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Material bodies (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"body that is material" |"material bodies" |"material body"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Acyutānanda: Then why the distinction...?

Prabhupāda: But because you have accepted this material body, you are foolishly thinking that you are not eternal. Otherwise, as God is eternal, you are also eternal.

Acyutānanda: Then why should one be distinguished from another if they are both eternal?

Prabhupāda: Just like the sun distinguished from the sunshine, but qualitatively heat and light is there. But because sunshine is there, you cannot say sun is there. That you cannot say. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Clearly said.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: I think, Swamijī, you explained this, and I could draw rationality from it, that "I am īśa, but not I am sarveśa. I am ātman but not Paramātman."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So digging must begin today? The men are there for digging? So Saurabha, you give one site plan immediately. Yes. And order bricks, that's all. Cement and sand we have got. (break) ...any living entity having a material body, he has got soul. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Now preach this movement. (break) Begin also building there, like this.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That piece of land right here?

Prabhupāda: Huh.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When do you want to begin it?

Prabhupāda: Immediately.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Eh? And you say there is no.... You are our student. You are saying there is no heart. That means you do not carefully read.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, that's there, but is that the heart of the soul or the heart of the gross material body?

Prabhupāda: Then.... Heart there is, as you have got heart. What you are? The same constitution.

Hariśauri: In the Kaṭha Upaniṣad it describes how they're sitting side by side.

Prabhupāda: The same constitution of the body. Otherwise there is no question of heart.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You've just challenged the whole field of biology also.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the.... I say they're nonsense, rascals. They say that there is no.... And what is their knowledge? We don't give any value to their knowledge. Kṛṣṇa says clearly, hṛd-deśe 'rjuna. And this body is just like a yantra, machine. So as machine means, moving machine means it must have wheel, it must have sitting place.... Everything is there, machine.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then you entered a matter, material body created by your father and mother. Then you grew. Then, when you were sufficiently grown, then you have come out. Then again grew, again grow, again grow. Again it becomes old. You give up this body, in the same way again enter another mother's body, again develop another body. This science has to be understood, how it is going on. And that is Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- April 23, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Then? God is like man. You mean to say the form of God is like man?

Guru-kṛpā: No, flesh and bone.

Guest (2): Flesh and bone, glorified and perfected.

Guru-kṛpā: Matter. God has a material body.

Guest (2): Of glory and perfection.

Prabhupāda: No, no, how do you glorify the flesh and bone? It is very hard? It is very nice to eat? Is that glorification?

Guest (2): It's not difficult, I don't.... My feeling.... God...

Prabhupāda: You don't bring your feeling. I mean to say, you must bring scriptural order. How do you glorify flesh and bone?

Guest (2): Well, Christ brought that about in the resurrection, when he was resurrected.

Prabhupāda: How do you say? Practically say that how you glorify a lump of flesh and piece of bone? That is my question. What is the glorification of a lump of flesh and a piece of bone?

Guest (2): God can do it. That's all I can say.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do it. Can?

Guest (2): I cannot.

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:
Prabhupāda: So therefore we are giving facility, "All right, fill up your belly, fill up your belly. And you'll be infected." As you take foodstuff from a infected area, you become infected with some disease, so this is Kṛṣṇa infected, prasādam. You take it, and one day you'll be diseased with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is a fact. Some way or other, let him come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. He'll be benefited. Some way or other, let him come to the light. May be dim light or very big light. Light is light. So if anyone understands that there is a soul which is conducting the business of this body, then he can very easily understand that there is a Supersoul who is conducting the business of the whole material manifested world. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). If you convince that the body is useless, a lump of matter only, but the soul is the prime factor, similarly, he'll very easily understand that there is huge, gigantic material body of earth, water, air, fire, sky; they are working so wonderfully on account of the Supersoul. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: athavā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna.
Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Chanting is purifying all material desires. It will take, gradually. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). If you are chanting without any offense, then your heart will be cleansed of all material contamination. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Bharadvāja: So pulling out the weeds means avoiding the offenses in chanting the holy name.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So long we'll have material desires, we'll have to accept a material body and fulfill the desires.

Mahendra: Sometimes, although a devotee understands that he must take birth again if he does not, if he is not strict, he thinks, "Oh, it is so difficult to be strict. Maybe I'll just take it easy and remain engaged in devotional service, then I'll take another birth as a devotee and maybe next time I'll finish up my business."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. He gets good opportunity of material enjoyment, and then take birth in good family, aristocratic or brāhmaṇa. Then where he ended in last life, he begins again. There is a verse: paurva-dehikam. Paurva-dehikam means previous birth.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Trivikrama: The bad way is also the mercy of the Lord to help us realize that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Bad way, good way, man proposes, God disposes. You want something, bad or good.... Actually, everything is bad. This body or the fish's body or the dog's body, that is all material body. So everything is bad. But I prefer to get the body of a human being or a dog or a fish or a bird. That is my choice. So God gives you that body. Everywhere God's mercy is there, because whatever you want, ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11). In the material world, you have come to enjoy. You cannot enjoy. You are thinking.... Just like child. He's playing with something for sometime, again taking another thing, again taking another thing, childish. So similarly we want to enjoy this material world. Sometimes I am thinking it will be convenient if I get a man's body, it will be convenient if I get a tiger's body, it will be convenient if I get a fish's body. So God is supplying you: "All right, you take this body." So what is God's fault? He is very kind. You wanted to do something. Do it.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-gataḥ is another, sarva-ga, the word is used. Sarva-ga means he can go anywhere he likes. He can go anywhere. Such freedom is there. That is confirmed in another verse. Yānti deva-vratā devān: you can go to the deva-loka. The moon planet is the beginning of the heavenly planets. You can go there. You simply prepare yourself.

yānti deva-vratā devān
pitṟn yānti pitṛ-vratāḥ
bhūtāni yānti bhūtejyā
yānti mad-yājino 'pi mām
(BG 9.25)

"And if one tries to go back to Me, back to home, back to, he can also go there." The intelligence is there that if, by preparing myself, I can go to God, why shall I endeavor to go to this moon, to the sun, to the hell, to the this or that? For everything, I'll have to prepare; so why not prepare myself to go back to home, back to Godhead? That is intelligence. Wherever you want to go, you have to prepare yourself, you have to make some endeavor. So why not make little endeavor for going back to home, back to Godhead? Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). And if once you go to God, then you haven't got to come back again to accept this material body. So why not endeavor for this? This is intelligence.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Arcita: Śrīla Prabhupāda, just like in this material body there are so many millions of living entities, but there's one living entity, myself, who's thinking that "I am this body." Is it the same way in the spiritual body—there are many living entities in one body but there's one living entity who's thinking that "I am this body"?

Prabhupāda: Explain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's many living entities within the body. Just like there's tiny germs, worms, all kinds of living beings. Because of our attachment, our particular modes of material nature, kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22), we are identifying with this material body.

Arcita: Is it the same in the spiritual body? Is it the same in the spiritual body? Is the spiritual body actually composed of many living entities, but there's one living entity...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The spiritual body is identical with the soul. Here in the material world there is duality, inferior and superior. In the spiritual world everything is of a superior nature. There is no duality. There's no material.

Prabhupāda: Petrol smelling everywhere.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, purport read.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: "In the material world in any form of life there is some so-called happiness and so-called distress. No one invites distress in order to suffer, but still it comes. Similarly, even if we do not endeavor to obtain the advantages of material happiness, we shall obtain them automatically. This happiness and distress are obtainable in any form of life without endeavor. Thus there is no need to waste time and energy fighting against distress or working very hard for happiness. Our only business in the human form of life should be to revive our relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead and thus become qualified to return home, back to Godhead. Material happiness and distress come as soon as we accept a material body, regardless of what form. We cannot avoid such happiness and distress under any circumstances. The best use of human form of life, therefore, lies in reviving our relationship with the Supreme Lord Viṣṇu."

Prabhupāda: So, is there any question about this statement?

Arnold Weiss: Yes. What originally caused us to lose our relationship with Lord Kṛṣṇa? I understand it is due to our desires, but how is this desire manifest?

Prabhupāda: Relationship is not lost. Just like you... Either you are in the prison house or you are in the kingdom of the state, your relationship with government is there. It does not mean that when you are put into the prison house to suffer, it does not mean you have lost relationship, is it that?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point.

Hṛdayānanda: One point you're mentioning, Prabhupāda, is a strong inclination for sense enjoyment is the cause of the material body. So it seems that people try to enjoy their senses in order to become happy, but actually they are causing their own suffering.

Prabhupāda: Entanglement. Sat-saṅga chāḍiyā kāinu asate vilāsa te-kāraṇe lāgila ye mora karma-bandha-phāṅsa. This entanglement.... To repeat birth and death is entanglement. That they do not know. Na te viduḥ. They're obliged to accept this entanglement life. So? Time is up? So read another verse.

Hṛdayānanda: Another verse?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I have a question, if it's all right. This is, Prahlāda is instructing his schoolmates, but his schoolmates, I think they would argue, "That's all right, but we are young now; let us enjoy. Then later on in life we shall take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Prabhupāda: And unless you learn.... Just like education is given when one is young, and when one is old enough, he cannot take any education. The education, receptive faculty is there when one is young. Otherwise, he cannot take any education.

Magazine Interview -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There are two things. One is your body and the other, the living force which is moving your body. There is no question of decision; it is already decided. There are two things. But our point is that two things are there, the material body and the moving force. So what we are speaking, we are speaking of the living force, moving force, and people in general, they're interested with this body. Therefore our subject matter is little difficult for such common man. We are speaking simply on the subject matter of that living force, what is that living force. Our beginning is from that point, that body is different from the living force. And general people, they do not understand. Although they feel that there is living force something, they say it is chemical combination and so on, so on. But that is not the fact. It is a different commodity, material, or it is not material, spiritual identity which is different from this combination of matter, this body. So it requires little training to understand. Although it is very simple fact, but their brain is very dull, material. They see daily, but still, they propose so many things which is impractical. Just like you said that it is chemical composition and they're trying to do it in future.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Okay, okay. You said in the purport that tragedies of life—I'm paraphrasing—tragedies of life such as death of even a close relative are mere incidental occurrences. Is...? But you said earlier that death to you was anything but a mere incidental occurrence, that it was the...

Prabhupāda: No, we are not irresponsible to the death. Death, although we have to meet death, we are making provision that after death we become happy. Happy, of course, for us, even in living condition or dead condition, there is happiness, but it will take time to understand. But taking superficially, death is not very pleasing, so after death, that is mentioned in the Bha.... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), we do not get again a material body. This is final. The material body is the cause of pains and pleasure. So if you don't get the material body, if you remain in your spiritual body, that is real enjoyment.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: And Jesus Christ is the only son of the Lord, and he's the Lord also at the same time.

Hari-śauri: And they say he has a material body, and he is God incarnated into flesh.

Prabhupāda: We also say. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ.

Satsvarūpa: The guru is as good as God. And only by the guru...

Prabhupāda: But he's servant.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. And we also say only by the mercy of the guru. But they say only through Jesus. (break) ...so many similarities. Sometimes a Christian asks, "What is unique about your religion? Why should I...? It seems to be the same as what we have."

Hari-śauri: The unique thing is that we're actually able to follow teachings, whereas they are not.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: I lived in one Christian monastery, Śrīla Prabhupāda, before, with monks. There is no bliss. They don't have kīrtana and prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Jaya Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Kathy Kerr: Do you consider that going..., your movement then is basically more of an educational movement than a religious movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Educational. It is religious, but it is not a man-made religious. Our idea.... I have already explained that our idea of religion means that like the sugar, it must be sweet. It is not that in Europe sugar is not sweet, in India it is sweet. Sugar, wherever it is, it is sweet. Similarly, the soul, the spirit soul is the same everywhere. So he, the spirit soul, is now embodied within this material body, and he is suffering on account of this material body. So we are teaching everyone how to get out of this material body and stay in his original, spiritual body. This is our real movement. This is another way..., another name is liberation. We are suffering within this body. Our suffering means on account of this body. So if there is such science how to continue our life without changing body, that science we are teaching. It is purely educational.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: The problem is that we are suffering in this material world life after life, and our aim is how to again go back to home, back to Godhead. That they do not know. They are showing some mysticism. Stop death. Then I shall see your mysticism. What is this nonsense mysticism? Can you stop death? Is it possible? Then what is the meaning of this mysticism? All bogus. My problem is that I am accepting one body and suffering, because as soon as I get this material body, I have to suffer. Then I am creating another body. I die. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). And again begins another chapter. In this way, from this grass life to the demigods, I am simply changing body and dying and taking birth. This is my problem. So what mysticism will do? But that they do not know, what is the problem. That is clearly stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). This is your problem. You are repeatedly taking birth and dying, and so long you are living there are so many troubles. Jarā-vyādhi. Especially old age and disease. So this is the problem. What mysticism will help you? Will the mysticism stop your birth, death, old age and disease? Then that is mysticism. Otherwise, what is the use of such nonsense things. (break) ...misleading from the real path. They do not know what is the aim of life, what is the problem of life. They create some mysticism, and some rascal people are after them. That's all. "Here is mystic."

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Jayādvaita: It's in the list of items of knowledge, "The perception of the evil of birth, death, old age and disease."

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the cure, medicine, is also given: tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). If you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then.... Everyone has to give up this body, but a person who is in thorough knowledge of Kṛṣṇa, then he, after giving up this body, he does not accept any more material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). Find out his verse.

Jayādvaita: "One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not, upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the solution. Therefore our only business should be to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. That makes the solution-tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Our propaganda is how to understand Kṛṣṇa. And this yoga, Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga, simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is explained.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: There is no distinction between man and woman. That is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpā-yonayaḥ striyo śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ (BG 9.32). The first is mentioned, striya. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyāḥ. These classes are understood to be less intelligent-woman, śūdra, and the vaiśyas. But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, even for them it is open." Because in the spiritual platform there is no such distinction, man, woman, or black, white, or big or small. No. Everyone is spirit soul. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne brāhmaṇe gavi hastini śuni caiva śva-pāke ca paṇḍitāḥ (BG 5.18), one who is actually learned, he is sama-darśinaḥ. He does not make any distinction. But so far our material body is concerned, there must be some distinction for keeping the society in order.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Just as the glove has a certain form because the hand is shaped like that, the material body of a human has that form because the spirit is in that form? And the tree has that form because the spirit is in that form?

Prabhupāda: Here difficulty is that the form is fixed up. That is not.... Just like Kṛṣṇa appears in so many forms, everything is spiritual. So what do you think?

Devotee (2): So the form in the spiritual sky is not absolute either? We can take different forms in the spiritual sky?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are also many forms, but all of them are spiritual. The Vṛndāvana. There is tree, there is Yamunā water, there is land, there is cow, there is calf, there is gopas, gopīs, they are all spiritual. Just like from earth you make many forms, but they are earth. You make pots, you make dolls, but they are all earth. Similarly, spiritual world, there are many forms, they are all spiritual. What is the difficulty?

Pradyumna: Does that form ever change? That form changes also?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: "Gradually, step by step, with full conviction, one should become situated in trance by means of intelligence, and thus the mind should be fixed on the self alone and should think of nothing else." Purport: "By proper conviction and intelligence one should gradually cease sense activities. This is called pratyāhāra. The mind, being controlled by conviction, meditation, and cessation of the senses, should be situated in trance, or samādhi. At that time there is no longer any danger of becoming engaged in the material conception of life. In other words, although one is involved with matter, as long as the material body exists, one should not think about sense gratification. One should think of no pleasure aside from the pleasure of the Supreme Self. This state is easily attained by directly practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, before you said the patient has no intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he requires spiritual master's guidance. Because he is rascal. What is the use of accepting a spiritual master? If you want to be cured independently, what is the use of calling a physician, consulting a physician? You do it yourself. (pause) Whether our cows are left now? We don't find cows.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tathā dehāntara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Kṛṣṇa, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact. Huh? Their education is so advanced. (laughter) Therefore mūḍha, the word is used. So-called education keeps them as an ass. Cannot understand the simple truth. So everyone is getting milk? How much?

Kīrtanānanda: As much as they want.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He's advising that, "My dear friends, pleasure, material pleasure, on account of this material body, particular type of body...": A dog, it has got a body, and I have got a body. So my sex pleasure and dog's sex pleasure, there is no difference, the pleasure derived out of sex pleasure is the same. But a dog is not afraid of having sex pleasure on the street before everyone. We hide it. That's all. In a nice apartment. But the business is the same. There is no difference. But they are taking this sex pleasure in a nice apartment and very decorated, man and woman, and electric light and so on, so on. This pleasure is advanced. But that is not advanced. And they are making dog's race for this advancement. Superficial. The Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this is a question of different types of pleasure on account of different types of body, but the pleasure is the same. But according to the different types of body the pleasure is already fixed up. That is called destiny. A pig has got a certain type of body and his eatable is the stool. It is already fixed up. You cannot change it, that "Let the pig eat halavā." It is not possible. Because he has got a particular type of body, he must eat that. Can anyone, any scientist can improve the standard of living of a pig? Is it possible?

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: We are practically seeing it, that material nature... Some infection, this is also material nature, and if you are infected with some contaminous disease, you must suffer. They practically see it. The nature will work. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ. As soon as we are in this material world... I am living entity, spirit soul, and because I am in this material world, I have accepted this material body under the regulation of the material laws. Otherwise why there are so many varieties of life? Here is a tree. It is standing here. We are human beings; we are also here. But when there is cold blast, scorching heat, we can go into the room, but he has to be standing here for thousands of years. Why this distinction? It cannot move even an inch. It is also living entity. Why he is punished in that way? And when there will be snowfall, pinching cold, he cannot go. But a small ant, it can go from here to there. Moving and not moving, the two kinds of living entities... Some of them can move; some of them cannot move, sthāvara. Just like grass. We are trampling over with our legs. It cannot protest. Why these differences of grades of life? This is described here. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte (BG 13.22). What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enjoys. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.

Arrival Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Not outside. Not like England, they have to import from... This is a very good example. Just like salt, we require. A little salt will increase the taste. But because it is absolutely necessary for eating, salt—everyone eats salt, nobody can avoid salt—it does not mean I shall eat too much. If I take this whole salt pot and put into..., "It is very good," that is foolishness. Similarly, sense gratification, so long we have got this material body, we require little. But because it is tasty, let us take it, whole pot, that is mistake. This is going on. This foolishness is going on. Sex life is good; simply take sex life, go on and spoil your whole life. That is going on. If everything is accepted in regulative principle, little salt, that's all, that's very nice. But as soon as you think "It is very nice. Let me take simply this," then it is spoiled. That is wanted. We don't reject anything but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animals? There are so many other animals. The goats are there, the lambs are there, the hogs are there. Take them. Why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? It is a very important animal. It will give you brain substance, this rasagullā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. But this rascal has no knowledge. The cows give us milk, very nutritious. "Oh, eat the whole cow. Then all nutrition will come." This is their intelligence. Rubbish civilization. Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow. Give protection, take milk from it, and prepare nice preparations, that will be good for brain, for your mind. Apart from... There is no question of religious sentiment. From practical.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what this studying of a dead man, the molecules? When a man is dead, what is the condition of the molecules?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The molecules will deteriorate to simple molecules. It will degrade from big, big molecules to small molecules. In other words, it tends to be simple. When the living entity is out of the material body, the body itself becomes very simple.

Prabhupāda: No varieties.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no variety.

Prabhupāda: That I explained.

Hari-śauri: The complexity is there because the spirit soul is complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Is it also—I don't know if this is speculation or not—but is it, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it also not possible, say, at the time of creation, now those material bodies are going to be created, also possible not to manifest all of them but some are not still manifested?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are created. What is the wrong there?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are created, but not all of them. Not all the bodies...

Prabhupāda: Why? Why not? If some of them can be created, why not all of them? If some of them can be created, all of them can be created. Why do you say some of them can be created, not all of them?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, all of them can be created, but according to the karma-phala, or action of the individual, so there may be some time to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The last devastation he died, but his karma-phala remained. So he has to appear in that form, begin his work.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Sense gratification is never helpful. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Sense gratification is required as far as..., as little as possible. Otherwise, not for sense gratification. Just like sleeping. Sleeping is required because this material body requires some rest. But not that we shall sleep twenty-four hours or twenty hours and enjoy, as in this country sometimes they enjoy sleeping. But sleeping is wasting time. So long we shall sleep we cannot do anything good work. Therefore it should be minimized. You cannot avoid sleeping altogether. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is called tapasya, or advancement of spiritual life. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. They're required. So long we have got this body, we require to eat something, we require to sleep sometimes, we require a little sense gratification, and we require defense. But it should be minimized, not increased. That is tapasya. In the human life this is possible, this is possible. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. One can conquer over these things, by practice.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization. (break)

Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, no matter what material body you have, by material nature given you, one of the most predominating features of material life is pain. I want to address myself to this question, because in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we frequently face this problem. We have the pain of, for example, if you do tapasya, that's a pain to deprive your body of sense gratification. If you don't have sleep, you have to force yourself. If you have sickness, mental disturbances, so many things, then there's the other kind of pain.

Prabhupāda: That is being explained, that we don't want to stop sleeping, but minimize it. That is being already explained. We don't say complete negation. No. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. Simply sleep as little as possible. Not that to take, just like in the Western countries, they take sleeping as enjoyment. Is it not?

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Just explain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Too fallen to follow the regulative principles is like saying a diseased man is too diseased to take medicine. So it's actually in our own self interest. We have to become enlightened, to understand what our real interest is. Yajña vai viṣṇu. Now we are thinking that our real interest is to gratify the senses. This is perishable. When we come to the understanding of ātmā, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then we understand that our real self interest is to follow these regulative principles. As Prabhupāda said, in the beginning it may be painful, undoubtedly, because we are, for so many lifetimes addicted to sense gratification, but gradually more and more ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), when the heart becomes cleansed from the dirty misidentification with this gross and subtle material body, gradually more and more it becomes favorable (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa says, "Be happy by this sacrifice." Therefore the sacrifice must be joy-producing, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Simply that because we're presently in diseased condition, it may appear to be displeasing. Prabhupāda gives the example of someone who has jaundice. In the jaundice state, when you take sugar it appears very bitter. The perception is very bitter. But everyone knows that sugar is sweet. So in the same way, the regulative principles are naturally painful for someone who is irregular. For.... Engaged in bodily identification of life. But gradually it becomes more and more pleasing.

Prabhupāda: Practical.

Devotee: When we have Kṛṣṇa conscious (indistinct) struggling for(indistinct). It has to be a struggle.

Prabhupāda: What is struggle? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance and take prasādam. (devotee cheers)

Prabhupāda: Is that struggle? You don't want to take it. Say that. Where is struggle? To take prasādam, nice prasādam, is struggle? (laughs)

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, without electric, without energy, it cannot work, but the thing itself is complicated.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask one question? If life is based on the desires of the living entities, and as you were mentioning that the material energy forms so many complex combinations, the material body is so complex, does that mean that the living entity is very much entangled?

Prabhupāda: If you analyze your body, so many complications. But without life it is all dead matter.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that is why we are concluding that matter, when it is associated with life, it is very complex.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Without matter, it is complex.

Rūpānuga: Without life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: I believe the spirit of life lives on totally in this marvelous planet earth, but I feel the spirit has to be carried and nurtured and improved in the body. So I feel we have to carry the bodies, the material bodies, to the other planets to allow the spiritualism to live there also.

Prabhupāda: That is in the material world. If you want to stay in the material, then you change the material body just suitable for a particular place, atmosphere. But we have got our spiritual body. That spiritual body, without any material covering, you can transfer to the spiritual world.

Bill Sauer: You believe you can transmit that to other planets?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to transfer, because we are giving up this body. So you must accept another body. So either in this planet or in other planets or as human being or less than human being... There are 8,400,000 types of body. You have to accept one of them according to your karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). How the next body is developed, that is depending on our work. If we work like demigod, then we go and get the body of demigod. And if we work like dog, then we get the body of a dog. Nature's. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu (BG 13.22). According to activity and association of the modes of material nature, we get, up and down, different varieties of body.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Anything within this material world will be all destroyed. But there is another nature, that is being described. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20).

Bill Sauer: But the spirit is manufactured in the body, is it not, sir?

Prabhupāda: Yes, spirit is, but there is a spiritual world also, where you don't require this material body, you remain in your spiritual body.

Bill Sauer: But if there is no bodies left, they are all burned up, there's no spiritual development.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, that is not the fact.

Bill Sauer: So you need to take the bodies somewhere so that... (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No, so long you are in the material world you need to take a material body, but if you are in your original spiritual body, then you remain in the spiritual world.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The material civilization is the jāgrati for the materialistic person. But those who are spiritually enlightened, they think that these persons are sleeping. They got the opportunity of understanding God, and without understanding God, they are simply busy with the material body and its comfort and working hard day and night, and missing the point. And whereas the materialistic persons, they see these Kṛṣṇa conscious people, Hare Kṛṣṇa people, they are wasting their time by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and they are doing nothing. Just the opposite business. These people are seeing the materialistic persons, they are sleeping, not enlightened to the spiritual life; and these materialistic persons, they are seeing that these people, under some fictitious idea, they are spoiling their life without enjoying material facilities. Just the opposite.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is very simple. Spiritual understanding, that is, I was speaking... This is beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Spiritual understanding is that I am not this body. (to devotee) You move it this way. This is spiritual understanding. So long I am under this bodily concept of life, that "I am this body," "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Christian," "I am white," "I am black" and so on, so on, these are all bodily concept of life. So long we keep ourself on this platform, then we are on the material platform. When we understand that "I am not this body..." That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Deha means this body, and dehī means the owner of the body. So unless we distinguish the owner of the body and the body, there is no spiritual knowledge. So long we identify with this body, that is material knowledge. And when we understand that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul, I have been entrapped by this body," that is spiritual knowledge.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Devotee is sick, and he also knows that this is the mercy of the Lord so he doesn't complain in its real sense but the material body is bound to suffer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...you are convinced that you are not this body then there is no suffering.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, that's the clue.

Prabhupāda: As you identify with the body, then you suffer. (break) ...body is damaged, you are not damaged, but because you have got attachment for the motor car, you suffer. (break) ...song by Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura, yāhā smṛti nāhi yār, saṁsāra-bandhana kahata. One who has forgotten that he is this body, he has no suffering. (break)

Devotee (1): Then, if Sanātana Gosvāmī had all those infections in his body, and Lord Caitanya embrace him, he felt so distressed and so lowly.

Prabhupāda: Hm, so (this) instructs us that even Sanātana Gosvāmī had to suffer. What you are nonsense. You should not be sorry for suffering. That is the instruction. Why you are trying to avoid suffering? That is the instruction.

Interview with Religious Editor Of the Associated Press -- July 16, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the ideal life.

Bali-mardana: That is the goal.

Prabhupāda: That is the goal. When the soul lives without this material body, that is his liberated life. Just like the criminal, he can live within the jail and without the jail. But he's thinking wrongly that without jail he cannot live. But his life without jail is real life.

Interviewer: That reflects the old, the Hindu view that...

Prabhupāda: Why you again bring Hindu view?

Interviewer: Or, the, at least the Eastern religious view, that to leave this life...

Prabhupāda: Why we are bringing Hindu and Muslim view?

Interviewer: Well, O.K., I take that back then. I take that back. Anyway, what you're saying is that this life is a jail and that really the goal is another life.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Conversation at House of Ksirodakasayi dasa -- July 25, 1976, London:
Prabhupāda: If you actually want to be not to be controlled by the laws of material nature, that you can do. That is possible. And that is possible simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa. So we are presenting this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a manufactured thing. We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured. There is no need, because things in perfection is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no need of manufacturing by fools and rascals. There is no need. Everything is there in perfection. Simply we have to accept it and apply it in practical life. Then our life will be successful. Simply we have to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is... Then jānāti tattvataḥ, anyone who is able to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: (BG 4.9) "Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body." At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that "We are free. We can do whatever we like." This is very dangerous civilization—no knowledge of the spiritual life, no knowledge how the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, no knowledge what is the future, no knowledge what is the goal of life.
Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha:

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."

Prabhupāda: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it, immediately accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain. By eating meat and intoxication they have lost their all human brain tissues. Such a condition. Still, some professors receiving and doing some applause. That is. Otherwise who is understanding? The brain is so dull in the modern world.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asaṅgo hy ayaṁ purusaḥ. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."

Prabhupāda: Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Stop further implication." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What is the next verse?

Jayatīrtha: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Prabhupāda: Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto.

Jayatīrtha Prabhupāda: Yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam...

Jayatīrtha: Yāvat kriyās tāvad idam mano vai karmātmakam yena śarīra-bandhaḥ

Prabhupāda: So long one will remain a karmī, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: Thank you very much for reading that. So can you explain to me just a bit more, if the soul is undying, does everybody's soul go to be with God when they die? Do you have a belief in a heaven or a hell?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If he's qualified, if he qualifies himself in this life to go back home, back to Godhead, then he can go. If he does not qualify himself, he gets another material body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. And according to his desire and karma, activities, the nature, laws of nature, gives him a body. Just like a man infects some disease and he develops that disease. Is it difficult to understand?

Mike Robinson: It's very difficult to understand all of it. Perhaps we can...

Prabhupāda: Now suppose somebody has infected some smallpox disease. After seven days it develops. What is that called, that period?

Mike Robinson: Incubation? Is that the word?

Prabhupāda: Ah, incubation, no, another technical, yes, that after some time, the disease comes. There is a technical name. Anyway, so you cannot avoid it. If you have infected some disease, it will develop by nature's law. It is not possible to avoid it. Similarly, during our this life, we are in association with different modes of material nature, and that will decide what kind of body we are going to get next life. That is strictly under the laws of nature. Everything is under the laws of nature. You have no control over it; you are completely dependent, but people, on account of dull brain, they think that they are free. They are not free.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: God says like that, that "Anyone who understands Me..." Because one cannot understand God with material speculation; that is not possible. When he comes onto the spiritual platform, then he gets the required brain to understand what is God, and if he understands God, what He is, then he does not get any more this material body, he goes back to home.

Mike Robinson: And then he is with God forever.

Prabhupāda: Then he lives eternally, he lives eternally, no more change of body.

Mike Robinson: I see. Now, we've had two readings from your scriptures. Where did these scriptures comes from? Can you explain that briefly?

Prabhupāda: This is coming from Vedic literature, which is eternal. That is also eternal. But when there is creation, this creation, material creation, anything, material creation.... Just like this microphone is a material creation. So how to deal with it, there is some literature. Is it not?

Morning Walk at Niavaran Park -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: So we analyze the material body is temporary, it's no good anyways, then if, even if someone says, "Well, it may be temporary, but in this life we can get something out of it," then we analyze that other people are taking that. The wife is taking that, the children are taking that.

Prabhupāda: No, we should first of all fix up what is our business. People have taken this, that to maintain the body, to maintain the family, to earn money and protect it, these have become their business. They do not know anything else. The whole world is going on on this platform. Nationwise, communitywise, and everything. Other countries have developed, now the Shah is trying to develop equally. But what is the aim of development? The same—motorcar and accident. That they do not know. "No. They have got motorcar. I must have motorcar." But what is the aim? Same aim. Meet accident and die. They do not know what is the aim of life. Na te viduḥ. They do not know it. Durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are thinking that by adjusting this material way of life they'll be happy, that's all. This is ignorance. The whole civilization is wrong because they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the fault. If they know the aim of life, then it is all right. You live comfortably.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Mr. Hamidi: Well, of course, it is very difficult to differentiate.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is difficult. Practically you do not know what is spiritual culture. That is a fact. So first of all, you must try to understand what is spiritual culture. Spiritual culture means... There are two things within our experience. Matter and spirit. So matter is this body, and spirit is the soul within the body. Without spirit, this material body has no value. That we experience every day. When a man is dead, we take it, now the body is useless, throw it away. Therefore the body is important so long the spirit soul is there. And that is spirit. And when we study that spirit soul, that is the beginning of spiritual culture. If you have no idea of what is that spirit, then there is no question of spiritual culture. With this body we cannot make any progress of spiritual culture. That is not possible. The body is matter. They're explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā. Bring Bhagavad-gītā. Antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ. So try to understand what is spirit, what is matter.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna:

antavanta ime dehā
nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ
anāśino 'prameyasya
tasmād yudhyasva bhārata
(BG 2.18)

"Translation: Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasureable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction; therefore, fight, O descendant of Bharata."

Prabhupāda: Only the material body is subject to destruction.

Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."

Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Upon the body for existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, the soul is dependent on the material body because he has no spiritual culture. Just like we Indians, we were under the British rule. So long there was no national movement, they remained dependent on the Britishers. But as soon as there was national movement they became independent. This is a crude example. Similarly, because we have no spiritual cultivation, we are dependent on this material body. Actually, the soul is not dependent on the body. It has become so under certain condition: because he's thinking that he is this body. They have been described as mūḍha. Mūḍha is an ass. Mūḍha means ass. So I do not know what it is here. In India the asses are kept by the washerman. The washerman loads tons of cloth on the back of the ass to take it to the waterside, and again he brings back to the washerman shop, and the washerman gives a morsel of grass, little, and he eats the grass and stands there to carry the tons of load, thinking that he's dependent on the washerman.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: "One who knows the transcendental nature of my appearance and activities does not upon leaving the body, take his birth again in this material world but attains my eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: So this is the process of becoming independent of the material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is the process. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how to make one independent of this material body. Any other questions? Bring my beads. (long pause) My question is whether you like to remain dependent on this material body. Hmm? If you can live spiritually independent, whether you should remain dependent on this material body and whether to remain dependent on this material body is happy or it is distress? What is your realization? To remain dependent on this material body, is it very good or is it troublesome, huh?

Peter: Suffering.

Prabhupāda: Suffering, very good. If you remain dependent on this material body, then suffering. So why don't you become independent? That is the next question.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Attachment maybe, that is not a very important thing. But if there is a process, how to become independent of this body, why should we not take it? That is intelligence. Just like a man suffering from illness, attachment or no attachment, he's now suffering from that illness, but he has put himself into hospitalization under some physician. So that process will cure him and he'll not suffer from this disease. That is the hope. Or that is the fact. Similarly, circumstantially, we may be dependent on this material body, but if there is a process how we can become independent of the body, why should we not take it? The same example, if a man is diseased, he's captured by the disease. Attachment or no attachment, it is difficult. But he must put himself under treatment so that he can be detached from it. That is intelligence. I am caught by the disease. So let me suffer without any treatment. That is not intelligence. I must take the process of treatment by which... That is explained there, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this treatment so that after giving up this body you'll not have any more material body. And as soon as you become free from this material body, there is no suffering. But as soon as you get a material body, you must suffer. So if there is way and means to avoid this material body, and remain in our original spiritual body, why should we not take it. That is intelligence. That is a very simple thing. Read it again.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So if there is some process to become independent of this material body, why should we not accept? What is the objection? If somebody's suffering from some disease and if there is process of curing it, why one should not take it? (long pause) So your friend's questions and answers are not coming?

Atreya Ṛṣi: They just came to listen, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, they must be satisfied. (long pause)

Atreya Ṛṣi: The young man who just came is Terry Graham. He'd come to see you two years ago when you were here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, jaya.

Atreya Ṛṣi: He's a journalist.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, I remember. He has got any questions?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Terry, do you have any questions?

Terry: I have a question about this particular age. The world seems to be dividing itself between two kinds of materialists, the one which pays lip service to spiritual precedents but really devotes itself to self-aggrandizement, and the other which establishes an atheistic doctrine in the name of moral struggle with that greedy self-aggrandizement. In fact this atheistic moral doctrine has now taken over virtually the entire Sinic world—China, Tibet, Indochina. Is there some way that, the question is, what is the cosmic purpose for this and how should one come to terms with this prevailing, this increasingly prevailing notion that justice can be established in a material state or a material dimension?

Prabhupāda: In the material world there cannot be any peace, justice, morality. It is not possible. You may try to make some adjustment, but it will never be possible. So, by their concocted imagination, they are thinking, "This way will be beneficial," but unless they come to the spiritual platform, there is no question of peace, prosperity, justice. It is not possible.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: We must understand the material platform. It is threefold miserable conditions. Just like we are trying to avoid some miserable condition, very insignificant—to get out of the disturbance created by the mosquitoes and the flies. We are trying our best, but still they are disturbing. Is it not? Still they find out some loopholes and go in to the room and disturb you. So you cannot avoid. Similarly, the disturbances of nature: the severe cold, scorching heat, how you can counteract it? Is it possible? Not possible. Adhyātmic, you may keep your body quite fit to your best knowledge, bit still there will be some trouble, sometimes coughing, sometimes mental equilibrium is lost, you don't feel nice. So these things will go on. Because we have got this material body, the material conditions must work. You cannot make any adjustments. That's not possible. (If) you have come to the spiritual platform independent of this material body, then there will be everything solved. On every surface (?). They can waste their time for making an adjustment, but that is not possible. I have given some example, that everyone is trying to become free from the material disturbances, but it is not possible. Nobody is free from material disturbance. That is not possible. So if you actually want freedom from material disturbances, you have to come to the spiritual platform and cultivate spiritual knowledge and be fixed up. Then your life is successful.
Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: That you concoct like that. In fact any such temperature will disturb you. That's a fact. You can think that if it would have been 100 degree, it would have been very nice, but that's not the fact. Either 110 degree or 100 degree, it is disturbance. Then how can you stop it? Anyone who wants to stop it, he's intelligent. And that is described here, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mam eti (BG 4.9). One has to understand this fundamentally, that so long I'll get this material body, I'll have to suffer. Maybe differences of degrees, but I will have to suffer. So my endeavor should be how to become independent of this material body. That is wanted. That is intelligence. Not to make a distinction of different degrees. Different degrees—one position, one man's food, another man's poison. The same degree. If you think that it is nice, another man will suffer. So suffering will continue. That is not possible (indistinct). It is the nature of material world, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Find out this verse. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam. This material world is full of miseries. That they do not understand. Miserable condition they are accepting as pleasing. That is called ignorant.
Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: ...but if there is no material activities, then you are not affected. This is possible. Just like an iron rod, you put into the fire. Gradually, it becomes warmer, warmer, and at last, when it is red hot, it is fire, no more iron. Similarly, even though we have got this material body, if we cultivate spiritual life, then the activities of the material body will stop automatically. Therefore it is no more material. The same example, the iron rod has become already fire. So you put it in the fire, and continue it, then you'll understand that it is no more iron rod, it is fire. Touch anywhere it will burn. You cannot say it is iron bar. Similarly, if you become spiritually enlightened, then the material activities will stop and then you'll be happy. (break) You'll feel, "Yes, I have got some food."

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: So your question is whether one can enter this kingdom of God with this body.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already explained—tyaktvā dehaṁ. Giving up this body, one can enter in the spiritual world. Viśate tad-anantaram—after death. By bhakti, when he's mature and he gives up this body, then he enters into the spiritual world. Tyaktvā deham, giving up this body. You cannot enter, although by devotional service the material activities of the body will stop, but you have to wait for the moment when this material body is no more existing, then with spiritual body you can enter. Tyaktvā deham, mām eti. Viśate tad-anantaram. Tad-anantaram after death. And if you have got little pinch of material attachment, then you'll have to accept another material body. So we have (to) come to the point that no more I want anything material. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). I am no more anyone's servant. I am neither American nor Iranian nor Indian nor Hindu nor Muslim, not this, not that, I'm simply servant of... That is my position. And so long I shall keep attachment for this designation, temporary... What is this Iranian, American, Indian? Say for few years. Because you have to change this body. Tyaktvā deham. Tathā dehāntaram. So after giving up this body, you have to accept another body. If I am in the next body I become a sparrow, then where is my conception of Iranian, Indian and Hindu, and Muslim? I am a sparrow. Jumping like sparrow, that's all. So these are designations, temporary designations. So one has to become free from these temporary designations. Then he's liberated. That is bhakti.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So this life should be utilized for purifying ourself from this designation. If you keep the designation then there is no possibility of purification. You'll get another designation. Now we are Indian or Iranian, next a sparrow or a crow or a tree or a demigod. Another designation. Just like the same, the child, a baby, on the lap of the mother, a baby, and another designation, boy, another designation young man, another designation, old man. But the spirit soul is the same. He's simply changing designations. So freedom means freedom from all these designations. I am spirit, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am spirit soul, my business is spiritual activity. So long we want to keep designation, you'll have to accept material body and suffer. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to educate people how to become free from designations. Therefore we accept from any group. If I think that he is under designation... But our business is to make him free from the designation. We therefore welcome anyone. He may come with designation, but if he lives with us, he follows our rules and regulations, he becomes free from designation. And this so-called designated religious system will not help us. If we keep ourself on the designated platform—I am American, I am Indian, I am Iranian, I am Hindu, I am Muslim, I am Christian, I am Buddhist—then we have to continue in that designation. There is no question of freedom. That requires tapasya. That designationless status is called brahma-bhūtaḥ.
Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Assurance is there. Kṛṣṇa says kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhakta... (BG 9.31). If you remain a pure devotee, you'll never fall down. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). These are assurances. If you simply try to understand what is Kṛṣṇa, why does He come, what are His activities. Janma karma ca me divyam (BG 4.9). Simply.... This is cultivation, to understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cultivation. And Kṛṣṇa assures: tyaktvā dehaṁ, you have to give up this body, but for a devotee giving up this body means no more accepting another body. And nondevotees giving up this body, tathā dehāntara prāptir, another body. That is the difference between devotee and nondevotee. One may say both of them are dying. Yes, they are dying, that's all right. They are not dying, nobody is dying, but changing the body. But a devotee's changing not to accept any more material body. The nondevotee's changing to accept another. That is the difference. And if you accept another body you will suffer, more or less, degrees. And if you don't accept material body then you become spiritually situated. Sac-cid-ānanda vigraha (Bs. 5.1), simply ānanda, eternally blissful. Very easy. So we should be intelligent enough that if by practicing in this one life I can get next eternal blissful life of knowledge, why shall I deviate? Even if there is some difficulty, let me tolerate, what is the difficulty? Caitanya Mahāprabhu has given so easy, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21). Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and everything will be done perfectly. So where is the difficulty? No difficulty. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not bluffed. He said kalau nāsty eva: the Kali-yuga you cannot do anything more. You do simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Because everything is God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. This is Vedic instruction. If you simply understand God, then you understand everything. Therefore God says janma karma ca me divyam evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). "If anyone understands Me factually, then, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9), then after giving up this body, he's not going to accept any more material body. He comes to Me." So simply try to understand God. And that is possible simply by chanting the holy name of God. Very easy. It doesn't matter. Either you are Iranian or Indian or, chant the name of, holy name of God. I think there should (not) be any objection for this movement. Eh? What do you think? That's all. We are simply pleading, "My dear sir, please chant the holy name of God." Who will have any objection? Nobody will have any. Do it. There is no confusion. If you are confused, chant the holy name of God, you'll be out of confusion. Tell them like that. Everyone should join with us and preach this cult. This is not a cult, this is a science, that you chant the holy name of God, that's all. You have seen that house? Dayānanda, no, was with you? Dayānanda?

Atreya Ṛṣi: It happened very quickly this time. We have been looking for a year, over a year. Many hundreds of houses we have seen. But this time, by your mercy, Śrīla Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: Why couldn't spirits grow without taking this body? Why couldn't spirits grow in the spiritual world without taking this material body.

Prabhupāda: You can go. It is your punishment. The material body... If one thinks in the prison house, "How one can live without prison house?" That is his misconception. Generally, one is expected to live outside the prison. But because that person is in the prison house since a long time, he cannot think that without prison house one can live; that is misconception. He has no idea of spiritual life, therefore he's thinking like that. Real business is how to get out of the prison. But he's thinking just the opposite way, that "If I do not remain in the prison, how can I eat?" A thief is thinking that "I'm living here very comfortably, without stealing. I'm getting food and shelter, and if I go outside I have to steal again." So it is good life? That is due to ignorance. There is very good life without the prison house. That he does not know. He does not know that there is a spiritual world where a spirit soul can live very comfortably, meeting God every day, talking with Him, dancing with Him. That he has no idea.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That tendency is here. Because we are very small fragment of spiritual identity, that tendency is there. The example is given, just like fire and spark of the fire. The fire and the spark, the spark is very small, but it is fire. And the big fire, together they look very beautiful. With the fire, when the sparks come-sput sput—so many sparks, it looks very beautiful. But the sparks sometimes fall down from the original fire. Then it is no more fire. It is fire, but it's extinguished. The illumination is over. So we are small particles of God. God is big fire; we are small particles of God. So we are playing with the big fire very nice, but there is chance of falling down. That chance is there. The big fire does not fall. The big fire is always blazing. But the small fire, although it is possessing the same quality of fire, it may fall down. So we are small particle, very, very small, atomic portion God. Therefore we have got the tendency to be separated from the big fire, and then we begin our material body. Just like another crude example, just like a very rich man's son, he's enjoying life. Sometimes he thinks, "Why not independently live? Why dependent of father?" He goes out and he becomes a hippie. There are many examples. He was living very comfortably, rich man's son, but he left the house of his father and became a hippie. There are many practical examples. Why does he do so? I have seen in Allahabad one big lawyer, very famous lawyer, Ferolal Bannerji. He had two sons. One son became a good barrister like him, and another son became a car-wala, driving a car. The reason was that this son, a car-wala, he fell in love with a low-class woman, and he preferred to remain a car-wala.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Nobody. Do you think your king, Shah, is also happy? No. His sons, daughter, they are happy? No. He is also anxious how to keep his position, exalted position, he has to makes many plans, satisfy so many ministers, so many. He is also full of anxiety. And a small bird eating some grain here, he's attracted for the grain, but he's looking this way, "Oh, here is a man, here is man, he may not do some harm to me." So everyone is full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have adopted this material life, asad, our mind should always be full of anxiety. Nobody can be free from anxiety. That is not possible. Sadā samudvigna dhiyam asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this temporary body, we have to be full of anxiety. This is law of nature. And if we act in this life to create another material body, then our all activities are spoiled. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. He did not ask about the constitutional position of himself, he simply engaged himself in dog's place(?). Then whatever activities he has done, it is simply defeat. Next body what he's going to get he does not know. If you become a minister in this life and next life you become a dog, then what is the benefit? Can anyone challenge this? "No, no, I'm not going to become a dog." Nobody can say. You are going to change the body—tatha dehāntara prāptir—now what kind of body you'll get, that will depend on nature, not on yourself. If you go to a tailor's shop, so you have to pay for if you want a better garment. Similarly, what kind of body you will get, that will depend on your work.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is their business. They want or they don't want, that's all. Two business. Because their mind is not fixed up, they have got two businesses—"don't do it," "do it." That's all. There is no third business. Two things—"do it," "don't do it." That's all. Sometimes accepting—"Do it"—and again rejecting, "No, no, don't do it." This is material world. "Do it" and "don't do it." And things are becoming implicated. Saṅkalpa-vikalpa. So he has to fix up his mind. "I have done so much 'don't do it' and 'do it.' Now I shall decide to do only what Kṛṣṇa says." Then his life is perfect. "I shall give up this business, 'don't do it' and 'do it.' But I'll simply do what Kṛṣṇa says." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Yes, now I'll do it. What You say, I'll do it." Then his life is perfect. Otherwise he'll continue, "don't do it," "do it," "don't do it," "do it," that's all. And Kṛṣṇa will give him sanction—"do it" and "don't do it." Unless he comes to the original consciousness, Kṛṣṇa has to give him sanction, "Yes, do it." "Yes, do not do it." What can be done? But He says, "Give up this business, 'don't do it' and 'do it.' Simply do what I say. Then you'll be happy." Unless we agree to that point, we have to continue this material life, life after life, and suffer. Material body means suffering. Either you get human body or animal body or tree body or any body, suffers.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:
Prabhupāda: So long one does not inquire about his spiritual position, he'll have to accept this material body and suffer. This is the law of nature. So therefore our business is how to stop accepting this material body. That is the, our... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). That is wanted. How to stop accepting this material body. So that is bhakti. Karma, jñāna, yoga, you'll have to accept material body. Maybe better body you may have. But better or bad, worse, whatever body you accept, you have to suffer.
Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was posing himself as the body. So he should not consider himself as a learned man. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Then?

Harikeśa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."

Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). So who is caring for this knowledge? Suppose I have got to... It is fact, we have to change this body. But what body I am going to change, who is considering? He's thinking of this body only, but he has to change.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Bandha.

Harikeśa: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance. Be it sinful or pious, karma has its resultant actions. If a person is engaged in any kind of karma, his mind is called karmātmaka, colored with fruitive activity. As long as the mind is impure, consciousness is unclear. And as long as one is absorbed in fruitive activity, he has to accept a material body."

Prabhupāda: That's all. By lābha-yoga (?) woman will become man and the man will become woman.

Indian Doctor: So long you are taking birth...

Prabhupāda: What action you have got? Before that the verse is,

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

So this body is temporary, but it is very miserable. That they do not understand.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That they do not understand. That as soon as you accept a material body, either a very rich man's body or poor man's body or any body, either brāhmaṇa's body or śūdra's body, to accept material body means undergo miseries.

Indian Doctor: But you have no choice to accept. By the will of God...

Prabhupāda: No, you have got... You can become free. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti...

Indian Doctor: Bhakti-avyabhicāriṇī. I have got that tendency, bhakti, avyabhicāriṇī-bhakti.

Prabhupāda: No, no, simply to know Kṛṣṇa. Māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena ya... So you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa without bhakti. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). So without bhakti there is no possibility to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then you'll become free from this process of accepting material body.

Conversation with Seven Ministers of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:
Prabhupāda: Material body means kleśa, suffering. Why you are using this fan? Because without fan the body will be in pain, painful condition. So we are adjusting, trying to counteract. But the position is miserable. Therefore whole plan of Vedic civilization—how to avoid this material body. That is called mokṣa. That is the plan. So Ṛṣabhadeva is advising that nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). People have become mad, and they're doing everything which is not sanctioned by the śāstra. Pramatta. Pramatta means mad. And why they have become mad? Indriya-prītaye, for sense gratification. There is no big hope. It is simply sense gratification. Sense gratification is there even in the animal life. So human life is not meant for sense gratification. That is also said in the śāstra.
Room Conversation with Endowments Commissioner of Andhra Pradesh -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Here is the first thing, that brahma-bhūtaḥ, Brahman realization. Then prasannātmā. He is no more under the material tribulation or anxiety. We are in anxiety on account of our material conception of life. Prahlāda Mahārāja said sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because we have accepted this asat body, material body, which will not exist, and we are concentrating our attention only on this body, therefore we are always anxious. Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt. On account of asat. So this is going on all over the world. Simply anxiety. They have created United Nations, but where is the United Nation? The people go there with anxiety, that's all. And come back again with anxiety. Because their asad-grahāt remains. The Indian is thinking, "I am Indian, this body." And the American is thinking, "I am American," and the Pakistani is thinking, "I am Pakistani." So asad-graha is there. So how the anxiety will go away? But they do not know this. There is no education. They want to keep him... "Feel always that you are Indian," "Feel always that you are American." "You feel always you are Hindu," "Feel always you are Muslim.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Fittest means who does not get next a material body. He is fit. He is fit. Because as soon as you get a material body...

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

They are mad, working day and night. Pramatta. And acting just adverse to his interest. So Ṛṣabhadeva says this is not good. You should know that he has already got a body for which he is suffering. Pritar yantra.(?) And again he is creating another body. By his karma he is creating another body. So as soon as you get a material body you'll have to suffer. Either you become a king or a dog. Because you have got this material body you have to suffer. Pritar yantra. So asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body will not exist. But still so long you'll exist in this body you'll suffer. But they have no brain how to solve this, although there is solution. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So paropakāra. So as you have become our life member, try to broadcast the philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. That is the meaning of membership. Everything is there.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: I'm going to Delhi.

Indian man: Most of your time you are in the States.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just now I am coming from Europe. States, Europe, then here.

Indian man: What is the method of attaining permanent and impermanent? Permanent ānanda?

Prabhupāda: That is spiritual life. When you are not enwrapped with this material body, then is ānanda.

Indian man: But that life itself is temporary and then...

Prabhupāda: No, that is not temporary. That is permanent. That is to stay with God. That is permanent.

Indian man: But you will do so only so long as you are in your body, is it not? After you leave the body then probably you might attain mokṣa for a temporary period.

Prabhupāda: No. That is impersonalism. And those who actually go to Godhead, they remain in their spiritual body.

Indian man: Between meditation and kīrtana, which is the easier and...

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana. Yes. Meditation means you'll think of your business and all sleep, snoring. That is meditation. (laughter) (end)

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: Then our object is to get rid of the birth. Birth and death. That we want to be eternal. From there you want to get rid of your birth and death. That is birth and death.

Prabhupāda: Birth and death you stop as soon as you give up this material body. Material body, the birth question comes of the material body. And death also material body. Therefore it is clearly said in the Bhagavad-gītā, na jāyate na mriyate vā.

Indian man: Yes, you are trying to do sādhanas to see what...

Prabhupāda: First of all, understand this, that the soul is never born, never dies. But we are seeing birth and death. What is that birth and death? It is of the body. But you are different from the body.

Indian man: Yes, I am different. My soul is different, the ātmā different from the body. That is the conclusion.

Prabhupāda: Birth and death applies to the body. Not to the soul.

Indian man: Yes. That, your karmas, you enjoy and suffer according to your karma.

Prabhupāda: That is body, all body.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You want to enjoy. Can you understand this? Everyone is trying to enjoy. So enjoy independently means that you don't care for... That is the fact. They don't care for God. So because they don't care for God, therefore they are punished: "You take care of your body." And as soon as you care for God, then there is no material body. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. So God, therefore, teaches us how to get out of this body.

Dr. Kneupper: That's the whole idea of mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Kneupper: Mokṣa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is. Mokṣa means to stay in your original body. And bondage means we want different types of enjoyment, so God gives us the facility: "All right. Enjoy." If I do not make any discrimination of food... As human being, we must have discrimination. But if you don't discriminate, then you get the body of a pig. You can eat even stool. If you want to eat meat unrestricted, you become a tiger. Nature will give you facility. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Dehāntara. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies. So according to your desire, you'll get a body. God will give you.

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: I can't think of any more major problems. I remember...

Prabhupāda: Problem... As long as you have got this material body you'll have problem.

Jagadīśa: One after another.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the best solution is to go back home, back to Godhead.

Jagadīśa: We have to convince them that they have problems because they think that they're enjoying.

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. Therefore they require education.

Jagadīśa: They don't know the real standard of enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: How they can know? There is no understanding. Mūḍha. (pause) To solve all these problems, therefore, there must be a class of men, brāhmaṇas. Not a class, a section of people must become brāhmaṇas. And all other sections should consult them and live as kṣatriyas, vaiśyas, śūdras. Then? It is finished now? No.

Jagadīśa: Well, we've solved all the problems.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: We've solved all the problems. Now we want to convince this Vinoda Bhave to support us?

Prabhupāda: Yes. So can you see what is the position, my quarters?

Hari-śauri: Well, Mūrti said your side is fit for moving into.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: (laughing) I am a small fly before yourself. You are the ocean. I am a drop.

Prabhupāda: No. You are not fly, you are experienced. Therefore I am trying to explain. Find out this verse. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Punar janma naiti. That is continuation of life. Tyaktvā, everyone has to give up this body. And one who gives up this body but does not accept another material body, he has no more birth and death. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). You have to find out this. Read it.

Girirāja:

janma karma ca me divyam
evaṁ yo vetti tattvataḥ
tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma
naiti mām eti so 'rjuna
(BG 4.9)

"One who knows the transcendental nature of My appearance and activities does not upon leaving this body, take his birth again in this material world, but attains My eternal abode, O Arjuna."

Prabhupāda: Very simple thing, that you are part and parcel of God. God is eternal. So if you understand God, then you become eternal. Just like your father is very rich man, but you have left your father. You are loitering in the street. But as soon as you understand your father, "Oh, I am the son of such and such person. He is so rich! Oh, I haven't got any necessity." Then you become rich. Go back home, back to Godhead. Mām eti. "He comes to Me." Someone is there. You must know your father, and you must go back to father. Then there is no question of suffering. Very simple thing.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is already liberated. When one understands Kṛṣṇa properly. Then.

Girirāja: "And therefore he returns to the kingdom of God immediately after quitting this present material body."

Prabhupāda: That return to God is eternal. Suppose I am your guest here, so you may provide me for some days, but I cannot expect that you can provide me for all the days. That is my mistake. But if you go to your father's house, there is no question of. He takes. That is the required. Go to your father. Mām eti. Therefore this is the way of eternity, that you understand who is your father and you go back to Him. Then his life is successful. And who is the father?

Indian man: (laughing) Not the body.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Not body. It is in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out this verse. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ, tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. He is the father.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: The more you're engrossed in material things the more anxiety you are in...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Because he has accepted something which is asat... Asat means which will not endure, such things, on account of this, he is always full of anxieties. Asat, this body is asat. Asad-grahāt. Because we have accepted this material body, we must be always full of anxieties. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Although this body is temporary, still so long the body is there, we will suffer. Kleśada, kleśada means always giving trouble. This trouble, that trouble, this trouble, that trouble.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya
māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): That bhakti is a tapa itself. That bhakti is amongst the tapas.

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhakti means tapasya. Just like they are in the bhakti line. They are doing tapasya. They are rising early in the morning, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, observing maṅgala-ārati, no meat-eating, no illicit sex, no intoxication, so many things. It is tapasya. Whole thing is tapasya, tapaḥ, because by this tapasya the contamination of the soul will be cured. Then, if he understands Kṛṣṇa, then he is transferred to the spiritual world. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). He does not come again to accept the material body, and he permanently lives in the spiritual world. That is perfection. The modern civilization, they do not know all these things. They are misguiding that "You earn to your best extent. Work very hard like hogs." And there is advertisement "Work hard. The next (?)." They are pulling one trailer, rickshaw, still, their leaders are advising, "Work hard. Work still more hard." A human being is pulling on trailer and rickshaw, and still hard work. And that rascal does not know that this hard work like hogs and dogs will not make the solution. But they are enthusing, "Yes, work hard. Be stout and strong, as if becoming stout and strong will save him. That's not possible.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the real civilization. Soul is enwrapped with this material body and it has to be stopped. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). That is civilization. And he has no knowledge, na te viduḥ, what is the civilization. Then andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). The rascal leader is also blind and the followers are blind, so both of them are doomed. Therefore the conclusion is, the modern civilization is misguided. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. Big, big leaders, they promises big, big ideal that "I shall give you this facility. Just elect me." What facility he will give? No facility. He gives some false promise and gets his election and claps. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He does not know what is the aim of life. Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. He is animal also. And the other animals clapping, "Oh, we have got such a big leader." Big elephant, yes. (laughter) And elephant he may be, but he is, after all, a animal. What he'll do? Misguided. Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. You don't require any covering?

Guest (2): No, I do, but...

Guest (1): (Hindi) My daughter.

Prabhupāda: I have not seen him?

Guest (1): He used to come.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Soul. Spiritual body is now covered with the material body. So anything material, that will not exist. So body is finished; then he has to find new body. Just like the dress is old; it is finished, you take another dress. And when you haven't got to take dress, or this material body, and you remain in your spiritual body, that is called mukti. That can be achieved only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). Mad-yājino 'pi yānti mām (BG 9.25). If you practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness then it is possible; otherwise not. Tyaktvā deham. Everyone has to give up because this body will be old, and one has to give it up. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9), he doesn't accept any more material body. Then? What does he...? He's finished? No, he's not finished. Mām eti. He becomes eligible to go back home back to Godhead, and there he dances with Kṛṣṇa. That is real mukti. Muktir hitvā anyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Anyathā rūpam. Now this rūpa is not spiritual, it is material. And mukti means when he gives up this material body and no more accepts any material body, he is transferred to the spiritual world to play with Kṛṣṇa, to dance with Kṛṣṇa, to talk with Kṛṣṇa. That is real... Paramaṁ siddhi. Mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). (break) And so long one is the material things, he... The lowest stage is the karmīs, the little higher stage, jñānī, and little higher stage, yogi. And the highest stage? Bhakti-yogī.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone must make mistake because a conditioned soul are liable to four defects. One of them is to commit mistake. One of them is to become illusioned. One of them, he is a cheater. And one of them, his senses are imperfect. So every conditioned soul who has got this material body, he is defective in these four things. Therefore he has to take knowledge from a person who has no defects. Then his knowledge will be perfect. Just like a small child, he is defective, but he receives the knowledge from the father: "This is called pencil." A child does not know what it is, but the father says, "My dear child, it is pencil." And if he says, "It is pencil," then it is correct, although he's a child, because he has received the knowledge from the person who knows it.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: Just like Arjuna learned Bhagavad-gītā from Kṛṣṇa. He submitted, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). So in that attitude... But pariprasna, counter-inquiry is allowed. Just like good logician, good scientist, one can... That answer is there. But if one inquires as a blind person, keeping her faith or his faith in something differently, then it is as useless. It must be flexible to the level of logic and science. Then it is very easy. That is like I explained. Kṛṣṇa said, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So where is the difficulty? I am changing my body. So why I shall not get another body after my death? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). And wherefrom this knowledge is coming? From Kṛṣṇa, the supreme authority. In the beginning I may not understand, but it is a fact. If you think over, you'll understand, "Yes, I am eternal. Why I am put into this difficulty, changing this body?" This is common sense. "Why I shall die? Why not stop death?" That is knowledge. That is knowledge. But then going on, (Hindi): "Everyone dies. I will die. What is that?" But why you shall die? You live. And Kṛṣṇa gives the formula. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Take this process. This body is material; you have to give it up. But no more material body.
Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible. So these things should be... Because the Kali-yuga, the more it advances, people will be suffering in so many ways. And the only solace is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, only solution. If one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he (she) doesn't require husband. He (she) does not require. He... She knows that "Kṛṣṇa is my protector. Why shall I artificially seek after father or...?" And what protection, for a few days either the father or the son or the husband may give? Real protection is Kṛṣṇa. This is temporary, but because we have got this material body we require some. In this way... And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and mixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is... You... You have been taught that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that—avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11)—that "Kṛṣṇa may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." They won't believe a word of Kṛṣṇa, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gītā and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life—you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Why? If sex if not there in God, then how it comes? If God created everything, so God did not create sex?

Rāmeśvara: They think it means we are saying God has a material body, because they associate sex with material body.

Prabhupāda: Material body has no sex. A dead man does not enjoy sex. Do you think that a dead man enjoys sex? Suppose a beautiful girl-dead. Will you accept for sex? Then why do you take that sex is for the body? (train noises) "Sex if for the material body" is not the fact. When the soul is not there, where is sex?

Rāmeśvara: They consider sex to be his lower nature, animal nature.

Prabhupāda: No. Everything is..., becomes animal nature when it is perverted, when it is contaminated.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Yes, we have to do it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Human life is denied the advantage of this life. Hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. Simply wasting time by sense gratification, for sense gratification. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛnoti na sādhu manye... (SB 5.5.4). "Oh, this is not civilization." Yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ: "You are going to get again body. You are suffering so much still. That's your plan? Who is happy who has got a material body? Who is happy? Find out. And still, you are going to get another material body? Is that civilization?" Na sādhu manye. "It is not good. Don't work hard for getting another body." This is Vedic civilization. Na sādhu manye: "Oh, it is not good." Sādhu means good. "Why it is not? We are enjoying." Not enjoying. You are going to get another body. "So what is the harm if I get one more body?" Now, kleśada: "You'll simply suffer as soon as you get body." Kleśada. More material body means kleśada, to be prepared for suffering. That they do not know. They are thinking, "enjoying." This is māyā. He's preparing for another suffering condition and he's thinking, "I am enjoying." This is...

Gurukṛpa: Māyā.

Prabhupāda: This is māyā, what is not. He has to work for not to get any more material body, but he's working for that. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Ah! That is... That we should admit. That is... That is intelligence. Therefore we should try for relief if there is actually any relief. That relief is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Now, whatever suffering's there, up to this point... Next you are not going to accept this material body. And that is solution. Mām eti. As soon as you go back to home, everything is solved. That we have to establish. We are not presenting all rascaldom. Here is the solution, that "This life, whatever you are suffering or enjoying, that is temporary. Āgamāpāyinaḥ. It comes and goes. Don't bother. Be Kṛṣṇa conscious and solve all the problems." This is our point.

Pṛthu-putra: But if they accept, do we have program?

Prabhupāda: If they accept, let them suffer. But our propaganda is "You accept it."

Pṛthu-putra: But if they accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness, do we have program to dovetail the propensities of being scientists or politicians? If, for example, they accept to understand Kṛṣṇa and they accept from Kṛṣṇa conscious...

Prabhupāda: Then we do not bother about the scientist.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

As soon as he separated from Kṛṣṇa to become independent, that is māyā. He has, loses all value, spiritual value. And in connection with māyā, it appears in different forms. And, the example is given, as the moon reflected in the water and when the water is agitated, it is sometimes round, sometimes straight, sometimes broken, sometimes..., like that... So we are eternal spirit soul. As soon as we come in contact with māyā, by agitation of the mind we assume different forms of life—and suffer. Hañā māyāra dāsa kari' nānā abhilāṣa. And that abhilāṣa is the agitation. The same example, that, is given. Moon is sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes broken, sometimes... It is nothing. It is neither broken, neither round, nor... It is. It is as it is. But on account of agitation of the material body, it appears sometimes demigod, sometimes man, sometimes hog, sometimes cat-change, change of the body, 8,400,000 different change. (aside:) You can keep it there. Can keep it. All right. We have to stop this change, and that is the mission of human life: no more cat, no more dog, no more demigod, but eternally servitor of Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boys, and gopīs, or whatever you like. As trees, as calves, as cows, as Yamunā water, as Vṛndāvana-bhūmi—everything spiritual. Enjoy. Somebody's enjoying spiritual happiness by becoming Yamunā water. Somebody's enjoying as flower of Vṛndāvana, somebody as calf, somebody as cow, somebody as father, as mother, as friend, as conjugal friend, gopīs—all concentrated in Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes in their propaganda these deprogrammers they complain about our sannyāsīs the most. They say, "Because they are saying everything in the material world is evil, so therefore they are the worst."

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is worst. Because I am spirit soul, I am now imprisoned with this material body. It is my unnatural state, and I am eternal, and because I have accepted this material body I have to undergo birth, death, old age and disease. So that is my effort, how to get out of this material body and remain in my original spiritual identity. That is our whole propaganda. We think material atmosphere is our imprisonment, suffering. Material body means suffering. Otherwise I am eternal, blissful, full with knowledge. That is my position. But because I have been impact... (aside:) Again you have the same disease. Attention, you attend, draw there. Don't do that. Very bad habit. Immediately you sit down, you do it. You cannot check it. So actually this is our punishment. This is māyā. That example I have explained this morning, very nice verse, that the moon in the sky is reflected in the water, in hundreds of pots of water, and the wind is agitating the water, and the moon is also agitated—sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes... The moon is fixed up, but the reflection in the pot making him different.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gītā, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:
Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible. What to..., you are prosecuting? If you kill us, we shall not. We have taken this daṇḍa. This is our determination. You cannot stop us. That's it. "Because we know this is the only welfare activity to the human society. You make talk, madmen. We don't care for it. To be imprisoned with this material body—the greatest suffering... You are trying to mitigate suffering, temporary, this way and that, but you do not know how." That you can show from the Bhagavad... Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānu... (BG 13.9). "This is real suffering. Why the eternal soul should be subjected to birth, death, old age and disease? We are seeing to this. You are thinking that 'If I can place myself in a very high skyscraper building and motorcar,' your business is finished. We are not so fool. We know that 'Any moment, I shall be kicked out of the skyscraper building and motorcar by the laws of nature.' " That's a fact. But fools cannot understand. They think, "This is my permanent..." That is not permanent, but you are permanent. "Where is my permanent situation?"—we are seeking after that. So we are not so fools. We are taking that "I am permanent. Why I should be encapped or entangled in this nonpermanent." This is our philosophy.
Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is the difference. "Your brain is so filled with stool that you do not know how much sinful activities you are..., and how much you are becoming entangled in this material body. You are killing the child. You have to become his child again, or you have to become again a child and you will be killed. And then you will enter another mother's body; you'll be again killed. As many child you have killed, you'll have to be killed so many times. You'll never see the light. In the womb, womb, womb, you'll be killed. So your brain is so filled up with stool, you cannot understand. This is your education. This is you education. We are trying to save you, that 'You'll suffer so much. You've made the situation so complicated. Better remain a brahmacārī.' If there is little trouble without sex enjoyment, take it just like itching. Itching trouble, if you don't itch, it will not increase. And if you itch, more and more it will increase.' That is advised. Kaṇḍūtivan manasijaṁ viṣaheta dhīraḥ. One who knows, one who has got brain, 'All right, let me suffer little itching. I'll not itch it.' It will...This is intelligence. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). The suffering from the itching sensation by brahmacārī, that is recommended in our śāstra. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some trouble. 'So I am feeling itching. I don't itch it. It is little troublesome, little. Never mind, I shall tolerate it.'

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Conflict?

Devotee: Conflict between the soul and the material body.

Prabhupāda: There is no conflict. I am saying, talking, that you are, you are taking care of this dress. That's good. But simply for taking care of the dress if you forget yourself, then you are a foolish. That is my point.

Guest (2): But there is no conflict.

Prabhupāda: There is no conflict.

Guest (2): Then we should not be afraid of this body also.

Prabhupāda: But people are interested with the dress only. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Suppose you are driving one car. You are driving one car, and the car is also important, but you are not the car. But if you think that you are car, then you are a foolish. You have to take care of the car so far because it is plying, it is giving you service. You must keep in order very cleanse. That's very nice. But if you simply absorb in the service of the car, you don't take care of yourself.

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Paropakāra. They have got this opportunity how to get out of this entanglement of being covered by the material body, and they are not being given the chance. And we are giving the chance so easy. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... (CC Antya 20.12). Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni, the same thing. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni. This repetition of birth and death, it is the blazing fire of material existence. So when one understands that "What is my position?" then he'll do this, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam, clear understanding, "Oh..." What is this nonsense nationality? Today I am Indian; tomorrow I am a dog. Where is my nation? Where is my family? Where is my father? Where is my mother? So to become mad after these things is my business, or to get out of this material entanglement is my business? And we have got so much facilities. Kṛṣṇa is instructing, Himself. Caitanya Mahāprabhu is teaching personally how to live. And we are not taking advantage? What a suicidal policy. And they are becoming leader, Jayapataka Narayan and this... What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: Have Muslims taken to this movement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Many. One professor, Dr. Amja,(?) he is my disciple, I gave him name Rāma-rañjana. They are Muslim. It is philosophy, science. It is not meant for a particular caste or creed or nation. No. Rather, to accept this creed or accept this process, one is required first to give up this designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is nirmala. So long we are covered by this material body, we are not nirmala; we are polluted. So one has to give up this designation, bodily concept of life. Tanu-māninā. These words are given. Tanu-māninā. So long one is continuing in the bodily concept of life, it is sinful life, in comparison. This we have to give up, in order to come to the transcendental position. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam. Nirmala (CC Madhya 19.170).

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So I am also. So all these ministers, they invited me. They are in Hyderabad. I was in the house of Mr. Raju, the Endowment Minister. So they were very friendly. In Hyderabad, all the big, big government commissioners, the chief minister, they came in the opening ceremony of our temple. So it is fortunate that you were in Russia. So our humble attempt is to distribute the sublime knowledge of India. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Actually, outside India, there is no knowledge. Plainly speaking, their knowledge is as good as animals. Because in the śāstra it is said—and it is fact; either you refer to the śāstra or not, it is common sense-

yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
(SB 10.84.13)

Go means, cow and khara means ass. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. This body, bag of kapha-pitta-vāyu, if one thinks that "I am this body," then he is a go-khara. So this bodily concept of life is going on all over the world. "I am Russian," "I am German," "I am Englishman," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this," "I am that." But India, especially Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa opens His mouth to speak, His first instruction is that "You are not this body." Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Asmin dehe. This material body... Within this body, there is dehī, the owner of the body.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Vairāgya... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says clearly that niṣkiñcanasya bhagavad-bhajanonmukhasya. The bhagavad-bhajana, to become devotee of the Lord, means he's disgusted with this material world. For him, bhagavad-bhajana. Just like if I become disgusted with something, I require some change, similarly, bhagavad-bhajana is for him who is absolutely disgusted with this material world. And anyone who has got little interest in material enjoyment, he's not fit for bhagavad-bhajana. He'll have to accept again this material body, either he becomes Brahmā or becomes an ant in the stool, according to his karma. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur deha-upapattaye (SB 3.31.1). He'll have to develop certain type of body according to his desire of enjoyment. This is nature's law. Then where is the question of going back to home, back to Godhead? Why so many varieties of life? There is Brahmā, and there is ant in the stool. So vairāgya-vidyā-nija... Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ (SB 1.2.7), janayaty āśu vairāgyam. And vairāgyam means jñānam ca. When one is in full knowledge that "To remain in this material world is useless for me"—jñānam—"I am simply wasting my time by repetition of birth and death," then he can have vairāgya. "Stop this!"

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You understand first of all. Whatever the rascal father was teaching, he was refusing. That is the quarrel between the father and the son.

Indian man (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, what is the responsibility of some person towards the father who has given the material body to him?

Prabhupāda: Oh, don't try to understand in a minute. You read all these books. But attentively, if the child has form, the father must have form. There is no doubt of it. And what is that form? That you have to understand. And his question, the father was a demon, but the child was not demon because he refused to follow that demon father. That was his only fault.

Indian man (3): Prabhupāda, if I am allowed, I could just say what Guru Nanak said. He said (Hindi). He said, "Lord Father does not have the cycle of birth." Therefore, I mean...

Prabhupāda: So (Hindi).

Indian man (3): My interpretation...

Prabhupāda: Then why interpretation? (Hindi) Na jāyate na mriyate vā. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) (pause)

British devotee: Should we stop now, Śrīla Prabhupāda? It's quarter to seven.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of compassionate. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. You are in a normal stage. Śocati. Compassion is also śocati: "Oh, this man is poor. I'll help him." That is śocati. That brahma-bhūtaḥ, na śocati na kāṅkṣati. That is really... Where is compassion? He has taken this material body. He has to suffer. What is, your compassion will help him?

Indian woman (5): But it seems to come...

Prabhupāda: That first of all you understand. You have to die. If I think, "Oh, you should not die," so what my, this compassion will help you? You have to die. Then what is the use of this compassion? If you give him something that he will not die, that is real compassion. Suppose if there is a boil here, I am suffering, and you come, "Oh, you are suffering?" is that compassion?

Indian woman (5): But you feel a pain also in your...

Prabhupāda: You feel, but what is the meaning of that feeling? You cannot do anything.

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: "Let me remain Your servant janmani janmani." Mukti means no more janma. So He doesn't want even mukti. Bhukti-mukti-siddhi. For a devotee, either this life or next life, the business is the same, to serve Kṛṣṇa. So this verse, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma... (SB 5.5.4). People are mad after sense gratification in different ways, so Ṛṣabhadeva says, "No, no, no, this is not good. You have already obtained a material body as a result of your past karma, and you are suffering." Body means suffering. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). "So you have already got this body, and you are suffering. You are again trying to get another body?" Na sādhu manye: "This is not good." Our whole Vedic civilization is punar janma jayāya, to conquer over punar janma. And here Kṛṣṇa gives the very simple formula, janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti (BG 4.9). If we simply understand what is Kṛṣṇa... And what is Kṛṣṇa, for that purpose, we are writing so many books. The scholars, they are appreciating. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is available very easily. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). But if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, then we have got so many books. You can read and try to understand Kṛṣṇa. And when you understand kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28), then your life is successful. And karmīs are warned, na sādhu manye: "This sense gratification is not good."
Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Don't talk. Why you are talking? So our real trouble is that we have become conditioned by the material identification, "I am this body." Everyone is thinking, "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am sannyāsī," everything, identification with the body. That is the dirty thing. So one has to purify, that "I am neither American, neither Indian, nor brāhmaṇa, or so many designations." Then it is called cleansing the heart. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). That is mukti, when you don't identify with this material body. And so long you identify with this material body, either you become a sannyāsī with some beard or a gṛhastha without some beard, the same thing, identifying with the body. So ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12) means to become free from the bodily designation. And śāstra says, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). This body is composition of three dhātu, kapha, pitta, vāyu, according to Āyur Veda; and according to medical science, it is skin and then muscle, blood, bone, and marrow, stool, urine, those, combination. So I am not this combination of stool, bone, skin, blood. But people are taking that. When they are diseased, they take care of the body. Of course, it is not that we should not take care. But that is superficial. Real care should be taken of the soul within the body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe (BG 2.13). Dehinaḥ, dehī. Dehinaḥ and deha.

Evening Darsana -- May 13, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: So without this faith, nobody can achieve the association of Kṛṣṇa. There are two things. You become associate of Kṛṣṇa, or you become associate of this material world. So if you do not become associate of Kṛṣṇa, then the next step is this association of material world. And association of material world means accepting one type of body and enjoy or suffer for some time; then you get another body. Mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartmani (BG 9.3). Now we have to make our choice, whether you want to stop this material way of life and attain the eternal spiritual life...

mām upetya punar janma
duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam
nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ
saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ
(BG 8.15)

If you get the association of Kṛṣṇa, then you haven't got to come here, this material world. Duḥkhālayam. Kṛṣṇa says it is duḥkhālayam. Either you take birth in a very rich, aristocratic family, born in the upper planetary system as demigods-Brahmā, Indra, Candra, like that—or you take your birth, an insignificant ant; wherever you are in material body, it is duḥkhālayam. That you cannot avoid. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). And you cannot make any compromise that "Never mind it is very much miserable. I shall enjoy."

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and... So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that "God has no leg, no hand," that... In the Upaniṣad it said that "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha-mūḍha means rascal-rascal thinks that "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Because they cannot understand—they cannot make distinction what is spiritual, what is material-therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. First of all one has to understand what is material, what is spiritual. So unless one comes to the spiritual understanding, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Siddhaye means "for spiritual understanding." And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). So yatatām api siddhānām. Even the jñānīs, they are supposed to be siddha, and they also miss the point, that "The Supreme has no material body, so only negation." No. There is positive body. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). Although he has knowledge, still, his knowledge is not purified.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...material body. So as soon as there is material attraction, the village organization will not stand because the other material attraction is industry. So because he's materially attracted, he'll say that "If I do industry, I get hundred rupees. Why shall I plow for five rupees?" That simply they do not know. Gandhi's plan failed there. If materially they are after material enjoyment, so if he gets hundred rupees, he thinks that "I will enjoy more. Why shall I be sticking to the service?" Then the village program will fail. They will go for the hundred rupees. That civilization they do not know. After all, they are all rascals. They won't take lesson from us or from the Vedic culture. Therefore it is failure.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Solve this problem. And don't be poverty-stricken. That's all. That is happiness. There is no need of... So we, the members of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are living hundred times happily than anyone else, hundred times. They cannot dream. They are envious. In Los Angeles the neighborhood men, they're envious, that "These people, these devotees, they do not do anything, and they are living so comfortably—so many cars, nice palace, nice food." They inquire. They do not know. Don't expect in that way happiness. That is futile, that "Our father will leave lakhs of rupees and we shall get the interest and enjoy and then drink and go on." That is not happiness. Work hard how to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy in this way. Kṛṣṇa will give. And yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham. Teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (BG 9.22). He knows what is your need. Depend on Kṛṣṇa, but don't sit down like lazy. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). This is instruction. We are trying to teach the whole world that "Be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and keep your status quo very nicely without any being poverty-stricken, and that is happiness." That is happiness. And so far the bodily disadvantages, so as soon as you get this material body, you'll have to... You have to die. You have to suffer from disease. You have to take birth. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you see it? Look at the pandal they had.

Prabhupāda: They have got a new barrack... Festival.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Festivity. Here's Tulasī dāsa doing the fire yajña. Should I read you his letter now?

Prabhupāda: Very good news. Now can see. This material body may remain or not remain. This movement will push on.(?) That is wanted. Where is such thing throughout the whole world? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There aren't, except in our temples. He says, "By Kṛṣṇa's grace the most wonderful Janmāṣṭamī celebration was held at the big farm āśrama in South Africa.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Purport: "Factually the devotional service of the Lord is described in Vedānta-sūtra, but the Māyāvādī philosophers, the Śaṅkarites, prepared a commentary known as Śārīraka-bhāṣya, in which the transcendental form of the Lord is denied. The Māyāvādī philosophers think that the living entity is identical with the Supreme Soul, Brahman. Their commentaries on Vedānta-sūtra are completely opposed to the principle of devotional service. Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore warns us to avoid these commentaries. If one indulges in hearing the Śaṅkarite Śārīraka-bhāṣya, he will certainly be bereft of all real knowledge. The ambitious Māyāvādī philosophers desire to merge into the existence of the Lord, and this may be accepted as sāyujya-mukti. However, this form of mukti means denying one's individual existence. In other words, it is a kind of spiritual suicide. This is absolutely opposed to the philosophy of bhakti-yoga. Bhakti-yoga offers immortality to the individual conditioned soul. If one follows the Māyāvādī philosophy, he misses his opportunity to become immortal after giving up the material body. The immortality of the individual person is the highest perfectional stage a living entity can attain."

Prabhupāda: Who were..., was present all through in the meeting?

Akṣayānanda: Rāma-Kṛṣṇa Bajaj was there. Śrīmān Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, you were there?

Akṣayānanda: I was there.

Page Title:Material bodies (Conv. 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Mayapur
Created:07 of Oct, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=106, Let=0
No. of Quotes:106