Prabhupāda: That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Kṛṣṇa. So that business becomes Kṛṣṇa. Do it nicely and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And that is your success. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate 'khila pārthiva vānaraḥ.(?) Expert. There is a very nice story in Sanskrit. A monkey. A monkey... You might have some experience, that sawmen, who cut wood? Sawmen. So a sawman was cutting wood by the saw. So at the end of business it was half cut so he pulled down a, I mean to say, a plug so that next day he will come and he'll again begin sawing. So went away. So one monkey came. So monkey sat down there and began to pull on the plug because monkey's business is simply mischievous. So he did not know that his plough (?) and some portion of his thigh was within the hole and when he took out this plug it was, (claps) I mean to say, clipped, and he could not get out and died. So the instruction is that... 'Khila pārthiva vānaraḥ, vyāpare suvyaparam. Avyāpara means a occupation, an occupation which is not fit for you. That is avyāpara. Avyāpara-suvyaparam.
Monkey (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: If one wants to act in a business in which he is unable to do, then he is killed just like this fool monkey. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate. That foolish person is killed just like this monkey. The monkey's business was not to imitate the sawman, but he wanted to imitate. The result was that he was killed. So that is not expertness. Expertness is you just try to do which is easily performed by you. You don't accept anything heavy task because Kṛṣṇa does not want that you have to do this heavy task. Whatever you know, you just apply it. You dovetail it in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa does not say that you have to become like this, like that, like that, then you can serve Him. Does not say. Just like this cow. Just see. What does it know? He's an animal. You see? But the calf knows to brush his head and tongue like this, in love. It is doing and Kṛṣṇa accepting, "Yes." That is expert. First of all find out what is easily done by you. Don't take anything which is not easily done by you. You find out what is your occupation, what you can very nicely and easily perform, and do it for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is that clear? Expert? This is expert. Expert does not mean that I do not know how to drive motor car, and I will have to imitate somebody, "Oh, I shall become driver." Why? If you do not know driving, why should you attempt driving? Whatever you know, you just try it, that business, and try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. If you know driving, that's all right. But don't take... My Guru Mahārāja explained that you haven't got to learn anything extra for Kṛṣṇa's service.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Viṣṇu-saha...(?) From Hitopadeśa, they say, Aesop's Fables was translated. Aesop's Fables. There are stories like that. One dog is speaking to another monkey, monkey is... Like that. Hitopadeśa.
Allen Ginsberg: Jataka Tales. I know in the Buddhist, Jataka Tales.
Prabhupāda: So there is a story, Udarendriyānām. Udara means this belly, and indriya, the senses, hands, legs, means. So all these senses, they conferred that "We are working day and night, and this rascal is eating simply. So we shall noncooperate. We shall not work." That's all right. Resolution was passed. So they stopped working. And next meeting they saw that "We are becoming weak. Why?"
Allen Ginsberg: The hand wasn't bringing food to the mouth.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in the instruction of Viśvadeva(?), the śūdras should be given money so they can live very comfortably, not more. Then they will be spoiled. And that is being done. Śūdras get money, they do not know how to use it. Just like a child, you give hundred rupees, he will spoil it. He does know. (Bengali) The monkey is decorated with pearl necklace. Even Hanumān.
Dr. Singh: (laughs) He did it.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) "Oh, you are so nice. Come on, take it." And there is another proverb in Bengal, (Bengali). (Bengali), the cultivator, what does he know about the taste of liquor? These are very instructive(?).
Śyāmasundara: The cultivator?
Prabhupāda: Cultivator. (indistinct)
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: A monkey. No one is guarding.
Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.
Prabhupāda: No, no, vegetarian is no qualification.
Bob: Not much.
Prabhupāda: You see, vegetarian, the pigeon is vegetarian. The monkey is vegetarian. But most rubbish creature.
Bob: Well...
Prabhupāda: A monkey is vegetarian, naked sannyāsī, lives in the forest, the most mischievous.
Bob: I felt that it was a little bit of progress because it was somewhat difficult at first, then easy, and I had returned to...
Prabhupāda: No, you can stick to all regulative principles provided you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness process. Otherwise it is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Then he's an animal. The animal does not know what is God. A person who does not know what is God or one who does not try to understand what is God, he's animal. The animals are with four legs, and that animal is with two legs. And Darwin's theory is they are monkeys. So anyone who does not know God or does not try to understand God, he's nothing but animal.
Bob: What about the people in the...the innocent people?
Prabhupāda: The animal is very innocent. You cut its throat, it won't protest. So innocent is not very good qualification. The animals are all innocent. Therefore you get the chance of cutting their throat. So just... To become innocent is not a very good qualification. Our proposition is one must be very, very intelligent, and then he can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So to become innocent, ignorant, simpleton is not very good qualification. Simplicity is all right, but one should not be unintelligent.
Prabhupāda: Filipino.
Yadubara: Chinese also sometimes.
Prabhupāda: Dog-eaters.
Yadubara: Sometimes monkeys also.
Prabhupāda: Monkey?
Yadubara: Um hm. Monkey brain. It's very rare, but it's done.
Prabhupāda: Chinese?
Yadubara: Chinese.
Prabhupāda: Chinese, they eat everything. (laughter) They eat rats also. Rats, snakes. They are caṇḍālas.
Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise they will not be scholars.
Guru dāsa: At any rate, where it came from is...
Prabhupāda: Because according to Darwin's theory, your forefather was monkey. So their theory is that long before there were monkeys only. How such high philosophical thoughts could come?
Dr. Kapoor: It is true that in England there were only monkeys there. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.
Prabhupāda: Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And 2,000,000 of leaves and plants, botany, botanical. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Insects, there are 1,100,000 forms. (Sanskrit) Then (Sanskrit). From insect, they become flies and birds. (Sanskrit) One million. Then from birds, the beasts come, four-legged. (Sanskrit). Three million species of beasts. Then from beasts, the human form comes—either from monkey or from lion or from cows. Out of these three, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who are coming through rajo-guṇa, their last birth before human form of birth is lion. And those who are coming in the form ignorance, Darwin's father-in-law, (laughs) monkey, and ignorance. And those who are coming in goodness, their last form of birth is cow. So this is our scientific information from the Vedas. We haven't got to make research. Everything is there. That is Vedic knowledge. They have got already everything written there. The astronomy, everything is written there; simply you have to calculate.
Prabhupāda: So the tail was hanging, so some naughty boys, they fixed up nails, you see? So when he got up, the whole tail gone, you see? But he could not understand. He went to the ball dance. So he's dancing, so everyone's seeing his tail, in this way. So he thought, "Oh, what is the matter?" He went to the mirror and he saw, "Oh, my tail is lost." (laughs) Then he came again in the ball dance and he was pushing everyone, just to show. And everyone was asking, "What is this? What is this?" "Oh, you do not know? This is latest fashion. This is latest fashion." Then all of them cut the tails. I think he had taken the idea, (Sanskrit). This is Sanskrit story, that (Sanskrit), or monkey, he lost his tail, and he began to advertise, "This is the latest fashion." So that ball-dancing without tail, that was, I remember, it is very enjoyable. They say that Charlie Chaplin is the student of Max Linder. He learned this funny play from Max Linder. So I knew Charlie Chaplin is an Englishman.
Prabhupāda: No, you are rascal, you have rascal's history. We are not rascal; we have got another history. Why shall I accept your history? You are rascal. You be satisfied with the history that your great grandfather and his father used to live in the cave. But we don't accept. Our forefather used to live in palace. Sixteen thousand palaces, Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) So you rascal, you live with your own history. Why you force your rascaldom history upon us? We are not going to accept. We get history from five thousand years ago. You have no history beyond three thousand years. But we give the shortest history, five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa. And how much intelligent from historical point of view Kṛṣṇa was. We can understand from His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not that because we are Kṛṣṇaites we are canvassing. The whole world is reading Bhagavad-gītā. Why, unless there is intelligence? All scholars, all religionists, all philosophers, they are giving attention to Bhagavad-gītā. So how you can say Kṛṣṇa was living in the cave? Your forefather might be living in a cave, but our forefather did not live in a cave but palaces. Your forefather is a monkey, according to that history.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavata: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). A big animal is being praised by dogs, and hogs, camel, monkeys. So they're getting Nobel Prize from dogs, hogs, camels. They're not getting Nobel Prize from any sane man. That is stated. Śva-viḍ. Śva means dog. Viḍ-varāha means the stool-eater, hog. Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel. And kharaḥ means ass. So they're being praised by these classes of animal. They're not human being. If anyone gives Nobel Prize to such rascals, that means the man, the committee, who is giving the Nobel Prize to him, they are composition of these animals, dogs, hogs, camel and ass. They are not human being. According to Bhāgavata. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. I think I have explained it.
Prabhupāda: That means that individual person has left. That is the proof, that is the proof of individual soul. Just like there are so many plants of the same species. One is dead. That individual plant is dead, but other species are living. It is not extinct. How can you say the species is extinct? How you can say? Darwin's forefather might be extinct. But the monkeys are there. What is the time?
Brahmānanda: Six-thirty.
Karandhara: Six thirty-five.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. We can walk little more.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But in the same living body, Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are innumerable small living entities. Like the cells themselves. They are living also.
Prabhupāda: They think that: "My danger is over. Because I do not see anymore." Yes. So many animals, they die. Monkeys, rabbits, they die. When there is danger, they close the eyes. That's all. So similarly these rascals, they cannot make any solution of these problems, therefore they set aside. Don't trouble. What is this advancement? They are constructing big, big houses with a hope they'll live in this house comfortably. But any day we'll be kicked out: "Get out." What he can do? Why he's laboring so much? Suppose if you are constructing some house, if somebody says that you are going to die tomorrow, will you do it?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: No sane man will do it. But death is sure. You are making very nice foundation. But you'll have to leave. You cannot remain there. That, they do not know. Jawaharlal Nehru worked for... Gandhi worked for his country so much. Now where they are? Nobody knows.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. The same thing, that the rabbits close the eyes. Yes. Monkeys. And when the monkeys face a tiger, immediately he closes his eyes and the tiger immediately attacks him. So it is like that. He cannot solve the problem—"All right, let it go on." And that is the position. Because our real problem is death. Nobody wants to die. So the scientist cannot give any relief from death. They are talking simply superficially. They cannot give any relief from death. But my real problem is death. I do not wish to die. I do not wish to become old man. What scientists can help me? I do not wish to become diseased. What the scientist can help me? I do not wish to take birth. These things, they cannot do anything. Major problem they have set aside. And they are, what is called, jackal. Yes. There is a story of the jackal. He became the king of the forest.
Prabhupāda: No, it was too cold.
Jānakī: Yes, it reduces heat. I will bring some hot pepper.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...is taking place. The rascal Darwin says that it is coming from monkey. Why the monkey does not produce a human being? All rascals. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Simply rascals. His name is Neiman?
Pradyumna: Couldn't get his last, Ruby something.
Prabhupāda: Ruby, that...
Pradyumna: He is a very nice gentleman. He appreciated Bhagavad-gītā. He said right away, very...
Prabhupāda: Yes...
Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving. That is nonsense. The body is evolving, then why the monkey body is not producing a human body at the present moment? Where is the evidence? The monkeys are already there. Where is the evidence in the zoo that a monkey has produced a human being? Do you think it is all right?
Prabhupāda: He does not know. The apartment does not change. The owner of the apartment goes from one apartment to another. That he does not know. Therefore he's cheating. He does not, he has no perfect knowledge, and he's cheating. Cheater. He does not know. The soul, from the monkey's body is coming to human body. That is nice. Not that the monkey's body is changing into human body.
Dr. Hauser: But some of this cheating, as you call it, must have, have still been a great use to mankind because it has not been proven at the time when this theory has been evoked by some scientist, it has not been proven that he's right, but he works according to this principle that he has got, and then later...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that is explained in Bhāgavatam that in the jungle one big animal is the leader of other animals. That's all. But they're animals. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Ah, therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ. These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also... In English language, sometimes it is said, "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child... That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?
Prajāpati: Even in a group of chickens, there is one who is the...
Prabhupāda: Mother chicken.
Prajāpati: The head chicken. Or monkeys. There is also what's called pecking order. One is at the top, and then there's one at the end who gets the least, and all these gradations in-between. In any group there is always like that. So they say simply the reason we have government with one man head is because that's the natural pecking order like chickens.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right. Why this natural order has come? It is needed.
Karandhara: Well, they say chance. Chance in nature...
Prabhupāda: There is no chance. That is rascaldom. There is no chance. There is no chance.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking the rice is..., rice is producing the scorpion. It is called taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. But rice cannot produce a life. The real fact is a scorpion lays down the egg within the rice, and by the fermentation it comes out. Just eggs. And the small creature comes out. And foolish creatures, they think it that the rice is producing scorpion. That is not possible. So they are putting forward this evolution theory that man is coming from monkey, but no monkey is producing a man. Nobody has seen. There are so many things. They put forward some theory, but it is not fact.
New Devotee: The quickest way to knowledge...
Prabhupāda: Quickest way to knowledge... That I told you; take the knowledge from the authority. The example I have already given that you cannot make research, search out who is your father. But if you go to the authority, mother, immediately you understand. This is the quickest way.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Nitāi: We show you these experiments, and then you can see too.
Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You show, make experiment, that from the monkey's body a man is coming. Show me the experiment. Nobody has seen the experiment.
Nitāi: Well, in that case they say that the monkey looks so much like man; everything is practically there.
Prabhupāda: Well, that doesn't mean... Every man looks like another man; that does not mean he has come from him. He has got a different father.
Nitāi: One experiment that they've come up with is that they study the embryo within the womb.
Prabhupāda: That is recommended. And there is a Bengali verse, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya: to take care of oneself by the fathers, that is available in every life. Because the ant is also taking care. That is not human society, but he's still taking care. The tiger also taking care. The small cubs, they're loitering on the, on the body of the lion, and he is feeling very nice. Even monkeys, I have seen. One monkey came in window, and she had one small child, and somehow or other the child came inside my room. She, that outside monkey, became mad after it. So I had to take... (laughs) The affection is there. The ant, they're affectionate, the snake affectionate, tiger affectionate, man is affectionate. That is given; otherwise who will take care? So therefore the Vaiṣṇava kavi says, janame janame sabe pitā mātā pāya: in every life you'll get father and mother and their protection, kṛṣṇe guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei, but in every life you cannot get Kṛṣṇa and guru take care of. Because unless you get Kṛṣṇa and guru, then you are within the cycle of birth and death. And you get father and mother and their care, that is all right, but kṛṣṇa-guru does not come in that way. That you have to search out. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kona bhāgyavān jīva guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti... (CC Madhya 19.151). Because Kṛṣṇa, guru will give you the nucleus of devotional life. Kṛṣṇa guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is proved. We are going to Africa. We are going to Canada, Europe, America. Everyone chants Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the language. When a young man and young woman loves one another, there is no question of language. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Suppose you are in a foreign country. You do not know the language. But when there is fire, you get friends without any language." You see? In the beginning of British rule, there were not very many English-knowing Indians so a clerk in his office was working. So monkey came and he scattered the office papers. So after the monkey was driven away, he was collecting the papers. In the meantime, his English boss came. "What is this, man?" So he could not say. He began to jump. You see. "Monkey, sir. Monkey, sir. (laughter) Monkey, sir." "All right. All right. That's all right." Simply to inform, without any language, you can jump, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." And he will understand. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: If you become agitated even by seeing mother, then what can be done?
Guest (1): No, no, that should not be done.
Prabhupāda: Then you are a khara, go-khara.
Dr. Patel: Monkey.
Guest (1): No, but, I mean, a (Hindi) they don't see their own wife even. Goswami was telling that please don't keep a meeting there...
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no.
Guest (1): ...because my wife is staying there. Because Prabhupāda has also created something, good thing. (break)
Dr. Patel: I'm very sorry that... You have misunderstood me. I said this is the strict injunctions. You did it under a command, but that...
Prabhupāda: This is bhakti, simply to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, fully engaged. Ānukūlyena, favorable, as Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna, "You fight!" So he did not like to fight. He was non-violent, so-called. But Kṛṣṇa wants. Kṛṣṇa wants, ānukūlyena. Kṛṣṇa must be satisfied. It doesn't matter whether I am satisfied or not. But here things are going that "Kṛṣṇa, we don't care. If Your instruction does not appeal to me, to my sense satisfaction, I don't like it." This is going on. Nobody likes to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Nobody is prepared to that. "If Kṛṣṇa satisfies my whims, then I accept Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. That is not bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you have to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. (break) ...in devotional service. Without devotional service, all activities, they are false, simply just like jumping like the monkey. What is the value? The monkey is always busy, but his business has no value. His business has no value. Therefore as soon as one monkey..., "Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is always busy. So to become busy like a monkey has no value. To busy, to become busy as a devotee, that has value. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: ...accept that process. (break) ...cation. (break) Without any advertisement, without any..., how one can stop this?
Indian Man (2): It is not possible. (break)
Girirāja: "The child is very clever. After breaking the pot He has left the place fearing punishment. After she sought all over she found a big wooden grinding mortar kept upside down, and she found her son sitting on it. He was taking butter which was hanging from the ceiling on a swing and was feeding it to the monkeys." (continues reading from Kṛṣṇa Book; rest of tape is unintelligible) (end)
Prabhupāda: No, dog is an animal. He is in the ignorance. But the cow is in goodness. Sattva-raja-tamo.
Dr. Patel: Horse is in rajas.
Prabhupāda: Horse, lions. The monkey is in tamas.
Dr. Patel: And animal is in tamas and rajas...
Prabhupāda: Everything, there are three qualities, everywhere.
Dr. Patel: More rajas is in monkeys because they are more active. (break)
Prabhupāda: They are researching for something which is useless. Therefore tamas. Rajas-tamo-bhavaḥ kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye (SB 1.2.19). This is the effect of rajas tamas: kāma and lobha, greedy and always hankering after.
Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written. (break) ...one has passed stool, during daytime, due to the sunshine, the upper side is dry. So if somebody says, "This side is better than the other side. The moist side is not so good. The dry side is good." (break) ...nation, you'll find (indistinct) gentlemen, but they do not know that these things are criminals. They think it is ordinary thing, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, if you have got a garden, somebody says, "I want to eat some fruits." "Yes, come on. Take as much fruit as you like." But you cannot take it away. Any number of men can come and eat. They even do not prohibit the monkeys. "All right, let him come in. It is God's property." That is the system. That is mentioned in Bhāgavata. If the animals like monkeys, they come to your garden to eat, don't prohibit. Let him. He's also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Where he will eat if you prohibit? It is very practical. I have got another. This is told by my father. My father's elder brother was keeping a cloth shop. My father also was keeping a cloth shop. So it is in the village. So my uncle, what he would do, that before closing the shop, he'll bring one, what is called...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, that is... That I say bolts and nuts. That artificial food means bolts and nuts. Somebody told me that they have manufactured artificial butter and by eating they were vomiting. They're vomiting. There is ample butter supply. Why these rascals are interested in manufacturing artificial butter to show their scientific brain? Just see how they are rascals. They can get, huh? Just like Kṛṣṇa was stealing His mother's butter and throwing it to the monkeys. Butter can be produced in that way, that everyone can eat sumptuously. No. "Kill the animals and artificial butter you eat and vomit." That's all. Just see their intelligence. And they are proud of their advanced civilization. The same example, that a man barking as a dog, people will go to see it by purchasing ticket. (German translation).
Prabhupāda: That is a pleasure. Kṛṣṇa is enjoying being pierced by His devotee. And devotee is enjoying, "Now Kṛṣṇa is coming to kill me." So any way you can deal with Kṛṣṇa and enjoy transcendental pleasure, either as enemy or as friend or as son or as lover, as master, as a servant—any way. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to deal with you any way, in twelve rasas, akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Raso vai saḥ, in the Vedas, He is the reservoir of all pleasure, transcendental. (Sanskrit) When we exchange rasa, transcendental mellow, (Sanskrit), then we get transcendental bliss. As the materialist has centered around the sex, this way or that way, similarly the transcendentalists, they are..., their center is Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. So if you want to enjoy life making Kṛṣṇa as the center, that is eternal happiness. And this life means it is not eternal. Now you enjoy sex as human being, next as dog, next as monkey, next as flies, next as this, next as that. The center is sex, but you have to change according to your mental condition at the time of death in different body. That is not eternal. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You accept one type of body, enjoy sex according to that body, then you can accept another body. Sex life is there. As human being, sex life; and as a dog, there is sex life; as a fly, sex life. Fly also enjoys sex life. You have seen?
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: "One who has received a little mercy of the lotus feet of the Lord, he can understand the truth. Others, even speculating for millions of years, they cannot understand anything." The speculation business is useless in spiritual advance. It may help Darwin to come to the conclusion that man is born from monkey. Because he is from monkey, he thinks others also from monkey. He has admitted that whatever he has given, it is simply a speculation. He has admitted. And all others also speculating. They are trying to manufacture life from chemicals, but they do not know that life is never manufactured. It is already there. Just like this grass is coming. The life is already there. In favorable circumstances it comes out. Udbhija. This is called udbhija. Similarly fermentation. Just like the cockroaches come out... (end)
Prabhupāda: I'll do. Mūḍhas. They are mūḍhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mūḍhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyāpare suvyāparaṁ yo naraḥ kartum icchati sa mūḍhaḥ hanyate 'khilotpad iva vānaraḥ.(?) Vānara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?
Paramahaṁsa: Carpenter.
Devotee: Lumberjack.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pañcadraviḍa: Cuts trees?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Join.
Prabhupāda: Jam. Yes. So one monkey came. They monkey came. He, he began to, as his business, (makes sound "kut, kut, kut," and the plug was taken away and his half part of the body—"Jam." And the... (Makes sound, monkey crying) "tahn, tahn, tahn, tahn." Who is coming to help him? He died. So this is not his business. He's a monkey. And he wanted to do that business. Similarly, these things are directly in the hands of God, and these monkeys are coming to get out the plug. So they'll die simply, that's all, like the monkey. They'll never be able to successfully produce soul and these things.
Madhudviṣa: So couldn't the scientists say that it's God's will that when, when there is a...
Prabhupāda: Now, now according to their theory, there was no human being. And from uncivilized man, they are becoming... They have taken to science, say, for last two hundred years. Before that, how things were going on without these rascals?
Madhudviṣa: They say, "uncivilized."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but I see that your devotees, they are working every day, doing so many things. I am also working. Why is it that...
Prabhupāda: But you are working blindly,... just like monkey, he is busy, but he does no value. You work under our direction, then it will be of value. (Chants japa.) Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate (CC Madhya 19.170). Senses are not to be abolished. They cannot be. It has to be purified. And then, when the senses are engaged in the service of the proprietor of the senses, then it will be perfect.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So this body is temporary anyway, so aren't these senses temporary also?
Prabhupāda: No. Senses are there. The dog has senses, you have got also senses. Body may change, the senses will continue.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this means happiness in ignorance. That is ass. He's bearing two tons of load, and if he is thinking "I am happy," it is nice. Therefore they are called ass. Accepting distress as happiness. Therefore they are called ass. That is the difference between ass and human being.
Amogha: I saw some asses in the university yesterday. Asses and monkeys. One professor was working so hard he was almost crying, because he had so many exams to mark. So great burden on his mind.
Paramahaṁsa: Isn't it, then, if one is happy, that's all that counts? If his happiness is also relative. So if I am a monkey...
Prabhupāda: It means, this is government deceiving. The man is not there. And even if he is there, suppose the soldier after dying for his country has become a tree, is it a very good reward? (laughter) How foolishly they are thinking. We have to point out their foolishness. That is our business. They are working very hard, undoubtedly, but they are working foolishly. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). The result is simply they are becoming tired. That's all. Because they are not working intelligently, like monkey, he is busy all day. What is the value of your busy? You'll find the monkey is never sitting idle. He's always busy, "eḥ, eh, eh." (imitating monkey) So what is the result of that busyness? He's a monkey. And they claim to be coming from monkey, these rascals. So we can see that your monkey's quality is already there. (laughter) You have not improved more than monkey, because you are working uselessly. They are theorizing that they have come from monkey, and as soon as you say that you are monkey, they become angry. Just see. They are claiming that we are coming from monkey. And if you say you are monkey, no better than monkey, then they are angry. Just see.
Paramahaṁsa: That's because we've advanced from the monkey stage up to the human stage.
Prabhupāda: You have not advanced. If you are uselessly working, then you are monkey. Monkey is busy, but useless. There is no value. What is the value of your working? You cannot make a solution of the problem that you are dying. Then what is the use of your working? You do not like to die. Why you are dying? You are keeping memory of him because you wanted that he should not have died. That is your desire. You do not like to die. So where is the solution of your death? You might open many hospitals, but where is the solution of disease, that there should be no more disease? That you cannot do. Therefore your so-called scientific research, working hard day and night, is all monkeys' business. Useless.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are not talking of this body. We are talking of the soul. We say that soul transmigrates. So, instead of transmigrating to another this perishable body, we are transmigrating to the eternal body. That is our business. We are making solution. But you do not know. You are simply working like monkey, uselessly.
Paramahaṁsa: But we haven't seen that anyone has got...
Prabhupāda: How you can see? You cannot see. You do not believe in transmigration. So how can you see? Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. When you will have the eyes to see—knowledge—then you'll see. Now you are monkey, how you can see? A monkey cannot see. Paśyanti jñāna cakṣuṣa. Just like our men in India, they know I have come to Australia. But he's not seeing by his eyes. He knows the arrangement was made, they purchased ticket, and they went to the airport. And they are confident. They are sending letters here. Has he come with me to see? How he knows? That I have come here, how he knows? He has not seen that I have come here. But how he knows?
Paramahaṁsa: Of course a person can never be completely sure...
Prabhupāda: Therefore, jñāna cakṣuṣa. You can see with knowledge how this man is being transferred to the eternal life. But you have no such knowledge! You are monkey. A monkey cannot see, a monkey cannot understand. Suppose there is a dog at my house. He does not understand how I have come here, because he has no knowledge. So seeing means knowledge. Seeing, not the eyes. He wants to see by the eyes. He's a monkey. That's all. He's a dog.
Paramahaṁsa: But first we have to believe it, and then we can see it?
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of belief. It is a fact. It is a fact in this way, that Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9)—that's all. You have to see through Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says that a such and such person devotee, after giving up this body, he does not accept. That is seeing. Kṛṣṇa says and you see. Just like you believe me. A child believes the father. Similarly, if the authority is there, then you see by his word, that's all. That is knowledge. Seeing by perfect knowledge—that is seeing. Not by endeavoring with these imperfect senses. That is not knowledge.
Prabhupāda: What enjoy?
Amogha: Television, cinema, dancing...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the dogs also dance and enjoy. The monkeys also dance and enjoy.
Paramahaṁsa: But these animals, they're not intelligent enough to enjoy the higher...
Prabhupāda: They are intelligent. Otherwise when the dog jumps here, and goes to one man and come here-he's enjoying. It is enjoyment. So you are doing like that.
Amogha: But we cook very nice food to eat.
Prabhupāda: They also eat, according to their taste. The hogs, they eat stool and they enjoy it. So, according to our calculation you are eating stool—the meat. And you are thinking you are enjoying, as the hog's thinking, that's all. It is a question of standard of enjoyment. Otherwise, enjoyment is there in every living sphere. (In car)
Prabhupāda: Dancing is not working? And writing book is not working? Selling book is not working? What is working then? Hm? Like monkey jumping? Yes? That is working?
Amogha: But we are helping people practically like in the hospital or the alcoholics...
Prabhupāda: No, what... How you are helping? Do you think if one goes to hospital he will not die? And how you are helping? You are thinking you are helping.
Amogha: But he lives longer.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. How long you will live? When the time of death comes, you will not live longer even by a moment. When a man is going to die, his life is finished. Can your injection, medicine, give one minute's life more? Is there any medicine?
Prabhupāda: Yes. But that attention, ecstasy, comes in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Otherwise these young boys are chanting and dancing... Unless there is ecstasy... They are not monkeys. They are human beings. They are dancing, with education, with culture. Unless there is spiritual ecstasy, how they can chant and dance for hours together? It is not monkey dancing. It is spiritual. It is spiritual.
Jesuit: Oh, I can see that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So that is God's omnipotency. When you offer sincere prayer, the words become spiritual. That is wanted. If you sincerely offer your prayers, God understands. Even though sound appears to be material it is no more material; it is spiritual. Just like... I will give you one example. Just you put one iron rod in the fire. So the iron rod becomes warm, warmer, warmer, and then it becomes red hot. When it is red hot, it is no more iron. It is fire. You touch that red hot anywhere; it will burn.
Prabhupāda: Yes, he must be. Because he is foolish, he will do all nonsense..., wrong things, which will create unhappiness. To deny God means foolishness, and foolish man simply will create trouble. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy by simply creating trouble, that's all. And they are claiming, the foolish Darwin's theories, they also claim that monkey is our forefather.
Journalist: Is that true? Do you believe that?
Prabhupāda: No, I have told you already, the evolution. The monkey is not our forefather, but in the evolutionary process we came through monkey. That is a fact. Because that is an animal, so we have to pass through three million varieties of animal's body. So monkey is one of them.
Journalist: When did we stop becoming the monkey and start to become a man?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that depends. By nature's course, you automatically come to human body. Now, in the human body it is a junction, whether you want to make further progress and if you want to go back again to the cycle of the birth and death and the evolutionary process. That is to be decided by you. If you want to go to God, you can go. And if you want to become again a monkey, you can do that. That will depend on your work. Yes.
Journalist: You founded the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. How long ago was that?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is since five thousand years ago or before that. You may say forty millions of years ago as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But taking it by modern history, in your country, in the Western countries, I have started it since 1966 from New York. The movement is very, very old. But it is started in the Western countries since last seven or eight years.
Prabhupāda: Everything. Suppose this boy is sitting down. Now I am sitting in a very nice couch. So it is not absolutely necessary that couch is required. But for getting this couch, we had to spend so much energy. So similarly, unnecessarily we have created so many things and going on. That I was going to say, that we come to the human form of life by nature's way. Now what is our duty? Our duty is to make further progress. But instead of going further progressively we are again going to become monkeys and dogs. This is our position.
Journalist: What about other artifacts of civilization like television and motorcars...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very good, just like we also use motorcar, but not for fashion. Suppose if we go for preaching. If we can go by car quickly, we take advantage of the car. We have got many cars for preaching work. So everything is good, provided it is used for progressive goodness. (coughs) That our mistake is that when... Now listen, there is the mistake in Darwin's theory also. He has no information that the evolution is taking place, of the body, by the desire of the soul. That he does not know. Just like sometimes people were happy and living in a small cottage. Now they are making big, big skyscraper building. So what is the difference? The cottage and this... The cottage is not becoming the skyscraper building but the man who was living in the cottage, by his desire the skyscraper building is coming. Similarly the evolution means the soul within the body desires a certain type of body and he gets it. Not that the monkey body has developed into human body.
Prabhupāda: But the soul within the monkey's body desired a human body, and he has got it. This is the process of evolution. The Darwin's theory, this knowledge is lacking. If he is thinking that the cottage has become big skyscraper building, that is not the fact. The owner of the cottage desired to have a skyscraper building, therefore he, from the cottage he transferred to the skyscraper building. It is due to the owners.
Journalist: In that case, if we go on developing, we stay in the skyscraper, or the skyscraper gets bigger.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The skyscraper is not impediment, it is not impediment. If you remain in the skyscraper and develop your spiritual consciousness, you can do that. But the unfortunate thing is that we are too much absorbed in constructing the skyscraper building, forgetting our real business. That is the defect.
Journalist: What about sex and drugs, sex and alcohol.
Prabhupāda: Sex, yes, alcohol, we condemn any kind of intoxication, all our students are forbidden illicit sex. We don't say, "No sex," but "illicit sex," we forbid. Similarly we forbid meat-eating. We don't say that "Don't eat," we simply say that "don't eat meat." You can eat other things, just like we are eating so many nice things.
Prabhupāda: That is beginning. First of all they sent dog. (laughter)
Madhudviṣa: Space dog. Space mouse.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Space mouse.
Devotee: Space monkey also.
Prabhupāda: So since 1955 even. So twenty years, what they have done?
Devotee: Spent billions of dollars.
Prabhupāda: Yes, simply they have brought little dust, that's all.
Madhudviṣa: Now they have found that that same dust is here on the earth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply propaganda. They are not going. Now the Russian scientist and American scientist are combined. Because both of them thieves, so one thief is asking, "Don't expose me. I will not expose you, so that our business will go on." This is the way. "Let us combine together and cheat these rascals, and otherwise, if you expose me, then I will expose you. Then our business will stop."
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing. I am talking of yourself. If one does not know what is good, then how he will do good? The first business is that he must know what is good. Then he can do something good. Otherwise what is the use of jumping like monkey? He must know. Because you are a lawyer you know how to deal with law, you can do good. But a layman who is not a lawyer, how he can do good? So therefore, anyone who is posing himself as leader to do good to the society, he must know first of all what is good.
Guest 2: Would you say that the lawyer can do good whether or not he believes in God?
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. I am saying that if you are not a lawyer, if you have no study of the law, how can you do good?
Guest 2: Well, that's what I was putting. I was hoping to lead you from there to the other situation of no studying or specific training.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore it is said, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). "Those who have lost their identity, being captivated by bhoga and aiśvarya, they cannot understand." Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahataḥ. For slight, so-called happiness they are making big, big problems (projects?). Māyā... bharam. Bharam means big, big problems. (projects?). And sometimes they put forward their whim (?) for the next generation. Now, if Darwin's theory accepted, the monkeys never thought of the next generation, so how you have got this consciousness(?)? Why you are thinking of your next generation? What is the argument? The monkey cannot think that Mr. Nixon will come, become president of this or that, U.S.A. So how he became president without your thinking of the, your forefathers, monkeys? So why you are thinking of your generation? Your forefathers did not.
Bali-mardana: Yes, but by Darwinism they become reduced to just animals, no better than monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is meant for the monkeys, not for any sane gentleman. Sane gentleman will think that "I have become now... By evolution I have come to this stage human being. What is next? And that is sane.
Guru kṛpā: That is a good argument.
Prabhupāda: He will think, "What is next? Is it finished here?" The rascal says, "No, after finishing, everything is finished." What is this? If there is evolution—you have come to this stage —then what is the next stage? That is natural. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yānti deva-vratā devān (BG 9.25). Now you can go to the moon planet if you try. Moon planet, sun planet, Venus and so many. If you become serious. And you can go to God's planet, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām. Now you select where will you will go. But there is spiritual planet. But what is their theory? That after finishing this body, everything is finished.(?) They do not believe in the next life.
Prabhupāda: Sending dog first of all?
Ambarīṣa: Yeah, mice and then monkeys and...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...desert. But here we find, within the desert, petrol. Why not get petrol there and solve your power problem. Can I not raise this question?
Ambarīṣa: How would they get it back from the moon?
Prabhupāda: There will be petrol. You take it.
Ambarīṣa: How would they get it back here?
Prabhupāda: As they are coming. They are going and coming. So let them go, and if the surface is desert, then find out oil within.
Paramahaṁsa: But their answer would be: "Well, even if we found oil, it would be impossible to bring it to the earth."
Ambarīṣa: I heard once that human beings in the modes of goodness were coming from the cow family or from the cows mostly? If there are so many cows being killed, why aren't there more people in the modes of goodness?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Now, after the... There are three sources: cow, monkey, and lion. This is the last animal life.
Siddha-svarūpa: Okay, now park here.
Prabhupāda: Why not go a little...
Siddha-svarūpa: There's a beach park right up there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, beach park. Oh, you have to stop.
Siddha-svarūpa: The... (break)
Jayatīrtha: You can either come wearing clothes or not wearing clothes to this beach.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lucky we come early.
Sudāmā: Just like the monkeys.
Revatīnandana: Oh, it was in Laguna that they repealed it.
Prabhupāda: But why, then, the lavatory they have made distinction for woman and for men?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now in the colleges there's no more distinction.
Jayatīrtha: Co-educational bathrooms.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One bathroom. One residence, one bathroom...
Revatīnandana: The boys and girls live in the same residence on the same floors and use the same bathrooms. Practically there is no restriction on the association. They're not married.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Congress just passed a law that the health education, means the gym, gymnastic classes... Every day there's physical education class?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is jumping of the monkeys. In my book, it was published in 1958. (Hindi conversation) I don't believe all these rascals. Otherwise, how could I write? Later on, in San Francisco some press reporter asked me, "What is your opinion?" And, "This is all foolish waste of time and money." It was published. (break) We are conditioned. We call ourself "conditioned soul." So whatever condition is made by nature or by God, you cannot overcome them. That is futile attempt. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot surpass the condition of material nature. Foolishly, you may declare very great independent. But completely under the grip of material nature. Everything, there is a process. Just like you have come to U.S.A. You have come through a process, immigration. Can anyone come here without going through the process?
Indian guest: No.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Otherwise, why we are trying unless there is hope? We are not hopeless. If you train... If you can train a monkey to dance according to your will, why not human being? You can train even a tiger in the circus; he will act as you desire. It is the question of training. If the animal can be trained, why not a human being? You must know how to train. That knowledge is lacking, how to train. That we are giving, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Guest (Indian man): Swamiji, I'll ask one last question. What advice do you give to a man of family? I am taking my case, I have four children, and they are, their ages, between six and thirteen. I have to see that they grow up nice, I have to see that they educate themself so that they are as according to you... I don't know. I don't call myself first-class, second-class, third-class. As you said, there are no first-class men, second-class men. But then how, apart from making them first class that they should follow the religious...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, of the monkey-class men. (laughter) That's all. Therefore you conclude that the man comes from monkey. That is the conclu... Human being, Vedic culture, they burn it. So they have no opportunity to see the human being skull. The monkeys, they do not burn. So he has seen only the monkey skull, and his conclusion is, "Man is from monkey."
Brahmānanda: Actually they are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, he finds, (laughter) like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr. Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not believe this Darwin's theory. (break) ...study one after another, chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For any single man it is not possible.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Oh, definitely.
Bahulāśva: In California they have passed a law that homosexuality is legal. So the psychologists say that they see the dogs and the hogs and monkeys having homosex relationships, so on that grounds, they say, it should be legal.
Prabhupāda: They have got homosex? Dogs, hogs, I don't think.
Bahulāśva: Yeah, dogs, they say. We were preaching in this one convention that the dogs are also fighting. So therefore fighting and murder should be legal too because the dogs do that also.
Brahmānanda: Their argument was because the dogs have homosex, therefore the man should have...?
Bahulāśva: Should have homosex.
Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes, if an animal does it, then a human being should have the same right to do it also.
Jayatīrtha: Then they can pass stool in the street also?
Prabhupāda: So ask him that "Find out some bomb that you will not die. Why don't you do that?" (laughter) Yes. "People are dying, and you have invented something to die very soon. So why don't you invent something that you will never die? Can you do that? Therefore we are no more interested in science. It is a waste of time." Tell him. You go your professor. "You are regretting that young men are no more interested. So this is our reason because, after all, we have to die. Everything will be finished. Then what is the use of studying? You have not improved anything. The animals have also two legs, and two, four legs. We have got also four legs and where is the difference? You say, the Darwin's theory, from monkey, man has come, but you never shown us that a monkey has ever given birth to a man. So all this false propaganda, we are no more interested." (break)
Prabhupāda: Identification. So that identification is there in the animal life also. The animal, dog, also tries to protect his cub. So that sense is not sufficient to be human being. That sense is visible amongst the lower animals. In Kanpur I was sitting within the room, and one monkey came outside the window, and she had her child. So somehow or other, playing, that child entered into my room through the railings, and the mother remained outside. The mother became mad how to get the child. Then I pushed the child out of the room and she immediately embraced, and... The affection is there. You will find everywhere. In the birds, beasts, animals, lower animals, big animals, the same affection is there. If you strike one crow, then thousands of crow will gather: "Caw. Caw. Caw." You have seen? In India it is very... (chuckles) And they will bite you. If you have done any harm to any crow, all the crows will come.
Prabhupāda: So you have seen the tree?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You collect the wood. (break) ...monkey in this country?
Ambarīṣa: No, no wild monkeys.
Brahmānanda: Only civilized monkeys. (laughter)
Ambarīṣa: We(?) are living in the cities.
Prabhupāda: At least civilized man's forefather. (break) ...bigger than monkey. You remember? We were walking in that park?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes. Many were in the trees, jumping. (break)
Prabhupāda: At least civilized man's forefather. (break) ...bigger than monkey. You remember? We were walking in that park?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes. Many were in the trees, jumping. (break)
Prabhupāda: Birds who eat monkey. You know that? I have seen in Los Angeles zoo, monkey-eating bird. They capture the monkey by the neck and drop it. And when it falls down it dies, and meat. And I have seen one statue in the Central Park. They are catching goats-eagle. And there are big eagles. They catch up elephant. (break)
Satsvarūpa: Just some person who wants(?) to glorify himself, Dudder.(?) (break) A boy will write his name and his girlfriend's name on some tree.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Prabhupāda: So why that eight thousand was not utilized to finish this business? BBT might be delayed, but what is this? Everything is unfinished. Huh? The doors are neither colored, neither painted, neither polished. As you have no money. And you are getting money and all going to the belly. So do rightly. You are so big, big heads. Baro baro badare baro baro pet laṅka dingake mata kare het: "Big, big monkey, big, big belly-Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Huh? With big belly a monkey comes forward, and if you ask him, "Jump over like Hanumānji," finished, belly finished. These are Bengali words. Baro baro badare baro baro pet laṅka dingake mata kare het. "I cannot do it." And why you have got so much belly? So this is not good. Make plan. You'll go on plan-making. Oh, you'll never be done. What can be done? I want to get rid of the management, but when I see, I have to see the management, how can I remain stopped? As soon as I see things are mismanaged, I have to say. I am not dumb. So this is the... And you report that "Everything is first class." What is this first class? Do you know meaning of first class? This is first class?
Prabhupāda: No, that is for their sons.
Indian man (2): They are earning themselves, their son, sufficiently.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...in the Back to Godhead that those who have come to Vṛndāvana for sense gratification, their next birth is monkey and dog in Vṛndāvana; then, next birth, liberated. So they became angry. Vṛndāvana is not for sense gratification. Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura therefore says,
- rūpa raghunātha pade haibe ākuti
- kabe hāma bujhabo se yugala pīriti
The rasa-līlā of Kṛṣṇa and Rādhārāṇī, a person like Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, "I could not understand it because I have not yet studied the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī and Raghunātha Gosvāmī, six Gosvāmīs. How can I understand?" So these people, they think by seeing rasa-līlā by professional men they will understand the līlā of Kṛṣṇa. Rūpa-Raghunātha instruction not cared for. But without going through the literature, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, nobody can understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dhanañjaya: So when you told Smara-hari to purchase in quantity, the first thing he purchased was bananas.
Prabhupāda: Because he is monkey, he wants banana, very nice.
Smara-hari: You see, Prabhupāda, yesterday we fasted in the morning and because it was ekādaśī there were extra bananas bought for yesterday morning, and they weren't used, so there are some left over. So this is why...
Prabhupāda: Why some left over?
Smara-hari: Because they weren't used yesterday morning.
Prabhupāda: They weren't, but why it is left over?
Prabhupāda: This Darwin's theory as very big invention or discovery. Simply childish rascaldom. There is no reason; there is no sense. Man came from monkey—why not coming now? Stop once. So what kind of men came first?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: First there was very primitive man.
Prabhupāda: No, primitive…
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They think that he resembles a monkey very much.
Prabhupāda: So there are in Africa these men. They resemble that, what is called? That animal?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Gorilla.
Prabhupāda: Gorilla. So these men are still existing. But why from gorilla they do not come?
Prabhupāda: First of all let them prove their theory. Then we shall prove ours. We are proving. We have got our own way. But why they are speaking all this nonsense? First of all let him prove that he is genuine. Then our turn will be next. Ours is very easy. Kṛṣṇa said to sun-god, and sun-god said to his son, his son, his son. It is coming like that. Where is the difficulty? Again Kṛṣṇa says, "Now it is mismanaged. It is lost, so I am saying again to you Arjuna." So what Arjuna has understood, we are understanding the same way. How Arjuna understood it, that is written in the Bhagavad-gītā. Where is the… We have no difficulty. But you jump over: "There is link," that "Once only from monkey came." What is this nonsense? We have to believe this? Has it any sense? And because Mr. Darwin is speaking we have to accept it? We cannot…
Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their rascaldom.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Formerly there was no civilization. Therefore like monkey.
Prabhupāda: "They think." That is their… We don’t "think." We have got millions of years' history. Why we shall think with them, with these rascals? They may think, the rascal. A child may think like something, but a elderly man will not think like that. Because they are thinking like that, we have to think with them?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then? Because the rascals are thinking in some way, we have to believe that? First of all let them prove that they are sane men. They are all insane rascals. Why shall I take their words? We are taking words from Kṛṣṇa, who is accepted the Supreme by all the ācāryas, all the great sages. Why shall I go to this rascal Darwin? We are not so fools. We cannot accept.
Prabhupāda: Neither we are after false followers. If you agree, then you come. If you agree—"No illicit sex, no... Yes..." Why? There is no "Why?" You have to accept it. Then you come to me. That's all. If you like, you come; if you don't like, go away. I don't care for you. This is our policy. There is no "why?" You may say, "dogmatic," but it is not dogmatic but it is standard from Bhagavad-gītā, from Vedic literatures. Striya-suna-pana-dyuta yatra papas catur-vidhāh: (SB 1.17.38) "Wherever there are these four kinds of sinful activities, oh, that is very dangerous place." So we have taken it. (break) Now everyone, when there are so many cars... I saw one advertisement, Ford car, that "Bring all '79 cars and compare. Ours is the best." You cannot condemn him. It is advertisement. "Bring all '79 cars, others, and compare with our car." You can have your consent. That is not cheating. So we say like that, that "Bring all knowledge and compare with Bhagavad-gita's knowledge." Now it is up to you if you accept this or don't accept it. That is not cheating. But these rascals, they are simply placing some bogus theory without any authorized statement: "All of a sudden monkey once gave birth." And where is that authority?
Harikeśa: Monkey?
Prabhupāda: "Monkey gave birth to man, all of a sudden, millions of years..." Now, what is the support of your statement? Then anyone can say anything and it becomes science. You have no support. You are the first man. You are saying like this, nonsense. Where is your support? You are support of your statement? Then everyone will say, "I have got some statement, and I support. I am the support."
Harikeśa: That's what they do.
Prabhupāda: That is...
Harikeśa: That's how you become a big scientist.
Prabhupāda: No, that means their life is not properly conducted. And therefore the word laziness has come. Laziness is not actually the word. Laziness means minimizing the bodily labor and engaged in spiritual work. If you ask people, "Please come to our temple," who is coming? Because he says, "I have no time." But we are not working hard. So real aim of life is to... In German, I think, or somewhere there is classification: "Lazy intelligent, busy intelligent, lazy fool, and busy fool." So at the present moment (laughs) the whole world is full of busy fools. But the first-class man, he is lazy intelligent. Lazy and intelligent, that is first-class man. And second-class man, busy intelligent. And third class means lazy fool and fourth class means busy fool. When the fools are busy... Just like nowadays they are busy but they are fools. Like monkey, he is very busy. You see? And they prefer to be generation of monkey, busy fool. That's all. Fools, when he is busy, he is simply creating havoc. That's all. Better... Lazy fool is better than him because he will not create so much harm, but this busy fool will simply create harm. And first class-man is lazy intelligent. He knows the value of life, and soberly he is thinking. Just like all our great saintly persons. They were living in the forest, meditation, tapasya, and writing books. All, you will find, lazy intelligent. They are first-class men.
Indian man (1): Not like the monkey jumping from one ...
Prabhupāda: Busy fool, what is the value? He is fool, and he is busy. So nowadays the education is to make busy fool. That's all.
Indian man (1): About the busy intelligent?
Prabhupāda: The second class.
Indian man (1): How does he behave?
Prabhupāda: Busy intelligent means at least whatever he is doing, there is some meaning, busy intelligent. And lazy intelligent means he is doing higher things. Lazy intelligent means brāhmaṇa, and busy intelligent means kṣatriya. So the cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭām (BG 4.13). The society should be divided into four classes. The śūdras, they are busy fools. Therefore they are to be guided. They are to be guided. If there are, hundred workers are there, then one leader must be there to give the direction: "Why you are doing this? Why you don't do this?" Otherwise he'll create havoc. Busy fool. So the whole world is full of busy fools. That's all. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that for brāhmaṇa, śamo damaḥ satyaṁ śaucaṁ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānam vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma sva... (BG 18.42).
Prabhupāda: Indore, yes.
Indian lady (3): Kukumcha.
Prabhupāda: Kukumcha. Yes, you know.
Indian lady (3): He got the glands from the monkey.
Prabhupāda: Just see. But where is now Kukumcha?
Indian lady (3): Now he is no more.
Prabhupāda: So Kukum, finished. (laughter) Kukum means order. So he thought... Kukum means order.
Indian lady (3): He was very rich. He used to...
Harikeśa: They've found with this monkey gland operation also that you become like a monkey after a while, that you develop lots of hair and jaw becomes prominent.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Harikeśa: Yes. They've found that.
Prabhupāda: Why don't you try for it? (laughter) You are supporter of Darwin's theory. (laughter)
Harikeśa: They may find them swinging through the trees.
Prabhupāda: Jump over from tree to tree. I have seen here. There is...
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Cyavana: In this area there are monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Very... and they are also chased by another bird, monkey-eating bird. They'll go and capture and take him and throw him in the ground, and he falls down and dies. Then the bird eats. You know the monkey-eating birds? I have seen in Los Angeles zoo. Not very big, but they want to eat monkeys.
Harikeśa: Oh, the monkey-eating birds in Los... Yes.
Prabhupāda: So for eating, sleeping, mating and defending, everyone has got full intelligence. This monkey-eating bird also knows how to do his job. So that is not intelligence. Even this lowest-class bird, they... Even small flies, they also know all tricks how to exist, struggle for existence.
Harikeśa: Once in Vṛndāvana you were sitting in your room, and I had some bananas on the right-hand side. Do you remember this?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: The monkey opened the door while we were all sitting there, stole the bananas, and raced out again.
Harikeśa: We were once walking in the road right in front of Rādhā-Dāmodara temple holding some prasādam, and the monkey came from a tree and knocked down...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: ...the devotee and stole the prasādam and ran away.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jñāna: I heard they take the devotees' tape recorders and trade them for bananas in the market. I heard.
Prabhupāda: They are intelligent.
Indian lady (3): They want to get purified by getting prasādam from...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not... (laughter) "Some devotees come here to become purified"—no. "Where is tape recorder? Where is camera?" They find out and take it away. We have got experience. What is this bird chirping?
Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) Just like this tendency was exhibited by Kṛṣṇa. In the forest the two brothers and other cowherds boys, they were also imitating. They were flying. The bird is flying; they were also flying like this. And coming to the monkey, coming to the peacock and imitating the..., like this. These are description in the Kṛṣṇa book.
Brahmānanda: But his imitating the bird means he will become a bird?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Brahmānanda: This man's imitating the bird means that he will become a bird.
Prabhupāda: Not necess... This is sporting. It will be decided what he is thinking at the time of death. That will become prominent.
Brahmānanda: Is it by chance what you think of at the time of death or is...
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: It contains protein.
Harikesa: Actually it's a wonderful challenge. This big, big scientist, big, big brain...
Prabhupāda: Big, big monkey. (laughter) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy."
Harikesa: And we walk in and put an egg in front of him.
Prabhupāda: You do not know this? Baro baro bandolel, baro baro peṭ laṅkā dingate, matakare het.(?) (laughter) This translation was done by one big professor, of President's College, Professor Rowe. He was a big professor in the President's College. So these professors required to learn Bengali, so he translated, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping melancholy." (break)
Prabhupāda: Their civilization begins from monkey, and our civilization begins from...
Dr. Patel: From Vedas.
Prabhupāda: ...Brahma.
Dr. Patel: From Brahmā actually when he learned the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Those four or five, five or four ślokas, original of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I want to learn from you. I read all the commentary—you have written commentary for four pages—but I think I am little mūḍha to understand it. (laughing) So I'll learn directly if you can teach me. I am now critically studying your, this thing, commentary on this.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good.
Dr. Patel: Once I read it, but now I am doing a critical study of it. Both of Sanskrit as well as your comments. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...divided by separate words.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Every day I was seeing how to go to Jagannātha Purī and how to go to Vṛndāvana. At that time a fare was, for Vṛndāvana, four or five rupees, and similarly for Jagannātha Purī. So I was thinking, "When I shall go?" That's all. I took first opportunity to go to Jagannātha Purī after my examination, and in business connection when I went to Agra, then I first of all took the opportunity to go to Vṛndāvana from Agra. This was in 1925, and I visited Jagannātha Purī sometime in 1920. And '25 I went to Vṛndāvana. I remember, in those days I was sitting within the car, and there was some prasādam. One monkey entered and took away everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the train compartment.
Prabhupāda: They are very clever. Many times in Vṛndāvana the monkeys have taken away from my hand foodstuff.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: While you were eating.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Thrice... At least thrice, four times I remember.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You wanted them to take it? You were offering...
Prabhupāda: No, suppose a big monkey comes and takes. You are stunned. (laughter) You have to give him. No other way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will attack otherwise.
Prabhupāda: In Rādhā-Dāmodara temple I was cooking the other room. So although the door was closed, he knew, he opened the door and took away my prasādam. Sometimes they would take away... (door opens) Come on. The, what is called, dough? For...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cāpāṭis?
Prabhupāda: Cāpāṭi. So they will eat that.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Monkey's business.
Prabhupāda: He could not understand where Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura should be placed. You have understood. You are so intelligent, overintelligent. That means rascals. Overintelligent means rascal. Bhaktisiddhānta Ṭhākura, he remained so many years and he could not understand. You have understood to make Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura a gatekeeper. You tell him next time when you..., that "You are overintelligent." (break) ...statue of..., picture, I think, of Bhakti... That Sakhi Babu.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which bābu?
Prabhupāda: Sakhi Babu.
Jayapatākā: Yes, Sakhi Babu, he is there.
Bhavānanda: Opposite.
Prabhupāda: Sannyāsa means ultimate success, because this human life is meant for becoming disgusted with this material life: "No more." Material life means to take a body and enjoy this material āhāra-nidrā, sleeping twenty-four hours, eating like elephant, and sex life like a monkey, these animals. This is material life, eating, sleeping, mating, and always afraid of. This is material life. And human life means to take freedom from these four things: no more afraid, no more sex, no more hankering after eating or sleeping. That is success. Everyone... You'll see in the sparrow in the morning. They're enjoying sex. So this is material life: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca. And spiritual life means to become free from all this nonsense. That is spiritual life. They do not know what is spiritual life. The whole world, they do not know what is spiritual life. This is spiritual life, to become free from these four abominable things.
Prabhupāda: That means cheating themselves. What is the use of taking sannyāsa and cheat yourself? Material life means punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly doing the same thing. Either as human being or as monkey or as a small ant or the demigods, but doing the business is the same, four things: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. In different scale, doing the same business. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaḥ, "again and again," carvita-carvaṇānām, "chewing the chewed." If one is sober, he thinks that "These four business, I have done many, many lives, as sparrow, or as jackal, or as demigod, and I have got this human form. Again I am doing this? So what is benefit of this human form of life?" This is sense. "I got this valuable life, and I am still doing the same thing as dogs and cats and sparrows? Then what is the difference between me and the dogs?" That is sense. "What is my better engagement?" That better engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then his life is successful. Otherwise what is the use of...? Again become a sparrow. Again wait for millions of years to come by evolutionary process to the human form of life. You see? This is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Because they cannot control the sense, they are going in the darkest part of this material existence.
Prabhupāda: They think because they are foolish rascals. They do not know what is the value of life. Big, big professor, he said, "Swamiji, after death everything is finished. There is no soul." Professor Kotovsky. This is their education.
Dayānanda: And then they wonder why their sons become hippies and act like monkeys. Even though they are civilized, their sons are acting like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Actually we are introducing the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to make the Western people civilized. Yes. So you should take it very seriously and behave with responsibility. If you also want, become again like that, then how you'll be able to preach? Then what is the use of preaching? What is time?
Indian man (1): Six-thirty.
Jayapatākā: (Break) ...process.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There must be always all full of flowers.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very many flowers coming.
Prabhupāda: They are maintaining big, big monkey. No matta het.(?) That...
Jayapatāka: Maintaining.
Prabhupāda: That...
Jayapatāka: Maintaining Hanuman.
Prabhupāda: What they are doing?
Jayapatāka: Well, they are feeling.... (break)
Prabhupāda: ...if there is water. And if there is lowland, the whole water will go to the lowland. And that means you have two or three canals, there will be no more flood.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you need the land to make the canals.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Prabhupāda: That, that.... Therefore they are rascals.
Madhudviṣa: ...at one time that all the vegetation was...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. Now they say, the Darwin rascal says, that from monkey man came. Why the monkeys now do not give men? That is rascaldom, false theory.
Gurukṛpā: They say they can make crossbreed.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You are the cause of this crossbreeding. It is not accident. You are making arrangement; therefore it is.... There is cause. It is not accident. There is no accident. (break) ...man promises that "You just surrender to me; I will take care of you, everything," so whether I shall do it or not?
Acyutānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You, you prepare brain, or keep something that by chance there will be a brain.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Make a monkey's brain by chance.
Yaśodānandana: In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in one of your purports, you mention that great scientists like Einstein, Newton and Chandra Bose had such great brains, but who has created their brain?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśodānandana: This is a very clever argument of Your Divine Grace.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Yaśodānandana: That they will not research.
Prabhupāda: That means you are so ignorant. You are so ignorant. The law of God, law is.... God is personally speaking, "This is the law." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the law. God is speaking personally, and you do not know? And you are advertising very expert in reading Bhagavad-gītā, and you do not know the law? This is going on. Big, big scholars, big, big monkey, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times daily, but do not know what is law. This is going on. In Bengali there is a saying, "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." You know the monkey, big monkey, Hanumānjī. He jumped over. So ask any other monkey, "Can you jump?"—melancholy. (laughter) Similarly, big, big scholars of Bhagavad-gītā and do not know what is the law of God. This is going on. Big, big commentary, big, big book, but the law he does not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is life. One who is enthusiastic to preach, he is living. Others are dead. Just see how beautiful. Who is the rascal scientist can manufacture that by combination of chemicals?
Hari-śauri: They can imitate the fragrance. (laughs) They can imitate like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: If you see only to the flowers, you become invigorated.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If you see only?
Prabhupāda: Invigorated, get a refreshment.
Hari-śauri: If you just see a flower. Yes, just to walk through a nice garden, it's very pacifying.
Prabhupāda: How many different colors and set up, craftsmanship. There is no brain behind.
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is the benefit? The benefit? The goats are vegetarian. Eh? There are so many animals. They are vegetarian. The monkeys are vegetarian.
Dr. Patel: They are perfect vegetarian. Perfect.
Prabhupāda: And they live in the forest.
Dr. Patel: They are sannyāsīs. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: But number-one rogue. Each of them keeping one dozen women, at least, and no discrimination between wife or daughter. No discrimination. Just like hogs. That's all. No discrimination.
Yaśomatī-nandana: Cows are also vegetarians.
Prabhupāda: Don't think we are vegetarian. We can become anything, provided it is eaten from the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. This is our.... To become vegetarian.... There are many animals who are vegetarians. The monkeys are vegetarian; the goats are vegetarian; the cows are vegetarian. So that is not a good qualification, to become vegetarian and become an animal. Or to become lion, tiger, dog. So either you are vegetarian or meat-eater, there are many animals. So we are not going to be animals. We are going to become human being. This is our philosophy. Grouping ourself to the vegetarian kingdom or nonvege.... The animals.... The tiger is a great nonvegetarian. Fresh blood they want to eat, drink.
Mr. Dixon: Your Grace, do you keep in touch with the world through television or newspapers or the media?
Prabhupāda: Yes, many newspaper, many television men, they come. But we speak our philosophy plainly.
Prabhupāda: This is the important men.
Guru-kṛpā: That one Marwari spent eighteen lakhs of rupees.
Prabhupāda: I do not know eighteen lakhs, but I know he went to Germany for medical operation and changing the gland with monkey's gland. Yes. He was eighty years old at that time.
Devotee (2): The leaders are so infected. There was an article recently...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). That is already dictated by Bhāgavata. These leaders, rascals who are blind, and they are trying to lead other blind men. All of them are falling in the ditch.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the case of Mahārāja Veṇa there was some recourse for the brāhmaṇas. What can we do?
Prabhupāda: Mother Yaśodā is always anxious. "Kṛṣṇa is crawling. Whether He is falling down in some water or some monkey has come, hurting Him, or...?" Always. Or "He is touching some fire." Always anxiety. And besides that, the demons are coming. So this is perfection. Always remain in anxiety for Kṛṣṇa.
Guru-kṛpā: (break) They just think, na śocati na kāṅkṣati.
Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī rascal, Caitanya Mahāprabhu has condemned them, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If you hear Māyāvādī association, then your bhakti life is finished. Don't touch them. (break) Still, they are little more than the karmīs. (break) ...this place they are dragged through this, what is called? Short grass? Through this.
Devotee (1): That is anxiety, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That is anxiety, when one goes to Yamarāja and has to face.
Prabhupāda: That is the result of material anxiety. (break) To become anxiety-less, no more anxiety. That is nonsense.
Prabhupāda: What do you think?
Devotee (2): There's no evidence, because you've explained many times that an orange always comes from an orange tree, a banana always comes from a banana tree, man always comes from man, and monkey always comes from monkey. We find that actually things are not happening by chance. That they're very much controlled.
Prabhupāda: There is. Nobody can deny it. Only this tenth-class man will deny it. Even third-class man, fourth class, he'll not deny. But what is that intelligence, one should make it a science. Intelligence there is no doubt about it.
Devotee (2): There's another theory that God created the universe, and then things are just happening haphazardly. There's no actual design or ultimate plan of creation. Simply He created, and things were set in motion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (japa) All these rascals should be approached that, first, "Whether you have come from your.... Is your father monkey? You say that from monkey man has come. You have come from monkey or from your father?" Ask him this question. Naturally he will be ashamed to say "Yes, I have come from some monkey." (laughs) Unless he is a great fool, he will not say it. Then your father comes from his father, from his father.... Where the monkey comes? Is there in the history of your family that your forefather...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we are studying the bones. That's what they say.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are digging up bones.
Prabhupāda: That also they cannot say, because we Hindus, we burn the bones. Where you get the bones?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but there's some groups that did not do that.
Prabhupāda: No, some group, not. As a general practice, all Hindus they burn, from time immemorial.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali verse) Baḍo baḍo bānare, baḍo baḍo peṭa, laṅkā dingahe manamarā heṅṭa(?). "Big, big monkey, big, big belly. Ceylon jumping, melancholy."
Hṛdayānanda: We are all big monkeys.
Candanācārya: How are they able to perpetuate such an enormous hoax?
Prabhupāda: Enormous hoax for the fools, not for the intelligent persons.
Hari-śauri: They never fooled you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: They never fooled you. (Prabhupāda laughs)
Candanācārya: That means that some people must know the actual truth about the hoax in the American system, so if we can find them...
Prabhupāda: So you are knowing that. State it.
Prabhupāda: There is no scientific. It is all rascal revolution. If you cannot answer these questions that you are created by your father, so why there should be no original creator? You cannot say that you have dropped from the sky.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, originally, everything came, man came from the monkey, monkey came from another animal, and everything came from an atom.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Come to practical, that you are created by your father. That you have to accept. So similarly, everything we see.... This car is created by someone. Everything we see, created. So how can you say there is no creator? Within our experience we see everything is created by someone.
Rāmeśvara: Creative energy is there.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, the fact is...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: They're risking living in Naraka-kuṇḍa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember one boy was living there for about three months, and you got very angry and told him that there were already enough monkeys in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Do not try to jump over like a monkey.
Rādhāvallabha: (break) The scientists have found some more brass pottery. So now they say that man first started using brass around thirty-five hundred years ago. They've announced this to the world.
Prabhupāda: Now they're not using?
Rādhāvallabha: No, they say that thirty-five hundred years ago is when man first started using brass. They've announced this to the world.
Prabhupāda: And when one is fully prepared, he takes sannyāsa after vānaprastha life. So vanaṁ gataḥ means one should prepare by going to the forest for the next life of renounced order of life. That is human civilization: brahmacārī, gṛhasta, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Sannyāsa means full engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). Otherwise, what is the use of going to the forest? In the forest there are many monkeys also. So that kind of life is not harim āśrayeta. He must take shelter of the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari. That is oṁ tat sat. And then he'll be happy. That is Vedic civilization. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching to the boys, his class friends. He was five-years-old boy. Naturally, his friends are also of the same age, and he's teaching this bhāgavata-dharma. Read this.
Prabhupāda: Therefore not many people come here. (break) ...animal kingdom, by nature's arrangement, the couple, one male and one female, is fixed up, fixed up, this one female, one male. But amongst the monkeys, dogs and jackals, there is no fixed up.
Hari-śauri: Anything that comes along.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore in the human society, a man and woman not fixed up, they are monkeys, jackals and dogs. By marriage it is fixed up, but if they do not fix up, they are compared with the jackals, dogs and monkeys.
Hari-śauri: Hogs as well?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Hogs, also like.
Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I remember in Atlanta last year when an Indian Ph.D. came to see you and was sitting at your lotus feet, and he spoke about the problems in India, overpopulation and hunger, and then he said to you, "Swamiji, you must always realize the realities." And you said to him, "You don't know the reality." And he did not answer one word. He is now always coming to the temple, although he is working with the monkeys on behavior study. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: So anyone has any objection to this statement?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was thinking that Kṛṣṇa also says that aghāyur indriyārāmo moghaṁ pārtha sa jīvati. This is useless, spending your time in sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, aghāyur indriyārāmo.
Devotee: Monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Monkeys also. So monkey's the forefather of Darwin. Better kill them so that there is no opportunity of criticism that "You are coming from monkey." You extinct this species. It is rather insulting. If I say that you are descendant of monkey, then it is insult. So extinct this monkey. I don't think there is monkey here. Africa there is monkey. You have been in Africa? There are monkey-eating birds. Top of the tree, monkey, they catch up on the head and drop it from high. And then they take it. (pause) There was a boat which belonged to this house. I think he has sold it.
Mādhavānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: There was no objection.
Mādhavānanda: He sold it to the lawyer, Ambarīṣa's lawyer. He did not do a very good job for us, and the proof is that the owner sold the boat to the lawyer. He got a very good deal. So he was working with Groane(?), the former owner.
Prabhupāda: There are some deers.
Ambarīṣa: Yes. Yes. I just saw a raccoon just now when I was getting the car. There are some in there.
Prabhupāda: There is no monkey?
Ambarīṣa: (laughter) No. (break)
Satsvarūpa: No monkey in the United States. (break) "Nature Center" it says.
Prabhupāda: Nature?
Satsvarūpa: You know what that is, Ambarīṣa?
Ambarīṣa: No, I don't know. I have no idea. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...monkey.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...their achievement, no more death? As soon as you ask this question, matte kara heṭ. Baḍo baḍo baḍo badora(?) baro baro pet laṅkā diṅgaya matte karo heṭ. "Big, big monkey, big, big, belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." What scientific advancement? Do you think there will be no more death? Matte kore heṭ: (?)"Yes, we are trying." Answer them, "What is your achievement?" All achievement will be, remain in your back and you'll have to die. So what you have done, insurance, that you'll enjoy this? You'll be kicked out of the scene at any moment. What you have done for this? What is the answer? Mattaḥ kore heṭ "Yes, we are trying." (laughter) Nonsense, you are trying. And we have to see this nonsense. We are not so fool. And if they say, "What you are doing?" "Yes, we are doing that. How to conquer over death." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti (BG 4.9). That is we are trying. That is real scientific.
Prabhupāda: "Yes, we are doing that. How to conquer over death." Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti, mām eti (BG 4.9). That is we are trying. That is real scientific. And what is method? Very simple: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru mām evaiśyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68). "Without any doubt, he comes to Me." This is science. Why shall I waste time? Svarūpa Dāmodara challenged one scientist in California that "If I give you the chemicals, can you manufacture life?" He said, "That I cannot say." What you have spoken all this nonsense? Mattaḥ kore heṭ. And when there is challenge, mattaḥ kore heṭ. Otherwise, baro baro bagara, baro baro phet, big, big monkey, big, big belly. And when the real question is there, mattaḥ kore het. Ceylon jumping, melancholy. Hanumān jumped over the ocean, so other monkeys, they also become very proud: "I am..., Hanumān is our leader, we can...," "Can you jump over Ceylon?" Mattaḥ het. (break) ...speak all these things, Indian villagers, they will immediately believe. One cobbler.... I think I narrated this story. Nārada Muni was going to Vaikuṇṭha. Did I say that?
Prabhupāda: And the deed is encouraged: "Yes, you do this. Enjoy life." What is his enjoyment? If anyone sees slaughterhouse, will he enjoy? Eh? What is...? He visits a slaughterhouse, is it enjoyment? But he takes as enjoyment. (Sanskrit), unnecessary, without any meaning. Mad, just like a madman acts, without any meaning. The monkey acts without any meaning. (Sanskrit), unnecessarily creating disturbance. (Sanskrit) sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. If you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then all (Sanskrit) is finished. (Sanskrit) We are no more interested in unnecessary things. Illicit sex—one side they are encouraging contraceptive method, so why they'll not stop illicit sex, then automatically there is contraceptive method? So one side there is encouraged, contraceptive method, another, unlimited, unrestricted sex. This is their civilization. Why not teach him not to practice illicit sex? Then everything is done automatically. There's no need of contraceptive method. If one is trained up to indulge in sex only for begetting nice children, there is already contraceptive method. There is no necessity of unnecessarily producing cats and dogs children. So that requires training, determination. The śāstra says you should not become father if you cannot train up your children to save him from death. Who is the father who's training? To save him from the cycle of birth and death means to make him Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: You do not know expert. So if we remain under the guidance of Kṛṣṇa, then we also become expert to some extent. And Kṛṣṇa's expertly service or intelligence we can see in the flower, so many flowers. So why shall I not take shelter of Kṛṣṇa? Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). That is intelligence. That is intelligence. We see Kṛṣṇa's expertly manipulation. So if we take Kṛṣṇa's shelter, at least we shall get little intelligence. Dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. "He gets the intelligence directly from Me." And that is wanted. Why it is foolishly dealing with this rice, dahl and make spoil everything? Be little expert from Kṛṣṇa's instructions and make everything nice. Kṛṣṇa personally teaches how to deal with cows. He never showed the example of killing the cows. He maintained the cows, the calf. He was distributing butter even to the monkeys. And the pasturing ground became muddy on account of milk dropping from the bags. This is Kṛṣṇa. And He is personally taking care. So why the Kṛṣṇa's devotees should not do it?
Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal. Not only blindly we are rejecting, but with reason. (end)
Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there.
Prabhupāda: ...bora bora phet, lanka dinga ke matta kare het(?) It was translated by a Mr. Roe, a professor in the Presidency College, he translated "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." When the problems of life is read, then they are melancholy, all these big, big scientists. Ceylon jumping melancholy. Hanumān, one monkey, he jumped over the Ceylon. So other monkeys also, they were very much proud that a monkey jumped over the ocean. And as soon as he was challenged, "Can you jump over?" melancholy. Ceylon jumping melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. These are the translation by Mr. Roe, a professor of English in Presidency College. So what is the proposal now?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to discuss about the journal that we are proposing to have from the Institute.
Prabhupāda: No, no, may be on this planet, but it doesn't matter that it is extinct. You have not seen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that's a fact.
Rāmeśvara: Their idea is that at that time man was living in the form of half monkey, half man in a cave, and gradually he evolved to become more civilized.
Prabhupāda: That is still there. Kinnaras. Kinnaras means it is doubtful whether he is man or monkey.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow.
Prabhupāda: There is a Kinnara-loka. Kimpuruṣa. Kinnara. They are still existing. It is not that they are finished.
Prabhupāda: There is a Kinnara-loka. Kimpuruṣa. Kinnara. They are still existing. It is not that they are finished.
Hari-śauri: I was reading a magazine when we were on the plane, and it was describing this type of monkey man, that they are being called, they existed in snow wastes.
Prabhupāda: Or what is called? The big...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Orangutan, gorilla.
Prabhupāda: Gorilla, they are like men.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, they are. Very much like men. We see them in the zoo.
Prabhupāda: They have got their senses like men.
Rāmeśvara: Rādhāvallabha.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...monkey.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Rāmeśvara: Rādhāvallabha is your faithful servant.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Guarding you. (break) (outside car)
Ghanaśyāma: We were talking about the pictures, the paintings in the books. We were mentioning how professors liked the paintings and how sometimes they actually buy the books because of the nice paintings. Sometimes when we go back to see a professor or librarian a year later, we'll notice that they'll have a catalogue up on the bulletin board. Sometimes they'll take the cover of the jacket of the book and they'll put it on display. And now we're getting recognized when we go to some of the colleges. They say, "Oh, you're the man with the nice colorful books.
Rāmeśvara: They have this one display trying to prove that..., the Darwin theory of evolution. They have these bones, and they say this proves how man was formerly like an ape or a monkey. Now he has become more civilized.
Prabhupāda: So where is Darwin's bones?
Rāmeśvara: Then they have one display showing...
Prabhupāda: No, no, Darwin got all this knowledge. His bones should be studied first, how he got so much knowledge. And from which monkey he came. By studying the bones, discover it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Complete concoction.
Prabhupāda: Ask them to find out from which monkey the Darwin's bone has come. They may decide. Study the bones of Darwin. And spoiling public money in this way. (break)
Prabhupāda: Very good, but I could not digest them. That is my fault, but, oh, it was so nice palatable. Chick peas, chick peas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery, drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man. With character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to date. We have already got. We say you cannot go there, you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge. No, you can attempt, just like a monkey, that's all right. But our verdict is already there. You cannot go there. Ten years before I said this moon excursion is simply childish and waste of money in my Easy Journey to Other Planets.
Prabhupāda: He has to preach in every village and every town on the surface of the globe about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So our business is... Just this example I have given, that there is fire. I do not know the language. Still, I have to call and take help. So I am doing like that. There is a story. In Calcutta when the Britishers were establishing themselves, so one clerk was working in the office and some monkey came and scattered the office files and everything. So his boss came, he asked him, "What is this, why you?" So he cannot explain, so he began to jump like monkey, that on account of the monkey coming within the room. So when the language is unknown we have to jump and show that the monkey came.
Yogeśvara: Professor Chenique thanks you very much for receiving him, and he says that he is...
Prabhupāda: Many thanks for his coming.
Yogeśvara: ...he is very happy to see you, and he does not have any questions. He appreciates very much the Vaiṣṇava point of view.
Prabhupāda: Take this to the daughter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They will fall down. This is their gain of life. We have discussed this point. Why the green apple does not fall down? So this is their concoction. And why the other planets do not fall down? With so many rocks. Millions. They do not fall down. Where is the law of gravity acting? That means, law means it is made by somebody. And the maker, if He likes, it will act. If He does not like, it will not act. Just like Lord Rāmacandra, all the stones He threw over the sea and they began to float. Not that when He made that bridge with stones, they are solidified. No, they began to float. And all the monkeys went over them. So the lawmaker is Lord Rāmacandra. If He likes, the stone will go down. If He doesn't like, it will float. The lawmaker is fact, not the law. Just like in the state law, today it is law, tomorrow it is no law. It depends on the lawmaker. (break) ...there is the Govardhana Hill. What law is there?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vāco vegaṁ manasaḥ krodha-vegaṁ, pṛthivīṁ sa śiṣyāt. Etān vegān yo viṣa... You are manipulated by the udara-vegam, upastha-vegam. First there is test: etān vegān yo viṣaheta dhīraḥ (NOI 1). Then for him Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). He has got three dozen sevā-dāsī, and living in Rādhā-kuṇḍa. My Guru Mahārāja wanted to publish Govinda-līlāmṛta. He asked permission of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. So first of all Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, "I'll tell you some day." And when he reminded, he said, "Yes you can print one copy. If you are so much anxious to print it, print one copy. You'll read and you will see that you have printed. Not for distribution." So we are printing all these books for understanding properly. Not that "Here is Rādhā-kuṇḍa. Let us go." Jump over like monkey. "Here is rāsa-līlā. Immediately..."
Acyutānanda: Even in Kṛṣṇa book rāsa-līlā should not be told in public.
Prabhupāda: No, why? Kṛṣṇa book must be there, in the book must be there.
Prabhupāda: There are birds who can take away the elephant for eating. Such big birds. They can carry elephant like a small rat.
Caraṇāravindam: Is such a bird the bird that was a servant of Sītā?
Prabhupāda: And monkey-eating birds I have seen in Los Angeles. They go very high on the top of a tree and capture a monkey. And take him high and drop him. As soon as he falls he dies, then again comes down and eats it.
Caraṇāravindam: We need one of those birds here to capture these monkeys.
Prabhupāda: There are so many wonderful creations. That is God's inconceivable energy. (end)
Prabhupāda: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution, if we do not become very simple servant of Kṛṣṇa, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Kṛṣṇa, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). No other purpose than to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is only purpose. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). So our only business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa in His original status as Kṛṣṇa, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu nor Kṛṣṇa has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Kṛṣṇa has never said. That is not Kṛṣṇa's neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu's business. That is not required. Boro boro bado bado phet lanka mata kore het.(?) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vṛndāvana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission all over the world—melancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching, that is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go. What do you think?
Hari-śauri: We haven't got rid of those monkeys.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They've gone?
Hari-śauri: No. There's some on the roof.
Prabhupāda: The (indistinct) is there? In the open?
Hari-śauri: No, it's undercover.
Devotee: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Jaya.
Hari-śauri: I was just telling him the monkeys are still there.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still there? They've gone.
Caraṇāravindam: I've just seen five minutes ago.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We know where those monkeys are coming from.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We know where those monkeys are coming from.
Hari-śauri: The monkeys live on the porch. One of those porches on the guest house where Arundhatī's room is. Around the other side.
Prabhupāda: You have not closed?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not in the dome. We looked into that. It's covered. Dome's completely...
Prabhupāda: No, the top room they have not closed?
Hari-śauri: No, they have balconies. They said... I was told that they're living on one of the balconies around the other side where Arundhatī's room is. They don't chase them away so they just stay.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I just want the name of the person who gave us that land in Orissa because I'm getting this retyped.
Prabhupāda: The name is Nityananda Kananda.
Caraṇāravindam: Actually I must confess, generally most days I use a bit of banana leaf to take some of your remnants on. Take a bit on a banana leaf, and then take from there. It is very handy. Actually the monkeys they come and also they eat this leaf. They often come and tear off a piece of leaf and sit on this eating them. Monkey.
Prabhupāda: That is destructive. They do not know.
Caraṇāravindam: They sit there eating them.
Prabhupāda: Because they do not get anything they make mischief. They're very mischievous. If they do not get any eatables they will cause mischief.
Caraṇāravindam: They sometimes come if a new shoot in the banana. The inside shoot, they break and take that. They seem to enjoy. I've seen them. They break it and eat it.
Hari-śauri: Do monkeys have any use? (laughs)
Prabhupāda: They have only use, their fat is very good medicine for burns. Some portion is burned, monkey fat is very good medicine. The Chinese eat their brains.
Caraṇāravindam: The Japanese also do that. They drink it. They drink it through straws.
Prabhupāda: Monkey brain?
Caraṇāravindam: Yes. They cut the skull off a live monkey. They cut the skull off like egg and drink the brain through straw. I read in magazine how they do this. It's very common practice now.
Prabhupāda: Where they get this monkeys?
Caraṇāravindam: The monkey's alive and as you drink its brain it dies. They think this is also sport to them. Big horrible demons.
Prabhupāda: ...forest, naked, renounced, eating fruits. But debauch number one. Markaṭa-vairāgya. There are so many vairāgīs. Markaṭa. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has said, ei 'ta kali-celā. Here is a disciple of Kali. Nāke tilaka galāi mālā. But has got a tilaka on the forehead and neckbeads on the neck. But is Kali-celā-number one disciple of Kali. You know this song? Kali-celā. These persons who are committing sinful life—don't say anyone (laughs) or publish—there will be trouble. But that's a fact. Those who are living in Vṛndāvana and acting like monkey, they'll get next life—a monkey. To remain in Vṛndāvana, and then next life they will be liberated. In one life all their sinful activities will be punished. Because as soon as animal life is obtained, there is no more further record of the sinful life. The animals cannot make sinful activities more than what is destined by him. But their sinful activity is not taken into account. For this man who is offered this monkey's body, he suffers the inconvenience of monkey life. So his sinful activities are counteracted, and because he came to Vṛndāvana and lived in Vṛndāvana by the mercy of Rādhārāṇī, next life he will be... That is the glory of Vṛndāvana-dhāma. Otherwise what is the explanation of these dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana? If it is dhāma-aparādha, committing offense in dhāma. Dhāma-aparādha.
Harikeśa: The dogs and monkeys, they feel grateful?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when they come to sense they feel grateful. As dogs they cannot. As dog or monkey they cannot enhance their sinful activities. It is stopped. And whatever they do, that is not taken into account. And to suffer as dog or monkey means counteracting all previous sins. One punishment finished. Then he's fully liberated.
Harikeśa: I was always wondering that if somebody's desire is to commit sinful activities...
Prabhupāda: No, in Kali-yuga if you desire it is not sinful. And act...
Harikeśa: If they desire to commit sinful activities and before they became monkeys, but then they were doing it then. So whilst they're monkeys their desire must change. Or is it forced, that change forced upon them by the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?
Harikeśa: Last year they bit Upendra. Remember that? Upendra went to Sevā-kuñja and the monkeys came and took away all of his prasādam and bit him in the leg.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Many monkeys were deported by the government but people protested. They were capturing monkeys...
Harikeśa: Here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Government. And selling at good price in Europe for taking their hormone. The monkey's hormone is injected or replaced so one regains his sex power. They are very sexually strong.
Harikeśa: That must interfere with that monkey's spiritual life. That interferes with the spiritual life of the monkey? Because then he can't die in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: It is further from them. Everything is being done by superior arrangement. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). People should learn all these things by practical example instead of becoming irresponsible and without any obedience to the superior law. They should learn it, but they have no intelligence. They think, "We are all free." Wherefrom the monkey is coming, why there are so many varieties of life, how it is...? What do they know? Nothing. All bluff, vague explanation and that is going on in the name of science. This is the position. All rascals. Fortunately we have got this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Bhagavad-gītā. All knowledge. First-class knowledge. (break) ...eternally-enjoyment. For him everything, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Everything ānanda. He has no such thing that this is harmful, that this is useful. That is Kṛṣṇa. Because nobody can do harm to Him and neither in the spiritual world, anyone is harmful. Everyone is advanced devotee. Even the tigers, they are also devotees.
Haṁsadūta: In some temples which are built like this with a courtyard, they put a screen over the top so that the birds don't come in. Can we do that or is that because...
Prabhupāda: No, monkeys.
Haṁsadūta: Oh, for monkeys. It keeps the birds out too. We have so many birds that come in. They sleep in the tree and they pass stool all over the place.
Hari-śauri: Pigeons too.
Haṁsadūta: Yes pigeons and small birds. In the lamps they are, in the fans they are.
Prabhupāda: Pigeons will come. (laughs) They'll enter with this.
Devotee: In the grills.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, but even here a screen can be put.
Prabhupāda: In Hong Kong. Yes. In Hong Kong you won't find street dogs. They'll eat them. So in India also there are dog-eaters. In Assam you'll find. They make kukura-piṭhā. Kukura-piṭhā means that first of all the dog is given to eat some rice preparation with gur (Indian brown sugar). And pushing, pushing. When he dies, then it is roasted. Then that is very good food. (laughter) Kukura-piṭhā. The Assamese, they eat. There are different nations. Śva-paca, this word is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca (BG 5.18). This śva-pāke means this caṇḍāla. One who eats a dog. Śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ. So everyone can be raised to the platform of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no difficulty. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement. So from early in the morning He is teaching. Udilo aruṇa pūraba-bhāge dwija-maṇi gorā amani jāge. He was not lazy. He was very busy. From early in the morning. So if we at least pretend to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we cannot sleep. We must rise early in the morning. If you want to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu, there is no question of sleeping in the morning. One must get up at least one and a half hours before the sunrise. That is maṅgala-ārati. Maṅgala-ārati means to get up early in the morning, take your bath, and be prepared for the maṅgala-ārati. Then begin your chanting, prayer. This is activity. It is not... Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not a lazy life. It is not lazy life. All Kṛṣṇa conscious, Rāma conscious, they are very busy. To speak, even the Hanumān, Jambavān, Aṅgada, they are monkeys, still how they were busy, from the history we find, to serve Kṛṣṇa, Rāmacandra.
Prabhupāda: No, first of all, you are born in India. Why you are jumping to Bible? (laughter) This is another foolishness. You take care of your own house. You are jumping like monkey to Bible. (laughter)
Indian man (4): In our own house there are quite a few dharmas.
Prabhupāda: Therefore ācāryavān puruṣo veda. You have to follow the ācāryas. In our country there are ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, those who are recognized authority. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda. In the Bhagavad-gītā, ācāryopāsanam. You have to worship the ācārya.
Indian man (6): You have to look up your...
Prabhupāda: That is rascals' theory. Nothing extinct.
Indian man (4): This is not correct.
Prabhupāda: No. Just like he says that man comes from monkey. Monkey is extinct? Where is the question of extinction? There is no question of extinction. There are different species of life, and according to your karma... Just like there are first-class, second-class, third-class compartments. If you pay for the first-class, you enter into first-class. You cannot say that third-class is extinct. According to your karma... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). According to... As you pay. If you pay for third-class, you enter into third-class compartment. If you pay for first-class, you enter into first-class. So it is according to your karma you'll get a body. Why it should be extinct?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (3): "Perform your prescribed duties, for action is better than inaction."
Prabhupāda: But if you have no prescribed duties, then you are animal. Just like monkey. What is his duty? He is jumping simply and creating havoc. Monkey is very busy. Wherever he'll sit down, he'll "Gat, gat, gat, gat," like this. That's all. Very busy. But what is the meaning of his business? Simply creating disturbance Therefore it is said, niyataṁ kuru karma tvam: "Act on your prescribed duties." Don't act like a monkey. That is better. What is that?
Devotee (3): "For action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."
Prabhupāda: Then? Purport?
Prabhupāda: What is the business? "Where is stool?" That's all. And as soon as he's strong then, "Where is sex," without any discrimination. That is hog's life. So human life is not meant for spoiling like hog's life. Therefore niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. You should classify yourself amongst the four divisions, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), and then your prescribed duties are there. If you want to become a brāhmaṇa, then śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42). If you want to be kṣatriya, tejaḥ... What is that? Tejaḥ śauryaṁ yujyaṁ yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam īśvara-bhāvaś ca kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam. If you want to be a vaiśya, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). And if you want to remain a śūdra, paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam. And that is prescribed duty. You classify yourself, either as a brāhmaṇa or as a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, by quality, not by caste or by whims, no. Actually by qualification. Then you engage yourself in that duty. That is niyataṁ karma tvam. Otherwise, jumping like monkeys, that is not karma. That is monkey's dance. It has no value. Wasting time. You should not waste time, a single moment. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, niyataṁ kuru karma tvam. So make that. Don't waste your time. That's all right. And she is child. What can be done? You cannot...
Prabhupāda: What Kṛṣṇa says, you hear and do. Just like you are now acting, family conscious or country conscious or society conscious. The dog is also working as dog conscious. Monkey is working, monkey conscious. He is thinking, "I am monkey." You are thinking you are Indian. He is thinking he is American. He is thinking as..., so on, so on, different consciousness. But when you act Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is your real dharma. Now we are working under different consciousness, therefore varieties. And when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is oneness, perfection, to act according to the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). What Kṛṣṇa says, you act accordingly. You are acting... The Communists, they are acting Lenin consciousness. Is it not? Their god is Lenin. I have been in Moscow. Everywhere Lenin's picture, Lenin's book, and they are worshiping Lenin's tomb. That is Lenin consciousness. So similarly, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Prehistoric. They call it pre—history, living in caves, monkey men. Also I was thinking, in the movie they can take the testimonial of different scholars and professors in India about your books and about chanting as a process for awakening the mind, because they are accusing us that "By chanting, you are killing your brain." So if we take...
Prabhupāda: That, it is acting, rascal, on brain. We are teaching or giving them process. That you cannot understand. But our mantra is so strong that it is acting on the brain. So why don't you take this side, that "If we are simply chanting and it is acting on the brain, even from your side, that it is so strong that we are giving up everything for this process. So how much this chanting is strong, why don't you see to that?"
Rāmeśvara: We can even take testimony from some scientists...
Prabhupāda: Markaṭa-vairāgya, the renunciation of a monkey.
Bhāgavata: You have explained in Fifth Canto. Verses are there. Renunciation like a monkey.
Gurukṛpa: One man had his arm up for twelve years. He had his arm up with his hands closed, and his fingernails had grown, and his arm was flat for keeping up for twelve years like Hiraṇyakaśipu.
Hari-śauri: We saw one man in the Rāmānuja camp, too. He hadn't sat down for eighteen years. He carried a small swing with him, so wherever he went, he would go underneath a tree and hang the swing and lean on it. And he'd not sat down for eighteen years. (laughter) He had bandages all over his legs.
Bhāgavata: They have concocted this. It is not written in Vedas anywhere.
Prabhupāda: No, there are. Hiraṇyakaśipu did it.
Prabhupāda: Don't you see? You have no eyes? Who is publishing these books? If you have education, read it. Simply jumping like monkey is good, do you think? Here is intelligence and appreciation. Do you mean to say...? The monkey is very busy. Who likes that? After all, it is monkey. So your doing something is like jumping of the monkey and dogs. Who likes it? And you are simply creating problem by your so-called busy-ness. Better you stop and read our books and be intelligent. Lazy mischief-maker, it is better than busy mischief maker. Busy mischief maker means he'll commit more mischief. Just like monkey. What is the use of his becoming busy? He'll simply create mischief. So better... An lazy mischief maker is better than the busy mischief maker.
Rāmeśvara: Maybe you should just read some of those letters.
Satsvarūpa: The note from Svarūpa Dāmodara? This is January 15th. (break)
Prabhupāda: Vaiśyas also. Śūdras also.
Hari-śauri: Like monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Like monkeys, yes. Markaṭa-vairāgya. (break) And they are living very rich. And if you make big, big cities without industry, cities cannot be maintained. You'll require so many instruments, machine. That means you require (indistinct). If you require food, there is no need of industry.
Satsvarūpa: I remember in school seeing films of India, and they would say, "This is very backward. They're living as they used to live hundreds of years ago by using the ox and the plow."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we have, hundred years after, we have learned how to kill ox and bulls. That is your advancement. And kill your own children also. Rascal civilization. They say "primitive." I was talking with a priest in Australia. So he said, "This civilization you are suggesting, this is primitive." Do they call it primitive?
Bhāgavata: From the forest of Katiwan.(?) (break)
Prabhupāda: ...monkey and cow. Rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa, sattva-guṇa. Lion in the rajo-guṇa, monkey in the tamo-guṇa and cow in the sattva-guṇa.
Hari-śauri: What about the cows that they slaughter? Do they have to continue in a cow birth?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhāgavata: These are African lions.
Prabhupāda: Oh. They are bigger?
Bhāgavata: Little different species. Different color. (lion growls)
Satsvarūpa: Don't tease him.
Prabhupāda: No, don't tease him. After all, they are lion. Hm, they are bigger, very big. Here there is cubs?
Prabhupāda: No, we shall go. The, what is called, evolution theory... Darwin said they take from monkey. But they do not know wherefrom the monkey comes. Does he give it chronologically?
Satsvarūpa: No. They say that both humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But they don't know what that is.
Prabhupāda: Who was your ancestor? (laughter) Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-vimśati. There is chronological order followed: first of all aquatics, then trees and plants, then insects, then reptiles, and in this way, then birds, then beasts, then human being. Which way? This? No.
Bhāgavata: If you want to go out, this way. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...it from Padma Purāṇa, and he has explained in his own imagination. The idea has been taken from Padma Purāṇa because the Padma Purāṇa, it is already there, evolution. Asatiṁ caturaṁś caiva. Eighty-four lakṣa means hundred thousand, 8,400,000. That is also given. Where is that, that Darwin's theory?
Prabhupāda: So price has not increased very much.
Bhavānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: Because in our childhood we used to purchase one big canister, Monkey Brand. That was considered to be very first-class. Less smoke. Four rupees and two annas.
Bhavānanda: But now it's difficult to get.
Prabhupāda: Formerly they used to stock huge stock in Calcutta. Burma Sale. And new tin, if you exchange the container, then six annas less. Not very costly. Of course, in those days it was costly, taking consideration of the purchasing power of money. Four rupees, I remember, a few annas. My father did not like to purchase anything retail. For his daily necessity he'll purchase, he would purchase potato, one bag. So one bag means, maybe, one rupee, eight annas. (laughs) One anna per seer, kilo, I have purchased. Rice, fifteen mounds he will purchase. And what is the price? Three rupees, four annas. First-class rice. Coal, this coal, coke. Five annas per mound, purchase one cart load, fifteen mounds. The other day I was calculating. My father's income was, utmost, three hundred rupees per month in those days.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's just near the present temple of Govinda that I was talking. It is a small forest full of monkeys, and they are so friendly.
Prabhupāda: Monkeys are very friendly.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. They're much more friendly than monkeys in Vṛndāvana. (laughing) I have seen that many, very healthy. There's some sort of welcome people coming. There are many. That place is some sort of a central place of Imphala. It's a very..., spiritually, a very conducive area. Many kinds of birds, and it's very natural surroundings. So I went with two of our life members, and they are thinking that maybe we can approach the government so that we can get the land from Manipur government, and then we can construct a temple.
Prabhupāda: And the so-called education, they are making devatā demons. We want to check it. The human being, he has got the opportunity. Human being is there to become a devatā. Therefore the Vedic knowledge is there, because he's coming from lower species of life, and they also admit they are coming from monkey. That's all right. But now make him man really. Where is that arrangement? You are keeping him monkey, jumping like monkey. That's all. So your, this so-called educational system, society, is good, or we are making the monkey to become to become devatā, this is good? What they will say? You have come from monkey, and now we are making them devatā. So this is a good process? Or you keep them as monkey, jumping like here and there, that is good? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is the way to make a monkey to become a demigod, or devatā. This is the Vedic injunction. "Now you should make him, this monkey, person coming from monkey, or a monkey, make him a devatā." And Caitanya Mahāprabhu has simplified: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You become devatā, Bas." What do you want more? Actually that is becoming. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and from monkey you become a devatā, demigod. What do you want, more? Therefore He's mahā-vadānyāvatāra, the most munificent incarnation, making monkey to devatā simply by chanting. See practically. Hm? Anyone protesting against this? (devotees laugh) Here is mother of our Jayapatākā Mahārāja.
Prabhupāda: No, why do you quote karma? Why you do not quote the beginning, the beginning of ABCD? If you have no knowledge of the ABCD, then karma... The monkey is also very busy, jumping, but as soon as a monkey comes, "Eh! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is thinking he's very busy. That, such kind of karma, will simply create disturbance. We must know what is karma. Karmaṇo hy api boddhavyam. We should understand what is karma. So anyway...
Guest (1): We are very grateful to you for your very kind work, but we have got something to do for ourself.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...therefore writing so many books. Bhagavad-gītā As It Is we are presenting. The Sanskrit verses you have written? Oh, very good. Hm. Nice. You are studying Sanskrit?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because you have got qualification-dhīra. What I say, you hear with patience. And those who are adhīra, they cannot. Sometimes... Aye. (someone enters) You can come this side. (break) Two words is very important. One is, that in the beginning one must be dhīra, not restless. Restlessness is for the animal, or a child. He is restless. He cannot understand. An animal, a cat and dog... Sometimes they remain very silent before the master, but not always. Their habit is not silent. So this understanding, that "I am not this body," is not possible for, say, restless person, that "I am not this body." It is specially mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, dhīra. He must not be a restless animal, always busy. Just like monkey. Monkey is always busy. But as soon as the monkey comes, everyone knows he is very busy. He can jump very nicely. And immediately they take a stick, "Get out! Get out! Get out!" Busy fool. Fool, if he remains little silent, so he does less harm. But if he is busy, he is more harmful. So this is the position at the present moment, that people are kept in the animal civilization and they are busy. So they are creating more harm. It is not for the good of the society. They are creating more harm. This dehātma-buddhi is the conception of the animals.
Prabhupāda: Where is another fish? There was no fish when you dug this well. These rascals are great rascals, and they are going on in the name of scientists. Another, another, where is that another? Another means that is God. These rascals, they do not know that. They simply "another." Who is that another? That is God. Simple logic. The child is there, the mother is there, there must be father. This is logic. Otherwise how the living entity came into existence? Talk on this point. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. Śāstra says in the beginning, jalajā, living entities born in the water. And they are not one kind. Not that one kind of fish is coming. Nava-lakṣāṇi. Nine hundred thousand different types of life, varieties, varieties of life. So how these rascals say that all of a sudden came another? What is that another? Answer it. What is that another? "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." (laughter) What is that another? That "another" is God. It is simple for us. We understand. Why? Because you are Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes. Machine, if you take the importance of the machine and not the machine driver, then what is your knowledge? If a dog is thinking "I am a bulldog, gow gow," and if a man is thinking "I am Indian, gow gow," what is the difference? He is embarrassed with the machine body, and he is also embarrassed with the machine body. The dog is jumping, monkey is jumping with a machine body, and if we also imitate jumping like the dog and the monkey, so what is the difference? The human being is to understand that "I am not this body." That is the first knowledge. That is the first principle.
Prabhupāda: That is brahma-jñāna. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. So these things are here in India. Instead of distributing, understanding these things, we are jumping like cats and dogs, like the Western civilization. Anthill and four-wheel dog race. These big, big buildings, they are like anthill. You know anthill? The ant also can make a big stack of earth. Does it mean it is civilization to compete with the ant? Or run with the dog? Sometimes if a car is driving, and dog is running, it is a competition and the dog running. Is that civilization? Without understanding, the whole thing is going on, running on like that. Why India should imitate? India has got so much great exalted knowledge given by Kṛṣṇa. India should learn it and teach it to the whole world. That is India's business. Paropakāra. And that is being done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Very important movement, very scientific movement. So do not neglect it. Come and join, learn it and give it to the whole world. This is the perfect knowledge, paropakāra. Not to imitate there and jump like monkeys and cats and dogs. This is not good.
Prabhupāda: Then let them, they will go to hell. What can be done? If you want to cut your own throat, you can do it, who can save you? But our duty is don't make suicide. We must be all sane and tactful. But if you commit suicide, that is your business. What can I do? We shall go on. This is suicidal condition, to live like cats and dogs and jump like monkeys. Losing the opportunity of human being, where you can understand? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is Vedānta-sūtra. They are neglecting it. They are neglecting it. You will go to hell. Kṛṣṇa says mām aprāpya. Everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I advised Gandhi that he should retire. He never retired. That's all right. And our program is, they have chucked out. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. You show your all nonsense ability up to fifty years. Don't go more than that. Because you are rascal, you will never be able to do anything, but jump like monkey up to fifty years, not more than that. Monkey jumping may be continued up to fifty years. Then retire. They will continue monkey jumping up to the last point of death.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he'll jump into the grave.
Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. In the body there is caste system. The head is the brāhmaṇa, the hand is the kṣatriya, the belly is the vaiśya and the leg is the śūdra. Everything head, that will not help. There must be leg also. But it must be conducted under the guidance of the head. Then it is all right. If the head is not there and leg is utilized for jumping, that is monkey's business. The leg must work according to the dictation of the head. The hand must work according to the dictation of the head. "The caste system should be abolished." What is the caste system? There is no caste system. Everyone is śūdra. Who is a brāhmaṇa now, qualified, except one or two in our camp?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The article ends by saying, "Let harijanas be their own pathfinders and let them lead themselves from darkness to light, from pain to pleasure."
Prabhupāda: That you do not know. Otherwise you would have done it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Even a monkey can be made to applaud.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. So their vote, their adoration, what is the value? By whose adoration you have become big? Some monkeys and some fools, some rascals, some dogs. And formerly it was the king should be approved by saintly brāhmaṇas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. And when the brāhmaṇas did not approve, they had the power of brahma-tejaḥ. Just like with Veṇa. Even in our own society, if someone is not doing nicely, then the others may, they come together and they say, "This person is not keeping standard." It is not that because I have power or something, one can maintain his position.
Prabhupāda: Scenery.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scenery's just beautiful. It's all on the foothills, and it's very charming, with the banyan trees and the monkeys, four classes of monkeys.
Prabhupāda: They are receptive.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. Very friendly. They're not like monkeys in... (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vṛndāvana.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: These monkeys are very friendly. They wait until they are given. They don't just steal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana they're a problem now.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's not in the middle. It's on the side, one of the sides of the... And there's a river, this Imphal River. It almost surrounds this little forest. And this forest is full of monkeys and so many birds, and they are very natural. It is about seven acres. It's not very big. Seven acres of land.
Prabhupāda: Seven acres.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Seven acres is a big plot.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. And other one is here. lt's called Vishnupur. Vishnupur is... There was a Viṣṇu temple. It was constructed in fourteen hundred and..., about 502 years ago, a temple. The temple is still there. It was built by a king called Kyambha in Manipur about that time. And he worshiped this Viṣṇu, and that place is called Vishnupur, that Viṣṇu. And this is... Actually this is a nicer place. That is ten acres. But this is a little away from the town, but the congregation is very good here. Comes from all places, from Burma...
Prabhupāda: How many miles?
Prabhupāda: He gave so much service to Kṛṣṇa. From his family maintenance... He could have renounced, but he said that the family has to be maintained. So he... Markaṭa-vairāgya. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura was against giving sannyāsa. He didn't like these bābājīs. They were markaṭa-vairāgya, superficially... Markaṭa-vairāgya means monkey. They live naked, eat fruits, live in the jungle. That is vairāgya. But three dozen wives. Markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa means monkey. Superficially vairāgya, nāgā-bābā. They eat vegetables, fruits, live in the jungle, no house, or, all, everything like vairāgya. But sex. We have... I have seen in Vṛndāvana. They have got a party, each monkey, women's party, and the male will come to any female, "Now ready," "Enter." You can see it. Markaṭa-vairāgya nāhi paraloka dasaya(?).So this should not be encouraged. Then gradually it will deteriorate into...
Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that how I can kill such enemies who are my family members? This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. (Hindi)
Indian man (3): There are two.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (laughter) And we want to be happy. Tri-tāpa-yantana,(?) three types of miseries, are always there. So Kṛṣṇa, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."
Prabhupāda: Why you want nonviolence?
Indian man (7): They are talking so much about nonviolence...
Prabhupāda: Just like here is a monkey. Is it not violence sometimes to drive away them? There will be attack, and you have to protect your... This world is not like that, that there is no... It is not Vaikuṇṭha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not..., you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. (Hindi) How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.
Indian man (7): What is meant by nonviolence?
Prabhupāda: It has no meaning.
Prabhupāda: This is India's culture. The whole world is in darkness, and they are risking their life in the transmigration of one body to another, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-var... The rascals do not know what they are doing. They are simply taking account of few years. He does not know that he's eternal. A few years, a fragment, a pass, passing way, that's all. A passing flash. And bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. This rascal... Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). This is Vaiṣṇava's concern that "These, what, rascals, they are doing?" That is Vaishnavism. "What these rascals are doing, jumping like monkey, wasting time?" That is Vaishnavism. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. These rascals do not know, driving motorcar, "ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata-ghata." He's going to fall down in the sea, but rascal does not know. He's racing with a dog. Dog is also running with full speed, and he's showing, "Oh, I have got this car. This much proud I am."
Prabhupāda: Introduce this, rascal. This party government, that party government, big, big belly, big, big monkey, eating cows and hogs and dogs, and they have become big, big minister. What they can do? That is not... This is the secret. What is the second line?
Yaśomatīnandana: Nadyaḥ samudrā girayaḥ...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no.
Yaśomatīnandana: Siṣicuḥ sma vrajān (SB 1.10.4).
Prabhupāda: Ah. Let them remain happy and automatically... Just like in our Philadelphia. Oh, such a big... Giving him thousand pounds. Yes, we are doing this, fatty. Cans of milk. Even the cat is happy. The dog is happy. There is no fight. Cat is so happy, stroking on the back of the cows. Similarly, the dog is... There is no "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" barking. I have seen it. Only through the medium of milk. These are not stories. I have seen. And who is Satyabhāmā's husband?
Upendra: They... The karmīs, they made one movie where the whole world was monkeys, "Planet of the Apes," and one human being came...
Prabhupāda: Rascal, they were monkeys. Now they have become human being, that change of position.
Upendra: They wouldn't...
Prabhupāda: You have to accept a change of body. Change of bodies you have to accept from your argument. You were monkeys; now you are human being. This is change of body.
Śatadhanya: Evolution means change of body.
Prabhupāda: Unique it is. There was no such proposal before. They have taken God as something mystic, imagination. Especially this rascal Darwin's theory, "People are animals," and they accept that "We are animals. My father was monkey." Very easy. This rascal has convinced them that "Your father, grandfather, were monkeys, and you are Sir Walton Rose(?)." "How I became a Sir Walton Rose, the son of a monkey?" This is their business. How much bluff. Disgusted learning and jump. A monkey has become man. Body's changed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is just nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Bhramyādbhiḥ. There are different forms of bodies of jīva. That is also stated. Jalajā nava-lakṣānī sthavara lakṣa-vimśati. So first of all, general, from water. That you have got experience. Fish is coming. As soon as there is some reservoir of water, after some day mosquito will come, fish will come, many other bugs and germs will come, jalajā. And their number is also given, nava-lakṣānī. In this way, bhramyādbhir jīva-jāti, the soul, the living entity, is wandering, jīva-jātiṣu. Then he gets a human form of life. The civilization is there. And five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So what this nonsense Darwin will tell us? Rascals. We have already information-jīva-jāti, they are already existing, one after another. (break) "...missing, fossil." What is this nonsense? What is missing? The monkeys, they, your father, is there, monkey. Where is monkey is missing? Your father, grandfather is there. So why you have got this body of all a sudden? Enjoy. You have to accept. You are changing body from monkey to man. So these so-called scientists, they are hovering for some false understanding.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are proper person to understand what is pervading(?). Monkey cannot understand what is pervading(?). (Bengali) Just like mother Sītā. When Hanumān approached, she gave her pearl necklace. He immediately remove it. So one who knows pearl and one does not know pearl. Anyway, it is all Kṛṣṇa's desire that you are combined together. So it is my duty to show you, "Here is the pearl." Now, to the few, value of pearl will be appreciated. All theories, bogus, vyapa, garbage(?)... At least you have got now basic principles to talk with high-grade scientists. Hm?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But I dared to approach them because I am confident that what I am presenting, it is solid. There is no mistake. It is solid. I never said, "May be, may not be." No. Life cannot come from matter. Never. And the knowledge distribution takes some time. They have distributed ignorance by taking time. We have to distribute knowledge by taking time. False knowledge... Simply promise, future hope... Durāśayā. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30).
Prabhupāda: And then it is exposed, "Moon Hoax." This is intellect... There was a... There were many films. One film was... What is that? A big monkey?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: King Kong.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) King Kong. They are producing chemical laboratory, yes, studio, and the monkey played...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they showed him going up and down the Empire State Building in a movie.
Prabhupāda: And it was so interesting, it gathered so many public to see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they have another one, "King Kong Returns." Still it's very popular.
Prabhupāda: So they can do these things.
Prabhupāda: For children one anna tiffin is sufficient. One anna. (looking at monkeys) You see?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, a whole family of them. This is their feeding place, the garbage can here. They don't come when they see people, though. Around all the holy places I always see a lot of monkeys and cows in India. Is there some reason, special, about... I mean, cows, there's obvious reason, but what about the monkeys? Why are they around the holy places?
Prabhupāda: Because they are fed by the visitors.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They like them. The visitors like the monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Here you'll find many of...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They like them. The visitors like the monkeys.
Prabhupāda: Here you'll find many of...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I remember in the Rādhā-Govinda Temple in Jaipur, oh, the monkeys, they lived there as regular citizens practically. And they're very friendly there. They come up and they hold their hand out.
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa was giving the monkeys. Monkeys were pet, not as enemy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa treated the monkeys as a pet?
Prabhupāda: Friends.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Friends.
Prabhupāda: He was giving butter. In the forest playing with them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imitating also.
Prabhupāda: Playing. If you give them to eat something, they become friendly.
Prabhupāda: Before, it is described, before human birth, monkey, either monkey or lion or cow. Sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Monkey's tamo-guṇa, cow is sattva-guṇa, and lion is rajo-guṇa. This is the last animal life before human life, gradually. Everything is described. Darwins want to take credit, (laughs) nonsense.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he could only see as deep as the body. He could not see it was the soul...
Prabhupāda: Hm. He was rascal speculator. He took the idea from the Vedic literature, and he wanted to take the credit himself, and the different hodgepodge theory, this is... Britishers took the idea from Vedic literature and presented in British way. Britisher wanted that "We are the monopolizers of all scientists, all big men." Sir Isaac Newton, then the, who is that, Darwin, big politicians, Gladstone, everything big-British. They wanted it. "British means all big men. Therefore we must rule over the world." All Lords, Sirs, and this and that... They wanted to prove, "The only big men of the universe, they take birth in England, and therefore we should rule over the world." (laughs) And this was their pledge.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tathā vinoda(?). I have done on reality. I want to establish reality, not imagination. What is the use of giving some imaginative idea, just like this rascal Darwin? Everything rascal. No practical value. And he has written volumes of books, and people are accepting: "From monkey, man has come. That's all." But monkey is there; man is there. Where monkey is extinct? The whole theory is absolutely bogus, and people have accepted it. I never believed that. Anthropo... Anthropomor... No? The...?
Upendra: Anthropomorphism.
Prabhupāda: And... What do you call, this science?
Śatadhanya: Anthropology.
Prabhupāda: So why family planning? Because they are rascal. Because in this lower species of life they have no planning. You'll find in the dogs, dozens of dogs, dozens of children. And... So there is no family planning. So how they are being raised? There are many animals. So family planning is different thing, but one thing is that these rascals are misguided. They do not know how to give them... In Bengal there is called śiva gotri bango(?). He was ordered to make a doll of Lord Śiva, and he made a monkey. You see? They are doing like that. They were to make Lord Śiva's doll, but they have a monkey because he does not know. Lokasya ajānataḥ vidvān cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje, lokasya ajānataḥ. The rascals do not know how to make things right. Therefore Vyāsadeva has written so nice literature. But they'll not consult. They'll not take Kṛṣṇa's advice, Vyāsadeva's advice, or our advice.
Prabhupāda: They'll manufacture. And instead of preparing doll of Śiva, they are making a doll of monkey. This is going on. And when the monkey is made, "Oh, we did not like this for..." Russia said that occasional revolution is required. Because the things which have been made, that is imperfect, therefore you require revolution. The things are being given, but if we take the perfect thing, it will be nice. These rascals will not take. This is the difficulty. So if Morarji Desai is in favor of... He's also recommending family planning. So that means he does not know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he has a big target of eight or ten million people.
Mr. Myer: In twenty years all people have experienced. Poor, poor children, we'll have to give them(?).
Prabhupāda: Why poor children? Bring hundred children, I shall maintain. (break) There are many fathers. They cannot maintain even one child, what to speak of four children.
Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in In... They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13)
Prabhupāda: There is a nice story, that a sage is giving different kinds of blessings to different types of persons. So to a king's son, a prince, he blessed him saying, rāja-putra ciraṁ jīva: "You are a king's son, a prince. You live forever." And muni-putra, the son of a saintly person, he blessed him, mā jīva mā jīva: "You don't live." Rāja-putra ciraṁ muni-putra mā jīva. And sādhu, devotees, he blessed him, jīva vā mara vā: "Either you live or you die, as you like." There was also a butcher, he blessed him, mā jīva mā mara: "You don't die, don't live." So these words are very significant. That I have already explained, still I continue to explain. A prince, he's enjoying the senses, that's all. He has got enough facility for sense enjoyment. So his next life is hellish. Because if you indulge in sex life, then Kṛṣṇa will give you facility to have sex life three times in an hour, just like the pigeons, the monkeys, the sparrows, they are sexually very strong. You have seen it. The facility is given. The princely order, they are after sense enjoyment. He's blessed that "Better you live forever, because after your death, you do not know what is going to happen to you. You are going to get a hellish life. Better you live for some time. Go on with your enjoyment." And muni-putra mā jīva. Brahmacārī, working under the guidance, under the strict disciplinary guidance, of a spiritual master, he is blessed, mā jīva, "You better die. Because you are so trained to enter into the kingdom of God, so why should you take so much trouble? Better you die and go back to Godhead." Ma jīva. And a devotee he blessed, jīva vā maro vā: "My dear devotee, either you live or die, the same thing." And the butcher, he blessed him, mā jīva mā mara: "You don't live, don't die."
| Page Title: | Monkey (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 08 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=176, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 176 |