Prabhupāda: Spiritual life means gradually forget sex life. Material life means sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex life because there is no birth, there is no death. That is stated in Bhāgavata. Although the women are very, very beautiful, many thousand times more beautiful than here... Their stature of body, their everything, youthfulness, everything. But still they are so much engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in chanting the glories, that they are not, I mean to say, influenced by the lust. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, in the Vaikuṇṭha. There are women. They also, men and women there is, and they also go by airplane, fly in the sky for trip, and all of them are devotees to Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa associate. So these things are described. So similarly, amongst the gopīs also. So in the spiritual life there is nothing like this sex pleasure.
No birth (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Why? First thing is even they are successful, according to our principle, it is simply waste of time. Because we are not concerned even with the moon planet. We are trying to go to the planet of Kṛṣṇa from where nobody returns back to this wretched condition of life. So the wretched condition of life is as good in moon planet as it is in this earth planet. And do you know what is the wretched condition of life? Yes. The birth, death, old age and disease. This is the wretched condition of life. So you cannot avoid this wretched condition of life in the moon planet also. There is birth, death, old age and disease. But where we are trying to go by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no birth, death, old age and disease. So even there are, people are successful to go to the moon planet, what connection we have got there? We are not at all concerned with any planet where there is birth, death and old age and disease. Even in the highest planet of this universe.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to learn what is the birth of Kṛṣṇa. You do not know. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). You do not know what is the birth. You are thinking that He is, like ordinary man He has taken birth. Otherwise why does He say, janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ? Nobody knows what is His birth? He thinks He's... Just like a child sees daily that the sun rises from the eastern side—therefore eastern side is the father of sun. Is eastern side father of the sun? Sun is always there, but you see in the morning it is appearing from the eastern side. That's all. It is your angle of vision, not that sun is born, taking birth from the eastern side. Sun is always there in the sky. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is always there but to the foolish person it appears that He is born. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā. Ajo 'pi: "I have no birth." Ajaḥ. This very word is used. Ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san. So how you can compare Kṛṣṇa's birth like ordinary birth? If anyone knows what is Kṛṣṇa's birth he becomes liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo jānāti tattvataḥ.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, there is no evolution because there is no birth.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, in the material world.
Prabhupāda: Material world, there is evolution because there is birth. But in the spiritual world there is no birth. Birth, death, old age, disease, these things are not there. There is no question of evolution. Evolution means to transmigrate from one body to another. But there is no such thing. Everyone is eternal. There is no death, there is no transmigration. This is botheration. Therefore spiritual world means all the varieties of the material world, less botheration, minus botheration.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the Vaikuṇṭha planets...
Prabhupāda: Therefore it's said, jīvan-mukta. Although he is within this body, still he is mukta. Just like... Example is you take a rod, put into the fire, by association of fire, it becomes red hot. At that time, it is fire, not rod. Similarly, if one is fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no other business than to glorify Kṛṣṇa, he's already in the Vaikuṇṭha. Why should he...? Therefore Kṛṣṇa-bhakta doesn't require any mukti. Muktiḥ svayaṁ mukulitāñjali sevate 'smān. Mukti's serving him. (break) ...Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mama janmani janmani. Birth after birth. But when you go back to home, back to Godhead, there is no birth. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). You don't return. But here Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Birth after birth." So he's already mukta, he's already in the Vaikuṇṭha. Is that clear? Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa-bhakta is niṣkāma. He has no any desire. Because he's already fulfilled with all desires. He's, he's in the service of the Lord.
Prabhupāda: This is our movement. So our guru gives us this opportunity, no more death. Tyaktvā... After leaving this body, you don't accept any more material body. And if you don't accept material body, then there is no death. As soon as your spiritual, you remain in spiritual body, there is no death. There is no birth also. Death is concomitant where birth is there. If the death is stopped, then there is no birth. And if there is no birth, there is no disease, there is no old age. This is the process. So birth, death, old age, disease can be stopped only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if you don't like to be Kṛṣṇa conscious then what is the use of becoming your disciple, and if the guru, if he cannot stop your death, birth and death, then what is your becoming guru? So 'mṛtatvāya kalpate. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete puruṣaṁ puruṣarṣabha. Find out this verse. Yaṁ hi na vyathayanty ete.
Śrutakīrti: Y-a-m?
Prabhupāda: Yeah, y-a-m. Yaṁ hi... Get this light on. (break) ...there is birth and death and old age and... That is liberation. That is siddhi. That is perfection. These rascals are making plans, material plans. Jawaharlal Nehru made plan of this New Delhi. But he is kicked out. "Go out!" And now he has become a dog in Switzerland.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But they have no birth control.
Guest (1): No, no, just see. And then you see the population of these, for instance, chickens, pigs, and those, they have increased. So the population of human being that is increasing, is it due to these wild animals and other they have done good deeds, so they are coming up as a human being?
Prabhupāda: First thing is, I am asking you, why you are bothering about the increase of population? First, that is my question. The animals, they do not bother. You are so advanced in knowledge. Why you are bothering? First of all answer this question.
Guest (1): No, no, but that is...
Prabhupāda: The animals, they have got less intelligence. They never bother themselves, "The population is increasing." And you are advanced animal. Why you are so much bothered?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Yo mām ajam. Ajam. "Because Kṛṣṇa appears as born of Vasudeva and Devaki..." That is mūrkha. He appears. He appears, ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, sambhavāmi. That is His extraordinary power, how He ap... But when one understands that He is aja, there is no birth of Kṛṣṇa... Aja, and?
Dr. Patel: Maheśvaram.
Prabhupāda: Maheśvaram, mahā īśvaram. There are īśvaras, but parameśvara or mahā-īśvara, that is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Purport?
Satsvarūpa: "Purport: Birth, death, old age and diseases affect this material body, but not the spiritual body. There is no birth, death, old age and disease for the spiritual body, so one who attains a spiritual body, becomes one of the associates of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and engages in eternal devotional service, is really liberated. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi: I am spirit. It is said that one should understand that he is Brahman—spirit soul. This Brahman conception of life is also in devotional service, as described in this verse. The pure devotees are transcendentally situated on the Brahman platform, and they know everything about transcendental and material activities."
Reverend Powell: "Transcendental" means spiritual, does it?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. In the past there was winter season. In the present there is winter season. Therefore I can say next January will be winter season. That is nice. But if it is not happened in the past or present, how you can say? That proposition is not accepted. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease, in the present there is birth, death, old age, and disease, and in the future there will be birth, death, and old age and disease. This conclusion is all right. In the past there was birth, death, old age, and disease. At the present there is birth, death, and old age, disease. How you can say in the future there will be no birth, no death, no old age...? That proposal is not very sound. You can say whimsically; that is another thing. But factually it is not possible.
Indian man: Guruji, according to the bhakti-yoga, a person starting at least in the elementary way of bhakti-yoga...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter. But if he wants to be elevated, he should be given chance. That is the verdict of all śāstras. Now we are feeling, India, this difficulty. Because they are Europeans, Americans, the so-called big societies, they are not agreeable to accept them. You see? Although śāstra does not say so. Śāstra says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "If one takes shelter of Me, even he is born in pāpa-yoni"... Striyaḥ vaiśyās tathā..., te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, "they can also be elevated to the highest exalted position." And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is, many places it is said that a low-born person can be elevated. Caṇḍalo 'pi dvija śreṣṭho hari-bhakti-parāyaṇaḥ.
Governor: We have right example of Vālmīki.
Prabhupāda: No, the same sound. Sound is the same; when you are impure, this is material. Just like the tongue is the same, but when you are suffering from jaundice, you are tasting sugar as bitter, and when you will be cured, then the same tongue will taste it is sweet. So it depends on the purification of the body. Whole this bhakti-yoga or any yoga, the whole system is purification. Tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattvam (SB 5.5.1). Our existence is now impure. Therefore we have to accept birth, death, old age, and disease. And when it is purified, without any contamination, then there is no birth, death, old age. In diseased condition you cannot relish. Even if you are given actually rasagullā you will not taste it very nice. If there is no appetite, even it is rasagullā, it is useless. Spiritual life means curing the contamination of material disease. That is spiritual life. And when you are purified, you relish the spiritual taste.
Prabhupāda: Well, dried up, but they must agree to follow. Otherwise, it is dead. (break) ...kārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Saṁskāra, reformation, that makes a twice-born. (break) ...na jāyate śūdraḥ saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, vedo-pathad bhaved vipro brahmā jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. Everyone is born śūdra, and by undergoing the reformation process, he becomes twice-born. The father is the spiritual master, and the mother is Vedic knowledge. First birth is ordinary father and mother. That even cats and dogs gets. Everyone gets father and mother. Without father and mother, there is no question of birth. That janma is śūdra janma. Then, when he gets second birth by the spiritual father, then he becomes a dvija, twice-born. Again birth. Then he is allowed to study the Vedic literatures. Vedo-pathad bhaved vipraḥ. And when, by studying, he understand the Brahman, then he becomes brāhmaṇa. This is the process.
Prabhupāda: That is not possible. Because here there are four principles of miserable condition, which we cannot avoid. They are birth, death, old age and disease. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. Therefore in this life, in the human form of life, where we come after evolutionary process, 8,400,000 species of life, our consciousness being developed, we should decide now whether we shall remain within this material world or we shall go to the spiritual world where the life is eternal. There is no birth, death, old age and disease. So the Vedic civilization trains all human being how to go back to home, back to Godhead. That is Vedic civilization. We cannot be happy in this temporary material life. We are working very hard, but if we work a little only, not very hard, there is no need of working very hard. We have created a civilization that we have to work very hard. The Vedic civilization does not recommend that for sense gratification, you shall simply work very hard, day and night. This is not very good life. You should know what is the value of life, what is the aim of life. God has provided everything for our living condition. We should be satisfied, whatever is alloted by God, and save time for being promoted to the spiritual world. That is the arrangement already there by nature.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all let us know what they have done. What science they have done. They are proposing all nonsense theories, that nature is producing. So even if you accept nature as supreme, then you are subordinate. You are not independent. You are under... That also I explained. Pṛakrteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ, ahaṅkāra vimu... (BG 3.27). Why you are thinking independent? You are being carried away by the ear, pulling, "Come here." You are thinking there is no birth, but there is birth. Every moment you are having a new life, new birth by the... You can say, "I will not become old man," but prakṛti will not allow you. You must become old man. You can say, "I will not die." You must die. So you are so dependent. Even if you accept only prakṛti, no father, you are a fatherless child, that's all right, but even the mother... You have to accept the authority of the mother. Where is your independence? You are thinking foolishly.
Prabhupāda: Brāhmaṇa's qualification is there—śama, dama, titikṣa, ārjavam and jñānam, vijñānam, āstikyam, brahma-karma... (BG 18.42). Everything is there, the symptoms. So you are doing business, the occupation of the vaiśyas or śūdras, and how you are claiming to become brāhmaṇa? The... Who is a brāhmaṇa, that symptoms is there in the śāstra. And not only the symptoms, Nārada Muni has said, "If these symptoms are found elsewhere, then he should be accepted according to the symptom." There is no question of birth. Yasya hi yaḻ lakṣanām proktaṁ varṇābhivyanjakaṁ yady anyātrāpi dṛṣyeta tat tenaiva viniriset. This is Nārada's vision. So it is the symptom. Just like a doctor, medical man. He diagnoses according to the symptom. He finds out the cause. So symptom is required, not that a man has become diseased or healthy by birth. No. By birth he is born. Then again, when he develops certain types of symptom, so one has to take him in that way. That is śāstra.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then... That is the distinction between you and the stone. Otherwise you would have remained as stone. Because you are moving, therefore He has given you the independence.
Guru-kṛpā: There is also a question in that same line. They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Kṛṣṇa in such conditions? This is a very...
Acyutānanda: The original sin.
Sudāmā: Why we are envious,
Guru-kṛpā: How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements...
Prabhupāda: No, no, Vedic literature, apart from. Your argument, that without father, how it is without father? Without father, there is no question of birth; without mother, there is no question of birth. Our point is that without father there is no creation.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, when a living entity is in an animal body, and when he quits his body, there's no karma, he's just automatically promoted to a higher body?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: So then...
Prabhupāda: Animal life means there is no sin. It is promotion. Because they are animal, their consciousness is not developed. Just like a child—a child, if he steals, that is not sin. He will not be criminally charged. He is child. A dog goes left to the right or right to the.... He is not criminal. But if you do, you are criminal.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just bring little salt.
Hṛdayānanda: "...or kūṭa-stha. The body is subject to six kinds of transformations. It takes its birth in the womb of the mother's body, remains for some time, grows, produces some effects, gradually dwindles, and at last vanishes into oblivion. The soul, however, does not go through such changes. The soul is not born, but, because he takes on a material body, the body takes its birth. The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die. Anything which has birth also has death. And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing and primeval—that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being. Under the impression of the body, we seek the history of birth, etc., of the soul. The soul does not at any time become old, as the body does. The so-called old man therefore feels himself to be in the same spirit as in his childhood or youth.
Prabhupāda: Yes, find out. This is knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means one must be able to see that what are the actual problems. Just like the scientists, the philosophers, they're trying to solve so many problems. But first of all, fix up what is the problem. Temporary problem, to make a solution, that is going on. But actual problem is this: na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The soul is not destroyed, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit, at any time. One should be very prudent to see that "If I have no birth and no death, then what is this nonsense, birth and death?" That is knowledge. Why I am dying? Why there is birth problem? Why there is death problem? And as soon as there is birth problem, there is disease problem, there is old age problem. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says.... What is the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi?
Prabhupāda: If you want to transfer yourself to other planetary system, you can go. You can go to the higher planetary system, which is resided by the demigods, devas, yānti deva-vratā devān; and you can go to other planets, Pitṛloka; or you can remain here as you like; and you can go to the planet where God is there. Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. So this human life, you can make your selection. After all, you have to change your body, that is compulsory. Nobody can remain here with this body, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). And we have to change our body. So we can make our selection, where we shall go next, either in the higher planetary system or the Pitṛloka or we shall remain here or we can go even back to home, back to Godhead. So we must prepare ourselves for that purpose. Then next life we can go wherever we like. But anywhere within this material world, there are four principles, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. There is birth, there is death, there is old age and disease. But if you go to the spiritual kingdom, there is no more such things, no birth, no death, no disease, no old age. Now we can make our selection. And if we do not make our selection, if we live like cats and dogs, without any responsibility, then again we become in the category of cats and dogs. Mūḍha, janmani janmani (BG 16.20), life after life, they remain like animals, without any knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is intelligence. And if you do not do it, then you come to that karma, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). God offers, but the rascal, duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, will not do it. They'll suffer. Go on, continue to suffer. He'll not do it, all right, go on, suffer. Next life if he becomes dog, the ear is there, but he'll not be able to hear what Kṛṣṇa says: finished. That chance is finished. This is going on. The dog has ear, big ear, bigger than me. But he cannot hear what is Kṛṣṇa saying. That is not possible. But this life I've got this ear, I can hear. If I don't take chance, then how much foolish I am. Next life, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), I'll get next life, next birth. Now it is not necessarily that I'll get the next life also same ear. No. The ear may be different. The eyes may be different. The eyes are there, ears are there, nose is, but it is different. So long we have got these eyes, these ears, this nose, utilize it properly. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya, kṛṣṇa guru nāhi mile bhaja...(?) Every birth you'll get a father, mother. Because without father, mother, there is no question of birth. But not in every birth you'll get Kṛṣṇa and guru. That is in this birth. Birth you can have.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Miseries of life, real miseries of life that you are soul, eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. There is no birth, there is no death. So therefore the birth and death is real misery. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is knowledge. But they have no brain. It is clearly said that na jāyate na mriyate vā. But these rascals never think "Why I am getting birth? Why I am dying?" So rascal. It is clearly said na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Where is that education? They do not know what is miseries. And they are trying, struggling to get out of misery. But they have no knowledge what is the actual misery. And therefore Kṛṣṇa pointing out, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. This is knowledge. Simply wasting time. They do not know what is the problem of life and how to solve it. They have no education. So which way? Which way?
Mahāṁsa: Either we can go a little longer and come back, or we can go this way.
Harikeśa: The car is here if you want to go.
Prabhupāda: Separate. And that is a fact.
Devotee: Mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7).
Prabhupāda: There are so many things. But here it is said nitya-yuktā upāsate. Even they come to the platform of nitya, where there is no birth and death. That is nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Even that platform, Bhagavān remains different than the devotee who worships.
Indian man (2): Eternally?
Prabhupāda: Eternally. That is nitya-yuktā upāsate. There is no oneness. Otherwise why it is nitya-yuktā upāsate? Nityo nityānām. The nityānām, plural number, and nitya, Bhagavān. So nitya-yuktā upāsate.
Indian man: If you take the kevala-bhaktas, if you take the life of a bhakta...
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?
Prabhupāda: Temporary but it is miserable also. But you are eternal. Why you should be satisfied with temporary happiness? If you be satisfied, be satisfied. That is your business. But that is not real happiness. Why you should take repeated birth and death? If there is another life where there is no birth and death, why should you not take that? You are eternal. But because you are a fool, you think that "If I get ten thousand years of life and very comfortable life, that is happiness." That is mistake. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). That is also said. Why don't you refer to that...? "Such persons have lost that intelligence."
Satsvarūpa: I've heard that Ramakrishna said that even if by mistake one worships the wrong Deity, God won't hold that mistake against him. Even though he's worshiping a demigod and he thinks that's God, so that's a mistake, but God is not so...
Prabhupāda: You recite that verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). The instruction of King Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body..." Ayaṁ dehaḥ. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "After this body is finished, another body...," because ātmā, na jāyate na mriyate vā, nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Ātmā is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; śāśvataḥ purāṇaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Therefore this is the problem. The ātmā has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19).
Prabhupāda: Fifty, sixty... Average India, thirty-five years. In your country a little more. Nobody lives hundred years. That is also another bluff. But even if you live for hundred years, does it mean that you have stopped death? Then what is the benefit? You are eternal. Na jāyate na mriyate vā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). You are eternal, but why you are dying? What the scientists have done? Na jāyate na mriyate. Eternal means one who has no birth, no death. But you have birth and death, so where is your scientists' help?
Upendra: The reason the original faith was placed in the scientists was because radio, airplanes, tape recorders have been manufactured, and people are impressed by these originally.
Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit? Without radio, people were dying, or with radio they are not living?
Upendra: They say they are living more comfortably.
| Page Title: | No birth (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 08 of Jul, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=28, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 28 |