Prabhupāda: Hm. So engage all yourselves in the service of Kṛṣṇa. It is very pleasing, and what is called encouraging, enlivening. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is frustration. That stage is coming to your country. Therefore the boys are becoming hippies. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is—that is natural-frustration. There is a good example in our country, one Mr. C.R. Das. He was a great leader, next to Gandhi, important political leader. So he was on the topmost of... He was lawyer, barrister. He was earning fifty thousand dollars monthly, very rich man. And he was making charity, and he was spending like thing (anything). He was drunkard number one, woman-hunter number one, and everything. Because he had money he could enjoy everything. But he was not happy. So one day he was sitting with his wife. Just like in the street, he was looking over.
Material enjoyment (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That says, or... Everyone says different way. Mammon or dog is expression in the faith. That is the test. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says:
- yugāyitaṁ nimeṣeṇa
- cakṣuṣā prāvṛṣāyitam
- śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ
- govinda viraheṇa me
Yugāyitaṁ, "Every moment is just like twelve years." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, "crying like torrents of rain." Cakṣuṣā pravṛṣāyitam, śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ. "Oh, I find everything is vacant." Govinda viraheṇa me, "without God, without..." This is an ideal picture. So another test is, bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava-viraktir anyatra syāt. If one has become lover of God, naturally he will be detached to material enjoyment. Love of God and love of material world cannot go together. Either this or that. Just like Lord Jesus Christ. He never advised to, for economic development, for industrial development, or this and that. So many things. He sacrificed everything for God. That is one test, that "Here is a lover of God." He was punished that "You, you stop this preaching," but he did not. So that is love of God. He sacrificed everything. That is love of God. So the ideal is Lord Jesus Christ, and the follower must be, at least to some extent, to that point.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bob: I'll be getting married the end of this summer, in September or August, when I return to America. And the devotees say that the householders only have sex to conceive a child. And I cannot picture myself at all in such a position, and... What kind of sex life can one lead, living in the material world?
Prabhupāda: The Vedic principle is that one should avoid sex life altogether. The whole Vedic principle is to get liberation from this material bondage. And there are different attachments for this material enjoyment, out of which sex life is the source of topmost enjoyment. The Bhāgavata says that this material world... Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam (SB 5.5.8). Means that a man is attached to woman and woman is attached to man. Not only human society, in animal society also. That attachment is the basic principle of material life. So, a woman is hankering or seeking after the association of a man, and a man is hankering or seeking the association of a woman. Just like we see the, all the fictions, novels, dramas, this cinema, or even ordinary advertisement, simply they depict the attachment between man and woman. Even in tailor's shop you'll find on the window some woman, some man. (break) So this attachment is already there.
Bob: The attachment between man and woman.
Prabhupāda: Man and woman. So if you want to get liberation from this material world, then that attachment should be reduced to nil. Otherwise, simply for that attachment, you'll have to take birth and rebirth, either as human being or as demigod or as an animal, as a serpent, as a bird, as a beast. You have to take birth. So this basic principle of attachment, increasing, is not our business. It is decreasing. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam.
Prabhupāda: The public is educated in a different way. They are after technology. So and "familiarity breeds contempt." They say, "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? It is known to us since a long time. What effect it will have?" Many Indian students in foreign countries, they say, "Swamiji, what will this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement benefit us? We want technology." So that is the mentality of the Indians at the present moment. They have lost everything and therefore they are beggars. They have lost their own culture and therefore they are beggars. So I thought it wise that I shall go to a country where there is no poverty. They will learn. They have enough. For material enjoyment, they have got enough. The material enjoyment means money and woman. That is, in America, it is lying on the street. As much as you like, you can take. But they are disgusted with this material enjoyment. Therefore they are coming as hippies. They are coming from very rich family. Their fathers, their grandfathers, are very rich. At least they belong to the richest nation. But they are not satisfied. They are not satisfied. That is the natural sequence. The Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one has satisfied his senses sufficiently, he is no longer interested in sense gratification. Perhaps you know C.R. Das, the name of C.R. Das in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: So in the Tenth Chapter it is said, teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). Do you know this verse? Bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. "One who is engaged in devotional service with love and faith," buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi, "I give him intelligence." That is stated. Satata-yuktānām, "Twenty-four hours engaged with love and faith in My service, I give him intelligence, not to others." That is the qualification. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi te yena mām upayānti. What kind of intelligence? By which one can come back to home, back to Godhead. Not for material enjoyment, or bluffing or cheating. Not that intelligence. That intelligence also given by Him, indirectly. "If you want to cheat, all right, I will give you how to cheat others." That is material. In the material world, we can cheat. In the spiritual world, there is no question of cheating.
Jayatīrtha: The intelligence by which we can come to Kṛṣṇa is a special kind of intelligence.
Prabhupāda: That is perfect intelligence. Therefore we say Kṛṣṇa is the perfect teacher. In the Fifteenth Chapter, sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca: (BG 15.15) "I am sitting in everyone's heart. All intelligence, memory, is coming from Me, and forgetfulness also is caused by Me." So He is the supreme controller in every respect.
Jayatīrtha: Why are some people remembering and some people are forgetting Him?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: As soon you try to kill or attack, then he protests. And there is feeling also. Why? Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they want to enjoy the material world.
Prabhupāda: If you say so, then material enjoyment or enjoyment, material or spiritual, it doesn't matter...
Someone: Good morning.
Prabhupāda: Good morning. Thank you. (indistinct) Then every living entity wants to enjoy. And that is the Vedānta-sūtra. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Why they want to enjoy?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because that is the eternal position of the living being.
Prabhupāda: His constitutional position is ānandamaya, joyfulness, but he does not get here that ānanda. He's seeking that ānanda, but it is being checked by conditions. He cannot enjoy. There are so many impediments. Just like we want to walk. But there are so many impediments. We want to walk on the sea beach but there are so many obstacles. So my position is that I want to enjoy, and nature's position is that she will check it. She'll not allow. Why? Why I am put into this condition? What do the scientists reply, rascals?
Prabhupāda: According to Vedānta philosophy, every living entity is searching after delight. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). By nature, a living entity is delightful, but he has been covered by this temporary material covering, and therefore his delightness is perverted. So our philosophy, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, is that paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). If you give him better delight, then he can give up this inferior delight of material enjoyment. Otherwise, simply by instructing that "You give up this," it is difficult.
Buddhist Monk (1): That's right. You are... One has to... (Sanskrit or Pali:) Śambhuḥ pāpas cākāraṇa, kuśalasya upasampada sac citto parayodapanam etaṁ buddham anuśāsana. (?) Abstain from the unwholesome, the source of all our problems and suffering, lobha, doṣa, moha. Kuśalasya upasampada. Practice the virtues, that is when the mind is rooted in alobha, that is nongreed, liberality, including hospitality; adoṣa, nonhatred, evil, all-loving kindness; amoha opanya (?) wisdom. And why? When one is on the noble, eight-fold path-right understanding, right thinking, right speech, right bodily action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration—there is that oozing joy and delight. And that is the finest substitute. Men, because of avidyā, have not tasted delight. Because of his weakness, they thought mokṣa,... (knock on door)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much for your coming. I have read some of your ideas. So from your writing it appears you are nice, thoughtful man. Muni, the Sanskrit word is muni. Just like Nārada Muni. They are very thoughtful. So I have read one description of, "Crisis of Increasing Motor Cars," in this paper. Actually, we are creating a crisis. This advancement of modern civilization is simply creating crisis. One Vaiṣṇava poet, he has sung: sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye vilāsa. Sat-saṅga means spiritual association. So we have given up spiritual association, and asatye vilāsa, we have taken to material enjoyment. So sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu... There are two things, material and spiritual. So sat-saṅga chāḍi kainu asatye... "I have given up spiritual association, and I have taken to material association. Therefore I have become entangled." Sei karaṇe lāgilā mora karma-bandha-phāṅsā. We are becoming more and more entangled in material activities. We are trying to solve one problem, and creating another big problem. Just like I was reading the "Motor Car Crisis." We thought that with a horseless carriage it will be very convenient to travel. But against that convenience, so-called convenience, we have created so many inconveniences. It is very nicely described in that paper I was reading.
Haṁsadūta: "Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramātmā, Supersoul, in everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who relishes His messages which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The chanting and hearing goes on. And if one agrees to hear and chant, then Kṛṣṇa helps from within. He cleanses. Suhṛt satām. Because He wants to reform them. Suhṛt satām. Everyone, especially the devotee. So He helps cleanse him. In this way, if he's given chance to hear, again and again, then the next verse... See.
Haṁsadūta: The next verse?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu nityaṁ bhāgavata... (SB 1.2.18).
Prabhupāda: Naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. His heart is filled up with so many dirty things. So by that process, when he agrees to hear, chanting and hearing... Therefore we say: "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." I say Hare Kṛṣṇa, and we ask others to chant. Response. By this process, his heart becomes cleansed. And next verse says: naṣṭa-prāyeṣu abhadreṣu. Not that it has become completely cleansed.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. And there are 8,400,000 forms of bodies. The cats and dogs, they are also living entities, but they have got a different type of body. Every one of us, different type body. Even they are children, their body is different from your body. Even the (indistinct). Although their body is obtained, there are some similarities. But if you analyze very scrutinizingly there will be some difference from your body, from your daughter's body, from your boy's body. So every body, every living entity is getting a certain type of body according to his desire. According to his desire. So that desire means material enjoyment. Just like you have got certain desire to become champion in racing. Another body has got desire to become something else. Another body has got desire for something else. So we have got this freedom by the grace of God or Kṛṣṇa. Because we are children. He has given freedom. "All right, if you want this, take it." In this way our life is going on. This is called birth and death. One chapter you are finishing in one life, next chapter begins another life. Next chapter begins another life. So the problem is birth and death. But nobody wants birth and death. Nobody wants. But it is there on account of our material life. So in material life there are four problems: birth, death, old age, and disease. So long one has to accept a material body, he has to accept these miseries also. Birth is also misery. When the child remains within the womb, in a compact bag... Very precarious condition. We have forgotten, but it is very precarious condition.
Prabhupāda: Vidhunoti suhṛt satām. What is the meaning?
Śrutakīrti: "Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramātmā, Supersoul, in everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who relishes His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted."
Prabhupāda: This is the process. If you hear about Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa is within yourself. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). When he sees you are anxious, then he helps you in cleansing the dirty things within your heart. Purport read?
Śrutakīrti: Messages of the Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa are nondifferent from Him. Whenever, therefore, offenseless hearing and glorification of God are undertaken, it is to be understood that Lord Kṛṣṇa is present there in the form of transcendental sound, which is as powerful as the Lord personally. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, in His Śikṣāṣṭaka, declares clearly that the holy name of the Lord has all the potencies of the Lord and that He has endowed His innumerable names with the same potency. There is no rigid fixture of time, and anyone can chant the holy name with attention and reverence at his convenience.
Prabhupāda: Then you'll get perpetual, blissful life. So everyone is seeking after blissful life, but that is not possible in this materialistic way of life. That is not possible. One must seek blissful life in spiritual understanding, brahma-saukhyam, brahma-sukha. That is required. Transcendental pleasure. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani. Satyānande, real happiness, in the spiritual understanding, spiritual platform. Iti rāma-padenāsau paraṁ brahmābhidhīyate (CC Madhya 9.29). That kind of enjoyment is called rāma. Ramaṇa. From ramaṇa, rāma. That is wanted. So there is no education at the present moment. But people are hankering. Western people especially. They've have seen enough of this material enjoyment, now they are hankering after their spiritual life. Therefore they look forward towards the Vedic culture. This is the answer.
Guest (3) (Indian man): What is the purpose of Lord for creating human life or animal life or so many things? Why...?
Prabhupāda: There are two things. One material, one spiritual. Spiritually, India is happy, those who are actually spiritualists. But materially, India is unhappy. Spiritually, even if you still go in the interior of village, poor man, living in a cottage, he is taking bath three times and doing his professional work, a cultivator, having little food, and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. They are happy actually. They have got their family, husband, wife, some children. If one lives spiritual life, he is actually happy. Materially, nobody can be happy. In your country, although there is enough facility for material enjoyment, actually they are not happy. Otherwise why in your country the hippies are coming out? They are coming from respectable, rich parents, nation, but they have given up their home, their father's opulence, mother's opulence. That I have seen practically. Practically all my students... Here, Brahmānanda, his father, at least he was a big industrialist, mother. But he did not like. He joined this movement. Similarly, Girirāja, his father is a big lawyer, rich man. But he did not like that. There are many, many students, their father's are... Śyāmasundara's father is big lawyer, rich man, businessman. He is the only son. But he did not like his father. So there are many... Even though he is not our student, still, I do not know. I have seen in Los Angeles, Beverly Hills. You know? That is a rich quarter. Very nice house. And one boy is coming, he is hippie, and riding on his car and going. Then I saw, although it is such a nice rich quarter, there are also hippies. That I could study. Why these boys are becoming hippies? And New York you know, the hippies are lying here and there in Fifth Avenue, Central Park, and they are worshiping pig. (laughs) You know that?
Prabhupāda: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was reading in one of the books you translated that you said that as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the mentality of all of the people in that area, they lose their desires for material enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: No. Material enjoyment, you enjoy, but not like cats and dogs. You enjoy material life like human being. That is our proposal. Not like cats and dogs. Is it not enjoyment when you sit down in the Deity room and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read philosophy? It is not enjoyment?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yes, it is very nice.
Prabhupāda: So this is human enjoyment. And to go to the brothel and drink and fight and talk all nonsense, is that enjoyment?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: No.
Prabhupāda: That is cats' and dogs' enjoyment. We must enjoy like human being. Enjoyment is not denied. Why should we deny?
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Therefore, at the present moment, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Demons, they are too much attached to material enjoyment, bhoga and aiśvarya. So they cannot take to it. Therefore our general principle is to perform saṅkīrtana, not to talk philosophy. When one is interested, then he can talk philosophy. Otherwise this talk should be amongst inner circles, with the students and the teacher, those who are submissive. Otherwise it should be avoided. It will create misunderstanding.
Satsvarūpa: What about programs at schools and colleges?
Prabhupāda: Because they are innocent. The children, they are innocent. So if possible, give them some enlightenment, kṛpā, to become merciful upon them. So far children are concerned, they hear, they try to learn. Just like in Dallas, whatever we say, they accept. They do not protest. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then?
Girirāja: "Vasudeva thought of his wife as follows: 'For the present let me save the life of Devakī and later on, if there are children, I shall see how to save them.' He further thought..."
Prabhupāda: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that...
Prabhupāda: One has to practice. It will take some time. (break) ...yuktena cetasā nānya-gāminā. One has to practice. That means his determination is not yet fixed up. Because he is very rich, he is thinking that "This is all right." That is another defect of becoming very much rich. Bhogaiśvarya prasaktānāṁ tayā upahṛta-cetasām: (BG 2.44) "Those who are too much attached to this material enjoyment and..., by which his consciousness is bewildered..." All these defects are there because he is too much attached to material enjoyment. Why don't you give him dress if he has no dress. This is not good. You have not marked it?
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then what is this? He's... Give him dress. (break) Give him lesson how to make tilaka. He has come to your shelter. You teach him. (break) Just like a diseased person, if he is a little careless, he is not very strict in following the..., it will take some time. It is exactly like that. He, because of his material opulences, he thinks that "Oh, where is the disease? This is all right. I am happy." That is the defect. We have to reduce. That is called tapasya. Not that "Because my tongue is asking me to eat something, therefore I must eat." Not that. That is the difference between ordinary man and gosvāmī. Gosvāmī means one who has conquered over the dictation of the senses. My sense dictates to do something, but when I am able to dictate the sense, "No, you cannot do it," that is called gosvāmī. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Dr. Patel: ...maybe an African or Indian?
Prabhupāda: In the material concept of life, when one works for sense gratification, there is misery, but in the absolute world, when one is engaged in pure devotional service, there is no misery. The devotee in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has nothing to lament or desire. Since God is full, a living entity who is engaged in God's service, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, becomes also full in himself. He is just like a river cleansed of all dirty water. Because a pure devotee has no thought other than Kṛṣṇa, he is naturally always joyful. He does not lament for any material loss or gain because he is full in service of the Lord. He has no desire for material enjoyment because he knows that every living entity is the fragmental part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and therefore eternally a servant. He does not see, in the material world, someone as higher and someone as lower; higher and lower positions are ephemeral, and a devotee has nothing to do with ephemeral appearances or disappearances. For him stone and gold are of equal value.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we must give this education. We must induce them to read these books in the school, colleges. That is propaganda. Now we have got books. These rascals, they have no books to read about this realization. They have got only Freud's philosophy and this... What is that? And Darwin's theory. All rascaldom, simply rascaldom. Let them read these books. This philosopher, that philosopher. What is that? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The same philosophy, repeatedly for sense gratification, that's all. That rascal Mahesh Yogi, he also said that, "You take this special mantra; your material enjoyment will be easier." The same: the punaḥ punaś carvita. He has no other information. "It will be better." And they accepting. "Oh, my enjoyment will be better? All right, take $35. Give me that mantra." They like it because they are promising that "You will get this..." Politicians also, they are promising, "You take this ism. Your sense gratification will be easier." The same promise. This ism or that ism. This yogi, that yogi. But nobody knows what is actually happiness. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha (SB 7.5.31).
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But therefore, there are two ways of living. One way of living is called material enjoyment, or sense enjoyment. This is one way of life. In Sanskrit it is called pravṛtti-mārga, "How to enjoy more, more, more, more, more." This is called pravṛtti-mārga. That is going on. The whole... At the present moment the whole civilization, throughout the whole world—everyone is trying to get more money. More money means more sense enjoyment. More money means more sense enjoyment. This is called pravṛtti-mārga.
Justin Murphy: Well, maybe less enjoyment but more possessions.
Prabhupāda: No, enjoyment in this way of life more sense enjoyment, you will never be able to enjoy or happiness. That is not possible. That is the nature's way. (Aside:) You can close the door. If you simply want to enjoy, you can enjoy. But you will create more miseries. So this is one way of life, that you enjoy your senses and create more miseries. This is one way of life. And if you want to decrease your miseries, then there is another life, which is called simple life. Simple life means you produce your food and you produce your cloth so you dress yourself nicely, you eat, yourself, nicely, keep yourself fit and glorify the Lord. This is one way of life. And the other way of life, that "We don't care for the Lord.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But a pure devotee goes back to home. There is no more material body. That is the... So we are advocating that you come to this stage where you will not to have accept this material body. Then you are really happy. And if you want to enjoy the flickering, illusory māyā, then you are subjected to the māyā. You are enjoying as American. Then you enjoy as a dog. That is māyā's control. But if you don't enjoy material things then you become purified. You come to the eternal life, back to home, back to Godhead. But they are not willing to give up this material enjoyment. That is the defect. So it requires education. It requires knowledge. It requires training.
Devotee 7: Prabhupāda, when you leave this material world, will there be another spiritual master after you? Another pure soul?
Prabhupāda: Then that spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa Himself. There is no need of education. Everyone is free. Everyone is full knowledge. There is no need of spiritual master.
Devotee 8: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people who live outside the temple have Jagannātha Deities and Gaura-Nitāi Deities.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Prabhupāda: Because Indian people, being subjugated for at least one thousand years, they have lost their original culture. And, being poverty-stricken, they are simply after money, by hook and crook. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayā apahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Persons who have lost their consciousness on account of being too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So I thought that America, they have enjoyed enough of this material happiness, money and women, and they are now becoming disappointed. So they are at least on the platform of renunciation. They don't want any more like their fathers and grandfathers. Of course, they are not guided. Therefore I preferred to go there to guide them. So almost fifty percent of my devotees are, they are collected from these disappointed persons, young men. They are going astray. So they appreciate that I have saved them. Therefore they are after me, this younger generation, and they are helping me in broadcasting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So I think my attempt was successful.
Interviewer: These Oriental philosophies generally and in particular the Kṛṣṇa consciousness has found a lot of devotees in the western civilization. What is the main reason for this?
Prabhupāda: This is the test. So long we have got taste for this material enjoyment, that means we are not advanced. Therefore the Vedic civilization is, voluntarily they give up this household life and become a sannyāsī, where there is no need of sex life. Then, after sannyāsa life, he becomes paramahaṁsa. That is Vedic civilization.
Dr. Gerson: I've noticed changes just in the few months that I've been among the devotees, in myself, and they've been in that direction, and it's a very nice feeling to be able to feel, at least in small part, into the spiritual world.
Prabhupāda: The Vedic civilization, therefore, teaches the student, brahmacārī, how to remain without sex life. Those who are unable to continue that, they are allowed, "All right, be married life." And that is also for twenty-five years. A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) He also said. Yes, they are thinking it is hypnotism. "All young men, their life is for this material enjoyment, and they are giving up everything and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is this?"
Brahmānanda: In Māyāpur there is one astrologer and he...
Prabhupāda: Who is that astro...?
Brahmānanda: I don't know his name. He lives in..., across, on the other side there, where the bank is.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Bamanpukur.
Brahmānanda: No, on the other side of the...
Prabhupāda: Navadvipa?
Brahmānanda: No, on the..., where the railway is.
Prabhupāda: Oh, Svarūp Gañj.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When we distribute these books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we think that it is you who are distributing them, that they are your books, and we are simply assisting to offer them to people. It is actually you who are doing all the preaching.
Prabhupāda: It is Kṛṣṇa's book, we are all servants, engaged. (break) (laughing) Here your parents accusing me, and in India the caste brāhmaṇas accusing me. My standing... I do not know what is my standing. Your parents are accusing me, "This rascal, converting our sons to become mendicant without any material enjoyment." And there, "This rascal is giving sacred thread to the mlecchas and yavanas." (Still laughing)
Viṣṇujana: Is that why you keep traveling, Prabhupāda, so they won't catch you?
Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was accused by Prajāpati Dakṣa that "You are traveling in the dress of a sādhu, but you are the most sinful man. You have turned my sons in the renounced order of life to become beggar, without any advancement, without any enjoyment." So that accusation is always there, beginning from Nārada Muni down to us. Some parents came to demonstrate?
Prabhupāda:
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
- (samādhau) na vidhīyate
- (BG 2.44)
Therefore too much attachment for material enjoyment is disqualification for spiritual life. So the western world is trained up for being too much attached to material enjoyment. Therefore lagging behind in spiritual life. Vedic civilization is not to encourage too much for material enjoyment. Minimize. That is Indian civilization. They, if they had money they used to spend for constructing big temple, not for residential house. Maybe the king only had a big palace. Common men, they didn't care for big palace, the palatial building. Common man would be very glad to live in a cottage, and a small garden for growing vegetables, fruits, small lake, that's all. Not wasting time for big, big buildings, big, big... What is called, amenities?
Jayatīrtha: Amenities. (break)
Prabhupāda: It is good you have done this, but make this Kṛṣṇa consciousness also one of the paraphernalia. Then it is very nice. But they are not inclined. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Prabhupāda: It has already become muddy. Your business to cleanse it, and again if you make it muddy with addition of other nonsense things, then it will be delayed. When you ignite fire, you require dry wood. But if you ignite fire, at the same time pour water, then how it will burn? Don't pour water. Therefore we have so many "don'ts." "Don'ts" means that you are burning the fire. Go on. Don't add water. And that is "don't." If you ignite fire, at the same time add water, then how it will burn? Water is the counter-ingredient of fire. If you want to extinguish fire, then add water. But if you want to prolong the fire burning, then you should not add water. So this material enjoyment, illicit sex, intoxication, meat-eating, gambling, one should be free from these water-like things while you are in the fire of spiritual consciousness. Don't bring these things. You cannot go on burning the fire, at the same time adding water. Then it will be useless waste of time. Anartha upaśamam. Anartha upaśamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam. Bhakti-yogam means anartha, unwanted things, upaśamam, subsiding. This is anartha. Just like we don't eat meat. Are we dying for want of meat? But they have taken it that without eating meat they will die. This is nonsense. And they are maintaining so many slaughterhouses, committing sinful life, only for misunderstanding. They do not see that "Here are some persons.
Prabhupāda: No. Spirit soul is the same thing either in wealthy man or poor man. The spirit soul is not different. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
- vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
- brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
- śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
- paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
- (BG 5.18)
If Yogananda thinks like that—"Only rich man is able to practice yoga"—that is wrong. A poor man can also practice yoga. Because yoga means connecting, linking up with the Supreme. So as spirit soul, everyone is fit to connect himself with the Supreme. That is the statement in the Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). That is first-class self-realization, when one tries to connect himself with the Supreme. And the Supreme can be connected by anyone. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). According to Vedic philosophy, one becomes poor on account of his sinful activities. So pāpa-yoni... So although he has taken birth in a degraded family or poor family, spiritually he is pure. Simply one has to revive his spiritual consciousness. And that cannot be checked by any material condition. Ahaituky apratihatā. Spiritual self-realization cannot be checked by any material condition. So why? Rather, opulent condition is not favorable for practicing yoga. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Those who are too much attached to material enjoyment, they cannot practice yoga.
Prabhupāda: That is the specific position of Vedic culture. The habit, that tendency is there, but by Indian Vedic culture these base tendencies are checked and they are made, I mean to say, given opportunity to advance. That is brahminical culture. The brāhmaṇas voluntarily rejected all these. That is ideal, that "Here is an idea!" But here at the present moment there is no such idea! Everyone is after material enjoyment. There is no ideal that "Here is a person who doesn't care for anything. Still he is so exalted." That is wanted. That ideal is not now. Therefore I am trying to create such ideal men.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is happening actually by this movement.
Prabhupāda: We are not for material opulence. We are for ideal character. That is wanted. But they have no idea that there can be a class of men, ideal character, ideal knowledge, ideal advancement. They have no such idea. "Simply bring money and enjoy sense gratification," that's all. In that way they will never be happy, but foolish person, they have no leader to give them ideal and neither by nature they are not inclined. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Who is giving them ideal that "Come to God, and you will be satisfied"? Nobody is giving. They are simply durāśayā. They are thinking by material opulence they will be happy. This is their ignorance. Therefore so much struggle all over the world. It is not the question of India or America. It is the material way of life.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These gentlemen? No, I don’t think so. These young boys are. (break) …surf, we tell them, "Yes, we surf in the ocean of bhakti-rasa."
Prabhupāda: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu. (break) … karma bandha phasa: one after another. Asate vilāsa: material enjoyment means implicated in unnecessary activities. If people are satisfied, plain living, then these things are not necessary: go into the ocean, find out oil, then bring it in the port, then distribute it, so many, one after another. That, this kind of civilization, they think it is advanced. And to live very plainly, minimizing this unnecessary activity, they think it is not civilization.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Primitive.
Prabhupāda: Primitive, yes. But primitive meat-eating is continued. That is not to be stopped, primitive drinking and meat-eating.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Would you like a tissue, Srila Prabhupada? A tissue?
Prabhupāda: No. (break)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: … it is misdirected and simply based on sense gratification, has no purpose. So people may question us that we are putting forward a civilization which India had practiced for thousands of years.
Prabhupāda: Why you speak of India?
Prabhupāda: This is the only means of material enjoyment.
Cyavana: This means they're constantly in fear.
Prahupada: Must be.
Cyavana: They must be fearing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Bodily conception life means misery and fear.
Brahmānanda: In Mauritius one of our life members, he's a contractor. He's constructing a hotel that has four floors. On one floor is the gambling casino, one floor is the restaurant, one floor is the cabaret, and one floor is the, also rooms for the women to stay.
Prabhupāda: Naturally people are not very much interested in our movement.
Brahmānanda: Because these four things that they are supporting, we are against.
Indian: I asked that pilot who was staying in our Bombay, Juhu land.
Prahupada: Ha ha. Mr. Sharma?
Harikeśa: Why do people use spiritual things for material enjoyment when material enjoyment is available by itself?
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. It looks like material; it is not material. Completely spiritual. Your body is moving on spiritual strength, but you have no eyes to see spiritual strength. You see the body. And when the spirit goes away, you cry, "My father has gone away." "Why my father has"...? "Your father is there. The body is there." So you have no spiritual vision: therefore you are thinking that gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa is also material. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha (BG 9.11). This is mūḍha's business. They are thinking spiritual activities of Kṛṣṇa as material. That is avajānanti. Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. Paraṁ bhāvam, the spiritual activities, they do not know. Therefore it is forbidden for materialistic person to hear about gopīs' pastimes with Kṛṣṇa. It is forbidden, that's all, because the rascal will take it as material. (break) ... Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and other Gosvāmīs, they left everything in the material world. Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tuccha... They gave up everything.
Prabhupāda: Police is not first. First you become a thief; then police is there, not that police comes and arrest you unnecessary. No. As soon as you become criminal, then police comes and arrest you. māyā comes next. If you give up your natural attraction for Kṛṣṇa, if you are attracted by this material enjoyment, then māyā is there. Again if you try to...
Dr. Patel: But material, all material, is made up of māyā.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Nothing is made by māyā. māyā is made by God.
Dr. Patel: And material is, nothing but the transformation of māyā, is it not?
Prabhupāda: No. No. māyā means something false. Nobody makes anything. Everything is made by... Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa is the creator of everything. māyā is also created by Kṛṣṇa. So just like government creates police department. But police department is made for that person who violates the laws of God. The police department is creation of government. Similarly, māyā's business is to capture, arrest the criminal who has gone against God, capture him. Mūḍha janmani janmani (BG 16.20). Mam aprapyaiva. This is the arrangement. Nobody is independent. Everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: That is why devata-loka is not a place from where you can have a release. It is from human life that you can have moksa. Devatas cannot get it.
Prabhupāda: No, no, human... Devatas cannot because they have got enough of material enjoyment.
Dr. Patel: The Americans.
Prabhupāda: Just like America... (laughs) Americans have not even one per cent. They are many thousands times opulent, the demigods. So it is very difficult. Just like here for a very rich man to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very difficult. That is a disquali...
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasām
- vyavasāyātmikā-buddhiḥ
- samādhau na dhigacchati
- (BG 2.44)
(Hindi) Voluntarily sannyāsa. All big, big kings in India, voluntarily: "Eh! Give it! Kick it out!" Mahārāja Bhārata, at the age of twenty-four years, he left everything, young wife, children, kingdom, whole world—gave it up. This is Indian culture, vairāgya.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. You should only desire to serve Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...clear or not?
Viśāla: Very clear. Thank you very much.
Harikeśa: What if a person doesn't desire material enjoyment, but still, there is so much dirt?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Who is that person who has no material desires?
Harikeśa: A person really wants to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, but somehow or another, so much dirts gets in the way.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dirt means it is not yet zero. I said that all material desires should be made zero. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11).
Harikeśa: As soon as the desires completely change, then everything else is purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As Arjuna said, kariṣye vacana tava, naṣṭo mohaḥ: "Now my illusion is over. I agree to act as you say." This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Naṣṭo moha smṛtir labdh tvat prasādān madhusūdana. (break) The moha is there. Moha means these desires are illusion, like dreaming. In dream we see so many things. They are all false. In dreaming I am seeing that somebody is coming to kill me but there is nobody, but still, I am dreaming. This is called moha. So when one is free from moha, then he's Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Cānakya Paṇḍita also advised: kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama(?). This is..., he was a politician, and still he said, kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama, and smara nityam anityada kuru punyam avoratram. This is his advise, that give up this bad association of atheist class of man. Sadhu means devotee. Durajana means nondevotee. So kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says like that. When He was asked by one gṛhastha bhakta, "What is the duty of a Vaiṣṇava?" Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately said, asat-saṅga tyāgī ei vaiṣṇava acāra. A Vaiṣṇava means he must give up the association of nondevotees. Then the question will be, "Who is nondevotee?" Asat-strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇa bhakta... One who is too much attached to material enjoyment. Strī-saṅgī is the basic point, and one who is not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he is asat-saṅga. Asat-saṅga-tyāgī..., there are two lines. And the moralist, Cānakya Paṇḍita, he also said, kalau durajana samsagyam bhaja sādhu samārgama. You give up something, you must take something. Otherwise you will not be able to stay.
Dr. Patel: Nothing can act independently.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no suffering. Their material existence is being reduced on account of serving Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man: One lady is there in Bombay, whole family, old lady, young children die.
Prabhupāda: Yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi hariṣye tad-dhanaṁ śanaiḥ (SB 10.88.8). This is special favour of Kṛṣṇa because they, by this pious activity, they wanted this material enjoyment, which you are complaining, that they are reducing material enjoyment. But that is Kṛṣṇa's favor. He doesn't want reduction of material enjoyment; at the same time, they want to worship Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is seeing that these fools, they want Me, and at the same time material enjoyment. So "Finish their material enjoyment; they will simply think of Me."
- bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānāṁ
- tayāpahṛta-cetasāṁ
- vyavasāyātmikā buddhiḥ
- samādhau na vidhīyate
- (BG 2.44)
So long one will be too much absorbed in this material enjoyment, he cannot be perfectly devotee. Therefore sometimes Kṛṣṇa, when He sees "Someone is serious to get Me," and at the same time he wants material enjoyment, so indirectly or directly He finishes that material enjoyment. That is a special favor.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No. May be some fragmental knowledge, but if one wants full knowledge in life, then he must read Bhāgavatam. Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary ABCD, and then let him read Bhāgavatam. They have been taught like that. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. They are passing as great leader for giving men wrong direction and spoil the life. He cannot save himself and he can spoil himself very nicely.
Hariśauri: People's minds are so flickering. There's so much disturbance.
Prabhupāda: The mind is the first creation for material enjoyment. From the mind, senses are created, five senses for knowledge-gathering and five senses for working, and five airs within the body. In this way the mind and fifteen. This is called ṣoḍāśa upacāra, sixteen. And then the ingredients, pañca-mahā-bhūta. Then intelligence, ahaṅkāra, false ego. These twenty-four, combination. And ātmā, jīva, and then Kṛṣṇa-twenty-six. The twenty-six combination is this body, mind, self, soul, Supersoul, everything. So I am ready.
Hariśauri: I think it's just a little early yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: ...no more desire of material enjoyment he is fit for sannyāsa. Anyone who sees: "Oh, this car is very nice. This beautiful wife is very... A very beautiful woman is very nice," he should not think of taking sannyāsa. Viṣa-bhakṣaṇād apy asādhu: "Such desires is most abominable, more than taking poison." To commit suicide by taking poison is most abominable thing, because he's going to be a ghost. He'll be punished to become a ghost, those who commit suicide. Or, if one is suddenly killed and he has so many desires, he becomes ghost. Therefore viṣa-bhakṣaṇa, taking poison, and die untimely, is most abominable, or commit suicide. By the material law also, to attempt to commit suicide is criminal. You know that?
Devotees: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is criminal. (Bengali) If you take s annyāsa... Just like there are so many sannyāsīs, for filling up the belly. Wherever you go they give some alms. But in..., outside India, who cares for the sannyāsī? Then why you should be eager to take sannyāsa and cheat yourself? You cannot cheat others, but you can cheat yourself.
Hṛdayānanda: Outside India a sannyāsī will starve.
Prabhupāda: That is the taste of Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (SB 11.2.42). As soon as you advance in devotion, you become detestful to the all material enjoyment.
Reporter (2): Swamiji, may I inquire from which class of society people generally come to you in the States.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: From which class of society in the United Sates do most of your disciples come?
Prabhupāda: You can ask them. I do not know.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All classes. Many educated people as well as people from all different classes, all racial backgrounds.
Prabhupāda: No, no, in America who is uneducated?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, all coming from very nice families, the majority, education. Many, many of them coming from very wealthy families.
Mahendra: Sometimes, although a devotee understands that he must take birth again if he does not, if he is not strict, he thinks, "Oh, it is so difficult to be strict. Maybe I'll just take it easy and remain engaged in devotional service, then I'll take another birth as a devotee and maybe next time I'll finish up my business."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. He gets good opportunity of material enjoyment, and then take birth in good family, aristocratic or brāhmaṇa. Then where he ended in last life, he begins again. There is a verse: paurva-dehikam. Paurva-dehikam means previous birth.
Mahendra: It seems, though, that in that respect, he's gambling.
Prabhupāda: Gambling?
Mahendra: Yes, he's gambling, that he's thinking that "Oh, next life I will come back in a better condition," but his next might be different.
Prabhupāda: Why should he desire like that? That means he has not understood what is meant by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. One who understands wants to get out in this lifetime.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Prabhupāda: "These four principles of necessities of the body are available anywhere." Either you are born as a human being or a cat or a dog or a bird or beast or demigod, these are available. So we should not bother about these things. The arrangement is already there. By the grace of God, things are already there. So Nārada Muni said, "Don't bother about these things." Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ (SB 1.5.18). So we are wandering within this universe in different forms of life, in different planets, upary adhaḥ, upari, adhaḥ, upper planetary systems, down planetary system. We are having these facilities in different standard. The demigods, they have got their different standard of life, thousands and thousands of times better than ours. We have got better standard of life. Just like the Americans, they have got better standard of life than the Indians. So this higher standard, lower standard, but whatever standard may be, the thing, the taste of material enjoyment, is there. Sex intercourse in the human form of life and the sex intercourse of the dog on the street, the taste is the same.
Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment.
Thus he is not an ordinary gṛhastha who has learned only how to satisfy his senses. A trained gṛhastha can gradually give up household life and go to the forest to become increasingly enlightened in spiritual life and at last take sannyāsa. Prahlāda Mahārāja explained to his father that to be freed from all material anxieties one should go to the forest. Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpam. One should give up his household, which is a place for going further and further down into the darkest regions of material existence. The first advice, therefore, is that one must give up household life (gṛham andha-kūpam). However, if one prefers to remain in the dark well of household life because of uncontrolled senses, he becomes increasingly entangled by ropes of affection for his wife, children, servants, house, money and so on. Such a person cannot attain liberation from material bondage. Therefore children should be taught from the very beginning of life to be first-class brahmacārīs. Then it will be possible for them to give up household life in the future. To return home, back to Godhead, one must be completely free from material attachment. Therefore, bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā, the art that can help one develop a distaste for material enjoyment.
Prabhupāda: 'By rendering devotional service unto the Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, one immediately acquires causeless knowledge and detachment from the world.' If one engages in devotional service from the beginning of life, he easily attains vairāgya-vidyā, or asakti, detachment, and becomes jitendriya, the controller of his senses. One who perfectly engages in devotional service is therefore called gosvāmī or svāmī, master of the senses. Unless one is master of the senses, he should not accept the renounced order of life, sannyāsa. A strong inclination for sense enjoyment is the cause of the material body. Without full knowledge one cannot be unattached to material enjoyment, but as long as one is not in that position one is not fit to return home, back to Godhead."
Prabhupāda: Don't talk." I knew this. Still I attempted. But these boys kindly accepted. I never made any compromise. I said, "These are the first conditions to become Kṛṣṇa conscious: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. Are you agreed?" They say yes, then come. If I would have made compromise, "Yes, whatever you like you can do." No, I never did. Ask them. I never did. Some of them left, that "It is too difficult. The primary necessities of life are denied here." (chuckles) But these boys, they have accepted, and therefore it is improving. They are young men, they have got all the desires for material enjoyment, but they have sacrificed everything. That is tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyed sattvam (SB 5.5.1). If you want to purify your existence, then you must practice tapasya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena (SB 6.1.13). That is tapasya. First beginning is brahmacarya. Therefore according to Vedic system, brahmacārī first—to teach how to become brahmacārī. Brahmacārī guru-gṛhe vasan dānto guror hitam. The children should be trained up in such a way that they will be able to control the senses and act only for the benefit of guru. That is brahmacārī.
Prabhupāda: It is not a subject matter to be understood by persons who are too much attached to material activities. Only the very expert, who have almost retired from materialistic activities, by culture of spiritual knowledge can be admitted to the study of this great science. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly stated that out of many hundreds and thousands of men, only one person deserves to enter into transcendental realization, and out of many thousands of such transcendentally realized persons, only a few can understand the theological science specifically dealing with God as a person. Śrī Vyāsadeva is therefore advised by Nārada to describe the science of God directly by relating His transcendental activities. Vyāsadeva is himself a personality expert in this science, and he is unattached to material enjoyment; therefore he is the right person to describe it.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Similarly you will find the so-called sannyāsīs, not bhaktas, they undergo severe austerities, penances, but after some time they come to the worldly atmosphere. Because they could not get any place, therefore they come down. Just like the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs they say that this duniyā, (world) jagat mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, you have left it, then why you come again to give some philanthropic service? If it is mithyā, then why you come again after so much? Is it not nonsense? If jagat is mithyā why you are coming again to this mithyā? That means you could not get place in the satya. Therefore you come down again. That is stated in the śāstra. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32). Although with severe austerities and penances (he) might go to the paraṁ pada, patanty adhaḥ, anādṛta-yuṣmad, because he could not get shelter at the lotus feet of the Supreme Lord, he falls down. He must fall down to the material activities. Patanty adhaḥ. That is adho patha. As soon as a person, after undergoing severe austerities, becomes very highly elevated in the sannyāsa stage, but if he cannot get shelter at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, then surely he shall fall down for these material activities, material enjoyment. That is the sign that he's fallen down.
Prabhupāda: Tapasya means to rescue the soul from this material condition, yena sattvaṁ śuddhyet, to purify your existence. What is the impurification? Impurification is that the soul is subjected to repetition of birth and... That is impurification. That he does not know. So he is missing the goal of life, and he's thinking this temporary so-called happiness for twenty years, forty years, fifty years, or, utmost, hundred years, that is his ultimate. That is a misleading. He does not know the aim of life. He thinks this material enjoyment to make this body stout and strong and enjoy senses like the hogs. Therefore it has been (called) na arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye. The sewer hog, he is thinking, "I am eating stool. I am getting fatty. That is my life. And I am enjoying sex without any discrimination." No discrimination of sex, either mother or sister and daughter—it doesn't matter. This is hog's life. He does not know. As soon as he becomes fatty he'll be captured, and the bhangis will, what is called? Toast, make him a toast. In our country they do. In outside of the village they hang the pig and with fire, roast it. And he, it cries, "Kyaa, kyaa, kyaa." And it is roasted, and they enjoy. But that he does not know. He is getting very strong but he does not know that he's going to be roasted. Therefore he is misguided. He does not know nature's law.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Senses. So instead of swami, he is servant of his senses, and he is preaching as swami. These swamis go to the foreign countries. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.
Yogi Amrit Desai: They have vairāgya to his senses, of the senses.
Prabhupāda: A sannyāsī... A sannyāsī means he has ceased all material desire. There is no material desire. And the concentrated material enjoyment is sex. So if one could not control his sex life, then how he is swami? He's cheater.
Yogi Amrit Desai: That is the most potent of all the external attachments.
Prabhupāda: That is the essence. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgī-saṅgam (SB 5.5.2). Tamo-dvāram. Viśatāṁ tamisram adānta-gobhiḥ. Adānta-gobhiḥ, by uncontrolled senses, one is going down and down to the darkest region of material existence. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. So those who are sensuous... One should not be sensuous. That is also... And if he mixes with sensuous persons, then he also going to the hell.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Right. One who attaches himself to that.
Prabhupāda: He's also going to the hell. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). So without ācāryopāsanam, without being under the control of ācārya, these are all bogus.
Prabhupāda: Buddhi-yoga continues, continues. If it is unfinished... Unless that buddhi-yoga is complete, one is not allowed. One is not allowed. He remains within this material world, very opulent position. Position like Indra, Candra, Brahmā. They are devotees, but not pure devotees. They have got some tinge of material enjoyment. Therefore they are given big, big post. One has become Brahmā, one has become the king of heaven; one has become the king of moon planet, sun planet. They are not ordinary living being.
Dr. Patel: Ananya... They are not ananya-bhaktas.
Prabhupāda: No. They had some tinge that "By bhakti I shall enjoy this material world." And bhakti means anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). I have not at all, niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. They don't care for this Brahmā's post or Indra's post or... They don't care.
Dr. Patel: Bhakti-cāriṇī.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. Kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. For a devotee, this kaivalya-sukha of the Māyāvādī, impersonalist...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) ...asat-saṅga-tyāga ei vaiṣṇava-ācāra (CC Madhya 22.87). You must give up the association of bad elements. And who is bad element? Asat eka strī-saṅgī kṛṣṇa abhakta āra: One bad element is one who is too much attached to women, and the other bad element is who is not devotee of God. Give up their association. Then you will be steady. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ (SB 5.5.2). If you actually associate with mahātmās, so that will open your door of liberation. Mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimuktes tamo-dvāraṁ yoṣitāṁ saṅgi-saṅgam. Those who are too much materially attached, if you associate with them, then you are going in the darkest region, not liberation, but in the darkness. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram (SB 7.5.30). Those who are too much to material enjoyment—they cannot control their senses—they're going in the darkest region. Tamo-dvāram. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is Vedic instruction, "Don't go to the darkness; go to the light." Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Satsvarūpa: There is prasādam being served now.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (end)
Prabhupāda: I knew all these things. I would have gone long ago, but you are innocent. Your business is this. You came. So I wanted to try to do some good to you. So better you have come to your senses. Now you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. I am leaving." So, dhīra. This material world means so long we'll have a pinch of material desire, we'll have to take birth. Kṛṣṇa will give us full facility to satisfy our senses in various ways. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). Full facilities. "Enjoy. But if you want my advice, then sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ... (BG 18.66)." That is Kṛṣṇa's advice. And that, Kṛṣṇa is ready to give all facilities for material enjoyment in different grades of life. Beginning from Brahmā down to the ant, everyone is engaged in this sense gratification. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Either you become a Brahmā or you become Indra or Candra or human being or cat or dog or ant or insect—the same business: āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam, punaḥ punaḥ, again and again, the same business. So those who are engaged in the same business, so that is, Ṛṣabhadeva said, "It is not good. What is the use of same business again and again. You are not disgusted?"
Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!" If this sense is not awakened, there is no bhakti.
Prabhupāda: ...material body. So as soon as there is material attraction, the village organization will not stand because the other material attraction is industry. So because he's materially attracted, he'll say that "If I do industry, I get hundred rupees. Why shall I plow for five rupees?" That simply they do not know. Gandhi's plan failed there. If materially they are after material enjoyment, so if he gets hundred rupees, he thinks that "I will enjoy more. Why shall I be sticking to the service?" Then the village program will fail. They will go for the hundred rupees. That civilization they do not know. After all, they are all rascals. They won't take lesson from us or from the Vedic culture. Therefore it is failure.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they won't take.
Prabhupāda: No, that is... Therefore it will be a failure. We are... Just like in Hyderabad we are trying to make an ideal farm. If we can do, that will be success.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There was recently an article. Previously there was oil shortage in the world. Now they are predicting that there is going to be a water shortage.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is prejudiced. But who is rightly prejudiced who is wrongly prejudiced. That is everywhere. Just like materialistic person will think, "Brainwash. These rascals, they have given all up material enjoyment, and after some phantasmagoria they sacrifice everything. Brainwash." And we are thinking, "Oh, these rascals, got this human form of body, he did not understand what is spiritual life." Both of them—he is rascal and he is rascal. This is going on. Yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. Is it not? They say, "Brainwash. Unnecessarily they've sacrificed everything." And we say that he got the human form and unnecessarily he is working like cats and...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Both are saying the same thing. Obvious.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is correct? Who will decide? I accuse you, you accuse me. But who is correct? Who will decide? That is śāstra. There is no question of argument. That is called pratiṣṭhā. You will never come to any conclusion by arguing. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Somebody must decide. Judge. And that is śāstra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...
| Page Title: | Material enjoyment (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Mayapur, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 05 of Oct, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=56, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 56 |