Prabhupāda: That means his qualification described and offered respect. And then next qualification, what is that? Yaḥ svānubhāvam akhila-śruti-sāram ekam ākhyātma-dīpam atititīrṣataṁ tamo 'ndham (SB 1.2.3). And his other qualification is that he presented the gist, essence, substance, of Vedic knowledge for the persons who are eager to get out of the darkness of this material existence. Atititīrṣataṁ tamo 'ndham saṁsariṇaṁ karuṇayāha (SB 1.2.3). And purāṇa guhyam. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the mahā-purāṇa, I mean to say, "the greatest history." Purāṇa means history, old history. Guhyam, very confidential. He explained this great, confidential history for the people who are suffering the repeated birth and death. For their purpose, he is so kind that he explained. Saṁsariṇaṁ karuṇayā. Karuṇayā means out of compassionate, compassion for the persons who are suffering continually birth and death. Taṁ vyāsa-sūnam upayāmi guruṁ munīnām. So "I offer my respect to that son of Vyasa who is spiritual master of many other saintly persons."
Material existence (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: It is expected that he should not be insane. By treatment he is brought again to his original consciousness. Similarly, māyā means insanity, forgetfulness of God. And by Kṛṣṇa consciousness treatment he comes to the original consciousness. He becomes a cured man. Actually māyā means which has no existence. Māyā has no existence. But sometimes it is there. Just like the sky's cover. This covering is not reality. The reality is this sky, clear sky, but somehow it is now covered. You cannot see the clear sky. So there is temporary, temporary illusion. Now, if I see the cloud only and if I say, "Oh, there is no sun. There is no illumination," or "There is no clear sky," that is insanity. Because I cannot see-under certain circumstances, I deny it—that is my insanity. Therefore you have to approach to a man who knows that there is sunlight, there is sun, there is clear sky... If you go there... You require all this education, knowledge. By knowledge one transcends māyā, or material existence. What is the difference between ordinary man and Kṛṣṇa conscious man? They are also living in this world, in this apartment. Everything is being utilized like others. We are also eating, sleeping also. But what is the difference? Our difference—that we accept that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa; others do not. That's all. That is māyā. Everything actually belongs to Kṛṣṇa. He does not know. He thinks, "It belongs to me," or "This, my nation, this, my country, this, that," so many things. He is manufacturing. And we know the simple truth, that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So let everything be offered to Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Yes.
To think of independence is māyā. Best thing is that "I am dependent, and let me remain dependent in properly. Then I am protected." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So your question is answered? Material consciousness means thinking falsely independent. That is material consciousness. Falsely. He is not independent, but he is thinking falsely, "I am independent." This is māyā. Just like in dream he is falsely thinking there is a tiger. There is no tiger, but he is actuated by this false impression, "Oh, tiger is eating me. It has attacked me. Save me." So this material existence means because he is insane, he is thinking there are so many problems, "The tiger is there. He is attacking me. This, that, so many enemies, friends...," creating so many things. But they are all false. But he is attacked by that false hallucination. That's all. This is māyā. Everyone is thinking, "Oh, there are so many problems I have to solve. I have to make this, that, this, so many." But he has no problem. He has no problem. His only problem is how to accept Kṛṣṇa. That's all. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind. He says, "Yes, you accept Me. Simply chant Kṛṣṇa. I am yours. That's all." But my, I am so misfortunate that I cannot chant even. All problems solved simply by chanting Kṛṣṇa. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān. Caitanya Mahāprabhu teaches that "O Kṛṣṇa, You are so kind that You have come to Me in the sound vibration, word, 'Kṛṣṇa.' I can very easily chant, and You remain with Me. But I am so misfortunate that I have no attraction even for this." You say people, "You chant Kṛṣṇa; you get everything." They will not believe it.
Prabhupāda: Yes, all, all circumstances, but it is the question of my appreciation, or my realization. That will depend on my purity. Otherwise this Kṛṣṇa sound and Kṛṣṇa, non-different. Therefore if we vibrate sound Kṛṣṇa, then I am immediately in contact with Kṛṣṇa, and if Kṛṣṇa is whole spirit, then immediately I become spiritualized. Just like if you touch electricity, immediately you're electrified. And the more you become electrified, more you become Kṛṣṇized. Kṛṣṇized. So when you are fully Kṛṣṇized, then you are in the Kṛṣṇa platform. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9), then fully Kṛṣṇized, no more comes back to this material existence. He remains with Kṛṣṇa. The impersonalists shall say merging. That is less intelligence. Merging does not mean losing individuality. Just like a green bird enters a green tree; it appears merging, but the bird has not lost his individuality. There is individuality. Similarly Kṛṣṇa says in the Fourth Chapter, no, Second Chapter that I, you, adyam(?), I and all these people who have assembled; it is not that they did not exist previously neither it is that they'll not exist. That means I, you, and all these persons, they were individual in the past.
Prabhupāda: No. Why not senses? This is Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa. But at the same time... This is the philosophy of Lord Caitanya. Acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. That is very easy... Suppose this is gold. But this gold is not the gold mine. There is a difference. It is gold. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa, but still is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Viṣṇu Purāṇa. Parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. Eka-sthānī sthitasyajñer jyotsnā vistāriṇī yathā, parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktiḥ sarvedam akhilaṁ jagat. The same example, that the sun. The sun is, sun-god is situated one place, but it is fiery. Blazing fire. Its heat and light is expanded. You see practically, the heat and light. So whatever this material existence is the sunlight, sunshine. Everything existing on sunshine. It is scientific. Your electricity, your this, that, whatever you take it is all sunshine. All these planets are moving, rotating on the sunshine. Heat. If heat is taken away immediately whole thing spoiled. Therefore everything is resting on the energy of the sunshine, but if you say that "Then let me find out the sun-god in the sunshine," that you will have to go there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Certainly. This creation is only a part of manifestation of His energy. Insignificant. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā.
- atha vā bahunaitena
- kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna
- viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam
- ekāṁśena sthito jagat
- (BG 10.42)
"The whole material existence is simply a partial manifestation of My energy." Ekāṁśena. Viṣṭabhyāham. Aham. "I have entered into this whole material creation and that is My partial manifestation of energy." Just like what is your, this body? The body is the, a manifestation of your energy. The seed, living entity, is put into the mother's womb and he expands. This body is expanding. But because you are limited, so much. That's all. Three feet or six feet. That's all. No more. You cannot expand more than that. This is crude example. But He's unlimited. He's expanding. Bṛhatvad bṛṁhaṇatvad iti brahma. Brahman means nothing is greater than Him and nothing can expand like Him. Bṛhatvad bṛṁhaṇatvad iti brahma. So everything is there scientific. Simply we have to administer. We have got authoritative scripture, description, answers, everything is there. It is not blind following. It is not religious fanaticism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is very natural. Just like... (knock on door) Come on. Because jīva, although parā śaktī, he has got independence. So when he wants to imitate Kṛṣṇa... In the spiritual world Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, and all others, they are enjoyed. Predominator and the predominating. The Lord is the predominating, so there is no disagreement. There they know, "The Lord is predominator. We have to serve." When this service attitude is impaired, that "Why serve Kṛṣṇa? Why not ourself?" that is māyā. Then he falls down in the material energy. There is no scope... Just like in the government system, there is no scope of freedom. You have to act according to government state laws. So long you are agreement, then you are free. If you disagree, then you are placed within the prison house. Similarly, jīva, independent, not fully independent, but they have got. Because part and part of God, therefore that independence quality is there. So when that independence quality is misused, then his place is in the material world. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāṅchā kare. When we forget Kṛṣṇa and try to lord it over something... And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. When we try to imitate His lordship, then our place is in the material world. We are given freedom, "All right, you lord it over here." So here every living entity is trying to lord it over, competition. I am trying individualwise, nationwise. Everyone is trying to lord it over. That is material existence.
Prabhupāda: Oh, very glad to see you. Be happy and make all others happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. That is Vedic idea. Everyone be happy. That is the benediction. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says also the same thing, that let this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement be preached in every village, in every town of the world. People will be happy. That is His foretelling. So any missions, any high ideals, should be preached just to make everyone happy. Because in the material existence, there is no happiness. That is a fact. There cannot be any happiness. This place is not meant for happiness because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the Lord Himself says this is a place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries, this material world. And aśāśvatam, and temporary. Everything is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right. Whatever miserable is there, I'll accept this," that is also, has no value. Even if you accept, nature will not allow you to accept it and remain there. Aśāśvatam. You have to leave. So Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ: (BG 8.15) "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to return back to this miserable condition of life which is not only miserable but temporary."
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotee, you can become devotee, as they have become. It is not difficult. Simply you have to engage yourself in the transcendental loving service of the Lord. That's all.
Bob: I wish to gain more knowledge of God and be able to feel God's presence more. The reason for this is because I feel life has little meaning without this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you miss this human form of life, then it is a great loss. This is a chance given to the living entity to get out of the entanglement of material existence.
Bob: As I feel now...
Prabhupāda: (Speaks to someone in Bengali) (break)
Bob: ...thankful that I've been able to...
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can learn more and more.
Bob: Now I still have my connections in home. Marriage is... I'm engaged and all this...
Prabhupāda: No, no. There are so many marriages. He is married. Marriage is no barrier. I told you, there are four different orders of social life: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. So after brahmacārī, one can marry. But that is not obligatory. He may remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī for whole life. But a brahmacārī can marry. So after marriage there is vānaprastha life. Means little aloof from family. Live—husband and wife—separately. That time there is no sex life. And then, when he's fully renounced, detached from the family life, he takes sannyāsa.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, Kṛṣṇa being the Supreme Personality of Godhead, as soon as we think of Kṛṣṇa (it) means all energies of Kṛṣṇa. That is complete by saying "Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Rādhā represents all the energy of Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. So when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, the living entities are also included. Because the living entities are energies, different energies of Kṛṣṇa, superior energy. So when this energy is not serving the energetic, that means material existence. The whole world is not serving Kṛṣṇa. They are serving Kṛṣṇa in a different way. they are serving Kṛṣṇa indirectly. Just like disobedient citizens, they serve the government indirectly. They have come to the prison house on account of their disobedience of the laws of the state. So in the prison house they're forced to obey the laws of the state. Similarly, all the living entities here, they're godless. Either by ignorance or by his will, he doesn't like to accept the supremacy of God. Demonic. So we are trying to bring them in their original condition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. (break)
Prabhupāda: So naturally we cannot violate the destiny, but if we do it, then we suffer(?). But our destiny can be changed by Kṛṣṇa when we are Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we do not do, but Kṛṣṇa will do. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you protection." So that change takes place for my protection by Kṛṣṇa. There are two stages: nondevotee and devotee. The nondevotee is under the control of material nature, and devotee is under the direct control of Kṛṣṇa. Just like a big man. In the office there are many employees, they are controlled by different departmental superintendent. But the small man at home is controlling his children directly. The controller, he is controller both in the office and factory and home, but at home he is controller directly; outside home he is controller indirectly. But he is controller always. Similarly, God is controller always. When one becomes devotee, he is controlled directly by God. When he is nondevotee, he is controlled by His agent, māyā. But he has to be controlled. Just like every citizen of America is controlled by the government. When he's all right, his civil department controls him. When he's not all right, then the criminal department controls him. But he cannot say that "I am not controlled." That is not possible. If somebody says, "I am not controlled," he is not sane. He is crazy. Everyone is controlled. So either you be controlled directly by God or you be controlled by his agency. Being controlled by māyā, you spoil your life. That means you remain in the material existence, one after another.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore Bhāgavata says: bhave 'smin kliśyamānānām avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ. Avidyā. Avidyā means ass, no intelligence. He does not know what is life, what is the course of life, how things are going on. He does not know. The more he is increasing his unnecessary desires, he's making himself entangled. That he does not know. He has to take freedom from the repetition of birth and death, but he's becoming more and more entangled. Avidyā kāma-karmabhiḥ. This is Bhāgavata. In one line, the whole material existence explained. This is literature. In one line, there is thousands years research work. In one line. Bhave 'smin. Now this bhave 'smin, you make research. Asmin, in this world, taking birth. So you have to learn so many things on these two words. How the living entities are taking birth in this world. Wherefrom he's coming, where he's going. What is his business. So many things in these two words. Bhave 'smin. Kliśyamānānām. Struggle for existence. Why? Avidyā. Ignorance. What is that avidyā? Kāma-karmabhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: And so long he does not desire, he'll have to continue this material existence. So that depends on him.
Father Tanner: And could that go on and on forever, his not desiring?
Prabhupāda: Well, how can I say? You have got independence of desire and not to desire. That depends on you. If you never desire, then you continue, perpetually, material life. But there is chance.
Father Tanner: Now, taking that person, when material things cease, what happens to him?
Prabhupāda: Material things, material and spiritual, the living entities, they are spiritual, and the material elements, earth, water, fire, they are also material energy. There are two kinds of energies. Why two kinds? Three kinds of energies. Just like fire has got two kinds of energies, heat and light, similarly, God has got multi-energies. All those multi-energies have been divided into three. One is called internal, another is called external, and the third is called marginal. So this material world is manifestation of the external and marginal energy. So when the material world ceases to exist or it is dissolved, annihilated, so energy goes back to God. It goes back. Again, when there is creation, the same energy creates. The marginal energy, by the marginal energy and external energy. This is going on. Just like day and night, it is going on. At daytime people are busy. This is creation. At night everyone is sleeping. Similarly, when there is creation, these activities are going on. When there is no creation, it is night, everyone is sleeping.
Father Tanner: Is there a spirit opposed to the divine spirit?
Prabhupāda: Spirit opp...?
Prabhupāda: I am coming, yes. (break) ...dehaṁ punar janma naiti. Such person, those who are fully absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, such person, after giving up this body, does not accept any more material body. He goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." So you cannot go to Kṛṣṇa unless you have your spiritual body. Because the spiritual world and Kṛṣṇa, they are all spiritual. So you cannot enter into fire unless you are fire. So you have to revive your spiritual body, spiritual consciousness. Then, after giving up this body, you enter the spiritual world. So Lord Buddha did not speak anything about the spiritual world, but his philosophy said that "Dismantle this material existence." Nirvāṇa. Nobody has preached that "You become happy here," either Lord Buddha or Lord Christ or Kṛṣṇa or anybody, Śaṅkara. Nobody. But modern materialistic people, they are thinking that "We can become happy by adjustment of our material condition." That is not possible.
Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Buddhist Monk (1): They want to have the cake and eat it. They want to have two paradises, one here and one there also.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, people do not know the goal. That is the defect of modern civilization. Not modern, that is the defect of material existence.
Malcolm: But a number of people over a certain size make a goal by the number of people.
Prabhupāda: Hm? What is that?
Pradyumna: When a number of people think in a certain way?
Malcolm: No. The number of people make the goal not of them, but of the number.
Paramahaṁsa: Mass. Mass opinion usually forms society.
Malcolm: Not... No, not mass opinion. Not the, not the involvement of the people, but the number of the people.
Prabhupāda: The millions and trillions number...
Śyāmasundara: By unanimous opinion, by unanimous pursuit of some goal, that becomes the common goal.
Paramahaṁsa: Fashion. Fashion?
Prabhupāda: No, therefore I say...
Prabhupāda: Nirvāṇa, this word is Sanskrit word. Nirvāṇa means finish. (break)
Yogeśvara: For them the word nirvāṇa means an end but an end to this material existence and an entrance into the silence of the Absolute, onto a level that is real, whereas this one is false. This one is rejected.
Prabhupāda: Why silence?
Yogeśvara: He says the term "entering into silence" is a mystic term that means...
Prabhupāda: He cannot explain. (break)
Yogeśvara: ...it is undescribable because it's something that's arrived at inside through meditation. You can't really describe it in words?
Prabhupāda: Why? You are describing so many thing in words and the ultimate goal you cannot describe.
Yogeśvara: He says that many great masters like you from the East tend to smile at their explanations, but he...
Guru-gaurāṅga: They tend to smile when this question is asked, "Who am I?" So what can I say compared to these masters?
Prabhupāda: That means his knowledge is not perfect.
Prabhupāda: That is ultimate goal. So long we do not go back to home, back to Godhead, we have to, in our material existence, we have to change from one body to another. That is going on. And there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. The cats and dogs, they are also living entities, but they have got a different type of body. Every one of us, different type body. Even they are children, their body is different from your body. Even the (indistinct). Although their body is obtained, there are some similarities. But if you analyze very scrutinizingly there will be some difference from your body, from your daughter's body, from your boy's body. So every body, every living entity is getting a certain type of body according to his desire. According to his desire. So that desire means material enjoyment. Just like you have got certain desire to become champion in racing. Another body has got desire to become something else. Another body has got desire for something else. So we have got this freedom by the grace of God or Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That we are preaching. That is spiritual life. That you act in such a way that you haven't got to change any more apartment. Suppose, take for example, we were living in rented house. Now George has given us this house. Now we haven't got to change. It is a crude example. We can live until our death. Similarly, so long you are in material existence, you have to change this body, different types of body. But if you become fit for spiritual existence, you get rid or get out of this entanglement of changing bodies. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are teaching our people that "you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Live like that." (someone comes in) Come on. "Then you get permanent life."
Guest (1): And now, you did...
Prabhupāda: You can find out that verse, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya, yes (BG 4.9). I'll read one verse. You'll understand. Janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9), Fourth Chapter.
Pradyumna: "...śakti, the power to throw the living entity in the ocean of material existence, and āvaraṇātmikā-śakti, the power to cover the knowledge of the living entity. The function of the āvaraṇātmikā-śakti is explained the Bhagavad-gītā by the word: māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. Why the daivī-māyā, or illusory energy of Kṛṣṇa takes away the knowledge of the Māyāvādī philosophers is also explained in Bhagavad-gītā by the use of the words āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ, which refer to a person who does not agree to the existence of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, who are not in agreement with the existence of the Lord, can be classed in two groups, exemplified by the impersonalists Śaṅkarites of Vārāṇasī and the Buddhists of Saranātha. Both of them are Māyāvādīs, and Kṛṣṇa takes away their knowledge due to their atheistic philosophies. Neither of them agree to accept the existence of a personal God. The Buddhist philosophers clearly deny, clearly deny both the soul and God, and although the Śaṅkarites do not openly deny God, they say that the Absolute is nirākāra, or formless. Thus both of them are aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), or imperfect and unclean in their knowledge and intelligence."
Prabhupāda: What do you think?
Prabhupāda: Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura.
- narottama-dāsa koy, nā ṭheliho rāṅgā pāy,
- tomā bine ke āche āmāra
Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's singing, hari hari bifale janama goṅāinu: "My dear Lord, I have simply wasted my time. Bifale, without any profit. Because I got this human form of life, but I missed the opportunity for worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa." Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā." And by doing this, I have taken poison knowingly." Jāniyā śuniyā biṣa khāinu. Then golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana." This nāma-saṅkīrtana is not any material thing. It is the ecstatic love of Kṛṣṇa in the Goloka Vṛndāvana."
- golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana,
- rati nā janmilo kene tāy
"But I have no attachment for this hari-kīrtana." Saṁsāra-biṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale: "My heart is always burning in material existence." Juḍāite nā koinu upāy: "But I did not make any means by which I can get out of it." Brajendra-nandana jei, śacī-suta hoilo sei: "Formerly the same Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, who was, who appeared as the son of Nanda Mahārāja, He has again appeared as the son of Śacīdevī."
Prabhupāda: Well, Kṛṣṇa is God, the Supreme Personality of God.
Reporter (1): And what will it profit us if we get to know about Him?
Prabhupāda: The profit means you'll be saved from the material existence. Material existence means repetition of birth, death, old age, and disease.
Reporter (1): How does He speak?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Reporter (1): How does He speak to you or to us?
Prabhupāda: He was present five thousand years ago. He came on this planet and gave instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. So that is recorded.
Reporter (1): Why have you written Bhagavad-gītā as it really is? Why?
Prabhupāda: As it is, because there are many foolish rascals, they interpret unnecessarily. Just like Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is a place in India, still existing. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The meaning is clear, that "Kurukṣetra is a religious place and there, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kurus, they assembled together for fighting." But many so-called leaders, political leaders, scholars, they have interpreted, "Kurukṣetra means the body."
Prabhupāda: Because we are defective. This material existence means defective existence. This defection not there.
Dr. Wolfe: All the microscopes, and electric things, all these things, they are also defective.
Prabhupāda: Because it is made by the imperfect senses. So it must be defective. If you construct something with your defective knowledge, then it must be defective.
Karandhara: Even if they make a perfect microscope they still have to look at it through their defective eyes. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it. This is going on. Therefore whatever they are saying, they are all defective. Yes. That is our conclusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it is just like playing with fire.
Prabhupāda: Mūḍha mūḍha mūḍha mūḍha. Defective means mūḍha.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they seem to be quite satisfied.
Prabhupāda: That, ass is also satisfied. By unnecessarily carrying the load of the washerman, he is satisfied. Everyone is satisfied. Even the worms of the stool, he is satisfied. (laughs) That is nature's law. He is satisfied. So this satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: Ah? Causeless mercy. His mercy is already there, but we are denying the mercy. That is the defect of material existence.
Yaśomatīnandana: Spiritual master is the mercy of God?
Prabhupāda: Yes. God is distributing His mercy from within and from without. Without mercy is the spiritual master. Without means externally, just in front of you.
Devotee: Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā...
Prabhupāda: Ahhh!
Devotee: ...bhakta-gaṇe.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Impersonalist boys... (break) ...who are... (break) Eh?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: What is life cannot be proved by experiments. So it is not necessary to talk about life now.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Grapes are sour. (devotees laugh) The jackal's philosophy. The jackal came in the orchard of grapes and tried to take some grapes. He jumped many times, and when he failed, "Oh, there is no necessity, it is sour." It is jackal's philosophy. Sly fox.
Prabhupāda: Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal. Here in the material world everyone has come to get the best profit, without considering profit for others. Others may go to hell. "Others, let them go to the slaughterhouse. I must satisfy my tongue." That is material world. "No, why you are slaughtering other living entities?" "I don't care. I want to eat. That's all." So you have to pay for that. You cannot put others into difficulty because God is equally merciful to everyone. But you don't care for God. Therefore you do whimsically whatever you like. So you are putting yourself in difficulty. This is the position. (break) ...mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore without God consciousness, nobody is qualified. Nobody is qualified. Everyone is damned, condemned. (break) ...asato dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation he will simply prolong his material existence, that's all. And that is troublesome. Material existence means just this. The dog is material existence. It is a standard of suffering. But he does not know. Under illusion he is thinking that "I am very happy." So everyone is thinking that "I am very happy," but he's in condemned condition. The pig. He is eating stool, living in a filthy place, but he is getting fat because he is thinking he is very happy. This is called illusion.
Prabhupāda: When? Guru or... First of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru. You are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody, that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition. So guru means to rescue from this forest fire. So therefore it is said, ghanāghanatvam. A forest fire can be reduced or can be extinguished... Fire, there must be water. But wherefrom the water will come? Your fire brigade, bucket full of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud.
Prabhupāda: Your fire brigade, bucket full of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud. So therefore guru is the cloud. He has taken the mercy from the ocean, or from God, and he pours the mercy. Immediately the fire is extinguished, and you are saved. This is the saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya... **. One who has received mercy from the Supreme, he can save. Nobody can save. Your so-called fire brigade bucket or bucket full of water will not save. That is not possible. So as these rascals are simply trying to extinguish the blazing fire of material existence by so-called bucketful of water, it will not save. It will be waste of time. If the cloud comes, then it will be saved. So guru is the cloud. That is... Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanā... **. Ghanāghanatvam means cloud, dense cloud. As soon as there is dense cloud and pours water, finished, all blazing fire finished. That is guru. And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, soṁsāra-biṣānale dibāniśi hiyā jvale: "My heart is burning by the fire of this material existence." Juḍāite nā kainu upāya: "I did not make any arrangement for getting out of this fire." Golokero prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana: "Now this hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is coming from Goloka, from the spiritual world. I did not takes care of it." He is lamenting. So this is the fire extinguish instrument. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this age, and the fire will be extinguished. (break) ...prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya. (break)
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... Therefore Vedas says, uttiṣṭhata. "Get up, get up, get up!" Jāgṛta. "Become awakened." Prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. "Now you have got the opportunity. Utilize it." This is Vedic injunction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgṛta prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. This is Vedic in... Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are Vedic injunctions. So we are preaching the same thing, that "Reality is here, Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain in this darkness. Come to this consciousness." That is our preaching. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. (break) ...experienced the sunshine, bright day, and this gloomy day. So when you are in darkness, we must have to admit, "There is light." Because darkness means absence of light. So as we are in the darkness of this material existence, there must be something life of light. That is spiritual world. That is reality. (break) ...ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I don't belong to this darkness, darkness atmosphere. I belong to the light atmosphere." That is self-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. Just like I have given already. Why nine billion cells are there? Because you can work with it. I have given an electric running on typewriter because I know how to work it. Otherwise, this electric machine and the old electric machine, they are made of the same iron, but if I know how to work it, then I can utilize this machinery. But for a layman, it will be all the same. So that is karma. According to karma, we get a body. The body's machinery is also well-equipped, as I can work. This is nature's gift. Not that "This brain is first-class, that brain is first-class, er last class." All brain, last class. It is matter. The man who is working, the soul who is working, he is first-class, second-class, third-class. It is said clearly, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "Īśvara, Kṛṣṇa, is situated in everyone's heart." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā: (BG 18.61) "He is offered a yantra, a machine, made by material energy." But that is under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has asked the material energy "Give a good machine; he can work. Good or bad, as He wants, as He wants. That's all. Give him a..." yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. It is all bad. Either this electric machine or that manual machine. They are all matter. So anything material, that is bad. But he wants it; "All right, give it." That is going on. He wants this facility. Now before these motorcars, people were walking on foot. All business was being done. But we wanted a machine like that, so Kṛṣṇa has given us brain to manufacture. That's all. But what you will benefit by this? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up all this nonsense proposal." But they will not do that. They will create another nonsense desire. That desire should be stopped. That is desireless. Because they will go on simply proposing some nonsense desire... That is their material existence.
Prabhupāda: That's all. Kṛṣṇa is best. That's all. And whatever is done for Kṛṣṇa, that is best. That's all. We have got a standard; therefore we are satisfied. "Even in distressed condition, because Kṛṣṇa has given me distress, so-called distress, it is not distress. So this is all right." Because here, distress or happiness, they are simply mental concoction. Dvaite bhadra... I am in the material existence—that is my distress. That distress has to be removed, not this temporary distress or happiness. (japa)
Satsvarūpa: But when we try to help people in that way, they don't care for our help.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Satsvarūpa: We try to give people that. They don't want that; they want temporary help.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. They are mad. Still, we have to do that. Madmen does not, he doesn't think that "I require anyone's help." But still, the father, mother, guardian, government, gives him help. We are not dependent on their decision; we are dependent on Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, para-duḥkha-duḥkhī: Vaiṣṇava is unhappy seeing others unhappy. Otherwise, they have no unhappiness. They are unhappy seeing that "This rascal is unnecessarily suffering." That is unhappiness of Vaiṣṇava. Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa... Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I have no, any problem, but I'm simply thinking of these rascals, that for some temporary happiness they make so gorgeous arrangement, and forgotten their real business."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vit. Vit means stool. Śva-viḍ-varāha-uṣṭra. Uṣṭra means camel, and khara means ass. So these gṛhamedhīs they have been described as the śva, viḍ-varāha, uṣṭra, khara. Bhāgavata is very strong (laughs) in criticizing. Therefore in the beginning it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra: (SB 1.1.2) "All types of cheating religion is rejected." Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo atra. Kaitava means cheating. Śrīdhara Swāmī, he has... Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ: "This Bhāgavata is meant for paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ, those who are above this material existence, paramahaṁsas." Bhāgavata is not meant for ordinary men.
Dr. Patel: Who can make a distinction between milk and water.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, no, means he accepts only the milk, not the water. Similarly, this whole world is mixture of spirit and matter, so he rejects matter; he takes only spirit. That is paramahaṁsa. Go on.
Girirāja: "Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura points out that according to Bhagavad-gītā, the Brahmā day and the Brahmā night are periods of solar years expanding 4,300,000 multiplied by one thousand..." (break)
Prabhupāda: Four, I think. This one?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, 747. Jumbo.
Prabhupāda: It is 447, yes. (break)
Yogeśvara: "It is explained in the Second Chapter that the living entity is transmigrating from one body to another just as one changes dress. This change of dress is due to his attachment to material existence. As long as he is captivated by this false manifestation, he has to continue transmigrating from one body to another. Due to his desire to lord over the material nature, he is put into such undesirable circumstances. Under the influence of material desire, the entity is born sometimes as a demigod, sometimes as a man, sometimes as a beast, as a bird, as a worm, as an aquatic, as a saintly man, as a bug. This is going on. And in all cases the living entity thinks himself to be the master of his circumstances, yet he is under the influence of material nature."
Prabhupāda: So this is our... because we are developing a different consciousness... Different... Consciousness is one, but it is being colored under different circumstances. And therefore we have to accept a similar type of body. So if our consciousness is cleansed, then we do not undergo the circumstantial changes by different species of life. That is required. In the human form of life we can do that, not to associate with the modes of material nature, but associate with God. That we can do. And if we associate with God, then we become liberated from the clutches of māyā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. And our real business is how to get out of the clutches of māyā.
Prabhupāda: I shall become demigod. Or I am dog, I shall become human being." The karmīs, they are thinking this is advancement. This is not advancement. Real advancement: no more accepting any material body. That is the real advancement. Just finish. This sense can come in human form of life, that "I have suffered so much. I have come through so many species of life. Now I have got sense." So the reply is there that mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti: (BG 8.15) "Anyone who comes to Me, he does not come again to this miserable condition of material existence." We should take advantage of this. That is human civilization. What is this human civilization? Jumping like dog, in a motorcar, that's all. This is not civilization. This is dog civilization, that's all. And actually what benefit they have derived? They are not satisfied. One man has got this car, and next year another car, another car. And the car manufacturer also giving fashion. "This is 1974 edition, this is 1975 edition." And they are earning money with hard labor. "All right, get a motorcar." And again, next year change. What is this civilization? No satisfaction. They do not know where is the point of satisfaction. It is dog civilization.
Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya." Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This you will get even if you become cat and dog. But in the cat and dogs, I will not get this opportunity, how to get out of this material existence. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. These are the instructions of Prahlāda.
Prabhupāda: "Then he gets śāntiṁ nirvāṇa."
Nitāi: Mat-saṁsthām adhigacchati.
Prabhupāda: Mat-saṁsthām. "Then he is promoted to the Brahman effulgence." That means he surpasses the material existence. Then?
Nitāi: Nāty aśnatas tu yogo 'sti.
Prabhupāda: Ah, nāty aśnataḥ. It is not that you should not eat, abstain, no. Eat very little. So?
Nitāi: Na caikāntam anaśnataḥ.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Not to eat more, not to eat less. Whatever will sustain you, you must eat.
Nitāi: Na cāti-svapna-śīlasya.
Prabhupāda: "Neither sleep very deeply nor sleep less." Then?
Nitāi: Jāgrato naiva cārjuna. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya.
Prabhupāda: Yuktāhāra-vihārasya.
Prabhupāda: So it doesn't require that in every Veda there should be, because the Upaniṣads, they are impersonal study, negation of the material existence. That is negation. There is no positivity. So when you come to the positivity, then you can understand Kṛṣṇa.
- goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya
- devī-maheśa-hari-dhāmasu teṣu teṣu
- te te prabhāva-nicayā vihitāś ca yena
- govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
- (Bs. 5.43)
So you cannot understand the goloka-nāmni nija-dhāmni tale ca tasya, the Goloka-nāmni planet, where it is. We do not know where is or how many planets are in this material world. (break) ...seeing very, very distant, ninety-three million miles away. But we have got little heat and light, we are satisfied. You see. But if you have got the capacity to run on..., just like they are trying to go to the moon planet, go to the sun planet... Actually it is a fact, this planet is in your front. Where can you go? Why? Why is it impossible to go? It is material. So you cannot go even the material planets, what to speak of the spiritual planets.
Prabhupāda: Savior means who saves you from this material existence. He is called savior. Because the living entity, being entangled in this material existence, he is suffering, so savior means one who saves from this material entanglement and gets him back to God, back to Godhead.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Yogeśvara: When they think of the savior, they're talking about the guru, the spiritual master. He's asking, is Kṛṣṇa our guru? Kṛṣṇa, we consider Kṛṣṇa...
Prabhupāda: Guru means the representative of God. Just like Christ is son of God, guru is also son of God. So there is no much difference because they will say the same thing, that "You are suffering in this material world on account of material entanglement. So you give up this business. Come back to home, back to Godhead." So this is the real message. This message is given by God, by His son, by His servant. The message is the same. If one does not give this message he is neither guru, nor son, nothing of the sort.
Swiss Man (1): (French)
Prabhupāda: Material body means again death. As soon as you accept this material body, either human body or cat's body or dog's body or tree's body, it has end. Therefore it is said, tyaktvā deham, if one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then, giving up this body, no more accepting any material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). "He comes to Me." And that is the solution of all anxieties. So if you want to become anxietyless, therefore we would advise you to become God conscious, always think of God, Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta (SB 7.5.5). This is the process, that so long we'll be on the platform of material existence, we cannot avoid anxiety. That is not possible. Therefore it is the duty of everyone to give up this material world and take shelter of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That will give us relief from all anxieties. (pause)
Guru-gaurāṅga: Is it clear? (break)
Prabhupāda: This is description.
Professor Durckheim: May I put a question to the question of time, the meaning of time? I think there are two ways to look at time and to look at eternity.
Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. Time is eternal, but we calculate time, past and present and future, according to my temporary material existence. Just like a small ant. The ant's past and present is different from my past and present. I am a human being. I live for hundred years. So my past and present is different from the ant who lives for, say, a few hours.
Professor Durckheim: Is different from?
Prabhupāda: From the ant, a small living entity. And similarly, Brahmā, his past, present, is different because he has done millions and millions of years as one day. So the time is eternal, but according to our condition, occupying the time and space, we calculate past and present and future. Otherwise time itself is eternal.
Professor Durckheim: Well, now I question you. You see, talking about eternity, there are two meanings or concepts at the same time. The one is that the finite life is going on infinitely, infinity, millions of years. That is one way to think about eternity.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No. Pure consciousness is actually you are. Just like water. Water is pure. When it is comes from the sky, it is clear crystal water. But as soon as it touches the ground, it becomes muddy. Similarly, we soul, spirit soul, we are pure. As soon as we come in contact with this matter, material existence, we become impure. And there are three stages of impurity: goodness, passion and ignorance. So all of them are impure. Unless one comes to the spiritual consciousness—he may be a very nice man—he is infected with the impurity of goodness. He is thinking, "I am very big man, I am very..." That is also impurity. And another man does not know what he is, just like animal, all the animals. That is also impurity. When both of them will come to the clear consciousness that "I am part and parcel of God; my duty is to serve God," that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So long he identifies with this material consciousness, he is impure. Just like people are fighting: "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am this," "I am that," "I am black," "I am white," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra"—so many, designations. These designations are impurity. Just like sometimes the artists, they manufacture some statue naked. In France I saw, naked. They take it this naked statue is pure art, not dressed. Similarly, when you come to the nakedness of spirit soul without this designation of this body, "I am American," "I am German," "I am this," "I am that," that is purity.
Satsvarūpa: " ...and according to their own fruitive activities they are transmigrating from one species of life to another and from one planet to another. In this way their engagement in material existence is being continued since time immemorial. The living entities are atomic parts and parcels of the supreme spirit. There is, however, a measurement for the length and breadth of the atomic spiritual spark. It is said in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Tenth Canto, Eighty-seventh Chapter, thirty-sixth verse, that if you divide the top of a hair into one hundred parts and again if you divide one part of that into another one hundred parts, such 1/10,000th part of the tip of a hair is the length and breadth of the individual soul. This is also confirmed in the Vedas in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad. This atomic magnitude of the individual living entity is again described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eleventh Canto, Sixteenth Chapter, eleventh verse, as follows. This is a speech given by one of the four Kumāras known as Sunanda on the occasion of performing a great sacrifice. He said, 'O supreme truth, if the living entities were not infinitesimal sparks of the supreme spirit, then each minute spark would have been all-pervading and there would be no necessity of its being controlled.' "
Prabhupāda: That is very... Otherwise... If the living entity is equal to the Supreme Being, then... Suppose you are a living entity. You could speak everything of what is going on in others' mind or body. You cannot say what I am thinking. I cannot say what you are thinking. Therefore I or you are not all-pervading. We are limited. And that is living entity. This is a very nice example. Go on.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's said. And that is much. These rascals are chewing the chewed. One thing one has chewed, and throwing it, and again another person trying to chew it—if there is any mellow, if there is any sweetness. This is going on. Just like our Indian leaders, they are going to chewing the chewed. They are seeing the effect of material civilization in the Western countries, and they are going to imitate it, thinking that they will be happy with that. They are giving up their own culture, and they are going to accept another culture which is already failed (?) andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31).
- matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
- mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
- adānta gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
- punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
- (SB 7.5.30)
Adānta gobhir. Real disease is adānta go, uncontrolled senses. Viśatāṁ tamisram, entering into the darkest region of material existence. Punaḥ punaś carvita carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, again and again, the same sense gratification. Sometimes as a human being, sometimes as a hog, sometimes as a dog, sometimes as a demigod. But the business is the same: punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either at home or in the club or...
Brahmānanda: Why is India not satisfied with its own culture? If the Westerners are now going after the spiritual culture...
Gaṇeśa:
- janma karma ca me divyaṁ
- evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
- tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
- naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
- (BG 4.9)
Translation. "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."
Prabhupāda: This is the solution of the real problem, that after... If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then after giving up this body, you don't accept another material body. And in the material existence the problems are not solved because you have to, after death, you have to accept another material body. And as soon as you accept a material body, the sufferings are there, at least these four sufferings: birth, death, old age, and disease. So it continues. If you take the body of a human being, the birth, death, old age, disease are there. If you take the body of a heavenly demigod, the birth, death, old age, and disease are there. Or if you take the body of a dog, the birth, death, old age, disease are there. So any kind of birth, material body, you have to accept these four problems. And there are many other problems. But if you stop accepting a material body, then these things are finished. So we are training people, simply janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). What is the purport?
Prabhupāda: They are making real advancement. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Their these material anxieties will be over. They are making advancement. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam (CC Antya 20.12). By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa their dirty heart will be cleansed, and as soon as it is fully cleansed, the problems of material existence will be over. No more anxiety.
Paramahaṁsa: They seem happy, but... The devotees of Kṛṣṇa seem happy, but they don't do much practical work. They always sing and dance and ask for some money. But they don't work any practical thing. We're doing so many practical things.
Prabhupāda: Dancing is not working? And writing book is not working? Selling book is not working? What is working then? Hm? Like monkey jumping? Yes? That is working?
Amogha: But we are helping people practically like in the hospital or the alcoholics...
Prabhupāda: No, what... How you are helping? Do you think if one goes to hospital he will not die? And how you are helping? You are thinking you are helping.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is transcendental, this microphone, because it is being used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose. The same flower, when you use it for sense gratification, it is material. The same flower when you offer to Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. The flower is not different, but by the different use it becomes material and spiritual. I think I have said many times that there is actually no material existence. Therefore it is called māyā. Māyā means it has no actual existence. We create an atmosphere. That is māyā. Atmosphere of forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. Anartha. Anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam (SB 1.7.6). If this park is given to us, we can immediately make it Vaikuṇṭha. We know how to do it. But it is not given to us. The same electric energy is creating heater and cooler. For the cooler there is no different electric energy. And for the heater there is no different—the same electric. Similarly, the material and spiritual is coming from Kṛṣṇa's energy.
How Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? That is spiritual. In Bhagavad-gītā it is said that "These material elements, they are also My energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Bhinna, separated, a little separated, that's all. Separated means as soon as you separate Kṛṣṇa from anything, that is material. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is wanted. The māyāvādī philosophers, they are taking because the senses are creating so much trouble, material existence, finish this-śūnyavādi. But that will not solve the problem. Problem will be solved that you keep your eyes. You don't require to finish it, but cure it. Just like you medical man. If one is blind out of cataract, you don't say that you pluck it, the eye, and throw it. No. "Please cure it and you'll be able to see." This is the difference between māyāvādī philosopher and Vaiṣṇava philosopher. They want to pluck it out, make it zero, śūnyavāda.
Dr. Patel: Śūnyavāda.
Prabhupāda: No, no. This is the philosophy. Śūnyavādī means they want to make it zero. Your are troubling, you have got so much trouble with your eyes: don't bother, pluck it out! This is their philosophy. And our philosophy is, "No, there is no need of plucking out. Just cure it and you'll see." That is...
Dr. Patel: That is what the Kaṭhopaniṣad teaches us.
Prabhupāda: Every Vedic scripture will advise you. You take this Upaniṣad or that Upaniṣad; the ultimate is Gitopaniṣad. The final, Gitopaniṣad. Yes, Gītā is Upaniṣad.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa's favor. Yes. Kṛṣṇa is favoring to finish this job.
Indian man: Now we know that janma is.... I told him they may not be having many other janma, that may be why they are suffering like this now.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no suffering. Their material existence is being reduced on account of serving Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man: One lady is there in Bombay, whole family, old lady, young children die.
Prabhupāda: Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8). This is special favour of Kṛṣṇa because they, by this pious activity, they wanted this material enjoyment, which you are complaining, that they are reducing material enjoyment. But that is Kṛṣṇa's favor. He doesn't want reduction of material enjoyment; at the same time, they want to worship Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is seeing that these fools, they want Me, and at the same time material enjoyment. So "Finish their material enjoyment; they will simply think of Me."
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That means cheating themselves. What is the use of taking sannyāsa and cheat yourself? Material life means punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly doing the same thing. Either as human being or as monkey or as a small ant or the demigods, but doing the business is the same, four things: eating, sleeping, mating and fearing. In different scale, doing the same business. Therefore it is called punaḥ punaḥ, "again and again," carvita-carvaṇānām, "chewing the chewed." If one is sober, he thinks that "These four business, I have done many, many lives, as sparrow, or as jackal, or as demigod, and I have got this human form. Again I am doing this? So what is benefit of this human form of life?" This is sense. "I got this valuable life, and I am still doing the same thing as dogs and cats and sparrows? Then what is the difference between me and the dogs?" That is sense. "What is my better engagement?" That better engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then his life is successful. Otherwise what is the use of...? Again become a sparrow. Again wait for millions of years to come by evolutionary process to the human form of life. You see? This is going on. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Because they cannot control the sense, they are going in the darkest part of this material existence.
Prabhupāda: Implicated by desires. We are desiring always, constantly. So the desire makes your next body. Every living entity in this material world is desiring how to enjoy. What is your question? Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How the eternal spirit soul becomes so completely absorbed that he completely forgets about the future and simply he becomes absorbed in some temporary sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That is material existence. Material existence means to satisfy senses. That is material existence. Don't you see that everyone is planning for some material.... Just that one man is the.... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa was saying that he was eating motorcar. Just see. (laughter) What is the meaning of this? But he is desiring like that, that "I shall be famous man by eating motorcar."
Guru dāsa: He's desiring for fame.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone can understand, "What is the use of this fame?" but he is desiring. This is going on. That is the cause of his bondage. This life he's desiring to eat motorcar, next life he is desiring to eat something, enjoy something, varieties of mano-dharma, mental concoction, and that is his bondage. Kṛṣṇa is so kind; whatever he desires, he is given the facility: "All right, take it."
Prabhupāda: So in this way... You are all intelligent, you can plan. The aim is how to distribute books. That is first consideration. (break) In Bhāgavata it is very figuratively described that we have got this body and the different parts. Just like Arjuna is sitting on the chariot. There is chariot driver, there are horses, reins. There is field, and the arrow, and the bow. They have been figuratively. So this can be used for killing the enemies of our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and then give up all this paraphernalia, chariot, we... Just like after fighting, only victory, then you kill them. And similarly this body is there, the mind is there, the senses are there. So utilize it for conquering over this material existence. And then give up this body and go back to home.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does the devotee, I mean just like you are always enthusing us to push on...
Prabhupāda: That is sharpening your weapons. That is also described. By serving the spiritual master, you keep your weapon always sharpened. And then take help from Kṛṣṇa, the words of spiritual master sharpen weapon and yasya prasādad bhagavata..., and the spiritual master is happy, then Kṛṣṇa immediately will help. He gives you strength. Suppose you got a sword, sharpened sword. But if you have no strength, what will you do with the sword?
Prabhupāda: A big dream, that's all. Material existence means a big dream. How long you'll dream? So long you are in this body. And as long as the body is finished, your dream is finished. Your nation, your society, your friends, your money, your bank, everything finished. Is it not a dream? Then dream another—you become cats and dogs or demigods. You dream in a different way. You are now dreaming as American; next life you may dream something else.
Bharadvāja: So every man has his own world that he's living in?
Prabhupāda: Eh? He creates his own world. Nothing is own—temporary—he creates, and Kṛṣṇa gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy." Hare nāma, hare nāma.
Govardhana-dhārī: While doing books we create an atmosphere sometimes, the devotees..., Kṛṣṇa gives us the intelligence to give the spiritual world to these living entities. How can we always stay on that transcendental platform, to make them see this? (break) (in car:)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If the soul is the living force, if the soul actually leaves the body, how the body will be..., work.
Rāmeśvara: There's some connection still. When the soul is..., when the body..., when you are dreaming, and the soul leaves the body, but still there must be some connection between the soul...
Prabhupāda: Connection is there, just like you leave your car, you keep the engine going on—gug gug gug gug gug gug—but you are not there. The engine, you keep it started.
Nalinīkaṇṭha:
- tato yateta kuśalaḥ
- kṣemāya bhavam āśritaḥ
- śarīraṁ pauruṣaṁ yāvan
- na vipadyeta puṣkalam
"Therefore, while in material existence (bhavam āśritaḥ), a person fully competent to distinguish wrong from right must endeavor to achieve the highest goal of life as long as the body is stout and strong and is not embarrassed by dwindling." (Purport) "As stated by Prahlāda Mahārāja at the beginning of this chapter, kaumāra ācaret prājñaḥ. The word prājña refers to one who is experienced and who can distinguish right from wrong. Such a person should not waste his energy and valuable human lifetime simply working like a cat or dog to develop his economic condition."
Prabhupāda: Modern education, they cannot understand that this repetition of birth, death, old age and disease is a botheration. They do not understand that. Why they accept it? Accept it, they think there is no other way. But if there is a way to stop this, why do they not take it? Hm? What is the value of this education? They cannot distinguish between right and wrong. Nobody likes death, but death is there. Nobody likes to become old, but the old age is there. Why they set aside these big problems and he's proud of scientific advancement of knowledge? What kind of education this is? If they cannot distinguish between right and wrong, then what is the result of this education?
Prabhupāda: Prahlāda Mahārāja afraid of this material life, not of Nṛsiṁha-deva. Such a fierceful appearance, he knows "He's my Lord." No fear, but he's afraid of this material existence. Trasto 'smi, read it, the same verse, trasto 'smi.
Hṛdayānanda: Trasto 'smy ahaṁ kṛpaṇa-vatsala duḥsahogra.
Prabhupāda: Duḥsahogra: this material life, the tribulation, it is unbearable. Trasto 'smi, duḥsaha ugra. Hm. Then?
Hṛdayānanda: Saṁsāra-cakra.
Prabhupāda: Ah, saṁsāra-cakra. Then?
Hṛdayānanda: Kadanād grasatāṁ praṇītaḥ, baddhaḥ sva-karmabhir uśattama...
Prabhupāda: "And when I am put into this condition... Not that I am accusing You. It is due to my own fault, sva-karmabhiḥ, by my own resultant action of karma." Then?
Hṛdayānanda: Uśattama te 'ṅghri-mūlam.
Prabhupāda: "Therefore kindly engage me in Your service." What is the translation?
Prabhupāda: Why not? He's the most beautiful. Otherwise, why people are attracted? There is a verse in the Brahma-saṁhitā: kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobham (Bs. 5.30); barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. He has got one peacock feather on His head and He's blackish, but wonderfully beautiful. These words are used. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya. He's so beautiful that thousands of Cupids cannot be compared with His beauty. Cupid is understood to be the most beautiful person within this universe. You know Cupid? Yes. He enchants by beauty. But Kṛṣṇa's beauty is so great that millions of beauty, kandarpa or Cupid, cannot be compared with Him. Kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (Bs. 5.30). It is a question of attraction. It is not a question of black and white. Attraction. So unless Kṛṣṇa is beautiful, why He has got so many millions of devotees? This very word is kandarpa-koṭi. Barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam. His blackness is compared with the black cloud. Asita-ambuda, ambuda means the cloud. The black cloud is full of water. When there is black cloud in the sky, you can be sure that the rain is going to fall down. Not the white cloud. White cloud means no water. Is it not? So you understand this philosophy and add water to the suffering humanity. They are suffering in the burning, blazing fire of material existence. So blazing fire can be extinguished when the water falls from the sky, not by your fire brigade. When there is blazing fire in the forest, it is beyond your control. You cannot get there fire brigade. So these small attempts of fire brigade is useless to extinguish the blazing fire of this material existence.
Hari-śauri: Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka **. There's one tape, you describe the very first thing when one follows the instructions of a spiritual master is that he's freed from all different kinds of material difficulties. He immediately feels some relief from material existence. First sign of a bona fide spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Go on reading.
Jayādvaita.: "Material perplexities are like a forest fire that somehow blazes without being set by anyone. Similarly, the world situation is such that perplexities of life automatically appear, without our wanting such confusion. No one wants fire, and yet it takes place and we become perplexed. The Vedic wisdom therefore advises that in order to solve the perplexities of life and to understand the science of the solution, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master who is in the disciplic succession. A person with a bona fide spiritual master is supposed to know everything. One should not therefore remain in material perplexities but should approach a spiritual master. This is the purport of this verse. Who is the man in material perplexities? It is he who does not understand the problems of life. In the Bṛhad-āraṇyaka Upaniṣad the perplexed man is described as follows: yo vā etad akṣaraṁ gārgy aviditvāsmāl lokāt praiti sa kṛpaṇaḥ."
Prabhupāda: No, you have to go above rajas-tamaḥ. Rajas-tamaḥ means greediness and lust.
- tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ
- kāma-lobhādayaś ca ye
- ceta etair anāviddhaṁ
- sthitaṁ sattve prasīdati
- (SB 1.2.19)
If you want peace and happiness, then you have to transcend the platform of rajas-tamaḥ and come to the platform of goodness. Then you have to transcend the goodness platform and come to the vasudeva platform, Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. This is progress. Tadā rajas-tamo-bhāvāḥ kāma-lobha. Rajas tamas means kāma and lobha, endless greediness and endless lusty desires. That will keep us within the category of material existence. Mūḍhā janmani janmani aprāpya mām (BG 16.20). Then we remain mūḍha, life after life. That is not the aim of human life. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). We take once type of body and struggle and again die, and again accept another, another type of body. There are 8,400,000 different types of body. This is going on. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: This is transmigrating. He's put into this circumstances, so he gets this body. (break) ...in our society, he's living in a room, but if he has got some difficulty, he says... Then the authority gives him another room, "All right, you go there." This is transmigration. He must get a place according to his capacity, according to his quality. Go on reading.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "This change of dress is due to his attachment to material existence. As long as he is captivated by this false manifestation, he has to continue transmigrating from one body to another. Due to his desire to lord it over material nature, he is put into such..."
Prabhupāda: If he wants to remain in this material world, creates a situation and continues his desire, then he has to take... And when he understands that "To live in this material condition is very troublesome. Why shall I live here?" then he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and he goes back to home, back to... And so long he desires, "No, why not? If I remain in this situation, I'll be happy," then he'll have to get a body. Nature will give him all chances: "Get this body." If one is very pleased to take raw flesh, "All right, why artificially? Take this body, tiger." That's all. Nature is... God is so kind. Before we were talking of God's mercifulness, so if you are thinking that it is very happy life to eat, without any discrimination, anything, so immediately God orders nature, "You give him body of a pig. He can eat anything, even up to stool.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) If you go somewhere, you must know first of all why you have gone there. That is the first question. If you go to a store, the first business is that you have gone to purchase some particular thing from the store. That is understood. Similarly, why one should go to a spiritual master? What is the purpose? Answer any one of you.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: One is..., when one is confused and frustrated by this material existence, he wants to find an answer to his problem. So there are different authorities in the world offering solutions, but one has to find the actual authority.
Prabhupāda: That is the purport. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsu śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). One has to go to guru when one is inquisitive. Jijñāsu. Jijñāsu means we want to know so many things; that is our nature. Child also wants to know. He asks his parents, "What is this, father? What is this, mother?" That inquisitiveness is there in everyone. So when one wants to know about the Supreme, then he requires a guru, or spiritual master. It is not a fashion that "Everyone keeps a guru; let me also have a guru." Not like that. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). "In order to understand the transcendental science, one has to go to guru." Jijñāsu śreya uttamam. After artha,... Just like generally, naturally, one goes to temple, church... Four classes of men. One is needy: "O God, give us our daily bread."
Prabhupāda: Today I am in American body, I have got so many duties as American. Tomorrow I may be American dog body. So immediately my duty changes. So that is not my real business. My real business is how to elevate myself as spirit soul to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead." Then he changes his... Ceto... Bhava... Then this materialistic activity is stopped. He is no more interested, that "This is simply waste of time." That is knowledge, that "I am simply acting for the benefit and comfort of the body. This is simply waste of time. I must act spiritually." That is called ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart. He is wrongly working on the basis of bodily concept of life. That illusion is over simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This is the first installment, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, and bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Then he is in the process to stop the blazing fire of material existence. Then vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Then the ocean of transcendental bliss increases. Ānandāmbudhi-vardanaṁ sarvātmānam snapanaṁ. Wholesale blissful life. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. All glories to the chanting of Kṛṣṇa saṅkīrtana. Then the other processes... That is described in the Śikṣāṣṭaka. So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift, that kevalaya bhaktya. All the practices of austerities, penances, and mystic yoga, and so on, so on. There are so many things. Everything will be totally achieved simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Bhakti.
Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul.
Prabhupāda: So my business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is teachings of Lord Caitanya, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya (sic:) nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). So if he engages himself in his original spiritual business, to act as the servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all reformation is done. So that advantage is given in this age: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param... (SB 12.3.51). Reformatory process is meant for purifying him so he becomes mukta-saṅgaḥ. Mukta-saṅgaḥ means liberated from all this bad association of material existence. And he becomes eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. So this is the special advantage. The question is "Whether they should be revived?" They should be revived to the lowest necessity, but all of them cannot be revived in this age. But people should be induced to take to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa maha-mantra. Then all reformation will automatically become manifest and he will come to spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ, the realization of Brahman. Then prasannātmā, he'll be happy. There is no lamentation, there is no undesirable hankering. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He sees everyone on the spiritual platform. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In this way he comes to the platform of devotional service, and then his life becomes successful. Is that question answered or not?
Prabhupāda: This is their result. These rascals, atheist class, they'll suffer in this way. That is described now. Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu. "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."
Prabhupāda: This is the result. What is their explanation of the varieties of life?
Rādhāvallabha: They say, due to evolution over many millions of years...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The strongest, somehow they survive, and other, weaker species, they become extinct.
Rādhāvallabha: They say the origin of species is genetic.
Devotee (3): They say "Somehow or other..." Then...
Prabhupāda: Is that science? "Somehow or other." If I say, "Somehow or other, you'll become a dog," (laughter) what is the wrong there? If things are taking place somehow or other, so I say somehow or other you'll become a dog. Our explanation is complete. They accept somehow or other is a means. So somehow or other, you are going to be dog. How can you deny it? If that is your position, that things are taking place somehow or other, so how can you deny, somehow or other you'll become a dog? Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Tān—those; aham—I; dviṣataḥ—envious; krūrān—mischievous; saṁsāreṣu—into the ocean of material existence; narādhamān—the lowest of mankind; kṣipāmi—put; ajasram—innumerable; aśubhān—inauspicious; āsurīṣu—demoniac; eva—certainly; yoniṣu—in the wombs."
Prabhupāda: There are so many varieties of life, so we have to accept one of them by Kṛṣṇa's desire, Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. He's observing everything. So He orders that "Give him a body like this." Who can check it? Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). This body is a machine. The machine is given by material nature. Today you may be a very big man, and by your activities, asuric activities, you are so condemned that you have to accept a lower-grade life, a fox, sly fox. "You are very sly to spend others' money in moon excursion. Now you become a fox." So who can check it? Here it is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). So you cannot check it. You are not so great scientist. Then how do you say, "There is no God"? You cannot check God's law, so how you can say that there is no God? You can say at your home, "I don't care for government." And when government arrests you and puts you in difficulty, how can you check it? Is it possible? Then why do you submit that? When the police comes and arrests you, you can say, "No, no, I don't care for any officer." You cannot say. Is this not punishment? This tree is standing here for hundreds of years, and it will go on standing for thousands of years. Is it not punishment? So what the atheist will answer, this? Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll put him into this condition." What the atheist will answer?
Prabhupāda: That is their kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, Dr. Frog. But the fact is, any condition of material existence, there is possibility of living entity there. Sarva-ga, sthāṇur, acalo'yaṁ sarva-ga. Everywhere there is living entity. It is impossible to conclude that on other planets there is no living entity. It is not possible.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it possible to do some experiments?
Prabhupāda: You experiment, you see a dead body. It is obnoxious smelling, but living entities coming.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, to show that matter is generated by life, we want to do some experiment.
Prabhupāda: That is there. Every day we are experiencing, huh? Just the same seed and the living entity comes and it becomes a tree and it grows, big tree, huge body. And as soon as it is dead, the body is not increasing. This is experiment. Everything is coming from life. Kṛṣṇa says, He's the supreme life, He says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8). He's the origin of everything, both matter and life, everything. Matter also coming from life, life is also coming from life. Therefore life is the original source of everything. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So janmādy asya yataḥ is life. That is explained in the Bhāgavata. Janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). That source of everything is life and is fully conscious of everything what is happening. Anvayāt, indirectly and directly, fully conscious. That is life.
Prabhupāda: Not like madmen. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Then Ṛṣabhadeva instructs, nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This body, although I have got this body, and the dog has got the body, or the hog has got the body, but these bodies are not meant for being spoiled like the dogs and hogs. The hog is also whole day working to find out where is stool. So if you also work whole day and night for our sense gratification, then where is the difference between the hog's life and my life. The human life, human brain should be sober to understand what is the problem of life, why I'm subjected to so many tribulations, how to remedy, how to find out the remedy and that requires tapasya. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). In order to create that brain, it requires a little tapasya. Therefore we are recommending no illicit sex, no meat eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Because we are already mad by material existence, and again we are... If you are forced to become more and more mad by intoxication, by meat eating, by this... Then where is your life? Your life is finished. Because to understand these problems of life requires a little brain.
Prabhupāda: This is their punishment.
Harikeśa: "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence into various demoniac species of life."
Prabhupāda: And next verse?
Harikeśa:
- āsurīṁ yonim āpannā
- mūḍhā janmani janmani
- mām aprāpyaiva kaunteya
- tato yānty adhamāṁ gatim
- (BG 16.20)
"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."
Prabhupāda: So this is my request, that our money... There is nothing our money. Everything Kṛṣṇa's. But we are thinking. Because we are asuric. So asuras think like that. Just like Kaṁsa, Hiraṇyakaśipu. "Ha!" Rāvaṇa. "Ha! What is Rāma?" That is asura's. They think like that, and that is asuric. But otherwise īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Therefore yajña is advised. The sooner you hand over Kṛṣṇa's property to Kṛṣṇa, it is good for you.
Prabhupāda: Fear must be. If he's a gentleman he must be afraid of this material world. That is very good qualification. If one is afraid of this material existence, it is very good symptom.
Akṣayānanda: Just about every devotee, before coming to you, has thought about suicide.
Prabhupāda: Suicide? Oh.
Akṣayānanda: So many, I know I have spoken with them. And myself included.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there was no hope. What is the use.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. Just about every devotee, they have thought of suicide.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they commit suicide. I have seen. Fall from the...
Hari-śauri: Skyscraper.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tower. From the bridge.
Hari-śauri: They have to put big wire screens up to stop people from jumping off.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I have seen.
Prabhupāda: So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is purely a spiritual movement. Therefore sometimes it is little difficult to understand the activities of this movement. There are two things, material and spiritual. That is the beginning of instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa begins with this statement: that this body is not the person, the soul is the person. Asmin dehe. Within this body there is the soul. And he has explained in different ways that this body is antavanta ime dehā (BG 2.18). This body is perishable, but the soul is not perishable. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), that even after the destruction of the body the soul is not destroyed. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. The soul never takes birth, never dies. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). There are so many things explained, what is the soul. So without the soul, this body is useless. That everyone can understand. Therefore the importance should be given to the soul, not to the body. Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is paṇḍita, in knowledge, he does not give any importance to the body, either living or dead. So the India's particular culture is how to elevate the soul to the highest platform of perfection. That is India's culture. The whole Vedic literature is meant for that, and Bhagavad-gītā is the essence of all Vedic literature. And the purpose is that soul is now entrapped within this material world, and the human life is the opportunity for getting oneself out of this entrapment of material existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, if the brain is clear—it is not filled up with rubbish cow dung—then Kṛṣṇa consciousness easy. Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means there is no more material consciousness. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). That is required. In material existence we have got so many obligations, thoughts (indistinct), and so many things. Bṛthā.
- eta saba chāḍi' āra varṇāśrama-dharma
- akiñcana hañā laya kṛṣṇaika-śaraṇa
Sarva-dharmān: Everything give up. That is India's Vedic civilization. They are not concerned with the material advancement. Simple life. That's all. And our present leaders, they are thinking that "brainwashed." They are not deeply thinking, "Why our great sages and ācāryas recommended this life, not the skyscraper life? Why? They were not less intelligent." They are not thinking in that way. They are thinking that "Because we neglected the skyscraper thoughts, we are so backward." At least this rascal Nehru was thinking like that. "So finish this." The Russia is... What is called? Opiate, brainwashed. These things are accepted like that. "It has no value, simply some prejudice and superstition, and they are thinking like that and they are spoiling their material side of life." This is their idea. "What is this? No meat-eating?" (knock on the door devotee enters with prasādam ) That little dāl, daliya,(?) bas.
Jagadīśa: There is one confusion in my mind, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Mahāṁśa said that the local villagers will not be inclined to come here and live because they are living just outside. But my impression was, from hearing you speak was, that everyone, whether they're living just outside or a long distance outside, they are suffering from material existence. They're having to struggle for existence. They're being taxed by the government. There's so many problems to maintain themself. And every living being in the material world is struggling to maintain himself. But if we offer them a house here and some work and we give them all food, clothing, and...
Prabhupāda: That is our aim.
Jagadīśa: That's our aim.
Prabhupāda: That is our aim. So you can engage some men to cut the hill for blocks and gradually develop house.
Tejas: These Badapur (?), they are good men.
Prabhupāda: Like this room, yes. And as far as possible, induce them to come and live here.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means he could not get any spiritual idea. Asad grahāt. Material existence means accepting something which will not exist, asat. Asato mā sad gamaya. The Vedic instruction is: "Do not remain in this material world, and make your progress..." Asato mā sad gamaya. But people are so accustomed to materialistic way of life that they are reluctant. That is māyā, very strong. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult. Māyā tries to punish every conditioned soul, and as soon as there is some attempt to get out of the clutches of māyā, she becomes still strong: "Where you shall go my dear son? You remain with me." Yaḥ devī sarva-bhūteṣu nidra-rūpiṇa sam...(?) In the Caṇḍī, yaḥ devī, he is situated, keeping the conditioned souls in dream. He is simply dreaming, "I'll be happy in this way; I'll be happy in that way." And that is mental concoction. He'll never be happy. Kṛṣṇa said moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ, āsurīṁ bhāvam āśri... (BG 9.12). Because he has not recognized the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all his hopes and endeavors will be baffled. So even a person like Mahatma Gandhi, he became baffled.
Guest (1): Yes, that's right. He admitted also.
Prabhupāda: And what to speak of others. His ambition was Hindu-Muslim unity. So that was banned.
Jagadīśa: People are lazy and unfortunate. They have no knowledge. And besides that, they are misled by foolish leaders. The leaders are intent only on deriving sense gratification from their so-called high position. In the Bhāgavatam also it is explained that men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who do not glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a civilization of fools, a fool's paradise where the common people are allowed to elect from amongst them one so-called leader who is the biggest rascal because he doesn't know anything, and none of the others, the common, people know anything about the purpose of life, and yet this so-called leader becomes elected on the basis that he can do something to help suffering humanity. The material existence is nothing but a struggle against material nature which ultimately has no value. But it's an illusory struggle because of the spirit soul...
Prabhupāda: Why it has no value?
Jagadīśa: Because there is no...
Prabhupāda: He'll not say that is has no value. You must give the reason why it has no value.
Jagadīśa: It has no value because there is no permanent connection between the spirit soul and the material energy. There are two kinds of energy: material energy and spiritual energy. We have experience of both. The material energy is described in the Seventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is the essence. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam (SB 5.5.2). Tamo-dvāram. Viśatāṁ tamisram adānta-gobhiḥ. Adānta-gobhiḥ, by uncontrolled senses, one is going down and down to the darkest region of material existence. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. So those who are sensuous... One should not be sensuous. That is also... And if he mixes with sensuous persons, then he also going to the hell.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. One who attaches himself to that.
Prabhupāda: He's also going to the hell. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). So without ācāryopāsanam, without being under the control of ācārya, these are all bogus.
Yogi Amrit Desai: That's exactly what I believe. That's so true.
Jagadīśa: Anahaṅkāra eva ca, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9).
Prabhupāda: They are showing some magic. Just like this child was being treated. So he could not check the process of death. Neither it is possible to stop the process of death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha... Our real unhappiness is this-janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. So otherwise why there is knowledge? He does not know what is the miserable condition of life. Everyone knows that he is going to die. He has taken birth; he has become old; he has suffered diseases. Then where is the solution?
Prabhupāda: That is our victory. That is victory because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said that viṣaya viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale, taribare nā koinu upāy, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy: "This material world is the burning fire of anxiety. So in order to get rid of it, we have to take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, which is imported from the spiritual sky." That is a fact. So as soon as you take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa, naturally we are relieved from this blazing fire of material existence. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Finished. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Mahā-dāvāgni, this fire of material existence, finished. That's a fact. So they have pointed out. This circumstance, it is good. Yes. That is the position. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that. In order to get rid of this blazing fire, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21): chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Rāmeśvara: Anyway, this goes on, but then what they're saying is there has to be a very big case where a cult leader of Hare Kṛṣṇa is sentenced to jail. So they're writing to say that "Now we have to find lawyers who will be willing to take up this cause very inexpensively."
Prabhupāda: That means there is no money.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually required. Prahlāda did not protest. It is a great sin, if your father is being killed before you, if you do not protest even, "Why you are killing?" not to give protection. But even if you do not, then you are not worthy son. So in that way Prahlāda Mahārāja was accused that in his presence his father was being killed. He did not protest, neither he... Rather, he was ready with the garland: (laughter) "As soon as my father is killed, immediately garland the Lord." So that is not the fact. And he is... Later on, he requested that "My father was a great offender. So kindly give him protection." So he's not..., that son. He knows... He knew that this, "My father is being killed by the nails of my Lord. It is his great fortune." Why shall he protest? He's seeing that "My father is being released from this material existence." Why shall he protest? And still to confirm it, he requested the Lord that "This, my rascal father made so many offenses..." But for him he did not ask anything, but he's such a good son that for demon father he requested. So how much faithful son he was, this is the proof. Not that he was unfaithful to him. He knew it, that "Let my father's body be separated from his soul by the Lord. That is good for him." And still to confirm it he personally requested that "My father may be excused." "Why your father? Your father's father, his father, everyone, up to fourteen generations."
Prabhupāda: Paropakāra. They have got this opportunity how to get out of this entanglement of being covered by the material body, and they are not being given the chance. And we are giving the chance so easy. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... (CC Antya 20.12). Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni, the same thing. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. This repetition of birth and death, it is the blazing fire of material existence. So when one understands that "What is my position?" then he'll do this, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, clear understanding, "Oh..." What is this nonsense nationality? Today I am Indian; tomorrow I am a dog. Where is my nation? Where is my family? Where is my father? Where is my mother? So to become mad after these things is my business, or to get out of this material entanglement is my business? And we have got so much facilities. Kṛṣṇa is instructing, Himself. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching personally how to live. And we are not taking advantage? What a suicidal policy. And they are becoming leader, Jayapataka Narayan and this... What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.
Ādi-keśava: So when someone becomes angry, that anger is frustration due to the fact that he experiences so many frustrations in the material world, and therefore he calls it void. He says, "Rather than experience the difficulty inherent in the temporality of the material world," instead he calls it void and says that it does not exist. Because it is causing so much distress because he cannot become satisfied in material existence, then he says...
Prabhupāda: Whether it has got any value? Whether such statement has any value?
Harikeśa: Whether such statement has any value?
Ādi-keśava: To say that it has no existence, that it is all void.
Prabhupāda: One, you... Talk on this point. Just like a small animal, rabbit. When he's attacked, he closes the eyes. He thinks, "There is nothing." Now he is devoured. So it is like that. He cannot adjust things, and "That is zero, bas." But that's not the fact. Hm? Simply by closing your eyes you want to avoid danger? Discuss on this.
Bhakti-prema: When we generalize our senses inwards, it becomes inert. When we go beyond body and senses it becomes inert. But we have to penetrate deep into that state of consciousness, and it can be possible only through Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Svarūpa Dāmodara? You also.
Prabhupāda: Hm. This is... Saṁsāriṇāṁ karuṇayā.
Girirāja: Saṁsāriṇāṁ karuṇayāha purāṇa-guhyaṁ taṁ vyāsa-sūnum upayāmi guruṁ munīnām: "Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto him, Śuka, the spiritual master of all sages, the son of Vyāsadeva, who, out of his great compassion for those gross materialists who struggle to cross over the darkest regions of material existence, spoke this Purāṇa, supplement to the Vedas, the cream of Vedic knowledge, after having personally assimilated it by experience."
Prabhupāda: Hm. Read the next verse.
Girirāja:
- nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya
- naraṁ caiva narottamam
- devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsaṁ
- tato jayam udīrayet
- (SB 1.2.4)
"Before reciting this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which is our very means of conquest, I offer my respectful obeisances unto the Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa; unto Nara-nārāyaṇa Ṛṣi, the supermost human being, unto mother Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning; and unto Śrīla Vyāsadeva, the author."
- munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ
- bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam
- yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno
- yenātmā suprasīdati
- (SB 1.2.5)
"O sages, I have been justly questioned by you."
Prabhupāda: These things can be exhibited. That's all right.
| Page Title: | Material existence (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 05 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=77, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 77 |