Prabhupāda: I do not belong to this country. I do not belong to this family. I do not belong to this society." This is negative. Some philosophers are trying to make these things void. But actually I am existing. I am existing in misunderstanding. But that does not mean I am not existing. I am not void. Just like I am existing within this apartment. But instead of knowing myself, I have identified this apartment: "myself." So to simply to understand that "I am not this apartment" is not perfect knowledge. Then what is my position? What I am actually? When we come to that consciousness... At the present moment, I am conscious of this body, of this country, of this society, of the family. But when I perfectly understand that I am not any of these things, then my consciousness also changes because at the present moment my consciousness is absorbed with all these things.
No existence (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"no actual existence"
|"no eternal existence"
|"no existence"
|"no factual existence"
|"no independent existence"
|"no manifested existence"
|"no material existence"
|"no more existence"
|"no other existence"
|"no permanent existence"
|"no personal existence"
|"no real existence"
|"no second existence"
|"no separate existence"
|"no spiritual existence"
|"no substantial existence"
|"not existing"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The real understanding should be that if in the real person all these features are not present, how they can be reflected in the photograph? The Māyāvādī says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is real truth, and this world is mithyā. Then mithyā means it is a reflection or shadow. Mithyā does not mean that it has no existence. The shadow is also existence. Therefore Vaiṣṇava philosophers say that mithyā means temporary. Now you have got this body. This is temporary. That's the real understanding. And if I say it is mithyā, then if I kill you, then why I am punished? I can say, "Oh, it is mithyā, it is false. So what is their fault?" No. It is not mithyā. It is temporary. Not mithyā. Mithyā how can it be? Because it is reflection of the reality, therefore it cannot be mithyā. Then the reality becomes mithyā. Mithyā means not fact. The real explanation is that this is shadow. Shadow, but the reality is in the spiritual world, and that is indicated in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). The fountainhead of all emanation.
Prabhupāda: Another meaning of māyā means insanity. Just like when a man becomes insane, that is false. It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence. Māyā has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it—that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends māyā, or material existence.
Allen Ginsberg: Oh, oh. I guess that's where I... "Everything is depending on Me, yet I am not in them."
Prabhupāda: "Everything is resting on Me. But I am not there." Just like this is Kṛṣṇa. Without Kṛṣṇa it has no existence. But it is not Kṛṣṇa. The pantheist will say "I... Everything is Kṛṣṇa, then I worship this."
Allen Ginsberg: So who is Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: If He's not apprehensible by senses...
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. If God is everything, then where is material? He is spiritual. Material means when you cannot understand God. That is material. Everything is sky. When it is covered by cloud we call it is cloudy. Similarly, cloud has no existence. It comes only to cover sometimes, but the sky is eternal. Similarly, God is eternal. When you are covered by some māyā, you cannot see, you cannot understand God, that is material. So any philosophy which does not help understanding God, that is material. That is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Where is material if God is everything? Sarvam khalv idam brahma. You see?
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...therefore they are coming to these things. Process of killing is different because in this age if you simply kill all the pāpīs, then there will be no more existence because everybody is pāpī. If you take sword and kill the pāpīs, then everybody will be finished. Of course, that will be done at the last stage of Kali-yuga. But here the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is killing the pāpa-bīja. Pāpa-bīja means just like a man is a thief. He knows that "If I steal, according to śāstra, I'll be punished by God. Or there is no god. Then I'll be punished by the state, by the police." He knows that. And he sees also that one man who has committed theft, he is arrested and he is taken by the police. He has seen also.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, when you are covered, that is material. You try to understand. Covered by something. The same example. The sunshine is there, it is covered now. That covering also creation of the sunshine. So therefore the covering has no separate existence. Originally, the sunshine is everything. Is it clear?
Śyāmasundara: So how do I create matter that is my body? How do I create...
Prabhupāda: You are creating. You are creating actually.
Śyāmasundara: By eating and...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. By your energy you are creating. This body is my creation. Just like I am the soul, I am here within this body. So I cut my hair; it is again growing. I do not know how I am creating, but I am creating. My nail is growing—I am growing, I am creating. But I do not know. That is ignorance.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: So this earth and all is made out of Kṛṣṇa, but is not Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: It is not Kṛṣṇa. Or you can say, Kṛṣṇa and not Kṛṣṇa simultaneously. That is our philosophy. One and different. You cannot say different because these things without Kṛṣṇa has no existence. At the same time you cannot say, "Then let me worship water. Why Kṛṣṇa?" That the pantheists, they say, that "Because everything is God, so whatever I take, that is God worship." The Rama-Krishna Mission says like that. But that's wrong.
Bob: The Rama-Krishna Mission says that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the Māyāvādīs. "Because everything is made of God, therefore everything is God." That is their... But our philosophy is everything is God, but not God also.
Prabhupāda: No, it is Kṛṣṇa. But you have to know the process that it is Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa.
Bob: It is not just earth and mud, it is Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: No, earth... Earth has no separate existence without Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, "It's my energy." You cannot separate the energy and the energetic. It is not possible. You cannot separate heat from fire. But fire is different from the heat. And heat is different from the fire. You are taking heat, that does not mean you are touching fire. Fire, in spite of expanding heat, it keeps its identity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa by His different energies creating everything, He remains Kṛṣṇa. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they think, "If Kṛṣṇa is everything, then Kṛṣṇa's separate identity is not there." That is material thinking. Just like drinking this milk, so little, little, when I finish, there is no more milk. It has gone to my belly. Kṛṣṇa is not like that.
Prabhupāda: When I was about six months old, I still remember very vividly, I was lying down on the lap of my eldest sister, and she was knitting. I remember still. Yes, six months. I remember when I was only about one year old, there was a great saṅkīrtana in our house and I also joined the dancing party. And I was seeing up to their knees, very small. So I remember those days. And then after that, I was a boy. I was very much fond of cycling. So many things. Yes. So many dangers, so many adventures. Now I am old man. So all those different stages of body, I remember. But these bodies are not existing. So similarly, I remember or forget, but I was in different types of body—that's a fact. So similarly, after leaving this body, I will have another body. That is natural conclusion. What is the difficulty? Why I shall conclude that after end of this body? (end)
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are different nations. They are already existing. So jāti means that. Jāti means born of a particular species. That is jāti. Jīva-jātiṣu. Ṣu, plural number. So many jīva-jātiṣu. He's simply Bhramadbhiḥ. Just like I am traveling, sometimes America, some Australia, sometimes... But they are already there. I am going sometimes in America, sometimes Australia, sometimes Africa, but they are already there. I am the man; I am traveling. Not that because I have to come to America, I create America. This is nonsense. And there are many countries I have not gone there. Does it mean that they are not existing? They have no even human reason, these rascal scientists. The common sense reason. And Bhagavad-gītā clearly says they are already existing. Wherever you like, you can go. You can go even up to the kingdom of God if you so desire. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Lord Brockway: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But that body is no longer there; your childhood body, that is not existing. Now you are existing in a different body. So you were existing, that's a fact. Because you remember. But that body's not existing. Similarly, when this body will not exist, you'll exist. This is natural conclusion. Your, that childhood body is no longer existing. Your youthhood body is no longer existing. That's a fact. And it is also a fact that you had such and such body. Therefore you, as the soul, you are permanent, even changing so many types of bodies. Similarly, the conclusion should be when you give up this body, you'll be in another body.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Lord Brockway: I wouldn't say it has convinced me one has to think...
Prabhupāda: No... Yes, one has to think, one has to consider. But this is the fact, that I have changed so many bodies, I remember them, but the bodies are not existing, I am existing. This is very simple philosophy. And it is stated, confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā, and it is accepted by all the ācāryas, learned scholars. So there is change of body or transferring from one body to another. That's a fact. Under the circumstances, we should consider what kind of body will be nice next. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: American, they cheated the Red Indians. They got the land. Now they are claiming, "It is my land." But where you got this land? You have cheated the Red Indians, and you claim now it is your land. "Nobody should come here." Everywhere that is there it belongs to... Napoleon, he thought, "France is mine." France is there. Where he has gone, the proprietor? Yes. And with this idea he fought so much. Now nobody knows what he has become, where he is living, either in France or in hell, maybe in heaven. But there are so many places and so many forms of life. And our Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. Just like I am now in this body. Child is in this body. So all of us sometimes were in this body, childish. So where is that body? That body is not existing. But I am existing; you are existing. You know that you had such a body. You were also playing like this child. I also remember. So the body is not existing. I am existing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So... We... This is the first step of spiritual understanding. That one must know that he's not this body. Actually anyone can understand. It is a very simple thing. I'm not this body because I had many types of body, in this life also, a child's body, a baby's body, boy's body, youth's body. Now we have got different body. So the body's changing. That's a fact. The child, you do not possess any more that, your childhood body. It is gone. Your boyhood body—gone, your youth-hood body—gone. Now you have got a different body. So although the bodies are not existing, you are existing. That's a fact.
Guest (1): Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Then, again they come down to this material world and he takes birth either in a very exalted brāhmaṇa family, śucīnām, or very rich, vaiśya family. After enjoying there, again he's given chance to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. And if he misses, then again he goes down. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says these are all false elevation. If I have to come again back, again I have to accept another lower grade life, then what is the profit? Kṛṣṇa gives His straight understanding, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti: (BG 4.9) You become Kṛṣṇa conscious. After the giving up this body, no more material body either in the heavenly planet or in the lower hellish planet. "You come direct to Me." That is perfection. You should not be attracted by somebody has gone to heavenly planet for ten thousands of years living. We should not be attracted by these things. Therefore Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī says, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate tridaśa-pur ākāśa-puṣpāyate. Tridaśa-pur means the heavenly planets. Ākāśa, it is just like will of the wisp. Something, just like, what do you say Hindi? There are many proverbs, which has no existence. Just like in Bengali we say ghoḍā-ḍima. Ghoḍa-ḍima. Ḍima means egg. The horse never lays down egg. But the word is running on: "the egg of horse." So it has no existence but the word is there. Similarly, what do you say in Hindi? Something which has no existence but it is current. I think there is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetfulness means māyā.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Māyā is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.
Sudāmā: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy, mentally, should, they still should continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy...
Prabhupāda: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Umāpati: Is darkness eternal?
Prabhupāda: No. Darkness is within this universe, not outside. Not outside.
Karandhara: Darkness has no separate existence.
Prabhupāda: Darkness means absence of light. That is darkness. It is the negation of light. Similarly, material life means forgetfulness of God. That's all... What is our spiritual life? We are simply trying to revive our understanding of God. That is spiritual life. And when you perfectly revive, that is spiritual. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...whatever you do, that is your defeat. Because you cannot see things in the proper perspective, therefore in darkness or in ignorance, whatever you do, that is your defeat. Therefore we see that so much advancement of education, civilization, but everything is defeat. Nobody's satisfied.
Karandhara: But Rockefeller is constantly having to prove and assert his power.
Prabhupāda: No, prove to you, prove to me, but there are many who does not know. So that does not mean the Rockefeller is not existing. Your limited sense cannot approach. Therefore you cannot say that the thing is not existing. That is another rascaldom.
Karandhara: Well, on the other hand, they say what you can't say you...
Prabhupāda: No, I can't say? Why I cannot say? I am saying, that this man is richer than this man. This man is richer than this man. You go on, go on, go on, studying. But if you cannot study, you cannot approach, that is your inefficiency. But there is existing actually. This man is greater than this man, this man is greater than... That's all. But who is that highest educated... That you do not see. That does not mean He is not existing. There must be, because the step is going on. How can you deny this?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi) Nothing to do and no, no... (break) ...prāṇa, dharma...
Prabhupāda: He's no longer existing.
Dr. Patel: Government is not existing even by (indistinct). No, not by... (break) There is no...
Prabhupāda: They chant very (indistinct) Yes. Father, mother is sophisticated. (sound of children talking in Gujarati) Hare Kṛṣṇa!
Children: Hare Kṛṣṇa! Haribol!
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everywhere (indistinct) but their father will not say. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). (break) We shall wait. (end)
Prabhupāda: Hmm. They're... Beings are already there, everywhere.
Satsvarūpa: But you said it was all submerged in water.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But he's there. Suppose if you live within the water, does it mean that you are not existing?
Satsvarūpa: No, but generally, human beings...
Bhagavān: Human species.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Bhagavān: Does the human species come with the gradual evolution or is the human species created first?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mādhavānanda: From boyhood to youth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is transmigration? Transmigration means the first body you lose; you enter a second body, a third body, fourth. So your childhood body is not existing. Therefore you are in different body.
Mādhavānanda: So that way anyone can understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way of understanding. And Kṛṣṇa says, the authority, that "This is the way." It is not that I have manufactured some philosophy. No. The most powerful authority, He says. So where is the position to deny it? Who can deny it, Kṛṣṇa's statement? If somebody denies, then he is a rascal. That's all. Therefore we say that we have no difficulty to find out a rascal. As soon as one denies this, Kṛṣṇa's statement, he is a rascal. That's it. Anyone who does not accept the transmigration of the soul, he is a rascal, that's all, immediately. So easily understood, and still they will not understand. What is the possible objection?
Prabhupāda: It is not religion. It is fact. It is not... Religion is sometimes explained as sentiment, but this is fact, that father and son... Without father there is no existence of son, and without son there is no meaning of father. This is science. This is not religion. This is science. As soon as you speak of father means he must have a son, or most. And as soon as a son, he must have a father. So this is a question of "must," not sentiment.
Professor Durckheim: It is one of the great phrases of the Gospel of St. John which the church forgot, that Christ always says, "I am the son of God, and you are my brother. You are sons of God just as I am."
Guest (2): So we are in God, and God is in us?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Without God we have no existence.
Satsvarūpa: "A true yogi observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized man sees Me everywhere." That's different.
Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, do you think that every human being will become liberated?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Aiye.
Guest (2): Thank you very much for your time.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Existence of thing... I say that at night, when I am dreaming, I do not see existence of these things. And at this time, in daytime, when I am seeing these things, I do not see the existence of the dream. So the conclusion should be both these things I see in daytime and I see at night, they have no existence. They are phenomenal. But I am the seer; I am eternal. I am existing. This is the proof. Because at night I am seeing and daytime I am seeing, so therefore I am eternal. But the phenomenal manifestation, they are temporary. We don't say it is false. Temporary. The Māyāvādī philo... Śaṅkara said it is false. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Mithyā means false. We don't say false. We don't say that this book is false. It has got reality, but temporary. This book has come into form at a certain date, and it will exist for certain days, and when it will be worn out or old, there will be no existence. Therefore the formation of this book is temporary. But I am the reader of the book; I am eternal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the baby is, the soul is, transmigrated from baby's body to child's body, child's body to boy's body, boy's body to youthful body, so the body vanishes, and because the soul remains, he gets another body. Now I am old man. I remember I had a child's body, I was lying down. I quite remember it. But that body is not existing. So this is the example. Everyone has experience. This is transmigration of the soul from one body to another. And at the time of death, the psychological condition of the mind will carry me to a suitable body, and I shall enter into the womb of my mother through the semina of the father, and the mother will give that a particular type of body, and when it is completely manufactured, then I come out and begin my again. Therefore we find varieties of forms, but in each and every form there is the soul. Now, in the human form of life, we should utilize our intelligence that "This constant change of body, how it can be stopped?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the material world, goodness is prone to be contaminated. In the spiritual world, the other two qualities, they are not existing. So there is no question of contamination. Here all men are covered by these two base qualities, all men and animal, everyone, passion and ignorance. Therefore, first of all, they have to be brought to the platform of goodness. And if they can keep goodness uncontaminated, they are transferred to the spiritual world.
Devotee (1): Just like you say. Some of the devotees, they fall down although they're striving to be in the mode of goodness. If they're sincere, they still fall down?
Justin Murphy: But they're the same bones, it's the same skin.
Prabhupāda: But you are the same man. That's a fact. You understand that you were a child or you were a boy, youthful boy, jumping. You remember that body, but that body is not existing. That's a fact.
Justin Murphy: I can't agree.
Prabhupāda: And why not? Suppose somebody had seen your childhood body, and for many years he has not seen you, and he all of a sudden comes. Suppose your father's friend. So father introduces. He says, "Oh, you are the same?" He will be surprised because he saw you in a childhood body.
Justin Murphy: But I'm less interested in what...
Prabhupāda: But he... Just like... It is not the question of discover, but because you are existing, you must have come from a father. That is science. It is not the question of finding out a father. Without father, there is no existence of you. It is not the question of finding out a father. Father must be there. This is science. Without father, is there any existence of any man or any animal? What your science says? Is it possible that anyone is existing without a father? What do you think?
Guest (4): I was just wondering, um, do you believe in...
Prabhupāda: Who is there independently existing without having a father? What is that science?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.
Brahmānanda: Equally, He says. Sama tītāni. He knows the past, the present and the future.
Prabhupāda: And He says in another place, "It is not that we were not existing in the past, and neither it is that we shall not exist in the future." So this is past, present, future. Tri-kāla-jñā. So we are not going to the temple?
Prabhupāda: No. Yes, we also say. Although everything is expansion of the energy of Kṛṣṇa, not that everything is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. Vaiṣṇava philosophy takes everything as expansion of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Parāsya brāhmaṇa śaktiḥ. (Aside:) Jaya. Sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Everything is expansion of the energy of the Supreme Brahman. Kṛṣṇa confirms it, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no existence. But that does not mean anything existentional is Kṛṣṇa. That is Māyāvāda philosophy.
Brahmānanda: These religions even say that it is offensive to say the name of God.
Prabhupāda: So what can I do? (laughter) If the rascal says something, so what can I do?
Prabhupāda: There is no material. When you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Just like madness. Madness is not our natural position, but when your brain is deranged, then it is madness. Madness has no separate existence, but when our brain is not in order, there is madness. Similarly, there is nothing material, because everything has come from Kṛṣṇa. The original source is Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So the material world, the so-called material world, has come from Kṛṣṇa. So if it has come from Kṛṣṇa how it is material? The cause and effect is the same, maybe differently manifested. Just like cotton, cotton made into thread, the shape has changed, but it is cotton. And from the cotton thread, you make cloth. The cloth is cotton. But if I say, "Cotton. Bring cotton," then you'll bring cotton, not this cloth. But the cloth is also cotton. Now understand? Cloth is nothing but cotton.
Yaśomatīnandana: They believe in whatever is existing now. Whatever is existing now, or whatever they...
Prabhupāda: And what is not existing which is mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭam (BG 4.13). Still people say, "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am kṣatriya," "I am this," "I am that." It is existing.
Yaśomatīnandana: They would even believe the mundane historians more than the śāstras. The historians have very funny stories. The Aryans came from the northeast Asia or something.
Indian man (1): Central Asia.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) And still you are proud. What is this nonsense? And supposing the chemical combination is there and is being administered in different way for different life, then who is making this arrangement? Somebody's there who is making arrangement. You cannot do that. Therefore we are inferior, He is superior. You have to accept. It is not that it is not existing. It is existing. So as you are trying to do something, somebody has already done it. Then what is your credit?
Haṁsadūta: On the one hand, they say that the creation was a chance, accident, and on the other hand, they're trying to find the law of nature. So this is a contradiction.
Prabhupāda: Just see. And the law. Just see. And law, law, nature is not giving him chance. And he's depending on chance theory. He's so unfortunate rascal that he does not get even the chance. So discuss these things in different ways and issue a small pamphlet in Russian language. Or any language. Doesn't matter.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "They" not. What I am talking with you. They are all foolish. We call them mūḍhas, duṣkṛtino mūḍhas. So their demand is not legitimate. If a mūḍha... If your small child says, "Father, give me a bidi, cigarette," would you give him? Because he is mūḍha. So the father is intelligent—"No." So similarly, the mūḍhas may demand that "Open this hospital." But we are not going to do that. We know.... Of course, hospital required so far the body is concerned, but there are so many hospitals. The real hospital which is not existing, we are starting. That is our mission, which is not possible for the so-called leaders and politicians. Try to clear this.
Yaśodānandana: Once you mentioned the story that when you were young you saw a mother running across the street in Calcutta beating her child because his brother had typhoid fever and he fed him the paratha.
Prabhupāda: Yes, matter is utilized for the purpose of spirit soul. Otherwise matter has no independent existence. The whole thing is matter, but it is formed according to the desire of the spirit.
Hari-śauri: So if matter is inferior to the spirit soul, then isn't it correct to say that the spirit soul is more complex or sophisticated than matter? If matter is inferior?
Prabhupāda: Spirit soul is living. Naturally he has got desires. That is not complexity. That is a symptom of life.
Rūpānuga: Matter has no desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not convenient, foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This dehāntara-prāptiḥ, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So why they do not believe dehāntara-prāptiḥ? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still.
Prabhupāda: "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand.
Prabhupāda: By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up. These children are spoiled. They have given up meat-eating and illicit sex. Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Last year they exported so much of this groundnut. Groundnut oil is costlier than ghee. (talks on for few minutes)
Prabhupāda: So we can go? (end)
Prabhupāda: Whether it has got any value? Whether such statement has any value?
Harikeśa: Whether such statement has any value?
Ādi-keśava: To say that it has no existence, that it is all void.
Prabhupāda: One, you... Talk on this point. Just like a small animal, rabbit. When he's attacked, he closes the eyes. He thinks, "There is nothing." Now he is devoured. So it is like that. He cannot adjust things, and "That is zero, bas." But that's not the fact. Hm? Simply by closing your eyes you want to avoid danger? Discuss on this.
Bhakti-prema: When we generalize our senses inwards, it becomes inert. When we go beyond body and senses it becomes inert. But we have to penetrate deep into that state of consciousness, and it can be possible only through Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no... Matter means matter develops on spirit. Without spirit there is no existence of matter. Just like spirit means consciousness. You see in this finger. Here is consciousness, and little after, there is no consciousness, this nail. But the nail has grown from the skin. So therefore, from consciousness, unconsciousness... Not that from unconsciousness, consciousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good example.
Prabhupāda: Unconsciousness means absence of consciousness.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Unconsciousness also means no life?
| Page Title: | No existence (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of May, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=43, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 43 |