So there is a division, that those who are worshiper of the Supreme as mother—just like the worshiper of Goddess Kālī—that means those who are accepting the Absolute as mother, they are called śaktas. The śakta... The Vaiṣṇava, they are also śakta, because they are also accepting another pure energy, personal energy, or internal energy of Kṛṣṇa. That is also śakti. And the materialist also, they are also accepting another energy. The one energy, spiritual energy is in our normal condition, and material energy in..., is our abnormal condition. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness practice means you have to transfer yourself from this material energy to the..., under the control..., from the control of material energy, under the control of spiritual energy. That's all. That spiritual energy is Rādhārāṇī. You have to become under the control.
Normal (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
So that is the position. They cannot understand that by serving Kṛṣṇa, we become healthy or in our normal position. This is called ignorance. Somebody is trying to forget Him, somebody is trying to become equal with Him. This business is going on. And nobody is submitting that "My Lord, I forgot my service. From this day, I become again Your servant.
Question (Indian man): I have got a doubt about this Hiraṇyākṣa, Prahlāda's father...
Prabhupāda: Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Indian: Hiraṇyakaśipu. Because God has taken the shape of a Narasiṁha Swami and then He finishes him by tearing his stomach. And then He takes all the intestines and pushes out. That is the picture normally shown. What is the significance and how this is actually, what it is meaning? Why He is this sort of picture is being given and everywhere I see this picture in town and everywhere right from my childhood. I have been seeing this. What does this signify?
Prabhupāda: It is no significant. Keśava dhṛta-nara-hari-rūpa.
- tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgaṁ
- dalita-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam
- keśava dhṛta-nara-hari-rūpa, nṛsiṁha-rūpe
- jaya jagadīśa hare **
So Kṛṣṇa assumed the nara-hari, nṛsiṁha-rūpa, half-man, half-lion. So these are description in the śāstras.
So we are trying to reach that platform of perfection by regulative principle. But when we are actually on the platform, there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the perfection of life. That is our actual, liberated stage. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is our svarūpa. Svarūpa means actual constitutional position. And mukti, liberation, means to come to that real position. Just like healthy life means to come to the normal life from the diseased stage. That is healthy life and normal life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is our normal consciousness. This normal consciousness is now polluted. We have got so many other consciousness. So this is an attempt to get out of all, I mean to say, infected consciousness, come to the real stage of pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One question. No more. Next day. Yes?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: But he was attracted to Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. So what...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the sign of liberated soul. Because to become attracted by Kṛṣṇa, that is our normal condition. So he was liberated; therefore normally he became attracted with Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. That is his normal life. One who is not attracted by Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, he will be attracted by President Johnson's pastimes. (laughter) One has to be attracted. One has to be attracted by the dog's pastimes. Don't you see a person how he is serving the dog? The dog stands, passes urine, he also stands. You see? He's a human being, and he is waiting for the dog passing urine. How much he is attending the pastimes of the dog? So if you (are) not attracted by the pastimes of God, then you'll have to be attracted by the pastimes of the dog. There is no other alternative. Either māyā or Kṛṣṇa. The atheist, agnostic, they deny Kṛṣṇa's pastimes; therefore they remain attracted by the pastimes of this material world. Yes?
In this way we cannot go there. Each planet, each and every planet, has got different atmosphere. So unless your body is completely competent to live in such planet, you cannot go there. Just like the scientists say that in the moon planet the temperature is two hundred degrees below zero. Similarly, in the sun planet the temperature is very, very high, hundred and thousand times degrees above the normal. So in this way, every planet has got different atmosphere, different temperature, different standard of life, different duration of life. So one has to become competent to transfer himself in a particular type of planet. So we, as spirit soul, dehī, the possessor of this body... Dehī means one who possesses this body, or the occupier of the body, the spirit soul.
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) He wants to know if the senses, the material senses we now have, originally belong to the soul which has been covered by the material body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a man is in a normal condition, but if he becomes mad, the same senses are there, but he's in abnormal condition. So when we are in this material world we using our senses in abnormal way. So when we cure the senses, we get into normal condition. That is spiritual life. So sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). We have to give up all these designation of life and we have to become purified. Then we come to our normal condition.
Hṛdayānanda: (translating) He wants to know what are the characteristics of a person who has realized that he is not this body.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He doesn't know anything but Kṛṣṇa. That is normal condi... (break) Thank you very much.
Those who are too much attached with bodily pleasure, bodily enjoyment, and tayāpahṛta-cetasām. Apahṛta-cetasām means those who are illusioned. Because bodily pleasure is not my pleasure. My pleasure is different because I am not this body. Just like a man in a feverish condition or in feverish delirium, speaking something. That is not his normal speaking. That is due to the delirious condition. So to bring him to the normal condition, the physician treats him to get out of that delirious condition. So similarly, our position is: because we have got..., some way or other, we have been entangled with this material body; therefore our conception of happiness is just like a man in the delirious condition.
So we are, we are getting promotion. We are getting promotion to a life where there is no birth, no death and no disease, no old age. And that means we come to our normal life. Normally, we want. Nobody wants disease. Nobody wants death. Nobody wants old age. Nobody wants to suffer the suf..., I mean to say, the miseries of birth. Oh. There are great miseries when you are in the womb of the mother, all tightly packed up and in a bag, suffocated bag. We do not (know) how do we live even. And if we put again into that position, it will be very difficult. You cannot live for a few seconds. But by the arrangement of nature, or God, we live within the womb of our mother for ten months in that position. But we have forgotten. But just imagine in how much trouble I was.
Now, simply to become free from the bodily conception of life is not... But that consciousness should be made purified, purified. Just like to, just to stop the symptoms of fever or decreasing the degree of fever is not all. Suppose a man is suffering from fever. Doctor gives him medicine. Now the fever decreases and he comes to normal temperature. That is not all. That diseased man must get up from that bed and engage himself in the healthy activities. Then that is the real cure of disease. Simply, therefore, to understand that "I am not this consciousness, I am not this body; I am pure consciousness," that will not cure. You must have to engage your consciousness in pure activities.
There are so many relationships. As we have got relationship within this material world, this is only perverted reflection of that five relationship with God. But we have forgotten that. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to revive that consciousness. It is nothing new. To forget God means that is abnormal condition, and to have relationship with God is normal condition. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to be reestablished in our normal condition of life. Go on. "Arjuna is..."
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is incarnation. They are teaching love of Godhead. We are not teaching some ritualistic process, that "You become Hindu. You become Christian. You become Muhammadan." We are simply teaching, "You try to love God. You have forgotten God. You have declared, 'God is dead.' These are all nonsense. God is there. You are here. You are suffering because you have forgotten God. You try to love God. Your normal life will come back. You will be happy." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
So this human form of body is the only chance that we can stop this transmigration of transferring ourself from one body to another and come to our spiritual body. This process is described here as pūtā, purification, existentional purification. That is called pūtā. Just like when you are infected by some disease, you have to purify yourself after the infection, and you come to your normal health, similarly, by knowledge and purificatory method, if you come to your spiritual knowledge and spiritual platform, then your life is successful.
If I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa then what is my duty? My duty is to act what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all. That is my action. Without knowing this, whatever I do, that is perverted action. Just like in diseased condition this finger cannot act according to my order. "Oh, there is some pain. If I want to make it stand like that, oh, I feel pain," because there is diseased condition. Similarly, when we do not act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness that is our diseased condition of life. That is not normal condition. In normal condition we shall be all prepared to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That we should know. Then our action will be right.
All other business, he will remember, but when he is requested to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, to understand Kṛṣṇa, he doesn't like it. Except Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will take all responsibility and work hard for that purpose. This is called māyā-grasta jīva. So nirāśīḥ, now, to go to our original position, that is called tapasya. Tapasya means to revive our original normal life of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is called tapasya. This tapasya is not possible by the cats and dogs or animals. Tapasya is meant for the human being. Therefore the human life is called durlabha-janma. Durlabhaṁ mānuṣaṁ janma tad apy arthadam adhruvam.
And in the Nārada-bhakti-sūtra also you'll find that hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). When our senses are freed from all designation... Just like due to fever, I am feeling some extra sensation in my hand. That is a designation. When that designation is freed, then I come to my normal state. Similarly, at the present moment, due to this covering of material body, I have got different designative sensation, designative sensation. I am feeling I am, I am just using my senses under some designation.
This is very nice. (laughs) Nothing is prohibited because after all, you have to execute the yoga process with this body. To make the best use of a bad bargain. You see? This material body is the source of all miseries. Actually the spirit soul has no misery. Just like normal condition of a living entity is healthy life. Disease takes place by certain contamination infection. Disease is not our life. Similarly the present position of material existence is a diseased condition of the soul. And what is that disease? The disease is this body? Because this body is not meant for me, it is not my body.
Now that being the position, we all living entities, we are weaker, and the strongest is the Supreme Lord; therefore our business is to render service to the Supreme Lord. We are rendering service to the stronger section, but the strongest of all stronger is the Supreme Lord. Therefore the conclusion is that our normal position is to render service to God. This is the position. We cannot say that "We don't care for God." That you cannot say.
So, by practice one becomes vīta-rāga, no more attachment for the material world. That is possible. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca. If you develop your normal bhakti, or devotional life, that kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha sādhya kabhu naya. It has to be awakened. Then you will become vīta-rāga. Bhaya-krodha, and this material world is always fearful. Every living entity is fearful what will happen next.
My only business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is my constitutional position. I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa." This finger is part and parcel of my body. His business is to serve the whole body. I ask the finger, "Come here"; immediately... This is the normal, healthy condition of the part and parcel. Just like leg is my part and parcel of the body. As soon as I ask leg, "Please take me there..." That is normal. And if the leg cannot take me there—I have to take some stick—that means this is an..., not normal. It is diseased condition. It has to be treated. Similarly, as soon as we find that we do not abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, we must know that you are in ignorance and in abnormal condition, madness.
This is proper utilization of energy. When the energy of Kṛṣṇa, the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa or the living entity, works for Kṛṣṇa, that is healthy condition. Just like part and parcel of my body, this finger. When this finger works for me... I want the finger: "Come here. Work some here." But if the finger is not in healthy condition, it is painful, it cannot work, that is not normal condition. The normal condition is the finger is to work for my body. Similarly, we, being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, when we are engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, that is our normal condition, our healthy life. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says that "These foolish creatures, mūḍhāḥ, who are thinking that 'We shall work for sense gratification,' they are mūḍhas." Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15).
And when one understands that "I am part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. My duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa," that is normal life. That is actually spiritual life. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs. 1.2.234). When we forget to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is material life. And when we serve Kṛṣṇa with love and affection, understanding that we are very intimately related, part and parcel, that is spiritual life.
Guest (5): Why are people cruel? Why do they persecute other human beings and torture them? How is it they are able to do this?
Prabhupāda: Because he is not in his normal condition, under the dictation of māyā, he is thinking, "This is my enemy; this is my friend," and he's acting like that. But when he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he becomes learned. There is no more enemy. Everyone is friend. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). That is the highest stage of life. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So religion does not mean that. Religion means you cannot change it at any circumstance. That is religion. That is the meaning of dharma. If you change, that is your diseased condition. That is not normal condition. So that is the meaning of religion. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). When human being changes his normal condition of life, that is pollution of...
So the normal condition of life is described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. When Sanātana Gosvāmī inquired from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "Why I am suffering?"... He inquired from Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was minister, very big post, and very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Arabic. Because at that time there was Pathan rule. So as government was Muhammadan, so responsible officers, ministers, they had to learn the Arabic language or Persian language. The Moguls were Persians?
Now this verse is describing how one can become interested in the values of life. The values of life is to inquire the Absolute Truth, how this inclination can be developed or how Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be developed. Tattva-jijñāsā means Brahman, Paramātmā, and Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa. Now how this inclination... There is inclination in everyone, but by artificial means, they have been checked. Otherwise, normally, this inclination is there in everyone's heart. Nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-bhakti sādhya kabhu naya. It is not an artificial imposition. Naturally there is tendency to know, if he's a sane man, "What I am? What is God? What is my relationship with Him? Why I am suffering?" There are so many questions.
Pradyumna: "A living being in his normal constitutional position is fully satisfied in spiritual bliss. This state of existence is called brahma-bhūta or ātmānandi, or the state of self-satisfaction. This self-satisfaction is not like the satisfaction of the inactive fool. The inactive fool is in the state of foolish ignorance..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, just like a cat and dog are sitting silently, very good men. That kind of inactivity is useless. Rather, one who is devotee, he is very active to serve Kṛṣṇa: "How shall I serve Kṛṣṇa more and more? How shall I advance this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement?" That activity, you see; not sitting idly, "I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious." Go on.
So Nārada Muni is instructing his disciple Vyāsadeva to write books specially by which one may be helped, everyone will be helped, to cross over the nescience, akhila-bandha-muktaye, to become liberated from all conditional stage. We are spirit soul. We cannot be under any material condition. Just like our normal condition is healthy life, not under feverish condition. That is abnormal life. If one is attacked with fever, that is not his normal life. That is temporary, abnormal life. Actual life is healthy life. We should nicely eat. We shall nicely sleep. We shall work very nicely. We..., our brain must work very nicely. These are healthy signs. But when I cannot work nicely, I cannot sleep nicely, I cannot work nicely, I cannot act my brain very nicely, that means abnormal condition. So at that time, he requires to be treated by expert physician.
Spiritual life means normal life, and material life means diseased life. Therefore we are always suffering in materialistic way of life. Diseased condition means suffering. So when we have got suffering, how we can say, "It is normal life. It is healthy life"? The common sense. Can any materialistic way, those who are living in a materialistic, can say that "I am very happy"? No. That cannot be. That cannot be. This is diseased condition. One who is intelligent, he can understand that "This is diseased life. Why I am suffering?" That is intelligence.
When you are diseased. That is not normal. And if you have to take food from rectum for many days, then you finished.
So this is the philosophy taught by Nārada Muni to Vyāsadeva, and Vyāsadeva taught to Madhvācārya. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is on that authority and Kṛṣṇa also. Kṛṣṇa taught Brahmā, Brahmā taught Nārada, Nārada taught Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva taught... In this way, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2).
Religion means to awaken that Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is religion. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is religion. Religion is not formalities and ritualistic ceremonies. Religion means how to awaken the normal condition, to become lover of God. That is normal condition. Love is there, but because we have no objective, because we have no instruction where to place our love we are loving so many things—up to the dog. Instead of God we are loving dog. Love is there.
So śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte. Just like when you become diseased... Actually your position is, normal position is, that you can eat nicely, you can sleep nicely, you can talk nicely. That is healthy life. But when you cannot eat nicely, when you cannot sleep nicely, you cannot have sex life nicely, you take the help of a physician.
So why I am so much fond of soul? Because it is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, ultimately, I love Kṛṣṇa. This is the conclusion. And if I do not love Kṛṣṇa, that is my abnormal stage. And the normal stage is I love Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we are trying to awaken Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and begins to love Kṛṣṇa, then he doesn't want to love anything more. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi: "Now I am fully satisfied." So otherwise, we'll have many questions, many answers so long we are not self-realized, and our time will be spoiled.
That is good for him. Similarly, we are weak. God is great. God is all-powerful. We are very teeny. We have no power. Therefore our normal life is voluntarily accept the controlling power of God. That is human life. And God comes and He pleads, He requests that "My dear boy, why you are struggling here? You will never be happy." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You have manufactured so many plans to be happy, but you will never be happy.
. Of course, these are very intricate questions. When one studies very seriously and scientifically, this will be revealed. So on the whole one can understand that "All the qualities of God is with me. But I am now materially contaminated." Just like a diseased person. A diseased person, he wants to enjoy the facilities of healthy life, but the physician says, "No, don't. Don't." Because that will create danger. Similarly, all the qualities we have got, but because it is materially contaminated, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is to purify them and to bring them to the normal condition, and then it will be happy. That is the whole idea. Yes?
To realize "I am Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi," that is not sufficient. You have to make further progress. Just like to become feverless... Suppose one is suffering from fever. So medicine is given and the no more fever, fever stops. That is not sufficient. Not only fever should stop, but you should get strength, you should get appetite, you should have normal life. Then it is perfect cure of the disease. Similarly, brahma-siddhaye, to realize that "I am spirit soul," is not sufficient. You have to be engaged in the spiritual activities. That is bhakti.
That is correct philosophy. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so it is the duty of the finger to serve the whole body. Whenever I ask any service from the finger, "Come here," it is coming here. "Come here," it is coming here, "Come here." This is the duty. That is the normal condition. If at once with my order the finger cannot come here or come here, then it is diseased—because it cannot give service. So, so long as we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Lord, our duty is to give service. That is the description given by Lord Caitanya. Everywhere in every śāstra, that is the... Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Eternally we are servant.
Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, when we are forgetful or cut off It cannot be cut off, but still, when we forget God, then we have no value. The same example: When I ask my finger to come here and give me some itching sensation, then the finger is in normal condition. And if the finger cannot give me any service, that is useless. Similarly, we being part and parcel of God, our business is to give service to God. That is our normal condition. And if we do not give service to the Lord, if we keep separately, then we have no value.
Eko bahūnām, unlimited number of living entities. You cannot count. Bahūnām. This is our relationship. So, as part and parcel, we have to serve Kṛṣṇa, and we are subordinate. He is supplying our necessities. He is the Supreme Father. This life is normal life and liberated life. Any other life, beyond this conception of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is sinful life.
So there are different varieties of sinful activities, just like there are different varieties of diseases. To become diseased is not our normal life. To remain healthy is our normal life. When we become diseased, that is abnormal condition of life. Therefore we want to treat, get out of the disease. Similarly, this material life is the diseased condition of the living being. We are all living beings, but because we have accepted this material body, we are suffering. Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14). Now we require this fan.
And many hundreds and thousands and millions of people with the fiery body, they are living. Therefore you will find always sun fiery, light. Just like you can see from distance a big city. The light is coming out. Is it not? In the night you see a big city, and you are in the village, you will find a big light is coming. So that is artificial, electric light. But in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka normally, regularly, their body is light.
You are now curing physical disease, but when you take up curing material, I mean to say, spiritual disease... Yes. Try to bring all people to the normal spiritual life. All their suffering is due to abnormal spiritual life, all suffering. Because, I was discussing with my disciples just now, nature's law is so subtle and so acute, that a little violation will be punished immediately.
Just like in your country the real policy—to continue the Vietnam—means they cannot manage these hippies, and they are trying to send them to Vietnam and kill them. That's all. That is the policy. They cannot manage. They cannot make them sane and normal condition. They have no such policy, neither they do know it. So what to do? "Blow him. We cannot manage them." Therefore they are continuing.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said. Mukti means... Just like a person has fallen sick. He cannot walk. He cannot go to his office or... So many disadvantages. But when he is cured of the sickness or fever, he again comes to his normal life. Similarly, when we come to our normal life, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean, "Now I have got two hands; I'll get four hands or two heads or five heads," not like that. Simply to come to our normal condition. That is the definition of bhakti also. Real mukti means to be situated in bhakti. That is mukti. Mukti... Simply to understand that "I am Brahman," that is not mukti. That is mukti... That is like convalescent stage.
That is sva-dharma. When Kṛṣṇa says, "You surrender unto Me," that is your sva-dharma. Because you are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, your business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. Just like this finger is part and parcel of my body, so I say, "Finger, please come here." He immediately comes. This is the normal condition of the finger. Similarly, if you are really healthy, in normal condition, then you must be ready to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is your sva-dharma. If the finger cannot come immediately on my order on my head, that means it is not in normal condition; it is in diseased condition. (applause) Similarly, when you cannot serve Kṛṣṇa, that is your diseased condition. (laughter-applause)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Incarnation means somebody's incarnation. So who is that somebody? That is Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If you do not know it, you understand now.
Acyutānanda: One more question, last question. Is it necessary that a person should pass through the three āśramas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, before coming to sannyāsa?
Prabhupāda: That is the normal rules and regulation, that especially brāhmaṇa, he must go through the four āśramas, first of all become brahmacārī, then gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, then take sannyāsa. This is for the brāhmaṇas. And for the kṣatriyas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, and vānaprastha. And for the vaiśyas, brahmacārī, gṛhastha. And for the śūdras, only gṛhastha. This is the process. This is normal process. But either one is brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vai\ zya and śūdra, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes above these rules and regulations.
Guest (2): Are we to take Kṛṣṇa conscious dreams seriously or some illusion?
Prabhupāda: Well, that depends on your particular position, you see. Sometimes a Kṛṣṇa conscious persons dreams very seriously. Sometimes communication is there by dreams. Yes?
Guest (2): Normal sleep for a man would be about eight hours. So is it possible to train the body through the use of yoga to decrease the sleep period down to about three hours or two hours?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes. Rūpa Gosvāmī, he used to sleep only for one and a half hours.
We cannot do without His favor. So Prahlāda Mahārāja requests that "If You kindly become merciful upon us, it is not a great task for You, because You can do whatever You like. Because You are the cause of creation, maintenance and destruction, so it is not difficult for You." Besides that, mūḍheṣu vai mahad-anugraha ārta-bandho. Generally, those who are ārta-bandhu, friend of the suffering humanity, they specially show favor to the mūḍha, to the rascals. Kṛṣṇa comes for that purpose because every one of us, we are mūḍhas. Duṣkṛtino. Na māṁ duṣkṭtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante. Normally we, because we are sinful, because we are mūḍhas, we do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ prapadyante. Anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa, He is classified as duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhamā, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. It is not at all possible to become independent of Kṛṣṇa's will.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
And Kṛṣṇa is the energetic. Similarly, this material world is external energy. Similarly, the living entities, they're marginal energy, between the external and internal energy. The living entities are called marginal energy because the living energy has to act under another energy, that either material energy or spiritual energy. So when the living entity is under spiritual energy, that is his normal condition, and when he's under the material energy, that is his abnormal condition. We should always remember. Material energy means forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa. Just like in this material world, everything is there, but it is lacking in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You travel all over the world, you'll see there is profuse arrangement of sense gratification, but there is no arrangement for understanding Kṛṣṇa. This is called material energy.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
This is our hospital. We are therefore not interested with this kind of hospital. Our this hospital is treating the materially affected patient to get out of his four kinds of miseries: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). One type of disease is to take birth; another, death; another, old age; another, disease. So we want to stop. This is not our normal condition of life. Because we living entities, soul, we are spiritual. Our identity is that we are eternal. It is not that because my body is annihilated, therefore I am finished. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This is the instruction. The living entity, the soul, is not destroyed after the body being destroyed. The body is destroyed.
So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha, to bring them. It is a difficult task. Just I was talking in the morning, it is very difficult task to... Just like a madman. A madman, to again bring him to the normal life is very difficult task. You have got in your country so many institutions. So the whole world, anyone who is in this material world, he's a madman.
Actually he belongs to the spiritual world. By chance or some way he has come to the material world. So when he goes back again to the spiritual world, then he gets his normal condition of life. Unfortunately, in the modern education there is no information of the spiritual world, the spiritual identity, and go on, our relationship with God—nothing. Simply they are working like cats and dogs under the influence of māyā and the suffering. To stop this suffering, one must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and understand the position of his life and be perfect.
Festival Lectures
So "lowest of the mankind..." Now if somebody's not Kṛṣṇa conscious, and if we say that "You are lowest of the mankind," a very, very strong word used... A gentleman, suppose he's not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, but if we say that "You are the lowest of the mankind," he'll be certainly very angry, that "I am such a nice gentleman, and you are talking of me as the lowest of the mankind." But actually the fact is this. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvad kiñcit na hvāyate, sabhāyaṁ vastra-veṣṭhitaḥ.(?) There is a normal instruction that a so-called gentleman, nicely dressed in the assembly of human society, may appear to be very nice so long he does not speak. But he's, if he speaks nonsense, without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, immediately he becomes the lowest of the mankind.
I am born in this country; therefore I belong to this nation, I belong to this community, I belong to this family, I belong to this species," this is called pravṛtti-mārga. This is scientific division, pravṛtti-mārga and nivṛtti-mārga. Why the scientific? Because it is the fact. Science means fact. I am not this body. I am spirit soul. That is, just like a man suffering from some disease, so that is not his normal life to suffer from some disease. Normal life is to keep healthy life, no disease. That is normal life. So in order to keep to the normal life, we must know how to cure the disease. Just like when you have got fever, you go to the doctor, he says, advises "You do this" and "You do not do this." The "do not do this" means nivṛtti-mārga, and "do this," pravṛtti-mārga. If you are serious to cure your disease, then you must know what you should do and what you should not do.
General Lectures
Similarly, we are all part and parcel of the Supreme. If we work with the Supreme, that means if we work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, that "I am part and parcel..." Just like this finger is working fully in consciousness of my body. Whenever there is little pain I can feel. Similarly, if you dovetail yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are living in your normal condition, your life is successful. And as soon as you are separated from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the whole trouble is there. The whole trouble is there. So there are many examples we cite every day in this class. So we have to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness if we at all want to be happy and be situated in our normal condition. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
As soon as one becomes purified, the manifestation of his character, of his mode of life, living, everything will be purified. That is the test. Pareśānubhava. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava. Just like if you're cured, then there is no fever. The temperature is at the normal point. And if you say, "I am cured. I am taking medicine, and still, my temperature is 105," that is not possible. So advancement in self-realization means purification from material contamination. That is real advancement.
Man (6): What do the, what is normally called pleasure, like eating, sleeping, sex...
Prabhupāda: Defense.
Man (6): What part do they play when a person's reached this higher level of consciousness?
Prabhupāda: They also eat, they also sleep, they also mate, they also defend, but there is adjustment.
Prabhupāda: There are some naked girl pictures." They are inviting, "Come here. You will be happy." So we are planning for happiness. Why? Why you are searching after happiness? Because constitutionally you are happy. Just like when we fall diseased we go to the doctor, physician, to cure the disease. Why? Because constitutionally we are healthy. To remain healthy is our normal life, and to fall diseased condition, that is not normal; that is abnormal. Therefore we go to the physician, take medicine, ask treatment, "How shall I be cured?" Similarly, we are searching after happiness. Why? Because constitutional position is we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, who is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). He is by nature full of bliss. But our blissfulness has been disturbed.
So there is supreme control. The modern civilization, they do not understand it due to lack of knowledge. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is trying to enlighten people to come to this point of knowledge. They're all crazy, conducted by the influence of the three modes of material nature. They're not in normal condition. So it is very important movement. We invite... This morning also I said at the press representative meeting at the airport that there are so many universities and, especially in your country, department of knowledge, but why they are not discussing this point? Where is the department of knowledge? Sometimes past, I think sometimes in 1968, when I went to Boston, I was invited to speak in the technical institute.
That is real life. That is real mukti. In the Bhāgavata it is said, mukti means hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ svarūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ (SB 2.10.6). Mukti means you have to give up your artificial ways of life and you have to situate yourself in your normal constitutional position. That is called mukti. Mukti hasn't got any other definition. Mukti means just like you are attacked with fever. If your fever is gone, then you are mukta, you are liberated from fever. Similarly, this disease, ahaṁ mameti... (SB 5.5.8).
So unless your body is completely competent to live in such planet, you cannot go there. Just like the scientists say that in the moon planet the temperature is two hundred degrees below zero. Similarly, in the sun planet, the temperature is very, very high, hundred and thousand times degrees above the normal. So in this way every planet has got different atmosphere, different temperature, different standard of life, different duration of life. So one has to become competent to transfer himself in a particular type of planet. So we, as spirit soul, dehi, the possessor of this body... Dehi means one who possesses this body or the occupier of the body, the spirit soul.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: So this Hume has said that cause and effect are habitual assumptions, that we can naturally assume that a certain effect follows a certain cause. But it is not necessary that the cause makes the effect.
Prabhupāda: No. We disagree with that. Without cause there cannot be any effect. Let him prove that this is..., there is an existence without any cause. Then he can say like that.
Śyāmasundara: Hume's example is if we find a footprint on the beach, normally we can assume that a human being left it...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Why normally? That is factually.
Śyāmasundara: Still, it remains a probability.
Prabhupāda: Why probability?
Śyāmasundara: It is possible that something else left the footprint.
Prabhupāda: How is it possible?
Prabhupāda: But here is a scientist, and he does not agree with that.
Śyāmasundara: What about the half-life of certain elements?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. The, normally, what they call the age determination, or how old a species is, they normally find out from this so-called (indistinct). They find some bone or something which contains normally carbonate. And normally they get this age of the elements or age of these findings by so-called Carbon 14 method. Carbon 14 is an isotope of normal carbon, it is called Carbon 12. Carbon 14 is radioactive. It's one in which they put in the radioactive testing, and they find out because it follows the normal chemical laws or physical laws. This is governed by the Lord Himself, by Kṛṣṇa Himself. They're finding the chemical lowest form, and from that chemical lowest they normally try to reduce the, how old the sample is, and that method is very limited, it is not applicable to all findings also, and a test, a very reliable test (indistinct) to about five thousand, six thousand years old but beyond that it is very doubtful whether the findings are really true or not.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is a scientist. He will talk technical words.
Śyāmasundara: He is going to bring all of his books. And I also studied science for many years, so if I refresh, and if all of the students become armed with these arguments, they can defeat any scientist.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes.
Śyāmasundara: Normally they are unable to answer scientists. It is difficult to answer scientists for some devotees, because they have such strong arguments.
Prabhupāda: This point should be stressed, that he is dealing with dead bones, and we are dealing with living brains.
Śyāmasundara: Just like Bhagavad-gītā is so perfectly written, so perfectly conceived.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And also there is Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, everything, everything; every, Purāṇas.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is a wrong theory.
Hayagrīva: But when a man becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, could you say that he has become like a god or godlike?
Prabhupāda: He, that godlessness is diseased condition. So when he becomes in normal condition, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His normal life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is mukti. Mukti means liberation. What is that liberation? A man is suffering from fever. So if the fever is stopped by medicine and treatment, then he becomes in normal health. It does not mean that he, he changes his constitution. He is the same man, but on account of fever he was talking nonsense, in convul..., what is called, convulsion?
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So this is going on. So-called philosophy, scientific advancement, but the central mistake is there that he is thinking in terms of his body. That has to be corrected. Then it will be pure consciousness and normal life.
Hayagrīva: Now let me get this right. He doesn't say that it's a machine for the making..., that man becomes... He's not saying that man becomes God. He never says that.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: In man dealing, not with any other living beings, only man.
Hayagrīva: Well man, Mill concludes that conformity to nature has no connection whatever with right and wrong, and that man must amend nature. He must not act according to nature, but must—the word he uses is "amend"...
Prabhupāda: Yes, amend. Not only amend. The nature, that we discussed, almost always, the nature is animal nature. But man must be above the animal nature. That is rationality. Normally a man is called rational animal, so he should advance in rationality. Just for eating, eating is common to the man and to the animal, but man should be advanced, what kind of eating it should be. Not only natural, although natural tendency is... Just like man, some of, not all, some of them want to eat meat.
Śyāmasundara: That's their philosophy, that it is not what is done or the object of the doing; it is how it is done. That is what they say. Not what is done but how it is done.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolish thing. Dog's obstinacy that is called. Dog's obstinacy. This philosophy is dog's obstinacy.
Devotee: He says that the normal state of man's condition is an anxious uncertainty, that a man is naturally anxiety and uncertain.
Prabhupāda: Uncertainty for them who do not know what is the end of life, the goal of life.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that this anxiety and uncertainty is displaced or replaced by the passion of truth or faith.
Prabhupāda: No, that is possible. Just like practice. A child is practiced to play, but if he is constantly practiced to read and write, he becomes educated. So not momentary. It is a practice. If you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then other consciousness will automatically vanish.
Śyāmasundara: But he is describing only one type of salvation, called aesthetic salvation, where one transcends the normal state of desire by seeing art or hearing music or poetry. Only this momentary transcendence.
Prabhupāda: So why momentary? It can continue perpetually.
Śyāmasundara: By seeing pictures and art...
Prabhupāda: No. He is understanding that "I am existing up to the point of death. After death I am not existing." Is it not? They are rascals.
Śyāmasundara: But later we find that he does believe in some kind of immortality, but he is talking about the (indistinct), or the (indistinct) of individuals that normally, on a normal level, they believe that the body will end or it will die at a certain time, so that they act in such a way with that in mind. And he calls that, that knowledge that I will die some day, that this creates anxiety or dread in the living entity.
Prabhupāda: So this is animal, animals' philosophy, that "I shall die." Then that very attachment, he is imperfect, that he dies. We do not agree that we will die. Actually that's not a fact, because in my life I can understand that I have existed as a child. So the body of child is not there, but still I am existing. Similarly, when this body will be finished, I'll exist. So I exist eternally. I shall not die. That is the philosophy.
Prabhupāda: But I don't think when a man's brain is already deranged he can be rectified by finding out the cause.
Devotee: It's not that the trauma makes him crazy so that he cannot function in society. He could be a business executive who has claustrophobia; he can't stand getting in an elevator. He is leading a normal life in society but he has a problem which causes him a great deal...
Prabhupāda: So why not divert his attention to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Śyāmasundara: Ah, by a higher type of knowledge, if one realizes that he is not this body, then all those things will be...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Devotee: Freud's case is interesting, that he formed all of his conclusions by his observations of what he calls neurotic and psychotic patients. He observed mentally ill people, neurosis and psychosis, and he drew his conclusions about both sick and normal psychology from his observation of abnormal. He observed the normal behavior of neurotic people, psychotic people, crazy people, and from their behavior he tried to infer all about human psychology. So not only was he on bodily platform, but his only subject matter was the insane. So how can he draw valid conclusions about behavior?
Prabhupāda: So what is your answer?
Devotee: Yes, his observation is correct, but at the same time it doesn't invalidate Freud's use of psychology for supposedly normal people.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) psychology.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in support of our movement.
Devotee: According to our philosophy, everyone in this material world is under the spell of the material nature, māyā, "that which is not." So Freud observed that not only in crazy people, but in so-called normal people, everybody's lives are based on some types of illusion. So his psychoanalytic therapy is to trace out how I have come to this illusion or that illusion, that due to some childhood experience with my mother and father or my mouth or my genitals, something like that, all of these experiences are contributing to my unreal perception of the world. But the point which you made is that although he may have worked out what is one particular illusion, who is to prevent that there will not be another illusion? So our process is not to bother tracing out each and every illusion that we have, but to become free from the whole process of being controlled by illusory energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our position: not to be affected by any more illusion.
Prabhupāda: You are so foolish that you cannot avoid even accident. You are subjected to so many accidents. So what you will do by your philosophy? If accident is so prominent, (laughter) so how you will make adjustment with your philosophy? Stop talking philosophy, accept accidents and suffer, that's all.
Hayagrīva: Concerning sex, Freud explored the realm of infantile sexuality and found a definite sexual nature in the earlier stages of childhood. He concluded that these sexual activities in childhood were normal phenomena, and finally concluded with his famous dictum, "In a normal sex life, no neurosis is possible."
Prabhupāda: That is also his foolishness, because a child can be trained up to become a brahmacārī so that he will have no inclination for sex. It depends on the child's training. The unscrupulous father and mother, they enjoy sex life before the child, and they imitate. I have seen it. I have seen it in Agra.
Devotee: How long?
Śyāmasundara: For some time. And she came out better, healthier and happier than normal children, because they kept the temperature the same, because it was germ-free, there was no disease and always cleaned by rotating...
Prabhupāda: That means he protected the child from all calamities.
Devotee: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of a house, that if I become conscious of a house, the house itself is a real entity, unaffected by my consciousness of it. It exists, objectively, real, whether I see it or not. He says that the...
Prabhupāda: But in that proposition... And if we accept that we are eternal, so it is very natural to assume that we have got eternal home. That is back to Godhead, back to home. Is it not?
Śyāmasundara: If we were born someplace, that is our home, normally...
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is... Just like I have come to this house. This is not my own house, but everyone knows that I have got a house. It may be where it is. Therefore sometimes they ask, "Where, what is your residence?"
Śyāmasundara: Yes. "Where is your home?" That usually refers to where you were born.
Prabhupāda: That, that information we are giving that in reality everyone is servant, but he is under misconception, he's thinking he's master and he's forced to serve māyā. This is reality. Just like a outlaw, he is thinking that free from the state law but he's forced to abide by the state law in the kingdom. Similarly my position is I must carry the order. I am inferior. I must carry out the order of the superior. The superior, the supreme superior is Kṛṣṇa. If I voluntarily become the servant and carry out His order, then it is my normal life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam vraja (BG 18.66). Otherwise it is abnormal life. I have to serve māyā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Māyā will kick upon my face and force me to do something, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). So I will be servant of prakṛti, material nature. That means I will be servant of my senses. By nature, my senses dictate, "Now you do this," I will be forced to do it. This is my position.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When he understands his pleasing, as situation with God, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate... (BG 2.59). When he understands the transcendental pleasing situation of his life, he automatically gives up this material bodily attachment. That is his freedom. And when he actually, in his spiritual identity, engaged in the service of the Lord, that is his normal position.
Prabhupāda: He has got imagination. He believes in his own imagination. So others can believe in his own imagination. So who is going to follow him? He, he has to remain satisfied with his imagination. I mean, everyone has got imagination. Why he should, one should follow him?
Hayagrīva: Like, like Aldous Huxley, he feels that if happiness isn't possible through not doing anything, in the not too few dis..., in the not too distant future, the motivational and emotional conditions of normal daily life will probably be maintained in any desired state through...
Prabhupāda: He can probably, perhaps...
Hayagrīva: ...through the use of drugs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he is advocate of drugs.
Purports to Songs
So he says that durlabha mānava-janama sat-saṅge tara e bhava-sindhu re. Bhava-sindhu. Bhava-sindhu means this cosmic situation where birth and death is going on continually, one after another. "So you stop this business of repeated birth and death. You make your this human form of life successful and get release from this disease of birth and death." Birth and death is a sort of disease for the living entities. It is not the normal condition. Due to our this abnormal encagement in the material body, we are put into the birth and death. Otherwise, I am not subjected to birth and death. I am eternal. I am eternal. So he is requested that "Don't waste your time, my dear mind." Because mind is taking me here and there. So he's requesting mind. It is very philosophical. This is concentration, requesting the mind, "Don't put me into the ocean of birth and death. Please save me, and just make your life successful in the association of saints and sages.
| Page Title: | Normal (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, JayaNitaiGaura |
| Created: | 10 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=80, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 80 |