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Mohammedan (Conversations 1967 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Just like the picture is, Advaita, say, his age is about forty years, and Haridāsa and Advaita, he was about more than fifty years old at that time when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born. They were quite old men. His father's age.

Hayagrīva: They're all devotees.

Prabhupāda: They're all devotees. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu was propagating His saṅkīrtana movement the brāhmaṇas, the orthodox brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "This is not according to Hindu śāstra. This is something new." But only these two gentlemen, they... Advaita happened to be the head of the brāhmaṇa community. So his support... And he was a well-to-do man, he was rich man, influential man. His support made Caitanya's movement successful in Nabadwip. He was a very influential man. And similarly, Śrīnivāsa, he was also, he belonged to the brāhmaṇa community. And Advaita gave shelter to Haridāsa. Haridāsa was a Muhammadan. So he was punished by the Muhammadan magistrate and he took shelter at the house of Advaita. He was maintaining him. You can make them appear in the scene. They were talking between Haridāsa and Śrīnivāsa and Advaita and all of them chanting and dancing, "Now our mission is fulfilled."

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: At Śrīnivāsa's house.

Hayagrīva: Are the people mainly young people like Himself?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they were all young.

Hayagrīva: Or are they older brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Older, only these...

Hayagrīva: Only the three, yes.

Prabhupāda: Haridāsa, Śrīnivāsa, and Advaita. They were taking part. Otherwise, all, they were young friends, yes. Young boys. No girls. That is not the system in India. (laughs) Yes. Now when the second scene, mainly their movement was going on and it was becoming popular. Now Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached that simply by the saṅkīrtana movement everything will be fulfilled. You need not do anything. So the priest class brāhmaṇas they became very much dissatisfied that "He is inviting Muhammadans and all others..." Because according to Hindu society, except the brāhmaṇas... Especially in those days, only the brāhmaṇas were considered the highest in the society, and even the kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, they all calculated to, in the group of śūdras. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was allowing everyone, the Muhammadans, the śūdras, the low class, the high class, the brāhmaṇas... He was amalgamating everyone. So these brāhmaṇas, they took objection. "He is making a disastrous movement! The prestige of the brāhmaṇas will go." So they became very much dissatisfied and they concluded that "We shall go to the magistrate and file our complaint that He is doing against Hindu religion and He's crying always 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa' loudly. The Lord is sleeping. He will be disturbed and there will be disaster, Lord being angry." In this way they filed complaint. Ask anything, questions.

Hayagrīva: Are there any of the characters listed up here among the brāhmaṇas who complained?

Prabhupāda: No. They complained... Characters... Ordinary brāhmaṇas.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Magistrate house and in the courtyard all the people, they were very much enthusiastic.

Hayagrīva: Several thousand.

Prabhupāda: Several thousand. And they were loudly chanting and meeting Lord... So when the chanting was going on the Chand Kazi appeared and there was discussion between... Chand Kazi was also very great scholar, and Lord Caitanya was also scholar. So Chand Kazi, just to pacify them, he addressed Caitanya, "My dear boy, You happen to be my nephew. You are my sister's son. Why You are so angry upon Your maternal uncle?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu got the clue that he was prepared to make compromise. So He also mildly replied, "Yes, you are My uncle, I know. So because you are My uncle, therefore I have come to your house. How is that when the nephew comes that you do not receive Him? In an angry mood you go upstairs?" So in this way, the situation was pacified. Then they sat together and there was a very learned discussion between the two. Because Hindus are always against cow killing. So he was Muhammadan. They were killing cow.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Chand Kazi.

Hayagrīva: Muhammadan.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Muhammadan. Chand Kazi was a... Maulana Chand Kazi. His name is Maulana Chand Kazi. He was a great scholar in the Koran scripture. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all asked the Chand Kazi, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are eating your mother and father?" (laughs) So he could understand that He was attacking the cow killing process. So he said, "Well, You are just trying to criticize our cow killing, but in Your Vedic literature also I have seen that cow killing is allowed in sacrifice." Then Lord Caitanya said, "Yes. That is not killing. That is rejuvenating. That is not killing." The sacrifice of cow recommended in the Vedic śāstra means that the brāhmaṇas prove how powerful was Vedic mantra that it could give a new life to the old cows and bulls. So then Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, that "Such kind of learned brāhmaṇas and Vedic yajña is not possible in this age. Therefore cow killing..." Not cow killing. "Sacrifice by offering cow, sacrifice by offering horse, and..." Aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ (CC Adi 17.164). And sannyāsaṁ pala paitṛkam. Sannyāsa means to become in the renounced order of life. And these five things. One thing is sacrifice by offering cow. Second, sacrifice by offering horse. Third, to accept renounced order of life. And fourth, offering ablutions... Or what is called? Offering some, something to the forefathers? What is called?

Hayagrīva: Oblations.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: This is Haridāsa Ṭhākura?

Prabhupāda: Haridāsa Ṭhākura.

Hayagrīva: At who's death? At Haridāsa's death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Haridāsa was very old man. He was Muhammadan.

Hayagrīva: He was the person that was thrown in the river.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hayagrīva: So he finally met his end here, in the fifth scene.

Prabhupāda: We are not meant for those... Of course, Haridāsa Ṭhākura has a separate life, but that we are not going to show.

Hayagrīva: Yes. All right. This particular incident.

Prabhupāda: Particular incident is significant, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was a brāhmaṇa and He was a sannyāsī. According to social custom He should not touch even a Muhammadan, but this Haridāsa Ṭhākura was a Muhammadan, and at his death He took the body Himself and danced, and He put him in the graveyard and distributed prasādam. And Haridāsa Ṭhākura for two, three days he was feeling not well. Because he was Muhammadan he did not enter the temple of Jagannātha temple. Because the Hindus were very strict. He was devotee, he never mind. Why he should create some row? So Caitanya Mahāprabhu appreciated his behavior that he did not want to create any... Because he has become devotee. Forcibly he was not going to the temple. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself was daily coming and seeing him. While going to take bath in the sea, He'll first of all see Haridāsa. "Haridāsa? What you are doing?" Haridāsa will offer his respect and He will sit and talk for some time. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will go to take His bath. In this way, one day when He came He saw Haridāsa not feeling very well. "Haridāsa? How is your health?" "Yes Sir, it is not very... After all, it is body." Then the third day He saw that Haridāsa is going to leave his body today. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Haridāsa, what do you desire?" Both of them could understand. Haridāsa said that "This is my last stage. If You kindly stand before me." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu stood before him and he left his body.

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: With kīrtana. Kīrtana is always there. And after burial there was distribution of prasādam and kīrtana. Haridāsa Ṭhākura. So here you have to show some talks with Haridāsa, how feelingly.

Hayagrīva: All right. Are there any other... Is there any other information about Haridāsa?

Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Your Grace, what is the basis of your teachings?

Prabhupāda: The basis of this teaching is Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. I have already published my book, this Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This book is not new. It is very old book, at least five thousand years old, and it is very widely read all over the world. In your country I have seen there are about more than twenty-five different editions, English. Similarly, there is in German language, in England, in Japan. Everywhere, all over the country this book is very widely known, Bhagavad-gītā. In other words, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The speaker of this book is Lord Kṛṣṇa, and the subject matter of this book is what is our relationship with God. Then, after understanding what is our relationship with God, we can work accordingly. Just like you are citizen of America, you have got a particular relationship with the state, and you are expected to work according to that relationship, and then you are good citizen, you are law-abiding citizen, and state gives your all protection, and you can improve to the highest perfectional stage. Similarly, if we know our relationship with God, whom we call Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive, and that is the perfect name of God. Unless God is all-attractive, he cannot be God. God cannot be Hindus' God or Christians' God or Jews' God or Mohammedans' God. No. God is for everyone, and He is all-attractive. He is fully opulent. He is fully in knowledge, perfect in knowledge, perfect in beauty, perfect in renunciation, perfect in fame, perfect in strength. In this way He is all attractive. So we must know our relationship with God. That is the first subject matter of this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then if we understand our relationship, we can act accordingly. At the present moment we are, some of us declining God. "There is no God." Some of them have little conception of God, "God is great," but they do not try to understand what is actual relationship with God. They are not very serious. In this way, practically we are avoiding our eternal relationship with God, and therefore we cannot act properly, and that is the cause of all miseries. That is the cause of all problems.

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Interviewer: Must one renounce his present religion?

Prabhupāda: No, not necessarily. Religion is a kind of faith. So naturally, if you go to the higher standard of life, the stereotype faith does not act there. So this understanding, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is transcendental to all religious faith. Faith you can change. But this you cannot change. Your constitutional position as part and parcel of God is never to be changed. You may accept a faith as Christianity or accept a faith, Mohammedanism. That is a mental situation. But this is your actual constitutional situation that you are part and parcel of the Supreme. That cannot be changed.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Where is Kṛṣṇa consciousness most common in the world, and how widespread is it in India?

Prabhupāda: In India Kṛṣṇa consciousness is cent percent spread. Every Indian, even if he is not Hindu, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is one professor in Allahabad University. He is Mohammedan by religion, but he is a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. On the birthday of Kṛṣṇa he would fast the whole day, and he would write one article to some paper. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is heart and soul of every Indian. One may differ, one may not agree, or there are so many different classes of men, but Kṛṣṇa is known cent percent in India.

Interview -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Interviewer: Is there conflict with other Eastern religions, and if so, how far is this spread?

Prabhupāda: There is no conflict at all. The conflict is between persons who are godless, who does not believe in God. Conflict is there. The conflict is not between East and West; the conflict is between the atheists and the theists. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not that we are trying to replace something by Indian method to Christian method or Jewish method. That is not our policy. This is... In one sense, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the post-graduate study of all religions. What is the method of religion? To accept the authority of God. That is the primary principle of every religion, may be Christian religion or Hindu religion or Mohammedan religion. It doesn't matter. But people are becoming godless. That is the problem. They are thinking that "There is no God. Nature is everything." That is their foolishness. They are unhappy for this godlessness. And as a result of this godlessness, the Communist party have sprang up, the hippies have sprang up and so many other things will gradually spring up. So there is no check. It is... The only check is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if people are taught that he can be happy only by reestablishing his eternal relationship with God. So our test of religion is how one has developed his God consciousness or love of God. We do not accept any principle of religion as genuine if we see that the followers have no love of God but they have got love of matter. We testify the, I mean to say, bona fides of a religious principle... Of course, in religious principle there is the teaching to become God conscious, to accept the authority of God, but because they are not properly taught, the followers are becoming godless, not only here, in India also. That is the position everywhere. So our proposition is to make people God conscious. It doesn't matter what he is. Either he is Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. And this Kṛṣṇa consciousness procedure is to raise or to develop love of Godhead. And as soon as he develops love of Godhead, then he becomes happy individually and collectively because there is love. He wants to love somebody else, but he is placing his love wrongly. He is placing his love... Even one has nobody to love, he is loving cats and dogs. So love is there, but he does not know where to place his love and be happy. This is the information, Kṛṣṇa.

Talk -- October 18, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: When you go to a medical man do you ask him whether he is Christian or Hindu? I am asking you. Suppose you go to a medical man, do you ask him, "Are you Christian or Muslim or Hindu?" Do you ask him?

Guest (1): Me?

Prabhupāda: No, I am asking this girl. Why? Because your business is to cure your disease. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or a Hindu or a Muhammadan. It doesn't matter. Similarly, you have to seek love of God. Wherever it is available, you have to take it. That should be the point of view. It doesn't matter where it is available. One should be hankering after love of Godhead. Love of God. Gold, somebody is after purchasing gold. It doesn't matter where it is available. Similarly, it doesn't matter whether you develop love of Godhead from this scripture or that scripture. Your aim should be whether you are developing love of Godhead or developing love of non-God. That should be the test.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Now can you explain to me, I have some background information about the Kṛṣṇa consciousness society, but I don't know how to explain it in relation to the broad word Hinduism. Now how do you relate the International Society for Krishna Consciousness to Hinduism? How would you describe it, as a part of Hinduism?

Prabhupāda: No. Hinduism practically we do not recognize because this word "Hinduism" is not mentioned in any Vedic literature. It is a foreign term. The Muhammadans, they called the inhabitants of India as "Hindus." From that word, it is has come to "Hinduism." Otherwise, we don't find that word in any Vedic literature. "Hinduism" is a foreign term, it is not a Vedic term.

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: Yes. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, its Vedic literature, they have some of the same books or also holy books for what we call Hindu religions, aren't they?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just try to understand, the inhabitants of India were called by the Muhammadans from Persia and other places, "Hindus." "Hindus" means the resident on the other side of the River Indus. You have heard the name of River Indus. So they cannot pronounce it Indus, they say "Hindus." From "Hindus," it has become "Hindu." So actually the residents of India were called "Hindus." And generally, at least in, say, three thousand years ago, all the inhabitants of India were strictly followers of Vedic principles. After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If we see that following a particular type of religious principle one is developing his love of Godhead, that is first-class religion. But if one is developing his love for demon or mammon then where is the religion?

Journalist: True.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) You see. That is our test. If you have developed... We don't say that you follow Christianism or Muhammadanism or Jewism or Hinduism—we don't say. Whether you are developing your love of Godhead. But they deny, "Oh, I am God. Who is God? I am God." You see? Everyone is taught nowadays that everyone is God. Just see how fun. Everyone is God. Do you think like that?

Journalist: You know from Meher Baba?

Prabhupāda: He is also another rascal. He is preaching this that everyone is God.

Journalist: He says he's God.

Prabhupāda: He's God. Just see. This is going on.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk Before Lecture -- January 20, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...ornament Kṛṣṇa, the more you become rich. The reflection, Kṛṣṇa being richly dressed, richly fed, it will be reflected on you. Kṛṣṇa is not in necessity, but we should dress Kṛṣṇa with the first quality ornaments. In India the Deities, They are given very, very valuable jewelry. The Mohammedans were attracted for these jewelries, and they came to India to plunder the temples to get the jewelries. Still, temples have millions of dollars of jewelries. Any such temple. In Jagannātha temple there is a valuable jewel. Just here, it is kept here, in a pocket. So Deity should be very nicely dressed. That is the temple worship. At the same time should be careful also. Chant.

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Marriage is allowed.

Prabhupāda: I say, "illicit sex." Without marriage, sex relation is forbidden.

Interviewer: I see. Would you say that there were times when, well, that there were marriages which were also illicit?

Prabhupāda: No. Of course, in civilized human society, either in India or in any other country, marriage is considered as sanctified, either in Hindu community or Christian community or Mohammedan community. But apart from that, for spiritual advancement, according to Vedic culture, sex indulgence is always restricted.

Interviewer: Always restricted. For purposes of procreation only?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Yes. Sex, sex intercourse, is recommended only for good children. That's all.

Radio Interview -- February 12, 1969, Los Angeles:

Interviewer: Well, would you say that, agree with those who say that in the people who have understood, in all the great schools of thought they have come to approximately, at least and sometimes almost, identical conclusions. The thinking of the great mystics in all religions have been in essential agreement.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that religion is a different thing. Religion is a kind of faith. You may have your faith in a certain type of procedure; I may have a certain type of procedure. That is different thing. Suppose you are now Christian. You may change your faith to Mohammedanism. But you as person, you do not change. Your faith may change. Similarly, we are concerned with consciousness.

Conversation Including Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.2.1-34 Recitation & Explanation -- April 1, 1969, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Through. Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam (SB 1.2.4). Yes.

Gargamuni: Oh, that's his master.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Naraṁ caiva narottamam devīṁ sarasvatīṁ. Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning. And Vyāsam, and then Vyāsadeva, who is the master of Vedic literature. One after another. This is... Vyāsaṁ tato jayaṁ udīrayet. Then he is... He was questioned by the audience that what is the most important religion in this age? That was their question. There are many types of religious principles. So what is the best one for this age? So he is replying that question. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṇgalam (SB 1.2.5). "You have put very nice question, because you have put the question that 'What is the best religion for the people of this age?' " Yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati. "And you have, you are very much anxious to understand the activities of Lord Kṛṣṇa. It is very nice. By this discussion everyone will become actually peaceful and satisfied." So the answer, "What is the best religious principle?" He is answering. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "My dear brāhmaṇas..." in that meeting all the audience were great learned sages and brāhmaṇas. So he is addressing them. That is the best form of religion which performing one becomes elevated to devotional service of the Lord. Not religious formalities. One has to test by the result. Phalena paricīyate. You are Christian, I am Hindu, or he is Mohammedan. That's all right. You are very good, I am very good, he is very good. But what is the result of your following religion? Have you attained love of God? Simply I go the church, I go to temple, and I do all kinds of nonsense, I have no love for God, I have love for my māyā and I go simply..., that is useless. Religious principle means... It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu or Christian or Muslim or anything. It doesn't matter.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said in the Bhagavad-gītā that "I am the father of everyone." Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Not only human being. All animals, trees, plants. So Kṛṣṇa is universal.

Allen Ginsberg: Now, for instance, in America many of the black people are tending toward Allah and toward Muhammadanism.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Somebody is inclined to some thing, somebody is inclined to some thing. That is going on, and it will go on till the end of the creation. (laughing)

Allen Ginsberg: Yuga.

Prabhupāda: But our process is that, you are searching after the center, here is the center. That is our proposal.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then do you think that the Hare Kṛṣṇa chant could serve as an intermediary to link the religious tendencies of, both of Christianity and Muslim religions?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Any religion. Any religion. If he's serious about religion. If he takes the religion as a scapegoat, that is different thing. If he wants to understand religion and if he takes seriously to religion, then he will understand. We want serious persons. Now, according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, religion means creation of the laws of God. Dharmaṁ tu sakṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Laws of God. Who will deny it? Who will deny it? Any religion, Christian, Muhammadan or any. Who can deny that religion is the laws of God? Simple explanation. If you ask what is meant by religion, religion is laws of God. That's all. And if you want to know what is God, that is also replied. "The original source of everything." So one should try to understand in this way. But if one wants to remain in his compact ideas and does not want to go further, then it is very difficult. He should be open-minded and appreciating. Then everything is all right. We say, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, it is not that you are necessarily to chant Kṛṣṇa, but if you have no suitable name, then chant Kṛṣṇa. Why do you make differentiate. Every name is the same.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Did He feel there were other suitable names? Did He feel or did He think that...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He said many thousand millions names there are. But if you are serious about God, then... You may have many names by your friends, but any name will do.

Allen Ginsberg: Okay. So the problem I was posing before is, which I leave open, I don't know. What is the most attractive and suitable name here in this material country?

Prabhupāda: Now, take for example the Muhammadan name Allah. Allah means the greatest. So God is greatest. So that greatest conception is this Brahman conception. And so far Christian, I don't think they have got any particular name. They say God.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 12, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: Pictures should not be made. Pictures should not be made. Because it would limit God to human conception.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is in Muhammadan. That means God is not material. That is the idea. Because here the idea is when I make something image or picture, that is material. So there is a prohibition of accepting God as material. But if you go to a higher stage, then you'll understand that if God is everything then there is no material. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. If God is everything, then where is material? He is spiritual. Material means when you cannot understand God. That is material. Everything is sky. When it is covered by cloud we call it is cloudy. Similarly, cloud has no existence. It comes only to cover sometimes, but the sky is eternal. Similarly, God is eternal. When you are covered by some māyā, you cannot see, you cannot understand God, that is material. So any philosophy which does not help understanding God, that is material. That is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Where is material if God is everything? Sarvam khalv idam brahma. You see?

Hayagrīva: All spirits.

Prabhupāda: All spirit. All the sky. Everywhere is sky, but when it's covered it is called cloud. Similarly when God is covered by some nonsense ideas, then it is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Therefore those who are too much absorbed in materialistic way, there is a restriction but don't attempt. Because he will be to think that God's name is just like my son's name my daughter's name. Therefore that restriction.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Allen Ginsberg: So only those who practice Kṛṣṇa chanting can attain mokṣa.

Prabhupāda: They become immediately liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Allen Ginsberg: And everybody else gets involved deeper and deeper in the yuga.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. So if anyone believes in the śāstras, they should take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is intelligence, to take advantage of authorized scriptures. You'll find in the Bhāgavata, There is a history of Candragupta, and "The Yavanas will become kings." That means English occupation, Mohammedan occupation. Everything is there. And Buddha's appearance, kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Kikaṭeṣu means in the Bihar province in India. Bhaviṣyati. Because Bhāgavata Purāṇa was written five thousand years ago, and Lord Buddha appeared about 2,600 years ago. So therefore it is stated, bhaviṣyati: "In future, just in the beginning of Kali-yuga, Lord will appear as Buddha. His mother's name will be Añjana, and his business will be to cheat the atheists."

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They will pay nice money to hear us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (reading letter:) "This can be made extensive by your team of followers from America arriving in..." They are greater. So Indian and American combined kīrtana, oh, it will be very nice. Big kīrtana, and every city will receive. And we shall preach that "Here is the common platform for everyone. There is no distinction of nation or religion or anything. Come to the platform." So the Mohammedans also will join. The government will appreciate that here is something secular, real secular; at the same time, God is there. Actually, it is that. All religious people, so-called religious, come here. And religion means this, to love, I mean to say, develop love of God. That is religion. What is this formularies? Simply formula that "I keep this, I copy that." That is not religion, simply by dressing in different way or sitting in a different way. Where is your understanding? You have no understanding of God. You simply formally attend some church or mosque or temple for some material benefit or for some, make some show, but where is your love of God? That is the test of religion, Bhāgavata says. A religious person means he has got complete love of God. Then he is religious. All right. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He said, "No, nephew must be obedient to the uncle. But do you think that uncle, when a nephew comes to his house, will not receive him?" "Oh yes. You are welcome. You are my nephew. You are my son." In this way the past incidences forgotten. Then they sat down. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "My dear uncle, what is your religion that you are killing father and mother?" "Why killing father and mother?" "Oh, you are killing cow, your mother. You are drinking milk. And oxen, he produces grains for you in the field; so he is your father. The father earns for the children, so he is producing grains. And mother gives milk; so cow is giving milk. So how is your religion that the father mother killing?" Then he could understand that Caitanya is marking on the cow killing by the Mohammedans. Then he said, "Oh, this cow killing is also in your Hindu religion." Then He said, "How is that, Hindu religion cow killing?" "Oh, there is cow sacrifice." Then He said that cow sacrifice is not like this. Cow sacrifice is giving new life to the old cow. That is cow sacrifi... It is not killing. And because at the present moment the brāhmaṇas are not so qualified that they can give new life, therefore that sacrifice is now forbidden. He cited some verses from Vedic literature that cow sacrifice and horse sacrifice and to beget children by the younger brother of husband and sannyāsa, and offering oblations with meat, these things are forbidden. So that is past. This is... Now it has no significance. In this way, both of them were scholars. Then they compromised. Agreement was the Kazi gave order everyone of his descendants, that "Nobody will check this saṅkīrtana movement." So that order is being carried by their descendants still there in Nabadwip. The Kazi has got his tomb. He was a very big man.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...first speak in detail about Ṭhākura Haridāsa's disappearance. So tell me maybe how you want it to be performed.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ṭhākura Haridāsa was living in a cottage which was... Just like I am living here, and the garage site a little far off, Haridāsa was living a little distance. So when Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to go to the sea for taking bath, He every day, every morning He used to go to Haridāsa Ṭhākura and taking his informa..., "Haridāsa, what you are doing?" Because Haridāsa was Mohammedan by birth, so out of his meekness he did not go to the temple. But in those... Especially in those days they were very strict. They do not allow anyone except Hindus to enter the temple. Nowadays, of course, there is law. If somebody is, actually has come to the Hindu way of life, he's allowed. Our Jayagovinda and others were allowed to see Jagannātha temple. But in those days there were no such system and Haridāsa out of his own accord, he did not want to disturb But Lord Caitanya, God Himself, used to come to see him every day. So one day when Caitanya came, he looked little bit depressed. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him, "Haridāsa, you do not look very well today. What is the matter?" "Sir, I'm not very feeling well. And because I do not feel well, I could not finished my chanting." He was chanting daily 300,000 times. "So I could not finish my chanting." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "All right. You are growing old. You may not follow the rules now strictly. You can make it later." Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "No, Sir, so long my life is there I shall try to follow. When the life is over, that is different thing. But I have got one desire if You fulfill." "What is that?" "Now I can understand that You will also leave this world very soon. So I cannot tolerate that. So best thing is that before You'll go, I go. And my another request is that You shall stand before me, and I shall leave this body." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "Oh, if that is your desire, that will be all right. That is not difficult." So next day, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu came, Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "Sir, today I wish to leave. So You please stand before me." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu also could understand that he's leaving. So He asked His devotees to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and in the presence of Caitanya Mahāprabhu he left.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: In this material world we make friendship. It breaks. Or the friend lives somewhere, and I live somewhere. But He's so nice friend that He's living within, with me and within my heart. He is so nice friend. Sarva-bhūtānāṁ. He's not only selected friend. No. Even the most insignificant creature, he is living there. Paramātmā. So if these three things are understood clearly, then he becomes peaceful. This is the peace formula. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literature. Simply one has to learn. Just like in arithmetic. There is all mathematical calculation, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, this or that, fraction. One has to learn. So Bhagavad-gītā is so nice book and it is accepted. Not that because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are advocating for Bhagavad... No. It is accepted by scholarly section, religious section, not only in India, but all over the world. Perhaps you know. In every country there are thousands of Bhagavad-gītā translation, in every language, in English, in French, in German, all languages. And even Mohammedans... Of course, scholarly Mohammedans, they also read very nicely Bhagavad-gītā. I know one Mohammedan professor in India. He was a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. He did not disclose that he was a devotee, but he was observing Janmāṣṭamī fasting day and he was writing one article on Kṛṣṇa every Janmāṣṭamī day. There are many. They read. And in our childhood... Not childhood, we were young man at that time. So one Englishman was a tenant in Calcutta, my friend's house. So he was vacating the house. We went to take possession of that house, and he had many books, and there was a book, Bhagavad-gītā. So that, my friend, Mr. Mullick, he was a little astonished that "He is Englishman, he's Christian. How is that, he has got Bhagavad-gītā?" So he was touching that book, and that gentleman thought that "He is my landlord. He may like that book." So he immediately said, "Oh, Mr. Mullick, I cannot present that book to you. This is my life and soul." He said like that. So Bhagavad-gītā is accepted by scholarly section, by philosophers.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is upādhi. (Hindi) I identify myself as Hindu, yes. Then they would not have accepted. They would have said, "We have got Christianity. Why should I accept your Hinduism?" (Hindi)

Guest (9): This sort of distinction was not clear to us, but now, after hearing you this morning...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (9): ...and your ceremony...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, if you go anywhere, if you want to preach Hinduism, why they should be interested in Hinduism? They can hear some words. But we are not talking of Hinduism and Mohammedanism; we are talking on the science of God.

Guest (9): The true philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is God? What is the conception of God? Oh, they have accepted, therefore: "Yes, here it is right conception." Yes.

Guest (9): Go back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Back to Godhead.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Muhammad, he also did not believe in the Vedic literature. But according to Vedic literature, anyone who does not believe in the Vedic literature, he is nāstika. Just like the Mohammedans, they say, "Anyone who does not believe in Koran, he is kafir." The Christians say, "Anyone who does not believe in the Bible, they are heathens." That is there everywhere. Similarly, Lord Caitanya said that veda na manīyā bauddha haila nāstika. He is giving the definition because we have to follow the great personalities, great ācāryas. That is our process. We do not make any research, or we do not make any statement made by us. We simply accept the injunctions given by great ācāryas. Ācāryopāsanam. That is the process of Vedic system. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). One must approach a spiritual master and learn from him. So whatever spiritual master says, that is accepted. Sādhu guru śāstra vākya. Real evidence is, it must be stated in the scriptures, it must be explained by the spiritual master or saintly persons. That is evidence.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: According to their... Brāhmaṇa, first-class because his intelligence is first-class. Kṣatriya, his intelligence is second-class. Vaiśya, his intelligence is third-class. And śūdra means fourth-class. And less than śūdra, they are called pañcama, caṇḍāla. They are accepted as animals, those who are less than śūdras. This is the Vedic system. Now, here it is said that this Ajamila, dvija... Dvija means he was properly initiated, second birth. First birth by father, mother, is śūdra. Anyone, even if he is born in a brāhmaṇa family, the natural birth is considered as śūdra. But if there is garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, then he's accepted as born brāhmaṇa, born brāhmaṇa. Still, one is born brāhmaṇa, he has to undergo the saṁskāras. So our, this... Now it is known as Hindu society although the "Hindu" word is given by the Mohammedans. It is called sanātana-dharma or varṇāśrama society, who very strictly follow the four divisions, social divisions of varṇa—brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra—and four divisions of spiritual life—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So our, the Vedic system is called varṇāśrama. Varṇa means the social order. Āśrama means spiritual division. Therefore those who are following strictly the Vedic principle, that family life is called gṛhastha āśrama. Āśrama. Whenever you add this word āśrama there is spiritual significance. So all the division-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa—they are known as āśrama. Anyone can understand āśrama. As soon as there is āśrama that means "Here some men, saintly persons, spiritually advanced persons, lives." That is āśrama.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Tiṣṭhāmi. That's it. Therefore a devotee's position is sublime. Kṛṣṇa comes as a devotee also. Actually this happened. Haridāsa Ṭhākura, he happened to be a Mohammedan, Lord Caitanya's devotee. So in those days, five hundred years ago, there was some Hindu-Muslim... Still that is going on. So he did not enter Jagannātha temple to create some disturbance. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also did not ask him that "You go to Jagannātha temple. Who can check you?" Of course, if Caitanya Mahāprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting. So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridāsa Ṭhākura going to Jagannātha, Jagannātha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily. It was Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... And when Haridāsa Ṭhākura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra and he performed the funeral ceremony. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was so... And he was given the title nāmācārya, "authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gītā says, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatām api siddhānāṁ: (BG 7.3) "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Kṛṣṇa."

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord Kṛṣṇa is lord, universe.

Guest (1): Universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): So that is what you want to talk with me.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): In that case, you will have to satisfy everybody.

Prabhupāda: I am satisfying everybody. I am preaching that. But it is not possible... I am preaching in Europe. Christians, Mohammedans, Jews, they are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. So I am doing my duty.

Guest (1): If I would be permitted, I would very humbly submit that...

Prabhupāda: You may not. You have not to surrender, you may bring some argument, but where I am preaching, they are surrendering.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: ...religion, Indian, a way of philosophy, a way of life, a religion, everything...

Prabhupāda: No, this Hinduism, Hindu, this word, is not a Sanskrit word. It is given by the Mohammedans. You know there is a river, Indus, which is..., Sanskrit name is Sindhu. Sindhu.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: These Mohammedans, they pronounce "S" as "H." "Hindus," "Hindus." Instead of "Sindus," they made it "Hindus." So Hindu is a term which is not found in the Sanskrit dictionary.

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But it has come into use. Real, I mean to say, cultural institution is called varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatri, vaiśya, śūdra—these four varṇas—and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So according to Vedic concept of life, unless people take to this system or institution, institute of varṇa and āśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas, actually he does not become a civilized human being. This... One has to take this process, four divisions of varṇas and four..., four divisions of social order and four divisions of spiritual order. That is called varṇāśrama. So India's culture is based on these four, eight system, varṇa and āśrama.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Our predecessor ācārya, Rūpa Gosvāmī, he was finance minister in the Mohammedan government. He was. When he resigned, the Nawab was not very satisfied, that "I cannot relieve you because you are my right hand man. If you resign all of a sudden in this way, then I shall arrest you." There is a long history. So that's a fact. The brāhmaṇas were kept. So the advisory committee of the king... Now, as I was going to speak, Candragupta, Candragupta, just the lastest Hindu king, Candragupta... Candragupta is the age of Alexander the Great because at that time, during Candragupta's..., little before Candragupta, Alexander the Great from Greece, they went to India and conquered some portion. So this Candragupta, when he became emperor, he had his prime minister, Canakya. Perhaps you heard this name, Canak... Ca-na-kya.

Prof. Kotovsky: Canakya. Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was a great politician, brāhmaṇa. And under whose name in New Delhi all the foreign embassies, they are flocked together. Yes. It is called Canakya Purī.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, I agree with you that this was addition of late brāhmaṇas who tried to...

Prabhupāda: No, that, that has killed the Indian culture. You see? Otherwise there was no necessity of division of this Pakistan. Not only that, from history, perhaps you know, this whole planet was Bhāratavarṣa, and it was controlled by one flag up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Gradually they separated, separated. This is the history. And late, lately they have separated Pakistan. So Bhāratavarṣa is now crippled into a small piece of land. Otherwise this whole... According to our scripture, Vedic scripture, this, this whole planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was named Ilāvṛtavarṣa, but since the Emperor Bhārata ruled over this planet, it is called Bhāratavarṣa from Mahārāja Bhārata. So this culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, Vedic culture, were existing... Now any religion you take, Christian religion, Mohammedan religion or Buddhist religion, they are, utmost, two thousand, three thousand old, years old. But this Vedic scripture, you cannot trace out where is the beginning, where is the beginning. It is therefore called sanātana, eternal. And this culture is for the whole human society. It is not a departmental religious faith. Religious faith you can change, but real dharma you cannot change. Just like... You try to understand.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Many millions of Vaiṣṇavas and... Just like this gentleman. He is a commander of the Air, India Air Lines. So he's not my disciple, but he's a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, in India millions and trillions there are, Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. And practically there is not a single... Even there are Mohammedan Kṛṣṇa conscious. In Allahabad University there is a Mohammedan professor. He's a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So this is natural. It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened only by this process. That's all. It is there in your heart also. It is not that it is foreign to you. It is not that. Everyone's heart, there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By this process we have to awaken that. Śravaṇādi śuddha citte karaye udaya. Udaya. You know this word udaya. Just like sun rises. It is not that sun all of a sudden comes from somewhere. It is there, but it rises in the morning. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, but some way or other, it is now covered. By this process it is awakened and aroused, by association.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Now one thing... The other day I was speaking to some... Where I was? In Bombay, I think, I was speaking some respectable gentlemen that "Kṛṣṇa says:

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya
ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ
striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās
te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim
(BG 9.32)

Kṛṣṇa says, 'Even those who are low-born, pāpa-yoni—the striya, vaiśya and śūdra, they are also included—but by accepting Me, accepting my shelter, they are also elevated to the transcendental position.' Now, why the higher class of Hindu society, they neglected this injunction of Bhagavad-gītā? Suppose one is pāpa-yoni. Kṛṣṇa says that 'They can be elevated to the transcendental position if they accept Me.' Why this propaganda was not done by the higher class people so that the so-called pāpa-yoni could be elevated? Why you rejected them? The result was that the Mohammedans... Instead of accepting them, you rejected them, and they have partitioned, and they have gone away, and they have become eternal enemy of India." You see? So this is the first time that we are trying to elevate to the highest position of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even one is in the pāpa-yoni. It doesn't matter because soul is pure. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. The Vedas says, "The soul is untouched by any material contamination." Simply, temporarily, he is covered. This covering should be opened. Then he becomes pure. That is the mission of human life, to uncover ourselves from this material envelopment and come to the spiritual understanding, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Life is perfect.

Room Conversation -- July 18, 1971, Detroit:

Mohsin Hassan: What is the goal of this movement for the future? Is there any program set for the future?

Prabhupāda: Because it is genuine movement, it will make progress, provided it is presented in pure form. It was not presented before me in pure form, at least in the Western countries. Therefore people could not take it, nor they could understand it. Now it is being placed in pure form in the right way of paramparā system as the ācāryas introduced, and actually it is happening. It is..., they are taking. Wherever they are going, people are very much anxious to take this philosophy, as if they are waking. Anywhere we go, even we have sent men to Jerusalem (?). (aside:) What town? (indistinct) So this method is very effective, and people are accepting, any part of the world, without any discrimination. Here mostly you see our students are from the Christian group, the Jewish group, there are many students from Muhammadan group, from Parsi group.

Mohsin Hassan: Now this movement must have structure. Will you please tell us about the structure of the (indistinct) from the hierarchy on the top, and all the way down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is, this movement is started from Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some thousands of years. But so far our Indian history goes, we had two wars only, big wars. One war was Rāvaṇa and Rāma, another was between the Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas after many millions of years passed.

Dr. Singh: There's only two recorded wars.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. It was recorded. That fighting is going on even in the family. We see between husband and wife also there is sometimes fighting. That is not taken into account. But the major wars in the history of the world... Because India, or Bhāratavarṣa, means the whole world. Now it is cut into pieces. Just like twenty years ago, Pakistan is cut. This planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. Formerly it was known as Ilāvṛtavarṣa. Later on, after the ruling of Mahārāja Bharata... You know Mahārāja Bharata. After his name, this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. And up to the Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, there was one ruling all over the world. One king in this (indistinct). Then gradually... Why? The culture was lost. The Vedic culture was lost. Up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the Vedic culture was kept intact. Just like Mahārāja Parīkṣit, while he was going on tour of the Western countries, he saw one black man was trying to kill one cow. He immediately took his sword, ""Who are you? You are killing cow in my kingdom?" So that culture we have lost. Immediately he began, "With this sword I shall kill you."

So king should give protection to all living entities. That is king's duty, state's duty. Everyone should have living right. Why the animals should be killed? They are also prajā. Is it not duty of the king to give protection? And that was being done up to the Mahārāja Parīkṣit. Therefore, there was one kingdom. When they deteriorated, gradually part, part, part. Just like what is this Pakistan problem? These Pakistani Muhammadans, they do not come from Muhammadan country. They are our men, Hindus converted. But we could not keep the culture.

Room Conversation with Dr. Karan Singh, -- November 25, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. "Even one is born in pāpa-yoni, he can come to Me." That is now the duty of those who are elevated as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, to keep the standard. Even one is born in pāpa-yoni, he should be educated to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. But that we did not do. We simply hated. When, during Muhammadan period, if the Muhammadan will take some water from the (indistinct) and put in this way, sprinkle over, "Oh, he has become Muhammadan." This has been done. These are stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Now whatever is done is done. Now if you want to unite the whole world again under one banner, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the only...

Dr. Singh: Should we want to unite the world, or should be want to unite ourselves with Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Singh: Should we not rather want to unite ourselves with Kṛṣṇa rather than to unite the world?

Prabhupāda: Well, unless you are united with Kṛṣṇa, how you can teach the world to become united?

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 14, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. There is difference. That one should understand. There is difference. A man should not live like cats and dogs, because he has got a mission.

John Fahey: Mission?

Prabhupāda: Mission. That mission is God realization. Cats and dogs cannot do it; human beings can do it. Therefore in any civilized human society, there is a type of religion. May be Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist—there is religion. But you cannot find this religious system in the animal kingdom of life. That is the difference. If we give up this religious consciousness or God consciousness, then we are as good as cats and dogs. That is the only difference. You go anywhere, any part of the world, and civilized human beings, they have got a system, which you may call religion or philosophy, to understand God. That prerogative is especially for the human beings. But if you do not care for that special prerogative, then you are as good as animal. What is the difference between animal and human being unless he has got some method of understanding God? The animal eats and we also eat. The animals sleep; we also sleep. The animals have sexual intercourse; we have got also. They are also afraid of something; we are also afraid of something. Then what is the difference?

John Fahey: They cannot understand God(?).

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. A human being can understand what is God, what is my relationship with God, what is my duty in that relationship, what is my aim of life, where I shall go after death, wherefrom I have come. These questions must be there in human form of life; otherwise we are still in the animal kingdom.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1972, San Diego:

Prabhupāda: But Hebrew... Hebrew, Indian, there are... The aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money. Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the... The same example. Either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money. Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We... Unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace. That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If your aim is... Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money it doesn't matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, it doesn't matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything.

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: Because I may require in the.... So, we don't want to enter into arguments, but we must know, but if somebody comes to argument, we have to say. What can be done? We say that "You follow Christianity in perfect order, you'll be benefited." That we say. Our test is whether you're advancing in God consciousness. That is our test. You follow Christianity or Muhammadanism, anything you follow, we don't mind. Whether you are developing your God consciousness, love for God, that is our test. But if your process has failed, then you can try this. And you'll see, in our process within so short time, how they are becoming God conscious. You have to admit. And they admit also.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee: Actually, they have arranged by giving a letter, that we can stay in the country. They simply say, "We do not object," and then the immigration gives us a good visa. They especially like your books.

Prabhupāda: Oh, thank you. You have read some of my books?

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: They are not my books. I am simply translating. They are written by Vyāsadeva, the original Vedic scholar. So there are now many secular states. Our Vedic idea of secular state is the government must be responsible of proper execution of religious system. It doesn't matter whether one is Hindu or one is Christian, one is Mohammedan or Buddhist. It doesn't matter. But it is a government duty to see that one who is professing as Hindu whether he's executing the Hindu principles of religion properly. That is government. Just like government gives license to so many businesses. One man is selling liquor, wine, government issues license. So the government inspector, excise inspector, goes and sees that the man is doing business according to the license. Government should not be callous that "You may go on with your so-called religion, we don't care for it." No. That is not government. Government's duty is to see, just like for example, Christians, their commandment, first commandment is, "Thou shalt not kill." It is the government's duty to see that anyone who is professing Christian, "Why he's killing?" Immediately he should be punished that "You are professing as Christian and you are killing." This is government.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: Are there Christian also, or Muslim also joining this...

Prabhupāda: What's this? Can't you see? There are many Christians, many...

Scholar: Do they have to be Hindus first?

Prabhupāda: Well, why you are stressing to become Hindu and Christian? It is that education for understanding the values of life.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Any intelligent man will take it. Suppose if you want to be a great mathematician does it mean that you must be a Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan?

Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion...

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama. So unless the human being follows this varṇāśrama principle he's not a human being. He's animal, because animal has no varṇa, no āśrama. The human society must be divided. Then, just like in this body there are four divisions—the head division, the arms division, the belly division, and the leg division—all these are required for complete body. Although, by comparative study, head is the most important department, but still the leg is not... that we don't require leg. Leg is also required. Similarly, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they're required to function the society perfectly. That is varṇa. And similarly, for spiritual emancipation there must be the division: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. So unless you accept this institution perfectly you cannot develop your consciousness as perfect human being.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Scholar: Mohammedans also accept this divisions?

Scholar: Yes. They're accepting. If you don't accept any scientific truth that is your business. That is your business. If you say-two plus two equal to four—"No I don't accept." That is your business. But two plus two equal to four, that is a fact everywhere. Now how these boys have accepted? Now they have got sacred thread, they have become brāhmaṇa.

Scholar: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they're acting actually as brāhmaṇa. There are many Mohammedans also. You came from Mohammedan. So it is the process of presenting the perfect educational system. Then everyone will accept. Any intelligent man will accept. It is a science. So you have to push this scientific movement throughout the whole world. That is our program. It is not a so-called Hindu cult or a Indian cult. No. It is science to be accepted by everyone if he at all wants to, I mean to say, purify or make his life perfect. Otherwise, he's in darkness. He does not know what he's going to accept another body. He has to accept another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). It does not say that this kind of body, dehāntaram, another body. Not..., it is up to you to select what kind of body I am going to accept. I am going to become a cat or dog or a demigod or a big man or a... They do not know yet. This science is unknown to the whole world. We are trying to push on this scientific movement. This is our position. So if you want to cooperate with this scientific movement, then we are prepared. But if you have some other idea, that is different thing. But if we take it seriously as a scientific movement, then we are prepared to cooperate. And if (you) should do, simply formality will not help us.

Room Conversation -- February 28, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: You stayed in India for two years?

Guest (1): Yes, sir.

Guest (2): One year, one year in Pakistan, Lahore.

Guest (1): (indistinct) and only summer time evacuated because Lahore is north of it, Kashmir side. (indistinct) north.

Prabhupāda:Sir, you are by religion Mohammedan?

Guest (1): Pardon?

Prabhupāda: By religion?

Guest (1): No. But I study Shintoism in Japan. (indistinct) This is the base of culture, Japanese culture (indistinct) the western modern civilization based on Descartes (indistinct) many gods and goddess...

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: These are all oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. That we get from history, Mahābhārata. This planet name is Bhārata-varṣa.

Devotee (2): After King Parīkṣit, then it divided up, that soon after?

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different kinds of religion because... Just like at the present moment Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion. So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the (indistinct). They wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Mohammedans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the..., what are these Mohammedans? The Mohammedans, they are lower class men, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it. But when the Mohammedans, that we will be on equal right, they, there is a (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Later on it became political, because as soon as the spiritual power, culture become diminished, the whole thing became material. So people wanted material advantage, so separated from Vedic culture. Just like Buddhists. Buddhism was a Hindu culture. But Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal sacrifice. In the Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended under certain conditions. He even denied that, "No that also cannot be done." So therefore they are separate from Vedic culture. After all these, all these religious systems-Mohammedanism, Jewism, then Christianism, Buddhism—they are at a stage not more than 2,000 years. And before 2,000 years, what was the culture?

Devotee (1): The Christians here, get money from America. In Bali, where there's many Hindus live, they convert many people by saying, "If you become a Christian, you'll have good economy with us."

Prabhupāda: And that is the Christian propaganda.

Conversation with Mr. Wadell -- July 10, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like if you pour water on the root of the tree, automatically the branches, the trees, everything, watered. Prāṇopahārāc ca yatendriyāṇām. If you supply food to the stomach, the energy is distributed to the hands, legs, eyes, and everywhere. This is the process. But if you take the food and separately push on in the eyes and the ears and the hands and the fingers it is useless.

Mr. Wadell: Oh yes, I agree, but...

Prabhupāda: Similarly, if you try to pour water to each leaf of the tree, it will be simply waste of time. Similarly, God is the root of everything. Our Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), Absolute Truth, wherefrom everything has come. So if we love the root, God, then we can love others. Otherwise not possible. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. They have tried. The so-called humanitarian work they have tried. Unity and fraternity and so on, big, big words. But it has not come to... Because there is no love of Godhead, it has failed. Even the United Nations. Central point is missing. So our Vedic injunction is that sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: (SB 1.2.6) "That system of religion is perfect which teaches how to love God." It doesn't matter, Christian religion, Hindu religion, Mohammedan religion, it doesn't matter. But God minus, this is the present position. Everyone wants to make minus God everything. This is going on. They have no clear idea. If I want to love you, I must have a clear idea of you. On vague idea, I cannot love. But they have no clear idea what is God. So how they can love God? And because they have failed to love God, all the so-called love, humanitarian, philanthropic works and, you know, they have become useless.

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: You have seen all our books.

Father Tanner: I have got several of your books.

Prabhupāda: I see. Thank you. So we are approaching people to become God conscious. That's all. (Aside:) Get the light on. And in the Bhāgavata it is stated, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class religion which teaches people how to love God. That is first-class religion. It doesn't matter whether it is Hindu religion or Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, if it teaches the followers how to love God, then it is first-class.

Father Tanner: I think I'm almost only teaching them to love one another.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. One another, that is going on in so many ways. You see? That has never become successful. Neither it will become successful. That is a fact. Because here the atmosphere is so surcharged with material ideas that even if I want to love you, you may not like it. That is the position here. So you cannot be successful to teach people to love one another. That will never be successful. That has never been successful. But if you can teach people how to love God...

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So actually in India the meat-eaters were always, but there was no slaughterhouse. The meat-eaters, they were allowed that "You can sacrifice one goat before the goddess Kālī and eat it." That means once in a month, restriction. And individual person... But no slaughterhouse. What is this nonsense, slaughterhouse? Big, big slaughterhouse. Trade with slaughterhouse. This is the... Even, even in India during Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse. Individual, if he liked, he can kill one animal and eat. No slaughterhouse.

Room Conversation with Sir Alistair Hardy -- July 21, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No... When we speak of Veda, Veda means knowledge. So knowledge means knowledge of God. Any scripture that gives knowledge of God, that is Vedas. Don't think that Vedas means that only the Sāma, Yajuḥ, Atharva. Those who are following the principles to give knowledge about God, that is Veda. Veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu is called veda, vetti. Jñāne when there is question of knowledge, these three forms are used: vetti, veda, vido, jñāne. Vinte vid vicaraṇe vidyate vid saptāyāṁ labhe vindati vindate. (?) This is the vid-dhātu description. So vid-dhātu means to know. So ultimate knowledge is to know God. That is real knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvaiḥ. Sarvaiḥ, all kinds of Vedas. All kinds, sarvaiḥ. So Bible can be taken as Vedas because it is trying to give knowledge about God, maybe for a certain class of men. That is another thing. But the subject matter is how to know God. So that can be taken as also, as Vedas. Because ultimate knowledge is how to know God. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So we accept Bible also as Vedas, but we simply say that they misinterpret the Biblical commandments. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill," and the Christian people are killing, maintaining slaughterhouse. What is this? This is my question. How they'll understand God if they are so much implicated in sinful activities? According to Vedas, there are four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, unnecessary killing of animals, intoxication and gambling. Yatra pāpaś catur-vidhaḥ. So God is purest. Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). How one can approach God if he leads a sinful life? That is our propagation. You give up this sinful life. Then you'll be able to understand God. You follow Christianity or Mohammedanism or Buddhism. It doesn't matter. You give up this sinful life.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: There was one famous politician from India five hundred years ago, or...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. About three thousand years ago.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, three thousand years ago.

Lord Brockway: Three thousand years ago!

Śyāmasundara: He's written a book of...

Prabhupāda: During the time of Candragupta. Before Mohammedan or British rule. Long ago.

Śyāmasundara: He wrote a book of political wisdom, how to run on the state.

Prabhupāda: According to his opinion, viśvāso naiva... (someone knocks on the door) Yes? Come on. Viśvāso naiva kartavyaḥ strīṣu rāja-kuleṣu ca. He's giving warning that "Never trust woman and politician." (laughs)

Lord Brockway: A great deal of truth in that. (laughter) Well, Your Divine Grace, I must be going.

Prabhupāda: All right. Thank you for your coming here.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So to understand God or how to love God, there is religious system. In every civilized human society, it doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Mohammedanism or Buddhism, the aim, religious system is there in human society besides the education of eating, sleeping, mating and defending. That is there in the animal society. So a human being is distinct from the animal when he has education how to understand God and how to love Him. That is perfection.

Mother: Well, you've got a good tape there now, haven't you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Mother: You've got a good tape there now. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So that is now wanting. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not depriving people of their education. You get education how to eat, how to sleep, and that's all right. But side by side, you take education how to know God and how to love Him. That is our proposition.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: In this way. So we invite anyone, everyone, without any distinction, without any discrimination. He may be Christian, he may be Hindu, he may be Mohammedan. "Come on. Live with us, and learn how to love." That is our mission. We say, according to our Vedic description,

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo
yato bhaktir adhokṣaje
ahaituky apratihatā
yayātmā suprasīdati
(SB 1.2.6)

If you actually want peace of your mind, then you must try, you must learn how to love God. So our preaching is... It doesn't matter, whatever religion you are following, it doesn't matter. If you have achieved this aim, how to love God, then your system is first-class. That's all. That is our question. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Bhakti, means love of God. How much you have learned to love God, that much we want to know. We don't say that "You are Christian, you become followers of Hindu rituals or Mohammedan rituals." No. You remain in your position, but just try to love God to the best of your capacity.

Room Conversation with British Man -- August 31, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: From practical life, just like world's principal religion, Christianism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Mohammedanism also, the principle of not killing is there, every religion. Buddhism, they're completely for not killing. No circumstances, at any circumstances killing is not allowed. Similarly, in Vedic religion, killing is not allowed, but at circumstances, it is allowed. Similarly Christianity, they also say, "Thou shall not kill." Mohammedans also, they allow killing, but circumstantially. So the principle of killing is forbidden every religion, every religion. So the principle of religion is one. Take for example, in every religion there is acceptance of God and religion means to abide by the order of God. So how there can be two religions? There cannot be two religions. "I believe like that, we believe like that." These are man-made. But actual religion is that God is one and religion means the orders, the law given by God. That's all. Simple definition. Just like state is one, government is one, and to become good citizen means to abide by the laws of the government. That's all. Those, one who is abiding by the laws of God, he is perfect religionist. It doesn't matter whether he's a Hindu, he's a Muslim or a Christian. Whether he has got proper sense what is meant by God and what is the order of God. Then he is religionist, perfect religionist.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Practice. That will act, that will act, that will act.

Guest (1): So this was my question about how, he was not acting, but...,

Prabhupāda: No. He did not know. But because he was chanting raghupati rāghava rājā rāma, that has given him this effect, yes. On account of chanting. But he really did not understand. Just like the same example, the Mohammedan. He said "hā rāma." He wanted to speak "hārāma," but it become "hā rāma." That is the... He did not know anything about Rāma, but the name Rāma is so powerful that although he said, "hārāma," it effected. Yes. But Gandhi may not know the purpose of Bhagavad-gītā, but as he chanted "hā rāma," that has been effective.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Now, I, when we were talking, I asked him one question, that "Professor Kotofsky, you are communist, I am Kṛṣṇite. So where is the difference of philosophy? Because you have to accept one authority, leader. So you have accepted Lenin as leader; we have accepted Kṛṣṇa as leader. So where is the difference on the principle?" So he could not answer. But he very much appreciated this, that "Where is the difference between these two principles." But now we have to consider whether the leadership of Lenin is good, or the leadership of Kṛṣṇa is good. That is another thing. But you have to accept one leader. You cannot do without leader. That is not possible.

Professor: Well, well, to some extent it's possible.

Prabhupāda: No, every extent. Anyone, anyone calling... So many philosophy or ism, he has got leader. That you cannot avoid. The Buddhists, they are following Lord Buddha. Christians, they are following Lord Jesus Christ. Mohammedans, they are following Mohammed. Similarly the communists, they are following Lenin, or Max. What is?

Devotees: Marx.

Paramahaṁsa: Karl Marx.

Prabhupāda: Karl Marx.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Strictly in Rāmānuja sampradāya, or Śaiva sampradāya they have got... Strictly taking bath and tilaka. In New Delhi, you'll find so many Madrasi gentlemen, big, big, high officers, they're strictly following Hindu principles.

Ambassador: You'll be surpri...

Prabhupāda: And still, if I am correct, in Madras, they, there, there is not many Mohammedans. The Mohammedan culture could not enter...

Ambassador: That's very true.

Prabhupāda: ...into Madras, Southern India. And you'll find also in our Caitanya Caritāmṛta... Now I am translating. When Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to Southern India, practically whole Southern India became Vaiṣṇava by His preaching.

Room Conversation -- September 19, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: We are arrested by the police sometimes. Sometimes there are big cases against us. In Ireland. Ireland?

Pradyumna: Ireland, Scotland, in Edinburgh, too.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) These impediments are always there, even in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time. The Kazi, the Mohammedan magistrate, he wanted to stop. (pause) Kṛṣṇa tvadīya pada-paṅkaja-pañjarāntam (MM 33). So you are devotee of Rādhārāṇī. Eh? Yes, that is good. Through Rādhārāṇī, one should approach Kṛṣṇa. And therefore Vṛndāvana, they, everyone says, "Jaya Rādhe," first of all glorifying Rādhārāṇī. We have got many records. This is one of them, kīrtana. (record starts playing) (break) (sounds of people leaving and Śrīla Prabhupāda saying Hare Kṛṣṇa to individual people) (Hindi) (break)

Guest (2) (Indian man): ...by working towards perfection in my duty...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that perfection is to please Kṛṣṇa. If by... You are doing everything. That's all right, but if by your working Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, then that working is perfect. If Kṛṣṇa is not satisfied, then it is useless, waste of time.

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1973, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But suppose you are different...

Guest: But, but...

Prabhupāda: He is Christian, she is Mohammedan, she is Buddhist. Secular government means government should give protection to the Hindu, to the Muslim, to the Christian, to the Buddhist. But it is the government's duty to see that no one is cheating.

(Prabhupāda and guests converse in Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Government's duty to see that people may not become cheated. (Hindi) Let me speak in English, so they can follow.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the beginning...

Umāpati: In the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Just like loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantoḥ. There is tendency for eating meat. Therefore Vedas says that "You can eat meat, but..." Not only Vedas, in other scriptures also. The Jews also say. The Mohammedans also say that you can kill in the synagogue or in the, what is called, mosque, one animal. But not slaughterhouse. No religion prescribes that you open slaughterhouse. No.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. One of the members was our relative. So we are staying with them, these Mulliks. He had no sons. So we were staying, some relatives. Therefore I was born in that family, although they are our distant relations. But when I was, my father was staying there, I was born. These Mulliks they are also De. Their original title is De. This Mullik is their title.

Yaśomatīnandana: For being in the Mohammedan service?

Prabhupāda: Yes, not service. Sometimes the Mohammedans used to give... Just like the British government used to give titles, "Sir", like that. Mullik, Mullik comes from the word "mallika".

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mallika means owner, the owner?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mullik, Chaudhuri, Raya. These are Mohammedan titles. Khan. Like that. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...family names, we said two family names, like Raya Chaudhuri, like Datta Gupta. How this happened?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like the Mulliks they're De Mullik. The original title is De but they got the title Mullik. Similarly, there is another family. They are called Sil Mullik. The original title is Sil but they got the title. As De we belong to the same family. But because, somehow or other, they got this title, so they... It is not different but...

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: Well I realized afterwards that I was lower than a śūdra, because actually it was my duty and I rejected it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why we are accepting in Europe and America all them brāhmaṇa? They are not born in brāhmaṇa family. But why we are giving them sacred thread? Only for quality and work. That is said in the śāstra. Nārada Muni says that the quality and the symptoms is the real platform of judging who is brāhmaṇa, who is śūdra. Nārada said and Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented upon him that birth is immaterial. Quality and work is (indistinct). Otherwise how Caitanya Mahāprabhu can accept Haridāsa Ṭhākura as nāmācārya, the authority of the Holy Name? He was born in a Mohammedan family. And this Sanātana Gosvāmī, they are rejected from brāhmaṇa family because they're servants of Nawab Hussain Shah and they adopted Muslim way of life. Their name was also changed-Dabira Khāsa, Sākara Mallika, this Mallika (laughs), Sākara Mallika. But although they're born in brāhmaṇa family, but they're rejected from the brāhmaṇa family because they accepted service. Formerly the brāhmaṇas were so strict. Brāhmaṇa cannot accept any service. Then he becomes śūdra. To accept service is the business of the śūdra. And it is warned in the śāstra. If a brāhmaṇa becomes economically poor, he may act as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya, not as a śūdra. Then it will be quite degradation. So now this, what is this brāhmaṇa, he's in service?

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: There's one Arab leader, he goes to the temple five times a day, he doesn't eat meat, er, doesn't drink liquor or smoke or go out with women...

Prabhupāda: Yes, these are, these are prohibited in Muhammadan villages.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But still it is good. To some extent, he's advanced.

Karandhara: He doesn't allow any liquor shops or tobacco shops in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, that's good.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: All these things are sinful. To drink is sinful. Even among the Muhammadans. To smoke, sinful. They have got austerities. Their animal-killing is once in a year. (Hindi) Only animals should be sacrificed in worship. There are so many things. Every religion there is good thing, but then nobody follows. Simply defined, "I'm Christian," "I'm Muhammadan," "I am Hindu..." That's all. He's neither of them. He's simply animal. He's simply animal. Just like these rascal Christian. The first proposition is "Thou shalt not kill," and see they're simply killing, and they're claiming "Christians." Just see. All rascals, and they're claiming, "We're follower of Christian." (break) ...propaganda is to teach all these rascals. Therefore we say general rascals. It may be very strong... That professor was referring, "Yes, everyone is rascal." You know that professor?

Karandhara: Yes. He thought "rascals" was a bit harsh.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa says rascal; therefore...

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Christianity is Vaiṣṇavism.

Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇavism? Absolutely Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who... Mohammedan is also Vaiṣṇavism.

Dr. Patel: Mohammedanism is not Vaiṣṇavism.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Caitanya Mahāprabhu had talk with the Pāṭhānas. He proved that "Your religion is Vaiṣṇavism."

Dr. Patel: Christianity is Vaiṣṇavism 100%.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is. I have already explained that.

Dr. Patel: No, Christianity is 100% Vaiṣṇavism. I have studied Christianity very well.

Prabhupāda: Not hundred percent, but...

Dr. Patel: More or less.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, some of these Māyāvādī sannyāsīs accuse me that "Bhaktivedanta Swami is spoiling our Hindu religion." Means dveṣṭā. They do not like Christians. They do not like Mohammedans. But I am accepting Mohammedans, Christian, any damn rascal: "Come on. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Mr. Sar: And be a brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is adveṣṭā. (break) ...envious of Christian.

Dr. Patel: Nirmamo nirahaṅkāraḥ sama-duḥkha-sukhaḥ...

Prabhupāda: Why you should be?

Dr. Patel: ...santuṣṭaḥ satataṁ yogī yatātmā dṛḍha-niścayaḥ, mayy-arpita-mano-buddhir (BG 8.7).

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Mr. Sar: Ye... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: We cannot change. Therefore yesterday I said, "Why shall I go to...?"

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nehru's family is Mohammedan family, everything Mohammedans. Yes. You know?

Dr. Patel: And those men...

Prabhupāda: His daughter, his daughter was kidnapped by Mohammedans. Not kidnapped. She willingly went.

Yaśomatīnandana: Whose daughter?

Prabhupāda: This Motilal Nehru's. Jawaharlal's sister.

Dr. Patel: Who was ambassador in America. Vijaya Laksmi Gandhi. In America only, in states also, she was always keeping fully drunk and all... These are the type of people ruling over.

Prabhupāda: She was not coming back from that Mohammedan. Only Gandhi intermediated.

Dr. Patel: Mahatmaji played a fool with her. Being a bania he said that one wanted to, had to be a Muslim. So Mahatmaji said he would ask that man to become a Hindu. "If he becomes Hindu, I don't mind. You marry her." And that fellow, the Muslim, would not become Hindu. And then he ran off. That is how it happened.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Viṣṇujana: And there were only two Hindu gentlemen in the village and still, the Mohammedans received us and arranged for our kīrtana and prasādam distribution.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Viṣṇujana: We felt it was Nityānanda's grace.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Viṣṇujana: First we were afraid. Haridāsa Brahmacārī told me: "Oh, these are Mohammedans. They'll not help us in any way, nor will they accept prasādam." But then I said let us go...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Everyone will help us. Maybe... In that way sometimes Hindus are also against. It is not the Mohammedans. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's time, even the Hindus were against His movement, the brāhmaṇas. They complained to the Kazi that "This is not Hindu movement." You see? The saṅkīrtana movement. Therefore Kazi had to take steps to stop the saṅkīrtana movement. So Kazi took step on the ground of complaint by the Hindus.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpānanda: (break) ...body when it's old and wears out, and yet they're spending all their energy...

Prabhupāda: No, he desires. He creates his body. Just like the, sometimes the Mohammedans, they think that tiger is the best life. Sera. Sera. Wa (?) sera haya. Means to become a tiger is the perfection of..." You become sera. That's all. Kṛṣṇa gives... He is within the heart. "All right, I'll give you chance. Become a sera." But when he becomes sera, he does not eat for months. You'll never find a sera very fatty. Because he cannot eat. Every animal knows, "There is a tiger." They avoid. By chance, he can hunt out.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that "You are doing so much for the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans are obedient. So why don't you stop this cow killing?" "How can I interfere with their religious?" Just see.

Devotee: This is...

Prabhupāda: "Cow killing is religion." And he was such a fool that if somebody said that "Cutting the throat of others is my religion," he would allow, "Yes, you can do that."

Morning Walk -- March 9, 1974, Mayapura:

Guest (1): We can do our worship anywhere else.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And it is said...

Guest (1): Anywhere, in the jungle, anywhere else.

Prabhupāda: ...bhakti. Bhakti, the definition of bhakti is given in the Bhāgavata, apratihatā. Pratihata means impediment. I have seen amongst the Mohammedans. It is very good. As soon as their namaz time is there, anywhere they will...

Guest (1): Anywhere, anywhere, they will.

Prabhupāda: It is very good.

Guest (1): Even on road, they will...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Arcye viṣṇau... (break) ...when it will teach military art, with tilaka, soldiers will, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa..." (laughter) We want that. Marching with military band, "Hare Kṛṣṇa." You maintain this idea. Is it not good?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: When there will be military march of Kṛṣṇa conscious soldiers. Anyone who does not believe in Kṛṣṇa, "Blam!" (laughter) Yes. The same process as the Mohammedans did, with sword and Koran, we'll have to do that. "Do you believe in Kṛṣṇa or not?" "No, sir." "Blam!" Finished. (laughter, Prabhupāda laughs) What do you think, Madhudviṣa Mahārāja? Is that all right?

Madhudviṣa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: They did not serve Muslims, like brāhmaṇas who are from Bengal and Gujarat. Gujarati brāhmaṇas and Bengali brāhmaṇas served the Muslims...

Prabhupāda: Brahminical culture. Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was also brāhmaṇa, but because he served the Mohammedans, he was rejected from the brāhmaṇa society. Then Kṛṣṇa, as Caitanya Mahāprabhu, raised them to the position of gosvāmīs. Their name was also changed. Dabir Khas.

Dr. Patel: Muslim name.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Muslim name.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Demons. You'll see the Mohammedans, they worship the tomb. And Christian also, they worship the tomb. They offer wreath on the tomb. So tamasic. What is there in the tomb? But because they're tamasic, they're worshiping like that. And this, this so-called incarnation worship is also tamasic. By tamasic, in darkness they accept somebody as incarnation, and they worship. This is tamasic.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: If someone said to us that "You are worshiping samādhi," what is the answer?

Prabhupāda: Samādhi, we are offering respect to the ācāryas. Yes. Not that we are simply worshiping samādhi. We are worshiping Kṛṣṇa also, side by side. It is not that... Then samādhi worship is finished. That is ācārya. Ācārya is, although worshiped as the Supreme Lord, but the Lord is also worshiped.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. Even Gandhi refused. Gandhi was approached by the... "Mahātmāji, you can stop this cow-killing." He replied, "How can I stop? It is their religion." Just see. (break) ...kṛṣi go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is the duty of the vaiśyas.

Indian (3): Killing of the cow, there is no...

Prabhupāda: Eh? (break) But who supplies the cow to us?

Indian (3): They are Hindus.

Prabhupāda: They are Hindus. (break) ...travelling with a Mohammedan. At that time there was no Second Class, Inter Class or Second Class I was. So that Mohammedan gentleman, when he called for that food supply, so he was asking very... "Is there any meat, cow's flesh?" "No, no, sir. No, sir." "That's all right."

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. (break) So at the present moment Indians means non-Mohammedans. What he is, he does not know—but he is not Mohammedan. That's all. (laughter) Otherwise he has to be, go to Pakistan. Therefore he's non-Mohammedan. That's all. (break) In big, big cities you cannot safely walk. Here, India still, we lie down in the open air. That is not possible there. In Dallas, Dallas I wanted to lie down in the open air. "No, no, you cannot do that."

Dr. Patel: In that way England is better. England is far better.

Prabhupāda: No, no, England... England you cannot lie down on the open. No.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...purpose of life. But they do not know what is the purpose of life. They have taken the idea of cats and dogs, simply sense gratification. Now, where, how there will be good government. (break) ...all leniency to the Mohammedans to get vote. That's a fact. (break) Mahābhārata, anywhere, or Rāmāyaṇa, you'll never find a woman is elected on the topmost post.

Dr. Patel: And that was widow.

Prabhupāda: No, woman is never, was made a king. That was... Now it has become a fashion.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Well, people, people have become godless everywhere. It doesn't matter whether he is a Christian or Muhammadan or Hindu. That is a general disease. So actually, everyone is concerned now with material comforts. But these material comforts mean wine and women, that's all. Substance of material comforts. So that they have enjoyed enough. The facility of enjoying woman and getting money, there is no limit. There is no limit. Anyone, the money is thrown in the street. You can simply collect. And similarly, women are available. So actually, they do not get any happiness by these material elements. They are seeking after something, that's a fact.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. We have got branch in Moscow, we have got in China. But they are taking gradually. Everything will take time. But we have got many Muhammadan students. Yes.

Guest (8): You have got a center established in Iran?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (8): Within what time? Recent?

Prabhupāda: I think about two years. Yes. We have got African students also, many African students. And everywhere we are spreading this Hare Kṛṣṇa. We go village to village, they accept. In African village, with big, big earrings, they also dance in Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, they will say that "We have not forgotten God. We go to church regularly." And the Mohammedans will say that "We go to mosque. So why we have forgotten God?"

Pañcadraviḍa: Going to church or mosque... When we are speaking to the people, we don't discourage that they change their religion or anything.

Prabhupāda: No. You, your charge is that they have forgotten God. They will answer that "We have not forgotten God. We are going to church, we are going to our mosque. Why we have forgotten God?"

Pañcadraviḍa: Because they are not serving Him... (break) ...relationship. They are not actively serving Him. They are engaging themselves... We see practically that some people say they are theists...

Prabhupāda: Then what is the meaning of service?

Pañcadraviḍa: Service means a relationship of serving out of love. So people are simply serving their stomach or...

Prabhupāda: "So if I haven't got love, then why I am coming to church?"

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: Then if you have love of God, then we are also spreading this consciousness of love of God all over the whole world to people who have not developed that love, then you should willingly engage yourself in supporting this work.

Prabhupāda: "But we are also preaching." Mohammedans will say, "We preaching. We take also sword sometimes. If he does not believe in God, we cut his throat." The Christian missionaries, they will also say that "We are also going on all over the world. We have made so many big church."

Pañcadraviḍa: We have also got our work, and we show them...

Prabhupāda: No, no. How do you say that you are better than him? If they are also doing, it may be difference of degrees, but we are also doing the same thing.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now he is above brāhmaṇa. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He is brahma-bhūtaḥ, not brāhmaṇa.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā
na śocati na kāṅkṣati
samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu
mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param
(BG 18.54)

Anyone who is in the devotional service, he is already brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...Bengali proverb, Bengali tomār je balo asa, mussulmaner murgi pasa, (laughter) that "You love me just like the Mohammedan loves the murgi, chicken every day cutting one." I thought that they are taking so much care of the cows but later I understood not taking care. They are making them fattened to kill. The whole Western world. Why America? In your country also. In England? This is the process. Letchmore Heath in our Bhaktivedanta Manor, so many cows were there. It is meant for killing.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Christianity it is really Vaiṣṇavism, but they, unfortunately... The church...

Prabhupāda: Mohamedanism... Mohammedanism...

Dr. Patel: The church has spoiled it.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Dr. Patel: Church has defaced it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere.

Dr. Patel: It is the church, Christian church, which has defaced Christism.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everywhere the followers make the whole thing bungled. Hm. Go on.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: The best truth, and I think it's truth for most of us who take ourselves seriously...

Prabhupāda: Just like in our society, we have got Americans, we have got Africans, Canadians, Indians, Christians, Jews, Mohammedans. But they are no longer Mohammedan, American, Christian or African. They are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. And that is Brahmān realization.

O'Grady: But that's giving it a name also.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Muhammadanism also Vaiṣṇavism, because Muhammad says, "I am servant of God, Allah." So that is our conception, dāsya-rasa, dāsya. Śānta, dāsya, sakhya, vātsalya, mādhurya. So prayer, offering prayer, that is also bhakti. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ vandanam. Just like we are worshiping Deity and somebody is offering prayer—both of them are approved. Prayer, vandanam. Dāsyam sakhyam ātma-nivedanam. So we don't say that this is bad and this is good. No. Both of them are bhakti. To worship the Deity or to offer prayer, the effect is the same. Effect is not different.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) "Whatever foodstuff I have given to you, you eat then, live and be God conscious." The animals, they are not coming to eat your foodstuff, your fruits. They are, rather, producing milk not for drinking themselves. They are giving you, and you have no obligation? The milk produced by the cows, it is taken by the human being. They do not drink it. So they are giving milk. And after death, you are taking their skin. So every way they are serving. The stool, cowdung, we have stacked here. I have seen. There also fertilizer. In so many ways they are giving you service, and you are killing the poor animal. What is the human civilization? Therefore Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal killing first. When there was too much animal killing, the incarnation of Lord Buddha was there to stop animal killing. In Buddhism there is no animal killing. Although they are now killing animals, but originally Buddha religion means non-violence. Also Lord Christ also said, "Thou shalt not kill." And Kṛṣṇa says, ahiṁsā. So in no religion unnecessary killing of animals is allowed. Even in Mohammedans, they are also... Kurvāni. Kurvāni means they can kill animals once in a year in the Mosque. So everywhere animal killing is restricted.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: Lady says that there are some common points with the Christians who also certainly want to become independent from this body which wants material life only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether it is Christianity or Hinduism or Muslim or... Knowledge is knowledge. Wherever knowledge is available, you must pick up. So knowledge... Now let us explain, that knowledge has no color. Knowledge is knowledge. It doesn't matter whether Christianism or Hinduism or Mohammedan. Now, this is a knowledge, that every living entity is imprisoned within this body. This knowledge is equally good for Hindus, Muslim, Christian or everyone. There is no question of Christianism or Hinduism. The soul is imprisoned within this body, and the problem is birth, death, old age and disease on account of this body. But we want to live eternally, we want full knowledge; we want full blissfulness. To attain that goal of life, we must get out of this body. This is the process.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: It is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all these types of false religions." Mam ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, anyone. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's in trouble. (indistinct) And our difficulty is that when we want to convince a person on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan. I am trying to proselytize, that is (indistinct).

Guest: No, it was not that I was really saying. Rather that what I have heard from others comes to the same thing as you were saying.

Prabhupāda: Others, if they try for the same thing, then it is alright. Because that type of religion, that system of religion, is first-class which teaches people to come to the platform of God consciousness, to love God, then that is first-class religious system. It doesn't matter what is the designation.

Room Conversations -- September 11, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Public street. Because they do not know except sex, they think this kind of sex is very nice. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām: (SB 7.5.30) chewing the chewed.

Brahmānanda: They're not satisfied with sex with a man, so they have it with an ass.

Prabhupāda: Their center is sex—this sex or that sex or that sex, even ordinarily. In Paris, Paris you know it is a city of prostitutes. On the roads there are prostitutes. Where we have got our temple, so many prostitutes are standing. And those who are prostitute-hunter, they go to Paris. From our childhood I know about one family physician. We are at that time boy, 8 or 10 years old. He was talking with his another Muhammadan friend how he toured many countries and how many different types of prostitutes he tasted. This was his talk. So he was talking of Paris, "Though you are boy...," this we could understand." This is the talk. Old men, retired men, they will also talk of the sex (indistinct), and they will enjoy.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if you go to God, that is very good. With motive or without motive, you have come to God, that is piety. That is better than to become impious. Impious men, they do not go to God. Just like nowadays nobody goes to church. Church are selling. Simply... Temples also. So now there are in India so many township development. They are constructing very fashionable houses, but no temples. Nobody is constructing temple. At the present moment everybody has become disinterested with anything religion and God. All over the world. That is degradation. Especially I am seeing in Bombay, that Juhu scheme, very nice houses are being manufactured. You have all seen. But nobody is constructing a temple. The modern economists, they say "nonproductive endeavor"—means there is no income. Simply you have to spend money for maintaining the temple. So they are not interested in nonproductive things. So this is degradation of the human society. Either as Christian or Hindu or Mohammedan, nobody is interested. A few may be interested.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: In the Bengali there is a saying, tomara ye bhalo vasa, mussulmane murgi posaya. You know this? That "Your love is like the Mohammedans keeping chickens and love him." That means "The chickens be fat, and I shall eat it." This is your love. They are keeping cows not for love, but for eating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I mean in the sense, farmers, that they produce the grains and vegetables. I was thinking in that line.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That is somewhere in India still. But here they keep cows not for protection, for eating. (break) ...chemical. Life is already there.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- March 13, 1975, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. And it is becoming effective. Bhagavad-gītā was studied in the Western countries since a long time, since seventeenth century—but not like this. Before me, many swamis, yogis, they came to the Western countries, and most of them spoke on Bhagavad-gītā, but not a single person was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. But now they are becoming by hundreds because the Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is. This is the comparison. We have got Christians, Mohammedans, then Buddhist, Africans. Everyone we have got in our society, all very devout executor of our mission. Now here is Mr. Attar. Now he is Atreya Ṛṣi. Whatever he is earning, he is spending for Kṛṣṇa. Saṁsiddhiḥ hari-toṣaṇam. He is trying to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. So in the dictionary it is stated, "Kṛṣṇa is a Hindu god." He is not a Hindu god; He is God. But He appeared in India. He remained in the Vedic culture. Lord Buddha was also Hindu. And he was in Vedic culture. Later on he spread his own mission. That is also Hindu culture, ahiṁsā, nonviolence. Lord Buddha... keśava dhṛta-buddha. The same Kṛṣṇa, His powerful avatāra, Lord Buddha. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We offer our prayers to Lord Buddha. Christ was also for twelve years in India. He... Christ, the word Christ and kristo, there is similarity. He also propagated love of God. That is Kṛṣṇa. So we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and you are all Indians. It is your duty to see that the movement is pushed forward.
Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said that "I am in everyone's heart." Sarvasya. Sarvasya ca aham hṛdi. Hṛdi means the heart. Sanniviṣṭaḥ: "I am there." So He is witnessing everything. So Britishers would have been... They were accepted by the Indians very nicely. People liked, because after the Mohammedan period, when the Britishers came, they did something which was very, very nice for the Indians, and the Indians, they liked them very much. Later on, they became too much greedy. For their own men they wanted to sacrifice everything Indian. So that Jalianwala-bagh. Then the Gandhi came and took this vow that "The Britishers must go, quit India." So Britishers got a very good opportunity for world unity under British Empire. But their only policy was that to exploit others and enrich London. That was their bad policy, yes. They should have ruled for the benefit of the people. Then British rule was very nice.
Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: ...they wouldn't have left easily.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, there was no need. Every country requires good government. So if somebody gives good government and keeps the people nice, happy, and people hasn't got any interest that the... Now they have made like that. Formerly, at least in India, they didn't care whether it is being ruled by the Mohammedans or by the Englishmen or foreign... They wanted peaceful life, that's all. So the Mohammedans, they made their home in India, the Moguls. They were not exploiting India and taking the money outside. Although the Moguls were very luxurious, but they were spending money in India, India's money in India. And, of course, they accuse, the Mohammedan government was very bad. But I think if it was so bad, how they could rule over India for eight hundred years? And in those days Indians were in their own culture. They did not lose their culture, Hindu culture. The Britishers peacefully killed the Hindu culture, Vedic culture, yes.

Ambassador: I saw where they killed it much more effectively, and that was in Ceylon.

Prabhupāda: Ceylon, oh.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No. Tradition, religion, they are all material. They are also all designation. I am thinking I am Hindu, you are thinking you are Christian, he is thinking as Buddhist—these are all designation.

Ambassador: Within each of these there is the esoteric.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is material. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). "Give up all this type of false religion." Mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. That means come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ekam, only one. So unless one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is in trouble of this material condition. And our difficulty is that when we want to convince another person about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he thinks that "I am Hindu, I am Christian, I am Mohammedan, so they are trying to proselytize me." That is the difficulty.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Yoga student: Yes. Akbar is being the superlative of kabirsh(?).

Prabhupāda: And Muhammad is the greatest? No. He is subordinate.

Yoga student: No. And in fact Muslims object to their religion being called Mohammedanism because it implies that they worship Muhammad, whereas in fact they feel that they go straight to God, to Allah, which... and that Muhammad simply was a messenger.

Prabhupāda: That's good.

Yoga student: And they regard... They call their religion Islam, which means submission.

Prabhupāda: That's very good.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That is very good. That is our philosophy. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumārtho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says, "That is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him." That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaiṣṇava dharma in a crude form like the Christian. So we can amalgamate them all if they are sane men. I suggested that there are many churches vacant. If they give us these churches we shall install Deity—Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva—and along with them we shall worship Lord Jesus Christ also. Similarly, we can do Muhammad. There is no harm. But they are against this Deity worship, eh? Mohammedans?

Yoga student: Yes, they are. That sort of expression. And yet, amongst the Sufi poets...

Prabhupāda: Deity is also expression, form is also expression, but they do not understand it.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. India... Formerly your country was part of India, and you belong to the same culture. So far I understand, Iran means Āryan? So Āryan culture was practically all over the world. Āryan culture is based on God consciousness. So amongst the Āryans there is some conception of religion, either Christian religion or Mohammedan religion, Buddhist religion, Vedic religion, based on conception of God. So according to time, country, the ways of understanding may be little different, but the aim is God consciousness. That is Āryan civilization. So God is one; God cannot be two. So the features of God or angle of vision of God may be different. So they have been summarized in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. (Aside:) You can come forward. One feature of God is impersonal. Just like the sunshine. Sunshine is spreading all over the universe. It is impersonal. But the quality of the sunshine is heat and light. The heat and light means energy. So as in the material calculation, the heat and light is the cause of all creation. Just like at the present moment there is not sufficient heat; therefore the trees have no leaves. And as soon as there will be little more heat they will be all green. So you can take it that the creation of the foliage is due to the heat. Similarly light. So heat and light is the cause of all this material creation. And heat and light is coming from the sunshine, er, sun. Therefore heat becomes the origin of creation even in this material world.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Being, and He has got many expansion. So Viṣṇu is also expansion.

rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan
nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu
kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ pumān yo
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
(Bs. 5.39)

This is in the Vedas, Brahma-saṁhitā. Kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ sama... Kṛṣṇa means the original. And He expands in so many forms, rāmādi-mūrtiṣu: Rāma, Nṛsiṁha, Varāha, Viṣṇu, Saṅkarṣaṇa, Balarāma—so many thousands. But the original person is Kṛṣṇa. (Pause) Therefore I asked, "What is the idea of God?" I suppose you are all Mohammedan.

Young man: We were brought up as Mohammedans.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So what is the conception of God in Islam?

Young man: Even as a Mohammedan, I didn't have very good teaching. My teachers didn't know the Koran very well, and therefore they gave me no concept of God when I was a child. I don't know what the Mohammedan concept of God is.

Prabhupāda: Any one of you cannot explain? You have got?

Young man: I think it's the all-powerful one who's omnipotent, the same as in all religions. There is one God.

Prabhupāda: So His form... What is the form?

Young man: What is His form? He created the world...

Prabhupāda: That is His action. What is His form?

Young man: A heavenly being.

Young man (2): There is no form given for God. It's spiritual.

Prabhupāda: The description must be there.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Young man (2): There is no form given for God. It's spiritual.

Prabhupāda: The description must be there.

Girl: He's a human being. He's got a human form.

Prabhupāda: That I am asking, what is the form?

Young man: Well, the only thing... It just says that He created man after His own image. So...

Prabhupāda: That is the Christian idea.

Young man: Yeah. And the...

Prabhupāda: The Mohammedan, Islam is also same idea?

Young man: Well, since the Old Testament, part of the Old Testament, is very similar to the Koran, I presume the creation of Adam, that bit, is also taken from the Old Testament. But He is projected as a great judge really, a supreme judge.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, if you want to study something, and suppose you are sometimes from India, the same subject he's going to study in foreign country, farther enlightenment, it is also not necessary that to study a subject matter more and more, we have to remain in the same jurisdiction. If I am actually anxious to know more and more, it doesn't matter whether I get the knowledge from Mohammedan or Hindu or Christian, it doesn't matter. Knowledge is knowledge. When a student goes from one country to another to get farther enlightenment on a subject matter, he does not think that "I'll have to learn it from here, from my university." For knowledge, progress of knowledge, you can go to any university. Because knowledge must be scientific. It is not restricted within the jurisdiction of a particular university. So, sun we are seeing, everyone, the sun, getting heat and light but if anyone is interested (to) know how the heat is coming, how the light is coming, what is the situation of the sun globe, whether there are living entities or not. They're also subject matter. So if you can get enlightenment of the sun, we should not restrict ourselves that we have to study with this jurisdiction of my university, or my country, or my society. If the knowledge is there, we should be prepared to go forward.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: No, you say God has got the nicest name.

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: I say...

Guest: But the name is just an indication, the name is something we call it, it is for us to have a word.

Prabhupāda: But that I ask you, that what is that name? As I have... We have got the nicest name, Kṛṣṇa. Now you suggest that this is the nicest name in Mohammedan, Kṛṣṇa. You say me that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Allah.

Prabhupāda: You say, "What is that name?"

Guest: First of all, this man is talking (indistinct) any difference to call it Allah.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't make any difference but I want to know, I want to know what is that nicest name. I don't make any difference.

Guest: Well, it's called (indistinct) they call it Allah.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Then our request is that you chant the name of God. So if Allah is the name of God, you chant Allah, don't chant Kṛṣṇa. We say that.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is our philosophy. sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Premā pumartho mahān. This is the highest goal of life, how one has developed his love for God. And Bhāgavata says that is first-class religion which trains the followers how to love God and serve Him. That is first-class religion. Then Islam is Vaisnalam in crude form, like the Christians (indistinct) if they are sane man. I suggested that there are many churches vacant, if they give us these churches, we shall install Deity, Gaurasundara, Nitāi-Gaura and Pañca-tattva, and along with them we can worship Jesus Christ. Similarly, we can do Mohammed. But they are against this Deity worship. Yes?

Guest: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Mohammedans?

Guest: Yes, with that sort of expression.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: And yet amongst the Sufi poets there is...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) is also expression, form is also expression.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Many times, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I've heard you say, when speaking to people, that "You don't have to give up your faith. You can remain a Christian or you can remain a Mohammedan. Simply chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and you'll become purified." So the main point...

Prabhupāda: No, we say not only Hare Kṛṣṇa. "You chant the name of God. But if you have no name of God, then here is the name of God."

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yeah. So that if we can get Christians to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, then...

Prabhupāda: That is all right. Anyone who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. It doesn't matter what he is.

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: Nehru started that slaughterhouse?

Prabhupāda: No, it is British contribution, the mlecchas. Before British period, even in Mohammedan period, there was no slaughterhouse, neither the public used to take cow's flesh. Still in Mohammedan country, Afghanistan, these places, they do not take cow's flesh. Lamb, goats. In the Vedic culture, the cow is recommended to be protected, not other animals. Other animals, the meat-eaters can eat.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: They are also becoming oranges. Japanese enjoy.

Haṁsadūta: The Japanese and Chinese are very, very small.

Prabhupāda: Did it...? (break) ...special. There is a proverb, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman kalki chele busi... (?) A brāhmaṇa, black... Brāhmaṇa's another name is śukla, white. So as soon as a brāhmaṇa is black then he's (indistinct) kalo brāhmaṇa. Kota śūdra, and śūdra, just like African, if they become white there is something mystery. Kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman, Mohammedan, because Mohammedan means the Afghans, they are very tall, so a Mussulman is dwarf, a brāhmaṇa is black, the śūdra is white, kalo brāhmaṇa kota śūdra bete mussulman and kalki chelo, that means the bastard and (indistinct) ...these are all of the same class. Adopted son, he gets money, without any labor, he spends like anything.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. What it has got with Caitanya's movement?

Rāmeśvara: I heard... A devotee once told me that they were actually...

Prabhupāda: Oh, again, "heard it from devotee." (laughter) That is very dangerous. What Caitanya's movement has got with politics? Nothing. They drag Caitanya's movement, that. Many rascals do that. It has nothing to do with politics. It is simply spiritual. Rather, even the Mohammedans, they were very much respectful to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They never took it as, His, the political movement. Now it has become a fashion to take everything from political point of view. Just like in India, they are suspecting you as CIA. "CIA has come to become Vaiṣṇava." (laughter) (break) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. If anyone remembers Kṛṣṇa by seeing somebody, that somebody is a Vaiṣṇava. He gives impetus to remember Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is Vaiṣṇava. You stick to your principle, Vaiṣṇava. Then māyā will not touch.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Coordination. As head is also trying to maintain the body nicely, this arm is also. Now this has been nationally centralized. So that is the idea. Not that "Because I am head, brāhmaṇa, oh, here is a śūdra. Oh, don't see his face." Why? Śūdra is also required. Leg is also required. Head is also required.

Governor: It is an harmonious coordination.

Prabhupāda: Yes, harmonious coordination. But the śūdras were hated like anything, and they became Mohammedans. And there was no reacceptance. Formerly, from Caitanya literature we understand, that if the Musselman will take little water from the badna (?) and sprinkle like this, then you become Mohammedan. In this way all these Indians, they became Mohammedan. And the result is now the Pakistan, and you go on fighting forever. Why these innocent persons who were by sprinkling water became Mohammedan, why they do not claim? Kṛṣṇa and the śāstra, it does not say that if one has fallen, you cannot reclaim him. No, why not reclaim him? Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa... (BG 9.32). This is by birth. And of course, in our country everything was taken by birth. Now it is going on. But even by birth one is low-grade...

Governor: No, birth also was built up by a tradition. They were brought up in that atmosphere.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1975, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, sometimes during your lectures I hear you say yata mat tata mat?

Prabhupāda: Ah, yata mat tata path.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: That is Vivekananda's philosophy. "Whatever opinion you have got, that is also nice." That means even if we differ, your opinion, my opinion, your is good and my is good. That means no controversy, that's all: making compromise. If I say, "Your, your whatever you think..." This is going on. When Gandhi was approached that "You have got so much influence on the Mohammedans. Why don't you stop this cow slaughter?" Gandhi said, "No, it is their religion. I cannot stop." That is yata mat, that "Cow slaughter is also good, and cow not slaughter is also good." (chuckles) This is their philosophy. (break) What is called?

Acyutānanda: Yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Yātrā. To collect some money, that's all.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: ...change your views victimized by these rascals. The rascals are very strong. (break) In the Sixteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ janā na vidur āsurāḥ. Asura. Asura, demons, demonic civilization, demonic people, they do not know what is pravṛtti and what is nivṛtti. Pravṛtti means material civilization, and nivṛtti means spiritual civilization. The modern man does not know. They are neither educated about this pravṛtti and nivṛtti. And we are speaking on nivṛtti, and all of them are in the pravṛtti. So they cannot understand. It is foreign to them. They have no idea what is spiritual life, spiritual civilization. Five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa spoke of all these things very clearly. Later on, the things, from the beginning of Kali-yuga, the things are deteriorating, and therefore different types of religion has sprung up. The Buddhism, Christianism, Mohammedanism. They are not perfect understanding of religious principle. And gradually the number of so-called religious section are increasing. Our Mr. Nanda is presenting another religion, mānava-dharma. Everyone is manufacturing. And Vivekananda is supporting, "Yes, every type of religious system is as good." This is nonsense. Actually, they do not know what is religion.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: They don't make much profit. That is the oriental culture. They make little profit; they are satisfied. Still in India you will find many hotel, very cheap, very cheap. Especially Mohammedan hotels. Still, by paying eight annas, you can get full meal.

Devotee (1): When Rāvaṇa was on the earth, was the whole earth populated, like Brazil and also the other parts of the world?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere population. This is a new theory of the rascals that there was no civilization before three thousand years. This is wrong theory. Everything was there.

Devotee (1): So when Mahārāja Yayāti banished his sons to those kingdoms, they were already populated there.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Jesuit: Well, I have kept you long enough. I...

Prabhupāda: No, you can keep me engaged whole day and night, (laughter) provided you have got time. We are meant for this purpose. If anyone can understand God consciousness, that is a great profit for us. Now our appeal is to everyone, every religious sect, that people are becoming godless generally at the present moment. So we should make combined effort to revive their God consciousness. Otherwise it is doomed. And there is no question of Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God. God is one. So there should be no difference between the system. According to the time and circumstances, there may be little difference, but really if we can understand God, either through Christianity or through Hinduism or Muslim, that is our profit. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). "That is first-class religion, following which, one becomes a lover of God". You become a lover of God. That we want to see. It doesn't matter whether you go through Christian religion or Mohammedan religion or Hindu religion or Buddhist...

It doesn't matter. You understand God and love Him.

Jesuit: I agree entirely.

Prabhupāda: This is our mission.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: That is the way. It is going on. So nāsau munir yasya... So if I take the opinion of one muni and another muni, another muni, then where is the real view? Therefore it is said mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Big personalities, what they have done, we have to follow that. So our principle is that, that we are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, mahājana, a great personality. Or the Christians are following Christ, a great personality. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. You follow some mahājana, great personality. Don't take opinion, this man, that man, this man, this man. Then you will be bewildered. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. So you have to follow one great personality, ācārya. That is also recommended in the Bhā... ācāryopāsanam, following the ācārya. So we have got recognized ācārya, just like you said, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Or Śaṅkarācārya even. You follow one ācārya, like Christians, they follow Christ, ācārya.

The Mohammedans, they follow ācārya, Mohammed. That is good. You must follow some ācārya. But don't give your opinion. That is our process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam. Just see, find out.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: A drunkard was never respected. Similarly meat-eaters. He was considered third-class man. In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: And what if the brāhmaṇa starts to rule the world in their own interest?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? (break) ...is not for his own interest, for everyone's interest. That is honesty.

Director: What if he's misguided? The world changes and since that book was...

Prabhupāda: Simply because they did not follow. Just like in India, this is the character of the brāhmaṇas that later on gradually the culture was lost since the last one thousand years, because India was subjugated by foreigners. The Mohammedans, they introduced some of their culture. Then the Britishers came. They intr... everyone wants an interest. The Britishers, when British rule came, their Lord Macauley's(?) private report was that "If you want to keep them as Indian Hindu, you will never be able to rule over." So it was British government's policy to condemn everything Indian.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:
Prabhupāda: "A very learned brāhmaṇa and a dog and an elephant, a cow, a caṇḍāla—all of them, to a paṇḍita, really learned person, sama-darśinaḥ." You see? So now how a learned scholar brāhmaṇa and a dog can be seen on equal level? But it can be seen. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). It is on the spiritual platform, that every one of us is spirit soul. We are, by different karma, we are covered with different material dress. A dog is also a soul, and a learned brāhmaṇa is also a soul. But he is covered with different body, and he is covered with different body. So one who does not see the body, he can see on the same level. But one who sees the body, he cannot see. This is the basic principle of equality. I am seeing you are Sikh, you are seeing I am Hindu, he is seeing he is Christian, he is Mohammedan, and so on, so on. And nobody is seeing that nobody is brāhmaṇa. Nobody is seeing nobody is Hindu, nobody is Christian—he is pure soul. So that vision, unless one attains, how there can be equality? There is no possibility.
Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that every, at least, religious sect... I don't say others, nonreligious or agnostic. There are Christian, Mohammedan, Hindu, Sikhs, or any religious system, they have accepted that there is God, Supreme Truth.

Yogi Bhajan: No, there is one fundamental thing which this movement may not know. In Dasan Grantha, Guru Govind Singh wrote down Kṛṣṇa avatāra.

Prabhupāda: Avatāra...

Yogi Bhajan: Kṛṣṇa avatāra is in his own poetry. It is about Lord Kṛṣṇa. If somebody of these people who know Sanskrit and who know guru-mukhi can translate that part...

Prabhupāda: No, translate or not translate, we have already accept Kṛṣṇa God. So if Guru Nanak has described Him as God, that's all right. Then if Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by Guru Nanak, and Kṛṣṇa is God, accepted by us, why not put this God, one God?

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Now, in India, I think, people ask me the "How many they are Kṛṣṇa conscious?" "Everyone in India." At least in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. So the majority of people... And why majority? The whole India. Even there are many Mohammedans who also worship Kṛṣṇa. So if Kṛṣṇa is God, we, in this conference, why not present, "Here is God, whose name is Kṛṣṇa."

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This is classification of the human being. This is not caste system. Just like we are making this American boy a brāhmaṇa. So this is a brāhmaṇa caste?

Yogi Bhajan: No, but that is only...

Prabhupāda: We have been training them to, how to acquire the brāhmaṇa qualification. It doesn't matter whether he is coming from Christian family or Mohammedan family, this... No. Just like if you train one how to become engineer, it doesn't matter from which family he comes. It doesn't matter. Any family, he can come. He can be trained how to speak truthfulness. Satyam. What is that?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. So what is the difference between man and dog? The dog is also seeing another she-dog—the most beautiful creation of God. The ass is also seeing the she-ass-most beautiful creation. So what is the difference between ass and dog and this? And a devotee says,

yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor
nava-nava-(rasa-)dhaman(y udyataṁ) rantum āsīt
tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame (smaryamāne)
bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanam (ca)

So long I have become devotee, since then, as soon as I think of sex, I spite on it." This is devotee. (break) ...whole world is going on simply by this perverted vision: the woman is very beautiful for the man and the man is very beautiful to the woman. This is the knot, hṛdaya-granthi. Otherwise how they will work? Reciprocally, they are seeing beautiful. Sometimes the women like big, big beard. Yes, they like. And they keep. The Mohammedans, they say, "We keep beard. Women like it." They don't want this shaven headed. Huh? What is your experience? (laughter)

Indian guest: Well, there is a lot more emphasis over here about sex and girls than it is...

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Why do you say here?

Indian guest: In India... I come from a village, and they don't talk... Well, fathers, parents, elder brother, and priest... And it is very different.

Prabhupāda: But that does not mean the thought of woman is absent. They may be more civilized. They don't talk loosely. But that does not mean he is free from the woman's beauty.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: When you can give life. There is sometimes cow sacrifice yajña. The cow sacrifice yajña means an old cow, he is sacrificed in the fire, and by Vedic hymns he is given again new life. To test the potency of the Vedic mantra, an old cow is sacrificed and by mantra he is given again new life. Not for killing and eating. That was discussed between Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Chand Kazi, Mohammedan magistrate. Those who have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta will find. So the Kazi was challenged by Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You are killing cow and bulls. What is your religion? You are killing your father and mother." Then, he also was learned man, he said it that "In your Vedas the cow sacrifice yajña is there." Then He explained, "This sacrifice is not for eating. It is giving a new life. To test the Vedic mantra." That is discussed in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. That is a different case.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...brāhmaṇas. are sensing danger because they see that these Europeans are worshiping Deity, temple. Then gradually there will be no caste brāhmaṇa. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...Mahāprabhu also had difficulty with the caste brāhmaṇas?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. They complained to the magistrate that "What kind of religion He is introducing? It is not our Hindu religion. So chastise Him." (break) ...report of the brāhmaṇas, the police came and broke these drums. It was not the fault of the Mohammedans. The brāhmaṇas lodged complaint against Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he has to take step. They said, "It is not Hindu religion. They are disturbing God by chanting so loudly. (laughter) Now the God is sleeping and they are disturbing, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.' So stop this." So what can he do? After all, he is public servant. Therefore he took steps.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Guest: I understand what you're saying. You're saying you cannot do practices and commit sin, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are, in every religion, there are principles. If you don't follow them, then how you become religious? Therefore this is my question. So nobody is following religious principles at the present moment. Therefore practically there is no religion. Everything is finished. We are trying to revive. If you follow religious principle, then it doesn't matter whether you are Christian or Mohammedan or Hindu or Buddha. Then you are religious. But if you do not follow any religious principle, then how you become religious?

Father: Does that mean to say that you can't live a happy life without being religious?

Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Jagadīśa: Even in the culture of Europe they had kings who had a certain territory and then they would appoint men called vassals to take care of different sections and then the serfs would work on the land.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is system, whole world. They were called... In India they were called zamindars, Mohammedans, and the Hindu zamindars, small kings. The zamindars are called king also. Anyone who owns land, he is called king.

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has imposed death, that "You may make your plan as free man, but you'll not be allowed to stay. I'll kick you out." These poor men, they did not think of it, that "I am making so nice plan, but at any moment I'll be kicked out. So where is my freedom?" Dull brain does not think of it. A prisoner, if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? A prisoner, in prison, and if he thinks that he is free to act, is it not foolishness? So that they do not think. Therefore Kṛṣṇa has grouped them: mūḍha, these rascals, mūḍha. They conduct freedom movement. Just like in our country also, before this British Empire or this Mohammedan Empire there was no knowledge about this freedom. Indian people never thought of freedom. They know that "We are not free. Where is the question of freedom?" These things have come from the foreign countries, freedom movement. What is freedom? Where are you free? You are completely under the laws of nature. Where is your freedom? So they were thinking of greater freedom, to get out of the clutches of the laws of nature. That is real freedom. What is this freedom? From frying pan to the fire? (chuckles) Now we have freedom means from frying pan to the fire. Formerly there was one viceroy. Now in each state three dozen viceroys, and you have to maintain that. So many legislators, so many secretaries, so many ministers. All, they are sucking our poor blood. That's all. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Yathā mat tathā path. This is going on. Everyone will say something, and it is all right. However nonsense it may be, it is all right. Even Gandhi followed that philosophy. Therefore he invented one, another philosophy, nonviolence, which is impossible. When Hindus approached him, that "You have got so much influence over the Mohammedans, so why not stop cow killing?" he said, "It is their religious principle. How can I interfere?" Just see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa orders in Bhagavad-gītā, go-rakṣya.

Prabhupāda: And he is considered to be a great scholar in Bhagavad-gītā, and when cow protection was requested, he said that "How can I do it? It is their religious principle." And he is a great big scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. All nonsense, going on. Whole world is full of nonsense, mūḍhas, beginning from Gandhi to any rascal, all of them, rascals. Perhaps it is the first time we are detecting, "Here are all rascals." It is first time. Then we are enemy of everyone. We call everyone rascal-Gandhi rascal, Vivekananda rascal, Aurobindo rascal. So actually they are, but people are thinking, "These people say all big, big men rascals? Therefore they are rascals."

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So all of the politicians are taking the money and they're saying that...

Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death." Therefore the Ārya-samājī rascal was: "That is Hindu belief." Why Hindu belief? Does the Mohammedan do not grow old? That answer he could not give. He is such a rascal. And at last he said that "I am God."

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jhinna, he was Muslim.

Prabhupāda: He was neither Muslim nor Hindu. He was an intelligent barrister coming from the… His father, means not real father, his father was Parsi, and he kept one Mohammedan girl. So the Jhinna is the issue of this… (to passerby) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How were the leaders, though, of India so weak when the British first occupied that they allowed this all to take place?

Prabhupāda: There was no Indian leader. That was occupied by the Mohammedans. They were deteriorating. Yes. Besides that, Indian mass of people, they were never trained to become nationalist. They thought, “Let anyone become king. It doesn’t matter. We… Let us live peacefully, and whatever due tax we shall pay. That's all.” When the Mohammedans came the people did not think that these are foreigners. "It does not matter, Mohammedan, Hindu." But they did not think so far that gradually it will deteriorate. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has favored the British government because they did not interfere with the religious affair.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Parliament can do that "We have no faith." What is called? "No confidence." "No confidence resolution." The Parliament has not done. "No confidence." So how the court can decide? (break) An open fact that this election... All elections are done illegally. So why this poor prime minister is captured? Everyone does. (Hindi) (break) Military police.

Indian man (2): Yes, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is occupying very exalted post, even in this material world, he is favored by Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī, when the Nawab said that "I shall arrest you," then he replied that "You are representative of God, so if you arrest me I have no objection." He said that. He was Mohammedan, and he was a Hindu brāhmaṇa. He never felt that "How the Mohammedan can arrest me?" No. He said that "You are representative of God because you are in such exalted post." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Kṛṣṇa also says, "Anyone who is, materially even, very opulent, that means he has got some power." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...in politics, how to treat with enemies, how to treat with friends, how to make... In politics there are so many things, diplomacy. So he said, "What is this nonsense? Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are all equal."

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because he tried to worship God in the form of Muslims.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he wanted permission from the proprietor of the temple. "Now I am going to experiment Mohammedan religion, so I want to eat beef." So he said frankly that "Now you have to go away, sir. I cannot allow this." Then he stopped.

Dr. Patel: But he did not eat beef. He did not eat beef. He saw it and that's all.

Prabhupāda: No, when the permission was not given by the proprietor he had no other way to stop.

Dr. Patel: Rasamaṇi.

Prabhupāda: Rasamaṇi. Rasamaṇi's husband.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because the Vedic principles were not properly understood by those people at that time.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. He directly said, "I don't care for the Vedas." Lord Buddha says. So who will worship a person who directly says, "I don't care for your Vedas"? Shall you go to worship a Buddhist or Mohammedan? No. This is emergency. Sadaya-hṛdaya-darśita paśu-ghāṭam. He cannot deride the Vedic principle, but it was necessary at the time. Otherwise these rascals will not stop.

Dr. Patel: Today, sir, the more animals are being killed than what they were killed in those days in the name of religion. Today it is in the name of the civilization

Prabhupāda: Because... No, no. Now there is no religion. "Secular." There is no religion.

Dr. Patel: Don't say no religion. Secularism is irreligious...

Prabhupāda: Secular means no religion.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Jayapataka: In Los Angeles they went in some movies. They got two, three thousand dollars. (break) ...buy kilos when they're that big. So many of them.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That will keep the water clean.

Jayapataka: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But be careful that these rascals may not come and throw out(?), the Mohammedans.

Jayapataka: (break) ... is growing on the water. And in the hot days they go in there.

Prabhupāda: No. That should be cleaned away.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No. Indians economical backwards because they have given up their own culture. When India was actually standing on the old culture, they were never defeated. Even the Mohammedans, they ruled over India for eight hundred years, but they could not defeat the Indian culture. But the British government are clever. They spoiled the Indian culture. Therefore they are poverty-stricken. Otherwise if India would have continued in his own culture... The Gandhi started the boycott movement. So Indian culture automatically boycotted anything foreign. We know in our childhood nothing foreign-made could be used in some ceremony. Even this cloth, it must be country-made, that, what is called?

Haṁsadūta: Khadi.

Prabhupāda: Khadi, yes. No mill-made cloth can be used. That was Indian culture. They would not touch even foreign medicine. Dr. Bose, Kartick Chandra Bose, he told me that "You do not know how much we had to flatter to accept this British medicine." They would not touch quinine, anything foreign-made. This was Indian culture.

Page Title:Mohammedan (Conversations 1967 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Serene
Created:02 of Jul, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=142, Let=0
No. of Quotes:142