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National (Conversations 1968 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Would you tell me something of your own background? That is, where you were educated, how you became a disciple of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: I was born and educated in Calcutta. Calcutta is my home place. I was born in 1896, and I was my father's pet child, so my education began a little late, and still, I was educated in higher secondary, high school for eight years. In primary school four years, higher secondary school, eight years, in college, four years. Then I joined Gandhi's movement, national movement. But by good chance I met my Guru Mahārāja, my spiritual master, in 1922. And since then, I was attracted in this line, and gradually I gave up my household life. I was married in 1918 when I was still a third year student. And so I got my children. I was doing business. Then I retired from my family life in 1954. For four years I was alone, without any family. Then I took regularly renounced order of life in 1959. Then I devoted myself in writing books. My first publication came out in 1962, and when there were three books, then I started for your country in 1965 and I reached here in September, 1965. Since then, I am trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness in America, Canada, in European countries. And gradually the centers are developing. The disciples are also increasing. Let me see what is going to be done.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: ...or is it simply that that is the age group that has been attracted to your teaching?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes. That is the fact. I invite everyone, old and young, but generally the youngsters, they are attracted.

Interviewer: Have you any idea what the number of the people are nationally?

Prabhupāda: So far initiated members, they are about, not less than hundred. But there are many others, admirers. In each center there are at least fifty to sixty members.

Interviewer: I assume that being an initiated member means that the individual has acquainted himself sufficiently with your teaching and gone through certain disciplines? Is that?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Certainly. That is the first condition to accept one as my disciple, because there are some restriction. I don't allow illicit sex life. I don't allow intoxication. I don't allow meat-eating and gambling. So I build up their character. So naturally my followers are very restricted. (chuckles)

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: ...or is it simply that that is the age group that has been attracted to your teaching?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes. That is the fact. I invite everyone, old and young, but generally the youngsters, they are attracted.

Interviewer: Have you any idea what the number of the people are nationally?

Prabhupāda: So far initiated members, they are about, not less than hundred. But there are many others, admirers. In each center there are at least fifty to sixty members.

Interviewer: I assume that being an initiated member means that the individual has acquainted himself sufficiently with your teaching and gone through certain disciplines? Is that?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Certainly. That is the first condition to accept one as my disciple, because there are some restriction. I don't allow illicit sex life. I don't allow intoxication. I don't allow meat-eating and gambling. So I build up their character. So naturally my followers are very restricted.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So it should be replied properly, that "You do not know what is sādhu. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do you bother yourself?" Just like one, this Jain paper has published that "Swami Bhaktivedantaji says that 'Kṛṣṇa is everything; Hinduism is nothing.' " So anyone who says Kṛṣṇa is everything, he is not Hindu. Just see. Such foolishness. Go on.

Haṁsadūta: So... "The sādhus will have to live on alms given by others and will have to forego many of their luxurious personal needs. The coming years are therefore going to create for Uncle Sam a national problem of magnitude..."

Prabhupāda: You, already problem.

Haṁsadūta: "...the like of which he has not seen before."

Prabhupāda: What...? What they are doing for the hippies? In U.S.A. they have thousands of hippies. They are doing nothing. That problem is already there. Go on.

Haṁsadūta: "It will create a national problem of a magnitude the like of which he has not seen before. In fact, Western society is in for a great jolt. A. Karim Saikh.(?)" Then two more letters.

Prabhupāda: But the old woman's crying.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So it should be replied properly, that "You do not know what is sādhu. You do not know what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do you bother yourself?" Just like one, this Jain paper has published that "Swami Bhaktivedantaji says that 'Kṛṣṇa is everything; Hinduism is nothing.' " So anyone who says Kṛṣṇa is everything, he is not Hindu. Just see. Such foolishness. Go on.

Haṁsadūta: So... "The sādhus will have to live on alms given by others and will have to forego many of their luxurious personal needs. The coming years are therefore going to create for Uncle Sam a national problem of magnitude..."

Prabhupāda: You, already problem.

Haṁsadūta: "...the like of which he has not seen before."

Prabhupāda: What...? What they are doing for the hippies? In U.S.A. they have thousands of hippies. They are doing nothing. That problem is already there. Go on.

Haṁsadūta: "It will create a national problem of a magnitude the like of which he has not seen before. In fact, Western society is in for a great jolt. A. Karim Saikh.(?)" Then two more letters.

Prabhupāda: But the old woman's crying.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: ...your devatā finished. But your relationship with Kṛṣṇa will never finish-nityo nityānāṁ—because you are nitya, Kṛṣṇa is nitya. That relationship, we have to reestablish that relation. That is the function of the human body. If you are simply busy with this temporary nature, then you are losing time. The temporary relationship will... Just like I came here; now, tomorrow I am going. So, say, for fortnight the relation was there. Now you'll have another relation. Similarly, after this body I do not know what relation, what father, mother, I will get and what relation will be established. What community will be established I do not know. And then I will forget. Now those who are Indian, but suppose in his last birth he was Chinaman. He has forgotten. Now he's fighting for India's cause. If the Chinaman is fighting for China's cause. This is disease. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). We are ready to serve all the dayitas(?), but eternal servitude is Kṛṣṇa. That we have to establish. Then tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Then, after leaving this body, he has no more to accept this material body and create another society, another family, another relationship, another atmosphere. So because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, in Kṛṣṇa society, therefore we are dividing. Suppose one animal is born in India or in America. We don't take him as "my brother. He is also born in the same national." No. He kills it. He gives protection only to the animal with hands and legs, not to the animals who are four-legged.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Haṁsadūta: But a daily newspaper has to turn out daily, so it takes time to transport it from one city to another city.

Prabhupāda: Well, from every city we can publish. Every city there is a newspaper place.

Devotee (4): ...national, just like the national...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta, and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city. Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President, it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay, is really important city in India, big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything—Calcutta, and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But these Calcutta men, they create sometimes situation, very complicated. So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Bannerjee made, Surendranath Bannerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Collier, he wanted to divide Bengal, made it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: It is impossible.

Prabhupāda: It is impossible. Our idea is that best ideas from the original idea. Just like in the Bhāgavata there is a description of communistic idea, and it is being described to Mahārāja Yudhisthira. So if there is something good, good experience, why it should not be adopted? That is our point of view. And besides that, in the modern civilization they are missing one point: the aim of human life, scientifically. The aim of human life is self-realization, ātmā-tattvam. It is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ yāvan na jijñāsa ātmā-tattvam. Unless the human society comes to the point of self-realization, whatever they are doing, they are being defeated, parābhava. I think you know this word, parābhava. Parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. So actually it is happening so. The modern society, human society, there is advancement, economic advancement, so many things, advancement. Still, in the matter of keeping peace and tranquility there is fight, individually, socially, politically, nationally. So if we think very cool-headed, then in spite of so much improvement in so many branches of knowledge, we are keeping the same mentality of quarreling. That is also visible in lower animal society.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: No? Not much?

Prabhupāda: I am not very much interested for sightseeing.

Prof. Kotovsky: But in any case, if you have come, you ought to go somewhere and to see something.

Prabhupāda: I'm not...

Prof. Kotovsky: 'Cause to stay in a hotel, old style hotel like National, is not interesting. Not many people to see. And you are leaving day after tomorrow?

Prabhupāda: That is my program. Day after tomorrow...

Prof. Kotovsky: From here you are going to...?

Prabhupāda: Day after tomorrow or...?

Śyāmasundara: Wednesday.

Devotee:: Today is 22nd. We leave 25th, morning.

Śyāmasundara: 25th.

Devotee: Morning.

Prof. Kotovsky: And you are leaving for United States or for Europe?

Prabhupāda: Yes, for Europe.

Television Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Yes but more emphasis on that relationship than on the relationship between one individual and another individual. Am I right in that?

Prabhupāda: No. We have to establish first of all our lost relationship with God. You see? Then we can understand what is the relationship between one individual to another. If the central point is missing, then there is practically no relationship. Just like you are American. Another is American. Both of you, you feel American nationally because the center is America. So unless you understand God, you cannot understand what I am, neither I can understand what you are. So we have to first of all reestablish our lost relationship with God; then we can establish, talk of universal brotherhood. Otherwise there will be discrimination. Just like in your country, or any country, the national... National means a man born in that land. Is it not? But they do not take the animals as national. Why they have no right to become national? That is imperfect knowledge. There is no God consciousness. Therefore they think only the man born in this land is national, not others.

Interview -- July 29, 1971, Gainesville:

Interviewer: Yes, but more, more emphasis on that relationship than on the relationship between one individual and another individual. Am I right in that?

Prabhupāda: No. We have to establish first of all our lost relationship with God. You see? Then we can understand what is the relationship between one individual to another. If the central point is missing, then there is practically no relationship. Just like you are American and another is American, both of you, you feel American nationality because the center is America. So unless you understand God, you cannot understand "What I am." Neither I can understand what you are. So I have..., we have to first of all reestablish our lost relationship with God, then we can establish, talk of universal brotherhood. Otherwise there will be discrimination. Just like in your country, or any country, the national... National means a man born in that land. Is it not? But they do not take the animals as national. Why they have no right to become national? That is imperfect of knowledge. There is no God consciousness; therefore they think only the man born in this land is national, not others.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Śyāmasundara: Then why don't we go and take an account in his bank?

Dhanañjaya: Mr. Arnold's in the Midland Bank.

Prabhupāda: So why not open all the accounts there? Or ask the present bank that we are proposing this. Otherwise Midland Bank is a famous bank, it is nice bank.

Mr. Arnold: Well I suggest that they, they should go to the National Westminster and tell them that you'll want this loan for...

Prabhupāda: But they agreed, National Westminster.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: To agree to pay on account of this Kingsway.

Mr. Arnold: Oh, no. That was Lloyd's that agreed then, because they were trying to save their premises. They knew perfectly well that if it went to someone else then the whole premises, sooner or later, would be torn down.

Prabhupāda: That was it.

Room Conversation -- London, August 10, 1971:

Prabhupāda: The bank was prepared to finance it, and he missed that opportunity?

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, and he didn't even tell us.

Mr. Arnold: The bank was only going to loan two-thirds. Then the building society next door was going to help, and also the National Westminster was prepared to help, I'm quite sure. But of course, I think...

Prabhupāda: It was not tactfully done.

Śyāmasundara: No.

Prabhupāda: Not intelligent.

Śyāmasundara: He didn't tell us.

Prabhupāda: He is not very intelligent.

Room Conversation with Mayor -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tridhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. These are nationality, ye bhauma ijya-dhīḥ, the conception of worshiping the land, bhauma. Bhauma means land, bhūmi. Ijya, ijya means worshipable. So one who thinks that bhauma, bhūmi, anything made of bhūmi, earth, worshipable...

Guest: I don't call it worshipable, Prabhupāda, but I have, I have more (indistinct) with this name, because...

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This is all illusion. This jananī janma bhūmi, huh?

Devotee: I'm going for Guru dasa.

Prabhupāda: Accha. This ijya-dhīḥ, to worship the land of birth, but bhārata-bhūmi has special, it is pūjā...

Guest: That is my contention.

Prabhupāda: Not, not as nationality.

Guest: Not as nationality. There are more...

Prabhupāda: But the land where Lord Kṛṣṇa came, Lord Rāma came, Lord Caitanya came, that land is certainly worshipable. That is another thing.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh? (laughs) You are all, you do not realize that, that you are twenty-four hours in ugly reality! (break) ...attended. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step danger. Why taking this?

Reporter: I know, sir, but this is collective, national danger here. Have you anything to offer to us as a, as a...

Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our only remedy is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You take to this and you will be happy. That's all.

Reporter: We'll..., yes, sir. I think somebody should go to (indistinct), to those who are threatening us. Some, I wish...

Prabhupāda: What benefit you will derive by going to (indistinct)?

Reporter: But, well, he'll go to the... Supposing somebody is out to kill me. That's changing, if you can't tell him...

Prabhupāda: But suppose (indistinct) does not kill you. Will you be safe?

Reporter: No, sir. That I can see, but...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of going to (indistinct)? You will die today or tomorrow. That's all. If you want to save yourself, then go to Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposal. (laughter) As soon as you go the (indistinct), he does not fight, do you mean to say you will live forever?

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says, "I will save you." Therefore let us go to Kṛṣṇa. Why (indistinct)?

Reporter: Changing, because he is disturbing, that's all.

Prabhupāda: Disturbing... Your mind is also disturbing always.

Reporter: Yes, yes. You are...

Prabhupāda: That is always with you. Your body disease always with you. Are you not suffering from bodily pains—"Oh, I'll (indistinct)"? Why don't you go to (indistinct) to cure your (indistinct)? (laughter). So why you do? You are already in danger. If you... Why don't you realize that point?

Reporter: That I... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Reporter: But we are talking of national problems.

Prabhupāda: These are symptoms. Just like one man is diseased and he is saying, "Oh, (indistinct)." Real thing is his disease. These are symptoms. So people are trying to cure patchwork. We are giving the supreme cure. That is the difference. No patchwork, no patchwork disease cure will help you. Complete cure.

Interview with Reporters -- November 10, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Huh? There is no question of preference. Kṛṣṇa's creation, it is there. You are creating (indistinct) caste, jana-saṅgaś caste. Caste is already given, in a different name. How you can make casteless? That is not possible. The whole world—"I am American," "I am Indian"—this is caste, bigger caste. Yasyātma-buddhi-kuṇa. So long you will be under the concept of this body, there must be caste division. So we have to come to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there will be no caste. Just like these boys, Americans, Europeans, Africans, Canadians, they have no caste, they have no nationality. They are simply for Kṛṣṇa. That is casteless.

Reporter: So are they brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Reporter: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa conscious means brāhmaṇa. Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ.

Reporter: Not by birth?

Prabhupāda: Not by birth. They are brāhmaṇas by quality. They have got sacred thread. That is also there in the śāstra. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ syat. Varṇa has been given. Varṇa. Varṇa, we want to compare symptoms. The brāhmaṇas are this: satya, samaḥ, damaḥ, titikṣa, ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). This is the symptom of brāhmaṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you find these symptoms anywhere, he is a brāhmaṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Śyāmasundara: Moscow, Paris.

Dr. Singh: How did you find Moscow?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere there is demand for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply artificially they have been checked. I find my market everywhere. I have sown the seed in Moscow. I have got one student.

Dr. Singh: (indistinct) the day when you chant Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Red Square.

Śyāmasundara: Ratha-yātrā, sankirtana.

Prabhupāda: You have been in Moscow?

Dr. Singh: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I was staying in that National Hotel.

Dr. Singh: Who sponsored your (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa. I had some correspondence with one Professor Kotovsky, and he said that... (end)

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- July 5, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, we are not manufacturing this idea. That it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ: (BG 14.4) in every species of life, whatever forms are there. And besides that, we take this body as dress. Just like your white shirt is not you. You are different from the white shirt. Similarly, one may have a body white or black, but he, as spirit soul, is different from the body. We are taking account of the person who is possessing the dress—not the dress, but the person. Just like I am talking with you, I am not talking with your shirt. I don't look to your shirt, whether you have put on a white shirt or black shirt. That is not my concern. I am concerned with you as a living being. This is our philosophy. We don't take account of the outward shirt and coat. This body, this gross body is just like coat, and within this gross body there is subtle body—mind, intelligence and ego. Within the subtle body, the spirit soul is there, and we are trying to deliver the spirit soul from these two kinds of entanglement, subtle and gross. That is our aim. The national movement or religious movement, that is more or less on the basis of the outward dress. One is Christian because he is born by a Christian father. Is it not? One is American because he is born on the land of America. We say that you are neither Christian nor American, Hindu, Muslim or Indian. You are servant of God eternally. Try to understand this fact, and make your life in that way. Then your life is successful. This is all. Simple. Now what is your comment on this statement?

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

called ignorance. He feels satisfied when he is locked up with golden shackles. That is called ignorance.

Guest (2): Nonmaterial bondage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bondage means material. In spiritual life there is no bondage.

Guest (2): How about love between people? Just like this... Is that bondage also?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also bondage. Suppose you love your countrymen. So you want to remain a faithful national, so you will get your birth again in this country or that country, as you like. (doorbell rings) So either you get your birth in India or in America, it doesn't matter. You are bound up by the laws of nature. It is not that Americans do not die, only Indians die. Everyone dies. So that is also bondage.

Guest (1): How about love towards relatives? They say, "Love your parents," or "Love your wife and children." Isn't that also bondage?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Does that mean you should not love your parents?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no love in the material world. You love somebody with some personal interest. So that is not love. Everyone loves. To be frank enough, a wife loves husband so long he is nicely earning, and the husband loves the wife so long she is beautiful. That's all. This is the love. It is not love. It is lust. Love is different thing.

Introduction Speech By Dr. Kapoor and Conversation -- October 15, 1972, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor:...here at Rādhā-Dāmodara. After his long tour of the world in which he got passed the message of Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu in the different karmas, to the different nationalities of the world. This return back to homeland of Śrīla Prabhupāda, is particularly significant, because this time he comes back with a host of his western disciples. This signifies to me the meeting of the East and the West, or at least the beginning of such a meeting. This signifies the victory of spiritualism over materialism, of good over evil. This is really a rare moment in history, for for the first time in the history of the world, for the first time at least living memory, Vaiṣṇavism, the message of Vaiṣṇavism, the message of Mahāprabhu, the message of devotion and of pure devotion has been carried to the west and carried so successfully. I am sure that historians of the future will have a lot to say about Prabhupāda and his movement, and they will be even envious of us for living in a time when this movement was begun and for participating in it. I have a secret realization that at this moment, while we are welcoming Prabhupāda, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrī Jīva Gosvāmī, Śrī Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja, whose samādhis signify their eternal presence in the sacred precincts of this temple, are also joining us in welcoming Prabhupāda, and they are showering their choicest blessings upon him. I can hear them saying, "Long live Prabhupāda, long live Prabhupāda." I am sure as a result of their presence, Prabhupāda will live long for many, many more years, to broadcast the message of Caitanya Mahāprabhu all the world over and inspire us to inspire us with a special zeal in our hearts. And I am sure as a result of their blessings he will rise always, from glory(?). I have also a secret realization that Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī and Jīva Gosvāmī are not only showering their blessings upon Prabhupāda but also upon the western disciples of Prabhupāda that have come along with him and saying that in the process will be realized (?) the message of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and surely and steadily advance on the path of peace, happiness, and divine grace.

Prabhupāda: So blessings of Dr. O.B.L. Kapoor. He is a Vaiṣṇava. Although by age he is my younger brother, we are Godbrothers, and for the last forty years perhaps, since he was a student at Allahabad and I was doing some business there, we are known to each other. So his association is a great blessing for us. But this reception is actually not my reception. It is the reception of my foreign students. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted that His message should be broadcast all over the world, in every village and every town, and my Guru Mahārāja attempted. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura distributed his literature. I think, in 1896, he sent his first book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and I saw in McGill University that book. And I do not know. That was the year of my birth also, 1896.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: No, I think it's up to God and karma-kāṇḍa.

Prabhupāda: So then they must know what is karma-phala. This is a fact. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). But they are..., do not know how to execute karma. They're doing all kinds of sinful activities. So, suppose after this body, on account of my sinful activities, I am going to become a rat or cat or snake or a tree, then what is the use of my so much, how you'd say, jumping over nationalism and this ism and that. If by nature I am going to accept next life the body of a cat and dog, or a tree, then what is the meaning of my, this so-called nationality at the present moment? Is it not the duty of the guardians who are taking care of the people or their son, to educate human being in such a way that they can get better body? What is that education? You are darkness, nobody knows what kind of body he's going to accept next life.

Morning Walk -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: This side is better than the other side. (pause)

Devotee (2): They are sleeping on the street. (break)

Devotee (3): ...things like this. They want to be glorious, to get what they call national spirit, nationalism, everybody is eager to improve the country.

Prabhupāda: So why do they not back this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is a first-class nation.

Devotee (3): Yes, but they don't know.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) them. Take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy. Your nationality will be first-class. (break) ...your nation, America. If they take it, everyone will take it. (break) Gambling.

Devotee (3): Probably gambling, lottery. (break) That Japanese man who you asked to come today, he reads Mandarin, Chinese. I gave him our Mandarin, Chinese Back to Godhead to read yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Mandarin?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: In India, Calcutta, Bombay, Delhi have got branches.

Guest (1): Yes. Pondicherry, Rabindranath Ashram, Pondicherry. Nanda's Ashram(?), in Bangalore. Only Delhi I've been to āśrama (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: This is a cap, with this Japanese (indistinct)?

Guest (1): No, sir. National congress, national India. This is a (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Gandhi cap.

Devotee: Indian National Congress.

Guest (1): Indian National Congress Party, independent (indistinct) national pact with Indonesia ... hot.

Devotee: The Muslims wear the black one and he says it is very hot but this is cool.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): ...nearly bald head, I cover with this...

Prabhupāda: Nowadays gradually, everyone is giving up cap. First of all, only the Bengalis were the capless nation. Now gradually, it has spread all over the world. Nobody uses hats or cap.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they do not know the inner meaning...

Prabhupāda: No, inner meaning is there. But they would not explain that. Simply the dark side, they would explain. And prove that the Indian civilization was very crude and primitive. It has no enlightenment. That was British propaganda. Even during national movement, they bribed one American woman, and she wrote a book: "Mother India." Do you know that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I, no...

Prabhupāda: Ah. "Mother India." She described all the blackmailing of Indian social activities, and Gandhi remarked it: "Drain Inspector's report."

Brahmānanda: What?

Prabhupāda: "Drain inspector's report."

Brahmānanda: Drain?

Prabhupāda: Drain, that sewage water...

Brahmānanda: The sewer.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: British was finished.

Prabhupāda: Finished. Everyone in the United Nations pressed on them: "Why you are colonizing? Why you are occupying so much land? You give up." They were obliged. And there was great national movement of Gandhi. So all United Nations pressed that: "They're wanting to avoid you. Why you are, by force, staying there?" Still, they would not go. But when the soldiers began to join the national movement, they gave it up. "Now we cannot rule it." How very nasty! For their political power, they did so many heinous activities in India. That's a great history. For selling their cotton goods, India's weavers were cut this finger so that they cannot weave. This is there in the history.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Novelists.

Prabhupāda: After sixth year... Yes novelists. So the relationship was very nice. There were... Otherwise, how the Britishers could rule, unless there was obedience. But as soon as they saw now the obedience is going on, the soldiers are leaving our camp and joining the national camp," immediately they decided to leave peacefully. Otherwise, there would be some revolution. At that time, all good relationship will go. Better separate with good relation. This was Attlee's policy, to convince statesmen like Churchill that: "You cannot rule over India any more. Better separate in good relationship."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few weeks ago, there was a supplement in the Times, the London Times. So they were describing about the very relationship between British and India, in the early British period and after the British period. There they talked only about very good points, whereas they never say anything about... All good points.

Prabhupāda: No, that... When they discuss, they must describe the good points only. But some of the British rulers were very, very unkind. And the last was that Jallianwalla Bagh massacre, created by Lord Chelmsford. Then the British rule finished. In 1917, and immediately Gandhi started non-cooperation movement. So after thirty years, the Britishers were obliged to leave.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Yes, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Presidency College and Scottish Church College.

Prabhupāda: Now they are ruined due to this Naxalite movement. Subash Bose was in our college.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish? Oh.

Prabhupāda: He was first in the Presidency College, but on account of his national spirit, he was rusticated from Presidency College. Then he came to our college.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is a...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...Subash Bose Research Institute in Calcutta in...

Prabhupāda: Subash Bose?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. About the museum.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Devotee: Several pictures...

Prabhupāda: "Rival to Nelson." Our Ratha-yātrā is rival to Nelson. Actually world religion. There is no doubt about it. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. And we have no restriction. They, so long they, our so-called Hindus, they restricted. But now this is open. (Hindi) (break)

Guest (1): I think the article they got in a straight weekly mag... (indistinct) envy our national character. You know, there's envy, a lot of envy. If you are successful, or somebody is successful, everybody becomes jealous.

Prabhupāda: So that we explain every day. This material life means to become jealous. That is material life. Material life means you are jealous of me, I am jealous of you.

Guest (1): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation for a few sentences) Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam: (SB 6.3.19) "Religion is given by God." (Hindi) sarva-dharmān parityajya, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So this is religion. (Hindi) They are not religion. They are cheating. Bhāgavata says dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). "The cheating type of religion is kicked out." So we are following the same principle. We are kicking out all these cheating type of religion. It is explained any religion which does not recognize or do not understand the principles of religion, so that is cheating religion.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (1): So difficult.

Prabhupāda: It is meant for him.

Guest (3): You read Guru Mahārāja's Bhagavad-gītā, so simple. Even the child can understand who knows English. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...trouble to the poor animals. Why the poor animals should be killed? They have got equal rights. But these rascals, they will not give equal rights. (break)... National means one who is born in that land. The animals are born in that land. Man is also born in that land. Trees are also born in that land. But they are not national. Only human beings national. Imperfect knowledge.

Guest (4): In Luton, before eighty years... When I was reading the history of Luton, on the page number 176, it was written that there was a great shortage of food before eighty years, and in some place people were cutting their own children and eating.

Prabhupāda: Huh?!

Guest (4): This is written. If you like that book, I can send you. So the non-vegetarians...

Prabhupāda: Cutting their children?!

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): No mass slaughters, no mass slaughters.

Prabhupāda: No. This is from the western world. This is very nice argument, that in the jungle there are carnivorous animals, but they don't maintain slaughterhouse. Neither they attack unless they are hungry. Otherwise, in Africa, there is national...

Haṁsadūta: Park.

Prabhupāda: All the animals are freely rotating.

Buddhist Monk (1): Or they think their life is in danger.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Buddhist Monk (1): If one radiates love and kindness...

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Defense is allowed to everyone. You must defend. That is another thing. But ordinarily, not that because a lion has got jaws and teeth, therefore he's simply jumping over. Not like that. Even people have experienced that when the, these ferocious animals, they are not hungry, they don't attack. They don't attack.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But it is compulsory? (laughter) They can come. It is not the question of surrender. (break)

David Lawrence: (reading from report) "...used to be involved heavily with that. The booklet itself is to be produced in color, black and white by means of one of the most modern printing systems in the world, and the colorplates should be of very good quality." You know, I was thinking about the beautiful pictures of the Bhagavad... (Break) ...really produce those. "It's hoped to market the thirty-page booklets for about thirty pence. The publisher, Marshall's Educational, is a long established publishing house which is Marshall, Morgan and Scott, specialized in theological and devotional books. They are now turning their attention to the production of much-needed religious education books. Financial basis of the series: David Lawrence has undertaken the commission with the agreement that they must be produced as cheaply as possible. The author receives no expenses and is receiving payment on the lowest rate of royalty only." So it means I've just about covered my expenses. "The purpose of the series of booklets: to offer the opportunity for students to see the spiritual way as relevant today, 2.) to show how God loves and how we should respond with devotion, 3.) to produce a booklet so cheaply that it will easily be available in schools and to any other interested inquirers, to the latter by means of national outlets such as W.H. Smith." They're an enormous chain of booksellers throughout the country. "4.) to allow each movement to speak for itself so that at every point the representatives will feel that they themselves are behind the booklet. This will give the youngsters full opportunity to make up their own minds as to the bona fide nature or not of a devotional organization." Your specific booklet. "An essential part of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness booklet and a revolutionary concept in religious education publishing will be the production of the teacher's pack. The aims of producing this pack are 1.) to arm the normally conservative R.E. teacher with such a battery of audio-visual aids that he will feel fully dressed to embark upon a series of lessons on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, 2.) to give the teacher..." (pause, people coming in or out of room)

Prabhupāda: Yes, go on.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But at the present moment, they are encroaching upon others' right. And that is sinful, and he's punishable. Just like every living entity has got the right to live at the cost of God. But the human being is interfering with the rights of living of the animals. They have got the right. As human being has got the right to live...

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes. I agree.

Prabhupāda: ...why not they? National. National means a living entity born in particular country. So at the present moment, the national means only human being. The animals are not nationals. They are being sent to the slaughterhouse. So this kind of sinful activities are going on. Therefore renunciation means to give up these sinful activities. That is real renunciation. Otherwise, you cannot renounce anything. You have to live. And that is allowed at the cost of God. Everything belongs to God. You are son of God. So you live. But don't encroach... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. That is the instruction of Īśopaniṣad. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ (ISO 1). Everything belongs to God. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. So you have got the right to enjoy what is allotted for you. Don't encroach upon others' right. This is renunciation. But they are encroaching upon others' right. Especially the human society. And that is the cause of all troubles. Because they have no God consciousness, they have no sense about God, and there is no sense about next life... What is your opinion about life after death?

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Śyāmasundara: He goes back frequently to India for visits.

Prabhupāda: Berampur is not very far away from our temple.

Śyāmasundara: In Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That road goes to Berampur. That is called Berampur National Road.

Lord Brockway: Yes, it was then a village. I understand it is now a town. When I was in India five years ago, I set aside one day to visit Berampur, and unfortunately, it was the one day when I was not well. So I never went back.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen. You have so many nice books. We have got also some books. Have you shown him these books?

Śyāmasundara: Yes, I've given him some.

Lord Brockway: Oh, you... I have received many books.

Śyāmasundara: Mister... Lord Brockway has been a vegetarian his life long.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's very... That's a good advancement for spiritual understanding.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But that is due to his lack of God consciousness. He'll talk very high words, but practically he cannot do it.

Śyāmasundara: No information.

Prabhupāda: Yes, no information. Just like the commu... Even in communist country. They, they are thinking that national, everything should be national. So what is the meaning of national? Means any living entity born in that country is national. So why the poor animals are not nationals? That is, means lack of God consciousness. He does not know. He thinks simply human being national.

Lord Brockway: Oh, I agree. I'm a vegetarian.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Thank you. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So this is all due to lack of God consciousness. Therefore the only remedy is to make people God conscious, thoroughly, perfectly. Then everything will be all right.

Lord Brockway: That I don't accept. God consciousness plus understanding.

Prabhupāda: Now, God conscious means understanding. Without understanding, how there can be God consciousness?

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: Yes. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya means vairāgya (BG 18.66).

Reporter: Yes, means vairāgya.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise we are embarrassed with so many dharmas. Social dharma, political dharma, national dharma, international dharma, this dharma, brāhmaṇa-dharma, śūdra-dharma, so many. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharma.

Reporter: All of them.

Prabhupāda: All give up. This is vairāgya. Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā (SB 1.2.12). Jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. The bhakti-yoga means, jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. Jñāna and vairāgya there must be. Can you find that verse?

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
(SB 1.2.11)

Pradyumna:

tac chraddadhānā munayo
jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā
paśyanty ātmani cātmānam...
(SB 1.2.12)

Prabhupāda: Paś... Tac chraddadhānā munayo jñāna-vairāgya-yuktayā. Jñāna-vairāgya... Without jñāna-vairāgya you cannot make any spiritual advancement.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, but Jesus does not says "human being". He just said generally: "Thou shalt not kill."

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Cardinal Danielou: (French) In the Bible we have many example of, by example, we have many sacrifice in the sacrifice of animals. You know. Many sacrifice of animals in the Bible. Alors. This is not forbidden. It is sure that it is a great sin to kill a man, alors. There is surely the great question of the war, the war, the national war. And is, it is...

Prabhupāda: You, you, you think that to kill an animal is no sin?

Cardinal Danielou: No, no, no. No sin. No sin. No sin. Because we think that the simple biologic life is not sacred. That is, what is sacred is the human life, the human life. But not the life, ass.

Prabhupāda: But I think that it is interpretation. Jesus Christ says generally: "Thou shalt not kill."

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Jesus said, but this phrase is not, the text is not a text of Jesus. It is a text of the Old Testament, and it is a text...

Prabhupāda: No, it is New Testament also.

Cardinal Danielou: Old Testament! Old Testament.

Prabhupāda: No, is it not in the New Testament?

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: American, they cheated the Red Indians. They got the land. Now they are claiming, "It is my land." But where you got this land? You have cheated the Red Indians, and you claim now it is your land. "Nobody should come here." Everywhere that is there it belongs to... Napoleon, he thought, "France is mine." France is there. Where he has gone, the proprietor? Yes. And with this idea he fought so much. Now nobody knows what he has become, where he is living, either in France or in hell, maybe in heaven. But there are so many places and so many forms of life. And our Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. Just like I am now in this body. Child is in this body. So all of us sometimes were in this body, childish. So where is that body? That body is not existing. But I am existing; you are existing. You know that you had such a body. You were also playing like this child. I also remember. So the body is not existing. I am existing. So I have got a different body now. So where is the difficulty to under-stand that when this body is also finished I get another body? Where is the difficulty? And Bhagavad-gītā says, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptiḥ. As we are changing from one body to another, another, another, even within our experience, similarly, as soon as this body is finished, I get another body. Now I am working in this body as national, as Napoleon, as Gandhi, as you according to our own whims and ideas, and fighting in the UNESCO, everything, just like recently Pakistan representative, India... But as soon as the body is finished, just like Gandhi finished, Jinnah finished, now what kind of body he has got now? May not be Indian or Pakistani. Now in that body he is thinking according to his body, a dog is thinking according to the doggish body.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Seventy-one, I was, I think, there. I might have gone to India on leave. I returned in March, the end of March. Because I don't remember the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. I went there in June, 1971.

Ambassador: And did you stay in the city, or did...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, in National Hotel. One Madrasi gentleman...

Ambassador: I remember now, sir. Abhiyarthe(?) Natarajan.

Prabhupāda: Nataraja, yes.

Ambassador: Mr. Natarajan Rao told me because I was away. I was away in Central Asia. I remember his telling me. And Natarajan looked after.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: I see.

Prabhupāda: So you have heard something about our movement?

Ambassador: General, generally, in general.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not this? So if you kindly help in this way. That is within your power.

Ambassador: I'll simply write. Of course.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there is no use of writing. You can do it. We can immediately submit some of the names. And you can give us.

Ambassador: Of course, from Sweden, I mean, it depends upon the nationality. People can go for three months without any visa.

Prabhupāda: No, that is different thing. But missionary visa. From missionary... When there's missionary, there is no question of any particular country, because we have got men from different countries. Our men, ISKCON representatives, they should be given missionary visa when they want to go. That is my... That much help I want.

Ambassador: Who is the representative in India? Of this...? In Delhi, of your organization? In Delhi?

Prabhupāda: In Delhi?

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. Tejas.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: But is there any special, specific person who wants to go to India immediately?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: Who would like to have visa?

Prabhupāda: No, we can give you the names if...

Ambassador: I see. Please give me the name and the nationality. I can immediately (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes. So you can submit immediately some of the names. Because we are organizing there, and the security department there: "Oh, your visa is now complete. You please return."

Ambassador: I know.

Prabhupāda: But who... We have got now temples. Who will manage that? Big, big temples I have constructed. In Navadvīpa, in Hyderabad.

Ambassador: Navadvīpa... Of course, Navadvīpa is...

Prabhupāda: In Vṛndāvana.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Chuckling:) That's all right. I thank you.

Indian Man: Mr. Bose, representing National Herald.

Haṁsadūta: Maybe you can move this...

Prabhupāda: Oh, ācchā. (Bengali) Now, now, Mr. Bose... Let him come first of all. Give him a chair. Mr. Bose, let him come.

Reporter (3): I'll come back later.

Prabhupāda: Yes, three minutes. He's old man.

Reporter (3): Yes.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Haṁsadūta: Shall I take this away?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Bengali)

Mr. Bose: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (break) She's waiting? Then I shall come.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Guest (3): Yes. Therefore the duty's also in the strongroom.

Prabhupāda: Just try to understand that you must know how to discharge your duty. Because you do not know what is duty, therefore you are placing so many other duties, "Nationality, this is, this is..." kṛṣṇa-bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become devotee... Just like your son. Is he not maintaining his family, is he not respecting his father, mother, he is not doing his duty in the service, he is doing his spiritual master? But the main principle is that he is devotee of Kṛṣṇa. So if you become devotee of Kṛṣṇa, you can discharge your duties properly; otherwise you cannot. It is not possible. If you want to pour water, leaf after leaf, it will be useless waste of time. But if you pour water in the center, on the root, it will go everywhere. Because he is devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he knows how to discharge his duty towards his parents, how to discharge his duty to his wife, how to discharge his duties towards his spiritual master. He knows everything. But one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he does not know. He is simply confused. Sometimes jumping here, something jumping there, something jumping there. He does not know how to pour water.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: That's only because I'm going to New York next week. Only reason.

Prabhupāda: That is not other reason. There are many officers of your bank might be living there?

Banker: National and Grindlay's bank officers are there. Several British companies have officers there. I was the only American for awhile.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you'll be moving out there again when you come back?

Banker: No, I've been transferred to New York. I'm in a hotel because my things are packed.

Prabhupāda: You are going to New York?

Banker: Next week. I brought Bhanu, so in the future if you need any help, you just see her in the bank. She's interested and aware.

Prabhupāda: She's going also with you?

Banker: She will be in Bombay. She's at our main branch.

Prabhupāda: You are working in the bank?

Lady: Yes.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The meditation you can do, just like we are also doing meditation, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. But meditation as it is, to absorb the mind fully in God's vision, that is very difficult nowadays, at the present moment. People's mind is very disturbed. They cannot actually meditate. Therefore in this age, meditation, chanting the holy name of the Lord, that is recommended, congregationally. Just like we do, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma... So there is no need of dark room. Just like this boy. He is also a responsible officer in New York. He is also chanting. All these sannyāsīs. And we have got all these beads. So there is no need of meditating in darkness. We are going on the open street. We are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare Hare Rāma... There is no difficulty. Neither we have to select a dark place. Anywhere. Just like I am talking with you, they are chanting. Their chanting is not stopped. So why should you go to a dark room? It is open thing. And it is open for everyone, in any moment. There is no hard and fast rule, that "You have to do like that, do like that." Simply you have to chant, anywhere possible. Suppose if you leave this room, you go on the street, you can chant, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare... Nobody... There is no taxation. There is no loss. But the gain is very great by chanting. And this is recommended in this age, not sophistically to find out a dark room. No. It may be suitable for a particular person. But for mass of people, where is the facility of getting a dark room while going on the street? Suppose you are going on the street or in a car to your office, can you arrange for the dark room? But you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa without any dark room. So which is better? For concentrating your mind, for meditating, if you have to make so many facilities arrangement, and without any arrangement, if you can do, which one is better? Without any arrangement. That is Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Without any arrangement, immediately you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Without any consideration of your age, of your religion, of your country, of your nationality, of your color, caste, anything. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is being done, and the whole world is accepting. We are not recommending that "Go to a dark room." Neither it is required. Everything must be for mass benefit. That is only this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. What do you think?

Room Conversation -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you see, anywhere we can approach. I sold in Bombay all libraries, my previous Bhāgavatam.

Gargamuni: About Ten or twelve books, each bill is about five hundred rupees times twenty-five. That's a lot.

Prabhupāda: No, that is a respect, if the libraries and schools, colleges, they keep our books.

Gargamuni: Some of them are shocked. We went to the National Library in Calcutta. That's the largest library. They saw your books and they said, "Oh, he is doing this work?" They were so impressed. They had never seen Sanskrit or Bengali printed in foreign countries the way you have done in your books. They said, "This is fan..." There's no one else who is doing this in India, no one. Very impressed. And these men themselves are Sanskrit scholars. He immediately started to read. He said, "Oh, very nice." He said, "It is just right." So he was very enthusiastic. There are two boys. They spend the whole day just going to libraries.

Prabhupāda: That has been written by Professor Dayal, Dimock, that "Sanskrit scholars should get good opportunity, and nobody, I think, will deny Swamiji's scholarship." He has said that.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: The big zoo is in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, zoo in the Africa.

Sudāmā: Oh yeah?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) No, actually they go. There is a national zoo. Thousands of... Practically Africa's main income is from the tourists.

Śrutakīrti: Tourism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People go to see. You'll, you'll drive your car. You'll find lions, elephants, or...

Śrutakīrti: Recently one of Brahmānanda's men had an accident by hitting some animal on the road. Large animal, I think it was.

Prabhupāda: Oh, what accident?

Śrutakīrti: One of the vans. One of the devotees ran into an animal on the road.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Śrutakīrti: I'm not sure what it was.

Prabhupāda: No, the national garden means there is arrangement. The animals are free, roaming. But you can go with your car and...

Hṛdayānanda: Oh yes.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nitāi: Who went out of India?

Prabhupāda: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) So in politics this is nonsense, non-violence. It is nonsense, cowardism. In politics in sweet words you cannot get. There must be fight, arms. That is army. "If you don't agree, then fist." That is politics. There must be violence. Otherwise you cannot control. When there is educated good men, then you can argue. But when people are ruffians, there is no question of good... Argumentum vaculum, I told you the other day... (break) ...in the beginning of creation, the fight between the demons and the demigods, devāsura-yuddha. That is always there. In the European history, without revolution, no order changes. Even the Russian Revolution was there. French revolution was there. In England, Cromwell? Cromwell? Cromwell Revolution?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Does it mean you love the whole universe?

Guest (1): No.

Prabhupāda: Just like, just like nationalism. You are American?

Guest (1: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So you have got your nationality. You love your country. But why you kill cows? Is that love of universe?

Guest (1): If I love America?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You love your men, but you kill your cows.

Guest (1): Acchā.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Guest (1): Through ignorance. Men...

Prabhupāda: Then how you love the whole universe, if you are in ignorance?

Guest (1): You do your best.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, but really these people are, I mean, in their heart superior than others.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because their method of working is more honest in a way. If they get money then we get jealous of them because...

Prabhupāda: No, they, they are feeling nationally. They are feeling nationally. Yes.

Dr. Patel: Even though it is a nation of hodge-podge people from Europe, but still they are...

Prabhupāda: So therefore they have said United Nations.

Dr. Patel: Still, they are well-welded(?).

Guest (1): United States.

Prabhupāda: United States. Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma... (break)

Dr. Patel: ...over-clever or whatever you may call, but the American would be outwitted by a Gujarati baniya if he has got the same money, same, I mean, freedom of business and same facility to work. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the plan is to drive away the Gujaratis from Africa. (laughter) Yes. The Britishers are afraid. The Britishers are afraid that if the Indians, they are allowed to remain here, they will not be able to exploit the Africans.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because the sea comes here, right. Here is the water line, high water line, high tide.

Prabhupāda: And washes everything. That is God's grace. Without machine, they keep it clean.

Guest (1): Without taking any charge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...same thing is happening here in a different edition. That's all.

Guest (1): All are nationalized. Only men and women can...

Dr. Patel: They're also nationalized. Man is nationalized.

Prabhupāda: We consider according to our position in this material world, "This is good, this is bad." This is simply a mental concoction. Everything is bad. Only Kṛṣṇa is good. You are criticizing Russians. Why do you...? What is the, what is your state of...?

Dr. Patel: Russians are good people. They were a very good people... That is why... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...rascal... For some time, another rascal will come, another rascal...

Dr. Patel: Russians, technically, they are Russians. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...advertise, but do you know?

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Coal Corporation of India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's the general manager. He told me that "Workers, they are not working. Therefore we have to increase price." Now, when the, it was private concern, they were managing. They were working very nicely. Now, since it has become government concern, they are not working.

Dr. Patel: Same thing in...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: ...in nationalized banks.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: If you go there, you have... (break)

Prabhupāda: That is government, no responsibility. (break) ...kriyā hīnā. These governments are not... They are not reformed, and they have taken the post of government. Nobody can do(?). (break) ...today the political paper, Harmonist?

Girirāja: I read the... Shall I read it now?

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that others may hear. (break) ...you simply present the card anywhere—you get things. You don't require to pay. Then your bills will be paid by the bank. This is the system. (break) ...Bank of American card, in any American, bank of America, I can get one hundred to five hundred dollars immediately. I have got that card. (break) ...the respectable customers... Yes. (break) ...money, then you can squander it, and that is the idea. And you more spend money; then they manufacture consumer goods. That is the policy. (break) ...ṣad says, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) "Don't use anything more than what is allotted to you." That's all. But they are creating artificial demand, and the demand is being paid for by artificial paper. The government is issuing: "This is five hundred pounds or five hundred rupees," but it is paper only. Actually it is cheating. But we are satisfied. (break) ...said, "In God we trust." That's all. "In God we trust."

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: United Nations were created...

Prabhupāda: No, no, not only United Nation, united in everything, "universal brotherhood," whatever you call-here is the example.

Dr. Patel: So-called United Nations were created not for unity.

Prabhupāda: No, no, either so-called United Nation or so-called nation. Here is also there is nation. What do they know about nation? Everyone, he is interested with his own pocket. That's all. "What money is coming in my pocket." That's all. Where is the nationality? If there was nationality, why such havoc could have happened? Now the strike is going on. There is no feeling of nationality because they are not thinking of the nation; they are thinking of their own pocket, that's all. Where is the nationality? They are simply bogus slogans. Actual unity, nationality, universality, is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is a fact. Let them see. Men, women also. There are women also. We do not hate anyone. Come on. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: But that's giving it a name also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is my request to you.

C. Hennis: That's UNESCO. That I can't answer upon very fully. But I would suggest that they are, in that way UNESCO, United Nations through UNESCO, is very active in promoting culture and in stimulating philosophical thought. We are, on our side are more concerned with the place of the worker in society, and our organization is conceived along a peculiar model which we call the tripartite system. The members of our organization are states, not governments, but states, and each state is represented in our conference by two government delegates, one delegate of the employers and one delegate of the workers. And so the decisions that are reached, the same pattern goes down through the other organs of the organization. But the decisions that are reached in the International Labor Organization are thus not decisions which are only those of the government or the governing classes. They are decisions which represent a very broad consensus of opinions between both the employers and the workers as well as governments. And to that extent we do hope to find resolutions that have a very wide basis of ratification. After they are agreed upon by these three different elements of society represented in our International Labor Conference and in the other organs of the International Labor Organization, we endeavor to get the decisions ratified by national governments. Nevertheless the people who are here go back to their countries and try and get the decisions ratified so that a measure of uniformity in social justice and in the treatment of labor and protection of labor and in social security and in occupational safety and health and of all these things which are bound up with work and also payments to professional workers such as architects, nurses, doctors, people who work on a quite independent basis without being employed. It's not necessarily employees. Veterinarians and so on. The conditions of employment...

Prabhupāda: According to Vedic conception, the higher class of men, first-class, second class, third class, they are never to be employed. They remain free. Only the fourth class men, they are employed.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: Yes, but I don't think you can properly expect to indoctrinate people. I don't think that... At least, you can't expect an international organization to indoctrinate people on the national level. I'm sure that the...

Prabhupāda: No, it is not national. It should be international. Just like everyone... United Nation, it is meant for international activity. Our only proposition is that as the international organization, United Nations, they should keep a class of men who should act as brain. Then it will be all right. Without brain, simply legs and hands working, no direction, that is not very good.

C. Hennis: I think you'd have to see the secretariat of the United Nations and the United Nations family of organizations, not so much as leaders and bosses and generals, if you like, but rather as the servants of mankind. I don't go...

Prabhupāda: We can see provided we get the chance.

C. Hennis: I don't consider myself to be a leader of mankind. I am very much a servant of mankind with a view to helping people to reduce the differences between them, with a view to helping people to understand one another better. In my own particular branch in which I'm concerned we endeavor to make people understand one another in the manner of an interpreter, if you like, to show, to allow people to speak and understand with one another, and to enable them to comprehend each other's problems and understand...

Prabhupāda: No. If there is actual brain, there is no problem. Just like if I have got good brain... I want to take this thing in my pocket. But if I have got brain, "No, this will be stealing," then I can refrain from it. But if I think that "It is lying here. I can take," what is that?

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...

Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.

C. Hennis: Yes, but there some people are better endowed with brains than others. Some people haven't got brains or not much brains.

Yogeśvara: But at least the direction must have brains. That's the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The brain... This is the work of the first-class man, this is the work of the second-class man. Just like any organization, any office, "These are for these men, the class. These are meant for the superintendent. These are meant for..." Everywhere, there must be organization, not that everyone should work whimsically. No. There must be a managing board, managing director. He is giving direction. Under his direction, everyone is organized. So the United Nations, such a great. This was organized for the total benefit of the human society, but there is no department which is actually can be called the brain organization.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. Therefore I said Jesus Christ is son of God, so what he says and what Kṛṣṇa says, there is no difference. This has become a hackneyed slogan, "poor feeding." To do to the humanity—and cut the throat of the animal. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy? They have no conception of God. If he has got conception of God, then everyone—paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Oh, why for the benefit of the human being, other animals' throat should be cut? Even they have no common sense. National. National means one who is born in that land. That is national. So why the animals born in that land, they are not national?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: You used a very nice example, that the children, they are ignorant but that does not mean you kill them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Is there any meaning, "Oh, these are foolish children creating trouble, so I will kill them"? What is this?

Yogeśvara: There was a story in Time magazine last week. Everyone was in a big flurry about it. An airplane crashed in the Andes mountains, and they were stranded way up in the mountains for eighteen days without any food. So there were maybe fifty people on the plane and only eighteen survivors. So because there was no food they ate the bodies. They ate the dead bodies to survive. Then, eighteen days later they were saved. A plane came and picked them up and brought them back. So people are very, very much excited, "Oh, what is this amazing occurrence, that they ate human flesh?" But every day they are eating...

Prabhupāda: Cow's flesh. When it was?

Yogeśvara: This was about... Now it is almost a month ago, one month ago.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: I have not said that you dress like that. You like, you do it. Did I say that you do it?

Priest: It's like the Indian Catholic priest dressing like a (indistinct) priest or like a European priest. I mean, they look as if they had a disguise with them.

Prabhupāda: No, no, just like when the English were ruling, English national. So the Englishmen never said that "You dress like Englishmen," but they automatically dressed. You know very well. They do like that. The Englishmen, they went there to get some money by trade, by politics. But they never went there to change their dress. But they thought that "If I dress myself like Englishman, I will be more honored." That is their point. Similarly, we never preach that "You dress like this." But the student, they like this dress. That's all right. What is the wrong there?

Priest: It's not wrong. It's funny.

Prabhupāda: Rather these girls, when they dress in Indian way, they look more beautiful. That you will have to admit. Yes. The same girl will dress in your...

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Monsieur Mesman is the chief of the law-house of Paris.

Prabhupāda: Law-house means legislative assembly? No.

Yogeśvara: It is part of the National Assembly?

M. Mesman: Yes. It is in the National Assembly. It is National... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Just like we have in our country, "Legislative Assembly".

Yogeśvara: (French)

M. Mesman: (French)

Yogeśvara: Yes, like that. (French)

Prabhupāda: But they're not necessarily lawyers.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: And according to Vedic understanding, one who does not understand what is soul—he identifies himself with this body—he is animal.

Church Representative: This is also a fundamental idea of Christian spiritual. (French)

Prabhupāda: So in the Vedic language, one who has taken this body as self, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13), and sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu, and own men, the family, society, community, national, not outside that, sva-dhīḥ, "They are my own men." sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and the land of birth worshipable, nationalism, yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicit, and holy place, to take bath in the water of Jordan or Ganges, such persons are considered as go-kharaḥ. Go means cow, kharaḥ means ass. That means animals. What is your conception of the soul? Do you believe in the soul? (French)

Yogeśvara: He understands English.

Church Representative: I understand. My conception of soul?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Material nature is the mother. Material nature gives the body. But the soul is part and parcel of God. A soul is given, impregnated in the material nature, and they come out in so many species of life. How easily it is explained. So self-realization we explain that samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, equality to all living entities. But because they have no spiritual knowledge, they think that humanitarian work means to give all facility to the human being and not to the animals. We are talking of nationalism. National means anyone who has taken birth in that land. That is the definition of nationalism. But they are taking care of the human being who has taken birth in that land, but poor animals, they are being slaughtered. This is their nationalism. So all, everything is going wrong account of wrong conception of life. And that wrong conception of life is that "I am this body." But when we understand that "I am not this body; I am the active principle within this body," then this misconception will go out. That is the beginning of spiritual realization, or self-realization.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: There is a hierarchy of consciousness, of course, but it's not...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) if I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be (indistinct) It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That you have to see (indistinct). Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They do not think that they are American or Indian or so on, or Hindu, Gujarati(?), kṣatriya.

Guest: Of course there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That consciousness will not help you...

Guest: It won't.

Prabhupāda: ...that will rather check you.

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But that is imperfect idea. Our philosophy is everything belongs to God. So unless they come to this conclusion, they'll remain imperfect. The equal distribution of wealth, everything belongs to God—that is very good idea. But if it is limited within certain area... Just like the communistic state. Besides that, this is imperfect in the sense, they have no idea who are nationals. Not only they, even the capitalists. National means those who are born in that particular land. So there are animals also. They are also national. But because they are imperfect, either the communists or capitalists, they do not accept the animals as nationals. They are sent to the slaughterhouse. These things are happening because they are imperfect. They have no God conscious views. They have crippled views. They are imperfect.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How it is possible? He's an old man and the wives are young. But they have got dozens of children, and he is trying to give each child five lakhs of rupees. That is to keep the wife. Everyone is trying that. Natural affection, beget children as many as you like, and then bring money and give them. That is (indistinct). This is that heart disease. How you can stop it? The rascals, they do not know it cannot be done. The lower class, still they are maintaining. Manager class, the worker class. That is going on. That higher and lower level must continue in the material world. You cannot stop it. Individually, nationally, communally.

Devotee (1): They have simply taken the sides of the low class against the upper class.

Prabhupāda: That is a sympathy. But you cannot change it. That is not possible. It is very good sympathy.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Devotee (2): Every once in awhile someone we meet when we're distributing books comes and joins us for prasādam, one time a businessman and one time a soldier. Various people sometimes join us. We take a 12 o'clock, 12:30 lunch break. Sometimes we'll be joined by one of these people we distribute books to.

Prabhupāda: When you were with Maharishi? Come here.

Doug: I joined the Maharishi in 1969, and at that time I was living in Washington, D.C. And his national director came, gave a lecture, and they said that they needed some help because they didn't have a center there. So I organized the movement out of my parents' house. I had the center, and I established lectures at all the colleges and started the movement there. And later on, they finally sent some full-time teachers, and they established a center there. And then I started to be with Maharishi and his different courses and doing extensive meditations for long periods of time. And then eventually he formed a committee. This was in 1971-72. He started to form a college called M.I.U., Maharishi International University. And he started to invite educators, and he wanted to... And he also had this...

Prabhupāda: "M.I.U." means Maharishi...?

Doug: Maharishi International University. And so he started to formulate a curriculum. He was trying to present Vedic studies in Western terms. And so he formed this council of the executive called his executive council. It was called The 108. It didn't have 108 people, but this was what he called us.

Prabhupāda: One hundred...?

Doug: The 108. He called it The 108, but the official term was the executive council. And that's what I was with...

Prabhupāda: How many students are there?

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on. They are very good politicians.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Ceylon, oh.

Ambassador: India's too big to kill, so it lived. But Ceylon was practically finished. There is nothing of its own left. They had to reinvent it after they got rid of the British.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ambassador: They'd lost their dance. They'd lost their... Everything really national had gone.

Prabhupāda: That was not...

Ambassador: Even Buddhism had gone. It was revived by foreigners.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Dutch. Dutch people, there were.

Ambassador: Germans especially. But now may I ask you while I have the chance? You have had so much to do with bringing the dharma to the West. What is your idea? What is your mission? It seems to me, in many ways there is a transfer of the essential spirit going West, because the interest is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: There is a hierarchy of consciousness, of course. But it's not...

Prabhupāda: So that consciousness should be without designation. If I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be effective. It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That we have to give up. Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They are not thinking. They do not think that they are American or they are Indian or Canadian or African or Hindu, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vai..., nothing of the sort.

Ambassador: Of course, there can be ambition that is essentially ego attached to an idea of achieving consciousness also.

Prabhupāda: That consciousness will not help him. That will rather check him.

Ambassador: Yes, exactly.

Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, if I die with designation, then I will have to accept again the body. So the mind is the criterion, contamination. We get different types of body on account of mind being contaminated.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Servant. God is supreme, we are all subordinate. God is maintaining us just like father maintains. So it is the duty of the son to be obedient to the father, to act according to his order. Then everything is perfect. At the present moment on account of this bodily concept of life every one of us thinking nationality and duty of nation, duty of the community, duty of the family, so many duties. But actually we, being spiritual, our only duty is to serve God. We are serving; everyone is serving. That is our constitutional position, to serve. But at the present moment we are serving māyā, illusion, and we have to be trained up to serve the Supreme Being. Then our life is perfect. (break) ...at the present moment, although there are many religious system, they have no clear conception of God, although religion means to approach God. There is no religion throughout the whole world which is not connected with the word God. So religion means to understand God. But if we have no clear conception of God, then the religion is defective. Do you admit it or not? Religion means to understand God or God's laws. That is religion. But if we do not understand what is God, then that religion is also defective. So far our position is, we are approaching directly God through His agent, and our conception of God is there in the temple worship or our working for God. But we have got no vague idea of God. We have got complete idea: Kṛṣṇa. You want to speak anything?

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: And sometimes it can become polluted.

Prabhupāda: And the whole devotional service means ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). That is the recommendation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, cleansing the dirty-politically, socially, communally, and internationally, nationally... In this way, it is all contaminated. So that, that is called upādhi, unnecessary. Just like water. You bring the colored water. That is contamination, not crystal. So these are different colors. So you have to strain the water from different colors. Then that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Consciousness is already there. So instead of thinking Kṛṣṇa, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's," I am thinking, "I am my family's. I am my, my cat's, my dog's, my nation's, my community's..." This thinking is opposite Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when you simply think that "I am Kṛṣṇa's," that's all. That is all.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Jayatīrtha: So, so the agenda...

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Devotees: Jaya.

Conversation with the GBC -- March 27, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Jayatīrtha: I think so.

Prabhupāda: Everyone may hear.

Atreya Ṛṣi: I... The same pledge, that the Indian gentleman has written, where it says, "Prabhupāda, I, Mr. So and So, karmī name, initiated name in parenthesis, date of birth, at present residing at, of certain nationality, do hereby solemnly affirm, declare and state as under as follows: I state I have been elected or nominated a member of Governing Body Commission, under the recommendation of my Guru Mahārāja, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder and ācārya of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness Movement..."

Rūpānuga: Supreme Authority.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Shall I...

Satsvarūpa: Yes, Prabhupāda wanted it...

Rūpānuga: Ācārya and supreme authority.

Atreya Ṛṣi: It's down... There as well?

Jayatīrtha: There as well.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:
Tamal-kṛṣṇa: The drain inspectors?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sewage inspector report. These things will go on. So long people will remain in darkness about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these things, rubbish things, will go on. I'll find out fault in you; you'll find out fault in me. That's all. Because the basic principle of material civilization is envy. I do not like you; you do not like me. That's all. Envy. Everywhere, individually, nationally, socially, familywise—everyone is envious. That is the material disease. And therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇam (SB 1.1.2). Those who are interested in superfluous religious system, cheating system of religion... Just like the Christians, they say that "Christ has taken contract for all our sinful activities."

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): Americans.

Prabhupāda: Americans want this place to fight with the Russians. So if American comes directly in India, that "We want to fight," then India would not agree. Therefore they're keeping with these foolish rascals, Pakistan. And they're insulting. They're... Not insulting. They're naturally enemy of... not to let them... The Vietnam and everything, Korea, all these things. Not to allow the communists to become very powerful. That is American political policy is going on. And the presidents may change, but the national policy cannot be changed. Therefore they want fighting between Pakistan and India. So Russia... Actually that happened. Russia will come to the help of India. That arrangement is already there with Indira Gandhi. Naturally they'll come to help Pakistan. And then between the big two.

Devotee (1): That's why you said this morning that India will suffer more than any other country.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: The last time there was a war between Pakistan and India the American government put their whole fleet and aimed their guns at India.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They wanted to help Pakistan. But when the Russian came, they took time. Otherwise, fighting would have begun at that time.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Governor: Coordination.

Prabhupāda: Coordination. As head is also trying to maintain the body nicely, this arm is also. Now this has been nationally centralized. So that is the idea. Not that "Because I am head, brāhmaṇa, oh, here is a śūdra. Oh, don't see his face." Why? Śūdra is also required. Leg is also required. Head is also required.

Governor: It is an harmonious coordination.

Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Paramahaṁsa: They say if they feed them a special diet they have found it changes the cholesterol level in the beef, so if they eat it, they won't get heart attack like they used to. And it says, "The director of the National Heart Foundation, Ralph Reeder, said he believed the process was one of the most significant contributions in recent years toward controlling heart disease. 'It should not be taken lightly by skeptics. It is a world's first,' he said."

Amogha: Now they are also thinking that different types of meat cause cancer, not only heart disease but cancer.

Gaṇeśa: What have the scientists got to gain by bluffing?

Prabhupāda: Position. Material world means they want some material gain, some adoration, and some fame. That's all. This is material world. So if by bluffing you I get some material profit and adoration and fame, why shall I not do it? Everyone is doing that.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: So he should first save himself, then think about how to save others.

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all he must know what will actually saving. That he does not know. He is thinking of his country. Suppose next birth he becomes a cow and his countrymen will send him to the slaughterhouse. So what is the use of having your country? The same country, the national... The cow is also national, you are also national, but the law is the cow is to be sent to the slaughterhouse. Therefore they have been all described as mūḍhāḥ, rascals, only rascals. Except a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, all persons are rascals. Do you admit or not?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is authoritative statement of Kṛṣṇa. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). So these classes of men do not surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he comes within these categories. This is a plain description if we believe in Bhagavad-gītā. All rascals.

Morning Walk -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha: Well is it divided by country or within one country there are many species?

Prabhupāda: You are taking of country, but the śāstra takes of the planets, not of the country. Your idea is very crippled: country, national. But śāstra is not... There is no such thing as national. They take the whole universe as a whole. They consider from that angle of vision. These crippled ideas, "state," "national," has come later on. There was no such thing previously. One planet or universe, like that. Just like last night the girl was astonished that "How this planet can be governed by one king?" It was being actually done. And the whole universe is being governed by Brahmā, one person. So one must know how to govern.

Devotee (1): We can see, Śrīla Prabhupāda, by the distribution of wealth and minerals in each loka, in each planet, it is meant to be governed by one ruler. One place there is gold, one place grain to grow. Is this true?

Prabhupāda: No. Everywhere there is everything, maybe proportionately in different quantities.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I joined this Gandhi's.

Dr. Copeland: You did? Had you met Gandhi?

Prabhupāda: I met several times, but not as personal interview. But I liked his movement, national movement.

Dr. Copeland: Why?

Prabhupāda: Young men, everyone likes politics. (Dr. Copeland laughs) Actually, later on, I did not like. When I was mature, when I met my Guru Mahārāja, then I thought all these things bogus. It has nothing, no value. Social movement, political movement, they are simply wasting time. Real movement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Copeland: Why do you think a large number of people followed Gandhi? Why did they like him?

Prabhupāda: Well, large number of people followed Lenin. They are not important. Neither Lenin is important, nor their follower is important. So I don't think Gandhi's followers are as many as Lenin's. So these things are not important.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee: He's a Communist.

Prabhupāda: His ideal is all right. His ideal, Communist idea that everyone should be happy, that is good idea. But they do not know how make ev... Just like they are taking care of the human being in the state, but they are sending poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Because they are godless, they do not know the animal is also a living being and the human being also living being. So for the satisfaction of the tongue of the human being the animal should be cut throat. That is the defect. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who is learned, he is equal to everyone. That is learned. "I take care of my brother and I kill you," that is not right. That is going on. Everywhere. Nationalism. Nation... National means one who has taken birth in that land. But the animal, poor animal, because they cannot make any protest, send them to the slaughterhouse. And if there were ideal men, they would have protested, "Oh, why you are doing this? Let them live also. You live also.

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Madhudviṣa: So many people are anxious to come into the house to see the work in the construction of the house. And it has been classified as a building of national importance.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The building is known everywhere.

Madhudviṣa: Oh yes. It is important building. They cannot... It is not allowed to be torn down. It is protected by the...

Prabhupāda: Historical.

Madhudviṣa: Historical building. It is protected by the government.

Śrutakīrti: Yesterday you were telling Bhūrijana they should make the temple a tourist attraction. So with this method, it would be very easy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 2: I think that would probably solve a lot of problems because...

Prabhupāda: Yes, all problems. Now, suppose in India there is scarcity of foodstuff. In America, in Africa, in Australia, there is enough grain. Produce foodstuff, distribute. Then immediately whole nations become united. Use everything, God's gift—we are all sons—very nicely. Then the, all the problems solved. Now the difficulty is that we have made, "No, this is my property. We shall use it, nation." In the Vedic conception there is no such thing as national. There is no such conception. That is the idea, Vedic conception of society or politics. There is no question of national.

Guest 1: You're thinking more of an international world than a national world.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest 1: I don't think anybody would disagree with that. I certainly don't.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that we want to do: one God, one state, one scripture, and one activity. That is the ultimate end of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Just like we are from different countries. We don't think as nationalism, that "I am American," "I am Indian." No. We all think that "We are all servant of Kṛṣṇa." And they are working in that spirit. It is possible. If this idea is accepted in that United Nation, it can be done. But they will not accept. They are going go be united, but everyone is thinking, "First of all my interest." All cheating. They are outwardly, "Now we have come to the United Nation," but no one is going to be united. Everyone is thinking, "It is my first interest first. I must give veto if he's opposing." This is going on. Therefore for the last twenty years or more than that, they are trying to be united, but it is becoming disunited. The flags are increasing. In New York they have got their headquarters. When I pass through, I see that another flag has increased.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1975, Honolulu:

Bali-mardana: Their condition is worse than the animals.

Prabhupāda: They have been described as dvīpada-paśuḥ, animals but with special difference: the animals, ordinary animals, they have got four legs, and they have got two legs. Dvīpada paśuḥ. Everything is there. And the Vedic civilization is no "Keep out," but even the enemy comes at your home, you receive him as very good friend. Gṛhaṁ satram api prāptam. "At your home, even your enemy comes, you should receive him in such a way," viśvastam akūto bhayam, "he will forget that you are enemy. He will be so confident, that 'I have come to a friend's house.' " This is Vedic civilization. And the Western civilization: "Beware of dog. Keep out." And actually they fire if you enter. And there is law that if he fires, you cannot stop. Trespassing. Private individually, private nationally, private communally—simply private. And when death will come, "No, sir. Keep out." "No keep out. Why you are here? I will keep it out. I will now keep it out." Then what you will do? When Kṛṣṇa will come and say, "I will keep it out now," what you will do? You have to go, go out. Finished, all "Keep out," "Private," everything finished.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...which is fact? The dreams and phases of different life while passing through, they are facts or I am fact? What is your answer? We are teaching that, you take care of the fact, not of the dreams. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are changing circumstances. The circumstances are not fact but the whole world is taking care of the circumstances not of the sheer fact. This is the defect of modern civilization. We are very much serious about the passing on circumstances, but we are not serious about the person who is going through the circumstances. This is the whole defect of modern civilization. And that is the beginning of real life. If we take care of the circumstances, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs, everyone. Where to find eatables, where to find sex, where to find shelter for sleeping, and how to defense—these circumstances are understood by the animals. There is no need of education. Just like this morning I pointed out. The bird is catching a small fish, "Fut!" He knows where to find out his eatable. And that you cannot do. You also eat fish, but you jump over and take a fish. You cannot do that. But he can do that. He is more expert than you. (guests chuckle) Yes. In the troubled water, he is flying. He can see a small fish and immediately pick it up. Can you do that? So he is more advanced in civilization. (laughter) He knows his techniques. He is greater scientist than you. You cannot do this. A vulture goes seven miles up, and he can see where is a dead body. So even amongst the animals there are many expert scientists than our so-called scientists. But what that science will help? That science may help how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex. That's all. And that is being done by the animals. It doesn't require any advanced scientific knowledge. Real scientific knowledge is who is God, to know. That is meant for human being, Not this where to find out a fish very expertly. That is being done by a bird. Where is the use of scientists and philosophers? Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra the indication is there that "Now you have got this human form of life. Find out where is God." That is real science. That we have set aside. That we do not touch. That we have left to the sentimentalist. Why don't the scientists do not take up this work very seriously, "If there is God, where He is? Who is God?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, athāto brahma jijñāsā. So you are all learned scholars. You join this movement and help us. To keep people in darkness, that is not advancement of education. And education does not mean how to find out a fish expertly. That is being done by the birds. Education means to solve the problem of life. And what is the real problem? Birth, death, old age, and disease. That is real problem. So where is the remedy for this birth, death, old age, and disease? That is the instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). We are trying, our struggle for existence means we are trying to mitigate how to avoid distress. We want happiness. And Kṛṣṇa presents that "Here is your distress, that you have to die. What you have done for this? Here is your real distress. You might have taken your birth in rich American nationality or might have very good skyscraper building and very, very, nice motor cars. But you will be kicked out at any moment, sir. What you have done for this, that you will be insured for all this enjoyment. Where is that insurance? You are so busy in these affairs, but where is your insurance that you will be allowed to enjoy this?" This is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You have seen it?

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Picking up food. (break)

Satsvarūpa: ...got another report from that national library convention. They have a big sign that the artist has made and it says, "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, the World's Largest Publisher and Distributor of Books in the Philosophy, Religion, and Culture of India." Has that on their booth. And many professors and librarians come. They have given out four hundred catalogues. Mostly they don't buy on the spot. They take this catalogue back to their library. And they're from all over the country. From every part of the country they go there.

Prabhupāda: So catalogues being distributed.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. They're taking them. Then they take them back and check them off. And the librarians are saying, as soon as they see our booth, they say, "Any books on India and yoga and meditation, there's a great demand for them. Many young people want to read about."

Prabhupāda: But we have got the largest number of books.

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No other yoga system.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Viṣṇujana: According to national statistics, as far as curing drug problems and crime problems, it's seen that social organizations that are supported by the town councils, etc. are usually about 3% effective in cases cured of either drug addiction or crime. But as far as religious organizations are concerned, some of them are 70, 80% effective in cases that have been attempted cure. So it's, as far as percentage cured, the process of introducing God consciousness is much more effective than some social reform or rehabilitation work or something like that.

Prabhupāda: No, social reform will automatically come. The first-class reform, the brāhmaṇas, if their advice is taken, then the other classes the kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdras, they become automatically.

Mayor: We're aware that a religious approach is more successful and our mental health society here is funding the Reverend Perry who is a black ordained, I think, a Baptist protestant minister, formerly a drug addict. And he's been working out with, especially with the blacks who have drug addiction and he achieves much more success than other agencies.

Prabhupāda: Which process? Drug addiction has been helped by somebody?

Brahmānanda: No, the mayor's saying that the administration is not against supporting religious organizations.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Śrī Govinda: They would like to interview you and tape record possibly for using in one of their magazines.

Prabhupāda: Jayatīrtha, you can come here. If required, you will reply. What is that?

Jayatīrtha: This is the article that Mrs. Wax has written, and it was published in Harper's. It's one of the big national magazines. It's about Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayatīrtha: It's nicely written.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayatīrtha: It's called "Raise Your Hand if You're an Eternal Spirit Soul."

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Both sides forest. (break) Now in America there is no sufficient men to live in all these places, to cut, clear it and make cottages and utilize the land for producing. There is no sufficient men, I think. And where there is overpopulation, why not invite them to come here? That they will not do. (break) ...has given sufficient land for all the people, but we have made artificial national area, will not allow.

Guru dāsa: In India this would all be utilized for living.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These places also should be allowed to the people who are overpopulated. No visa, no immigration. The whole world is simply mismanaged for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Pramattaḥ, the word used, pramattaḥ, mad. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma: (SB 5.5.4) "All people mad and engaged in misdeeds only for sense gratification." (break) ...this room?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: I don't know, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Now it is just used for garbage.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...all like this, jungle?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes, all along this creek there's a forest like this. This has been done in Philadelphia all along the river, and this huge area of land has been set aside. It's like this. No one can use it except to take walks. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The question that I wrote to Śrīla Prabhupāda, the answer that Śrīla Prabhupāda gave me was that the cells in the body and the jīvātmā that resides in the heart, they are different living entities. But my understanding was directed to the relationship between the two, the jīvātmā in the cells and the jīvātmā in the heart, how they are related, how they...

Prabhupāda: They are separate identity.

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: No, kamam vavarsa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4).

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yes. Purport. "The basic principle of economic development is centered about land and cows. The necessity of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly King Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the cause of all varieties of production on the land. Regulated rains not only help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and the warfields at the whims of a particular man? It is said here that the cows used to moisten the pasturing land with milk because their milk bags were fatty and the animals were joyful. Do they not require, therefore, proper protection for a joyful life by being fed with a sufficient quantity of grass in the field? Why should men kill cows for their selfish purposes? Why should men not be satisfied with grains, fruits and milk, which, combined together, can produce hundreds and thousands of palatable dishes. Why are there slaughterhouses all over the world to kill innocent animals? Mahārāja Parīkṣit, grandson of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, while touring his vast kingdom, saw a black man attempting to kill a cow. The King at once arrested the butcher and chastised him sufficiently. Should not a king or an executive head protect the lives of the poor animals who are unable to defend themselves? Is this humanity? Are not the animals of a country citizens also? Then why are they allowed to be butchered in organized slaughterhouses? Are these the signs of equality and fraternity and nonviolence? Therefore, in contrast with the modern, advanced, civilized form of government, an autocracy like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's is by far superior to so-called democracy in which animals are killed and a man less than an animal is allowed to cast votes for another less than animal man. We are all creatures of material nature. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the Lord Himself is the seed-giving father and material nature is the mother of all living beings in all shapes. Thus mother material nature has enough foodstuff both for animals and men, by the grace of the father almighty, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. The human being is the elder brother of all living beings. He is endowed with intelligence more powerful than the animals for realizing the course of nature and the indications of the almighty father. Human civilizations should depend on the production of material nature without artificially attempting economic development to turn the world into a chaos of artificial greed and power only for the purpose of artificial luxuries and sense gratification. This is but the life of dogs and hogs."

Prabhupāda: Now men are killing their own children. Is it not? Even cats and dogs do not do this. Although they give birth at a time half a dozen children, still they are not anxious to kill them. (pause) So I am coming in one minute. Please sit down. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Why you are there?

Mr. Surface: I must leave. Thank you.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let them say what is there. Then you can talk with them.

Brahmānanda: They say, "I love God. I go to church every... Once a week I go, Sunday morning. I make my prayer. So what more? I have my family. I have my job."

Vāsughoṣa: But I was reading in this National Geographic Magazine, there is one sect of people in New York City, very orthodox following. They don't even go to cinema. When they have free time they are studying the śāstras, their śāstras. They are very strict. They don't even shave their faces because it says, "Do not round the corner of your face." So they have these big beards like this, and their whole life is dedicated like this to reading and... They also sing and dance.

Prabhupāda: That is something good.

Brahmānanda: When I was a teacher in New York I taught in one of their schools. I taught the little children... (break)

Prabhupāda: After that, he is fit down(?). Then, if life member comes, he can simply stay in the guest room without any charges for three days.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right, but...

Dr. Patel: He always used to, daily, twice...

Prabhupāda: In the beginning this is the... You can have any yoga, anāsakti or āsakti, but the primary instruction is one has to understand first of all this, that one is not this body. And the national movement is based on this bodily concept of life. "I am Indian."

Dr. Patel: All the national... All the world's on that body.

Prabhupāda: So that is the difference. First of all one has to understand that he is neither Indian nor American nor English. But if you go on pushing on national movement, where is the chance of understanding that you are not this body? Just like our movement, we never say anything national. We simply state that "You are not this body. You are spirit soul."

Dr. Patel: Gandhiji, when he went to one first round table conference in London, and he had to confront those women, I mean the wives of the workers of the Manchester mills, he said that "We are poor." They say, "We are poor. We are suffering for the poor of India." Then he had to give this argument that "Poors of India are much poorer than what you are." So he is trying to..., I mean, take a...

Prabhupāda: So that is bodily concept.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: He remains an animal. Just like a dog is thinking, "I am dog." So similarly, if I think, "I am Hindu," then what is the difference? Or if I am thinking, "I am this or that," with the bodily conception of life... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). If one is thinking in terms of bodily conception—"I am this body"—and based on this foundation, sva-dhī kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, our family, society, national, so many things we are building up on this bodily conception of life... So,

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

Such person is no better than the cow and the asses because he is giving his identification with this body, which he is not. And Vedic realization is ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am not this body; I am spirit soul." And the Bhagavad-gītā explains,

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām
(BG 18.54)

One, when he is on the platform of Brahman realization, then he becomes jubilant, prasannātmā, na śocati na kāṅkṣati. That life is required, Brahman realization. That is education.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. Carlisle Street is the Arya-samāj temple. (laughs) So…

Prabhupāda: "So if you make propaganda and pay money to go against the Hindus and incite them"—gradually it developed. And the money was being paid by the Britishers. And he saw that money is coming. He had no feeling, national or… He wanted money, that's all. For money you can purchase anything nowadays.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did the British build all so many railroads?

Prabhupāda: For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything. They’re starving. Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe… Potato only, That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is your father's servant that you do something wrong and Kṛṣṇa has to check it? Is your Kṛṣṇa your father's servant? Then why do you ask this question? If you allow somebody to cut your head, has Kṛṣṇa to come to save you? Why do you ask this nonsense question? You are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Samo ’haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu. If you cut your own head, what Kṛṣṇa will do? In the same term, nationalism, as Vedic culture is Kṛṣṇa's national affair, your disease is there. Why Kṛṣṇa will come to save the Vedic culture? What business He has got? If you are spoiling it, then why Kṛṣṇa will come? Spoil, and suffer. (break) … the same question in a different way, "Why India? Why Kṛṣṇa?" as if Kṛṣṇa is Indian. Kṛṣṇa is Indian? Then why do you ask this question, that “Kṛṣṇa will come to save India's culture?”

Bhargava: Not the Indian culture but the Vedic culture, Kṛṣṇa's culture.

Prabhupāda: Vedic culture, He has given, Bhagavad-gītā. Why don’t you accept it? You don’t accept; then suffer. He has given His instruction. The government gives you the law. Now, when you violate, the government will come to stop you? You violate and suffer. Why do you expect that "When I violate the laws, the government men will come and stop me?" Why do you expect like that? Eh? The government can give you the law book. You consult and do accordingly. You’ll be happy. And if you don’t, against, the government man is not coming to stop you. You do and suffer. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whenever there is discrepancy, I come." That is general, not for India. Vedic culture is not for India. It is for everyone.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1975, Nairobi:

Cyavana: Fighter jets.

Brahmānanda: Fighter jets, four of them only. And during the national celebration they fly in procession. So one of them fell down, killing the pilots.

Prahupada: Just see.

Brahmānanda: These are very old jets that were supplied by the British. (Prabhupāda laughs) They're so proud of their four airplanes. Now they only have three.

Prabhupāda: Could not replace the other one.

Brahmānanda: I don't know if they've replaced it or not.

Cyavana: That's the British scheme.

Brahmānanda: They give them these things to "civilize" them.

Prabhupāda: (chanting japa—break) Nice. (break) You have meeting in this park?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Just on the other side of the road, the city park.

Cyavana: We used to come here on Sunday with that truck and have meetings in the afternoon.

Brahmānanda: Prabhupāda came here.

Cyavana: Yes. There was one meeting one Sunday.

Prabhupāda: (break)...the name of this park?

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the first education, first instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, beginning of Bhagavad-gītā-dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Unless one understands that "There is change of body and I am spirit soul within this body," he remains a cat and dog, and that's all. Dehātmā-buddhiḥ. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). So we are keeping this civilization—animals. How there can be peace? You cannot make several dogs, bring them together as nation, and they will live peacefully. It is not possible that "You all dogs come here and feel nationally and be peaceful." Will the dogs will be able to do that? Because you are dog, it is not possible.

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: He says that you cannot bring life, but you can bring death immediately. Why is that?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Death? He's already dead. What you can bring? Rascal, don't you see that he is already dead? If you have to bring something you have to bring life. Death is already there. (dog barking, woman yelling) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Bhāgavata has analyzed, yasyātmā-buddhi kunape tri-dhātuke. And this is the beginning of mistake, taking this body as everything and then bodily issues, bodily... Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. And because I have got relation with some woman... There are thousands and millions of women, but because I have got bodily relation with some woman, I am so much attracted. That is due to the body. Actually I am not attracted to the woman. There are many millions of women, but that particular woman, wife, because I have got bodily relation with her, I think, "Oh, she is mine." Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. Kalātrādiṣu, beginning from kalātra, then go on—children, grandchildren, father-in-law, mother-in-law, this one, this one. The beginning is the kalātra. If there is no kalātra, there is no father-in-law, mother-in-law. So sva-diḥ kalātrādiṣu. Then bhauma idya-dhiḥ—"This is my country. I am national," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this." Why? The body has grown from this land. You see, every, the whole world activities is going on on this basis. Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu bhauma idya-dhiḥ. Idya. Idya means worshipable. The brain is full with this idea, dhiḥ. Dhiḥ means buddhi. The brain is congested with all these ideas.

Morning Walk -- November 12, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The bodily consciousness is also material. That is also one. And the soul consciousness, spiritual, that is also one. That is ekatvam. So for a learned person there is no defect. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, paṇḍitaḥ samaḥ (BG 5.18). This is the... So anyone who is under the bodily conception of life, either human beings or dogs, they are the same. But that upādhi amongst human being is stronger than the cats and dogs. The human being, being advanced in consciousness, they are making this nationalism. But it is nothing but dogism. Is it not? That's all. The so-called national people are sacrificing so many lives, so many politicians, Napoleon and these big, big leaders. But what is their business? Business is that doggish mentality: "I am this body." So it is very difficult to give up this doggish mentality that "I am this body." Very, very difficult.

Dr. Patel: That is ahaṅkāra.

Prabhupāda: False ahaṅkāra. Because he is not body, it is false ahaṅkāra. So śāstra therefore says, bhagavad-bhakti vihinasya jati japas tapaḥ kriya. A person who has not developed Kṛṣṇa consciousness, for him this advancement of nationality, big work, industry, so on, so on, so on, jati japas tapaḥ kriya... Kriya, these act...

Dr. Patel: Activities.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is not in his interest because it is changing. Suppose a person comes to a foreign place, and he becomes only interested in where he is staying, and after a week he is driven away. Then what is interest? You are eternal; you must have eternal interest.

Dr. Patel: That education comes from the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that there is no education. They do not know what is interest. They are making a small limitation, that "This is my country. My interest is to become a national. I will sacrifice my life for this, that, this..." Whole world is going on like this. Na te vidhuḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum.

Dr. Patel: And, mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is brahmacārī. Where is that education?

Dr. Patel: This education are given to the Vaiṣṇavas in their homes. They are Vaiṣṇavas. But then so-called Vaiṣṇavas, many of them they are ruthless. Ruthless, absolutely ruthless...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct), kṣatriyas, there is no (indistinct) kṣatriya...

Dr. Patel: No, what I mean to say...

Prabhupāda: ...everyone is śūdra.

Page Title:National (Conversations 1968 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:07 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=99, Let=0
No. of Quotes:99