They are seeing Kṛṣṇa or his worshipable God... Kṛṣṇa has many forms. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Kṛṣṇa has His form as Lord Rāmacandra, as Varāha, as Kūrma, as Nṛsiṁha. Ananta-koṭi. Innumerable forms He has got. All of them are Kṛṣṇa. So a devotee, on account of his eyes being smeared with the ointment of love of God, he sees Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours within his heart. That is the vision of the devotee. Atheist class will say, "Where is God?" Because he has no eyes to see the God. But a theist class or a devotee, he sees God, or Kṛṣṇa, twenty-four hours. He does not see anything else. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, sthāvara jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti (CC Madhya 8.274). A devotee, mahā-bhāgavata, highly advanced devotee, he sees trees, but he does not see the tree. He sees Kṛṣṇa. How? Has he gone mad? No. Actually he sees. But what is this tree? The tree, outwardly, is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Your body, my body, the trees's body, the dog's body, the cat's body. What are these bodies? The bodies are made of the external, material energy. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). The material elements, they are simply Kṛṣṇa's external energy. So as soon as a devotee sees anything material, he sees immediately the energy of Kṛṣṇa, and along with the energy of Kṛṣṇa, he sees immediately Kṛṣṇa. Reactory. He actually. With reference to the context.
Material elements (Lectures, Other)
Expressions researched:
"five basic elements"
|"five element"
|"five elements"
|"five great elements"
|"five gross elements"
|"five material elements"
|"five primary elements"
|"five principal elements"
|"material element"
|"material elements"
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
No. These bodies are five elements. Earth, air, water, air, fire, ether. The subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. So in some planet the earthly portion may be major, the fire portion may be major. In some planet the ether portion may be major. But they're all material bodies. They're material bodies. They're not spiritual bodies. Spiritual body is within. Within the universe, anywhere you go, you get the material body, and according to the body, the duration of life is different. Just like a germ's body. That is also material body. And a human body. That is also material body. But a germ takes birth and dies within second or minute. We live for a hundred years. Both of them material bodies. Similarly Brahmā has got also material body. Those who are living in the moon planet, they are also material body. In the sun planet, they have got material... But different varieties. They live ten thousand years of their... Daiva. Ten thousand. Daiva means our one six months equal to one day there. Such ten thousand years, they live. That is calculated in the Bhagavad-gītā: sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ (BG 8.17). So that is twelve hours. Sahasra-yuga. These four yugas, Satya, Tretā, Dvāpara yugas, they're forty-three lakhs of years. And multiply it by one thousand. That becomes Brahmā's twelve hours. So according to the different planet, according to the orbit, the time duration, the, everything is different. A ant's hundred years and my hundred years not the same. It is relative. Atomic. According to the body, according to the size... The, the world, the scientific world also accepts relative world.
Yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjate. Just like we are using this microphone. This is material, scientific advancement. Sometimes they criticize that "You are not materialistic. Why you are using the modern appliances? Why you are flying on the aeroplane?" So practically, our vision is that everything is Kṛṣṇa's and everything must be utilized for Kṛṣṇa's service. That is, that is our philosophy. Actually, it is so. This microphone is manufactured by Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, prakṛti bhinnā me aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). So this metal portion, or the rubber portion, or any portion of this microphone is made of the five elements, earth, water, fire, air. So Kṛṣṇa says, "They are My separated energy." So although separated energy, we are dovetailing with the service of Kṛṣṇa. That, we do not see that this matter is separate from Kṛṣṇa. Actually it is not so. When we see the matter is separate from Kṛṣṇa, that is materialism. When we see the matter is energy of Kṛṣṇa, that is not materialism. That is spiritualism. So it is our intellect how we can utilize everything with Kṛṣṇa.
Actually in pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is nothing material. I have several times explained. Material activities means activities without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is material activity. Just like we are speaking through this microphone. We do not reject it as material. We take it as spiritual. Because it is being used in spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Anāsaktasya viṣayān yathārham upayuñjataḥ. Yathā arhati, as it deserves. Because this microphone is made of material elements, earth, water, fire, air... But this, if we remember that these material energies, earth, water, air, fire, sky, even mind, intelligence, ego... Prakṛti me, prakṛti me bhinnā aṣṭadhā. They're also energies of Kṛṣṇa. They're not separate from Kṛṣṇa. Therefore if Kṛṣṇa is spirit, then these so-called material elements, they are also spirit. But it is used as material because we do not remember the relationship of these material elements with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore the conclusion is when we are forgetful of Kṛṣṇa, then it is material. Otherwise, there is nothing as material. Everything is spiritual. Because brāhmaṇaḥ śakti.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
That is sambandha. Sambandha, abhidheya, prayojana. At the present moment, in our conditioned stage of life, we have forgotten our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is our conditional life. Just like a son has forgotten his father, rich father, opulent father, and loitering in the street, that is our condition. We are all sons of Kṛṣṇa, part and parcel, and Kṛṣṇa is full of six opulences. Richness, strength, influence, beauty, knowledge, renunciation—Kṛṣṇa is complete. If my father is complete, and I am his son, beloved son, why shall I loiter in the street? This is māyā. We are thinking that we are made of something of these material elements: "I am this body. The body is made of this material element," bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). So this is our manda-mati. Manda means bad. This conception, bodily conception of life, is the cause of our conditional life, subjected to the stringent laws of material nature. This is our position.
We cannot conceive at the present moment how one thing can be the same, at the same time different; therefore it is called acintya, inconceivable. But bhedābheda... Just like we are—everything—you study. It is acintya-bhedābheda, one and different. Take for example your own body and you, soul. The soul is different from the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). The dehi, the soul, is within the body. The body is not the soul. So this is different. Soul is different from the body. We have studied. But in another sense, soul is not different from the body, another sense. How? Because the body, the material body, is also coming from the same source, and the spiritual soul is coming from the same source, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, apareyam. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva (BG 7.4). "These material elements, they are My bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā, eight kinds of separated energy." Even though it is separated energy, it is the energy of the Supreme Lord. We have discussed many times. Just like the fire and the heat and light. Light is separated from the fire, heat is separated from the fire, but at the same time, heat and light is not different from the fire. This is to be understood. This is called simultaneously one and different, inconceivable.
"One who is learned, paṇḍita, he has no business to consider about this body." Now see, the whole world is concerned with this body, but this is condemned. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Anyone who is accepting this body, which is nothing but combination of tri-dhātu... Or you take the material elements: earth, water, air, fire. Or more explicitly: the skin, blood, bone, urine, stool. You'll find these things. But do you think such intelligent person is created, manufactured, by bone and blood and skin and urine and stool? It's common sense. It is something else, spirit soul. That they do not understand.
So we find mahad-yoni, mahā-tattva, the material elements, is the mother. Everything is coming out of the womb of the mother. Whatever we see in this creation, the plants, the trees and living entities, and we are speaking especially of the living entities, and there are 8,400,000 different forms, they are coming from earth. That we can see. It doesn't require great intelligence. Any boy can understand that it is coming out of these five elements—means earth, water... The grass is coming out of earth, the fish is coming out of the water. So we have got experiences in two elements. But we have got experience also that living entities coming out of air. So earth, water, air... There are living entities in fire also, but because our knowledge is limited, we do not see. We cannot conceive that in the fire also there can be living entities. And why not? There are five elements, matter. So if earth is producing life, if water is producing life, if air is producing life, why not fire? What is the fault there? Everything is producing life. So the mother produces children. So many children are coming out of the... Tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma. Yoni, yoni means mother. So the children are there, the mother is there, and where is the father? A commonsense.
So by philosophical speculation this process is... Now, what is that philosophical speculation? What is this material world? They are divided into twenty-four parts, this material world. What are those? Now, the first thing is that what we see, the five material elements, the earth, water, fire, air, ether. These are material elements. These are studied. Then finer than the ether is the mind, then finer than the mind is the intelligence, and finer than the intelligence... Mana, buddhi, ahaṅkāra. Ahaṅkāra means ego, ego, false conception, that "I am this matter." These are eight elements. Then your senses, five working senses and five knowledge-acquiring senses... Just like our eyes, ears, tongue, hand—all these five senses, they are acquiring knowledge. And five senses just like hands, legs, and evacuating hole, genital—these are five senses by which we are enjoying or suffering. And the five objects of senses. What is that? Form, rūpa; rasa, taste; smell; and... Rūpa; rasa; gandha; śabda, sound; sparśā, touch. So these five. So five plus eleven, and mind. Five plus eleven equal to sixteen, and these eight elements, twenty-four. The whole material world is analyzed into twenty-four parts. That analytical study is called sāṅkhya. Samyak khyāpayati iti sāṅkhya: complete, full analysis of this, whatever we are experiencing. And above that, that spirit soul, above that. Because these twenty-four elements, they are combination. Whatever we are thinking, whatever we seeing in this material world, they are combination of these twenty-four elements. And above that, there is the soul. And above that, there is God.
So Sankhyites, those who are simply analyzing this material world, they cannot find out what is soul. Sāṅkhya means the material scientist, one may, you may call. Just like material scientists, they are simply studying these material objects. They have no information above that. They have no information. Now I am talking with you, so they cannot explain what is that thing which is talking. They cannot analyze this body. Medical doctor, after dissecting this body, they cannot find out what is the spiritual force, what is working. That they cannot. So because they cannot find out even the particles of the Supreme Lord—we living entities, we are all particles of the Supreme Lord—so if they cannot find out the particle, what there is chance to find out God? So they cannot also find out God. Neither this yogi, they cannot find out the Supreme Lord, neither these materialists who are simply analyzing these material elements, they cannot. Na sāṅkhya.
This material energy is divided into two: pradhāna and upādāna. Pradhāna and upādāna. The whole, total material energy is called pradhāna, and the material elements are called ingredients, upādāna.
- sei puruṣa māyā-pāne kare avadhāna
- prakṛti kṣobhita kari' kare vīryera ādhāna
Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā you have read that mahad-yonir mahad-brahma tāsām... It is stated there that ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "I implement the seeds of living entities into the matter." So in the matter the living, the seeds of living entities, as we are, they are impregnated. As the father impregnates the mother, similarly, this material nature is just like mother, and therefore material nature is worshiped as mother, goddess, mother goddess, Durgā, Kālī. Yes. And this worship of the country, nationalism, that is also the same matter—worship. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). So, so long we are not enlightened, we are worshiper of this matter, energy. And when we are advanced in knowledge, then we are worshiper of the Supreme. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means advanced stage of knowledge. It is not in the material platform. Therefore anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness appropriately and thoroughly, he is liberated from material consciousness.
So from this version of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that the living entities as seeds they are coming from the spiritual world... They are not product of the matter. Therefore it is not possible to produce living entity with material chemicals and material elements. It is not possible. As some of the modern scientists, they claim that "We shall now give life," or they advertise in that way, so from this verse we can understand that it is not possible, because these living entities, they are just like seeds, and they are coming from the spiritual world, from the body of the Supreme. Those spiritual living entities are desirous of enjoying sense gratification, they are allowed to this material world, and others, they are in the spiritual world.
Unconsciousness is not the qualification of God. Voidness cannot be accepted as the qualification of the Supreme. The Supreme must be conscious. Tene brahma hṛdā ya ādi-kavaye, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo yatra trisargo 'mṛṣā (SB 1.1.1). And yatra, in Him rests the material manifestation. And what is this material manifestation? Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam. It is simply exchange of fire, water and earth. Of course, there other things are eight elements, fire, water, earth, ether and air. This is the gross material elements. And the finer material elements are the mind, intelligence and false ego. We have discussed this in the Bhagavad-gītā. So this material manifestation is nothing but a manipulation, or a preparation of these things. Just... Just like we present sometime varieties of foodstuff. Kacaurīs, (indistinct ), purī, and rasagullā, and so many things. But what are these? Varieties of grains and milk, fat, that's all. Similarly, all these varieties, manifestations in the material world, they are... Yatra, yatra, tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ yathā vinimayo, oh, and yatra trisargo 'mṛṣā.
Amṛṣā. It is false. But it appears to be just like real. Foolish living entities, under the spell of illusory energy, they have accepted this false exchange of material elements as reality. This is called materialism. One who has accepted this false representation of reality, they are called materialists. And one who knows the real position of this material world, he's spiritualist. That is the difference between materialism and spiritualism.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
Prabhupāda: Yes, any one, if you can... Whatever you have realized, you can say without seeing the book. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Yes...
Karandhara: Everything animate or inanimate in this world is controlled and owned by Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is described that there are two types of energies of Kṛṣṇa, parā prakṛti and aparā prakṛti, the superior energy and the inferior energy. The inferior energy is made up of the gross elements, earth, air, fire, water, and the subtle energy or the subtle material elements are the sky..., excuse me, mind, intelligence and false ego. These make up the parā prakṛti, or the inferior energy of the Lord. But the living entities, they are the superior energy of the Lord. They are aparā prakṛti; henceforth, due to their illusion, their misconception, they are trying to lord it over the parā prakṛti, uh, uh, aparā prakṛti, the inferior energy of the Lord. And they have become entangled. They have become covered by the gross elements. So when one is realizing who the source of the energies, of all these energies are..., who are the proprietor, who are the controller of the energy, then by the Lord's mercy, the Lord being the controller of all these energies, that entity can become free from the covering, from the influence of the material energy, and can resume his natural constitutional position as superior energy and function on that platform in realization of both energies and his relationship with the supreme energy of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. One should not..., one should only accept that which is set aside for him that which is needed. The lusty desire to gain more, for acquiring more—this lust, this perversion, this misunderstanding is exactly what enamors the living entity, parā prakṛti, in the inferior energy, aparā prakṛti. So when one can come to this understanding, that everything is controlled, everything is owned by the Supreme Lord, and that he has no proprietorship, then he can give up this false (conception) of "mine" and "I" and realize that the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa, He is the controller, He is the owner, and can once again regain his natural, blissful state, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).
Prabhupāda: Why a living entity is superior energy? Can anyone explain? Why living...? Yes? Stand up.
Devotee: Well, it is stated that the living entity, or the jīva soul, belongs to the jīva-tattva, that categoristic..., falls into that categoristic of the Lord's energy. He is... Spark...
Prabhupāda: No, the question is why the living entity is called superior energy? That is the question. The material, matter—earth, water, air, fire, sky—the inferior energy; and why the living is called superior energy? Who can explain? Yes? Stand up.
So two energies are working in this material world: the spiritual energy and the material energy. The material energy means these eight kinds of material elements. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ: (BG 7.4) earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, and ego. These are all material. And similarly, finer, finer, finer, finer, and grosser, grosser, grosser. Just like water is finer than the earth, then fire is finer than the water, then air is finer than the fire, then sky, or ether, is finer than the air. Similarly, intelligence is finer than the ether, or mind is finer than the ether. The mind... You know, I have given several times example: the speed of mind. Many thousands of miles within a second you can go. So the finer it becomes, it is powerful. Similarly, ultimately, when you come to the spiritual part, finer, from which everything is emanating, oh, that is very powerful. That spiritual energy. That is given in the Bhagavad-gītā. What is that spiritual energy? That spiritual energy is this living entity. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā (BG 7.5). Kṛṣṇa says, "These are material energies. Beyond this there is another, spiritual energy." Apareyam. Aparā means inferior. Apareyam. "All these described material elements, they are inferior energy. And beyond this there is superior energy, My dear Arjuna." What is that? Jīva-bhūta mahā-bāho: "These living entities." They are also energy. We living entities, we are also energy, but superior energy. How superior? Because yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). The superior energy is controlling the inferior energy. Matter has no power.
Festival Lectures
So these are our foolishness. Meditation means to think over all this subject matter very intelligently, not like a rascal, that "If I am person, why God should be imperson? If I am eternal, why God should be dead?" This is meditation, to study diligently. If I have got an instinct to love others, so why God shall not, God will not have this instinct to love others? If I have got attraction for the opposite sex, why God should not have? Why He should not be attracted by Rādhārāṇī? Very simple truth. And why Rādhārāṇī should not be attracted by Kṛṣṇa? But the difference is: here everything is false. False means the attraction is not real attraction. But there the attraction is real. Here I am attracted with a boy, with a girl—after six months, finished. Because there are so many defects, therefore the attraction does not exist. It is all defective. This body is false, false in the sense it is an imitation. Just like you see one idol in the dress shop, very nice girl standing, but it is a false; similarly, this body made of material elements is not our real body. False. Similarly, the girl's body is false. Therefore, because false, the so-called love and attraction is also false. Therefore our so-called love breaks. There is no love here. It cannot be. There cannot be any love. This is... That tendency is there, but due to this material contamination, lust is going on in the name of love. Actually it is lust.
So we have to study Vedas through authoritative sources. We have to follow the rules and regulations. Then, in this life, we shall be able to understand what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you understand Kṛṣṇa, you are liberated immediately. There is no doubt about it. Because without being liberated, nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can understand Kṛṣṇa. Tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā viśate tad anantaram. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that first of all you have to become liberated. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. That is called brahma-bhūtaḥ, identification with Brahman. That is liberation. Now we are identifying with this matter, material elements. Everyone is illusioned. "I am this body; therefore I am American." "Therefore I am Indian." "Therefore I am this." "Therefore I am that." Everyone. This is called jīva-bhūtaḥ, ignorance. And as soon as one becomes brahma-bhūtaḥ, he understands. Prasannātmā. "Oh, I am neither American nor this, nor that. I am eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is brahma-bhūtaḥ, simply to change the consciousness. At the present moment our consciousness is material. I am identifying with matter. The same thing, consciousness, when changed, you identify with Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's interest, then you are liberated.
So Lord Buddha although incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He said that "I do not believe in Vedas." What was the reason? The reason was to save the poor animals. At that time people were sacrificing the poor animals under the plea of Vedic sacrifice. So demonic persons, they want to do something under the protection of authority. Just like a big lawyer takes the protection of the lawbook and he makes the law unlawful. Similarly, the demons are so intelligent that they take advantage of scriptural injunction and do all nonsense. So these things were going on. In the name of Vedic sacrifice, they were killing animals like anything. So Lord became very much compassionate these poor animals, and He appeared as Lord Buddha, and His philosophy was nonviolence. His philosophy was atheist because He said that "There is no God. This combination of matter is a manifestation, and you dismantle the material elements, there will be void and there will be no sense of pleasure and pain. That is the nirvāṇa, ultimate goal of life." That was His philosophy. But actually His mission was to stop animal killing, to stop the men from so much sinful activities. So Lord Buddha is also prayed herewith. So people will be surprised that Lord Buddha is designated as atheist and still the Vaiṣṇavas, they are offering their respectful prayers to Lord Viṣṇu (Buddha). Why? Because the Vaiṣṇava knows how the God is acting for His different purposes. Others, they do not know.
So this Deity worship in the temple means worshiping Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's akhilātmā-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Where you shall find Him? He's everywhere. Therefore, He has very kindly accepted to assume a form which you can handle. This form of Kṛṣṇa, the atheist will say that "Here is a form made of marble. How is that they are worshiping God, Kṛṣṇa?" That is atheist view. But from the śāstra, we understand Kṛṣṇa, if He is within the atom, why not within the marble? It is simply understanding. Not only within, the marble itself is also Kṛṣṇa. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These material elements, earth, earth, water, fire, air, they are Kṛṣṇa's energy. Kṛṣṇa says bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. They are My energies, separated energy. So even if you consider that here is not Kṛṣṇa but a marble. No, that marble is also Kṛṣṇa. Marble is also... And Kṛṣṇa is, being omnipotent, even for your logical argument... Even if you say that this is a marble statue, still Kṛṣṇa is so powerful, omnipotent, that He can accept your service even through this marble. Actually, it is not marble.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
The active principle is everything. From His energy, material energy, this huge gigantic material man..., cosmic manifestation is there, from His energy. And we are also His energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). The five material elements are also Kṛṣṇa's energy, and we living entities, we are also. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva-bhūtaṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Everything is explained there. But the mūḍhas, these duṣkṛtinas, the narādhamas, they cannot understand. Narādhama means lowest of the mankind. Why? Because cats and dogs cannot understand this philosophy. But a human being can understand. He has got the brain. Nature has given the fertile brain, but they are misusing it, duṣkṛtina, only for sense gratification. The brain was given to understand God, but the rascal is using for illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, and gambling. This is the position of the whole human society.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Abominable.
Prabhupāda: It is like that. Twenty-four elements. Five material elements, three subtle elements, then five working senses and five all knowledge gathering senses—how many?
Jayatīrtha: Eighteen.
Prabhupāda: Eighteen? No.
Jayatīrtha: So far.
Prabhupāda: Twenty-three, I think. Five gross elements, five senses..., five knowledge gathering senses, and five working senses, fifteen,...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then the objects...
Jayatīrtha: Three subtle...
Prabhupāda: The mind, ego, and mahat-tattva, eighteen, yes. And then five sense objects, the rūpa, rasa, form, taste, like that. Then twenty-three.
Jayatīrtha: The aggregate, pradhāna.
Prabhupāda: Pradhāna, and then the soul, twenty-five. Twenty-four and three guṇas. Three guṇas: sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Twenty-seven. So twenty-seven layers of garbage. Underneath, the soul is. What he will do? He is a small particle, soul, and he is covered with so many material elements. To come out of it is very very difficult. But if one is engaged in devotional service he can come out immediately. Just like when one is spiritually perfect, he goes immediately to Kṛṣṇa, penetrating these material coverings of the universe. Immediately. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9), immediately. That is spiritual force.
If anyone is living on the bodily concept of life, ātma-buddhiḥ tri-dhātuke... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ śarīre, tri-dhātu, kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body is a bag. Actually it is a bag. So long the soul is there, it is useful. As soon as the soul is not there, it is nothing but a bag of skin and bones. That's all. Everyone knows it. It is thrown away. It has no value. So actually it is a material bag made of this blood, skin, nails, bones, urine, stool. This is the ingredient of this body. If you think that this body is self, then you can create with this ingredient another soul. If you analyze this body, what is the ingredient? You will some blood, some veins, some bones, some skin, and some urine, some stool and some secretion. So they are available. So why don't you take all these ingredients and create another soul? They are available anywhere. But that is not possible. The big, big chemist, big, big scientists, they are trying to create living entities. Their theory is: "By chemical evolution there is living symptoms." But it is not possible. The soul is different from these material elements. Soul is different from the material elements. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find the... First of all, material elements, they have been described, Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, bhinnā me prakṛti aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parā, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jaga.... Jīva-bhūta (BG 7.5), the living entity, is completely different from this matter.
Initiation Lectures
So we have to take information from authoritative scriptures. So the body is made of five material elements: earth, water, air, fire and ether. So mind is still finer than the ether, and intelligence is still finer than the mind, and the soul is still finer than the intelligence. So generally, we are on the bodily platform. They are called karmīs. Bodily platform means that everyone is working for the bodily comfort. Bodily comforts means how to eat nicely, how to sleep nicely, how to have sex nicely and how to defend nicely. So these activities are there also in the animal life. Then, above these activities, there is mental activities. So the bodily activities are visible in the animal kingdom also, but mental activities, they are lacking. So the human being can tackle the mental activities, which is called psychology, the science of thinking, feeling and willing. So when still we go further, intellectual platform, how the mind should be utilized? So if we can intellectually utilize the mind, then we can approach the spiritual platform.
General Lectures
Just like sun planet, there is sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal, but if you have got power to enter into the sun globe, then you will find there, there are so many persons, they have got fiery body. It is not a fact in other planets there is no life. That is a nonsense. Every planet there is life, but they have got different situation, different atmosphere. The moon planet is very cold. Even the modern scientists, they agree that the temperature in the moon planet is below two hundred degree zero. So it is very cold. Similarly, sun planet is very hot. Similarly, there are other planets which is made of air, some planets made of water. These five elements, earth, water, air, ether, this is the, these are the ingredients of material world. So some planet is made of something, some planet is made of something. But this earth is made of earth only, and water. So in the sunshine you see, you go by airplane, go in the "friendly sky" above the... You see everything impersonal. Simply glaring sunshine, that's all. But that does not mean it is impersonal. There are many planets within the sunshine, millions of planets, but you cannot see. Similarly, persons who cannot see beyond the brahma-jyotir, the transcendental rays of the spiritual sky, they are impersonalists. They are impersonalists. But one who goes to the transcendental planets, Vaikuṇṭhas, Goloka Vṛndāvana, they see God is there person. As you are person, I am person, you'll find person.
Element, we generally mean, there are five elements. (break) That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
- indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
- indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
- manasas tu parā buddhir
- yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
- (BG 3.42)
So you, the spirit soul, you are above the intellectual platform. So this dress is the gross, gross covering. It has nothing to do with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But just like you go to your office, you dress in some way, similarly, this is a particular type of dress. It is sanctioned by our predecessors. We adopt. So if you don't accept this dress, that does not mean you cannot be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be achieved in any condition of life. It doesn't matter whether you are dressed in this way or in your American way or any way. That doesn't matter. It has nothing to do.
The same example, as I have given many times, that the postbox, or mailbox on the street, it is post office. If somebody thinks, "It is a box..." It is a box, but it is a post office at the same time. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everything. The bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ kham... (BG 7.4). Kṛṣṇa says, "My energy." As you cannot separate energy and the energetic, Kṛṣṇa is everything. So Kṛṣṇa can accept your service through everything. Don't consider that "This is metal." The metal is also Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we should know bhūmi..., bhūmi... Metal, what is metal? Metal means earth. Kṛṣṇa says, first of all says, bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ: "They are My all energies." So from argument's point of view, Kṛṣṇa is everything. Therefore Kṛṣṇa can accept service through everything. So this Deity, vigraha, either made of wood, made of stone or earth or metal or painting, they are not different from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa has got the potency to accept your service through this medium. So they are not pictures or they are not ordinary idols. You should never... Similarly, a sound vibration. Kṛṣṇa is present through sound vibration because the five elements, ākāśa, the sky... Sky, within sky, there is sound. So from argumentative point of view also, nobody can deny that this chanting of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa is not identical. It is identical. Because identical... Everything is identical.
So this jīva-tattva is accepted as prakṛti, not puruṣa. There are two kinds of prakṛtis or energies of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. One is called inferior energy, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ (BG 7.4), these material elements, earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and false ego, they are inferior energies of the Supreme Lord. And the jīva-bhūta, that superior energy world, because the superior energy tries to lord it over the material energy. Just like we are jīvas. Every one of us trying to utilize the material resources of the material nature. We are simply trying. Actually we are not bhoktā. Bhoktā is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
So śāstra says that this human form of life is not meant for this purpose. The human form of life is meant for tapasya: tapo divyaṁ yena śuddhyet sattva (SB 5.5.1). Satya means my existence. We have to purify our existence. Just like if you become feverish, you have to purify yourself from the feverish condition, come to the healthy condition, then you can enjoy life. You cannot enjoy life in diseased condition. That is not possible. Suppose you are feverish, you are given a nice foodstuff, rasagullā, but you will taste it bitter. You cannot enjoy it because on account of your fever the tongue is saturated with bile, and you taste sweet things as bitter. Similarly, we have got our senses, that is all right, but we cannot enjoy our senses in the diseased condition of material life. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam (BG 6.21). If you want happiness, even sense gratification, that is not possible when your senses are covered by these material elements. We have got our senses, that is a fact. We have got our desires, we have got our mind, we have got our other senses, but this is now covered by the material elements. This is called dress. Just like if you are simply dressed, and if you want to enjoy sense gratification, it is not possible. You have to undress yourself, you have to become naked yourself. Similarly, if you want to sense gratify, then you have to purify your this material existence. Sarvopādhi vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). You have to become purified. Śuddhyed satya yeṇa brahma-saukhyam anantam (SB 5.5.1). If you purify yourself, then by that purified senses you enjoy brahma-sukha. Brahma-saukhyaṁ tv anantam. Ananta means there is no end. Here, if you want to enjoy your senses in this material world, there is end. You cannot.
The example is given: just like the sunshine, the sun planet, and within the sun planet, the sun-god. According to Vedic religion, Vedic conception, every planet contains living entities. That is also very natural to conclude because within this material world, everything is made of five elements, gross: earth, water, fire, air, and sky. These are gross elements. And the subtle elements are mind, intelligence, and ego. So in some of the planets earth is prominent, some of the planets water is prominent, some of the planets the fire is prominent. In this way these five elements, gross elements... Every planet in the material world is made of these five gross elements. So just like here also we can experience that some of the living entities, just like the fishes, they are living in the water very peacefully. But if you are put into the water, you will not be comfortable. Perhaps you will die. Similarly, if the fishes are taken—that also we experienced—from the water, they will die on the land. Here we can see that some of the living entities, they can live comfortably within water. Some of the living entities, they can live comfortably on land, some of them in the air. Similarly, why not some of them in fire? Because after all, fire is also one of the material elements. So according to Vedic scripture there is life in the sun planet also. They have got fiery bodies. That's all. That is the difference. Just like the fishes here we see they have got watery bodies, similarly, one may have got fiery body. From logic, from argument, we cannot deny that. So this example, that in the sun planet there is a predominating deity or president or god, whatever you call... He is called sun-god, and his name is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, Vivasvān.
Oh, yes. Certainly. This is experienced in this life also. Just like you had a body of a child. That body is finished, but you are existing. You can remember that you had a body of a child, you had a body of a boy, but that body of the child, body of the boy is no longer existing. You are in a different body, but you know that you are existing. That is the proof that after this body, you will have another body. This is the proof. There is no difficulty to understand. As I am still living in spite of my changing childhood body, babyhood body, boyhood body, youthhood body, so naturally it should be concluded when I give up this body... Actually, I don't give up. The body... There are two kinds of bodies. This is gross body made of the five elements: earth, water, fire air and... And there is subtle body: mind, intelligence and ego. Just like we have got shirt and coat. So when we give up this gross body, we are carried by the subtle body to another gross body. So I am not giving up. Actually, I am not giving up this body. I am giving up this... Just like sometimes you give up the coat, but your underwear remains, and you take another coat or..., similarly, my, the subtle body will remain with me so long I am not emancipated or liberated from material condition. So presently when I give up this body, so I am carried by the subtle mind. And at the time of death, the condition of my mind will carry me to a particular type of body. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. We may accept any of them according... That will be given by superior authority. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Just like in huge, big establishment, management, a man is promoted by the superior authority or sometimes he is degraded, similarly, in this form of human body we have got intelligence to understand about God, about ourself, our relationship with God. If we don't utilize this body for this purpose, there is every possibility to be glided down in the animal kingdom.
These two lines of Bhagavad-gītā, that how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, if we simply study these two lines, then our life becomes different. But nobody cares to understand that the soul is eternal. It is changing, transmigrating from one type of body to another body. And there are 8,400,000 species or types of body, and we have been entrapped in this cycle of birth, death, old age and disease. This is our real problem. But in the university or any educational institution there is no department of knowledge to find out what is that thing which is entrapped within this body. We get this information from Bhagavad-gītā: dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Deha means this body, and dehinaḥ, the possessor of the body. Just like your shirt and coat. You are the possessor of the shirt and coat. The shirt and coat is not you. You are different from the shirt and coat. Similarly, we have got our two kinds of body: the gross body and the subtle body. The gross body is made of material elements—earth, water, fire, air, sky—and the subtle body is made of mind, intelligence and ego. So when we quit this gross body, the subtle body carries me to another gross body. This is the law of transmigration. It is not the question of belief. It is a fact that if we neglect to study this scientific knowledge, then we are missing the opportunity, because in this human form of life the developed knowledge can study what is there within this body which is so important, which missing, this body becomes worthless.
We are creating our desires within the mind, thinking, feeling and willing, and according to the thinking, feeling and willing, we are getting a certain type of body, one after another. This is the process. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntaraṁ prāptir (BG 2.13). Just like in this span of life, I was a child. Everyone was. Everyone remembers. Then I became a boy. I was playing. I can remember what I was doing in my childhood, boyhood. Then I became a young man. That also I remember. But those things have passed as dream. Now I am a different condition of life as old man. But I, the spirit soul, I remember that I was a child, I was a baby, I was a boy, I was a young man. Now I am old man. So the conclusion should be that although I have changed my bodies, I remember all these things. So the body and the remembering capacity, mean the subtle body, thinking, feeling and willing... That is called subtle body. We are now encaged in two types of body. Just like you are encaged with shirt and coat, similarly, I or you, living entity, is encaged in two types of body. The subtle body is mind, intelligence and ego, and the gross body is made of five elements: fire, earth, water, air, fire, and ether. These are very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
That I have already explained. Asmin dehe, in this body there is the proprietor of the body. This is conception of soul. Just like whenever we see some apartment or house we can understand that there is a resident or proprietor of this house. Similarly, we can understand, this body, there is some proprietor within this body. Therefore the body is working. If we see one house, nicely cleansed, there is light and everything is in order, we can understand there is resident. Similarly, when the proprietor of the body is there, the body is healthy... (break) ...That is the conception of existence of the soul. Nobody can deny it. (break)
...as soul without the body means ghost. Yes, that's a fact. Ghost means he has got no gross body, but he's working with the subtle body. We have got two kinds of bodies. The gross body is made of five elements, earth, water, air, fire, sky. And the subtle body is made of intelligence, mind and ego. So when a soul does not get a gross body, he has to work with the subtle body, that is ghostly life. So ghostly life is not false. Those who are too, too much sinful, sometimes they are condemned not to get a gross body. Just like if a man commits suicide. So nature gave him this gross body. He misused it. Therefore he's punished sometimes not to get again gross body. He becomes ghost.
So we are trying to become freed from this conditioned life. Just like people are trying to go to the moon planet. The desire is there. But because the life is conditioned, he cannot go. Just like I am a foreigner. I have come to your country. I am conditioned by your immigration law. There are so many conditions. One of the condition is that I cannot live here forever unless it is sanctioned by the government. So we are conditioned now. In this form of life, covered by the material elements, we are conditioned by the material nature. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
- prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni
- guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ
- ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā
- kartāham iti manyate
- (BG 3.27)
We are conditioned in every step by the laws of material nature. Still, foolishly we are thinking we are free. This is foolishness. We are so much controlled by the material nature, exactly like a small child is pulled by the ear by its mother. "Come here"—he comes here. "Go there." Just like a dog. A dog may feel very freedom jumping, but as soon as the master says, "Come here," he comes and immediately chained. This is our position.
One has got the dress of tree; one has got the dress of king; one has got the, insect. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ: (BG 5.18) "One who is paṇḍita, learned, his vision is equal." So if St. Francis was thinking like that, that is highest standard of spiritual understanding. Similar expression is there in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that sthāvara-jaṅgama dekhe nā dekhe tāra mūrti (CC Madhya 8.274). A spiritually advanced devotee of the Lord, he sees the trees or the animals or the stone or the anything he sees—he sees that it is the energy of God. Nā dekhe tāra mūrti. Just like your mūrti or my mūrti—mūrti means form—may be little different, but we are made of the same ingredients. If your body surgically operated, the same blood, stone, or bone, or flesh, everything is there the same because same ingredients. Similarly, our outward covering is covered by these material elements, but inside, within this, there is the spirit soul. Therefore one who is advanced, he does not see that "This is cat, this is dog, this is man, this is elephant, and this is brāhmaṇa, this is this..." No. He sees the soul, that "Here is the soul, part and parcel of God." That is his vision. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). So that is God realization. God is spirit, Supreme Spirit, and he is part and parcel, the living entities. That is real vision. Paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍitāḥ means learned.
Spiritual consciousness is, it is stated in the Vedas, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." The food belongs to God, the mine belongs to God, the ocean belongs to God, the land belongs to God, the air belongs to God, and whatever we find here... This is a combination of these five elements: earth, air, water, fire. That's all. So everything belongs to God. We also belong to God. So we should feel obliged to God that He has given so much for our maintenance. (break) ...fruits, flowers, vegetables, land, ocean, mine, jewels. So we can use it as much as we require. We cannot collect it and keep it in stock for my future son, grandson, this son, that son. No. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is actually perfect communism. The Communists are thinking in terms of the human being, and that also within the state, but a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, he is thinking in terms of all living beings. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini, śuni caiva śva-pāke ca (BG 5.18). In the Bhāgavata it is stated that a householder, before taking his lunch, he should invite on the street, "Sir, if anyone is still hungry, please come at my place. There is still food. You can take it." And he should see that in the household even the lizard he is not hungry. Even there is a snake, he is not hungry. This is Vedic principle, God consciousness, that "Somehow or other, one animal has become lizard. Maybe he is hungry. So at my house he is. Why he should remain hungry? Give him some food." Nobody likes snake, but in the śāstra it is said, "Even there is a snake, you should see that he is not hungry, he is given some food."
There are different types of religion, but the supreme religion is parā dharma, that is yato bhaktir adhokṣaje, that religious system which instructs the followers how to become a perfect devotee of the Supreme Lord. That is first-class religion. We are fighting in this material world. "You are Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Sikh," "I am Jain," "I am this," "I am that," but this is not paro dharma; this is aparo dharma. Parā and aparā, there are two qualities, just like material and spiritual. Material is called aparā, and spiritual means parā, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam.
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
These material elements—earth, water, fire, air, sky, mind, intelligence, and false ego—these are eight material elements, out of which five are gross-bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyu—and three are very subtle. Just like everyone: I know you think with your mind; you know also I think with my mind. But mind is subtle. I cannot see your mind, neither you can see my mind, neither I can see my mind, nor you can see your mind. This is subtle. And the finer than the mind is intelligence, and finer than the intelligence is egoism or egotism, and finer than egotism is the soul.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: The first antimony describes the quantity of the world. The second antimony deals with the quality of the world. The thesis is, "Every composite substance in the world is made up of simple parts, and nothing whatever exists but the simple, or that which is composed out of the simple." And the antithesis is, "No composite thing in the world is made up of simple parts, nor does anything simple exist anywhere in the world." On the one hand, everything is simple, made up of simple parts. On the other hand, nothing is simple; everything is complex.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The simple is, we say, the whole world is made of material energy. This is simple. Now, the component parts of material energy, there are so many things—mahat-tattva, then pradhāna, then puruṣa, then twenty-four elements, the five gross elements, eight subtle elements, the five senses, the objects of the senses—and in this way there are so many analytical complications.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. Everyone will die means change his apartment. Now at the time of changing apartments... Suppose I am here, I have to change another, so I can select my apartment, what kind of apartment I shall have. But that apartment is already there. I'll have to simply make arrangement, that's all. It is not that I am creating that apartment.
Śyāmasundara: The elements, material elements, ingredients are already there.
Prabhupāda: Already there.
Karandhara: The possibilities are unlimited so it's not possible to make such a close...
Prabhupāda: And that apartment is fixed up 8,400,000. Now you can enter into any apartment. Or it is to be ascertained that you cannot think beyond this. Just like a hotel owner, he has got different types of apartments, and he knows the customer cannot think beyond it. So any customer wants, "I'll give this apartment." So by nature's way there are 8,400,000's of apartments. You simply change according to your mentality: "I want this," "All right. Come on."
Karandhara: There's a range. To go back to the...
Prabhupāda: It is, apartment is not evolving. I am evolving in this sense that I am changing one apartment to a better apartment. The better apartment is already there.
Śyāmasundara: So Darwin said that also, that one's superior traits are passed on to his children, like that. And then the superior traits survive over the inferior traits, and so on.
Prabhupāda: And where he goes? After transferring to the children, where Mr. Darwin goes?
Śyāmasundara: He disintegrates into matter.
Karandhara: It's total materialism because there's no spirit, just a combination of material elements.
Prabhupāda: Then if you are going again to be mixed with the elements, then why you are bothering your head about your children?
Śyāmasundara: He's concerned on a social level...
Prabhupāda: In the beginning, in the beginning you are in the matter. By evolution you have come to, again you are going to the matter. So why you bother in the middle so much. After all, you are matter. In the beginning you are matter and at the end you're going to be matter.
Śyāmasundara: He's concerned that the society can be made better by this understanding.
Prabhupāda: So why do you concern with the society? You are going to be (indistinct). It may be better or no, but it doesn't matter.
Śyāmasundara: There are several theories in that book of yours. Where is that book about the origin of life? There are several theories how everything began. They are quite interesting.
Prabhupāda: That is theory, but we see practically that material things, material elements, ingredients, they cannot be combined automatically. There must be a living entity who will combine them.
Śyāmasundara: One of the theories is that everything comes out of energy.
Prabhupāda: Energy means somebody's energy. I am sitting here, I am pushing one button, the energy is immediately created, and it goes. Just like this telex machine. So somebody is pushing the button.
Karandhara: The energetic.
Prabhupāda: And then energy, immediately produced. Computer machine, the machine is doing nothing out of his own accord. Somebody is going and pushing the button. Then it will..., the energy is created. Similarly, according to our Vedic knowledge, as soon as God wishes, immediately the energy is set off, set into action, and then other things come automatically.
Prabhupāda: What is the purport?
Śyāmasundara: "All kinds of weapons, swords, flames, rains, tornadoes, etc., are unable to kill the spirit soul. It appears that there were many kinds of weapons made of earth, water, air, ether, etc., in addition to the modern weapons of fire. Even the nuclear weapons of the modern age are classified as fire weapons, but formerly there were other weapons made of all different types of material elements. Firearms were counteracted by water weapons, which are now unknown to modern science. Nor do modern scientists have knowledge of tornado weapons. Nonetheless, the soul can never be cut into pieces nor annihilated by any number of weapons, regardless of scientific devices. Nor was it ever possible to cut the individual souls from the original Soul. The Māyāvādī, however, cannot describe how the individual soul evolved from ignorance and consequently became covered by illusory energy. Because they are atomic individual souls (sanātana) eternally, they are prone to be covered by the illusory energy, and thus they become separated from the association of the Supreme Lord..."
Prabhupāda: The vital source of the soul can be temporarily covered by physical elements, but it is not belonging to the group of physical elements. That is our system.
Śyāmasundara: And he says that reason is only to explain the life process because reason is not...
Prabhupāda: Reason explain... He cannot explain because he does not know. The soul is a living force, and it has got little independence. So the supreme living force is God, and he is part and parcel of God, exactly like the spark of the whole fire. So this song, he has finished, bhuliya tomāre saṁsāre. So as soon as the soul receives his independence from (indistinct) become God Himself or wants to become enjoyer of the material nature, he becomes powerless, and he is subjected to the influence (indistinct) by the physical elements, and because he forgets his real identity, he thinks that he is body. Just like Darwin's theory. He is not this body. It is simply, circumstantially, a covering, a dress, and the living soul is different from the physical body.
Śyāmasundara: According to the chemists, there are 108 basic elements, and gold is one of them.
Prabhupāda: That may be, but I say that what you call gold is a combination of other metals. So gold, this is not absolute. This is relative. Because other metals have combined together, it is now known as gold. Similarly, the whole world is combination of different material elements, and the gross elements are this earth, water, fire, air, ether.
Śyāmasundara: What about..., they say that there is a basic atom called a hydrogen atom.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you will call it, it is also matter. The minute particles are matter. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: That's right. Inside these molecules there are atoms, and inside the atoms there are more particles, and it goes on, smaller and smaller.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all matter.
Śyāmasundara: He says that a proposition is a picture of reality, a picture is a model of reality, a picture is a fact, the world is a totality of facts, the totality of true thoughts is a picture of the world.
Prabhupāda: Totality of not facts, that is a combination of gross matter, combination of gross and subtle matter. But this gross and subtle matter are projection of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore totalities, they can be said Kṛṣṇa's external energy. And because Kṛṣṇa's energy, the energy and energetic, sometimes separated, sometimes mixed up; when separated, it manifests as something creation; when it is mixed up, the energy is no longer—it is merged into the energetic. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate cause.
Prabhupāda: And what he will do in the meantime?
Hayagrīva: I don't know what happens...
Devotee: (indistinct)
Hayagrīva: ...what happens to the material elements. The material elements disintegrate, disintegrate...
Prabhupāda: The material body...
Hayagrīva: They're distributed in nature.
Prabhupāda: ...it finishes, but of course this idea can be maintained. In the higher sense, that is not gross body; that is spiritual body. That is applicable to God and special representative of God, not to all. Then that is not material body; that is spiritual body. Means when God appears He appears in His spiritual body. It does not change. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that millions of years ago He spoke to the sun-god, and Arjuna questioned, "How it is to be understood that millions of years ago You spoke it?" So He said that "Yes, I did. You were also present, but you do not remember. I remember." So how it is possible? One who does not change the body, He can remember. Just like when we do not change the body, I can remember, but when we change body we do not remember. This is the principle. So this resurrection, I do not know what the exact meaning, but as to the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6). He comes in His original body, not covered by material body. Therefore, because He has no material body, there is no change.
Hayagrīva: Not intelligently.
Prabhupāda: That means a rascal. A rascal can say that "I appeared without father and mother." That's not possible. So we say that everyone appears, not only human being. All animals, all plants, trees, everywhere—there are 8,400,000 species of life—they have appeared from these material elements. Either from the water... The fishes is appearing in the water, and the plants and trees, they are appearing on the land, and then insects, birds and everything. Everything is appearing. So material nature is the mother. That is accepted. So as soon as you accept mother there must be father. Where you get this conception that we are appearing without father and mother? How it, how it is possible?
Rāmeśvara: He just wants to put the question aside.
Prabhupāda: Why? This is the primary question, wherefrom you appeared.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Of these five elements. Especially earth, water and fire. Just like this brick What is this brick? Earth, water, mix and put it into fire. It is brick.
Śyāmasundara: (aside:) Should I turn it off? (?)
Prabhupāda: And you crush this brick, it becomes mortar. And mix with lime and water. Then it becomes cementing plaster, and put the bricks after bricks with that cement and it becomes house. So ultimately earth, water, and fire. Tejo-vāri-mṛdāṁ vinimayam, exchange of earth, water, and fire.
Śyāmasundara: And he says that nothing remains at rest, that everything is in perpetual transition.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is accepted. That is called jagat. Gacchati. Everything is going on, forward. That is called jagat.
Śyāmasundara: Even the activities of the spiritual world are like that?
Prabhupāda: No. Spiritual world is different. We are speaking of material world. In spiritual world the activity is eternal. In material world activity is not eternal.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that he wants to find some categories which define the characteristics of everything, that everything possesses these things in common.
Prabhupāda: That five elements: earth, water, fire, air... Anything you take, these things are there. And subtler things: mind, intelligence, and ego. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that these eight kinds of material elements are differentiated energy of Kṛṣṇa.
Śyāmasundara: His categories are a little more abstract. He says that the primary category is motion.
Prabhupāda: But wherefrom the motion comes? That is insufficient knowledge. When you... Motion means somebody must move, push on. That is accepted by Professor Einstein. If somebody has pushed, the motion has begun. Now it is going on. Just like in the billiard table, push one ball, "Hut!" And it goes.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says that there are four major categories besides the primary category of motion and they are 1) identity or diversity. Each thing has a personal identity, an individuality, and each thing is different from every other thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called sajātīya-vijātīya bheda in Sanskrit. Different... Sajātīya. Just like two trees, two mango trees, but still there is difference. They are one as mango tree, but this tree is different from that tree. Similarly, the fingers. As finger they are one, but this finger is different from this finger. Although sajātī. Sajātī means of the same category, but there is difference. Although the same category, finger, but this finger is bigger than this finger. The whole body. It's a part of the body. Hand is different from leg. Leg is different from his head. Head is different from palm. Palm is different from sole. There are so many differences. They are called sajātī vijātī.
Śyāmasundara: So the second thing that he sees that characterizes everything, that all things possess in common, is existence, or being.
Prabhupāda: That is five elements. Just like there are differences between tree and your body, my body, but this body is made of the five elements: earth, water, air, fire. The tree is also made of the same elements, earth, water, air, fire... The aquatic body, fish's body, is also made of the same ingredients. Only difference is that one ingredient is prominent, other ingredients... Therefore you can take up this fact that there are living entities in the sun. The sun, because it appears fiery, you cannot exist. Your body cannot exist in the fire. But it does not mean there cannot be somebody whose body itself is fire. How can you deny it? And body being fiery, he can stay in the fiery planet of the same temperature.
Hayagrīva: Concerning the fall of the soul, Plotinus believes that the human soul never entirely leaves the spiritual realm.
Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life. That is going on. So in order to save ourselves from the repetition of changing body, if we want to remain in our original, eternal, spiritual form, we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then we are relieved from this rotten business of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
Prabhupāda: The spirit soul is within this material body, but the spirit soul has no material body originally. There is a spiritual body of the spirit soul eternally existing, and the material body is simply coating of the spiritual body. This material body is considered as coating, shirt-coat. It is cut according to the bodily shape. Just ordinarily we can see the tailor makes the shirt and coat according to the shape of the body. Similarly, these material elements, earth, water, fire, etc., mixed together, becomes like a clay, and it is coated over the spiritual body. The spiritual body has no connection with the material body. So because the spiritual body has got shape, the material body also takes a shape. That is understanding. But material body has nothing to do with the spiritual body. It is simply external coating, or it is a kind of contamination for suffering of the spirit soul. As soon as he is coated with this material contamination, he identifies himself with the coating and he forgets his real, spiritual body. That is called māyā, ignorance, and this ignorance continues so long he is not fully Kṛṣṇa conscious. When one becomes fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he understands that this material body is the external coating; he is different from this material body.
Hayagrīva: Yes. Spinoza is impersonal. He asserts that God cannot be a remote cause of the creation. He says that the creation flows from God in the same way that conclusions flow from principles in mathematics. God is free to create, but He is the eminent cause. That is to say, the creation is an extension of Himself.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is, He creates by His energy. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated,
- bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
- khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
- bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ aṣṭadhā
- (BG 7.4)
These eight kinds of material elements—earth, water, air, fire, sky, mind, intelligence and ego—they are material energies, and this material world is made of these material elements. So because it is made of God's energy, therefore it is called created by God. But this is creation of His energy. Prakṛtiḥ pradhāna, upadhāna, pradhāna. The ingredients are coming from Him, and prakṛtiḥ, nature, creates. This is the idea of creation. So God is a remote cause and a eminent cause also, because these elements, they are God's energy. So the eminent cause is the energy. Therefore it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "By Me, everything is expanding." So when He says "By Me," then He is the eminent cause. There are two causes: remote and eminent.
Prabhupāda: Anything you take, that is perfection of knowledge in God. Which thing is not related with God? Everything is related with God. In the material world anything you will take it is made of the five elements, but these five elements, they are expansion of God's energy. So intelligent person sees in everything with reference to God's expansion of energy. That is the position of devotee. He does not think anything separate from God. And as he is lover of God, devotee of God, he wants to engage everything, because if everything is God's property, that should be used for God's benefit. This is devotee's conception. The asuras, they have no conception of God. Neither they are obedient to God, neither lover of God. He thinks the material world is for his enjoyment. He cannot see the material world is expansion of God's energy. Therefore anyone who uses the material product for his personal benefit, he is called a thief. Just like I have created something. If somebody use up that something and does not think of the proprietor, he is a thief. Thief means, in our childhood we got a definition of thief, that anything taken without the permission the property is theft. That is very nice. So anything in this world has reference to the expansion of energy of God. So if you do not take everything as prasādam, then you are thief and you are punishable. A thief is always punished. So therefore those who are enjoying things without reference to the God, they are all demons and they are punishable. They are thieves.
| Page Title: | Material elements (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 30 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=53, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 53 |