Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when the Paramātmā and the jīvātmā are within the same material living body, so the...
Prabhupāda: Paramātmā is not material body. Paramātmā's energy. Just like heat and light is the energy of the sun. The sun is not feeling heat and light. For him, everything is all right. There is no heat in the sun, body of the sun. He doesn't feel any heat. You are feeling heat. Similarly, for Paramātmā there is no such thing: this is material, this is spiritual. Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). We hear that He has got different energies. His energy is one. Viṣṇu-śaktiḥ parā. That is spiritual only. Just like sunshine. That is sunshine. Now we are seeing it is covered with cloud. It is our imperfectness. But there, in the sun, there is no such thing cloud. Experience, practical experience. The sun is not experiencing cloud, although there is cloud. We are experiencing. Similarly, this matter and spirit is for us, not for Him. He, either He comes in so-called material body or spiritual body it is the same. It is the same. For Him it is like that, the same, because it is His energy. He can turn matter into spirit, spirit into matter. That He can do.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So making these houses, temporary houses, is directed by Him.
Prabhupāda: No. Directed by māyā. Prakṛteḥ, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Is it dry or wet? (the ground)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not very wet, just a little wet.
Prabhupāda: He has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am head of the institution. I have nothing to do. I say, "Karandhara, do it." Immediately does. I say you, do it, immediately... I say him. I have got so many secretaries. I will ask him. Similarly, why God will create.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a direction.
Prabhupāda: Direction, yes. That is said, mayādhyakṣena prakṛtiḥ: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction." So if it is possible for a common man like me, how much it is possible for God? That we have to understand. Now I want to go to India, London. Now everything arrangement is made. I can go immediately. So similarly, if God wants to do something, why He has to do something? Everything, as soon as He desires, everything is there. He wants "Let there be material creation." There is, immediately. This is God. We are thinking in my terms. "Oh, such a huge universe! How a person can create? Where he got this tool? Where he's got the hammer? And how he constructed it?" I am thinking like that. Because I am limited, I am thinking in my limited way. So I am denying, "There is no God." Therefore we have to first of all understand acintya, inconceivable power. Then we can understand God. If I think, "God may be..." That kūpa-maṇḍūka, that frog is thinking, "It may be little bigger than this, little bigger than this." So how you can understand Atlantic Ocean within the well? So these rascals are all frogs. So they are thinking in their own terms, God. And because they cannot accommodate, "There is no God, finish." The same example: the rabbit, "Close the eyes, there is no danger." Finish. That's it. They are no better than the rabbits, these so-called scientists. Closing the eyes, there is no God. You have to smash them by their, Tora lati na, tor śilā torna amora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Tor śilā?
Prabhupāda: Śilā you know?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah, huh.
Prabhupāda: And nora means mortar and what is called, pestle? So it is your śilā nora. I take it and break your teeth. (laughter) So take their, this jugglery of words and break their teeth. That should be the policy. "These molecules and this and that," so many words. You have to simply catch their words, and with their words kill them. That is intelligence. We are saying plainly. You say with these words which is their sona, mortar and pestle, and break their teeth. That's all. Tora śilā tora nora tora bāṇi dāntera gora.(?) This policy should be adopted. Otherwise, we know they are rascals. But if I say, rascal, people will say, "You are not a scientific man, how you can say he is rascal?" "Therefore I am flattering you that otherwise..." You haven't got to convince me, that (he's a) rascal. I know that he is a rascal. Now, because we have to prove that he is a rascal to another rascal, we have to take your help. This is our policy. Otherwise, so far we are concerned, if they go on lecturing for millions of years, we shall kick on their face. You should know he is mistaken. Let the rascal speak whatever he likes. We know the conclusion.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in trying to make a house, we need certain materials to build the house.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Materials are already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So similarly when the living entities, when they come down to the material platform...
Prabhupāda: Material is already there. Just like what you are manufacturing. You are... Already everything is there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the chemists or the scientists, what they're thinking is, there are chemical elements, which are the materials necessary for staying the spirit soul within the..., so long as he is within the material world. So they're saying that these material elements—carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen—the main elements, somehow they combine together forming the living units, but our point is the chemicals are there, but in order to start the real nice house, the spirit soul has to enter within these chemical elements.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These chemical elements will already help him, by nature's way. Just like you put a seed on the earth. So other things necessary for fructifying that seed, that is already there. They will come to help it. That is already there. Just like the living entity in seed form is impregnated within the womb of the mother. The mother has got within the womb all ingredients. Body will develop. On account of the presence of the living entity, by the laws of nature, everything is there. A dog is forming dog's body, man is forming man's body. Why? Because everything is there. A cat is forming cat's body in the womb of the... Yathā yonir yathā bījam. You haven't got to search out. It is already there.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they may ask, "How do I know that the living entities..."
Prabhupāda: What you know? You do not know first of all. Therefore you have to take information from the śāstra. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). This is there. The jīva is doing something, and higher authorities are giving him the result: "Now you have done this. Now you live in this way, in condition."