained. Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is matchless. We are reading and re-reading, and every time we find much more, you see? Terrific. And you have put the simplest method—"as it is" as you say. Why complicate, tinker this... That is why... You know we can be safely called intellectuals. But you know we are tired of it. Tired. We cannot find anything. Neti neti vicāra te patra patra... Impossible. Then what do you get out of the life? The joy, rasa (Bengali) And that is the main substance. To get it you cannot get neti neti (Bengali)...

Prabhupāda: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi (BG 13.22). Puruṣaḥ. Why you cannot find this verse? What you are...

Mahāṁśa: Puruṣaḥ prakṛti, bhuñjante...

Prabhupāda: Tad guṇān. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi. You did not find?

Guest: (Bengali) Bhāgavatam series twenty volume.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Seventeen volumes. Seventeen.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Chanting is the main thing. Chanting and distributing prasādam.

Jayapatākā: If we get prasādam, then... I think that they all contribute some grain. They are very poor agricultural people, but there's no theft there. I asked. There's one man who has three acres. Three bighās of land he's giving. So they just grow their rice there and...

Prabhupāda: You can ask that instead of making paraṭā, a light khicuḍi in the morning. That is...

Hari-śauri: Instead of that sabji and everything.

Prabhupāda: No, sabji can make.

Jayapatākā: Khicuḍi instead of paraṭā?

Prabhupāda: So khicuḍi will be easy, like...

Hari-śauri: You want some khicuḍi and the potato?

Prabhupāda: Put in the khicuḍi and tomato. Like in the morning.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Do you want anything like puri or anything to eat with it?

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Just khicuḍi and the vegetable.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You can bring so many men and keep everyone in charge of such places, and it will develop. Money, there is no scarcity. But the difficulty is as soon as we establish, the immigration, "You go away." This is... What is this? You say the MLA and this Tarun Kanti." This is our difficulty. Otherwise there is no difficulty. We can take all the charge and develop them very nicely." So if one man is kept in charge, and after few months he's advised, "Go away," then all his training goes to hell and we have to spend another ten thousand rupees. This is the difficulty. What... We are not... Not a single case there is that we have taken any part in politics. So give us some facility. We can take charge of everything. Tell them that actually that is fact, that there is no scarcity of money. We can bring money from America and develop. There is no difficulty at all. The difficulty is the immigration department. You can say that "Prabhupāda has put this philosophy, andha..." What is that? Paṅgu. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Blind and... Depends on this... Blind and... I think you have already know. Blind man, lame man. One man is blind, another man is lame. Both of them are useless. But when they combine, the blind man takes the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man gives direction to the blind man, "Go this way. Go this way." So he walks. So both of them are benefited. So America has got money but blind. And India has got culture but lame. So let us combine. Then things will be done very nice. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Just like I am the same man. I was finding difficulty to start this mission in India, very, very difficult. With great hardship I published three books. But as soon as I went America, the andha-paṅgu-nyāya became successful. So this is the the position. So instead of becoming envious from political... We have nothing to do with...

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Nobody is useless. I was also useless. I could not do in India alone anything. This is... Again this example (laughs). Two useless makes useful. Intelligence alone cannot work. Money is required. One man was challenged, "You have no intelligence." So he said, "Yes." He was searching these..."No, why you are searching here?" "No, here is intelligence. If here is money, then my intelligence can work. Otherwise what is the use of intelligence?" But he was searching here," Whether I have got intelligence?" Simply intelligence... In industry also: land labor capital, organization, four things. Simple capital will not do. Simple organization will not do. A man may have very good brain power, organization, but if he has no money-useless. So four things required: land, labor, capital, organization. That minister in Raṅganātha (?), he is inclined to spend huge income of Tirupati, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But he is bound up by other colleagues. They are applying the money. So he's willing to call all the ministers if I can convince them. I shall try it. Just... In the Bhagavad-gītā, that is, yajñārthe karma. Everyone is karmī. So the karmīs, the village cultivators or big men industrialists, they are going to Tirupati. Whatever then can spare, they are offering. That is yajñārthe. If this money is taken and again if it is brought into karmī, then it is misleading. Karmīs are giving them. Just like people are giving us money. They are karmīs. But because they are giving us and we are engaging the money in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so the money is fully utilized. But if this money again taken and again to the karmīs....

Room Conversation About Blitz News Clipping -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: "Evidence of fraud"? No?

Hari-śauri: That's Sai Baba.

Pradyumna: One man is trying to prove Sai Baba is fraud. One professor.

Hari-śauri: He's a scientist. He says he can prove that Sai Baba's making things appear and disappear is just a trick.

Prabhupāda: He is a fraud. What is this paper?

Hari-śauri: This is the same issue.

Pradyumna: But there's something very interesting. When he manifests something, he gives evidence, he says, "This cannot be a creation, because to be a creation, to be God you must be creator. To be creator you must produce something which is uniquely not made by anyone else." So he said he's only making things that are already created by someone else—a watch. So he is...

Hari-śauri: He's producing a watch, then it's a watch that's made by some manufacturer. It's not made by Sai Baba. Like that. So there was a comment that even if he has some... He may have some supernatural power, but he's not God.

Pradyumna: He has some yogic siddhi, but he cannot be God because he does not create.

Prabhupāda: So this paper is against Sai Baba also?

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, you have seen.

Gargamuni: I have seen the photo. Big place.

Jayapatākā: That is still existing?

Prabhupāda: Very big place. That you have seen this Keśavajī Gauḍīya Maṭha in Mathurā? No. There is Caitanya Mahāprabhu Deity. That Deity was there. When I closed that I brought that big, big sannyāsī and delivered them, they will show.

Jayapatākā: One man cheated you there? Some land? No.

Prabhupāda: The building belonged to a big zamindar. So Prabhākāra arranged. So it was to be given to me, and I wanted to start the League of Devotees from there. So I spent some money, whatever money I had, and it was going on. But in the meantime, this Lilavati Munshi, Mrs. At that time she was wife of the governor. Her husband, K. M. Munshi. She had some organization of foreign women. So somehow or other she got imagination that "This house is very nice." She was governor's wife. So it was not given to me rightly, but I was using. So she wanted that house. Through collector and through all government officials pressure. She wrote me later on, that "Bhaktivedantajī, you wanted to organize, but you could not. But I have got this institution. Why not give it to me?" So, of course, there were many lawyer friends. They advised me that "You do not give up. You should litigate." So I thought, "Who is going to litigate? Let me go to Vṛndāvana." So I left. So at Mathurā I delivered the Deity to this Keśavajī Gauḍīya Maṭha, and I made my place in Vṛndāvana.

Gargamuni: You had such a hard struggle in the beginning.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy. Because we want eating, so He is giving His mercy through eating. Eating nobody will refuse. So by eating he is being favored by Kṛṣṇa. This is the process. You understand Bengali? Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy, He's very merciful. Koribāre jihvā jay. We are accustomed to eat, go to the restaurant, go to the hotel, go to here and there, at home and so on. Simply eating, eating. So this is jihvā lampaṭa. Prostitution of the tongue. Just like a woman prostitute is not satisfied with one man. Similarly, our tongue is like a prostitute. It is not satisfied with simple foods. Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes on the street, sometimes on the restaurant, sometimes a hotel. Regular prostitution. It is called tongue prostitution. There are prostitution of three things: prostitution of the tongue, prostitution of the belly, and prostitution of the genital. Three kinds of. Udara-upastha-vegam. Jihvā-udara-upastha-vegam (NOI 1). Straight line. So to stop this prostitution is to control the tongue. The tongue prostitution means he wants to eat varieties of foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, "All right, you eat varieties of prasāda." Then tongue prostitution is controlled and naturally the belly and the genital controlled. Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay. To own victory over the tongue, He has given varieties... Therefore all nice things should be offered to Kṛṣṇa and then take prasāda. They will be benefited.

Maṇihāra: This is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement, special.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay.. Jaya means you conquer over the tongue. If you do not give tongue Kṛṣṇa prasāda then the tongue will dictate, "Why not go to the restaurant?" So this is the process. Give everyone nice prasāda. His tongue will be conquered and he'll be conquered. He'll be able to conquer over the prostitution of the senses, and then he'll become a devotee. Hyderabad papers have given us good publicity. Very nice.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: The brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. To maintain the body, just like we require the head, the arms, the belly, and the legs, similarly, we must maintain the brain of the society, the brāhmaṇa; and the arms of the society, kṣatriyas; and the belly of the society, the vaiśyas; and the legs of the society, the śūdra. Everything is required. Not that simply brain is required and leg is not required. No, everything is required under proper guidance for the total benefit of the society. So direction is there. That is śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya... If we do not care for the śāstra, whimsically manufacture our own ways of life, na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti, it will never be successful. Na sukham. And there will be no happiness. Na parāṁ gatim. Therefore the whole process is yajñārthāt karmaṇa. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Yajña means the Supreme Lord, Viṣṇu. Yajña means yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. After performing yajña, if we enjoy life, then there is no sinful reaction. Otherwise, bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). So all directions are there in the śāstra, and the essence of all Vedic literature is the Bhagavad-gītā. So at the present moment, our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that it doesn't matter what kind of state it is, but it should follow the principle of yajña. Yajñārthe karmaṇa. Otherwise, we shall be responsible. Just like, for example, a military man, what is his business? His business is killing. So by the government order he is killing, and the more number of enemies he kills, he gets medal, reward. But the same man, if he kills one man, he'll be hanged—for his own sense gratification. He cannot argue that "In the military camp I have killed so many men and I was rewarded, and now I have killed one man and I am going to be hanged. Why?" The question may be raised. No foolish man will raise the question. That means that killing is under the superior order, and this killing is for your sense gratification. So if you do anything for our sense gratification then it will be stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12).

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it. We have got many other films also. How we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabhārata Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindaban (Hindi). They gave this heading. And they gave all details how to use the land New Vrindaban in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land and they are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully. So we want to make an example here with this six hundred acres of land, if it is given to us. Kṛṣṇa's formula is there. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Produce sufficient quantity of anna. Everyone will be satisfied. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never says by factory bhavanti bhūtāni. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). This formula should be... That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. Kṛṣṇa's mission, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa's mission (Hindi). Kṛṣṇa to carry personally, (indistinct), aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa nirākāra. He's personally speaking. And Vyāsadeva writes bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- September 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is not possible for the animal. Therefore to remain happy within yourself, that is a prerogative of the human being. But we are not trying for that purpose. We are trying to be happy by eating, by sleeping, by sex or by defense. This is our platform of happiness. A dog cannot go to the restaurant, but a human being, if he goes to a restaurant and he can eat palatable dishes, he thinks he's happy. But what is that eating? In your standard you feel happiness, whereas on the street you'll find a pig, he's happy by eating stool. One man's food another man's poison. So eating happiness is there but the standard different. Therefore this eating is common affair, and happiness derived from eating is as good by the dog as by the pig and human being.

Indian man: Your idea is clear.

Prabhupāda: So we should know... Happiness is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam (BG 6.21). What is happiness, that is beyond the senses. The sense happiness is there by the pig and the man. But his standard of sense happiness is different from the man's. Standard may be different, but the happiness derived from the subject matter is the same. There is no difference.

Indian man: So happiness lies above the senses. Above our indriyas.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He can take them.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Take them out.

Haṁsadūta: That's what I'm afraid, that he's going to...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Your men you take.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I am only requesting you to return the temple devotees which you have stolen. That's all. I don't want one man from this party. We will manage it. Just return the temple devotees.

Haṁsadūta: (talking back and forth to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa-indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yesterday I told him that temple painting is going on... Who is painting? I never saw. (Hindi conversation)

Akṣayānanda: So we should have one kitchen only. One kitchen? As we had discussed last night. Now we have a Deity kitchen and a devotee kitchen. We also have a guest house kitchen.

Prabhupāda: Why three?

Akṣayānanda: So the devotee kitchen and Deity kitchen could be made into one.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's decided.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is that other magic? Generally he...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Generally, it is said he blesses sick people who have diseases and they get cured.

Prabhupāda: So that is done by medical men also, so what is the excellence. Huh?

Hari-śauri: One man said that once he was traveling in his car and a train came, and the train hit the car and he was thrown out, but somehow or other he survived. He said he was thrown out to the left hand side and the train stopped, came to a sudden standstill just as it hit the car. So then he said he went to see Sai Baba, and then Sai Baba looked at him and he said, "Oh, you have been in an accident and your car was hit by the train. But I stopped the train and threw you to the left and therefore you were not injured." Like this. And he also mentioned that at that time you should think of God.

Prabhupāda: If he can do so, can he save him from death? If he's so powerful.

Indian man: That is very easy. I can also do that. (laughter) I know the trick.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the trick?

Indian man: I'll not tell it to you. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: No. These tricky things are... They have no...

Room Conversation -- September 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not so. First of all, give them, then we shall see later on. Why immediately want facilities? Or he can, the other man can go with the brahmacārīs.

Harikeśa: The younger one.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes, somebody may go to the brahmacārīs. Just now make them accommodated there, then we shall see what to do. That "First of all you stay here, then we shall see what is convenient to you then."

Harikeśa: Because they're in an awful small room. If I put three in that room, that one man who's already there may become upset.

Prabhupāda: He has already gone there?

Harikeśa: No, I mean I know. I've been there. But that one man who's there now...

Prabhupāda: So four men cannot live in that room?

Harikeśa: Three men not possible. Because they've got two beds in there. Two of these big huge...

Prabhupāda: At least you provide them two men there and one man with brahmacārīs. That's all. Not that we can spare so many rooms.

Harikeśa: If I ask that man who's already there to go to the brahmacārīs, he may become offended.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you do that. He can go to the brahmacārīs. That's all.

Devotee: You can give him one of those sannyāsī rooms in the brahmacārīs.

Room Conversation -- September 26, 1976, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: And I'm convinced Prabhupāda, that in this temple, right here, you can make every week at least two, three life members, and you can sell thousands of rupees worth of books. Yesterday I started one man, this boy Ikṣvāku from Germany. I said, "Just go around and greet people and show them around and sell them books." And the first few hours he sold seventy rupees worth of books. And if I have a few people who just walk around and they walk right up to the guests and say, "How do you do? My name is so and so. I come from New York. What is your name? Where do you come from?"

Prabhupāda: Last night all visitors came, all respectable gentlemen.

Haṁsadūta: Last night four people came, they were all big businessmen. One man had been working in a big business in Germany. He spoke German perfectly well. He was an Indian man. He lives in Agra. And so many people. Because Vṛndāvana is the heart of India, every Indian comes once in his lifetime to Vṛndāvana...

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Haṁsadūta: ...if not more times. And everyone will come to our temple.

Prabhupāda: Due to Vṛndāvana, our temple is advertised all over India. Everyone says.

Haṁsadūta: We haven't even got to go out. We have simply to receive people nicely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...from Vṛndāvana. I was residing here after retirement. That Rādhā-Dāmodara, they are being paid monthly?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You got the receipt?

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Akṣayānanda: I thought it was better when they were eating at noon. At least they'd work before they ate, work before eating. But I don't know. But even then the thing wasn't going any better.

Hari-śauri: I've found if you want things to go on, you have to make them do it. That's all. Because they don't have sufficient realization to volunteer to work.

Prabhupāda: They have to be... One man say, "You come here, you do this, you do this." Then it will be done. The temple commander must be a very able man.

Hari-śauri: He's got to be a heavy man. I was telling Haṁsadūta when I was here I tried for so long to get the kīrtana going at night time, and they wouldn't turn up or they'd fall asleep, or this or that. And so many people would refuse to do it. I could only get maybe five or six men out of the whole temple who would volunteer to do it. So we worked it out, we made a list of all the people who could possibly chant at night. Everyone. I even put the pūjārīs down because we were short of men. Then we said...

Prabhupāda: No, pūjārīs they have to rise early.

Hari-śauri: Well, yes, but apart from that... We told them, "Now you either chant this one hour at night or you go." We made them chant. And then everything went very nicely. No one...

Prabhupāda: Why don't you do now?

Hari-śauri: Well I told him that. He's going to do it.

Prabhupāda: Not tell him, but you do it. (chuckles)

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How is it possible? The British Empire was established on management. They did not bring men from England. Few managers, that's all. That is called management. One man can control hundreds and thousands of men, that is management. (long pause) Locally attracted. These Britishers came here and they introduced this zamindari system.

Haṁsadūta: The what?

Prabhupāda: Zamindari system.

Haṁsadūta: Zamindar.

Prabhupāda: Landlord.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So any third class man, if he's given some land, naturally he will be very much pleased. They created that aristocracy. So he selected some men that you give me four annas per bigha and what ever you can collect that is your... That is the old system in India, zamindari system. So collector, collector, the local collector, he appointed somebody. They used to give one lease, that you give government four annas per bigha, and whatever you can collect, that is your business. So that created an aristocratic society and they all supported Britishers, because they're obliged.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: For me it is better to remain in Vṛndāvana or die. (laughter) Hm. Because they may be very envious, "Here is the man who is behind all this." (laughter)

Haṁsadūta: Yes. In Germany, this one man he wrote that this movement is very dangerous, because these boys and girls who have come to this movement, they completely, they make themselves completely subservient to the dictation of one man.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Haṁsadūta: What ever the man will say, they will do.

Prabhupāda: Charmistic? What is called? Charmistic Guru? He has said Dr. ...

Hari-śauri: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic. (laughs) Yes, what is that charismatic?

Haṁsadūta: Charisma means a person who has a very strong attraction, he attracts.

Prabhupāda: He has said, actually our whole movement is going on on this. Everyone is carrying the charismatic, (laughs) all.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, they know there's something different about our movement, I mean from any other. Everybody who sees the devotees for the first time, they immediately know these people are completely different from anyone else.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: To respect and love the spiritual master as God. Therefore it is brainwash.

Haṁsadūta: This is the strength of our movement, faith in the guru and śāstra.

Prabhupāda: And everyone is writing, let them write that. So they see that, "Why this one man is so respectfully accepted, it is brainwash."

Hari-śauri: Hm.

Prabhupāda: They may sometimes give me trouble.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, generally it happens like that. If someone becomes very prominent, then they want to remove him. This is the tendency in the world.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, because the demons, they think anyone who will allow themselves to become the servant of someone else, then they think he has got very weak character. Then they accuse the person who is in charge of manipulating that person.

Prabhupāda: Just like there are so many men now, they are against this Sai Baba.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is actually doing that brainwash. But they don't think of... (break)

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, no. They have taken it. Now, they are after intelligent person. They are... That has been expressed by this gentleman that it is going like epidemic. They must (indistinct). That is their feeling. That Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is spreading so fast, like epidemic, we must take some steps. That is already, they have expressed their feeling. And you said that in Australia, there one man said...

Hari-śauri: Yes, psychiatrist...

Prabhupāda: ...that if the people take to this movement, then where you stand? (about Hari-śauri:) He has also expressed. What is that?

Hari-śauri: There's a psychiatrist (indistinct). Sydney city council are trying to have us banned from the city altogether and they took us to court and we didn't contest the case and they lost. And then afterwards they, they worked out they spent $10,000 and so much manpower to try and get rid of us and it didn't work. And one newspaper man went to a psychiatrist and he asked him, "Can you explain why this huge reaction against just a few people singing and dancing in the street? So he said, "Basically it's because the city-dwellers feel very threatened by our simple lifestyle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. So this whole western civilization is threatened.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are afraid of the Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.

Hari-śauri: They have so many books now on so-called sex education, so many of them.

Prabhupāda: Simply wasting time. There is a story about this. One man was canvassing, hawking. Hawker?

Hari-śauri: Yes, hawker.

Prabhupāda: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection, cow protection." He has written one book to take care of the cows. So one old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all give this book to your mother because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature. Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called Kāma-śāstra. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year... 1940's maybe. So one young woman was traveling, and another young man was traveling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Formerly, when I was in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple, there was a khol manufacturer here. Is he here still? He supplied me khol very nice, very big. This khol was taken to Germany or...

Akśayananda: What was his name?

Prabhupāda: I forgot.

Akśayananda: There is one man here.

Prabhupāda: In here?

Akśayananda: One man is here, but I don't know if it's the same one.

Prabhupāda: Can you call him?

Akśayananda: Yes. I think he's just a repairman though.

Prabhupāda: Whatever he may be. Yes. We must have very good khol. You have no good khol.

Akśayananda: I had one under repair. I had two under repair with him. But he takes a long time. I am waiting now for repair.

Prabhupāda: So you can call him.

Akśayananda: Okay. You'd like to meet him?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If the same man, then I can ask him to prepare some khol.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Well, in your country there is some adjustment because it is very big country and you are all intelligent people. In other countries they... But even though you have got resources, if you not properly utilize it, then the bad time is coming. You should expect. If your energy is all engaged in manufacturing tires and wheels, then who will go to the... Actually I have seen in your country. Now the farmers' son, they do not like to remain in the farm. They go in the city. I have seen it. The farmers' son, they do not like to take up the profession of his father. So gradually farming will be reduced, and the city residents, they are satisfied if they can eat meat. And the farmer means keeping the, raising the cattle and killing them, send to the city, and they will think that "We are eating. What is the use of going to..." But these rascals have no brain that "If there is no food grain or grass, how these cattle will be...?" Actually it is happening. They are eating swiftly. "The cattle will die. Before they die, let us kill and eat." Actually it is happening. In Italy they killed because the problem is twenty thousand cows. This is going on. They do not care that killing is sinful because they don't care for God. This is going on. And sinful, sinful, sinful, everyone will be punished. The nature's law will act. Tag wande gao(?) (Bengali) There is a Bengali proverb, tag wande gao(?), that "One man wanted to take statistics, 'How many thieves are there in this village?' So when he began to take statistics, he saw everyone is thief. Then he said that 'What is the use of making statistics? This is village of thieves, that's all.' " So it is... At the present moment this is the position. If you make a statistics who is sinful and who is not sinful, you will find all sinful. And because they are sinful, they decry the existence of God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante... Find out this, seventh... Because they are all sinful, they deny the existence of God. This is the position. Read it.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: At least let them understand the philosophy. Balavanta may see and explain the philosophy.

Jagadīśa: Balavanta knows him.

Pradyumna: Did Balavanta meet him?

Jagadīśa: I think so. Balavanta... There was one man, a black man who was running for mayor at the same time that Balavanta was, for Atlanta. And that black man dropped out of the race and supported Balavanta.

Prabhupāda: He's a black man.

Jagadīśa: Yes. Then, later on, that man he was appointed Lieutenant Governor under Carter. So Carter and this man are close, and through this man Carter knows about Balavanta and the movement.

Prabhupāda: You have written one letter?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta is very intelligent boy. He can do that. Bring that spring water, little. You can type this?

Jagadīśa: On your letterhead?

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one of the students is just about fifteen, and he's been initiated now for a year and I'd like to recommend him for second initiation. (break)

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1976, Vrndavana:

Mahākṣa: ...at Meerut by Mr. Brijmohan Gad. He has come. He's in our guesthouse now. Actually he just came here this morning. We stayed in his house. That's was also a good... That is a good town also. Altogether we made fifteen life members in about two weeks. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...bring Hindi books.

Caraṇāravindam: Yes, we need Hindi books. I met one man in Meerut, Hindi...

Prabhupāda: Our Bhagavad-gītā?

Mahākṣa: Yes. And he is the brother of, he said, I think the nephew of Kṣīrodakaśāyī dāsa Adhikārī in London. His name is Mr. K.M. Gupta. I think he has taken initiation from you.

Prabhupāda: I don't think. K.M. Gupta has given. Kṣīrodakaśāyī is my...

Mahākṣa: Kṣīrodakaśāyī dāsa Adhikārī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Caraṇāravindam: And he said that you have seen his one chapter of his translation and have approved it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Mahākṣa: No, is that not true? I asked him for a copy but he said that he only had one copy he was sending to London and one he was keeping for himself.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he is translating.

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. He is assistant.

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then assistant name also the different, these departments. One man in charge and he may have several assistants. That is different thing. (pause) Robinson could not protest any, in any of my statement. He had to admit.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. I told you he was very interested in the philosophy, asking some very good questions.

Prabhupāda: Still he's asking, "Are you saying that we were something else before this life?" I said, "Yes." (laughter) (break) ...issue will help 99% about this controversy, brainwashing.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I haven't read it completely.

Prabhupāda: And there are pictures of chanting.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's a very good..., this editorial.

Prabhupāda: This is new copy. So is it finished now? (break)

Akṣayānanda: ...ksena.(?) Practical.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Finished. So what is your charge?

Hari-śauri: Your including...

Room Conversation -- November 24, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Change is no rectification. If somebody is not working he should be trained up. Changing is another... If he is a fool, another fool will come. What will be the difficulty? You see? Change, of course, sometimes required but if you constantly change, the man is not trained up. That practice is not good. If somebody is not doing satisfactorily, then he should be trained up that "You should like this." And if you immediately change another that, that is not actually solution because all our workers, they are not accustomed to certain type of duty. They are devotee, after all. So still, we have to do something, so one man requires little training. But whatever capacity he has got, he is posted, so immediate change, that is not very good management. Let him be reformed and whatever inability he has got, he should be instructed and he should be... And this, all of a sudden change, simply go on changing, nobody... "Rolling stone never gathers moss." A "rolling stone" policy is not good. So what is the difficulty? Keep the stone in a place and it will gather moss. And if you simply roll, it will never gather moss. If the man who has committed mistake, he should be reformed. He should be instructed. Sometimes I show your cleaners by myself, "Do like this." Change them, immediate change, that is not good management, and to make him competent in that way, that is management. So this policy should be followed, not that because he has done something not correctly he should be changed immediately. That will not help. Now discuss this point.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually we can solve it ourselves. I don't know why they came to you in the first place because our whole business is to relieve you of all problems.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We should not think that if we are Indians we can have a special access to you.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And because we are trying to stop this thing in Europe and America there is agitation that "These people are propagating brainwash. How is that a man who will not eat, drink? This is brainwash." They spend ten rupees out of twenty rupees. Eh?

Vāsughoṣa: Yes, we were told like that, that they would take their twenty rupees pay and then they would go and spend ten rupees and on alcohol, drinking, toddy. (break) I was in... Last time at the festival in Māyāpur I was riding from Māyāpur to Calcutta. And so one man was saying that "Oh, fish, 80 paisa a kg. How much are potatoes?" I asked. So even their hard-earned money, so much more they spend just to eat meat, to enjoy their senses. It doesn't make sense in any way.

Prabhupāda: And that also, they cannot live on meat. They must have vegetable also. Without vegetable, simple meat-eating will not help them. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Jaya.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya

māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

Just like a man, when he is haunted by a ghost, he speaks nonsense, he does nonsense. Similarly, when one is absorbed, overwhelmed by māyā, he speaks like that, he talks like that, he acts like that. (break) ...scientists manufacture? They are very proud of becoming scientists. Such nice flower, can anyone manufacture? And still, the rascal, they say there is no God. Hm? What do you think? How do they say there is no God, these rascals? What is the reason?

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Guest: Śrīla Prabhupāda? But one man in Bangalore was talking. He was saying that everything there goes to Govinda, even the answers in the Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct). Because so many people following, they are also following.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So public opinion dictates that "This property is ours." Will he give by votes? Why he'll protest on that point?

Guest: His point is that because everyone is telling Kṛṣṇa is Supreme, therefore you are also supreme, but where is it true that Kṛṣṇa is Supreme?

Prabhupāda: So we have to meet such rascals and we have to preach. The world is full of rascals, mūḍha. What can be done? But we cannot change our preaching because the rascals are many. That is not... We cannot make that...

Guest: There is no medicine for mūḍhas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is medicine; there is beating with shoes. That is going on. Mūrkhasya laktansadhiḥ,(?) argumentum baculum. You cannot mildly speak to the animals, "My dear cow, my dear dog, please do not bark. Do not go this way." No, you require lāṭhi, stick, and they will behave. Can you stop dog's barking by simply request? But you take the stick and beat it, and he will stop. Mūrkhasya laktausadhiḥ.(?) So there is no king. There is no kṣatriya. Therefore these rascals are talking all nonsense. There is no śāsana. This is king's duty, to see that they are acting according to śāstra. But there is no such king. So everyone is acting whimsically, whatever he likes, and the so-called swamis are preaching, "No, no, whatever you like, that's all right. You can eat whatever you like. You can do whatever you like. You think yourself that you are God. That's all right." This is going on. By thinking himself that he's God, he becomes God. This is going on, so many meditations: "I am moving the sun, I am moving the Moon, I am moving... mo mo mo mo." (laughter) And rascals are following them.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Naturally. Suppose if there is some infectious disease, the doctor says, "Don't go there." And if you go there, you'll be infected. You'll suffer. How the doctor can protect you? Doctor's duty is to warn you not to go to that area, "It is now infected with smallpox." But in spite of doctor's instruction, if you go there and if you infect that disease and suffer, then it is your fault. When a man is hanged by the judgment of the court, do you think that the high-court judge is inimical to that person? He's giving judgment to other persons that "This one must make one lakh of rupees from that person." And next judgment, "This man must be hanged." Does it mean the high-court judge is partial? He's simply giving judgment on the merit of the particular case. So there is no argument that "Why God has created so many varieties?" God has not created. You have created. Man is the architect of his own fortune. Fortune and misfortune you have created. So we have to suffer or so-called enjoy. There is no enjoyment here. It is simply suffering. But because you are under māyā, you are thinking suffering as enjoying. Just like a hog is eating stool. Other man is becoming... "Very abominable!" Oh what nasty thing he is..." But he is enjoying. He is thinking, "I am enjoying the best food." I have seen in airplane. One Indian gentleman, he was eating the intestine of the hog. So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash. Now against our movement there is propaganda in USA, charging that "He has brainwashed them." (aside:) You can come here. (Hindi) "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is our position. When we speak all these things, they say it is brainwashing movement. Actually it is brainwashing movement because we are dissipating all kinds of misunderstanding, values of life. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Tamarind, so many preparations. So make like that. Why dog eating? They are not dogs. You cannot expect, because you are giving some dog eatable food, they will come. There must be one first class cook, and all our men should learn. There's no need of simply keeping unduly: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, and sleeping. We don't want such men. Make a show. And do not know anything how to preach. Useless. The householder, the women should be engaged in cooking. Their children should be gathered together. One man... I have said many times, all the children should be taken in a room by one woman, and others should be engaged in the cooking department. I have seen it. Your country, America. When they go to church, all the childrens are gathered together in a room. Is it not?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And one or two men take care. And others, they go. Similarly, children they must have, so... Not that everyone is children busy, "I cannot do." They cannot do if they are busy with children. What is the use of keeping such householders? Let them live outside, earn their money. Women business is to cleanse, to cut the vegetables, to cook, what is this? They're simply busy with the children? And they have started their mission for maintaining some children, and useless women. You should organize. Rādhikāra pakka anna vividha byañjana. All the gopīs, they are engaged for cooking for Kṛṣṇa. Mother Yaśodā will call them, "You young girls, you can cook very nicely."

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁśa: As far as our devotees' cooking, it's practically impossible. We have tried so hard. They just can't do it. Yesterday two of the boys tried to help, and the rice was not cooked because it was not done and he burned his leg. The water fell on his leg, and he couldn't handle the pots properly and he got... Now the poor boy, he is suffering. He's got a wounded leg, one of the German boys, the one with long hair. So our devotees, they are not... This boy, Bengali boy, Divid (?), he's good. He can do it but he needs at least four or five men to help.

Tejas: He was a professional cook but he's not... He can't do it himself. He needs too much...

Mahāṁśa: He needs at least four people to help. It's a big cooking, so it's also very difficult for one man to do and nobody wants to help the cooking because it's so hot, the smoke goes in the eyes and it's very troublesome. So nobody wants to help in the cooking, devotees.

Prabhupāda: Not willing. They are not willing.

Mahāṁśa: They're not willing to help in the kitchen because it is very hot, very hard, the eyes get burned, things like that. So this one Bengali boy, he's a very good cook. He can do it very nicely but he wants help. And if no one helps, then he refuses to cook. And if you press him, then he runs away. Yesterday he tried to run away four times because we were trying to press him.

Prabhupāda: No, no, cooking alone, it is not possible. So that you have to do. Find out some men. Cooperate. Otherwise how it is possible?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, therefore I'm asking you about hired people, whether hired people are good. In my experience...

Prabhupāda: So if they are, if our men not available, then you must hire, hire people. But not these carpenters or like that.

Mahāṁśa: No, we should get professional cooks who are really good, like this man who cooked today.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They'll come gradually, not immediately. Immediately, the psychology is, they have got attachment for their house. It may be worse house, but still, their attachment... That is natural. Long, long ago, when I was child practically, I went with my father in the village. So one man from the village was serving us. So my father: "This boy is nice. So why not take him to Calcutta?" So one day he was absent. It was dropping and... So I went in the interior of the village and I saw that his house was broken, there was no roof, and rain was falling and he was sitting, covering with a cloth. Then I told him that "Why not come with us in Calcutta? We shall give you nice place, nice food." So his answer was, nā bābu kanceri jabo nā (?): "Bābujī, I cannot go out of my home." That was his home. (laughter) This is my practical exp... He was sitting idly and it dropping and he could not come to serve. Still, that is his home, and he cannot leave home, that "Bābu kanceri jabo nā (?). That is psychology. It may be very worse condition; still, nobody wants to give up "home sweet home." That is natural psychology. So you have to manage. You see then why they, these Delhi passenger clerks... This morning I was telling that son was asking mother, "Who is this man?" His father, and he had never seen. "You have seen father." No, rather, he had no chance to see father because when the father comes back from the office it is night, ten o'clock or more than that. That time the son is sleeping, and again he has to go early in the morning. That time also, son is sleeping. So he did not know. So one Sunday, when he's grown up, he is asking his mother, "Who is this man?" "So this man..." Not only in India, in everywhere. I have seen in New York from the other island? What is that?

Haṁsadūta: Long Island.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tombe (M.L.A.) -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India, if the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the Supreme Leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are all of Prabhupāda's books. Eighty books.

Prabhupāda: Eighty-four books we have, I have written within ten years. And our publication house, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the first in the world for publishing religious and philosophical books. We are selling not less than six lakhs worth books daily.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, publishing division.

Mr. Tombe: I have got only a few of them now. I would like to pick up...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Here, these are... We only have sample copies in India. So I'll tell Girirāja to bring you some. These are only sample copies for Prabhupāda's display. (end)

Room Conversation -- December 28, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Woman is acting as police in England.

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles there was this one man at the temple that we suspected that he had a gun. So we called the police. It is a difficult job for police when someone has a gun. They always send the best men. So a car pulled up and a woman got out, and she crept up on the man to arrest him and the men stayed in the car.

Prabhupāda: Everything is becoming a farce. (pause) What is that?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are just some letters I'm sending with Rādhā-vallabha to Los Angeles.

Rādhā-vallabha: When we reprint the Kṛṣṇa Book trilogy this year, the hardbound, I was wondering, could we put more pictures in the second and third volumes? Not changing, but additional.

Prabhupāda: Why increase cost?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think it would be that much. The first volume has over sixty pictures and the second one only has thirty-two and the third only has twenty-four. Anyway, anything we do will increase the cost but not so significant. Few cents. We were thinking that the Kṛṣṇa Books were originally printed many many years ago and since then we have a lot of nice paintings of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes that we could put in.

Prabhupāda: If you can give without increasing price, there is no harm. Or for this cents. Let us.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That every road is there. We have no such thing. (Hindi) But he's not recognized in... Wherefrom he has got the advertisement that in America he has done tremendous work. What they have done?

Girirāja: The government may like to popularize him because he preached the cult of "work hard."

Prabhupāda: What "work hard" he has... (indistinct)

Devotee: Other day one man was telling me they bought two of your Bhāgavatams, Ramakrishna Mission. He said that one Ranganath Swami from South India, from Hyderabad was lecturing there but he was... When he was lecturing he had your Bhāgavatam, First Canto, Part One in his hand and he was speaking from there. (laughter) I said it is very good.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Give him prasāda. (Hindi)

Devotee: Many ācāryas, they imitate you. They read your books and take some of this part and what is useful for them they use on their lecture. How we should stop them? (break)

Hari-śauri: At least part of the lecture's going to be all right.

Prabhupāda: They cannot utilize my writing in their favor.

Devotee: No, some of the thing they take for their favor. They glory their own. They read your books and they glorify their own.

Prabhupāda: No that is...

Devotee: So we should stop them like that.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't stop. They cannot do it.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nearby cities we can...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that is what I'm thinking of. Near Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Away from Vṛndāvana.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Girirāja: There's that one man, he was very enthusiastic there, Mr. Bansalji.

Prabhupāda: Bansalji.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From Agra?

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Tire merchant?

Girirāja: I don't remember. But Haṁsadūta and I went way in the beginning and later on he came during the Delhi pandal. He met you and he wanted us to open a center there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Agra is a very good place. Very nice place. There are devotees. (indistinct) goes there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We can attract a lot of tourists because Agra always has a lot of tourists. I'm thinking of having a pandal there and Ludhiana.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Delhi we had one last year.