Prabhupāda: So the modern civilization, they are trying to increase the degree of material fever, and they have come to the point, 107 degree-atomic bomb. Now they are going to die. You see? The American atom bomb or the Russian atom bomb will kill the whole material scientists' advancement. You see? So this is the... So, and devotees, they want to decrease the fever. Decrease the fever. Therefore the highest, ideal life, according to Vedic civilization: brāhmaṇas, Vaiṣṇava. They decrease their demands of the body. Minimum demand. You see? There is amongst the brāhmaṇa, not now, in the Vedic system, the uñca-vṛtti. It is called uñca-vṛtti. Uñca-vṛtti means they will go the paddy field, and after the cultivator takes all the paddies, some paddies are thrown away. They will collect those paddies only. Just like birds, they collect. They collect those paddies, and that they will eat, not even beg, ask anybody for any morsel of food. So completely... And in the Bhāgavata, Śukadeva Gosvāmī recommends that "Oh, this open field is your bed, this is your pillow, this is your pot, and the water in river is sufficient water, the tree is full of fruits, and in the cave, there is sufficient apartment.
Material scientists (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"material scientist"
|"material scientists"
|"materialistic scientist"
|"materialistic scientists"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Haṁsadūta: But I have one more question Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: On the light.
Haṁsadūta: In our world here, there are material scientists and they understand things in a particular way. They understand, for instance...
Prabhupāda: Their way and our way is completely different.
Haṁsadūta: I know. But I mean, there must be... Suppose, on the heavenly planets, there must also be a class of men who understand things...
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: This is all nonsense. People are befooled by all this philosophy.
Bhūrijana: Albert Einstein, he said that "I cannot believe that the highest material principle is chance." He's a material scientist. He said, "I cannot believe..."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. Actually, if one is actually learned, scientific, he must admit. He must admit, unless he is a lunatic, rascal. He will say all these nonsense things, "Chance." Why chance? What is taking place within your practical experience by chance? If by prearrangement we would not come here, then who would care for it? Even on the street we could not lie down. Nobody allow. the police will arrest. "Who are these men?" How do you say chance? Everything is done by prearrangement. The chance is an explanation given by the rascals and fools. They are not sane men. There cannot be anything by chance. We got up on the train, and the train is running, and it is all chance?
Prabhupāda: They have not found out the ultimate cause. They take a process which is going in the middle way; therefore their science is imperfect. But our science is perfect. We have found out the ultimate cause.
- īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇah
- sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
- anādir ādir govindaḥ
- sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
- (Bs. 5.1)
The cause of all causes. Therefore our science is perfect. We have found out the cause of all causes. But the material scientists, they simply can look to the process, how it is working. Just like a child sees the machine, how it is working, but he cannot know who has produced that machine. Therefore we see the child scientist. (laughter) Not better scientist.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guru dāsa: Prabhupāda was the other day saying that we're the, we have the science of love of God. Many people say, the material scientists say perhaps or about 5,000 years ago such and such happened, but we say 485 years ago Lord Caitanya came. Five thousand years ago such and such happened. There are 8,400,000 species of life, not perhaps there are 8,400,000. So, this is very scientific, this relationship.
Prabhupāda: This is very difficult for the Māyāvādī philosophers to answer, that everyone is God but when God becomes ignorant? And what kind of God He is that He forgets and becomes ignorant? In māyā. So māyā becomes better than God? Is it not? Then what is the definition of God? So many things. But they cannot answer. Just like you said that when you become ignorant (indistinct) God, how it happens? (indistinct). God, how God can be ignorant? And how can God become forgetful? It is contradictory. Then what kind of God he is, that he becomes ignorant sometimes?
Mahāṁsa: So this laghimā siddhi is also being attained by the material scientists?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Mahāṁsa: This is also a siddhi, that they can invent a plane...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. To some extent. By material arrangement... The yogis can do still more. Without any material machine, they can float. They can walk on the water, becomes light. (break) ...man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). This is the process. (break) ...colleges, the students are being educated that there is no God. And they expect good behavior from them. And when they set fire in the bus, that is... "The students are so dangerous now." But you have made them dangerous. The educational system. They are protesting against the existence of God. (break) ...so-called swamis. And they are also accelerating, "yes, no more. There is no God. Why you are searching God anywhere? There are so many gods loitering in the street. They are God." That is the statement of Vivekananda. "Why you are finding out, trying to find out God elsewhere. These are Gods." (break) ...if required, one may come, very easily, one may take some time. But we should go on preaching.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Paramahaṁsa: In this connection you have quoted Lord Brahmā, saying that... Lord Brahmā says that the great material scientists, they may be able to calculate the atomic structure of the material world and the planetary system, but even if Kṛṣṇa is standing right in front of them, they can't calculate His potencies.
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda liked to say, he challenged Ramakrishna, "Can you show me God?" He said, "Yes," and he showed him God and then he became disciple.
Paramahaṁsa: They're saying that this Bal Yogeshwara, people ask him "Can you show what is God," and he says, "Oh, yes," then he shows them.
Prabhupāda: Where he is now, this Bal Yogeshwara?
Gaṇeśa: Just like the child, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who was trying to find the sound within the drum, the material scientists are trying to find out the cause and effect of the material world. Is that not intelligence?
Prabhupāda: Yes, but they have not reached the ultimate goal.
Paramahaṁsa: But they are trying.
Prabhupāda: They are trying. That is admitted. But, they are concluding that there is no operator. That is their foolishness, because they have failed to find out. They have to go further, further, and see, "Yes, there is operator." That is the final part of the... That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān mām (BG 7.19). So after many, many births of sincere inquiry, when he is actually intelligent, he will see, "Oh, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Here is Vasudeva. He is everything." That is stated. He'll enquire. Go on enquiring, life after life. And then he'll come to understand vāsudevaḥ-sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. You did not read this verse? They will come, after much trouble, much enquiry, they will come to the same conclusion, vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). But they'll waste time. That's all. When we say, "Here is operator," they will not take. But they'll waste time, and life after life laboring, one day they will come.
Gaṇeśa: So one day the material scientist after many, many births will come to understand Vasudeva or Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gaṇeśa: They will become devotees.
Prabhupāda: But that is their foolishness. We, people, Kṛṣṇa conscious people say, "Here is your ultimate goal of this science. Take it." That they will not take. That is foolishness. They will come to the same point. But when you offer him, he will not take. That is less intelligent. (break)
Paramahaṁsa: You were saying that inquisitiveness is the...
Prabhupāda: That credit we give them. Just like this child. But the childishness is this, that when they are given correct information, they do not take it. (indistinct) If we say to the material scientists that "You are searching after this, here it is, Kṛṣṇa, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8), I am the original source of everything." they will not accept. That is their foolishness.
Gaṇeśa: They are very inquisitive, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: That credit is already given, but you are inquisitive for a certain thing, if the thing is offered, if you do not accept then you become foolish. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), Vāsudeva, he'll come to that point, that Kṛṣṇa is everything, but when you inform him before that here is the thing, he will not take. That is the foolishness.
Gaṇeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the material scientists are so inquisitive, yet they are leading lives like cats and dogs, how can they come to...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are wrongly directed. You are inquiring me, "Sir I want to such and such place." If that place is this way, if I say you go this way. You go this way. Then you'll be baffled, and you'll be unhappy. Wrong direction.
Paramahaṁsa: But we are taking some direction from...
Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you take wrong direction you'll be unhappy. Your destination will not be (reached).
Gaṇeśa: So how can the scientists arrive at vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19)?
Sabhāpati: So who is the greater rascal, the material scientist or the...
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone. Everyone who... That is the statement. Mūḍha. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). This class of men, they do not recognize God. Who? Those who are sinful, rascals, lowest of the mankind. Such people do not recognize God. Mūḍhas. (indistinct) educated. No, that education means false education. Real education is taken away by māyā. Real education means to understand God. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). If one does not understand what is God, his education is useless. It has no meaning. What is that education? Will that education save him from death? Then what is the value of his education? Your real problem is birth, death, old age, and disease. Can this material education stop it? Is the scientist able to stop one's old age? And does anyone, man, any man, wants to become old? No, nobody wants. Everyone wants to keep himself youthful. But can the science stop this, that he will not become old? He must become old.
Prabhupāda: Our endeavor is just to become a dog of a Vaiṣṇava, not to become an animal like lion. We remain a dog, but of a Vaiṣṇava. And we refuse to become a big animal like lion. This is our philosophy. Another song is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's, janmaobi jadi icchā to hara, kīṭa-janma hau jaha das bhakta tuṅhara: "I do not know what is my next life. That depends on Your consideration. But if you think that I must take another birth or another many births, it doesn't matter. Only I request You that You make me an insignificant ant in the house of a devotee." Kīṭa-janma hau jaha das tuṅhara. This is Vaiṣṇava aspiration, that If become an ant under the protection of a Vaiṣṇava, that is also successful. And I don't want to become a Brahmā who is not a devotee." So this Vaiṣṇava philosophy is very accurate. Therefore this life of a Vaiṣṇava begins with surrender, not the challenge. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is Vaiṣṇava. Christ also said that "Kingdom of God is for the humble and meek." Is it not? He never said it is for the lion and elephant. The material disease means we have challenged Kṛṣṇa, God, "Oh, what is God? We can live independently." And that is material scientist. They are trying to prove, "There is no God. We can create everything in the laboratory." And that is their foolishness.
Jñāna: The materialistic scientists, they are saying that matter is energy. So we understand if it's energy there must be an energetic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how the energetic is producing, this is common. Gas is forming. Just like you perspire, there is water. So one ounce of water may come from your body. So water is coming from your body, so why not from the gigantic body of Kṛṣṇa, the oceans, millions of oceans, come out? This should be the understanding. We see practically that water is coming out from my body. So it may be one ounce or less than that because my body is very small, but Kṛṣṇa's body is unlimited, so why not unlimited supply of water? This should be the common sense. And this body, this body, what it is? It is earth. When the body will be dead it will be earth. So I am spirit soul, a small particle, so much earth is coming from me, why not Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spirit? This is the explanation. God is great, I am small. From me a small quantity of earth is coming, water is coming.
Prabhupāda: That is the position. So expert knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. He therefore begins: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Within this body, the living force, that is the soul. Because that soul is there, it is changing body, different. Try to understand that active principle. And where is that understanding? They simply putting different theses. They do not, neither do they know antithesis or synthesis. So our.... We know the thesis, antithesis and synthesis, that this soul, living entity, is within this body. Now the body is important so long the soul is there. Otherwise, body is a lump of matter. So the soul is suffering. He's seeking after enjoyment, but he's suffering. So therefore.... The most prominent suffering is death. That he cannot avoid. Or he's not.... The so-called materialistic scientists, they have not been able, neither they do know, who is the sufferer or enjoyer. They take this body. The same fiber platform. So actually they are rascals. What is the value of the thesis, antithesis?
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then, in the morning, it rises reddish. So why it does not look reddish always if it is fixed?
Harikeśa: Well, the material scientists say it's because of the atmospheric condition. It refracts the light in such a way that it becomes reddish. That's what they say. Because it's thicker atmosphere. You have to look through more atmos...
Prabhupāda: Then how it comes so high? After few hours it goes so high.
Harikeśa: Well, there is less atmosphere to look through. Why it goes up there?
Prabhupāda: So that means move?
Harikeśa: No, no. Because we're moving this way. The earth is rotating.
Devotee (4): He has necessity for God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Out of millions and millions people one has the necessity for Kṛṣṇa. (break) Material scientists, they are creating necessities, television, and they are thinking advanced. What is the use of television? There is no use. But this is advanced civilization.
Hari-śauri: In relative terms.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is necessity, what is the advancement? There is dull matter. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Apareyam. The dull matter is inferior energy. And the anya-prakṛti, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho, the living entities, they have got necessities. Dull matter, there are no necessities. The more one is dull, his necessities are less. And those who are advanced, his necessities begin.
Prabhupāda: Oh, due to the climate.
Kīrtanānanda: We don't know. It is a very hard seed.
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, perhaps the material scientists could help us make the seed sprout.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Devotee (4): I was thinking earlier how a farmer can put the seed in the ground, but he cannot actually make the seed grow if it is not the will of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The situation is not favorable. That is the proof that everything is a living entity. If you put the seed... The seed is not the tree, but when you put the seed on the ground, if the situation is favorable, the particular living entity who has to take the form of that tree, he comes, and then it grows. That is the proof. Just like sex. It is not the secretion of the man and the woman. It creates a situation so that the soul may come and live there, and then there is pregnancy. It is not the matter. This is the proof.
Prabhupāda: That may be, but you are responsible for that. Because you are driving me from this apartment by force. Actually, in a higher sense, that is accepted, that he was to be driven away. But because you are driving, you are responsible for that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now this experiment, another interpretation of these material scientists is that they claim that this experiment disproved the vital theory. But on other hand, actually, the opposite is true, that he proved that there is a vital theory, rather, that spirit must be there. That was actually proved by this experiment also. But the mentality of these scientists are so demoniac that they twist the truth around... (break) RNA is a big molecule and that is actually transferred from this DNA molecule. DNA molecule, they call it the master molecule from which everything comes, all the molecules.
Hari-śauri: Eight minutes to seven, Śrīla Prabhupāda. If those people in India who are aware of the actual science, though, if they had come out and spoken against material scientists...
Prabhupāda: I am speaking.
Vṛṣākapi: You're the only one though, Prabhupāda.
Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, one problem we face with students and scientists, when we present Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy, they say...
Prabhupāda: No, no. We don't condemn the scientists. We say that "Take credit as much as you can. But why do you defy the existence of God?" That is our protest.
Sadāpūta: They want to be God.
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact, everything is created by God. It is being done by one, that Supreme. We are simply studying how it is acting. Otherwise everything is being done by Him. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is a fact. How He is working so nicely, that is the subject matter of our study, or something is explained in the śāstra or something has been studied by these material scientists, but the things are being done by the supreme arrangement of manager. That is a fact.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The difficulty in this Christian aspect is that they claim that it was created about five thousand years ago. That is the reason why we want to bring up this...
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Becoming entangled in the machine. Because he has forgotten his spiritual identity. He thinks "With this machine I can help myself." That is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In a sense, it is also true that in the material world, especially material scientists, they make things more complicated.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The contamination of material desires. But when one develops spiritual desire, then he becomes more simple.
Prabhupāda: Karma-bandha. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, yajñārthāt karmaṇaḥ anyatra karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), to become entangled.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He plans to meet with Svarūpa Dāmodara in Boston when he returns in July to discuss the possible films to make. He says he decided with Svarūpa Dāmodara that it would be best to wait before making a film until they have published their thesis and had some feedback from the material scientists. It's a good point. "Because their theories are always changing, our scientists also have to change their approach. It is for this reason that a film does not seem so suitable for their purposes, because it cannot be so easily changed as with a slide presentation. Also Svarūpa Dāmodara's presentation is highly scientific, and I feel somewhat dry for the film medium, which is more an artistic medium."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yaśodānandana: Each mountain is made of a different kind of stone. Some are made of gold; some are made of coral; some of them, stones, are lapis lazuli, that blue stone that Kṛṣṇa wears. Each mountain has different variety.
Prabhupāda: They will be puzzled. These material scientists will be puzzled. (laughter)
Bhakti-Prema: But according to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, in the beginning of creation we have relation with all this, in India. Even five thousand years ago Parīkṣit Mahārāja went and he conquered this area. I have translated this. This Tattvata-varṣa was conquered by... And this Ramya-varṣa was also conquered. And Vardhanya also... And then this is Bhārata-varṣa, this whole world.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where?
| Page Title: | Material scientists (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 08 of May, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=25, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 25 |