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National (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"national" |"nationalities" |"nationality" |"nationalize" |"nationalized" |"nationally" |"nationals" |"nationalwise" |"nationhood"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...to me that the actual purpose of this Tirupati government committee is eventually to do away with all religious function.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's their real plan.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: How to take the money that's being donated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the beginning. They are making a show now, but eventually the plan will be to close all the temples.

Mahāṁsa: Nationalize all temples.

Harikeśa: Not close, 'cause you can make a lot of money. It's easier than enacting taxes.

Mahāṁsa: Just like banks.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but when they don't become profitable then they'll close it. That's the point. Milk 'em dry. Instead of the state or the government being the servant of the Deity, they are making the Deity the servant of the government.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Money-earning servant.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The tax collector.

Acyutānanda: Just like they nationalize industries, they want to nationalize the temple, Kṛṣṇa.

Harikeśa: In Andhra Pradesh all the temples are nationalized?

Indian man (1): Yes, all temples.

Harikeśa: What about ours?

Mahāṁsa: Well, they're not so strong in the other states. Andhra Pradesh and...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they'll copy it. I think they're starting in U.P. now. I read in the paper.

Acyutānanda: Anywhere that there are big temples.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: U.P. has a lot of temples.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what about our temples?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they will gradually try.

Prabhupāda: So you make this American property.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: They are doing like that here?

Acyutānanda: Yes. In Europe, when Christianity first came to Constantine, the priests would stay in the top of a river, and they marched an army through the river, and the priest put the holy water, and when the army came on the other side they said, "Now you've all been baptized. You're all Christians." Mass conversion. (break) ...Hindu groups are mixing Hinduism and Indian nationality, it's fascism. That was also the government's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Huh?

Acyutānanda: Fascism.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Acyutānanda: The Hindu groups. That was the point that enraged the government. The same paṇḍitas with the prāyaścitta, they don't like the Mohammedans, they don't like the Christians. They say, "You have created Pakistan, so all the Mohammedans should go there. This is Hindustan."

Prabhupāda: Murvi(?) meat here?

Indian man (1): Not everyone did.

Prabhupāda: Mostly.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: All over India. Like Madana already got three devotees when I was there in one week. By now he may also have more. Bengalis like kīrtana very much. (break) ...devotees are Bengalis.

Prabhupāda: ...ago Bengali culture was very much adored all over India. Even one big politician, Gandhi's guru, Goke, Gokule, he remarked, "What Bengal thinks today, other provinces will think tomorrow." He said like that. And actually all big, big movements started from Bengal. The national movement also was started from Bengal. Whatever we may criticize Vivekananda, when... He's a Bengali. He went first for preaching Indian religion. Rabindranath Tagore, he's a Bengali. All big, big...

Jayapatākā: Aurobindo.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo is a Bengali.

Devotee (2): Paramahaṁsa Yogananda is also a Bengali.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know him?

Devotee (2): I don't know him... (laughter)

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.

Madhudviṣa: Well, we have money. So we have become more...

Prabhupāda: No, you have no money. You have not money. Therefore you are working on my order. You have no money. You have no money.

Madhudviṣa: I know.

Prabhupāda: I know it.

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one story in the magazine National Geographic of a valuable diamond, the Hope Diamond, the most valuable in the world, that was stolen from a deity of Sītā-devī. So every single person that has ever gotten the diamond has been killed.

Prabhupāda: Sītā-devī?

Rādhāvallabha: Yes, a deity of Sītā-devī. They stole the diamond from this deity in India.

Prabhupāda: When?

Rādhāvallabha: Many years ago.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Reporter (1): That is?

Prabhupāda: Diseased condition. Impure condition. At the present moment we have discovered so many services-national service, communal service, and this service, that service—but nobody is recommending service of God. This is the diseased condition. Therefore we are suffering.

Reporter (1): So what do you really mean by arousing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness? What does it entail?

Prabhupāda: That means we have to serve Kṛṣṇa. We are serving now non-Kṛṣṇa. Nothing is non-Kṛṣṇa. Something māyā. Just like dreaming. Dreaming, it is also activity. That is false activity.

Reporter (2): Excuse me, may I ask one question if I can, please. You said māyā or disease. Māyā is disease or māyā or many other ailments? By which...

Prabhupāda: Māyā is a diseased condition.

Meeting with Bankers -- April 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotees: Jaya. Haribol.

Prabhupāda: So I have got now the Punjab National Bank, so you are ready to give me money, but I request you that you bless me that I may remain a servant of Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya!

Indian: Should I represent Kuvera?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: There is (indistinct), that should be settled up. Suppose you are not doing properly, I can say, "This is this," do, show you how to do it other way. (break) Where is Govinda dāsī? Where is the Deity information? She is manufacturing some (indistinct).

Guru-kṛpā: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) In India, Punjab National give us 8.84.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) That's all right. Just put over (here). (indistinct) (break) That I want.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That we should work together.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is this (indistinct)?

Hari-śauri: There's no problem with... (break) ...as far as distributing Kṛṣṇa consciousness like that, but the thing is they simply don't want to cooperate with the ISKCON movement.

Prabhupāda: But why?

Hari-śauri: That no one knows. They simply just don't want to mix.

Prabhupāda: That we can settle up by sitting together. Why there should be difference?

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And not only China, this is for all of Asia. It includes as.... Some of the persons belonging to it are the chairman of Coca-Cola, the Bankers Trust Company first vice president, all of the big banks, Bank of America senior vice president, First National City Bank vice president, all of these men.

Prabhupāda: So you can contract with all big, big men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And he's the president of the council.

Prabhupāda: His father?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Then he is very influential man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very. So he immediately got...

Prabhupāda: So you should be like father like son.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why dalda? Your forefathers had ghee. You enjoy it now.

Rāmeśvara: Actually, if we introduce ghee in America, we'll be very famous. That will make us very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it. You have got enough milk, you can do it.

Rāmeśvara: I was thinking yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that as our movement becomes greater and greater, then taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam at a restaurant or at our Sunday feast will be like a national pastime.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Everyone in the country.

Prabhupāda: And the Rathayātrā also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it will be like going to the ball game.

Prabhupāda: Rathayātrā, introduce in every city. You have already got some national holiday?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You'll get everywhere. In this way, one day we'll capture the whole government, and you'll become the president.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: Germany?

Prabhupāda: Germany is little recouped, but England is finished. Therefore I say India got independence not due to Gandhi. It is due to Hitler. That is my opinion. I have got reason. The Hitler fighting with England made them smashed, so their political power became nil almost, and on this opportunity, Hitler helped Subash Chandra Bose, one of the leaders of India, to organize Indian National Army. This Indian National Army, when attacked, at least made a show of attack from Imphala(?), especially on Calcutta dropped bombs, and the whole Calcutta became vacant. Perhaps myself and a few others remained. I sent my sons.... Of course, daughter was married, but they sent to Navadvīpa, Śrīdhara Mahārāja's āśrama. My wife refused to go out of Calcutta. She said, "I'll be bombed maybe, but I'll not go out." (laughs) So I had to remain in Calcutta. So I've seen bombing and Calcutta all vacant. And one day I was eating in the evening, at night—immediately bombing. Kachori... I was hungry, (laughs) but the eating finished.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Everyone tries. That is not a particular job for you. Everyone is trying; the cats and dogs, they are also trying. The cat also very much anxious to give protection to the cubs, innocent, helpless. The dog also giving. The birds, they're bringing food for the offspring, and as soon as the mother comes, they become very much engladdened, "Oh, here is food, here is food." And they, with the mouth, they.... So this kind of sentiment is there even in the cats, dogs, animals, birds, beasts. That is natural. But we do not know how to do actual welfare activity. Somebody's engaged with his family. Somebody is engaged with his own body. Somebody.... This is only development of consciousness. The animals, they are interested with the body, himself. The human being, they are interested with the extension of the body. Just like I am alone now. Now when I become, you young men, then I have got my wife, then my interest is also for my wife. The wife's interest is for the husband. In this way, children, then interest extended, husband, wife, children. Then, this is family-wise. Then little advancement, of the society. Little advancement, community. Just like in your country, the sense of black community, white community. Then, above that, for the nation. When there is war between America and other nation, then you black and white people forget the small interest for national interest. You advance to fight, to lay down your life. So in this way we can make progress, but such progress is not perfection. Such progress is not perfection.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (reading) "...who has made it his life's work to debunk the so-called material powers of god-men the world over, and said that he is afraid for his life. Amongst those he has challenged is Satya Sai Baba, a mystic who has thousands of followers in South Africa. The man who is said to expose fraudulent practices amongst miracle workers is Dr. Abraham T. Kavoor, who recently held a spell-binding magic show at the Bangalore Town Hall to debunk the miracles of god-men. He claimed that several of the tricks demonstrated had, in fact, been learned from persons who had duped the public that they could perform miracles and other extraordinary acts. And this, he believed, would lead to an attempt on his life. 'I am not afraid of gods. They don't exist. But I am afraid of god-men, because they are alive. They have thugs as agents. If a good man like Gandhi could be assassinated, what keeps a Kavoor from suffering the same fate?' Addressing a press conference, Dr. Kavoor implied that an attempt might be made on his life if he tried to expose the fraudulent practice by god-men because this would involve a physical search of the persons involved. Hence his insistence that his investigation would have to be preceded by their permission. (The permission of these so-called mystics, registered letters.) To date, he said, he had written six registered letters to Satya Sai Baba issuing his famous challenge, but had no reply from him as yet. Asked how he produced ash and other objects out of nowhere, Dr. Kavoor indicated that one of the methods was by concealing the objects to be materialized inside of his coat. The rest was pure sleight of hand. Photographs of him (Sai Baba) exposing his coat have been published both in the national and international press, he said. Reporting that haṭha-yogī L.S. Lal had confessed to him that his much-vaunted show of walking on water had been pure trick designed to make some money, Dr. Kavoor said, 'How long can the government of India tolerate such hoaxers who claim to have supernatural powers and exploit the ordinary men?' "

Prabhupāda: You keep this. We shall have to show to the Indian government authorities.

Room Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. It was sold to somebody else. But because it is an old church, the government municipality would not allow to break it. Then the man who purchased, he was obliged to sell to us.

Hari-śauri: That's an exact duplicate of the situation that happened in Melbourne. That place was sold to a property developer, and then the National Trust put a classification on it, so he was not able to break it down, and neither could he utilize the extra space in the yard for building flats, because the council would not allow him. So then we.... Originally they would not sell to us.

Prabhupāda: Same thing here. Nobody would purchase it on account of this black quarter. Nobody was purchasing, ready to purchase.

Hari-śauri: So Kṛṣṇa is saving some very nice places for us.

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's trick. Everyone talks of the "We Eastern, we believe in this," and "We Western, we believe in this." You remain peaceful, everyone. Everyone is thinking like this. We have no such thing, Eastern, Western. It is fact. For everyone, it is good. Eastern, Western, we don't take. Several times, this question.... I talk, I spoke in the American Embassy in Calcutta. They gave me the subject matter, "East and West." So I, in the beginning, I began to speak that we have no such dual..., East and West.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: As you can afford. Minimum one cart. Otherwise, three carts. In India the Ratha-yātrā festival is going on, according to rough estimate, for the last two thousand years, and the crowd never diminishes. One secretary of Parliament or something like that.

Hari-śauri: Śrī R. Subramanyam, M.A., Deputy Director Research, Lok Sabha Secretariat, National Parliament, New Delhi. Should I read it? "A strange feature of the modern world is that in spite of vast advances in science and technology and the establishment of a good number of institutions for human welfare, mankind has not found true peace and happiness. Knowledge of material sciences and arts has increased tremendously in recent times, and millions of volumes on each fill the libraries the world over. People and leaders in every country are generally well versed in these arts and sciences, but despite their efforts, human society everywhere continues to be in turmoil and distress. The reason is not far to see. It is that they have not learned the science of God, the most fundamental of every other art and science, and fail to apply it to the facts of life. The need of the hour is, therefore, to do it if mankind is not only to survive but flower into a glorious existence. To teach this science of God to people everywhere and to aid them in their progress and development towards the real goal of life, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is most eminently fitted. In fact, this great ancient work of Vyāsa will fill this need of the modern times, for it is a cultural presentation for the respiritualization of the entire human society. His Divine Grace, Śrīla A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of the ISKCON movement, has taken it upon himself, in addition to his ceaseless travels and other multifarious activities in the service of the Lord, the stupendous task of translating this Sanskrit work into English in about sixty volumes for the welfare and happiness of mankind. It is really astonishing how he is able to do this single-handed, and when one comes to think of this, apart from his other great literary works, one is tempted to wonder if he is not the same Vyāsa Muni reborn today to adapt his own old work into a universal language of this age for the spiritual upliftment of the modern man. So far eighteen volumes of this most beautiful literature on God have been brought out by ISKCON, and the rest are under preparation. Needless to say that in keeping with the excellence of their other publications, the publishers have seen to it that the printing, get-up, and pictures in these volumes are also of the highest quality, as though to serve as an ornament to the divine contents of the books. This is a rare opportunity to people and leaders of every country, race and community in the world to know and understand the glorious science of God and work for their perfection. I would say that this encyclopedia of spiritual knowledge is more important and fundamental than the encyclopedia of any other branch of knowledge and should, therefore, find a rightful place not only in the public and private libraries, big and small, of educational and other institutions, as also of every household, but above all in the hearts and minds of every man and woman." That seems to be it.

Prabhupāda: Now read.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Why don't you say, (laughs) "You wanted to kill me, just see, I'm chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Hari-śauri: I don't think it would be received very well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She might say, "See, I was right."

Prabhupāda: Mother advising young daughter to kill her child.

Rūpānuga: Actually there was a statement in the national magazine, the President's wife was advising her own daughter to the reporters that she should have illicit sex.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, this President's wife, this present First Lady is very abominable. She actually came out and said, "If I were young I would also experiment with drugs." So many things.

Prabhupāda: No, why here? In India, in India, in a office, I was going there for my Back to Godhead, so the clerk had one girl, they were intimately related, and the girl's father, mother allowed. The boy was coming. And when the girl wanted to marry him, the father refused. "No, no, you cannot marry. Let him come as friend, but there is no question of marriage."

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So many people, there are so many earthworms also. Ants also, gathered together. Does it mean they are independent? Hare Kṛṣṇa. You know the earthworms? They heap up earth and disappear. So you are, if you take it in that way, that big, big buildings, just like earthworms gathering up earth and then disappears. Actually that is the... Like the worms, we gather together and become a nation and apply all our energy, heaps of buildings, then finished. We go somewhere, you go somewhere. And who knows what he's going to be next life? Everything is going like that, family, community, national. Like the same earthworm, they gather so much huge dipi..., what is called dipi (?)in English?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some sort of manure.

Prabhupāda: We are dipi. (?)We are dipi. We dipi. You have seen?

Devotee: Teepee?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, big heaps, mountains, hills?

Prabhupāda: Not hills. Anyway, small or big, they gather together and then goes away, finished by the laws of nature. Washington, he gave you independence, but where he is? What he is doing? Where is that person who gave you independence?

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Well, in the natural world and in the cosmos, nothing is stable. Life only survives all the things that can cause it to perish by mobility, by moving. A coconut tree on one island drops its seeds in the ocean to float for thousands of miles to wash up on another shore, so that if that island is destroyed it will have life on another island. The seed blossom of a plant is the way the plant survives. It sends its seeds off to other meadows to assure its survival. The premise here is that humanity arrived in nature very recently. We are part of nature, but we arrived very recently to give life on earth the same mobility, the same chance to survive. Among the hundreds of other planets in the universe, as a dandelion does in seeding other meadows, as a coconut palm does in surviving on other islands—the coconut palm does not know that there are other islands, but yet it launches its seeds to the unknown currents of the ocean—I believe it is our duty to launch our seeds, our space arks, launch those seeds to the unknown gravitational currents of the stars and find the hundreds of other planets that are out there, so that there cannot be enough cosmic disasters to cause life to perish. And it was meeting two or three of your people at the airport, and I asked them about—at the Washington National Airport, I think it was Meena and Mary Davis, and Sarvabhauma I believe—and I said "What about your philosophy?" He said, "We talk about living on other planets." Boy, (laughs) right away I got very interested. And I believe people have had visions of life to other planets because I believe that's our destiny, and that is our reason for existence in nature. I've been interested in the Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll say why? I'm a materialistic type, why am I here? (laughs) You have an interesting philosophy that... You see, not all of us can be building space arks, not all of us can leave the earth, and we should not be using up all our material resources, destroying all other life unnecessarily. And I think that we have to adopt a life style that is a little simpler, that we would enjoy life on this earth, where most of us have to stay, with lesser material requirements. Secondly, I believe we are going to have to have a different type of society on a space ark if we're going to have maybe a hundred years to two hundreds years going to another star. The traditional societies that we are familiar with may not be able to survive the social pressures. Maybe this type of an environment-Is this communal, would you say?—I think it's going to have to be some type of communal environment to survive this kind of a trip. So this is my interest in the Kṛṣṇa movement. I think they seem to have the visions of going to other planets, which I think is our only reason for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, I was discussing. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). You can go to the higher planetary system where the devas, the demigods live. Their duration of life is very, very big. Our six months is equal to one day there. Such ten thousands of years they live. But they die. It is not permanent. But the duration of life is very big, the standard of life is very high. These are the advantages. But there is death, old age, disease; birth, death, old age and disease. But if you transfer yourself in the spiritual kingdom, then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then you don't get any more material birth there. That is because we are eternal, we living entities. We do not die. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After giving up this body we do not die actually; we accept another body.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: That pathologist.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. He works in National Institute of Health in Washington, D.C. We was telling me he was from Haridwar from a very pious family, and he said his parents are Vaiṣṇavas, and he has been thinking since from his childhood about this problem about life, the origin of life and consciousness, and we talked a little bit about our concept of this origin of life, connecting from the Vedas and the scientific interrelationship. And he was very much impressed, and he told me that if he can be of any help, he's willing to...

Prabhupāda: You should call him, let us.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he's coming this evening.

Prabhupāda: All right, very good.

Pradyumna: In India, there are many Ph.D.'s and scientists who are Vaiṣṇavas, and they write articles. But in India it doesn't go noticed. In the South, there are many.

Prabhupāda: In South, eh?

Pradyumna: In Bangalore and many places.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Guest (2): Your Grace? How can a person tell what his or her occupation or duty is supposed to be?

Prabhupāda: Yes, duty is already prescribed, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So this is the duty. "You give up all other duties, you simply take to Me, surrender unto Me." This is duty. All other duties, they are temporary, and this is real duty, to surrender to God. If you think that "I am giving up all other duties, my family duties, my community duty, my national duty and so many..." Because you may think like that, that "Giving up all duties, I simply become Kṛṣṇa conscious...," as Arjuna was thinking. But Kṛṣṇa gives you assurance, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "Don't worry, I shall give protection. If you think that by giving up all other duties you'll be sinful, so I give you assurance that I shall give you all protection." It is clearly stated. So this is the only duty, how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa and become His perfect devotee. This is the only duty.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?

Guest (2): Superior.

Prabhupāda: That's it. God is there, the dictionary is there. Sometimes pocket dictionary, sometimes big national encyclopedia dictionary. The Christians, they have no idea what is God. They believe in God, but if you ask them what is God, who is God, they cannot say. But we can say. That is the difference.

Woman guest (2): It is not as good.

Prabhupāda: So if you want more knowledge about God, then you must come to Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): That's how I believe.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So why don't you take him?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes, he's very willing to help anything along these lines. But he told me that once we have this Bhaktivedanta Institute and we have this done, he told us that he can find some means by which we can get some grant from the government. There are several funding agencies, and he's one of the important men for giving grants, this National Institute of Health, and he has several connections with the top rank...

Prabhupāda: Authorities. So keep connection with him.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he even wants to write some articles along these lines.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is favorable, keep in touch. (long pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One thing I wanted to ask was about the ārati, in offering ārati, now we blow the conchshell, but, ah, coming out the pūjārī from the altar, outside, when the pūjārī blows the conchshell, he does this, especially in Atlanta, and I think in other temples also I have seen, the pūjārī comes out of the...

Rūpānuga: Yes, he comes on this side of the altar and blows the conchshell. Is that all right? It should be behind the curtain or in front of the curtain?

Prabhupāda: Behind the curtain?

Rūpānuga: He should blow it behind.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Because I am the only one at the present moment intelligent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are still as dull (Prabhupāda laughs) as the karmīs. We would never have thought like that, Prabhupāda, about Arizona.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They mentioned that the pictures of Mars appear just like some of the picture of national parks in Arizona.

Prabhupāda: In other places they could not find, throughout the whole world, Arizona. That means the whole business is going on in Arizona.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that if this terrain were on the earth, we would immediately make it a national park, it looks just like one of the national parks.

Bali-mardana: In Arizona there is much government land. I passed through there recently. So there is good facility for them to make secretly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The moon business was done there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This means it's definitely a very calculated plot to cheat the public.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: What is that favor?

Rāmeśvara: They get special contracts, concession rates, and they are able to get their men appointed to important government positions. Also, in the national government, the government of the United States has to always borrow money from banks. There is something called National Debt. Hundreds of billions of dollars they owe the banks, the United States government, to support all their different programs.

Prabhupāda: National Debt.

Rāmeśvara: National Debt. So then the banks are able to use their power to get favors. "Oh, you want to borrow money? Then you must give me some favor." It's common knowledge.

Hari-śauri: Everyone's trying to blackmail everyone else.

Rāmeśvara: Some people say that there is a worldwide conspiracy of bankers, that they can control any government. They can cause a depression. They say that the bankers caused the depression in the 1920s, 1930s, just to increase their power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as you become dependent on me, I pay money, you can create some trouble for me. That is conspiracy(?). (pause) What is this, memory?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Looks like World War I.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the problems of life are more than simply those which we perceive?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise, what is the meditation? Think about something seriously, that is meditation. But if you have no important serious thinking, simply some imagination, how it will help you?

Devotee (1): Excuse me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This evening they are having one convention here, the Democratic National Convention. One of the two big political parties in the city, at one place called Madison Square Garden. And all the television and newspaper people in the whole country will be there. They're beginning at 8 o'clock this evening. So we want to send all the devotees in the temple on saṅkīrtana party there, because we feel that not only will the atmosphere become purified but also all the television cameras and all the newspaper people will interview our devotees and take their pictures, and they will be on television all over the country, simply because...

Prabhupāda: That is good cause.

Devotee (1): So we are requesting if all the devotees can possibly go?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): In that way they can all attend, if we have a big force...

Prabhupāda: At least, let them hear Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Detroit is... Detroit is also.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That park was a little dirty also.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Beer cans and...

Prabhupāda: This is national degradation. Every state full of garbage, litters. Not only now, I was living here (indistinct); the last 10 years. At least I have seen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One of the parents of the devotees who came the other day, they said they went to Vṛndāvana, and the gentleman who bought those pictures, photographs in Washington...

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He said he was surprised how clean Vṛndāvana was.

Prabhupāda: Many, even the poorest man's house you go in the village, you'll find everything neat and clean. At least the kitchen and eating, very neat and... Climatic condition is also nice. Almost all the year there is sunshine. Only during rainy season the sun is... That is also cooling a bit. After summer season, the rainy season covering, there is enjoyable cooling. Now everywhere... (end)

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Interviewer: Ninety-three, I see. Since then there has been a lot of interest in this country in Indian philosophy. Recent gurus have come, they have talked about meditation. My own view is that all of these things have influenced the American people, but in a kind of intellectual fad, a kind of fashion. And it seems to me that your intention and aim is not merely to cater to the mind, cater to reason, cater to the intellect, but to effect a kind of transformation of man himself. Is this why you have introduced a whole way of living, a whole way of life, is it? Am I right in suggesting that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a different platform of life—a spiritual. Generally people are on the material platform, in the bodily concept of life, and the whole world is going on with that wrong conception of life. Actually, as soon as we think that we are this body, we are immediately on the platform of animal life. So in the Bhāgavata it is stated, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is thinking, identifying himself with this body, and similarly with other references, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. In relation with body, we think of family, community, nationality. In this way our civilization is dog civilization. That is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Perhaps you have heard this word...

Interviewer: Yes.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Interviewer: The American. And about eighteen months ago or more, if I remember right, there was a film, a documentary, on your school in Texas, on the National Broadcasting Company's program, which was very hostile, if not vicious, attack on your whole movement, the rearing of the small children. So my question is, what is it that made you bring your movement into a culture and a religious ethos which is hostile to begin with, with most of your major assumptions?

Prabhupāda: So this is education. The Western people are not educated in the spiritual life. So our predecessors, our gurus, they are for educating people in the spiritual life. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, five hundred years ago, He advised Indians to go, first of all, make his life..., Indian should make his life perfect, and then he should go outside India and preach the perfectional life, how to become perfect in life. That was His mission. He said pṛthivīte āche yata. You understand Bengali?

Interviewer: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: You must purchase some copies. We shall send to India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at that picture, it's very clear. Should I read you this article?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This one is not, it's not bad, but it's not so accurate. "In size it was dwarfed by 'Operation Sale.' In popular concern it was outweighed by the Democratic National Convention. But for hundreds of Hare Kṛṣṇa followers, including many Indian immigrants to New York, yesterday's Ratha-yātrā festival was by far the most important event in an eventful month. Pulling three brightly-colored chariots down Fifth Avenue from Central Park to Washington Square, the religious group's adherents were celebrating one of the oldest holy days of the Indian calendar, the feast of Jagannātha, the Lord of the Universe, according to Kṛṣṇa doctrine. Most of the participants in the parade were young Westerners, followers from as far away as Caracas and Montreal. But the crowd included hundreds of Indians who brought the basic Kṛṣṇa faith with them from Bombay and Calcutta."

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: So let him come, join, and help. (laughter)

Translator: He says as much as he can he will.

Prabhupāda: Why as much? Why not fully? (laughter) The sooner he helps fully... (someone comes in) Oh.

Devotees: Jaya, haribol.

Prabhupāda: That Punjab National Bank has not sent the...

Jayatīrtha: Just like in India.

Prabhupāda: If possible, we can talk or... Is it possible to talk with the manager? Punjab National Bank?

Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes. Call him.

Prabhupāda: He was to send by registered post, but I have not received. You gave the address and everything.

Jayatīrtha: Oh, yes, I wrote it down.

Prabhupāda: Was he bona fide manager or not? (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: He didn't have his seal with him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Anyway, just inquire. These are our garden flowers.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Upon the body for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman. He has no intelligence that grass can be had anywhere, why I am dependent on this washerman to carry so much load. Lack of knowledge. Similarly, we are dependent on this body for lack of spiritual knowledge. As soon as he'll be enlightened by spiritual knowledge, then no more dependence. Therefore it is (indistinct). Otherwise, he'll remain like an ass perpetually dependent on the washerman. Mūḍha. We are thinking that without this body we cannot live. No. That is not the fact. We can live independently of this body. But our present position, because we have no spiritual culture, we are thinking that we are dependent on this body. Actually, we are not dependent. That will be revealed the more you advance in spiritual culture. What was his question before?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Is your question satisfied?

Peter: Yes. (pause)

Prabhupāda: It is something like gum? (?)

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Rascal, working, it is already being done, so what is your credit? We are working. You may work also, but what is your credit? Suppose if you become successful. What is your credit? It is already being done by the chicken. Why should you take the laureate title, Dr. such-and-such. Give it to the chicken. What they can do? Can they produce a seed of this, just like one seed produce so many things? Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Where is your credit? (break) Mines, as soon as it is national, nobody will take. In 1950, twenty-five years, twenty-six years ago, I was in Madras, Gauḍīya Maṭha, and there is a bus stop in front of the temple. So every bus was making some sound, huuuuuung, but when nothing was properly oiled. Machine is going to hell when it is managed by the government. As soon as there is government management, nobody wants. So long there is proprietorship, the proprietor takes care that "My machine will go bad if I don't take care." But who cares for that? That showing that so much oil purchased, who is going to check it? People have become dishonest. On account of godlessness, everyone is dishonest. He's dishonest to himself even. Doesn't take care of the body properly. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness. (break) ...in the mass of people amongst themselves. Do they fight very much amongst themselves?

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Guest: I think the temples are increasing, particularly in Germany, England, and I suppose in America as well.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in America we have got forty branches. Our philosophy is simple. We educate people to understand that there is God. This is a godless civilization. So we say that there is God. Try to understand, and love Him, that's all. This is our philosophy. Then you'll be happy. And so long you do not love God, you simply love dog, you'll never be happy. That is our philosophy. You have diverted your loving spirit to the dog. You change it. Instead of loving dog, you love God. Then dog will be loved and everyone will be loved. If you simply love dog, then your love will be simply in dog. But if you love God, then you'll love God and dog also. Just like you are eating. So the eatable is going to the stomach. If you distribute this eatable to the eyes, to the ears, to the nose—there are nine holes—it will be uselessly spoiled. And if you give this foodstuff to the stomach, the energy will be immediately distributed to the ears, to the eyes, to the nose, to the... Similarly, if you have got a propensity to love, you love God, your love will be distributed everywhere. And if you fix your love to the dog, then it is uselessly spoiled. That is going on. They have manufactured love for country, for this, that, so many things. But without love of God. Therefore the disturbance is going on. However big nationalist you may be, you cannot make happy anyone. That is not possible. Take for example our Mahatma Gandhi. He's recognized nationally, but he was killed by his countrymen. That's a fact. That means he could not make happy anyone. So we have got some loving propensity. If we love... That is our natural position. If we love God, then our love for others will automatically be done. And on account of loving God, our life will be perfect. What do you think of this philosophy? What do you think of this philosophy?

Guest: I think it's the supreme philosophy. It is basic philosophy which has been spoken, and unfortunately no practice, but it's a very good thought. It's a very big part and inject it again and revive it.

Prabhupāda: Love God.

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) That's all. Stop now.

Harikeśa: I was just going to say you should take massage now. I was just going to say it's time for massage.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: Can I tell you about the bank? Punjab National Bank is down the street, and we have our temple account there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Punjab National Bank is there.

Harikeśa: So how much do you want to deposit?

Prabhupāda: That I have to count.

Harikeśa: So we can do it any time. And before you arrange this Kumbhamela, it's very cold there.

Prabhupāda: Don't talk now.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, he'll collect. That's all.

Jayapatākā: Your program everyone is appreciating. When the newspapermen came out, at that time the black development officer he came there, and when the newspapermen were there he sat down with all the poor people and he took also and said, "This is very good. This is our national service." And they photographed.

Prabhupāda: "National Service"?

Jayapatākā: Yes, he mentioned.

Gargamuni: Still, though, because of these articles, it has been a little bit hard to secure money from people now because the people who are giving us money, they are under investigation also, the rich people. So when they see we are under investigation, oh, then they get afraid. They don't want to give.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gargamuni: Because we're under investigation and they're also being investigated, so they don't want to endanger... The government is every day raiding the houses of the rich people.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, what is the investigation?

Jayapatākā: They are being investigated for income tax.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is "theologians, scholars," and they, he said... Just see. Go on.

Maṇihāra: "At present there are 108 ISKCON centers in 30 countries throughout the world. These centers enable full-time members to live in close association, following the principles of Vedic life, and also provide a place where interested visitors can learn about the philosophy and culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and participate in its various functions. The basis of the movement is the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. The chanting of this mantra is the most recommended means for spiritual progress in this age, as it cleanses the mind and enables one to transcend the temporary designations of race, religion, and nationality and to understand one's true identity as an eternal spiritual being. In other words, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa one can directly experience self-realization and lead a blissful life. The devotees experience divine ecstasy in singing the holy names of God to the accompaniment of musical instruments.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: A very important article.

Gargamuni: A very good article.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it details everything. So you purchase some copies. We have to prepare...

Maṇihāra: "...of varying degrees of education and from many walks of life, students, teachers, scientists, servicemen, laborers, and professionals—indeed numerous race, creeds and nationalities—are attached towards it. The unifying characteristics that brings such diverse individuals to Kṛṣṇa consciousness are high ethical standards and a sincere desire to understand spiritual truths. To make a pleasure-loving and easy-going Western youth to shed his fashionable dress and make him give up his dearly cherished beefsteaks, wine and women, cannabis and LSD, and don the saffron robe, shave his head, hold the daṇḍa, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is no mean achievement. That ISKCON has made thousands of Western youths perform this seemingly impossible task is an eloquent testimony of the impact it has made on the life of the contemporary West. ISKCON does offer to the modern man a haven of refuge from the complexity of anxiety of present-day life. The society has indeed set before itself a noble and laudable ideal..."

Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?

Gargamuni: Yours.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: And many Indians, they have come from Africa.

Maṇihāra: Kenya.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: Uganda, especially.

Prabhupāda: Uganda. They got English citizenship. Now they cannot refuse them legally.

Maṇihāra: There's one group, the National Front group, they are trying to stop the citizenship. Because the government they are saying, "Yes, we will make you citizens if you come here, get business." And they are fighting against this.

Prabhupāda: They are refusing citizenship to the children. Children born of Indians in England, naturally they should be citizens. But now they're refused.

Hari-śauri: They're making all of them get six-month visas. That's partly the reason why India is now thinking to impose visa regulations on the British, on British people who come here.

Prabhupāda: Why they are doing that? Why not make world citizen? So much space. Let anyone go anywhere and live as he likes.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: We don't mind for that. We will give. And each will write and sign. (indistinct) And if you don't mind I will give one suggestion more. In the Indian national interest, in this country's interest, that I should prepare some interested members to see all over the world, our, this...

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Krishna Modi: So that... Let them ticket hire and air freight and all that should be paid by them. Let them support.

Prabhupāda: We have got branches in almost all important cities.

Krishna Modi: Ten or fifteen. Let them see so that they may be attracted and they may know each and every thing. Because here we know only by this thing. And then let us advertise about.

Prabhupāda: You take this paper. Make a list of important cities. Now suppose if you go from Delhi. So you can go first to Paris, Geneva, Rome, then London, Amsterdam, Stockholm. Then from London I think New York, Boston, Montreal, Canada. Then you go to the western side, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Vancouver. Go further, Honolulu.

Room Conversation -- September 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, we are sannyāsīs. We have no children. So why you are coming to us.

Akṣayānanda: They've never come fortunately.

Hari-śauri: They can only do that to their own citizens. They can only do that to Indian citizens.

Prabhupāda: Foreigners...

Akṣayānanda: So if I become Indian national, if I learn Hindi and become Indian national then they will approach me?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Akṣayānanda: That can never happen.

Harikeśa: I just heard that seventy thousand women and thirty-six thousand men.

Akṣayānanda: Nas-bandhi, they call it. Nas-bandhi.(?)

Hari-śauri: That was just in one state.

Harikeśa: In Delhi or U.P. or something.

Prabhupāda: Nas means veins.

Akṣayānanda: Means?

Prabhupāda: Veins, these, veins.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: United Nations which is practically demonstrated.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: ...is practical... (writing down)

Prabhupāda: Our movement, all over the world they have joined. Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, and Africans. All, everywhere.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "ISKCON has devotees in all parts of the world in all nationalities, including Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Samaḥ sarveṣu-bhūteṣu.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Should the government need any further information we will be more than happy and pleased to cooperate in all respects. With kindest regards. Your sincerely, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa dāsa, Secretary, ISKCON." It's okay?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is nicely done.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is a point by point reply. So now no one can open their mouth.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. It is very intelligent. (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And I thought we'd give both Blitz and ISKCON so you can see right there.

Prabhupāda: So if Mr. Modi discusses this it will be a great help.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.

Guest (1): That's true. Now in the British official records which they are publishing their secret papers of twenty-five years, that knowledge is very clearly that it was this armed fight of Indian National Army which convinced the British that they could not rule India with the Indian soldiers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.

Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.

Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."

Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They say that there is a tissue in the brain, they disturb with this religious idea. They say like that. And if that tissue is operated then there will be no more religion. They can do that. With a brain operation he'll forget willfully. These rascal, so-called scientists, they can do anything.

Jagadīśa: There are some psychiatrists who are on our side though. So if we can rally their support... The whole thing is so emotional and based on this strong appeal by the scientists and leaders to avoid religion because of the distraction from sense gratification, that all of the charges against us are completely baseless. There's no foundation. And if we just carefully and with calculation expose all of their nonsense accusations, it will be a great victory. Especially now it has become such a national issue that the leaders of society have to become involved, otherwise they'll become implicated. They have to come out and say whether they support the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: But they're supporting.

Jagadīśa: They must support it. Actually, I'm sure that they're astonished to find out how intelligent all the devotees are. The devotees are the most intelligent people.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Then, what other letters.

Room Conversation -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Where is that letter? Bank's letter.

Hari-śauri: From Gupta.

Prabhupāda: From Gupta, bank letter, Hyderabad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Which Gupta? The accountant of Punjab National...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have replied that letter on the other day. You do not know?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you want us to use that room? The room in which the bank is?

Jagadīśa: Oh yes. You mean about the rent?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jagadīśa: Yes, he said 250.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out that letter.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Finish this.

Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?

Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.

Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort. Then?

Pradyumna: Mayi cānanya-yogena...

Prabhupāda: Mayi cānanya-yogena bhaktir...

Pradyumna: Avyabhicāriṇī.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Central point is to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Pradyumna: "If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk, and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh, and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling, individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk." It's nice. You compare the warfield and the factory. I think people appreciate that. You compare the factory with the warfield.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So whatever thought comes to me, I discuss as far as possible. Why these things are... Therefore I want to organize this farm project. Let there be ideal. And it is becoming ideal in America. People are coming even from the school, college, they are coming to see New Vrindaban. And there was section where our enemies, they are not disturbing. So they are appreciating. Still we are not thoroughly organized, but still they're appreciating. They'll appreciate. One day will come they'll appreciate. And other parents, as they come and thank me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that..." Many parents came when I was in Los Angeles.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: Yes. This law is unconstitutional. I mentioned that there is a group of lawyers who are now organizing a committee nationwide to defend us, and they're going to prove that this law should be changed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the right cause. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They're already working on that. So then they say, "If you can do this to your son, then it will get national news media into the scene, and then people will learn about Hare Kṛṣṇa in particular, and all the effects of destructive cults on our youth." Then it says, "We have a legal packet which contains advice on the procedure and techniques for legal deprogramming."

Prabhupāda: So nowhere they have mentioned my name. That is good. (laughter) Otherwise, I would have been the target. That was very dangerous.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes... One of the general charges they make against all the different religious groups in America is that the leader is actually making a lot of profit for himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own fight. The thought-checking. "I am thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Why you are checking me?" This will be our defense. Do you think Kṛṣṇa-thinking is illegal and madness? Then you have to condemn the whole Hindu religion.

Trivikrama: Every religion.

Prabhupāda: No. Kṛṣṇa is taken as Hindu God. So I'm thinking of Hindu God. Why you are checking? (break) We are reading Bhagavad-gītā and killing Kṛṣṇa. This... Our national father is supposed to be a great devotee of Bhagavad-gītā, but Kṛṣṇa is killed. Why the government does not take it seriously? Gandhi wanted Bhagavad-gita as guide. Why they are not taking?

Dr. Patel: That is the Vaiṣṇava (Hindi).

Prabhupāda: That is all bogus. Bogus. Simply bogus. Politics. In Gandhi's āśrama I saw not a single Vaiṣṇava or Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Photographs, you mean to say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "He's Vaiṣṇava." Bogus.

Room Conversation -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: They cannot accuse us of brainwashing when we have so much artwork and publishing work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "We are giving culture, art, scientific knowledge. You are accusing. It is good for your nation. Think nationalwise what we are doing. We are not fools. They are also educated. They are coming from respectable family. Why you say that we have become befooled, brainwashed? We are not so fool that I shall be brainwashed by some Indian." Try to make compromise before them. Actually, this is a great culture.

Rāmeśvara: These are the heads for the Śeṣa-naga of this Mahā-Viṣṇu exhibit. They are made from rubber and they have all the details.

Prabhupāda: Acchā. How rubber you make mold?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You do yourself?

Rāmeśvara: They do, yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of rubber?

Rāmeśvara: It has something to do with the curves.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In clay, it cannot.

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Useless. I know these men. But you can get some customers. That's all right. Do they purchase or simply display?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. They purchase also.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Rāmeśvara: Actually in Belgium the National Museum has also set up in their main window a display of your books. And that's very good for a museum, because they do not sell there, but they are considering it so important and scholarly that they are displaying them for the public to see.

Prabhupāda: That is good recommendation, yes. If that museum is so important, so to keep our books there is prestigious. In Europe, America, it is going on nice. Now here we have to take advantage of these papers. So I have already given Jagadīśa the idea. Now you immediately put into effect. You keep that also with your papers, this format. Yes.

Hari-śauri: Will there be an address on the advertisement for people to write to?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Book Trust office.

Prabhupāda: So you take your rest now. Then you shall come and go on talking.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I am not for home. I am for the whole world. It is not... I have no such idea (laughs) that "I shall exploit American men and money for India." That is not my ambition. For the benefit of the whole world.

Gurudāsa: You are doing "Back to Home" bill.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jaya. But actually I am exploiting American men and money, from this point of view. But what can I do? I do not make any national distinction, either American or Indian.

Gurudāsa: You are not exploiting...

Rāmeśvara: Spiritual Communism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudāsa: They were exploiting; you are uplifting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is train?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Gurudāsa: There's no hurry. Also, if they could only spend their money in England, it means they wouldn't care so much for the country. They wouldn't care for India so much if they were going to spend the money in England.

Prabhupāda: No, practically I am spending America's money in a proper way. They would have used it in a different way.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Jayapatākā: You are getting everyone to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yadaiva śraddhāiva(?). Some way or other, let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that is being done, whole countrywide. It has become a national show. (laughter)

Gargamuni: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Hari-śauri: Every town and village.

Jayapatākā: If you ask them who is Vivekananda, no one knows. But everyone knows Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: We are known as "Hare Kṛṣṇas," and sometimes "Kṛṣṇas."

Hari-śauri: They call us the "Harries."

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Acchā?

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Some places they're actually trying to increase, in some places.

Gargamuni: Yes. In Australia.

Hari-śauri: In Australia they've only got thirteen million people in the whole country, and it's bigger than America. And in Canada also, they only have a few million. And in Russia they don't have such a big population for the size of the land. But because they've set up these national divisions, then in one place they're killing the population...

Prabhupāda: No... Vedic process is that unless you create nice children or you can give them protection from death, don't create children. Brahmacārī. Remain brahmacārī. That is sensible, that "Why shall I beget children like cats and dogs if I cannot take care of them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. What is this? I create and kill? Most uncivilized. Don't create. That is civilized man. "If I cannot take care of them properly, I'll not create children."

Gargamuni: They're not educating the population in brahmācārya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: Therefore these beggars are there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is gentlemanly, that "Why shall I take responsibility of family if I cannot maintain them properly?" That is very gentlemanly. That is civilization. "And I accept so-called family for sense gratification; I cannot maintain them and kill them"—what is this? Is that civilization? They should be ashamed to be called civilized men. Here is civilized way. Preach this because the Vedic civilization is real civilization. "You are not civilized. You have killed Jesus Christ who instructed, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should be ashamed of your present civilization. It is... Brainwash is required."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is the judgment of the Chief Justice. He's not ordinary man.

Rāmeśvara: "...and the ultimate destiny of this universe." Then there is that other quote. This is also very important, by the Deputy Director of the Lok Sabha Secretariat.

Gargamuni: That Subhramaniam.

Rāmeśvara: He's a big man. And this is the national government.

Gargamuni: No, the central. Lok Sabha is like the Parliament.

Prabhupāda: Lok Sabha is Parliament. Lok Sabha means Parliament.

Rāmeśvara: Congress of the National Government.

Gargamuni: Yes. No, no, no. Central government. Yes, what you say is national.

Rāmeśvara: "This is a rare opportunity for people and leaders of every country, every race, and every community in the world to know and understand the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I would say that this encyclopedia of spiritual knowledge is more important and fundamental than the encyclopedia of any other branch of knowledge and should therefore find a rightful place not only in the public and private libraries, big and small, not only in educational and other institutions, but also in every household, and above all, in the hearts and minds of every man and woman."

Prabhupāda: And he is not ordinary man.

Conversation During Massage -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: No one believes it. Whatever they write, no one believes that it is the truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their opening a showroom is one of the item of their propaganda. But we cannot make that, make an experiment. No, that is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: It is commonly known that the Russians are spending more money on national defense, weapons...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: ...guns, than anyone else in the world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They are building up huge arsenals of weapons.

Prabhupāda: That is their only business. Plunder from everywhere and spend it for their own defense. The Jawaharlal Nehru and company, they supported Russia to save themselves from America. Otherwise there was no purpose.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Well, that is... If you are humanitarian, you are working for humanity, and why don't you teach them? Why do you not give the opportunity. What is the missionary? You have got so many missionaries. Why don't you feed them by giving them opportunity. They want. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). That is Vaiṣṇava. Engage everything, everyone, to good work. That is missionary. "We, you..." There is no such question, "we." We combining together, that is "we." We are all Kṛṣṇa's sons. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Their whole philosophy is... Oh, it is very nice beach. All mango trees... Don't think in national terms. That is very heinous.

Satsvarūpa: There is one book on modern religions, and he discusses yourself, Your Divine Grace, on one page, and he says that your politics are naive. He said, "It is naive, too innocent to think that we can unite the world this way under God."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: I was going to purchase ticket, Māgha Melā. He said "No, you don't go. That's it."

Bhāgavata: Then there is a lake over here and there is animals, birds, different types of birds.

Prabhupāda: Oh, zoological.

Bhāgavata: Yes, zoological. All types. And on this side they have the lions, tigers, bears... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the forest and see actually. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. In Africa they're open.

Bhāgavata: Yes, in that national park in Nairobi.

Prabhupāda: The dog also knows that he's in the cage.

Bhāgavata: This is an Indian lion, from India. They have captured in India. And they also have African lions in here.

Gurukṛpa: Gujarati. It's a Gujarati.

Bhāgavata: From the forest of Katiwan.(?) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...monkey and cow. Rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. Lion in the rajo-guṇa, monkey in the tamo-guṇa and cow in the sattva-guṇa.

Hari-śauri: What about the cows that they slaughter? Do they have to continue in a cow birth?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (1): Had to go.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. They knew that "We are not going. So long the nonviolence is there, we are safe." They were occasionally calling Gandhi and patting him: "Sir, why you are doing this? Let us compromise," because he knew that "So long nonviolence will continue, we are safe." But Subash Bose's protest was that "If you don't take to violence, then these people are never going." That was the difference of opinion between Subash Bose and... So when he was taking the Congress in hand, Gandhi became so angry that Subash Bose, being elected President, Gandhi did not attend the Congress. So other workers, he requested Subash Bose that "You resign. Otherwise Gandhi will not."(?) So he resigned. He done right. And then he thought that "Unless I go out of India, I cannot do anything." Then he managed to go out of India, and Singapore, he... Indians with their help and Hitler's intervention, he organized this INA. And when the Britisher's saw that "Now the soldiers are joining national movement, then we cannot rule over," then they decided, "Let us make some compromise, and as much possible, do harm. Divide this India, Pakistan and India, and go away." This is fact.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight. So they have gained. You have not gained. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. They made so bitter relationship that they will perpetually fight. That is Gandhi's qualification. They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No. St. Julia's. All Indian students, all very rich man's sons. I sent my sons to English, St. Mary's High School and St. Teresa's school. Learned English very nicely. Scottish Churches College. I was educated in Scottish... All our professors European, Englishmen and Scotsmen.

Satsvarūpa: I think you wrote somewhere that Sanskrit should be the national...

Prabhupāda: That is very difficult. No, I... They wanted to make a national language. There was fight, great fight. Therefore I suggested, "Why not make Sanskrit language?" Everyone will adore.

Satsvarūpa: Because English is the language of the invaders; Sanskrit...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I have no objection, English. But if they wanted that national language, why not take Sanskrit? I am international. I don't believe in this national or statewise. I never believed. This is very good idea, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). God is the proprietor. He is the original father. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Why do they not take this philosophy? They have attempted this United Nation organization. And where is the philosophy how to make one state? That is cheating them. Why not make one state?

Hari-śauri: They actually don't desire that.

Prabhupāda: No.

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Hm. So there was the minister Nizamuddin, I think, he helped him to go out. He was going for evening walk with police force and other. So it became accustomed. Police became lenient, in the meantime slipped. And in a dress of a Kābuli, Kābuli-wālā, Pāṭhan he crossed India. In this way he went there.

Bhāgavata: I heard he took the dress of a Muslim?

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is called... Yes. This is called pāṭhan. So after going outside India, he organized this INA, Indian National Army. And Hitler helped him. Tojo also wanted to help him, but he had a plan.

Bhāgavata: Different motive. So Hitler, he had no...

Prabhupāda: No Hitler actually helped him, all the soldiers. And then the Sikh soldiers and Gurkha soldiers voluntarily surrendered to join INA. And this information obliged the Britishers to go away. Then "Now the army is joining national movement, so there is no hope." The Gandhi's noncooperation, the clerks' noncooperation the, some of these teachers' noncooperation what do they care for? But when they saw that "The soldiers are now going to join this non..." Gandhi diagnosed the disease rightly, that "The Britishers are here on account of our cooperation. Without this cooperation, they'll go away." That's a fact. So his noncooperation movement was... It was a good trick, but actually he did not succeed. And this movement succeeded. That "Now he's organizing Indian soldiers for national movement. There is no chance."

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's a fact. Most people are just... They're in ignorance.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The human psychology is the same for man, woman. That's all. Amongst the lower animals you see. The pigeons, they are the same. The sparrow, they are the same everywhere. The squirrels, the same, the same. So why men should be different?

Hari-śauri: It's artificial, the differences they've created themselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: On national basis.

Prabhupāda: In Russia I have seen. The people are the same.

Hari-śauri: Yes. Common mass of people are always...

Prabhupāda: Simple.

Hari-śauri: I think I'll see what's happening with the van.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If I require, I'll take. So Gandhi discovered, and the discovery was there Surendranath Ban... That they're exploiting us, so noncooperate. They are ruling over us by our cooperation, so let us noncooperate." But that is a foolish policy. Poverty-stricken country, how they can noncooperate? That was not successful, but this program, Subhash Bose's tit-for-tat, military, that was successful. They're keeping our men as soldiers and police, and by their strength they're ruling over India. And Subhash Bose made a plan—the soldiers and police will noncooperate. They'll join his INA. And when they began to join Indian National Army, these intelligent Britishers could understand, "Now it is no more possible. With whose cooperation, we shall kick?" Then they made a friendly settlement. Friendly means "Divide it so that they'll perpetually fight, and let us go."

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is wanted. (laughs) That is wanted. We want that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man is very prominent, Harvey Cox. He's the most prominent theologian, I think, in the United States, or one of the...

Brahmānanda: Harvard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very big man. He is very active. He's organizing everything, he and that Dean Kelly. What is his position?

Satsvarūpa: He's National Council of Churches.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He's the head of the National Council of Churches, this Dean Kelly, and he is a very big proponent of our movement also.

Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa is sending so many men.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, we're going to win. But actually it is a dangerous situation, how the government is becoming so callous in the United States.

Brahmānanda: They compare it to Russia, because in Russia the system is if someone goes against...

Prabhupāda: State.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: What happened?

Brahmānanda: They have banned our Society and also Guru Maharaj-ji.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And jehovah's Witnesses.

Brahmānanda: Because these societies go against the Argentine culture, morals, and nationhood.

Prabhupāda: So we have to close.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's already closed.

Brahmānanda: And they seized our books.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Books were seized for twenty thousand dollars worth of books.

Brahmānanda: But there has been some reports in the newspapers that Argentina is now a military dictatorship, and it's very bad place. Many people are being taken and shot regularly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now... But also in Venezuela, there, now the government wants to audit the accounts. They are asking for a public auditing of our books.

Prabhupāda: Public property?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Audit. Audit.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tripurāri: "Hare Kṛṣṇas think the moon is made of jewels."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They asked that to Balavanta on national television, to explain how it is possible.

Prabhupāda: So how to rectify it? They have not gone to the moon.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Balavanta told them. He said, "You have your ideas, and we have ours. We're not stopping you from having yours, so why do you stop us from having ours? As far as we're concerned, we have as much evidence as you. Your authorities say you went, and our authorities say you didn't go. And anybody can make a movie to show that you went to Jupiter or Saturn or any other planet. Movies..., they can make King Kong. So we don't accept it, but we don't stop you from having your beliefs. But don't force us to say, 'Yes, you went to the moon.' " He answered nicely.

Prabhupāda: No, actually when there is some news about the moon planet, I personally did not go with him. So how shall I believe him? Come to practical point of view. I did not go. You publish something, news. Why I accept it? If you say that "I did not go," er, "I did not see," that is everything. We believe some paper, that's all. So why shall we not believe the Vedic literature?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at the difference of the writers. The writer of the newspaper is a fool.

Prabhupāda: Vedic literature is so authoritative. It has been accepted by the ācāryas.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got money.

Ādi-keśava: They have big money. I can show you in this book. We made one chart of their organization.

Hari-śauri: Page fifteen, seventeen.

Ādi-keśava: It shows that they have a big organization. See, they have all these committees. And there's a lot of money involved. There are a lot of people with big money. Starting at the top, they've made a national organization. I know all these men. I've spoken to all these people. They're big demons, but they have a lot of money, so they're fighting us in all the different courts. But so far they have not taken it beyond the lower courts. When we take it to the higher courts we always win. For instance, just before I left, we took two cases to the Federal Court. Immediately we won. In one day they gave us the case. My case is in a very low court. If it goes to a high-court we will win. So we are wanting to do this, but that means again that if we were to do it, only certain lawyers can enter into the Federal Court. Not just any lawyer can argue there, because you have to have some...

Prabhupāda: So you have to pay. What can be done?

Ādi-keśava: So if you're willing to do that, I will do it.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Third World? We have no place there? We want Fourth World? Or what is that? (laughter)

Tripurāri: I think there is more animal slaughter in Argentina than anywhere in the world.

Prabhupāda: Most sinful.

Ādi-keśava: That is the national industry there, cattle slaughter.

Prabhupāda: It has become national industry in Africa also.

Hari-śauri: And Australia...

Prabhupāda: Australia.

Hari-śauri: ...New Zealand.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the world is suffering, so much sinful activities. The greatest sinful activity is cow slaughter, and they are committing. They do not know what will be the result. Such brain, stool, stool-bound brain. Thorough overhaul is required. That we are doing. Otherwise the stool cannot be cleansed. (Bengali) (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is a good chance of United Nation-Indian, Americans, Englishmen, German, all mixed together.

Jayatīrtha: Our Amsterdam temple has about sixty devotees, and they're from seventeen different countries, seventeen different nationalities are represented in the temple. There's nowhere else where so many different nationalities are living together.

Prabhupāda: No. This is the nucleus of United Nations, real. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1), to understand everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the basic principle of United Nation. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In that stage there can be equality. Otherwise not.

Pañcadraviḍa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the text on the back of this magazine here, the back advertisement for the Gītā...

Prabhupāda: Here?

Pañcadraviḍa: ...is very nice wording. It's referring to India.

Prabhupāda: This. Oh, yes. This is the fact.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How many standing orders?

Gargamuni: Well in Rangoon I went to the head of the Oriental Studies. They ordered all of Bhāgavatam. Then there's the National Library. They want. Then the National Trading Corporation wants to import our books and sell to the various libraries there. We met... We were only there four or five days, but we met so many people of different types of departments who want the books. Then in Bangkok I met the head of the Department of Philosophy. He ordered the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then I met the head of Eastern Languages...

Prabhupāda: Did you go to our center, Bangkok?

Gargamuni: No. I didn't have the address. And I heard they were giving up the house because it is not... They have to...

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Sometimes we see that an Indian, he's living at least a more saintly life than the life that we have led, but sometimes we are more qualified to hear than some Indian men.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because you have got qualification-dhīra. What I say, you hear with patience. And those who are adhīra, they cannot. Sometimes... Aye. (someone enters) You can come this side. (break) Two words is very important. One is, that in the beginning one must be dhīra, not restless. Restlessness is for the animal, or a child. He is restless. He cannot understand. An animal, a cat and dog... Sometimes they remain very silent before the master, but not always. Their habit is not silent. So this understanding, that "I am not this body," is not possible for, say, restless person, that "I am not this body." It is specially mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, dhīra. He must not be a restless animal, always busy. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy. But as soon as the monkey comes, everyone knows he is very busy. He can jump very nicely. And immediately they take a stick, "Get out! Get out! Get out!" Busy fool. Fool, if he remains little silent, so he does less harm. But if he is busy, he is more harmful. So this is the position at the present moment, that people are kept in the animal civilization and they are busy. So they are creating more harm. It is not for the good of the society. They are creating more harm. This dehātma-buddhi is the conception of the animals.

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

So this dehātma-buddhi, "I am this body," is very strong at the present. They think dehātma-buddhi, extended, is very good. And that I was speaking, that a person is taking care of his own body or own dress, but they say, "We shall not take care of my body but for others body also, my son's body, my grandson's body, my relative's body." So that means extending the activities of taking care of the dress. So that I said, that a washerman is taking care of many people's dress, but that does not mean that he is very elevated man. He is nothing but a washerman. But people are interested to take care of the dress. This body is described in the Bhagavad-gītā as dress. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). We are changing the dress. And so long we are interested with dress of the body, not of the body, so the person who has got this body will remain animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So people are not prepared even to hear about this distinction, that "I am not this body; you are not this body." The modern civilization has trained up, educated people, in such a way that the more you think yourself, "I am this body—'I am American,' 'I am Indian,' 'I am brāhmaṇa,' 'I am this, I am that' "—and you feel and act like that and create trouble like that, then you are called civilized. Is it not? This is the defect of modern civilization. The more you keep yourself in the darkness of accepting this body as yourself-national feeling, social feeling, family feeling, community feeling-then... But we are speaking from a different platform. Our movement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So Kṛṣṇa begins His teaching from a different platform. He begins from the platform of the soul. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. His teaching to Arjuna begins, first of all convincing him that "You are not this body." And He's describing the nature of the soul-na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate—in so many ways, adāhyo 'yam aśoṣyo 'yam, so many. Find out this verse. Who will find out? Hm.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Deprogramming. The Indian government are taking seriously, yes, that is private arrangement—that "Why they are opposing this movement? We allow Christian to come here. Why not Kṛṣṇa?" The Consulate General, ambassador, has taken.

Harikeśa: It is very important.

Prabhupāda: They are taking it from national point of view. That is... Anyway, there is some defense from government side, their representative attending every court case. Yes?

Hari-śauri: Yes. Every hearing.

Prabhupāda: Ādi-keśava told me.

Harikeśa: In Germany the court case is fixed in November now. They have made a date.

Prabhupāda: In the meantime you overflood with books.

Harikeśa: (laughs) Yes. An amazing thing is happening now. Used to be...

Prabhupāda: They are delaying.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Rāmeśvara: The whole city is managed by criminals. But they have given us permission to sell books in the airport.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice.

Satsvarūpa: Then... Also, Rāmeśvara permission to open in the summer to cover these national parks: Yosemite, Yellowstone and Mount Rushmore. In South America, Pañcadraviḍa Swami permission for the next year to open Monterrey, Mexico; Guatemala, and Panama; Medellin, Columbia. Hṛdayānanda dāsa Gosvāmī, permission for a few cities in Brazil, Bolivia, and Valencia, Venezuela. In Europe, Bhagavān dāsa given permission to open centers in Barcelona, Spain; Lisbon, Portugal; Milan, Italy; and Harikeśa Swami has already started centers in Berlin, Zurich, Helsinki, Hamburg and... Rockshaw?

Harikeśa: Warsaw.(?)

Satsvarūpa: Permission given for Norway, Vienna and Copenhagan for the next year. Brahmānanda Mahārāja has been given permission to turn the following preaching centers into temples with Deities: Mombassa and Mauritius, and permission for a new center in Lagos.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nigeria?

Hṛdayānanda: Preaching center in Nigeria. Richest African country.

Satsvarūpa: Bali-mardana has been given permission to move the Adelaide center to the Australian farm. Ātreya Ṛṣi permission to open centers in Karachi and Istanbul. Jayapatākā Mahārāja permission to open Panihati and Dacca. And Haṁsadūta Mahārāja in South India, Bangalore, Madras, Kodaikanal, Colombo in Ceylon, and Kathmandu, Nepal; and Goa.

Prabhupāda: Lage laghu.(?) Very good.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not understand the standpoint. We have to understand the active principle of life. So why other scholars will disagree? Then he is not a scholar. Let us come to the scientific point of view. We have to understand what is the active principle within this machine. It is equally important to all scholars. That we have to preach. They may say that "Your Kṛṣṇa; our this." No. That knowledge Kṛṣṇa is giving for everyone. And it is accepted by everyone. They are Christians. How they are accepting? I am not bribing them.

Mr. Koshi: They are all nationalities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone. Any scientific man, any advanced in education...

Mr. Koshi: Have you put any conditions?

Prabhupāda: No conditions. You try to understand. Within this body the active principle is there. Where is condition? You try to understand if you have knowledge.

Mr. Koshi: But a renunciation of something?

Prabhupāda: Again why you are coming to renunciation? First of all come to the knowledge. First of all accept that within this body there is the active principle. Then whether it is required renunciation, no renunciation, that we shall discuss later on. First of all, we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says in the very beginning, that asmin dehe dehī. Within this body, there is the owner of the body. First of all try to understand. He is speaking on that subject matter. Dehī. Not on the deha. People should understand first of all this science. Then talk of other things. When we say "Two plus two equal to four," no scholar will deny it. "Yes, it is four." Nobody, no rascal will say, "No, it is five or three." Nobody will disagree, if it is science, if it is mathematics. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says within this body, the owner of the body. Who will deny it? Let them accept it. Then we shall discuss what is that owner, what is the nature of that owner. First of all let them accept it. They are accepting the machine as everything.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Amritsar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.' " (break) "The story of the vast quantity of harijana in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The harijana problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."

Prabhupāda: On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion." It will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to write a letter to the editor?

Prabhupāda: Not editor. The person who is the leader. Means the harijana movement. They are feeling frustration. Now we can give them the light.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This will be amended now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Explaining one of the main objects of the 43rd amendment, he said that the articles... He said that the 43rd constitution amendment bill was significant in that it sought to remedy the excesses permitted by the previous ministry. He said that the article 31d of the 42nd amendment which provided the power in the legislature to make laws for the prevention and prohibition of antinational activities remained, and the previous ministry continued. There is no doubt that laws would have been passed in regard to illegal national activities. It was apprehended with reason that those laws would provide for preventative detention among other things as a remedy. It says there was no need for introducing article 31d unless it was to enlarge the field of preventative detention and enforcing it. Since there was enough laws already on the statue books which dealt with activities specifically detailed in article 31d and by trial in the ordinary manner."

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Abnormal. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Upset in Fiji. The Fijian government formed by the National Federation Party, which draws its support mainly from the people of Indian origin, will have to tread warily if it is to avert racial tension in the islands. It was by no means easy, even for the multiracial alliance party which hitherto ruled the South Pacific republic, to maintain harmony between the people of Indian origin who form fifty-one percent of the population, and the indigenous Melanesians. Its leader and the former Prime Minister Ratu Sir Pamish Nara had to strain every nerve to keep the extremist Melanesians in check."

Prabhupāda: The Prime Minister is lightie?

Upendra: Yes. He is very educated. He is half. All the ministers are, those natives are light-skinned. They are from a particular island group, mixed. They are very intelligent and polite. The other natives are darker and more extremists. But this extremist agitation is, they say, is instigated by the Europeans, who keep the Indians and natives apart, because the natives have all the land, and this is what the Europeans are interested in. So they instigate it.

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Paropakāra. They have got this opportunity how to get out of this entanglement of being covered by the material body, and they are not being given the chance. And we are giving the chance so easy. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... (CC Antya 20.12). Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni, the same thing. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. This repetition of birth and death, it is the blazing fire of material existence. So when one understands that "What is my position?" then he'll do this, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, clear understanding, "Oh..." What is this nonsense nationality? Today I am Indian; tomorrow I am a dog. Where is my nation? Where is my family? Where is my father? Where is my mother? So to become mad after these things is my business, or to get out of this material entanglement is my business? And we have got so much facilities. Kṛṣṇa is instructing, Himself. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching personally how to live. And we are not taking advantage? What a suicidal policy. And they are becoming leader, Jayapataka Narayan and this... What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And Morarji is very religious person.

Mr. Rajda: Yes, he is a highly religious man.

Prabhupāda: So why not attempt? At least keep an ideal institution. Just like for technical knowledge, if there is a good medical college any part of the world, people go there without any consideration of nationality or anything. Similarly let there be an ideal institution in India so that the whole world will come in there.

Mr. Rajda: We had those universities, Taka(?), Silandar(?), and Narandhara...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Rajda: ...in ancient days.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Rajda: And people from all over the world were coming.

Prabhupāda: So why don't you invite now?

Mr. Rajda: Quite.

Prabhupāda: We go there for imitating their technology. But who comes here to learn something?

Mr. Rajda: Quite right, quite right.

Prabhupāda: But we have got. The example is already set up. These boys, they have not come here for learning your cycle manufacturing. They have enough of it.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: About the land and cows, this is Bhagavad-gītā, mentioned, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Never recommends factory. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). So there is no question of giving protection to the cows if it gives milk only. No. Go-rakṣya. There must be protection to the cow. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even the cows pass urine and stool, that is beneficial. And if it gives milk, then there is no question. Hm. What is that?

Lokanātha: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly King Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and the war fields at the whims of a particular man?

It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should man not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which, combined together, can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes. Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The King at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality, fraternity and nonviolence?

Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to a so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less-than-animal man.

We are all creatures of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Lord Himself is the seed-giving father and material nature is the mother of all living beings in all shapes. Thus mother material nature has enough foodstuff both for animals and for men, by the grace of the Father Almighty, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The human being is the elder brother of all other living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the Almighty Father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."

Prabhupāda: Simply fighting. They are not peaceful. That's all. Where is peace? You'll be surprised. During gas scarcity the gas was being supplied in Honolulu. This was in our presence. So the gas supply, whatever they had, distributed, and they had one sign board, "No more gas." So next man was so angry that he shot him dead. Just see. He had no more gas; he cannot supply. He became so much infuriated that he shot him dead. This is the result of this modern motorcar civilization. He thought that "Gas will not be supplied. Then I am gone. I am finished. So kill this man." This is education.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: I was there for six years. Over six years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Guest (1): He speaks very fluent Russian also.

Prabhupāda: Ah, must speak. I have been also in Moscow. In Moscow, I went there. I was walking in that Red Square. Lenin's tomb is there. I was putting on the National Hotel.

Dr. Sharma: National Hotel. That is quite opposite. My brother requested me to see you personally, Mr. K. Gopalan from Hyderabad, the Joint Commissioner for Improvements.

Prabhupāda: Oh. He is in Moscow?

Dr. Sharma: No, no. He was in Hyderabad, Joint Commissioner for Religious Improvements, Mr. K. Gopalan. He asked me. He is my brother. He is my eldest brother. He has asked me to see you personally. I have been sincerely endeavoring to see you for quite some time, but I did not have the fortune to see you. Today I am lucky.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So then it is very difficult.

Guest (2): Only the government can do it. Any government, even if it is a small country. Therefore I said political power plays an important role in this. Whether it is Nepal, whether it is in Indian, certain circumstances, one should meet on a national level. (indistinct) We can have a small function and speak to the Prime Minister.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One group that can go is our theater group.

Dr. Sharma: Yes, that may be right. Theater group go to show that it is an Indian culture program and try to sell the most of this Bhagavad-gītā and Rāmāyaṇa and Bhāgavatam. Because they are themselves, Russians, have come with a troupe and played Rāmāyaṇa in India.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Sharma: And to do that exist on the political gimmick to show their Indo-Soviet relations, to increase it. We would send some of the people from here...

Prabhupāda: You note it. We shall give stress. We can make caitanya-līlā, kṛṣṇa-līlā, like that. We have got everything.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: A good opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And he expressed very frankly and very honestly... In fact, Girirāja was talking to (indistinct) yesterday, Girirāja and myself, and every moment, every word, every mood that he expressed was a genuine example of how this material world, we are suffering so much. He said that he had everything in life that he wanted to, in material possession. He has all the qualifications, and he represented national and international levels, the different planning commissions, the chairman of so many organizations, but he said...

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He's seventy-three years old. He's very old, but still, he's very active, in good health. And he expressed that he's missing something. So we told that it is ripe time for to be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he comes to a point that he wanted to come and stay in the temple for a week just to learn more and try to get away from all the...

Prabhupāda: So this is very nice. Bring him and give him a nice accommodation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he came here yesterday.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the lift wasn't working, so he couldn't come upstairs. That's why Karttikeya left early, because he was waiting downstairs.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That it is a fact.

Mr. Dwivedi: I could not appreciate him.

Prabhupāda: No, it is a fact. When Subhas Bapu... He was always pleading, "Gandhiji, these people are not to go by your nonviolence, and we have to take to violence." Gandhi would say, "I will not fight. Sva-rājya." Then Subash went outside India. Somehow or other, he organized. And when the Britishers saw that "The military force, they are joining national movement. Now it is no hope..." Because the Gurkhas and the Sikhs and other military races, they were cooperating with the Britishers, therefore they were maintaining. They could not bring soldiers from their country. And when they saw, "The soldiers are joining Subhas," they left. "Now independence." This is a fact. Otherwise Gandhi he was patting, "Mahatmaji, you are such a great man."

Mr. Dwivedi: In the... I used to meet in northly country in the late 20's, 1929 and '30, when Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru found League for Independence of India. Subhas Bapu was the second.

Prabhupāda: I was present in that meeting.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Trivikrama: Bangladesh.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Today you are European. Tomorrow you become Indian. And today you are man; tomorrow you become a dog. If you have got love for your country, but your work is doggish, then you become a dog. And who cares for the "national" dog? The street dog and the... At night he takes charge of the street. Nobody has appointed him, but he takes charge, and whole night: "Gow! Gow!" If somebody, new man, enters the neighborhood, "I am in charge." You see? "Why you have entered?" So this is going on. "I am leader of this country." So what is this civilization? Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the leader." He says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: (BG 5.29) "I am the leader. I am the friend, well-wisher of everyone." And if a dog says, "I am the leader. I am the well-wisher," so which way we shall go? I shall accept the dog as leader and well-wisher or Kṛṣṇa? Boliye. A barking dog or Kṛṣṇa?

Indian man (2): Naturally Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And He says, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām: "I can adjust things." So we are not taking. (Hindi) From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gītā, everything is perfectly there. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehāntare. If you simply take, accept Kṛṣṇa as He says, then what is result? Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Punar janma, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), but one who has understood Kṛṣṇa perfectly—it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned—if we understand Kṛṣṇa, then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). So that is the real problem. We are solving problems, this problem, that problem, that... They are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem because the fly is made for that purpose. How... You cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:

German man (1): (German) The very beginning center was in the Batche Schlossen(?), Batche(?) Street, a very small temple. And then it changed to bigger and..., in Hamburg.

Prabhupāda: There is tramways.

German man (1): (German) I left Phalia(?) four years here and become a national (indistinct). (conversation with German devotee in background) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why did you come to India?

German man (1): For, for spiritual purpose.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

German man (1): Sādhana, tapasya.

Prabhupāda: And what is the aim of tapasya?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the aim of tapasya?

German man (1): The aim of tapasya?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The goal.

German man (1): To see how is the one in the many.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To see the one in the many.

Prabhupāda: Very good. And what is that one?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda asked, "What is that one?"

German man (1): The one is this part in you and me which is together, and the many are you and me and him and we all.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: (reading) "Regulative rains not only help ample production of food grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people want cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial, materialist's life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally?"

Prabhupāda: Like hog. (break)

Yaśomatīnandana: Why don't you still take advantage?

Prabhupāda: Still you can take advantage of it. What you are doing? Here is this nice statement. Here is the thought.

Yaśomatīnandana: Another, Home Minister, also is saying these same things, discourage the factories and industrialization...

Prabhupāda: This is ruination. Factory means ruination. Factory means destruction. And agriculture means construction. The father is going to the factory, and the children are starving-destruction. Go on reading.

Yaśomatīnandana: "The human being is the elder brother of all other living beings." (break)

Prabhupāda: Satkāra. Now, whatever you...

Yaśomatīnandana: Practical solution for all problems.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a newsletter issued by the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals. They just had an international meeting in Japan this April, and I am a member, so they send me a newsletter, national newsletter. They have interesting schemes. The next meeting is in 1981 in Israel. I was actually thinking of presenting a paper in the last meeting, but time was little short for us. So we are thinking of presenting papers in that international meeting. It is a whole scientific community all over. So I thought it will be very interesting to present our viewpoint and make it very strong. We are very small in number, but our thoughts will be very challenging to all of them, especially mathematics and physical chemistry together. They also have a journal, the Journal of the Origin of Life, and there the write only about chemicals. Everything is just like a story. So we make it a fairy tale, the molecular fairy tale, and it's very appropriate. All are stories.

Prabhupāda: They invented stories for going to the moon planet.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they're making stories about everything.

Prabhupāda: A small toy sputnik, background, a big picture, and photograph.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is also very nice for the bank. I mean, they get a whole front courtyard.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice, wonderful. They are... In this side, they can make counter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Plenty of space for a bank.

Prabhupāda: I'll talk with...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually even Punjab National Bank downtown doesn't have this big an office.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guṇārṇava: It's bigger than the downtown office of Punjab National Bank.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the banks.

Guṇārṇava: It's big.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him come. I shall talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. Do you want us... Is there anything else to see...?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all.

Prabhupāda: And very nice.

Guṇārṇava: Jaya. Glories to Prabhupāda.

Gurukula Inspection -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is also very nice for the bank. I mean, they get a whole front courtyard.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice, wonderful. They are... In this side, they can make counter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Plenty of space for a bank.

Prabhupāda: I'll talk with...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually even Punjab National Bank downtown doesn't have this big an office.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guṇārṇava: It's bigger than the downtown office of Punjab National Bank.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the banks.

Guṇārṇava: It's big.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him come. I shall talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. Do you want us... Is there anything else to see...?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all.

Prabhupāda: And very nice.

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Surendra Kumar: ...that you must make an application of forty to fifty people who Prabhupāda wants that they should be given permanent nationality.

Prabhupāda: So keeping...

Surendra Kumar: Also that we will consider.

Prabhupāda: ...Surendraji here, you make this application draft. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Surendra Kumar: And I and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, we can meet any number of times.

Prabhupāda: So you go with him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I think in about two weeks we will go.

Surendra Kumar: Again, after he has been to Bombay, etcetera, we will meet him again.

Prabhupāda: So the application prepare in consultation, taking help and guidance. He is real devotee.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, we'll do it.

Prabhupāda: Don't do alone. Don't do alone.

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Sinking.

Bhakti-prema: Crushed by (indistinct). (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the Rand McNally's Illustrated World Atlas, its special feature is that it gives maps describing all different subjects like language. What language is spoken throughout different places is the world is shown by map and the national areas, according to size, population, and cities, major populations, densities of population. Like China is supposed to be... China. This shows proportionately in population according to this and India, it says that it is... Everything else is very small compared to these two, India and China. Agriculture, what kind of agriculture, natural vegetation, climate... (break)

Bhakti-prema: But there was no Atlantic Ocean, Indian Oceans, no. But after that, there were sixteen thousand sons of Sagara Mahārāja. Then their sacrificial hearth was stolen by Indra. So it was put somewhere in the earth folds. They began to dig the earth to find out that hearth. So they dug other oceans, (indistinct) Kapila Muni (indistinct), and it explains the curse(?) that he is the chief. And then there's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "Only our knowledge of the crust of the earth is based on direct observation, but studies of paths of earthquake waves..." Then it goes... The only way they can understand is by direct observation. And that's very limited. Says, "All the planets were probably formed at much the same time." It doesn't sound like they have very much knowledge, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is "probably," "maybe." Says that "Probably all the planets were formed at much the same time from the same great dust cloud." After you create this planetarium, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they'll have to rewrite all of these books. These businesses...

Bhakti-prema: Another book has to be written. Its name should be Easy-to-Read Geography or Advanced Geography. And also about history we have to write. Your Divine Grace will write Advanced History, and there the complete lifetime of Manus and Indras should be given.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people...

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're tremendous. Here is a letter from the member of the advisory board of the Sāhitya Academy. You know what that is Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sāhitya Academy? I think it's a literary academy. " 'No earthly writer today can match the vast outpouring of pure verse which our ancient sages, particularly the great Vyāsadeva, have left to the world. Motivated by a deep desire to give moral, cultural, and educational upliftment to all people irrespective of caste, creed or nationality, they have taught us the higher values of life through the medium of historical narrations, biographies, the lives of great men, and simple instructive stories. The unlimited wealth which they have left behind in the Devanāgarī script is sheer ecstasy to read for the poet, the student and the common man. Since dialectic differences began to splinter men into smaller groups, the original language, Sanskrit, was gradually forgotten. It is special grace upon the denizens of this world today that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done such a tremendous job of meticulously translating into so many languages the sacred books of our heritage. Swamiji's most noteworthy achievement is his Encyclopedia of Vedic Education, the multivolume presentation of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta.' " One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this calling it the Encyclopedia of Vedic..., as he's doing...Everyone has always known the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but fewer people knew Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and now these two are lumped together as equally very important works.

Prabhupāda: Complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much increased...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gandhi tried twenty years to get little equal rights. The General Smuts refused. He was failure in South Africa. And then he decided that "I shall drive these Europeans, Englishmen, from India." He came. That also he could not do. Here also, for thirty years he struggled. He was failure, nonviolent. It is Subhash Bose's INA which drove away these Englishmen. You know that? That Indian Army, what is that, INA, Indian National Army? When he organized this National Army, then the Englishmen came to sense that "Now we cannot rule over." This rascal was going on, nonviolence... (laughter) While... "We shall pat them: 'Oh, yes, you are so powerful. Oh, why you are trying to drive away?' " And he'll be... "Oh..." The Baitland(?) Colony in a loincloth, and engaged in the sun chair.(?) He had no practical knowledge. He started the movement from 1917, and actually it was... Independence was given, 1947. Thirty years he failed. Twenty years he failed there. He spoils fifty years for nothing, and distorting Bhagavad-gītā, that in Bhagavad-gītā there is nonviolence. Such a rascal. Bhagavad-gītā begins with, with this word, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) "Two parties desiring to fight." That is the beginning. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). And Kṛṣṇa's whole life is yuddha, fighting. Before His birth, plan was being made how to kill Him. This is yuddha. Kaṁsa was planning. And after His birth He had to go away, just to make a show, from His father's house to another house incognito to avoid yuddha. And when yuddha began, three months old, He killed Pūtanā.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tell him. His name has been submitted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For residency? He doesn't need it. He says he's arranged an Australian passport.

Gurukṛpā: I have now... I am an Australian.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's changed his nationality.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Commonwealth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the men are like that?

Gurukṛpā: No, most. Bhānu has come with me now. He's here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's Canadian.

Gurukṛpā: He's Canadian. And I have some Australians and English boys with me.

Prabhupāda: So stay.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Bhānu, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh! Yaśodānandana dāsa. I am very glad to see you. Keeping good health?

Bhānu: Yes.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way organize these two places with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. And we should ventilate in the papers that this Indian investment of American money is not American money. It is my money. I have written books, laboring whole night. The American boys have cooperated with me by printing, by distributing, and the money was received by selling the books. So the books are mine. I have given to the society. So I have done business, regular, in foreign countries. I have earned money and spending the same money in my country. It is not American money. It is my money. I have done business. That's all. It is a credit for Indian son so to do such tremendous business and bring money for investing in his own country, from the national point of view... Why the...? The Americans are not claiming that this is their money. They are my disciples; they are cooperating with me. Actually it is a business. I have done business, I have earned money and brought it at home to spend. Everyone does. They should not misunderstand that I have stolen money from America and brought it. It is fair business. That's all. Ventilate this. They are under impression that the American government is supplying, the World Bank is supplying. Nobody is supplying. I am earning money by business, by my hard labor. Hm?

Devotee: Yes. That is fact.

Prabhupāda: Ventilate this.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the doll project? That nice museum?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Some big photographers, they are very much attracted, so they made a new, a second set of the changing bodies for the (faulty recording) ...on a mountain, some mountain, or a large hill in California, and all day this national publicity photographer took pictures of it for the press. He said he wants to make this the best-known picture of the year. I don't know where it's going to be released, but he wants to have it put in a big magazine. There's two of them. They both wanted the rights to take pictures of it. So they let the more famous one of the two... (indistinct)

Śrutakīrti: They set that exhibit up at the Ratha-yātrā festival. They had one large tent of the "Changing of the Bodies" exhibit, and myself and another devotee went to go see it, but there were so many people in line that we changed our mind. Several hundred people were standing waiting to see that exhibit. It's going to be very famous, "Changing of the Bodies."

Prabhupāda: It is a new thing. Many people come to see in our exhibition... (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...sell whatever they produce, whatever they print. There hasn't been increase much.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's staying at about the same pace. The reason is... They could increase, but the reason it's not is that more emphasis is going into increasing the big books. The magazine's keeping pretty much at a steady rate of nearly half a million a month, and they are pushing to increase the big book distribution. Otherwise it would be very easy to increase. In other words, wherever we want to place the emphasis.

Prabhupāda: So books are selling nice? (end)

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are guṇḍās. (laughter)

Jayapatākā: Because we are foreigners, so when they first came and said that "The foreigners, they are firing upon us Indians although we did no wrong," so rather than take what is the actual situation, they immediately said, "Oh, yes, foreigners are firing upon our Indians." They took a national stand, influenced by different reasons. That is why that matter initially was against us. But now the fact that they are such type of guṇḍā and anti-social, they are just showing by their own mistakes. They can't hide their nature. They've already been summoned by the SDO on what's called śabdara,(?) that they are undesirable elements, twenty of them, on another account, because they had done something else wrong, and they're all on a type of bail, even apart from our case. So day by day, it's becoming more and more apparent, their nature. You gave me the name Jayapatākā, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and I hope that by your mercy this name can become true. Then there will be victory in all these efforts.

Prabhupāda: It has become true.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rāma?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Round-table conference. There will be other scientists from Delhi, like D. S. Kotari. D. S. Kotari is the ex-chairman of University Grants Commission. He's a very well known physicist. He's a very interested... I think he's the most interested in India in our field. He's retired and very respected. All Indian scientific community... Actually, this was his idea, that we set up a round-table conference in Indian National Science Academy. So we agreed to that. We'll have some sort of a debating form. So I'll bring all our members, and we'll have conference in Delhi. Also Krishnamurti... He's the director of television in Delhi. He's going to make some arrangement for us after the conference for the television appearance in New Delhi. Also most of the schools, they want us come and speak on the same topics that we are organizing here.

Prabhupāda: We want that they should be interested.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He proposed that. That's Indian National Science Academy. But he had some very strange ideas. I'd like to clarify some of the points. Also, these people who are coming, they want us to come and speak to all their universities.

Prabhupāda: That will be very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we'll concentrate here, near Delhi and Punjab, this time, Aligarh and Agra. We'll try to finish this area within this coming month or so. And after that, I'll move to Bombay. I'll try to organize better in Bombay. Also Bombay will be much more effective. There are so many scientists there. I'd like to make a strong show in Bombay.

Bhāgavata: They have a space center there, don't they, in Bombay?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have got Trombay Atomic Research Center also. There is a place called Tata Institute of Fundamental Research.

Bhāgavata: And in Bangalore they have some good institutes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. We'll go all over India. In Calcutta will be very interesting because there are so many people,

Bhāgavata: Yesterday you took ḍāl and ruṭi?

Abhirāma: Just tasted.

Bhāgavata: Oh. Just tasted.

Prabhupāda: Simply touch.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: 27th October?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This month, yes, October 27th. It was Indian National Science Academy. There are some very well known scientists, including Kothari, D. S. Kothari and other... They told me there is a group of scientists in Delhi, actually from all over India. It's called "Mind Group." They like to do research on nature of consciousness. And they told me that it would be very good if we have a debate between our group and their group. So I agreed to that. And the Mishra, actually, the one who came last time, he also belongs to that group, and Kothari is the chairman of that group, and there's one Bengali called Lankadas(?) Gupta. He's the secretary. They all belong to that group. So they're going to invite us for a, they call, round-table debate. It will be about twenty people from their side and five from our side. So we're going to have a confrontation. And also Dr. Krana told me that when I come I can fix a television program in Delhi to appear us, and they're going to interview us in the Indian television. But I decided to establish Bombay as a... Since we have everything there ready, I'd like to furnish with office, and also I requested our members to stay here for some time. So they're going to establish the library also. I have plans to contact many leading scientists, personal goal. So we'll all go out with our books, and we'll try to make them members of the Institute. Also in the process we'll speak and make engagements, and also we'll try to request them to help us in pushing this movement, plus we'll request them to review our books on a scientific level. And, so that way we can make friends and they can help us in, I think, various ways. I think that... I'm thinking of charging one hundred rupees only for membership. This is called annual membership. It's like in any other institution we have this membership program. Just like I am a member of American Chemical Society. We have annual membership fees. So just like that, we'll generate, called subscriber members, and they will get our journal, Sa-Vijñānam, free. And they'll renew this every year. I just discussed this morning with my members that we should plan to make many members while we're here, six months in India. Then yesterday we were discussing about our possible permanent place in the United States. And I suggested that, from my experience, that Atlanta was very, very nice place especially to do writing, because the atmosphere is nice and the climate is also nice and it's natural setting. It is very conducive, especially thinking and writing type of work. So I decided that until at least we have a permanent place, I like to stay for a few years in Atlanta. Then they will stay about three, four years to do the, some of our main writing. And then also we can do the preaching, side by side. So instead of going to Europe, we'll go back to the United States after the Māyāpur festival, and then we'll do more writing, and in the process we'll also make several engagements in the United States. We'll start preaching now. Also Amarendra, that I requested... He's in Balavanta's zone. He's the president in Gainesville. He's the one who's good in making engagements for us. He's very enthusiastic. But he cannot come outside United States. So I thought it will also be very practical to be in Atlanta. Then in the process we'll look for a possible permanent place in Washington, DC, so that we can work out slowly, but... At least four or five years we'll be engaged in writing. So... And also we'll request, make many members as possible from the scientific community.

Prabhupāda: Enroll the intelligent men.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So seven thousand you can give, contribution. In that way...

Vrindavan De: Whatever the amount I may take, I can pay back by 10th or 15th April, positively.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He'll get 43,200 by the 7th of November.

Vrindavan De: Because we have got an order from the National Library of Calcutta worth one lakh. So...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So supply him half the order to begin with.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why not do that?

Vrindavan De: It is on our confirmation, because the money is the main criterion.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You'll have the money by the 7th of the month.

Vrindavan De: I don't have any such big amount. But if you...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. The postal receipts. But some of the money is to Sulaksmana De, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Some of this money...

Prabhupāda: No, all the money he can take.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Somebody's hand is warm, I want. Whose hand?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. Better?

Prabhupāda: Where is podda? (?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your sister. I'm just calling right now. (break) (long pause-Śrīla Prabhupāda is sleeping) ...of the different businesses of Vrindavan? Well, first of all he was getting money for traveling expenses. So I have written a letter to Mr. Bekkar, the manager of the Central Bank of India at Camac Street, informing him that henceforward the interest from the fixed deposits in the name of BBT should be stopped from giving it to Vrinda Book Company, and instead the money should be transferred by mail transfer to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Tank Road, to BBT account. I gave all the details. That's one letter. Then furthermore, I also addressed a letter to the Punjab National Bank, Brabourn Road, informing them that the Rs. 500 should be stopped from being given to Shrimati Radharani De, because... I didn't mention this, but the reason is that she'll be getting one thousand rupees from Indian Overseas Bank. And I'm sending that letter...

Prabhupāda: Oh... Has Indian Overseas arranged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Let me explain what I was going to say. The letter to Punjab Bank I have not sent to the bank. Rather, I have sent it to Girirāja and informed him that when the Indian Overseas Bank sends their first transfer of Rs. 1000, then he may send the letter to Punjab Bank regarding Radharani De. In other words, when we first get it confirmed...

Prabhupāda: Why not Punjab National Bank, as they are sending, let them send and ask Overseas five hundred?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we've already given them a scheme which accounts for everybody.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What...? The... In the Punjab National Bank, fixed deposits in the name of?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fixed deposits are in the name of... Five lakhs are in the name of Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Temple Maintenance account, and five lakhs, sixty thousand in the name of Māyāpur-Vṛndāvana Trust.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So where they will kept?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The interest or the fixed deposits? The fixed deposits are in Delhi, and the interest, for now, for the next few months, I am instructing the bank to continue to transfer to the accounts here in Vṛndāvana that it's always been given to. Then when the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust account is opened, I will issue a fresh instruction to the Parliament Street bank that the interest money should be transferred to that account in Navadvīpa or wherever we open the account. My idea was simply that since the money is to be spent in Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, then when we write checks out, etcetera, from that account, it's much easier to encash it rather than having to go to Delhi for encashment.

Prabhupāda: No, why Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi? Whenever needed...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, you said that the purpose of the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust was for development of Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. That was your original... At least that's what you initially told us.

Prabhupāda: Mm. Which is better? Which is better?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That it should be just for Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi or general?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think it's better for Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Running down the road? (laughter) Śrīla Prabhupāda, shall I continue with this report? Another thing that's beginning to happen is that the professors, after getting your standing orders and after teaching with your books in their courses, they are starting to become very friendly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For example here is one example cited. He says, it says here, that "Daśaratha Prabhu went straight to the chairman of philosophy who happens to teach in that field, and that chairman also bought a copy of Monograph 2..." which is Svarūpa Dāmodara's science books; these are also becoming important, "...and promised to review it. During this time, Śeṣa was meeting with Fritz Blackwell, an Asian language specialist who has used Kṛṣṇa book in his course as a textbook and has known devotees for four years. Fritz's exchanges with Śeṣa were so intriguing that we shall simply list them one by one. The two passed in the hallway, not knowing each other, but later, when they met, Mr. Blackwell said, 'Oh, I knew you must have been with ISKCON. No one else would be so nicely dressed.' Śeṣa had corresponded with Mr. Blackwell previously and sent him copies of 'The Hare Kṛṣṇa People' and 'Spiritual Frontier' movies to review for a special national survey of audio-visual materials on new spiritual movements. Fritz related that ISKCON's response was the quickest among his many suppliers for the project, and when he told his wife the Hare Kṛṣṇas were the first to send their films, she simply replied, 'They would be.' Śeṣa acquired advance copies of Mr. Blackwell's reviews on the two films, which we'll enclose with this report if possible. Introducing Mr. Blackwell to the Readings in Vedic Literature prompted him to say, 'I will definitely use this in my course next year.' He also agreed to send a review by December. Fritz told Śeṣa, 'It's amazing that you've come today. We're just going to start our study of Kṛṣṇa tomorrow. Can you come and speak in my class?' Śeṣa immediately complied. Fritz introduced him as an authority and personal colleague, so the students listened attentively and took notes. Śeṣa used slides to supplement his academic glorification of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Interested, the students asked many questions such as 'Why is Kṛṣṇa blue? What is prasādam?' Fritz was very pleased with the whole thing and gladly helped Śeṣa make arrangements to get another Caitanya-caritāmṛta standing order in the library." They already had one order, and they got another order. "On the same campus, Śeṣa sold a preview order..." Anyway, then they sold some more books. That's just an example of the way professors are beginning to be more and more helpful, and they're actually becoming devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They've been very much impressed with the Library Party. The Library Party devotees come in suits with ties. They look very proper. They're scholarly. The books are the most prestigious, scholarly presentations of the philosophy available. And these people, they first ordered the standing order. Now they're ordering course textbooks. And now they're starting to teach your books in the courses, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They're preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness right in the classrooms. So automatically, when the see the devotees, they are very much attracted and friendly with our devotees. They want to take prasādam. So the scholars, who are the most intellectual community in America, are becoming devoted now to Your Divine Grace and this movement.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read this letter? It's from Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Swami.

Prabhupāda: You have read already.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This thing? What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your signatures were fairly good. Some of them were very good. They remarked that the signature was strong... (break) I tried to make it as quick as possible. Now I have the receipts, and I will keep them locked in the almirah just like we did last time. And after about one week we'll be able to get the original documents after they've been registered. In the meantime, on Monday we're going to open up a bank account in the name of Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust in Punjab National Bank, New Delhi. Girirāja, who is the secretary of the Trust, and Bhavānanda Mahārāja, who are the treasurers, will open the account. So the interest from the fixed deposits will go directly into that account. Is that nice? That was your idea. And the bank will be happy that we're keeping the money in their bank. All of your plans are perfect, Śrīla Prabhupāda. And our perfection is simply to carry them out without changing in any way. You have such complete plans that we don't have to do anything new. We have to work our whole lifetime simply to carry out what you've planned. Even then we won't be able to complete everything. We'll have to trust to those who come after us to finish everything. So I'll just finish everything now with them, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and lock everything away, and then I'll come back. I don't want to leave Girirāja alone. It's nice to do everything together, two. I'll come right back afterwards. (break)

Prabhupāda: The Trust deed somebody may read.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. I can bring it just now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can read it to you personally.

Prabhupāda: All right. (break) San Diego, we have got a temple.

Page Title:National (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:07 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=106, Let=0
No. of Quotes:106