Prabhupāda: Yes, social work, this is the best social work. People are in ignorance, and we are giving them knowledge. Is it not the best social work? If you keep the man in ignorance and if you give him something... Just like your child. You simply give him to eat but no education. Then what is the benefit? Is that very good nice work, that you give your children nice food to become robust but no education? Is that very good nice work? People are, in this human form of life, especially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. So they are keeping them in darkness and teaching them technology, how to make cycle. That's all. The life is meant for understanding God, and they have been educated for making cycle and sewing machine.
No education (Conversations 1975 - 1977)
Expressions researched:
"No artificial education"
|"No more education"
|"no academic education"
|"no compulsory education"
|"no cultural education"
|"no departmental education"
|"no education"
|"no good education"
|"no medical education"
|"no moral education"
|"no other education"
|"no proper education"
|"no right education"
|"no scientific education"
|"no spiritual education"
|"no such education"
|"no sufficient education"
|"no sufficient education"
|"no systematic education"
|"no university education"
|"not adequately educated"
|"not become educated"
|"not becoming educated"
|"not been educated"
|"not being educated"
|"not completely educated"
|"not educated"
|"not even educated"
|"not highly educated"
|"not nicely educated"
|"not properly educated"
|"not so educated"
|"not sufficiently educated"
|"not very educated"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like if you infect a certain type of disease, you must suffer from that disease. Similarly, there are three qualities of the material nature. So as you associate with that quality, you get a similar body. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). How one is getting better life, one is getting worse life, the reason is associating, infecting the different types of modes of nature. That education we have no... There is no such education, what kind of association we should make so that we can better life or we can go back to home, back to God. There is no such education. They are living like cats and dogs and going to be cats and dogs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Outside also you can live. Simply you must know how to live. At the present moment you do not know how to live. That's all. And there is no education how to live. All of us being sent to the slaughterhouse, that's all. They do not know how to live. In the Vedic civilization you will find the first proposition is how to live. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). How to live... First the human society is divided into four: the brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, or the śūdra. The first-class intelligent man, they are educated as brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa means satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42).
Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view. Then?
Paramahaṁsa: But we have seen in the Eastern countries where the people don't eat meat, they are at the same time very primitive. Very uncivilized, like savages.
Amogha: They don't have enough food.
Paramahaṁsa: No technology, no education.
Prabhupāda: Because you have plundered them for the last two thousand years. You rascals, rogues, you have plundered. You have taken all their money, all their jewels, all their gold, and made British Museum. (laughter) It is due to you. (noise in background) What is the dog? Some dog?
Prabhupāda: The simple truth. But people have no education. That is the defect of the modern civilization. This is the fact, that you are accepting every moment a different body. So after death, you will have to accept another body. Now, we should know, "What kind of body I am going to accept next?" That is intelligence. That is civilization.
Justin Murphy: Do you mean that the, that that, then, will allow me, if I come to that realization, that that will allow me to then continue to improve my mind, continue to study, to think, to gain knowledge...
Prabhupāda: The knowledge should be acquired from the beginning of life, from childhood. But if by circumstances I could not get this knowledge from childhood, then we should begin immediately. Because unless we get this knowledge, our life remains imperfect. We remain animal. The animal does not know this. And after evolutionary process, coming to the human form of body, if we keep ourself in the darkness of animal life, then our this opportunity is lost. This is the first problem. Unfortunately, the modern education is... Leaders, they have no education, and they are thinking just like animal that "I am this body." Therefore you are thinking you are Australian, I am thinking I am Indian, he is thinking American, he..., only on this bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. We are different from this body. So unless we understand this point, our aim of life, our standard of civilization, is incorrect.
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, when you leave this material world, will there be another spiritual master after you? Another pure soul?
Prabhupāda: Then that spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and...
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it?
Prabhupāda: But we don't follow that process. We follow one standard knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa. That is our distinction between the ordinary scholars and our... And we are on the safe side because we don't manufacture, speculate. That is troublesome. If I have to defeat you, then I will have to speak so many things. I will have to find out the device how can I defeat you. But we have got one standard knowledge. I may be fool, rascal, but we repeat Kṛṣṇa. So our method is very easy. We are challenging everyone. Just like there are many scientific disciples. So I am not a science man. I have never studied science. But scientists, they are becoming my disciple. From material point of view, I have no education in science, but why the scientist is becoming my disciple? Is he becoming fool?
Prabhupāda: Therefore he says, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" Because there is no education. He does not know the difference between dog and the human being. Therefore he says that "What is the wrong if I become a dog? I will get more facility for sex without any criminal charges." This is the advancement of education.
Prabhupāda: That is the proof, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). When the body is finished, no more working, the soul is there, he has accepted another body. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are educated, sober they are not surprised. Those who are not educated, they are surprised. Therefore this very word is used, dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra means one who is sober by education. He knows the soul has now left this body. He has accepted another body. That is dhīra. He knows by education. Therefore this very word... Find out.
Prabhupāda: Unmotivated means "Oh, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, service of Kṛṣṇa, is so nice. Let me begin immediately." Now, "What will be the result? What shall I gain? What is the profit?" No such consideration. "Begin immediately." And if you begin in that way, there is no impediment. Apratihatā. It is so nice thing. In the material world, if you want to begin some work, then you require some preliminary qualification. It doesn't require any preliminary qualification. Whatever qualification you have got, that is sufficient. Begin. And nobody can say, "Oh, I am not educated," "I am not rich," or "I am not born of a high family." There are so many. No. These things are not impediments. Educated or uneducated, culture or no culture, it doesn't matter. You can begin immediately.
Prabhupāda: And that is the beginning of real life. If we take care of the circumstances, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs, everyone. Where to find eatables, where to find sex, where to find shelter for sleeping, and how to defense—these circumstances are understood by the animals. There is no need of education. Just like this morning I pointed out. The bird is catching a small fish, "Fut!" He knows where to find out his eatable. And that you cannot do. You also eat fish, but you jump over and take a fish. You cannot do that. But he can do that. He is more expert than you. (guests chuckle) Yes. In the troubled water, he is flying. He can see a small fish and immediately pick it up. Can you do that? So he is more advanced in civilization. (laughter) He knows his techniques. He is greater scientist than you. You cannot do this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not educated properly. Not only that they have given photograph: the children take small..., yes, weapon, knife. And examination is held under police vigilance. This is the education.
Mrs. Wax: Some of us are parents of devotees and when you came to America nine years ago, eight years ago...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prof. Hopkins: Then would it be, would it be dangerous for someone who is not at that level to study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or would they simply not understand it?
Prabhupāda: Dangerous means if one is not completely educated of self-realization he has the risk of degradation.
Prof. Hopkins: He has what?
Prabhupāda: The risk of degradation. Now I have got human form of body, I may degrade to animal. Because transmigration of the soul. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara prāptir, after death one gets another body. Now, what kind of body, that depends on his work. Ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthāḥ (BG 14.18).
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's fact. Therefore for the neophytes, less intelligent, they should believe. That is the only way, viśvāsa. So generally mass of people they are not so educated. They should believe.
Devotee (6): It says in the Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that viśvāsa śabde śudṛdha niścaya. Śudṛdha niścaya, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. Śraddhā, śraddhā. Śraddhā means faith. So in Christian science also, there is state, faithful. So this faith may be blind, but that is required.
Paramahaṁsa: Like a child.
Prabhupāda: They will not come. Then he is condemned. Let them remain animals. If you don't go to school, there is no question of education. Where is the question of education? One must go to the school with faith that "I will be educated." That is required.
Yadubara: But if they take some prasādam, that will help them?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your mercy, that you are... He is faithless rascal. "All right, you take prasādam. That will help you." Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And where is that education?
Member: That is real education.
Prabhupāda: That is... But where is that education? There is no such education all over the world.
Member: Only great gurus like you can enlighten the whole world. Only very rarely such people come only for the benefit of the people...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but those who are leaders, those who are leading the people, they are not interested. They are misleading.
Dr. Patel: This Bhagavad-gītā has got everything, all aspects of life.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the beginning of teaching, that "You are not this body." If you remain in the false understanding that "I am this body," "I am Indian," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," there is no spiritual education. Mohita. That is called mohita. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair, mohitaṁ nābhijānāti. He remains in ignorance. (aside:) (Hindi) Jaya.
Passerby: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He's a great devotee. Humbleness.
Prabhupāda: So we can return. (break) Whole educational system is defective because there is no spiritual education. That has made everything impossible.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One young boy in Johannesburg wanted to join us. He is sixteen years old. So his headmaster said, "What you will do without an education?" They think that this is the greatest ignorance. These are the leaders of education, the headmaster. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...spiritual education, he remains an animal. That's all. (break) That is Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. To find out the ultimate goal, that is education. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "Wherefrom everything is coming," that is education.
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying to eradicate this conception of life, bodily conception of life. The animals... An animal, he is also thinking, "I am dog," "I am cat," "I am cow," "I am ass," on account of this bodily concept of life. And if we human beings, we also remain in that bodily concept of life, then we are no better than the animals. So if we remain animals, there cannot be any peace. You bring a dozens of dogs, and if you keep them, they cannot be improved. They will remain as animal. They have no capacity. And if you ask them to live peacefully, it is not possible, because they are animals. Similarly, if we human beings, although we are not animals, but we are not being educated as human being, and therefore we remain as animal, so how there can be any peace?
Prabhupāda: This is the best social work. We are making animal into man. Already I have begun this, that because they are not educated how to become human being, so they remain animals. So this is the best social work, that we are bringing animals, two-legged animals, to real human being. If a human being is not properly educated, he remains an animal. So this is the proper education. Therefore we are bringing animals to human being.
Guest (3): Has your movement arranged once any particular event which is a movement in a particular country?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is māyā, no education. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are giving intelligence; therefore they are understanding. But there is no such propaganda. There was no such propaganda.
Brahmānanda: One of those reporters yesterday was saying "Well, there's so many philosophies from India. Why have you started this one?" But actually no other philosophy has given this message.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said that "Why you are bringing India? The whole world is in darkness." (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Good morning.
Cyavana: We can see in some of our boys in Kenya. Practically they have no education and very little intelligence, but still, they are doing everything. They're falling down. They are offering all the prayers. They are taking prasādam. They are chanting. They are doing everything, even they don't have the intelligence to understand why.
Prabhupāda: You said that no chemical is missing.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No chemical difference.
Prabhupāda: But why it is dead?
Prabhupāda: The nature's law is different. That is acting in a different way, which you do not know. He is forcing you to become old. He is forcing you to die. Still, you do not know how much you are under the grip of the laws of nature. Such a foolish man, and you are engaged in building skyscraper. Just see. He does not take care that "I am being forced to become something against my will, and I am freely doing all this nonsense." Just like the dog. Dog is thinking, "I am free," running here and there. As soon as the master, "Come on." (laughter) Just see. Even dog has no sense that "I was jumping like free, but I am not free." That sense he hasn't got. So if a human being has not so such sense, what is the difference between him and the dog? Hm? This is to be considered. But they have no sense, no brain, no education, and they are still going on as civilized. Just see. Mūḍha. Therefore mūḍho ('yaṁ) nābhijānāti (BG 7.25).
Prabhupāda: We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā. So the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is the teaching of transmigration of the soul. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So that is our first concern, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. This body will not exist, and we have to accept another body. Kṛṣṇa says, dehāntara-prāptiḥ, "another body." Now, there are 8,400,000 different types of body. Which body I am going to accept, there is no education. So I am kept in darkness. So what is the value of my education?
Prabhupāda: No. That means it is simply talking. It has no realization. Unless you understand that you are not this body—you are spirit soul—there is no question of inward. That we have to study first of all, whether I am this body, or I am something within this body. That is inward. But that they do not understand. There is no education in the school, college or university. Everyone is thinking "I am this body." You see? Just like in this country, everywhere: "We are South African. They are Indian. They are this. They are this. They are this." So whole bodily concept, the whole world... "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German." So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means it starts when one is above the bodily conception of life. Then the starting begins.
Prabhupāda: You have no position. You cannot take the Western culture properly, and you have lost your own culture. This is India's bad luck. They never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized. No. They were not giving them sufficient education. They were very much against higher education in the beginning. They wanted some clerks to conduct their activities, mercantile and government, some third-class, fourth-class men. Educated means ABCD, that's all. "They may know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees salary, and go home outside the town and come in daily passenger train, and work hard here and simply get your money so that you can maintain yourself." Nothing more. No education, no money, no industry. They were not taught properly. Here I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice. But Indian factories, go—it is hell.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no such education, that there are dehāntara-praptiḥ (BG 2.13) and there are 8,400,000 different forms of deha. Which one he is going to get? Nobody is serious about it. He thinks, "Things will go on like this. I am very free to do anything." That is going on. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, rascal. Duṣkṛtino mūḍha. They will never hear the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. They will do whatever he likes and interpret in a different way. (Hindi) Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāh (BG 7.15). He could take the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā and make his life perfect, but because he is mūḍha and full of sinful activities he will not do that.
Dr. Patel: māyayāpahṛta-jñānam asurīṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhūnām (SB 1.4.25). It is meant for less intelligent class of men: stri, woman; śūdra; and dvija-bandhu. Dvija-bandhu means persons who are born in high family but they have no education. Just like a man born in brāhmaṇa family...
Dr. Patel: Brahma-bandhu.
Prabhupāda: ...but without education, without qualification, he wants to become a brāhmaṇa. They are called brahma-bandhu or dvija-bandhu. So Mahābhārata is meant for the, these persons: stri-śūdra-dvija-bandhunam. They cannot understand directly the Vedic injunctions; therefore it is simplified in a history. Mahābhārata is the history. History and stories, ordinary people, they can read with interest.
Prabhupāda: What are these? Apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. It has no value. But people are enamored by these things, "I belong to great nation. I am American. We have got so many industries. We have got so many cars." Attachment. So it is very difficult. Sarvo-padhi-vinirmuktam. One, after becoming completely freed from all these false designations, to become a devotee is very, very difficult. There is no education.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Formerly these goldsmith boys, their father simply taught how to test gold. And as soon as he learns, he opens a shop and he earns thousands and thousands of rupees. No education. Simply by...
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Even today the jewelers' sons, they are expert in knowing diamonds and they make millions of rupees.
Indian man (6): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: This is Indian old fashion. They simply know how to test jewels and gold. That's all. One knowledge makes him rich.
Prabhupāda: No. Here are Americans. Is that the education? I don't think so.
Dr. Patel: No, postgraduate education is like that. Not undergraduate. The postgraduate boys are living in close contact with the professors for the research.
Brahmānanda: Only a few schools.
Dr. Patel: Ah, but there are. The research is...
Prabhupāda: No, the professor is also drunkard.
Dr. Patel: Then he may be a drunkard.
Brahmānanda: They drink together. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Farce, yes. No education. Amongst the Marwaris, the respectable gentlemen, they don't send. They keep private teachers, paṇḍitas, for learning Sanskrit, English. They know that our, "My boy hasn't got to earn money. He has to sit here. That's all. Why he should be spoiled?" They know very well, "We can purchase these technologists."
Indian man (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Everything farce. There is no education.
Prabhupāda: (break) How to kill child. This is education. Huh? Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How to get equal rights.
Prabhupāda: No, equal rights, that's all right. This is the education. The uneducated girls do not do this. (break)
Prabhupāda: There is no education for making people a human being.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hagel and Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which I mean agrees with the matter. The very first basis on which this rascaldom is, I mean the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No?
Prabhupāda: Hindu-Muslim teaching...
Dr. Patel: No, I mean sanātana dharma of this country.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not education. This jara avidya, material education, is no education. It doesn't require any education. This education for eating, sleeping, education, that is not education, that is cats and dogs they also know how to do it without education. Real education is brahma-vidyā. Athāto brahma jijñāsā—this is education. So that is now given up throughout the whole world. Nobody is interested in Brahman; they are simply interested in sense gratification.
Dr. Patel: Because I think, sir, the method of education the world over is absolutely different...
Prabhupāda: That is real education.
Dr. Patel: And then they are prepared right from the brahmacārī āśrama for the highest goal, till they become a sannyāsī. Here he, he's neither this nor there.
Prabhupāda: No, there is no education. Real education is not there. Just like Cānakya Paṇḍita, he was not a spiritual man, but he was a prime minister. Still, he gave the standard of becoming educated.
Prabhupāda: That's not.... As soon as you think "He is my enemy and he is my friend," then there is no education. That's all. This is standard of education. Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu. That is education. Sama darśinaḥ. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva (BG 5.18). That is education. That is.... Kṛṣṇa says, nanu śocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Nanu śocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Ah, you are rascal." It is not the business of the paṇḍita to think like that. He never thought that the Kauravas were the enemy. No. That is not the fact. It is duty to fight the just cause. That was His instruction.
Prabhupāda: And bhakta... Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. There is no education; therefore Kṛṣṇa has spoken of these people as mūḍha. "No, they are educated. They have passed so many examination"—māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. This kind of education has no value because they are forgetting the real point of education. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15).
Dr. Patel: So what is āsurī, would be...
Prabhupāda: Āsurī means godlessness. "There is no God; I am God."
Dr. Patel: Believing in the...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that there is no education. They do not know what is interest. They are making a small limitation, that "This is my country. My interest is to become a national. I will sacrifice my life for this, that, this..." Whole world is going on like this. Na te vidhuḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum.
Dr. Patel: And, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is brahmacārī. Where is that education?
Prabhupāda: Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭan kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This is instruction. Where is culture? Culture is lost. So therefore there is no value of education. And besides that, education means spiritual education. Brahma-vidyā. This education how to make aeroplane or a nice bridge or a machine, this is called kalā-vidyā. This is not vidyā.
Dr. Patel: Para and apara vidyā.
Prabhupāda: No, kalā.... Kalā means artistic. Suppose a carpenter, he knows how to make a very nice, good furniture, does it mean that he is educated? He knows the art, some artistic way, that's all; but he is not educated. But nowadays it is going on that if you know some art, technology, then you are educated. This is not education. Education means culture.
Dr. Patel: Yes. And culture means...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the proprietor." But they'll not accept it. Kṛṣṇa says, the real proprietor says, that "I am the bhokta. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29)." But they are so rascal that they will deny the existence of Kṛṣṇa or God, or the real proprietor. They claim to be proprietor for a few days, and they, by one slap of Kṛṣṇa's hand, they finished all proprietorship, and they are going, struggling. This ignorance is prevailing all over the world. Does not know who is the proprietor, how I became proprietor, how I shall be enjoying. Nothing. The same thing, the dog philosophy: if the dog secures a morsel of bread, he's thinking, "I am proprietor." Another one snatches: "I am proprietor." This is going on. But the dog has no sense that none of us will be proprietor. So when you know who is the proprietor, then this Īśopaniṣad.... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything, God's property. You enjoy for livelihood what is given to you. That's all. That is perfect philosophy. "I am the proprietor." That was the system in Vedic civilization. God is proprietor. King is the representative of God. He knows.... He gives you some land, that "You take this land, produce your livelihood, utilizing this land, and whatever you produce, one fourth give me." Not a fixed tax. "If you produce, one fourth is mine. If you don't produce, there is no tax." This was the system. And that includes all tax. No botheration. So people were God-fearing, honest, simple-dealing. So "I have produced a hundred mounds of rice. The king, you can take twenty-five mounds. That is my obligation." And king is also satisfied. By distributing that grain, he maintains the whole government. The real difficulty is all these rascals, they are not sufficiently educated.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Acyutānanda: If you back and forward another man to... Usually it's in entertainment, to be a famous actor or a singer, then a man will be behind, supplying money and publicity and everything.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...well, let them translate all our English literature. We shall publish in Bengali.
Acyutānanda: I don't think they have that.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Acyutānanda: They're not educated.
Jayapatākā: Parvat.
Acyutānanda: Who is that?
Jayapatākā: The one that calls me "prabhu."
Acyutānanda: Parvat. Parvat, yes.
Prabhupāda: He has not such quandary. (break) ...he'll come with us, work with us.
Acyutānanda: And if they think their maṭha will deteriorate, then Prabhupāda has offered...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
Acyutānanda: They're not educated.
Jayapatākā: Parvat.
Acyutānanda: Who is that?
Jayapatākā: The one that calls me "prabhu."
Acyutānanda: Parvat. Parvat, yes.
Prabhupāda: He has not such quandary. (break) ...he'll come with us, work with us.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is civilization, that is there. The difficulty is they have no education about human civilization. Bahir-artha-māninā. They are simply captivated by the external energy, bodily conception of life. They do not know what is the aim of life. This is Western civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is not Western, this is the demonic civilization. They do not know what is the aim of life. Our..., the material atmosphere, they're not happy, they're failing always, missing the real point.
Prabhupāda: No, there are many. There are many. Now, you see, near Delhi there is Modi Nagar. That Mr. Modi was not very educated man, but how he has developed?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He is employing something like fifty thousand people.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) Mr. Modi near Delhi.
Dr. Patel: Modinagarawala.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is employing fifty thousand people, without any education.
Dr. Patel: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: That is being misused. There is no institution, no university, no education system, to understand what is that living force, without which it is a lump of matter. Where is that education?
Mike Barron: What do you call that force?
Prabhupāda: That is the soul, or consciousness. The same thing, the pilot. The pilot may be a small man, and the airship may be very gigantic. You can make still more. But the pilot is the same. So the body may be elephant or a small ant, but the pilot is the same. That is real understanding.
Prabhupāda: Their dullness. They are not being educated, but they are putting into the darkness of ignorance more and more. That is going on in the name of education.
Mike Barron: But some people are confused by the number of false gurus.
Prabhupāda: So why you bring guru? You try to understand yourself. If you are fool, then what guru will do?
Mike Barron: But there are people...
Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no education. The guru's duty is to give them education; the sannyāsī's duty is to give.... They do not give. They say, "Yes, you are all right. Give me some money." That's all. That they go: "I am avatāra, I am this, I am that," that's all. And he is.... He return (indistinct) to darkness. That's all. (break) ...they used to discover, whole method is finished.
Hari-śauri: Oh, yeah. During the war.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect always, especially in this age. There is no spiritual education. Hm? Do you think, Dr. Wolfe, there is spiritual education? Is there any in the school, colleges, universities?
Hṛdayānanda: He's saying if there's any real spiritual education in the colleges and schools.
Dr. Wolfe: To produce new sense-gratifiers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
- na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ
- durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ
- andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās
- te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ
- (SB 7.5.31)
They do not know what is the aim of life. Therefore there is no spiritual education. They do not know. Read further. You shall always hold classes. Read these books, discuss, try to understand. Then time will be properly utilized. Don't talk useless things. Some engagement. So long as you are engaged in the service of the Deity, that is very good. Otherwise, you should hold class, read these books, discuss amongst them. Then the proper utilization of time. Avyartha-kālatvam (Cc. Madhya 23.18-19). Advancement of devotional service means always be alert whether a moment is misused. Because you cannot get back even a moment of your life if you pay millions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, education, everywhere, all over the world, education is given when one is young. That is the time. I think here in America there is adult education?
Hṛdayānanda: But not so much. Some. That's usually for making more money. Someone has a job and he wants further training to get a higher-paying job, but not so much for knowledge.
Prabhupāda: So, what is the next verse?
Prabhupāda: For a common man it is little difficult, but it is very easy. We are talking of the spiritual platform, but common man does not understand what is spiritual, although it is very easy. My body, your body, is moving on account of spiritual spark. That's a fact; everyone can see. As soon as the spiritual spark, soul, is off, the body, it is simply lump of matter. That is a fact; everyone can see. But still they are not serious to understand what is that spiritual spark. There is no education. Mostly they are thinking there is no spiritual spark, the body is moving.... How it is moving? What is their explanation?
Prabhupāda: That is his blessing. He wanted; I tried. That's all. Whatever is being done, it is by his desire. Vaiṣṇava sata saṅkalpa.(?) Whatever he desires, that is to be fulfilled. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Therefore, full faith in guru, that is the prime factor of success. Not any other things, no qualifications, no education, only strong faith in guru. Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. This is the secret. So whatever little success is there, that was only this qualification, that I wanted to serve him. That's all. Otherwise, there was no business of coming here at the age of seventy years.
Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...
Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.
Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.
Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.
Richard: I think it requires more than education; it requires faith.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him. This is modern civilization. Ignorance. A civilization of ignorance. They do not know what is what. Simply speculating, wasting time, talking all nonsense. This is going on in the name of education, but actually they are in ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Daughter is also son. Son and daughter are the same position. If they are not educated, they become burden. Apaṇḍita, means not educated. Then they become burden, simply eyesore. That is another place he states: varam eko guṇī putro na ca mūrkha-śatair api. Ko 'rthaḥ putreṇa jātena yo na vidvān na bhaktimān. What is the use of such children, of son, who is neither a devotee nor a learned man? So, kāṇena cakṣuṣā kiṁ vā cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam. Just like blind eyes. What is the use of it? It is simply pains giving. You have got eyes, but if it is diseased, cataract or something, so what is the use of possessing these eyes? Sometimes it becomes so painful that the doctors, they pluck out. You know that? They get out the eyes completely, and decorate with a false eye. This is very delicate place.
Lekhaśravantī: It's the Holy Trinity Church.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Catholic?
Lekhaśravantī: Maybe it is. I'm not so educated in all these things.
Hari-śauri: I think it's Catholic.
Prabhupāda: So we shall have to go there? No.
Hari-śauri: It's very windy tonight, there is no sun.
Prabhupāda: What is this?
Hari-śauri: You can look. Whatever you decide.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is first class. Again repeat that.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness."
Prabhupāda: So why they should not be educated to become first-class men on this basis?
Scheverman: That's right. I would agree that that is a worthy and very important goal.
Prabhupāda: So where is that institution who is teaching these things?
Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. Younger, older, there is no restriction.
Guest (1): It doesn't appeal more to the young ones than to the older people?
Prabhupāda: No, any education, if you take young, youthtime, that is easily. For old man it is difficult, but he has to take so many years to forget what he has learned. (laughter) That is the difficulty. Young man, they are easily receptive. Old man thinks, "Why shall I give up my present understanding?" That is the difficulty. But if he gives up and takes to, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), if he takes to it, then immediately, in a moment. So this is, this plate is for me?
Prabhupāda: There was no preaching. There was no education on this subject. The Christian priests, they are unable to...
Kīrtanānanda: They have no knowledge themselves. How they can teach?
Hari-śauri: They are all giving up out of hopelessness themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are now asking... In Melbourne the priest asked me, "Swamiji, why Christian religion is dwindling? What we have done?" I told them, "What you have not done?" (laughs) They were little insulted.
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. When they fall sick, then they want to purify, go to the physician, but his whole life is impure, he doesn't know. Because it is impure, therefore they are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. That they do not know. But if you scrutinizingly examine all these different items of advancement of life, the modern man has no idea. That is being explained in this chapter. Therefore there is no such education, neither people are interested. Now higher art classes in the colleges, universities, no student will join. They are simply learning technological process. Go on.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends from the beginning of student life, kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1), they should be trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That Prahlāda Mahārāja recommends. Now from the very beginning of student life, because there is no education, he is trained up as demon. What can be done? So many things have to be reformed by pushing on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These are Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, whatever is described in the Bhagavad-gītā that is within the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to do all this. Water.
Prabhupāda: The parents won't like.
Hari-śauri: No. They say, because it's like an artificial.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is artificial. They are lowborn, there is no doubt about it. Otherwise, they are getting the all facilities, still they are wretched, poor, unclean, not educated, not gentle, everything. All bad behavior.
Prabhupāda: Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānam **. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the real commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra written by the author himself. The Vedānta-sūtra is also given by Vyāsadeva, and under the instruction of Nārada, his spiritual master... Get this light on. He wrote commentary on the Vedānta-sūtra. That is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also begins with the same aphorism, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñāh sva-rāṭ (SB 1.1.1). So actually, Vedānta-sūtra is explained by the author of the Vedānta in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So some rascals, without understanding Vedānta, without reading the commentary, natural commentary of the Vedānta-sūtra they are posing themselves as Vedantist. That means they are misguiding people. And because people are not educated, they're accepting these rascals as Vedantists. Actually, the so-called Vedantists, they are bluffers. They are not Vedantists. They do not know anything of the Vedānta. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, what is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that is real Vedānta. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, jīvasya tattva-jijñāsa. That is Vedānta-sutra-bhāṣya. Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no education, fools. They're childish. A child is playing, he's enjoying, but he does not know that he has to take education, he has to grow up, he'll become a young man. Sometimes, if he's not educated, he'll suffer. He doesn't know. He's playing. That's all. The father says "My dear child, you read." "No, I like playing." Similarly, they are childish, foolish, without any responsibility. The animals are doing like that. Ṛṣabhadeva says "No, no, no. This life is not for this purpose." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). Simply for sense gratification so much trouble, like hogs and dogs, this is not life. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena sattvam.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is for this purpose. People may come, see God, then you can think of God. There is no difficulty. If you see something, you think of it. That is man-manā bhava. And if you regularly do it then you become a devotee. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī. And when you come to the temple you worship Him. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). Worshiping means give and take. Take blessings and offer little fruit or little flower. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam. And if you cannot do anything, just offer your obeisances. Very simple thing. Even the child can perform it. But they will not do it. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why does he not do it? That is explained. Because unless one is sinful, duṣkṛtina... He has got merit, but he's utilizing his merit for sinful activities. Kṛti, kṛti means meritorious, but duṣkṛti, he has got merit, intelligence, but he's utilizing merit and intelligence for sinful activities. Therefore duṣkṛtina. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ. Mūḍha means rascal. He knows everything except God. Narādhama, the lowest of the mankind. The human life is meant for this purpose, to understand God. But he does not. Therefore we say narādhama, lowest of mankind. "But he is very educated." māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. He is so-called educated. Actually, he is not educated, because he does not know what is God. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. The basic principle is atheistic attitude. So these class of men will never offer obeisances or surrender to God.
Prabhupāda: You are falsely thinking "I am everything. I can, by technological understanding, improve the condition." But the real problem is, as it is put forward by Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We are put under the laws of material nature, by which we have to accept birth, death, old age and disease. This is our real problem. So unless you make a solution of these problems, there is actually no advancement of education. But the problems remains the same.
Bill Sauer: Saying that we're governed by the laws of nature, since we are a biological creature like the rest... (laughs)
Prabhupāda: So you should not remain under the laws of material nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very difficult.
Prabhupāda: All field of activities, they should reform. Then people will be happy. Not only happy in this life, but also next life. Unfortunately, the present education does not provide knowledge of next life. There is no such education. They are kept in darkness like cats and dogs. They do not know that there is life after death, and we get our next life according to our present activities—karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). These things are unknown. Very risky life. If I am prime minister in this life or president, and if I am going to become a dog next life, then what is the benefit of becoming prime minister or president? And nature's law is that you get your next life according to the mentality at the time of death. So if I have acted like cats and dogs throughout whole life, naturally I shall think like cats and dogs at the time of death.
Prabhupāda: This is janma. And śruta, to become very learned scholar. Janma, aiśvarya, to become very rich. Janmaiśvarya-śruta, śruta means education, and śrī, bodily beauty. These things are obtained on account of piety, pious activities. And just the opposite, low-class family, lowborn, no money, always poverty-stricken, no education, no bodily beauty, these are the results of impious activities. So the demigods means on account of their pious activities they get the situation in higher planet where the duration of life is ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to our six months. Such ten thousands of years. Very beautiful body, facilities. There... The other day I was reading about the bodily construction of woman there. They are ever-young, the chest is very hard.
Prabhupāda: This is going on. But where is the science to understand how the process is going on? Therefore people are kept in ignorance. They have dismissed the idea, that there is no life after death, that's all. (guest leaving) There is no education. They are kept in ignorance. That is the problem, risky civilization, that people are kept in dark ignorance about the problems of the life. They do not know. They are struggling from the beginning of life, but they do not know what is the problem of life. Neither they have any information what are all these different planets, how they are being used, who are using them. They have no information. They are making a show of going to the moon planet, Mars planet, useless attempt. And presenting some photograph from Arizona. That is going on.
Prabhupāda: So if you think of the Deity, where is the difficulty? (Hindi) Can anyone say that there is difficulty in thinking of Kṛṣṇa? And as soon as you think of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee, immediately. And as soon as you become a devotee, you'll offer something for worship. And at the end of worship, you offer your obeisances. There is no need of education or Vedānta knowledge. Vedānta knowledge means this, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). Four things. Anyone can do. And practically see. These foreigners, ten years, five years ago they did not know what is Kṛṣṇa, and because they are following this man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, they are now advanced devotees. So why Indians are lacking? Hmm? What is the objection?
Prabhupāda: That they do not know. That point is missing that there is another life which is eternal, blissful, life of knowledge. But they have no idea that we can eternally live without birth, death, old age, and disease. There is no information, neither education, but there is a life very... If you get eternal life, then the tribulations of material life no longer are there: birth, death, old age, and disease. But they have no idea or information because there is no intelligent man to understand that there is another life which is eternal, and life of bliss and knowledge. There is no information. That is the defect of the modern civilization, they are living like animals. No intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is (why) our gurukula is there. How these children are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, (indistinct), how they are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are doing the same thing, offering obeisances to the Deities, taking prasādam, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. In the same way as his father is doing. So automatically he's being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Good association, that is required. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvidaḥ. We are keeping this house for association of devotees so that automatically they become Kṛṣṇa conscious by association. The most unfortunate position is that there is no education about future life, or the perfection of life.
Prabhupāda: The business is sex. In this way our modern activities are animal activities but in a polished way. But that does not make any difference between the animal propensity and so-called civilized life. Civilized life is there when we understand what is God, our relationship with God. That is civilized life, but that is lacking. There is no such education. The education is only the same animal life in a polished way, that's all.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could it be said that in a society where stress is placed on developing this understanding of God, people would naturally become disinclined for these so-called modern activities of sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies.
Prabhupāda: And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.
Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, some might say...
Prabhupāda: Just like a... Without any knowledge if we infect some disease, it will manifest in due course of time, and you have to suffer. Similarly without any knowledge we are infecting the modes of material nature and according to that modes of material nature, you have to accept a type of body which may not be very comfortable. Of course there is no comfort when there is death. We don't want death, but there is compulsory death. There is no comfort at all. But still the short duration of life, if we have little comfort... But again if we have this comfortable life, then what is the benefit of this comfort? That material laws of nature, we do not know, neither any education about (this). This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is giving that education.
Prabhupāda: Paṇḍita means educated. So how one is educated? How it is tested? When a person takes all women except his wife as mother, then he is educated. When one thinks others' property as garbage in the street, then he is educated. And when one thinks that all living entities are of the same level, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, then he is educated. Not that for my convenience I say, "The animal has no soul, so send them to the slaughterhouse." He is not educated.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda said one of the standards of education is to see all living entities equally. So not that we say that an animal has no soul, therefore he can go to the slaughterhouse, but a man has soul, so he cannot. Because we see all living entities equally, so we do not send man to slaughterhouse, and we do not send animals to slaughterhouse. That is education.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, when this body will be finished, I shall enter another body, new body. That will be given to me by nature according to the mental condition at the time of my death. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). This is the law of nature. So people are not educated in the law of nature. They are educated in animalistic life. As the dog is thinking "I am dog," and barking, similarly, if a person thinks "I am Indian" or "I am American," so there's not much difference between the dog and the man. The man must think otherwise, that "I am not this body," then the civilization, human civilization, begins. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Unfortunately, there is no education. This education was little there. Even in India that is now becoming finished on account of this Western influence. So that is now practically finished. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement begins from the understanding that "I am not this body."
Prabhupāda: So this is education. The Western people are not educated in the spiritual life. So our predecessors, our gurus, they are for educating people in the spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He advised Indians to go, first of all, make his life..., Indian should make his life perfect, and then he should go outside India and preach the perfectional life, how to become perfect in life. That was His mission. He said pṛthivīte āche yata. You understand Bengali?
Interviewer: Yes.
Prabhupāda:
Prabhupāda: No, education is good, but the association is...
Kṣīrodakaśāyī: No, they don't have any asso... They don't go anywhere. They don't eat anywhere. Even so many invitations come, either they go to the library or they go to the temple or this place. They have no friends, nothing else. They don't even take the water anywhere, even to my brother's house. They don't take anywhere.
Prabhupāda: Your brother is also here?
Prabhupāda: We are foolishly thinking we are very independent, we can do whatever we like, but that is not the fact. The fact is we are completely dependent on the laws of material nature. Even if you defy a little bit, immediately you'll be punished. That is the strict laws of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). So we do not understand. There is no education throughout the whole world how we are being controlled by the material nature and why we are being controlled. Why we are put into this position of being controlled? These questions should be raised. That is human life. Otherwise it is animal life. The cats and dogs, they cannot inquire, "Why I am being controlled?" But they agree to be controlled. But human life there is struggle. They are called struggle for existence. They are trying to overcome the control of material nature by so-called scientific method, but that is not the way. You cannot do that.
Prabhupāda: Somehow or other get money, you become a big man. There is no question of culture or anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. The money will be the criterion—no family, culture, education. These things will not be taken into account. If you have got money, then you are big man. Never mind what you are. Therefore people are after money. Who is going to be brāhmaṇa? If you become a perfect brāhmaṇa, who will care for you? Nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa. "Why we shall become brāhmaṇa? Starve? For starvation?" Nowadays the colleges, they're not interested in art, philosophy, English literature. No, they.... Nobody.... They go for technical, how they will get more money. They do not want. Some of the doctor, professor, they came to request us to give our student. They are not getting student. And after few years they'll be all dismissed.
Prabhupāda: Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacārī gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch... In this way, they should be always engaged.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ. That is practical, we see. If you have got money, then people will come to you, "Oh, you are so learned, you are so qualified." Just like George, or John Lennon. What qualification they have got? But people will go there and take them as very highly learned and scholar and everything. The press reporters take their opinion. But what is their qualification? The qualification, by selling some records they have got money, that's all. What is that qualification? Now of course, they are coming to, George at least, coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, from qualification point of view, they are not learned, educated in university, nor they have got any spiritual assets, born brāhmaṇa family, nothing. Simply money. We also go and flatter them to get some money (laughs). So this is Kali-yuga. Vittam eva. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore people are after, so much after money. Vittam eva, hmm? Read that?
Prabhupāda: Otherwise suffering. Just like this lamb. It has got the Iranian body, but he's kept there for being killed. So what is the benefit of this Iranian body? But people are very much enthusiastic to remain nationalists, "I am Iranian, I am American, I am this, I am that." So, but he has worked in a different way, so he has got attachment for becoming American and Iranian, "All right you become." And according to work you have to become a lamb. And other Iranians eat you. That's all. This is designation. They do not understand, or they are not educated that what he will get by these designations. Big, big movement is going on on this designation platform. In our country, Mahatma Gandhi, he is supposed to be a great personality, but what is his teaching? He remained in designation, that's all. Feel like Indian and drive away the English. And one designation, you drive away another designation.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?
Prabhupāda: But I did not know. Mukunda suggested this is good place, all right, live here. And actually happened to be good place. Gradually, all my disciples came. So I had no disturbance. I was living in the Bowery Street, and on my door these bums were lying with urine and wine bottles and everything. Still, they were so respectful. When I'll come, "Yes, you can enter. Please." (laughter) I had no quarrel with them. They were very kind. They welcomed me, they opened the door, "Please go." They also knew that "He's a harmless..." So, platform, if you remain on the spiritual platform, this material condition cannot hamper you. Ahaituky apratihatā. Then yenātmā suprasīdati, in that condition you can execute. First of all, we have to ascertain on which platform we shall stand. And if you want to stand on the spiritual platform, nothing can check it. That is not conditioned. So why not stand directly to the spiritual platform and make you life successful? That is our preaching. People in general, they do not know the importance of the spiritual platform. Therefore they prefer to stay in the material platform. They have no sufficient education.
Prabhupāda: On account of no education. Therefore we are giving education. Because they are in gross ignorance, they require education. Therefore this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, educational.
Atreya Ṛṣi: In the beginning how does the spirit become ignorant, falls into ignorance?
Prabhupāda: He's not... Just like the same question, a criminal, if you say, "In the beginning, how he became criminal," is that very intelligent question? What do you think? A prisoner, criminal, is living in the prison house since a long time, and if you raise this question, "In the beginning, how he became a criminal," is that very intelligent question?
Prabhupāda: Fortune you create. Man is the architect of his own fortune. If you don't accept Kṛṣṇa's advice, then unfortunate. But my business is not difficult. We are simply going door to door and asking, "Sir, you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa." If he is inquisitive, "How can I become?" "You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." So where is my difficulty? Haven't got to pay you something. I simply carry the message of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya (BG 18.69). "He's My most beloved person, who does this." So why shall I give up this simple job and become recognized by Kṛṣṇa? It is very simple thing. That is the advice of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "All of you become guru and deliver these persons where you live." So how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no knowledge. No, no. You haven't got to-yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "You go and simply instruct him what Kṛṣṇa has said, you become guru."
Prabhupāda: No, therefore he has to accept spiritual master to guide him. Just like simply by reading books you do not become educated. You go to school and read before the teacher. Then you'll understand. You cannot become a medical man by purchasing books from the market and reading at home. You must go to the medical college. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Not only reading, but you go to the person who is actually realized. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Everything is there. You cannot understand individually. That is not possible. If you are extraordinarily intelligent, you can do that. That is exception. But ordinarily it is not possible. Therefore the spiritual master is there. He'll guide you. What is that?
Prabhupāda: (break) ...that to know God there is no necessity of education.
Indian man: No, he has got nothing. He cannot tell any children ask "What is this?" He will not be able to tell because he's not reading anything.
Prabhupāda: So you don't train, how they will learn?
Indian man: No, he himself is not trained, so he cannot give any answer to the children. So I told him, "At least you get their ISKCON books. You can read now before the children can read." So he immediately signed up. He immediately paid 2222 rupees by check and he agreed "I'll read Bhagavad-gītā and everything."
Prabhupāda: We don't require much money also. We require men first. Money will come. Money is coming. I started this business forty...
Prabhupāda: Indian response we have seen when we held meeting in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras, thousands and thousands of people come here to hear about Bhagavad-gītā. Inherently they are inclined, but there is no systematic education. That is the defect. Now the Janmāṣṭamī day is coming I think every Indian will observe Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī, without any fail. But they are not being educated systematically about Kṛṣṇa. They know Kṛṣṇa, they are inclined to Kṛṣṇa, the education of Kṛṣṇa is there, but nobody is interested to give them properly, systematically. That is the difficulty.
Prabhupāda: And this body is... Either dead or alive, Bhagavad-gītā condemns, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ (BG 2.11). So these rascals are interested with this body, and they're proud of their advancement of education. Bhagavad-gītā says nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. So they are passing as great scientists, philosophers, politicians, philanthropists, but all apaṇḍitāḥ. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. That means apaṇḍita. (Bengali) The first thing of Bhagavad-gītā lesson is that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādān (BG 2.11). "Talking like a learned man, but you are rascal." Apaṇḍitaḥ. One who is not educated, he's a rascal. So He's indirectly saying, "This kind of lamentation is not for the paṇḍita. It is for the rascal."
Prabhupāda: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization. Then prasannātmā. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja said sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety. They have created United Nations, but where is the United Nation? The people go there with anxiety, that's all. And come back again with anxiety. Because their asad-grahāt remains. The Indian is thinking, "I am Indian, this body." And the American is thinking, "I am American," and the Pakistani is thinking, "I am Pakistani." So asad-graha is there. So how the anxiety will go away? But they do not know this. There is no education. They want to keep him... "Feel always that you are Indian," "Feel always that you are American."
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). They're acting very independently. But ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Rascals, ahaṅkāra, vimūḍhātmā. They are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.
Indian man: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rāma, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I met you today. Of course, I have no, myself and my wife are life members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.
Prabhupāda: About birth control. So birth control means the father and mother, the father and mother should not become father and mother unless they take full responsibility for the children to save them from the repetition of birth and death. This is the śāstric injunction. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The, everyone is, in this material world, is going on in the cycle of birth and death. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Transmigrating from one body to another. And after many millions of years he gets the chance of becoming a human being. Now in this life he can stop the birth and death. Punar janma jāyate. That is Vedic culture. How to conquer over this process of repetition, birth and death. That is only possible in the human life. A chance is given, and if he misses this chance then again he'll be cycle... Therefore the father and mother's duty is to train up the children in such a way, that this is the last birth. No more birth. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). And that training, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But the things are different. Both the parents and the children, all of them are going again in the cycle of birth and death and wasting the opportunity of getting a human body. This is modern civilization. They do not know this science. They are kept in darkness. This is so-called education. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ paramaṁ mama (BG 7.25). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi... They do not know what is the destination of life. In darkness. There is no education practically.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miseries of life, real miseries of life that you are soul, eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. There is no birth, there is no death. So therefore the birth and death is real misery. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is knowledge. But they have no brain. It is clearly said that na jāyate na mriyate vā. But these rascals never think "Why I am getting birth? Why I am dying?" So rascal. It is clearly said na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Where is that education? They do not know what is miseries. And they are trying, struggling to get out of misery. But they have no knowledge what is the actual misery. And therefore Kṛṣṇa pointing out, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. Simply wasting time. They do not know what is the problem of life and how to solve it. They have no education. So which way? Which way?
Prabhupāda: ...with some Indian wife they were called Eurasian, and Englishman marrying Indian wife they were called Anglo-Indian. There was a big Anglo-Indian community and they were given good facilities by the Britishers for government jobs, railways. In railway, almost cent percent. The driver, the guard, the ticket inspector, all, means, semi-important jobs, they were all given to these Anglo-Indians. Because they were not very much educated. And officers, they were all Britishers. Officers, secretaries. And Indians were clerks. Indians, they were accepted as clerks only. No officers. In military, Indian Sikhs and Gurkha, especially Sikhs, they were very valiant. Still they are valiant. They were given the post of captain. Not general. General all Englishmen.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If they could understand that. That will be helpful if you chant. Therefore Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's statement will never be false. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then gradually the dirty things accumulated within the heart will be cleansed. And if he comes to the understanding, clear idea, that "I want to eat something and my necessities... So if I get my necessities, primary necessities of life, and satisfaction of mind, then why shall I go to city?" That they can have very easily. If they follow the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Your first necessity is food." So produce food here. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). And you'll find here so much land is lying vacant. Because they have gone to the city for twenty rupees daily to manufacture Goodyear tire. And who will work here? Now I have seen in Delhi, the government is advertising, "Go back to the village." Rascal, you are manufacturing wine and keeping them engaged whole day in the work. So after being tired, he requires some wine. And why he'll go? And no spiritual education, no cleanliness. Simply inviting "Go to the village" they will go?
Prabhupāda: So chant as much possible and eat prasādam. No education required, no philosophy required. But follow the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction and become guru.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
If they have got little brain, then kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa upadeśa, that's all. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very simple. The preacher does not require to be very highly educated. If he follows simply Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), then he's successful. No ostādi. That is not...
Lokanātha: No what?
Prabhupāda: Ostādi, ostādi.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That is their administration. And that was going on for the last two hundred years. So India lost. (break) ...educated persons they lost. And the mass of people, they were not educated. They have not lost, but they don't find any good example by the leaders.
Haṁsadūta: No encouragement.
Prabhupāda: "One has to take shelter of Me." That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. We are giving equal chance everyone. It doesn't matter what he is. Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Pāpa-yoni means low class, poor, uneducated, ugly, no education. That is pāpa-yoni. So they can be raised. Kṛṣṇa says. How? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya. If he is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore it is the topmost welfare activities in the human society. Anyone can be raised. There are different grades of life all over the world. Some are black, some are white, some are ugly, some are poor. Varieties. Some are trees, some are plants, some are aquatics, some are birds, beasts, insects. Different varieties of life, 8,400,000. Some of them demigods, Brahmā, Indra, Candra. Very, very powerful. Just like this sun, that is also a planet, and the chief person is the sun-god Vivasvān. We get all this information. There is.
Prabhupāda: That is special advantage of this age. People are very much fallen from spiritual standard, and to fall down from the spiritual standard means to spoil the humanity. There is no education on this point. That is Vedic culture. Most of them, they do not believe that there is soul, spirit soul, and human life is meant for understanding it and make progress on that platform. Most of them, they do not know. There is no education, I think so. Everyone reads Bhagavad-gītā, mostly, but they do not understand the first lesson. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Nobody understands. What is your understanding about this transmigration of the soul?
Prabhupāda: When the animal enjoy sex, they know which part of the body has to be used.
Hari-śauri: They don't have to be taught.
Prabhupāda: There is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.
Hari-śauri: They have so many books now on so-called sex education, so many of them.
Prabhupāda: Simply wasting time. There is a story about this. One man was canvassing, hawking. Hawker?
Prabhupāda: If the father takes care, that's all right. Otherwise he can go to Hyderabad. Hyderabad should be for gṛhasthas, for plowing, for growing, and flowers, like that. No education required.
Bhagatji: He is not interested in education, not at all.
Prabhupāda: No, no education... That is waste of... For such boys who are not interested, why they should be enforced, education? They are not meant for that. Education is for higher brain, sober brain. And not that everyone has to become literate. It is not required. He can do other work. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are supposed to be very learned but actually they're fools, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. These so-called educated, they are bereft of knowledge. They have no common sense. That I was asking this debauch, as God. That also ignorance. He does not know what is God.
Mr. Saxena: Yes, because education is no education now.
Prabhupāda: He does not know. We have got the definition of God,
- aiśvaryasya samāgrasya
- vīryasya yaśasaḥ śriyaḥ
- jñāna-vairāgyayoś caiva
- ṣaṇṇaṁ bhāga itiṅgaṇa
- (Viṣṇu Purāṇa 6.5.47)
Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya, that one who is in possession of all the wealth, vīryasya all strength, all faith yaśasaḥ, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation, that is God. Now so far Kṛṣṇa is concerned, He showed all these things. Aiśvaryasya... For example Kṛṣṇa married sixteen thousand wives and for each wife a different palace. And for each wife ten sons.
Prabhupāda: Te hitam. So it is not for all. One who is in confidence of Kṛṣṇa, a pure devotee, for him, not for the ordinary man. Ordinary man—"You do your prescribed duty." But they have no prescribed duty even. The people of this age, they are so fallen, they have no prescribed duty. They are simply engaged like animals-eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. That's all. Animal is engaged like that, eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. So we are being educated only like animals. We do not know the value of life, how nature is working, how we are changing our body. No education all over the world. Simply making plans how to eat, how to sleep, how to enjoy senses, how to defend, that's all. This is animal life. This is not prescribed duty. Prescribed duty is above this. From animal, one has to become brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, utmost, śūdra, like that.
Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). We test him. We test like this, that Kṛṣṇa says this, that anyone who does not surrender to Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, he is under the four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. That's it. We are fools and rascals, we have no such education. But we take Kṛṣṇa's word that "Here is a fool, here is a sinful man, here is a narādhamāḥ, here is māyayāpahṛta." So unless you stick to this point, that we shall preach Bhagavad-gītā (indistinct) then there is no meaning of it. You are misled, you will mislead others. But if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, as Kṛṣṇa said, then... If you are not prepared to do that, then however (indistinct) interpretation, thousands of literatures, the result is (indistinct). This is practical.
Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.
Guest (1): That's why all this trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They manufacture some idea.
Dr. Patel: ...makes the way Western civilized people kill, we simply shudder at the very idea. Others, they're not able to, I mean, bear the sight of meat.
Prabhupāda: Our men, those who are not educated, they are better than the... That people may call superstition, but if they are going by the old superstition they would have... I have seen in, sometimes in 1945 or '46, in a train one village girl was sitting and covering. She's young girl, going to her husband's house. What is that? Kane.
Dr. Patel: Gomath, gangath.(?)
Prabhupāda: Sa eva ayam yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. "Therefore I am saying you again, the old yoga system. It is not that because the time has changed, I am changing." Somebody says, "Now it was spoken some millions of years ago, now it is modern ways, I am explaining in the modern way." That is not the system. The system is I am speaking the same yoga system. Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. And they are modernizing, making compromise. That is naṣṭa. That is the defect. Therefore we did not get any benefit. And in the modern countries, before me, so many yogis, swamis have been there for the last two hundred years. Not a single person became a Hindu. Now they are calling (them) "American Hindus." Why? Because it was lost. Rotten thing was given. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. If you supply something to me which is rotten and decomposed, such foodstuff, what shall I get benefit? Now they are getting benefit. Our mission is to put Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission that He said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Everyone of you become a guru and deliver these persons, these fallen conditioned souls. That is your business. Now you can say, or I can say that how can I become guru? I have no education, I have no talent.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Dr. Patel: This co-education is no education at all. Education, that was really imparted by (indistinct) and ...
Prabhupāda: Education... This is craftsmanship.
Dr. Patel: I had an appointment to speak on education in the university of Bombay as a member of the Senate. And all the members of the Senate simply said, "Well, we could not help it because it has been so planned by the government." That is not ... This is not education that we're giving them. We are just giving them instruction how to read and write. The real education is the education of the mind by which you can discriminate what is right from the wrong and follow the right. That is what for the education.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how people become interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other motive. No economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat, and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They are foolish rascal. There is no education for them.
Prabhupāda: Pandiya means paṇḍita. Brāhmaṇa. (Hindi) Illiterate.
Indian man: Actually if a man is literate but if there is no saṁskāra, I can't say he is better than... If saṁskāra is there and no education, then still I call he is better man. The man without saṁskāra is nothing.
Prabhupāda: It is..., that brahmacārī means saṁskāra, to become satyaṁ śamo damas titikṣā ārjavaṁ jñāna... Jñāna... You can have knowledge simply by hearing, not by reading books.
Prabhupāda: Refusal or not, (?) people do not teach also, that "Here is Kṛṣṇa, the Almighty, the Supreme. You surrender here." And the Almighty is canvassing, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī mām. But they'll not do that. And neither their so-called leaders will teach them to do that. So this is going on. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You become a guru." Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). "You become a guru and deliver them." So "I am a fool. I have no education. How can I become a guru?" So answer is "No, no. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128)." If you simply advise people what Kṛṣṇa has said, then you become guru. But if you manufacture your ideas, then you are not a guru.
Prabhupāda: Sudurlabham. Sudurlabha: it is not very easily obtainable. Labdhvā manuṣyam. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1), durlabhaṁ manuṣya... Prahlāda Mahārāja says. Somewhere sudurlabham, somewhere durlabham. Durlabhaṁ manuṣyam. There is no education about the importance of manuṣya janma. They have taken it that we shall die once. Who says that once born, once we get the..., this and then finished? "Once life got." Some...?
Hari-śauri: Sometimes there's an advertisement in the papers, "You only live once, so buy this." They were selling... It was a land advertisement.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they invent their theories. Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara prāptir, and these rascals says "Once." Just see.
Prabhupāda: No. Because they have not studied Kṛṣṇa, they misunderstand in that way. You are fond of woman. Kṛṣṇa comes to show you that in the Vaikuṇṭha, Goloka Vṛndāvana, there is woman, but not in this way. Originally there is. That is pure. So it requires education. You are not educated; you cannot talk. Now sex..., even in our material experience we find that by sex many great men has been found. So how you can accuse sex? You are talking. We should say, "You are a product of sex. So how do you say that sex is bad?"
Prabhupāda: No education, no. Education will be required only for the guiding class: brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, not for anyone, śūdras. They are two only. Others will... What education required? Suppose if you produce... If you..., you are accustomed to agriculture, cow protection, there is no need going to college and schools. If you remain illiterate, still you can do.
Rāmeśvara: But in America...
Prabhupāda: Ah. So much land sitting. Huge land is lying vacant, and they are complaining, "Orissa is poor. Please..." Why poor? Why don't you work? You must remain poor. You do not produce your food. Kuyoginaṁ kuśam upaiti lakṣmiṇī.(?) If you work hard, Lakṣmī will come. Our institution is working so hard, all our devotees. Therefore we have no scarcity. We are not bābājīs, taking a mala and smoking bidi. "I do not go beyond Vṛndāvana." Rascal, loitering and associating with so many women, and they have become puffed-up, paramahaṁsas, Rūpa Gosvāmī, imitation Rūpa Gosvāmī. Only a loincloth of Rūpa Gosvāmī. No education, no book writing, no going out of Vṛndāvana, begging. And therefore government's capturing them and giving this injection. What is that? Sterilization. Yes, just see. So many illegal children are born by these women. Bhajana. Bhajana kara. One bābājī has at least three women, four women. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Qualified, that is not very difficult. For the girl, find out a boy who is hard worker or a little educated. Bas. That's all. That was the selection. Then fortune. You give a daughter under the care of the boy who can work hard. That's all. They then will earn their livelihood. Even there is no education, a hard worker will do. A boy, as soon as has got the sense that "I have got a wife to maintain," he'll work. That is impetus to give him to work for the family. And if a boy gets wife or woman without any hard working, they why he should marry? And if he has got responsibility that "I have to maintain my wife; then I can enjoy," then he becomes responsible. Wooden bridge?
Prabhupāda: Fifty-seven years after. (laughs) So the body has not changed? Where is that body? Now I am with stick. (laughter) Then I was jumping. Is not that? I am there. I remember. The body has changed. What is the difficulty to understand? I am the same person. How I am remembering all these things. But I have no... That body is now lost. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Why this simple philosophy these rascals cannot understand? I remember I am not the second man. I am the same person but I haven't got the same body. The whole world this simple philosophy cannot understand. Where is the difficulty? I cannot understand.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara prāptir
- dhīra...
- (BG 2.13)
because they are not dhīra. Dhīra means sober. They're rascals. They cannot understand. But dhīras tatra na muhyati. Those who are sober, they can understand immediately. So there is no education to make people sober and intelligent. All rascals, fools, rogues, thieves, that's all. Animals.
Prabhupāda: Godless means mūḍha, rascal, duṣkṛtina. They will attempt so many things, simply waste their time and energy. Duṣkṛtina. Because they are rascals. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). And a human being should have intelligence, but they are lower, lowest status of the human being. Mūḍha, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ narādhamāḥ. "No, the university education..." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ. Everything is analytically spoken. Why all these things? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because godless, no intelligence. Anyone who is godless, he has no intelligence. This is the conclusion. They are intelligent amongst the similar rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's intelligentsia among the dogs, among the camels, among the hogs, and the asses. They will praise them, "Oh, you are so intelligent. You are so educated." Not human being.
Prabhupāda: But they are the topmost devotees. These (chuckling) uneducated, without any town life, cow-men, they are Kṛṣṇa's best friend. Unsophisticated, no education, but love intense—that is perfect. That attracted Kṛṣṇa more. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya na padam ekaṁ (sic:) na kartavya... Kṛṣṇa is so much attached to Vṛndāvana that He goes nowhere... What is that? They are not educated girls, up-to-date fashion, (indistinct) or nothing. Crude. As soon as there was blowing of the flute, immediately they began to run towards Kṛṣṇa. Somebody is taking care of children, somebody is engaged in boiling milk, and somebody was even lying down with her husband.
Prabhupāda: What educated? Educated means hippies. That's all. This is their education. They do not know what is meant by education. Education... University student was informed that "Next birth you may become a dog," so he said, "What is the wrong there?" This is education. Is that education, that he agrees to become a dog very happily? There is no education. Simply waste of time.
Satsvarūpa: But at least if there is extreme exploitation by a king or dictator it can't be changed. But the people...
Prabhupāda: There cannot be exploitation if things are made in order. Just like kṣatriya should be trained up as kṣatriya. Then he is king. Not that a bhangi by vote becomes a king. This is education.
Prabhupāda: Either educate them or control them. Give them facility of education. But there is no education at all. Even for the whites there is no education. So we are stressing on the point of education. You educate certain section as brāhmaṇa, certain section as kṣatriya, certain section as vaiśya. In that education we don't discriminate because he's coming of a śūdra family. Take education. Be qualified. Then you talk. Not by votes.
Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition."
Prabhupāda: No, no. Jagannātha cannot correct. That bad habit he must give up.
Rādhā-vallabha: So we should just leave it exactly.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You should not be more educated.
Rādhā-vallabha: He wasn't changing any of the words. He was just...
Prabhupāda: Nothing of the... This of should be strictly forbidden.
Rādhā-vallabha: So no corrections. That makes it simple.
Prabhupāda: They can divide the synonyms. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Five thousand. Is that education? Better not to be educated. Those who are not educated, they purchase ten rupees' worth of potato and sit down anywhere and half... (laughter) Five rupees. Yes.
Guest (1): All vegetable are...
Prabhupāda: You take some dāl. Go to house to house, dāl. They have no scarcity. And after spending so much money, living at the cost of fathers, mothers—unemployed. No job. No food. Then plan something, Naxalite, this party, that party. Join some political movement and help Indira Gandhi. They are paid to make propaganda. They are paid. And they earn money by smuggling.
Guest (1): But that all has vanished now. That plan has failed now completely.
Prabhupāda: So who is caring for the... Because there is no maintenance, there is no education, so how the brāhmaṇas are being maintained?
Dr. Sharma: These, the Rajasthani brāhmaṇas were not that, you know, strong brāhmaṇas as you see in south. In the south the brāhmaṇas are very Vaiṣṇavas, very staunch, and they were veda-paṭhīs. They had the whole aural...
Prabhupāda: No. Veda... Because the brāhmaṇas, they should be veda-paṭhī, at the same time, the public also must know the importance of Vedas. So if you prepare the public that it is useless, then how these brāhmaṇas can be maintained?
Prabhupāda: ...community. If the one community said, "Within our religion, there is no need of education..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of education?
Prabhupāda: So will the state allow that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they shouldn't, because then it is not religion. Genuine...
Prabhupāda: No, no, it is religion or no religion. Suppose there is university, and if some religious sect says that "In our religion we shall not take university education."
Prabhupāda: They have not been educated. Therefore, actually speaking, there is no real knowledge outside India. Mūḍha.
Dr. Sharma: Even the smallpox vaccination that was discovered by Edgar Jenner in 1796, it was really from the cow pox serum they discovered. The first vaccination he used on his own son. (indistinct) People who were living with the cows, they were not affected by smallpox, though the people did not have a cow in the house, they were affected the most. So it protects from cow pox, small pox.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Cow protection protects us from so many infectious disease.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Suppose you are living in that village. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "You become a guru here." Here. You haven't got to go out. Ei deśa, "where you are living." Just see how nice it is. Āmāra ājñāya: "By My order, you become a guru and deliver the people of this place." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... So "I am not educated, I do not know. How I shall become?" No, you haven't got to bother. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "Simply you repeat what Kṛṣṇa has said. You become guru." That's all. Everyone can do that.
Prabhupāda: So he gets engagement. Then, by seeing, seeing, he becomes little important. And the proprietor gives him some hand expense. And then, one day, he becomes very expert. He starts his own business. That was the system. Why he should go and waste time for education? A boy is given to a carpenter. He learns very easily. A weaver, he learns very easily. A shopkeeper, grocer, he learns very easily. That is education. Why he should waste time for academic education and create unemployment? So long he's not educated, he has got enough employment. Still they take in the morning, say, half a mound of ḍāl and goes home to home: (Hindi) So by saying, after mound of ḍāl, he makes up these two, three rupees' profit. That's all. Where is unemployment?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. This is very easy. So I am not a scholar. I am simply... Whatever is said there, I am trying to distribute in a palatable way. That's all. It is not my manufacture. And that is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). You all become guru. "How can I become guru? I have no education. I have no knowledge." No, you haven't got to acquire all these things. That is already... Yāre dekha tāre kaha. Finished. So I never tried to become a scholar. But I tried, whatever is spoken by Kṛṣṇa, deliver. That's all. And that is guru. If some...
Prabhupāda: You can say, but who made you representative? You can say all nonsense. That is your business. (break)... who will give something standard, they'll be established. That standard is in this varṇāśrama. Here is the standard, that leg must be there, the hand must be there, the head must be there, the belly must be... One who has got the qualities to work like hand, he must work as hand. That is natural. These rascals have no education actually. Therefore I always say, "rascals." They manufacture. They are imperfect, and they manufacture. (break) "Probably," "maybe," like that. No standard logic. So, (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. (break) ...bad education. They have learned to... No education. (aside:) Get this down here. I am seriously thinking how to do. Organized, a society for sinful activities, Western. Now you are advanced, sincerely carry on. At least in America.
Gurukṛpā: This restaurant is very good propaganda. They get a higher taste. I've seen on the airplane when I went last time. I had some cookies from the restaurant, so I gave them to the pilot, the stewardess, and said to give them to everyone. And they came and said, "Oh, we have been to your restaurant. We appreciate very much. It is very nice."
Prabhupāda: No. Ours is spiritual education, no medical education.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That's the point.
Prabhupāda: Preliminary health principles, they can le...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's already going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sharma is teaching Ayurvedic, basic Ayurvedic.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, anyway, that's... So I'll explain to him that what we want... I already wrote him a letter inviting him to... He can have two rooms, one for his living and one for his dispensary, and treat the inmates here. I'll again repeat that. (break)
| Page Title: | No education (Conversations 1975 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 14 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=142, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 142 |