Prabhupāda: After destruction of this body the living entity is not destroyed. He is there. That we can understand. Just like in your childhood, you had a small body. That body is no more, but you are existing. So it is natural, when this body will not exist, I will exist in another body. It is not very difficult to understand. So this theory that body is eternal..., soul is eternal and body is temporary, that's a fact. Therefore this life, this present life, is meant for manufacturing the next body. That is Vedic knowledge. We are creating... Just like a boy. He is studying very nicely. So he's creating next body, a very educated young body. By education he can get nice job, nice place, nice position. So he's creating his next body. Similarly, we are creating our next body according to our karma. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You create a body so that you can come to Me." Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām.
Next body (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is not very difficult to understand. So this theory that body is eternal..., soul is eternal and body is temporary, that's a fact. Therefore this life, this present life, is meant for manufacturing the next body. That is Vedic knowledge. We are creating... Just like a boy. He is studying very nicely. So he's creating next body, a very educated young body. By education he can get nice job, nice place, nice position. So he's creating his next body. Similarly, we are creating our next body according to our karma. So Kṛṣṇa says that "You create a body so that you can come to Me." Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. The whole Vedic philosophy is that if you want to go to some planet—just like people are trying to go to moon planet. So you have to create a body like that. You cannot go in this body. They're attempting to go with this body. That will be failure. It will be not possible. In every planet the atmosphere, the..., everything is different. So you have to create a different body to go to a particular type of planet.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Scholar: At least we can start from living moral life.
Prabhupāda: But they're not living, they're not living. They are doing all kinds of sinful activities, they are drinking, they are having illicit sex, they're gambling, they're killing animals. Very sin... Everyone is engaged in these things. Maybe few percentage people are not engaged. But the throughout the whole world they're implicated in these four kinds of sinful activities. How you can expect that he's going to have next body very nice? No. That is not possible if you believe in karma. According to karma... Just like here in the human society there is law that if you kill a man, you should be also killed. Similarly, in God's laws so the same law is there. Māṁ sa, māṁsa. If I eat an animal then he will have the chance to eat me next life. This is karma. Who is caring for all these things? Who is caring? Nobody's caring.
Prabhupāda: They are doing all kinds of sinful activities, they are drinking, they are having illicit sex, they're gambling, they're killing animals. Very sin... Everyone is engaged in these things. Maybe few percentage people are not engaged. But the throughout the whole world they're implicated in these four kinds of sinful activities. How you can expect that he's going to have next body very nice? No. That is not possible if you believe in karma. According to karma... Just like here in the human society there is law that if you kill a man, you should be also killed. Similarly, in God's laws so the same law is there. Māṁ sa, māṁsa. If I eat an animal then he will have the chance to eat me next life. This is karma. Who is caring for all these things? Who is caring? Nobody's caring. They're slaughtering animals like anything. So this kind of adjustment will not help. They must know scientifically what is the value of life. They must take information from authorized scriptures. Then the human society will be profitable.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise no. Just like there is next life, a boy is educated to have good education so that in the next life—means when he's young man—he will be happy. He's preparing for the next life. The boy is being educated. That means he's preparing for the next youthful life. Youthful life is meant for preparation for the next old age life. Then what we are preparing now for the next body? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhutāni yānti bhūtejyā
- yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
- (BG 9.25)
So where is that education?
Prabhupāda: Just like this child is. This child, she cannot concentrate because due to the body. Other gentlemen, ladies, they can concentrate. So she has to get a different body to have a different mentality. So in other words, with the change of the body the mentality changes. So in this body I am thinking of France, and if my next body, it is not in France or is not human, I will think otherwise. So the whole duration of my life which I thought in one way, that is simply wasted. Simply wasted. They do not know. This knowledge is lacking. There is no such knowledge in the university, any education, nothing. Simply they are wasting time. Simply. They have no perfect knowledge. They are wasting their time, and doing something just like childish, and going on as advanced in civilization, and so on, so on, so on. Now they should think. Simply on some utopian ideas they should not go. They should know, "What is the purpose of life, what is our connection with this cosmic manifestation, if... There must be some creator. Who is that creator? What is my relation with Him?" These... There are so many things. But they are neglecting.
Prabhupāda: The actual aim of life should be back to home, back to Godhead. Then this human form of life is successful. Just like your son. If he goes out independent. Now he is under father's protection, he is very happy. But if he declares his independence... Just like Śyāmasundara. He is very rich man's son. His father, I met him. His father is a big lawyer, big businessman. But he declared independence. And I know his life history, how much he had to go through so many tribulations. Similarly, we are also sons of God. We have declared independence and we are going through so many chapters of life and death in different... Now we have got... Suppose you have got now a nice Englishman's body but next body you do not know what kind of body you are going to get. That will depend on your karma and desire.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, the conclusion should be that body may change or may not remain, but the soul is eternal. Therefore, the next body means when this body will be useless... I am old man, you are also getting old. What is your age now? What is your age now?
Guest (1): My age? I'm fifty-six.
Prabhupāda: Fifty-six. I am seventy-eight. I may be of your father's age.
Guest (1): We are both still boys aren't we?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Spiritually we are young. The body's getting old. Just like your garment, your shirt and coat. It may be torn, but you are not torn. These things are all explained very nicely.
Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
Prabhupāda: That is, that is next question, that you have to accept next body, but what kind of body you'll have? That you can see, that there are so many varieties of life, body. You have to accept one of them. Just like when you were admitted into school for education. The idea was that you'll be educated, and according to your education, there are so many posts you'll have to occupy. Just like you are lawyer, he's medical man, somebody's engineer, somebody else, somebody... Varieties or field of activities. So according to the perfection of one's education, he has to accept one post like that. Similarly, next body means according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). You are preparing your next Life. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
- yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
- (BG 9.25)
So according to your culture, mentality, your condition of life will be at the end of your life. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). The whole life, as we have thought, as we have absorbed in thought, the same mentality will be concentrated at the time of your death. So, a god's mentality, or dog's mentality or hog's mentality, or... There are so many kinds of. So you'll get next body according to that mentality.
Prabhupāda: Everything is being done by prakṛti, by nature. Now in this human form of body, you get that discrimination, "What should I do?" If you act like cats and dogs in this life, then you are missing the chance. You do not take advantage of the power of discrimination. Bhagavad-gītā says, dehāntaram: "Another body one gets." So another body... And next body I can get this dog's body. But you have... In human form of life you have got the discriminating power not to get the dog's body, but you can get the body of a god. That you can do. Now it is our discrimination, "Whether I am going to get a dog's body or god's body." That you can do. This is human form of body. A dog cannot not do. He has no such discrimination power. But you can do. So if you do not do that, then you are missing the opportunity. Yānti deva-vratā devān pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ (BG 9.25). This is the verse. Anywhere you like, you can go if you utilize your, this human form of body properly.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Immediate. Just like immediate I am walking. When it is fixed up, then I take up. Then when it is fixed up, then I take up, like this. Immediately.
Yaśomatīnandana: What about hell? How does the jīva soul go to hell?
Prabhupāda: Yes. They go. Those who are going to hell, that is fixed up very quickly. It doesn't take much time. Hell means he is getting the next body, hellish body. That's all. Suppose he is going to get the hellish body to become the worm of stool, so in that way he enters the worm, mother worm, to get the body and enjoy the hell. That's all.
Satsvarūpa: Don't they sometimes have to go to Yamarāja first for practice?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is daiva-netreṇa. These things are finished very quickly. And if it takes little time, then this man who is dying, he remains in coma and does not die. Because the judgement is going on, the decision waiting, coma. You have seen sometimes a man is in coma for seven days, eight days? Yes. That means his judgement is going on, that... Such kind of death means very sinful death. Not yet settled up, very complicated case. Therefore it takes time.
Prabhupāda: What do they know? They know something, but everyone knows. Even the birds and beasts, they also know something.
Girirāja: "In this way, one after another the body changes and the soul transmigrates. See how the plant worms change from one twig to another so carefully. Similarly the living entity changes his body as soon as the higher authorities decide on his next body." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...the modern civlization is that they have no knowledge about the change of body. Almost 99 percent people, they do not know.
Yaśomatīnandana: Even the so-called religions, the religions even don't teach.
Prabhupāda: They do not know.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...devotees, they do not want any opulence of this material world. They are, what is called, pessimistic. They do not give any value to the opulence of this material world. And it is very good philosophy. But fools and rascals, they are attracted. Now, these buildings were constructed, very highly intellectual men undoubtedly, but they enjoyed, say, for hundred years. That's all. Then their bodies changed, and nobody knows what kind of body he has got. This is materialism. Suppose if you are offered some very nice comfortable life, and if you know that "Next life I am going to become a dog," would you be happy? But they have no information that what next body... Body, he has to take another body. He cannot enjoy. Whatever he has created, he cannot enjoy for good. That is not possible. He has to leave it. Just like these Romans. They have left. They constructed so big, big building just to enjoy, but they had to leave it by nature's force and accept another body.
Prabhupāda: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that he has been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the value of this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality, nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?
Yogeśvara: Yeah, there was that man who came to see you a couple of days ago. His argument was that we can't really say for sure because it's not perceivable that we will take a dog's body. But at least this is something we can understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.
Prabhupāda: But you understand, but you can understand also that you'll be kicked out. Don't you understand this?
Prabhupāda: Nature. Nature is giving us different body. I am the spirit soul. Because I have accepted natural, the material nature's protection, I am getting different types of body. This life I have got this body, next life I may get another body. That is explained. Tathā dehāntara prāpti. We have to accept another body. Now you are scientist, next life you may be different. You may have a different body. Where is that science? Here is the information. But where is the science cultivated in the universities, education. There is no science, but this is a fact.
Guest (2): Well, it's just on five. Do you want to sneak in one?
Madhudviṣa: These are preparations which is prepared from Australian milk.
Prabhupāda: Let him take. Yes.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It doesn't matter him, but there are persons—he will shudder if he is said that "Next body you are going to become a dog." (laughter)
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Where is the beginning of evolution, is that what he's saying? Where does evolution begin?
Devotee: What is the principle of evolution?
Hṛdayānanda: How can it be that we're advancing if we can become a dog in the next life, is that it, or something inferior? Where is the question of progress?
Prabhupāda: What is that? No, by nature's way there is evolution, from dog to fox, fox to this, that, that. That is... There is a law. But again one can fall down. In this way one comes to the human form of body. That is the chance of self-realization. But if in the human form of life, he does not behave like a human being—he behaves like cats and dogs—then he gets again cats and dogs. So if by his work, he gets degradation to get the body like a dog, then again it will take millions of years to come to the human form of life. Therefore intelligent man should be very careful. He should not say, "I don't care." That is very risky life.
Prabhupāda: No all of a sudden.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Or is it by gradual evolution from...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). As you are thinking always, so you are creating your next body.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That still is not the answer. What we want is, at the time of creation of the material world, when all the species, 8,400,000 species...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are all simultaneously manifested, just at once?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. But they are not manifested yet. Because it was like sleeping. When there is no creation and..., there is sleeping stage. Just like in the sleeping stage, even at the present moment, at night, the dog is sleeping, the bird is sleeping, the man is sleeping, the tiger is... Everyone is sleeping at night. But in the morning, as soon as they awake, they understand, "I am tiger," "I am dog," "I am man," "I am this," "I am that." Everyone remembers that "I have to do this. I have to do that. I have to go there. I have to bring money from there."
Prabhupāda: We are going to have the next body. That's a fact. So Bhagavad-gītā says that how you can have the next body.
- yānti deva-vratā devān
- pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
- bhūtejyā yānti bhūtāni
- mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām
- (BG 9.25)
"So you can go to the higher planetary system. Prepare yourself in that way. You can go to the pitṛloka. You can remain within this world. And you can come to Me also." So if I have to prepare myself for the next life, why not go back to home, back to Godhead? Why unnecessarily go to the other planets or to the dogs and cats? Prepare in such a way that tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). No more material body. You go back to home, back... That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the best. After all, you have to prepare yourself for the next body. So why not prepare yourself for the next body as good as Kṛṣṇa's? Sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). It is very intelligent movement. Any intelligent man should take it very seriously.
Prabhupāda: That is responsibility. So this child, this boy, if he remains in darkness that he will continue this childhood body, and father, mother will take care of him—"I don't require to take any education"—then future life, when he will be young man, he will be not nicely posted for want of education. Then how miserable it will be. Similarly, if we don't take care of this education that "I am not this body, my future body will be different, and if I do not know what kind of different body I'll have to accept..." Suppose we accept some lower grade of body. Then what is my future? So if we don't understand this philosophy as Kṛṣṇa teaches, asmin dehe dehinaḥ, "Within this body there is the occupier, soul," so if you do not understand, that is very risky life. Nature's way must go on. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We cannot control over the nature's way. And we get our next body according to the association of different modes of nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya. Everything is there. Why do you not study? Why you remain in darkness? What is this life? Is that very good life? You, what is your name?
Prabhupāda: According to desire. According to your work. You are working. Everyone is working. Now, according to the work and association, he is creating his body. Just like if you infect some type of disease, then you'll have to accept that disease. So we are working ways—we are individuals—and according to that work we are creating our next body. If you are working in a godly way, then you'll get your body next as god, and if you are working in a dogly way, then you'll get your body as dog. So, by nature's way, evolution, we come through 800 millions of forms of life, then nature gives us a chance to accept this human form of body. In this body, our consciousness being advanced, if we try we can understand what is the problem of life, why we have accepted birth, death, old age and disease, how to get out of these, how to revive our original nature of body and again become eternal, full of knowledge and bliss. This is the chance of the human body. Therefore you are a philosopher because you are in the human body, but a dog cannot be a philosopher.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, who eats only food offered to Kṛṣṇa, can counteract all reactions of past material infections, which are impediments to the progress of self-realization. On the other hand, one who does not do so continues to increase the volume of sinful action, and this prepares the next body to resemble hogs and dogs, to suffer the resultant reactions of all sins.
The material world is full of contamination, and one who is immunized by accepting prasādam of the Lord, food offered to Viṣṇu, is saved from the attack, whereas one who does not do so becomes subjected to contamination. Food grains or vegetables are factually eatables. The human being eats different kinds of food grains, vegetables, fruits, etc., and the animals eat the refuse of the food grains and vegetables, grass, plants, etc. Human beings who are accustomed to eating meat and flesh must also depend on the production of vegetation in order to eat the animals.
Prabhupāda: Now the material nature has gone, three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and mixture. So we are association with the modes of material nature and according to that nature we are manufacturing our next body. This is the... So in the material world we are infecting several types of quality of the nature. Not everyone is on the same quality. Just like these boys, they are being trained up under certain quality, they're not going to the restaurant, they are not going to the liquor shop, they're not smoking, they're not eating meat, they are no illicit sex, they are being trained up, this is a quality. And another man is going to the liquor shop, to the brothel, so many other things. They're not of the same quality.
Prabhupāda: That's right. Very good civilization. (break)... Aryan civilization. This is not Aryan civilization. Barbarian. (break) A small child, he knows that "I shall become like my elder brother. I shall get this body, next body." And these people, they cannot understand that there is next body. That means their civilization is less than a child's civilization. (break) ...hantara prāptiḥ.
Bali-mardana: Even every child knows that "When I grow up I will have a different body,"...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: ...but they do not know.
Prabhupāda: These people, they do not understand. What kind of civilized men they are? Less than a child, and they are proud of their science.
Prabhupāda: As we are accepting different bodies in our this span of life from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood, from youthhood to old age... So this is the example. And after this old age, after this body is useless, then I accept another body. And again another chapter of life begins. And on my next life, next body I am creating, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya, infection. Just like if I infect some disease, I am creating that disease. If I infect smallpox disease, then I must develop that disease. How it is, subtle way, working, that we cannot see. But if somewhere I have infected some disease, somewhere it will be manifest. It will manifest. You cannot check it. So in this material world there are three qualities: goodness, passion, and ignorance. So as we associate, we develop a type of body. So these crimes means they do not get good association. Naturally they are developing. And now these boys, they are also Americans and Europeans. They are getting good association, and they are becoming free from all bad habits.
Prabhupāda: No, as I told you the... Our only business is to know the Absolute Truth. If you do not try for this then you remain animals. Animal cannot know the Absolute Truth. So to remain animal means varieties of life. Sometimes cat, sometimes dog, sometimes demigod, sometimes this, sometimes that, sometimes American, sometimes something else. This will go on. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). In this life we are living, we are making the next body. So if we work nicely then next body may be the higher planetary system or above this material world, in the spiritual world.
Prof. Hopkins: And the way to progress then is to take, to study, to learn these things in order, in the proper order.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the first instruction. Just like in the body of a child the spirit soul is there. Therefore the child is becoming a boy, and the boy is becoming a young man. Young man is becoming old man. Then what is the next? Then the old man must have next body. This is very simple logic. Now... But I am the same. I was also a baby. I was a boy. I remember. But the body is no longer existing. I am existing. I know that I had such and such body. So therefore the conclusion is that after annihilation of this body, I will exist in another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So who knows this science? And there are 8,400,000 forms of body. What kind of or what form of body I am going to get next, where is that science? So we are teaching, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, all these things, not only theoretically, but with scientific knowledge, philosophy, everything. You can see our... We have got fifty books of four hundred, five hundred pages each. We are teaching only about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Implicated by desires. We are desiring always, constantly. So the desire makes your next body. Every living entity in this material world is desiring how to enjoy. What is your question? Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How the eternal spirit soul becomes so completely absorbed that he completely forgets about the future and simply he becomes absorbed in some temporary sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That is material existence. Material existence means to satisfy senses. That is material existence. Don't you see that everyone is planning for some material.... Just that one man is the.... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa was saying that he was eating motorcar. Just see. (laughter) What is the meaning of this? But he is desiring like that, that "I shall be famous man by eating motorcar."
Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows. Suppose you have got this body; next body he's a dog. I can say you'll bark.
Rāmeśvara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What you'll do? That's all. What to speak of Kṛṣṇa; I can say.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was Satsvarūpa's question, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's question.
Prabhupāda: No, this is the answer. Kṛṣṇa's position is always the same. He knows past, present and future.
Rāmeśvara: This is Karandhara's problem, this point of philosophy. He cannot understand it. His argument is that he is having so much trouble due to his sense attraction. And Kṛṣṇa gave him the sense attraction, or Kṛṣṇa gave him senses; now he is having trouble controlling his senses. But he argues that Kṛṣṇa knows everything, so Kṛṣṇa knew that he would have trouble controlling his senses; therefore why did Kṛṣṇa give him senses?
Prabhupāda: That we say also. There is no difficulty. Because at the time of death, whatever you are thinking, you'll get the next body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Rādhāvallabha: They say, though, that this is how the different bodies come into being.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we say also.
Candanācārya: But can any body be generated from the imagination, any kind of...
Prabhupāda: It is not this imagination. I wanted that facility. So my subtle mind is wanting that. So nature is supplying: "All right, you get it."
Hari-śauri: We don't create the bodies. We desire them, and the material nature has created already.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You wanted this body. Therefore you have got this body. You wanted. Just like a child asks the father, "Give me this dress." Father gives him, "All right, take this dress." You wanted a certain type of body. Just like the surfers. They want a body like fish. Therefore they are so much anxious to swim. So father will give him next body a fish.
Rāmeśvara: He was saying that some people criticize us that we are saying this is God's creation, yet we are always speaking of it in a very bad way.
Prabhupāda: Very bad way?
Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Bad way, good way, man proposes, God disposes. You want something, bad or good.... Actually, everything is bad. This body or the fish's body or the dog's body, that is all material body. So everything is bad. But I prefer to get the body of a human being or a dog or a fish or a bird. That is my choice. So God gives you that body. Everywhere God's mercy is there, because whatever you want, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world.
Prabhupāda: No, the things is.... Suppose a person, by his right, has to get so much money from his father's property. If somebody does not give him that money or somehow or other checks him to get the money, so that's a very heinous act. If he is actually inheritor of the father's property, he must get it. That is justice. Similarly, in the human form of life, one can get this education. If this education is lacking, that means we are envious. We're not giving the opportunity of fulfilling the right. And without this education, there is chance of falling down. Just like tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Another body you have to accept. If you do not give proper education, then next body may be lower than human being. There are so many different types of bodies, 8,400,000. So according to our mentality, we get another body. Nature's law. Nobody can check it. This life I may be very satisfied, that "I have got this body, let me enjoy without any responsibility and become an animal." That's not very good civilization. They do not believe in the next life. Big, big educated men, they have no brain even to understand that we are changing every moment the body, and they don't believe that body changes and the soul continues. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body. Some of them are low grade, some of them are high grade. That depends on our association with the modes of nature. Nature's work is going on. Just like if we contaminate some particular germs of disease, that disease will develop and we have to suffer. Similarly, by our contamination or association with the guṇa, qualities of nature... There are three qualities, goodness, passion and ignorance. So we have to know how to associate.
Prabhupāda: Body, that I have explained, that you are associating with some modes of material nature. So according to that association, you'll get next body. Just like, I have already explained.
Bill Sauer: Is that immediately after one dies you transfer to another body, or later?
Prabhupāda: Yes, body is changing every moment. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
Every body... Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, boy is changing his body to youthhood, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The young man is becoming old man. Similarly, when the body is no more endurable, then you get another body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This body is being destroyed, we are not destroyed. We living entities, we are nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. We are eternal.
Prabhupāda: So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.
Prabhupāda: No, he's not ignorant. This body, next body is achieved according to the consciousness. At the time of, if you are thinking of something to which you are very much attached, then you get that similar body. If you are thinking of your pet dog, then you get the dog's body. And if you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, God, then you'll get the body like Kṛṣṇa. That will be decided at the time of your death. Because at the time of death you'll be absorbed with thinking which you have done throughout the whole life. Sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6). Just like the whole day you are working with some business, at night also dreaming that, subtle body. So you have to train up yourself within this life how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Then there is chance of thinking of Kṛṣṇa at the time of death and go back to home. It is not difficult. Very easy.
Prabhupāda: This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work. So in this life you may be a prime minister, but if you have worked like menial dogs and hogs, then you are going to get body of a dog and hog. That is nature's gift. You cannot check it. You have no hand on the administration of the nature.
Prabhupāda: Then he'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām. Everything is there. You cannot become a learned scholar or learned leader from the platform of go-kharaḥ. That is the defect. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) this is the first instruction. Who is thinking that "What next body I'm going to accept?" Nobody's thinking. They say after finishing this body everything is finished. And Gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Then what kind of paṇḍita he is? Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), nityam, na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul is immortal. Antavanta ime dehāḥ: the śarīra is antavat, perishable. Nityasyoktāḥ śarīrinaḥ. Who is considering? If I am eternal, if I am not going to die even after the annihilation of the body, then the next question would be jijñāsuḥ. Then what will be my next position? What kind of body I am going to get? That is intelligent. But nobody has this intelligence, and he's passing as paṇḍita. Big, big professor, they'll say, "Swamiji, after death, everything is finished." I went to Moscow. There was a big professor, Kotovsky, Indology professor.
Prabhupāda: She will get again birth in a human body. That is guaranteed so that he'll get again chance of chanting. That is also great gain. Ordinary person, he does not know what body he is going to get next body. But a person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting, he is guaranteed. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). He is guaranteed to take birth as human being in a very sacred family like brāhmaṇa and very rich family. So I have to go.
Manīṣā: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is going to live here. Everyone is going to die. Before death, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Manīṣā: Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Don't be worried.
Prabhupāda: So it was horrible for me, but he was eating very nice. So in this way the world is going on. "One man's food is another man's poison." So similarly, we are creating our next birth according to our desire. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash. Now against our movement there is propaganda in USA, charging that "He has brainwashed them." (aside:) You can come here. (Hindi) "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is our position. When we speak all these things, they say it is brainwashing movement. Actually it is brainwashing movement because we are dissipating all kinds of misunderstanding, values of life. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12).
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, this, this is fact, that when this body is no more working, the subtle body carries the soul to another gross body. That they cannot see, but it acts. This science they do not know. Seeing is always not competent, material eye. Just like the example is given that flavor is carried by the air. It is being carried, but I cannot see. But it is being carried. That is transmigration of the soul. The soul is carried by the subtle body to another particular body, and according to his karma under superior examination, the soul, a very small particle, one ten-thousandth part of the hair, he is put into the semina of the particular father, and he injects. So the soul takes place in the womb of the mother. She supplies the material to develop the next body. This is the process, transmigration. Then, when the body is complete to come out, then another body works. Another chapter begins: tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So this is development.
Prabhupāda: When the judgment will be given... There was time still to live in their particular body. So after finishing that karma, then the next body.
Hari-śauri: So we couldn't understand who this luminous being was.
Rāmeśvara: Then he closes the article by giving references to many books which describe this.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Which book?
Rāmeśvara: He first of all refers to Plato, the old Greek philosopher. In one of his books, Book Ten of the Republic, he describes a soldier. No, he gives a story which supports the idea of transmigration of soul.
Prabhupāda: Plato.
Rāmeśvara: Plato.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That's a fact.
Prabhupāda: What is the difference? If the dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? (Hindi) What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die, and he will have to change, he'll also change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be a dog like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). My problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life. So one who is interested in real life, why he should join the dog race? It is all dog race. And they are taking it as advancement of knowledge. That is not advancement. They do not know how to stop. Nature will not excuse you. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). If you associate with certain type of modes of material nature, then you will have to accept the next body accordingly. The nature will not excuse you. The business is that I have got this human form of life. I must fully utilize it how to get out of these problems. That is life.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), there will be change of the body. So you accept or not accept, it doesn't matter. It will take. But if I am going to change my body, and if I am eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), then what is my next body, it should not be my concern. But nobody cares for it. "Never mind what body I am going to get next. It doesn't matter. Let me enjoy this body." This is animal civilization. The dog, at night barking, jumping, he is not able to understand, what is next life, what is rebirth, what is his... He cannot understand. But a human being can understand. So if he is put into the darkness, then what is the difference between animal and human being? So this is the problem. So we are trying (in) our humble way to give this knowledge to the world. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And our request to everyone is that "You try to understand the philosophy and cooperate."
| Page Title: | Next body (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 18 of Feb, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=44, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 44 |