Expressions researched:
"never able"
|"never be able"
|"not able"
Prabhupāda: No. There are informations. Somebody trying to enter in the heavenly planet was opposed because he was not qualified.
Reporter: So then because of this example are you saying that if earth people were able to land on the moon that they would be...?
Prabhupāda: First of all, my first conviction is they will never be able. But even they are able, I do not know how they will be easily received.
Reporter: You do not know how?
Prabhupāda: They will easily admitted.
representative is disobeyed—"Get out immediately." Kṛṣṇa is very strict.
Guest (6): (unclear) ...From tomorrow he was not able to get (unclear)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see. Yes. Therefore in our system Vaiṣṇavāparādha is the greatest offense, to commit offense at the lotus feet of a Vaiṣṇava, and spiritual master is to be considered the first Vaiṣṇava. If there is aparādha, that is great, greatest offense. That will spoil the whole spiritual life. These are stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. In Teachings of Lord Caitanya you'll find.
Guest (6): In yesterday's paper I read that somebody donated some land to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No. He has proposed to donate; not he has done. Where you learned this?
Guest (6): In that (unclear)
Prabhupāda: Yes, somebody has promised. Somebody has promised.
Śyāmasundara: A person's knowledge in the material world will always be imperfect no matter how much he may advance in scientific knowledge, he'll never be able to solve the problems of birth, death, disease and old age.
Dr. Weir: Yes. But I mean the American's I believe, they would say, "Of course, but so what? You can live without a country." If you start worrying about whether you'll ever be able to comprehend the intellect, you will really not get through the day.
Śyāmasundara: But the goal of life, being to become satisfied with my life, is not meant in that way.
Dr. Weir: Oh, I agree that to be satisfied with life is to cut down your desire for omniscience to be satisfied that you can only hope to do quite not, not, not all of the things you'd like to do, to comprehend quite not, not all of the things that are possible. If you are content with that you may be content to play. Otherwise you'll be one of these dreadful people that become paranoics. Because the world only pressures you (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Contentment... The death is there. If I, somehow or other, make a compromise, that is different thing. But I don't like to die. There is old age. I don't want to be old, but if I make a compromise that is a different thing. But my desire is not to become old, not to become attacked by disease, not to die. These are my desires. So I can make some compromise if unable to solve the problem. That is a different thing. But these are the problems.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The influence of the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, propaganda. That is the cause of India's cultural falldown. These Britishers simply made propaganda that "Whatever you have got in India, this is all allegory, fiction. These śāstras are nothing. But now you are learning from us England's work in India, that is your real... You are becoming civilized now. Otherwise, you are in the utopia, and all these śāstras, throw it out." Because that was Lord Macauley's policy. Lord Macauley was sent to report how Indians can be governed nicely. So he reported that if you keep the Indians as Indians, you will never be able to govern them, because they are superior. You make propaganda that they are inferior and they will imitate you and then you can... That they did.
Jayatīrtha: The Indians would never be able to compete on the Britishers' platform.
Prabhupāda: Nicely. What is your credit?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to, they want to be very proud that they'll be able to do it outside the womb.
Prabhupāda: But that's all right. At least you are not able to do it now. But where is the credit because it is already being done.
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the nature's test tube.
Brahmānanda: They're just doing it in a more difficult and expensive way.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: When somebody does like that, people will give him Nobel prize.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). A big animal is being praised by dogs, and hogs, camel, monkeys. So they're getting Nobel Prize from dogs, hogs, camels. They're not getting Nobel Prize from any sane man. That is stated. Śva-viḍ. Śva means dog. Viḍ-varāha means the stool-eater, hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel. And kharaḥ means ass. So they're being praised by these classes of animal. They're not human being. If anyone gives Nobel Prize to such rascals, that means the man, the committee, who is giving the Nobel Prize to him, they are composition of these animals, dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. According to Bhāgavata. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think I have explained it.
Karandhara: The Russian scientists are very proud in their working, and they're atheistical. But still they're not able to produce enough food. Every year, there's not enough food.
Prabhupāda: No. There's not enough food. Yes. I have experienced it. You cannot get food as you like. What government supplies, you have to accept. That's all. And that is rubbish, all rubbish. Generally, they supply meat. No fruit, no vegetable, no rice, no, nothing. You cannot get. You simply eat meat. That's all. And milk is available. This is their arrangement. And in all store, lines. You have to ask, even if you want to take meat only, you cannot go and immediately purchase. You have to wait for three hours, control. This is their position. No bank. No motor car. No taxicab. Simply... There are simply symbolic. And people are poverty-stricken so much that one taxi driver, he was trying to cheat us. They have no sufficient money. So they saw us, that: "Here is a foreigner, Indian and American. Let me cheat." This is their position. Just like India. India, being poverty-stricken, they also cheat. Of course, cheating is a disease. But especially those who are poverty-stricken, generally, they cheat, they steal. No character. And all women are engaged for sweeping, fat, fat women.
Student (1): Is that what you're trying to do in your movement?
Prabhupāda: No, my movement... I am talking of yoga syst... What is my movement, that we shall discuss later on. First of all the question was the yoga. You asked me that. Yoga means to control the mind and the senses. So if one is not able to control the mind and senses, he does not know what is the meaning of yoga. That... You read Bhagavad-gītā? Bring Bhagavad-gītā.
Revatīnandana: Do you understand the necessity of controlling the mind and the senses? Can you see why it is necessary?
Student (1): Yes. Sort of. Not to the full extent I don't see how it's necessary to a full extent, because I can't control the mind and senses.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Call Pradyumna.
Student (1): I don't follow at all...
Prabhupāda: Then you'll never be able to follow.
Revatīnandana: Now, just see, the revealed scriptures...
Prabhupāda: No, no revealed scripture... Just like why do you accept the queen as the supreme? Why?
Students: We don't.
Prabhupāda: Oh, then, then you are not very sane.
Student (1):. Yeah, but why, there's a thousand...
Prabhupāda: You do. You say, "I do not," but you do so. You are... By law you are obliged to do so. If you say publicly, then you will be something else.
Prabhupāda: Make show. So we should not increase the show very, very much. Show shortcut show. That's all. Real business is... Āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi sahajiyā, sakhībhekī, smārta, jāta-gosāñi, they have been condemned by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, smārta and jāta-gosāñi. Smārta-paṇḍita, very serious about performing ceremonial rituals, they are called smārtas. This Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, also Vaiṣṇava-smṛti, that is also imitation of smārtaism. It is called smṛti. So at least in Europe and America, they will never be able to take all these things. The things should be made shortcut; at the same time, they should be successful. So that is chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, depending on... As soon as we have got some time, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Either loudly or silent... As far as possible loudly; if not possible, silently. But the tongue must go, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. The tongue must work. And as far as possible, should be heard... That is... And officially, krkshaharama (Prabhupāda chants very fast with words running into each other indistinctly). Not like that (chants again like that) Not like that. That will not... Every word should be distinctly chanted and heard, not official. So stress on this point.
Prabhupāda: Spirit soul, new or old there is. But if you can prove by changing the heart you can increase the duration of life, then you can catch the spirit soul.
Karandhara: That they're not able to do.
Prabhupāda: That is their nonsense.
Bali Mardana: None of them have lived very long.
Prabhupāda: No, they cannot be. Because by karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior arrangement, karmaṇā, you have got this body. So you have to live within this body certain age. So if you change the body, new, that doesn't mean you prolong your life. That is not possible. It is the duration of life, that is considered. They are thinking by changing the heart they will increase the duration of life. That is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is some sort of artificial transmigration?
Prabhupāda: Yes, like that. That transmigration taken... That is already explained in Bhagavad-gītā. Just like a baby becomes a child, child becomes boy, boy becomes youth, like that. Transmigration it is going on continually. This is another type of transmigration. So it is a fact that by changing the heart the duration is not...?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is why the scientists are saying that God didn't give us everything so that we can make very happy.
Prabhupāda: Then God is there. Accept. Then why do you say there is no God? Then God is life. Then everything comes from life. You have to accept. That is our proposal. If they accept that "God has not given us the capacity," then they are intelligent. They are accepting God.
Karandhara: Well, they say, "God hasn't given us everything because we are not able to live forever here."
Prabhupāda: Why? That means God is controller. You are controlled. You admit this.
Yaśomatīnandana: If these people are allowed to live forever then they will make this place more than a hell, worse than hell.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) God has given them everything actually, to live peacefully and try to understand God, but that they will not do. They will do something to try to forget God. That is their aim.
Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, is it true that if a person is very sinful, he reduces some years from his life? If a person is very, very sinful, extremely sinful, then he reduces some...
Prabhupāda: Reduce or increase, what is the profit?
Prabhupāda: It is done already; otherwise where the water came? You do not know who did it. That is your ignorance.
Hṛdayānanda: So it just enviousness. They're just envious.
Prabhupāda: Foolishness. Enviousness means one must be able. But they are not able. Simply foolishness.
Bali Mardana: They have created artificial gems, like...
Prabhupāda: Just like you are a powerful man. I am a powerful man. I become envious. That is allowed. But I'm not powerful, I'm trying to imitate you, it is foolishness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they're saying that God didn't give me all the knowledge to do, how to make this water.
Prabhupāda: Because He wanted you to remain a fool. He wanted. Because you are atheist, He wanted that you shall remain ever fool. That is God's business. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān yoniṣu (BG 16.19). These atheistic class, they remain always fools. Kṛṣṇa gives him birth in such a family, in such a country, in such a posi..., that he remains fools. He remains always fool. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Govardhana: There are many people who come like that to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They seem to experience a taste, and then they go away and everything seems to be lost. What is their...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they...
Govardhana: ...position, if they are not able to stick to it?
Prabhupāda: Just like a disease. Somebody cures very quickly, somebody cures, takes some time, according to the, what is called, acuteness of the disease. Somebody dies, somebody falls down. It is a treatment. Just like some of our students in Hawaii, due to bad association, they've fallen down. But whatever sincere service one has given, that will never be lost. That's a fact. It will again revive. For the time being, as it is said by Arjuna, kala-karma-tamoruddham. (?) Just like the sky is clear. It may be covered immediately by some cloud. And again the cloud is removed, the sky is clear. So this māyā is just like cloud. It comes where the temperature is very high, the cloud does not come. All depends on the circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Why shall I ask them to be? I asked them, "Just become lover of God. That's all. If you can love God through your religion, that's all right. You do that." I said that. I never said that "You become Hindu." Then I would not have been able to...
Dr. Patel: I think that they must understand, sir, that Hinduism is a way of life and not a religion. Religion is a Vedic religion, which is common to Christianity. I would say that Jesus Christ has taught the Vedic religion to the Middle East and to the heathens and he was crucified because the heathens were not able to understand him properly. That is what my, I mean, convictions, strong conviction is that Jesus had actually preached Hinduism, I mean Vedic religion there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he was...
Dr. Patel: And all religions are in fact Vedic.
Prabhupāda: He was educated of his spiritual life in India. Twelve years here. Twelve years he was. And he lived in Jagannātha temple.
Prabhupāda: Well, that is professional... It is not very. So everyone takes bribe and everyone is interested in money than anything. That is not very great fault. You see. When you are in the material world, you require money. That is fact.
Dr. Patel: They were not able to understand that he is going to raise another temple. Another temple, that is how the Jews, were against him. I think... That is what my conjection, no? Another temple means another creed of...
Prabhupāda: This is "against" or "for," this so-called "against" or "for," it has no meaning. Just like children fight, sometimes against, sometimes for. So it has no meaning. Unless one is raised in the spiritual consciousness, this so-called goodness and badness has no meaning. Caitanya-caritāmṛta kara says, dvaite bhadrābhadra sakali samāna: "In the material atmosphere, the so-called goodness and so-called badness, they're all the same, simply a different type of mental concoction. That's all."
Prabhupāda: There is no difference.
Dr. Patel: O rasa. Rasa nei hai
Prabhupāda: No, no, rasa... (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: Real rasa comes in Sanskrit. I read it twice in Gujarati, but I, I was not able to get that pleasure when I read it in Sanskrit.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. (S.B. 7.9.10)
Dr. Patel: Those two books of Kṛṣṇa, you have written, it's from this only.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: The Tenth skandha, no?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I mean, I read all those books which you have published. Now more books, you must send because I am a voracious reader. I'll finish all of them.
Prabhupāda: Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutāt. A brāhmaṇa having twelve brahminical qualifications... Viprād dvi-ṣaḍ-guṇa-yutād aravinda-nābha-pādāravinda-vimukhāt śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. A brāhmaṇa, well-learned, well-scholar, and just brahminical principles, strictly following, but if he is not a devotee, from him, one caṇḍāla is better. Śvapacaṁ variṣṭham. Why? Now, because that caṇḍāla has-caṇḍāla who is devotee caṇḍāla, not ordinary caṇḍāla—he has dedicated his mind, his body, his activities for the service of the Lord. Therefore he not only is purified, but he purifies the whole family, whereas a qualified brāhmaṇa, if he is not a devotee, he cannot purify himself, what to speak of purifying the family.
Prabhupāda: They should be engaged.
Hṛdayānanda: Should they be trained in a particular...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are not able to preach or to do other things, they must go to the plough department, agriculture.
Hṛdayānanda: Those who cannot preach.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Those who are less educated, not very much expert in preaching, they must be acting as kṣatriya or vaiśya, or as śūdra.
Hṛdayānanda: And sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Not he's śūdra. Always remember that. But he has to act to fulfill the, fill up the gap. Proxy.
Hṛdayānanda: So we should encourage people, young people, young students to come to our college.
Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.
Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa sends spiritual master, His representative, as you can appreciate, externally, directly. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is already spiritual master. He could give you instruction from the very beginning. But why He is sending His representative? What is the use?
Harikeśa: We're not able to...
Prabhupāda: Ah, because unless we are completely purified, Kṛṣṇa will, does not talk directly. Therefore you have to understand Kṛṣṇa through the spiritual master.
Harikeśa: So when we are having doubts, the only possible way, no matter what the indications are, are simply follow your instructions in all circumstances.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: Right. (break)
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa wanted instruction of guru, not directly.
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa's...
Prabhupāda: That, that I was explaining in the morning.
Dr. Patel: No, he has... I mean, delivered. I was not able to understand for many years this one. Ūrdhva-mūlam... (break) ...and this illusionary shadow.
Prabhupāda: This is maintained by Vedic injunction. Just like people are very much attached to fruitive activities. They are attached to that. They do not want to go beyond. The karmīs. Karmīs, their whole ambition is how to go to these heavenly planets. He does not know that what is the benefit of going to the heavenly planets? He does not know. Therefore he is amazed by the chandāṁsi, Vedic chandāṁsi. Yām imāṁ puṣpitāṁ vācam, veda-vādinaḥ. So they are especially attached to these Vedic...
Chandobhai: Injunctions of action.
Prabhupāda: Fruitive activities. They do not accept this: ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16). They'll not. "No, no. We shall go to..." Just like these rascals are going to the Candraloka. Candraloka. (laughter) Now other rascals supporting them: "Oh, now we are..." (laughter)
Indian man (2): Āsurīm...
Prabhupāda: Punar janmani. They'll never be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Bhagavān mate. They'll never be able to understand. And remain in darkness, and transmigrate from one body to another, and this business will go on.
Indian man (2): But then how will they come up?
Prabhupāda: When they tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). When they come to the stage to understand things by surrendering. But they will never surrender. That is their business. Ah?
Indian man (4): But the Lord uses a heavy stick, then they'll surrender.
Prabhupāda: They are surrendered. They are being kicked by māyā at every moment, but because they are fools, they say "I'm not surrendered." This is... In Bengali is called vihvala. Vihvala.(?) No, no... Shameless. He's being kicked every moment, but he's so shameless, that he's declared, "I'm independent, I'm independent." Shameless.
Prabhupāda: Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga. Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga.
Bhāgavata: That is the difference between the Chapter Karma-yoga and Karma-yoga in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pure, pure devotion means Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam.
Guest (1): I read fifteen percent power cut from today in the state. They have not able to do the service in electric. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...cut, cent percent. (break)
Makhanlal: ...you're performing, is the vaidhī-bhakti stage of...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Makhanlal: ...of the sādhana-bhakti, the regulative principles.
Prabhupāda: Yes, vaidhī-bhakti means regulative principles, and when you are accustomed, automatically you perform, that is rāga-bhakti.
Makhanlal: So vaidhī-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga then.
Prabhupāda: No. Karma-yoga is better.
Prabhupāda: Frankfurt. Oh, yes. Frankfurt is a big city. Sons are all married?
Indian man: The last son is not married. Two sons are married. Three daughters are... This daughter is to be married. We are trying, not able to get a suitable groom, you see. With your blessings I hope we will succeed.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Nowadays it is very difficult job to get married. (everyone laughs)
Wife: Suitable.
Prabhupāda: Well, suitable cannot be. There is no suitable.
Indian man: Difficult to find.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Formerly, as the girl is grown up, any boy.
Indian man: We used to marry at the age of ten, eleven. That is... Those days have been forty years back.
Prabhupāda: I was also married. My wife was eleven years old.
Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇava ācārya...
Dr. Patel: No, Vaiṣṇavas, all quotes come from Vaiṣṇavas. They all believe in the form.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Then I was not able to grasp it, though I am born Vaiṣṇava from my right birth. (break)
Yaduvara: Lord Indra is saying that Kṛṣṇa is so merciful that without punishing the offenses of the demons, that He devises means so that their false prestige is subdued. How is that? How does he devise means without punishment.
Prabhupāda: This is the device, that he agitated Indra, and he came down and surrendered unto Him. This is the device. Not directly punishing. That he came to understand what is the value of Kṛṣṇa.
Yaduvara: "My dear Lord, You are the supreme father, supreme spiritual master and supreme king." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...accepted by Indra is all described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (break) ...composed after Mahābhārata.
Yaduvara: "Due to my gross ignorance, I created great disturbance in Vṛndāvana by sending torrents of rain and heavy hailstorms." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...first of all, being observed by father of Kṛṣṇa. It is very important. (break) ...necessity of tapasya, if one worships Kṛṣṇa? Nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And after austerities, if he does not know Kṛṣṇa, then what is the value of his tapasya? (break) ...imitating here, that is lust.
Prabhupāda: No. Then how he can explain from zero something so important come into existence? (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says actually he doesn't start from zero. He starts from the cosmic force.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pṛthu Putra: He says it's something we cannot define what is it. A man is not able to define this force.
Prabhupāda: That means... You cannot define: that means your knowledge is imperfect. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says his knowledge is imperfect, that's for sure, but he says to define this cosmic force with the human mind is to bring down...
Yogeśvara: He says actually a human mind cannot define it. A human mind can't actually encompass the whole of the cosmic force.
Prabhupāda: If you cannot define, there is no remedy for your suffering. Just like a disease, unless the physician knows what is the infection, he cannot treat. (French)
Pṛthu Putra: He says one thing: we don't have to put name on disease or we don't have to know this name is called like that, this name is called like that, to cure it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the system. If you go to a physician, he will try to understand what is the cause of the disease. Then he makes treatment.
Devotee: Religious is automatically regulated sex life?
Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then. Otherwise.... We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, "I am Indian", (indistinct). Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).
Paramahaṁsa: Yes. First of all, I will pay my obeisances.
Prabhupāda: Then that servant, while he was employed, there was an urgent business. The rich man said that "Tomorrow I am going. You must come and go with me." So suppose he was to go at ten o'clock. Then at nine o'clock a messenger came: "You are ready?" "No, just I am cooking. Then I shall finish my cooking, take my meals and then we shall go." So he was very angrily inquired, "So why you did not...?" "No, I am cooking." "Where you are cooking?" Now, he has three bamboos, and on the top there was a pot, rice pot, and he was giving fire here. So that rich man came and saw. "What kind of cooking this is?" "No, there is heat. It is going on." (laughter) "So how you do this, such a nonsense." "No, if the temperature from the lamp on the roof of the sky could protect that man, why not it will be cooking?" Then he could understand this is the reply. So that man was paid. So this kind of progress, cooking, three miles above, a pot, a little fire, it will not act. There must be proper adjustment of cooking. Then you can cook food and eat. A little smoke or little fire and three miles away the cooking pot, in this way, cooking is useless attempt. One must be serious to cook. There is method how to cook. If you don't adopt that method and if you cook in your whimsical way, you will never be able to eat. If you say, "I shall cook in my way," and if you adopt that process, will it help? Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ... So what are these things? (break) ...on the floor. But this instruction was for you, that you are keeping. I never keep my Bhāgavata on the floor. I keep always my head. So better you take it. (laughter) I keep my Bhāgavata either on this table or on the head and never on the floor. So that is for you. (laughter) Yes. Then next? (laughter) Yes. It is good, nice.
Rūpānuga: Kṛṣṇa says, "Take it from Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes. And if he wants to make research, that means he is a rascal number one. If you want to make research, then search out what is the original brain, not the process. Process is already going on. What is the use of your research, nonsense? Suppose by chemical combination, if you produce one life... You will never be able. But still, if you think that you will be able or you become able, then what is credit to you? Without your help there, millions and millions of life are being manufactured, without your help. Then what is your credit?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imitating a barking dog.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So millions of dogs are barking, and one man has learned how to bark like dog, and people will go to see him by purchasing ticket. This is their foolishness. Suppose if you somehow or other become able to produce life from chemical, then what is your credit? It is like barking dog. Millions of dog are barking. Now you have learned how to bark like dog. So what is your credit? It may be for the rascal fools that you are scientist, but we are not so rascal.
Rūpānuga: The scientists are trying to be the hero. Kṛṣṇa is the hero. He has done everything first, and the scientist wants to be the hero.
Prabhupāda: So you have to present like this, that "What is the credit? Suppose by chemical composition you can manufacture one ant. That is not possible. Be assured you will never be able. That we are assured. But even if you are able, then what is your credit? The credit is the man has learned how to bark like a dog. That's all, this much credit."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, if they are able to make life, then they are going to say that there's no God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, but first of all you produce. Then say. Why you are anticipating that you will be able to...?
Rūpānuga: Still, who is the bigger God? If I make one ant, and there's already many, many ants made by a bigger God than me...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, so He is God. Whoever has made the most, He should be God.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rūpānuga: Yes, they want to be God.
Prabhupāda: So how we can respect the demons? We cannot.
Rūpānuga: No. We'll not give them any credit.
Prabhupāda: The other fools, they can give some respect, but we are not going to do that. We say, "You will never be able." You can say. This rascal, we can give some knowledge, that "Your this attempt will be failure," because we know life cannot be created. How he will create? We know the formula, na jāyate. So how this rascal will be able to create? I am not a scientist, but on the strength of Bhagavad-gītā's assertion, na jāyate na mriyate. "Neither it is created; neither it dies." So if somebody wants to create, then at once we shall call him a fool. We have got test tube. Very boldly we shall say. Now let them prove that can he create. This is our position. So Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he has got very strong position. He speaks just what Kṛṣṇa speaks. That's all, finished.
Ambassador: I never managed to love them. I can love most things, but not crocodiles.
Prabhupāda: No, they are also God's creature, but covered by the body. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Those who are spiritually advanced, they see equally because they know that within the body the spirit soul is there. The spirit soul is part and parcel of God. He is encaged somehow or other in a particular type of body. So a devotee of God is very kind to everyone. Brahma-bhutaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na ka..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54). Samaḥ sarveṣu..., mad-bhakti labhate param. That is the stage of making advance in devotional life—equality. That equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual understanding. Otherwise not possible. The United Nation will never be able to unite the nation. That is not possible.
Indian man: Ah. Then serious is also...
Prabhupāda: Then you are not serious.
Indian man: No, no, no, it is not the question of... No. Excuse me, Guruji, that I am not able to explain to you properly. The point is...
Prabhupāda: Then hear me, that if you chant Rāma, then gradually you will get attachment for Rāma. Then how you can give it up?
Indian man: Ah, that is what I am lacking.
Prabhupāda: That means you haven't got the attachment. Your procedure has been failure.
Indian man: Ah, but sir, what is lacking?
Prabhupāda: Lacking, there are so many things. But one who is actually chanting Rāma, the result will be that he will get attachment. That is the process. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgaḥ atha bhajana-kriyā, tato anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt tato niṣṭha tato ruciḥ tathā āsaktiḥ tato bhāvaḥ. This will increase. Just like if you have gone to school—you have learned, began to learning—then your learning will increase. And one day you will come to the stage of passing M.A. examination. And if it fails, that mean you did not go to school very seriously. Otherwise the general process is you make progress and come to the standard of passing M.A. examination. Then if you have gone to school and you have not followed the rules and regulations, you have not attended the teacher, the lessons, then you failure. That I am saying, that that is not very seriously taken that "I am going to school. I must learn it."
Guest: Then what should the scientists' role?
Prabhupāda: Scientists' role, not only scientists, scientists, philosopher, politician—everyone should endeavor that "Wherefrom we got these propensities? Where is the origin?" That is described in the Vedānta-sūtra: athāto brahma jijñāsā. I am a scientist. I am thinking of myself very great man, but I do not think that "Who is that great scientist under whose order the sun, moon, the sea, ocean, everything is working very properly?" I am thinking of that water is created by hydrogen, oxygen, but I do not inquire, "Wherefrom such hugh quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came, so that there is big oceans and seas, water?" That I don't enquire. So I am so foolish scientist. I am theorizing. I am theorizing that life has come from matter, chemical composition, but as soon as I ask that "I give you the chemical. You create," he says, "That I cannot do." This is going on. But our business is, we Kṛṣṇa conscious, that we see that you scientists, you are trying to create a living being, but I glorify the Supreme who has already created millions and millions of living beings. I give you credit that... I cannot give you credit unless you create. But still, as you are thinking that you will be able in future, that's good... But what credit you will have? If I have got millions of rupees, and if you create ten rupees, then what is your credit? Even if you create? You cannot do it. You will never be able to create life. That's a fact. That we know. But even if you are able to create, then what credit you, do you get. This is... Already there are millions and trillions of life. Why you are so proud that "We are going to create in the laboratory, life." Why this false prestige?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Join.
Prabhupāda: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body—"Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Madhudviṣa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...
Prabhupāda: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?
Brahmānanda: Why is India not satisfied with its own culture? If the Westerners are now going after the spiritual culture...
Prabhupāda: Because your forefathers came from England and taught them like this. That is the real fact. India was satisfied, but the Lord Macauley, they said no, that if you keep Indian as Indian, you'll never be able to rule lower down. Cultural conqueror. So they began to teach Indians England's work in India. "Whatever you have got, that is all nonsense. You learn from us." And the first product is Jawaharlal Nehru. This is the misfortune of foreign rule.
Yaśodānandana: It would seem then that English culture is stronger than Indian culture then.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Yaśodānandana: It seems that the English culture has conquered over the Indian culture then.
Prabhupāda: No, Indian culture is still going on. It is not lost. Otherwise how it is going to your country and bringing you? (laughter)
Indian boy: I was just nine months old when we left Delhi.
Prabhupāda: So Australia, they are inviting people to come here for working, but how is that? They do not get job?
Paramahaṁsa: They are not in control. There is a jobless rate, unemployment. They call it unemployment. It goes out of control. Sometimes people lose their jobs, and they can't find a job. But the government is not able to control the economy very well. All over the world this happens. So sometimes people try to get a job and they can't get the job.
Prabhupāda: There is enough jobs if the government arranges to engage them in growing food. But there is no such arrangement.
Paramahaṁsa: No. There is so much land in Australia.
Prabhupāda: The government should have some arrangement for engaging in working the field. (end)
Justin Murphy: Well, maybe less enjoyment but more possessions.
Prabhupāda: No, enjoyment in this way of life more sense enjoyment, you will never be able to enjoy or happiness. That is not possible. That is the nature's way. (Aside:) You can close the door. If you simply want to enjoy, you can enjoy. But you will create more miseries. So this is one way of life, that you enjoy your senses and create more miseries. This is one way of life. And if you want to decrease your miseries, then there is another life, which is called simple life. Simple life means you produce your food and you produce your cloth so you dress yourself nicely, you eat, yourself, nicely, keep yourself fit and glorify the Lord. This is one way of life. And the other way of life, that "We don't care for the Lord. Let us enjoy the senses to the topmost capacity and be happy..." So this way of life will never make you happy. You will simply go on struggling. This is one way of life. Another way of life, that the human life is meant for God realization...
That is Vedānta philosophy. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now, by evolutionary process, we have come to the human form of life, and it is meant for asking, "What is my constitutional position? Am I this body, or I am something else?" The dogs, he cannot put this inquiry. A dog, he thinks that he is dog, that's all. He is jumping, he is barking, and eating, sleeping, and having sex. That's all. If I ask one dog, "Please sit down. Hear Bhagavad-gītā," it is not possible. But you are human being, if I ask you, "Mr. such and such, sit down, hear from the Bhagavad-gītā," you can do that. First of all we must know the difference between dog and me. The dog is incapable to understand Bhagavad-gītā. But human being... Just like we are selling this book in the Western countries, many millions of copies, because they are human being. We are not selling among the cats and dogs.
Paramahaṁsa: They can't just stop and say, "OK, now we..."
Prabhupāda: If they stop, then they are failure.
Paramahaṁsa: Yeah. And then everyone will complain, "Oh, you wasted billions of dollars."
Prabhupāda: And if they go, then they will have the right information. But they will never be able to go.
Devotee (1): Just like Rāvaṇa could not reach the heavenly planets just by building the staircase.
Prabhupāda: That was his only demonic proposal, that "We make staircase." He said that "Why you are undergoing so much austerities to go to the heavenly planets? I shall make a staircase. You will go."
Amogha: How high did he make it?
Prabhupāda: He never attempted. He simply bluffed, that's all. So demons' proposals are like that. Therefore it is a common say in, hearsay in the, in India, that rāvaṇe sarge sini(?): "The proposal is just like Rāvaṇa proposed to make a staircase to the heavenly planets." He was also very much advanced materially, very prosperous materially. Gold was very common thing. He brought gold from Brazil through the subway. His brother was king there, in southern America.
Śrutakīrti: He said, "irreparable damage." They'll never be able to again restore what they've taken.
Paramahaṁsa: So he's very perplexed by the future, say, a hundred years from now, what will happen if we go on at the rate we're going, taking natural resources.
Prabhupāda: Just like they are taking petrol. This is natural resources. They are taking continually.
Paramahaṁsa: But he says the CSIRO, most of the people there are involved in researching how to exploit the natural resources more. So he's a little bit different because he's trying to present a clear warning that this is happening. But then again he doesn't have any potency to stop it. It seemed that when you were speaking to him he related bodily consciousness with the selfishness of the industrialists when they're exploiting natural resources like that.
Prabhupāda: They are doing so many things. They are killing cows for their own benefit. So many animals they are killing. Birds.
Madhudviṣa: The demons are trying to go to the heavenly planets by building their skyscrapers higher and higher.
Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa's, Rāvaṇa's staircase for going to the heaven. He promised that "Oh, what is the use of austerity? I shall make a staircase directly. You can go." As their... It is the same, Rāvaṇa's staircase and the modern attempt to go to the moon planet, the same thing. They will never be able to go, but imagining that "We shall do it." The same process, Rāvaṇa's process. For how many years they are going? Since 1950?
Devotee: To the moon expedition?
Prabhupāda: Yes, moon expedition.
Devotee: Maybe 1955.
Madhudviṣa: 1955.
Devotee: The first moon landing was 1961.
Prabhupāda: That is beginning. First of all they sent dog. (laughter)
Director: What if he's misguided? The world changes and since that book was...
Prabhupāda: Simply because they did not follow. Just like in India, this is the character of the brāhmaṇas that later on gradually the culture was lost since the last one thousand years, because India was subjugated by foreigners. The Mohammedans, they introduced some of their culture. Then the Britishers came. They intr... everyone wants an interest. The Britishers, when British rule came, their Lord Macauley's(?) private report was that "If you want to keep them as Indian Hindu, you will never be able to rule over." So it was British government's policy to condemn everything Indian.
Director: But you said before that they didn't allow drinking, the British.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Director: It's only now that... Didn't you say before?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the British allowed. British, very carefully, because they directly did not put hands on their culture. But underground. And when they are now trained up, now they are openly doing. But the training was by the Britishers. In gentleman's society there must be drinking. This was the introduction.
Prabhupāda: No, you can go directly also, if you want to finish your business. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). This is a consideration, who, one who fails in executing. But if you become successful, then you go directly where Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there in some universe. So those who are completely liberated, they go to that universe. Just like when Kṛṣṇa comes here, in each and every universe there is a Vṛndāvana. So in that Vṛndāvana one takes birth. Then goes to original Vṛndāvana. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: Those who are not able to maintain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness principle, then they may have to go to India next lifetime.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīmatam, śrīmatāṁ śucīnāṁ.
Paramahaṁsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So śrīmatāṁ, you can get here. Śrīmatam means rich, rich family. Here you get many families, Ford family... But śrīmatāṁ and śucīnāṁ. So if you are creating so many brāhmaṇas, so if this cult is permanent, then there will be many brāhmaṇa family here also.
Prabhupāda: That is only. That is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhi... If you want to know God and your relationship with God then only through bhakti, no other. That is stated in the... Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Otherwise you will never be able to understand.
Prof. Hopkins: If the highest reality is Puruṣottama and Puruṣottama is manifested in many different ways in the world, can people come to Puruṣottama through various paths?
Prabhupāda: Various path means bhakti is the only path. Now all other paths they must come to bhakti. Without bhakti there is no possibility.
Prof. Hopkins: But must bhakti be directed to Kṛṣṇa only or...
Prabhupāda: Because Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. Bhakti means our transaction with Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). So original Bhagavān is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then that you have to admit that you are conditioned by some authority. When you are put into jail, you cannot act independently. You have to act according to the jail superintendent's order.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, is our desire to be eternal, blissful and full of knowledge...
Prabhupāda: Now let me finish. You will never be able to understand if you jump over like that. Let one thing be understood.
Devotee (4): So he admits he's conditioned, but still, there's no free will. He says, "Yeah, so I'm in the prison. I'm imprisoned. I'm conditioned."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Free will... Just like a man commits theft by his free will. But when he is put into jail, then no more free will. He has to act according to the jail superintendent. But his beginning of jail life is free will. Nobody asked him that "You go to jail." But why he has come? He knows also that "When I am put into jail, I will lose all my freedom." He knows that. Still, he comes. Why does he come? He knows that. That is called ajñāna. Mūḍha. That is called mūḍha. He knows; still, he does.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So their "perhaps," "maybe," is going on. And that will continue.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Why does the living entity wish to speculate in this way?
Prabhupāda: He has been given a special advantage to think of God, but instead of thinking God, he is thinking all these rubbish things, which he will never be able to fulfill. Misusing. The thinking power he is misusing.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: So this mental speculation or this "perhaps" and "maybe" is a misuse of his specific power to understand God.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The life, human life, is meant for enquiring about God, and God is explaining Himself about God. Instead of studying Bhagavad-gītā very scrutinizingly, they are wasting time. "The cells, this, that, atom." That's all, wasting time Just like we are driving this car. So we can utilize it for going from one place to another. So there is no need of studying how the car is moving, how many parts are there.
Prabhupāda: Ignorance.
Citsukhānanda: Your teachings, the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā as it is, had not come here before. So these people are misled. So just recently you have presented. So in a sense it is not their fault because they have had not the chance to hear Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They have got many Bhagavad-gītā, but they were not able to understand. But now by your grace, maybe we'll see the reaction in a few years. Maybe all this will change.
Prabhupāda: Do they say like that or you are saying?
Citsukhānanda: Well, some people have said. Not widely yet. The work must go on. There's much to go. (break)
Dharmādhyakṣa: Bacteriology, study of germs. So Śrīla Prabhupāda, the reason one person gets a disease from a germ and another person doesn't get a disease, it is karma?
Prabhupāda: No, that is infection. If you are weak, you are infected. That is the science. One who is not weak, he does not become infected. Just like in your country there are so many liquor shop, but you are not interested. So it is like that.
Prabhupāda: He taught you how to use H-bomb?
Yadubara: No, he wasn't teaching that. He was teaching some physics. He was not a very good teacher. There were 1500 pupils in the class, students, and we would never be able to see the teacher, so many students.
Dharmādhyakṣa: He recently retired, and he was lamenting how young people are shunning science now. Young people are not so interested in science. He was also very disappointed that the new scientists were not as well trained as the old scientists and did not have the same desire to serve science.
Prabhupāda: What they will do by serving science? The birth, death is already there. So they are becoming saner, that "What is the use of wasting time in this way? We cannot solve any problem." That is sense. They cannot solve any... He is still alive or died?
Dharmādhyakṣa: He's alive.
Prabhupāda: So ask him that "Find out some bomb that you will not die. Why don't you do that?" (laughter) Yes. "People are dying, and you have invented something to die very soon. So why don't you invent something that you will never die? Can you do that? Therefore we are no more interested in science. It is a waste of time." Tell him. You go your professor. "You are regretting that young men are no more interested. So this is our reason because, after all, we have to die. Everything will be finished. Then what is the use of studying? You have not improved anything. The animals have also two legs, and two, four legs. We have got also four legs and where is the difference? You say, the Darwin's theory, from monkey, man has come, but you never shown us that a monkey has ever given birth to a man. So all this false propaganda, we are no more interested."
Prabhupāda: No he comes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Yeah, you are not going to him. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...first came to me that "We are trying to establish universal brotherhood." You were not present. Who was present? I said, "It is all bogus. You will never be able to do it." Immediately I told him." It is all bogus. You will never be able to."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I noticed, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in your conversation with him that there was some mention that the Vedas were the universal doctrine. So he mentioned, I think, that his... What is that book they have? The Guru-grantha could also be accepted as universal. And I think you said something that it was only a branch.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Rather, they purchase also.
Jayādvaita: Yes. The scientists become conquered. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...scientists do not manufacture brain and give it to a stone, and he becomes a scientist. Why do they not do that? Manufacture. You have got so nice brain. Now manufacture another brain and put it on the stone, and he becomes that, what is called, Frankenstein? (laughter) Why they are not able to create another brain? What is the answer?
Jayatīrtha: They haven't been able to get sufficient research grants from the government.
Rāmeśvara: They need more money from the government to...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say they will do it.
Prabhupāda: And then what is his position? Who has created his brain?
Rādhā-vallabha: This just came in the course of evolution.
Prabhupāda: So then why you are talking so much? It will come, everything. Why you are wasting time. Let it come everything by evolution.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is truth. Without Kṛṣṇa, everything is untruth. Truth is one. Just like zero is zero. And it is added with one, then it is ten. It is truth. So zero is zero always. Hundred million times zero—it is zero. But when there is one, immediately value increases. So without Kṛṣṇa, all this material advancement, they are all zeros. But if you bring Kṛṣṇa, then it... that increases value-ten, hundred, thousand, tens of thousands, like that, million, billions. Because the one is there. So bring Kṛṣṇa, and then everything will be value. Otherwise, all zero. You may be proud of so-called material advancement. It is zero, because it will not save you, because tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) you have to change your body. So you have earned so much millions and billions of money. That's all right. But you have to go empty-handed. The money will remain here. You cannot take that money within the tomb. That is not possible. Then it is zero. You are going empty-handed. You came empty-handed and going empty-handed. You came with zero and you are going with zero. So whatever you have earned, that is zero. But if you have attempted to serve Kṛṣṇa with all these zeros, then you have taken some value. Then Kṛṣṇa will see: "Oh, he has done so much for Me. Let him come." Otherwise zero. What is the value of your skyscraper building and billions of dollars in the bank? You cannot take it with you. And this is called māyā. You cannot take it with you; still, you are struggling hard day and night. This is called māyā. Not a single farthing you will be able to take with you, and still, you are simply happy. They are called "asses." Just like asses, they have so much big burden, but nothing of the burden belongs to him. Mūḍha. They are called mūḍha, asses. For nothing happiness, which he will never be able to take with him. What do they say? They are doing it for next generation.
Prabhupāda: Mundi House means?
Tejas: Mahārāja of Mundi. Now it's a television studio.
Prabhupāda: Rajwari garden, they are serious about?
Tejas: He is serious. This morning I will go there because I tried to contact them yesterday and was not able to. We will go first thing this morning, after we get back. (break)
Prabhupāda: You put forth such new, I think. It was not before. But they have supplied so rotten materials.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Breaking. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...class in the temple?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: At what time?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually the class, the morning class is over, but we can... Delhi has a different schedule.
Brahmānanda: Class is at five o'clock.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a Bhagavad-gītā class in the evening.
Prabhupāda: What is this building?
Tejas: This is Ayana Bhavan. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Balarāma's. So fasting.
Prabhupāda: No, God is directing. This is the direction of God.
Member: Only through you they will get that. Only people like you can relate with... It is dormant. The soul is there, and it is in a dormant stage. Unless it is kindled, it cannot have light. People like you can kindle them. And it is really our fortune that we are having Swamiji with us. There was some ṛṣi. Even our Samanja Ācārya(?) or his guru, they were not able to carry this outside India. But you are able to, with all your... I think you are... Is it not said that you are an incarnation of God or you are deputy of God, is it?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Don't say like that.
Member: You are deputy of God, and He is making you true. Swamiji will be staying here for another two months?
Prabhupāda: Yes. I wish to.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Have you seen that land which has been given to us in Nellore?
Member: Yes, it is very near to me. You see, in Nellore, one lady has donated about ninety acres of land.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: With a house.
Member: With a house which will cost nearly four or five lakhs or even more. Very costly. And they also ...
Prabhupāda: Which season is good? I shall go there.
Prabhupāda: Ah. When he comes to this awareness, that "I have simply suffered and I wanted to maintain myself by jugglery of words," then he comes to the real knowledge.
Dhṛṣṭaketu: So the Māyāvādīs' philosophy is actually the supreme illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has forbidden. Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva nasa (CC Madhya 6.169). One is finished if he follows the Māyāvāda philosophy. He is doomed. He will never be able to accept the real philosophy. He will be absorbed in that false philosophy. This is Māyāvādī's position. Māyāvādī haya kṛṣṇe aparādhī. They are aparādhī, offender. Therefore they shall remain perpetually in ignorance and think himself, "I am God." This is Māyāvādī's position. Vivekānanda preached openly that "Why you are thinking that you are sinful? You are God." He preached like that.
Brahmānanda: The Christians, they have a concept of sin. So when Vivekānanda went to America he was telling them, "No, you forget this concept. Whatever you do, it's all right because you are God." They were surprised.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's a verse in the Bhāgavatam, Prabhupāda. Yenātmā suprasīdati: "By rendering devotional service to the transcendental Lord, one becomes completely satisfied." So what happens? These people in material life, they come to the temples and they chant a little bit. But they find that the standard of pure devotional service is so high that they're not able to grasp it. They don't feel the complete satisfaction. They're still attached to the material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is compared with the jaundice disease. Jaundice disease, for jaundice, sugarcane is the medicine. But they taste sugarcane as bitter. Sugarcane... One who is suffering in jaundice will taste sugarcane as bitter. That is the test. So that is the medicine. So he has to take the sugarcane. And by taking, when he is cured he will find, "Oh, it is very sweet."
Prabhupāda: Up to four.
Dr. Patel: If I come at four-thirty, you are there.
Prabhupāda: No. At that time, I shall not be able to... You can come at five. Because after waking up I prepare. Then at five I begin. Let us meet. And Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So one has to become dhīra. If one remains adhīra, then he'll never be able to understand the distinction between body and soul.
Dr. Patel: Dhīra means buddhi.
Prabhupāda: Dhīra means sober. Sober, yes. Just like high-court judge. He judges everything very... (break) ...then he gives his judgment.
Indian man (7): Attention.
Prabhupāda: Full attention. And attention means with good intelligence, (dog barking) not foolishly. (Hindi) That "You are not body. Why you are fighting?" Will they hear? (Hindi) That "My dear dog, you are not this body. Why you are fighting?" He will never understand. Similarly, if a man does not understand, he is no better than the dog.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Suraheja(?) is going to come also. (break)
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: ...vimūḍha. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasān vimūḍhan.
Dr. Patel: That, some people have spoke, go-kharaḥ. I am not able to understand much about the whole śloka, so you know, the salile, buddhi, and what is that? The Sanskrit is little difficult to me.
Prabhupāda: You explain.
Dr. Patel: No, I want you to explain.
Prabhupāda: No, he is also paṇḍita. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: Śrīmad-Bhāgavata Sanskrit little difficult.
Prabhupāda: Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ-kunape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is just like a bag made of three dhātus: kaptha, pitta, vāyu. Actually it is so. They are thinking that this body is made of blood, muscle, bone, and urine, and stool. This is the constitution of the body. And these foolish people thinking that the living condition is coming from combination of these things.
Dr. Patel: You rate me very badly.
Prabhupāda: No, because you are saying like that. You do not know that I started this business without nothing, you see, with practical nothing. I offered Mr. Nair that "I will give you two lakhs, and the balance I'll give you in three years." So who will believe? "He is a beggar, and he promises to give me fifteen lakhs of rupees within three years." Who will believe that? He knew that "He will not be able to pay. So whatever two lakhs, three lakhs he gives, that will be mine. That's all. Bas." And I was thinking, "He is such a nice gentleman that he will take money, little, little, and I will collect and pay. He is a nice gentleman," I was thinking. And he was thinking, "He's a great fool, (laughter) that he is offering me two lakhs, three lakhs, and he will never be able to pay me balance." So this was the transaction beginning.
Dr. Patel: He had made such transaction before also, I think.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He knew that. I thought, "He is a very nice man. He'll take money one after another, so let me take it." This was the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is the injunction, sadā. Sadā means always.
Devotee (3): Well, if one is not able to do that in the beginning... For instance, if during twenty-four hours...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we are constructing temples. At least you will think, "We are constructing Kṛṣṇa's temple." Because you are habituated to work, work for Kṛṣṇa. Go to sell books. Print books. Type for Kṛṣṇa. This is also the same thing. Because you are accustomed to all these things, so nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandha. When it is connected with Kṛṣṇa it is as good as chanting. Therefore we are so much eager. Otherwise there is no need of temple; we can chant anywhere. But that stage is not so easy, like Haridāsa Ṭhākura we can sit down and chant anywhere. That is not possible. Then you'll sleep. Therefore these things are required. Everyone, we are working for this temple. Every one of us, we know that "This temple not for my sense gratification: This is for Kṛṣṇa." So that is important. The police commissioner is thinking, "It is nuisance." Huh? Police commissioner is thinking it is nuisance. But we are not thinking it is nuisance. We are not so fool. The politicians, the police commissioner, they'll think of, "He is my enemy; he is my friend." That is their occupation. They'll never think of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (3): (break) You were speaking about the blind person who is thinking that he can see. He is in illusion. How can we best convince him that he is not able to see?
Prabhupāda: You have to convince him that "Your eyes are imperfect." Then you can tell, "Just close your eyes. Can you see the eyelid? It closes, but you cannot see. Why? You have got eyes. When there is some particle in the eye, so close and find out where is the particle. Why making this way, this way, this way? So what is the value of your eyes? This is the proof. You cannot see even your eyelids. So why do... Why you are so much proud of seeing?" Is it not?
Devotee (3): Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is conviction. He can say that "I cannot see on account of distant place, the planet," but you see the nearest. So you cannot see distant place things and you cannot see nearest. Then what is the value of your eyes? That means you can see only under certain condition. So condition is offered by somebody else. Therefore you are conditioned. Your seeing is conditioned, because it is not absolute. So how do you believe your eyes? Hm?
Dr. Patel: So many phenomenas which are...
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is rascaldom. That is rascaldom.
Dr. Patel: We are not able to explaining...
Prabhupāda: Scientific means there cannot be two opinions. The same, that is scientific.
Dr. Patel: Aren't there multiple ways of approaching the same truth? One may be more straight. Bhakti may be more straight, according to us, but...
Prabhupāda: No, no. But we are... Truth is one. Truth is one. You cannot say that "I have got my own way of understanding truth." That is not possible.
Dr. Patel: Well, then I honestly have a little difference, and that is that truth is one point and we want to approach it. You go staight, directly. Yours is the shortest cut. I may be a fool, or a what you call, mūḍha...
Prabhupāda: So how you can remain...? If you are fool, how you can become a scientist?
Dr. Patel: But our science is taught to us, that's all. You may say anything about it, but that is what...
Prabhupāda: If you say, "My scientific way is foolish way..."
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. Mine is foolish way, according to you. But according to you... Just be very wise. What is truth only God knows.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is going on. That is your science.
Prabhupāda: They understood from the Germans.
Dr. Patel: Yes, sir, but it is said that the German scientist ran away to America because they were afraid of Hitler. If Hitler gets the secret of atom, he would bomb out the whole world.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Hitler knew it.
Dr. Patel: No. They were not able to be successful to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. He knew it, everything, but he did not like to do it. He said. He said. He was gentleman. But these people are not gentlemen. He knew it perfectly well. He said that "I can smash the whole world, but I do not use that weapon." The Germans already discovered. But out of humanity they did not use it. And all the, your American, other countries, they have stolen from German ideas.
Dr. Patel: I think, sir, German scientists ran away during the wartime to America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of them went to Russia, some of them-(aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa—to America.
Prabhupāda: Hm? We don't say.
Dr. Patel: The Eskimos are not able to do it.
Prabhupāda: No. Civilization means they must live in a nice place like India. That is civilization. The America in those days, they were neglecting. Nobody was living there. Gradually they advanced. Otherwise these tracts of land were rejected.
Dr. Patel: Hm?
Prabhupāda: These tracts of land, North America, that was rejected by the Aryans. They knew it.
Dr. Patel: They say the Mexico was known.
Prabhupāda: Mexico, they are less civilized. They are not Aryans. They are not Aryans.
Dr. Patel: That is patala bhumī.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Patala bhumī means just opposite the eastern hemisphere.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Just opposite the?
Prabhupāda: Eastern hemisphere.
Dr. Patel: So we have come.
Prabhupāda: If you manufacture your own knowledge, then you'll never be able to understand. (everyone laughs) Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) compulsory. You cannot understand; that is not possible. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that the honey, huh? Honey, honey, if somebody says, "Take this honey," the bottle, and he began to lick up the bottle: "It is not sweet. Why it is not sweet?" You go to a person who can open the bottle. (laughter) Then you'll see. You cannot taste the sweetness of honey by licking up the bottle. It must be... There must be some expert who can open it, and then you can taste. So they are trying to taste the honey in the bottle by their own imagination and licking up the bottle. Where is the taste? Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says,
One who has seen, one who knows where is the honey is there, go there, and he'll open, and you'll understand.
Harikeśa: Yes. So I have to find out the means to enjoy, and to negate the pain and to make the pleasure more.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's very nice proposal, but whether, at the present moment, or in the history, whether a man is enjoying life or suffering?
Harikeśa: Well, men, men have actually never really enjoyed because they never understood enough about themselves. They were never able to overcome their difficulties due to ignorance.
Prabhupāda: So then the next question will be that how to become enjoyable, or how to enjoy? The next question is.... There may be different thesis. So our thesis is that we are trying to enjoy life by covering ourself. The crude example.... Just like sometimes before, the.... It may be nowadays also current. The contraceptive method was by using one cover. Do you know that?
Harikeśa: Hmh.
Prabhupāda: What is called?
Harikeśa: Prophylactic.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Harikeśa: A prophylactic.
Prabhupāda: Not prophylactic. Technical name. So, but that was not enjoyable. So then they discovered pills. So covered enjoyment is not enjoyment. It is not complete enjoyment. The same.... The real enjoyment in this material world is sex. Now if we want to enjoy sex, covered with coats and pants, is that enjoyment is pleasing?
Harikeśa: No.
Prabhupāda: Therefore actually when they want to enjoy sex in the private room, they become naked. So they are seeking enjoyment with this material body, but they are not able to enjoy on account of being covered. This is the thesis.
Harikeśa: Hmmm. This is the Kṛṣṇa conscious thesis.
Prabhupāda: Well, why do you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately? From practical point of view. So why they want to enjoy sex life being naked? That means covered enjoyment is not enjoyment. It is hampered enjoyment. Therefore we living entities, or, say, human beings, we want enjoyment. That's all right. But we are not able to enjoy fully because we are covered by something. This is the thesis. This is the thesis. But these rascals, or the ignorant persons, they do not know that "I am covered by something. Therefore my enjoyment is not complete." This is the thesis. So you answer this. Our enjoyment is not being completed on account of being covered by this material body. This is the thesis.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Ahaṁ brahmāsmi I was not able to explain till I heard Swamijī on the first day at Rajeswara in Mandapur.(?) That fits in. Otherwise Māyāvādīns, "All right, but Śaṅkarācārya saying, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Why you say no?" Because so many persons ask me question. And when I was confronted, I was not able to say that. But the way the mukti was defined, mukti, yes, and in the lecture, and īṣa, sarveśa, all those things—ātmā, Paramātmā, aṁśa, Paramāṁśa—there I found that it can be explained. Because so many persons, they ask in public meeting like Lions Club, where we take up these topics. Then we feel at our wit's end. But now I think I can explain them.
Prabhupāda: So that day my explanation was all right?
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes, that is how I feel. And that is what will apply also to Acyutānanda Swami's question also, I think.
Acyutānanda: No, I'm just fencing.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: No, no, that's all.... I know.
Acyutānanda: So Durga is higher than Viṣṇu because Viṣṇu required Durga to awaken Him from the yoga-nidrā to kill Madhu and Kaitabha. So she controls Him.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if I ask my servant that "You ask me to get up at seven o'clock," that does not mean.... (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The stricture of nature's law, that is science. Is it not scientific effort? They will never be able to do so, but still, they are... To stop death, birth, death, old age, is very major problem, but even in small things you cannot do anything. Everywhere you are dependent. And still, they are very much proud that they are advancing in scientific knowledge so that they can overcome the stringent laws of nature and so on, so on. Durāśaya. It is called durāśaya, hope which will never be fulfilled. Is it not? Durāśaya. Śāstra, Bhāgavata, says, durāśaya. This is their foolishness. They are expecting something which will never be fulfilled. Therefore śāstra says, durāśaya. Now what they are doing about the moon planet?
Harikeśa: They've forgotten about it.
Sudāmā: Now they're trying for Mars.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Hele dāntavān keuṭe.(?) A man was trying to capture snake. So there are snakes, hele. There are many snakes; they have no poison, especially the water snake, the hele. So hele dāntavān keuṭe.(?) Keuṭe means cobra. So one cannot catch up the poisonless snake, and he is attempting to capture cobra. They could not go to the moon planet, which is only 1,600,000 miles above the sun, and they are going to Venus, which is far, far away, still. How many miles the Venus is situated? They have committed some mistake.
Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Now everyone is hankering after very beautiful wife, and Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "Then you are bringing one enemy." Just see what is the type of civilization. Because if you become too much attached to wife, then you'll never be able to go out of home and take sannyāsa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Andha-kūpam.
Prabhupāda: Andha-kūpam. You shall have to die. Gṛham andha-kūpam. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato... You'll never be able to leave the home if wife is very attractive. Of course, everyone's wife is very attractive. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if ugly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That... One, our Sanskrit professor used to... "My dear boys, even there is beauty amongst the negroes." He used to say. And it is my... It is one's eye that she is very beautiful. It does not recommend others' recommendation. Yar saṅge ye morje man kibari ki vardana(?). It doesn't matter whether she low caste or high caste; if she is attractive, then it is all right. Therefore rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction are very, very nice. You know my story? My father's instruction? Yes.
Hari-śauri: Mahārāja Pratāparudra was also thinking like that.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hari-śauri: Mahārāja Pratāparudra, when he was refused interview by Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: He was thinking, "He saved Jagāi and Mādhāi, but I am so low that I am not able to see Him."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Jagāi-Mādhāi was delivered, but I am so lower that I have no chance of being delivered." Pratāparudra Mahārāja.
Harikeśa: It's inconceivable how he could think like that.
Prabhupāda: No, every Vaiṣṇava thinks like that. A Vaiṣṇava never thinks, "I have become perfect." Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, what to speak of others. (break) ...are carrying cement? Hm? (end)
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Rascal. He is doing transcendental meditation. He got so much opportunity to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He did it in the beginning very nicely. A rascal, he became victim. These things are for ajitendriyāṇām. Those who are not able to control the senses, they make this business, transcendental meditation, and secretly doing all nonsense. The whole thing, this transcendental meditation, that, what is that, Maharishi Yogi, they are doing all nonsense and advertising, "We are transcendental meditation."
Hari-śauri: They openly advertise that "If you do transcendental meditation, then you can do your business better, you can have better sex life."
Prabhupāda: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha tṛpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...if does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he remains a fool and go on, all things foolish. I will suggest something; you'll suggest something; he'll suggest something. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). This is not...
Acyutānanda: Travel by the speed of mind.
Prabhupāda: Mental concoction... They'll never be able to come the right conclusion. Simply they'll create disturbances. That's all. Utpāṭyaiva kalpate.(?)Just see. He is working so hard, getting money. Still he cannot provide a nice dāya.
Acyutānanda: He'll gamble his money.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Acyutānanda: They will gamble.
Prabhupāda: For gambling, they have got money, eh? (end)
Prabhupāda: It is not popular, not very.
Kīrtirāja: Yeah, and they aren't even popular, no.
Dayānanda: Popular amongst the mūḍhas.
Prabhupāda: They are mūḍhas. They do not know anything, and they write books.
Devotee: Didn't that Dr. Radhakrishnan go crazy at the end of life, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtirāja: I think you have visited him...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kīrtirāja: ...and he was not able to even talk.
Prabhupāda: No.
Kīrtirāja: How can that be God? (end)
Prabhupāda: Drying process is for many, many years one has tried to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, for many, many lives, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). When he actually becomes man of knowledge he surrenders unto God. Otherwise he is lost. His drying process may take three minute or three millions years.
Guru-kṛpā: But that knowledge that Kṛṣṇa is everything comes by Kṛṣṇa's mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is already there, but if you are not able to take it...
Pañcadravida: Then you don't even have to hear from a self-realized soul. Simply by seeing him you can become completely purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Both required. The matches must be also all right, and the wood must be also. Then there is fire. If one of them is defective, then, it will not.... But when you go to the fire, you become dry. But willfully we put again water. This nonsense business makes us late. This process is already there, how to become dry. But instead of taking the process, we put water. Then how it will be ignited? The rules and regulations is the drying process. But without following the rules and regulation, if you again become a victimized by māyā, then there is water and again dry it. So this is going on, watering and drying, watering and drying. No straightforward process for drying. That will help. But difficulty is that we dry and again water.
Prabhupāda: Then what remains? The teeth is dangerous. Yes, how condemned life. And we had to pass through all these. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine lakhs of forms in the water. Crocodile is one of these. Just see how accurate is Vedic information. Never says "ten lakhs" or "eight lakhs." Nine lakhs. Now, if you don't believe, count. Go ahead. Count. How this knowledge is there? Nobody can go within the water to count how many forms are there, but how the Vedas gives the knowledge perfectly? Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. This is Vedic knowledge. Where you cannot reach and you refer to Vedas, you'll get the knowledge. That is Vedas, perfect knowledge. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given the example: stool is impure, rejectable. Everyone knows. Veda says, "No, cow dung is pure." And you examine it; you'll find it is pure. That is Vedic knowledge. When you get information from the Vedas, it is perfectly right. So it is easier to take knowledge from the Vedas. Then you'll become perfect in knowledge. There is no question of researching. That is not possible. What you'll research? How many animals are there, aquatics are there, in the water? It is beyond your experience. Is there any scientist who can go within the water and count how many aquatic forms are there? Nothing you can do. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣā viṁśati.(?)What information we have got? Even you cannot speak perfectly well about this universe. We are not able even to speak perfectly what is there in the moon planet. They are going, trying to go, and coming back. And still, they are claiming perfection as perfect as God. Just see how lunatic they are.
Prabhupāda: That is a nonsense. You make such root and bring water here. Then your scientific knowledge will be proved. But you cannot do it. Can you do it? We are spending so much money for bringing water. Bring that root and bring water.
Madhudviṣa: We have done better. We can do it faster. Within, within a few minutes we can bring so much water here. You must...
Prabhupāda: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.
Madhudviṣa: Well, we have money. So we have become more...
Prabhupāda: No, you have no money. You have not money. Therefore you are working on my order. You have no money. You have no money.
Madhudviṣa: I know.
Prabhupāda: I know it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole British Museum means stolen properties from many countries, that's all, especially in India.
Yaśodānandana: Prabhupāda, I have heard that previously in India, some paṇḍita says, that when they used to put the jewels on the Deities they used to put some mantra that, when they install the Deity, that "Whoever takes this mantra will never be able to have peace or will die," some curse mantras.
Yaśodānandana: Whoever steals the jewels.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is possible.
Rādhāvallabha: Even just recently they were laughing at this curse, and they took the jewel from Sītā-devī in their car to go to the museum, and their car crashed on the way.
Pañca-draviḍa: Did they die?
Rādhāvallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.
Prabhupāda: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has crashed.
Prabhupāda: What do you want more? "But he has not suffered. He has simply died." This is the argument. He has suffered. But "No, no, there was no suffering. He has simply died." What is the more suffering than death?
Prabhupāda: I think in Mauritius there is good field. They adopted culture.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The problem in Mauritius has been that either they don't know how to collect, or they say it's a very poor country and they're not able to get funds to start any kind of a dynamic program.
Prabhupāda: They cannot chant even?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Chanting they do.
Prabhupāda: That is wanted. We don't want money. So give them directly.
Jagat-guru: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda.... (too faint)
Prabhupāda: South African mission, very good.
Devotee: At this present moment, Prabhupāda, we have a really unique situation, the best of all.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Devotee: A unique situation in South Africa, because there are many Europeans that are being drafted into the Army, but they will not allow the Indians to be drafted. They don't want them to go into the military forces because they're afraid they're too intelligent.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Some of our brahmacārīs, they've been drafted into the army. We've lost several devotees like that, because it's very hard for them to maintain their Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the army.
Prabhupāda: Conscription.
Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you very much. (break) ...Bhagavad-gītā. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi, "Sex life which is not against religious principles, I am that." Not that sex life, as soon as you like, sex. That is not gṛhastha. That is gṛhamedhī. Dharmāviruddha. Dharma-aviruddha means simply for begetting nice child you can have..., not for enjoyment. Putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. This is Vedic principle. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. A bhāryā, wife, is accepted only for having son. Not for any other purpose. Putraḥ-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This is material side, but still, it is religious. First education is brahmacārī, how to train him to avoid sex life. And still if he's not able, then he is allowed to become a gṛhastha, a little concession. Otherwise, the whole Vedic civilization is: how to avoid sex life. Brahmacārī—no sex life. Vānaprastha—no sex life. Sannyāsa—no sex life. Only gṛhastha, under control. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhastha does not mean one who is doing everything whimsically on account of getting this concession. He's not gṛhastha, he's gṛhamedhī. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām (SB 2.1.2). Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ, apaśyatām ātma-tattvam... (SB 2.1.2). Gṛhamedhī means he does not know what is spiritual life. That is gṛhamedhī. And gṛhastha means he knows what is spiritual life, and he lives on that status. That is gṛhastha. Gṛhamedhī's definition is.... Everything is there in the śāstra. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. They do not know what is the aim of life. It is like something, something like cats and dogs. They do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). (break) So he'll speak to you. You know English, you can read books.
Prabhupāda: Not now. They sold in the beginning. They're so hopeful now that "We shall go to the moon." Some family (inaudible) "Oh, scientific advancement. Yes, they go to the moon. So I have got money. Why not purchase a ticket so I can go to the moon?" There are many persons in your country who can very easily pay $50,000 for purchasing tickets for going to the moon planet.
Hari-śauri: It's like Rāvaṇa's promise of being able to go to the heavenly planets by climbing up the staircase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...believed in the words of śāstra. Even I am not scientist, still I shall.... It is all childish. And it has proved childish. I do not say that I am better than the scientists. No. But on the words of śāstra, I say this is childish. They'll never be able to go to the moon. (break) The Americans who are here, mostly they are tourists. They're not residents.
Devotee (6): Some of them are retired, I believe.
Prabhupāda: Some, they're some. Otherwise they are tourists.
Devotee (3): Man has created so many problems in the environment, so they don't think that the problem is man's way of doing things, or its heart. They simply consider if we can make some adjustments in the environment, then everything will go on very nicely.
Prabhupāda: They will try to make adjustments with material nature, everything will be failure. ...hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā. They'll never be able to adjust. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. That's all. (break) ...adjustment to lie down in the skyscraper, and now they are coming. Why they have come to the ground? Punaḥ punaś carvita. Sometimes on the ground, sometimes the sky. (break) They reject the stool and urine and then accept it. They do like that. (laughing) (break) It is rejected. It cannot be utilized. In India still the system is they use metal; when it is broken you can sell it. They take half price and supply new.... They use metal pots, and the (inaudible) is that when it is broken and old we can exchange with new plates. And this kind of bowls you have to throw away. You cannot utilize.
Ambarīṣa: I just came from Vancouver from the Habitat Conference. The U.N. is having a Habitat Conference in Vancouver, and they (indistinct) is not united, their discussions and arguments. Sometimes there are walkouts, so many things, and they're not able to reach any conclusions, they can't agree with each other.
Prabhupāda: How they can? Do you mean to say dogs simply barking, they will come to a conclusion? (chuckles) It is not possible. There is no aim, what is the actual aim of life. So this is very important movement. At least the intelligent class of men, they must understand it thoroughly. Just like there is body. There are different parts, different sections of the body, but the most important section is the brain. Similarly, the important section of society means one who is fully in God consciousness. I.... You can cut my hands, I shall live. You can cut my legs, I shall live. But if you cut my head, (indistinct). So, at the present moment, there are big, big scientists, big, big technologists. That's all right; that is hands and legs. But there is no brain. Therefore in one sense, you can take it as dead society. So in my opinion, I like your country, America. Sometimes I call, "This is my fatherland," because these American boys, they are helping me pushing on this movement. I am very much obliged to these boys. Now, let us take it little more seriously statewise. And if America takes it seriously, other nations will follow. And there is the United Nations Organization in America. And make a nice organization to understand God. United Nations God Consciousness. People will benefit.
Rādhāvallabha: In Russia now they have declared one..., that it is a big crisis. Because their grains did not grow properly, they are not able to produce as much meat, so now one day a week everyone is forced to eat fish. So they are lamenting. They were describing how..., about the good old days were when you could go and buy an entire carcass.
Candanācārya: (break) ...country, build cities and then spend billions of dollars to make the city look like the country.
Prabhupāda: Carvita-carvaṇānām. Chewing the chewed, again and again. This is their position. (japa) (break)
Rāmeśvara: On the calendar it says it is Bhīma-ekādaśī.
Prabhupāda: Bhīma-ekādaśī, yes.
Rāmeśvara: So I've been told that if one fasts on Bhīma-ekādaśī, that it is like fasting on all the ekādaśīs. Is that true?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Ekādaśī is meant for fasting, either Bhīma or Arjuna. But we cannot fast, therefore we have to take little fruits and.... Otherwise, ekādaśī means fasting.
Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And in the bills they are writing the.... Why this hypocrisy? Why this hypocrisy? In the schools, colleges, you are forbidding, "Don't talk of God," and on the bills you are writing, "In God We Trust." That means if the bill is not paid, don't be dissatisfied, you trust in God. (laughs) Although I'm giving you a piece of paper, don't hesitate to take it. Trust in God, it will be paid. They write, "I promise to pay," but people may not have faith in this word. Actually, I'm paying you hundred rupees—or a thousand rupees-worth currency note, but actually it is paper. But only on faith and trust I'm accepting it, it is one thousand dollars. That much. In last war, the Germany, marks note were thrown in the street. And the bunch of note, taken to the confectioner, "Give me a piece of bread," There is no bread; they throw away. It happened, actually. So these notes are accepted on the understanding that the government will pay. But time may be there when government may be not able to pay. And it has become practically experienced in the last war. So everything should be done scientifically. If we say that in God we trust, then we must know what is God, whether actually we can put our faith and trust in Him, whether He is trustworthy, what is that God. This science should be introduced. There is science; we are preaching that science. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to teach Kṛṣṇa science, science of Kṛṣṇa, science of God. So the government should take up, American government, and cooperate with us. Teach the people the science of God. Then it will be a great, benevolent welfare activity. Simply giving their money to the poor, to the needy, will not help them.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. It was sold to somebody else. But because it is an old church, the government municipality would not allow to break it. Then the man who purchased, he was obliged to sell to us.
Hari-śauri: That's an exact duplicate of the situation that happened in Melbourne. That place was sold to a property developer, and then the National Trust put a classification on it, so he was not able to break it down, and neither could he utilize the extra space in the yard for building flats, because the council would not allow him. So then we.... Originally they would not sell to us.
Prabhupāda: Same thing here. Nobody would purchase it on account of this black quarter. Nobody was purchasing, ready to purchase.
Hari-śauri: So Kṛṣṇa is saving some very nice places for us.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's trick. Everyone talks of the "We Eastern, we believe in this," and "We Western, we believe in this." You remain peaceful, everyone. Everyone is thinking like this. We have no such thing, Eastern, Western. It is fact. For everyone, it is good. Eastern, Western, we don't take. Several times, this question.... I talk, I spoke in the American Embassy in Calcutta. They gave me the subject matter, "East and West." So I, in the beginning, I began to speak that we have no such dual..., East and West.
Scheverman: Yes, we can certainly agree with that.
Prabhupāda: So, we have to teach people how to refrain from sinful activities. Then, when he's pure, then God will reveal. If we keep them in sinful life, at the same time we want to preach them, it will not be possible. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that those who are animal killer, they cannot understand about God. Vinā paśu-ghnāt. So if in the human society unnecessary animal killing is encouraged, he will never be able to understand what is God. The greatest sinful activity, paśu-ghnāt. So in human society, unnecessarily animal killing is going on. So they are entangled in sinful activities; therefore they are unable to understand what is God.
Kern: Are you speaking specifically about all animal killing, Your Excellency? Or, how do you speak of animal killing? In other words, vegetarian living, is that what you're speaking of?
Prabhupāda: No, animal means the four-legged animals. Vegetables are not called animals, even in dictionary.
Kathy Kerr: Are you doing anything to try and contact people, the educated men, to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, many. Many educated. They are coming, trying to understand. But it requires little brain. So-called educated with dull brain cannot understand. So to make their brain finer to understand, we are prohibiting four things: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. If one refrains from these four prohibited things, then he can develop his brain to understand. And if one indulges in these four things, his brain will never be able to understand. Just like a dog having sexual intercourse on the street, so if I request the dog that "Don't do this, it is not very good," he'll never understand.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, his question is, "Swami Vivekananda has given a positive suggestion that one of the best ways for harijanas to command respect among all sections of people is to learn Sanskrit, the study of which is being neglected even by brāhmaṇas today. What incentives can be given to harijanas to learn Sanskrit, the repository of Indian culture and religion?"
Prabhupāda: That is another misgiving. They will never be able to learn Sanskrit, and neither it is possible that by learning Sanskrit they will be elevated. There are many Sanskrit scholars. So how they are elevated? They are rotting. It is not a good suggestion, this. If the harijana actually becomes harijana, then it will benefit. That training we can give. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we can make a harijana, a so-called, I mean to say, camaras, bhangis... Now they understand harijana means he must be a camara or bhangi. But that is not the actual... harijana means devotee, "The man of Hari." So in spite of their illiteracy in Sanskrit language, we can make him harijana, actually. So why do you take the trouble of learning Sanskrit? Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni means low-grade birth. So anyone. That includes the camaras, bhangis, they can be purified if they take to the shelter of Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. The best thing is to induce them to come to Kṛṣṇa. Then they will be purified. And the simple method is recommended by Kṛṣṇa Himself and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, His incarnation: this kīrtana. Engage them in saṅkīrtana movement which is being pushed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and they will be purified. They don't require to learn Sanskrit even. As he, it is. Let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they will be purified. And if you want to teach them Sanskrit, it will take three thousand years. (laughter) That is impossible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are not producing anything.
Prabhupāda: They'll never be able. Challenge. "That we cannot say." As soon as you say "Make an egg," "That we cannot say." And they'll chant "Chemical evolution, chemical evolution" and get Nobel Prize. Rascals. But how the people are so foolish that they believe in this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Without spiritual master there is nothing they can say.
Prabhupāda: This is very simple. You see everything, white and yellow. Produce. Chemicals are white. Some chemicals are yellow also. Just like hydroform(?). It is yellow. And soda bicarb, white, or potash cyanide is white. So you have got so many chemicals, combine and pack it in a cell, and put underneath the incubator. Why rascal do not do this? Beat them with shoes. "Rascal, you are cheating in this way." Beat them with shoes. That's all. That is the only punishment.
Prabhupāda: Yes, the prophet can speak. Prophet is representative of God.
Guest (2): Yes, it is just like that, sir, just you said it is like a small pond and big pond. No doubt, He is a big light. You cannot that thing. But what my confusion is, is this thing, that we have to, and a bhakta will also, with a limited sense, will never be able to go to that extent unless he has to surrender to some bigger power than him. And what I think...
Prabhupāda: That we, we take Kṛṣṇa as the bigger power.
Guest (2): Sure, we have to take. This is my... We have to take a bigger power. Otherwise...
Prabhupāda: So if we take Kṛṣṇa as bigger power, there is no controversy. Whatever He says you have to accept.
Guest (2): No, we have to take like this. Just like we have to take even some of this, any statement you make, we are going to take it because we think people of your status, who have experienced the life, which I didn't do, they are the authority on that thing.
Prabhupāda: No, if you accept Kṛṣṇa authority, then at least He is bigger than you.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Because the asuras, or the so-called scholars of Vedic..."
Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.
Bali-mardana: Because he's eating, and he is not able to go and hunt, they send them out to die.
Prabhupāda: The Communists also, they'll do. All old men should be killed. That time is coming. Don't become old. (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are teaching us to remain young forever, Prabhupāda.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: One must become Kṛṣṇa conscious to become young.
Prabhupāda: So many difficulties will come unless there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66), if you want to be happy.
Prabhupāda: So much vacant land in your country.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, everywhere in the world. When we fly in the airplane, every country, mostly it's vacant land. It's only these big demoniac cities.
Rāmeśvara: Their philosophy is first we'll conquer nature, then we'll talk about self-control. That is one philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Which is impossible. They'll never be able. You can control nature only by self-control. Otherwise, it is not possible. Ajitendriyāṇām. Ajitendriya means those who cannot control the sense, sense organs.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Famous address because you were there, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Hmm. Number one hundred.
Hari-śauri: Seventy-second Street.
Prabhupāda: One hundred, Seventy-second Street.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I had little platform. So on that platform...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are the most bold person in the whole world, Prabhupāda.
Devotee (1): We will never be able to do what you have done.
Prabhupāda: Alone I was doing that. And then gradually one or two boys began to come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did any of them come up here who are still with you now?
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Only when you went downtown did the permanent men come. No one was visiting you up here? Hayagrīva?
Prabhupāda: No, they came there, Second Avenue.
Hari-śauri: Mukunda?
Prabhupāda: All of them.
Interviewer: Young men do not generally possess a great deal of wisdom.
Prabhupāda: No, if he's trained up. Just like here we have got so many young men. They are trained up. So there is no prohibition that a young man cannot become a sannyāsa. If he's able, he can take sannyāsa from the very beginning. But if he's not able, let him enter into household life and then remain as householder up to fiftieth year, then retire, then take sannyāsa. It is not an enforcement. A gradual process. But the ultimate end is to become free from all material attachment and completely devote life for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the ultimate end. Because human life is meant for that purpose, self-realization or spiritual realization, that opportunity must be given to all human beings. Unfortunately at the present moment the civilization has no scope for spiritual realization. They live like other animals, eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That's all. They do not know there is another life, spiritual life, and neither there is any education or institution to educate them. Now we are trying for that purpose.
Prabhupāda: And then lick up. "Here is American flag." (laughter) And then doglike urine(?) (within?) (laughter) So lick up, then doglike urine(?) (women?). It is useless. (laughter) Dog's business. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they feel they should explore the unknown.
Prabhupāda: That will remain everlastingly unknown. They'll never be able to push. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyaḥ. What is this speed? Even with the speed of mind and air they go many, many millions of years, it will still be... This verse of Brahma-saṁhitā, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'py asti avicintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). It is inconceivable. It will never be done. They have some vague idea, "There is no life. There is this. There is that." That's... Real knowledge they'll never get. Real knowledge you'll get from Bhāgavata.
Rādhāvallabha: They don't even know what is inside the ocean, what to speak of other planets.
Prabhupāda: And if they take photograph of the ocean, what they will understand what is within the ocean? Suppose they have taken photograph of the ocean. Does it mean the full knowledge of ocean?
Harikeśa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?
Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported they would not touch. The mill cloth, because they were imported, no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty... (indistinct) sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense, drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way. England's work in India." And they were given facilities, those who were English educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici... Not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja. English way of living, with fork and... Yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, whatever is foreign. In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels, and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken. And culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.
Ali: These are the different stages.
Prabhupāda: Yes, of coming to the platform of spiritual senses. And when you come to the spiritual senses, then you can understand God, you can understand your relationship with God, you can talk with God, you can serve God, and so on, so on. The same example, just like iron rod as it is, it is not able to burn anything. But when the iron rod is sufficiently hot, red-hot, touch anywhere, it will burn. Similarly, from this physical platform, if you begin these spiritual activities, then stage will come when you'll act only spiritually, there will be no more material activity. That is the stage of bhakti, that is real platform of bhakti, when one is acting only spiritually, there is no material activity. That is the process. So if we adopt that process, it is possible to come to the platform of spiritual sense activity. That is possible. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is purification process. And when one is completely purified, then he acts with his spiritual senses.
Devotee: What is... What is real meditation?
Prabhupāda: Real meditation is to find out the Supersoul within the core of the heart. That is real meditation. God is situated in everyone's heart, so the yogis, they try to find out the Supersoul within the heart. That is real yogi. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginam. This is real yogi, trying to contact the Supersoul. They are searching after the God in His all-pervading feature. But, ah, some of them, they want to become one. That is asuric. One with God, that is asuric. Because they are being defeated by God, so therefore they want to become God to stop this defeat. That is asuric. Therefore they will never be able to be, but they are trying for it.
Jñānagamya: It is the highest blasphemy.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jñānagamya: It is the highest blasphemy, isn't it? If one says, "I am God."
Prabhupāda: No, highest ignorance, highest rascaldom. (laughter) Yes. How one can become God? If one can become God, that means the such-and-such, he was God. Then how he has become dog? That is another rascaldom, ambition.
Dr. Patel: Mām eti so'rjuna.
Prabhupāda: That is perfect. Saṁsiddhiṁ paramaṁ gataḥ. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gītā, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?
Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macauley's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "everything Indian is bad."
Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.
Dr. Patel: Our differential, or (Hindi) has created all this rot.
Prabhupāda: It is not our, it is human society's.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) We allowed everyone to be here unawares. If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.
Prabhupāda: Because we have no, that cātur-varṇa system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). You have given up Kṛṣṇa's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. There is no kṣatriya.
Interviewer (3): Do you want this to become a part of the educational system here?
Prabhupāda: This is the first education. Otherwise it is animal. Animal does not require absolute education. Animal is not able to understand what is self, what is God. But a man can. Therefore the man's first business is to understand this self-realization.
Interviewer (3): Do you think it will come to India via the West now?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow.
Interviewer (3): Will it come to India via the West?
Prabhupāda: India is already there. You are neglecting. Why don't you admit that you are neglecting?
Interviewer (3): Will that neglect go, disappear, through the West?
Prabhupāda: How will that? If you don't like it, how it will go?
Interviewer (4): No, no, my colleague's point is, we have not been accepting, we are not able to understand Bhagavad-gītā on our own. Just because first Western people understand, and because of their...
Prabhupāda: No, no, you have neglected. My charge is that you have neglected. Bhagavad-gītā is there. Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in India. Bhagavad-gītā is there. I think every home has got a Bhagavad-gītā, but if you do not study it, you neglect it, that is your fault.
Akṣayānanda: I had requested for the flowers, Viśvambhara said twelve rupees you had decided last night.
Prabhupāda: Twelve rupees, thirteen rupees...
Akṣayānanda: Twelve, thirteen. Actually today, I wanted for today but the flower man was not able to... We could not catch him in time. But from tomorrow it will start, definitely.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that one who is cheating you, he will cheat in twelve rupees, also he will cheat in fifty rupees.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: He knows how to cheat you.
Akṣayānanda: Yes, they're expert.
Prabhupāda: Where do they get flowers?
Akṣayānanda: There are two flower men. They come here from Bankibehari. Now Viśvambhara has made two, because they make a competition between each other and therefore they keep down. But...
Prabhupāda: Nobody is honest.
Haṁsadūta: To kill India's spiritual status?
Prabhupāda: That was their policy. Because there was one Britisher politician, Lord McCauley. His report was, he studied the whole Indian situation. They were very expert politicians. He reported that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them. They must be trained up in such a way that they would think their own culture as useless; this Western culture is very good. That impression must be there. Otherwise, you cannot rule over them." So the education and everything was going on very silently on this principle.
Haṁsadūta: Imperceptibly they introduced this.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is their administration. And that was going on for the last two hundred years. So India lost. (break) ...educated persons they lost. And the mass of people, they were not educated. They have not lost, but they don't find any good example by the leaders.
Prabhupāda: No. I am daily canvassing Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, "Print book! I don't want to keep the money in the bank, convert into the books and keep it in our..." I am asking.
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Whatever little money I've got, I don't want to keep in the bank. I want to convert it and purchase paper, print book. Then these rascals will never be able to take anything from us.
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: That I am asking every time. Ask Gopāla that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And they are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So, which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Sewers activity's all abominable.
Dr. Patel: But this idea of eating a fetus is extremely abominable. You can't think of it. I mean a baby having developed, we can't imagine.
Prabhupāda: But you must know it. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.
Prabhupāda: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in, sometimes in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Kane.
Dr. Patel: Gomath, gangath.(?)
Prabhupāda: No no. Kane. After... Because formerly the girls were married early. So after getting puberty there is one ceremony, it is called diti-abhi-bha.(?) Another ceremony. And then she goes to her husband's house. So she was going there with presentation of father, mother. So she was covered. So another young girl, up-to-date, she was doing like this. They were girls. One can touch another. So once, twice. When it made thrice, that village girl slapped her, "Hut!" I said, "Yes, you have done right." She was thinking, the city girl was thinking, "What is this nonsense?" She wanted to criticize... (laughs)
Yogi Amrit Desai: Yes, very rigid.
Prabhupāda: Very, very. But if one is able to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu and receives a little mercy... He is very merciful. He is prepared to be merciful to anyone, any fallen soul. But if we take it, His mercy, if we simply follow His instructions, then our life is successful. Life is successful. Yat-kāruṇya-kaṭākṣa-vaibhavavatāṁ taṁ gauram eva stumaḥ. Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī... Even if we are not able to take His whole mercy, a little part of His mercy, then our life...
Yogi Amrit Desai: Before I leave, can they just stand here and have darśana and then we go? Can they come in?
Prabhupāda: Who?
Yogi Amrit Desai: My sister and my brother-in-law. Those...
Prabhupāda: They are here?
Yogi Amrit Desai: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Just darśana. So they won't take too much energy.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Yogi Amrit Desai: I'll call them.
Prabhupāda: So Govinda dāsī, you are feeling all right? Like this atmosphere? So Caitya-guru, your program, that you are going to construct temple there? (break) Aiye (break) You must accept the standard way, then you'll get siddhi, you'll get sukha and parāṁ gati. Unless you follow the standard way, na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim. So if you have interest in bhakti-yoga, then you practice the bhakti-yoga properly. That will make you successful. Otherwise, teṣām asau kleśala eva śiṣyate, simply whatever labor you are doing, that is your profit and no other profit. Kleśala eva. Nānyad yathā sthūla-tuṣāvaghātinām. The example is tuṣa. Tuṣa you know? The skin of rice? Husk. Yes. So if there is paddy, if you beat it, you'll get rice.
Prabhupāda: Huh? That is the truth. Actually they do not know, and they cheat others, speaking about God. That is the difficulty. All rascals are doing that. And if I say, "All rascals," it is little harsh, but it has to be said. They do not know what is God, and they speak of God. Let them say frankly that "I do not know what is God." That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). If they are sincere, then after many, many births... Kleśo 'dhikataras teṣām avyaktāsakta... (BG 12.5). They do not know, and they will not accept ācāryopāsanam. The ācārya says, Rāmānujācārya says, Madhvācārya says, big, big ācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... They will not believe them. They will speculate in their nonsense speculation. This is the difficulty. Without going to the ācārya... Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is the Vedic process, how one can know. But they will speculate. Ciraṁ vicinvan. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ jānāti tattvam... Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayam, leśānugṛhīta eva hi jānāti tattvaṁ na cānya eko 'pi ciraṁ vicinvan (SB 10.14.29). One who has little mercy of God upon him, he can understand, but others, they can speculate for many, many births; still, they'll never be able. Athāpi te deva padāmbuja-dvayaṁ leśānugṛhīta jānāti tattvam. Leśānugṛhīta eva hi. Leśa. One cannot know God full. That is not possible because you are limited; He is unlimited. Still, if one has learned, at least if one has accepted, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Bas," his knowledge is perfect. If he simply believes only that "Here is God," he can understand. They don't believe that Kṛṣṇa is God. "Eh... He may be very powerful...," so on. Kṛṣṇa says aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). These rascals will not believe. "So what is there for me?" Mūḍho nābhijānāti. If they remain persistently mūḍhas, who can make them understand? Very difficult. (Hindi) Gandhi did not believe in Kṛṣṇa. Huh?
Prabhupāda: The condition is that I'll invest money for Oriya language books, and you'll sell-half the collection for temple, and half the collection for printing again, the same principle.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They won't be able to collect one crore by selling books.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if they can, I have no objection. I can give them ten crores.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they'll never be able to...
Prabhupāda: No, that you cannot say. It is all in the hands of Kṛṣṇa. Not one crore. Say a few lakhs. He's ready to go town to town, village, in Orissa. He wants that in my absence somebody must be there to look after the construction. That is quite reasonable.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, definitely.
Prabhupāda: So I have told them "Any amount I can invest. You print book and sell." That is my open secret. Print books, and distribute, and spend half in whichever life you do and half, again print books. That is my ambition (vision?). I want to see our philosophy is widely spread by different literatures. That I want to do.
Mr. Gupta: By God's grace I'm a very successful man. I'm youngest chief mechanical engineer on the Central Railway. I know kāma, krodha, lobha, moha—all are, taken to extreme, it's pāpa. I know it. But when they overcome in the heat of the moment, they you're not able to retract yourself. It's only when...
Dr. Patel: Then... Then...
Prabhupāda: No, let him. That you have to practice, how to use kāma, krodha. That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Kāma means you have a strong desire to do something. That is kāma. So convert it, this kāma desire, for Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. And persons who are envious of the devotees, you become angry upon them. You have got this quality, kāma, krodha, lobha, but you can utilize it. Just like Hanumān. He became very angry, and he set fire in the Lanka. Unless one is very angry, he cannot do that. But that krodha was applied to the demon. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we can utilize kāma, krodha, moha, bewilderment. When we cannot find out a bhakta, then we should be bewildered. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. So therefore bhakti process means that everything has to be purified. Krodha, Hanumān's krodha to set fire Laṅkā, it is purified krodha. But they cannot understand the krodha, how it is purified. But krodha can be purified. When it is bhakta-dveṣi-jane... Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example. He said, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But when Nityānanda Prabhu was injured, He became so angry, He immediately said, "Bring my cakra. I shall kill the Jagāi-Mādhāi."
Mr. Asnani: All relationship goes away.
Prabhupāda: Mṛtyuḥ ahaṁ sarva-haraś ca. "I take away."
Mr. Asnani: Prabhupāda, why people are not able to understand this?
Prabhupāda: Fools! Mūḍho nābhijā...
Mr. Asnani: Even we are encircling ourselves in the desires, cage.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param... They do not know the aim of life. Therefore apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). Cannot see what is the aim of life. Therefore it is the duty of the parents. That is advised by Prahlāda Mahārāja. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān: (SB 7.6.1) "From the very beginning of life they should be taught about this Bhāgavata-dharma." That is brahmacārī. Brahmacārī, train him to be self-controlled... If I ask you, "Give me your sons. We shall teach him how to become self-controlled," you'll laugh. Because you know, "What will be the benefit by becoming self-controlled? There is struggle for existence. He has to earn money, maintain himself." I have got this experience.
Girirāja: Yes, they take it that the hereditary qualities that a person inherits is determined by these genes. So now they're thinking that if they can control the genes, they can create their own type of human being according to their own...
Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows.
Prabhupāda: Allowance? It is not allowance, but give him instruction. It is up to him to follow or not to follow.
Hari-śauri: But we cannot give any compromise.
Prabhupāda: No. This is the way. "But you are not able? All right, take little more time."
Hari-śauri: So, say like one point now that's coming up more and more is that these married couples, the women want a divorce or get another husband.
Prabhupāda: But we should not implicate.
Hari-śauri: So we cannot encourage divorce.
Prabhupāda: No. We do not meddle matters in that way very much. That is a sideline.
Rāmeśvara: And one thing about government that we see, at least in America, is that each time there is an election the candidates may make so many pledges, "I think I'll go this way."
Prabhupāda: No, election is going on under some rules and regulations, so you can make election under Kṛṣṇa conscious government rules and regulations. That can be done. Legislative assembly, the senators, they must be all first-class brāhmaṇas. Otherwise he cannot be elected. This is should be introduced. Unless one is following the brahminical principles, he cannot be elected. He must give up these four principles of sinful life. He should not accept any salary. Very much learned scholar in Vedic literature. Then he will be elected.
Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice."
Gurukṛpā: You know the story?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass. Anitya saṁsāre... More than. He's destined to change everything, anitya, everything nonpermanent, but he is illusioned—"Yes, we shall make it permanent." This is moha. Which he will never be able to do, he is expecting... "We shall do it.
Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.
Hari-śauri: They'll never be able to prove that...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, we have to say, "We have never tried to brainwash. We have done exactly according to śāstra, authority. Here is the evidence. We have not manufactured anything. The evidence is here." They must read all the books. They cannot reject. The Hare Kṛṣṇas... That is their charge. They'll find in every page Kṛṣṇa at least ten times, that "This is Hare Kṛṣṇa." All the books, there must be Kṛṣṇa's name: "This is Hare Kṛṣṇa." I think you should take defense, in that way.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. But you cannot say that He does not come to showing mercy to a prophet. He may come if He likes. That is mission. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). One who is actually devotee, prophet, he's always anxious to see what they (indistinct). So in order to favor them, (Sanskrit). What is their proposition?
Pṛthu-putra: In the story of Koran they say Muhammad once asked to see God, and God's answer was, "You're not able to see Me."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. At least he could hear Him. So that is possible. Not that necessarily one has to see Him, but he can hear Him. Now, you have said that Muhammad heard Him, so God can speak. So you can hear. So where is the objection?
Pṛthu-putra: No objection.
Prabhupāda: Muhammad... If somebody can hear Him, somebody can see Him also. You cannot deny because they're all senses. To hear God means with my senses we appreciate Him. Similarly, eyes are also one of the senses. Now if somebody sees Him, where is the objection? If somebody can hear Him, where is the objection if somebody can see Him? Reasonably, there is no objection. In this way... So God is omnipotent. If some of His prophet devotees wants to hear Him, he can do that, if wants to see Him, he can do that.
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So by propaganda, it is happened. Although he is not ghost, he began to think that "Maybe I have become ghost."
Harikeśa: In Austria something very, very nice has happened. We were never able before to sell books because whenever Germans went there the Austrian government caught them and charged us thousands of dollars' fine and threw us out of the country. But now I've sent one devotee who was blooped for one year. His name is Cakravartī. He used to be the most important person in Germany.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: And so by your mercy I managed to drag him back by his hair one day, and I sent him and his wife to Austria, and now they are doing something amazing. They never spend even one penny. Everywhere they go, they beg as monks that someone should please give them a place to stay and something to eat, and they're begging gasoline and they're selling so many books, it's inconceivable. The bookstores...
Prabhupāda: German language. German language.
Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.
Guest (1): I think they should be invited here to see what is being done.
Prabhupāda: No, they know it. Study the whole history of the world. What the big, big leaders have done? They are not new leaders. Before them, all over the world there were big, big leaders. Napoleon promised so many things. At last, he had to drink horse's urine and die. When he was captured by the Englishmen he wanted water and he was given horse urine. Envisioned, "I shall make my promise, the most important stage." The Britishers, so many, Gladstone, Churchill, Lloyd George(?), British Empire. Have they done any benefit? Indira made plan, Nehru family will be English terrorist. Now what is her position? So they studying history. Still, they are promising. Mūḍha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you advised Gandhi that he should retire.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I advised Gandhi that he should retire. He never retired. That's all right. And our program is, they have chucked out. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. You show your all nonsense ability up to fifty years. Don't go more than that. Because you are rascal, you will never be able to do anything, but jump like monkey up to fifty years, not more than that. Monkey jumping may be continued up to fifty years. Then retire. They will continue monkey jumping up to the last point of death.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he'll jump into the grave.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. All the duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there are persons who are not narādhama. For them there must be. Diamond shop is not for everyone, but there are some persons who can purchase diamonds. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). It is not meant for everyone. So this is India's culture.
Prabhupāda: Make friends with them about real knowledge.
Girirāja: And then Mr. Bajaj... Mr. Bajaj was on the same plane going to Poona.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Girirāja: So he wants to arrange another meeting of the Gītā Conference. So he's thinking of either Kurukṣetra or Vṛndāvana. So I suggested that they should hold it at our Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. So he's seriously thinking of it. But he's not very much intelligent. I mean, he's not able to understand the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: They are influenced by these rascals, Vinod Bhave and company.
Girirāja: Actually he has no idea what the Bhagavad-gītā says.
Prabhupāda: What he has done?
Girirāja: Who? Bajaj?
Prabhupāda: No, this Vinod Bhave?
Girirāja: None of them has done anything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Training up some women.
Prabhupāda: No, he's still present. Eight dozens of women, they are residing somewhere.
Prabhupāda: It is very kind of you. So...
Indian Astronomer: As Patita-pāvana dāsa told me... I informed him, I am a student of religion and also working for religion. Single-hand, I made attempt to propagate Vedic concept and Vedic religion for the past forty years. I am not able to find out any help. But fortunately, when I informed about Your Holiness and saw in newspapers also, I have found you are the incarnation of Indian gods, (Prabhupāda chuckles) from my point of view, because the mission which is not fulfilled by other ācāryas, even Swami Vivekananda, so many. I know... I studied all variety of prophets. But it is only fulfilled by Your Holiness.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Indian Astronomer: Because we must place our Vedas before the people on the way of science without sacrificing tradition. It is also applicable to our minds. So all things are accumulated in Your Holiness, thoughts and...
Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?
Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes. Oh, yes, yes, thoroughly.
Indian Astronomer: Great estimation, all your books. Even Christ is not able to do some things. But all our ācāryas incarnated in your body and your thinking. I know guru-ācārya... I made a contact with your ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha. I have made contact with him in Madras. Twice I met him.
Prabhupāda: He is now dead.
Indian Astronomer: No, that I know. I know.
Prabhupāda: He is my Godbrother.
Indian Astronomer: Ah.
Prabhupāda: So you live in Madras?
Indian Astronomer: No, not in Madras. Mogun. Near the Madras also, by one of the yajñas there. But my agni-hotra place is at Kumbha-grama(?). We are following agni-hotra tradition for more than ten generations. I myself performed so many yajñas. And now I am performing yajñas also, day and night or morning and evening.
Prabhupāda: So...
Indian Astronomer: I am also a great lover of Bhāgavata. That is my life.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Indian Astronomer: Bhāgavata is my solace of my life.
Prabhupāda: So we are presenting this planetarium...
Indian Astronomer: Bhāgavata, yes?
Prabhupāda: From Bhāgavatam.
Indian Astronomer: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: So you can... Why not begin it in my presence?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Begin the drawing now so that Prabhupāda can see it before he leaves.
Indian Astronomer: No, because I am not able to prepare the diagrams and other things. With the help of my friends only I can do. I give the translation to them and all do the work. Simply we can show to them.
Prabhupāda: I have tried to translate it as far as possible, but I am not satisfied.
Indian Astronomer: A deep study of the text is absolutely necessary.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Indian Astronomer: Deep study of text and also with a mind of preparing diagram, study of the..., that is... We ask Padma-bhūṣaṇa(?). How is Padma-bhūṣaṇa...
Prabhupāda: What is your idea of the seven planets, sun...?
Indian Astronomer: You see, planets, in our system planets comes in the history very late.
Prabhupāda: Very?
Indian Astronomer: Late, very.
Prabhupāda: Even by chance it is not paid, don't mind. Business should not suffer. That's all.
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If you can provide, you must, of course, see that business is done. And then they should try to pay. If they are actually not able to pay, don't mind. Is that all right?
Rāmeśvara: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Principle should be they should return back. But if by chance they cannot, don't press. Let them go on with business. But don't be lenient. (laughter)
Jayatīrtha: I think they'll be able to pay.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Rāmeśvara: There's one other item that has been recommended by several persons, Prabhupāda, and that is the will is only a legal document after the maker of the will has departed, so in the interim period, they have suggested an affidavit for any properties or, say, fixed deposits that are in your personal name, and this affidavit would simply state that the purpose of these fixed deposits and properties is for ISKCON. In that way the government will never be able to exact any taxes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there some wording there?
Rāmeśvara: Do you want me to read it?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If Prabhupāda likes.
Rāmeśvara: So we have prepared an affidavit. Shall we read it?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prabhupāda: It is civilization of two-legged animals. They will say now they are taking pleasure. Is there any guarantee that if one has got two children, the government will take care of everything? Two children or three children or hundred children, the government is not able to guarantee. Why this humbug?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Government cannot... This government cannot guarantee anything. They have no power.
Prabhupāda: So why they are so much anxious, "You should not overpopulate"? Even in these days in India, in the interior villages they invite you that "Please come. We have got enough grain, enough milk. You eat with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And they are going forcibly there to give this sterilization. They have no problem.
Śatadhanya: In Māyāpur we went on the boat down the Ganges. So we went... Even the poorest village man, he gave some banana leaves, some papaya—so opulent, fruits, vegetable, everything... (break)
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Make āṭā, kneading very nicely, just like you do for cāpāṭi, but make lump, round balls, around the fire. The same fire upon, one pot rice, one pot ḍāl. And down, these small, round āṭā. Just like you make for cāpāṭi. Go on. Then, after sometimes, you see, everything is prepared. Boil very nicely. Then these ball should be put into ghee, and the ḍāl should be chaunce. It will be first-class.
Prabhupāda: Anywhere. There are lots and hundreds and thousands, but you have to collect them and give them proper education, vidvān, bhaktimān. Kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁvā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. So if you don't educate them as vidvān and bhaktimān, it is just like blind eye, kāṇa, with some disease, simply giving trouble. That's all. Pluck it out. The medical treatment is pluck it out. So what is the use of begetting cats and dogs? According to our Bhāgavata philosophy, if one is not able to beget nice children, then he should not become father-mother. That is real contraceptive. Gurur na sa syāt jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The father-mother's duty is to stop repetition of birth and death. That is real father-mother. Otherwise dog is also doing that. Dog is also begetting children. Man is also begetting. What is the difference? The difference is man should be responsible that "This child who has come to me, this is his last birth. No more birth again." Na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. "I shall train him in such a way..." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is ideal. The means is already there. And Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma ca divyaṁ me yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You can stop your birth and death, your son's birth and death. How? One who knows Kṛṣṇa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He left the day he came here, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That is going on, simply explanation, "I told him." That...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't know what further I could have done, because he left.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then do it like that. That is guḍākeśa. This practice you'll never be able to.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I wanted to do this when we were in Bombay. I was going to write all of the presidents. At that time you advised me that we should wait until something, you know...
Prabhupāda: It is very important to select the names. He is doing alone. "He told me."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't tell him to do it alone. I told him with Gargamuni and Girirāja and himself, they should sign. I told him specifically not to do it alone. And I wanted to write the temple presidents, but you advised me a few months ago not to. I was going to get a list from them, recommended, and then sit with, you know, Gopāla, and decide which of the fifty people chosen...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Don't require. (end)
Mr. Myer: Well, here the problem is that, you see... I'm just wondering what is the form of management, because it may happen that... I attended one committee meetings the other day when GBC was here from Bombay, and I was not able to find out that somebody who normally would take some action... There would have to be one person who has to be given some guidelines, and then he must take action. But then the trouble thing will be, if he has to go to a committee, it will only delay things. One can't really act in... In committees, see, there are different people. They have different opinion, and very little can be consensus of all the different ideas. So I think it's good to have a committee meeting where a man reports the problems, evaluation like, where we have a... I will attend a meeting in England, where... That is about twelve... Yatita Prabhu(?), he was conducting a meeting on a Sunday, and they were trying to take the stock of what had happened in the week and what was the budget for next week. That kind of a meeting is very... Because then there are some statistics. We have some performance of what happened and what we wish to do.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So make... You have to develop. You have to teach them how to do that.
Mr. Myer: Quite right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you had... But he had a reservation that before any change like this can be made, Akṣayānanda Mahārāja should also be acceptable to his proposal, because right now he's managing everything himself. So...
Prabhupāda: That... Whatever I'll say, he'll accept. There is no question of refusing.
Trivikrama: Sargal Singh?
Prabhupāda: No, I'll come to that. So the grocer also thought, "Now I also should shave." Something saying like that. Then another man met him. He also said. He also said. Then at last, one intelligent man, he asked, "Who is this man?" Then again the news come back through the paramparā, (laughter) yes, who is this man. Then he called the man, first, who said. He was a dhobi, and his ass was dead. The ass was dead, so hearing, it has gone so far. The other men... The unintelligent persons are like that. They do not know, inquire what is the real thing. Just like twenty years ago I said, "This is all nonsense, moon-going." And now they are coming: "Oh, it is hoax." So that is the difference. Twenty years before and "This is all childish waste of money. This rascal will never be able to go to the moon." And now they are coming. That is the difference. I said from common sense. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśī. And we read in the Bhāgavatam that to go to the moon planet, one has to execute such yajñas, karma-kāṇḍa. We understand from śāstra. And how this rascal with a machine will go there? That is a common sense. But they do not believe in the words of the śāstra. Rascals, they were bluffed and they believe. Śāstra-cakṣus. Your eyes should be through the śāstra. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma..., na siddhiṁ sa... (BG 16.23). We believe in this. Therefore I said twenty years before. That is the difference. We take the words of śāstra, words of Kṛṣṇa, ultimate. That's all. So we have no difficulty. They do not believe in śāstra. They do not believe in Kṛṣṇa. So they were bluffed. That is the difference. We have... I started this movement. It is not manufactured by me. Take the words of authorities and spread. There is no adulteration. There is no alteration. That is... Mahājano yena gataḥ... (end)
Prabhupāda: That can be done very easily. It can be done very easily, provided government wants. And we can help. We have to follow simply the Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. They are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but they do not follow. They manufacture their own interpretation. That is the difficulty. Otherwise the Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of happy life and entrance, matriculation, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, graduate, and then Caitanya-caritāmṛta, postgraduate. We are therefore presenting three books. So if we follow, our life is successful. But you don't follow. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā is so strong that untruthful things, we take it as truthful. Just like the modern scientists. These rascals, he could not, they cannot, they will never be able to produce life. Still, they are busy: "Yes, we will do. We shall do." The whole world is full of rascals. What they cannot do, what they could not do, what they'll never be able to do... Still, they will persist. This is the difficulty. They have never gone to moon planet, their aeroplane. They cannot go anywhere. You have got plane. They are conditioned. And they are thinking, "We are free." Just like an animal is bound up in a place, and he's going round, here and here. He's thinking the world is round. The world is round. He does not accept that "I am conditioned." They have got now aeroplane, jet plane and so many. Go anywhere. They cannot go. Still, they are proud: "We have measured." This dog's obstinacy of this modern world has killed the whole civilization.
Prabhupāda: Mother says, "Here is your father." That's all. Finish. No test. No question. That is foolishness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was using the word "task." That to... I'll have to bring in Bhakti-prema Swami. Maybe he can speak better. I'm not able to explain. But according to the description in the Bhāgavatam, everything that we've read, it is not petals. So let's... I don't know. On one hand you are asking us to follow the...
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.
Prabhupāda: Restrict, that instead of myself, he has to restrict: "Do this way."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Including go to the court. This boy writes further. He says, "They claimed I was brainwashed by Śrīla Prabhupāda and the devotees, and they were here to get me to think for myself again. They kept me up for ten hours at a time for so-called deprogramming, just blaspheming Śrīla Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa and telling lie after lie. Finally they let me go to sleep, and in the morning it was time for more blaspheming and lies. But by Kṛṣṇa's mercy I was able to escape out the front door of the house," he says, "which was unguarded. I ran down my block barefoot and was able to get to my friend's house. I told him the story. He gave me enough money to get to a nearby temple. There I served Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and had the association of my Godbrothers, who are most dear to me. There I spent the happiest time of my life as a devotee with the association of the Brajabāsīs. Being a devotee of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, there's nothing like it-singing, dancing, taking prasādam, being happy and free from anxiety all the time. It is just a blissful life. All Kṛṣṇa wants is for us to be happy with Him. I called my parents and told them that I was doing fine and that I had even gained seven pounds in weight. They had the police looking for me all over the place in only a minute, and they finally showed up. Mahārāja felt it was best that I go back and clear things up with my parents and with their consent come back. But they refused to let me go, and instead put me through a one-month deprogramming session. This time I was unable to escape. But now Kṛṣṇa has pulled me through, even though I'm forced to live with my parents. They are nice people, but they just don't understand about transcendental life. But they will come around sooner or later. I cannot keep any Vedic literature at home, so a friend lets me keep it at his house, and I read it during my school lunchtime. I am not able to keep japa beads to chant on, so I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa on rosary beads. I'm sixteen years old now and going to school, where I am taught little of any value. It is sometimes difficult to remain Kṛṣṇa conscious out in the material world, but I pray to Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda to help me become strong and desire to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more every day. I will be able to join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in person in two years, which isn't very long considering that I have waited to serve Kṛṣṇa for millions of lifetimes. If you have the opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa, don't waste it, because you may wind up in my shoes in your next life. Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is...
Prabhupāda: If one man is turned by this, the movement is successful. So there is good prospect, good hope. And you all combine together, try. Push this movement more and more.
Prabhupāda: The Sai Baba has been challenged in so many ways.
Mr. Myer: I went one day. I was sitting. I watched him, and he said "Come with me," and... It was a while back. So like that, he's... But then when I told him about ISKCON he's definitely interested to know all about that. Because my eldest brother, he became a member first in Māyāpur about four or five years ago.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said Sai Baba has been exposed in so many ways now.
Mr. Myer: Yes. Biggest problem with him is, see, that he has some sort of a charm over people. Mainly people who go to him, they want some miracles. People who want some...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Myer: They want some quick profits. That's why they go to him. But if anybody is interested in spiritual advancement, he cannot help. Somebody wants to get a son, somebody's son is sick, he wants to get cured, such things...
Prabhupāda: Material.
Mr. Myer: All material things. He is not not able to guide people. He does some different things, but basically he's not able to take people for any spiritual advancement.
Prabhupāda: Neither he has any philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Very good. This is preaching.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "On the 28th and 29th of July we held Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals at one prominent hall and spoke on the origin of life and matter. The second evening this Dr. Kovoor showed up with seven or eight of his followers, all doctors and scientists of some sort. By your mercy and the mercy of the Lord-teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10)—the lecture which somehow emanated from my mouth was so brilliant that the audience, about one thousand people who were all aware of Dr. Kovoor's presence and sensed the intention of challenge in the air, unanimously applauded as we spoke the last sentence." They unanimously applauded. "I then asked for questions, but the Dr. Kovoor and his friends did not make a peep, while everyone waited in dead silence. It was clear that he was defeated, hands down. After I came off the stage, he was still sitting in the audience. I went to him and gave him my garland so he might not feel bad." So anyway, that's what happened there. He says, "Now we have exhausted all possibilities of extending our visas here. We were not able to meet the Prime Minister again, so he is very busy rewriting the constitution of this country. So I thought the most inexpensive move is to come to India, and then I could also see you and perhaps be visiting secretary for some time, then return again. Or I could go to Malaysia, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore, etc., in the Far East, Southeast Asia, and try to preach there, touring different cities to see the prospects."
Prabhupāda: That is very nice.
Prabhupāda: What can I do?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can't you...? I mean...
Bhavānanda: They said that one of the symptoms of this infection is—this poisoning—is that you become averse to taking any liquid or any food. Just like you're expressing your aversion that you're not able to. But actually you are able to, but you don't want to. But you have to force yourself in order to get better.
Prabhupāda: Then, then the same problem comes, and they will forcibly...
Bhavānanda: (whispering) Hospital.
Prabhupāda: Now I am puzzled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Puzzled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Puzzled. I mean, we are not able to let you go, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We are not strong enough. We want you to be with us. We need you longer.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, what can be done? You give me that preparation?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complan.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Bhakti-caru is preparing.
Prabhupāda: Where is Girirāja?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Girirāja? You want to see him?
Prabhupāda: Where he is?
Brahmānanda: He's here.
Bhavānanda: And also this morning you were making effort to move your legs, which you've never done since I've been here. I was thinking... Of course... Just from my observation, I was thinking that you were feeling a little bit stronger today. And Śatadhanya Mahārāja also thought that you were appearing to be stronger. Usually you're not able to sit up for such a long period of time, and you're sitting up by yourself. Usually you lean on my hand for support. But this morning you're...
Śatadhanya: In fact, we all said the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Śatadhanya: We all were thinking the same thing, that you look stronger, a little bit.
Bhavānanda: And also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your suggestion that you wanted to go on parikrama, we also thought, was an indication that you must be feeling a little stronger. In initial stage of taking this medicine it has to take some time before it even can begin to equalize a deteriorating situation, what to speak of making positive gains in strength. The medicine first has to act to stop the deterioration. Even that takes some time. Then, once it's equalized and maintain that, then it will work to build the body. If you're feeling, though, that you're deteriorating condition, then perhaps we shouldn't go on the parikrama this morning.
Prabhupāda: No, parikrama I shall go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You expected to immediately get some result by taking this makara-dhvaja?
Prabhupāda: I am already puzzled? Mixed-up.(?)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said you're puzzled, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You said you're puzzled?
Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I am puzzled.
Prabhupāda: As it is.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's in all languages.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's unlimited service that one can render.
Hanumān-prasāda: That's why I become a bit discouraged sometimes because I'm not able to do what I want to do.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So you can translate also.
Hanumān-prasāda: I want. It's his mercy we shall do. (Hindi) He's a divine power. That's all. He's not a person.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: You want to take some prasādam?
Prabhupāda: Here... (?)
Bharadvāja: Nayanābhirāma.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Brahmānanda: ...offered him respect. This Bajaj, he was speaking something to him, offering him some respect. This morning they just had their organizational meeting, and they've asked one of our representatives to come and speak about our activities. So Akṣayānanda Swami will speak, and he will speak in Hindi. One of the things they mentioned... 'Cause I was saying this morning that we're having difficulty also getting the younger people to join, so they thought that one reason is that our men are not able to speak the Indian languages. These people are also very attached to Indian language. They're pro-Indian language. So if he speaks in Hindi, that will be an influence...
Prabhupāda: He is Māyāvādī, this... What is? Akhandananda?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You met him?
Brahmānanda: I didn't see... You remember you went to that Kurukṣetra meeting?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not so very weak.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I do find that you have more difficulty sitting up now. I notice that when you sit up you always slump over to one side, either as if you have no sufficient strength or as if you lost your balance. I can't tell which it is. You're always leaning. You're not able to sit up straight. Of course, that was there also even a week ago, but it seems a little more noticeable now. Do you think you are weaker now than you were a week ago?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You do? That's not a good sign. I mean I wouldn't expect that you should be that much stronger, but I don't see why you should be weaker now. Do you think it may be psychologically that you're weaker? I mean, how would you know if you were weaker now?
Prabhupāda: Because I cannot sit down.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You can't sit up. You mean after being sat up you can't stay sitting up? You were never able to sit yourself up. That you were not doing since many months ago. When you say you're not able to sit down, you mean you cannot keep sitting in a sitting position? 'Cause that you were able to do in the last day or two, sitting up. It might be... I don't know, but it may be more psychological, from laying in bed all the time. Naturally there is a feeling perhaps that one is... Weakness also means one's willpower becomes more weaker. Is that possible that that may be it?
Prabhupāda: What it is, Kṛṣṇa knows.
Prabhupāda: I cannot.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's difficult. This means you will stop practically getting any nourishment at all now. So then we should call the Calcutta kavirāja. Prabhupāda's not being able to maintain his program. So we'll call the kavirāja from Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because now you are not able to keep to the program which he fixed up. And this other kavirāja, he can't do anything this difficult. Usually by this time you've drank about 400 cc's of liquid or more. Today you haven't even drank 100 cc's yet. So in this way you will go back to about two or three weeks ago, when you were planning to depart. So that's a little premature, because we agreed that we will first go through with this program which the kavirāja has given. So now it seems like it's too difficult to do that, so we should call him so that he can...
Prabhupāda: What is the use of calling him?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The use of calling is that he... According to him... This is what I understood. The main problem you're feeling is that you have no strength. This is the sum and substance. There's no strength.
Prabhupāda: So how he can give strength?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can he give strength? Just like makara-dhvaja is for giving strength.
Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja was not giving strength.
| Page Title: | Not able (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 06 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=143, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 143 |