Martin: Primitive cavemen?
Prabhupāda: No, not only cavemen: the animals, birds, beasts, other than.
Martin: Oh, I see. (more thunder)
Prabhupāda: But this human form of life is better than demigods' life because demigods, they are materially very opulent. Just like when the Americans came in India, they thought, "Demigods." Is it not?
Martin: The Indians thought. Hm.
Prabhupāda: Because they're better looking, good looking, intelligent, powerful. Similarly, just like this controller or director of this rain department is Indra. This thundering, it is under his direction this thundering is going on. He throws the thunderbolts and cracks the mountain, and then we get chunks. That is his business. As in government there are different departments, similarly, God has got different departments, and the in-charge of that department is demigod. Creation, that's Brahma; sustenance or maintenance, Himself, Viṣṇu; and dissolution, Lord Siva.
Martin: How is human life better than that?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Martin: How is the human life better than the demigod?
Prabhupāda: Better than in this way, that just like here also on this planet, those who are richer section, they particularly do not care to know what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They're proud, puffed-up for material opulence. "Ah, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Let us enjoy drink." That is their position. So it is a curse for them. Their richness is a curse for them, that they cannot adore such a nice movement. The middle class section, they are being attracted. Similarly, the demigods, they have got very, very high standard of life, duration of life, beauty, opulence, facilities, so generally they forget. Not forget; they are servant. Just like government servant does not mean a devotee. So they are devotee, officially devotee. They, they offer their obeisances to Kṛṣṇa. (Sanskrit), worship by Lord Siva or Brahma, but their devotion is conditional because they're posted in such high post, so they may remain in their post. In this way, exchange. But in the human society you'll find devotees, there is no question of exchange; it is simply love. (more thunder)
Martin: These demigods are what we call angels?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: So how does science fit in with all of this?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Let him speak.
Martin: This is why I'm here. I know science...
Prabhupāda: Hm? He can...
Martin: I, I know a bit of where it's going, and I don't find it compelling, fulfilling.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Martin: It's just the empty... (indistinct) one half of the world.
Prabhupāda: Scientist business is he can become a great devotee. Just like...
- idam hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
- sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
- avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
- yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
- (SB 1.5.22)
(aside:) You sit down. Why you don't sit down like... Yad-uttamaśloka-guṇanuvarṇanam. Idam hi puṁsas, sviṣṭasya, tapa, sūktasya tapasaḥ. If you are scientist, scientist means you are learned, learned scholar, you know or you've heard from the books so many things. So your duty will be that whatever you have learned, you try to explain all these scientific research work as qualification of the Supreme Lord. Any scientific law, just like law of gravity...