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Mathematics (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Caller: Yes, that's what I wanted to know. I think there is a comparison, not between organized religion as such, but just getting down to the bare facts of what Jesus spoke about. I think there's a similarity.

Prabhupāda: There is similarity, but one thing is, just like mathematics taught in the lower class. Two plus two equal to four is equally applicable in higher mathematics, two plus two equal to four. In higher mathematics it does not become two plus two equal to five. Similarly, the teachings of Bible or teachings of Bhagavad-gītā are the same, the same "two plus two."

Caller: Right, right...

Prabhupāda: But in the Bhagavad-gītā, it may be taken as higher mathematics. That's all.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: This material creation, material manifestation is compared with a banyan tree whose root is upward. And that I have explained several times how the tree can be upwards root. That means it is reflection. Just like you stand on the riverside, the tree will be reflected on the river, on the water, as obverted. That means that is reflection. As soon as we say that this is a tree, the root of which is up, that means it is reflection. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they do not take account of the mathematical calculation, 380 degree. They are taking account of... 360 degree, the whole circle. They are taking account only 180 degree.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā and Vedic literature. Simply one has to learn. Just like in arithmetic. There is all mathematical calculation, addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, this or that, fraction. One has to learn. So Bhagavad-gītā is so nice book and it is accepted. Not that because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are advocating for Bhagavad... No. It is accepted by scholarly section, religious section, not only in India, but all over the world. Perhaps you know. In every country there are thousands of Bhagavad-gītā translation, in every language, in English, in French, in German, all languages.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Guest (1): He was politician. He was a mathematician.

Prabhupāda: He was very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, rigid brāhmaṇa. That's all.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So we say that you follow any religious path. That doesn't matter. We want to see whether you are lover of God. That is our propaganda. And if one is serious about loving God, it doesn't matter in which way he'll develop that dormant love. It doesn't matter. Just like one, a person wants to be a very nice student of mathematics. It doesn't matter from which university he takes the degree. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can go. Just like students are coming from one country to another, one country to another. Because his aim is education.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: In Geometry they say the point has no length nor breadth. But that is not fact. The point has length and breadth but you cannot measure it.

Dr. Weir: Ah, but the mathematician would say that that isn't the definition of a point is something that has no breadth or depth, but his purpose is working out his philosophy.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: They have got already everything written there. The astronomy, everything is written there; simply you have to calculate. Astrology, we say simply mathematical calculation. If the moon is in this position and the other stars is in this position, the effect will be like this and the result will be like this. Like that. So you haven't got to make search or research. It is already there. Similarly, this Darwin's theory is there in two lines. (Sanskrit) Asati, asati means eighty. Catura means four, eighty and four lakṣāṇi, lakhs, 400,000. Eighty-four hundred thousand, that means eighty million, four hundred thousand. (Sanskrit) Jīva means living entity; jāti means species. Jīva-jātiṣu, brahmadbhiḥ.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The astronomers and the cosmologists, they define the universe in three definitions. And according to their own..., they say the visible space, the universe, they say this is their laboratory for their research to find out the unlimited expanding universe. So this is their laboratory for their... So they call..., this is called observable universe, the universe that can be observed and perceived by instruments. Then another definition of universe they call unlimited. That includes the observable plus everything that is not observable. And the third aspect they call physical universe. That means this universe can be studied by physical laws, mathematics, physics. So they call these are physical universe. So based on these...

Prabhupāda: So how they can say beyond this universe there is no other?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They cannot say that. They still say that there is unlimited aspects that increase for the visible as well as...

Prabhupāda: Invisible.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: They think that that which they can't perceive they can understand by mathematical laws and physical laws. They just discovered about the laws.

Prabhupāda: But there are so many laws, infinitum. The divisions, (indistinct) infinitum.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, all physical laws are discovered by mathematics. Beyond our imagination.

Prabhupāda: Just like in our childhood we were thinking a gramophone machine, how it can speak without a man? There must be a man within.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (indistinct) beyond the sky there is another sky (indistinct) and we are trying to go there according to the perfect knowledge (indistinct). (break) ...of knowledge is misunderstanding, so how they can get perfect knowledge? If you begin from mistake, misconception, then where is your perfect knowledge? The beginning is this body. Beyond this body, they have no knowledge. Their rascal knowledge..., this rascal knowledge, how they can help you? Anything, suppose any mathematical calculation, if the beginning is wrong, then how you will come to the right conclusion? What do you think?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: So if you kindly avoid this misleading interpretation, and if you take Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then you get the science of God, science of religion, which is applicable either to Indonesian or Indian or African or American, everyone. The science is appreciated everywhere. Two plus two equal to four, this mathematical science is applicable everywhere. It doesn't matter whether one is a Christian or Hindu or Muslim. Similarly, Bhagavad-gītā is the science of religion, science of God. So if you take this book seriously, and try to spread this knowledge among your countrymen, I think you'll be very much benefited. And it can be... We are preaching that. We are the, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is meant for one God, one scripture, one mantra, like that, for all people of the world. And we are happy that people are accepting it in that way, very nicely. And it is very easy. It is very easy.

Room Conversation with Indonesian Scholar -- February 27, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of Hindu, Muslim. Any intelligent man will take it. Suppose if you want to be a great mathematician does it mean that you must be a Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan?

Scholar: But by using threads, attributes of Hindu religion...

Prabhupāda: No, actually... Hindu, the word is not to be found in our Vedic scripture. It is the name given by the Mohammedans. So that is going on. Actually it is called varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas, four āśrama. The four varṇas, the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. And four āśramas-brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Combined together it is called varṇāśrama.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Thread. Thread sometimes missing. In some stock of thread, you are missing where it begins. So you have to find out. As soon as you find out, the whole thread is open. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it like in mathematics, in chemistry, like they call formulas?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Just like symbolic: CH, square root, like that.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Western mind... I, I do not find any difference between western mind and eastern mind. Because so many western mind is changed. Yes. So there was no difficulty. Two, two plus two equal to four is to be understood by the western mind and the eastern mind. You cannot say, because you are western mind, you'll say, "No, two plus two equal to five." You cannot say that. So there may be some influence of the culture, but that is superficial. When you speak the real truth, science, that is equally applicable to the western mind and eastern mind. There is no difference. If you speak the real truth... Two plus two equal to four, mathematical calculation, nobody will deny, either western mind or eastern mind. Yes. So he must be reasonable. That's all.

Room Conversation with Anna Conan Doyle, daughter-in-law of famous author, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No. Yes. That is natural. Only the strong devotees, they don't like. "No, I don't want to see anything. I want to go immediately to Kṛṣṇa." That is strong devotion. Because they are after, mad after seeing Kṛṣṇa. Yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. For them, the whole universe is vacant for want of Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you love somebody, if he's not seen, you see, in spite of so many cars, you see the whole city of Paris, void, void. You don't give you any pleasure. A strong love for Kṛṣṇa. Śūnyāyitam. Śūnyāyitam means everything vacant. Without seeing Kṛṣṇa, everything is vacant. What is the value of this house or this city? He doesn't take. So higher planetary system means better standard of life. Just like if Indian comes here, materially, they see the higher standard of life in Paris, in London. But because we are interested in Kṛṣṇa, we do not take very much care of this higher standard of life. So higher planetary system means many, many thousand times better standard of life. Many, many thousand times. Just like Brahmaloka, the one day of Brahmā, described, you cannot even calculate mathematically. Just find out: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). This is the topmost planetary system, Brahmaloka, and the duration of life in Brahmaloka is described in the Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā. Sahasra... S-A-H. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Nothing else. Later on, little geometry, geography, mathematics. They're not meant for outside work. They're meant for as soon as they learn Sanskrit and English, they'll read these books.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just dealing with earth, water, air, fire, sky. That's all.

Guest: And in this time, modern science, you know, physics, chemistry, mathematics; is this all materialism?

Prabhupāda: All materialism.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Guest: But one ocean is not the same as another eh? My business is mathematics. It's not very transcendental.

Prabhupāda: You are teacher?

Guest: No, not anymore. It's not very transcendental.

Śrutakīrti: He's asking if his business is transcendental.

Prabhupāda: No, if it is used for Kṛṣṇa, then it is transcendental. If it is used for your sense gratification, then it is material. That is the difference.

Guest: Yes. And how do you know whether you're using it for Kṛṣṇa or not?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That requires training from the Kṛṣṇa's representative, guru. Just like these boys are being trained up in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So it requires little training. Just like you are mathematician. To make another student mathematician, you have to train him. You have to teach him how to calculate two plus two equal to four. It will never be five. If somebody says, "No, my calculation is two plus two equal to five." Will it be accepted?

Guest: I'm afraid sometimes it can be true.

Room Conversation -- September 1, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: One plus one can equal three sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Is there mathematical calculation?

Guest: I know that it's ah... I mean things reproduce. Life is not so fixed, not so rigid. But one does have to be trained, it's true. Training is, some people can understand and some people cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: That is difference of understanding.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, logic cannot. But still as much logic you require, that logic is there.

Guest (2): Yes, but I don't know what Mr. Howard wants logic about, I don't know. But logic cannot explain anything and everything. And if mathematics or arithmetic, if we go through them, at one stage we can prove ten is equal to zero or nine is equal to zero. It is also possible by step by step...

Prabhupāda: That may be possible, but it has no practical use. It has no practical use. If the banker gives you zero and you accept nine, then it is practical. But if you theoretically say all these things, that you may keep it in your pocket, but practically it has no use. Nine equal to zero and two equal to zero. That is not practical use.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then that is your mistake. In the laws of nature there is no mistake. There is no mistake. Your mistake. Just like in the railway carriage there is first-class, second-class, third-class. So you have purchased third-class ticket. By mistake, you can go to the first-class and just give him, but you will not be allowed to stay there. So it is your mistake. But these first-class, second-class, third..., that is not a mistake. That is arrangement. Similarly, these varieties... God is so clever that He knows that so many mistakes can be done, and so many varieties are there. As you commit mistake, you enter... "You come here. It is ready." And it is very exact mathematically calculated. Because the nature is working in three modes, so you mix up these three modes, it becomes three into three equal nine, and again you multiply nine into nine, equal to eighty-one. Again eighty-one into eighty-one.

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no. I have already said there is an idea that even in the insignificant material element we find this, that one is lost, another's grown. (break) So when the Supreme Absolute Truth is there, how much potency? That is explained in the Vedas. Pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). This is the idea of the Absolute. You take the complete from the complete, still it is complete.

Yaśomatīnandana: They are so foolish that they have accepted an entity called infinity for the material purposes, from mathematics and everything, and they know that they are limited, but they will not accept that that can be a living entity which is infinite. They can accept that there's a new number called infinity, but they can't understand that there can be a living entity which is infinite too.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That number is matter. Living entity is always superior. So if in the inferior quality, matter, it is possible, how much it is possible in the superior quality.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Gap of understanding because the basic principle is wrong, because everyone is fool. And they are trying to understand things with their foolish background. There is the wrong. They are trying to be advanced in knowledge on the foolish background. They do not accept that, that they are foolish rascals. And they are trying to advance in knowledge, active-foolish, fourth class men. Their background is wrong. No scientist, no politician, no philosophers, at the present moment, believe in this, that there is soul, and the soul is transmigrating from one body... Nobody believes it. So their whole background is foolish. So their so-called advancement must be all foolish. They're all fools, rascals, animals. An animal does not know that there is soul and the soul is transmigrating from one body to another. This is animal conception. You cannot teach these pigeons that "You are spirit soul. Your body's different from you." They will, they have no power to understand. So if a human being cannot understand, what is the difference between these pigeons and cats and dogs and him? Then basic principle is wrong. Just like in mathematical calculation, if at one point you have mistaken, then will that be correct ever? It will go on, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking, mistaking.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that is their mathematical equation, where these elements fall very uniformly, the law, the natural law, the physical law.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already there, we know. What is the new discovery?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So then, putting this physical law then, it fits everything.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Equation.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this, this whole material world is going on under physical law. That is called guṇamayī. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Everything is going on... It is exactly... Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. So it is... Just like the sun is also rotating in its orbit, sixteen thousand miles per second, but it has got a fixed time, how long it will rotate by the order of the Supreme. This is physical law. And when, when He wants, everything will withdraw. All physical, finished.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no, every common man he says "I got my mathematics." Will he be accepted?

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So why these things should be allowed? That is our proposition. Every man will say, "No, I've got my own mathematics." Will he be allowed? So we have to fight, otherwise what is the meaning of preaching?

Hṛdayānanda: Fight.

Prabhupāda: If you think that everything will be accepted very easily, then what is the necessity of preaching?

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: And propaganda.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then again, "going to prove." They cannot prove, they'll not not admit it.

Sujit: See, astrology, I think, what he said is half true. Astrology is a science but it is not an exact science like mathematics and chemistry.

Prabhupāda: No, No, it is mathematics. Astrology is simply based on mathematics. Exactly.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He cannot say what happened yesterday, and he's speaking fifty thousand years. Is there a statement in any śāstra or his own statement?

Karandhara: No, that's by mathematical calculation of the trajectory and speed.

Prabhupāda: Oh, mathematics...

Karandhara: It's going at a certain speed in a certain orbit. So they calculate that it would complete that orbit once every fifty to two hundred thousand years.

Prabhupāda: That is there in astrology, astronomy. That is not discovery.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a theory, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Not theory. It's a fact, that if some number is raised to the power zero, that becomes one. In mathematics.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I am speaking that you combine millions of zeroes. That will never become one. That I am speaking. Zero is zero. Zero plus zero equal to zero. Zero minus zero equal to zero. Zero multiplied zero, zero. Zero divided by zero, zero. That's all. Where you get...? And by the side of zero, if you bring one, eko brahma, immediately it will become ten. And add another zero, immediately hundred, ten times increased. That one must be there, one God. Then zero increases value. Similarly, this material world is zero, but if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is valuable. Then it is valuable.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, in this varṇāśrama college, is it true that there will be no need, for example, for teaching material history and mathematics and...?

Prabhupāda: No, there is no need. History, we simply read Mahābhārata, history of the great men, Pāṇḍavas, how they were fighting for the good cause, how they were reigning. That history. Not this rascal history. If you study that history millions of years, what is that history and what you'll learn from that history? You learn history of the really great men, how they worked, how they ruled. That is a... You study history of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, inquiring submissively. Not that challenging. If one challenges to inquire, he'll never be benefited.

Dr. Patel: That is how... Even we have seen inquiring so intelligently. That man was such a big mathematical genius... (break)

Prabhupāda: Knowledge cannot be acquired by challenge. Knowledge is acquired by submission. That is the process.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughing) So sometimes... Just like a child does not want to go to school. So the teacher says, "No, no, you don't require to go to... There is no need. But what do you see in your front?" "That's a cow." "Now, what is this?" "A leg." "Then what is next?" "Second leg." "What is this?" "Third leg." So he is teaching mathematics, but practically, he says, "You don't require go to school. You just count the legs of the cow, that's all." It is like that.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Lord Jesus Christ, he was Vaiṣṇava. He directly gave you the idea of personal God. The personal God is the origin. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The... Just like, the same example: the sun god, the sun planet and sunshine, they are one. They are not different. But still, this is impersonal, that is localized, and within the sun globe, there is the sun god. So sun god is the origin of this light. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the origin of everything. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvam (BG 10.8). That's the fact. But people with poor fund of knowledge they cannot understand it. Therefore stop... (break) ...light, that's all. So much. Just like Lord Buddha. He did not explain anything about God. He said, "Just obey me and stop this animal killing." Therefore this much sufficient for him, that's all. The lower class students, one plus two equal to three, two plus two..., that much mathematics, not higher mathematics. Higher mathematics is not possible to understand.

Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.

Prabhupāda: That's it. But there is higher mathematics. Not one plus two or two plus three, no. There is still higher mathematics.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes, but one who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's all right. Teach him Sanskrit and English and let him read our books. Then perfect knowledge. He doesn't require to go to school. And so far mathematics and history concerned, everyone knows. Two plus two equal to four. It doesn't require much education. Even illiterate man who has never gone to school, he can also count. Eh? "How much money you are giving me?" He doesn't want to be cheated. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Rāma... So the fact is God cannot be unknown. If you are actually serious to know God, God can be known. This is no argument, that "God cannot be known."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Religion cannot be many; religion is one. If anyone says there are many religions, that, he does not know what is religion. Just like science: two plus two is equal to four. It is equally applicable everywhere. You cannot say that "To the Christian two plus two equal to five," the "Christian science" or "Christian mathematics." That you cannot say. Science and mathematics is the same everywhere. If God is one, therefore knowledge of God should be one. There cannot be two.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the greatness of Buddha. Because his followers were imperfect, he could not say more than what they could understand. Therefore he said that "I am imperfect." His mission was to stop animal killing. But people are very much accustomed to animal killing, so he did not say higher things that they could not understand. For them, if they could stop animal killing, that was perfection. For primary student, if he understands the mathematics, two plus two equal to four, that is his perfection. That does not mean there is no higher mathematics. Give them prasāda. Wait, wait. Bring it. Wait, wait little minute. (break) ...otherwise one cannot understand spiritual matter.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: ...the movement who previously had been expert in mathematics, how could he use that for Kṛṣṇa's service if he's expert in mathematics?

Prabhupāda: Mathematics? So you can calculate, "After so many years the whole universe will be destroyed." (laughter) Not of the universe but everyone's life. This body will be destroyed. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). And again you get another body. It will stay for so many years. Again you annihilate. Again you get. In this way eternal time is being wasted.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Because they will not get sufficient food, shelter, bodily necessities. Just like it is already declining, already declining. Just formerly in our childhood we saw the Western people very tall. Now they are not tall. They are decreasing already. (break) In the Western countries, still there are some but in other countries they are very lean, thin and drawn. Stature of the body will decrease. Memory will decrease. It is already taking place. So in this way, you just imagine, in 400,000 years after, what will be the condition. You take mathematical calculation.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So Richard Prabhu is going to write a topic, a chapter, that mathematical proof of the idea that chance comes into play, that...

Prabhupāda: Your mathematics is also imperfect because you are imperfect. You are imperfect. There is nothing chance. There must be cause. You do not know the cause. You cannot find out. You are taking a loophole, chance. Then why you are making so many scientific research? Chance, let it happen, everything, by chance. Then what is the use of your scientific research? Let everything happen by chance. There is no chance.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This will be tentatively planned to write by me and the second chapter is "The Eternality of the Living." That's also by me. And the third chapter is called "A Look at the Natural Laws Regarding the Origin of Life and Matter." In this there are different sections. First section is quantum mechanical demonstration that will be written by Jad (?) Prabhu, he's a mathematician.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And the second part of it...

Prabhupāda: That theory, mathematics, you presented...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, this is...

Prabhupāda: His.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: So it is very nice. You have dedicated to Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The second one is "Order Cannot Arise from Disorder." This will be based on mathematical arguments.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also Jad Prabhu's (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And third one is "The Statistical Disproof of Darwin's Theory." This is on advanced mathematics. That also Richard Prabhu's duty.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: This I want. You are nicely educated. Now by dint of your education, you prove that background is Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Then your education will be perfect. Otherwise you are one of these fools and rascals, that's all. The particular type of education, mathematics, chemistry, physics, what you have learned after working so hard, now you should by your educational-departmental education—you prove that the background is Kṛṣṇa. Then your education is perfect.

Room Conversation -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, if science is really science, that is helpful. If science is based on wrong theory, then what is the use of that. Everything is wrong. So many mathematical calculation, if there is any item wrong, then whole thing is wrong.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is not good. But so far we are concerned, we say there is no difference between oṁkāra and Kṛṣṇa. Other systems, Christianism or Buddhism or Mohamedanism, they have got one book, Koran, Bible, or... What is the Buddhist scripture? One book. And we have got so many, dealing with the same subject matter. So which is better? Higher mathematics, or two plus two? They should understand the gravity of this movement, my presentation of books. They haven't got so many books. Two thousand years past, the Christian religion has got only one book, Bible. And their only pastime of Christ is crucifixion. There is the cross. Therefore it has become hackneyed. People are no more interested. Neither they can explain very nicely. Neither they follow strictly whatever little information they have.

Morning Walk -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: How, one after another, how one is born out of the... That is... How the brāhmaṇas were there, kṣatriyas were there—everything in Vedic... These Vedic mantra means the history of human society. And the origin is God, Kṛṣṇa, Nārāyaṇa. There are other mantras wherein it is stated, eko nārāyaṇa āsīt. "Only Nārāyaṇa was there." Neither Lord Śiva nor Brahmā. Later on, they came. When he first cites the mantra, vande mahā-puruṣa te caraṇāravindam, śiva-viriñci-nutam (SB 11.5.33). Śiva means Lord Śiva, and viriñci means Brahmā. All of them offer respect to Nārāyaṇa. Indian astrology was taken by the Arabians first. The one, two, three, four, five, six, these figures were taken from India, up to nine, then zero. Then you make all mathematical, arithmetical calculation.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now he says, "not the same." You cannot offer reason. You have to take from one source, from the mother. That's all. You cannot take votes, "Can you say who is my father?" He will say this... He'll say, "He is your father." No, it is not the way. The way is to take the information from the right source, not take the votes of rascals and fools. That is not the way. One source. Even from scientific point of view, mathematics, "two plus two equal to four," you have to take from one source. Any mathematician will say like that. Nobody will say, "No, two plus two equal to five." "No, two plus two equal to three." Nobody will say. "Two plus two equal to four," everyone will say. This is not the way of securing knowledge, from here, there... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not approve. And our Kṛṣṇa, He said, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). That is the recommendation.

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Satsvarūpa: They've made some conclusion by their mathematics as to what they can see. Whatever they can't see, it's still more of the same, material sky and planets. There's nothing beyond it.

Prabhupāda: Then seeing and not seeing, the same thing? That is, means you see or not see... Is that mean, that seeing or not seeing? This is contradictory. Either you see or you don't see. These are two things. (laughter) But what is this "I see, I don't see"?

Viṣṇujana: For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. In the history there is no woman who is a big philosopher, a big mathematician, big scientist, big educationist. We don't find. They were all men.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Working, that's all right. You have seen that so many people are dying. That's all right. But I am challenging that you have not seen the next man who does not die. That you cannot answer.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, they find the laws of motion, Newton's laws of motion. They utilize that concept in shooting rockets. And they use exactly some mathematical formula and apply it.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but sometimes the shooting of the rocket missing.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Śiṣyas te 'ha śādhi mā prapannam: "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible. (break)

Devotee: When we were at school we accept a teacher and he teaches us mathematics or something like this, but when it comes to spiritual life and we accept a guru, people criticize by saying, "Oh, you're not thinking for yourself anymore."

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have surrendered. You say, "Yes, we have surrendered. That is the way." Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). The first term is "surrender," praṇipāta. Otherwise it is not possible. If one does not surrender, there is no question of reformation. He must voluntarily surrender: "Yes. Whatever you say, I shall do." Then things can be advanced. Otherwise not possible.

Morning Walk -- October 26, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: And as soon as they remain in darkness—"Yes, we are trying to control the laws. Future, we shall do"—they're nonsense stupid. You become educated scientist, mathematician, very good. But ultimately you accept that the law is given by Kṛṣṇa, or God. Then you are perfect.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be many ways.

Dr. Patel: You see, our sad-darśana. The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the modern science. The Vaiśeṣikas also wanted, were going in search of God by their own way, were they not? The Vaiśeṣika śāstra is nothing but the physics and chemistry and mathematics, in true sense. (Hindi) Sad-darśana. Vaiśeṣika is one of the recognized darśanas of our ancient, glorious past. I think I am not wrong, sir, in that way. You will pardon me if I say, and I mean, press my point further.

Prabhupāda: No, you will say it is in your own way, even if it is wrong.

Morning Walk -- December 24, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa! ( to passerby) (Hindi ) Are you all right?

Dr. Patel: All these sciences, mathematics, chemistry, physics, they have really been advanced by experimentation only. Because we did not know what the truth is behind all these natural phenomena, and we tried to find out the real, how the natural phenomena are, I mean, happening, and that is what the experimentation of the human race was searching out the truth...

Prabhupāda: That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Tattva-jñānārtha-darśana.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In the beginning arithmetic, mathematic, to a child it is difficult. And "One plus two equal to three, two plus two equal to four," in the beginning it may be difficult for a child, but the subject matter is very easy.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: This book is selling very nicely, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. We have printed recent edition, 350,000 copies, that is finished. Again we are going to print 500,000 copies. So it is a great science meant for all human beings, not for the Hindus or the Muslim or the Christian. Science, mathematic, is meant for everyone. So it is spiritual science. Everyone should take advantage of it. Otherwise what was the use of my.... I have not come here to preach Hindu religion. Why you should take Hindu religion? You are already Christian. So what is use of replacing Christian religion to Hindu religion? We have no such distinction. We are not after increasing the number of Hindus; we are after making the human being perfect in knowledge. That is our aim.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: I have heard that mathematics believes by some imaginary thing, minus, so on, like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The absolute numbers?

Prabhupāda: Something minus one, like that. Who is mathematician here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (laughs) Here is our mathematician.

Prabhupāda: All right, so is that the beginning of mathematics?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is the beginning of mathematics?

Sadāpūta: Well, the beginning of mathematics is counting a number. We have that square root of minus one.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I heard. The beginning is minus one. That is imaginary; it is not fact. But they imagine something at the beginning.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. In fact it is called imaginary number. Square root of minus one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if mathematics begins with imaginary something, why not Absolute Truth? That Absolute Truth must be life. As Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). He must be aware of everything. That means life. That means life. Now the question is how He became experienced? Svarāṭ, independent. Just like we require experience, knowledge, from somebody else. Experienced knowledge is not gained automatically, but the Absolute means that He is full of knowledge. How He got knowledge? Svarāṭ, independently. That is the description. You have to imagine at least like that. It is Vedic injunction, it is the fact, that Absolute Truth independently cognizant of everything. That is Absolute Truth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now these statements are quite scientifically valid and sound. Now this will be verified in our next slide that is called the axioms. This is called structure of a theory. In scientific disciplines, specifically in mathematics, now scientists work with a beginning called axioms. There are two types of axioms. First one is logical axiom, and second one is theoretical axioms. Now from these axioms, by inference, actually one deduces these theorems. That's in the second block. From there, by observation, we have this object of study. Now the basic question is wherefrom these axioms coming from? The starting point, axioms, they take it for granted, and actually there is no proof. It is beyond proof, beyond any scientific proof.

Prabhupāda: Vedānta-sūtra means all axiom. Vedānta-sūtra, that is all axiom. Axiomatic truth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals. They are not human beings. This is the challenge. Still they have not developed the consciousness. And that inquiry, when it is for Kṛṣṇa, that is the final development. And when he understands Kṛṣṇa, his life is perfect. Then he goes back again to the spiritual world. He's quite fit to live there. Otherwise, he's unfit, he must be here in this material world. And if he understands Kṛṣṇa, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). This is perfection.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Life from egg, chicken. It gives life within week. So why shall I wait for millions of billions of years? You show, you make some combination of chemical and show that life is coming within a week.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to defeat this. So in the next slide, in subsequent slides, Sadāpūta will show some mathematical calculation showing that this is completely wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is wrong. We can see, even a layman can see. No question of mathematician, a layman can see, here within a week we see life, why shall I wait for millions of billions of years?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in all branches of study, either it is physical or chemical or mathematical, in all branches of science, we want to show the existence of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: His hand is working.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is the fact. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these are some of the chemical concepts that I described earlier. Next Sadāpūta will take over, and he'll describe the mathematical and physical concepts of proving the existence of Paramātmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, do it.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: This slide shows..., these are the laws of nature according to physicists. And the point we make is that this is their understanding of the final cause of things, and it's very limited. Actually, on this one page, these equations describe everything that goes into all the actions and interactions of chemistry according to their present understanding. And, so there are two main points to make about this. Number one, these are very..., these laws describe very simple forces, pushes and pulls between atoms and things like that. And so intuitively it is very hard to imagine why such simple forces should cause anything complex to organize itself together. Now the scientists customarily make the assertion that laws like this are universal, but one thing we can notice is they have no proof of that. These laws which they say are universal are only studied in certain limited experimental situations with inanimate matter, and then they extrapolate and they say that they apply to everything. But actually the equations are so hard to solve even for reasonably simple molecules that they can't actually test out their assertion. So it's actually just a bluffing statement. So in this slide we wanted to point out how limited these laws are, how limited their concept of the laws of nature is. The next slide, according to the scientist's idea, there are two things going on—these laws and also chance. So this is a calculation showing what happens if you just have chance acting to form one of these proteins that Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about, and you can calculate... Actually here you calculate, suppose you threw a protein together at chance—and here we even allow a ten percent error, you're allowing to get it wrong among ten percent of the proteins—but still chance comes out to ten minus two-hundred-and forty-fourth-power. Now the scientists are always saying if you wait for a long enough time, even something very unlikely can happen; but here we have a calculation of how long you'd have to wait, according to mathematics and the probability theory, and even if you assume an unrealistically high rate of forming proteins at random, still you'd have to wait, according to this, ten to the hundred-and-sixty-seventh-power billion years. And that's a little bit too long. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is mathematics.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It is conclusion, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. So you are mahātmā, sudurlabhaḥ, not ordinary rascal mathematician. (laughter) But you are real mathematician, that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). Read the purport.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: Even anyone with a little common sense can understand that a very simple thing cannot produce a highly complicated thing. It's such an obvious point, but they have to have so many mathematical equations to accept it.

Prabhupāda: Dictaphone, so many complicated, then it is working.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: The scientists say it goes back six hundred million years.

Prabhupāda: That is also imperfect. If we study Brahmā's day, it will be all... Brahmā's day is, one day equal to forty-three hundred thousands of years multiplied by thousand, that is Brahmā's one day. So thirty days, one month, and twelve months equal to year, such hundred years. Your mathematics will fail to figure out. Is it not?

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just like you want to do something, different machine, but the power is the same. You want to, we use a dictaphone or a typewriter, you want to use a, so many, so many... The complication is of the matter, but the electricity is the same. Either this machine or that machine.

Rūpānuga: In mathematics...

Prabhupāda: Don't bring mathematics, try to understand. You have got different machine for different purposes. But without electricity they are useless.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But that is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we had one explanation saying that now, the way we percept knowledge, though we understand things, there is also a conditioning behind it. So actually this is a fact, but in Mathematics, if we change the axiom, then we have a whole new understanding, it's almost completely upside down, but still we can interpret the result. It is just like a simple jumble(?), while Nils Bohr, studying the structure of the atom. Now he had a mathematical equation to fit the phenomena of this atom, and actually you can perfectly describe this phenomena by this equation, but, now, at morning times, this quantum mechanics, it turns out whatever he did was completely wrong, but it can be described completely, perfectly well as his model, as is our present understanding. But now his theories (indistinct), he could explain things on his own, but still it's completely wrong. So similarly...

Prabhupāda: They are right. They may present the wrong thing, but still they are right.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is have already explained, that you serve God in any position, but if you want to know about God more, then you have to come here. Now ask any Christian what is God, who is God, what is His form, what He is doing. Can he answer? Nobody can answer. He knows God is great. How great He is, who is that God, they cannot answer. To some extent it is all right, but if you want to know full extent, then you have come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "Two plus two is equal to four" is mathematics, but if you want to know higher mathematics, you have to go some higher college. "Two plus two" is also mathematics, is it not? Everyone knows two plus two equal to four. So when you go to higher university, that "two plus two" does not change, but you know more about it.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be very interesting if we can throw some mathematics. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, you can challenge them with this, that "Why don't you prepare a chemical egg and give it to the incubator and let life come? If you cannot do that, then don't talk nonsense." This is simple thing. Analyze, take a sparrow's egg, small, analyze what chemicals there are, and combine in the same way. Why they do not do that?

Rūpānuga: It's too hard.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they talk nonsense? You stress on this point. If they say "Yes, we shall do after millions of years," then he should be challenged that "You give up your title, 'Doctor' let the sparrow take it. He's doing. You give up, nonsense, your title. Don't talk nonsense. The sparrow, without taking any doctorate title, he's doing that. So what is the value of your doctorate title?" Challenge him. Seriously challenge. This point you present, they cannot do it, it is certain. It is not possible to be done like that. Spirit soul is different complete from the matter. They have to acknowledge it.

Room Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Dr. Sharma: From medicine point. In physics and mathematics I'll write in those ways, and I'll submit it and let them use it the way they feel like it. Previously I was with the āśrama.

Prabhupāda: Which āśrama?

Dr. Sharma: Kohasat(?)

Prabhupāda: Ācchā.

Dr. Sharma: And before that with the Swami Ram Tirtha Mission in New York. I was a follower of Vivekananda.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Interview with Newsday Newspaper -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: No, it is not surprising, it is natural. If you do, just like if you do business in proper way there will be profit. Similarly, as it is enjoined in this book of knowledge, if you do like that it will expand, it will prosper. Two plus two equal to four. Mathematical calculation. If you make two plus two, it will become four. It will neither become three nor five. So here it is said, you have read the, that "One who is engaged twenty-four hours in My service, so I, yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22), I supply whatever he requires and I protect whatever he has got." So if you actually serve Kṛṣṇa, then everything you want, it will come.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Not Bhagavad-gītā or anything, but he must... Just like a book, mathematics, it may be written by different men, but one must be a mathematician.

Interviewer: I think what Bali was saying is that if a Kṛṣṇa consciousness member were running for an office then you would get out and vote for him. That he would be God conscious.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: That is because you have to go from America to India. You must know. (laughter) You have to calculate two plus two equal to four, a little mathematics. But this biology and this "logy," they are useless. There is no necessity. What you'll gain by understanding biology? Even one who knows biology, the medical man, he gives a tablet, "Perhaps it may help you." "Perhaps." He's not sure. So what is the use? First of all, he'll take one ounce of blood from you, and they send, this station, that station, now making a chart, then he'll give you a tablet, "Perhaps it may help." This is going on.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: You follow that, brahmacārī gurukula, that I've already explained. That should be done. Don't bring any new thing, imported ideas. That will not be helpful. It will be encumbrance. "My experiment with truth"—Gandhi's movement. Truth is truth. "Experiment" means you do not know what is truth. It is a way of life, everything is stated there, try to train them. Simple thing. We are not going to teach biology or chemistry. They are not going to... Our students are not going to... Our students should be fit for teaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By their character, by their behavior, by their knowledge, that is wanted. Biology, chemists, physicists, and mathematician there are hundreds and thousands. We are not going to waste our time that Gurukula should produce a great grammarian, a great geologist, biologist, don't want that. There are many other educational institutions. If you can get a good driver of your car, so what is the use of wasting your time to learn driving? Is it not? If you have got important business, you can do that. Why should you waste your time to learn driving? Better employ one driver, pay him some fare.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikārī. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jñānī, he does not know. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. The so-called jñānī, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jñānī. His jñāna, his knowledge, is lacking.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So in other words, that they are not yet conversant with the things, and still they are claiming to be scientist. They do not know thoroughly how things are happening, and still they are taking the credit of becoming scientist.

Dayānanda: They have developed a branch of mathematics that deals with chance, things happening with chance.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that mathematics department is now being closed. You know that? Nobody cares to attend that mathematic meeting. People are becoming disinterested with these chance theories. There is one Dr. Henderson, you know? He became doctor in that field. He's not getting job, now he's manufacturing incense.

Morning Walk -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is śūdra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brāhmaṇa? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brāhmaṇa." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brāhmaṇa he'll be hammerman. In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Dr. Patel: Mathematics?

Prabhupāda: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students, nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literatures.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Enclose this quote.

Maṇihāra: "ISKCON has generated many community farms like New Vrindaban, providing the ideal atmosphere of a busy, yet peaceful village, fully devoted to spiritual progress. Swami Prabhupāda has also established the first Kṛṣṇa conscious gurukula in the West, a primary school in Dallas, Texas, for one hundred boys and girls between the ages of five and fifteen. Soon after its success, many such gurukulas have sprung up all over the world. Aside from teaching reading, writing, mathematics, geography, etc., the gurukula teaches the child how to cultivate God consciousness. Once a year members of ISKCON journey to the Society's international headquarters at Śrīdhāma Māyāpur, ninety miles north of Calcutta, and the birthplace of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. It is the site of a ten crore rupees international Vedic village comprised of community farming projects, high-class gurukula school, free medicinal facilities, and handloom weaving center. An institute of Vedic studies is proposed to be established at this site. Other major ISKCON centers in India are in Vṛndāvana, Bombay, and Kurukṣetra, the site of a three-crore rupee international Sanskrit university. This project will be sponsored by Alfred Ford, a nephew of Henry Ford. This will be the cultural..."

Prabhupāda: Nephew, nephew of Ford, that's a fact. Alfred is from the daughter's side. So the present Mr. Ford, his nephew, certainly, because daughter's side. His mother is the daughter, granddaughter of Henry Ford. Alfred's mother is the granddaughter of Henry Ford. Therefore the present Ford is the maternal uncle of Alfred.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Near, that is one thing. You are near to me. That means we are not equal. You are a separate person, I am a separate person.

Indian man: But even what has been told by him, he is Veda, Vedāntī, anybody, he doesn't come to ātmā is going to Paramātmā. He never says that. That mathematic equation...

Indian man (2): They say that the ātmā has forgotten. They say that ātmā has come into the clutches of the māyā. When you get rid of the māyā you become Paramātmā.

Indian man: That is not... You don't become Paramātmā. You become Paramātmā means that... You don't understand Paramātmā. Paramātmā is the Supreme, Supreme soul. How can you become...

Prabhupāda: Then you have to accept Paramātmā and ātmā different.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hindi, Sanskrit, English compulsory.

Bhagatji: That's all. Then, afterwards we can make other, just elemental mathematics, arithmetic or just that, afterwards, when the regular studies go in the (indistinct). Now (indistinct), these three things. By learning Hindi they will (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: And the government also will like that, that foreign students...

Bhagatji: If they can understand the language and they...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, Hindi is essential. It is not difficult. The same principle as Sanskrit. Reading and writing, that's all.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: The Hindu religion is a vague term. It is a vague term. It is not clear. It is not clear. Real term is, it is called, Vedic principle. Vedic principle. And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: Vedic knowledge means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). So anyone who tries to understand God, he is in the Vedic line. Veda means knowledge, so as you get the stock of knowledge, that is called Vedas. But as soon as we say Vedas, they think it is Hindu. Mathematics is a science. So any scientific man will accept mathematics. Where is the question of Hindu mathematics? Gold is gold. If it is in the hand of Hindu, it is Hindu gold? Hindu, Muslim gold? Gold is gold. When we give the Vedic knowledge, they think it is Hindu idea.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this is difficulty. If I say, "Here is a person who knows mathematics," why there should be... Any person who is interested in mathematics will welcome him. So similarly, here is Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means real knowledge. Here is Bhagavad-gītā, the knowledge of God, but they misunderstand. They think, "Oh, we have got another God." How God can be another? So people should be sober, that we are giving books. They should understand. And it is accepted by the educated class, big, big professors, big, big philosophers. It is not blind faith. Just like this version of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "As we are changing body even in this duration of life, similarly, when this body is finished, then another body," so where is the difficulty to understand? But they will say, "It is Hindu idea." Fact we are presenting, that "You are changing your body.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That requires thinking. That requires knowledge. Therefore we are giving so many books. You can study. You can present the case nicely with argument, philosophy. That is your duty. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānu... When you are able to describe God very philosophically, scientifically, mathematically, then your education is perfect.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I denied, "No, you cannot have." I told them. One girl in the airship, she was seeing like (makes some gesture-laughter). I asked her, "Give me 7-Up." "It is locked now." So I frankly said that "No, no. You cannot have equal rights because your brain is thirty-four ounce." Actually that's a fact. Where is woman philosopher, mathematician, scientist? Not a single.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, in the Western country also. Western country, now this higher English, higher mathematics, higher philosophy is no student admission. Nobody's going. They're going to close.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Philosophy and all the arts.

Prabhupāda: No, anything higher study, don't care for it.

Rāmeśvara: It's true. Technical studies and business...

Prabhupāda: Our Hayagrīva is not getting any employment. Nobody's interested. "Eh. What is the use of higher mathematics, all this, these things? We have to earn money."

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.

Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.

Prabhupāda: United States.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. It's very interesting that science says that those equations at the bottom are the... Those are the ultimate truth, the modern science, about these mathematical equations. So if we analyze this on the analytical basis, they are like this—those mathematical equations. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And these are atoms and molecules or, we call it, fundamental particles. And so the spring between the two is some sort of electromagnetic force in the different..., among different particles. So this is the concept of Absolute Truth in terms of science. And we analyzed this in terms of our practical experience, from our day-to-day experience, and we gave some nice examples like this. This is a crocodile from... It's a male crocodile from South Africa in Scientific American a few months ago. There he's trying to break an egg just to come out, that little young one, the small baby crocodile. And what he does is...

Prabhupāda: They come out from egg?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. They lay eggs.

Prabhupāda: Oh. How big it is?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I don't know how big it is.

Prabhupāda: Not very big.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: The Absolute Truth is also chance?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In order to write down in the form of mathematical formulas or equations in quantum mechanics this—they call probability—the theory of probability or chance should be introduced. But Einstein was against that. That's what he's saying. It says, "The Heisenberg all-tranquilizing philosophy or religion is so delicately contrived that for the time being it provides a gentle pillow for the true believer from which he cannot very easily be aroused. So let him lie there." In other words, those who believe in chance... The main concept in quantum mechanics or quantum physics is mainly from this Heisenberg and Borg.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, you can..., every right to speak. You are qualified scientist. All doctor, they must agree to hear you, cannot deny.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And our mathematician is very good. He's also got some good artistic ideas. He told me that he started some arts.

Prabhupāda: So he's a mathematician and another (sic:) physist, and you are chemist. So complete science. The pure science is mathematics, physics, and chemistry. So our three Ph.D.s, they are combination of pure science. Nobody can defeat. Mathematics is there, physics is there, chemistry is there. And my sentiment is this, (laughs) I challenge them, "No. Life from life, not matter." So perhaps I challenged first. Or anybody? Then life from life, not from matter?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda did it.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually we started looking some on this astronomy thing. About this Sūrya-siddhānta. Sadāpūta is especially interested because he's a mathematician. So normally astronomy is subject of mathematics. So he found this copy in Princeton just recently, last month or so. There we found that the idea is very similar to modern science in the Sūrya-siddhānta. But we heard that Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Prabhupāda translated Sūrya-siddhānta, but we are not getting a copy of it. So he asked me to look in Calcutta, and some astrologers.

Prabhupāda: He had some disciples, some astronomer. His name can be had from Calcutta.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is correct. How they can prove it is incorrect?

Devotee (1): Well they say that by mathematics we can prove the position...

Prabhupāda: So we have got our mathematics also. (break) ...workers. In the beginning I was alone. Now we have got so many things. So we shall come out triumphant.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's Prabhupāda's mercy.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

The mind is no more disturbed with all these things. Sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati. Then he is to be understood... He's in the sattva-guṇa. That is perfect brahminical life. Then he'll be pleased. Prasīdati. In this way, gradual step... So it is very difficult to bring, introduce varṇāśrama, but at least there must be some idea. Just like in the university, nobody is going to study higher mathematics, higher English literature. Nobody goes even in your country. The classes are almost vacant. But still, the government does not close it. The expenditure is high, but there is no student, no income. Therefore the professors coming to us, "Give us some student." You know that?

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the real legal thing is: some way or other, introduce books. Therefore... And it will be beneficial in the long time let us see. Read it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We're very happy to see that by your divine mercy the whole world is flooded with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just by printing and distributing your books the whole world will change. We can see the tremendous effect that your books already caused in the Communist countries of Eastern Europe. The people are mad after your books. Many of them can see that this is the only solution to get out from the miseries that are caused by the materialistic way of life and Communism. Please let me quote from a recent letter sent by a boy in Hungary." The boy's name is Yedi Peta. " 'According to the advices now, I am chanting daily on beads I made at home. I also have purchased the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, although I can only speak Hungarian. Now I do not give any more importance for the evidences from chemistry, physics, mathematics, etc. Rather, I appreciate A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda much more than any scientist or philosopher.' "

Devotees: Jaya!

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then why...? What is this? This is nonsense. Two plus two equal to four. It will be accepted by everyone. Every scientist, every mathematician. And if by vote, secular state, "It is five" or "It is six," shall we have to accept it? We have to accept knowledge as it is. Why you say secular or not secular?

Mr. Koshi: No, I think it is a question of accepting a concept of...

Prabhupāda: No concept. It is science. It is not... Try to understand this. "Two plus two" is science. It is not concept.

Interview with Mr. Koshi (Asst. Editor of The Current Weekly) -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Again why you are coming to renunciation? First of all come to the knowledge. First of all accept that within this body there is the active principle. Then whether it is required renunciation, no renunciation, that we shall discuss later on. First of all, we have to understand, as Kṛṣṇa says in the very beginning, that asmin dehe dehī. Within this body, there is the owner of the body. First of all try to understand. He is speaking on that subject matter. Dehī. Not on the deha. People should understand first of all this science. Then talk of other things. When we say "Two plus two equal to four," no scholar will deny it. "Yes, it is four." Nobody, no rascal will say, "No, it is five or three." Nobody will disagree, if it is science, if it is mathematics. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa says within this body, the owner of the body. Who will deny it? Let them accept it. Then we shall discuss what is that owner, what is the nature of that owner. First of all let them accept it. They are accepting the machine as everything. Do you agree or not?

Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but who is the owner?

Prabhupāda: Ah. Yes. Machine, if you take the importance of the machine and not the machine driver, then what is your knowledge? If a dog is thinking "I am a bulldog, gow gow," and if a man is thinking "I am Indian, gow gow," what is the difference? He is embarrassed with the machine body, and he is also embarrassed with the machine body.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If we do not take mathematics as it is, and if we interpret "Two plus two equal to three," that is rascaldom. "Two plus two equal to four," that is everywhere.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. And just see democracy. People demanding that "You resign." He'll... (break) ...and from the very beginning, Pakistan is controlled by crooked men. They are Muhammadans, rascals, crooked, not cultured, crude. You won't find amongst the Muhammadans very great mathematicians, philosophers, or highly... Very, very rare.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This one is to prove from mathematics that life cannot come from matter. This one is The Laws of Consciousness and the Laws of Nature, to prove by quantum mechanics that there must be Supersoul, Paramātmā. There must be Kṛṣṇa to direct all the source of knowledge. And there is no way that life can come from matter. This was the basic difference between spirit and matter. From Bhagavad-gītā we use kṣetra-kṣetrajñayor jñānam, from Bhagavad-gītā, Chapter 13.3, "To understand the distinction between matter, physical body, and life, the spirit, or the knower of the field, is called knowledge." And we expounded this. We give the nice examples. We make their chemical theory of life as the "molecular fairy tale." So that makes quite nicely adjusted to their theory.

Prabhupāda: Ātreya Ṛṣi can go for some time, Bangladesh. They... He went there. Both Hindus and Muslims, they have regard to our society. And explain.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a newsletter issued by the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals. They just had an international meeting in Japan this April, and I am a member, so they send me a newsletter, national newsletter. They have interesting schemes. The next meeting is in 1981 in Israel. I was actually thinking of presenting a paper in the last meeting, but time was little short for us. So we are thinking of presenting papers in that international meeting. It is a whole scientific community all over. So I thought it will be very interesting to present our viewpoint and make it very strong. We are very small in number, but our thoughts will be very challenging to all of them, especially mathematics and physical chemistry together. They also have a journal, the Journal of the Origin of Life, and there the write only about chemicals. Everything is just like a story. So we make it a fairy tale, the molecular fairy tale, and it's very appropriate. All are stories.

Prabhupāda: They invented stories for going to the moon planet.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is empty voice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, boy. He says, "The highly developed forebrain and the deeply convoluted cortex have helped him to think creatively. Scientists, as a general rule, are objective thinkers because they base their thoughts on empirical knowledge. Mystics and visionaries, the so-called spiritual scientists of Dāsa and Swami, on the other hand, build up their thoughts on their subjective perceptions. Books on chemistry, physics, mathematics, geography, history, geology, anthropology, paleontology, engineering, medical science, astronomy, etc., are the products of objective thinkers."

Prabhupāda: Big, big words, that's all.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That much we want to keep. The people may not think of it as bogus.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Our chief guest for tomorrow has already arrived. And he's very impressed. I took a tour of our temples, also the Gurukula. And they're very impressed with the whole building and the whole program that we have here. Very nice. He brought also an architect. He's a retired engineer, Chowdury from..., together. Also we already have a mathematician from Delhi University for tomorrow. So I took three of them tour of our temple and gave them nice prasādam. They were very impressed.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I also gave a lecture on the life in its origin. In Mathurā there is one veterinary college, the biggest in Asia, about two hundred scholars. We also showed "Hare Kṛṣṇa Frontier," "Spiritual Frontier" movies. They liked very much. And we're having another lecture Thursday to be given by Thompson in All-India Institute of Medical Sciences. There will be about some two hundred, three hundred scholars from around Delhi. We'll be discussing about life in its origin. And also we are planning to give several lecture in Delhi University, in the mathematics, biology and physics departments.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have also written books like this. This is a... (Bengali) This is our worldwide preaching program.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) No sentiment—"Come on"—scientific challenge. (Bengali) No theory. (Bengali-Prabhupāda telling about Dr. Kapoor and scientific conference, Fiji, etc.) (Bengali) Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Kṛṣṇa-kāliya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Agra University, you lectured professors?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, professors and students, mostly the professors, from all departments: physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, and philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Hm!

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also asked me to bring a film from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. So I'm going to show the "Spiritual Frontier" just after the lecture. So I'll go with the Fairchild, the movie projector.

Prabhupāda: Very good. When you have to go?

Page Title:Mathematics (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:20 of Nov, 2010
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=101, Let=0
No. of Quotes:101