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Medicine (Conversations - October, 1977)

Expressions researched:
"medicament" |"medication" |"medicinal" |"medicinally" |"medicine" |"medicine's" |"medicines"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The kavirāja said that my life is finished; now by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. So under the circumstances, whatever medicinal instruction he gives, strictly follow properly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So you cannot understand Bengali. Bhagatji can understand...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hindi.

Prabhupāda: Hindi, also Bengali. Sac-cid-ānanda also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but neither of them are like Bhakti-caru was.

Prabhupāda: So call him.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He is giving medicine for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I couldn't follow anything. It was all in Bengali. (Prabhupāda coughs up mucus)

Prabhupāda: So far that... He said that "Life is finished, and you are simply still living by the grace of Kṛṣṇa. And there is still life. Let us try it." Now he is coming. Ask him daily what...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He speaks English. He spoke with me in English. I think he speaks some English, the kavirāja, a little bit. So you feel a little hopeful?

Prabhupāda: Eh. For me, either live or die, I don't mind. But if you are trying for my life, try it very seriously. That is my formula. No negligence. Whatever he advises, that is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's good if you can try and make the cough come out, that mucus. You have to give a little extra exertion, I think, to get it out. Is that the bedsore, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (pause) Whoever does this medicine with the kavirāja should be intelligent person. That's all I'm saying. As you said to me, "Don't be negligent." Of course, Your Divine Grace knows me very well, so you called me to tell me that I should cooperate. But my cooperation is immediately there when I see someone is intelligent enough to do it. So Bhakti-caru is fit for that.

Prabhupāda: So call him immediately.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Massage on chest for mucus to come out.

Prabhupāda: If the mucus come out, the prana(?) come out. (Bengali)

Kavirāja: (Bengali) Two medicine for cough.

Room Conversation -- October 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He will take the medicine.

Sac-cid-ānanda: If necessary, he will stop one type medicine getting, or again he can try to take. But if Prabhupāda like, he can take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what Prabhupāda just said? (Bengali-Prabhupāda and Kavirāja)

Prabhupāda: The havoc caused, the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Havoc caused by medicine. Prabhupāda says the medicine caused havoc. (Bengali-Kavirāja and Prabhupāda) Couldn't digest it. That's the real issue. He can't even digest the medicine. (Bengali-Prabhupāda and Kavirāja) What we want is to stop the coughing, not an expectorant.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's both. He says can do either one with him. You can take allopathic or kavirāja. He gives both. Whatever the patient likes. Right?

Sac-cid-ānanda: He is making some kavirāja also medicines.

Prabhupāda: His father practices haikin.(?) And the son practices...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Allopathic. I think we're letting ourselves in for trouble when we call these doctors.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: My personal opinion is that when you call these doctors, you're simply letting..., we are simply letting ourselves in for more trouble, because they're not going to study the case very carefully. They're just going to start prescribing. Your case is so delicate that the slightest wrong diagnosis and medicine causes havoc.

Prabhupāda: No, they have good practice.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Although drinking nothing, cough is coming.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cough is again coming.

Prabhupāda: No medicine, no drinking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Swelling is reducing.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not very much reducing. Why you're not drinking anything, Śrīla Prabhupāda? I noticed yesterday you did not drink much.

Prabhupāda: First of all there is no inclination to drink anything.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You have written him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The real problem is the digestion. There's no digestion. Anything you take forms mucus. Instead of forming blood, it forms mucus. You're not as warm as you were yesterday, but you're still a little warm. The rest of your body is not warm. Your head is not so warm. Your pulse is very fast. I don't know what to say, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's certainly bewildering. I can only expect somehow Kṛṣṇa has to do something, unless Dr.Gosh with some Western-type medicine can do something.

Prabhupāda: This oil massage is very pleasing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's pleasing for you and for the masseur also. (break) ...simply have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa for you and read Bhāgavata, take nice care as much as we are able to, and leave the rest to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. At least we're sure that that is the right medicine. That shawl that mother Satyabhāmā made is very nice. It's the first thing that any..., first time that any ISKCON devotee has spun the wool from the sheep. And her letter was also very nice.

Prabhupāda: It is fur purchased from the market? Fur? Wool. Wool.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...the only medicine remains, that yogendra-rasa.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Hari-śauri: You want to try that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Right now? Soak a little rice?

Prabhupāda: Rice water required. So what is the time now?

Hari-śauri: Almost ten past two. Ten minutes past two.

Prabhupāda: So in a small pot just soak rice water, little. And after two hours use that water. Let me.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He was charging five rupees, and because we have gone to him second time, he is charging...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten. Not only ten rupees, but so much money for the medicine.

Prabhupāda: How much?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty-five rupees just for sixteen little packets, doses of medicine. Two days' medicine, fifty-five rupees. Eighty-five rupees for two days' total. No. Seventy-five rupees for two days.

Prabhupāda: We are not hesitating to pay, but this mentality...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, exactly. The point is if that a man has this mentality, then how much can we trust him for medicine? It means he's dishonest man. He's becoming dishonest. Still, some husband must be there, you said. We should have a doctor's help. I still believe that. If possible. After all, we are not doctors.

Prabhupāda: No, we are taking the help of doctor, Āyurveda, by this yogendra-rasa.

Room Conversation Arrival of Jayatirtha and Harikesa -- October 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāt... (SB 10.1.4). This is bhavauṣadhi, hari-kīrtana.

Jayādvaita: Bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt.

Prabhupāda: Ah. And caraṇāmṛta, pāṭha(?)—diet. Diet and medicine. Let me depend on these.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very pure. Pure diet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Transcendental. You're not feeling any discomfort?

Prabhupāda: Same discomfort or same comfort. No change.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you're bathed a little bit now.

Prabhupāda: Hm? You bathed the head? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Your face was bathed and your eyes. Tilaka is put on fresh. You still feel that hair?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You still feel that hair? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This time what they supply?

Visit From Allopathic Doctor -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Doctor: That I'll prescribe. Mahārājajī will be prepared to take some medicine... You like to take some medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good question.

Doctor: If he agrees, I will suggest. I'll put it in a prescription form and explain to you how.

Prabhupāda: Take it.

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: I know one of the medicines had twenty-five percent caffeine.

Dr. Kapoor: Ayurvedic?

Brahmānanda: No. The allopathic.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh. Allopathic. The syrup that was brought.

Brahmānanda: One of them. Upendra was saying.

Dr. Kapoor: Let us stop that today.

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the nature of the conference, how do you like?

Room Conversation -- October 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is real medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that our being here and chanting before you is spreading this movement, because the more we chant, the more love and dependence we develop for you, and that's making us strong in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and therefore our movement is getting stronger. Every day that we stay here, we become stronger in our devotion for you and dependence on you. (pause) I think that I should just tell them to end their meeting now. They're waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I'll come back in a little while and chant. Actually you have to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has built this palace. It's only meant for you. We were seeing pictures of it today. It is so beautiful. It is exactly the place that you want to retire in and translate. And this community of Gītā-nagarī will be just proper place to give direction how to establish nice spiritual community. These two places are very close to each other-New Vrindaban and Gītā-nagarī. They're only three hours away from each other. Two very good communities for showing the example how to spread ideal Vedic life. We were discussing that actually it is not anything new that Kṛṣṇa can make His devotee better, because we were reading before in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta how sometimes Lord Caitanya would bring back to life someone who had even expired. And His associates were able to do that. And there is many cases. I think if we are very determined, then Kṛṣṇa will surely fulfill our desire.

Prabhupāda: Without fail.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Quack. Quack doctor.

Prabhupāda: There is a story. A bridegroom was selected. So, the other party, bride's party, they inquired how the bridegroom was quite qualified. So they said, "He's a doctor." Then they inquired, "What kind of doctor? Doctor of philosophy, doctor of medicine or...?"

Purī Mahārāja: Doctor which way?

Prabhupāda: So he said, "No, no, no. He's not all these nonsense. He's a big doctor." "What is that?" "Conductor." (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's taking some medicines, but he's had fever on and off. He gets it regularly every year. This is the fourth time he got.

Prabhupāda: What medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Quinine, and I think Śrīdhara Swami is arranging some other medicines. There is malaria epidemic in India. In Hyderabad every family, at least one person, has malaria. It's all over India, even in big cities. Bhakti-prema Swami, he also has malaria. Mosquitoes seem to be a very envious creature. Are you liking the massage, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali) (indistinct conversation about medicines, hydrogen peroxide, etc.)

Bali-mardana: The other doctor from Ramakrishna Mission is here. Should he come in?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Ghosh? The other doctor has come.

Dr. Ghosh: Doctor has come?

Bali-mardana: Yes, from Ramakrishna. I'll bring him in?

Dr. Ghosh: Yes, please.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bring another chair.

Dr. Ghosh: (indistinct, talking of Dr. Gopal)

Prabhupāda: I saw you yesterday

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, what doctor says?

Bhavānanda: I was just discussing with them. They've given a, a series of medicines. That one doctor, Dr. Gopal, he said that you have a chronic kidney infection, and they both, Dr. Ghosh and Dr. Gopal, say it is very serious, that if it's not treated, that it could develop into uremia, which could be fatal. So he's given a whole group of medicines. However, the medicines can be combined. They say everything is functioning well, but the kidneys are not. (sic:) Renial, they call it renial infection.

Room Conversation -- October 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Yes, he's still here. So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think that we should... Dr. Ghosh has come all this distance, and he'll get very upset if we don't at least try this course of medicines. I think that we should try and see what happens. It was a lot of medicines, but they can be combined together in one dosage, once in the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening, so it won't be all the time having to take.

Hari-śauri: It can be drunk down with some liquid as well.

Bhavānanda: Yes. You can mix it with fruit juices or...

Prabhupāda: So do it.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were sleeping so much yesterday, and even while you're taking these medicines. In other words, the idea with the allopathic medicine is that it does many good things. So I'm sure Dr. Ghosh could recommend something to help you sleep. (some whispering)

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Ghosh might be able to recommend something to help you sleep.

Prabhupāda: And they will help this, this, this...

Bhavānanda: That's why we thought, Prabhupāda, we could go to the kavirāja, and he would give a mild medicine for helping to induce sleep.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about the other medicines?

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that you get some strength. You were sleeping so much, and you weren't getting any better. The sleeping is necessary, but you shouldn't sacrifice. In order to sleep you should not sacrifice those things which give strength and which take away this disease. You have to get strength, get rid of the disease, and be able to rest nicely. That we have seen, that the kavirāja's medicine is not so effective, neither simply doing without any medicine is so effective. We have not tried allopathic medicine, because within a day or two you always stop it. Whenever you take for one day, then you say, "No more." I think that this... If you want to get better, you have to take some cure. No cure—that is not good. And switching from one thing to the other, that is also not good. Why not follow some series of cure, regular, and stay with it for some time? We're not going to let anything severe be done. That's for sure. And Dr. Ghosh has come very long distance, and this other doctor he is taking the help of is supposed to be very expert doctor. So in such a critical condition, why not take the help? What can be gained by again changing to this Vanamali? Just because there was a little inability for sleep, why should you give up all of the, you know, regimentations which they're prescribing? Just like sometimes...

Prabhupāda: No, they say "You drink this, drink this, drink this."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But Prabhupāda, unless you drink a...

Prabhupāda: No. That's all right, but the drinking forcibly, that is a great botheration.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But, Prabhupāda, one thing is that if you expect to simply naturally feel like doing this or that, how can you expect something..., to feel naturally hungry if you're ill? Unless the disease goes away... Then naturally you'll feel like drinking and eating. Just like you described to us, when a person is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has to force himself to get up early, force himself to chant, force himself to go to ārati. Naturally he doesn't feel like these things in the conditioned stage. So similarly, when one is in a diseased condition, naturally he won't feel like taking the medicine or taking the necessary foodstuffs. But if he doesn't force himself, then he can't get out of that diseased condition.

Prabhupāda: So that condition is finished. I have no stamina to force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You won't let us help you to have that stamina?

Prabhupāda: How you can?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can sit you up physically. We can put the liquid in your mouth. All you have to do is agree to it. Physically it's not... It's not physically so difficult. The main question is the willingness.

Prabhupāda: But when one's physical strength... You...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it would be possible for you to get better, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So which is correct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which is correct? Well, it's obviously a fact... I mean anybody who's gargled with hydrogen peroxide knows that it's very strong. That's the point. It's very strong. In your condition, it's very strong.

Bhavānanda: Dr. Gopal, Śrīla Prabhupāda, he recommended this medicine, and you took this medicine yesterday.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhagatji said Dr. Gopal is his close friend. He can bring him here once a day if necessary.

Bhavānanda: And explain to him that you've had some restless reaction to this medicine and get his opinion and new diagnosis, new medicines, if necessary. And for your liquid intake, if you can take just four glasses of Complan in one day, plus some juice now and then, it won't be so much, so many times you'll have to be bothered. They all recommended that Complan is the very best.

Prabhupāda: Hm? What?

Bhakti-caru: Complan, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a drink, beverage, like Horlicks. I gave it to you last night.

Bhavānanda: Is there some bad effect to it that you feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you take that?

Prabhupāda: Not yet, but when it becomes mucus.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But if I become discomfortable, that will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But that's only temporary, this discomfort. It's only temporarily until one gets better. Medicine is only required until one gets better. Then he can throw out the medicines.

Prabhupāda: Ah. AHHH! Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Now I am feeling don't force.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now that he's not eating or drinking anything and no medicines is...

Bhavānanda: But your urine is cloudy again.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be... If you leave me to my fate, I'll feel comfortable.

Room Conversation -- October 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Oh, yes, yes. And, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if you could just take a little of that medicine. I spoke to Dr. Ghosh, and he said that we'll cut down the amount of the medicine. Bhakti-caru has made it up. Just take a moment to take, and then we can take with the fruit juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that fruit juice fresh?

Bhavānanda: They say yes, it's fresh now. Grape juice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to be covered, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You want to have some covering? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the massage is giving me relief. (sound of mosquito flying)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are applying it with love, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: The mosquitoes, they are warning.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. My...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I like him. He has fine features. He's thoughtful. Nice voice. I mean these kavirājas... The real point is how in this age, how deeply they understand kavirājī medicine, that I can't say. But from general point of view, comparison of doctors, they're the best. They're...

Upendra: More sensitive.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're the most devotional and refined people of the doctors. How much they know kavirājī, that I cannot say. But he's not a bogus man.

Prabhupāda: Viśvambhara? (Bengali)

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, Vanamali is no use.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No use. Don't even bother calling him. The only question is that we have given him such expensive ingredients to make that medicine. The musk is worth many hundreds of rupees. Gold and pearls. So the real question in our minds is if this medicine is genuine. We want to know whether the medicine he has prepared is genuine or not.

Prabhupāda: He said it is not.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Let me hear Hare Kṛṣṇa and peacefully pass away.

Dr. Gopal: But I think I am not making any hindrance in your normal routine. And whatever medicine I am giving you, I will cut it down by fifty percent now.

Prabhupāda: If I can pass in that way, that will be very nice.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Upendra: One hundred and fifty urine. (background conversation) What was that, about?

Dr. Gopal: About half. (discussion about medicine)

Prabhupāda: I am ready to leave(?).

Bhavānanda: No, Dr. Gopal was saying for taking some foodstuff, little bit, one, two, spoonfuls. He said he's going to cut the medicine down to half.

Prabhupāda: What is this?

Dr. Gopal: This is glucose water. No taste?

Prabhupāda: Little taste.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Gopal: No. You want to provoke the sleep? You just take little more liquids, number one. Two: whatever you like, you take. I will reduce your medicine by fifty percent. And don't worry for these loose stools. You are passing everything. Right?

Trivikrama: You want to come back, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You have got any (indistinct). Where is Girirāja?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He went into the city today for picking up the fixed deposit receipts. That was the main thing.

Prabhupāda: City?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Delhi.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Makhara dal?

Prabhupāda: Makara-dhvaja is a Ayurvedic medicine. So this kavirāja was preparing makara-dhvaja.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is that the one with musk in it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, we have that medicine.

Bhavānanda: That we have, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He has prepared it. We have it here.

Prabhupāda: So, why not try it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What did the kavirāja say about it?

Bhavānanda: Er, I'll get Bhakti-caru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You dreamt that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yesterday you were really on fire, lecturing and translating.

Bhavānanda: Bhakti-caru has gone to the kitchen to bring some... But I recall that when we went to see the kavirāja he said... We had showed him your urine when it was muddy, filled with pus. He said he wanted that before this medicine could be given, he wanted to see that your urine had cleared up. But he had prepared the medicine and we have it here.

Prabhupāda: What is the dose?

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Rāmānuja-sampradāya, and he was preparing that medicine, the musk medicine? What is it called?

Bhakti-caru: Makara-dhvaja.

Bhavānanda: He was preparing it. So Prabhupāda has asked about that medicine the kavirāja... What had the kavirāja told us when we went about that medicine?

Bhakti-caru: He said that he didn't want to give the medicine right now because he's too weak for that. So when he gets little strength, when the weather turns a little cold, that would be applicable to him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that the kavirāja is waiting for you to get a little stronger and the weather should be a little colder.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so I have some grape juice here, and a little bit of ice cream. If you could take that now it will help you become strong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can take.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Āpni, immediately come. Immediately come. (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: Ācchā. All right. Consider me as your servant. I'm always ready to serve you. (Bengali) I've never been confined to bed in these long years. (Bengali) I have given medicine to lakhs and lakhs of people, but I myself have never taken any. (Bengali) I am always ready. I am free now, absolutely free, with full energy.

Prabhupāda: Āpnāra life full successful. (Bengali) Āpnāra family life, successful. Āmāra family life, failure

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your spiritual family life...

Dr. Ghosh: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: We started life together. His life, family life, is very successful, and my family life is...

Jayapatākā: So better to have an unsuccessful family life, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and be successful in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: And done big, big business. Eh? Whatever Kṛṣṇa wanted to bring me, so this is work. Anyway... So I was sleeping?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You slept many, many, many hours. How do you feel?

Prabhupāda: Yes, feel good. In the morning part there is sleep. At night there is... Never mind.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of medicine?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean if you don't take the medicine will it... Your question is that "If I stop taking medicine, will I continue to pass urine?" I think so. Medicine was... For some time your urine had become very dark. So the medicine was supposed to clear it up. Now your urine is clear. And, of course, the medicine was also supposed to help you to recover your strength, but that has not happened. At least we cannot see that there's any noticeable change in your strength.

Prabhupāda: Nava-yogendra? The presentation which you have brought may not be required here. Better sell them and engage there.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anything, presentation, for the time being there is no need. Better invest the money there to develop.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wants you to invest whatever... 'Cause he's not eating so much, he says. So better to use the money and invest it in Mombassa for development there. That temple is very good, I think.

Prabhupāda: Kaviraji's medicine was helping stop the passing of...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kaviraji's medicine is what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Helping through medicine passing of urine. Of course, I'll drink, but what is the use of then the allopathic?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, as I explained, the purpose of the allopathic was that during the time when your urine became very dark, we wanted to make it, you know, take away the poisons that were causing the urine to become dark. Now your urine is not dark anymore. That was one main thing. And the other thing was that we were hoping somehow to get you back to more strength, give you more strength by taking away whatever disease was there.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi-Gaura. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu nityānanda, śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. I'll take. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...today, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Maybe the medicines are having some good effect. (break) Today is Vijayotsava.

Pisimā: (Bengali)

Bhavānanda: Utsava.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāma Vijayotsava.

Nava-yogendra: Aj rāma vijaya utsava hai.

Prabhupāda: Hard of hearing. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Chant loudly. (kīrtana gets louder) (break)

Bhavānanda: Very early this morning. (break) Tamāla and all of us have met and thought that "Let us..." Our position is to serve you according to your desire. Since you didn't request any medicines, we felt that we shouldn't try to... From what we've seen, today you've rested very much deep sleep, and the vomitous nausea has disappeared. But you haven't passed very much urine today. One reason is that you were taking that mild dialysis medicine. For the past three days you've been taking medicine to help you pass urine. So usually when you stop taking that medicine, it takes a day or two for the urine function to start naturally again.

Prabhupāda: No medicine.

Bhavānanda: Sorry, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No medicine. What is that medicine?

Bhavānanda: There's no many medicines, but today you haven't taken any. There is medicine for the infection in the kidney. There's medicine for the heart. There's medicine for passing urine. There's medicine for preventing any cough in the lung. There's vitamin supplement.

Prabhupāda: So how many I shall take?

Bhavānanda: That's five different medicines. We felt yesterday that your... When the doctor came you told us that to take so many medicines is disgusting, and that it bothers your brain. And I know that I personally felt that my position is simply to follow your instruction and command as my very life and soul, not to try and force my idea or my feeling onto Your Divine Grace. So we all of us felt that you had given us so many hints.

Prabhupāda: So medicine kīrtana.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Medicine is kīrtana. Enechi auṣadhi māyā. (kīrtana) (break)

Prabhupāda: The sleeping medicine he has given?

Bhavānanda: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's no sleeping medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, Prabhupāda, today you haven't taken any medicine. So Bhavānanda Mahārāja is simply asking whether if you want any medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: On and on.

Prabhupāda: So it is failure. Now take makara-dhvaja, one dose, and leave everything for Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm?

Bhavānanda: Take that medicine and leave everything to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That makara-dhvaja.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So... (Bengali) Rāmānuja-sampradāya kavirāja (Bengali) Doctor treatment, failure.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) I was telling that it worked as far as urine was concerned.

Bhavānanda: We're not sure that that was the result of the medicine or the result of liquid intake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The urine has been clear for five months in a row, so when it got unclear for three days and Prabhupāda wasn't drinking anything, then as soon as he drank it became clear. So I can't conclude that it was the doctor.

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali) (pause)

Prabhupāda: What he has said? Hm?

Bhavānanda: Well, he was stumped as to why you had no appetite, and he said that possibly because you are taking less air in your left lung than in your right lung, there may be some infection in the lung—he said that generally is denoted also by lack of appetite—of some tubercular or pleurisy or pneumatic nature.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: On and on.

Prabhupāda: So it is failure. Now take makara-dhvaja, one dose, and leave everything for Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm?

Bhavānanda: Take that medicine and leave everything to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That makara-dhvaja.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: He didn't prescribe any medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the medicines is that Isotoxin. I asked...

Ādi-keśava: That is a very, very strong drug, very, very strong. It has a very heavy effect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Isotoxin is also called Isonayazid.(?) It's the chemical name. I know that, I discussed with...

Prabhupāda: Then he'll say, "Remove to the hospital."

Bhavānanda: Then they'll say move to the hospital.

Prabhupāda: Then who will take care of me? Hm?

Bhavānanda: We will never allow them to remove you to a hospital, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You'll have to, gradually, according to his advice.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Doctor treatment is finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Taking these strong medicines without eating is very difficult. Many side effects.

Bhavānanda: Yes. Anyway, we gave him chance. Your Divine Grace gave him a fair chance to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually the whole thing only began because Dr. Ghosh came. Actually you didn't want Dr. Ghosh to come, but it was too late. We had already sent Lokanātha. So once Dr. Ghosh came, we were obligated to try these allopathic medicines. It was Dr. Ghosh who brought Dr. Gopal. Otherwise, from your own choice, we would not have, you know... We were obligated because of Dr. Ghosh's coming. Naturally... He came so long, such a distance. From the beginning you always don't like the allopathic. You never like it very much.

Prabhupāda: I'll treat myself. Let the kavirājas come. And makara-dhvaja... One after another, they will make the things complicated. What is your opinion? Hm?

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And stop all medicine. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the real medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The trouble with the allopathic medicine is that they have so much side effects that it might make very uncomfortable to...

Prabhupāda: This is already uncomfortable.

Bhavānanda: I think that this doctor's desire you have seen through. His desire was to remove you from here somehow or other. First to remove you for an x-ray, then...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another trick they have is that you have one trouble, so they give you a medicine, but the medicine causes a worse trouble. And eventually such bad trouble is created that they get you depending on them, and then they say, "Now the only thing left, you must come to the hospital for operation." Then they kill you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, injection, operation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was asking us, "Does your Guruji have any...? Will he take an injection?" So we said, "No." He was hopeless. He was guessing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he didn't know the real cause.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They use machine. Their means of knowing-machine. They do not know.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have many medical friends. They frankly admit that oftentimes they kill the patients in the name of treating. It comes out that it was their own medicine that they gave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recently that Dalmia secretary... What is his name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hita-sarana Sharma.

Prabhupāda: In pathology his prescription was replaced by another.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I said, "Don't delay. So many doctors..." And next morning he came back and said, "The doctor said, 'You are all right, you can go.' "

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was just drunk from liquor.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I had a similar story. It is my own personal experience. In 1974 I came here in India. I got malaria in the United States in summer 1975. Then temperature was very high. I went to the Baptist Hospital in Atlanta. They thought it was a virus, viral infection. They couldn't diagnose. Then they gave some medicine, and then I went. But it started again the following day, and I went to another doctor. He could not diagnose. So they gave me glucose injection, a big bottle, thinking it was a strange viral infection. So about six, seven doctors, they couldn't diagnose for three-four days. Then one day there was a doctor who came from Vietnam, he had some experience in tropical disease. So he thought it might be malarial fever. Then, after that, I was surrounded by many doctors thinking that it was a strange disease before, but they diagnosed... But it was not right. They did all the wrong medicine, thinking it was a viral infection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is no treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply giving. The preparation is the main thing. So therefore let him come and prepare it in our presence. Do you feel that he should come and prepare it in your presence? You want to see him? Or can it be prepared in South and brought by the devotees?

Prabhupāda: No, I have no... If he is reliable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I think if we take the help of this head priest it will be reliable. They can do it right in his presence. Smara-hari is also very good. He does all of the purchasing for Yaśodā-nandana Mahārāja, of whatever they purchase for Deities, whatever they purchase for ceremonies, for Fiji. This Smara-hari does all purchasing, and he also purchases medicines. He's been in India six years now, and he's known to that head priest. So if he can purchase, then he can bring it.

Prabhupāda: Prepare, an experienced...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that some other devotee should go with him.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, there is no explanation. He must be sincere, the kavirāja, and must know how to do it. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On one hand, we didn't want to take Bhakti-caru Mahārāja away from you, because he's serving properly, and this is the best thing. I can see that you also don't want that. So then we can find... It's good if one Indian devotee goes with Smara-hari. But there are others that we can find. No, we can find someone. That's not... You don't have to tax yourself for that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. But this is our idea, that why we should wait here? The longer we wait, the colder the weather becomes. And what advantage do we gain by waiting here? There's no advantage gained. You could say "Well, because if we wait here and I get the medicine immediately, and I start to take the medicine, then I will become stronger." But our feeling is that strength will take time. So just by waiting for two weeks, the strength will not increase so significantly to make traveling less risky. Traveling is risky if we are not careful. If we take great care, then traveling will not be risky.

Prabhupāda: So by plane or train?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By plane or train? Well, I think that... I think train is better.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What treatment?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we were thinking that this Vanamali Prabhu, he has made this medicine. So why not find out what is this medicine from him and you can take that in the meantime. He's made this medicine, Vanamali.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to him, this is makara-dhvaja. I mean, I don't discount that this may be Makara-dhvaja. I am not rejecting it simply on the word of that Rāmānujī kavirāja who was here. Otherwise, then we simply wait for the makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: That we'll do.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we proceed to Māyāpur, and Smara-hari can come back with the medicine to Māyāpur. All right? So we'll make this plan. So then we'll make the arrangements just now, Śrīla Prabhupāda? All right.

Prabhupāda: By plane. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By plane, yes. Three seats for you. (break) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So all GBC left?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All GBC left? Some of them are here. Haṁsadūta is here, Hari-śauri, Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Hari-śauri: Pañca-draviḍa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pañca-draviḍa Swami.

Prabhupāda: So that committee formed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That committee? Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Brahmānanda: They asked that question about what medicine the poor man would take.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What medicine the poor man would take. So he said, "Poor man or rich man, it doesn't matter. The price of it is about forty-eight rupees per tolā, because the gold that is given, it's given back at the end." It's just passed through, the gold. It's not utilized itself. So forty-eight rupees a tolā. This is what he said, very big Marwari kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this Rāmānujī kavirāja was charging five hundred rupees a tolā. And Vanamali, when we gave him gold, he never returned any gold. So... This is the position, cheaters.

Prabhupāda: Vanamali was also.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something. Anyway, before we leave I'm going to speak with Bhagatji. Bhagatji is the one who gave the gold and pearls to Vanamali. So I think Bhagatji will be able to recover it. We'll leave this medicine with Bhagatji, and he can give the medicine to Vanamali and take the money. So Smara-hari will be leaving today, just now. And we've already spoken with Delhi, and they're already going to purchase the airline tickets. Either we will leave Wednesday... Today is Monday. Either we will leave Wednesday or we will leave Friday. We're not going to travel on Thursday. And they've already informed Calcutta and Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Who will go with me?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your Divine Grace, Bhavānanda Mahārāja, myself, Bhakti-caru Mahārāja, Śatadhanya Mahārāja, Upendra Prabhu, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Bharadvāja. That'll be on the plane.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: He has quite a bit of money. And so Ādi-keśava called him up, and he had a kavirāja in the Rāmānuja-sampradāya. And Chandi Das went to see his kavirāja, and his kavirāja had just gotten finished mixing makara-dhvaja medicine. He'd been preparing it for the past ten days. And Śatadhanya Mahārāja and Ādi-keśava were just now going over to see this kavirāja. That Chandi Das has purchased seven tolās of the medicine for Your Divine Grace as a gift. They are going over to pick it up.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Just see. Kṛṣṇa arranges. Just see.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I have got it already.

Bhavānanda: And that kavirāja in Delhi said that no, the gold is absorbed in the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These events are all like a dramatical play, Śrīla Prabhupāda, great drama. It's simply like reading the Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Ebe jaśa ghuṣuk tribhuvana. He has contributed seven tolās? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So now you will get both things, the makara-dhvaja and Māyāpur. Kṛṣṇa was showing you while he was making it, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Prabhupāda was watching him make it. Kṛṣṇa gave him the vision to see.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa, God. He gave me information.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: I have brought the makara-dhvaja from the kavirāja in Delhi. This kavirāja, he's not Rāmānuja-sampradāya, but many people say in Delhi that he's the foremost kavirāja in India. He treats the Prime Minister, Morarji Desai, and all the ministers also. So many people trusted him, and he mixed this medicine... He was mixing it for some other person, but when he heard that you were ill, he gave it to us.

Bhavānanda: What kind of makara-dhvaja?

Śatadhanya: There's different kinds of makara-dhvaja, six kinds. This is the most potent kind. This is called siddha makara-dhvaja. This contains gold and pearl and musk and mica and many other ingredients.

Bhavānanda: And what are the other ingredients you have to take it with?

Śatadhanya: You can take it with either honey or milk. But he recommended that for Prabhupāda's particular condition he take it with honey.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. What did he charge

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That means he's honest. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You met Chandra Swami?

Śatadhanya: No, he's in Madras. This is forty-eight doses, two doses a day. That means this is twenty-four days' medicine makara-dhvaja. Two doses per day.

Prabhupāda: So do it carefully. Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You take care.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Did he say anything about length of time involved for the efficacy of the medicine?

Śatadhanya: No. He just said it's very powerful medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What time should it be taken? Morning and night?

Śatadhanya: Morning and evening.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any particular time in the morning?

Śatadhanya: No.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take some now?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? Huh? Tamāla?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Simply with honey.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Bhavānanda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So, for giving the medicine, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Bhakti-caru in charge. Eh?

Bhavānanda: I think that's good.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Why in spoon? Why not take mortar and pestle?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is making it in the mortar. Should you take it directly on the mortar?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: And also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your suggestion that you wanted to go on parikrama, we also thought, was an indication that you must be feeling a little stronger. In initial stage of taking this medicine it has to take some time before it even can begin to equalize a deteriorating situation, what to speak of making positive gains in strength. The medicine first has to act to stop the deterioration. Even that takes some time. Then, once it's equalized and maintain that, then it will work to build the body. If you're feeling, though, that you're deteriorating condition, then perhaps we shouldn't go on the parikrama this morning.

Prabhupāda: No, parikrama I shall go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? You expected to immediately get some result by taking this makara-dhvaja?

Prabhupāda: I am already puzzled? Mixed-up.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You said you're puzzled, Śrīla Prabhupāda? You said you're puzzled?

Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I am puzzled.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In this condition I do not wish to live.

Pañca-draviḍa: The purpose of this medicine, though, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is to cure the condition.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañca-draviḍa: The purpose of this medicine is to cure this condition and bring you back to good health. It's not to continue in this bad condition but to bring you to a good condition. That is our hope, that you will regain your strength. There is an English saying that "The night is the most dark right before the dawn." So now you are feeling this way. We are hoping that very soon the medicine will take some effect, and then you'll begin to feel stronger.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: It is true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if you lose your desire to remain here, then no medicine can be effective. But if you desire to remain, then the medicine can become effective.

Prabhupāda: No, in this way to remain—not desirable. Every day, crisis.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bring one...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want some more medicine?

Bhavānanda: He wants to see the color. (break)

Prabhupāda: Bruises are here, but this is not? You see there.

Bhavānanda: The bruises? Where are you feeling them most? On your feet, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or your legs?

Prabhupāda: Here.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And what is this?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This mirror?

Prabhupāda: Mirror!?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) No. I was just using this mirror to show you the medicine.

Bharadvāja: Can you see it?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This makara-dhvaja is the rich man's medicine.

Bharadvāja: Is it the same kind of medicine?

Śatadhanya: Similar.

Bharadvāja: The svarṇa-sindhura is also similar in effect, for medicine, as medicine?

Prabhupāda: That I do not know. (break) If I can continue this parikrama, that is spiritual cure.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I'll take little rest. (break) Makara-dhvaja will give strength. So for passing stool, whatever strength I have got, that will...

Bhavānanda: In the beginning, initially, when you start taking this medicine, I would think there would be some reaction within the body to something new like that before the body develops its tolerance. I don't think it's too serious at this point. (aside:) Śrīla Prabhupāda feels all hope is frustrated. The makara-dhvaja medicine is to give strength, but now he's passing stool, so all the strength he has is lost. At the same time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're taking a lot of liquid intake now. There has to be some stool. It's digested. You're taking almost a thousand milliliters a day, 960, 890, like that. So that's quite a large amount.

Bhakti-caru: Another thing is that this is a very strong medicine, and Vanamali Prabhu was hesitant to give it at this point because it was too strong for his...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say stop it.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Passing stool now. Cleanse. Making frustrated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why should you stop taking this medicine, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: What is the use?

Trivikrama: You've only taken it one time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Twice. I don't understand why you say "What is the use?"

Prabhupāda: Use is that I have passed stool.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: Of course, Vanamali, he might have been hesitant to give the medicine because we suspect that his medicine was even bona fide. He might have been avoiding giving it because it wouldn't work to begin with.

Prabhupāda: Bona fide or not bona fide.

Bhavānanda: Still, we all saw some positive signs. Of course, it might not have been from the medicine, but it is... You did appear stronger. You went on parikrama, you sat up.

Prabhupāda: No, parikrama I can... But, I mean to say, from medicinal point of view, it is not at all hopeful.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That I can't see, that conclusion. And I still say that there's a possibility that the effect of the medicine will build up over a day or two. After all, it is not even one full day yet since you first took the medicine. How can we reject it so quickly?

Prabhupāda: Because it's reacting differently.

Room Conversation -- October 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: Bharadvāja Prabhu was just telling me that he's noticed-he's been massaging your legs—that your legs and feet are warmer today than they were yesterday. I have noticed over the past three or four days that your feet have been cold. Extremities, your hands and your feet, have been very cold. Now that's a sign of strength. We feel that the change from the makara-dhvaja is going to be subtle, not so swift in terms of renewed vigor. Even allopathic medicine... You took so much allopathic medicine, and you took that even more than you're willing to take this Ayurvedic medicine. That you took for three days. This you haven't even taken one full day. Of course, we're not placing all of our hopes on the medicine as such. We've been placing all of our prayers at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the only hope. All hopes fail.

Bhavānanda: But then Kṛṣṇa did direct you within that dream to take this medicine. Just try one more day. If all hope is frustrated, then what is the loss if we take that medicine one more day?

Prabhupāda: That medicine take...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, were you hopeful about this medicine when you first took it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I thought it will give strength, but instead of strength, I am passing stool, so whatever strength is there... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pañca-draviḍa: This is the chapter "Description of the Rāsa Dance." (break)

Prabhupāda: It will be bhavauṣadhi. So there is no other... I shall ask, whenever I require it, fruit juice. That is my food, and this kīrtana is my medicine. And parikrama. Settle up this.

Śatadhanya: Fruit juice, kīrtana, and parikrama.

Prabhupāda: Believe in Kṛṣṇa. Hm. I am hearing kīrtana how very nice here. It is stated in the śāstra, nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano... (SB 10.1.4). This is the medicine, panacea for material disease. So kindly let me hear kīrtana as far as possible, long as I live. Eh? That is all right?

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda. Yes, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: I'm thirsty. Fruit juice?

Śatadhanya: Would you like some fruit juice now, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I cooked some boiled rice, boiled it for a long time, and some plantain. (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good for stopping diarrhea. I think you should take some, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Instead of taking the medicine, take a little of this prasādam. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: All right, I'll try to take.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I'll try.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. And we won't give any medicine tonight. Tomorrow morning we're giving it. Okay?

Bhakti-caru: Even the swelling is down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Svarūpa Dāmodara brought an article from The Statesman about the news of the conference that was held here in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Statesman carried an article.

Prabhupāda: Oh, really?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was printed in The Statesman.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to hear it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I think you have to cleanse my...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. First we'll cleanse, then we'll sit Prabhupāda up. (break) For one thing, just like this prasādam that Bhakti-caru Mahārāja prepared is good for stopping... It's against passing stool. It will make a binding effect. That's why I thought you might appreciate it. Bhakti-caru made it especially because of that. It's like medicine. But nice-tasting medicine. You could try.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can try.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Stop the medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda suggests that he stops the medicine for one day, so...

Śatadhanya: See the effect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I'm also going to Delhi in the morning, so Śrīla Prabhupāda... (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with your suggestion, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kavirāja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. Haṁsadūta... I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupāda is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?

Prabhupāda: Whatever little blood is there.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: I think it's a mistake, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to take this strong medicine without having the kavirāja actually come and diagnose himself and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śatadhanya: Actually the kavirāja said to me that he never prescribes medicine without first seeing the patient.

Prabhupāda: So bring him. And stop medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I think that's the right idea. This is not right, passing stool like this. This passing stool so many times is not right. It means that the medicine is not taking properly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some reaction is happening.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Definitely it's a reaction.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Five times. That's a lot.

Prabhupāda: Local kavirāja also said it will be very strong now.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, seeing the pill, what to see?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may be able to recognize it has one of the types of makara-dhvaja. The main point is that Vanamali said it's makara-dhvaja. So by showing, he may be able to recognize, "Yes, this appears to be." At least we can get his opinion. Because that other kavirāja, that Rāmānujī, threw some doubt on Vanamali's medicine, saying "This is not makara-dhvaja." So we're having some doubt and about it and Vanamali. If by seeing, this man would say, "Yes, this is one of the ways it's made. It does appear like this," then that would restore...

Prabhupāda: No, he is coming. If he is coming, he can say here.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: But you did say Kṛṣṇa advised you through this dream to take that medicine.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: You said that Kṛṣṇa directed you through that dream to take that makara-dhvaja medicine. So there are six different types of makara-dhvaja.

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa directed-Rāmānuja Vaiṣṇava.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla Kṛṣṇa told me that Jayapatākā Mahārāja had called him and said that they have arranged for one Rāmānujī kavirāja there in Bengal side, and everything was ready if you can come there. Can you bring him here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. He's not going to come.

Bhavānanda: They have their medicines and everything there.

Prabhupāda: He has?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's arranged for Rāmānuja kavirāja, Jayapatākā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Bengal side, Calcutta side, Māyāpur. Māyāpur, Calcutta, but he's there.

Bhavānanda: He wears Rāmānuja tilaka, he's got good recommendation from L. M. Bangor.

Trivikrama: But how can Prabhupāda travel?

Devotee: But Prabhupāda cannot travel, because any movement will disturb his kidney.

Prabhupāda: He cannot come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it will be the same as the man from Delhi.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I mean the point is you would have to go there. See, they want to see you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually this is not the... You know, generally a kavirāja wants to see the person that he's giving the medicine to so he can know...

Prabhupāda: So if he agrees to take up the case, I'll go.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In the meantime, all medicine stopped. Hm?

Bhavānanda: There's no loss in stopping the medicine at this point, because this medicine is not improving your condition.

Prabhupāda: No.

Bhavānanda: We want some positive improvement.

Prabhupāda: If in the meantime I die without medicine, so I am dying. What is wrong? The parikrama may go on.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about eating or taking liquids?

Prabhupāda: Liquid, from practical suggestion, I'll take little vegetable juice, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And fruit juice also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: No loss in taking fruit juice. When you were not taking the medicine a few days back, you were taking fruit juice every day and not passing stool. When you were in Delhi and Prabhupāda was taking fruit juice every day, he was not passing stool. So there's no loss. We can take vegetable juice, fruit juice, vegetable broth. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...reacting adversely. That is proved. Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it seems so.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's two days that we started this medicine.

Prabhupāda: And jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. It is acting adversely. If still I take, then, knowingly...

Trivikrama: Drinking poison.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we shouldn't consult with this kavirāja anyway? Because this is his medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, consulting... When we want direct treatment, how you can consult him?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We can at least tell the report. We can at least inform him that after taking this medicine we have such-and-such symptoms, so...

Bhavānanda: Still, that's fourth-hand information. And he's not a Rāmānuja sampradāya. The only reason we were looking... We were looking for makara-dhvaja... (end)

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply, one after another, frustration.(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. First we had that Madhva..., not Madhva. Rāmānujī came from Śrī Raṅgajī temple, and he seemed to be a cheater. Then this one... We got this medicine from that śakta-kavirāja, and that medicine turned out to be poison. And now this kavirāja who's supposed to be coming from Calcutta, it's become a mystery where he is. The temple was called, and they said that they've left. They called twice to Calcutta, and they said they've left, and yet he's not here. I don't know what to make of it. Very puzzling situation. I think that if by tomorrow noon they have not arrived, then Śatadhanya can go to Calcutta to bring them. If they're going to arrive, they'd arrive by tomorrow noon.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, at the latest.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the latest absolutely. I mean, to me, for them to arrive by tomorrow noon is not... From the very beginning I would not have felt it was out of the ordinary.

Prabhupāda: They said they have left!

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Well, one thing we could say in favor of the kavirāja delay in coming is that if he had come, then he might have given some medicine right away. But this way, your body has been given a chance to rest from that other thing that you had taken. By not taking medicine for two days now, it's good. It's made... The body will become a little more regular. If he had come, naturally he would have wanted to immediately prescribe some medicine. This is not bad, to give the body a rest after such strong medicine. How much did Prabhupāda drink today? The stool-passing has stopped?

Bhakti-caru: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Better that you don't drink any more tonight, Śrīla Prabhupāda, except a little bit of miśri-jala or some little bit. Then by tomorrow you should be more normal again. Anyway, our activities are going on—parikrama, kīrtana, Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Can I go to Calcutta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I still feel a little confident that we could take you there, but... I mean just like we carry you in the palanquin and you don't have any difficulty, so airplane is like a big palanquin. I mean, you know, there's so many of us, eight or ten of us. I can't see that there could be any difficulty. Of course, I still think the kavirāja is going to come. I have faith in Śatadhanya Mahārāja. I think this is simply Kṛṣṇa's test for him. I think the kavirāja will come. The nicest thing will be if the kavirāja treats you for some days, and you get some benefit, and then he takes you...

Prabhupāda: (?) Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: And tell him that Prabhupāda took allopathic medicine last week. He asked for information.

Bhakti-caru: Let him see it first. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Who has come with him?

Śatadhanya: This is Adri-dhāraṇa dāsa, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I told you about him, that he's collecting very big in Calcutta, making many members. So he has come with the kavirāja personally.

Prabhupāda: He belongs to which province?

Adri-dhāraṇa: I was born in Bombay, but my parents are from Sindh.

Room Conversation -- October 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Means there will be stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That was only when you were taking that medicine.

Prabhupāda: Now the bowel is loose, whatever I will take, it will go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. You can feel that it's still loose. How long will it remain like that?

Prabhupāda: How can I say?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. You can feel that it's loose. That's different. Isn't there some... I know that like sometimes if I have this problem, there's certain things that one can take which make it, the bowel tightened up. Like I know I would take sometimes rice and plantain. It wouldn't have a good effect?

Prabhupāda: Rice I cannot touch even. If I hear about rice, any solid food, immediately...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Vomiting tendency. Hm. Then fasting?

Prabhupāda: What can be done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The bowels should become tighter after a day or two. It shouldn't remain loose for so many days. I mean, surely it must get tighter. The medicine caused it to become like this.

Prabhupāda: So he's taking the certificate?

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Śatadhanya: He was mixing medicines a little while ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would you like to see him, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, not necessary.

Room Conversation -- October 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Stool? No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So that problem has cleared up. It was that medicine. That medicine, that makara-dhvaja.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is it that Prabhupāda has no thirst?

Bhakti-caru: (asks kavirāja in Hindi) He says it's not good to have too much thirst. It's better in this condition. He's not eating anything. To have the thirst is a kind of disease when the bile secretion increases.

Kavirāja: No wind. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: The assistant? Somebody is appointed assistant.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: All right. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you feel that this kavirāja's medicine is affecting, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Can you feel a change or...

Prabhupāda: Yesterday I felt some. But this massage is always...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Massage is always welcome. Perhaps this might be a nice time to call Jayādvaita and Pradyumna. Do you feel like speaking and hearing about Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Adri-dhāraṇa: Today he's going to go six hours himself and wait for the medicine to be prepared.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to prepare it, I think.

Adri-dhāraṇa: He's going to go and sit and watch it being prepared, six hours, so no mistake is made.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Adri-dhāraṇa Prabhu says that today the kavirāja is going to Mathurā, and he will sit six hours watching the medicine being distilled. He's personally going to watch to see so that there's absolutely no mistake made. This is required.

Bhavānanda: This man is competent.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I may not be an expert judge, but I have never seen, in my opinion, anyone who seemed to be this good.

Prabhupāda: No, if we have program to go to Māyāpur, he has got that distilled medicine in his dispensary.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We can hold him because, no doubt about it, the few extra days we gain will give you a little added strength. The main thing is that you should be feeling some positive effect from his treatments, because ultimately that is the real deciding factor. Our opinion of him.... He may be very nice looking, but if the medicine works, that is what counts.

Bhavānanda: Of course, we don't know, but we're all feeling that you're feeling some effect. You told me the other night.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation With Sri Narayana and Rama-Krsna Bajaj -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Kavirāja: (Hindi) (Prabhupāda drinks medicine)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is for the kidneys?

Kavirāja: (Hindi) Vṛkka-sañjīvanī. (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Vṛkka. V-ṛ-k-k-a. Kidney. The Sanskrit name for kidney is vṛkka. Araka(?) means extract, and sañjīva...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does that mean? Extractive.

Bhakti-caru: Yes. Extract, to revitalize the kidney. No, our medicine for revitalizing the kidney.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like a little soft kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: No. Now let me take rest.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He talks a lot. Of course Marwaris always talk a lot. He's a Marwari so they always talk like that. We'll have to see how his medicine works Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's no way to tell. We are always getting fooled. The first impression simply by seeing is very difficult in this age, I would rather...

Prabhupāda: No, this is the last we have tried. So let us follow him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh yeah, definitely we should try his medicines.

Prabhupāda: Adri?

Adri-dharaṇa: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, what is that? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: You give him some hint. He was going to talk and you stopped him.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least for a few days he should stay here and see how the medicine is working.

Prabhupāda: Hm, first of all let him make chart.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was guessing but he gave the recommendation for a strong anti-tubercular medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, no, therefore I am not going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally a failure for you. There's no question of going back to them in any case.

Prabhupāda: He has already concluded something and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And strong medicine he prescribed.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would have created havoc with his testing.

Prabhupāda: I am not going to die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, if after all he wants to go, why not leave earlier?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because the whole idea of going is that the medicine is supposed to be having effect. So the longer we have for the medicine to take effect, the stronger you should become. And the stronger you become, the easier will be the journey. It would only be a question of one or two days extra, because in any case he'll want to leave after a few days. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some rest, backside, I can sit down.

Page Title:Medicine (Conversations - October, 1977)
Compiler:Rishab, Mayapur
Created:18 of May, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=95, Let=0
No. of Quotes:95