Not meant for... (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"never meant for" |"not meant for"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Haridāsa was very old man. He was Muhammadan.

Hayagrīva: He was the person that was thrown in the river.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: So he finally met his end here, in the fifth scene.

Prabhupāda: We are not meant for those... Of course, Haridāsa Ṭhākura has a separate life, but that we are not going to show.

Hayagrīva: Yes. All right. This particular incident.

Prabhupāda: Particular incident is significant, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a brāhmaṇa and He was a sannyāsī. According to social custom He should not touch even a Muhammadan, but this Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a Muhammadan, and at his death He took the body Himself and danced, and He put him in the graveyard and distributed prasādam. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura for two, three days he was feeling not well. Because he was Muhammadan he did not enter the temple of Jagannātha temple. Because the Hindus were very strict. He was devotee, he never mind. Why he should create some row? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his behavior that he did not want to create any... Because he has become devotee. Forcibly he was not going to the temple. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was daily coming and seeing him. While going to take bath in the sea, He'll first of all see Haridāsa. "Haridāsa? What you are doing?" Haridāsa will offer his respect and He will sit and talk for some time. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will go to take His bath. In this way, one day when He came He saw Haridāsa not feeling very well. "Haridāsa? How is your health?" "Yes Sir, it is not very... After all, it is body." Then the third day He saw that Haridāsa is going to leave his body today. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Haridāsa, what do you desire?" Both of them could understand. Haridāsa said that "This is my last stage. If You kindly stand before me." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu stood before him and he left his body. (pause)

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: That is automatically done. It is so nice process. Then your next question is, "Is diet an important segment of the word?" Yes. Diet is very important thing. Just like when a patient goes to a physician, he prescribes a certain type of diet. Why? That's a practical fact. Why you accept a physician prescription of diet? Suppose a man is suffering from diabetes; his diet is different. A man is suffering from tuberculosis; his diet is different. A man is suffering from typhoid fever; his diet is different. Therefore diet shall not be extravagant or whimsical. They must be selected. First of all we have to see what is the diet of the human being. Actually I read in some scientific magazine, a medical magazine, that our teeth is not meant for eating meats. These teeth are meant for eating fruits. Actually the shape of the teeth is like that, just like sharp knife. You can, apple you can take immediately. But if you take one piece of meat, you cannot eat so easily with these teeth. So first of all you have to understand what is your diet. So your diet is different from animals' diet. You take anything. Even stool is food for a certain animal, but that does not mean I have to eat stool also. Stool may be eatable for a certain type of animal. "Oh, that is not my diet or food." Similarly, we have to discriminate. Now so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa conscious person, we are studying Kṛṣṇa conscious. What is our diet? Our diet is Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, what is offered, as I told you, that something is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take. We don't take anything direct. Just like these fruits. We have first of all offered to Kṛṣṇa. Here is a plate. Then we take. That is our system. Even we take vegetables, fruits, we don't take directly. We first of all prepare or cut into pieces, offer to the Deity. Then we take. Now, the idea is that we take the remnants of food offered to Kṛṣṇa. Now, when you offer something to some respectable person, you ask him, "What can I offer you?" If I go to your house and if you want to offer me something to eat, you will ask me what I wish to eat.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal. So that... Bhāgavata says that for economic solution... religion is not meant for economic solution. Economic solution is there, either you be religious or not religious. In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there. There is fruit, there is flower. So either you be religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. Your economic problem is settled already. Just like in the prisonhouse, they are all criminals. That does not mean they will starve to death. The government has all arrangement to feed them. Similarly, although this material world is prisonhouse, all criminals are here, revolt, to a person are here, those who do not care for God. But still, their fooding problem, their lodging problem is there by arrangement of God. Everything is there. So Bhāgavata says, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate (SB 1.2.9). Don't execute religious principles for making your economic problem solved. Then? "We require some money." Yes. "What for?" Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. And even if you get money, that is not for your sense gratification. Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya.

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: And if I utilize my energy for sense gratification, then I am cats and dogs." So nārthasya. If you get money... You must get money. But it is not meant for sense gratification. "Then what is the, it is meant? We have got senses. We have to satisfy it." Yes. You have to satisfy it, but not for enjoyment. As far as you require it. You require fooding. Yes, for maintaining your body. Not for satisfying the tongue. "This, I want to eat this, I want to eat that, I want to eat that." No. Eat something. Just maintain your body. That's all. You sleep just to keep yourself fit to work. Not that sleeping for twelve hours, fourteen hours. No. Six, seven, utmost eight. That's all. Then eating, sleeping, defending. That's also required. Defend yourself. Not to encroach upon other's property. Just like Hitler sending soldiers in others' country. Why? You defend your own country. That's all right. You defend your home. That is not prohibited. The śāstra allows it. If somebody comes to encroach upon your property, you kill him immediately. That is said. But not kill unnecessarily. Just like Arjuna was taught, "Kill them. They have insulted your wife, they have encroached upon your property. They must be killed." That is allowed. But you don't be aggressive. So ahāra-nidrā-bhaya, and sex, sex life. Yes. Just get yourself married and have sex life only for children. Not for other purposes. So kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ. Kāma means we have got some demands of the body. That is called kāma or lust. So that does not mean that we have to gratify the senses. As far as necessary, we shall utilize it. Nendriya-prītiḥ. Then how to live? Now, kāmasya, that satisfaction of the senses should be allowed just to keep myself fit. I must live. Even if I become Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must work. So that is allowed. But what is my... What is your main business? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha kārmabhiḥ. Your only business is to understand what you are, what God is, what is this world, what is your relationship. This is your main business. This is your main business. Not that you earn money and employ it for sense gratification, as it is going on in this materialistic way of life. Nobody is inquisitive to know what he is. How can he?

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is my program. Because Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not possible for everyone. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we learn, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). After many, many births one can come to this. So it is not possible that a mass of people, a large quantity of people will be able to grasp it. You see? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Another place it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). After many thousands of men, one may be interested how to liberate himself. And out of many such liberated persons, one may understand what is Kṛṣṇa. So understanding of Kṛṣṇa is not very easy thing. But Lord Caitanya is so munificent that He has given us a, I mean to say, easy process. (indistinct) Otherwise Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not easy. Because Kṛṣṇa is the last word of Absolute Truth. Generally, people are just like animals. Out of many such persons, one becomes interested in the scriptures. And out of many such persons, if they're attracted to the scriptures, they're attracted to the ritualistic ceremony for improving their economic condition. You see? Just like Christians, they go to... Not Christian, everyone. They take up religion with a motive that they may improve their economic position. Dharma, artha. Artha means money. And then why artha? Why you want money? Now, to satisfy senses. Kāma. Dharma, artha, kāma. And when one becomes frustrated in sense gratification, then liberation, to merge. These four things are going on. Dharma, artha, kāma. The Bhāgavata says that dharma is not meant for acquiring money. Money is not meant for satisfying senses. Sense gratification should be accepted simply to maintain this body. That's all. The real business is tattva-jijñāsā, to understand. The human life is meant for understanding the Absolute Truth. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā naś ceha yat karmabhiḥ. Kāmasya nendriya-pritir labho jīveta yāvatā (SB 1.2.10). Kāmasya, sense gratification, does not mean you have to increase the volume of sense gratification. No. Jīveta yāvatā, you have to accept sense gratification so far as you can live very nicely. The real business is jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Every human being should be inquisitive to know the Absolute Truth. That is the real business of human life. So to come to that business, you won't find mass of people. It is not possible. You don't expect.

Room Conversation -- September 9, 1969, Hamburg:

Prabhupāda: So why don't you stay here and join your son for preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because your son is so good, you must be good. Because a son cannot be good unless the mother is good. Because son inherits the mother's quality. That is nature. This Hayagrīva's mother wrote me first one letter of congratulations, and she came also to see me in New Vrindaban, his father and mother. Especially his mother is very happy. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will produce good father and mother, and therefore they will have good children, and there will be no problem in the world. If everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Not everyone, even ten per cent people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there will be no problem. Problem is created due to bad children. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Varṇa-saṅkara. So if there are good children, there is no problem. Even in this material world, everything will become happy. The basic principle of Vedic civilization is to create good children. All the rules and regulations, everything is there just to create good children. In the first chapter of Bhagavad-gītā these things are described very nicely by Arjuna. There are many purificatory processes to create a good child. A human being is not meant for creating offspring like cats and dogs. They must produce very good child. That is Vedic civilization. Good child means Kṛṣṇa conscious child. That's all. Yes. So we are trying to turn these children of the Western world, good children. And people should cooperate with us, this movement. We are taking care of the children, especially young boys and girls who are coming, and we are taking care of them very nicely. Sometimes we are getting them married also, to make their life very peaceful and intelligent and spiritually advanced and make a solution of life. So people should come forward to cooperate with this movement. How many children you have got? Two?

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very glad to see you. Be happy and make all others happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. That is Vedic idea. Everyone be happy. That is the benediction. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says also the same thing, that let this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement be preached in every village, in every town of the world. People will be happy. That is His foretelling. So any missions, any high ideals, should be preached just to make everyone happy. Because in the material existence, there is no happiness. That is a fact. There cannot be any happiness. This place is not meant for happiness because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the Lord Himself says this is a place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries, this material world. And aśāśvatam, and temporary. Everything is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right. Whatever miserable is there, I'll accept this," that is also, has no value. Even if you accept, nature will not allow you to accept it and remain there. Aśāśvatam. You have to leave. So Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ: (BG 8.15) "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to return back to this miserable condition of life which is not only miserable but temporary." So we should understand that. Nature is so cruel. In America, President Kennedy, he was thought to be the most fortunate man, happy man, young man, was elected President, nice wife, children, honor all over the world—(snaps finger)—within a second, finished. Temporary. Now what is his condition? Where he is? If life is eternal, if living entity is eternal, where he has gone? What he is doing? Is he happy or he is distressed? Or he's born in America or China? Nobody can say. But it is a fact that as living entity, he's eternal, he's existing. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā philosophy. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body the living entity is not destroyed. He is there. That we can understand. Just like in your childhood, you had a small body. That body is no more, but you are existing. So it is natural, when this body will not exist, I will exist in another body.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society. So our conclusion, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that this body, human body, it is not meant for working very hard for sense gratification. In the modern civilization the ultimate goal, aim, is sense gratification. That's all. Beyond that, they do not know anything more. They do not know what is next life. There is no department of knowledge or science, scientific department, to study what is there after life, after finishing this body. That is a great, I mean to say, department of knowledge. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehe. Deha means this body. So there is a dehinaḥ who owns the body, dehi. So dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The dehi, the owner of the body, is within, and the body's changing from one form to another. The body of a child, baby, a certain type of form, it changes into another type of form when he's child, another type when boy, another type when he's young, another type, he's old. This is going on, but the owner of the body existing.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Dai Nippon representative: Even you catch cold, you don't go to, you don't consult with doctor, medical doctor.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population (break) ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant. (Japanese)

Dai Nippon representative: There are some special vegetables for the Buddhists also. Vegetable meat.

Prabhupāda: Vegetable meat?

Dai Nippon representative: Vegetable meat for Buddhists.

Prabhupāda: Oh, vegetable meat. Yes. Yes, Buddhist, I know that. They are strictly vegetarian, those who are strict followers. So now we have to go to some train?

Karandhara: Are there any other points?

Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct)

Karandhara: Yes. (indistinct) ...on this point. Is there any...?

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Even if you get it, what do you get? You go to... Supposed you go to church: "God, give us our daily bread." God is giving, then what do you get? Bread is given to the animals also. Why you are going to the church? That is the Communist say, that "We shall give you bread. Why you waste your time with so-called religions?" The politician says that "You want to be happy, there is technology. Why you are going to pray to God? This is all nonsense." They are thinking that. But prayer is not meant for that purpose. Prayer... Just like we are praying, but our prayer is "Kṛṣṇa, kindly engage me in Your service," Hare Kṛṣṇa. "O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, O the Lord Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." This is our prayer. We are not going to prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." And if you get bread, then what do you gain?

Śyāmasundara: We've all experienced that. We've had so much bread. What did we get?

Prabhupāda: That's it. Even you get bread, what do you get? Bread is already given even to the animals. That they do not know. Therefore, they take religion for material gain. Dharma artha. And Bhāgavata says, arthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. When you get money, it is not for satisfaction of your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). And when it is the question of kāma, desire, that does not mean sense gratification. Lābho jīveta yāvatā. Simply you have to accept thing for living. It is not that you shall not eat. You eat, live. Then what for living? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Your working so hard is not that to develop your material condition of life. You live peacefully without any disturbance of hunger, but your life should be engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, asking about Kṛṣṇa. That is life. So we don't want to stop all the activities. But they are busy always, they have no time for... Ask all these men, they are obstructing: "What these people are doing?" There is no end of their sense gratification. First of all get one motorcar is required, "All right." As soon as he gets money, "I'll purchase another one for my son, another for my daughter, another for my wife." Going on, going on.

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well vegetarians are not animals. (laughter) In India, you'll still you'll find ninety-percent of the population, they're vegetarians, strictly. Always vegetarians. They're quite healthy, they're working. Therefore vegetarians are human beings. Vegetables, that food is meant for human beings. That is natural. For a human being to become nonvegetarian is unnatural. And to become vegetarian, that is natural. Just like our teeth, it is meant for cutting vegetables, fruit, not meat. You will find cutting by these teeth, meat, it will be difficult. But you take any vegetable, any fruit, you can immediately cut. Our medical laws says that anything eatable which you cannot cut with the teeth and smash it properly, it will not be digested. So fruits and vegetables you can properly cut even raw, not to speak of cooked. Raw vegetables and raw fruits, you can cut with these teeth and smash it and you swallow, it will be nicely digested. You get all food value. But you cannot do in that way, raw meat. It is not possible. You cannot take raw meat or bite one animal and take some flesh out of it. You cannot. But animal can do that. They are made for that purpose. But that is natural. If you take your natural food, if you live naturally, if you fulfill your natural desires, then it is natural. And as soon as you go against these things, that is unnatural. So if you give up your natural tendency as human being and take artificially the way of life of an animal, that is not natural. In human society the..., however uncivilized human being, there is the process of covering this private part. Even in jungle they cover with the bark of tree. Why? That is the human being. But an animal in the jungle, they do not care. They can go, the same jungle—I don't speak of the city life—even in jungle life, the aborigines, still they have got some cover. Now they are becoming naked, natural life, nudism. Huh? That John Lennon, there is a picture in his sitting room, standing naked. This is madness. That is not natural life. If you go against your natural life, that is madness. Just like a madman walks on the street naked. So these are... So our mission is to advise everyone, educate everyone to become exactly like human being. That you can become by understanding God. The books, educational institutions, are meant for human being, for knowledge. All the books all over the world, they are not meant for cats and dogs. They are meant for human beings. The schools, colleges and universities, institutions, they are meant for human being, not for the cats and dogs. So we must take advantage of these books, institution, knowledge, teachers. That is real human life. Just like your guitar.

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): What's the future of that in..., in India today?

Prabhupāda: That, not only in India. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not meant for India or America. Of course, I am deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in the Western world. That is his grace. He wanted that Western people, who are intelligent, they should learn what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So my mission is for the Western country, but it is not meant for any particular country, nation. It is meant for every living entity. Now, there are many unfortunate living entities and there are many fortunate living entities. So we are preaching this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in America or Western country, only the fortunate persons they are coming. But if few of them come and understand, then by their example and behavior, the whole population will be benefited. It is not expected that cent percent population will be able to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but by the examples of the few, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21). Just like you'll find in our temple it is always crowded to the fullest extent. We require a more spacious home. But not all of them our initiated students. Out of them say ten percent may be our initiated students. But still people are coming to see. They are following. Gradually they will also become student. So it is a very important movement, scientific movement. I therefore request learned scholars like you, government, scientist, philosopher, they should study. For them we have written so many books. Not only that. It is not that we are simply chanting and dancing. If you are philosopher, if you are scholar, if you are scientist, we can give you proof in a scientific way, in a philosophical way, scholarly way; therefore these books are there. So my only request is that all the leaders of the society, they should come forward, study this movement and take to it. That will be beneficial. We don't ask blindly, just like one follows some faith or type of religion blindly, and after sometimes they give it up. No. We say, our predecessor Lord Caitanya says, caitanyer dayār kathā karaha avicara(?). You just put your judgment about the mercy of Lord Caitanya, and if you do that then you will find wonder in this movement. (aside) So, you put little ice. Ice, bring little ice. (devotees enter and offer obeisances) Hare Kṛṣṇa, come on. Yes. Thank you very much. (to guest) So you accept this definition, of religion, that religion means the law given by God. Simple point. Have you got any objection, or do you accept it?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: If he does not know, if he is in darkness for the next life, then what is the meaning of this gṛhastha and vānaprastha and this...?

Scholar: We believe in the stage of life so we prepare from childhood and after ...

Prabhupāda: Yes, not only we, but everyone should prepare from the childhood. This is... This Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for a particular class of men. It is meant for the human society. So this education should be spread all over the world to save them from pitfalls of a life of darkness. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We do not mean that the Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the Hindus, or for the Indians, or for the Indonesians. No, no, it is meant for everyone. They should know the science.

Scholar: Are there Christian also, or Muslim also joining this...

Prabhupāda: What's this? Can't you see? There are many Christians, many...

Scholar: Do they have to be Hindus first?

Prabhupāda: Well, why you are stressing to become Hindu and Christian? It is that education for understanding the values of life.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Any intelligent man will take it. Suppose if you want to be a great mathematician does it mean that you must be a Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan?

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...transmigration of soul. Suppose this time I am very great scientist, and next life I become a tree like this. What is my advancement? Stand up for ten thousand years. What is the advancement?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Going backwards.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Going to hell, that's all. You are trying to be naked; nature will say, "Yes, you stand here naked for ten thousand years." Yes. That is the punishment for being naked. Human life is not meant for becoming naked. That is according to Vedic civilization a great sin. You see. So their, their propensity they are increasing to become naked like our George... What's his name? Lennon, Lennon. So next time he is going to be tree, stand up. Otherwise wherefrom the trees come? They cannot explain. You become tree. That's all. Just like the Nalakūvara; they were taking bath naked without caring for Nārada. All right, you become naked for one hundred years.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Among the trees also, there are different grades of trees, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, everywhere different grades. That is God's creation, variety.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So those trees which bear nice fruits and nice flowers, they are...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are pious, pious trees. Otherwise why I am taking care of this leaf? Because the flower is there. And who cares for this leaf? Trampling down. As in the human society, there is first-class man, second-class man, third-class man, similarly in every field, first-class, animal also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: There are good teachers. We are teaching Sanskrit and English especially.

Guest (3): They teach Sanskrit, English?

Prabhupāda: That is what. We are preparing them so that they can read our literature which is in Sanskrit and English. As soon as they can read, that's education finished. They will understand, practical demonstration, ārati, worship of the Deity, and they play mṛdaṅga, they chant, they join Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting. They are not meant for any technology.

Guest (3): No.

Prabhupāda: No. That we do not train. We are training them to become actual devotee, brāhmaṇa. Not for become technologists. Technologists, there are many.

Guest (1): I think the spiritual element is also essential in life.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That is the only business of human life.

Guest (1): There must be little bit of, at least little bit of spiritual element in life. Not the whole time. (break) ...I believe every (break) ...goes to this sort of school.

Guest (3): There are so many.

Prabhupāda: They have no idea.

Guest (1): I have not been there. I just heard about it.

Prabhupāda: Actual spiritual life... (break)

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No...

Sir Alistair Hardy: We can't...

Prabhupāda: Your Bible is meant for not the cats and dogs. It is meant for the human beings.

Sir Alistair Hardy: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Our Vedas are not meant for the cats and dogs. All śāstras and scriptures and Vedas, they are meant for human being. So if human being remains on cats and dogs, how he can understand? If he voluntarily remains like the cats and dogs, then how he can understand the Vedas or Bible or Koran? He cannot. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). We have to become pure before understanding what is God. Therefore every civilized society has got a type of religion to become purified so that he can understand God. Without being purified, how it is possible? That is not possible. So at least these things should be accepted as they are in the Bible, "Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not covet." Illicit sex life, intoxication, and killing of animals. These are in the Bible. Why they are not accepted? This is not our impositions. This is already there.

Revatīnandana: And in every scripture...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: ...for purification there are so many processes.

Prabhupāda: So how they can be God conscious without being purified?

Sir Alistair Hardy: Well, I think you're probably getting tired, and I think I probably...

Prabhupāda: You can give some prasādam. Take some prasādam.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: This is going on.

Dr. Inger: When I asked a group of priests at a meeting which was to celebrate the anniversary of a leading Catholic thinker, I.R. Shadder(?), I just asked him about the Sermon on the Mount, referring to similarities between the teachings of Sermon on the Mount and Hindu thought. He says, "You see, but the point is this, that the Sermon on the Mount is not meant for everybody. It is only meant for a very few. And therefore most of us, including the present company," he said, "cannot use it in everyday life." I said, "Do you mean it is only meant for monks?" He hesitated but said, "If you like, yes." But I said, "I imagined that this was meant for everyone and that anyone could follow it." And he said, "Well, it is too dangerous a teaching to give to everyone."

Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence. That is his theory, like Darwin's theory, that life is from matter or chemical. So after hearing the lecture, there is a professor also, a student, yes. He is also Doctor of Chemistry. He is my disciple. He inquired that "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?" At that time he said, "That I cannot say." Just see. He is proposing that "From these chemicals, life has begun," and when he is questioned whether by supplying these chemicals he can produce a life, he said, "That I cannot say." This is going on. Then what is the... Then, if you cannot say, then why you are saying that from these chemicals life has come? So when they are caught up for practical purposes, they'll deny. And they are passing on as philosopher, as scientist, priest, and these things. Just see. (someone comes in) What is that?

Haṁsadūta: This is your visa. It's been extend...

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, wife also involved. Everyone is involved. The child is also involved. You'll find in our class a small child dancing to the tune. Yes. We have opened one school for children in Dallas. All the gṛhastha-bhaktas, those who have got children, we send there. Have you got pictures of Dallas? So there we have got very nice building, and, about, for the present, about near about hundred students. They're simply taught Sanskrit and English.

Professor: Nothing else.

Prabhupāda: Nothing else. Later on, little geometry, geography, mathematics. They're not meant for outside work. They're meant for as soon as they learn Sanskrit and English, they'll read these books.

Professor: I see. But to get the initiation, you have to be how many years old?

Prabhupāda: At least ten years.

Professor: Ten years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ten to twelve years. That is the Vedic system. Twelve years old. He can be initiated.

Professor: Yes, yes. It is the same as the upanayana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Upa means "near," nayanam, "to bring." Upanayana-saṁskāra. And the sacred thread means that he has been accepted by the spiritual master by bringing him near to spiritual consciousness.

Professor: So at the time of initiation, you not only give the Gāyatrī-mantra, but also the sacred thread.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ. Sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya

śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ

āgamāpāyino 'nityās

tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata

(BG 2.14)

If one is engaged in his cultivation of spiritual life, then he should tolerate all these bodily pains and pleasure. Because they come and go. Just like you are medical man, you treat, some patient. Suppose he's attacked with fever. Everyone knows that fever has come; after some time, it will go away. So the one who is cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's not very much disturbed with fever. He knows that it has come, it will go automatically. If we fast for few days. There is a Bengali proverb, jvaranpar ketanadali palab...(?) If you receive one unwanted guest and fever, you don't give him eat. Then it will go away. Unwanted guest, if you do not give him food, he'll go away. Even a fever also, if you don't eat, it will go automatically. So after all, these things come and go. The example is given, śīta-uṣṇa. Śīta means winter and uṣṇa means summer. As the summer comes and go, winter comes and go, so these kinds of sufferings, they come and go. So Kṛṣṇa is advising, tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Therefore a brāhmaṇa's qualification is titikṣa. Śamo damaḥ śaucaṁ titikṣa, toleration. They're not very much bothered with the bodily pains and pleasure. They come and go. They're engaged in real business, how to realize Brahman. So if one is engaged in the prime business of life, Brahman understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā, for him these bodily pains and pleasure becomes minor things. Therefore, we see such examples, that one saintly person is living in the Himalayan mountain. There is snowfall, there is no proper place, still they live. Still, there are many. But nowadays it is not possible. Voluntarily, they used to go to the forest, to the Himalaya, just to tolerate these pains and pleasure of the body equally and engage in their own business of spiritual understanding. That is human civilization. Human civilization, that is described, tapo divyam. For the supreme spiritual realization one should undergo tapasya. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). It is the instruction of Rṣabhadeva that this body... Everyone has got body, cats and dogs and hogs, they have got body. We have also body. The kings and demigods, they have got body. Everyone has got body. But especially the body of... Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. In the human society. This body is not meant for kaṣṭān kāmān, to satisfy sense gratification with very, very hard labor like the hogs and dogs. Then what it is meant for? Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1).

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara's?

Professor: Yes, only Śrīdhara's. Because it's difficult to get the other commentaries.

Prabhupāda: No, they are available.

Professor: Yes, I'm trying, but...

Prabhupāda: (break) No. (On) purpose we have not translated because they are not meant for ordinary reading. They are meant for Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Because there is dealings of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, people will misunderstand.

Professor: Yes, but it's very great poems. It's very beautiful, musical.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor: But...

Prabhupāda: And we, we have translated pralaya-payodhi-jale **. That is Daśāvatāra-stotra of Jayadeva Gosvāmī. We have translated Upadeśāmṛta of Rūpa Gosvāmī which is useful for general public. (break)

Professor: ...Yes. And, I think, he was ill also. He was quite weak.

Paramahaṁsa: When he died, he... Every year he was going to these trips to visit these Buddhist monasteries.

Prabhupāda: He was a little attached to Buddhism?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes, like Śaṅkarācārya, remember, he was...

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kīrtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmīs, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sādhu," "sannyāsī," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvāmīs, they left everything. That is the danger of viṣaya, viṣaya touch. Viṣaya chāḍiyā se rase majiyā. As soon as we give up this śravaṇam, kīrtanam, then it becomes viṣaya. Viṣaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Kṣurasya dhārā, kṣurasya dhārā. Kṣura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately māyā captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure. We have got the tendency to enjoy sense. So senses are strong. As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Choṭa Haridāsa, and rejected by Mahāprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahāprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission. Vivekananda has given preached, Yata mata tata patha, Rajneesh also, a mata. They have got also followers. Everyone can manufacture his own way of religion. So sense enjoyment, there is free field. This material world means sense enjoyment. But spiritual life means no sense enjoyment, tapasya. Tapo divyam. Sense enjoyment is there even in the hogs. Then where is the difference between man and hog? The man means the more he has denied sense enjoyment, he is advanced. Otherwise the spirit of sense enjoyment there is in the hogs. That is the difference. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). These ordinary men, they are working so hard, but what is their aim? The aim is sense enjoyment. So keeping the point, sense enjoyment, in view, there is no difference between hogs and human beings. Because they are also working day and night, hogs. A particular animal has been mentioned in the śāstra. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. This ayaṁ deho nṛloke, in the human society, is not meant for working so hard simply for sense enjoyment because this spirit is visible even in the hogs. Then what it is meant...? Tapaḥ. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13).

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Kṛṣṇa's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā—tāre bali 'kām (CC Adi 4.165).' That is material. Kṛṣṇendriya-prīti-icchā dhare 'prema' nāma. That is spiritual. So that picture, that must be kept in a nice altar, regularly ārati and everything should go on. (pause) (break) mūḍha's position. Vyāsadeva has given Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in the Tenth Canto of Bhāgavata. Nine canto are devoted for understanding Kṛṣṇa, beginning from janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The Supreme, what is Para-brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is beginning. That Kṛṣṇa is personally explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gītā. What Bhāgavata has described, what is Kṛṣṇa simply... Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Here also, this Vīrarāghavācārya says in (indistinct) jijñāsayā. He has given the meaning of jijñāsayā. Yes. Jñāna-buddha-vicāreṇa jijñāsayā (?). Jijñāsayā means vedānta-vākya-vicāreṇa. Vedānta. Jijñāsā. Jijñāsā, inquisitiveness, should be satisfied by the answers given in the Vedānta. Jijñāsayā. So Vedānta begins with this jijñāsā, inquisitiveness. Jijñāsā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This human life is meant for inquiring about the Supreme Brahman. Jijñāsā. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. And Bhāgavata says jijñāsu. And Bhagavad-gītā also says, jñāni jijñāsuḥ ca bharatarṣabha. Catur-vidhā. Find out this. Catur-vidhā bhajante mām, sukṛtino 'rjuna. Those who are pious, they can begin bhajana. Sukṛtinaḥ. So four kinds of men: ārto jijñāsur arthārthī jñānī. Artaḥ means distressed, materially distressed; arthārthī, poor man who needs some money; jñānī and jijñāsu—these four classes of men, if they are pious, they inquire about the Absolute Truth. If they are pious. If one is pious, if he is distressed, he prays to Bhagavān, "Sir, I am in distressed condition. Kindly save me." This is piety. Arthārthī. Jñāni. They are... So jñānī. Human life is developed consciousness, jñānī, so why they should waste their time in inquiring so many unwanted things? They should devote their life simply for inquiring about the Absolute Truth, jijñāsu. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is meant for brahma-jijñāsā. This life is not meant for to live like cats and dogs. They have no jijñāsā. Their only jijñāsā is inquiry. Where is food? Where is sex? Where is nice apartment?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is required.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...that they are suffering.

Prabhupāda: Not to speak like mad man. That you are scientists, you are, "We shall solve all the questions." This nonsense thing should stop. They should come to God and understand what God says. Then their life is successful. God Himself is speaking in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just try to understand. This is not meant for the dogs and cats; this is meant for persons like Arjuna. Because Bhagavad-gītā was taught to Arjuna—for enlightened, ah, topmost class of men. They'll understand. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ. Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). So be yourself amongst the topmost intelligent class of men and try to understand Bhagavad-gītā. Then you'll be happy.

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, we should go this way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But if you want to remain unhappy by your whims, then what... God cannot help you. But you have got the intelli..., independence.

Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, if some people say, "Well, I have no free will," that means that they are actually lazy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got free will, but must utilize it properly. That is free will. Free will means to utilize it properly. That is free will.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So people... Sometimes Kṛṣṇa interferes in the free will?

Prabhupāda: Ah?

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Yaśomatīnandana: Not everybody can be that potent. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...just like the sunshine is open to everyone, but if you do not take advantage of it, that is your fault. Sunshine is not meant for, specifically for any person. It is open to everyone. But if you purposefully close your door, and do not see the sunshine, that is your fault.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda, but there's only one earthly planet, and you have conquered it already.

Umāpati: Is not a true Vaiṣṇava also a sannyāsī? Would you explain the difference between them?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: Is not a, one who is truly a Vaiṣṇava, is he not also a sannyāsī by his...?

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī, sannyāsī is in the material platform, and Vaiṣṇava is in the spiritual platform.

Umāpati: So then the Vaiṣṇava is superior to a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's not sannyāsī. He's above sannyāsī.

Umāpati: Oh. But a Vaiṣṇava would always offer his respects to a sannyāsī. Is that not true?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa was offering respect to His elderly persons. That is etiquette.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: He says that "I show it only to my devotees." He says that "You have to be my devotee to see my power."

Devotee: So we are Kṛṣṇa's devotee, so if he is Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: But when Kṛṣṇa lifted the mountain, it was not meant for the devotees, it was meant for everyone.

Yaśomatīnandana: But because he is rascal, that's what he says.

Prabhupāda: "So you, why you are simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, your devotee. You show us. We don't believe you that you are Kṛṣṇa, but if you want us to come to you, you show this. We shall come immediately. Why make it confidential? Make it public. Then we come immediately. This is our condition. But because you do not show it, therefore we know you are a rascal number one. Why shall I come to you?"

Yaśomatīnandana: "If you claim that you are God, then anybody can claim that he is God."

Prabhupāda: "Yes, anybody can claim. But we think you are a rascal. Therefore we do not come. Now, if you can show us something like Kṛṣṇa, then we shall immediately come. Our difficulty will be solved. We shall see Kṛṣṇa. But we know that you are a rascal." You go there. Go there, somebody, and tell like that.

Prajāpati: No. There is one rascal, Prabhupāda, who can do tricks. His name is Sai Baba. He can make jewels appear, give people photographs of himself, give them to people like tricks.

Prabhupāda: But another rascal will be victim of that tricks. Why shall I accept him as God?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Nara-nārāyaṇa: I think they called it Halley's comet. Halley's comet.

Prabhupāda: Now the... You can expect at any moment disaster in this material world, but the comet is the sign that there will be some great disaster. It is... This material world, in every step there is disaster. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). But those who have taken shelter of Kṛṣṇa, the disaster is not meant for them. Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavam. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. So how big it is?

Gurukṛpā: Very big.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurukṛpā: It was very spectacular. Something like twenty miles.

Prabhupāda: Twenty miles?

Yaśodānandana: Maybe at least fifty, sixty miles the four, five first flashes, very big. Let's see. From this tree all the way to the end of this tennis court, all over the sky. Big white flashings. Like big huge incredible lightning. Then afterwards it decreased, and then regularly, every thirty, forty-five seconds, there was big lightning. Not lightning, big flashes. Very uncommon.

Jayatīrtha: The scientists say that it's eighty-three million miles long...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: The scientists, they say that it's 83 million miles long, the comet.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: With machine help, they're mixing stone in the rice.

Prabhupāda: That's it. That's it, that you cannot get. Oh, you have done so much. But India is not meant for machine. These rascals, they do not know. India is, India's culture is plain living, high thinking. You require some food. Produce food, and take it, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. But they'll not accept, "Oh, this is primitive. Nowadays we have got... We must have the motor car, motor tire."

Devotee: Farmer sees that a job of three hundred rupees and runs away to city. He will not work in the field. Then there will be no food.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they require. They require. The cow is being killed, and that's all. That is sufficient food for them." And let the farmers work for me, for bolts and nuts and motor tire. We make huge profit." You see. You are making profit, but other...

Devotee: What is the use of that profit, Prabhupāda Mahārāja, when don't get even for eating, no clothing, no eating? Only profit... What profit will be beneficial?

Prabhupāda: No, but they don't care for others. But they're having wine and women with their black market money. That's all. They're satisfied. They do not know... (end)

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right. My point is that something is meant for the śūdras.

Dr. Patel: No that's right, but he has not condemned the yajña, he has made the injunction that you must not take part...

Prabhupāda: That's right... Just like in a drug shop, there are... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are many kinds of drugs. So something is not meant for a certain patient. But he cannot say, "I don't like this drug."

Dr. Patel: Right. (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: That is also drug...

Dr. Patel: Right.

Prabhupāda: For certain persons, for a certain patient.

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: But maybe it was being done by somebody.

Indian man (3): They must be... In those days... Those were the departurous(?) days when he was born.

Prabhupāda: This thing is being done, I know, in a big temple in Mathurā. When there is big crowd, they put off the electric, and the rascal goes within the woman. I know that. In Vārāṇasī also, in Viśvanātha Temple. They do like this.

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Indian man (4): I know, I have seen. That is why this injunction... So now you are satisfied that these injunctions are right.

Prabhupāda: No, you... My point was that because something is not meant for me, and it is in the law...

Dr. Patel: We don't want to proscribe it, we want to... That is what he meant. My followers, Vaiṣṇavas, will not partake into such things. Let others do what they do.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it.

Dr. Patel: But then you became fiery.

Prabhupāda: No, we can preach... No, my point was that because it is not applicable to me, I shall condemn.

Dr. Patel: That you don't eat, that's not condemning. Let them go and do their own... (break).

Prabhupāda: In the lower status, so they require.

Dr. Patel: So, but you are also as weak as I am, both of us, so we... Ācchā. (laughs)

Indian man (3): They are wrong, but you are... We are reading what he has written.

Prabhupāda: "Swami Narayan is better than Kṛṣṇa."

Indian man (4): No, no, that is wrong. That is... You, tomorrow you will say, "He was fool" Suppose these boys tomorrow say...

Indian man (3): I'm representing also, he also represents, we both have... We are Vaiṣṇavas bhaktas.

Prabhupāda: He accepted that...(laughs)

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is always there. It is always there. That is material world. Material world means that, sex life. That's all. And if you increase it, then you increase your material life more and more. Therefore the process is tapasā brahmacaryena (SB 6.1.13). The brahmācārya is so much stressed. Tapasā brahmacaryena. Samena damena vā, tyāgena śaucena yamena niyamena vā. This is the process of human life. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kāṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human body is not meant for working hard like pigs for sense gratification. So they have been taught to become pigs. No discrimination of sex. The pig has no discrimination. So they have been taught. Not... When it is in śāstra, that means it is from the very beginning. A class of men are like pigs and hogs there are, always. So therefore Rsabhādeva is forbidding his sons that "This human form of life is not to waste like the pigs and hogs." Then what? Tapasā. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ...

Dr. Patel: Ṛṣabhadeva's hundred sons.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ (SB 5.5.1).

Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...

Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa. You cannot do anything. The hospitals are increasing, beds are increasing, and the diseases are increasing. Then what can you do?

Guest (1): We can do our own satisfaction.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...done not meant for Kṛṣṇa, that is for his own satisfaction. Just like Arjuna wanted to become nonviolent: "No, no, Kṛṣṇa. I cannot kill my kinsmen." That is a good proposal. But that was his satisfaction.

Guest (1): That is very correct.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was his satisfaction. But Kṛṣṇa wanted that "You must fight." And when he agreed to that, that is his perfection. Before that, he was trying to satisfy he.

Guest (1): Yes. When he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, that was his...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only purpose of life. Anything that is done, that is useless waste of time. Therefore Kṛṣṇa particularly said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vra... (BG 18.66). That is ekam. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa only. That will give you perfection. Otherwise your own satisfaction, that's all.

Guest (1): Yes, very correct, very correct.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you do, that is your satisfaction. That is karma.

Guest (1): But not yogi.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: In the śāstras we see that Ṛṣabhadeva, the father of Mahārāja Bharata, under whose name this planet is called Bhārata-varṣa, He taught His one hundred sons, "My dear boys, this human form of life is not meant for working hard like cats and dogs for sense gratification." Ultimate end is sense gratification, satisfying the senses. This is the business of the cats and hogs, or dogs and hogs. The hog is whole day working to find out stool: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he gets some stool, little strength, immediately sex life, without any discrimination whether she is mother or sister or daughter. This kind of life is described in the śāstras as hog civilization. So at the present moment, without any reference to God consciousness, people are being taught to satisfy the senses, work very hard, and ruin the chance of human life.

This human life is especially meant for solving all the problems of live. There are so many problems of life, but the four problems, as indicated in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam... (BG 13.9). People have no knowledge how to stop birth, death, old age and disease. Because every living entity is eternal. That we learn from Bhagavad-gītā. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The living entity does not die even after the annihilation of this gross body. This is the first knowledge to understand. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to transmigrate from this body to another body. As I have transmigrated already from my childhood body to boyhood body, boyhood body to youth-hood body, now I am in a body very old, so similarly, as I am existing in spite of changing so many types of body, similarly, after changing this body, I will have to accept another body. This is the fact. But the modern education, they do not know it, neither they believe, even the practical example is there. And who is giving the example? The most authoritative Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And there are so many different varieties of bodies.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vit. Vit means stool. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel, and khara means ass. So these gṛhamedhīs they have been described as the śva, viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, khara. Bhāgavata is very strong (laughs) in criticizing. Therefore in the beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All types of cheating religion is rejected." Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra. Kaitava means cheating. Śrīdhara Swāmī, he has... Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ: "This Bhāgavata is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ, those who are above this material existence, paramahaṁsas." Bhāgavata is not meant for ordinary men.

Dr. Patel: Who can make a distinction between milk and water.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no, means he accepts only the milk, not the water. Similarly, this whole world is mixture of spirit and matter, so he rejects matter; he takes only spirit. That is paramahaṁsa. Go on.

Girirāja: "Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura points out that according to Bhagavad-gītā, the Brahmā day and the Brahmā night are periods of solar years expanding 4,300,000 multiplied by one thousand..." (break)

Prabhupāda: Four, I think. This one?

Satsvarūpa: Yes, 747. Jumbo.

Prabhupāda: It is 447, yes. (break)

Bhāgavata: ...celebrate.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Bhāgavata: So then it is looked on as a necessity in the society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prostitute is necessity. Otherwise these rascals, they will pollute all the woman. Therefore, for the rascals there must be some provision. Just like opening wine shop. It is not meant for everyone. But there are drunkards. Unless they get drinking, they will create some disturbance.

Bhāgavata: So just like in Dvārakā there was prostitutes, and they were all devotees of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many devotees, prostitutes.

Bhāgavata: So that was their service, not their service, but that was their work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: But, still they were devotees of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their profession, livelihood, but they are devotees. In Calcutta, there is a big temple. It is called Kāca-Kāminī's temple. Kāca-Kāminī means she was a prostitute, but she was kept by a very big businessman who was dealing in glass, mirrors and all... So he has made a temple for her with glass and mirrors. Therefore it is called kāca. Kāca means glass. Kāca-Kāminī. (break) ...have a dispensary. Dr. Ojha. He thinks in this way people can be saved. That is also necessary, but not as necessary as this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- May 20, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No pay, neither... He smokes.

Gurudāsa: Suppose he will join us and shave head and give up bidis, then he can...

Prabhupāda: That will take six life. (laughter) Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). It is not so easy. It is not so easy. To give up all these things, it is only by Kṛṣṇa's grace. But they are not meant for that. But for money's sake, business sake, they can take any shape. That is another thing. At least they will not be able to give up bidis. That is not possible. They may be gosvāmī for everything, not for bidi. (speaks Hindi with Indian man briefly)

Indian man: So Prabhupāda, I have an engagement at 4:30. I came only to see you because Nirvasi told me that you were leaving.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (Hindi)

Gurudāsa: So is there any instructions about this gosvāmī business that you have?

Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī business? What gosvāmī business?

Gurudāsa: These gosvāmīs of Vṛndāvana, that are agitated.

Prabhupāda: No, I have not received any letter from them. Unless we receive a letter, how we can say anything?

Indian man: I have told Purushottam(?) Gosvāmī...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Yes, thank you.

Prabhupāda: Gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. In the Vedic civilization even an enemy comes to your home, he should be offered respect. Take more. Now, these foodstuffs are meant for human being. They are not meant for cats and dogs. You should produce more of this foodstuff. And the remaining balance, the skin, you can offer to the animal. They will eat. You take the substance, and the outward, external skin you offer to the animals, and he will eat. She gives you milk. This is cooperation. You produce... Man can produce fruits and flowers, grains, take the substance, and the rejected portion give to the animal. She gives you milk. You require milk. This is cooperation.

Richard Webster: Well, I do myself because we have a small garden and we grow vegetables, (break)

Prabhupāda: ...will the state allow you to kill somebody and remain peacefully at home?

Richard Webster: Is it wrong to kill, to eat fish?

Prabhupāda: You cannot eat anything, even grass, without the sanction of God, what to speak of fish and others. You cannot eat even a piece of grass. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñca jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. You can simply enjoy after being sanctioned by God. Otherwise not. This is real philosophy. Everything belongs... Just like in this room, it is supposed that everything belongs to me. Even my students, they ask, "May I take this?" They have got right to take, but still, they ask. Similarly, you cannot touch anything—everything belongs to God—without His sanction. This is God consciousness.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: That's it. But there is higher mathematics. Not one plus two or two plus three, no. There is still higher mathematics. So that is not meant for them. That will be explained, explained in the Bhagavad..., ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Those who are expert, or sufficient, insufficient knowledge, they cannot understand the Supreme Absolute. That is also confirmed, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "After many, many births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he can understand Kṛṣṇa and surrenders unto Him." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). So Vedas and scriptures are there, differently, according to different conditions. Now, what Jesus Christ was teaching the people? You can understand. The first injunction is "Thou shalt not kill." So what class of men they were, just you can understand. Otherwise, why he is first of all telling "Thou shalt not kill"? The Mohammed also said, "From this day, there is no sex with your mother." So just see what class of men. So according to class of men, there should be teaching. Similarly, Buddha also, Lord Buddha said, "No, no, there is no God. Just try to understand me. You obey Me." "Yes, sir." It has to be done like that.

Prof. Regamay: Still, there are two questions I have which remain. One is quite a small question. I have read in your commentary to the chastisement of Droṇa, killing of Droṇa, and where it was that violence for a right cause is better than the so-called nonviolence. Now I wanted to ask, for instance, to find that nonviolence or like Gandhi, it was wrong...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was not a man of spiritual under... He was a politician, that's all.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: What is his experience of religion? (French)

Jyotirmayī: So he said that in Hinduism, what he thinks is the best...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion is not meant for Hindus or Christians—for everyone. So there must be a general definition of religion. (French)

Jyotirmayī: So he said that his idea is that advaita-vedānta philosophy is the best in the world?

Prabhupāda: What is that advaita? What is that advaita? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that advaita-vedānta...

Prabhupāda: What is that advaita-veda philosophy? Let him define. (French)

Jyotirmayī: Advaita. A means without. Dvaita...

Prabhupāda: "Without"?

Yogeśvara: "Not." Dvaita means dual. So non-dual.

Jyotirmayī: Non-dual. "There is not two." This is advaita.

Prabhupāda: So what is that one? (French)

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Now, one thing is that we accept Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa on reference from Vedas, but Buddha denied the value of the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish. Therefore we must maintain slaughterhouse." Just see how rascal they are. Supposing Christ ate somewhere fish. Therefore they would maintain regularly slaughterhouse of cows. This is their brain.

Yogeśvara: When you were here last year, there was a meeting at the Indian Tourist Bureau, a press meeting, and there was a man who came to meet you at that time who is president of the court of Paris. And he was supposed to be a Buddhist. Do you remember this gentleman? He said to you that "Meat-eating... We must eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascals, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they don't want to be saved, if they want to go to hell, who can check? Ātma-han. Ātma-han means "self-suicide." Suicide, yes. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So they are all these like, all, all these Buddhists, Christian. We may not speak very strongly. They will be our enemies.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And God or God's representative, whatever they say, that is not meant for a limited area.

Reverend Powell: Right.

Prabhupāda: That is not. Either you take Christian principle or Hindu principle, what is real principle, really principle, that is applicable everywhere.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like Christ said that "Thou should be, one should be meek and humble to go to, back to home, back to..." Eh? It is not?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So this is for everyone.

Reverend Powell: Yeah. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not limited within the Christian community. Everyone.

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: No. I've seen Pālikā do it with a cloth and then mix it with a little milk. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...human being. It is not meant for the beast. God has given different food for different person, different. You will find even food grains, rice-first quality rice, second quality rice. Why nature has produced? Because there are persons who cannot eat third quality rice. So God has given: "Oh, here is first-class quality." They will eat little. And in India there are classes, they will eat so much. So for them that red rice is good. They do not like this fine basmati. I have got practical experience. Sometime we used to give even the servants the same rice. So this man came. He complained, "Bahu." "Bahu" means master. "This rice is not suitable for us." That fine basmati rice. He did not like it. Then the next day that red, big, big. Have seen that? Japanese rice or some, Burmese rice. It is reddish and big and little hard, and he likes: "Very nice." So there are classes of men, classes of animals. I have got practical experience of all this. The big animals... (break) ...living entities. That He is providing everyone. Nobody is hungry. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.

Devotee: So therefore it must be impossible to have a classless society such as the Communists are trying for.

Prabhupāda: No, classless society is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Eat Kṛṣṇa-prasādam." Everyone will like. That is classless: "Everyone chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, everyone eat Kṛṣṇa-prasādam." Life is successful. Classless society on the spiritual platform, not on the material platform. That is not possible. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). At that stage, samatā, equality, when one is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), spiritualized... Otherwise not possible. So Dipaka is not here? No, he has gone.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): "Without envy"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that Kṛṣṇa's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulation on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does... Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no question of vidhi-niṣedhā. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when we open up these new airports, because the authorities, they are not familiar with us, they become very demoniac towards us. And some of them actually, they're thinking about Kṛṣṇa all day...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Devotee (3): Sometimes we feel like... I know myself personally, if I'm distributing, like, Second Volumes of Caitanya-caritāmṛtas I have this doubt, this feeling that it's sometimes hard for me to understand Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and I feel like the karmī, he will open the book, and he will look into it, and he will become offended because he won't be able to understand hardly a word of it.

Prabhupāda: No, Caitanya-caritāmṛta is not meant for ordinary person. Bhagavad-gītā, Īśopaniṣad and other thing...

Tripurāri: Kṛṣṇa book?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. They will read as story book. The Kṛṣṇa trilogy is selling very nice?

Tripurāri: Yes. Nectar of Devotion also.

Prabhupāda: Nectar of Devotion is very nice.

Devotee (1): And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatams. They are very attracted to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Tripurāri: Many of the karmīs appreciate the Fourth Canto, part four, the story of King Purañjana. They understand that.

Devotee (2): There's many psychologists at the airport. I would attract them by giving them that particular volume and saying how this deals with the psychology of the conditioned self. And they were attracted in that way.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice, Purañjana. His city, his gates, various manifestation.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: That is civilization. Just like in the prisonhouse you have to work. Eh? So they think this working is civilization. This is avidya. So therefore they have created more work. From early morning, five o'clock, till ten o'clock, simply working. They do not know that "This working is our punishment." But because ignorant, they think that "Working is life." This is called ignorance. He does not know, "This working is my punishment. How to get out of this work?" No. To increase the work more, complicate, that is civilization. This is called avidyā. Avidyā-karma-samjñānya. Our tendency is not to work but get things. Therefore he has asked that question. Because he has to get cloth by working, therefore he asking, "Why God has not created?" That means tendency is not to work. That is spiritual tendency. Everything, necessities, automatically available. That is our... Therefore as soon as one man becomes rich, he does not work. He gets his thing by working others. The tendency is there, to retire from work. They go to a solitary place. They retire. They do not go out. Weekly, at least, they want to stop worker, working. So why this tendency? He does not want to die. He does not want to work. This is spiritual. Why man should work like... Therefore real civilization is that minimize work. Minimize work, save time, and go back to your spiritual life. That is civilization. And this is not civilization, to get the necessities of life, sense gratification, and work like hog and dog. That is condemned. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard for sense gratification which are done by the dogs and hogs. Human life is meant: tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Human life is for tapasya. Why tapasya? Yena sattvaṁ śuddhyed: their existence will be purified. Then you will get unlimited pleasure. Yato brahma-saukhyam anantam. We are seeking after unlimited pleasure.

Morning Walk -- March 4, 1975, Dallas:

Prabhupāda: And we are thinking, "By working very hard, like hogs and dogs, we will get happiness." This is... The dogs and hogs, they work day and night for searching out where is stool, and as soon as he gets stool, he becomes very strong and stout. Then sex. Never mind, the mother, sister, daughter. This is hog life. Therefore this particular animal has been... Kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Viḍ-bhujāṁ means this hog, stool-eater. So this human life is not meant for imitating the stool-eater hogs. This is in the Bhāgavata. But they have imitated this, "We shall work. Work like hard work, hoglike, and there is no discrimination of food. All sorts of nonsense we shall eat, and in this way we shall get strong and have sex life. Never mind whether he is mother, sister, or daughter. It doesn't matter." This is the modern civilization. And that is warned in the Bhāgavata, "No, this is not life." But this has become actually the life, modern civilized life. Therefore it is called avidya, not education, contra-education. (break) ...says, make life very comfortable. Just produce little food grains, and there are fruits. Even if you don't produce food grain, you can live on fruits and milk. No. The milk source? Cut down their throat, cows, and eat the meat. There is no need of food grain or fruit. This is civilization. And thus becoming duṣkṛtina, all the brain is being utilized for sinful life. Duṣkṛtina means intelligence applied for sinful life. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious. But their merit has been applied for acting sinfully. Therefore they are called duṣkṛtina. (break) "...by the orders of Christ we shall commit all kinds of sin, and Christ has taken contract. He will take our sin." That's all. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do they not say like that?

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not meant for the Hindus, but Kṛṣṇa appeared in Hindustan. Therefore it is the duty of all Hindus to know Kṛṣṇa first. And they also conscious. Every Hindu knows Kṛṣṇa. Every Hindu observes the Janmāṣṭamī, Kṛṣṇa's birthday. But they are not very serious to understand Kṛṣṇa as a follower. Just like Christian. They admit they are Christian but don't follow the Christian principles. So that Hindus are also like that. Nobody is following Kṛṣṇa's instruction. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am God." Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "There is no more superior person or superior position than Me," Kṛṣṇa says. And "God" means that. In the dictionary "God" means the Supreme Being. Supreme Being means nobody is greater than Him; nobody is equal to Him. That is called supreme. So here God personally says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). But this rascal will not accept. They will say, "No, here is another dini-kṛṣṇa." They will bring one competitor. That is going on. "God" means there cannot be any competitor. Nobody is equal to Him; nobody is greater than Him. But they will bring so many competitors. "Why Kṛṣṇa alone will be God?" This is the position of the modern Hindus. They have lost their own culture, and they wanted to imitate Western culture. That they could not do, neither they could maintain their own culture. Therefore in the wilderness, very precarious condition.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: It is my request that you are so many respectable Indian gentlemen here, and we are preaching Kṛṣṇa's message. You come forward. You learn more and join this mission. It is not meant for Mr. Attar; it is meant for everyone, especially for the Indians. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that also, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Bhārata-bhūmite means in the land of Bhāratavarṣa. Bhārata-bhūmi is considered puṇya-bhūmi. So you are fortunate that you have taken birth as human being in India. It is the result of much pious activities. Indians are naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. Now this gentleman, Mr. George, what is his name, full name?

Devotee (2): John(?) (Jordon?)

Prabhupāda: Oh. The Canadian ambassador. He came to see me. He saw me in Delhi when our function was going on. He was speaking; he was so surprised. So this movement has got good potency, and every one of you join.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: A simple formula. Anyone can think of Kṛṣṇa always. Anyone can offer obeisances. Bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Anyone can serve Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. So four principle: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru. Even a child can do that. And by doing these four things he becomes perfect. And the other verse,

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

(BG 9.32)

It is open for everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Even born in low-grade family, it doesn't matter. If he accepts these four principles, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatiḥ, they also become transferred to the supreme goal. And Kṛṣṇa is not meant for any particular type of men or nation or country. No. Kṛṣṇa says... Find out this verse, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ...

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The sign "No dogs allowed" is not meant for dog.

Madhudviṣa: Someone would say that that example just means that the hog doesn't speak your language.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Madhudviṣa: The hog doesn't speak your language, it doesn't mean that he doesn't discriminate...

Prabhupāda: Therefore language, civilized language, is not meant for the dogs and hogs.

Madhudviṣa: No, it's just different language.

Prabhupāda: No different, not different language. I mean to say that rules and regulations, books, they are not meant for hogs and dogs. Even their own language, it is said, they'll not understand.

Pañcadraviḍa: So you say that two kinds of people enjoy life, the paramahaṁsas and the great fools. So what's wrong with being a great fool? They're also enjoying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You become. That's nice. If you want to remain a great fool, there is no checking you. You can go on.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, then what, what is the check on fools? What is the check on fools?

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa never says that, that "You send your children to the universities and make them fools and rascals." So one who is depending on job, he's a śūdra. That is not education. Education is not meant for the śūdra but for the dvijas, twice-born, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, and vaiśya. Śūdras are never for education. So their education, so-called education, means creating so many śūdras. Unless he gets a job his education is useless. Therefore he's a śūdra. And brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya—they will create their own means of livelihood. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. Therefore they are unhappy. They don't get job, neither they are able to work independently.

Nalinī-kānta: Punishment is not the best means of reformation. Sometimes if someone is sent to jail by the government, he'll simply be thinking, "Oh, when I can get out and depose these rascals?" So if someone is punished by God, he might become more angry towards God.

Prabhupāda: But that does not mean God will stop punishing. Just like these animals. The stick is there. He may be angry, but stick is required. Otherwise you cannot work with him. "Hut!" You see? The stick is there in his hand. Otherwise he cannot get work. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Nalinī-kānta: So eventually they will have to surrender.

Prabhupāda: Without surrendering there is no other alternative, willingly or unwillingly. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, milk of the rat?

Guest: If the scientist can extract it, then well and good. Because a very such small mouse.

Prabhupāda: But they must have milk. Every lady animal has got milk.

Guest: No, but what I think a rat is responsible for, what do you call, spreading cholera. So rat must be supplying the medicine for cholera also. Whenever cholera is there, rats are there.

Prabhupāda: But Ganeṣaji is not meant for cholera. Ganeṣaji is meant for success.

Guest: Success.

Prabhupāda: So that means those who want success, they should eat the milk of rat. (chuckles)

Guest: Yamarāja is going on buffalo. So buffalo milk also we are not recommending.

Prabhupāda: Buffalo milk?

Guest: We are not recommending. In the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we are not recommending buffalo.

Prabhupāda: No. Anyone who wants to go very soon to Yamarāja, he can drink buffalo milk. Or it may be that if you drink buffalo milk, the Yamarāja will not touch you. (laughter) The other side may be taken. (break) ...in the morning take water from the river, evacuate, then wash their hands and take nice bath. And one jug water brings at home. Then everything, water problem, is solved.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Drugs are meant for medicinal purposes, not for drinking or taking generally. Every herb, every vegetable, is a drug meant for curing a particular disease. This is nature's gift. Just like if you cut your finger, you take little grass and take a little juice and apply it. It will act as tincturizing, immediately. They are meant for this purpose. These vegetable, drugs, are meant for when you are sick or disturbed, you can utilize. Not for intoxication. Just like opium. If you have severe type of dysentery, diarrhea, a little opium it will immediately cure. But opium is not meant for using as an intoxication. There is use of opium. Morphia, opium, they have got use at a certain time, not for using it for intoxication. That is foolish.

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can drugs sometimes be used to help us for spiritual realization?

Prabhupāda: No. That is nonsense. Spiritual realization means knowledge. Not to become intoxicated. The spiritual... Just like this is spiritual knowledge. So what the intoxicated person will understand? Even a sane man cannot understand. Then how he will understand in intoxication? It is foolishness. They are suffering material pangs. By taking drugs the suffering is forgotten, and he is thinking that is the solution. Spiritual means negation of material distress. So he is always suffering from material distress. By taking drug, temporarily he forgets it. Therefore he misunderstands "This is spiritual." That's not spiritual. Then committing suicide is also spiritual? One man is suffering, and the suffering is so great he cannot tolerate, therefore he sometimes commits suicide. Is that committing suicide spiritual? Spiritual means negation of material distresses, that's a fact. But that is a different thing. When you come to the spiritual platform, not by artificially forgetting your material suffering. That is not spiritual.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: All of the temples they are receiving letters regularly from (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It is not meant for mass people. Only selected fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "If I could make one person to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then my mission would be successful." It is not for mass person. Only the fortunate they can do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by introducing saṅkīrtana, even the mass can take part. When there is saṅkīrtana, everyone joins. And by joining in that way, they will become purified.

Amogha: In Sydney, the city council once tried to stop us, legally, from chanting in the streets. First they arrested us two years ago, but then they spent many dollars of tax money to prepare a case for the court, and they didn't even tell us. They had the court session, and the judge ruled that "This Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting in the streets is good. It adds color to the city and is not illegal. Why you are saying this is illegal? This is their right. And it makes the city more colorful."

Prabhupāda: Nice judge. God gave him sense.

Amogha: So actually many people like to see the chanting now. When we go downtown with a big party on Friday and Saturday nights, when they have late-night shopping and movies, many people clap, and they dance a little bit. Sometimes mocking, but also one can see they're affected. And usually if we stop in front of a cinema and chant there, fifty or more people they just stop and they stare, and they can't think of anything else. They just watch and watch and watch. They seem to be fascinated by the sound of Kṛṣṇa's name.

Prabhupāda: There is a natural tendency to hear. Artificially they stopped. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Appeals to the heart immediately. Unless he is too much sinful it will appeal immediately.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: But that is not... If you study, you study as it is.

Amogha: They can't read Sanskrit.

Paramahaṁsa: They don't know. They think "We have to accept from these different swamis. They are the authorities."

Prabhupāda: Why you should? If you do not know Sanskrit, why don't you learn Sanskrit, one who knows Sanskrit? What is this nonsense? I say, "Give me a glass of water," and you do not know Sanskrit, you say, "No, it is not meant for him; it is meant for me." What is this?

Paramahaṁsa: But the professors aren't doing this. They want to read the Bhagavad-gītā, so they're accepting these Māyāvādī philosophers' interpretations. We're speaking of the professors, not of the ones writing Bhagavad-gītā interpretations.

Prabhupāda: So why Māyāvāda... Interpretation is required when you cannot understand, but when the things are understood very clearly... Just like we had been in Kurukṣetra. That place is there for millions and millions of years. And why one should interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this body"? Why should we accept this meaning? Kurukṣetra is already there. Everyone is going. And if somebody interprets, "No, Kurukṣetra means this body," so why I shall be so foolish to accept this interpretation?

Paramahaṁsa: Well, people say that they're not sure whether it's a symbolic meaning or an actual meaning.

Prabhupāda: That is your conjecture. But when you read book you should understand the wording of the book. You cannot conjecture in such...

Paramahaṁsa: Because they say some of the Vedic literatures...

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: Take sex, how can that be considered...?

Prabhupāda: Or Christian religion also there is celibacy, life, you also trained up, the nuns, the priests, they are not meant for marrying.

Jesuit: That's true. We don't say that sex is bad.

Prabhupāda: Why they are forbidden to marry?

Jesuit: Well, it's a question of something I freely accept, freely accept not to marry.

Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.

Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...

Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.

Jesuit: But everything that God makes...

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Where is a sitting place? (break) ...introduce that "Why you are, rascal, you are introducing all this nonsense?" Let them read this. They will become human being. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. They are reading only all rubbish things and becoming rubbish. Let them read these books, and their human life will be perfect. Na yad vacaś citra-padaṁ harer yaśaḥ: (SB 1.5.10) "The literature which does not give information of the glories of the Lord," tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham, "it is just like the pleasure place of the crows." So these books are meant for the crows, without any right information, without any God's information. Tad vāyasaṁ tīrtham uśanti mānasāḥ. The swans will not come there. The pleasure place of the crows is not meant for the swans. They have got different place. Our books are meant for swans, and all these literatures are meant for the crows.

Guru kṛpā: The trouble is is that even if we explain these things to most people, factually their only interest is how they can eat, and how they can gratify their senses, and they take these other scientists up as the extracurricular...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is said, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). "Those who have lost their identity, being captivated by bhoga and aiśvarya, they cannot understand." Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahataḥ. For slight, so-called happiness they are making big, big problems (projects?). Māyā... bharam. Bharam means big, big problems. (projects?). And sometimes they put forward their whim (?) for the next generation. Now, if Darwin's theory accepted, the monkeys never thought of the next generation, so how you have got this consciousness(?)? Why you are thinking of your next generation? What is the argument? The monkey cannot think that Mr. Nixon will come, become president of this or that, U.S.A. So how he became president without your thinking of the, your forefathers, monkeys? So why you are thinking of your generation? Your forefathers did not.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The land is there.

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Land is... Just like this land, Vaiṣṇava is there. This land is not meant for spiritual culture but still the Vaiṣṇavas are there. Similarly, in India, no, there are many Vaiṣṇavas there. The mass of people, they are all Vaiṣṇava.

Paramahaṁsa: So by joining this movement we come to the platform where we can take birth in India in a nice brāhmaṇa family?

Prabhupāda: No, you can go directly also, if you want to finish your business. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). This is a consideration, who, one who fails in executing. But if you become successful, then you go directly where Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there in some universe. So those who are completely liberated, they go to that universe. Just like when Kṛṣṇa comes here, in each and every universe there is a Vṛndāvana. So in that Vṛndāvana one takes birth. Then goes to original Vṛndāvana. (break)

Paramahaṁsa: Those who are not able to maintain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, then they may have to go to India next lifetime.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: We. (break) There was an artificial famine in India and I particularly inquired from all devotees whether they have got any problem in this famine. They said, "No, we haven't got." I have taken the statistics. In 1942 the artificial famine created by government... So there were big earthquake in Bihar. At that time one of my godbrother, he was government auditor. So I inquired. In that earthquake only his house was saved. I have seen it many times. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). That is the only....

samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ

mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ

bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ paraṁ padaṁ

padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām

(SB 10.14.58)

Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadāṁ na teṣām. It is not meant for them, all these dangerous condition. Now the nuclear war means it will not continue very long. The first party who will drop the bomb on the other party, he will be victorious, and immediately the war will stop. They are simply arranging how to drop the atom bomb first. So one who will be able to drop the bomb first, he will be victorious. It doesn't require long time. Just like in Japan, as soon as the Americans dropped the atom bomb in Hiroshima, immediately they surrendered. This will be the result. Now the question is who will be able to drop the bomb first.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are rich man's son, Kṛṣṇa's son. Why shall I work? That is the nature. A rich man's son never works. He enjoys. We are dancing and taking nice prasādam. Why shall I work? What do you think? Poor man will work. Rich man, why they will work? He will enjoy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor of all planets, and we are servants of Kṛṣṇa, a rich man's servant. Why shall I work so hard? The ass will work hard, not a human being. And that is the instruction of Rsabhādeva. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard simply for food and sex enjoyment. That is the business of the hogs. The hogs do like that. They work day and night to find out some stool, and as soon as a little strength, he enjoys sex without discrimination, mother, sister, anybody. Is that life? Tell them, "You are working like hogs, and we are living like human being. That is the difference." If somebody does not work like hog, does it mean he is escaping? (laughter) Just see. And the hog is asking to work like hog. Why human being will accept this proposal? Marshall theory. I was student of economics. He says the human nature is, unless he has got some obligation he will not work. That is the beginning of economics. If one has got sufficient to eat, he will not work. When he is obliged to work for some reason, he works hard. That is the economic theory. So nature is... It is not escaping. If I have got sufficient to eat, why shall I work? What is the answer? This is not escaping, it is comfortable life, not to work and get everything, all necessities. That is comfort. And working hard getting the necessities, that is for the hogs and dogs, not for human being.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So this instruction is strīṣu duṣṭāsu: "When women become polluted, there is unwanted population." That is coming all over the world, the hippies. Therefore the first thing is how to train up women not to become polluted. This is the way of... In the modern society they have given women freedom. That I have already explained. In the name of freedom of woman, they are being exploited. Everything is there: social, religious, political, cultural, educational. We have to accept that course. Then everything will be all right. If you don't accept, then you have to suffer problems. It is not meant for a particular class of men or particular country, it is meant for the whole human society. Therefore, this purification of the society at the present, fallen condition is very, very difficult to revive. Because people are so fallen, it is almost impossible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has recommended that "You all together chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and everything will be done nicely."

harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam

kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva (gatir anyathā)

(CC Adi 17.21)

In Kali-yuga it is very difficult to reform the whole human society to become perfect by this process, Vedic process. It is not possible. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, that "You chant congregationally this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Never mind. Whatever impurities have entered, it will be all cleansed." That you have seen yesterday in the procession. So everyone was chanting in ecstasy Hare Kṛṣṇa. You have seen? Yes. So this is the process which we are trying to introduce, not anything, caste system or this system, no. Then everything will come automatically. Easiest process.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā, last instruction is sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. (BG 18.66) "You give up all kinds of occupation and just surrender unto Me." If one can take it very seriously, understand, then he can enter into the study of Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā. So he advised that "You surrender to Me," and Bhāgavata begins, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1), "I am worshiping the Supreme Truth." And next verse is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." So this is rather revolting. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), "Give up all kinds of religious system, just surrender to Me." And from that point Bhāgavata begins, "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." It is meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Those who are envious, for them is not Bhāgavata. So any materialistic person, he is envious. It is not meant for the materialistic person. Those who are spiritually advanced, one who has understood that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, my direct connection is with God, therefore my only business is to serve God." One who has come to this conclusion, he is called paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. A swan, it has got a quality that if you give the swan to drink milk mixed with water, she will drink the milk and reject the water. She has got the capacity. So paramahaṁsa means one who has taken the essence of the existence, Absolute Truth, he is called paramahaṁsa.

Morning Walk -- October 18, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Formerly the Manchester people were exploiting Indians. Now the Ahmedabad people, they have learned how to exploit. That's all. And government is satisfied because they pay tax. "Never mind. The workers may suffer, go on suffering." This is going on. And they have lost their own culture, and they have been taught how to drink, how to eat meat. This is... (break) ...fact is that Indians cannot work so hard as the Western people can work. The climate does not allow. India's climate is good for peaceful living, less work, and brain engaged in spiritual advancement. That is India's gift. They are not meant for hard work. Hard work is not required for anyone. This is animal civilization, to work very hard. Then what is the difference between animal and man? A man has to work so hard like animal; then what is the difference? Here in the Western countries their climate is also suitable, and they are taught to work very hard like animals. And they do that. Therefore materially they become so-called prosperous for committing suicide. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is true.

Prabhupāda: And materially advanced for committing suicide. Am I right or wrong?

Devotee (1): Right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that if one wants to increase the material standard of living, then they should increase also sex life. And this is what they are doing in India today.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you get it sacrificed before Goddess Kali." But this is not meant for the high-class brāhmaṇa. This is meant for the third-class dvija. But still, he is induced to accept some authority. In this way there are Purāṇas. Somebody is recommended to worship Lord Śiva, somebody is recommended to worship Kali, Durga, Sarasvatī, many demigods. But Nārada Muni chastised his disciple that "You have done wrong. Why you have recommended all these things?" Jugupsitam. That is said there, that "People will take your authority, and they will be engaged in worshiping different demigods." Actually that is not required. Then he compiled Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, only the Supreme Lord worshiped. The same thing as Kṛṣṇa explained, mam ekam. That is success. So Vyāsadeva was very much...

Dr. Patel: But, sir, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja, He has already said in Mahābhārata also, you know?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: He composed Mahābhārata much before he composed Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Mahābhārata... Gītā is part of Mahābhārata.

Dr. Patel: That is what I said. He has already mentioned that, mam ekam śaraṇaṁ vraja.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Saṁsārīs, (indistinct) for the saṁsārīs. When Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14), this is for saṁsārīs. Saintly person doesn't require anna. It is meant for the saṁsārī. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Catur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam: (BG 4.13) This division of society is meant for the saṁsārī, to control division of labor. Everything is for the saṁsārī. It is not meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa-saṁhitā is Bhāgavata. This is ABC. These people, they do not understand even the ABC. This is the difficulty. They cannot learn even the ABCD of spiritual knowledge.

Dr. Patel:

śreyo hi jñānam abhyāsāj

jñānād dhyānam viśiṣyate

dhyānāt karma-phala-tyagās

tyāgāc chāntir anantaram

Whether tyāga is meant for the saṁsārīs?

Prabhupāda: Tyāgāt means one must be disgusted with this material way of life. This is tyāga. But they are being educated to be more attached to this material world.

Dr. Patel: This modern education.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything. Just like the money. Money is not material. You can spend it for constructing a temple for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is not material; it is spiritual. Everything originally..., nothing is material. But when it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Otherwise, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ tena.... tyaktena bhuñjithā (ISO 1). If everything is belonging to Kṛṣṇa, how it can be material. He is spirit, so everything belongs to Him, so how it can be material? Material means when Kṛṣṇa's things are not used for Kṛṣṇa, for oneself, that is material.

Dr. Patel: And that is sin also. Anything which is not...

Prabhupāda: Material anything you do, yajñārthāt karmano'nyatra loko yam. Anything you do, if it is not meant for Kṛṣṇa, then you are criminal, immediately.

Dr. Patel: Sinful activity.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately. To spiritualize everything, Kṛṣṇa says therefore, yat karoṣi yaj juhosi yat tapasyasi dadāsi.... yat kuruṣva mad arpaṇam. Then it is spiritual. Immediately. Karmāny evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana.

Dr. Patel: Tad-arthaṁ kārma kaunteya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is spiritual. Yajñārthāt karma, everything is there. Unless you do it for Kṛṣṇa, everything is material and sinful.

Dr. Patel: That's a fact. If you are doing work tad-arthaṁ karma, then you become mukta, because there is no, I mean, taking with you anything. Mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara.