Prabhupāda: That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, in the Vaikuṇṭha. There are women. They also, men and women there is, and they also go by airplane, fly in the sky for trip, and all of them are devotees to Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa associate. So these things are described. So similarly, amongst the gopīs also. So in the spiritual life there is nothing like this sex pleasure. And the more we forget sex life, that means we are advancing in spiritual life. So this should be the attitude, that women, Godsisters, they should be nicely treated so that they may not feel any... After all, they are weaker. That should be our policy. Anyway... And if somebody agrees to marry, oh, that is welcome. There is no objection. Marriage is allowed. And so many married couples, they are very nicely living. Those who have gone to London, they were not married in the beginning, and I got them married. Similarly, here also, Harṣarāṇī and others. In New York also, Balāi dāsī, Advaita. So if the boy and girl agrees to marry, it is very nice. There is no objection. If not, they should be given all protection. Is that all right?
Narayana (Conversations 1968 - 1973)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two hundred... How much was it?
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: There was 200 dollars that... She was going to take 25 and send to her brother. The 200 dollars is not... No one knows where it is now. It has not appeared. And she had 30 dollars about of her own money. And this 200 dollars belonged to another girl that was going to give it to Upendra dāsa for the temple.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Temple. It was left on the table. Now no one can find it.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: No one knows where it is now. So she may have taken this 200 dollars.
Prabhupāda: Then it is guessed that she has taken?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is guessed that she has taken.
Naranarayan: Uh...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this material world is perverted reflection of the original energy. So this "Hare" means we are directly approaching the original energy of the Supreme Lord. "Please accept me, under You. Now I am under reflection. I am trying to get substance from the reflection." Suppose a tree is reflected by the bank of a river, the exact. So if somebody dives into the river and tries to take fruit from that tree, it will not be possible because that is reflection. One has to go to the real tree. So we are hankering after life, we are hankering after pleasure, but we are seeking pleasure in the reflection, māyā. Therefore we are frustrated, confused. Therefore this prayer is to the original energy. Without energy, without energy the Lord is not without energy. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, Sītā-Rāma. So God is always with energy. Without energy, he is incomplete.
Prabhupāda: So I'll offer one day sweet rice to Kṛṣṇa in this pot. I have asked already Govinda dasi to make little sweet rice and offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then the pot will be used. Yes. (break) ...India still, amongst the Hindu family, whenever they use some new thing, household, they'll offer first of all to the Deity. Every family has got Deity. Every Hindu family, especially the high class, brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, they must have Nārāyaṇa-śilā. You know Nārāyaṇa-śilā? Śālagrāma.
Janārdana: Stone.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is worshiped in every family. Arcye śilā-dhīḥ. Śilā means stone. So arcye, the worshipable... I think this is correct.
Janārdana: Yeah, it's correct.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now after... This is the process. He... First of all, he offered his respect to his spiritual master, then Nārāyaṇa. Yes. Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not first to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but first to the spiritual master, and then Nārāyaṇa. Yes. Just like he was asking.
Gargamuni: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Through. Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam (SB 1.2.4). Yes.
Gargamuni: Oh, that's his master.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Naraṁ caiva narottamam devīṁ sarasvatīṁ. Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning. And Vyāsam, and then Vyāsadeva, who is the master of Vedic literature. One after another. This is... Vyāsaṁ tato jayaṁ udīrayet. Then he is... He was questioned by the audience that what is the most important religion in this age? That was their question. There are many types of religious principles. So what is the best one for this age? So he is replying that question. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṇgalam (SB 1.2.5). "You have put very nice question, because you have put the question that 'What is the best religion for the people of this age?'
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. No, worship is the same, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. Only Rāmānuja-sampradāya, they worship Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa because it is sampradāya from Lakṣmī, so they worship...
Allen Ginsberg: Nārāyaṇa is another name for Śiva?
Prabhupāda: No. Nārāyaṇa is Viṣṇu. That is Kṛṣṇa's expansion.
Allen Ginsberg: According to Caitanya, Viṣṇu is an expansion of...
Prabhupāda: Of Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: Of Kṛṣṇa.
Allen Ginsberg: Where is the origin of this image of the sun? Where is the origin of this image of the sun? Is this a Vedic śāstric explanation?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There is śāstric information. He is incarnation of Nārāyaṇa, Sūrya-nārāyaṇa. He is powerful. He is driving in four horses. He has got chariot of four horses and very powerful. Yac cakṣur eśa savita. Savita, his name is Savita. The Gāyatrī mantra is oṁ bhur bhuvaḥ svāḥ tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi. That is worshiping the sun-god.
Allen Ginsberg: Do you use Gāyatrī mantra also?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Allen Ginsberg: I know some of it. Oṁ bhur...
Prabhupāda: It is simply adjustment. You can make very nice scene. Everything can be done nice, provided we arrange for that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Nara-nārāyaṇa, he is very good at building scenery. He can do all of that very quickly.
Prabhupāda: So you'll play in the stage or make studio?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better that we play either in a big area so we can be right in the middle of people. People will be all around.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. That will be very nice.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because then we include them.
1970 Conversations and Morning Walks
Himāvatī: Śrīla Prabhupāda? I just have one question about the ending, that Ajāmila, he was calling the name of his youngest son.
Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa.
Himāvatī: He was thinking but he was calling out to him, and after calling, he was reminded of his early life, of his worshiping the real Nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa.
Himāvatī: And therefore Nārāyaṇa saved him. Isn't that true?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa.
Himāvatī: And therefore Nārāyaṇa saved him. Isn't that true?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Himāvatī: Not that he was simply calling and Nārāyaṇa had to save him...
Prabhupāda: But simply calling, "Nārāyaṇa," he reminded, he remembered. Remembered. Yes.
Himāvatī: He remembered the real Nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Because actually when one chants Lord Kṛṣṇa's name, Lord's name, immediately he remembers Lord's form, activities, pastimes, everything. That is natural.
Prabhupāda: That is the remark of Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. But according to others' opinion, even simply by chanting, that is sufficient. In the Bhāgavata it is stated like that. But Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura has remarked that this chanting referred to the context. Immediately he remembered Nārāyaṇa.
Himāvatī: In that same connection, the story of Ṭhākura Haridāsa and the harlot. She began to chant and told him the reason that she was a prostitute, she was no good and simply by that association she began to chant or by previous association...
Prabhupāda: No, by association. By the influence of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. For three days, three days she associated.
Prabhupāda: No, they don't make any spiritual advancement. They come down. Don't you see this impersonalist, Vivekananda? He took sannyāsa; he came to hospital-making, came back. They are not advancing. They are coming back, falling down. While they have no engagement in devotional service, they say, "Oh, why you are finding God anywhere? Here is God, daridra-nārāyaṇa, these poor men." That's it. That is not advancement. They are coming down. Now, they come down and they defame Nārāyaṇa, that "Nārāyaṇa has become daridra." He has found Nārāyaṇa is daridra.
Revatinandana: What is that word?
Revatinandana: What is that word?
Prabhupāda: Daridra. Daridra means poor, poor. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. This is manufactured word by Vivekananda. They are so proud that "When a beggar comes at your door, you should treat him as Nārāyaṇa, daridra." These are simply high-sounding words. What they are doing actually for the daridras?
Revatinandana: So that is service in the mode of ignorance.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Revatinandana: That is service in the mode of ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They cannot serve. All these welfare activities of the world, what they are serving? That I explained this morning. They are trying to give help to the poor, but the number of poor is increasing. They are trying to give medicine or relief to the suffering patients. The patients are increasing. Hospitals are increasing. But if our number of temples, Kṛṣṇa temples is increase, that is something sound.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point. Vivekananda has no distinction of eating. "Eat any... All Brahman, all Nārāyaṇa. You are Nārāyaṇa. Goat is Nārāyaṇa. So Nārāyaṇa is going in the belly of Nārāyaṇa. What is the wrong? One Nārāyaṇa is going, being absorbed by another Nārāyaṇa." But he is not agreeable to be eaten by a tiger, another tiger Nārāyaṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: "One Nārāyaṇa is being absorbed by another."
Prabhupāda: One respectable pleader in Allahabad, I said, "Why you are eating this?" We also find that he's a very religious man. So I inquired. He was just like our father; still, I inquired. He said, "No, what is the wrong there? Nārāyaṇa, Brahman. So one Brahman is going into the belly of another Brahman, Brahman being absorbed, brahmeti." So they have got so dangerous theory. But still, we shall not hesitate to kick on their face but because they are making a propaganda, it should be peaceful. But I become very much agitated with this nonsense because I know they are creating havoc. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (door closes) So many rascals. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Ohh.
Makhanlal: For the festival.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you are Nara-nārāyaṇa's brother. (devotees enter and pay obeisances) Hare Kṛṣṇa, come on. Nara-nārāyaṇa is very nice boy. Everything is all right? Where is your center?
Devotee (1): Tucson.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Devotee (2): Tucson, Arizona.
Prabhupāda: (more devotees enter) Come on. How is Govinda dāsī?
Devotee (3): She is improving.
Prabhupāda: That, that depends on your affection. Bhagavān has got many forms. If you want, if you love Rāma, that's all right. If you love Kṛṣṇa, that is all right. If you love Nārāyaṇa, that is also all right. But Bhagavān mūrti, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu.
Guest: Along with Rādhe? (Hindi) (laughter)
Prabhupāda: That is incongruency. Rāma with Sītā.
Guest: Along with...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Guest: Kṛṣṇa along with Rādhikā.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa with Rādhārāṇī.
Prabhupāda: Para-tattva.
Guest: Means?
Prabhupāda: Para-tattva is Bhagavān. Para-tattva means Kṛṣṇa, Rāma, Nārāyaṇa, Viṣṇu. These are para-tattva. Bhagavān avatāra, rāmā, nṛsiṁha, varāha, kūrma, vāmana, daśāvatāra, all avatāra. (Hindi) Or śakti-tattva, material energy, aparā-tattva, matter. Similarly cit-tattva, spiritual world. The living entities, although they are in the material world, they belong to the spiritual world. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam. This material energy is inferior. Itas viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. Beyond this there is another, superior energy, jīva-bhūta, that is jīva.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam they have been described as vimukta-māninaḥ, that "I have become now liberated, māninaḥ." Self-complacent, thinking that "I have become now liberated. Now I become Nārāyaṇa, God." These Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, they address among themselves as namaḥ nārāyaṇa. That means each one of them has become as good as Nārāyaṇa, because Nārāyaṇa is mukta. Nārāyaṇa paraḥ. Śaṅkarācārya says paraḥ. Paraḥ means liberated. Paraḥ and aparaḥ. Aparaḥ means conditioned. So nārāyaṇa paraḥ, avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇa is transcendental to this cosmic manifestation. He's above. So the Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that "I have become now a liberated, as good as Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead." But Bhāgavata says, "No. You are simply thinking like that. You are rascal." Bhāgavata challenges: "You are thinking that you have become now liberated, but you are a rascal." The Bhāgavata, Vyāsadeva is very learned, but he says "rascal," but in a very sweet language. (laughter). Vimukta māninaḥ. Māninaḥ: "You are contemplating." Why? Tvayy asta, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas (SB 10.2.32). Our test is there. "I am liberated. I am Nārāyaṇa."
Prabhupāda: Why? "How you call me rascal?" Yes, we have got a test: ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Tvayy asta-bhāvād. Still they have not reached the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Simply impersonal idea, and self-complacent that "I have become now Nārāyaṇa." So this kind of knowledge is aviśuddha, impure, impure knowledge, because the test is, unless one comes to the point of understanding the Personality of Godhead, the knowledge is imperfect. So they are impersonalists, and falsely thinking themselves as Nārāyaṇa. Therefore we can immediately test that "Here is a rascal." Vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. "No. We have undergone so much austerities, penances. Whole life I remain brahmacārī, then I took sannyāsa. I have followed the rules and regulations very strictly, and still I am rascal?" Yes, you are rascal. (aside:) Don't make sound.
Devotee (1) (lady): His first teaching is that, "Love the Lord thy God with all they heart, with all thy might, with all thy (indistinct)."
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: He is also saying that, "I have no will but to do the will of my father who has sent me, and that everything I am saying are not my words but are the words of Him (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Complete surrender.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. But they do not follow and still they say they are Christians. They do not follow. Christ is all right. According to the time, according to the country, according to the atmosphere, he's all right, but the followers, they reject.
Devotee: Everlasting hell.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It means that, so far as I remember, Prabhupāda, in the Bible it says that at the time of judgement...
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Judgement, the judgement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a judgement...
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: You rise from the grave in the time you are judged.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, all of the souls then rise for judgement and accordingly they either go to heaven or to hell.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Or into an intermediate stage where they can gradually go up to heaven. Limbo, I think.
Devotee (2) (lady): The ultimate desire of a Christian is to be with Jesus, is to go to be with him. That is their ultimate desire. Not necessarily to be with the Father, but to be with Jesus.
Devotee (3): What do they do with him?
Devotee (2): By leading the Christian life.
Devotee (3): I mean when they go to him, what do they do?
Devotee (2): (indistinct)
Devotee (3): See the idea is that you could not remember perfectly 'cause the taste is gone, the līlā is death mostly. But it isn't death, the basics are there, but they're teaching death. And so any intelligent person says, "I want to go to Jesus, but then what do I do? If it is everlasting hell, then heaven must be also everlasting, but what do we do?" And if it's void, then it will not keep the people interested, therefore people are leaving religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very good reason. There is no hope, better go to hell. (laughter) At least there is something. Never mind. Yes, hopelessness is not good.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Actually, that is their philosophy, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I've heard people say exactly that, "All the things I want to do are for the people that are going to hell, therefore I want to go to hell. Why should I go anywhere else?" (indistinct) drinking, smoking, etc... And so they will.
Prabhupāda: There was a story that the priest was describing about the hell, so they did not respond. But when he said, "There is no newspaper," then, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) Other conditions—that it is dark, it is very moist, and so many things described. But they were miners, they know that these things are happening daily, so what is the wrong in the hell? Then he stressed, "There is no newspaper." Then they will, "Oh, it is horrible." (laughter) So, according to one's taste the hellish conditions should described.
Prabhupāda: But generally the Christians they are very much confident that all of our sinful actions they have been absorbed by Lord Jesus Christ so we can do anything.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they say the Christian religion is very good. Very good means that Lord Jesus Christ has taken contract for absorbing all their sins and they go on committing. Is that not idea in the Christian religion?
Devotee: Yes.
Devotee (1): They say all our sins have been washed away by the blood of Jesus.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I know, Prabhupāda, that in Seattle you had me lecture on a newspaper clipping that in New Jersey they had opened up one home for alcoholic priests. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Five thousand, five thousand priests, they are suffering from alcoholism. (indistinct)
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: The American hippies actually are following these sādhus. Certain persons, like Allen Ginsberg, have brought back impression that this is what the sādhus...
Prabhupāda: But they do not know that they are not sādhus, they are rogues.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Sādhu means devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is sādhu.
Devotee (3): We are also opening up homes for habituated japa-mālā users, who are also intoxicated, but in a spiritual way.
Prabhupāda: Huh? (break) That is required. (laughter)
Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: Not... So many things. So, if you do not follow the principles of Christianity, simply by stamping yourself as Christian, will that do? So why Jesus Christ will be responsible for you? Simply by stamping yourself that "I am Christian." Is that very reasonable proposal?
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Lord Jesus himself never claimed that he would be responsible. As a matter of fact, he would heal certain persons who by their karma were blind, or lame deaf, or some disease, even dead, he would bring them back to life, so many things. And then when he healed them, he invariably said after, he said, "Now go thou and sin no more lest the worst thing befall you." And he has been saved by Jesus personally, yet Jesus is saying, "lest the worst thing befall you." How can the worst thing befall you if everything he does then is all right? So that means Jesus does not take that responsibility.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why he should be responsible? If you are not a Christian, why he should be responsible? Now, here he says that "Now you have sinned, full reaction I have washed, don't do it again."
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: But they are going to church, confessing every week, and doing the same thing. Who is a Christian, first of all find out, then Jesus Christ will take responsibility.
Devotee: They are gambling and eating flesh right in the churches, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, I mean to say, if you don't follow the Christian principles, how you can claim yourself to become a Christian and how you can ask Jesus Christ to take responsibility for you? These are misleading, therefore people are coming disgusted. Otherwise Christian religion is all right. It teaches love of Godhead, teaches to become moral, it teaches to love people, that's nice. These are good principles.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Devotee (2): They lived by the ten commandments, or were expected to, way before Jesus appeared. The ten commandments are Moses, Moses' teachings.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: They were all very much meat-eaters, though. In the time of Moses all the laws of kashruth, how to sanitary slaughter, which is supposedly given by God, these were all for meat-eating.
Devotee: That came after the Book of Misrad. Misrad recommends vegetarian.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Really?
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: Jaya!
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, even you do ordinary killing, vegetable killing, you are killing so many germs. So in higher sense if you take this principle of Bible, "Thou shalt not kill," that means you must eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, otherwise you will be killing. And whichever you do, it will be killing. So our process is perfect, take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Hm?
Viśākhā: What happens to the jīva souls who were fruits and vegetables that were offered to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is jīva also. I say that even vegetable you are killing, but that killing responsibility goes to Kṛṣṇa. We are killing for Kṛṣṇa. Suppose in the vegetable there is life, but we are preparing food for Kṛṣṇa.
Nara-Nārāyaṇa: I think she wants to know what happens to the soul. Supposing that a plant, we are killing the plant and offering in prasādam to Kṛṣṇa. The jīva soul who is living in the plant, what happens to him?
Prabhupāda: Because he is killed for Kṛṣṇa's purpose so he gets immediately liberation.
Devotee (lady): This is a very sinful life they're living unless we offer everything to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Not anything. Kṛṣṇa, whatever says (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam (BG 9.26). You can offer these things which is asked by Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: Do they just get liberation or do they go directly to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Just like we can say frankly that the Ramakrishna Mission, they are collecting money, huge money from your country, here also, to mitigate the sufferings of the poor people, daridra-Nārāyaṇa seva. But actually you see that how many poverty-stricken people are there in India, and if you go to the Ramakrishna Mission, you will see all the swamis, they are living in royal order. This is going on. But people are still fool that... But your American people now, they are questioning. That one swami, Nikhilānanda, he told me personally that the American people now are questioning that "You collect money for feeding the poor, but when we go to India, we see so many people lying down on the street." So they are questioning. Naturally there will be question. So... (aside) Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chuckles) So our Jaipur party is becoming stronger and stronger. So what news from Delhi? (end)
Prabhupāda: But we have tried to explain how He is person. Just like we try to explain how God is working. So one should have brain to study things. One must have clear idea how God is person, how He is working, how this cosmic manifestation is manifested by God's energy. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). "In My impersonal feature, everything is manifested there." Tatam idaṁ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). So one has to apply his brain—that is intelligence—how it has become person. That is not false, that is fact. You cannot understand; your brain is teeny. That is different thing. Now you make your brain competent to understand this philosophy. (break) ...vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So take this philosophy nicely, understand this philosophy, and preach. You will be victorious everywhere, because we can challenge anyone. If you know the trick, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can challenge. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). One who is nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, he is never afraid of anything.
Prabhupāda: Otherwise, it will go to the category of anyābhilāṣitā, material desire-jñāna, karma, yoga, (indistinct). And bhakti is so pure that it has nothing to do with material activities or speculative, or mystic yoga, it has nothing to do. Just like gopīs. Anyā... They had nothing to do with all this nonsense, karma, jñāna, yoga. They are neither yogīs, nor very learned scholar, Vedāntist, nor very good businessmen, economist, simple boys and girls. But their devotion is exalted. Because they did not know anything beyond Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is their love(?). Never mind to know that Kṛṣṇa is God or not, it doesn't matter. Then they don't, they didn't care for God also. Gopīs, when they say Nārāyaṇa, "Oh, He's Nārāyaṇa." (laughter) (indistinct) Nārāyaṇa, they have nothing to do with Him. They are searching after Kṛṣṇa and when Kṛṣṇa presented Himself as Nārāyaṇa, four-handed, they neglected. And before Rādhārāṇī, He could not remain as Nārāyaṇa. Automatically He handed (indistinct). (laughter) Hands are folded.
Prabhupāda: And we are, Nara-nārāyaṇa has been engaged to make it a nice garden. All vacant land, we are getting nice garden, and the owner of the land, he has given me the best facility. First of all, the land is worth minimum 30,000,000 rupees.
Devotee: Thirty lakhs?
Prabhupāda: Thirty lakhs. But he has given me for fourteen lakhs. And that's also by instrument, in three years, or four years, without any interest...
Devotee: Who is that man?
Prabhupāda: Mr. Nair. Mrs. Nair. She is, she is also very nice devotee. So every year four lakhs of rupees, in three years, or four years, fourteen lakhs, without any interest. So we have got good facility. And in Vṛndāvana, some gentleman has given us the land.
Prabhupāda: He has got different forms, Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, many other forms, Govinda, Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving you the opportunity, you Americans. Now you are taking Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be the most opulent nation of the world. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa both. You have got Lakṣmī, but if you take Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī will be permanent. Lakṣmī will not go. And if you reject Nārāyaṇa, then Lakṣmī will stay for some time. That is Cañcalā. Her name is Cañcalā. The British empire has failed, the Roman Empire has failed, the so many empires, the Mogul empire has failed, because they wanted Lakṣmī, not Nārāyaṇa. If you take Nārāyaṇa, your Lakṣmī will stay. Just try to convince your countrymen, just like President Nixon. It is Kṛṣṇa's desire that I was dictated to go to America, because Kṛṣṇa wants that you should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa wants. So you have taken. Now spread. It will be grand success. And there are so many candidates, very nice. All right, go on, take... (end)
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: I am always (indistinct) to this, my American disciples that you are so much, I mean to say, taken care by God (?), this is... Your position is very good. Now you take to Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, and you become a perfect nation. That I preach always. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, you have got everything. All material opulence. Now make it plus Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be very nice. Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. So, these boys are trying, very sincerely and seriously, and I hope, even I do not live many more years, they will carry out this order.
Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) coming down (indistinct) should be (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And our (indistinct) Mahārāja...
Prabhupāda: Just like we are seeing this ocean. We find it a vast ocean. But this vast ocean is nothing but a drop of water in the universe. There are so many, thousands or millions of vast oceans in the sky. So therefore the sky becomes the biggest. Then again, if you try to find out what is the bigger than this universe. We get information that these universes are coming out from the nostrils of Mahā-Viṣṇu. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam... (Bs. 5.48). Just like with our breathing so many germs are coming out and going. So these all these universes are coming and going. So long it is exhaling, the universes are coming out. And inhaling, all finished. Then He becomes the biggest. Then you search out wherefrom this biggest personality comes? Then you come to Saṅkarṣaṇa. If you come to Saṅkarṣaṇa, then you come to Nārāyaṇa. If you come to Nārāyaṇa, then you come to Baladeva. If you come to Baladeva, then you come to Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Kṛṣṇa, the biggest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Understanding that in the spiritual world... In the Vaikuṇṭha planets, we get that all the inhabitants are four-handed forms of Nārāyaṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes, exactly like Nārāyaṇa. Their bodily features... Just like here, you cannot distinguish by the bodily feature who is President Nixon, who is a common man. You cannot distinguish by the bodily feature. Similarly, there also, you cannot distinguish who is a common man and who is Personality of Godhead. They are like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still, there are plants and all the living entities in the Vaikuṇṭha...
Prabhupāda: Their philosophy is that there is only one-God. So cats and dogs, that is God's līlā. That is their rascal philo... God is making pastimes, līlā, by becoming a dog. That is their rascal philosophy. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. Vivekananda's philosophy. Nārāyaṇa has become daridra, poor. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So with chemists we have no quarrel if they begin from light. They're beginning from darkness. That is our contention. We say, "Begin from light." And they say, "No, begin from darkness." Because they're in darkness. One who is in the darkness, from darkness, if he goes to light, he thinks that the darkness is the beginning.
Paramahaṁsa: In comparison, they always compare.
Prabhupāda: No, no comparison. It is practical. Suppose you have been in the darkness for millions of years and when you come to the light you think that "Oh, from darkness the light has come." Light, when it becomes dimmed, that is darkness. Not that (from) darkness, light has come.
Guest (3): Swamiji, tomorrow is Gaura-pūrṇimā. And a friend of mine, his father, or his mother died on Ekādaśī day. Husband and wife were, they had been fasting Ekādaśī doing Satya-nārāyaṇa-kathā. So now father, he is very lonely, and he said, "I have got no guru." Then I told him about you. So he immediately grabbed the idea. He wants to come tomorrow, in the morning to have your blessings. But then is it possible that he could have the initiation?
Prabhupāda: Well, let him come. First of all let him understand...
Guest (3): That man already comes. But tomorrow is Gaura-pūrṇimā. That's why I thought if tomorrow...
Guest (8): If he deserves it.
Prabhupāda: So let him come tomorrow. We shall see.
David Lawrence: Hm-hm.
Prabhupāda: He also says, nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. Nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ. So there is paraḥ. Paraḥ means superior. Nārāyaṇa belongs to that superior nature. That means spiritual nature. Yes.
David Lawrence: This is a knowing habit of the western mind, you know, to think in spatial terms, and it's possibly hang-ups from Christian theology, in a sense, that I wanted to persist with this questioning even further about, you know, the real nature, as far as the Bhagavad-gītā gives it to us.
Prabhupāda: No, you have to become little free from the biased ideas of Christian philosophy.
Revatīnandana: (break) Is it possible that if he was... This is a question that sometimes a devotee has asked me. If a yogi does attain a Vaikuṇṭha planet, but by his constitutional nature he is meant to be associated with Kṛṣṇa in Goloka...
Prabhupāda: No, why not with Viṣṇu. Vaikuṇṭha is Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa. That is also... But there Nārāyaṇa is worshiped with awe and veneration. He is God. No friendship as in Vṛndāvana. That is not possible. Vipralambha-sakhya. Aiśvarya, aiśvarya, opulence. There the Supreme Lord is taken in aiśvarya, opulences. Not aiśvarya-sthiti. In Vṛndāvana the devotees, they practically do not know that Kṛṣṇa is God. "He is our very beloved friend." That's all. They doesn't care to know whether He is God or not. Here the conception of God. Vaikuṇṭha, "Oh, here is God," with awe and veneration, respect.
Revatīnandana: What about like the case of Bhīṣmadeva where he knew about Kṛṣṇa in Goloka, and he went to Kṛṣṇa as Pārtha-sārathi.
Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa... He understood Kṛṣṇa as Nārāyaṇa. He will go to Vaikuṇṭha, Bhīṣmadeva.
Revatīnandana: But he had full knowledge of everything as a mahājana. He knew also...
Prabhupāda: But he loved Nārāyaṇa, Catur-bhuja.
Revatīnandana: Yes, that was his constitutional position. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Just like sometimes mādhurya-rasa is the greatest humor...
Revatīnandana: Who?
Prabhupāda: Mādhurya-rasa, conjugal love. But still, there are devotees who prefer parental love, friendly love. That is liking. Everyone has got his own liking. But they are all the same, all the same. There is no difference between Kṛṣṇa devotee and Nārāyaṇa devotee. They are all the... But it is their liking, varieties of liking.
Revatīnandana: Another related question that also arose... These come in Bhāgavata class with the devotees because they think about the questions and sometimes they come up with nice ones. When Kṛṣṇa is incarnating in His plenary incarnations like Varāha, Nṛsiṁha, like that...
Prabhupāda: That is in this material world.
Prabhupāda: On the principle, they never... Just like Śaṅkarācārya and Rāmānujācārya. He's impersonalist, personalist, but both of them accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You'll find from their notes, comments on Bhagavad-gītā. Śaṅkarācārya, although he is impersonalist, he says nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt: Nārāyaṇa is beyond this cosmic manifestation; He's transcendental. That means he says He's person. Nārāyaṇa, as soon as Nārāyaṇa, the Personality of Godhead. So we have nothing to touch in the spiritual understanding. He's talking of the material understanding. His philosophy, he started the philosophy, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Reporter: Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā.
Prabhupāda: These rascals, they meditate, "I am moving the sun, I am moving the moon. I am this, I am that." This is their meditation. So 'ham. So they are rascals. And how you can become the Supreme? As soon as you have got a toothache, you have to go to the doctor. And he was thinking he was supreme, nonsense. Rascal. (break) ...bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa. These are Māyāvādīs, those who are after, "I am the Supreme." They are Māyāvādīs. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, "Anyone who hears the philosophy of Māyāvāda, he is doomed. He is gone." (break) ...teaching, "Why you are seeking after God?" Just like Vivekananda taught, "Oh, why you are seeking after God? Don't you see so many gods are on the street? They are hungry. They are lame. They are daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why don't you worship them?" This is Māyāvādī. So if we take Vivekananda's version, and be engaged in the service of the daridra-nārāyaṇa, then I am misled. (break) ...preaching this daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā for hundreds of years, at least one hundred years, but still, there are daridras. Even in the city like Bombay, still. Fifty years ago, I came. I saw there are the residents of the footpath, having a small... Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was going to die, still he was asking, "Give me a cigarette." He does not know anything else. Therefore one has to practice. Ante nārāyaṇa-smṛtiḥ (SB 2.1.6). At the time of death, if you can remember Kṛṣṇa, then your life is successful.
Guest (2): This is very nice.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Simply if you can... Just like Ajāmila. He simply chanted, "Nārāyaṇa." Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. He was saved from the greatest danger. So this human form of life should be so trained up that at the time of death you can remember Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, now you can judge what I have done for you, and what you have done for me." Then give me that place. That's it." That... If you have worked whole life for Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is not ungrateful. He'll give you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are not God conscious, they are thinking like that. Now, suppose in the hospital, there are many patients. They are starving, many patients in the hospital. Do you know that or not? So why don't you give them food? They are starving. Why? Why don't you go to the hospital and you'll find hundreds of patients, they are starving... So similarly, why you are bothering? You are not bothering the hospital because you know that is right, they are starving. That is the physician's prescription. They must starve. So if you know God, then you will understand that you cannot help anyone. They are put into the starving condition under certain condition. So you cannot help them. You are simply thinking that "I will help." There are hundreds and thousands, millions of people starving. What you can do? Even if you try to give some something. Just like this Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, to serve the poor Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa has become poor. These are manufactured things. This is not with reference to the authorized śāstras or knowledge. What they can do?
Prabhupāda: They raise subscription, huge subscription, on this plea, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. And Swami Nikhilananda in New York, he personally said, "Now these Americans ask me that you take from us so much money for daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, but when we go to India, we see all these daridra-nārāyaṇas are lying on the footpath." What you are doing for them? What you can do? You are simply thinking falsely. What you have got to give? Just oil in your own machine. Try to understand God, instead of thinking foolishly, "Oh, what I shall do, this? What I shall do, that?" First, of all try to understand the situation.
Lady: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Hindi (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes. They are śūdras. Therefore, because it is the society of śūdras everywhere, there is confusion. No brain. Simply śocati, "want, want, want, want, want." And in brahminical culture, you will find even he is very poor brāhmaṇa, no source of income, no fixation of foodstuff even, but he is happy. He is happy. He is happy by his knowledge. He'll satisfy himself. If he does not get his food, then he will think that "This day Kṛṣṇa desired that I should not have my food. Oh, it is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy." Therefore in Vedic culture, other section, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they would call the brāhmaṇas to take food. Brāhmaṇa-bhojana. Because they know, "The brāhmaṇas, they will starve; still they will not ask anybody to give him food." Therefore brāhmaṇa-bhojana. And now they have discovered daridra-nārāyaṇa-bhojana. There are so many things. Vedic culture is the perfect for human society, perfect culture. And this is not bogus humbug, go into the darkness and do something nonsense. It is everything open, in the śāstra, in the book.
Prabhupāda: No, that... Without your attempt, somebody has become rich, just on his birth. It is due to your help? A man is born immediately millionaire. So it is not your humanity work. He has got it. And similarly, a man is immediately turned into pauper. You cannot save him. So what is the meaning of your humanitism? You cannot do anything. Vivekananda is crying so many. Rascals, they are simply collecting money and eating themselves. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. And all the daridras are lying on the street. So these are only humbug. It has no meaning. You cannot do anything.
Prajāpati: Actually they are so demoniac, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are advocating so many birth control, and so many things, and they say this...
Prabhupāda: Simply rascaldom. Simply. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). They are going to the darkest region. Because they are killing, they will have to suffer. That they do not know. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The blind man going forward will fall into the ditch. So this is their rascaldom.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: When you came to the western world, no one anywhere believed that it would be successful I think. But actually, it has become very successful, by preaching.
Prabhupāda: I myself did not believe I shall be successful, what to speak of others, but because I did in the proper line, so it has become successful.
Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is so kind that we expect something and He gives us hundred times more.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes.
Yaśomatīnandana: So if we simply follow your instructions, then I am sure that it will come out glorious.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: So if we are in the proper line, then our political activities also can become successful?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? Kṛṣṇa was in politics. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all-round: social, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, everything. It is not one-sided. They take it as... They do not know. Therefore they are thinking it is a religious movement. No, it is all-including, all-including, all-pervasive.
Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.
Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.
Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually, when they formed the country and made the constitution, the concept was they were basically they believed in God, but they were afraid that some religion would become politically powerful and disturb the...
Prabhupāda: So what does...? But that means they do not understand what is meant by religion. They are thinking religion means some fanatical faith. They are meaning that. That is the whole world conception of religion. But actual religion we are now preaching, actual, what is religion. Religion means... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam: (BG 18.66) "Give up all rascal religion. Surrender unto Me." So who is a sane man who will deny, "No, I don't surrender to God"? Who is a sane man? He must be insane. Anyone who says that "I don't like God, I don't like to surrender unto Him," then he must be insane. He has already surrendered. He is going on under the condition of surrender, but it is not done very... Just like a prisoner. He is already surrendered to the government. Still, he says, "I don't care for government." This is the position. He's a madman. The state arrests him, kicks him, and puts him in the jail.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many years ago you once gave the example that when the master craftsman is working and he has got an apprentice, when the apprentice works, it is also considered the same quality because he is under the direction of the master.
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you are under direction of a perfect teacher, then your conclusion is perfect. The difficulty is that we are following imperfect teachers. Blind men. And what is the benefit of following a blind man? If the man is himself a blind man and if he follows another blind man, what benefit he will get? Both of them will fall into the ditch. That is going on. Just like this rascal Guruji Maharaja. He is a rascal and he is preparing so many rascals. And there are so many others. They are doing the same mischief, and there is no control by the government. The government is rascal. Government does not know who is real, who is imitation. Otherwise they should have checked immediately. But they do not check. They do not know.
Prabhupāda: Well, something wrong was done; therefore everything is wrong. If somebody, he might have seen some counterfeit coin, does it mean the whole currency is counterfeit? You cannot say like that.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: The śūdra mentality does not know how to correct the situation. They try to make liberty for themselves without instituting real religion again. (break)
Prabhupāda: This idea also. Now there should be examination whether so-called brāhmaṇas, they are actually following the brāhmaṇa regulative principle and chanting the mantra regularly. Otherwise they should be converted again śūdra. If we become safe simply by having a thread and do not do properly, then what is this? This should be examined. Every individual should be asked, "Now chant this Gāyatrī-mantra." He must. Are they doing properly?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He may say nonsense. The fact is this. That if he is sama-darśinaḥ, equal, then why he is particularly aiming to the lower class? That means he is not sama-darśinaḥ. He has not come to the stage. He is simply talking nonsense. Sama-darśinaḥ means he is equal to everyone. That is sama-darśinaḥ. Sama-darśinaḥ does not mean to get a cheap adoration, popularity, I go to the poor. That is their Ramakrishna Mission. They also are doing that same thing. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, like that. Why daridra? Why not real Nārāyaṇa? Just like this morning we read nārāyaṇa-pade. Never said daridra-nārāyaṇa-pade. To the great. Surrender does not mean to the lower. Does it mean surrender? Surrender, this relationship means that to whom I surrender, he is greater than me. And to the lower, mercy. These two words. One who is lower than me, I may show my mercy, but one who is greater than me, there is the question of surr... (break) (end)
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So without revolution, (indistinct), you cannot change old order. "Old orders changes giving place to new." That old order changes... Everywhere it is by violence. The Mahābhārata also, the Battle of Kurukṣetra. Kṛṣṇa was there. He tried to settle up. But it was not settled without violence. Paritrāṇāya... What is that? Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). Kṛṣṇa also comes, vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, to, for killing the demons. Kṛṣṇa also comes.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: (break) ...will be overthrown and replaced with God conscious beings.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...where is their food? Immediately, just see.
Nara-nārāyaṇa: The food and the sand looks exactly the same. So how they are immediately able to tell which is which?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see their intelligence. You are very much proud of your intelligence. Just see their intelligence. Everyone is intelligent. Therefore actual intelligence is he who knows Kṛṣṇa. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He has got intelligence. You cannot deny that. But he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. You have got intelligence; you can understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you don't use your intelligence for understanding Kṛṣṇa, you are nothing but cats and dogs. Kṛpaṇa. They are called kṛpaṇas. Kṛpaṇa means miser. One has got money, but he does not know how to utilize it. He is called kṛpaṇa, miser. They are so rascal that they cannot conceive that there is something as God and He can be known. Hopeless. That is the real point. Otherwise why so many scientists are...? They know, "This is idea only. There is nothing like God. So let us put our theories." That's all. That is your business, theology. They are so rubbish. That was the first publication in (the Village) Voice paper. They wrote when I first began in 1965 that "We thought that God is dead, but Swamiji has brought God with kīrtana."
Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually they are simply selling their theories. Whoever will buy it, they are selling it to.
Prabhupāda: Another rascal is buying. We are not buying. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam, spotless knowledge, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalam. Amalam means without any spot. (break) ...of God is given in the dictionary, "Supreme Being." That is very nice. Everywhere we see that on the top there is a supreme being, just like in your state, the president. So why not this big government, a Supreme Being? Where is the difficulty? Without something supreme, controller, things cannot go nicely. Otherwise why you select a president? Why you select a supreme being and give him all power that "Your order will be final"? Why you do that? Because you want the government must go on nicely. Otherwise there is no need of electing a president. So supreme being must be there, in every management. So this big huge management, there must be Supreme Being. And that is God. Clear, simple understanding. How can you deny?
| Page Title: | Narayana (Conversations 1968 - 1973) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 27 of Jun, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=63, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 63 |