Anyone could become brāhmaṇa. Just like Jābāla Upaniṣad. Satyakāma Jābāla. This Satyakāma was the son of a prostitute. He was not a brāhmaṇa's son. So he wanted to become brāhmaṇa. So he went to Gautama Muni, "Sir, please initiate me. I want to become a brāhmaṇa." Śūdras were not initiated. In the formerly... Śūdras are common. Therefore Gautama Muni inquired that "What you are? Because I do not initiate who is not born of a brāhmaṇa father." So he said, "I do not know." "So go to your mother. Ask whose son you are." The mother said, "I do not know." So he came and he said that "Sir, my mother does not know whose son I am." So Gautama Muni accepted him as disciple because he was truthful. He saw that he has got the brahminical qualification, truthful. Everyone is not willing that to admit that he is the son of a prostitute. No. But he admitted, "Yes, my mother does not know by whom I was begotten." So this is qualification.
Not initiated
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 7
In other places, the following offenses are listed: (a) to be against the scriptural injunctions of the Vedic literature or to disrespect within one's heart the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam while externally falsely accepting its principles, (b) to introduce differing śāstras, (c) to chew pan and betel before the Deity, (d) to keep flowers for worship on the leaf of a castor oil plant, (e) to worship the Deity in the afternoon, (f) to sit on the altar or to sit on the floor to worship the Deity (without a seat), (g) to touch the Deity with the left hand while bathing the Deity, (h) to worship the Deity with a stale or used flower, (i) to spit while worshiping the Deity, (j) to advertise one's glory while worshiping the Deity, (k) to apply tilaka to one's forehead in a curved way, (l) to enter the temple without having washed one's feet, (m) to offer the Deity food cooked by an uninitiated person, (n) to worship the Deity and offer bhoga to the Deity within the vision of an uninitiated person or non-Vaiṣṇava, (o) to offer worship to the Deity without worshiping Vaikuṇṭha deities like Gaṇeśa, (p) to worship the Deity while perspiring, (q) to refuse flowers offered to the Deity, (r) to take a vow or oath in the holy name of the Lord.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Adi-lila
One should be particularly careful to understand the truth about Kṛṣṇa. If because of laziness one does not come to know Kṛṣṇa conclusively, one will be misguided about the cult of devotion, like those who declare themselves advanced devotees and imitate the transcendental symptoms sometimes observed in liberated souls. Although the use of thoughts and arguments is a most suitable process for inducing an uninitiated person to become a devotee, neophytes in devotional service must always alertly understand Kṛṣṇa through the vision of the revealed scriptures, the bona fide devotees and the spiritual master. Unless one hears about Śrī Kṛṣṇa from such authorities, one cannot make advancement in devotion to Śrī Kṛṣṇa.
At the end of His twenty-fourth year, at the end of the fortnight of the waxing moon, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu left Navadvīpa and crossed the river Ganges at a place known as Nidayāra-ghāṭa. Then He reached Kaṇṭaka-nagara, or Kāṭoyā (Katwa), where He accepted ekadaṇḍa-sannyāsa according to the Śaṅkarite system. Since Keśava Bhāratī belonged to the Śaṅkarite sect, he could not initiate Caitanya Mahāprabhu into the Vaiṣṇava sannyāsa order, whose members carry the tridaṇḍa.
CC Madhya-lila
One point to note in this regard is that the spiritual master of the Buddhists did not initiate his disciples. Rather, his disciples were initiated by Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and they in turn were able to initiate their so-called spiritual master. This is the paramparā system. The so-called spiritual master of the Buddhists was actually in the position of a disciple, and after his disciples were initiated by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they acted as his spiritual masters. This was possible only because the disciples of the Buddhist ācārya received the mercy of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Unless one is favored by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the disciplic succession, one cannot act as a spiritual master.
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Dvija means twice-born: one birth by the father and mother, and next birth by the spiritual father and the Vedic knowledge. This is second birth, initiation. The spiritual father, or spiritual master, he gives the second birth through the mother, Vedas. Therefore they are called dvija, twice-born. Twice-born. Unless one has accepted bona fide spiritual master, he is once born, śūdra. Śūdra has no such thing as twice-born. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas. Because śūdras were less intelligent, they were not initiated. They were not initiated. Only the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, dvija.
Just like so many thousands of Europeans, Americans, they have joined us on account of sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). First of all they come in the temple and hear for some days. Then all of a sudden he becomes shaven-headed. We haven't to request. He takes a bead and bead bag, although he's not initiated. Then, after some days, he approaches, "Please get me initiated." The bhajana-kriyā. This is called bhajana-kriyā. So we initiate. "Yes, now you are interested, we initiate." We give him hari-nāma: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." This is the first initiation. "And chant sixteen rounds and observe these rules and regulations." Then, when I see, six months or one year, he's doing very nicely, then we accept him as my disciple, the second initiation. So this is bhajana-kriyā. Then he's admitted to worship the Deity or cook for the Deity, so many things. Bhajana-kriyā.
Just like the Jābāla Satyakāma. Jābāla Satyakāma, he, he was... He went to Gautama Muni, "Please initiate me." And according to Vedic conclu..., initiation is meant for the brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya and vaiśya. Not for the śūdras. Śūdras are not initiated. And in the Kali-yuga, because everyone is a śūdra, therefore he's first of all given training to become a brāhmaṇa. Then the sacred thread is offered. This is the process. Because actually, initiation cannot be given to anyone except a brāhmaṇa. So kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga, everyone is śūdra." That is to be accepted without any disagreement.
The people, the ignorant, the rascals, they may, if they have little faith, they may come, live here, take whatever prasāda is available, and mix with these devotees. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. And if he mixes with the devotees, gradually his bad habits, anartha... No: bhajana-kriyā. Next stage is that, "The devotees are serving Kṛṣṇa, they are also shaven-head, they have got neckbeads, and they're chanting. Why not myself?" This is called bhajana-kriyā. Then they approach, "Sir, why not initiate me?" "No, we put some regulative principles. If you accept..." This is bhajana-kriyā. Then automatically, anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. All nonsense habits, which are not required, anartha... Just like smoking: anartha, unnecessary. Does it mean that if one does not smoke he'll die? But you'll see in the whole world, millions and trillions of dollars' cigarette is selling. Anartha. Unnecessary.
There is no such thing, "must." You cannot make Kṛṣṇa must. That is not possible. So Kṛṣṇa will see how much you have love for Him. Then He will accept. Otherwise He'll reject. Therefore, it is forbidden, those who are nondevotee, those who are not initiated, those who are not chanting regularly, their offering to Kṛṣṇa will not be accepted. We must be very careful. We must know our position, whether I am sincerely following the principles of devotional service. Then Kṛṣṇa will accept. Yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. The real thing is bhakti. So either you offer Kṛṣṇa prayers or you offer foodstuff, everything must be along with bhakti, devotion, love. Then Kṛṣṇa will accept.
Personally, the Supreme Personality of Godhead is teaching us. And He is ordering in the Bhagavad-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He is mentioning especially vegetables, grains, fruits. But not that everyone can offer Kṛṣṇa all these things. No. He says yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. He does not accept anything from the hands of a nondevotee. Therefore the non-initiated student cannot offer Him. He doesn't accept. He says especially yo me bhaktyā prayacchati. He must be devotee. He is not hungry that He has come to your temple to eat. No. He is giving food to all the living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one Kṛṣṇa is giving all the necessities of life to all the living entities.
The twice-born, he must approach the spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Just like the Sattva Satyakāma, Jabala-Satyakāma Upaniṣad. The boy approached Gautama Muni that "Kindly accept me, your disciple. Initiate me." Formerly, without becoming a brāhmaṇa specially, they were not initiated. So in those days all the families were very pure. Therefore born of a brāhmaṇa father is understood that he has got the training of a brāhmaṇa. That is a facility. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭaḥ sañjāyate (BG 6.41). By pious activities or by practice of bhakti-yoga, if one has not completed, yoga-bhraṣṭa, one who falls down from the yoga practice, such person is given another chance to take birth in a nice family, a brāhmaṇa family or a rich mercantile family.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, are all one's efforts to serve Kṛṣṇa virtually useless...?
Prabhupāda: That I have already explained, that you are coming here. Even though you are not initiated, that is also service. So if you deposit one cent daily, one day it may become a hundred dollars. So when you get the hundred dollars, you can get the business. (laughter) So you come here daily, one cent, one cent... When it will be hundred dollars, you will become a devotee.
Devotees: Jaya! Hari bol!
Festival Lectures
So anyway, from 1922 to 1933 practically I was not initiated, but I got the impression of preaching Caitanya Mahāprabhu's cult. That I was thinking. And that was the initiation by my Guru Mahārāja. Then officially I was initiated in 1933 because in 1923 I left Calcutta. I started my business at Allahabad. So I was always thinking of my Guru Mahārāja, that "I met a very nice sādhu." Although I was doing business, I never forgot him. Then, in 1928, these Gauḍīya Maṭha people came to Allahabad during Kumbhamelā.
So that was in 1922. Then, in 1923, I left Calcutta on business account, and I started my business at Allahabad. But I was always thinking of my Guru Mahārāja, although I was that time not initiated. But the impression was there. I was thinking, "I met a very nice saintly person." So in this way, I passed from 1923 to 1928, I think. Then during Kumbhamelā... (child making noise) Stop that noise he's making. In 1928 my Guru Mahārāja, along with other disciples, came to Allahabad for starting their branch there.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Who is that gentleman?
Hayagrīva: Mr. Rose. You met him once, I recall.
Prabhupāda: Oh. He is not initiated?
Hayagrīva: Oh, no, no. He lives in West Virginia.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. In the beginning.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Param Brahman. We are all Brahmans. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Every one of us, living entity, Brahman. But He is the chief Brahman. Just like you are all Americans, but your president is the chief American. Do you understand? So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the chief Brahman. You are all Brahman, but He is the chief Brahman. Is it clear? That's all right. (Break) ...that "This boy hears very nicely. He does not go away," the first impression he gave to other godbrothers. "So I shall make him disciple." These very words he said. Actually I did not follow him in the beginning. High philosophical speaking and I was a new boy. I could not follow him, but actually I was so much glad to hear him. That's all. So that was my qualification, whatever you may say. I was simply asking, "When Guru Mahārāja will speak? When he will speak? When?" And I will sit down and go on hearing, and I will understand or not understand-others will disperse—I will not disperse. That he marked. Yes. First. There was first one instance. At that time I was not initiated. There was a circumambulation of whole Vṛndāvana. So although I was not initiated, I was one of the important members of the... So I thought, "Let me go. What these people are doing, circumambulating all over Vṛndāvana?" So I went to Mathurā. Then I went to the Vṛndāvana interior, which place was known as Kosi. So in that Koṣi one of my godbrothers declared that "Prabhupāda is going tomorrow back to Mathurā. So he will speak this evening. So anyone who wants to hear him, they can stay. And others may prepare to..." Sit down.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, parikrama. And the parikrama, that is also another incident that... I, I was not initiated at that time, but I had very good admiration for these Gauḍīya Maṭha people, and before, before 1933 I met Śrīdhara Mahārāja and other devotees, old Tīrtha Mahārāja. So they were kind to me. Now, the parikrama, I thought, "What these people are doing in this parikrama? Let me go." So I met them in Kosi. Parvata Mahārāja, you may remember, and all people were going to see some Sesasayi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You can have the beads, but there is a process. Whether you are prepared to... Otherwise, you can chant. There is no restriction. You can take the beads and chant. But if you want to be officially initiated, there are certain rules and regulations, and other things. But without being officially initiated, nobody is barred from chanting. You can chant. Just like Ekalavya, he was speaking. Although he was not initiated by Droṇācārya, he became a good archer, simply by practicing. Similarly you can practice: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is... He's not a devotee. He's not a, he was not a disciple.
Bali Mardana: But in India there are so many people. They're not disciples; they're not initiated by you. So are they in the same category?
Prabhupāda: No, that case was different.
Bali Mardana: So it is all right.
Prabhupāda: Then the spiritual master has to go every time, to fall down? Because people will touch. That is natural. And he has to jump over the water every time?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: At that time I was not initiated. You were seeing my picture, mustaches, at that time I was not initiated. Since I became initiated, I have shaven.
Devotee (1): Well, in India where one can do business...
Prabhupāda: I can... Why you are bringing this question? You ask, "Why you had mustaches?" I say when I had mustaches, at that time, I was not initiated. That answer is given. That's all.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am everything at that time. There were some students, but they were not any active. I was doing everything. That League of Devotees means I am everything. I wanted to organize with this Prabhākāra Miśra and others. But they were not interested to be...
Hari-śauri: Not to become Vaiṣṇavas.
Prabhupāda: No, to devote whole time. They were... Just like Prabhākāra comes still. But if you ask him to do full time work, that he'll not do. Therefore I did not initiate others. He was initiated, Haridāsa. But they were all learned scholars, Sanskrit.
Akṣayānanda: What did he say his initiated name is?
Prabhupāda: He is not initiated.
Caraṇāravindam: The man who is translating is not initiated. His uncle, Kṣīrodakaśāyī dāsa.
Akṣayānanda: How many your program up to?
Caraṇāravindam: How many boys? Of our boys, we were seven.
Prabhupāda: Indian, or?
Haṁsadūta: No, no, no. They were cutting up our vegetables which are going to be cooked and served to the public.
Mahāṁśa: No.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, right over there by the fire.
Prabhupāda: No uninitiated person should cook. Brāhmaṇa cook.
Mahāṁśa: What about professional cooks?
Prabhupāda: Real brāhmaṇa.
Mahāṁśa: Professional cooks?
Prabhupāda: Profes...? They are brāhmaṇas.
Correspondence
1968 Correspondence
Regarding your questions: Yes, leave Krishna's plate for 15-20 minutes or more, not more than half an hour. After offering the plate, the balance in the pots should be distributed immediately. The plate can remain on the altar while the rest is being distributed. Any initiated girl can take part in preparation of prasadam, and even a boy who is not initiated cannot take part.
I shall be very glad to initiate girl friend if you recommend her actual mental condition. We should not initiate anyone who is not willing to follow our regulations. In the meantime let her attend our classes and join the Sankirtana program regularly. I am so pleased to learn that you are by the Grace of Krishna improving day by day in the matter of Krishna Conciousness.
I am so glad to learn that you are now editing TLC with keen interest. Please do it nicely and finish it as soon as possible. Regarding kitchen affairs, as a rule those who are not initiated may not enter into the kitchen affairs, but uninitiated members can work under the guidance of another initiated member when there is great need. So the direction which you are giving to the willing girls to help with the kitchen affairs is not objectionable. You can go on doing that.
Yes, there is definitely a vast difference between initiated and non-initiated. One who is initiated is authorized, and one who is not initiated is not authorized. Just like, for example, Pradyumna is attending class in Sanskrit in a college, he is given chance to learn Sanskrit, but he is not equal with the regular students. One who becomes initiated is channelized to the authorities in the disciplic succession. One who isn't initiated may chant Hare Krishna (and should certainly be encouraged to do so) and serve in his own way, and gradually by doing so he may want to be initiated. But otherwise he may fall away from following the rules and regulations.
1970 Correspondence
Regarding your marriage, I have all sanction for it, but I do not know what is the legal implication. Besides, that, the girl is not initiated. But if she is working very obediently in the Temple, there is no impediment in your being married with her and she may be initiated later on. I am sending herewith back the beads of Labangalatika duly chanted by me.
Regarding Volcer marrying, for the time being they can be married by the civil court without delay. Both the husband and wife may be allowed to associate with you and after a few days, if you recommend for initiation, then you can send their beads and they will be initiated by post. At that time you can perform our regular wedding ceremony as usual. That will be nice. Uninitiated couples cannot be married by us. We shall not take the responsibility of an ordinary marriage maker. Our practice is to help devotees for advancing in Krishna Consciousness. In such activities, when there is necessity, we get them married also.
I am returning back one letter from Hem Chandar Bhargava and Co. I think you sent it by mistake to me. It appears the invoice of pictures which you have imported from India. You should not be unnecessarily embarrassed on the point of Raktaka's marriage with somebody who is not initiated. Yes, I have received the deposit slip of $50, and I am enclosing herewith a separate letter to Gopala Krishna.
In London, however, we get some income by sales of "Hare Krishna Mantra" record and similarly in the U.S.A. we get some income by selling "Govinda" records and other similar records. From London the "Hare Krishna Mantra" record has worldwide sales. This is managed by Mr. George Harrison, the famous English musician, who is my uninitiated devotee. This boy has paid me recently $19,000 for publishing my Krishna book. The whole amount will be required for publishing the book in Japan.
Regarding using our Temple for marriage ceremonies for the Hindu community, if they contribute something to the Temple they can use the Temple and perform the marriage with their own priest, but we cannot take responsibility for marrying others who are not initiated by us.
1971 Correspondence
And now there are so many devotees there in Philadelphia. Please take care of them. Teach them how to remain neat and clean. They should be engaged always in cleansing the temple. Cleansing is urgently required. As far as possible, non-initiated devotees may not enter the kitchen or Deity area. They can help from outside. Just take care of them so that they may become pure devotees. That is your duty. We are respected everywhere on our purity platform. This should be maintained.
I beg to acknowledge receipt of your letter of December 3, 1971, and I am very happy to hear that you have got a new son to raise as a great devotee of Krishna. You may call him Bhakta Vimal Das. So long as a devotee is not initiated he should have Bhakta before his name, if he is a male, Bhaktin if she is a girl.
Regarding children without spiritual names, whatever name is there, if it is a boy, then add Bhakta first. Or if it is a girl, add Bhaktin before the child's name. For example, if somebody is named Robert, his new name may be Bhakta Robert. In general, if he is not initiated, a devotee adds Bhakta or Bhaktin, before the other name until they are initiated later.
1972 Correspondence
The servant must know what is God, what does He do, how He is satisfied: these things should be preached to them. How one is accepted as God, what are the symptoms: these things they should learn. So far accepting water, no, practically from one who is not initiated we should not accept any eatables or drinkables. This should not be discussed, but you should remember it. But if there is dire necessity, there is not question of prohibition.
1974 Correspondence
Regarding the prasadam, I never approved Mr. Malkani cooking in the temple. He is not initiated. Of course he is Hindu, but he went there to start his business. But, he is not initiated to cook in the temple. Any paid cook is not desirable. Who was cooking formally? He wanted to start his business, not to be engaged by us. The independent cooking done in the temple kitchen is not good.
| Page Title: | Not initiated |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Serene |
| Created: | 08 of Dec, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=1, CC=3, OB=0, Lec=12, Con=8, Let=14 |
| No. of Quotes: | 38 |