Prabhupāda: Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "After many, many lives Just like bank balance increases, similarly, one who has increased the balance of pious activities for many, many thousands of lives, oh, such persons are now playing with Kṛṣṇa. They have taken the body of His cowherds boy, transcendental spiritual body, and just they are playing with Kṛṣṇa. And who is Kṛṣṇa?" Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhānubhūtya: "The great saints and sages who are trying to understand the Supreme Brahman, here is Kṛṣṇa. That Supreme Brahman is here, playing." Itthaṁ satāṁ brahma-sukhanubhutya dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ para-daivatena: "The impersonalist Brahman is... Because Kṛṣṇa's effulgence is impersonal Brahman, so here is He." And dāsyaṁ gatānāṁ: "Those who are devotees, those who have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the master, for them here is Kṛṣṇa." And māyāśritānāṁ nara-dārakeṇa: "And those who are materialistic—they simply think Kṛṣṇa is ordinary boy or man—He is also there. But who are these boys? They are playing with the same person who is Brahman, who is Bhagavān, or who is ordinary man, according to different calculation. But these boys who are playing with Him, they have accumulated many, many lives' heaps of pious activities." They are not ordinary men.
Materialistic (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"materialistic"
|"materialistically"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: All spirit. All the sky. Everywhere is sky, but when it's covered it is called cloud. Similarly when God is covered by some nonsense ideas, then it is material. Otherwise, there is no material. Therefore those who are too much absorbed in materialistic way, there is a restriction but don't attempt. Because he will be to think that God's name is just like my son's name my daughter's name. Therefore that restriction.
Ranadhir: I think when they worship, they're allowed to say God's name, it's just when they're not, when they're talking about Him outside the temple that they have to use different name.
Hayagrīva: We've got to tune some harmoniums.
Hayagrīva: Well, that's materialists.
Kīrtanānanda: Thirty people, I think.
Hayagrīva: That's a materialistic calculation.
Kīrtanānanda: So if you want one cow for every person, it would only support eighteen cows.
Prabhupāda: Eighteen cows? The whole property?
Kīrtanānanda: If you want them to be self-sufficient, you have to grow grain for them for the winter.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, the difficulty is...
Prof. Kotovsky: ...are both masters(?) and ex-British officers.
Prabhupāda: ... the difficulty, that India is nowhere. They are trying to imitate, Westernize, but they are hundred years back. From materialistic point of view, technological point of view, they are hundred years back.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, that's right, but what to do for India?
Prabhupāda: No. That not...
Prof. Kotovsky: To improve the condition of life, to be Westernized is the major problem.
Dr. Singh: It is always the home is the last one always, you know what happens with prophets. They are always respected more abroad.
Mālatī: But the point is, we are..., he is taking from this country the greatest thing and giving. It is not like he is exploiting in some materialistic effort. Rather he is giving the greatest thing from this country.
Prabhupāda: Recently one paper has remarked that "such an important man is going unnoticed." They remarked like that.
Dr. Singh: Here?
Prabhupāda: No. Where it is?
Prabhupāda: The purport of the whole knowledge will be revealed from within, because Kṛṣṇa is within, and the spiritual master is without, so both of them will help. Our students are going so many places—in the schools, colleges, universities. They're surprised how they're speaking so nicely, because they have got unflinching faith in Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. They are not so learned. They have not gone to the college and learned so many things as the materialistic students do, but on this account: bhakti-yogena manasi. Vyāsadeva also did like that. He became so great because he has accepted bhakti-yoga by the order of his spiritual master, Nārada. Before that, he wrote so many books, Purāṇas and others. He was not satisfied. When Nārada said that "You cannot be satisfied by describing so many material things. You try to describe the glories of the Lord..."
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So keep this principle in view, that you have to become swan, not crows. They say that everyone, every religion is all the same. This is all nonsense. (indistinct) In Bhagavad-gītā there are different types of religion, sattvic, rajarsic, tamasic. And our this... If you take it as religion, this is transcendental. Sa vai puṁsām paro dharmo (SB 1.2.6). Paraḥ means transcendental, it is not ordinary, aparaḥ. In aparaḥ dharma, the materialistic dharma, there are ritualistic ceremonies how to make one perfect for accepting transcendental religion. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is directly putting oneself in the transcendental. That is the special (indistinct). Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (aside) Why don't you close it? Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then it is to be supposed that you have finished all other types of religion.
Prabhupāda: In order to understand the spiritual value of life one must go to a guru. Gurum evābhigacchet. What is that guru? Śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham: "He is well learned in Vedic literature," and brahma-niṣṭham, "and firm faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." These are the two qualifications of guru. He must know all the Vedic conclusions, śrotriyam, not that he has to read, but he must hear from the authoritative sources. Just like Arjuna is hearing from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the most authoritative personality. So similarly, everyone has to hear either from Kṛṣṇa or from His bona fide representative. That is śrotriyam. And the result will be that after becoming student of such bona fide guru, one will be firmly fixed up in God consciousness. That is the result, firmly fixed up. Now, these boys from foreign countries, according to our geographical arrangement, they are foreigners. But we don't see anything foreign. We see every land belongs to Kṛṣṇa and everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So we have no such distinction. But still, from materialistic point of view, these boys and girls, they, three or four years ago they did not know what is this word Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait. So Jawaharlal made this impression, that "Everything Indian is bad, and anything made in London..." Because he was made in London. He was educated in London. So everything nice. Although in my household life I was doing some business in connection. I had to see Jawaharlal Nehru. So when he was common man, I went to his house. I saw it is completely Europeanized, although he is in khādi. So his father, he hated Indian medicine. You see? Motilal Nehru. A doctor, his family physician, he told me. I was doing medicine business. So I introduced one preparation, pulti(?). That was in a clay pot, anti-floristan(?) So doctor said personally, "If I prescribe your pul, jagal-pulti(?), that Motilal Nehru says, 'Doctor, in case of medicine, please do not prescribe Indian.' " You see? So this is our mentality. We have got all foreign mentality, but still, we are claiming that we have become independent. Not indepen... We are culturally conquered by the materialistic advancement of foreign countries. We have lost our own culture. This is our position.
Pañca-draviḍa: They will never give you anything.
Prabhupāda: Comparatively, life in foreign countries nice. Because I am seeing, from materialistic point of view. In America, you can get anything without any control. Any amount, anything.
Gurudāsa: There is more supply than demand.
Indian man: Than demand, yes. That is the problem there: what to do with the stuff that you have got and that you are producing. That's an economic problem.
Pañca-draviḍa: Not just supply, quality. When you buy an orange and you have a glass of orange juice, it's orange, it's not yellow. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: No. If that steel, cement, and bricks are meant for preaching, then it is all right. But if there is difficulty, then sometimes we become absorbed in steel-cement. Steel-cement is not bad, provided it is meant for preaching. That is also spiritual. Nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta-vairāgya. But because we are materialistic, sometimes steel and cement attracts us more than Kṛṣṇa. So this Bombay affair is giving me a little depression. Because so highly thought of, now these people they do not want to stay there. Just like this Mahaṁsa, Dinanātha, they do not wish to return. Something has to be done.
Gurudāsa: Actually it is not only one or two isolated cases.
Prabhupāda: There are many. I have studied all of them.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Buddhist Monk (1): And I told them directly and indirectly, "Your systems, which have transplanted the well, type systems, especially of India, has created a catastrophe. We have made mistakes in the past. But we profited by them, and we want a successful educational system that taught the individual how to give himself peace within himself, mentally and physically. Within his family, within his relations society, nation and the world. And today that system has been overtaken by this materialistic system. One calls himself materialist directly. Another, camouflage, just under the name of religion. That's the only difference I know of in these two systems in the West. That's the only difference." And I told them.
Prabhupāda: That is our qualification. Yes.
David Lawrence: Unfortunately, as we find, the youngsters that, certainly that I teach, have got such materialistic views of their...
Prabhupāda: If you keep the students as English boys or American boys, then it will be difficult. Then the, the cultural question will come up.
David Lawrence: Yes, yes. We try to bring in as much... In fact, now we have a new course... This is the sort of thing that's happening. (Break) ...the Jewish-Christian scriptures which do not, you know, just don't lend themselves in any way to the right sort of feelings being created and the right sort of experience being created. We found that this year's course-it's the first year-has been tremendously helpful. We brought the boys... I can't think anybody was here, but we brought the boys up to the London temple, and...
Prabhupāda: Here?
Pradyumna: "...who is the full-fledged Absolute Truth. Brahman is His transcendental bodily effulgence, and Paramātmā is His partial representation. As such, Brahman or Paramātmā realization of the Absolute Truth is but a partial realization. There are four different types of living beings. The karmīs, the jñānīs, the yogis and the devotees. The karmīs are materialistic, whereas the other three are transcendental. The first-class transcendentalists are the devotees who have realized the Supreme Person. The second-class transcendentalists are those who have partially realized the plenary portion of the Absolute person. And the third-class transcendentalist are those who have barely realized the spiritual focus of the Absolute Person."
Reporter: Who are those three, jñānīs...?
Prabhupāda: Jñānīs, yogis...
Reporter: Yes, yes, they can.
Prabhupāda: (laughs)
Reporter: The attachment is mukti, materialistic attachment, and bhukti... (break) I was very impressed with the account, how...
Prabhupāda: This will be New Gokula.
Reporter: New Gokula. Hm, hm, it's very good.
Prabhupāda: They've got New Vrindaban, New Navadvīpa, New Jagannātha Purī, New Dvārakā...
Pradyumna: New Gayā...
Prabhupāda: How? That you do not know. You'll have to realize when you give us the chance. But if you give us the chance, there is no loss on your part. But you'll practically see how it is rectified, how it is...
Vicitravīrya: Pollution is to some extent a result of materialistic activity?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Vicitravīrya: The pollution, is it to some extent the result of material activity, which will cease when the spiritual...
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. What is material activity, what spiritual activity is. These are to be understood. But we are sure, if simply this chance is given, anywhere, let us execute this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and speaking something from this Bhagavad-gītā. We are getting practical result. Just like you were describing, that in communist country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Reporter: Thank you very much. Well, the first point is people are used to seeing that your Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is completely out of life and doesn't take any interest into the real life, materialistic, you know. So, but I think it's a mistake perhaps. It's a mistake. And that...
Yogeśvara: (French)
Reporter: (French)
Yogeśvara: Ah, oui?
Reporter: Oui. I've heard that... It's a mistake. And your movement, your consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, engloves, takes all the direction of economics and political possibility.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Taking the body as lump of matter. That's all. To break a stone and to kill the body of a child is the same thing. They think like that.
David Lawrence: And yet the incredible thing is the obsession with making life longer. I mean, what is the point of making a life longer that is a worthless life anyway? Because they're so materialistic.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: Take a man, somebody could say he's given a great deal of enjoyment, a man like Walt Disney, you know. He's had his body put into...
Prabhupāda: Well, longer life, you can see this tree, you'll find at least five hundred years old. So this kind of longer life, what is the value? What is the value? There are many trees... I have seen one tree in San Francisco, seven thousand years old.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed from bad materialistic association can never avoid hearing the glories of the Lord even though they have heard them only once."
Prabhupāda: Hm. So this will protect you from the influence of māyā. Read that again.
Pradyumna: Sanskrit or translation.
Prabhupāda: Translation.
Pradyumna: "The intelligent, who have understood the Supreme Lord in association with pure devotees and have become freed..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can take advantage of all this media. That we are doing. Just like we are taking advantage of this microphone. We are not rejecting, "Oh, it is material. Why should we take?" Nothing material. Anything used for Kṛṣṇa is spiritual. Material means what is not used for Kṛṣṇa. That is material. You are materialistic when you are not used for Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you are utilized for Kṛṣṇa, you are spiritualistic. That is the difference. Here we say, "This is material world." This is material world because everyone has forgotten Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is material world. So if they come into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is spiritual. (break) ...conscious people now challenge this rascal that "We are searching after Kṛṣṇa. We are not searching... We are devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and you are posing yourself as Kṛṣṇa. So show us some Kṛṣṇa's power. We immediately come to you."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And practically, you are coming from different groups-Americans, Indians, Africans—but you don't think yourself as American or Indian or African.
O'Grady: But the system insists that you do.
Bhagavān: The world as it is, the society, the materialistic society, puts these bodily demands...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. The materialistic society means duality.
O'Grady: But that's unavoidable.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
O'Grady: Because of your physical existence...
Prabhupāda: Unavoidable, yes...
Satsvarūpa: But sometimes, because this materialistic society is so far advanced, you say we cannot actually hope to change it.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is a fact. We cannot hope to change. But we request everyone to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Yogeśvara: In their factory or wherever they are.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because it is very difficult to close the factory. That is not possible. So whatever you have done, it is all right. But you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then things will be adjusted. We are giving chance to everyone, who is degraded or who is not degraded, by the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. We do not neglect anyone. We do not say, "You are neglected. We don't accept you." No. I accept you and I accept others. What is this? Cemetery? No. It is also part of this park? (break)
Prabhupāda: ...brain, they have created something, but it will be used for sinful activities: drinking wine, meat-eating and sex. Not for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Duṣkṛtina. They use their brain, but for sinful activities. This is duṣkṛtina.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: There's the verse in the Second Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā that what is night for the materialistic man is the time of awakening for the introspective sage.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guru-gaurāṅga: These scientists, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that their research is neutral, and it is not their fault that the use of their discoveries is detrimental. Like that man yesterday, he said, "It is not my bomb."
Prabhupāda: Oh, then whose bomb?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feel, Prabhupāda, that they've been cheated so much by so many philosophies that when we say that the Vedas are written by a person who's not contaminated by the modes of nature, they say, "Well, how is this possible? My experience is that everyone who's written books, they're all materialistic and therefore the philosophy must be like that."
Prabhupāda: But you must be following some philosophy. You're not without philosophy. Even the hippies they're also follow... They've got their own philosophy.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So you cannot give up philosophy. Now it is misfortune that you met with the cheaters. So make your fortune now. Believe in Kṛṣṇa's philosophy. Then you'll be happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: So the activities of the materialistic man, then, no matter what he does, he will develop another material body for it. (indistinct) Is that right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: And a devotee is acting, but he's not getting any mental impression? From his activities?
Prabhupāda: His mind is being... His mental expression is Kṛṣṇa. He's always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma. We have got some propensity to create. Just like this beautiful place. We have got creative energy. Therefore it is advised that nirbandhaḥ kṛṣṇa-sambandhe. Make it for Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in India, they have also created big, big temples, four flight, but for Kṛṣṇa. Then the energy spent for creating this park, in relationship with Kṛṣṇa will be utilized as service to Kṛṣṇa. And if it simply meant for sense gratification, then you are under the laws of nature, contaminated. Just like if a man is very powerful, he's creating this park, but he is contaminated with some infection, he, will he not suffer?
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yāmunācārya. (Sanskrit). Yāmunācārya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned." (laughter) This is the test. Not that you become very advanced spiritualist and at the same time advance in sex life. That is not. (Sanskrit) That is the test that as soon as you are advanced in spiritual life, all these materialistic habits will be rejected automatically.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidyā, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature's way—the sun is rising from the eastern side—that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern, Western?"
Jayādvaita: The karmīs will say that materialistic culture is also meant for the whole world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we admit. The materialistic culture, how to eat nicely, that is meant for everyone. Everyone wants to eat nicely, not that only Europeans want, not the Indians. That is material. To sleep nicely in a good apartment, that is wanted by both the Easterners and Westerners. So there is no discrimination. Sex life, that is meant for everyone. So as material life is also meant for everyone, similarly, spiritual life is also meant for everyone.
Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that the children in the West, in the materialistic culture, they become hippies. They'll say that at least they've had the choice, at least they were given...
Prabhupāda: Again, again you are bringing the same question, Eastern-Western.
Rāmeśvara: Materialistic.
Prabhupāda: Materialistic means that is the ultimate end of materialistic life. Because they want new pleasure, new pleasure, new pleasure, so sometimes this, sometimes that... Sometimes they think the civilized way is better; sometimes the uncivilized way is better. That's all, this way and that way. That is called punaḥ punaś ca... And then you'll take again to civilized way of... I think some of the hippies are taking now. Yes. Because the same example, stool, this side or that side, it is stool. So these materialistic persons, they are trying to change from this side to that side, but it is stool. That is the... That they do not know. They are accepting stool as something very sublime, and therefore they are trying to change the position, sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Hitvā anyathā rūpam. This is anyathā rūpam, means a living being. Being spiritual, his business is spiritual, but he has accepted material as the platform of his happiness. That is his fault. So material thing, either this side or that side, it is material. Bhoga-tyāga. So therefore he is not happy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materialistic man means he wants all these things in different way. Somebody is becoming God, somebody is becoming philosopher, somebody is becoming scientist, in this way. Real purpose is these three things. Abha-pūjā-pratiṣṭhā. And our philosophy? We don't want anything of this. Just see. Negation. Na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ (Cc. Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4). Say... All denial, "We don't want." That is Vaiṣṇavism. Then what do you want? "We want simply to serve Kṛṣṇa." This is our position. They don't want to serve Kṛṣṇa; they want to imitate Kṛṣṇa. And that is their satisfaction.
Mother: But most people are materialistically minded, aren't they? There's very few that aren't.
Gaṇeśa: Most people are materialistically minded. Not many people are spiritually inclined.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the defect of the modern civilization.
Mother: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And therefore they are suffering.
Prabhupāda: Then it will be regular. It is nature's punishment. You may not care what is sinful life, but that is recorded. That is foolishness. "I don't care for God, don't care for what is going to happen." That is foolishness. People, lower planetary system, they are like that. In this planet also. In Western countries there are many places. "Don't care for anything, what is sinful life, what is going to happen. Let us enjoy, that's all." This is their philosophy. "Let us enjoy, that's all." Materialistic point of view is like that. They do not know that we are eternal and we are responsible for our activities. That is knowledge. But they have no knowledge. They simply want to enjoy. They do not care for death also. Simply sense gratification. That's all. This is called dānava, dānava life. The scientist explain for so many varieties. They accept there are varieties. Why there are so many varieties of life?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And that is the fact. And Chinese Communism will be perfect if they take little instruction from us. We are also Communist, Kṛṣṇa Communist. We want that everyone should be happy. The Communistic philosophy is also like that. They want to see everyone happy. But they have made a materialistic center. That will not help. People are attracted to these bad habits of materialistic civilization. The most important is that sex and intoxication and meat-eating and gambling. So their attraction has to be changed. Otherwise, although these Chinese, they are pushing in the village, that village also will be a brothel. They must have some attraction. So where is that attraction? Just like the hippies. They do not like this civilization, but the attraction for the sex and intoxication they could not give up. So they remain the nasty again in a different way. The process should be mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ.
Ambarīṣa: So each second the body is a little different?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Each second the body is different. But what this rascal will do? How they will know? They have no brain. All dull-headed materialistic, mūḍha. They cannot understand this. But this is the process going on. I want, for certain thing, I want a different body. Immediately nature supplies.
Yadubara: Even within this body?
Prabhupāda: Why within? Another body you cannot see. Not within—without. Another body supplied.
Prabhupāda: They are missing the aim of life. That is the... The aim of life is, an..., not according to Vedic, but anyone, the aim of life is how to realize God. That is aim. In the animal life or in other lives less important than the human being there is no question of God realization. In the human life, the civilized human life, there is religion. It doesn't matter whether one is Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim or a Buddhist. These are the principle religions of the world. So any civilized man must be inquisitive to know what is the original source of everything. That philosophy is there. It is called Brahma-sūtra or Vedānta-sūtra. Perhaps you have heard the name, Vedānta philosophy. Veda means knowledge, and anta means end. In the materialistic way of knowledge they did not find any end, and they accept it "That this is progress." But one must come to the end of the knowledge, what is the ultimate knowledge.
Prabhupāda: We want to raise first-class man. Try to understand. The present society, we are creating fourth-class men. Therefore we are not in very happy condition. We want to raise the fourth-class man to first-class man. First-class man means with qualification who can control the mind, control the senses, always very cleansed and truthful, very simple, full of all kinds of knowledge, practical application in life, then to have full knowledge of God, these are the characteristics of first-class man. So at the present moment everyone is a fourth-class man. So we want to get some first-class men. That is required. Because there is no idea, first-class man, therefore people are becoming full of crimes. You have seen the article in the Time? "Crime, Why and What to Do?" That is the concern of the materialistic society. So we are trying to raise a group of men who will be ideal. Just like our devotees. You will find their characters different from all others, at least in your country.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (Indian man): How do you advise Indians who are here and who have fallen to some extent in the materialistic world? They did not leave... Basically, they left their homes, most of them, to educate themselves. When they came here, they educated themselves, and they don't want to go back. Basically, they have fallen into the materialistic world. What advice you render them so that they get out of these clutches and go back and serve here or in the country but they should be devotional to the Almighty God?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...is concerned, "How Kṛṣṇa will keep good health?" And we are concerned, "Kṛṣṇa will go to hell. Please supply me food so that I might keep my health good." That is the difference between materialistic and spiritualist. The foolish man does not understand that Kṛṣṇa is supplying food to the elephant, to the ant, and why I shall go to the church for asking my food? It is already there. And our policy is, "Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." Hare Kṛṣṇa means, "O Kṛṣṇa, O the energy of Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in Your service." We create problem. Otherwise, no problem. Kṛṣṇa has arranged everything. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Just see so many fruits for the birds. They are so sumptuously supplied, they are thrown. Pūrṇam idam (Īśo Invocation). Everything is sufficient. But these rascal blind, they do not know. They are trying to adjust. What adjustment? It is already sufficient.
Prabhupāda: That is fallen condition.
Devotee: They think that is the success of life.
Prabhupāda: They think. They are foolish. They can think like that. Generally, that is... Not that devotees are not opulent. No, that is not. But this materialistic opulence means fallen condition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The demigods are in a very opulent position also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But they are devotees.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But they are devotees, not fallen.
Prabhupāda: They can fall. Everyone can fall. (break)
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Otherwise how you are getting if it was given up? How you are getting now? It was not given up. Who says it was given up?
Devotee: Well, America was formed on a materialistic society.
Prabhupāda: America may say, but if it was given up, then how you are getting now?
Brahmānanda: Now Americans are taking it up.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How it is given up?
Lakṣmī-nārāyaṇa: They will say that it became dormant. Not that many people liked it anymore so...
Prabhupāda: Not dormant. It is coming. It is coming.
Prabhupāda: No. He does not find any happiness on account of his too much materialistic mind.
Brahmānanda: That is the disease.
Prabhupāda: That is the disease. So it has to be cured by this bhakti-yoga. So in the bhakti-yoga, in the beginning, it will taste bitter. Therefore they do not come. But if they take to bhakti-yoga, then the material disease will be cured and they will find it is very sweet.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the more people try to enjoy materially, they become more and more unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Busy fools, creating foolishness, and this is aristocracy; a rich man's engagement.
Indian man (1): Yes. He can afford all this.
Indian man (3): So how long this thing will continue now, Swamiji, the materialistic progress, the way they are carrying on today?
Prabhupāda: If you don't take advice from Kṛṣṇa, it will continue. You take advice of Kṛṣṇa; it will be all right. The disease is there; the treatment is there. If you take treatment, the disease will disappear. If you don't take, the disease will continue and you will die. That's all.
Jñāna: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. So we understand if it's energy there must be an energetic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, but Kṛṣṇa's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great, I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming. Why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, so huge, I mean to say, volume of water, gas, and everything as we see it is coming?
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) What others' argument? This is my challenge.
Yaśomatīnandana: Mr. Dhrug was pointing out...
Prabhupāda: Where is that materialistic leader? Here is. What is your argument? Huh? (laughter)
Yaśomatīnandana: He says that you cannot bring life, but you can bring death immediately. Why is that?
Prabhupāda: Huh? Death? He's already dead. What you can bring? Rascal, don't you see that he is already dead? If you have to bring something you have to bring life. Death is already there. (dog barking, woman yelling) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Bhāgavata has analyzed, yasyātmā-buddhi kunape tri-dhātuke. And this is the beginning of mistake, taking this body as everything and then bodily issues, bodily... Sva-dhiḥ kalātrādiṣu. And because I have got relation with some woman...
Prabhupāda: That is very good. /Tṛṇad api sunīcena/ taror api sahiṣṇunā/ amānin mānadena/ kīrtanīya sad hariḥ. That is the qualification for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, giving all respect to others, expecting no respect for oneself. These are the qualifications to become perfectly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁs kṣāntir ārjavam. Amanitva. Although he is very qualified, he says "No, no, no. I have no qualification." Amanitvam. This is amānitvam. (aside to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya. This is the beginning of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahims kṣāntir ārjavam. The materialistic, everyone, they're not amānitvam, our, "I'm so respectful."
Prabhupāda: He can say: "Here is gold. You dig here. Here is the gold mine." Then you get gold mine. And one who is not expert, simply he has understood that "In this area, there is gold mine," and they are simply fighting; everyone has come to take the gold. But without expert knowledge, they're simply fighting. They do not find gold. That is the position. So expert knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. He therefore begins: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body, the living force, that is the soul. Because that soul is there, it is changing body, different. Try to understand that active principle. And where is that understanding? They simply putting different theses. They do not, neither do they know antithesis or synthesis. So our.... We know the thesis, antithesis and synthesis, that this soul, living entity, is within this body. Now the body is important so long the soul is there. Otherwise, body is a lump of matter. So the soul is suffering. He's seeking after enjoyment, but he's suffering. So therefore.... The most prominent suffering is death. That he cannot avoid. Or he's not.... The so-called materialistic scientists, they have not been able, neither they do know, who is the sufferer or enjoyer. They take this body. The same fiber platform. So actually they are rascals. What is the value of the thesis, antithesis?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Sudāmā: I remember once you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that it took Arjuna less than forty-five minutes. He understood. But for us it is taking, for materialistic men...
Prabhupāda: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mūḍhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Sudāmā: (break) ...very curious: "What is the power and mystery of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, how he is doing so many things but yet he does not appear like these others yogis who are..., like Satya Sai Baba who is making magic and..."
Prabhupāda: And that is the philosophy of the Western countries.
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Siddha-svarūpa: Actually there is.... There is two factions in the Chinese schools now. One is saying to.... They're both materialistically based, but one is trying to stay on a position of self-sufficiency economically and not take from other countries or even trade, and the other school is to industrialize. And they're always fighting with their...
Prabhupāda: Oh, there are two schools?
Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: No, that is why, sir, this communism cannot survive, because they say that afterward the state will vanish. It will evaporate. How can it evaporate without spiritualism there at the back? They have a materialistic ideology and material, I mean, there are changes. There is nothing permanent in material. So the communism, so-called material communism, dialectic materialism of Karl Marx, are not full. (break)
Guru dāsa: Your name is man, and Dr. Patel.... You've been given a title, "Dr. Patel."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda gave an example that if you see a note on the floor...
Dr. Patel: Only name of God has value.
Prabhupāda: Practical application.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.
Carol Jarvis: Thank you very much. Bye bye.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They all take that this is some kind of a materialistic business, selling books and collecting money, and we purchase a beautiful temple...
Prabhupāda: Therefore I said that we are not material; it is all spiritual. That they do not know. Where is material? If everything is prepared and everything, there is Kṛṣṇa, then where is material? When it is misused, other than Kṛṣṇa, then it is material. Now, just like the university department and the criminal department. Where is the difference superficially? That's a building; that's a building. There are officer; there are officer. There are rooms; there are rooms. Why it is called criminal, prison house?
Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no....
Devotee (2): Last week we wrote letters to the newspaper, and they published them, showing our view. And in Whangarei.... It's another city, a hundred miles from here. It's near the farm up north, and the devotees chant there. And the businessmen complained. And the devotees wrote a letter criticizing the materialistic businessmen, and that they didn't care for the people, only they wanted money. And they printed it this big in the newspaper, completely criticizing, and the people liked it. They put it in everything, word for word what the devotees said. So it was good.
Prabhupāda: So there is agitation against chanting. That is also good. Yes, "Hare Kṛṣṇa is bad." (laughs)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They don't want to be bothered with Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say that. We say that you take credit as far as you have been successful. Why do you say there is no God? We protest against that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...there's a God, then they won't be making so many materialistic arrangements.
Prabhupāda: You don't require it. (break) ...so many materialistic improvements, we require open field like this. We require trees. That is nature's gift. Although we have got this car, we come here to take advantage of nature's gift. Why you have come here? The city was there. I don't like. So actually you enjoy nature's gift. Important persons, they work whole week in the city, and as soon as there is weekend they go to the village. Why? The enjoyment is in the village. They do not like to stay in the factory. It is disgusting. (break)
George Gullen: I understand that very clearly, and I think we're caught up terribly in matters that are not of the spirit. We're terribly caught up in materialistic things.
Prabhupāda: But material, that is temporary. This body, your body, my body, anyone's body, that is temporary. It will not stay. It has taken birth at a certain date, it will endure for certain years, and then it will be finished. But the spirit, that will continue. It will accept another body. Just like we are accepting, we are giving up our body, childhood body, accepting the body of a boy, then giving up the boyhood body, accepting the body of a young man. Similarly, this body.... Just like I am an old man. This will be finished, and I will accept another body. So the spirit soul is eternal, and the body is temporary.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) The question might arise that a jñānī is someone who is aware of his spiritual nature, that he's not this body, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Then the karmī is one who is, dehātma-buddhi, in the bodily concept of life, and he's desiring so many materialistic things. So how can it be that the karmī, who is after some material benefit, if he approaches Kṛṣṇa, he can be better off than the jñānī?
Prabhupāda: Because he has approached Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even he may be in the bodily concept?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That will be rectified. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. Huh? What is that? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). When one has come to the fire, some way or other, he'll be warm, gradually. That is the.... He has come to the right path. (break) ...kāmād bhayāt, krodhāt. Either.... Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa.... Just like gopīs, they were captivated. They were village girls. They did not know what is God, what is Brahman, nothing. But they were captivated: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful boy."
Kīrtanānanda: Then we find so many purported religious people. Just like Christians, they may say "Well, I believe in the soul," but nonetheless they are going on with their materialistic civilization.
Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Purport? "There are many pseudo meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Kṛṣṇa did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set forth for kṣatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder kṣatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart of a mundane man and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."
Prabhupāda: That is not the right way. Kṛṣṇa never said to Arjuna that "You haven't got to fight. You sit down, I shall do everything." He never said that. "You have to fight." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyaśacin. "And the result is already created by Me, but you have to make a manifestation of fighting." Just like our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Within eight or ten years we have developed so much. Is it humanly possible? It is Kṛṣṇa's plan. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You go and preach. Take the credit." Yes. It is His plan. Actually everything is done by Kṛṣṇa. He gives the credit to His devotee, that's all. You know the history of the Detroit temple (laughs)?
Prabhupāda: "Śrī Vyāsadeva said: All you have said about me is perfectly correct. Despite all this, I am not pacified. I therefore question you about the root cause of my dissatisfaction, for you are a man of unlimited knowledge due to your being the offspring of one, Brahmā, who is self-born, without mundane mother and father." Purport. "In the material world everyone is engrossed with the idea of identifying the body or the mind with the self. As such, all knowledge disseminated in the material world is related either with the body or with the mind, and that is the root cause of all despondencies. This is not always detected, even though one may be the greatest erudite scholar in materialistic knowledge. It is good, therefore, to approach a personality like Nārada to solve the root cause of all despondencies. Why Nārada should be approached is explained below."
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world." (purport) "The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing. But, according to Bhagavad-gītā, they are unintelligent and devoid of all sense. They try to enjoy this material world to the utmost limit and therefore always engage in inventing something for sense gratification. Such materialistic inventions are considered to be the advancement of human civilization, but the result is that people grow more and more violent and more and more cruel-cruel to animals and cruel to other human beings. They have no idea how to behave toward one another. Animal killing is very prominent amongst demoniac people. Such people are considered the enemies of the world because ultimately they will invent or create something which will bring destruction to all. Indirectly, this verse anticipates the invention of nuclear weapons, of which the whole world is today very proud. At any moment war may take place, and these atomic weapons may create havoc. Such things are created solely for the destruction of the world, and this is indicated here. Due to godlessness, such weapons are invented in human society; they are not meant for the peace and prosperity of the world."
Prabhupāda: Now, discuss.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, there is, if we think of not in terms of science, but just in terms of our day-to-day experience, in social, moral, ethical, all levels of consciousness, if one analyzes this a little carefully, the root cause of our complete ethical background at this time is mainly due to this theory that "You are from molecules, and when you finish your body you'll also go back to molecules. So don't worry about all these high-sounding philosophical words. You just enjoy whatever you want and do whatever you like to do." So this type of complete materialistic...
Prabhupāda: Irresponsible life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Vedic theory. That is explained in the Bhāgavatam.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And here he has a nice quote, Pasteur. Somebody can read that?
Hari-śauri: Says: "Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophers. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the works of the creator."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he believed actually completely in the divine concept, divine personality. But unfortunately this experiment has been misinterpreted by these demoniac scientists.
Prabhupāda: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of a man's and woman's semina is not very feasible. It is unacceptable."
Prabhupāda: Next verse.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Text two. Kalalaṁ tv eka-rātreṇa, pañca-rātreṇa budbudam.
Prabhupāda: He's giving description of one day, one night, next night, next night, like that, every description.
Prabhupāda: Either you become woman or vaiśya or śūdra, it doesn't matter, or any other pāpa-yoni, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, te 'pi yānti parām (BG 9.32). So this is the most liberal movement, that it doesn't matter what you are, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness then you become perfect. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He's on the Brahman platform, above all these different modes of material nature. These brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, these are differences on the material platform. But when you come to the spiritual platform, there is no such difference. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So we are trying to bring everyone to that spiritual platform. Therefore they cannot understand. They vision everything from materialistic point of view. They have no idea of spiritual life, therefore they misunderstand. But if we read thoroughly Bhagavad-gītā, then everything is clear. Sve sve karmaṇi means he must act according to his position.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Rāmeśvara: Ghostly haunted.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone, the materialistic man means ghostly haunted. He's talking so many nonsense. The whole grade, philosophy, science and everything, all ghostly talking, that's all. There is no reality. Just like the new science you said, what is that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Huh?
Prabhupāda: That new medical science?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Biomedical ethics.
Prabhupāda: A big name.
Jayatīrtha:
- yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
- na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
- asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
- (SB 5.5.4)
"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."
Prabhupāda: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it, immediately accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain.
Dayānanda: Some intelligent. People are working very hard for money, and they're very materialistic.
Prabhupāda: That is everywhere in the eastern part of the world. They are after money.
Dayānanda: And the foreigners who come here also, they are materialistic also.
Prabhupāda: Everywhere materialistic. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Spiritualistic means siddhi, perfection. Who cares for perfection? Bring money and enjoy. That's all. Who cares for perfection? They do not know what is perfection. They think that you get money, you live comfortably as far as possible, and after death, everything's finished. Is it not? This is the philosophy. Who cares to know that there is life after death and better life, better planet, better world? This is not at all good, it is full of miseries. They are driving all day, car, but they do not think it is tiresome. They think it is pleasure. To have a car and drive whole day, they do not feel that is tiresome. They think "I have got a car, I'm driving, people are seeing. It is pleasure."
Prabhupāda: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.
Pradyumna: You said in the Bhāgavatam just that, that we are afraid of the materialistic men.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personally I feel, I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.
Dayānanda: They think that the countries that have the materialistic advancement or scientific advancements, that they are very well situated.
Prabhupāda: Well, scientific advancement, all this nonsense you can say. Just like Iran. God has given the oil underneath the ground, you are so proud. But if God would not give you the oil, then you starve in the desert. Then talk of improvement, nonsense. You're dependent on the oil. That is given by God. By God's grace, you have got some stock of oil, and there is good demand of oil. Then you are proud of making advancement. You are depending on the oil. The oil is supplied by God. You're dependent. Where is your independence? When the oil is finished, then your all pride is finished. Where is your independence?
Prabhupāda: He has performed all the ritualistic devotion. There are many statements in the śāstras, that when you come to the devotional platform, you haven't go to perform these ritualistic ceremonies. Because the end of ritualistic ceremony, you have come to the point. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of dharma is rejected here. This karma-kāṇḍa, by performing some ritualistic ceremony you may go to a heavenly planet, but what benefit you will have? That one has to understand. You can enjoy there materialistic, highest type of materialistic civilization means eating, sleeping, mating. These things you can get, but you have to come back again. Kṣine punye martya-lokaṁ viśanti (BG 9.21). So what benefit there is? No benefit. Just like in British period, some Englishman was made viceroy of India. Then after five years they sent to London, again with his bag, marketing in the street. This has been seen practically.
Prabhupāda: "Now I have got this big building. Let me live very comfortably." Then it is very dangerous. So long we work for Kṛṣṇa, it is Kṛṣṇa's, I am still nothing. And as soon as I take it, "Oh, now I have got very good, comfortable place. Make me again something." Take that as dangerous. Otherwise, there is no danger. Therefore we have to be engaged always in Kṛṣṇa's service. Not that "Because we have got this nice building and income also, let us now sit down and eat." Then you'll stop. You shall have to be engaged always. Because our brain is materialistic, as soon as there is little chance of utilizing for sense gratification, mind: "Yes, yes. Do it." Still, we have to do it. Prāpañcikatayā buddhyā hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ mumukṣubhiḥ parityāgaḥ phalgu vairāgyam kathyate. Rūpa Gosvāmī. Hari-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Things which are connected to Kṛṣṇa, you should never think it that it is material.
Prabhupāda: You are following? Go on.
Devotee (3): "...and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He was very friendly. Actually, he is the organizer, main person. He showed that, "Here Swamiji was cooking." (laughs) Yes. I was guest for fifteen days, that Dalmia. Not this Jayadal, his big brother, Ram-Krishna. He asked me that his family... He wanted to construct a little cottage in his house, "You can live here. I'll give you a nice cottage." I thought, "No, it is not good to be patronized by a viṣayī." This is not good. Fully dependent on a materialistic... And he's first-class materialist.
Girirāja: Yes. He's very notorious.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Actually, I thought he's good man, but after woman.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: One them has lots of wives.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Trivikrama: To teach. "I've come to give."
Dr. Patel: I understand. The modern materialistic, I mean, advancement of society with this modern technology will, I mean...
Prabhupāda: No, even from that point of view, I was taking aeroplane. Aeroplane was flying. So we admit this is contribution of the Western technology. But it is not safe. But what I am giving, it is safe. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato... So our, this contribution of India's culture and this contribution, far different. That is not safe. At any moment you'll be finished. But here-svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This Manipur state is mentioned in the Bhāgavata. And these people say that three thousand years before, there was no civilization.
Dr. Patel: The śūdras are ruling the world over, not only in India. Because Nixon was less than a śūdra, they way he carried out himself, the highest authority of the most advanced state materialistically.
Prabhupāda: Now they are going to take care of it, these brāhmaṇas.
Dr. Patel: But he made a very bad show. The place where a man like...
Prabhupāda: Washington.
Mr. Asnani: He sleeps in the nighttime, and there's trouble in his thoughts. Whereas a spiritual man, he's awoke in the nighttime and sleep in the daytime.
Prabhupāda: First of all let us understand what is sleeping and awakening. This is the real understanding. The materialistic man, he's sleeping about self-realization. He has no information.
Mr. Asnani: He has no?
Prabhupāda: Information. But the spiritualistic man, he's awakened in that, that this life is meant for self-realization. So the materialistic man, he does not know. He's kept in darkness of night, and the spiritualistic man is awakened. That is the difference.
Mr. Asnani: Why the night...?
Dr. Patel: You can't be gangsters. There is some difference between them and you.
Rāmeśvara: This scholar from Harvard University, he's explained it very nicely. He says that today Christianity and Judaism are materialistic, and the people who follow those religions have misunderstood their own faith, and the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is reminding them. And it is the work of God.
Prabhupāda: How nice he has...
Jagadīśa: In the Kṛṣṇa book, when Kamsa was being a little lenient with Vasudeva, Nārada Muni thought to speed things up, so he instigated Kamsa to become frightened about Vasudeva and Devaki and their children. So similarly, it appears that in order to speed up Kṛṣṇa consciousness's infiltration and overtaking this materialistic society, that all of these brainwashing charges and...
Prabhupāda: It has got... The chanting has got spiritual power. That will rectify everything. Even there is misunderstanding, it will be rectified. That is spiritual power.
Rāmeśvara: The chanting for the mass of people is by reading your books.
Prabhupāda: That will rectify everything. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). All misunderstanding gone away.
Dr. Sharma: Actually, we never had the geographical conception of the nation. Only conception was the religious conception. Wherever Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. That has been the concept through all the centuries, until 1947, you know, and then we had these boundaries. Otherwise, Kṛṣṇa is worshiped in north, He is worshiped in south, He is worshiped in east, He is worshiped in west, and there are temples marking that plain. And that's what we call India. And that has been throughout the centuries. Not the geographical boundaries they have given now to India. Really you can make out the definition of India, where Kṛṣṇa is worshiped, that is India. And that can be anywhere now, including worship in the United States or in Canada. Because He was the man, He was our Lord, He came here. He gave us the religion, He gave us the life, He gave us this... So now these politicians are taking that concept away, and they are changing the consciousness of the whole nation now. They want to change the consciousness. They want to make them materialistic. They want to make them greedy. They want to...
Prabhupāda: And what materialistic advancement they have done?
Dr. Sharma: The Communism, doesn't believe in God, etcetera, etcetera. It is simply fabricated things of the populace. Even Karl Marx when he wrote, he didn't talk anything about God. It was Engels, who was a contemporary, a great philosopher, materialistic philosopher, he started infusing certain things about this. And later on, because of being dogmatic, being wrapped up in this scientific discovery, we're being misled, and they would take many things for granted.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is insanity.
Guest (1): And this type of world, which is full of temporal pleasures and materialistic pleasures, they are being carried away and misguided.
Prabhupāda: So that is stated in the Śrīmad... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are interested only in the external nature, bahir-artha. They have no sense of understanding what is within the body. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. So the leaders are blind and they are leading blind men. Society is in chaotic condition. You are going?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... We're trying to impose some preconceived idea onto this. As soon as that happens, this knowledge is blocked. Because the whole attitude shouldn't be like that. One should come out of service and devotion, not with some mental, materialistic speculations.
Prabhupāda: Did you know that story, the Nārada was going to Vaikuṇṭha? Nārada came back and replied to a cobbler... Cobbler asked him what Nārāyaṇa is doing. "He has taken one elephant and He's drawing through the hole of a needle like this and again taking." The learned brāhmaṇa, he began to laugh. "These are all stories." And the cobbler began to cry, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, can..." Nārada inquired, "How do you believe that elephant is being drawn through the hole of needle?" "No, why not? I'm daily seeing by sitting under this banyan tree, and within a fruit there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains the big tree."
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Vṛndāvana there are so many smārta-brāhmaṇas, but Bombay is a very materialistic, modern, Western city. Some of our devotees have already been invited, Acyutānanda and one other, for themselves opening a temple. So it was the common opinion of most of the devotees, "What is the need of hiring these fourteen, fifteen brāhmaṇas? The people don't care in Bombay for this."
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rather, they may be more impressed to have the Western devotees doing it, and we save so much...
Prabhupāda: Western brāhmaṇas.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I'm just thinking about looking... I want to read our memorandum, because as far as I remember, the life members have the right to vote in our Society. That may be one way. They may read the memorandum and see that "We can vote." Then, by doing some politics, they create some difficulty by voting and put one of these materialistic men in charge. Good reason to remain with us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They won't do anything while you are present. It's better that you should remain with us. Then they won't be able to do anything.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa will protect you. Try.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They're very politically minded.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Fact, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually I don't think these men like Bajaj or any of them could possibly make this much money even in material activities, what to speak of spiritual. Spiritual, they lose money. They have to support it. But we have such a genuine religious movement that it supports itself. We don't require to construct big materialistic enterprises. We simply preach, and Kṛṣṇa supplies all the money.
Jayādvaita: Bajaj is just burdening the world with motorcycles, and you're providing the highest subject matter for hearing and chanting.
Prabhupāda: Where there is need of money, send there. I mean to say, just like Africa and other backwards... I am simply dreaming, and you are actually on the field.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We are actually what?
Brahmānanda: On the field.
| Page Title: | Materialistic (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 30 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=88, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 88 |