One man (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"one man" |"one man's"

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk Through the BBT Warehouse -- February 10, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They have got index book.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, they have index system.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Rāmeśvara: In this room we make repairs on electrical equipment for Golden Avatar. We have one man who joined our movement. He was in the Navy. He was a sonar technician, and he became a devotee.

Prabhupāda: Where is Kṛṣṇānanda? What is...? What is his name?

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa-kānti.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Kṛṣṇa-kānti has moved to Santa Cruz. He has a house there. Navadvīpa Prabhu is now managing Golden Avatar.

Prabhupāda: He is technical.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This is the man. His name is Robin.

Prabhupāda: He is...

Rāmeśvara: Very expert. And this is the duplicating machine. How fast can it make copies?

Robin: Three minutes.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Well, when there is question of knowledge, only you will find a few people to get the knowledge. When you put this question, "Find out some learned scholar," generally they will be very... Their number will be very little. But one thing is that if there is one man in real knowledge, he can give the..., distribute the knowledge to many. The example is just like ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ: If you get one moon at night, that is sufficient to dissipate the darkness. And there are millions of stars—it is useless. So it is necessarily not required that everyone should be in perfect knowledge. But if one man is in perfect knowledge, hundreds and thousands can hear from him and they can perfect(?). So it does not depend on the quantity; it depends on the quality.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that just like you give the example of the dictaphone, but it seems like if he just recorded the knowledge within his brain and then repeated it, that he would just be like an instrument, and he might not really be conscious of the knowledge himself. He'd just be transmitting it. It seems like... He thinks that's a defect because he's not really, he might not be conscious.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: So the driver is not in order—he may create disaster at any moment. So the insanity is not of the car, but the insanity is of the driver. So when we feel problems of the humanity, it means the insanity of the soul, not of the body. And because the driver, or the soul, is not taken care of, therefore so many problems are coming in the body. Just like, if one man takes care of hygienic principle, his bodily ailments are less, similarly, if the driver is kept in proper sanity, then there will be no accidents in the car. Another example: just like the bird in, the cage. If you take care of the cage only and do not supply any food to the bird, it will cry, "Tanh! Tanh! Tanh! Tanh!" (aside to devotee:) This gentleman comes. Give him a seat. So the problem is: if we don't take care of the driver or the bird in the cage, the human problems will not diminish, it will increase. Keeping the car in good order does not mean taking care of the driver. And if you don't take care of the driver, the disasters of the car will increase. So what is the program of taking care of the driver? Factually, they do not know what is the driver. And what to speak of taking care of it? This is the problem, real problem. Do you think it is all right or not?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying that these points are actually common to many different philosophies, and he feels there are many different ways and many different philosophies for passing our time in this temporary life.

Prabhupāda: So he is interested only on the temporary life. Never mind. There may be disaster.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imitating a barking dog.

Prabhupāda: That's it. So millions of dogs are barking, and one man has learned how to bark like dog, and people will go to see him by purchasing ticket. This is their foolishness. Suppose if you somehow or other become able to produce life from chemical, then what is your credit? It is like barking dog. Millions of dog are barking. Now you have learned how to bark like dog. So what is your credit? It may be for the rascal fools that you are scientist, but we are not so rascal.

Rūpānuga: They will clap. The fools will clap.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. "How nice barking. Oh, how he has learned to bark." Just see. We are not so fools. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍo catura: "The first-class intelligent man is he who is Kṛṣṇa conscious." Sei baḍo catura. All rascals. Kṛṣṇa said, na māṁ duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. "Oh? Also very scientist?" māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "They have no knowledge, all rascals." Kṛṣṇa says. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā, that he is not thinking, that "Suppose I can produce life by chemical combination, then what is my credit? The life is already there. It is going on very nicely." What do you think, Balavanta? If the things are going on nicely, then where is my credit? Either you say, "by chance," or "by God's arrangement," "by nature," but things are going on nicely. So it is same thing, to learn how to bark, that's all. Barking is going on, but he wants to take credit by learning how to bark. That's all.

Mādhava: They try to imitate God.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Just like if you paint a picture, rose, you are a painter, not that you know the knowledge. A painter is not a man of knowledge. Man of knowledge means he knows how things are being done. That is man of knowledge. Painter imitates some painting, that's all. He may be a good painter, but a painter is never taken as man of knowledge. I think, therefore, two departments, art and science. So this knowledge, this technical knowledge... Suppose one man has created an aeroplane. That is an art; that is not knowledge.

Rūpānuga: So if they create some synthetic, that is an art.

Prabhupāda: That is an art.

Rūpānuga: Simply copying what is there.

Prabhupāda: Just like a good cook is a good chemist. He knows how to mix up the maśālās and ghee and makes very tasteful thing. So you can call him a good cook. The chemistry is nothing but mixture of different chemicals. That's all. There is oil. There is alkaline. You mix it very proportionately, and soap comes out, very useful.

Mādhava: Prabhupāda, how can we explain to the scientists how gross matter is being produced from subtle matter and ultimately from life, from consciousness. Like if a scientist were looking at the creation occurring...

Prabhupāda: Every scientist knows that originally the sky, the sound, and from the sound, then, what is? Air? What is the process of creation from subtle to gross?

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: That is... He died with that mentality. It is there. Just like we go to sleep, but all your mental activities are reserved. In the morning again you begin.

Mādhava: Prabhupāda, you say that the living entity, he is thinking about a particular kind of body and a particular activity...

Prabhupāda: Not particular body—particular desire. And according to the desire, Kṛṣṇa is giving him facility through the material machine to give him a particular type of body. Just like one man is thinking of eating anything nonsense. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You give him this body of hog. He can eat even stool." That's all. You want to be naked, nudie? So Kṛṣṇa gives him, "So he is very much anxious to become nudie. Make him a tree. Stand up for five thousand years naked." This is going on.

Mādhava: If I desire...

Prabhupāda: Whatever you desire.

Mādhava: If I desire something to appear here now...

Prabhupāda: Yes, you will remain here as insect.

Mādhava: No, if I desire a plate of prasādam to appear here...

Prabhupāda: Then you will go to Vaikuṇṭha. (laughter)

Mādhava: How do I do it by just desiring? How is it done?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice, Purañjana. His city, his gates, various manifestation.

Devotee (4): Sometimes we are very encouraged because we find people, they come back to us. They say, "I have gotten this volume, and I'd like to have the first part" or "I'd like to have the Second Canto." I found that in the army base among the soldiers... I went to distribute at an army base with the soldiers. And one man saw me, and he came up, and he says, "Can I have the Second Canto? I liked the first one so much." It's enlivening for us.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes they come and demand.

Tripurāri: More books, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is good.

Devotee (1): Sometimes they want three or four or five at a time. (Prabhupāda chuckles) One boy... Cārudeṣṇa Prabhu and I were distributing to him. First he distributed one to him. Then I saw he was coming and I approached him again, the same, five minutes later. I said, "Didn't you get the story book, Kṛṣṇa book? You got the philosophy book, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Now take the story book, Kṛṣṇa." And he took Kṛṣṇa book, and then Cārudeṣṇa came up and distributed two more books to him.

Prabhupāda: So when they take Kṛṣṇa trilogy they take set, three?

Tripurāri: Usually one, just one.

Prabhupāda: It is closed, this? Drafty.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: No, this is called... What is the definition in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa? Avidyā-karma-samjñānyā tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate. Avidyā...

viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā proktā

kṣetrajñākhyā tathā parā

avidyā-karma-samjñānya

tṛtīya śaktir iṣyate

(CC Madhya 6.154)

The three divisions of God's energies. One energy is His spiritual energy; another energy—these living entities, they are also spiritual; another energy—material energy, where there is ignorance and work. That is material energy. In the material energy everyone is ignorant and they have to work. Karma. Karma means working. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya tṛtīya. So here you have to work. Without working, you cannot get your... The things are ready, but you will have to work. So they have increased the working capability. That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?" That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency. Everything, necessities, automatically available. That is our... Therefore as soon as one man becomes rich, he does not work. He gets his thing by working others. The tendency is there, to retire from work.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Devotee (2): Even if we present a Kṛṣṇa conscious candidate, the people will still choose a rogue to lead them, even if we present a candidate who is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Canada we have got already temples.

Brahmānanda: Candidate, someone to stand for the election.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. Unless you turn the mass of people Kṛṣṇa conscious, what you will do there? Suppose one man is elected. All demons. What he will do there? Therefore the first thing is that turn the people Kṛṣṇa conscious, and when they will vote, that is shortened (certain?) Otherwise, it is waste of time. (end)

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No.

Atreya Ṛṣi: No judgment?

Prabhupāda: The machine... Just like I push certain button, it acts in a certain way. I push another button it acts in another way. Just like computer machine. It is a very complicated machine, but it does not act automatically. One man who knows, he puts the button and it acts.

Young man: If the laws of nature are the laws of God, then how is it that sometimes they're even crueler than the actions..., they are more violent than the actions which ordinary men do, than that of a tyrant or a murderer?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Rules, God rules, are perfect, and it is being perfectly done. Sometimes we misunderstand.

Young man: Then how do we take the meaning of earthquakes and natural disasters which could destroy the lives of pure people as well as impure people?

Prabhupāda: No, every life is pure. The body is pure and impure. So anyway, after destruction, the life is not destroyed. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The destruction of body does not mean that the soul is destroyed. No. He gets another body. The body is... one body is destroyed, and he transmigrates to another body. And so far your question about the earthquake, so suppose if there is plane crash, there are many good men, bad men, so everyone is crashed. But the good man gets a good body again; the bad man gets a bad body again.

Young man: The good man gets a better body or a good body?

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually without listening, so many big, big men, they have committed mistake about Bhagavad-gītā. Even Gandhi, he says that "I do not believe that there was a person, Kṛṣṇa, ever living." Just see. What to speak of others. (Hindi) Without listening from the right source, even a personality like Gandhi will commit mistake, what to speak of others. Similarly, Dr. Rādhākrishnan has committed so many mistake. So big, big scholars, they're trying to study Bhagavad-gītā, but they cannot understand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). You first prepare yourself to surrender, praṇipāta, praṇipāta-prakṛṣṭa-rūpeṇa nipāta. Without any reservation, surrender, praṇipātena, by the surrendering process, and paripraśnena, by enquiring from the authority. Because it is not very easy to understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Out of many, many million persons one try to understand, one trying to become perfect, siddhaye. Siddhi means perfection. So yatatām api siddhānām: (BG 7.3) "Those who have attained siddhi, perfection, out of many such siddhas," kaścid māṁ vetti tattvataḥ, "maybe one man can understand Me." The first of all to become siddha. Then, after becoming siddha, one may understand Kṛṣṇa or he may not. Actually it is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa. But you can understand Kṛṣṇa if you adopt this process: praṇipātena, paripraśnena, sevayā-three things. You have to go to a person where you can surrender, not to a bogus person or one who is not competent to accept your surrender. And then you make question that "Kṛṣṇa says like this. What is the meaning of this?" Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati... (BG 7.3). And sevayā. Three things required: first of all surrender, and then question, and seva. You cannot question by challenging. You have to render service and surrender. Between the two, praṇipāta and sevayā, there is paripraśna.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That is all right. If you accept progress... Just like you are seeing the sun, I am also seeing the sun, the boy is also seeing the sun, but the understanding of the sun may be different. Everyone is seeing the sun. The objective is the same. But a child's understanding of sun and an elderly man's understanding of sun, a scientist's understanding of sun, or one man who has actually gone to the sun planet, there are different categories. Do you accept or not? The sun is there. God is accepted in every scripture. That is a fact. But in the same way, how far He is understood, that is different. That is different. The same example, that everyone is seeing sun: "Here is sun," there is no doubt. But a child's understanding of sun, his father's understanding of sun, or a scientist's understanding of sun, or a person who has gone to the sun planet, his understanding of sun is different. The objective is the same. And everyone is right. Either you understand fully sun or not, as soon as you come before the sun you get the light. The child is getting the light, the scientist is getting the light, and the ordinary person getting the light. Everyone is getting light, heat and light. But their understanding different, of degrees. (break) ...sun-god or sun, no, we don't say that.

Guest: From what you have said in the answer to this gentleman, I thought you meant, sir, when the only perfect...

Prabhupāda: No.

Guest: ...teaching about God is provided through the sun.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you are in need of manager. You are in need of manager. You cannot deny another class of men of manager, so why not make the best manager, the brāhmaṇa, who is truthful, who is equal, satya śamaḥ damaḥ, who is control of his senses, satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa, who is tolerant? These are the brahminical qualification. Satya śamaḥ damaḥ titikṣa. Who is simple, not hypocrite. Everyone is hypocrite. So why there should not be a class who is not hypocrite? All politicians saying something in the mouth and doing something else, because they are śūdra. So this is very scientific. How it not be scientific? It is spoken by God. Cātur-varnyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Required. Just like in this institution, I am guru, and if everyone becomes guru, then who will carry out the order of guru? There must be disciple also, who will carry out the order of guru. So it is not required... Just like in your body, it is not that body is made of head only, but head is required. You cannot avoid head, neither you can avoid the leg. So śūdra required, the brāhmaṇa required, the kṣatriya required, and the vaiśya required. And the society should be very nicely managed. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, cātur-varṇyaṁ. Why does He not say one varṇa, brāhmaṇa? Naturally there must be division because all men are not of the same quality. You cannot expect. So whatever quality he has got, utilize that. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. Aṇḍha-khañja-nyāya. The one man is lame, and one man is blind. So both are useless. So they combine together. The lame man was taken on the shoulder of the blind man. So the lame man has no leg, but he has got eyes. He was directing, "Go this way." So both their business was perfect. Similarly, according to the quality of the work, there must be a class of men less intelligent. They cannot independently work. They must require a master. That is śūdra. And then the vaiśya, then the kṣatriya, and the upper man is brāhmaṇa. He gives the direction to the kṣatriya. He is ruler.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: No, you... Eh?

Jayatīrtha: If there's some philosophic question and the temple president can't answer it, then the GBC...

Prabhupāda: Then GBC should be consulted. And if the GBC cannot answer, then I'll answer.

Jayatīrtha: Right. Or, if there's some quarrel—one man doesn't like another man, and the temple president can't solve it-then...

Prabhupāda: What is quarrel?

Jayatīrtha: ...the GBC man can solve it.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of quarrel. Quarrel is material.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. But it is the Age of Quarrel.

Prabhupāda: Quarrel is not good.

Jayatīrtha: The next point is to obtain reports from the temple presidents, financial reports, like this, to see that things are being looked up.

Prabhupāda: The general report should be submitted at least monthly.

Jayatīrtha: Yes. So "to obtain all reports on a timely basis..."

Prabhupāda: To the board of the GBC or to the individual, zonal GBC. Yes.

Conversation with Devotees -- March 31, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: When the Deity was given to them, they could do anything.

Acyutānanda: Yes. 'Cause his son was all hopeless that "The ācārya is dead and my father is dead." He didn't know what to do. But they have written... They have pictures. They draw pictures of Śrīnāthjī on Govardhana, and Vallabhācārya is worshiping Him, all over.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is a big... That's the reason. It's a big mistake. I had a discussion with one man. So I was stating that Mādhavendra Purī found this Deity, Gopāla, but their teaching is that Vallabhācārya found the Deity. I said, "No, Mādhavendra Purī handed the Deity over later on for worship, but it was he who found the Deity and originated the worship on Govardhana, and all the villagers..."

Prabhupāda: It has been confirmed in the court that this Deity belongs to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas. There was big case amongst themselves, and the court gave judgement that "This Deity belongs to the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava."

Acyutānanda: Oh. When was that court case?

Prabhupāda: Say, about four, five years ago. No, about ten to fifteen years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Recently.

Acyutānanda: Who represented the Gauḍīya...?

Prabhupāda: Nobody, but from the history it was found that it belonged to Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava. That... In Delhi one lawyer is there. He knows. He told me. (long pause)

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."

Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Pañcadraviḍa: So he said just to talk about the Bible as evidence is not enough. He said, "You're overlooking direct revelation," which is what we are also dealing with, that the man who lives according to the word of God, he receives the word of God directly.

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Pañcadraviḍa: Hm?

Prabhupāda: It is said there?

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Acyutānanda: Then if you can't discuss openly with people, then what's the point?

Prajāpati: The point is they have big, big buildings, big, big salaries, big, big positions...

Prabhupāda: That is... That is all right. If you want to keep one man in a very high position, you should give all comforts. That is good. Just like if you want to keep a king, he must have a palace. He must have his officers, secretaries...

Acyutānanda: So he means to say that if we present that we are better theologists, then their position will be in jeopardy.

Pañcadraviḍa: Then the question is "Then why...?" Now we are... Hypothetically, in this situation, we are approaching these theologists. Then why we are approaching if they are not open to discussion? I mean, what is the purpose in going to them?

Acyutānanda: No. Prajāpati here studied theology and brought it up to Prabhupāda.

Prajāpati: The purpose is because they are purporting to be...

Acyutānanda: Authority.

Prajāpati: ...what Śrīla Prabhupāda really is. Śrīla Prabhupāda is the real theologian, but they are using that name. And they... In that sense, they are the biggest cheaters. They're going by the name theologians, and they're not actually theologians. They're simply scholars, dry academicians.

Prabhupāda: What is that scholarship? Simply...

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Can't, can't, can't." That's it. (laughter) This is going on. The best intelligence is that "We are hearing so much about the spiritual world; there is so much happiness. Why not try one life? Like cats and dogs, I have tried so many lives. Why not sacrifice one life? Where is the loss there?" But no, they are so many, fallen, they'll not accept.

Satsvarūpa: One man wrote a book about our movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa, and he said one tragedy of this movement is that if a young boy or girl takes to this movement and later decides to try the material world again, he will have ruined his chances for a career, (laughter) and it'll be too late for him.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Trivikrama: That's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti... (BG 2.40).

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye: (BG 7.3) "Out of many millions of people, one may become interested about what is the perfection of life." They do not want. "And out of such millions of persons," yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3), "who was trying for perfection of life, out of many millions of them, one can understand Me, Kṛṣṇa." māyā is so strong. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not for ordinary person. Most fortunate, bhāgyavān jīva... Guru-kṛṣṇa kṛpaya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). All these living entities, wandering throughout the universe... Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite. If one gets the chance of guru and Kṛṣṇa, then he can understand. And if still one argues, then he's again misfortunate. Therefore Kṛṣṇa demands, "You rascal, don't argue! Surrender!" Sarva-dharmān parityaja mām... That is the way. He commands.

Devotee: Actually, you were asking if there were any examples of explosions happenning without material cause, and I was just wondering if you could explain how volcanoes explode.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: I remember the moment was very valuable. Yes.

Devotee (2): Can you tell us the story?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think I have said that.

Satsvarūpa: When you were speaking to one man...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He became very angry and chastised me.

Jagajīvana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, was this during a lecture by Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jagajīvana: Was this during a lecture?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I was not... One of my old brother, he, he wanted to speak something. So I leaned my... I immediately became... (laughter) So he chastised him more than me.

Devotee (2): When Lord Caitanya chastised someone more than Advaita Ācārya, Advaita felt that He had been neglected 'cause he had not received a greater chastisement.

Prabhupāda: He wanted to be chastised, so Caitanya fulfilled His desire. (end)

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardly, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Tad vijñāna samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmi anasūyave, yaj jñātvā na anyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate... (BG 7.2). But the Vedas do not say like that. Vedas say, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you are serious to learn about that, tad vijñāna. Tad vijñānaṁ, gurum evābhigacchet. You must go to a bona fide guru who can teach you. Nobody is serious. That is the difficulty. Everyone is thinking, "I am free," although he is pulled by the ear by nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). You have done like this, come on, here, sit down. This is going on, prakṛti. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). The rascal, befooled by his false ego, he is thinking, "I am everything. I am independent." Those who are thinking like that, they have been described in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṅkāra vimūḍhātmā. The false ego is bewildered and thinking, "What I am thinking is all right." No, you cannot think in your own way. Must think as Kṛṣṇa says, then you are right. Otherwise, you are thinking under the spell of māyā, that's all. Tribhir guṇamāyāir bhavair mohita, nā 'bhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛti sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). These things are there. Read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, follow the rules and regulations, then your life will be successful. And so long you have got, this is also right, that is also right, then you will not do the right. You will all be misled. That's all. That is not (indistinct). What Kṛṣṇa says, that is right. That should be the (indistinct). Otherwise you will be misled. So we are trying to preach this philosophy in that way. Maybe, very small number, but ekaś candras tamo hanti na cittara sahasra. If there is one moon, that is sufficient. What is the use of millions of stars twinkling. So that is our propaganda. If one man can understand what is Kṛṣṇa philosophy, then my preaching is successful, that's all. We don't want many millions of stars with no light.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that cannot be.

Governor: You want completely a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then there will be ideal character. That is going on. One man is claiming as brāhmaṇa, but he is doing the work of electrician. That is already going on.

Governor: No, but while doing his profession, if he has good influence of the varṇāśrama-dharma, of the brāhmaṇa, and then he will do the work with the dedication to God and to the society.

Prabhupāda: No. Why you are suggesting that although he is a brāhmaṇa, he become a electrician. Why?

Governor: I will put it this way. He is an engineer, but I would also...

Prabhupāda: Engineer?

Governor: A mechanical engineer.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Governor: And he also be influenced by the good points of varṇāśrama-dharma.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is going on in London, in all civilized countries, advanced civilization.

Guest: And they say that there was report in Bombay also.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Guest: One restaurant near Metro was serving that type. And one man suffering from leprosy was given only about one month to live, and "If you want to enjoy, you enjoy. But if you want to get cured, you have to eat human flesh." "I don't eat human flesh." So he started eating anywhere. And he liked one place very much, and he started eating for one month at that particular place. And eventually he was cured. Then a police report was found out that they were serving human flesh by inviting very poor people from the South India for washing the dishes at night, giving five rupees. When they come, they kill him and serve in the morning.

Prabhupāda: That was being done long, long ago in a Chinese house in Calcutta. They'd call hawker.

Guest: Hawker. And kill him up.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest: It is a very confidential report. The government will not publish it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Supply large quantity of milk? No.

Guest: No, that milk is medicinally used for whooping cough. Anybody suffering from whooping cough, they have to take this camel's milk. And any children who do not increase their height, they are given this milk in winter. So height is automatically increased. They become like camel eventually. (laughter) Tall, I mean. I don't mean the..., in Western way. According to Āyurvedic principle, every animal have got a particular method of curing particular disease.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Spiritual realization means knowledge. Not to become intoxicated. The spiritual... Just like this is spiritual knowledge. So what the intoxicated person will understand? Even a sane man cannot understand. Then how he will understand in intoxication? It is foolishness. They are suffering material pangs. By taking drugs the suffering is forgotten, and he is thinking that is the solution. Spiritual means negation of material distress. So he is always suffering from material distress. By taking drug, temporarily he forgets it. Therefore he misunderstands "This is spiritual." That's not spiritual. Then committing suicide is also spiritual? One man is suffering, and the suffering is so great he cannot tolerate, therefore he sometimes commits suicide. Is that committing suicide spiritual? Spiritual means negation of material distresses, that's a fact. But that is a different thing. When you come to the spiritual platform, not by artificially forgetting your material suffering. That is not spiritual.

Kim: Another question. I asked earlier about the nature of ātman, now the nature of Brahman?

Prabhupāda: Brahman means the greatest, so as the sky, to our experience the sky is greater. What is the sky? The sky is a combination of small atoms. Do you know that? So if the sky is Brahman, then it is a combination of small atoms, then the small atoms are also Brahman? Just like a huge stack of rice, they are called rice, and a small grain of rice, that is also rice. So therefore there are two kinds of Brahman—the component parts of the Brahman they are also Brahman, and whole Brahman is also Brahman. Do you follow?

Kim: I hear the words.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you understand?

Kim: I follow the analogy of the rice.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Yes. Here they do. I answer many of the letters when they come. Last week, just before we came over to Perth, one boy wrote a letter, he said, "I cannot come to your temple, but I am a student in Geelong"—that's one city near Melbourne—"And when I come to Melbourne I always get your Back to Godhead magazine." So he said, "How can I become a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" So I wrote him a letter telling him about getting more books and chanting. And one man wrote us a letter from New Zealand. He said, "I have Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam parts one, two and three. Can you please tell me how many other parts I can get, because I want to have them all."

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Amogha: And in the schools they have comparative religion courses, and they usually write us a letter saying, "Can you please tell us, for our comparative religions class, what you believe and what is behind your movement?" And things like this. And if they are close enough we usually go there, or if not we write them and send them some literature. Everyone in the classes I find in the schools, everyone is bored with the ideas they are teaching. Everyone has heard it all, and they are bored. But when we come, they become very interested. Just like at one school. We had one hour. We showed the film, then we talked and answered questions for one hour, and then the bell rang. It was time for their next class. So the teacher said, "Students, shall we go to the next class or stay here?" And they said, "Oh, let's stay here. This is much better." So they stayed for one more hour. Their teaching is so dry, but we handed out mahā-prasādam, and it was very interesting. Usually in each class there are three or four students who are especially pious, and they come, they stay afterwards and ask many questions. We can also see that they are more affected by the understanding than the other students.

Prabhupāda: This road is good. There is no traffic.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Anything they say nice, that means it is guaranteed, next life. Or even in this life it will definitely help. As soon as he reads some pages, then it is guaranteed. Those who are enquiring, that means they are liking. Their life is guaranteed.

Amogha: One man who joined us about Rathayātrā time last year was a solicitor. He used to buy our books but he never read them. But he would keep them on his bookshelf. And he used to always think, "Those are such beautiful books." He used to think like that.

Prabhupāda: This is appreciation.

Amogha: He never got time to read it.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If he keeps the books with appreciation, that makes his life sure, insured. He immediately becomes in touch with God. Who keeps the book with reverence and love, immediately he becomes in touch with God. Because these books are representative of God.

Amogha: When we go to a school, I first ask, "How many students have seen us chanting in the steets?" Immediately they all raise their hands.

Prabhupāda: It is a very nice service you are doing. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied, hari-toṣaṇa. As soon as Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, your preaching is perfect. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, the dogs also dance and enjoy. The monkeys also dance and enjoy.

Paramahaṁsa: But these animals, they're not intelligent enough to enjoy the higher...

Prabhupāda: They are intelligent. Otherwise when the dog jumps here, and goes to one man and come here-he's enjoying. It is enjoyment. So you are doing like that.

Amogha: But we cook very nice food to eat.

Prabhupāda: They also eat, according to their taste. The hogs, they eat stool and they enjoy it. So, according to our calculation you are eating stool—the meat. And you are thinking you are enjoying, as the hog's thinking, that's all. It is a question of standard of enjoyment. Otherwise, enjoyment is there in every living sphere. (In car)

Amogha: It sounds very nice. If we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa we can feel unlimited pleasure.

Paramahaṁsa: It sounds too simple to be true.

Amogha: But maybe we can in addition to this unlimited pleasure, just to make sure we don't lose out on anything, maybe we can also enjoy all these other pleasures.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you (indistinct) motorcar and chant. You are working hard like an ass to get these motorcars. You'll get these by chanting.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. (break) "No, no, Jesus Christ is son of God. He was... (break) If you don't worship him, you will go to hell." So they enquired, "What is that hell?" He began to... "It is very dark and moist and so on, so on..." They did not reply because they are working in the mine. So this is the position. This is the position. People are kept in so much darkness, they do not know what is hell, what is heaven, what is God, what is misery. They do not mind. They are accustomed to all these things. There is another story like that, a Bengali story. One man said, "Oh, you are drinking, you will go to hell." So he explained what is hell: "It is a miserable life." "My father also drinks." "Oh, he will also go to hell." "And my mother also drinks." "Oh, she will also go." In this way whole, the family. "Then where it is hell? It is heaven. Because the father is there, mother is there, brother is there. Everyone, we are going... So where is hell?" This is the... "Even in hell, if we are all there, then where it is hell? It is heaven."

Paramahaṁsa: People don't mind so much suffering if they can suffer with their friends.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are suffering. They are accustomed to so many sufferings. They say they do not mind what is suffering.

Paramahaṁsa: Especially if they can bring their friends along. Then they're very happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is heaven. Although there is suffering, it is heaven.

Paramahaṁsa: They think that suffering together with your friends is enjoying.

Room Conversation with Justin Murphy (Geographer) -- May 14, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, it is not the same body. Just like in your childhood, when you were a boy, you had no sex impulse. Now you have got sex impulse. The body of a child, the body of a boy, they cannot understand sex life because the body is different. And now, because you have got different body, you can feel what is sex life. So it is imperceptibly changing. Therefore we think that it is growing. But it is changing. It is changing swiftly. Just like in the cinema spool. The picture is changing, but because it is changing so swiftly, you are seeing that one man is moving. That is the fact. There are hundreds and thousands of pictures passed on. When you see that "This man is taking the stick and bringing this way," this means there are many pictures. So similarly, it is like a spool. Your body is changing every moment. That is medical science.

Justin Murphy: Absolutely. Yes. At every moment.

Prabhupāda: So changing. So you are changing your body. That's a fact. But because you are seeing all in one spool, you are thinking, "It is growing; it is moving." That's all. But it is changing. This is the science. So body is changing. And you remember that you had such-and-such body. Therefore you are different from the body. This is the science. So unless we understand that "I am not this body. I am different from the body. I am changing bodies. Therefore I will have to change this body and accept another body..." This is the science, beginning of scientific knowledge. Without understanding this fact his advancement of knowledge is simply for eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. There is no advancement. According to Vedic literature, he remains animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).

Discussion -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is independent. And still, everyone is thinking independent, "I can do anything I like." Yesterday morning we were talking. You are independent. That is, means, misuse of independence. Just like in a state every citizen is independent but dependent on the state laws. If he forgets that, that "I am not dependent on the state laws," then he is foolish. Similarly, if one does not know that "The nature's law is the God's law, state laws; I cannot violate it," (sic:) then he is sober. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One man is dying. A dhīra knows that he is changing his body; he is not dying. He will get another body. Dhīra, sober. And one who is not sober, he says, "No, life is finished." Or he can imagine he is going to heaven or hell. But a dhīra knows what is going to happen to him. If he was in the material modes of nature, goodness, then he is going to higher planetary system. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti. From śāstra we can understand. If he is in passion, then he will stay in this material world.

And if he is in ignorance, then he is going to be animal. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. He knows. So he understood what is meant by first-class men?

Amogha: He seemed to understand a lot. I don't know if he could understand completely, but...

Prabhupāda: No...

Paramahaṁsa: As he walked out the door he said, "Now I have to go back and lead my fourth-class life." (laughter)

Amogha: Yes, he said that.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then you suffer.

Śrutakīrti: That would mean they had to leave the city. They don't want to leave the city.

Prabhupāda: Then go to hell.

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, we received news yesterday that one man in northern New South Wales is willing to sell us a farm, a great big farm out there in the southern tropics. Would this be a good place for engaging boys like the Indian, the Indian boy that came yesterday?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our next program is to organize farming. Let anyone come. We shall give him free food and employment: "Come on." Not that "I want to work as a clerk in the city." You produce your own food. I give you ingredients. I give you land. And work for five, six hours, and take your food and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): Anybody who comes to the farm has to agree to follow the four regulative principles? These people?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise you are not coming. Our main business is to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious. Where you have left my that overcoat?

Śrutakīrti: That is in London. (pause)

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So it is then relative. When you...

Śrutakīrti: Yes. According to the person's desire.

Paramahaṁsa: We just want to see that everyone is happy, and that way we will know that we are pleasing God.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is happy. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it says, śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Now, something is happiness; the same something is distress. So what is the standard of happiness? The same something is distress for another. One man's food, another man's poison. So where is the standard of happiness? What you are thinking, "This is happiness," others are thinking, "This is distress."

Amogha: That's why we have this modern philosophy that whatever makes you feel good you should do.

Prabhupāda: No, then everyone will think they don't require philosophy.

Śrutakīrti: In this world everything is relative, so it's not expected that the same things will please everyone.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you put something as happiness standard or distress standard? So everything is everything, that's all. (laughs) Why do you try to put a standard?

Paramahaṁsa: We try to simply make the facility if a person wants to change his position.

Prabhupāda: So why you are so much busy in trying like that? Why you are waste your time? You make your own...

Śrutakīrti: But that is his happiness. Giving facility to others is what makes me happy.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: You cannot give happiness to everyone according to standard. Then unhappiness will continue, so what is the use of your wasting time? Because you cannot give happiness to everyone, what you think, "It is happiness," others will not accept it. Then where is the happiness?

Paramahaṁsa: We can give them what they want, and that will make them happy.

Prabhupāda: It is contradictory. One mans want poison; you give him poison. One man wants food, you give him food. Then what is the standard of your food or poison? Then everything is required. Why do you bother?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, we have to draw the line somewhere.

Prabhupāda: You can do it foolishly. That is another thing. But everything is all right. Poison is all right, and food is all right.

Śrutakīrti: The standard is the person's happiness.

Amogha: Just like now we have come to the point where the different doctors are thinking very seriously of having this mercy killing passed in the courts. When a person becomes too much diseased, actually he would be happier if he was dead, so why not kill him?

Prabhupāda: That is contradictory. He will kill somebody, and he will give life somebody. That is... There is no standard. Everything is all right. Then why do you bother that "This is good"? The same "good" is bad for others.

Paramahaṁsa: That's why we have psychiatrists, to decide... They analyze the person very carefully and see what is good for him. And completely on a relative basis they give a prescription.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: We preach that way so that other people will be happy knowing everything is all right. Now they're thinking everything is not all right, so they're in anxiety.

Prabhupāda: There is a story. One man has written book how to tend cows. "Cows tending, cows tending, cows tending." So one old man calling, "What book you are selling?" "How to tend the cows." "So you better take this book to your mother. She will learn how to tend you." Cows tending everyone knows, and he has written a book. "So better... You are a rascal cow. Give it to your mother, and she will tend you, learn." It is like that. If everything is all right, somebody is taking, "This is pleasure," somebody..., then what is the use of writing book? Everything is all right. They may select whatever they like. Oh, why you are becoming a big preacher? Let them accept whatever they like.

Amogha: But some people have a hard time getting what they like. Therefore we like to help them. We feel that it's our duty as human beings to help them.

Prabhupāda: So this duty is that you better go to your mother. All nonsense theory. It has no meaning.

Śrutakīrti: If everything is all right, then my preaching that is also all right.

Prabhupāda: Your preaching is all right, so, provided you preach something good. But when everything is good, then where is the, your preaching required? You preach something. Just like we are preaching. We are preaching. This is actually good for, that he must know what he is and what is the ultimate goal of life. This is required. Material preaching has no value. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Ei bhāla ei manda, saba manodharma: " 'This is good; this is bad,' this is all mental concoction." Actually. But real good is: "He has forgotten God. Revive his consciousness." That is real good. Then he'll saved from the so-called good and bad and everything. That is wanted. Materially, everything is one man's food, another man's poison. Therefore there is no distinction—"This is good; this is bad." The stool is very bad, bad smell for you, but it is food for the pig. This is proof—"One man's food, another's poison." So this is only mental concoction, "This is good; this is bad."

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.

Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.

Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...

Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes...

Prabhupāda: Not everything is good. The pigs considers stool is very good, nice food.

Jesuit: Every man is made with sex appetites. Every man is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. This is natural inclination, but if you can stop it, that is victory.

Jesuit: No, I can't accept that.

Prabhupāda: Now why you do not accept? In the Christian religion there is unmarried life.

Jesuit: Married life is a good life. The use of sex is good.

Prabhupāda: Good?

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good. They are not understanding; still, you have to go. Then Kṛṣṇa will take that "He is laboring so hard for My sake." Never mind he is successful. It doesn't matter. But you are working hard for Kṛṣṇa. That is noted down. So our business is to be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Whether one man is converted or not converted, that is not our business. We shall try our best. But Kṛṣṇa must see that I am giving service to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is wanted. Not that you have to judge that you have approached so many men; nobody became Kṛṣṇa conscious.

That doesn't matter. But you have gone there. You have endeavored your sincere effort. That is recognized by Kṛṣṇa. That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Whomever you meet, you give him, you inform him the instruction of Kṛṣṇa." Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said that "You see that he has actually become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Never says. You simply say and go and say. That is your business. It is not that you have to see that he has become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is not so easy to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. It is not so easy. It will take, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), after many, many births. But you have to do your duty. Go and preach. Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Your duty is finished. Of course, you will try to convert him. If he is not converted, that is not deviation of your duty. You have to simply go and speak. Just like when I came to your country, I never expected any success because I knew, "As soon as I will say, 'No illicit sex, no meat-eating,' they will reject me immediately."

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, we don't take that, by number of people. We take how many people are taking actually. But neither... Ekaś candras tamo hanti: "If one man accepts, then he can become the bright moon." Na ca tārāḥ sahasraśaḥ: "The so-called stars has no value." One moon is sufficient. So our preaching is: Let one man understand Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We don't want disciples. I never collected disciples. I never compromised that "You can do whatever you like, and you become my disciple. "No. You have to follow this. Now also, this morning, I accepted so many... "First promise whether you are going to do this. Then I initiate." This is my policy. If I would have said, "No, you can do whatever you like, and give me some money. I shall give you mantra," then you would have seen millions. But I accept very selected disciple, not that anyone, everyone comes, and I accept disciple. No. He is first of all trained up six months. Then, when he is able to promise to follow the regulative..., then I accept. This is stricture. It is not that everyone comes, "Give me thirty-five dollars. I give you mantra, and within six months you become God." I do not do that.

Dr. Copeland: You should add humor to honesty.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Amogha: He said as one of the qualifications, we should add good humor, to honesty. He says you have good humor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. One who has got knowledge, he is humorous also.

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: You, why do you believe on your seeing? That is the defect. That is the defect of the Westerners. They are very deficient; still they say, "I cannot see." What is your seeing power? Suppose if Nārada comes, some demigods come, but you cannot see. Just like when Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva appeared, Prahlāda was seeing. "Is your God here?" "Yes." And he could not see. So why do you believe so much on your seeing? You have to attain seeing power. That is very good example, Prahlāda... Hiraṇyakaśipu asking Prahlāda, "Where is your God?" "My God is everywhere." "He is on the pillar?" "Yes." So he was seeing, but he was not seeing. He became angry and broke the pillar. "Let me see, where is your God." This is the position. So one has to create the eyes to see things. Not that whatever eyes you have got you can see everything. No. Just like motorcar is being driven, a child is seeing that the car is running automatically. And the father is seeing, "No, there is driver."

So the seeing of the child and seeing of the father is different. In our childhood we were thinking that in the gramophone box there is a man. And the fan there is a ghost. (laughter) I remember quite. "How these records are being played? There must be one man. He is singing." And the electric fan was running, I was thinking there is some ghost. This is the way.

Madhudviṣa: The demons are trying to go to the heavenly planets by building their skyscrapers higher and higher.

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?

Devotee: To the moon expedition?

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not ideal and neither it is possible. Not that everyone is going to be lawyer. Even though everyone has got the ambition to become a first-class lawyer and earn like anything, but that is not possible. So therefore it requires selection, who will become a lawyer, who will become a scientist, who will become a medical man...

Guest 2: In our society you are taught in school that if you try hard enough, you can become prime minister.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no harm. You become prime minister. But I say that not everyone is capable to become prime minister. That has to be. If one man is not capable and if he takes education to become, he will waste his time.

Guest 2: But once you have the idea in your head that you can be prime minister, you don't want to be a laborer.

Prabhupāda: Then you become. But if he is a loafer and he wants to become prime minister, then it will create havoc. Just like in America. He was not fit for the president's post. Nixon was elected. Then again he has to be dragged down. We say the fit man should go to become a particular...

Guest 2: Our system, I think is not very good. But everyone is taught this way in our system.

Prabhupāda: No, there must be... Just like first-class men. They should judge for which purpose this man is. Practical psychology there is. I think. They can decide like that. Anyway, the society must have all divisions of men, and then the society is perfect. We have already many divisions, but we are lacking one division, that, the first-class men, first-class ideal men. That is lacking.

Guest 1: I think everybody acknowledges that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that first-class man is stated here. Read that.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is happening, tit for tat.

Guest 1: Was that generosity, or...? Where was the generosity?

Prabhupāda: No. That is war tactics. That is war tactics. Sometimes we have to use war tactics because we have to own victory. But they were generous because in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra they would fight like anything, like enemies, but at night they were friends. The one man is going. Just like sportsman. They fight during the play, but after that, they are friends, talking together, drinking together, like that.

Guest 2: Like barristers and prosecutors.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They are paid for fighting. (laughter) But when the fighting is over, they are friends.

Guest 1: Sometimes.

Madhudviṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Raymond did not realize that you were going to be so merciful to grant so much time and he thought that you were only going to give about ten minutes, so he left about twenty people back at his house at one party. So he's feeling that he must return.

Raymond: It's my father-in-law's birthday.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Raymond: And it's my son's ninth birthday.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this place is for unhappiness. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find this place, the material world, has been described as duḥkhālayam. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. So how you... If the place is made for miseries, how you can make this place as full of pleasure, if God made like that? Just like if you are put into the prison house and if you want to live very comfortably, is it possible? Prison house is meant for giving you trouble so that you may be rectified, no more stealing, not to become criminal. It is meant for punishment. Similarly, this whole material world is meant for punishing these criminals who wanted to enjoy independently God's property. They are all criminals. We are worshiping the best nationalist, who is thinking in terms that "This place is mine," philanthropist or political leader. But actually, he is a thief because he is claiming God's property as his own. He is a criminal. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the universes." Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the friend of all living entities." But these people, they are claiming that... The leader is claiming, "I am the friend," and he is claiming, "I am the proprietor." They are, therefore, criminal. He is not friend. Just like your president. He is not friend of the countrymen. So this is the position of the most exalted man, and what to speak of the ordinary man? Nobody is friend. All enemies. Therefore I am envious of you, you are envious of me. There is no question of becoming friend because everyone is selfish. He wants his personal benefit, so how he can become other's friend? This is false. By false pretension, he is occupying big, big post and taking money for his sense gratification. That's all. This is material world. And to keep up his position he is proclaiming, that "I am your friend." Just like when Nixon was being elected: "America needs Nixon now." (laughter) I have seen that signboard. And then again it became, "America needs to kick out." (laughter) This is going on. This is cheating. Both of them are cheater. Those who elected him, he is also cheater, and who became elected, he is also cheater. So this is the society of cheaters and cheated. The so-called human society means the society of the cheaters and cheated. One man is cheated, another man is cheater, and alternately he is also cheated and others are cheated. This is going on.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Vegetable has also life but we are not killing. When you pluck out the flower, the tree is not killed. When you take a fruit, the tree is not killed. When you take grains, automatically they die. Then you take the grains. There is no question of killing. But even it is killing, it is not as murderous as killing a cow. Why the state hangs a man when he kills a man? The man can plead that "So many animals are being killed every day. If I kill one man, what is the wrong there?" The punishment is that "You have killed one important animal." Therefore the Bhaga..., kṛṣi-go-rakṣya, that cow should be protected because it is a very, very, important animal. It does not say, "Other animal." Or does not say, "All animals." He said, "Cows," because important. It's supplying you milk, so important food. She is your mother and you are killing mother? Is that your civilization? Killing mother? "Mother is old, and mother is no more supplying milk. Kill." Is there any such sanction? Rather, old mother is given more protection. And what is this civilization, killing the mother? In the morning we require milk immediately, and the mother cow is supplying. And when she cannot supply, kill her. What is this philosophy?

Bahulāśva: I was lecturing in the University of Marin in San Francisco. So I was explaining that, and one man said, "This is just your sentiment. You just have some sentiment." So I asked him if he had a dog. And he said, "Yes." So I said that "When your dog becomes old, will you kill it?" So he said, "No, why shall I kill it. It's a good dog." So...

Prabhupāda: Dog is good; cow is bad. Dog is creating always nasty things, and cow is so pure, even the stool is pure, and she has to be killed.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...one man?

Devotee (1): They only take one master usually.

Brahmānanda: It's a German dog.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Don't care for other?

Devotee (1): No. They train them that way.

Brahmānanda: What are those, deer?

Satsvarūpa: This is a zoo.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Those are elk. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...your American Congress Library they placed a standing order, eighteen books, whatever I published each book. So I have tried so many, what is called, GBC. They are not very expert to organize in India. So if you think you can do it... Now we have got sufficient place in Bombay. So if you take charge of this distribution of books not only in India but neighboring countries just like Hong Kong, Singapore, if you think you can do that, that will be nice. You have got experience, how to distribute books. So you think over. Now we have got very nice place in Bombay. We have got place for at least fifty men very comfortably. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: See? Just see the foolish people. They are working so hard for nothing. Everything will be finished after this death, and he will become a cat and dog or a tree. You see? (break) ...sometimes advocate the materialists.

Kuruśreṣṭha: Sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, even we explain that, and they can seem to understand; still they won't do anything about it.

Prabhupāda: So you have to constantly poke them. These rascals. Just like one man is sleeping. You have to call him constantly, "Mr. Such, Mr. Such, wake up, rascal. You are sleeping. Why?" This is our business.

uttiṣṭhata jagrata prāpya varan nibodhata

That is sung by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura,

kota nidrā jāo māyā-pīśācira kole

"How long you will sleep? You have got this opportunity, human form of life. Now get up."

jīv jāgo, jīv jāgo, gauracānda bole

This is our mantra: "You rascal, get up. Take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and solve all your problems."

Satsvarūpa: Some people say that if we want to do this, it's all right, but we shouldn't insist and go and preach to them. Everyone has his own way.

Prabhupāda: Because you are human being, you rascal, you animal, you are sleeping, we are just trying to awaken you. Because you are human being. Suppose a boy, a child, is going this side. We are human being. We shall say, "No, no, you go right"? Shall you say that? We shall try to save, "Oh, what you are doing?" That is our business. That is every human being's business, to do good to others. That is human life. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Janma sārthaka kori kara para upakāra. That is human life.

Morning Walk -- July 1, 1975, Denver:

Brahmānanda: One friend of the temple, one man, he has purchased it at a very high price, and he has lent it for your stay. These glasses are bulletproof. (break) This is a Lincoln Continental, Ford company.

Prabhupāda: Why he stopped? (break) ...without car? (Brahmānanda laughs) (break) ...Nixon's home.

Brahmānanda: He has in Florida, Key Biscayne. He had two homes, one in Florida, one in California. But now he's staying in Florida. Recently he went to New York and testified before a committee. It's the first time that he has spoken publicly since his...

Prabhupāda: What is that committee?

Brahmānanda: They were investigating the Watergate.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, he had to present himself.

Brahmānanda: Yes. It's the first time any ex-chief executive has ever testified.

Prabhupāda: So he is not out of danger.

Brahmānanda: Well, they're still investigating the whole thing.

Morning Walk -- July 3, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Unless they say, how they will adjust so much money spent? What account they will give? They must bluff, "Yes, it is successful." I saw in the Allahabad high-court. One man was condemned to death. I told you?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So one barrister, Mr. Allston, he was pacifying, "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released. Don't worry." (laughter) I heard it. I was passing, and Mr. Allston was advising his client. He was morose. "Don't worry, I shall appeal and get you released." (break) ...condemned person was a medical man, and he killed his servant in the surgical room because the servant was implicated with his wife. This is the story. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...English?

Prabhupāda: No, no, Indian.

Brahmānanda: And the man was also Indian?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: But the barrister, he was English.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Go to the beach now. (break) Sweet water?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No.

Bhavānanda: This is fresh water. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Angeles, I have seen while going to the beach, one man has made a boat of concrete cement. Did you see? Nobody marked?

Viṣṇujana: In California there are such boats, concrete boats.

Prabhupāda: They are used?

Viṣṇujana: Oh yes. They are used for taking cargo up and down the coast. They don't travel in the ocean, but they travel on the coast. They used them during the Second World War all over the United States.

Prabhupāda: Such boat does not drown?

Viṣṇujana: They keep it up by huge air tanks. By holding so much air they keep the cement up. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ficial means. Otherwise it will drown.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sink, yeah. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...officially closed. (break) ...water increases? I don't think. It does not.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Satsvarūpa: One temple, St. Louis temple, has come to this festival, and they brought with them their installed Deities which are Gaura-Nitāi. I wasn't sure that was right of them to do that. And They're now on the altar of the Chicago temple, but the Deities are not in the St. Louis temple. Gaura...

Prabhupāda: That is closed?

Satsvarūpa: They left one man there. Better to keep the temple open with the Deities there or can the...?

Prabhupāda: No, no. When there is Deity, it must be taken care of.

Satsvarūpa: They should not be transported to another temple?

Prabhupāda: No, no harm.

Satsvarūpa: May the temple be only one man left?

Prabhupāda: Why, if there is no Deity, what is the use of keeping one man? (break) ...is meant for Deity, not for man. (break)

Viṣṇujana: ...Dāmodara here for the festival. Is it all right for Them to go on Lord Jagannātha's altar while He is gone?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Viṣṇujana: Is it all right to put the Deities on the altar in the temple, on Lord Jagannātha's altar while He's gone?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...private houses or...?

Bhavānanda: Some of them are university and some are private. (break)

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: Would you like to ask some questions or have him explain?

Lt. Mozee: Well, no, I understand the spiritual leader had some ideas on how to prevent crime, how to do these things. I might inquire after he gives his ideas. I understand you read the...

Prabhupāda: It is not idea, it is fact that one man is very pious and one man is very vicious. What is the difference? The difference is: one is dirty in his heart and one is pure in his heart. So if you keep people dirty, then there will be crimes. This is the sign that the general people, they are dirty. So you have to purify the dirty things, diseased condition. Then things will be all right. So our simplest process is to assemble in congregation and chant the holy name of God. Then dirty things will go away. So if you want to stop crime, then you have to arrange for mass saṅkīrtana. That is our movement. Gather people as large as can be possible and congregationally chant the holy name of God. Then it will be all right.

Lt. Mozee: Do you have any feeling about the crime here in the United States as opposed to the crime in your own land?

Prabhupāda: Crime, what is your definition of crime?

Lt. Mozee: Any infraction against one person by another person. Any trampling on the rights of one person by another person can be a crime or should be a crime.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: If he simply understands that Lord Śiva is a Vaiṣṇava and if he worships Lord Śiva, then he will get the benefit.

Brahmānanda: I was just thinking that in Hyderabad you also spoke something very unpopular when you were discussing about the worship of Lord Śiva and Lord Kṛṣṇa. And you used the example of the milk and the curd.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: And one man in the audience, he asked you, "Who is the milk and who is the curd?" And you said that "Kṛṣṇa is the milk, and Śiva is the curd." And he did not like that.

Prabhupāda: There is milk and the curd. So one must become milk, one must become curd. So if Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, then He must be the milk. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1).

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ

sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ

anādir ādir govindaḥ

sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam

(Bs. 5.1)

So He is the cause of all causes. So if milk is the cause of curd, then Kṛṣṇa is the milk. Come on. (some children enter room) Cause of all causes. Come forward. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, that is infection. If you are weak, you are infected. That is the science. One who is not weak, he does not become infected. Just like in your country there are so many liquor shop, but you are not interested. So it is like that.

Dharmādhyakṣa: We have a little strength through your divine grace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many slaughterhouses, but we are not infected. So it is the strength that saves one man from infection. (break) ...learned scholars, they are astonished that I have hypnotized. Otherwise how it is possible? What that Judah's, "charis"...?

Brahmānanda: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic.

Bahulāśva: They say that we're becoming brainwashed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Why you cannot do? It is brainwash, yes, all dirty things you are...

Bahulāśva: Are being cleansed.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Brainwashed and also heartwashed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ceto-darpaṇa-mār... That is our process, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the mirror of heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). This is our process, cleansing. Tato rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobhādayas (SB 1.2.19). (break)

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: As far as possible don't use machine. Let people be engaged.

Satsvarūpa: Animals?

Prabhupāda: Animal. Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Not gas-driven engine.

Prabhupāda: Let people be engaged. Machine means one man or two man working... That will mean unemployment. Machine means unemployment. The principle should be that everyone is employed. Either brāhmaṇa, either kṣatriya, either vaiśya or śūdra. Nobody should become idle and gossiping, and sleeping, then utilize... This should be principle. Everyone should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then life is successful. And self-sufficient. If we have got spoiling living program, these are necessities. Growing, cultivating, producing, there will be not possibility of, and we don't want more than the necessity. If by God's grace we get more then you can make sale, we are not going to work for selling purpose. Then money will be there. How to get money, how to get money? And as soon as you get money, more than necessity, then sense gratification, then this, that, this, that, then you become implicated. Ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta... ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). As soon as you become implicated with material want, gṛha, kṣetra, vittair, ato gṛha kṣetra sutāpta, children, wife, friendship, then the false ego, "I am this body and this is my property," will increase. For that is material world. People do not know the end of life, or the aim of life. They are misguided, hence the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to give them an ideal way of life. So this is very nice place. We have got small lakes also. Natural we have?

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.

Satsvarūpa: Everything we do, we don't hide it. We show the world what we're doing. I don't see how we could hide that one man had many different wives.

Prabhupāda: If you don't call wife, you can have. The law allows you to keep boyfriend, girlfriend. Then the... Instead of calling "husband," call "friend." That's all. But, er, it is risky and the man must be responsible to keep... To keep more than one wife by trained-up man is not disallowed.

Brahmānanda : But I think they thought that he could get it legally established, at least in the state of California.

Prabhupāda: Well then go and marry there. If the state of California allows that, then they all can go to California.

Nityānanda: The general public objects to that... It's very...

Morning Walk -- August 24, 1975, Delhi:

Brahmānanda: So they could speculate about the stars and planets. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...all the British names out and replaced them with Italian and Indian and other names.

Tejas: Many Muslim names they have replaced also. Because they are supposed to be historical. (break)

Prabhupāda: This is the road. This is the bus. (break)

Tejas: Many of the members are reading the books now, Śrīla Prabhupāda. One man, he is coming tonight. He has read your Bhagavad-gītā six times now. He is very enthusiastic. Now he is thinking that he has wasted his whole life. That's the way he talks.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes to that conclusion, then he becomes perfect.

Tejas: He told me, "I have read so many Bhagavad-gītās previously, but never was the commentation clear. I could not understand the meaning."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They simply jugglery of words.

Tejas: All impersonal.

Bhāgavata: There was one man in Calcutta. You stayed in his house just before you left for America, and later he became a sannyāsī. He sings bhajans. He became a sannyāsī later. He knew you very well. You had written him a letter, and he just recently became a patron, and he is reading your books now also. I have forgotten his name, but he knew you very, very well. He used to sing bhajans. (break)

Morning Walk -- September 9, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Do you know this? (break) ...go somewhere, better go, at least four men; and when you read some knowledge, at least two men; but when you eat, one man. Don't bring four men and two men. Then he will be hungry; you will be hungry. (laughter) So for advancement of knowledge, two men at least required, discussion—not that I am reading and sleeping also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Just before coming here we were in Laguṇa Beach, and Guru-kṛpa Mahārāja, Yaśodānandana Mahārāja, Paramahaṁsa Mahārāja, Viṣṇujana Mahārāja and myself, we got your new books, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So we were reading constantly from early in the morning. We found it was very enlivening, the fact that we were reading amongst a number of devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is called iṣṭagoṣṭhī, or discussion. Discussion does not take place alone. There must be at least two.

Indian man (1): Dvabhyanaṁ pathanaṁ pathī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvabhyaṁ patanam. (Hindi) ...instruction... (Hindi) Either you speak in Bengali or in Sanskrit. (break) Then that is an asset. One day they will come to help us. It is called ajñāta-sukṛtī, devotional advancement without knowledge. Even... (break) ...have appreciated. In Hyderabad, these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs were challenged by the people, that "Bhaktivedanta Swami has gone to foreign countries, and he established so many Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. What did you do? If you say that you disagree with Bhaktivedanta Swami—you worship demigods—so how many demigods' temple you have established?" They challenge like that. "If you say that you are worshiper of Lord Śiva, why don't you go and establish a Śiva temple? You are sitting idly here."

Indian man (2): And Śiva always worshiped Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These are the signs how they are disappointed. They are always ready to commit suicide. So where is success?

Vāsughoṣa: They are practically committing suicide by their activities.

Prabhupāda: That is also another side. But practically you see.

Vāsughoṣa: Hm. But by this smoking cigarettes, meat-eating... I mean, we explain to them that doctors have found that meat-eating...

Prabhupāda: I have seen about some thirty years ago, one man was sitting... I was traveling in the railway apartment, and all of a sudden he jumped through the window.

Devotees: Whew!

Prabhupāda: All of a sudden. He was sitting nicely. What he was thinking I do not know. But he took the opportunity of open window and jumped. I have seen.

Indian man (1): A kind of insanity overpowered him.

Prabhupāda: Insanity... everyone is overpowered by insanity, anyone in this material world and who is trying to be happy. Everyone is in insanity. They are trying to different way. They do not know the only solution is, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇa... (BG 18.66). That they do not, neither they'll accept.

Vāsughoṣa: Especially Indian people, you know, they say, "Well, if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, who will feed me?"

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very difficult at the moment, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If we have that choice, then I humbly say we not open the Ahmedabad temple now because... At other temples, like Calcutta, which have (unclear) and which are in a very critical situation because I haven't given them any men...

Prabhupāda: (break) You require one man to your selection. So nobody will stay. Everyone has to go. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break) The Ahmedabad people cannot maintain this park. How they will maintain their center? And you are not making good life members? Then?

Yaśomatīnandana: These are only few days that they have started making... Last time we came they made eight members in five weeks.

Prabhupāda: Members are made after the festival.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (unclear)

Yaśomatīnandana: My point is this, that people are very attracted to foreigners. If there is one good foreigner, then they will be attracted.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you discriminate, this foreigner to that foreigner?

Yaśomatīnandana: I don't mind anybody. Whatever you say is all right. But I was just thinking like this because if somebody's going to come for a month, two months, then go, he might not put his heart.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: By hearing. That is important, not by seeing. Therefore śruti, Veda, is important, not your eyes.

Harikeśa: When people die, though, there is usually some cause. Like they have a heart attack or they get hit by a car or some disease. So that death is caused by the disease...

Prabhupāda: That is not the cause. That is the effect. You foolish, do not know. You are taking it, cause.

Harikeśa: Well, when you get hit by a car, that's a cause.

Prabhupāda: Just like one man becomes insolvent, loses everything. So he said that "I had no money. Therefore I become insolvent." But that is not the fact. He could not manage; therefore there was scarcity of money and he became failure. So that is effect. On account of his bad management, he came to a position that he could not pay to his creditor, and his business is failure. So that insolvency is not the cause. It is the effect.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bhīṣma was able to remain in his body even on a bed of arrows.

Prabhupāda: So when you are going to die, these are the... On account of imminent death, these are the effects.

Harikeśa: But that means that the body breaks down.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: The body breaks down.

Prabhupāda: At a certain period it will break.

Harikeśa: So that is the cause, the body breaking down.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Cyavana: It's still there.

Prabhupāda: Still can be changed by bhakti. Just like one man is condemned to death. Nobody can change it, but the king can change it. Only by the mercy of king he can be saved, not otherwise. Even the judge who has punished him, he cannot do it. Whatever is ordered, there is order. He cannot change it. Similarly, if you become devotee, then your destiny can be changed. A devotee never is anxious to change his destiny. That is devotee's...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Like Mahārāja Parīkṣit.

Cyavana: But if his destiny takes him away from Kṛṣṇa, then he is not...

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's desire. If Kṛṣṇa desires, He can do anything. So a devotee does not interfere with Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We know that Kṛṣṇa desires everyone to become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Kṛṣṇa says. That is His desire. Sarva-dharmān pa..., mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That is Kṛṣṇa's desire.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Kṛṣṇa is not causing everyone to forget Him.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: That is stated in the śāstra. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Patram means vegetable, leaves; puṣpam, flower. In this way, whatever He says, you collect and offer to Him and take prasādam. Then you are not responsible. And if you collect for yourself even patram without offering to Kṛṣṇa, if you take, you are responsible for killing. It doesn't matter whether you kill a big animal or a small plant. You are responsible. Just like a soldier. He kills hundreds and thousands of men and he is given gold medal. And as soon as he kills one man for his sense gratification he is hanged. Eh? Is it not? He can say, "I have killed so many men. At that time I was not hanged. I was given gold medal. How is that? (laughter) I have killed only one man. I am going to be hanged?" That is law. You cannot do anything on your own account, sense gratification. Then you are responsible. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'ya karma-bandhanaḥ. Everything is stated. Read Bhagavad-gītā very thoroughly and try to understand. Then everything will be clear, how to live, how to organize society. We have to live. The same thing: we are also working, we are also eating, we are sleeping, we are also marrying—but according to Kṛṣṇa's direction. Then it is Kṛṣṇa conscious life and perfect life. And as soon as you do anything whimsically, at your will, then you are responsible. Kṛṣṇa or His representative. Kṛṣṇa is giving instruction, and His representative is explaining. In both ways Kṛṣṇa is helping. So even so much facility being offered to you, if you don't take advantage, then you are committing suicide. Ātmahā. Ātmahā. Just like the sea is now calm and quiet. If you want to go somewhere, take advantage of it. And if you start your boat while it is cyclone, then you'll be drowned. So Kṛṣṇa has left the book of instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is favorable condition. And the spiritual master is the captain, and you take advantage. Your, this human body is a good boat. So good boat, favorable condition, good captain—take advantage of crossing this ocean. Otherwise you are committing suicide. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult to cross over this ocean of nescience, but these are the favorable conditions. One should take advantage of these favorable conditions and cross over this ocean of nescience.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up, more people. Just like I went alone in Europe and America. So I have trained them. So it will depend on your training power, the more people will be attracted. If you advertise, "Come here," and if you have no power to attract them, then it will not be... You must be attractive to bring them. And that is spiritual attraction. You must behave yourself nicely. Then people will come. If you become purified, then naturally they will come. Just like if you prepare nice preparation with pure ghee, customers will be naturally attracted and they will pay and purchase. And if you prepare rubbish thing, one man may be cheated, but that will not be attraction for the general. Purity is required. That will attract. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). One must be pure. Then he will be able to attract. So if they see practically that "These people are very happy; they have no anxiety," then they will be attracted. Is it not? What is the difficulty? But if you want brothel and night dancing and wine and meat-eating, then it is spoiled. It becomes impure. To become pure is not at all difficult. Rather, to become impure, it is difficult. But people, with all difficulties, they are becoming impure. Otherwise the idea which I am giving, you can start anywhere, anywhere, any part of the world. It doesn't matter. Locally you produce your own food. You get your own cloth. Have sufficient milk, vegetables. Then what you want more? And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is Vedic civilization: plain living, high thinking. And poor thinking, poor in thought, poor in behavior, and living with motorcar and this, that, nonsense. It is all nonsense civilization. A first-class Rolls Royce car, and who is sitting there? A third-class negro. This is going on. You'll find these things in Europe and America. This is going on. A first-class car and a third-class negro. That's all. Is it not?

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Because man is more intelligent. He can misuse his independence and intelligence, whereas animal cannot do that. He is not so intelligent. He has... That is the defect of the modern civilization. They have been described as duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina means he has got brain more intelligent than the animal, but the brain is being utilized for mischievous activities. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. Brain should be utilized for some benevolent work for the good of the living entities. But this brain, modern educated brain, is being misused for discovering something which is very dangerous to the human society. Therefore duṣkṛtina. And he is getting Nobel Prize because he has discovered this atomic weapon which is so dangerous, and he is glorified, "Oh, you have done so nice scientific discovery." What is that discovery? "That you can kill... Instead of one man with gun, you can kill one thousand men. Therefore you must be offered Nobel Prize." This is man's appreciation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Better to walk this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are called mūḍhas, all rascals. Na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. How you can understand that this man is mischievously meritorious? How you can understand? Duṣkṛtina means mischievously meritorious. This man is meritorious, but he is using his merit for mischievous activities. That is called duṣkṛtina. So how you can understand this man is mischievously meritorious? You can say, "How is that? A man is meritorious and at the same time he is mischievous?" There're so many organization, especially in Western country, big, big rogues' organization simply for cheating, simply for smuggling. They have got merit. Otherwise how they have organized such big, big organization? But what for? All mischievous activities, harassing government, harassing people. The merit is being used. There are many organizations in the Western country. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's true.

Morning Walk -- October 20, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone simply working hard like asses. That's all. This is their happiness. Just like the hog, he's working very hard to eat stool, and he is thinking happy. He is getting fatty. Do you think to work hard day and night and eat stool is happiness?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: But he is thinking; therefore he is getting fat. You generally find the pigs are fatty because they think, "Oh, I am very happy." Yes. One man gets fatty when he thinks that "I am very happy." You know that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Prabhupāda: This is psychology. When he thinks, "I am very happy," he gets fatty.

Harikeśa: But if I think I'm happy, isn't that enough?

Prabhupāda: They think. That is another thing. But you do not know what is happiness. These rascals, they do not think that what is happiness. Suppose I have arranged for so-called happiness. Then I am going to die also. Who will enjoy this?

Harikeśa: But I'm not worried about it.

Prabhupāda: That is the proof that you are a rascal. "Fools rush in where angels dare not." That is the proof. The hog is thinking, "I am very happy." Therefore he is hog. He is not a human being. Hog proves that he is hog by thinking that "I am very happy. I am getting fatty." (break)

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Quality, you'll understand first of all come to the quality. Without having quality, how he'll understand the quality? You follow the instruction of your spiritual master, of the śāstra. That is your duty. Quality, no quality—it is not your position to understand. When the quality comes there is no force. You will have a taste for chanting. You will desire at that time, "Why sixteen round? Why not sixteen thousand rounds?" That is quality. That is quality. It is by force. You'll not do it; therefore at least sixteen rounds. But when you come to the quality, you will feel yourself, "Why sixteen? Why not sixteen thousand?" That is quality, automatically. Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura was doing. He was not forced to do. Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He requested, "Now you are old enough. You can reduce." So he refused, "No. Up to the end of my life I shall go on." That is quality. Have you got such tendency that you will go on chanting and nothing to do? That is quality. Now you are forced to do. Where is the question of quality? That is given a chance so that one day you may come to the quality, not that you have come to the quality. Quality is different. Athāśaktiḥ. Aśakti, attachment. Just like Rūpa Gosvāmī says that "How shall I chant with one tongue, and how shall I hear, two ears? Had it been millions of tongue and trillions of ear, then I could enjoy it." This is quality. Quality is not so cheap. Maybe after many births. For the time being you go on following the rules and regulations. It is being done by force. Where is the quality? So you wanted to understand quality. This is the quality. You'll not be forced, but automatically you'll desire. That is quality. I am writing books. I am not being forced by anyone. Everyone can do that. Why one does not do it? Why I get up at night, one o'clock, and do this job? Because I cannot do without it. How one will do it artificially? This is quality. Therefore they like my purports. That quality is shown by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śunyayitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda virahena me. "Oh, I do not see Govinda. The whole world is vacant." Śunyayitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda virahena me. This is quality. Just like we have got practical example. One man's beloved has died, and he is seeing the whole universe vacant. Is it vacant? So that is quality of love. So there is no formula of quality. It is to be understood by himself. Just like if after eating something you feel refreshed and get strength, that is quality. You haven't got to take certificate:

Morning Walk -- November 8, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: LSD begets a condition of the mind just like...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be...

Dr. Patel: ...nirakalpa-samādhi. One man told me that's a very good... (laughing) I say we...

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense. Nonsense. Fools.

Dr. Patel: Nirakalpa-samādhi. But they must be getting some sort of condition of the mind, though temporary. That is why they must have turned to that, no?

Prabhupāda: There is no consciousness.

Dr. Patel: Were you having the experience?

Prabhupāda: First of all you must give it up. Our philosophy is first of all you must give it up, all these bad habits.

Dr. Patel: That is the first condition among Vaiṣṇavas, that they should not have any of these, neither...

Prabhupāda: Illicit sex, then meat-eating. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Bhāgavata: ...leaving the four sinful activities. Then one can develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, this is practicing. This is practicing. Unless one is... Yeṣam tu anta-gataṁ pāpam. Unless one is free from sinful activities, one cannot understand God. It is not possible. God is not so cheap.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The books are there, what is happening actually, that's all. Books... Therefore it is practical because what is written in the śāstra, that is happening. Therefore it is practical. (break) Throughout this age, the symptoms of Kali-yuga, they are happening practically.

Yaśomatīnandana: (break) ...all the Māyāvādīs, transcendentalists, they also don't believe in śāstras.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: This one man, he is a great devotee of one so-called swāmī, and he was quoting Bhagavad-gītā inside and out. And then...

Prabhupāda: He doesn't believe in.

Yaśomatīnandana: No. He doesn't believe in Kṛṣṇa. He comes to the words that "You surrender everything to Kṛṣṇa." Then he says, "Well, actually this Bhagavad-gītā is written by some man, unknown man." So I said, "What is the value of it then? Why are you quoting Bhagavad-gītā? Why are you learning it?" "It is knowledge, very nice knowledge." "So any knowledge imparted by any mundane man, what value does it have?"

Prabhupāda: Why don't you accept it? What is the use of quoting?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. That they will not do because they know they can make money by quoting Bhagavad-gītā. People will not accept anybody if they openly say that they don't believe in Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: That was going on. It is the first time. We are pressing: "You must take it seriously." It is the first time. Otherwise this was going on, at least for the last two hundred years.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The professor goes to hell, and the student also goes. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is their close association.

Dr. Patel: That is the way they...

Prabhupāda: So you know that story, that one man was drinking, so his friend told him, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my mother drinks." "Oh, she will also go." "My father drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "My brother drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "Then where is hell?" (laughter) "Father, mother, brother, myself, if we live together, then where is hell?" Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: That's a fact. Education by association is the superior method, whatever type of education may be.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Whatever type of education may be, but that is the real education.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not whatever. This is the education, that the...

Dr. Patel: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. This is education. There is no question of ABCD. First of all brahmacārī gurukule vasan dantaḥ. He is to be trained how to become sober and gentle.

Dr. Patel: Self-controlled.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: But the real scientists don't say this, that they are karta. That is the difference in the modern scientists and the little, hundred years back scientists.

Prabhupāda: Here the scientists says, "There is no need of God."

Dr. Patel: That one man told you, and you have been, I mean, deriding all the scientists.

Prabhupāda: No, no, mostly they are speaking that way.

Dr. Patel: You are very harsh to the scientists.

Prabhupāda: But they have created havoc, godlessness, atheism, all over the world. That is our protest.

Dr. Patel: And we are taking the benefit of that science by flying by the plane, by going by train...

Prabhupāda: It has become a difficult task.

Dr. Patel: ...by putting on these clothes, and so many things.

Prabhupāda: Just like the students, they say... What do they say? The students?

Girirāja: That in the beginning there was a chunk, and it exploded, and there's no God.

Prabhupāda: How they are spoiling the career. Whole life is spoiled. They are being taught in this way. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is going on, schools, colleges: "Don't believe in God." That has become a fashion, advancement. Yes. (Hindi)

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Dr. Patel: But you must be benevolent to these people, at least to an extent, to the scientists, that all scientists are wrong, are they? All scientists are not gadhas. Some of them are good (Hindi) and some of them evolve into man even.

Prabhupāda: But we say... If somebody says that "I have got my own way to understand," he is not scientist.

Dr. Patel: Their own way, a section of humanity's way. Not one man's. Science...

Prabhupāda: There cannot be many ways.

Dr. Patel: You see, our sad-darśana. The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the modern science. The Vaiśeṣikas also wanted, were going in search of God by their own way, were they not? The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the physics and chemistry and mathematics, in true sense. (Hindi) Sad-darśana. Vaiśeṣika is one of the recognized darśanas of our ancient, glorious past. I think I am not wrong, sir, in that way. You will pardon me if I say, and I mean, press my point further.

Prabhupāda: No, you will say it is in your own way, even if it is wrong...

Dr. Patel: No, no. These are Vaiśeṣikas. They are Vaisesikas. Sudras you may call them, but Vaiśeṣika-śāstra was also found out by ancient civilized Indians in search of God.

Prabhupāda: No...

Dr. Patel: And the physics, chemistry, biology, science...

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa was the greatest civilized man, but he is considered as rākṣasa.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can, but you have no eyes.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) I call him also mahārāja. He's a brāhmaṇa.

Yaśomatīnandana: Brahma-bandhu.

Dr. Patel: I don't know whether you are a bandhu or yourself. Well, I call you what I...

Nanda-kumāra: In South America one man went up the Amazon River and he found a place where he could pick gold nuggets up out of the water.

Dr. Patel: Gold nuggets are there in the rivers, so many, in Africa.

Prabhupāda: Gold?

Dr. Patel: Gold nuggets. Because gold never get, I mean, oxidized. It is always in (unclear). So nuggets, they are available in big rivers even in Africa. Because when they come through the mountain, you know.

Prabhupāda: There is one river in India also, Suvarna-rekha, between Orissa and Bengal.

Dr. Patel: The sand is of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. There you can find gold.

Brahmānanda: The city of Johannesburg is built on a gold reef, a reef of gold. There's so much gold there, and to dig it up they will have to break the city streets. They have deliberately built the city on top of the gold.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: These are government buildings. They are not properly maintained. The roads are not properly maintained. So New Delhi light is diminishing. And the shabby motor buses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These buses are also so old.

Prabhupāda: Old and creating sound so much.

Tejās: They are losing several crores of rupees every year. One man told me that he rents buses to them, one of the men who came two, three days ago. So, he was telling before, he rents buses to the D.T.C., to the Delhi Transportation Corporation. He rents it to them for a rupee a kilometer and he makes about forty paisa. And even though they are getting it for a rupee a kilometer, they are still losing money on it. He is making profit and they are losing it. Because they sell the spare parts. They're so corrupt.

Prabhupāda: Take away the...

Tejās: Yes, the workers there... There's about sixty percent of their buses only, running. Forty percent are disabled because they are always losing the parts somehow.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Also, I know, in Delhi, what the people do is... A lot of people, they don't buy the ticket. They give the conductor half the money, and so he lets them go free.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Then where the income? There is no income and there is loss.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not everyone does it, but students and a lot of young people do that.

Morning Walk -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But you are also in not very good shape.

Harikeśa: But I can put on a coat. They're standing out in the cold.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) In your country nobody likes white, they have begun to tan. So you are not (in) good shape in consideration of ladies. (chuckling) How you can say that it is not in good shape? It has got another lady to appreciate. You may not appreciate. One man, lady, may not appreciate your beauty but that does not mean you are not beautiful.

Caitya-guru: It says ulu.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Caitya-guru: Name of that tree.

Devotee: Ulu.

Harikeśa: Sometimes the trees just die because there's not sufficient . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not the standard that you do not like somebody, therefore he is not liked by others. That is not very good argument. That is applicable everywhere. The point is that it is a living entity, it so stout and strong, who is giving him food? That is the point.

Harikeśa: Well, my argument was sometimes he's not being supplied the proper way so therefore economic development is necessary.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So, then Kṛṣṇa is speaking, otherwise how he heard? Hm? This nonsense is going on. Everywhere, it is very difficult position. So many rascals. And we have to push on our movement through so many obstacles, but still we are going on, that is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Otherwise we are simply meeting with obstacles. What can be done? We have to go, forward. I, I met in... same idea! Impersonalism, bogus thought and no clear idea.

Bhāgavata: One man came to Calcutta temple, and he insisted that Kṛṣṇa was impersonal, that He has no form. That He was, ultimately there is just the Brahman. I said that Kṛṣṇa says in the Gītā, brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham; He says, "that aham means the Brahman." I said that if that aham means the Brahman, then why is Kṛṣṇa being redundant in saying that the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? Brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham, He just said Brahman is subordinate to aham, Me. So if aham means Brahman then why is Kṛṣṇa saying the Brahman is subordinate to the Brahman? And they are swamis, yogis and avatāras. It is very dangerous position, very dangerous. We have to deal with all rascals and fools. And they have made some position, of course that position is nothing, hm? A big big, I mean to say, Mr. Nanda is also big thing, of this idea, nirveśeṣa-śūnyavādī; still we cannot change our position. We must go on with our conviction and that is real. Reality. So, begin kīrtana. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa!

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) is sufficient. If you get one man who follows you, he is more than thousands who is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you attend daily, I can speak daily.

Dr. Patel: I do come daily, don't I? (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Then I'll speak. Just like Śukadeva Goswāmi, he spoke Bhāgavatam, and there was only candidate Parīkṣit Mahārāja. But he said continuously for seven days.

Dr. Patel: Those ṛṣis came to hear.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because he knew that "Here is a gentleman, he'll understand."

Dr. Patel: But I am not that.... Parīkṣit.... I am a fool.

Prabhupāda: No, the standard is like that.

Dr. Patel: I am a fool, sir. As you have been calling me very often. It is the satsaṅga which really caused the (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In good health.

Dr. Patel: He always runs like this. All the time. He is so much frightened of his wife in the house that he cannot speak a word. Still he is in the house. That is why he makes good of the things when he comes out. (laughs) He behaves so naughtily like that. (Hindi with one man) Sir, shall we go this way, if you don't mind?

Prabhupāda: That Mr. Punja is staying? From Fiji? He has not come?

Devotee: Oh, no, he hasn't come back yet. He had two days' business, he said. He said he would come after that. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...doing there, these slums?

Dr. Patel: This was, they wanted to, er, have a officer of customs. The public, I mean, objected to, because they are imposing upon them, the way of the public walking. So they stopped it, but they are not taking away all these walls. Otherwise where the poor fellows will make the hutments?

Prabhupāda: That is what they are doing.

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) The municipality has no objection. (Hindi with other man) Therefore Gandhi says that he does not give away these poor people...

Prabhupāda: Then why they are in the hands of the empire lost? Why they lost their empire?

Dr. Patel: Because they were shortsighted.