Prabhupāda: Then mother agreed and other friends like Advaita and Śrīnivāsa requested His mother that "You give Him permission." Then (s)he said, "Yes, I have to give Him permission because He has already accept sannyāsa. If somebody blames Him, blasphemy, that is also not good. So my last request is that He may make His headquarter at Jagannātha Purī so that... Because people generally go to Jagannātha Purī, so I shall be able at least to know about Him, how He is faring there. That is my last request." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at once accepted. "My dear mother, I shall always stay in Jagannātha Purī, and sometimes I may come to Bengal also to take bath in the Ganges. So there will be meeting. Now let Me go." So in this way they departed and Caitanya Mahāprabhu for the last time saw His friends and mother.
Not good (Conv. 1967 - 1975)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (2): True. But then you are not going to a country that it is not London. And if I say I am not going to...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is going on. There are innumerable planets, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). Now, if you think that London is not good for you, Paris is good for you, it is good for you.
Guest (3): Well, then the whole conference becomes useless.
Prabhupāda: No. If you don't agree that which is the..., or do not understand what is the highest goal, then conference is useless. If you keep yourself to the understanding where you are, then there is no need of conference.
Prabhupāda: I understand that she, she felt some inconvenience, that girl, in your company.
Govinda dāsī (whispers): Harṣarāṇī! You're making...
Prabhupāda: So she was...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told her, I said, if she wished to come with us, (break) that only married women could come with us. I told her that. Because it was not good for men, unmarried men, brahmacārīs and brahmacārīṇis, to constantly be mixing, and so I felt that it would be better for married people than brahmacārīs. And she... (someone moves microphone) ...did she wish to come?
Prabhupāda: I heard that Gargamuni, after his wife left him, he became a woman-hater like that. (chuckles) That is not good. You see? Yes. After all, anyone who is coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, man or woman, boys or girls, they are welcome. They are very fortunate. You see. And the idea of addressing "prabhu" means "you are my master." That is the... Prabhu means master. And Prabhupāda means many masters who bows down at his lotus feet. That is Prabhupāda. So each, everyone shall treat others as "My master." This is the Vaiṣṇava system. So now, who is going with your party? That girl?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Śrīmatī dāsī.
Devotee (2): Very, very unexpected.
Revatīnandana: She walked out with a sack and said she was going to do wash in a big knapsack and then she never came back.
Prabhupāda: She should not have gone like that. If she did not like, she should have frankly told me. This is not good.
Madhudviṣa: She was in correspondence with her brother, and her brother was had some problems with drugs, taking intoxicants, drugs, and she wanted him to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and she was talking about sending him money to have him come to Seattle. So that made us think that she might have gone to San Francisco to try to bring her brother to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But she...
Prabhupāda: If that is her idea, that's good, but why did not tell us? That "I am going to my brother's." Nobody would have forbidden her. She has taken some money?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred... How much was it?
Prabhupāda: That's small building.
Janārdana: That is small?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have seen it.
Janārdana: You've seen it. You take walks so far over there? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That's not a very big building.
Janārdana: Not good enough for you. (laughter) Well, there's a synagogue...
Prabhupāda: So what did you do about this building? You have not written anything?
Janārdana: Well, I haven't had a minute all week.
Prabhupāda: You must today finish it. We must borrow type and send it.
Janārdana: Okay, I'll finish it today. All this week I was so engaged around the temple.
Prabhupāda: So why should you go, anyone, to ask for your shelter, for your food?" Kasmād bhajanti kavayor dhana-durmadandhān: "Why should you approach the materialistic, puffed-up, monied men to give you some help?" So Śukadeva Gosvāmī was strictly following this, strictly following, completely independent. That is not possible at the present day. (chuckles) If we imitate, that will be not good. We have to depose(?). Our Gosvāmīs, they have prescribed yukta-vairāgya: accept everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Then it is yukta-vairāgya. It is also vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya and yukta-vairāgya. Śuṣka-vairāgya means simply renunciation without assimilation. Māyāvādī sect, Śaṅkara sect, they have got stringent laws for renunciation.
Reporter: Do you think that any improvements in the spacesuit...
Prabhupāda: That is future hope. Not the present suit. I say the present suit is not suitable.
Reporter: What about a future suit?
Prabhupāda: Future, if you improve, that my statement is that if you can make your body suitable you can enter. So far the present suit is concerned, it is not good.
Reporter: Now I think that if the trip is made and it is successful...
Prabhupāda: If, if...
Reporter: ...that there would be no contradiction there and in the case of say no interference from any moon beings, that I can foresee that there would be no contradiction there if it is achieved.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I have got my wife, my grandchildren, everyone, but I have no connection with them. They are doing their own way. My wife is entrusted to the elderly boys. Yes.
Journalist: Well, is that a...? I mean I find that sort of difficult to assimilate, to give up your family and just sort of say, "See you later."
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the Vedic regulation. Everyone should give up family connection at a certain age, after the age of 50. One should not remain in family life. That is Vedic culture. Not that up to death, one is in family-wise, no. That is not good.
Journalist: Can you explain that.
Prabhupāda: First of all, a boy is trained as brahmacārī, spiritual life. Then he is advised not to enter family life. But if he is unable to control his sex life, he is allowed, "All right. You get yourself married." Then he remains in family life. So he marries at the age of 24 or 25. 25 years, let him enjoy sex life.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like a person going, or a boy going to a school, he's getting training in the school as well as home, both sides. Then his chance is very good. So we have to take both wise: from inside, from outside. You are doing some things in the service of the Lord. How you'll know that you are doing it properly or improperly? This you will know from the spiritual master. If he says, "It is all right," then it is all right. If he says, "It is not good," then it is not good. Just like the same way. The officer in charge, if he is satisfied (with) your work, that means you have satisfied the government or the supreme company, arranger, with whom you have no direct connection. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. Therefore it is said that if you satisfy your spiritual master, that means you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa.
Candanācārya: Tell Swamiji about the church we want to get.
Miss Rose: The church...?
Prabhupāda: Then that article has worked adversely?
Satsvarūpa: Yeah. The real estate man said if it had only come out a week later, he said, "You'd be in."
Prabhupāda: So publicity like this is not good for us, that people are thinking we are hippies.
Miss Rose: Yes. That's true, Swamiji. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So then you should not give publicity. You must even in the beginning verify that we are not hippies. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is not for hippies. In many places this is a notion, that we are hippies.
Devotee: Montreal.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: Montreal too, the same thing.
Prabhupāda: You simply talk of him? You practice Buddha if you appreciate him. You give up everything like Buddha and meditate. But that you will not do. Then what is the talking of, useless talking about this? Do something. Either you believe Buddha or Jesus Christ or Kṛṣṇa. Do something. Don't talk simply. Lord Buddha is very nice. He gave up his kingdom in youthful life. He was prince. He thought, "It is all nonsense. Let me meditate." Do like that. That is the disease. We won't do anything. We talk much of this, that, this, that. Do anything, but do it perfectly. "Jack of all trade, master of none." That is not good. Be master of something. It doesn't differ. Either you follow Lord Jesus Christ or Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter much. But do it perfectly. That is our request.
Prabhupāda: The maṭha commander... Of course, so far the management of the New Vrindaban affairs is concerned, that is within maṭha commander's jurisdiction?
Hayagrīva: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Maṭha commander means the, everything of that place under his command.
Hayagrīva: That's not good. Then advisor is better. Advisor would be better.
Prabhupāda: Advisor means his advice will be final?
Hayagrīva: Advice final? That means the advice would be depending on the president.
Prabhupāda: Confirmed by the president. So honorary advisor. Advice gratis?
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) This is not a good proposal. Then where you want to stay?
Hayagrīva: I'd like to go to India. Well, maybe I could travel with you. That would be nice.
Prabhupāda: No. That is not good idea. You have started this New Vrindaban. You must finish it. So you must be in charge of this place. We have to do so many things. So...
Hayagrīva: What about... Why can't two people be in charge? Why can't we both...?
Prabhupāda: No. Then he will work as vice president? Or what do you want? Temple command?
Prabhupāda: So His mother and many people from Nabadwip came to Sant... Advaita's house was in Santipur. So there was, for a few days, Caitanya Mahāprabhu stayed there, and saṅkīrtana and prasāda distribution was going on. And His mother feeling, feeling very well... But Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw that "My mother is not allowing Me to go. That is not good." So He requested, "Mother, I have taken sannyāsī. If I go on feasting like this with mother, what people will say? So you give Me permission to go." So mother said, "Yes, my dear boy. You have taken sannyāsī. But anyway You are happy. That is my happiness. But my only request is that You make Your headquarters at Jagannātha Purī. Because people from Nabadwip generally go there, so I shall get at least Your news. That is my last desire."
Prabhupāda: So he criticized him, so he became more angry. Because you know, everyone, that a horse who looks down like this, that is bad(?) horse. Or looking like this, he's not first-class horse. Do you know that? (laughter) Horse, like this, kat, kat, kat, kat, that is first-class horse. And if horse goes like this, that is not good horse. So he criticized him, and he became angry, and he complained to his father that he's not paying. Rather, he's criticizing me. And he said, "All right. Press him. He'll pay." So the... In those days the highest punishment was cange utthanā. Cange utthanā means a platform is made very high and swords are put in the, this way. And one man is thrown on the swords. That is called cange utthanā.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I can escape the king's law by doing something which is abominable but I cannot escape God's law. That is not possible. Therefore, although he is thinking that "Now I am cheating this person," or "I am stealing and getting some profit," that is not good for him. Just like a man is killing some man, another man. So that is not good for him because as soon as he will be arrested he'll be hanged. So they think that "I am cheating the state, I am cheating God, and I can go on gratifying my senses by all these activities," but that is stated in the śāstra as garhitā. Garhitā means it is not beneficial for you." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam. In another place it is said, "These kinds of activities, vikarma, is not good ultimately." Na sādhu mānye yato ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although ātmā, the self, is different from this body—that is the first lesson in spiritual life—still, this body, although temporary, but as soon as you accept this material body you will have to suffer according to the body. If you get a dog's body you suffer according to that. If you get a man's body... Suffering will be there more or less as soon as you get this material body. Therefore Ṛṣabhadeva said, na sādhu mānye: "You are acting abominable. It is not good because you are already suffering in this body." Otherwise why you are stealing? You are in want of money. You are suffering. Therefore necessity is now law. Therefore you are accepting. Even you know that stealing is bad, still, you are accepting it because that is a suffering. So for some of your activities in the past life you are now suffering, and if you go on, continuing committing this nonsense, then you will again, you will have to again accept a body and you'll suffer. Therefore garhitāṁ.
Prabhupāda: But why should you have illicit sex life? What is this? Irresponsible life. "I shall not take responsibility of family life, and I shall go on as so-called bachelor and have illicit life." But that is not good. That is garhitāṁ. Na sādhu mānye: "This is not good." This is the advice of Vedic literature. Ultimately you'll suffer. You are thinking at the present moment that you are avoiding suffering because family life is very responsible life. So if you think that family life is responsible, yes, it is responsible life.
Guest (4): I would be a very good asset to your publications work.
Prabhupāda: That I know. You are qualified, educated boy. You can do it. But one thing I can do, that you can live with your family just like they are living. That I can arrange. And whatever food we can provide you have to accept. We can... We can arrange for the education of your children also, everything. But we cannot pay anything. That is not possible. We can take charge of the husband and wife. We can take charge of your children. But it is not possible to pay. And besides that, when there is question of payment the service is not good because the payment means he is serving the money. He is not serving the cause. (tape of kīrtana plays for a second)
Guest (4): His old mother listens to these chantings.
Prabhupāda: I have no estimation of this country or that country. I know everywhere, because spiritual education is lacking, everywhere the boys and girls are fallen.
Guest (4): Is secularism coming in way of spreading spiritual education?
Prabhupāda: Secularism is a bogus thing. You see? That is an indulgence, "Whatever you like, you can do. Whatever religion you follow, that's all..." No. That is not good. The state should be responsible for the spiritual progress of the citizens. Now, especially in our country, we say it is Hindustan, Bhāratavarṣa. So we are not giving the bhāratīya or Hindu spiritual cultural education. So that's a great loss of the secular state.
Guest (4): Do you think that the present democratic system will be able to impart a spiritual education?
Prabhupāda: No.
Revatinandana: Yes, (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: That means the social structure is very bad. Otherwise, natural procedure is that everyone should be self-independent. But why state has to give them help? That's not good. You may be... Just like a son may be very rich man's son, but if the father provides him only, then he's a useless son. Is it not? If the father has to provide him money for his maintenance, then that son is useless son. That is not a good certificate. Although you may be very much proud that "I am maintaining my so many sons," why you should maintain? Let them be self-supported.
Yadubara: But what can the state do? Should the state just leave the people alone?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): What I was... You see, I was trying to...
Prabhupāda: Now, the difficulty is don't try to invent something about God. That is not good.
Guest (1): No, not invention.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to take the version of the śāstras; then it will be possible. If you invent something, try to speculate on something, it will not be successful.
Guest: But I mean to say one thing is, like in Vedas, whatever is written could have been proved like in a scientific way, today... Suppose there is a lab which is scientific. Whatever is said by that lab, that "This is truth," accepted without going to argue into the propriety of it... Suppose you have a scientific knowledge shop or a place, and if this workshop or this scientific institution states, "This is not good. This is not good," a general body accepts, take it for granted, "Yes, scientific body has said so. It is understood. It's..."
Prof. Kotovsky: Hm. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Personally he hasn't got to examine, himself. He takes the statement of an authority and believes him.
Guest: Common person, a common man.
Prabhupāda: Some time must be taken, but unlimited time, unlimited expenditure, that's not good. Ten percent. You produce books. Take ten percent. You may have more than 1,500. You may have more than that. They were to send me one card. There are no letters from them?
Karandhara: No. That's all that came, Prabhupāda. There were some more checks. I sent some to London. I sent two packages to London, two, two things to London. (break)
Prabhupāda: So anyway, I was very much anxious to hear about Chidananda. So he has written me. He is not very bad.
Karandhara: Well, he was in the hospital, and he got into a fight with the guard, I guess, and they arrested him for fighting and put him in jail for six months.
Prabhupāda: Fighting?
Mr. Arnold: I don't think they're willing at this stage, my lord, because there's been so little done for them, and I feel, and I...
Śyāmasundara: Well, we're having Jagannātha parade, Prabhupāda is speaking...
Mr. Arnold: Yes, but in their own communities, we, I suggested a long time ago that in fact there should be an appeal, start off with an appeal in the local papers.
Prabhupāda: The priestly class, they will make propaganda against us: "Oh, they are mlecchas, they are Europeans, they are Americans. What they can do? It is not good." Because India, the caste system is very strong. So I am giving the Europeans and Americans the opportunities to become brāhmaṇa, they are not satisfied.
Dhanañjaya: Also they say that here in our temple they don't let anyone else speak, so why should we..., they, why should we let them speak? This is what they say. Because we don't allow them to come, you know, and talk on Hinduism, so they say, "Why should we ask, let them do it here, in our community?"
Śyāmasundara: Still, they're asking us to supply them pūjārīs.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Why not? Why not?
Sister Mary: It goes deeper and deeper?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything we hear, it goes to the heart. If I call you by name, it does not go to my heart? "You rascal. You stupid." You hear. Does it not go to my heart? Why I become angry unless it goes to my heart. If "rascal," "stupid," and all these bad names go to my heart, why God's name will not go to my heart? If by calling you by ill names you become angry, that means it goes to your heart. Why not good name? It goes. It enters through the ear and goes to the heart.
Sister Mary: I'm doing that, saying sometimes a little prayer...
Prabhupāda: So if you repeatedly chant, it will remain. It will always remain in your heart.
Sister Mary: Always going on.
Haṁsadūta: Well it reminds me of Janārdana. You know Janārdana was a big scholar and he was very intelligent, but he never produced very much. You remember Janārdana? So Maṇḍalībhadra is working full time. He never comes to the temple. Of course, he lives far away, but he never comes to the temple. And I know when a person doesn't come to the temple, it's very difficult for him to maintain, especially if he maintains a full time job. It has an imperceptible effect on your consciousness. And he also, you know, we sometimes, we don't see very much eye to eye. Like for instance, this coming Back to Godhead he wanted to produce, he wanted to put a picture of some of the... Like there's a picture in one of the old Back to Godheads of Vṛndāvana. So I said, "This picture is not good because Kṛṣṇa is not in this picture. There's no Kṛṣṇa. We must have..."
Prabhupāda: Old Vṛndāvana?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, some buildings. Like Jaya Govinda used to write those articles, you remember? He used to write articles...
Prabhupāda: Comic?
Prabhupāda: But my position is, as soon as I appoint my lawyer, I'll have to depend fully on you. I cannot do anything else. Whatever you advise me I have to do that.
Dr. Weir: Yes, but whatever you told me depends upon what advice I give to you.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But, as you say, the mother gives misinformation. Similarly, if you misguide me, that is not good. But I will have to depend on you.
Dr. Weir: But not deliberately. A lot of people don't know that that information is wrong.
Prabhupāda: No. Sometimes it is done deliberately. Sometimes it is done deliberately because everyone in this material world is imperfect. Therefore there is tendency of cheating. That is one of the qualifications of the conditioned soul. He becomes mistaken. He becomes illusioned. He cheats and his senses are imperfect.
Dr. Weir: Well, I'm sorry I think you're using the word cheat in a much broader sense. We would use cheat as conscious mistake as opposed to a person who doesn't realize that what he says doesn't happen to be true.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He had his assistants, I had my assistants.
Reporter: ...and some other people who said "All right, we'll hear, like to hear..."
Prabhupāda: Well, that professor wanted to hear, that's all right. So I... My conclusion was that "Your communistic idea has not very much improved from our idea, because you cannot do without surrendering. Our Kṛṣṇa philosophy is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). So your surrendering process is there. You have not improved. You say God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not good, but you have not improved, because instead of Kṛṣṇa, you have surrendered to Lenin. That's all. So you have to surrender in any circumstance. Either you become communist or this 'ist' or that 'ist,' you have to surrender."
Reporter: That's it. And you will go to (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: This is a fact. This is a fact. You have to surrender to your senses. That's all. And we are simply recommending surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. By surrendering to senses you are not happy, but if you surrender to Kṛṣṇa you will be happy. Your surrender is there always. You cannot say that "I don't surrender to anybody." That is nonsense.
Reporter: There should be right surrender.
Devotee (3): See the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the līlā is death mostly. But it isn't death, the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says, "I want to go to Jesus, but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do?" And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested, therefore people are leaving religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Actually, that is their philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've heard people say exactly that, "All the things I want to do are for the people that are going to hell, therefore I want to go to hell. Why should I go anywhere else?" (indistinct) drinking, smoking, etc... And so they will.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: There was a body to guide him, to train him. Therefore, the monarchical government was perfect. Now here is a story of Vena Maharaja. His father was very (indistinct) it is usual, very nice king. But his son, this Vena, born of a bad mother, he was not good. He was killing unnecessarily animal, even men, because he was prince. So he would play with his friends and if there is any fault on the part of his friends, he will at once kill. And because he was prince, son of the king, nobody could take any steps.
Prabhupāda: So because the grandfather of Vena Maharaja was a bad man, his daughter means Sunīthā, the mother of Vena, she became bad. And naturally her son, Vena, she (he) became bad. The father was very nice, good king. But because the mother was not good, the son became bad. Here is the evidence. Sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. Sunīthā, his mother's name was Sunīthā. Because he was born in the womb of Sunīthā, a bad woman, therefore, he... Nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ. He has been elected as the king to protect the citizens. Instead of protecting, he is disturbing.
Bob: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, when He becomes a rascal, that is also good. That is Kṛṣṇa. Rascaldom is not good, but when it is practiced by Kṛṣṇa, because He's absolute good, that rascaldom is also good. That one has to understand.
Bob: Are there some people who do not find Kṛṣṇa attractive?
Prabhupāda: It is not the..., no question of some people. Kṛṣṇa cannot be compared with some people. He's God.
Bob: No, do some people find Him not attractive?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Śyāmasundara: Say, like our parents or many people in the material world, completely addicted to material life. They don't want to follow any austerities, uncomfortable, but still they must. By nature they're forced to austerities.
Prabhupāda: That is forced austerity; that is not good. Voluntary austerity will help.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) ...if you don't undergo voluntary austerity, you must be forced to undergo...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bob: These people then are half good?
Prabhupāda: Not half God.
Bob: Half good, good.
Prabhupāda: Not good. If he does not know this principle, that God is the proprietor... Others' thing, what do you mean by others' thing?
Bob: Like, people I'm thinking of, they're poor people who need money and food, but...
Prabhupāda: Everyone needs money. Everyone needs. Who is not poor? Anyone find out. So many gentlemen sitting here. Who is not in need of food and money? You are also in need of money. So what do you distinguish poor and rich? Everyone needs. If that is your definition, if one needs money and food, everyone needs money and food. So everyone is poor.
Prabhupāda: If you say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa was a thief, then I can become a thief," then your will be beating of shoes on your head, and Kṛṣṇa will be eternally worshiped because He is thief. That is the difference. That is Absolute. He will be worshiped as thief, and He will be worshiped as very honest. That is Absolute. (aside:) No, no, this (indistinct) is not good. I will take little fruit.
Yadubara: What have I understood? I understand that the chant has potency, has some meaning for me. And I understand on the basis of what I've done before, on the basis of my experience, what I've seen around me, I've seen that conditions are not good. And I've seen the conditions in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are much better and the feeling is much better.
Prabhupāda: That is very good sign. Yes.
Prabhupāda: You can give some of that. It is not very nice.
Yamunā: We need the nice ones.
Guru dāsa: We don't have any others.
Yamunā: We didn't bring so many things with us, but we'll give him very nice.
Prabhupāda: Here Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa photo is cut, it's not good. You have got any in your photo...
Śyāmasundara: Not color.
Prabhupāda: May not be color.
Śyāmasundara: Doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: In the Vedas there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, but he began to deride. So his business was to deride the Vedic principles, that "I do not care for these Vedas." Therefore Buddha's religion was not accepted in India. He criticized. He criticized the Vedic principles. In the Vedic principles there is recommendation for animal sacrifice, and he criticized, "This is not good. Don't do this." Therefore it is criticism. Vedic injunction should be accepted as it is. You cannot criticize. Then there is no Vedic authority. So therefore he defied Vedic authorities. As such, he was not accepted, strictly followers of the Vedas. But he has got a different purpose. The ordinary man cannot understand. But one who is devotee, he knows that why he has done this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is the way of learning what is God. The main business is that one must know God. It is not that because I approach some person and he did not know, he could give me the right knowledge of God, then I give up this idea of knowing God. No. That will not..., that is not good for human life. Then you remain animal. I might have been cheated or I might not have approached the proper person, but that does not mean that I can stop that idea. That is not... In another place it is said, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One who is actually inquisitive to understand the highest benefit of life, he must approach a guru. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ. Jijñāsu means inquisitive. Śreya—the highest benefit of life. Uttamam-highest. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. What is the qualification of such a person? Ṣābde pare ca niṣṇātaṁ. He is completely well versed in the transcendental science. And what is the symptom that he is well versed? Brahmaṇy upaśamāśrayam. He has taken shelter of Brahma or Kṛṣṇa or God. Upāsanā-finishing all desires. These two things: he is a devotee and he has no more material desires. He must be well versed in the science, he must be a devotee, and he has no attraction for material things. These three things, if you can find, then he's perfect guru. Everything is there in the śāstra; therefore books should be consulted. If you have no books, those who are discussing books, you should approach them, you should hear them. Just like we are holding class, morning, evening. People can come here, take advantage what we are speaking, then gradually they can understand. But we cannot avoid that. That is not good idea. If I say that "I went to church. I'm not very much enlightened; therefore I give up this attempt," oh, that is not good.
John Fahey: Oh, I didn't give it up. I'm still looking.
Devotee: He comes to aratik.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Devotee: He takes prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Not hitting. By otherwise engage.
Devotee (4): Like if he doesn't...
Prabhupāda: "Don't you see your other friends are taking bath. Why shall you not take bath? Very nice, you are so intelligent boy, you are not like that."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Positive.
Prabhupāda: By sweet words. They are after all children. Forcing is not good. (pause) What it this?
Devotee (4): Oh, I just wrote... My brother was in the hospital, so I just wrote a little letter to him. I'm going to send him some...
Prabhupāda: This is the letterheading, latest?
Prabhupāda: We have got some, giving, give her that.
Sumati Morarjee: This is from (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Yes, we get from Hong Kong.
Sumati Morarjee: Hong Kong. Why, is it good?
Prabhupāda: No, it is not good. It is wrong. That we sent it...
Sumati Morarjee: How?
Prabhupāda: ...different, in different way.
Devotee: They dip it into oils.
Prabhupāda: Scented Oil. That's...
Prabhupāda: It must be touched and used for Kṛṣṇa. We don't try to (indistinct) that pseudo renouncement. What I have got that I shall renouncement? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Our renouncement means we renounce our personal sense gratification, that's all. That is renouncement. Materialism means personal sense gratification, and spiritual life means no personal sense gratification, all Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That's all. The same teaching by Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna was thinking in terms of personal sense gratification: "I shall not fight. It is not good to kill my kinsmen, my brother." That was personal sense gratification. From ordinary point of view people will say, "How Kṛṣṇa is..., Arjuna is nice, that he's giving up his claim, and nonviolent."
Prabhupāda: No, no. One day, two days, yes. Even if it runs fifty mile per hour, so from morning, early morning to noon, say six hours if we run, it's three hundred miles in the morning and three hundred miles in the evening, and stay at night. And then the next day three hundred miles, three hundred..., six hundred miles. Twelve hundred miles anywhere you go from Calcutta to Bombay, Calcutta to Madras, Calcutta to Delhi, within twelve hundred miles. Within two days from anywhere to anywhere you can go. India's length and breadth is not so wide as in your country. You have got... That is also not good roads, in your... But in Calcutta, to Calcutta-Bombay, Madras, Delhi, there are good roads.
Prabhupāda: So ask Pradyumna if he wants to give.
Devotee: Yeah. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...viṣaya chāḍiyā. Oh, yes, then it is (indistinct). Viṣaya chāḍiyā, se rase majiyā mukhe bolo hari hari, parama karuṇa, pahū dui jana. But even if we do speculation business and do it for Kṛṣṇa, that is not good.
Devotee: Not so high a class.
Jayatīrtha: She is a 40-years-old lady, her name is Lucille. She is very much actually convinced of our philosophy and is devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the only thing is, because she comes conditioned from a previous life, can't give up, has a very hard time giving up smoking cigarettes and drinking coffee. She's been trying for about nine months to give up these things, (indistinct) but she can't do it. Still she is desirous of initiation. So I don't know what to (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No. You must at least promise that he gives (break) And if we promise that (indistinct). But after initiation if she smokes, that's not good.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. (indistinct)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: So if someone is sincere, we want them to follow devotional principles. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Johannesburg, yes. There also we are meeting with great success. And from Johannesburg, then I shall go to London. In Moscow also we have got a small center. I went to Moscow.
Indian man: Russians running it?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Russians. Russian young boys are as good as Americans. By artificial means they have been checked. The Russian government is not good at all. Suppression. Simply suppression.
Indian man: But they permit this kind of thing?
Prabhupāda: They do not permit, but they are holding class.
Indian man: Holding class.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (2): They told me they wanted you to go in the room for prasādam. But they wanted a meeting and they didn't tell me. I didn't know.
Prabhupāda: I can request them. But if they deny that will be insult for me. Therefore I do not like to request them. That will be not good for them, if I request and then they deny, or they do not do. That is not that will be good for them. It is better not to request. That will be offense, if they deny. Or if they did not carry out my order, then it will be offense. Why should they put themselves in such risk? Generally it is the duty of the householder to offer, "Sir, what can I do for you?" Then I can request. But if, as a beggar, I request them and they deny, then that will be great offense for them. That will not good for them.
Prabhupāda: That I have (indistinct) later. (to someone else?)
Hayagrīva: That was very cruel, it looked very cruel to me. It looked like he was beaten with boards. It looked criminal. So, I don't think uh, if it happened to me I would sue. If that happened to me. The boy's eye could be put out. That's not good, under any circumstance.
Prabhupāda: That we are discussing. That was not a very (indistinct).
Acyutānanda: Also he says "Nitāi-gaura haribol! That is also, that's māyā." So, what is that?
Pañcadraviḍa: And so he was saying that all these bhajanas, they are, they are not bonafide, because they are, have...
Prabhupāda: He said: "Gaura haribol! is not bona fide?" He said, bona fide?
Devotee: Oh, not that, he was saying jaya gurudeva, jaya prabhupāda, that is not good.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee: I said, was saying, that is not good, jaya gurudeva, because it does not say who, it just says gurudeva. It could be any gurudeva. So he was criticizing that.
Prabhupāda: Who was criticizing?
Pañcadraviḍa: Bhavānanda. Because of the letter you wrote to him saying that we are personalist to the letter.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, yesterday's Bhāgavata lecture, the example that the hundred dollar bill, one hundred dollar bill. So if somebody picks up and takes it, he's a thief, and if somebody who just does not care...
Prabhupāda: Does not take it.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he's also not good. And the one who takes up and says, "Whose coin is this?" Then he's good.
Prabhupāda: Yes, his service is better.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, but how about the one who picks up and he doesn't find the owner of the coins but he offers to Kṛṣṇa.
Karandhara: That would blow up the planet. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Water can be counteracted by fire or air. Everyone knows it. So you do it, suspension. So this is for you mystic power. You can talk all nonsense, but you cannot act against it. Therefore it is mystic power. So similarly, there are so many things. That is acintya-śakti. You cannot think of even. By nature's way, immediately the sun rises—no more mist. All finished. A little temperature increase of the sun, all finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. This example is given in the Bhāgavata. Nīhāra, this is called nīhāra. Just like nīhāra is immediately dissipated by bhāskara, by the sun, similarly, if one can awaken his dormant devotion, then all finished, all his reaction of sinful activities, finished. Nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ. You just create... You calculate sun is composition of this chemical, that chemical. Just create one sun and throw it. Simply theoretical future, bluff and juggling of words, that's not good.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is what the research means. Research means to understand what was not known before.
Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer.
Prabhupāda: That is our problem. Either you become rich man or poor man, but you have to undergo. (aside:) Make the light. There is switch. (pause) So our position is that we are in this material world. George has sung that "I am in the material world." Yes, very sensible song. (laughs) He's good boy, realizing, he also... So this material life is not good. Material life is not good in this sense, because you have to change your body. Sometimes good birth, sometimes not good birth. Sometimes Englishman, sometimes cats, dogs. Because after death you'll get a body that will be chosen not by you but by the material nature. You'll create your body by your present activities, and nature will simply award you that body. So, so long we have got this material body, the four kinds of miserable conditions, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease, you have to suffer. Therefore, this human life should be utilized in such a way that we do not become subject to these four tribulations, birth, death, old age and disease.
Prabhupāda: What is that? Sometimes it is not successful?
Śyāmasundara: When we try artificially to impose our idea on something, say, a sculpture, sometimes we make a mistake and it comes out not good.
Prabhupāda: That mistake you are responsible.
David Wynne: Yeah. Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Why not? If He has given, He can withdraw also.
Mr. Wadell: Oh, I don't... Well, we have a rather strange view of God...
Prabhupāda: No, you may have strange view. We are arguing. As soon as you say God has given you intellect, He can withdraw also your intellect.
Mr. Wadell: But you see, what we have also to explain—why all men are not good. Now, if God chose, He could force all men to be good, but that is not the way.
Prabhupāda: No, God has given you intellect to become good, but because you disobey God, you have become bad.
Prabhupāda: He followed the moral principles of this material world. He thought... He expressed that "Duryodhana...," he knew that "Either be on Arjuna's side or not, Arjuna will be victorious. Because Kṛṣṇa is there. So let us fight with..." Because kṣatriya, this fighting is sporting. You see. That is not any difficult task for them. So he showed these moral principles, that "These people are maintaining me, Duryodhana... They are maintaining me. I am old man, and they are taking care of me, and they are expect... So when they are in danger, I shall go to his enemy's side? Oh, this is not good." That he saw. And he knew that, "Even if I do not go to this side, he'll be victorious." So he showed these moral principles. "So one is maintaining me and he is in now danger, I go to his enemy's side, that does not look well."
Prabhupāda: Simple life, simple life, innocent life... Because after all, we have to give up this material world. If we become attached, then we'll have to take birth again. Nivṛtta-tarṣair... There is another verse quoted by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is very difficult, but there is possibility. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. Bhagavad-bhajana, those who are eager to go back to home, back to Godhead... Pāraṁ paraṁ jigamiṣor bhava-sāgarasya. On the other side of this material world. For him... Viṣayiṇāṁ sandarśanam atha yoṣitāṁ ca, hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'py asādhu (CC Madhya 11.8). For such person to be attracted by these material things is not good. It is suicidal. So material things, viṣaya, simply increasing the method of eating, sleeping, sex life and defense. This is material activity.
Prabhupāda: First of all... First of all thing is the, what is the aim of practicing yoga? So to achieve that end, that purpose, you have to control the mind because mind is very flickering, going here, there, there, there. So first of all you must know what is the purpose of practicing yoga, why you should practice yoga. So in order to achieve that goal, you have to concentrate your mind, and therefore you have to control the mind going here and there. That is control. Mind business is acceptance and rejecting. This is mind's business. Immediately I accept, "It is very good;" again, next moment, "No, no it is not good. Reject it." This is called flickering mind. So by yoga practice you have to make your mind in such a way that whatever you decide, that is correct, not the state of rejecting and accepting. So first of all, you have to know why you are practicing yoga. As you asked the question, "Why control of mind?" Then the next question will be "Why you are practicing? What is your aim?" You are going to practice yoga. Why? What is the aim?
Prabhupāda: Now, now, now, but you are seeing the electric lamp, but why do you believe so much on your seeing power? You cannot see so many things, even though you have got the eyes.
Student (3): I have no reason not to believe.
Prabhupāda: No, that is not good. If you say, "I cannot see beyond this wall. There is nothing," nobody will take your words.
Student (3): Well, I don't know about that. I can see the wall.
Prabhupāda: You can say you don't know, but you cannot say that because you do not see, therefore it is nothing. You cannot say that.
Prabhupāda: Spirit opp...?
Father Tanner: Opposed. Taking that the, you know, that God is good,...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Father Tanner: ...is there another spirit that is not good?
Prabhupāda: No, we are all another spirit. Just like the father and the son. The father is also a spirit. The son is also another spirit.
Father Tanner: Can there be opposition in the spirit world?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Not many people in western countries are thinking about this now.
Prabhupāda: That's not very good.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No.
Prabhupāda: That's not good.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: No.
Prabhupāda: That means it proves less intelligence.
Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, basis... Now, suppose if a people in general, they are not advanced, by their votes, somebody is elected, he may not be also advanced. That is the defect of democracy. Mass of people, they are not advanced. So simply by their vote, if somebody is elected, then they will have to repent. Just like Nixon. He's elected, but these people are again decrying him, that "No, you are not good." So why do you, did you elect him? You elect, and again you reject. That is the defect of democracy. that people are not advanced. They can commit mistake, elect somebody wrong. And then they will lament. This is the defect. But monarchy, as it was approved by the Vedic culture, the monarchy, if the king is first-class, God conscious... A king should be like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Cardinal Danielou: But the commandment practical can be various.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like God, if God says that: "You can do this," that is not sin. But if God says that: "You cannot do it", then it is sin.
Cardinal Danielou: When God says that it is not good to Indian, and says to the Jews that it is...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Now take... Therefore I say that Jesus Christ, either you call him God, or confidential representative of God, both of them are one, when he says: "Thou shalt not kill," why should we interpret in an another way, to our convenience?
Cardinal Danielou: Yes, but Jesus eated (French, refers to passover lamb)
Prabhupāda: How much people appreciated. So we have to preach like that, the substance. Not the sentiment. But if we cannot, the saṅkīrtana is sufficient. (break) ...anumāna-pramāṇa. Anumāna, hypothesy, and pramāṇa, śāstra-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa. evidences from the Vedas. Evidences from authorized persons. And anumāna also. That is not good evidence. But even if you take anumāna, that if I make... This table is created by somebody. It is all right. But to find out that somebody is still further progress. Similarly, we have to accept that this gigantic universe... As I say that what is the purpose? If there is purpose, whose purpose? Who is acting? In this way, we have to make progress. We are passing on, on the street.
Professor: That's fine. That is fine.
Prabhupāda: What, what is your opinion about interpretation?
Professor: Well, it's much better to have a commentary separated, not an interpretation given mixed with the translation. It is not to be...
Prabhupāda: It is not good. No. Yes. We cite them...
Professor: It has to be different.
Prabhupāda: No, if you have got your own opinion, you can write your own book. But you cannot interpret on the Bhagavad-gītā.
Professor: Yes, that's right. You are right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are Muslim, and, it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty. You cannot give up religion. Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government's duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous, "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government. What do you think?
Ambassador: I think, Your Eminence, there's a lot in what you say, but, you know, politics is the art of the possible.
Prabhupāda: No. No, politics means to see that people are advanced, citizens are advanced, not that they are degraded.
Jaya Hari: One of the main reasons for having this reception was to help sell the books, also.
Prabhupāda: No, I no... You cannot forget your duty. If, if there is some extra duty, that does not mean you shall forget your own duty. So now they are selling books. You also join. Yes. And you have no tilaka. You are just like ordinary boy. Why?
Jaya Hari: I don't have time to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not good. This is not good. You must be as our representative, with tilaka, as we are dressed. Yes. Don't be deviated. You have got a good opportunity. Don't be deviated by bad association. Yes. You are a good boy. So you must revive to your original position. All right. Thank you.
Jaya Hari: Are you pleased by the reception?
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Jaya Hari: The reception is all right?
Prabhupāda: You cannot make any progress by this sort of karmī's life. We have to work for organization, but not that whole day and night engaged and no sat-saṅga. That is a misguided policy, and it will spoil the whole structure. In Los Angeles, they regularly assemble during ārati and class. If this regulative principle is lost, then you are karmīs. They must come back by six o'clock, suspending all other duties, and assemble by seven o'clock. Joint mess program is not good. "You bring some money, you bring some money and spend us jointly for eating, sleeping." That is called joint mess. You know the joint mess? This word? What is that, meaning?
Brahmānanda: Well, it means... I thought it had something to do with civil servants, where they all live in a dormitory and eat in a large hall.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. But you cannot assimilate all the answers in one day. That is not possible. You see. You have many questions, but ask in many days, not in one day. Otherwise you will get indigestion. (laughter) You will not be able to... Simply you go on questioning, questioning, and don't take anything. That is no use. Take. Make one question. Try to understand. Adopt it in life. Then make another question. Don't take all the answers at a time and become suffering in dysentery. No. (laughter) Don't do that. That's alright. You cannot take one month's food in one hour. Can you take? So that's alright. Gradually. Your questions are nice, but don't take the answers all in a day. That will be not good. If you understand very easily, then you will forget very easily.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the laws of nature.
Prabhupāda: No, no, laws of nature if you want. If you want to be condemned, then laws of nature is there. Otherwise laws of nature is teaching you how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Just like police. Police business is to make you lawful. If you become lawful, there is no question of police. There is no question of police law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is kicking you one after another so that you may come to sense that "This life is not good." But we are so foolish that we say, "No, it is good." Yan maithunādi. "There is sex life. Oh, it is very good." This is the position.
Devotee: You give the analogy in the Bhagavad-gītā that it's like pouring gas onto a fire you're trying to put out.
Sudāmā: Right.
Prabhupāda: So one must give service. Simply to feel, "I belong to Kṛṣṇa's family," and doing nothing for Kṛṣṇa, that is not...
Sudāmā: That's no good.
Prabhupāda: That's no good. That is not good. That means he'll... Very soon he'll again forget Kṛṣṇa. He'll again forget Kṛṣṇa.
Sudāmā: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Kṛṣṇa's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetfulness means māyā.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He's saving you, but you don't carry His order.
Umāpati: Yes, but it's not recognized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like I say, "Chant sixteen rounds." If you do not do it. What can I do? That is your fault.
Satsvarūpa: If God were to force us, there'd be no love.
Prabhupāda: Eh? No, no. Force is not good. Force is there. Force is there. The māyā is another force.
Prajāpati: There's a large segment of the population today who say, "We only speak about God in terms of our own relationships with each other." So one group, they say, "This is all male chauvinism, to say God is a male. Actually, we are saying now the women should be elevated so God is woman for us." They say like that.
Prabhupāda: The same process. Just like one wants to eat meat. He is given some regulation, "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you do like this: Go to a mosque. On Eid day you can kill one animal." Or "You go to the synagogue under the protection of..." And our Hindu śāstra says, "Go to the Goddess Kālī's temple, and get a goat, black goat." That means under condition. If it is good thing, it would have been sanctioned, "Yes, you can do whatever you like." But it is not good. But if you say, "It is not good," he'll not accept. Therefore under some condition. (break)
Prajāpati: There's a group called Christian Scientists. They say God is not a person. He's simply a principle, a principle of truth, beauty, all these, just qualities.
Prabhupāda: No, the things is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody is rascal, either the scientist is rascal or the priest is rascal. There must be real understanding. That is government's duty. Otherwise, if the priest says, "The scientist speaking against religion; therefore he should be hanged," so that is not good government. Government must see that whether the scientist is speaking the truth. That sense must be there. Yes, world is round. That is fact. Goloka. In Vedic literature it is bhū-gola, jagad-aṇḍa. These words are there. We can see also it is round, jagad-aṇḍa. The universe is round. And Goloka. Or Bhū-gola. Bhū-gola, the earth is round.
Prajāpati: ...Śrīla Prabhupāda, the theologians call contrition. Means an actual thinking about how sinful we are, actually meditating on our sinful condition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that "I have infected this disease." So simply thinking, "Oh, I have been infected by this disease," that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence.
Karandhara: Yes. Or it's like a criminal. If he commits a crime, it's nice that he laments, but he can't just lament. He has to start working positively.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we have got little freedom. Therefore this freedom is given, "All right..." So by freedom, sometimes we are becoming Lord Brahmā and sometimes the germ in the stool. This is going on. Otherwise, why there are so many different types of living entities? That freedom is acting under three modes: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, and tamo-guṇa. And when they are multiplied, three into three equals nine, nine into eighty-one; therefore 8,400,000 species. They experience everything. That is evolution, coming down, again going up, coming down again. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). So when they become exasperated, "No more." They want to become merging into the Supreme. When they are fatigued. After being karmī, then jñānī: "This is not good. What is actually our aim of life, let us search out." But because they make research in their teeny brain, they come to the conclusion, voidism and impersonalism, that "Make it zero, this botheration." That is also imperfect. So when they come to Bhagavān and engage himself in the service, then it is perfect, original.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If one is Vaiṣṇava, then to glorify him is..., that's not...
Hanumān: So that's all right.
Satsvarūpa: As long as that Vaiṣṇava is following the principles.
Prabhupāda: But they should not attempt like that in the presence of their spiritual master. That is not good. When you found this?
Satsvarūpa: When did you find they were doing this?
Hanumān: When I was there. I was in Brazil about three months ago. And the only books they had published is a book written by Siddha-svarūpa Gosvāmī. They had published one book of him, and they were distributing this.
Prabhupāda: What is the name of that book?
Prabhupāda: Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, yes. She invited me this time.
Yaśomatīnandana: She is writer, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. She is very educated. Now, her husband made very great attempt for publishing book, but there is no sufficient customer. Now the press is going to be sold, and nobody customer. That is letter-setting press. Now it is obsolete. So they were perplexed. She wanted that I shall purchase. And what shall I do with this press? Letter setting is now abolished. That is not good job now. There must be litho press or, what is called, offset. Yes.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if... Since Kṛṣṇa is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Umāpati: That's called representation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. People have become cheaters. Therefore their representative is also cheater. You can make vigorous propaganda that "This will not help without prayer, offering prayer to Lord. You shall stopped; it is not good. And prayer means you chant the name of God. So there is no loss on your part. If there is some gain, why don't you try it?" It will be very nice, beneficial.
Umāpati: They have nothing more to lose.
Prabhupāda: "But if you chant, you will be gainer. So... And what is the harm? You chant and see the result."
Sudāmā: No, they throw them away.
Bali Mardana: They are not intelligent.
Sudāmā: They don't know anything about dābs.
Bali Mardana: No?
Sudāmā: They think dābs is not good. Yes, karmīs don't like the taste.
Prabhupāda: The only good thing is meat, for them. Kadarya-bhakṣana kare. Nānā yoni sadā phire, kadarya-bhakṣana kare
karma-kāṇḍa, jñāna-kāṇḍa, kevala viṣera bhāṇḍa,
- amṛta baliyā yebā khāya
nānā yoni sadā phire, kadarya-bhakṣaṇa kare
- tara janma adhaḥ paṭe jāya
Do you understand?
Devotee: I do not follow.
Bali Mardana: Yes, Oriental.
Nitāi: Orientalia.
Prabhupāda: Orientalia, yes. That lady was secretary of Dr. Mishra. (japa) (To child?) Oh, you cannot walk? That's not good. You must walk. She cannot... (japa) She's walking? (japa)
Bali Mardana: (break) ...talks real funny, sort of Spanish way?
Prabhupāda: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: That is excluding labor.
Guru dāsa: Yes. So if they can do it for five, it is good rate.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru dāsa: But if they do it five for just the marble, it is not good rate.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not good. It is included everything, that I was informed by...
Guru dāsa: Then it's, then it is good. It is very good for us.
Prabhupāda: Then we shall accept.
Guru dāsa: Oh, yes. It is good quotation. But he is not willing to do the bank guarantee.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu... (Hindi)
- manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
- kaścid yatati siddhaye
- yatatām api siddhānāṁ
- kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
- (BG 7.3)
So to know God, it is not very easy job. And in the Vedas also, it is stated, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. So this process is not good.
Mr. Sar: Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tam eva vivṛṇute tanūṁ svām.
Prabhupāda: Then that is another thing. That is another thing. But one who is "family hite ratāḥ," "country hite ratāḥ," "community hite ratāḥ," how he can do?
Dr. Patel: So in this Bhagavān has said, sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ.
Prabhupāda: But sarva-bhūta-hite ratāḥ. Now, these people, they are hite ratāḥ of limited circle, that's all.
Mr. Sar: Ohh. That is why their... This path is not good for mankind.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, one must accept sannyāsa at a certain stage.
Prabhupāda: So when it is ruining life, how you can say it the best?
Dr. Patel: But it doesn't save the live of someone?
Prabhupāda: That I know also. But that is in different use. You cannot take. Just like even a snake poison, venomous, that is also used for saving lives. But that does not mean the snake is good.
Dr. Patel: I mean it is not good for majority.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So I am talking of the majority.
Dr. Patel: Everything made by God is made with an intention of...
Prabhupāda: No, no. We are talking of the majority, not of the small minority.
Hṛdayānanda: You are expert manager.
Prabhupāda: A child does not want to go to school, but it is the duty of the parent to send him to the school by some way or other. So that is government's duty, that a man should be employed according to his capacity. There should be no unemployment. That is very dangerous position of the society. Now this unemployment question is very strong all over the world. They'll plan that "This government is not good. That system is not good. He's not good." And he'll do nothing. He'll personally do nothing. Just like the hippies, they criticize everyone, but he'll not do anything. It is all... These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are going too far? Employed... (break) ...from the government to utilize this land. You see? So much. Everywhere you'll find. Everywhere you'll find. Who was with me in London?
Devotee: Yeah. Last time, last summer?
Prabhupāda: Letchmore Heath.
Viṣṇujana: ...that we live there and...
Prabhupāda: No. But we are taking it, "Now we have got very nice house, room. Let us sleep and eat."
Viṣṇujana: Then there'll be wide criticism.
Prabhupāda: That is... This is not good.
Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda...
Prabhupāda: Nārakī.
Nitāi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Arcye viṣṇau... (break) ...when it will teach military art, with tilaka, soldiers will, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa..." (laughter) We want that. Marching with military band, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." You maintain this idea. Is it not good?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: When there will be military march of Kṛṣṇa conscious soldiers. Anyone who does not believe in Kṛṣṇa, "Blam!" (laughter) Yes. The same process as the Mohammedans did, with sword and Koran, we'll have to do that. "Do you believe in Kṛṣṇa or not?" "No, sir." "Blam!" Finished. (laughter, Prabhupāda laughs) What do you think, Madhudviṣa Mahārāja? Is that all right?
Madhudviṣa: Yes.
Gupta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, if the government cannot utilize, it comes to us. We shall work. Is it not good?
Gupta: Very good.
Prabhupāda: So in our society there should be no diplomacy, no politics. Everyone should be eager how to do good to others. That is Vaiṣṇava. If he's planning something, that "I shall be leader," "I shall be doing something," that is not Vaiṣṇavism. That politics is not good.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ: (CC Madhya 13.80) "I am the servant of the servant of." So you have to serve your immediate master, dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ, servant of the Supreme Lord. If you want to jump over the original master, that is not good. Then you will be dismissed like, like my friend.
Harikeśa: Associating with you is so wonderful, and yet...
Prabhupāda: To carry his order. That is purification. If you create your own atmosphere, then you become impure. If you simply carry out the order of your spiritual master, then you will be benefited. If you do your own business, that is not good. You can not do anything which is not ordered by your spiritual master. Of course, everyone should have sense. It is not that we are dull, stone. Unless it is moved, it cannot... You have got moving power. But the basic issue should be to carry out the orders of his spiritual master. That is your president. Otherwise you are not.
Dr. Patel: They worship guru and God both.
Prabhupāda: That is guru. Guru and God...
Dr. Patel: And you. You cannot have God without guru.
Prabhupāda: And, "Let God go away." Oh, that is not good. That is not good.
Dr. Patel: It is not so. I think somebody has wrongly informed you, sir. And I will get you some comparative literatures to... (break) There are no four-hand there. There are no... You have wrongly seen and I have wrongly seen. No. That is...
Prabhupāda: But you showed me the wrong thing.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I cannot... A chaste woman, you cannot divide her. She must stick to one husband.
Indian man (4): No, in his time, people were Vaiṣṇavas...
Prabhupāda: You cannot, she cannot say, "I can accept as many husband as required." That is not good.
Indian man (4): Two hundred years before. Two hundred years before. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...as you worship Durgā, then you have to sacrifice goat.
Indian man (4): Ah?
Prabhupāda: As soon as you worship Durgā...
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I know these people, this Nehru family. They were completely Europeanized. Outwardly for them... Even up to the last point of his life, if some European would come, he would immediately receive him. And if an Indian wants to see him, "Oh, it will be..." You will have to wait at least one. Everything London-made is very good. That was Jawaharlal Nehru's idea.
Indian: That was absolutely opposing the Sardar Patel. Anything he wrote to another white skin, "All right, let him be." Lenin, we see, after all. Lenin.
Prabhupāda: That is also not good. But these people, they are svadeśi, for country, but I know them very well.
Dr. Patel: No, he was right up to the end very conscious about this. Because of his Oxfordian education. I think he was in eternal hell, one of these things.(?) (break)
Prabhupāda: England. He was educated in England, but who can become...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is not unnatural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu tells this because this cannot be avoided. But by knowledge it can be avoided.
Dr. Patel: We were talking the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes, by knowledge. Yes. But "Because I am excited, therefore I have to do this," that is not good.
Dr. Patel: But then I found out the solution for this. As soon as you feel excitement... (break) Then you have nothing to do with it.
Prabhupāda: Therefore knowledge.
Prabhupāda: One has to practice. It will take some time. (break) ...yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā. One has to practice. That means his determination is not yet fixed up. Because he is very rich, he is thinking that "This is all right." That is another defect of becoming very much rich. Bhogaiśvarya prasaktānāṁ tayā upahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are too much attached to this material enjoyment and..., by which his consciousness is bewildered..." All these defects are there because he is too much attached to material enjoyment. Why don't you give him dress if he has no dress. This is not good. You have not marked it?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Gosvāmī.
Dr. Patel: "One who is lord of go."
Prabhupāda: Yes, senses. In that stage he cannot give up. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. When one sees that "This is better quality than the other," then he takes. Unless... Because superficially... Suppose because for becoming Vaiṣṇava, he has to undergo so many austerities. So ordinary man cannot find out that this is better life than that. So when he understands, "This service is not good; to serve Kṛṣṇa is good," then he can give up the service of māyā. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante. Just like an ordinary servant, he is serving in your house, but if he gets some more salary in other's house, he gives it up. That is required. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartante.
Prabhupāda: First of all, try to understand. A devotee is neither brāhmaṇa nor śūdra. He may act like a śūdra, but he is not śūdra. He may act like a brāhmaṇa; he is not brāhmaṇa. He is Vaiṣṇava. Just like gopīs. The gopīs, they are village cowherds women. They are, according to social construction, they are not very high class. They did not belong to the brāhmaṇa class. But their worship, method of worship, has been taken the highest. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū-vargeṇa. They were village girls, and practically their character was also not good. Because at dead of night they are going to Kṛṣṇa. But why they have been taken as the most topmost devotee of Kṛṣṇa? Because the love was so high class. It is the test, how much one has learned to love Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. Apparently he may appear as a brāhmaṇa, a śūdra or vaiśya. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. The only business is to see: sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adho... (SB 1.2.6). Aiye. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. That is wanted.
Prabhupāda: ...observing Śiva-rātri, Nanda Mahārāja and all the cowherds men, they increased their attachment for Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted.
Pancadravida: "After this incident, on a very pleasant night both Kṛṣṇa and His elder brother Balarāma, who are inconceivably powerful, went into the forest of Vṛndāvana." (break)
Prabhupāda: "Dressing is artificial. It is not required. Yes. This naked body is very nice." (break) No, you don't... You cannot be naga-bābā. That is not good. (break) If one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, all these rascaldom becomes charming. When one is Kṛṣṇa conscious these things does not appeal.
Pancadravida: "Kṛṣṇa's transcendental form, quali..."
Prabhupāda: But because they have surrendered, all sinful activities is counteracted. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). Anyone surrenders sincerely to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, immediately he becomes free from all reaction of sinful life. Because he is saved. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: "Don't worry." This is the process. So however one might have done or executed so many sinful activities, if he fully surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, then everything is counteracted immediately. But not that repetition, that "I surrender to Kṛṣṇa; then again I'll do some sinful activities and again I surrender." This business will not be allowed. This is called nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. That is the greatest sin, on the strength of Kṛṣṇa's mercy, to go on repeating sinful activities. That is greatest sin. Kṛṣṇa can excuse you-ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣa..., mā śucaḥ—but you don't make it business, that "I commit all sinful activities and surrender to Kṛṣṇa to counteract." No, this is not good. This will not be allowed. (break) ...but you cannot cheat him. Then you'll suffer.
Prabhupāda: He is confused because he was a kṣatriya, soldier. A soldier's duty is to fight with the enemy. So Kṛṣṇa was advising him, "The opposite party is your enemy. You are a kṣatriya. Why you are trying to become non-violent? This is not good." Therefore he says, "Actually I am now confused. So in confusion I cannot take the right conclusion. I therefore accept You as my spiritual master. You just give me the proper lesson." This is the point. So they were friends. Still, he was confused. So in chaotic condition, in confusion status of life, we must approach the person who is in full knowledge of the things. Just like you go to a lawyer, you go to a physician; similarly, every one of us in the material world, we are confused. Therefore we must go to the spiritual master who can give us real knowledge.
Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.
- yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas
- tat tad evetaro janaḥ
- sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute
- lokas tad anuvartate
- (BG 3.21)
Just like in America, the president Nixon is charged with so many offenses. So... This is not good. He is the head of the state, and he has been charged with so many pollutions. Then how people will follow exemplary character?
Prabhupāda: And now in the Western countries also the difficulty is arising. I do not know whether you are already, I mean to say, aware that so many boys, they are becoming hippies. They are reluctant to do anything. That is a very dangerous sign. If you... If unemployment, no engagement, that is not good for the country. Everyone should be employed. Everyone should be engaged in some service. That should be the policy of the government. And everyone should be happy, without any anxiety. That is good government. So many people unemployed, doing nothing, producing nothing. Is it not a problem?
Monsignor Verrozano: Somewhat, yes.
Prabhupāda: Seva means service. So service is offered to the superior. And to the inferior or subordinate, we offer our compassion. So similarly, as we are eager to give service, similarly, we should be eager to be compassionate. So it is not very good idea. Just like in India they say, daridra-nārāyaṇa. Some nation, that to give service to the human being, and cut the throat of the animals. This philosophy is not good.
Monsignor Verrozano: Yes. I have something in the Bhagavad-gītā. If I am not wrong, in the Chapter Eighteen of Bhagavad-gītā, verse sixty-four, there is the affirmation that God loves man, "You are beloved for Me." And in some cases, we consider this affirmation as the very core of Indian religiosity, and we appreciate very much this affirmation of love of God for man.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, not only that. The Communists... Everyone has got different propensity. And I have seen in Moscow. You cannot get foodstuff to your selection. That is forced. If I go to the market, I can purchase to my taste, to my selection. But if I have to purchase from the government store whatever nonsense thing they will supply, I will have to accept. Why? I want to eat something today. Why I will be forced to eat something else?
Bhagavān: That's not good?
Prabhupāda: That's not good.
Bhagavān: So in our community, when we grow things, or we have need of someone's services, how are these services distributed equally? Let's say we grow cauliflower, we grow peas, we grow wheat. Is it that each family must be responsible and take only what he needs? How is it distributed?
Yogeśvara: But what do we advise such women?
Prabhupāda: Whatever they, others women, they may take lesson from them that, "If these woman are suffering or these men are suffering, why should we marry?" There is a Bengali proverb, dekhe sekhe and tekhe sekhe (?). One who is intelligent, he can see what is happening, he becomes cautious. And one, when actually experienced, then he becomes cautious. Less intelligent. So if it is not good, why you are marrying? Why you are induced by sex life? Stop it by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you devote yourself, the whole life, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will not be agitated by any sex life. And that is yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. If one is actually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will deride, "Huh! Nonsense! What is this?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, advancement. The only remedy, prime remedy for all solution, is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we have to say. So answers are all right or not?
Yogeśvara: No, very nice. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And he will still get another low-grade body, more suffering. That he does not know. But still, he will do everything for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti na sādhu manye: (SB 5.5.4) "Oh, it is not good." Na sādhu manye yata ātmano' yam: "This kind of activities will cover your soul by body." "Well, this body is temporary. Don't bother." Then another body, rascal. This body is temporary, but you get another body, most abominable. Why you are doing like this? Asann api. Although this body is temporary, but why don't you understand that it is kleśada: It is always subjected to miserable condition of material life. Kleśada. This is kleśada, another body you get, kleśada. Any body you get, kleśada. Why do you get this? Stop these activities. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Swiss Devotee: Many, many.
Guru-gaurāṅga: We read in the papers, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that they did a survey among the Capucine priests and fifty percent felt that their spiritual life was hampered by the fact that they could not have intimate relations with women. And forty percent felt that they were not allowed enough freedom and that obedience was not good.
Prabhupāda: Not allowed in...?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Enough freedom.
Prabhupāda: What is that freedom?
Yogeśvara: Illicit principles. Sinful principles.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then other things will follow. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. They do not inquire. That means animal life. As soon as there is inquiry, jijñāsu, jñānī jijñāsu... They're not jijñāsu even. Neither jñānī. (pause) The path must be very old. The trees are very aged. (pause) (break)
Satsvarūpa: ...yesterday said, when you said that one must be pure before he approaches God, they said, "That's spiritual pride." They said, "That is not good to say first we have to be pure. Like egoism," they said.
Prabhupāda: They'll tolerate material egoism, "We are doing this humanitarian service." That they... And spiritual egoism he'll not. That I replied, that this is real egoism, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And I'm: "Ahaṁ dog asmi." (laughter) That is not very good pride. (break) Why not make one world? That I said to to that man. Why do they not do that? Everything belongs to God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good. (laughter) That is good, yes. "Blessings of adversity." That is blessing.
Yogeśvara: Blessings of...?
Prabhupāda: Adversity. Yes. Therefore, according to Vedic system, big, big king, they give up their kingdom and becomes a sannyāsī, mendicant, voluntary acceptance of adversity. This is good. To live very comfortably and forget God is not good business.
Devotee: How can a devotee be free from being attracted to this worldliness?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: How can a devotee be free...?
Devotee: But isn't that not good because the politicians nowadays, when they are running their campaign, they say so many lies and everything to the public, that "When I am elected I will do this and I will do that," and they do so many... They pay off so many people in order that they can become elected. So always the good persons are... I guess they also have to cheat in order to get in position, but usually the...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have stopped our political activities. It is not good. It will be hampering to our spiritual understanding.
Devotee: Because we will also have to do that.
Pṛthu: So she says that the man, by his intelligence, will go on, go on inventing some things which will destroy, and...
Prabhupāda: So is that very good intelligence? (German)
Pṛthu: So she says that this intelligence is actually not good. She says this intelligence...
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of getting better intelligence than the dog? (German) (break)
Haṁsadūta: ...like to have more, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: No.
Haṁsadūta: Hen.
Prabhupāda: Hen. The hen is giving egg and, by the backside, by the rectum, and eating by the mouth. So one man is considering that "This mouthpiece is expensive because I have to give to eat. Better cut it." So if the mouth is cut, then there will be no egg because it's a dead body. So this is not good logic, (laughing) that the expensive portion may be cut and the profitable portion may be kept. This kind of interpretation will not be helpful. If you accept the whole, this side and that side, then business will go on. (German)
Pater Emmanuel: In the Christian tradition...
Reverend Powell: You don't feel that...
Prabhupāda: And beyond that, sex, that is illicit sex.
Reverend Powell: And that is out.
Prabhupāda: That is not good.
Reverend Powell: What is your attitude to Jesus?
Prabhupāda: I have already explained in the meeting.
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Bali Mardana: I can talk to him.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Talk with clear brain. The idea is given. (break) ...be able to do it alone, or we shall go. Or even if he does not say, you go and all organize. It is very important thing. And things are going not right there, and you shall sleep here. That is not good.
Bali Mardana: So shall we also make protests?
Prabhupāda: No, first of all organize this. Then we shall protest.
Bali Mardana: Protest at the meeting.
Bahulāśva: Now they're making artificial milk also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bahulāśva: They're advertising. "It's just like milk without the sour taste, without the bitter taste."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are propagating that milk is not good for the (indistinct) natural milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some scientist came to see me in Melbourne. He was speaking like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was saying that milk is not good.
Jayatīrtha: Stool is good, but milk is not good. (laughter)
Umāpati: That's all right if you're a pig.
Bali Mardana: Rajasic.
Prabhupāda: Especially for devotee, too much eating is very, very bad. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). Too much eating is very bad.
Bali Mardana: They should only take what is necessary.
Prabhupāda: And too much collecting money also. That is also not good.
Kṛṣṇa-kānti: Too much what?
Prabhupāda: Collecting money.
Prabhupāda: This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva, that "These rascals are working like madmen." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Pramattaḥ means mad. And always doing mischievous, sinful activities. So this is not good. Because he does not know that for his mischievous sinful activities, he has got a body which is always miserable. So it will continue, to accept miserable body. Therefore it is not good. A doctor can see that "This man is infecting this disease and he will suffer." But the rascal man cannot understand that "I am infecting something and I'll have to suffer." (break) The karmīs, they are trying to become happy by improving this material condition. But he does not know that he is becoming implicated more and more. Because he'll have to accept the body. And there are so many varieties of body. (devotees laugh at something) This is childish. That, our Girirāja took some money.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful.
Guest: May I ask a question, please? Master, perhaps... It seems to me we have sort of misunderstood. These people is trying to inquire whether or not a sort of a mantram I would say invented here in the western hemisphere or a so-called master is or is not good for realization of the self. But I am thinking more in terms of the question, it is perhaps more suitable to make the question a question, not affirmation. "Who am I?" perhaps, is the best of the mantrams instead of affirming, "I am," because we cannot realize who I am.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you are basing your knowledge, "Perhaps." Therefore you are imperfect. "Perhaps." That means you are imperfect. Your statement will not be accepted. Because you are imperfect, you say, "Perhaps, maybe." So this is not knowledge. This is not knowledge. This is ignorance. As soon as you say, "Perhaps, maybe," that means you do not know what is, the actual thing is. Knowledge must be perfect. There is no question of "Perhaps, it may be." No, that is not knowledge. That is speculation. That is speculation. That is not knowledge. Because you are sitting, "Perhaps," therefore your knowledge cannot be accepted.
Satsvarūpa: He says sometimes religion is shameful.
Prabhupāda: Shame.
Satsvarūpa: Shameful.
Prabhupāda: What is that shameful?
Satsvarūpa: Shameful, something a... Not good. Uh, disgraceful.
Devotee (2): Ashamed.
Satsvarūpa: There is a false religion and there's... Sometimes religion is the most glorious thing.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no standard definition of religion. Sometimes this, sometimes that, like that. What is the definition...?
Rāmeśvara: They have missed that point.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Ekala īśvara kṛṣṇa ara saba bhṛtya. "Only master is Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is servant." Accept this principle and everything will be all right immediately. Immediately. If you study the whole Bhagavad-gītā, where is any word there which you can refute or which is not good for you? Study whole Bhagavad-gītā. All practical and very congenial for human civilization. Kṛṣṇa teaches from the very beginning, "First of all learn what you are. You are not this body. You are within this body." Now, who knows this? This is the first study. As soon as you understand that "I am not this body, I am within this body," immediate you understand what is spirit. Then your spiritual knowledge advances further. But these rascals, they do not know what is spirit, what is spiritual knowledge.
Devotee: They think that cows don't have a spirit.
Guest: Can the profit of the manufacture of something which is manufactured purely for profit be turned to good?
Prabhupāda: Yes, if he gives to Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna. He fought. He killed. Killing is not good business, but he killed on the advice of Kṛṣṇa, and he became a bhakta by killing. Kṛṣṇa said, bhakto 'si. And what did he do? He killed, that's all. This is an example. Of course, bhakta never kills. Kṛṣṇa... Arjuna was not willing to kill. But when he saw that "Kṛṣṇa wants it, so this is my first business. Never mind I shall go to hell," that is Kṛṣṇa conscious. "By killing my brother I may go to hell. It doesn't matter. But Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. That is my first business."
Prabhupāda: No, no. If one wants to follow Koran, let him follow strictly that. No halfway mixing.
Yoga student: Then preaching in Iran should be essentially to those people who are fallen away from their traditional path.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is fallen. They are simply amending and concoction. That is not good. Why they should amend? (break) ...himself in what relationship with God?
Yoga student: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.
Prabhupāda: No, what was his relationship? Just like Christ, he presented himself as the son of God. So what is the position of Muhammad?
Yoga student: He presented himself as a man, as considered by Muslims as the perfect man.
Dr. Movebhed: Yes, more or less.
Prabhupāda: That is ācārya. So ācāryavān puruṣo veda. Without following the ācārya, if we simply theorize, that is not good. Just like the same example: if you want to put some thesis, the university regulation is that he must be guided by three experienced professor. You cannot simply put forward your thesis without being guided by the experienced professors. That thesis will not be accepted. Similarly, here Arjuna directly hears from Kṛṣṇa. So he says that "You are Parabrahma. Now I understand." Now people may say that "You are accepting Him Parabrahma. Where is your authority? You are friend.
Prabhupāda: No. If one wants to follow Koran, let him follow strictly that. No halfway (indistinct).
Guest: Then preaching in Iran should be essentially to people who have fallen away from their traditional path.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is fallen. They are simply amending, concoction. That is not good. Why they should amend? Mohammed presented himself in what relationship with God?
Guest: With God? He presented himself as the last expression of the divine revelation in the West.
Jayatīrtha: But that... All temples... All the temples are in debt.
Prabhupāda: Why? That's not... Debts are very wrong. (?)
Jayatīrtha: Either they owe BBT money or they owe bank money.
Prabhupāda: That is not good. Debts should be... No debts. If any temple wants to make debt, it must be sanctioned by the GBC committee.
Jayatīrtha: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Make it clear.
Jayatīrtha: That's nice.
Prabhupāda: What is quarrel?
Jayatīrtha: ...the GBC man can solve it.
Prabhupāda: There is no question of quarrel. Quarrel is material.
Jayatīrtha: Yes. But it is the Age of Quarrel.
Prabhupāda: Quarrel is not good.
Jayatīrtha: The next point is to obtain reports from the temple presidents, financial reports, like this, to see that things are being looked up.
Prabhupāda: The general report should be submitted at least monthly.
Jayatīrtha: In India?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: This is the problem.
Prabhupāda: The India is membership, and the members, if they are dissatisfied, then? This is not good. So find out the way how this complaint can be solved.
Haṁsadūta: So does it mean that the BBT should take charge of the Life Membership program or to see that they're supplied the books?
Prabhupāda: No. Life Membership... Suppose you make one Life, he has to be supplied books.
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse of being cheating.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Rūpānuga: They cannot accuse us of cheating them.
Prabhupāda: It is not good at all. Why there is complaint?
Jagadīśa: So make the agenda.
Jayatīrtha: I have nine points on the agenda so far.
Jagadīśa: What is it?
Jayatīrtha: The...
Prabhupāda: The... The money matters should be dealt with the president, secretary and the treasurer, three men. Out of three, two should sign. And GBC's business is to see that things are going on, money matters. That's all. GBC is not supposed to deal directly. He has to inspect. That's all.
Atreya Ṛṣi: So I can cross this...
Prabhupāda: Just like... But the thing is, if the GBC and the president is the same man, that is not good. That is not good. The president should be separate. So the president, treasurer and secretary, they will deal directly, and GBC should inspect book, account, that it is done very nicely. That's all. You can question, "Why you have done this?" That's nice. Otherwise, in the..., it will be difficult to manage.
Rūpānuga: Yes. We don't want to become entangled in that money.
Prabhupāda: Ah!
Rūpānuga: We don't want to become entangled in that money.
Prabhupāda: Just like a diseased man. He is practiced to drink bitter medicine and pass stool on the bed and so many inconveniences, so if some of his friends says, "When you'll be cured, you'll be able to pass stool in the lavatory. You haven't got to, haven't got to pass stool..." Then he shudders: "Again I have to pass stool after becoming cured? Again I have to eat? No, no, this is not good. Make it zero." He has no idea what is the meaning of passing stool in healthy stage. It refreshes the body. We get good energy. That he cannot conceive. He thinks that "If there is passing of stool again, then it must be the same suffering as I am undergoing now in this condition."
Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna. Arjuna officially, he did not take sannyāsa. He was a gṛhastha, soldier. But when he took it very seriously, karyam—"Kṛṣṇa wants this fight. Never mind I have to kill my relatives. I must do it"—that is sannyāsa. First of all he argued with Kṛṣṇa that "This kind of fighting is not good, family killing...," and so on, so on, so on. He argued. But after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, when he understood that "It is my duty. Kṛṣṇa wants me to do it." Karyam. So in spite of his becoming a householder, a soldier, he's a sannyāsī. He took it-karyam. Karyam means "It is my duty." That is real sannyāsa. "Kṛṣṇa wants that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement must be spread. So this is my karyam. This is my duty.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I told him that you make some play for showing here in Vṛndāvana.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all right that the women are dancing?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Śrutakīrti: You said plays. He could do plays.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Women as far as possible should be no... That's not good.
Devotee (1): He spoke to me about it. He wants to do four performances here.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that dancing he wants to do or plays?
Devotee (1): Dancing.
Prabhupāda: With women?
Devotee (1): I don't know.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. Secular means government's duty is that "You call yourself a Hindu. Whether you are acting as Hindu? You call yourself as Muslim. Whether you are acting as Muslim?" This is government's duty. Government does not say or prefer that "You are Christian. It is not good. You become Hindu." No, that is not government's... You remain your Christian, but government's duty is that whether he is acting as Christian. This is government's duty. Not that you are acting like a something else, and you are calling yourself Christian. You are acting like a śūdra, and you are advertising yourself as a brāhmaṇa. So just like a, what is called, quack. If he writes, "Dr. something," that is punishable. But you are quack. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: So, some of the big men, past politician like Nandaji, they are also thinking very nicely. Now it is the time to coordinate all these thinkers on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā as we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That should be seriously taken. And another difficulty is that without any reference to the śāstra there are so many spiritual propagandist. That is not very good. That is not very good, not good at all. No question of very good. They are more or less atheist. They will not take, accept the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. They'll manufacture their own way. That will not help us. You must take the standard things. Then it will be successful. In my, this propaganda, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I am very much satisfied that I did not adulterate any instruction of the śāstra. And it is becoming very effective. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). Find out this verse. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya.
Prabhupāda: There is no question about oṁkāra there. Discuss on the verse. But oṁkāra is also Kṛṣṇa. Praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu. Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya praṇavaḥ sarva vedeṣu (BG 7.8). Kṛṣṇa says, "I am praṇavaḥ." So oṁkāra is not different than Kṛṣṇa. But oṁkāra is pronounced by the impersonalists. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa, when He says that "I am praṇavaḥ, I am oṁkāra," then where is the objection? They foolishly say that oṁkāra is better than Kṛṣṇa. There is no need of chanting "Kṛṣṇa." That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book.
Amogha: If we go up there, I don't think it will be there.
Prabhupāda: Some decomposed things? And this is not good for you. (pause) They fish this side?
Amogha: The birds? Seagulls.
Prabhupāda: That is really needed. Nobody is interested. Everyone comes to the city, the mercantile class. They are doing business, big, big skyscraper building, and they have artificial money, paper. And instead of eating food grains they are maintaining slaughterhouses. This is not good civilization. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Gaṇeśa: Thank you. Kṛṣṇa is the biggest cheat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, He is big in everything, but you should not imitate, because you are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He is very powerful. Before His power, everything becomes vāṇīshed. He remains powerful. But you cannot do that. "Kṛṣṇa is biggest cheater; therefore I shall become a cheater." That is not good policy. Then you will be finished. Just like the example is given that Lord Śiva drank the ocean of poison, and if you drink a drop, you will die. You cannot imitate the most powerful. That is not possible.
Jayadharma: You told Madhudviṣa Swami once in Sydney a few years ago that actually you're the biggest cheater because you're stealing away all our māyā.
Amogha: They say that homosex keeps the balance of things because...
Prabhupāda: Yes, fourth-class man can say anything wrong, bad, but we are not going to hear of it. A fourth-class man's philosophy, we will have to waste our time to hear them—that's not good. They are not even fourth class; they are animal class. Fourth class has got some position, but they are narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. So what is their philosophy, and who is going to spoil his time to hear about their philosophy? (break)
Paramahaṁsa: In that verse it says, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam. What is the difference between jñānam and vijñānam?
Madhudviṣa: We have not seen such a bird. (devotees laugh)
Prabhupāda: What you have seen? You have seen your father and mother, that's all. What you have seen? You are still in the womb of your mother. What you you have seen? You can simply falsely speculate, that's all. What you have seen? Are you seeing the stars now? Why you are not seeing? The stars are there, why you are not seeing?
Madhudviṣa: My eyes are not good enough.
Prabhupāda: Therefore if you have got imperfect eyes, what you can see? First of all you admit that you have got imperfect eyes. Then what you can see with your imperfect eyes? If you are a blind man, what is the use of telling, "I do not see." You are blind man, what you can see? First of all you admit that you are blind man, then talk of seeing.
Prabhupāda: No. No, this is spiritual life. Sex life is not spiritual life.
Jesuit: That I find so hard to accept because everything that God makes is good. When God makes a man...
Prabhupāda: Good, what is good for you is not good for me, one man's food is another man's poison.
Jesuit: But everything that God makes is good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, good for somebody. Just like stool, stool is good for the pigs not for the human being.
Hari-śauri: It seems to be very difficult if they are not very serious about anything...
Prabhupāda: No, that is missionary activities, that they do not understand, but you have to make them understand. They are not calling you, "I am suffering. Please come," but it is your business to go and let them know that "You are suffering. You take this method." That is the way of becoming very quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise, if you think, "They are not understanding, what is the use of going there? Let me sleep," that is not good. They are not understanding; still, you have to go. Then Kṛṣṇa will take that "He is laboring so hard for My sake." Never mind he is successful. It doesn't matter. But you are working hard for Kṛṣṇa.
Śrutakīrti: But if we kill the cow without it, while it is healthy, then it is very good to eat the meat.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but the argument is die. As soon as you kill, it is died. As soon as you take the fish out of the water it dies. So how you can say that dead animal is not good? It is dead. For argument's sake, "A dead animal is not good," but you make him dead. Then you eat. Where is the argument that dead animal is bad? You are eating dead. That means they are not even common sense. That is the rascaldom. Rascal means one who has no common sense even.
Prabhupāda: No, rocks, that is the last. Now what is the latest news?
Bali-mardana: They want to send a satellite to the other planets.
Prabhupāda: Moon finished?
Bali-mardana: Yes, it is not good for... It is too much money. They cannot afford it.
Guru kṛpā: It's nothing but rocks anyway there. They think it is nothing but rocks so why waste time, go to some other place.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Grapes are sour.
Indian guest: Yeah, they have it, but it is not that rampant. It is kind of suppressed a little bit.
Prabhupāda: At least, they know. They are taught by the culture, "This is not good." But here they do not know that, that the thinking of woman is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They think if you don't think of a woman, then that is not good.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You're abnormal.
Prabhupāda: He wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We cannot give up anything, but we are being trained up how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So give him some prasāda.
Prabhupāda: Take. (eating)
Dr. Mize: This is delicious.
Prabhupāda: Now you can take. Kṛṣṇa has given us so many nice things. Why should we kill the poor animals? That's not good. Because na samaḥ, there is no such vision, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. He is not a brāhmaṇa. He is giving the dog a bad name and hang it. Animal has no soul. What is this? Animal has no soul?
Bahulāśva: Sometimes they argue that we're killing the vegetables.
Prabhupāda: And there are persons, they want meat-eating. So for them these unimportant animals are recommended. But cow is very important animal. You get from its milk so many nutritious food. So apart from religious sentiment, from economic point of view, cow-killing is not good. And from moral point of view it is not good because you drink cow's milk, so cow is your mother. According to Vedic civilization, there are seven mothers.
Rādhā-vallabha: In New Jersey one time we were driving very fast to try and meet you at the airport, and a police officer pulled us over, and he was very angry. We were driving very fast. And he said...
Prabhupāda: No, you should not drive fast. (devotees laugh) No, no, this is not good.
Rādhā-vallabha: We had to pick you up at the airport, Prabhupāda, and we were late.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but fast, drive very fast, is risky.
Prabhupāda: There is no need of... (break)
Brahmānanda: Oh, Same situation of having a Negro government with a large Indian population. (break) ...will have to be gotten from inside the country and then sent to us here.
Jagatpuruṣa: Well, we would call Śeṣa Nārāyaṇa who is the speaker of the house and he would tell us that we could come.
Prabhupāda: On the whole, we should not take any risk. That is not good. Then we shall postpone everything. (break)
Brahmānanda: ...this Mr. Henderson, he is living, looking like a...
Prabhupāda: Hippie.
Brahmānanda: Yes, hippie.
Satsvarūpa: Sometimes in those mass killings pious men are killed also. At Kurukṣetra many pious men were killed?
Prabhupāda: Well, when there is killing, it is not that the pious men... But mostly they were saved. The Pāṇḍavas were saved. The five brothers, they remained. Now the moon is sour. Grapes are sour? (laughter) The jackal jumped over to catch some grapes, and when he fell, "Eh, what is the use of grapes? It is sour." The jackal said. So this is... Now they say there is, that is not good for him. "Let us go to Venus. (laughter) Moon is sour." And why you spent so much money? (break) ...stone man has come. That is the museum.
Brahmānanda: Stone?
Prabhupāda: How from stone...
Brahmānanda: Cupid is there, and it is marked "love."
Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) (To Harikeśa, who has been coughing throughout:) ...not taking any medicine?
Harikeśa: No.
Prabhupāda: This continuing is not good.
Harikeśa: I stopped eating anything but fruit, and that's what I did. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...examined your chest?
Harikeśa: No.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you should examine your chest. Some congestion in the lungs. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, around our society now there are many devotees who are following different kinds of diets. They read some book and they get some idea. They follow...
Prabhupāda: This is not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And one of the things I see about the unique feature of all the diets that they have in common is that the devotees more or less stop taking the prasādam which is offered to the Deity.
Prabhupāda: This is not good. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It seems to me that one of the important aspects of bhakti-yoga is to depend upon Kṛṣṇa for one's maintenance.
Prabhupāda: And becoming influenced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is nonsense. This should be stopped.
Sudāmā: A lot of devotees, they take these fasting for twenty days, thirty days, fasting.
Prabhupāda: That means they are manufacturing their own way of life. That's not good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One of our best devotees, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he recently left our association. And one of the... I know the biggest reason is that he was fasting completely from almost all foods for thirty days.
Prabhupāda: But fasting is good. If one can fast, that is good. That is tapasya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. But see, they read these books in addition.
Prabhupāda: Fasting is not bad. If one can fast, that is very good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now that we know, we'll take action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Revatinandana is becoming less and less spiritually. He had good potency, but he is losing that.
Devotee (1): You said that if we fast and we can't do our work and we become weak, than this is not so good.
Prabhupāda: This is not good, "not so" not, absolutely bad.
Devotee (1): So, our devotional service comes first?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I say still.
Sudāmā: You said that that is one of our greatest weapons against māyā, is Kṛṣṇa-prasāda. (break)
Yadubara: I'm a good example that these diets are not very good. (laughter) I can testify.
Brahmānanda: Me too.
Prabhupāda: The diets are not good or you are not good?
Yadubara: Oh. (break) ...for one year to alter the diet in so many ways and it never worked. It was useless. (break)
Devotee (2): I think that's for maintaining the right depth to the lake. I think they have a pump house down here, and they maintain the depth of the lake by these things.
Prabhupāda: Water is supplied or...?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...because that many people are involved.
Prabhupāda: Dieting, the best thing is to take prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Definitely. It's clear cut. My only feeling about...
Prabhupāda: And if our... Pushed on our men... The thing is they supply more spices, and especially that mustard. This is not good. This is prohibited.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be mild, prasādam.
Prabhupāda: Practically no spices. Simply little cumin. And this turmeric. Turmeric you get from India, whole turmeric. This powdered turmeric is very, very bad.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unhealthy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very unhealthy.
Prabhupāda: It is very cheating. Any powdered spice is not good.
Harikeśa: Asafoetida also.
Prabhupāda: Everything. As soon as it is powder, they will mix with all rubbish things. And it is very easy to cheat you. You are susceptible for being cheated. So they take advantage and cheat you. So best thing is to import spices from India whole and either get it powdered or during time of cooking you make them paste. That is first class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Crushing.
Prabhupāda: We don't say that. We don't say that. We say that you follow any religious system. Doesn't matter. But you understand God and love Him. That is our propaganda. We do not say that "You are Christian. This is not good. You come here." We do not say. Why say? Everything is... But our proposition is that either you are Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: There's this one fellow, Mr. Ted Patrick. He goes and he kidnaps the devotees. The parents pay him $1,000 up to $25,000...
Prabhupāda: Ācchā.
Jayatīrtha: ...depending on how wealthy they are. He kidnaps them and tries to brainwash them that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not good.
Devotee: He calls it deprogramming. He says... He tries to deprogram the devotees that we have simply been hypnotized by chanting. So he has to snap us out of it by deprogramming. And he uses very severe techniques, very harsh.
Prabhupāda: And the parents are inducing him.
Prabhupāda: No, what is the use of compromise if there is no good result?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Someone who compromises, he actually wants followers.
Prabhupāda: That is not good. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu decried, na dhanaṁ na janam, "I don't want these followers." What is the use of follower if he does not follow? (break) ...idam. Everything is sufficient, complete. Why they are embarrassed with incompleteness? Everyone is trying to adjust incompleteness, but the Vedic information, "Everything is complete." That means lacking knowledge. The car is complete. One who does not know to drive, he will find it incomplete, "Where to push on, this way, that way." He does not know how to drive the car.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is our logic.
Gurudāsa: But also you said once that we feel it. That is our proof.
Prabhupāda: No, feel, you may wrongly feel because you are imperfect. That is not good argument. Our argument is that the message is coming from the most authorized personality; therefore it is perfect. And we receive guru-paramparā. That is our process. Evam paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The rājarṣis, means very, very, big, big, stalwart persons, they accept it. Just like Arjuna gives evidence that "I accept You. You are Parabrahma." So he, next line, he says, "It is not that I am saying. But big, big personalities like Vyāsadeva, he has said. Nārada has said. Asita has said. And You are personally saying, so I have no doubt." This is our process. (break) ...Upendra, Upendra has not come? (break) ...knowledge is always imperfect.
Prabhupāda: Suppose you have written some letter to somebody, and he cannot understand. So if he consults somebody, that "What he has written?" Then that man must be your confidential person, who can understand your language. Even if I cannot understand what you have written, then I have to consult a person who understands you. But I cannot give my independent interpretation. That is not good. That is foolishness. But that is going on. They are thinking, "I am a big scholar. I can give my own interpretation." That is wrong.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate goal.
Prof. Hopkins: But is it easier or better to be a devotee of Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Hopkins: A Kṛṣṇa bhakta than to be a Christian, say?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything genuine is easy. Anything hodgepodge, that is not good. We don't recommend hodgepodge.
Prof. Hopkins: So the advantage then, or the greater value is that it is focused and clear rather than a hodgepodge where the goal and the activities are not clear.
Prabhupāda: The hodgepodge has killed the whole world, that so many pseudo-religious systems. People are misled.
Prabhupāda: I have seen it, all traffic stopped. So this kind of freedom has no meaning. It is involving oneself with the strict laws of māyā. There is no freedom. And just like a child. If he becomes free from the parents, it is not good; it is dangerous. His life is at risk. If a child without the help of the parents go on the street, is... That freedom is nice? That kind of freedom. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "Whatever little freedom you have got, just surrender that freedom to Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). (to someone:) You can come forward.
Prabhupāda: Maybe.
Brahmānanda: Because here it is much hotter than it was in California.
Jagadīśa: The prasādam you're getting is all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Not very all right. Constantly change of hand is not good.
Brahmānanda: Yes. Upendra can cook for you? Just like Śrutakīrti, he used to use the cooker. He would put up the vegetables and then give massage. And then after massage he would just chaunce the vegetables. He was able to do everything himself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone was doing that. So we shall go or wait?
Satsvarūpa: After New Orleans, all your stops are in northern. Detroit and Canada. It won't be so hot.
Nityānanda: Yes.
Jagadīśa: There is one big watermelon on the vine up there. Perhaps it's ready to eat.
Prabhupāda: We are getting similar land, 600 acres, in Hyderabad.
Nityānanda: We can go this way, here. This is all our machinery here.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So already some machine idle. You had to spend so much, but they are lying idle. That is not good. That is the defect of machine. If you cannot ply it, then it is dead loss.
Brahmānanda: If you cannot what?
Prabhupāda: It is dead loss if you cannot work with the machine.
Brahmānanda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no, unless our men are trained up, why you should allow to stay here and to wife. We want trained up men, not third-class picked-up. We want men who will follow the rules and regulations and fully trained up. Otherwise we don't want. We don't want ordinary karmīs and... And if he agrees to be trained up, then we'll take. Otherwise what is the use of bringing some useless men? He must agree to produce his own food, and work. Our rules and regulations, he must follow. Then it will be ideal community. Otherwise, if you bring from here and there some men and fill up, that is not good thing. This is a training institution, to become devotee.
Upendra: I don't know. I can't say firsthand, but from the man who lived there, one of the householders who lived there, he said powdered milk...
Prabhupāda: I don't think so.
Devotee (1): I have heard that.
Prabhupāda: No. This is not good. Ghee should be prepared where there is no more use. The Indian village, simply by keeping cows, they... Just like Nanda Mahārāja was keeping cows. Similarly there are many villages. So the system is: they have got a big pan, and whatever milk is collected, put into that pan. It is being warmed. So they drink, the whole family members. They drink milk whenever they like. So whatever milk remains at night, they have to convert it into yogurt. The next day they use milk and yogurt also, as he likes. Then, after converting the milk into yogurt, still, it remains. It is stocked. So when there is sufficient old yogurt, they churn it and then butter comes out.
Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) It may cost two cent. And you have got your sugar also. In this way organize. Avoid machine. Keep everyone employed as brāhmaṇa, as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. Nobody should sit down. Brāhmaṇas, they are writers, editors, lecturers, instructors, worshiping Deity, ideal character. They have no anxiety for food, for clothing. Others should supply them. They haven't got to work. Sannyāsī is always preaching, going outside. In this way keep everyone fully engaged. Then it will be ideal. Otherwise people will criticize that we are simply eating and sleeping, escaping, so many, so many. And actually that is the position. Unless one is fully engaged, oh, that is not good. That is tamo-guṇa. Tamo-guṇa, and rajo-guṇa very active, and sattva-guṇa, intellectual activity. Both of them, active, only tamo-guṇa, not active. (indistinct) Tamo-guṇa means sleeping and laziness. These are the symptoms of tamo-guṇa. Every saintly man can avoid these two things—laziness and sleeping. Of course, as much you require, sleeping allowed, not more than... And keep everyone active, man or woman-all. Then it will be ideal society.
Prabhupāda: So why that eight thousand was not utilized to finish this business? BBT might be delayed, but what is this? Everything is unfinished. Huh? The doors are neither colored, neither painted, neither polished. As you have no money. And you are getting money and all going to the belly. So do rightly. You are so big, big heads. Baro baro badare baro baro pet laṅka dingake mata kare het: "Big, big monkey, big, big belly-Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Huh? With big belly a monkey comes forward, and if you ask him, "Jump over like Hanumānji," finished, belly finished. These are Bengali words. Baro baro badare baro baro pet laṅka dingake mata kare het. "I cannot do it." And why you have got so much belly? So this is not good. Make plan. You'll go on plan-making. Oh, you'll never be done. What can be done? I want to get rid of the management, but when I see, I have to see the management, how can I remain stopped? As soon as I see things are mismanaged, I have to say. I am not dumb. So this is the... And you report that "Everything is first class." What is this first class? Do you know meaning of first class? This is first class?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual life means to end all kinds of suffering. That is spiritual life. Not that I get free myself from this kind of suffering and I accept that kind of suffering. This is not good conclusion. Atyantika-duḥkha. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). This place is duḥkhālayam, full of miseries. And Kṛṣṇa is canvassing, "Why you are suffering? Come to Me." This mercantile community, they are earning money for mitigating suffering, but for earning money they are accepting any means. In future he is creating field of another suffering. That he does not know. He thinks, "Now, if I get money somehow or other, my present sufferings will be mitigated." But he does not know that he is creating another field of suffering.
Brahmānanda: In the next life.
Prabhupāda: The solution is there.
Dhanañjaya: ...without referring to the Vedic philosophy.
Prabhupāda: The solution is there. Take it. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dhanañjaya: They're so much implicated by sex life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Gradually they'll become ... understand that this is not good. Therefore gṛhastha āśrama is allowed under rules and regulation. The purpose is to restrict sex life.
Brahmānanda: The wife of the President, she recently said that sex life before marriage is good because it will reduce the divorce rate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If everyone is prostitute then where is the question of divorce? (laughter)
Nitāi: There's also no question of marriage.
Prabhupāda: That I am explaining. The day and night is that pig is working. That I am explaining. Then what is the difference between the pig and me if I am also working hard like that pig? Huh?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no difference.
Prabhupāda: Then why you say you are advanced civilization? That is forbidden. Kaṣṭan kāmān na arhati. It is not desirable; it is not good. You are given this body different from this pig because you will live peacefully and happily. Why should you accept kaṣṭan kāman, so hardship? Actually they do not want to work hard. Otherwise why the proprietor, the capitalist, they leave the factory and go to a solitary place? Why does he go?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't find any happiness even in the hard work.
Prabhupāda: His father-in-law?
Kartikeya: Father-in-law. P.M. Patel. (break) They were trying to arrange if you'll come. (break)
Girirāja: One boy said he wants to join.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they should join. All will go to hell. That is not good. At least one or two may be saved. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Passerby: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Rāma.
Harikeśa: They made those nice buildings in Delhi, too.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, and everything good. Simply heart was not very good.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Heart.
Prabhupāda: "Only for Englishmen," "Only for Englishmen." Still that policy is going on here. That is not good. When one takes shelter of you, you must give him proper protection. That liberality is not there.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They would make the people dependent upon them and then exploit them, yes?
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. Black men. The Indians, they cannot? They can?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, Indians don't need pass. The Indians, however, they were only allowed to live where they were born. They aren't allowed to move around. But this year they finished that law. Now the Indians can live anywhere in South Africa in Indian areas. They can move around to different cities. Before this year they weren't allowed to do it.
Prabhupāda: So post... (break) ...service is not good?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it is fairly good. But the Africans, they are so many they have to queue up. I don't think, in America, that the American negroes would be able to queue up and wait as patiently as these people. I think they have a little...
Prabhupāda: That's nice. That is nice.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't have a welfare state here.
Prabhupāda: Why? That is not good. People will be lazy. In special cases the government may give some help, not that the bachelor daddies, and getting welfare, all the girls, and going to be prostitutes. In America they have created purposefully prostitutes. They know they will get money, and they have illicit sex. That's all. The social condition is not good.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You can go down by the strand. (break) ...parks here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but they open up later.
Prabhupāda: She was paid for that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it facilitated our preaching work. At first, I was against the idea, but I found it was good.
Prabhupāda: No, it was not good to give, keep young unmarried girl.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She is married with children. She is older. Her husband was murdered.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Prabhupāda: Why not stop it, botheration? That you cannot, because animals. Because animal civilization, they cannot do it. Kaṇḍutive manivasi viṣaheta dhīraḥ. Why don't you teach them to become dhīraḥ, sober—"Let me tolerate this itching sensation"—brahmacārī? That teaching is not good. You do it repeatedly, suffer, and suffer consequences. And to stop it they suffer in so many ways, suffering, suffering. Bahu-duḥkha bhajaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Sex life, illicit or legal, the after-effect is suffering. Even it is not illicit—it is legal—then to take care of the wife or the children, for their education, for their upliftment and so on, so on, so on—suffering. And if it is illicit, then these sufferings: you commit sinful activities, kill the child, contraceptive, with the abortion, go to the doctor, pay, and so on, so on.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. He has to tax his brain. Kṛṣṇa has given advice, everything: "Divide the society into four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra." And then the brāhmaṇas should give nice advice, teacher. The kṣatriyas should govern, and the vaiśyas should produce food and give protection to the cows, and if there is excess, then trade. And śūdras should help, worker. Here I see the Europeans, they are working as the kṣatriyas, government, and the Indians they are working as vaiśya, and the Africans, they are as śūdras. But where is brāhmaṇa? There is no brāhmaṇa; therefore it is not good. It will suffer. And if they accept, the government men accept our advice and do accordingly—we don't want government post, but we can give good advice how to govern—then everyone will be happy. That they are losing. There is no good head. They are simply thinking in their animal way, "Why the Indians should come here?" And the Indians are, "Why whites are neglecting us?" This is going on because there is no good engagement. So this is essential, that the society should be divided into four classes of men: the first-class men-lazy intelligent; second-class men-busy intelligent; and third-class men-lazy fool; and fourth-class men-busy fool.
Prabhupāda: This is perfection of life, that...
- ataḥ puṁbhir dvija-śreṣṭha
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanusthitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
You may do whatever occupational duty you are... But you have to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then your everything is perfect. And if you satisfy your senses, then you are going to hell. This is the position. Therefore it is... Sva-karmaṇā tam abhyarcya (BG 18.46). Even that karma is abominable, sa-doṣam api na tyājet (BG 18.48). "You go on with your work. Even there is some fault, it doesn't matter, but you satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Then it is perfect." Just like Arjuna did. The fighting is not good business, but he satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Therefore by fighting, he became a great devotee-sva-karmaṇā. He did not leave his position as a kṣatriya, as a gṛhastha, but he... Karisye vacanam tava: (BG 18.73) "Yes. In spite of my not being inclined to fight, because You are asking, I'll do it."
Prabhupāda: Yes. You know him, this boy? He's a great-grandson of Henry Ford. He has contributed to our society not less than two crores of rupees.
Dr. Patel: He has got money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: And Chapkhanna(?) cannot be very not good. Not very good. Your printing is wonderful. From where... Where is that place? From Japan?
Prabhupāda: America and Japan. We want wonderful books.
Dr. Patel: Very good.
Yaśomatīnandana: "That is because I did not know in the past that I was, I am a spirit soul. But now I know that I am spirit soul."
Prabhupāda: But you did not know in the past. So you were a fool in the past. You are fool now also. Where is your advancement?
Yaśomatīnandana: "Now I know that I am a soul. I am not this..."
Prabhupāda: Simply by knowing soul is not good. Why you have got this body? Why everyone wants a king's body or a very nice body? Why he gets a dog's body? What is the reason? Everyone wants: "I may have a very good body so that I can enjoy." But why he is baffled? He gets a cat's body, dog's body, insect body, tree's body. He has also body, but he is standing there for hundreds of years. He cannot move an inch. So why you have got this facility of this body that you can move, you can cut, but he cannot protest? He is also body. And what is he? Who?
Yaśomatīnandana: "It is because of my past karma."
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why don't you arrange for that? You have to arrange. Yes. (break) ...king. Their constitution, first word is "the king can do no wrong." Yes, that is the Vedic system. Suppose a king beheads somebody by his own sword, as it was being done. Nobody can charge him that "Without any trial he has killed this man." No. Whatever is done... Just like we take Kṛṣṇa, apāpa viddham. Kṛṣṇa is never touched with any sinful activities. Apāpa-viddham. Tejiyasam na doṣaya (SB 10.33.29). Just as the sun, because it is very, very powerful, nothing can infect it. These are the dangers. (Hindi?) Of course, if you want to keep one in very exalted post, at the same time, if you want to find fault with him, then that is not good. That is not good. That is also stated, that arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. If somebody thinks that the Deity is made of stone and he criticizes, that is not allowed. If one thinks spiritual master as ordinary human being, that is not allowed. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhir guruṣu nara-matiḥ. So those who are in highly exalted post of the state, you cannot find out fault with him. That is real Vedic way. Otherwise, if he is taken as ordinary citizen, then he is... What is the meaning of his exalted post?
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You cannot find out fault with him. As like in the court, if you find out some fault with the judge, you will be punished immediately—"Contempt of court. You cannot do that." It will be punished, because while he is on the seat of the judge, if somebody finds out fault, then his position will be lower. That is not good. I think the judgment is right. Three persons—the president, prime minister, and the speaker—cannot be, what is called?
Indian man (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Parliament can do that "We have no faith." What is called? "No confidence." "No confidence resolution." The Parliament has not done. "No confidence." So how the court can decide? (break) An open fact that this election... All elections are done illegally. So why this poor prime minister is captured? Everyone does. (Hindi) (break) Military police.
Lokanātha: Prabhupāda? If we chant more than sixteen rounds, so how can we know whether we are imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura or following his footsteps?
Prabhupāda: Imitation is also good. If you imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura, that is also your great fortune, even if you imitate. (break) imitating, it does not mean you are condemned. Even if you imitate, that is also good. (break) If you have some other business and if you say, "Now I am imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura, I cannot do it," that is very bad. "I am busy in imitating Haridāsa Ṭhākura." That is not good. That is very bad. (break)
Brahmānanda: If the devotees are asked for service they say, "Oh, I have to chant."
Prabhupāda: "I am imitating." Yes. "I am imitating Haridāsa. This is my first business." That is very bad.
Haṁsadūta: They will say, "We have no evidence, no evidence of..."
Prabhupāda: Evidence is there. Still, you are so rascal. Evidence is you were a child. That is the evidence. Where is that body? A very simple evidence, but these rascals are so dull, they cannot understand.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept what is good for their sense gratification, and what is not good, they won't accept.
Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? (break)
Harikeśa: Everything is unmanifest in the beginning, manifest in the middle, and unmanifest at the end. So why should I care for anything in this lifetime?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They must cooperate.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) The problem that these foreign, some of these foreign devotees that have come lately, they have been such loose devotees that the temple presidents, they want to get rid of them; they are sending them to India. Three people came from Rūpānuga's zone; and they were all useless devotees. They won't listen. They just ran away from Bombay. So I wrote a very strong letter to Rūpānuga Prabhu. I said, you know, they should screen the devotees before they send them to India. What they are doing is they are sending their rejected devotees to India. If any devotee is not good in their zone they say, "Okay, we'll send them to India." But here we have such big projects that we need devotees who will follow the rules strictly and who will listen to authorities.
Prabhupāda: So tell them. If they have rejected and you also reject them, where they will go? Hm?
Prabhupāda: Who said?
Hari-śauri: Well, I understood that that verse, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas (BG 3.21), that was referring to Lord Rāmacandra.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is referred, but whatever Rāmacandra says, you should do that. You should not imitate. There are two words: following and imitating. Imitation is not good. Following is good. Yad yad ācarati zreṣ... You can... That I have already explained. Can you construct a bridge on the ocean? You are claiming, yad yad acarati. Can you do this? Then why do you say like that? You cannot imitate. You can follow only. "Because Rāmacandra ate meat, so I am eating meat. I become Rāmacandra." And why don't you construct a bridge on the ocean?
Akṣayānanda: So actually, perfect kings, they may have eaten meat? Perfect kings...
Lokanātha: For detachment you suggest they remain separate.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless they are separated, it is very difficult to advance in spiritual consciousness. That is the whole Vedic system. Gradual. First of all, brahmacārī, he is educated very nicely that this is not good to marry and enter into a family life. And in spite of education, if he is still inclined, then he is allowed to marry. This is a concession. And that is for a few days, few years. Then compulsory separation from the family life. Vanaprāstha. At that time, wife is allowed to stay with the husband, but finally they are separated, sannyāsa. Wife should go home, remain with their children. That's all.
Lokanātha: So when they are gṛhastha, they make advancement?
| Page Title: | Not good (Conv. 1967 - 1975) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, JayaNitaiGaura |
| Created: | 30 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=195, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 195 |