Material universe (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Interview -- March 9, 1968, San Francisco:
Prabhupāda: So we get information from authoritative books that there are 8,400,000's of different grades of life, and there are 900,000's of aquatic life, two million species of plants and trees, about eleven hundred thousand species of life of birds, three million types of species of beast, and 400,000 species of this human body. Out of that 400,000's, different kinds of human bodies, the civilized body is a great boon. At that time we can make further progress. Either we can transfer to other planets... The standard of living, comforts, are many, many thousands times better than this planet. But in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, we get information that within this material universe, wherever you go, either you remain in this planet or you go to the moon planet or to the sun planet, or there are millions and trillions of planets... The highest planetary system is called Brahmaloka. There the duration of life is very, very great. You cannot calculate even twelve hours of their days. These are described in this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Sahasra-yuga-paryantam arhad yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). Four hundred... Three thousand years is the duration... Four hundred and, yes, four hundred and three thousands of years, solar years, is the one unit of yuga. Such thousand yugas makes twelve hours of the Brahmaloka planet. Similarly, they live there for a hundred years. But these four things, namely birth, death, old age, and disease, these four things are everywhere, either you live in this planet or moon planet or sun planet or any other planet. The duration of life may be very, very great. Just like in comparison to the ant, our life, human being—we have got hundred years age—so to the ant it may be very astonishing: "Oh, how such a great length of time one can live?" Similarly, we may be astonished by hearing twelve hours duration of Brahmaloka, but actually there is. But still, you cannot avoid death. Death is there.
Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:
Journalist: Yes. We have it at the office. I've seen it.
Prabhupāda: There are descriptions. There are descriptions of these things. There is description of another nature which is called spiritual nature. This is material nature. The sky, as far as you can see, this is one universe. Similarly, there are millions of universes. And all these together, that is material sky. And beyond that, there is spiritual sky, which is far, far greater than this. And there are spiritual planets. So this information we have got from Bhagavad-gītā, what to speak of other Vedic literatures. Bhagavad-gītā, it is daily read by practically all over the world, but they do not understand it. Simply they become student of Bhagavad-gītā, or simply just to think falsely that "I am God." That's all. But they don't take any particular information. There is a verse in the Eighth Chapter, paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). There is another nature beyond this material nature which is eternal. This nature is coming into existence, again dissolution. But that nature is eternal. These things are there. Similarly, there, planets are also eternal. There, living entities, they are also eternal. That is called sanātana. Sanātana means eternal, without any end, without any beginning. But this nature, as we have, this body has got a beginning and it has end, similarly anything, this cosmic nature has a beginning and it has an end. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is how to transfer our self to that nature, eternal nature.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Also there is a story in the Bhāgavatam about the girls; they were offering to Lord Śiva.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is another feature of Lord Caitanya. He taught in that instruction that there is no need of worshiping demigods. The incident is that in India the unmarried girls, they are encouraged to worship Lord Śiva especially in the month of Vaiśākha, March-April. And they will go to the Ganges side and prepare Śivaliṅga, and they'll... That means Śiva will be pleased upon them to offer a husband like Lord Śiva. Śiva is very peaceful and very great devotee and most powerful at the same time. So that is the ideal husband. So they brought worshipable paraphernalia for worshiping Śiva on the bank of the Ganges, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, as naughty boy, approached them. "Oh, my dear sister, what you are doing? Oh, you have brought so many nice things. Give it to Me, and Lord Śiva will be very much pleased. Oh, you are worshiping Durga? She is My maidservant and Lord Śiva is a great devotee of Me. So you please offer Me all these things; they will be satisfied. You don't require to offer separately." By this, He wanted to instruct that worshiping the Supreme Lord is the appeasement of other demigods. You don't require to appease them separately. This instruction. Then some girls will hesitate. Then He will curse them that "You'll be married with an old man having seven children by his former wife." So they will be afraid, "Oh, maybe this boy is cursing..." Then out of fear they'll offer. Then He said, "Oh, you'll have a very nice young husband and you'll have seven children by him." In this way it was going on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya is always doing this on a planet in the material, some material universe? These girls... All of these pastimes are eternal pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Hm? No. These are not eternal pastimes. They are instructive particularly for this planet. In the eternal Vaikuṇṭha, Lord Caitanya is engaged in chanting and dancing. That's all.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:
Śyāmasundara: This dictionary gives a definition of necessity. It says that it is a constraint or compulsion regarded as a law prevailing through the material universe and governing all human action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Governing all human action. God knows how many necessities you can create. And for all of them the supply is there. But you do not know, you take it as chance it has come. It is your foolishness that whatever necessities may be... God knows that so many necessities can be. It may be millions types. And for all of them there is immediately supply. So this rascal does not know that it is already planned. (break) The proprietor is living there. The servants are living there. The cats and dogs are also living there. The trees and plants are also living there, and insects and microbes and snakes and rats. So many living entities in the same building. Why they are different? What is the answer? They have been given the same chance of living in the same house, born in the same house. As the proprietor's son is born in the same house, these also, they are also taking birth the same place. Why they are denied the same advantage? And if they are denied, who has denied it? What is the answer to this question? They are all living entities.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the material planet, material universe, is a real image.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Image. Yes. Mirage.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mirage.
Prabhupāda: Yes, mirage.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No mirage is... Mirage is not the real image....
Prabhupāda: No, it is illusory. Just like I see there is water in the desert. There is no water. This is illusion. But actually there is water. Therefore I get the conception that there is water. Water is there, but it is not there. Similarly these varieties is here, what we see, the varieties, enjoyment, that is only like that mirage. We have got the experience of water. But we are illusioned. We are seeing in a false place there is water. Similarly, we living entities, we are meant for enjoyment, but we are seeking enjoyment in a false place. Or illusion. Just like animal runs after that desert water. But the intelligent man knows: "Oh, that, there is no water. It looks like water."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is a reflection from the sand.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, there is no, actually there is no water. But the animal runs after that water and dies out of thirst. Because they, he cannot satiate his thirst by such illusory water. Similarly we, ignorant, avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ, we are trying to manufacture so many things to satisfy our thirst of joyfulness, but we are being baffled. Because it is illusion. Therefore real intelligence is: "Then where is the reality? Where is real water?" That is intelligence. Bhāgavata gives: vāstava-vastu vedyam atra. Vāstava vastu. "Real reality, you'll find here." (end)
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:
Girirāja: (reads synonyms to:) "draṣṭum—to see..."
Prabhupāda: How one can see? Suppose I am seeing this material sky. I cannot see what are there, not even the stars at the present moment, although we know there are millions and trillions of stars. So this is my power of seeing. So how can I see all the universes in the body of..., unless he gets a special power from Kṛṣṇa to see.
Girirāja: (completes synonyms) "Translation: But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence."
Prabhupāda: Now, this is Kṛṣṇa's power. Let us understand. A teeny aeroplane is floating in the air, and it is making so much sound. And millions and trillions of planets are floating, there is no sound. There is no sound. (break) ...if you take it and fix it up... What is that? One thousand or more than, one thousand miles.
Dr. Patel: A second.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This earth, per hour.
Dr. Patel: Earth is rotating and also going round... It has got two movements.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, but we cannot understand any movement, but it is moving. The force is there.
Dr. Patel: Shall I go further?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:
Mahāṁsa: Yes.
Girirāja: (break) ...the position of being Kṛṣṇa's parents or hearing Bhagavad-gītā or being a cowherd boyfriend, can be filled by different living entities qualified in the different universes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But that makes them sound like they are posts instead of individuals. I thought you once said that Arjuna, he always stays in the material universes. He's a person and he always travels with Kṛṣṇa, not that it's a post.
Prabhupāda: Everyone, all the associates of Kṛṣṇa, like Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Girirāja: Right now Kṛṣṇa is in so many different universes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: And He is having the same pastimes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: And in each universe there is an Arjuna.
Prabhupāda: Everything.
Girirāja: Everything. So is it the same living soul, Arjuna, in each universe, or a different living being may be taking that position?
Prabhupāda: Take it for granted, different. What is the wrong there? After all, everyone is Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Ānanda cinmāyā-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). We are also expansion. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But still, we have got individuality. Kṛṣṇa proved it—I explained that in Vṛndāvana when everything was stolen by Brahmā. Again another batch of cows and calves and cowherds boys. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. What is the difficulty for Kṛṣṇa? Is it clear or not? You wanted to clarify. Is it clear or not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, you said the answer is that it's different persons, not just one Arjuna, not just one Yaśodā.
Prabhupāda: Just like I have got hundred branches. Each branch I have got a set of my sitting room, of my books and everything. And wherever I go I see the same place. If it is possible for an ordinary man to have a hundred sets of the same thing, why not for Kṛṣṇa?
Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:
Prabhupāda: He gets equality, attains equality position. Yes, purport?
Nitāi: To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word. But for the personalist, or pure devotee, one has to go still further to become engaged in pure devotional service. This means that one who is engaged in pure devotional service to the Supreme Lord is already in a state of liberation, called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), oneness with the Absolute. Without being one with the Supreme, the Absolute, one cannot render service unto Him. In the absolute conception, there is no difference between the served and the servitor; yet the distinction is there, in a higher spiritual sense.
In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value. This is the brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, and this stage is attained very easily by the pure devotee. In that stage of existence, the idea of becoming one with the Supreme Brahman and annihilating one's individuality becomes hellish, and the idea of attaining the heavenly kingdom becomes phantasmagoria, and the senses are like broken serpents' teeth. As there is no fear of a serpent with broken teeth, so there is no fear from the senses when they are automatically controlled. The world is miserable for the materially infected person, but for a devotee the entire world is as good as Vaikuṇṭha, or the spiritual sky. The highest personality in this material universe is no more significant than an ant for a devotee. Such a stage can be achieved by the mercy of Lord Caitanya, who preached pure devotional service in this age.
O'Grady: Could you read the opening little bit again?
Nitāi: In the purport?
O'Grady: Yeah.
Nitāi: "To the impersonalist, achieving the brahma-bhūta stage, becoming one with the Absolute, is the last word."
O'Grady: O.K. Now, is the Absolute internal or external?
Prabhupāda: Absolute has no internal or external. That is Absolute. If there is internal and external, it is not Absolute.
Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:
Prabhupāda: Geneva Lake. And few step after French lake.
Yogeśvara: Because French is a border of Geneva lake also. Therefore sometimes it's considered French.
Prabhupāda: So the sky is one. Sky is one. So in the sky, in the atmosphere, where God is forgotten, that is called material sky. And the sky where God is not forgotten, that is spiritual sky. Just like the sky is one, and the sun is one. But when your eyes are covered by cloud, you say the cloudy sky. The sky is not cloudy. The sky is one, it is always clear. But some portion of the sky there is cloud, and you say, "This is cloudy." (break) Similarly, materialism means when you forget Kṛṣṇa, that is material. And when you know Kṛṣṇa and act for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual.
Prof. Regamay: Now, one question still. Why in the Ṛg Veda there is not even the name of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, Viṣṇu, there is. Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa, I have already. There is no difference.
Prof. Regamay: Viṣṇu, yes, but not the name of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, in Atharva Veda there is name of Kṛṣṇa.
Prof. Regamay: Viṣṇu, yes, I know that the...
Prabhupāda: So it doesn't require that in every Veda there should be, because the Upaniṣads, they are impersonal study, negation of the material existence. That is negation. There is no positivity. So when you come to the positivity, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa.
Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:
Guest (2): Stars and planets, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (2): So actually heaven is...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Guest (2): ...in this material universe?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you say, "United States of America," that's actually a place. There are living entities. There are men and mountains, rivers. Everything is there. Similarly, all these planets, they are inhabited by living entities. There are similarly cities and towns and mountains and rivers and oceans. Everything is there—of different pattern. Just like the moon planet. It is... The temperature is 200 degree below zero. So you cannot go and live there. But there are living entities who can live there. Just like even on this planet, there are living entities in the Arctic region, but for us it is very difficult to live there. And there are different climatic influences. Even on this planet. One place is suitable for one kind of man, another place is suitable for another. Just like we are Indian. We cannot tolerate such, I mean, what is called, pinching, cool. So similarly, in India you cannot tolerate scorching heat. So for each and every planet there are different patterns of living entities. They can live. Just like you cannot live within water. For that reason you cannot say nobody can live in the water. That is foolishness. You cannot live. You say. So there are so many fishes, varieties of fishes. They are living. Don't carry your present experience to others. That is not very good argument. Now, here the so-called scientists, they are saying in other planets there is no living entity. Why? They are putting so many reasons, that "This is lacking. This is lacking." But what do you know, what is lacking and how...? These things are not accepted. You do not know anything about the other planets. How you say there is no living entity?
Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 12, 1974, Los Angeles:
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If they think a little carefully. Then there is no reason why they can't accept Him.
Prabhupāda: That you have to do, to convince them that "You think little carefully. You are advertising yourself as scientist, but you are talking without any care." (pause)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have statistical data about the creation of the material universe, the material world. For example, like in a...
Prabhupāda: We have got also.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, yes. Four yugas, the four yugas comprise four million, three hundred thousand years. The yugas together, four. The...
Prabhupāda: Forty-three hundred thousands of years, four yugas.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, four million, three hundred twenty thousand.
Prabhupāda: No, no, four yugas. Do you mean to say?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Altogether.
Prabhupāda: All yugas, Satya, Treta, Dvapara, Kali, the total years are forty-three hundred thousands of years.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:
Svarūpa Dāmodara: After complete annihilation and then, when the creation starts again...
Prabhupāda: There is no question of annihilation.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I mean the material universe.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is manifest, not manifest. Not annihilation. The energy is there. Just like sometimes I become angry, and sometime I am peaceful. But that means anger is annihilated. Anger is there. It may be manifest at any time. There is no question of annihilation. You say like that because actually it is vyakta, avyakta: manifest and nonmanifest.
Rūpānuga: We don't see it, so we say it's not manifest.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So during this time there are still living entities which are not manifested.
Prabhupāda: Living are already there, but his desires are manifest or nonmanifest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the living entities are there, but they stop manifesting the different bodies.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing, that you cannot see him without body. That is your defect. There are so many living entities in the air. You cannot see them. That is your defect. Therefore, Vedānta-śāstra-cakśuṣā: "You should see through the śāstra, not with your so-called eyes."
Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: What is the name of those people?
Devotees: Eskimos.
Prabhupāda: Eskimos. Is that very good living? Just see. They won't come here. This is māyā. This is māyā. Āvaraṇātmikā-śakti. They, he's living in hell but māyā is covering: "No, it is not hell; it is heaven." This is māyā. Similarly all of us, we are living in this universe, material universe. We are thinking "This is all good. What is the use of God and going back to home, back to Godhead?" They do not take it very seriously. Although we give all information that "You'll haven't, you haven't got to work there. You'll get everything. Your life is eternal and blissful, and full of knowledge," they are not interested. Plugged.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Plugged.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Plugged ear, er, ears, yes. "You go on speaking, but I have plugged my ear." (laughter)
Trivikrama: "Chant, chant, chant."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "Can't, can't, can't." That's it. (laughter) This is going on. The best intelligence is that "We are hearing so much about the spiritual world; there is so much happiness. Why not try one life? Like cats and dogs, I have tried so many lives. Why not sacrifice one life? Where is the loss there?" But no, they are so many, fallen, they'll not accept.
Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:
Amogha: The steersman or the pilot?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the chief man. So the guru is there. He is the chief man, giving direction, or the captain. And others are plying, and the boat is also strong, and the wind is also favorable. In this circumstances, if you cannot cross, then you make suicide. The śāstras are there. That is favorable wind. You get the way. And the spiritual master is directing, "Do like this." And you have got a nice boat and you are plying. Now cross over. Very big ocean in the material world. Just see the sky, how big it is. So we have to cross this material sky, penetrate the covering, then go to the spiritual sky. Then you are safe. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvaḥ anyaḥ 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). That place, even after destruction of this whole material world, that is safe. So we have to go there, plying the boat. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, "You rascal, give up everything. Surrender unto Me. And surrender unto Me. Follow My instruction as I have given. Then you are safe." But that they will not do. They will try to cheat Kṛṣṇa by interpretation, "This means this. This means that." That they will do, these rascals, big, big rascals. Kṛṣṇa says something, and they will misinterpret. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "No, no, it is not to the Kṛṣṇa person." Just see how misleading these rascals. Why you should interpret upon Kṛṣṇa's word? If you have got your own philosophy, you write another book. Why do you touch Bhagavad-gītā? This is their cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is a popular book. Gandhi also took Bhagavad-gītā for his political diplomacy. This is going on. And they'll never agree to accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They'll never agree. The other day I was there in Kurukṣetra. They have got their own plan-mānava-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You give up all these. Kick out all this so-called rascaldom.
Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:
Satsvarūpa: But they say that even what they can't see, it's more of the same.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Satsvarūpa: They've made some conclusion by their mathematics as to what they can see. Whatever they can't see, it's still more of the same, material sky and planets. There's nothing beyond it.
Prabhupāda: Then seeing and not seeing, the same thing? That is, means you see or not see... Is that mean, that seeing or not seeing? This is contradictory. Either you see or you don't see. These are two things. (laughter) But what is this "I see, I don't see"?
Viṣṇujana: For that, they spend millions of dollars on a telescope.
Prabhupāda: And just see. That which is impossible, they are trying for that. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, that's all. When your senses are imperfect, then what you will see? Whatever you see, that is imperfect. So what is the meaning of seeing? Therefore our seeing is śāstra-cakṣuṣāt: "We should see through the authorized scriptures." That is our... You will see in the description of Śukadeva Gosvāmī of the whole universe, conclusion, Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "So far I have described as I have heard." He never says, "As I have seen." This is required. (break) ...that we believe in the creation. And others also, just like Christians, they also believe God created. But who has seen God is creating? Who has seen? Simply hear from God. He says, "I have created." That's all. But if you challenge, "I have not seen that You have created; neither I have seen You," then how can you believe? God says, "I have created," so those who are God believers, they will accept that. So what is the use of seeing again, observatory? We trust in God, but don't trust in His word. This is going on. You write in America, "We trust in God," but don't trust in His word. (laughs) Just see. If God you trust, then whatever God says, you believe. "No, that we cannot do."
Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:
Prabhupāda:
- oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
- jñānāñjana-śalākayā
- cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
- tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
(I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.)
Ladies and gentlemen, regarding Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... (about microphone:) It is working? We are talking about the spiritual existence of the living being. By evolutionary process we come to the human form of life, and here we have got developed consciousness. We can decide now which way to go forward. There are different planetary system. That we can experience. We can see innumerable planets, upwards and downwards. So the upper planetary system is called Svargaloka, or the heavenly planets, and the middle planetary system is called Martyaloka or Bhurloka, in which we are staying at the present moment, and the down planetary system is called Pātālaloka or downwards. Downwards means fall down, upwards means getting promotion, and middle means we remain where we are now. That is... Indication is given in the Bhagavad-gītā, ūrdhvaṁ gacchanti sattva-sthā: (BG 14.18) "Those who are cultivating the modes of goodness, they are promoted to the higher planetary system." And madhye tiṣṭhanti rājasāḥ. "Those who are passionate or under the modes of passion, they remain in the middle planetary system." And jaghanya-guṇa-vṛtti-sthā adho gacchanti tāmasāḥ: "And those (whose) character is very abominable, they go down." And beyond this, there is another nature. That is called spiritual nature, which is beyond this material universe. There, we understand, that is eternal. This material nature is not eternal. It is manifested or created, and again it is dissolved or annihilated. But beyond this material nature, there is another nature.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:
Prabhupāda: So space traveling induces a man to accept God?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think it's a material conception, that God is in the heavens, above the clouds.
Pañca-draviḍa: According to Bhāgavatam, these...
Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Beyond this material universe, very, very far away.
Hrdayananda: But another astronaut who went, he had religious experience, and after coming back he became missionary.
Prabhupāda: That is natural.
Sudāmā: Another astronaut went insane.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Sudāmā: And another astronaut went insane, like a madman.
Prabhupāda: Hm. What was the reason?
Sudāmā: For his insanity? He could not explain.
Jayatīrtha: Insanity is also a result of sinful activities.
Pañca-draviḍa: Too much passion.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? We live in this material world, and we're in so much ignorance that we don't know who it belongs to. Is that due to sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is this?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We live in the material world, and we don't perceive who it actually belongs to, like living in a house, not knowing who the owner is. So is this sense of ignorance due to sinful activities?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Suppose if I go to America and if you do not know what is the political constitution of America, how the country is being managed, that is my foolishness. I must know that in America there is a president, the government is like this, the law is like this. Then I am intelligent. And if I do not know anything, if I think everything is automatically going on, then I am foolish rascal. They think like that, "Everything is going on, nature." They cannot explain what is the nature. Even this flower growing, the tree is growing; foolish people say, "This is nature," but intelligent person knows what is the law behind it, acting. That is intelligence and foolish. Nothing can happen. These big, big so-called scientists, they are talking of accidents. That is another rascal. Accidents, why? Why accident? This flower is not growing in this tree, and this flower is not growing in this tree by accident. Why it is not happening? Accidents means that. There is no law. Something happen without any law. That is accident. But we are generally seeing that this flower never grows in this tree and this flower never grows in this tree. Where is accident?
Gurukṛpā: It's not accident.
Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:
Yadubara: So that subtle reality is existing side by side with this gross reality.
Prabhupāda: Reality is in the spiritual world. This is imitation reality. Real reality is in the spiritual world.
Hari-śauri: We have to go left here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) The material universes are like a produce of Mahā-Viṣṇu.
Prabhupāda: A big dream, that's all. Material existence means a big dream. How long you'll dream? So long you are in this body. And as long as the body is finished, your dream is finished. Your nation, your society, your friends, your money, your bank, everything finished. Is it not a dream? Then dream another—you become cats and dogs or demigods. You dream in a different way. You are now dreaming as American; next life you may dream something else.
Bharadvāja: So every man has his own world that he's living in?
Prabhupāda: Eh? He creates his own world. Nothing is own—temporary—he creates, and Kṛṣṇa gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy." Hare nāma, hare nāma.
Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:
Interviewer: Painting of the spiritual sky?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's a picture of the entire creation. It shows many different... Each of these spheres is a planet. And you may notice that on the right hand bottom corner there is a darker area. That darker portion is known as the material world. By world we don't mean just mean this planet; we mean a composite of all of the material universes. But these only make up one small portion of the entire creation. Just for our understanding it's said to be about one fourth of the creation, the entire composite of all the material universes. The other three-fourths are made up of spiritual planets, which are self-illuminating. There's no need of sunshine, or moon, light or electricity. (break) ...and full of knowledge. Whereas here life is very temporary and it's not always blissful and there's a lot of ignorance also.
Interviewer: But you are living in a spiritual planet here?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, this planet is part of the material universe, but because our consciousness is Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious, practically we are not affected very much by the conditions of the material world. Just like one of the conditions is fearfulness of death. But because we're...
Prabhupāda: I can give one example. Just like royal throne. The king is there, and a bug is there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: On a royal throne there's a king...
Prabhupāda: And the bug.
Rāmeśvara: Also a mosquito may be there also.
Prabhupāda: But the mosquito is mosquito, and the king is king, although they are sitting on the same place.
Bali-mardana: Both sitting on the throne.
Rāmeśvara: Everyone is here on this planet. Some people are affected by the material conditions...,
Prabhupāda: He's mosquito.
Rāmeśvara: He's the bug.
Prabhupāda: This is the best example. On the throne, both of them are sitting, but king's consciousness and mosquito's consciousness are different. It is not because they are on the same throne, therefore of the same conscious. Mosquito's business is to bite, and king's business is to rule over.
Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: Well, starting, just like when there is a seed sown, the starting is there. Now it grows a tree and there is fruit, there is flowers. The fruit is green now. When it is yellow mango and ripe, you can take. The beginning is when you sow the seed. Just like child. The father puts the seed within the womb of the mother. The body begins from that moment, grows and grows. When it is fully grown up it comes out and acts and then walks. So beginning is there. You can begin at any moment. But it is spiritual, it does not take so much time. You should remember spiritual. Just like speed, there are different kinds of speed. Mental speed and physical speed. Physical speed, you have got a very good nice airplane. Still, you have to take ten hours to reach London. And mental speed, you can immediately, within a second, go to London. And spiritual speed, still more. Kṛṣṇa says tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma mām eti (BG 4.9), as soon as you give up the body you immediately go to Kṛṣṇa. That is spiritual speed. Immediately. Not that so many miles, oh, Kṛṣṇaloka is far, far above this material sky, then spiritual sky. No. The spiritual speed is so high that tyaktvā dehaṁ, as soon as you give up this body, immediately. You can compare material speed and mental speed. Although you haven't got spiritual idea, still, we can at least imagine what is that spiritual speed. The mental speed is so rapid that by the speedy airplane I'll have to take four hours, you can reach there in four seconds by mental speed. That is with our experience. Then we can imagine how speedy is spiritual. It is actually known by education. It is a science. It is not sentiment. And everything is there.
Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:
Hari-śauri: They say the material universe is causeless.
Prabhupāda: Material universe is caused by, that is...
Hari-śauri: They say that it is causeless, there's nothing beyond it.
Prabhupāda: No, how it can be? Material... Suppose matter. Now this wood is dead matter. Wherefrom it has come?
Hari-śauri: Well, the...
Prabhupāda: Not "well," first of all, study this. Wherefrom this wood has come?
Hari-śauri: From a tree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And wherefrom the tree has come?
Hari-śauri: From the ground.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Hari-śauri: So the material elements are already there and...
Prabhupāda: Bīja, bīja. Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. You sow the seed, there will come out a tree, and from that tree there will be big trunk and you cut the tree, then you get wood.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Room Conversation With Son (Vrindavan De) -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They never get tired of trying.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They think by changing the body... (microphone moving) ...demigod's... That is called mṛtyu-saṁsāra. The facility is in that you have to die, you have to take again birth and again begin the same tasting, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam. No improvement of taste but improvement of the container. If you go by bullock cart and if you go by motorcar, the transport is the same. But we are thinking, "Now we have improved scientific." That's all. First of all improve that you'll not die. Because you are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). So where is that improvement? That improvement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9).
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today in the class we read a purport of Your Divine Grace's from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, a very beautiful purport in which the verse says that Bhārata-varṣa is karma-kṣetra. It is the place for fruitive activities. And the other varṣas is where you enjoy the results of those activities. So then you explain the verse, that how the living entity is wandering all over the material universe, but actually he has not improved his condition at all. It is... You explain that it's simply a waste of time. He's not using his human form of life. So when you come on this planet, you should use it to get a guru. Otherwise, simply wandering up and down, up and down.
Prabhupāda: Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān (CC Madhya 19.151). This information is obtained by the most fortunate person. What is the use of wandering in this way?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That verse was in the purport. You quoted it there also.
Prabhupāda: That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift. Foolish persons are trying to improve. So what is that improvement? The same struggle for existence.
Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: What is that bell?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That bell? It didn't ring four times earlier. (discusses with Upendra) Yeah, there is a bell in the front of the temple which people sometimes ring as they enter. Do you want to hear the purport to this verse? Yes? Purport. There are two sides of the transcendental manifestations of the Supreme Lord, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. For the pure devotees He is the constant companion, as in the case of His becoming one of the family members of the Yadu dynasty, or His becoming the friend of Arjuna, or His becoming the associate neighbor of the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, as the son of Nanda-Yaśodā, the friend of Sudāmā, Śrīdāmā and Madhumaṅgala, or the lover of the damsels of Vrajabhūmi, etc. That is part of His personal features. And by His impersonal feature He expands the rays of the brahma-jyotir, which is limitless and all-pervasive. Part of this all-pervasive brahma-jyotir, which is compared to the sun rays, is covered by the darkness of the mahat-tattva, and this insignificant part is known as the material world. In this material world there are innumerable universes like the one we can experience, and in each of them there are hundreds of thousands of planets like the one we are inhabiting. The mundaners are more or less captivated by the unlimited expansion of the rays of the Lord, but the devotees are concerned more with His personal form, from which everything is emanating (janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1)). As the sun rays are concentrated in the sun disc, the brahma-jyotir is concentrated in Goloka Vṛndāvana, the topmost spiritual planet in the spiritual sky. The immeasurable spiritual sky is full of spiritual planets, named Vaikuṇṭhas, far beyond the material sky. The mundaners have insufficient information of even the mundane sky, so what can they think of the spiritual sky? Therefore the mundaners are always far, far away from Him. Even if in the future they are able to manufacture some machine whose speed may be accelerated to the velocity of the wind or mind, the mundaners will still be unable to imagine reaching the planets in the spiritual sky. So the Lord and His residential abode will always remain a myth or a mysterious problem, but for the devotees the Lord will always be available as an associate.
In the spiritual sky His opulence is immeasurable. The Lord resides in all the spiritual planets, the innumerable Vaikuṇṭha planets, by expanding His plenary portions along with His liberated devotee associates, but the impersonalists who want to merge in the existence of the Lord are allowed to merge as one of the spiritual sparks of the brahma-jyotir. They have no qualifications for becoming associates of the Lord either in the Vaikuṇṭha planets or in the supreme planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana, described in the Bhagavad-gītā as mad-dhāma and here in this verse as the sva-dhāma of the Lord.
This mad-dhāma or sva-dhāma is described in the Bhagavad-gītā (15.6) as follows:
- na tad bhāsayate sūryo
- na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ
- yad gatvā na nivartante
- tad dhāma paramaṁ mama
The Lord's sva-dhāma does not require any sunlight or moonlight or electricity for illumination. That dhāma, or place, is supreme, and whoever goes there never comes back to this material world.
The Vaikuṇṭha planets and the Goloka Vṛndāvana planet are all self-illuminating, and the rays scattered by those sva-dhāma of the Lord constitute the existence of the brahma-jyotir. As further confirmed in the Vedas like the Muṇḍaka (2.2.10), Kaṭha (2.2.15) and Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣads (6.14):
- na tatra sūryo bhāti na candra-tārakaṁ
- nemā vidyuto bhānti kuto 'yam agniḥ
- tam eva bhāntam anu bhāti sarvaṁ
- tasya bhāsā sarvam idaṁ vibhāti
In the sva-dhāma of the Lord there is no need of sun, moon or stars for illumination. Nor is there need of electricity, so what to speak of ignited lamps? On the other hand, it is because those planets are self-illuminating that all effulgence has become possible, and whatever there is that is dazzling is due to the reflection of that sva-dhāma.
One who is dazzled by the effulgence of the impersonal brahma-jyotir cannot know the personal transcendence; therefore in the Īśopaniṣad (15) it is prayed that the Lord shift His dazzling effulgence so that the devotee can see the real reality. It is spoken thus:
- hiraṇmayena pātreṇa
- satyasyāpihitaṁ mukham
- tat tvaṁ pūṣann apāvṛṇu
- satya-dharmāya dṛṣṭaye
"O Lord, You are the maintainer of everything, both material and spiritual, and everything flourishes by Your mercy. Your devotional service, or bhakti-yoga, is the actual principle of religion, satya-dharma, and I am engaged in that service. So kindly protect me by showing Your real face. Please, therefore, remove the veil of Your brahma-jyotir rays so that I can see Your form of eternal bliss and knowledge." (break)
Hari-śauri: ...reminding them that the caukidāra wasn't ringing the bell until it became established.
Brahmānanda: It's been going on for years.
Prabhupāda: After my departure they stopped this? You may take. Where is Akṣayānanda? (break) (bell rings)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hari-śauri? Śrīla Prabhupāda, they just rang the bell now.
Prabhupāda: He is going...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the half-hour bell. Before was the four o'clock.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Oh, this is half hour?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Hari-śauri? (break) It's starting to get darker early. Sun is setting earlier now, I think, than it was when we were last here. (break) ...to see that things are going on.
Prabhupāda: The leaders are... Similarly, leaders of this temple, they will have to organize.
| Page Title: | Material universe (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 30 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=24, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 24 |